Oo
#protection
jade tartan
uneven mason
g8b8m8
regal island
Pretty sure with indom we have the highest hp TBH
dark wraith
you guys are delusional
grim prism
Because we can spam defensive cooldowns with ridiculous uptime @dark wraith
If you think IP is our only mitigation, that is your mistake
uneven mason
@regal island Wat
runic fjord
@dark wraith ima humor you for a minute. what tank is performing better rn?
jade tartan
Is there any tank with more dmg than us right now?
Is there any tank with better mitigation than us right now?
Honest questions
regal island
@uneven mason indom puts me above HP any other tank i've come across so far
uneven mason
Indom puts us about equal with paladins
sick sentinel
Iβd take prot over any other tank rn the aoe damage is fuckin stupid and mitigation is fine
uneven mason
BDK VDH and Bears dwarf us in raw HP
regal island
Hm guess i'm just overgeared vs the people i've been seeing
undone sun
all tanks were significantly reduced overall for BFA, no one is disputing that
and Prot warr still requires more effort and forethought to perform on par with other tanks
jade tartan
who cares about raw hp
undone sun
that's obvious
uneven mason
We dwarf them in mitigation tho
uneven mason
@jade tartan was responding to Helbrute heh
raven gorge
indom is a trash talent so who cares if it sets us at whatever other tanks hp is at
regal island
a well played prot seems to take much much much less damage due to their mit
timid jay
Thats kinda the point Helbrute, we dont have self healing but we have more mitigation
runic fjord
literally every healer i've run with has mentioned how fucking easy i am to heal in comparison to every other tank they've seen this expansion
anecdotal, sure
sick sentinel
Well played prot kills trash before their shield block uptime even runs out
junior igloo
A rage dump can't have a cooldown, that would defeat the purpose.
Having more IP is your reward for playing well and generating more rage.
(The fact that it doesn't feel very rewarding is more of a tuning issue.)
grim prism
I agree with that
uneven mason
The True reward of IP is the reduction of CDs through AM
regal island
yeah not gonna lie it's the boring choice. But i like being able to boost HP if a boss does , say a 80k whombo combo after mit. Instead of being in fetal rage i just spec indom and laugh
uneven mason
the invisible hand of Protection Warriors
runic fjord
God, imagine if never surrender was reworked into lego bracers affix
grim prism
Yeah, IP seems like it serves more as a function to drive AM than an actual mitigative spender
runic fjord
you mean
dark wraith
That was always the point, yes prot has the best mitigation but it got nerfed a lot. Warrior took atleast 50% less dmg then Blood DK in antorus, now its max 25% less. Yet Blood still maintained its healing. What we got in return is more dmg, great.
runic fjord
like it does now
uneven mason
IP performs its role as a damage smoother quite well
uneven mason
not as bad, but it'd still have nothing on Bolster or Indom even.
grim prism
So it takes less damage than DK still... like you said
dark wraith
ofc, paladin, druid
grim prism
By a substantial amount
stark sage
i only have brm to compare to, and stagger is insane
uneven mason
BrM is certainly doing well
uneven mason
Its cruise control prot warrior
runic fjord
yeh
they take less just based on stagger alone, but an optimally played prot will be better
uneven mason
We're like a mountain biker, gotta work for it, BrM is basically prot warrior, with a motor, he pedals just as hard most of the time, but when the hills come, he just clicks on the ole electric and glides up
undone sun
if you want to fall asleep while mitigating damage perfectly fine, play brew
dark wraith
Lets wait and see how many prot warriors are in high mythic + keys, probably even less then legion
kind prairie
<---as a mountain biker I can appreciate that
timid jay
m+ is gonna be BDK and DH's again
grim prism
But we'll be capping out that weekly chest for sure
dark wraith
yet everyone here says that "its fine" or even that its good, its not
undone sun
MDI style is all about utility and self sustainability (less focus from the healer)
uneven mason
Lets see how many tank variations are seen in high key M+, probably none
fathom marten
Yeah dh is pretty insane
runic fjord
Realistically Prot war synergizes really well with disc priest in M+ comps
and disc is pretty strong rn
uneven mason
Hibalt MDI level content =/= 99.99% of what the game is about.
grim prism
So you admit that it takes less damage than msot takes and does more damage than most tanks, by a substantial amount, and yet.... QED bad tank??
kind prairie
I mean I plan on trying higher keys as prot.
grim prism
There's a disconnect there
undone sun
we aren't saying prot is the god tank and will be perfect for every single situation
dark wraith
So raiding is better for prot ? Its probably even worse now
undone sun
yes
runic fjord
realistically every mythic guild clearing world firsts in uldir will be running prot/brewmaster
undone sun
(paladin)
runic fjord
yea good 3rd option
dark wraith
with huge gaps in shield block and very little hp ? good luck on progress raids
undone sun
gaps π€
strong forum
π€¦
stark sage
lol
cosmic cargo
what are you playing btw thyme?
strong forum
someone doesnt know what hes talking about
undone sun
paladin
grim prism
@dark wraith c o o l d o w n s
runic fjord
i'm 1sec off 100% shieldblock uptime
cosmic cargo
weren't you going dk at some point?
runic fjord
the fuck
junior igloo
I'd imagine world first guilds will wait for the tuning in 2 weeks π
grim prism
You use defensives to mitigate
fathom marten
I wouldn't say the average player @undone sun. It's far to complicated to play viably then the average player
old zephyr
DH and DK will always be at the top of M+ runs, but it has nothing to do with damage or healing.
