I'm 340, and that trash still destroyed me.
#protection
raven kernel
I'm referring to the earlier question
latent tide
oh, sorry
raven kernel
The 2 zerkers weren't memorable
Just have your party single target one down
If you're having issues
latent tide
Yeah, we did. It still got to 4 stacks somehow.
raven kernel
My group is already geared so everything dies quick
pseudo rock
rolling DK
latent tide
My group was fairly gear, everyone 339+
pseudo rock
see ya
raven kernel
If you have a pally just bop off the bleed
sick sentinel
You need immune mechanics or with 4+ stack you surely will die
raven kernel
are u dying before killing them or what
latent tide
No, I died after they were dead
raven kernel
Or just dying after
sick sentinel
After is totally ok
raven kernel
That's whatever then, just take a rez
latent tide
Okay
raven kernel
I just remind my healer to keep healing me
I don't think I go to 4 stack tho so he can manage it
If 4 stack isn't healable then just die :/
sick sentinel
And for the big pulls, if your healer can keep you alive, use avatar and spam thunder clap > revenge maintaining shield block up, i'm 336 and with 3+ adds I pull 15~16k dps
latent tide
Yeah, our healer was the only person undergeared. And he's a resto druid so it makes it difficult.
Yeah, big pulls are a joke. With Avatar + Demo I pull ~20k dps
Next time, I think I'll try staggering the bleed with a well timed stun
if the dps arent killing them fast enough
They seem do cast the bleed after a jump, usually
pallid pelican
I learnt not to soak the patch on zul's shadow ad
I got fingered
sick sentinel
On the pull before the gold boss in Atal'dazar I usually pull 30k+, it's a matter of don't diyng in the process, if you can spam revenge without making it hard for the healer, please do, war prot does a huge amount of aoe if you focus on that
latent tide
Yeah, that pull is always fun. TC > Revenge > TC repeat is a lot of fun
sick sentinel
That Zul shadow is a complete terror for prot, all hes attacks are magic
latent tide
Ditto
Spell Reflection is pretty much all we have, and since it doesn't reflect the spell we only have that 20% damage reduction
latent tide
Yeah.
raven kernel
Your dps is more in danger of dying than you are
latent tide
IP helps for sure
raven kernel
It's more of a dps check than anything
latent tide
seems that way
raven kernel
If you die on that guy means your party is already wiped at that point
Or your healer ignored you
If anything the higher dps of prot war makes us better on him than other tanks
winged elm
winged maple
@raven kernel thank you! We popped lust and burst it down with me dead. I used up every rage on ignore pain. Thankfully i got t down
raven kernel
Cheers
split anchor
any tips for dealing with the shadow of zul mob in king's rest? last time I popped all my cd's and still died easily
split anchor
oh thanks!
urban oak
What would you guys guess is better for prot warr? https://i.imgur.com/KPFRz0N.png
raven kernel
The 340
urban oak
I dont have the azeroth level for any of the traits tho
urban oak
Ah, alright, cheers
junior ivy
what about for fury?
split anchor
giant piece of shit
amber siren
brb got a pretty big buff iirc
junior ivy
is haste still the preferred stat for fury?
junior ivy
thanks
round vortex
@junior ivy the big red button is really good if you play with super burst classes such as arms warrior, demon hunter or Ele shaman as another means of generating AOE threat on the pull.
raven kernel
@split anchor did u kill the guy
split anchor
nah I did but was just asking for future references
raven kernel
@round vortex bruh avatar tc
split anchor
like hours of ago
raven kernel
Ah ok
split anchor
ended up like spawn killing him
junior ivy
so ishouldnt use it for tanking 100% right ?
junior ivy
ok ty
sick sentinel
Razdunk's Big Red Button is pvp trinket.
use for additional burst on 1-2 targets. Especially as arms.
It also scales with your AP I can confirm.
rustic flower
do multiple sets of deafening crash stack?
shut summit
damage does, DS extending doesnt
rustic flower
thanks. wish that was easier to figure out in game
round vortex
I’m not saying use it all the time lol I was just stating what it’s tanking purpose would be if it had one.
Some tanks are struggling to keep threat (not me personally) but it’s definitely a more useful tool for AOE threat than a haste proc for that specific purpose.
sick sentinel
analog escarp
i wish abilities crit generate double rage.....
upbeat folio
I would be content just to have global cooldown be less shit.
analog escarp
is it more or protection warrior has less hp then other tanks?
hot locust
Yes we are the lowest pure HP tank class.