It's the AoE grab
undone sun
Prot warr excels in lots of cooldowns, short CDs and effectiveness
100% sb uptime isn't desireable
grim prism
Its not like you sit in melee spamming SB and IP lkle an idiot
lethal gulch
@runic fjord how much haste do you have? '-'
grim prism
If youre doing that, it explains why you are having problems
undone sun
you work your SB charges around the times in need
runic fjord
16% base + into the fray which is almost always fully stacked
fathom marten
I was having SB down time problems as well.
runic fjord
so 31%
undone sun
please come back with more experience before you start talking shit, thank you!
runic fjord
- proc haste trinkets
fathom marten
But was fixed with gear
acoustic ocean
timid jay
31% haste is no where near enough for 100% SB uptime
junior ivy
runic fjord
with bolster?
undone sun
unlikely
junior ivy
I FOUND A BABY DINOSAUR AND I PET IT AND IT LOVES ME. anyway sorry. keep talkin about prot stuff
errant dagger
I would like to see celestial fortune on warriors π
runic fjord
i almost never drop
idk maybe i'm just blind
but there's not much in the way of gaps
junior ivy
π
timid jay
Bolster lowers it a lot for sure
dark wraith
You guys are delusional, I can guarantee you that there wont be a single prot warrior in top 10 Uldir guilds
fathom marten
I'm def having for less uptime then in legion generally speaking but I blame it on the rage cost.
timid jay
No one is talking about top 10
grim prism
@dark wraith fuck off m8 thanks
fathom marten
I'll take that bet
timid jay
Except you
junior ivy
who caresa bout top 10
kind prairie
^
grim prism
Obvious troll is obvious by now
undone sun
enough @dark wraith
dark junco
Well top 10 influence the meta, still
fathom marten
@dark wraith 1000g says there will
primal crypt
guys....wtf is wrong with prot
kind prairie
Top 10 influences scrubs
kind prairie
Who can't play what they enjoy and do flavor of the month
runic fjord
I'd bet 1 million gold that prot's in the first 10 mythic guild rosters to clear uldir.
takers?
primal crypt
HOW am I pulling 18k lol
errant dagger
Trust me I have the plan: give Warrior celestial fortune from monk π
fathom marten
Nothing is deeply wrong with prot, just superficially @primal crypt
grim prism
@runic fjord ill take that
stark sage
@primal crypt thunderclap π
primal crypt
LUL
runic fjord
we can have a pool
junior ivy
thyme π¦ be positive
grim prism
I dont need 1 million gold, thats a short sell rigjt there
runic fjord
lmao
undone sun
top 10 is pushing it
primal crypt
My fresh warrior puts my 342 DK to shame LOL
timid jay
I fully expect a balance patch to come before uldir anyway
undone sun
of course
timid jay
At least for DPS, probably smaller changes for tanks
runic fjord
i didn't say majority, i'm just certain at least one fight someone will use one
π
grim prism
Sounds like yams is D E L U S I O N A L
undone sun
strong forum
it is solid
primal crypt
My warrior is taking way less dmg in the first place than my DK was early on
cosmic cargo
but i could see it happen
timid jay
Is morana still tanking for them?
regal island
Idk i love prot spec but it pretty much might as well not have talents.
i'd prefer prot gets titangrip & IP removed
or IP adjusted to be rewarding to use.
I like the BV/AM spec but i like having some variation in a build. t90&t100 talents are basically locked.
primal crypt
Feels so steadfast
cosmic cargo
not on all bosses obviously
cosmic cargo
but like for fetid? prot is a great OT
grim prism
Yeah i liked our smorgasbord of viable talents in legion
undone sun
@lucid ginkgo might know
strong forum
worst talent that was introduced to wow hands down
undone sun
grim prism
Sucks just having "The Build"
undone sun
didn't we all though...
regal island
I mean wow has had cookie cutter builds since vanilla
timid jay
True
regal island
i still remember in wotlk my o/29/32 dk build
uneven mason
Tanks generally have a single meta that they use, this hasn't changed since the beginning of time ><
situational variations are rare
junior igloo
Exorsus played warrior on many fights because it needed the least amount of external healing.
Undergeared healers used to run out of mana or not being able to keep up with the damage.
cosmic cargo
i remember seeing a few guys with legs + HR
uneven mason
Because tank DPS matters
regal island
Wasn't that due to the ravager bug?
grim prism
#allDPSmatters
undone sun
ravager bug π€
uneven mason
My god Balsaq, protection has become the meme
timid jay
Tbh us being as reliant as we are on getting a good shield is probably enough for a few guilds to opt out of prot warriors for progress
its not worth it to gamble on getting a good shield
If you're pushing really high world rankings
uneven mason
I Know the feeling Cosmo
Like, 2 weeks now, I have 2 mthic left to clear
and no shields
nothing from heroics either
feelsbadman
kind prairie
Are pallys as reliant on a good shield?
timid jay
I fully expect guilds to play it more safe and go for a class that isnt so reliant on a single piece of gear
grim prism
Are we the only weapons-dependent tank?
timid jay
Especially now that you cant ML
fathom marten
I think the opt out descion is based on lack of skilled prot wars
undone sun
yes, protadins are reliant
regal island
Yeah no shields here either
timid jay
WIth ML, sure. But without ML its going to be a tough sell
regal island
if it comes to it i'll buy the boe on 9/4
fathom marten
Leveling my dh ....fuck there wasn't one good prot war tanj
undone sun
read the image just below the pin clutch
uneven mason
you have my ire
undone sun
ping
regal island
rocking a 330 titanforge one from the war chest drops lol
timid jay
Is morana still tanking for exorsus?
lucid ginkgo
What the hell is a Morana
timid jay
Was the question Clutch
undone sun
lol
acoustic ocean
For the average player prot is fine, maybe a bit clunky due to gcd changes. I canβt see it competing for world firsts or top m+but for most it will do just fine
lucid ginkgo
Oh I have no clue whatsoever, never knew a Morana
undone sun
shame
regal island
nah intervene alone makes prot top tier imp
kind prairie
Probably won't be soloing +17s. Looking at you DH
lucid ginkgo
I could ask ALveona directly
but then I'd have to explain why randomly I'm asking him that
timid jay
Doesnt really matter, doubt they are going to tell us what they are going to run
undone sun
yeah, and tbh doubt they'd say their tank strats
runic fjord
oh def not
cosmic cargo
i would say protadin is nowhere near as reliant on shield as warr
lucid ginkgo
They won't say the class, but player wise would be safe, I imagine
cosmic cargo
block is such a tiny portion of their mitigation in comparison to warrior
dark junco
so we need a good weapon, thats what I get from the conversation ?
runic fjord
shield
timid jay
A good shield
undone sun
shield
cosmic cargo
doesn't IP scale with weapon dps also?
dark junco
been ootl a bit on what we'd need, focusiong on getting ilvl atm
grim prism
fathom marten
We literally just said shield
uneven mason
Shield, although IP does scale with weapon DPS
prisma crane
i saw some clickbait response Sco gave in Frag's twitch that they are considering streaming progress π€ could be interesting
uneven mason
but IP is no where close to the majority of our mitigation
runic fjord
IP scales with DPS but block is much more significant for mitigation
kind prairie
"is a shield a weapon?"
Warrior: thwak "yes"
undone sun
scales with AP which is strength
lucid ginkgo
You sure it's actually scaling from the weapon DPS, and not the raw strength boosting AP?
runic fjord
as most damage is physical
cosmic cargo
AP scales with weapon dps though @undone sun
fathom marten
No one refers to there shield as a weapon...not saying you can't use it as one
prisma crane
if that's true, fuck me, 300 weapon bois
cosmic cargo
but it could be excluded for the specific ability, i know for pala LoTP has weapondps specifically excluded
lucid ginkgo
Oh boy
regal island
eh the no shield enchant still kinda buggs me
feels weird after playing around on my dk
runic fjord
tbh i kinda want blacksmith to make shield spikes again
runic fjord
that'd be fun
uneven mason
(strength + weapondDPS * 6) * apCoef * masteryMultiplier * vers * other
jade tartan
Blacksmith is still a mistery to me..
uneven mason
So it translates WDPS into its AP value
jade tartan
I mean, sure, those craftable BoPs will help but
where's the hammer?
where's the Chassis for the mount ?
runic fjord
oh yeah u rite i completely forgot about that shit
regal island
I mean even some armor plating would be ncie
runic fjord
i've maxed it and everything and haven't seen em
regal island
yeah i picke dup the mount pattern yesterday
jade tartan
uh?
regal island
cant make it due to mat unknown
jade tartan
arent you engineering tho?
wanton blaze
is the Darkmoon trinket decent for prots after the recent hotfix?
regal island
yeah eng, the new eng mount
regal island
@wanton blaze not great but nothing is
stark sage
@wanton blaze defensively its probably the best preraid trinket. but a good 340+ stat trinket can be close and better for dps
wanton blaze
thank you
jade tartan
that mount was supposed to be crafted by:
One item crafted by Blacksmiths
the other by Engineers
runic fjord
I've been using incessantly ticking clock @stark sage
jade tartan
both mixed and you'd get the mount
regal island
blacksmith makes the chasis and eng makes the engline and has the combine them both pattern
runic fjord
seems really strong
regal island
yeah 335 ticking here too
runic fjord
lol same
jade tartan
@regal island are you confirming it?
regal island
i picked up that mastery one with 1000str on a 1.5min cd
runic fjord
i'd like to run that and rezan's eye
smoky wave
Where's the bs part from? Wife has eng, I've got vs. Perfect combo.
jade tartan
I mean, where can you learn to make the chassis, p.e.?
regal island
yes i have the patern phabyum
jade tartan
you have the pattern for the Engine ?
regal island
oh idk about the chassis, but i have the engineering one and the main pattern you need from mythic motherlode
regal island
Schematic: Mecha-Mogul Mk2 ?
jade tartan
Yes, thats a totally different mount
thats the one that looks similar to Mimiron
This one is the one I'm talking about, that was crafted in beta by mixing those 2 items
engine (Engineering) + chassis (Blacksmith)
regal island
Oh got ya, idk havent seen that one.
jade tartan
And then we have this hammer
suddenly disapeared aswell..
so yea, now Blacksmith has 0 patterns from Reps and 0 drops so far
all we can do is Hoofs to ride faster <.<
jade tartan
yea..
at least that Chassis part would give us money.
what am I supposed to do/sell besides crafting my 355 BOP pieces?
regal island
weapons have been selling like hotcakes
jade tartan
are ppl buying the 300 weapons ?
regal island
even the ilvl 300/310 stuff sells like 20k a pop
jade tartan
seriously?
uneven mason
yeah tons of folks
smoky wave
Phab, weapons and armor are still. Solid profit. Not as much as the first three days.
regal island
you can make them for like 2k and toss em up for 10k and they are gone in 15 min
jade tartan
this week I'll get those 15 hydrocores
smoky wave
Last expansion its all transmog stuff that sells. I've pretty much made my sub from a token every month just using bs
regal island
already picked up a 340 helm so engineering is basically useless for me now
old zephyr
I like the azerite traits on the Google
severe steeple
i've hear that if you scrap somethign that you crafted with hydrocores you get hydrocores back
regal island
not sure, professions are feeling kinda useless to me again
runic fjord
haven't tried that yet
regal island
Might just snag alch again for the rage pots
regal island
yeah rage potions
regal island
80 rage on wod one
don't even need to farm
garrison trade supplier feels mats for like 1 order resource
uneven mason
yeah...
uneven mason
so, you'd use a rage potion?
runic fjord
30-90
signal plover
Why would u use a potion CD on a rage pot
regal island
because it has strength and armor and rage?