That does not translate to the lowest EHP in most cases however.
snow nest
Blox
vagrant cape
Every healer I've been with I've asked how I am to heal and every single one has said I'm easy to heal and not a problem. I should start asking how I compare to other types of tanks they heal.
As soon as I learned about deafening crash and the extreme synergy this class has, I had a feeling they'd be the sleeper OP tanks and I haven't been disproved yet.
Yeah, ignore pain feels slow but it works.
Sorry, I just wanted to express how awesome I think this class is.
vagrant cape
It's incredibly strong. We don't need Dave because we do enough damage to keep threat. Not having grip is pretty meh, but we get by. We have more than three butrons so we're more fun but more complex than bears (which can be unfortunate if many mechanics are happening). We are more mobile than demon hunters and beat them in damage. We don't self-heal, but we protect our health better than any other tank. We don't have the, uh, (what the fuck do paladins have that we don't?) holiness of paladins but, I mean, no one wants to be like a paladin.
vivid sage
we'll see how things go on the first super magic heavy boss
has anybody noticed that the music in the port of zandalar sounds like the goosebumps themesong
vagrant cape
Avatar, demo shout, thunderclap, IP, thunderclap, IP, thunderclap, IP...
junior ivy
my only issue is threat. i dont feel as squishy now that im 338 ilvl
i dont die as easily
but i do still have issues keeping aggro on big pulls 😦
analog escarp
lol
vagrant cape
I find that there are 1-3 globals where I don't have all the mobs yet, but once I start it's solid
junior ivy
its not a big enough issue for us that it causes wipes or anything
we always recover and do fine
its just annoying to me personally
i want aggro!
junior ivy
who is dave
junior ivy
ohhh
im jealous of that thing
im wonderinf if i should use that bad trinket
cause its an aoe ability
i could use it for threat i dunno
vagrant cape
Just use ravager for aoe threat 🤣 :+1: 🤢
merry cave
Anyone know what the tf cap is atm
vagrant cape
Nothing can go higher than 355
junior ivy
yeh big red button
ember arrow
@vagrant cape "dave can satisfy you" https://i.imgur.com/aRhpTpI.gif
merry cave
Thanks bryon
little rain
merry cave
Also I think the only people saying prot isn't viable are the mythic + pushers, and I still agree with them in that it's hard to beat dh or do, monk has outside chance atm tho
junior ivy
i forget, how do i get war resources?
smoky wave
Reading back, I actually miss mocking banner.
upbeat folio
I miss being able to intercept it and break snares. 😦
ember arrow
I git 3000
ember arrow
I got my profs 150
Alchemy herbalism
Dungeons i think i know most mechanics by now
Also u should have heart of azeroth level 21 when uldir comes out iirc. Thatt way you can unlock the traits
amber siren
Vol'dun
junior ivy
where though
amber siren
There's a horde flightpoint called Vulpera hideaway where there's a ton
Idk about alliance
errant dagger
I wonder if blizzard will just leave us alone or nerf us because we are fine haha
lucid ginkgo
Wiseman once said, "other classes nerfed and we are not touched, means we are buffed"
errant dagger
Let’s hope for that 😂 blizzard can be a bitch
sick sentinel
Is the 2 set from the BoE's worth ~500k gold?
severe steeple
bear buffs: don't care
turtle emisarry: akdfgailhbaldisgfaikhfgajshdfvjlafjghvduiKTYGFVY!!!!
hasty quest
Yestersay i have my first mythic experience and it goes not so bad tbh
ember arrow
what ilvl you did it on?
hasty quest
I start myth at 323
We have a good grp of dps but in the it is not so bad
Struggling a bit on multi mob aggro when avatar was on cd but if your grp makes some aoe stun there is no probs at all
ember arrow
nice
old zephyr
once you get to know the strats it is not that difficult
unreal flume
I've been running mythics as prot hoping for a decent arms weapon. Got Jes' Howler 355 titanforged so I guess I'm a tank now
old zephyr
Haste is tank's best stat, not vers
unreal flume
It's a truckload of str. with on use vers for when damage comes in - I'm happy with it
chilly brook
@old zephyr unless something changed it's actually one of our best trinks going into uldir
Second best according to Marok
With DMD being best
unreal flume
I've found prot pretty good for mythics so far - started tanking them at about 315 and it's gotten progressively easier and at 337 its a walk in the park with decent dps
IP on the GCD sucks - but otherwise its been smooth going
unreal flume
If only I could get weapons to drop (for both prot and arms - still running 300 for both with a 320 wq shield)
chilly brook
Also wish IP had a higher absorb cap
unreal flume
and I've done like 25 heroics
chilly brook
KMS dude
unreal flume
Its been super frustrating
chilly brook
You know what's even worse?
chilly brook
Clear all 10 mythics on Tuesday with a full guild group
Servant Splitter drops
Goes to an arms warrior who was accidentally in prot
Can't be traded
unreal flume
I've seen plenty of holy palas with ret loot spec get 2 handers in mythics
and I'm just dying inside
chilly brook
And there wasn't shit he could do about it
unreal flume
I only want 1 deafening crash trait right?
autumn pendant
Thank you
unreal flume
cool - got a couple pieces in my bags
chilly brook
1 deafening 2 Brace iirc
chilly brook
yea I'm running one deafening, one brace and one bloodsport
buuuuuuuut
that bloodsport piece has Azerite Veins
so it's not too shabby
unreal flume
I'm just returning after a long break after nighthold - but its been good so far. these mythics will be fun at higher keys
unreal flume
I'm still rep gated on that one, like 1000 to go
chilly brook
And Zul
unreal flume
Thought the third boss in Temple might become tricky, but thats for the poor healers to worry about
unreal flume
I'll be doing it with pugs, so that's even more exciting 😛
sick sentinel
Phil has been kicked from raid
restive anchor
Is there a BiS list for Prot?
smoky wave
As close as you get in the pins, but due to titanforging not really
restive anchor
Ty
ember arrow
ilvl>haste
severe steeple
for starters
chilly brook
@sick sentinel wasn't prot placed aboev dh for raiding?
sick sentinel
Is the shield boots set okay to buy
vocal nimbus
not worth
smoky wave
shield was 136k yesterday morning. 250k in the evening. Almost bought it, guess I'm waiting a while again now 😅
smoky wave
Oooph, I'd have snapped that up.
Ofc, but still means you've got a shield. If you hadn't bought it, it wouldn't have dropped.
smoky wave
I've been pondering that. I've been doing them as arms cos it's too much fun taking chunks out of the alliance npcs. With avatar/our dps is could actually be really good
sick sentinel
I do it as prot, when the giant spawns with tons of ore around him, I just pull him and they mine
so easy to tank him (if you dodge the beam)
green elbow
Anyone have a moment for a silly question? I couldn't find it in the pins/faqs, but I am trying to find out my block DR value
I know it scales with shield 'somehow', but that's about as much data as I've been able to get together
Obviously there is a block value number on my shield, but it's not a strict damage-that number
oh blast, sorry, I found it, some mod was 'helpfully' removing the number from the mouseover. Disable the mod and it shows right up. Sorry!
vocal nimbus
Just hover over the block stat in your character sheet
smoky wave
yeah, think so. Tanked some hc last night, didn't have any problems particularly. Still plays fun. IP could do with being more satisfying to hit but otherwise good
pastel mirage
smoky wave
disagree
I think it should be on the gcd, but I think it should be better. Make it an interesting choice to hit IP or the revenge proc.
queen oyster
IP just needs to be a bigger shield to help with magic damage intake
or make it more effective against magic dmg
smoky wave
aye, on the gcd is find, but it needs to feel better to press it
queen oyster
anyways I've got 85 hours at max on my priest so I might give my warrior some love
did yall level in prot?
easy to pull big packs?
smoky wave
prot with an enh shaman, but yeah, super easy. Run around, avatar and stomp everything, spend as much rage as you can to reset avatar. Rinse and repeat
queen oyster
cool
smoky wave
rare/elite quest mobs were slower but no chance of dying.
queen oyster
do we take the thing that reoplaces victory rush?
for guaranteed self healing?
impending victory
smoky wave
Never felt I missed it as stuff died fast enough, but I also had a shaman for when I did need heals so dunno
sick sentinel
do we live a life without mannoroths bracelet or do we have any form of self heal (Except VR) that i missed?
smoky wave
Other than the odd azerite Trait nah, no self heals. It's fine though.
old zephyr
compared to other tank :
if we got a bad heal, we are screwed.
if we got a good heal, we can do MUUUCH better than them
ember arrow
no tank other than bdk can fully self sustain
the heal from other tanks isnt enough to keep them up
even bdk is only responsible for 60-70% of their healing
analog escarp
buffing IP might help a little
sick sentinel
I have the feeling that blizzard is going to nerf our aoe dmg
sick sentinel
I only tank so i dont know what other tanks do
but i think that we can delete trash packs this makes up for the lack of healing we got in such big pulls
ember arrow
you wont be deleting much of anything once fortified weeks show up
cosmic cargo
i hear from people who have dh and pala that pala might be second place, not dh
haven't heard from anyone with both pala and warr though 🤔
chilly brook
Pally has always been capable of good aoe dps
smoky wave
May be levelling my paladin next for healing, but the thought of having a healer/tank combo is tasty. It'd be a no brainer if I had a better choice than belf or tauren though.