regal island
yeah but i prefer starting pulls with IP
uneven mason
or the 900 armor
regal island
and more rage works into AM prety well
signal plover
I can't even
regal island
and they are free
little star
that IP will get consumed in 1 - 2 boss melee hits
uneven mason
1125stamina potion too
little star
the armor is there for 25seconds
signal plover
900 strength for 25 secs or 48 strength for 20 secs and a tiny amount of rage
runic fjord
π€
uneven mason
I'ma be burning my potion CDs on lightfoot pots
regal island
You guys do realize rage potions aren't on the 1 per fight potion cd right?
regal island
nah lol i eat them like candy
uneven mason
β π
regal island
just use the /use command and it skipps the whole 1 min cd on the wod rage pot
solid mist
how is leveling 110-12- as prot? painful?
uneven mason
felt fine
signal plover
It's slower after 116
uneven mason
pull entire quests worth of mobs in one shot
young oasis
I think they are going to nerf our AoE DPS. Im owning many shitty dpsers in mythic runs, all are 335+. Blizzard doesnt like that shit :(
uneven mason
single target feels slow, but you get some Avatar Thunderclap going on and its satisfying
Nah Boki, they'd have ot give us utility then π
our DPS is our Utility
grim prism
Im kind of paranoid about a minor downtune in aoe as well, but i got shot down for wondering aloud about it lol
young oasis
I hope so
regal island
Yeah ST vs AOE is weird this xpac. large pulls die just as fast as small pulls do
signal plover
I don't think blizz will balance around week 2 m0 balance
grim prism
I mean they are actively pretuning for when the tier opens
Changes to feral coming in
old zephyr
We did crazy Damage in legion as well
regal island
Thats becase feral was a 24+ sec melee dot class where things are dying in 20 sec
grim prism
Just an example of them tuning based off current gameplay, not an equivalence
runic fjord
they'll be tuning all the way up through the first week
regal island
Thats because if they tune prot too well, the really good prot warriors start making fights look trivial and other tanks QQ
runic fjord
that's pretty standard
grim prism
^
strong forum
"oh no good tanks are good"
regal island
But i mean they let veng solo m+? soooo
regal island
think that was more of a "look at the new class" type balancing
grim prism
Moderate is generous lol
uneven mason
They let paladins solo raid bosses Helbrute...if we're going to talk about extremes.
uneven mason
wat
regal island
so with prot dps being as good as it is.... guys we should 4 prot mythics with a pally.
grim prism
regal island
and go til everyone has a 340 shield
old zephyr
ST Damage is sad though
strong forum
thats not how this works
grim prism
Yeah until we add up to 20k damage total on a ST boss fight and die to enrage
uneven mason
I cleared Freehold heroic using 4prot warriors and a undergeared resto druid (manual zone in) took about 15minutes
uneven mason
Yeah they do
(Only 1 of the warriors was main specp rot)
BUt yeah boss fights take forever with prots DPS
regal island
just gotta drums
uneven mason
Otherwise running M+ as 4 Prots + healer
would be completely viable
cause our Trash clearing DPS is just so silly
warm briar
Anyone uses Pawn for protection?
regal island
i've been seeing them hold down 20k+ on m0 bosses ezpz
uneven mason
You can't use pawn for protection
strong forum
ye aff ST is giga sexy
regal island
Yeah i gotta stop being lazy and lvl mine to 120
strong forum
gl farming that rep again
strong forum
LUL demo
regal island
nah aff = ST
strong forum
demo is meme spec again
regal island
aff aoe is meh, trash is meh
jade tartan
well, at pre patch people were saying that
regal island
but ST they light it up
jade tartan
ST = Demo
2T = Destro
3T+ = Aff
strong forum
aff is good in M+, thats where they come in with aoe dps
jade tartan
but guess stuff changed
regal island
yeah aff is basically top ST damage with arcane now.
jade tartan
nice nice
regal island
then it's like sub & ret
final mist
Prepatch is never definitive of how the expansion goes.
Look at how bad Arms was in prepatch and how retarded it is now.
regal island
i'm talking the 385 sims
jade tartan
true
uneven mason
Fury in Cataclysm prepatch - Fury during all of Cataclysm
regal island
arms is #5 ST after the mastery change/dps nerf.
fathom marten
Lol that fury in cata one brought back some memories
regal island
Anyone else think it's weird warmode doesn't work on the island expiditions?
plain ice
yes.. lol
prisma crane
@final mist hell will freeze over before the average player understands that
strong forum
thats what the pvp more is for..
plain ice
i guess it's technically "instanced pve"
strong forum
its just like instances
plain ice
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
strong forum
warmode only works for overworld and islands is clearly not overworld
regal island
but i'm literally fighting alliance in a pvp based pve enviroment
just like open world
seems soo weird to me
uneven mason
You're queued for PVP islands?
little star
warmode is for the outdoors
uneven mason
I mean I havn't done the PVP ones
little star
not instanced area
its to incentivise world pvp
its the same reason it doesnt work in pvp arena/ bgs
uneven mason
Reasons to not include Warmode abilities in actual PVP situations - Cause we don't wanna balance them
little star
warmode is just the 10% gain to rewards not the pvp talents
sick sentinel
they dont work in islands.