chilly brook
As far as how prot warrior is doing it seems fine
It actually feels a lot like I thought it would only gets much better with gear
However we really won't see how it really is until we actually get deep into progression in Uldir
IDK why people have an issue playing a BE, they're literally the best looking race and the most realistically proportioned
ember arrow
hahaha
smoky wave
It's not a troll.
ember arrow
"realistically"
ye good argument in wow
humans are the best looking race
adn the best proportioned
surprisingly
chilly brook
human? lol
Way too stocky
if you're talking human female yea
But the males?
lawl
ember arrow
how can a fantasy race be unrealisticalyl proportioned?
like orcs
theyre not real yaknow
their proportions is whatever we make them
chilly brook
Now you're just being obtuse
cosmic cargo
human and night elf weapons are ridiculously oversized
ember arrow
no im not, youre bringing realism in a fantasy race
cosmic cargo
compared to BE
ember arrow
BE feels like im swinging a toothpick
fiery pendant
realistically proportioned compared to what lol
cosmic cargo
even those are generally oversized realistically
fiery pendant
real people
chilly brook
It's not wrong to say that male humans are extremely over exaggerated
ember arrow
2H swords were not much bigger than 1h swords
for example
if talking about realism
cosmic cargo
prot artifact on human for example looks super silly
chilly brook
I mean they're not irl
cosmic cargo
it's like a door
fiery pendant
i love that lol
ember arrow
small shield was best
realistically
but i dont wanna walk around witha small plate
big shields are a fantasy concept
cosmic cargo
that totally depends on context
but like on a BE it doesn't look small
but it doesn't look huge either
chilly brook
Context is key
cosmic cargo
my warr is NE anyway, cause alli
chilly brook
Anyways, male BE seems to have the best proportions both in body and in armor and weapons nothing seems overly exaggerated
chilly brook
lul
ember arrow
calling something realistic or having right proportions is pointless on somethign that doesnt exist
if bliz makes belfs have 2 heads all of asudden
then that will be the new Belf
smoky wave
It's less the looks, its more the story behind the race. Other than tauren, where my main issue is doorways.
chilly brook
I mean unless the humans in this fantasy world are over double the strength of real life humans that statement is demonstrably false
cosmic cargo
even with double strength it'd still be silly
because the weight would cause balance issues
chilly brook
don't wanna know what those pauldrons weigh
pliant notch
analog escarp
why tanks are mistreated in bfa 😦 no interesting trinkets GCD slowly killing us
amber siren
nope, no stat caps, just follow the stat priority
winged kindle
so on a "haste - crit " ring, with socket... i wil lsocket more haste ?? o.o
amber siren
Yeah haste is still our 'best' stat, but with str being strong and the rest of our secondaries not far behind, you wouldn't sacrifice those for an ilvl drop with haste
winged kindle
no, same ilvl
old zephyr
Always haste.
More uptime on AM. More rage more Damage, more everything
amber siren
you'd still want to socket haste
amber siren
👌
eager phoenix
will battle potion of str always be prefered pot? How does steelskin/stamina potion compare? Icy veins article in guide only says Str potion but since it didnt mention the others I was curious how they stand in comparison.
cosmic cargo
the other damage pot is probably better for ST dps
merry cave
Generally tanks haven't used survivability pots for a long time unless there's a super specific mechanic we can't survive with a cd or external
Last time I remember using tank pots was Sunwell lol
grim prism
@merry cave itd be at least 160% haste
merry cave
Guess not then:P
vocal nimbus
And current tank pots only grant armor
There hasnt been a situation which would require extra armor to survive in like, ages
hearty portal
Yo guys! New to the discord
What do you guys think about prot currently? I've tanked alot of mythics without an issue. But I do understand what people say when they think the spec is clanky. Do you think it will be changed in the near future?
merry cave
Soulwalkwr there's a stamina one too now I'm pretty sure
vocal nimbus
But that isnt really tank specific
Furthermore, a situation in a 8-10 min fight where you would need 25 sec of HP sounds like bad design
In my opinion, of course
@hearty portal Im enjoying current prot
merry cave
I'm. It disagreeing I doubt I'll ever use it, maybe it'll see light on super high keys if there are 1 shot mechanics
hearty portal
Well me to, but i get the complaints aswell
merry cave
As I said I don't think I've used a tanky style pot (Stam armour anything) since Sunwell lol
pulsar grove
Anyone know how to get stat weights for prot warr?
pulsar grove
Sure but priorities doesnt help me with a hard choice between items
Maybe you can help
330 ring Haste Vers or 340 ring Vers Mast
pulsar grove
Rings are different
amber siren
our stats are so close rn that even if haste is our best stat, losing out on 'more' stats isn't ideal
pulsar grove
Alright then
amber siren
it can also be short for damage reduction
hearty portal
Yeah looking again
Thats probably more likely
But I dont think that sheet is valuing haste enough? Haste affects so much
cosmic cargo
the topic is long gone but tanks used tank pots in wod
since bonus armor was busted for dps too
I miss bonus armor
fair root
Should i be rocking 340 Jes' Howler or a 350 Vial of Animated Blood?
amber siren
Haste is important but with secondary stats being linear now, you won't see large jumps in secondary stats like you did in legion
The odds of having 'the best' stats with warforging and titanforging is pretty small
So it's easier to just get the most stats and str
signal plover
Personally I'd run the 340 howler
rain dune
The howler.
vocal nimbus
Howler is an on demand dr
balmy lichen
yesterday a fury war dropped a 340 howler but cant give it to me because it was soulbound 😢
thorny pumice
Thoughts on using impending victory in dungeons/mythics or is it just not enough of a heal to matter?
signal plover
Not better than ITF
thorny pumice
Figured as much. Just felt like I was always begging for heals in mythic Kings Rest last night lol
signal plover
Your hp is very smooth with proper SB/IP/CD useage. So a healer should be able to catch up eventually.
The IV heal is reactive and chances are you'll get some victory rushes in bigger packs anyway.
That being said there are some heavy magic Dmg pulls in KR
Plus those berserker bleeds
thorny pumice
Yeah, I had no issue until then really. That long hallway before the third boss and then the mini boss before the last boss. I just resorted to kiting
ashen trellis
Should be kiting a lot in kings rest
Berserkers can be slowed and CC'ed to death
the bleed is a frontal cleave
sick sentinel
not me.
we just blow em up.
berserkers will do a bloody leap.
I just chill out and wait for it to come back.
dot is already off.
it dies.
use group stuns/shockwave/storm bolt as additional cast interrupts/stun uninterruptible casts.
chill mythics.
upper spoke
hey do we still like haste food, the way we did in legion? the guide only mentions strength banquet food
and I was surprised the guide preferred strength from banquet rather than stamina
any insight, please?
simple lintel
Hey guys I have tanked about 20 dungeons so far this expansion and I feel like we dont generate enough threat sometimes. I even feel a little weak when it comes to mitigation. Does anyone else feel similar.
simple lintel
On that 1 mob or all abilities while taunt is active
compact mirage
On the mob affected by taunt for all abilities
fresh dragon
yo. im discussing on a facebook community with guys that tell we are the worst tank in everything... M+ and Raid
well.. i think they are wrong... are they?
compact mirage
Btw I tanked mythic BFA yesterday with ilvl 315. We started with Motherlode and did the pirate dungeon thereafter. Was not that bad at all.
Having 324 now.
bold mirage
IMO getting information anywhere outside of this discord is misinformed. Most people are puking up something they heard from someone else outside of here
the numbers guys live here and I trust them
Warriors are fine. Go tank and you will see
balmy lichen
i tanked mythic with 300ish ilvl. We're fine. Healers always say that we're smooth to heal
severe flame
i want to try tanking so badly, but there is a bit of a drought on one-handers
dark junco
So pretty much anything a arms warrior can bring
cinder pasture
Except an arms warrior cant tank 😄
dark junco
No, but that leaves a slot for another tank
sick sentinel
arms doesnt have shockwave and you rather have a rogue utility then warrior tbh
junior igloo
Does arms have AoE stun or safeguard?
Arms has rally, but there is no downside to having 2 and using them twice as often.