graceful mason
At the comments about sim-dps rankings.. you have to remember the bounds of what items you can put on. This wasn't a huge issue before but with azerite traits if your raid drops don't have proper ST DPS traits your class is going to look much worse
Where in reality you'll use the proper ones from M+
uneven mason
gives folks incentive to hit that +10 every week
whats going to hurt
is after getting your BiS Azerite traits from the +10
getting azerite gear in the box every week is going to be rage inducing
little star
well you can get up to 3 items so probably 1 is azerite chance
uneven mason
its full on RNG
little star
no more rng than legion legendarys were at the start
uneven mason
Don't remind me
dark junco
And capped at 4
Lol
« Oh sorry, we didnβt notice legendaries were capped at 4Β Β»
dark junco
Yeah I remeber peeps rerolling toons to get better legendaries while prepping for race
dark junco
but couldnβt dps for shit =p
uneven mason
I did alright
Finally got all setup with Legs Helm etc in ABT was ready to wreck some Rets...then our Bur got into a car accident and they were like "Go prot"
(I preferred tanking anyway)
stark wraith
yall ready for M+ shadow of Zul to murder us π
ember arrow
BL
U can displace him for some cc
Aswell
My bdk can grip. And my beastmaster pet (control undead) knocks him back too. I imagine others work too
long light
is blockades worth the money?
uneven mason
depends how much it is
long light
25k
uneven mason
yeah
ember arrow
Yea
ember arrow
Its the best def trinket atm
Thats like saying its the shiniest turd
But the strength alone makes it worthwile
covert fable
guys deafening crash doesn't stack, right?
I mean, if I have 2 pieces with deafining crash I am losing on 1 trait
strong forum
dmg stacks
kind prairie
Not the duration increase tho. But still. ALL THE DAMAGE
covert fable
So if you had a 340 with deafning crash helm, shoulders ar 325 with deafining crash and 340 shoulders with iron fortitude, would you go with the 340s?
regal island
so apparently on the shadow of zul you just stand in the purple puddles and she doesn't aoe blast anymore
just found out last night, was super ez
only need 1 deaf crash @covert fable
junior ivy
there are SOOO many baby dinosaurs to pet
strong forum
340s > everything
no trait is worth sacrificing the ilvl for unless you had 0 deafening crash
regal island
sadly i have 0
covert fable
okey, thanks
strong forum
then equip 1 325 deafening
covert fable
I have a 340 with it
regal island
i keep getting the revenge trait on my gear...
regal island
nah not that big a deal, i have no issues not having it anyways
regal island
i have like 3 mythics left to clear, i might get lucky or just snag a titanforge from a emi or wq
regal island
it's max 355 atm
strong forum
well azerite gear cant titanforge
sick sentinel
zzzzz
strong forum
or forge in any way
ember arrow
@junior ivy u collect pets too
sick sentinel
Want a wf/Tf Almanac and Fathoms
strong forum
its always 355 bethrezen
sick sentinel
Blow shit up more tanking.
regal island
apparently the DR from that EN trinket rounds up to the nearest 1%, think i'll have to test that later
stacking that with rev traits is like a decent 7%
fading ridge
How's Landoi's Scrutiniy?
prisma crane
i'll give you this Helbrute, you're a fan of the unconventional
mystic ferry
Can anyone recommend any good prot streamers? I almost never see any
prisma crane
yea Sense is your best bet
primal crypt
@mystic ferry there are hardly any that truly stream
signal plover
Are u using it on servants?
crude hound
no im using it on a giant snake and it procced twice in 3 mins
merry cave
I really wish they'd add 2h as prots niche or 1h fury back +_+ such a pain farming weps
signal plover
I'd rather farm weapons than legendaries any day
merry cave
Lol not wrong there a
normal tundra
Good afternoon, people should change the blues and lose the bonus for the upper ilvl?
stark sage
that's hard to say, i dont know but that bonus seems pretty good if it procced often enough
naive badge
So is it just me or are prot warriors complete garbage for (world) pvp. You do no damage, you have no heal, you have no slows... just complete garbage. Can't think of any class you could kill except another warrior...
weary python
Is it ever possible to Sim a tank in any way? Or is that not a thing?
uneven mason
Its not really a thing
I mean, you can sim for DPS
if you REALLY wanted too
but simC is not updated for prot
because its not on anyones radar at the moment, since it doesn't matter for the spec.
weary python
So just go with stat priority and be done w/ it?
muted wyvern
No prot is trashhhhhh open world pvp. Im 2300 arms warrior and cant even kill a plen π
uneven mason
More or less, just prioritize iLvl for armor pieces and weapon, then haste > vers>=mast > crit for rings, trinkets are kind've case by case, but str is always going to be pretty solid if you get a lot of it
I don't really know if givng up ilvl on the rings would eve be worthwhile
but I'd say outside of crit being somewhat weak for us, haste vers and mastery are all pretty heavy for augmenting our durability.
muted wyvern
Pleb as prot*
signal plover
The best thing about prot in wpvp is that it only takes like 10 seconds to switch to arms
covert cairn
gone are the days of yore
normal tundra
so i managed to test it out, 3% increase in dodge, but the proc rate is one twice every minute only.
wild atlas
Oh cmon guys. We have shockwave and intimidating shout. Which buys us just enough time to glider off a cliff or die a bloody death.
uneven mason
Prot is really good at running interference
But then again - Warrior - PVPing alone?
We've been relying on pocket healers since vanilla
hasn't really ever changed
uneven mason
It was OP because our absorb double dipped
wild atlas
Back in my day, we had 2 pc tier 21 and we were fearsome Warriors.
uneven mason
Bracers + Prydaz + 2/4p
yeah unkillable
You ever see a Legion Disc priest and a Legion Prot warrior fight to the death?