The only redundant utility is the 10 % AP shout
sick sentinel
mythics feel like normal dungeons to me.
also having your tank give you battle shout is always good %10 AP
the damage from trash/bosses isn't there anymore.
its normal mythics so it doesnt matter when m+ starts obviously there will be a meta for high pushing keys and doing keys faster
dark junco
Well atm i’m not using safeguard in dungeon yet, but yeah there will be that.
sick sentinel
mythic+ cant come soon enough. zzz
dark junco
Yeah 2 weeks
balmy lichen
how much in your server?
sick sentinel
just 1 regular for 400k.
balmy lichen
😐
sick sentinel
which isn't worth.
balmy lichen
nope
sick sentinel
upgrade ilvl wise anyway for me.
need WF/TF.
gold cost dun matter to me. have millions from WOD and Legion garrison/order hall abuse + AH manipulations.
dark junco
Got a 340’ from rezan, calling it quits there.
cinder pasture
I haven't had luck with shields in mythics so far...Have had like 4 or 5 drops in hcs though. If only it was the other way around
sage kettle
Might be a stupid question but how good is prot in situations (m dungeons) where healer dies halfway through
Coming here from dk where I didnt rly care about lack of healer in such moments thats why i'm asking
amber siren
Unfortunately we're still more reliant on healers than the other tanks
Just hope whatever cd's you have left are enough
sage kettle
so prot is mostly about mitigation not self sustain yes?
amber siren
Yep, we can mitigate fine, we just lack any meaningful self healing
vagrant cape
Correct. We can't get our health back easily at all, but we protect it better than any other tank.
sage kettle
mhm got it
fallen gazelle
The things that pushed me over the edge to switching to a diff tank was just IP being on gcd and devastator not being viable
final mist
I just want to note that all tanks are completely reliant on healers.
Even on a DK or DH you'll never be 100% self-sustaining. Especially in higher M+
hearty portal
Does Iron Fortress azarite trait stack?
signal plover
Ya
final mist
Yes.
final mist
The only trait you never want multiples of is Deafening Crash, since the DS extension doesn't stack (though the TC damage does).
Feel free to stack the others.
cosmic cargo
if you were going for pure aoe dps wouldn't it actually still be worth stacking?
just for the damage
ionic maple
quick question why is Prot the only spec missing from a Sim C lists?
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html
timid jay
Probably yeah, can't say for sure without working sims
final mist
Prot is missing from SimC because we aren't working on the backend.
sick sentinel
which was only meaningful because of legendaries to begin with.
hearty portal
Booming voice is to good
timid jay
🤔
ionic maple
Ah that makes sense, sometime the simplest answer... thx guys
timid jay
Devastator was good even without gloves
hearty portal
Cant play without it
final mist
Neither Marok, Cosmo, or I can fix the backend, though we can write APLs just fine, so we'll need to wait until we can get someone who can write it to fix the backend for us.
sick sentinel
booming voice, God's voice.
final mist
So Sims aren't working for a while. Same as Legion.
steep dock
Hey does anyone know a good place to get reliable Prot stat weights for Pawn? The built in ones seem to be terrible.
hearty portal
Do you guys think IP should come off GCD? Or would you rather see some other change?
final mist
@steep dock don't use Pawn, stat weights for tanks don't work out.
IP being off the GCD would be a welcome change.
It'd fix a lot (the GCD is pretty cramped even without taking IP into consideration).
hearty portal
Would we be to strong if that happened tho?
fallen gazelle
No. You still need the rage to do it and shield block is still better
hearty portal
I haven't played other tanks, but the guy that im running with think warrior are the best :p
merry cave
Id honestly like to see a utility, shield slam purging (in pve only) would be awesome
hearty portal
Healer*
sick sentinel
'only on aoe'?
fallen gazelle
But if I’m charging into a big pack and I need to stack DR until the healer gets into gear then I don’t need to be spending a gcd on IP and losing aggro on stuff
sick sentinel
never rage limited.
candid cove
He’s probably like the only healer feeling that way
sick sentinel
no reason not to use demo shout any/all the time.
merry cave
I'd like IV baseline personally and it would solve a lot of my personl dislike in high keys, buti know a lot aorund here dont agree
sick sentinel
or avatar on single big mobs.
hearty portal
We started doing mythics when i was itemlevel 306 and it was pretty easy
sick sentinel
warrior was never meant to be a sustain class. if you want self-healing so much, can play another class. that is not prot warriors design. If needed so badly, can always Azerite Veins.
final mist
Warriors (good Warriors) will deal significantly more and take significantly less damage than other tanks (esp in AoE), and healers can see this - we just don't have utility in comparison to other tanks (read: Grip), which is why people say we're shit.
sick sentinel
^
final mist
That's why people say we suck in M+, which is just wrong, IMO.
candid cove
They also see we can’t solo a boss after the healer dies to a fire
sick sentinel
and short sighted.
what exactly is wrong with the current backend? do you just need ignore pain edited or what
hearty portal
Tbh, no tank should have crazy selfsustain
wide juniper
Agreed.
hearty portal
Tanks should rely on healers and vise verse
wide juniper
But, not all tanks should be 100% based on active mitigation
hearty portal
Tag team
fallen gazelle
I don’t think anything is wrong other than how bad it feels to play coming out of legion
grim prism
+1 for wondering what's wrong with simc on the backend
wide juniper
Make it interesting.
sick sentinel
gives too much excuse for others to be lazy/bad, knowing they can just rely on tank and its sustain to cheese end of an encounter.
Which is just dumb design.
grim prism
Actually was having an unrelated convo about that, which is why i popped in this morning lol
final mist
On SimC: Too much to list out on mobile.
sick sentinel
you'll hardly notice IP being on GCD once you reach the haste levels im in.
and you'll never need to press devastate again.
final mist
On tanks: No tank is self-reliant. Everyone needs a healer focusing them basically 100%. It's just super noticeable on warriors because we don't have self healing at all.
And way too many people are way too stuck in Legion's "Tanks need self healing to be good" mentality.
It's simply not the case anymore and people haven't realized it yet.
sick sentinel
mhm.
Since it's a large list of to-do, i'm assuming that entire damage taken vs damage reduced (of abilities) along with talents
and azerite
fallen gazelle
Should have realized it if you did anything prepatch before bfa hit
final mist
To give you an idea, SimC is still saying that T21's 2pc is BiS for DPS. That's how long it's been since SimC was touched on the backend.
sick sentinel
oof
grim prism
Oh so its still the same problems from last expac, to some degree?
hearty portal
Since I havent played other tanks. Do they have anything that they are way worse then warriors at? Like Bad mitigation/ bad mobility/bad support? Or is there a tank class that excells at everything?
undone sun
most of last expac it wasn't on anyone's todo list
now it is but not nearly top priority
final mist
We were working at the end of the last expac
sick sentinel
they're all squishier armor/mitigation wise, save prot paladin, and sorta druid.
final mist
Early in ABT
undone sun
^
final mist
It's just the guys that we got to fix it, write for the other tanks, so they're doing their own classes first.
Which we can't really blame them for.
sick sentinel
I think we have better magic mitigation than them? correct if im wrong
grim prism
Fair
sick sentinel
DKs might be better with that
final mist
Just be patient and it'll come soon.
grim prism
Thanks fke the clear info
cosmic cargo
closest to excelling at everything is monk, they still have 1-2 weakness though
fallen gazelle
We have to have magic mitigation because every other tank has equivalent self healing that does the magi mit
cosmic cargo
aka bleeds and frequent magic damage
sick sentinel
we do have it. im saying better than others.
magic mitigation? what's that? 
correct me if im wrong.
fallen gazelle
Spell reflect
sick sentinel
lul
cosmic cargo
warrior doesn't have better magic mitigation than pala
sick sentinel
spell reflect and IP
cosmic cargo
holy shield, DR from consecration
sick sentinel
imo ignore pain should be buffed to a certain degree and have better scaling
DR from IP, DS
IP scales with your mastery + vers + strength. get more gear and it'll be better.
doesn't need to be buffed. when gear is shit atm
just wait until you are on first boss of the raid
: D
compact mirage
Pulling with warrior requires creativity some time but mostly working with line of sight is fine to get some of the trickier caster pulls done.
uneven mason
🤔 IP scales with the damage we take in, our Tank buster magic mitigation is Demoshout + IP&SR so we have effective 40% + (50% up to ~50,000 remaining damage depending on your IP cast) I'd say Warriors have the flat out strongest magic mitigation for tank busters, but piddly repeated casts are what destroy us, which is where paladins shine (they're MUCH stronger vs repeated frequent magic damage)
thorn trail
the only magic damage i feel threatened by in mythics is the miniboss at the end of king's rest
at least so far
uneven mason
Oh I feel threaten by a lot of magic damage, that galecaster with Ironhull wrecks my day.
sick sentinel
DPS race while keeping IP/SR off. no need to block.
uneven mason
but unlike other tanks - Ironhull doesn't even phase me
thorn trail
yeah i just rotated cds and kept ip up. im more concerned with m+ scaling if dps can't outpace it
that's the only point so far where i was like "holy shield would be nice right about now"
uneven mason
for the most part I'd say tanks are balanced, as long as they don't nerf our DPS and it scales on par with DPS specs, I'd say being able to belt out 50,000 on large packs makes up for a LOT of Utility
There does reach a limitatio nthough, where cheese is needed in the sammich
and we lack cheese, we're all meat
thorn trail
yeah that was actually why i went warrior. we do bladestorm damage in aoe and all the tanks need heals now anyway
limber perch
aoe shieldslam 
sick sentinel
zzz
uneven mason
TFW Thunderclap hits harder than shield slam
thorn trail
feels fine to me 😃
uneven mason
Warmode root talent during avatar +++ as they try and run away
They see the shield and don't think it'll hurt, then we're like THUNDER THUNDER THUNDERCLAPS HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
stray dagger
I fear it's going to get bad as damage ramps. A lot of mobs are doing inherent magic dmg and IP isn't going to scale well enough.