Yeah me either, but we sure did try for 20 minutes.
dark junco
Is 340 shield enough for heroic uldir or i need to bite the bullet and buy a 355?
wild atlas
Youβll be fine
uneven mason
We'll let you know when Heroic Uldir comes out, but chances are you'll be dandy
dark junco
Kk
uneven mason
Looking forward to running normal and heroic on week one ><
Thankfully we're stacking shield users in one raid
dark junco
So I guess ilvl > secondaries on a shield, cause of the block value
vagrant cape
@mystic ferry LobosJr is mostly known for his dark souls challenge runs, but he's been playing wow since vanilla and is currently playing prot warrior this expansion.
uneven mason
outside of a few trinkeets
uneven mason
We don't have many either, but the holy paladin resto shaman are with us and my co tank is a paladin.
plush glade
What are bis trinkets ?
dark junco
Both dmc? What about the bee one?
uneven mason
I guess
dark junco
And 2nd dmc > haste ones?
uneven mason
The moral is, nearly all trinkets are pretty "meh" for tanking
dark junco
Using big red button atm lol, since its 340 with leech
uneven mason
is probably the best survivabiliyt tool
dark junco
Yeah trying to get it, no luck atm
bright crane
It's a very fun trink, not to rub it in
dark junco
And big red button is kinda nice tbh
bright crane
huge dmg
wild atlas
@bright crane which one?
bright crane
340 Big red button
plush glade
I have big red button but I don't k ow it's worth taking off fathomed or blockade for :s
slender kiln
How's prot doing in bgs atm? Looking at maybe maining it over arms soon
plush glade
It feels pretty clunky tbh
signal plover
Maining it over arms in bgs?
slender kiln
@signal plover holding objectives mainly. Flag carrying and what not
uneven mason
Although, you can give healers something todo if you manage to catch some folks inside of Avatar + TC spam
Prot is better at protecting the FC than being the FC
slender kiln
Nah? How comes?
uneven mason
we're really good vs melee damage
uneven mason
Sadly, next to no class does raw melee damage
slender kiln
Hmm. Don't really wanna re roll. I love the warrior archetype
slender kiln
Hmmm. No worries then. Just means I gotta double gear then. Was gonna start tanking in pve as well.
signal plover
Not too bad to gear two specs atm
uneven mason
only thing you gott a doulbe up on is azerite gear
slender kiln
4 different iteams to get gear got I guess. Then need certain traits on the gear.
I'll gear up my prot first for pve I think. Quicker to get in mythics and raids as a tank I assume.
timber pagoda
Does Azerite veins stack?
undone sun
the healing stacks
steep dock
I'm at 305 exactly, am I ok to start pugging heroics or should I over gear a little?
steep dock
oh i'm definitely too scared for mythics right now :-p
I haven't tanked in about 3 expansions. I'm not super confident in my cooldown timings and rage generation stuff quite yet. I'm still getting a feel for it.
wide juniper
18.7% haste, getting there
lime tundra
are the built in weights of pawn accurate for prot?
lime tundra
so just go with itemlevel?
slate rivet
hey guys, I have a little question, altough I am pretty new to the warrior, I enjoy tanking a lot with other classes. I was hitting 306 just some hours ago and was very excited for heroics but as soon as I went in there I had many problems such as aggro loss and general squishiness (I just died a decent amount of times). After two I decided to look up the guide on icey veins because my performance was very poor and there had to be a reason behind all of that afterall. I didn't find anything that would've explained my problems. For better understanding, I used both talent builds from icey veins but neither worked out for me. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for me how to fix my problem?
ou and the aggro loss was caused by too low dps
slate rivet
yup
wide juniper
Rev when proc or on large groups?
uneven mason
You using a weapon/shield that is appropriate ilvl?
uneven mason
What do you mean, both talent builds?
slate rivet
well rev ye, but my shield is not the best π€
wide juniper
Upgraded the shield and it helped a tremendous amount.
slate rivet
the good build and the build that is more noob friendly
wide juniper
Keeping mobs in FRONT of you?
sick sentinel
what are you dying to, bosses or trash packs?
slate rivet
trash
uneven mason
starting with single packs?
signal plover
Are u overpulling?
slate rivet
(shield il 285)
sick sentinel
physical damage or magical damage? or doesn't matter?
wide juniper
that should be fine for the start of heroics
past ledge
question, is the healer healing you ?
slate rivet
damage didn't matter because it was both phys and magic that hurted i guess equally
brave jetty
It's getting really tough to want to invest in Prot right now
wide juniper
Why's that?
brave jetty
We're viable but the spec is a hot fucking mess at the moment across the board
I'm extremely disappointed
wide juniper
I'd disagree with a hot mess.
sick sentinel
trash packs do tend to be more dangerous than bosses in dungeons
brave jetty
Mostly the gameplay changes have just killed the feel of the class for me
brave jetty
Yeah
slate rivet
well it is arguable that ignore pain is a bit high on rage cost
wide juniper
No auto threat?
brave jetty
The GCD pretty much singlehandedly spoiled the gameplay for me
brave jetty
I had 0 issues with the class during all of Legion no matter where they were at in relative power level because the gameplay always felt good
GCD is absolutely not fine lol
uneven mason
for discussion on GCD changes please scroll up to about 5 hours ago
we beat every part of that dead horse
just to work the kinks out
wide juniper
I can tank just as well now as I could in legion.
brave jetty
I'm just venting, I find it a pretty frustrating situation
Again, nothing to do with viability
I'm not saying we're not viable right now
sick sentinel
surely GCD "is fine" and "is not fine" are a matter of opinion, not objective truth...
wide juniper
So, hot mess?
uneven mason
I found it really nice once I played it for more than a few hours
dark junco
But weβre not top10 progression
sick sentinel
The argument sounds like my opinion is more important than yours
uneven mason
"Not top 10 world tanks - class is garbage"
dark junco
So Iβd doubt weβll see representation in the race
spare estuary
Warrior for lyfe bois dont give up on prot
uneven mason
I actually wouldn't be horribly shocked
wide juniper
And this is my sign to leave chat alone for a while again as we spin down this hole.
Each and every day.
signal plover
Isn't one of the Russian MTs a prot warr and has been since like EN?
uneven mason
to see some of the world top 100s running Prot and BrM
fervent monolith
I found that some of the trash packs are really challenging. I quite like it, the bosses are mechanical. the trash in Kings Rest is bonkers and that is probably the only place I have found hard. To be fair, I am finding prot to be a lot more in control than before. @slate rivet start with easy dungeons and work your way up. Gear is the master at the moment in my opinion.
uneven mason
Gearing is very important.
simple kiln
I was salty about Ignore pain cost ect... but I actually kind of enjoy trying to figure out when to filter it in ect. I do wish shield block was a little more consistant (planning for raids, that gap could make progression difficult).
uneven mason
IP is great because its that cost
royal marten
Bigger numbers = bigger fun
uneven mason
if IP was cheaper it would make it weaker
brave jetty
I think the lack of variety in the talent spec right now is one thing that's bad. The state of our self healing is frustrating. The GCD stuff is extremely disappointing to me. That's mostly what I'm talking about when I say hot mess.
uneven mason
because you'd be spending more GCDs on it
brave jetty
I actually like the IP / SB changes aside from the GCD part.
uneven mason
to push AM
sick sentinel
smh always a new noob prot crying about the warr class
brave jetty
lol wut
tardy jolt
its not crying to say "our talents lack variety", it's a fact
uneven mason
BatShark - no tank can self sustain, prot is actually better off than most of the others tanks after the sustain nerf, because our self sustain was a gimmic brought on by bracers and rage flooding from tier sets, not a base part of our class
sick sentinel
Which is fine to want variety.
sick sentinel
But there is nothing wrong with the class.
tardy jolt
im not arguing that
tardy jolt
the killing blow part makes it unreliable tho
uneven mason
TFW you get more KBs than any of the DPS
tardy jolt
lesser healing but procs on non-killing blow kills would make it more reliable
true i guess, clap ftw
uneven mason
if they made it work like Warmachine - it would be oP
brave jetty
The killing blow stuff is the frustrating part of it. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it's extremely unreliable, inconsistent, etc.
tardy jolt
ye they would have to reduce the healing in that case
cloud bone
I get it to proc a decent amount on trash because of deep wounds stealing the kill or just thunderclap doing damage
brave jetty
Definitely reduce the healing on it but make it less situational.
uneven mason
But we're not designed around having a self sustain
or a heal at all really
VR is just to maintain flow
not really supposed to support us during dungeons
cloud bone
they could make IV baseline and keep the killing blow thing the same
uneven mason
But I mean, I'll sacrifice self healing if it means I take 20 - 30 % less damage on average than other tanks
spare estuary
Prot warrior is an oldskool tank which relies on a healer and i like it!
cloud bone
Ikarikaze is that what we're like right now?
brave jetty
Also, I never expected Prot to sustain itself, don't straw man me with that. But our self heal is garbage design and few other tank classes have their self healing with such limited conditions.
uneven mason
but we also have IP for that
cloud bone
I've seen brewmasters do more but maybe that's cus stagger is op?
uneven mason
stagger is indeed OP
Staggers primary benefit is you can wipe out a huge chunk of a tank buster (we do this as well)
brave jetty
I like our tools and I'm happy with the magic mitigation changes since Legion, not saying every class should be equally good at every aspect of tanking.
fervent monolith
had a number of times peeps have ninja pulled on trash, healers died and ive self healed using last stand and imp vic. Survived quite a few times. Magic is the killer but thats not about the tank, its about interupts, dps and healing playing the part too.
brave jetty
But there are some pretty serious flaws with the spec and gameplay right now as far as I'm concerned.
uneven mason
Like was said earlier - Brewmaster is basically Protection warrior on cruise control
they have our mitigation but with half the attention span
cloud bone
it's also more reactive i'd say
uneven mason
Protection is the least reactive thing in the universe
wide juniper
It's 100% more reactive with p brew
simple kiln
They will nerf Brewmaster hard though imo. It's always bad to be the top performer because you will get shit on. Middle of the pack means you will stay consistant through xpac π
brave jetty
Not like I want to complain about the class. I was a pretty happy camper for basically all of Legion and it's been my hard main for like a decade now.
uneven mason
I don't htink they'll nerf Brewmaster
brave jetty
Ravager still exists lol
jovial reef
IP on gcd is just terrible, it feels like you never press anything except for shield slam, free revenge, thunderclap and ignore pain. It's like devastate doesn't exist
cloud bone
yeah there's only 1 talent row where you have a choice or talents and even then it's a boring choice
simple kiln
I wish they had a thorns style talant to go with the azerite thorns. So you could literally go thorns build for M+
brave jetty
Devastator needs to become baseline and yeah our talent variety is really bad right now.
jovial reef
^
wide juniper
This is always a good time to read daily.
uneven mason
Man
signal plover
Yawn
uneven mason
Its like
signal plover
I'm glad ikari has the patience
uneven mason
We hire shifts
simple kiln
Sorry if thorns has already been talked about
wide juniper
Just start telling people to scroll up.
uneven mason
to come in and complain about IP on the GCD
to give me something todo while waiting for builds to finish
signal plover
"maybe blizz is watching right now"
uneven mason
SO anyway we scared off the kid with the actual questions
brave jetty
Maybe that's a sign that it's really frustrating to a lot of players and perhaps "IP on the GCD is fine" just isn't an adequate response.
uneven mason
I stopped playing prot on live prior to prepatch
brave jetty
I mean obv there's not much benefit to harping on it in here and I'm sure y'all are beyond tired of hearing about it.
uneven mason
only played prot on beta
wide juniper
Why isn't it fine? You just want gameplay to be faster or?
brave jetty
But IMO it needs to be a drum everyone is beating until they change it.
uneven mason
Cast Devastate more?
cloud bone
I guess
wide juniper
I won't be beating that drum. I'm cool with changes.
uneven mason
Spam it more? with the rage you DON'T have?
cloud bone
maybe people are just so used to how it was playing for all of legion and spamming IP off the gcd
wide juniper
I just don't care enough about IP being on GCD. Plan better.
autumn laurel
I like having to choose between shield block/IP
uneven mason
I think that is most of it Pixel
brave jetty
It almost singlehandedly clunks up the gameplay, it's just far less dynamic
uneven mason
Shield Block is not on the GCD
wide juniper
SB isn't on GCD
wide juniper
You can cast SB/IP immediately together
uneven mason
I think what people want
is for IP to do something "visible"
it doesn't feel good to press the button, and all it does is have a smoothing effect on damage
tardy jolt
i mean taking ip off gcd right now would be a pure buff to us, a buff we dont really need tbh
uneven mason
a GCD should do "something" and IP just doesn't really have any pizzaz
signal plover
I don't think anyone likes the IP GCD change it's just that we are now in staggered states of apathy about it because we've been talking about it daily for like 5ish months
uneven mason
^^
autumn laurel
I want the animation for IP to be my character whipping himself to show how tough and pain immune he is
cloud bone
lol
fervent monolith
HAHA
signal plover
Prolly more
tardy jolt
ye i think that's the issue, it doesn't have the "oomph" a warrior skill should have
cloud bone
just fucking hurt yourself
simple kiln
That would be cool haha, give a Starcraft Stimpack animation
cloud bone
no mob is going to want to touch a masochist
autumn laurel
I want IP to also have the emote of "TORTURE ME"
signal plover
I remember when we had no IP lol
cloud bone
IP was introduced in legion right?
signal plover
For like months and there was panic
tardy jolt
y pixel
cloud bone
never played prot before legion
tardy jolt
we had shield barrier before ip
uneven mason
Uh, yeah kinda Paw
signal plover
No in alpha/beta when they were reworking it
uneven mason
we had Shield Barrier in WOD and MoP iirc
tardy jolt
ye
signal plover
Ya
uneven mason
But yeah they removed IP for a while
and gave us bolster that cost rage
and was on the GCD
simple kiln
Is the iceyveins Prot guide solid?
uneven mason
and all it did was about a 13% DR buff
cloud bone
and was basically iron fur but not
uneven mason
yeah Grimmy
simple kiln
Ty
signal plover
I just meant in recent history. I don't go back to wod cuz ppl start bringing up glad stance and I shoot myself in the face
uneven mason
It was a shitty ironfur
sick sentinel
uneven mason
that didn't rollover
tardy jolt
good old bleeding thunder clap days ehh
uneven mason
ok back to the legit questions
cloud bone
I liked the early alpha/beta IP that took from your rage pool to reduce damage but I understand why that was op
uneven mason
@slate rivet So, whats your opening rotation like on a trash pull?
scared the newbie off ya'll
uneven mason
He's like "I need help" and suddenly its like π‘ π’ IP ON GCD
tardy jolt
maybe he was going to become such a prot warr addict that he would still be tanking 5 expansions later and helping people here
but we destroyed his career
wide juniper
It would help the class to get more people in.
spare estuary
Ngl im loving prot atm
uneven mason
It would help the class to get them all to read the IV guide π
tardy jolt
that would never be possible π
simple kiln
I mean, I had read the IV guide, but I know historically some class/spec's guides have been lower quality
spare estuary
As warriors we are alphas and alphas dont read!!
simple kiln
Hence my question-
tardy jolt
guides here are pretty solid
brave jetty
It's a fair question. Some IV stuff is total shit for some classes and specs.
cloud bone
Marok is A+ guide maker
tardy jolt
y true
simple kiln
I recently swapped to Prot, I was a MM hunter raid leading but sick of losing tanks. And the MM IV guide was written by one of the best hunters. Just didn't know
tardy jolt
loooong time ago when i first saw IV, i had looooooots of doubts because all guides use same format and same wording, looked like randomly put together
strong forum
met a random prot warri running Punish over ITF and i cant convince him that in 99/100 cases ITF is better than Punish, its infuriating
tardy jolt
tho the quality increased a lot over time
uneven mason
This time around they're actually pulling folks who play the specs
and do the numbers
cloud bone
I mean atleast hes not running IV
uneven mason
π
Well Nomeratur punish vs ITF
isn't that big of a deal
running into the warrior who runs Indom and Devastator π‘
I mena Punish has SOME application
its not like you're cutting your nuts off using it
strong forum
well he was running indom and dragon roar aswell which caught my attention but he quickly said that he knows about those two
and refused to accept ITF into his life
strong forum
accept the ITF into your life and it will be filled with bliss
tardy jolt
indeed
uneven mason
You'll be filled with faster GCDs
tardy jolt
more thunder claps
uneven mason
Mostly SB uptime
left canopy
Does prot generate less rage now? I feel like I cant really get any Ignore pains now
prisma crane
almost anything is less rage than T21 prot
little star
well t21 generated too much rage so now the pendulum has swung back
prisma crane
we're fine on rage
sharp pelican
Hello chaps! Can anyone direct me to a comprehensive resource around how we should level our Azerite traits?
prisma crane
and you're not meant to spam IP like you used to
runic fjord
I really think the "low rage gen" shit is entirely overblown
little star
prisma crane
@sharp pelican all in the pins my man
sharp pelican
Sorry, where are the pins?
prisma crane
top right
fathom marten
I starting thinking hard about what i would really want to change about prot. Honestly, I just don't like how long the fCD for SB is. 18 seconds... meh. Maybe I'll change my mind when my haste is higher
runic fjord
top right of discord
prisma crane
looks like a pushpin
sharp pelican
Ah brilliant
prisma crane
π
sharp pelican
MY apologies, thanks for help
runic fjord
np
prisma crane
np