uneven mason
So, like, something has to hit REALLY REALLY hard to overwhelm your IP in 1 hit
grim prism
Thats a legitimate concern
uneven mason
Like almost half your health pool
grim prism
But we are talking really high level stuff here
thorn trail
i played dh, pally, and warrior in beta. we're all kiting anyway as things hit harder
uneven mason
IP seems to be scaling pretty fast to
grim prism
Not raids and not the kind of m+ that you need for a weekly
sick sentinel
my IP is 35k+ before proccs/buffs.
grim prism
We eill be fine for those
sick sentinel
and my mastery's still low.
uneven mason
from 300 to 330 I gained about 30% on the absorb amount
sick sentinel
so I know it could be even bigger.
junior igloo
IP scales just fine with AP as everything else
grim prism
Also keep in mind, like they said above, there is more to tanking than just bricktanking in melee
sick sentinel
s'what im saying. as gear gets better, it'll only get better. doesn't need a buff/tweak.
grim prism
CC and kiting is an important part of the job
sick sentinel
and with your armor/block increasing behind that IP scaling, also making IP last longer.
uneven mason
It scales with Mastery, weapon damage, str, and attack power. But thats Volume when you talk about IP scaling, the absorb amount itself is going to be based on the intake of damage rather than the volume of the buff.
limber perch
how are you getting 35k+ IP
junior igloo
We have a lot more frequent cooldowns (Anger Management) than other tanks.
Those CDs work against magic.
We also have Ignore Pain and Spell Reflection.
If we can't deal with magic damage, what are monks/bears going to do?
limber perch
im still at 22 or some shit
uneven mason
It seems to stay fairly consistent on the % Of our health that the max hit will soak that is - the Full absorb of an IP will trim 40% of a hit that hits for 50% of your health.
erm
other way around
50% of a hit that hits for 40% Of your health
cosmic cargo
@junior igloo imo warr is right bellow dk and pala vs magic, frequent magic that is
less frequent it's on par
but except for DH everyone can deal with magic tank busters
by just using CDs
DH suffers because of a lack of proper CDs
thorn trail
plus with the thunder clap trait im getting like 66% uptime on demo shout. it's pretty crazy
sick sentinel
337+ ilvl, 5kish AP, 716 mastery, 938 versatility, 340 mythic weapon, str flask, str food.
thorn trail
it doesnt ever fall off till 2 claps after avatar ends, then just reapply and wait for your next avatar
sick sentinel
new mythic drops made me lose some haste, got more crit. 😦
steady fiber
any one using pawn for prot ?
uneven mason
No
you can't
for multiple reasons, primarily because there are no working strings for pawn for prot
since SimC is not updated for prot
Item level > Haste > Vers>=Mast > Crit @steady fiber
steady fiber
ok ty , and last question would be should i remove pawn then because i gues it's not working for arms/fury to ?
final mist
Pawn also doesn't work for defensive gearing, only DPS gearing.
uneven mason
weights are mostly irrelevant for warriors in general.
It works if you use it properly Pkownzs
but, in general you're going to sim for upgrades
since the weights will change each time
cosmic cargo
with raidbots being so easy to use I wouldn't recommend pawn for dps'ers either
timid jay
^
cosmic cargo
just sim top gear
timid jay
I'd just recommend simming everything, its real easy to do with raidbots and doesnt take long
(For dps classes, dont sim prot)
uneven mason
They did a really good job with getting our stats close enough that generally an item level increase is going to endup being an upgrade - Fury & Arms
Item level is almost ALWAYS going to be a defensive upgrade for prot. outliers are rings/trinkets
steady fiber
raidbots is like addon btw? sry for dumb question
uneven mason
its a site
sick sentinel
decided to use versatility enchant instead of armor.
timid jay
uneven mason
sick sentinel
just cus comfy more IP/damage/all reduction.
timid jay
Get the SimC addon and just copy all the code into raidbots 👌
sick sentinel
and have plenty of haste from gear/ITF as is
fathom marten
Okay, now when things are starting to get tougher, I'm actually really starting to get annoyed with our GCD change
sick sentinel
dont forget +40 strength kraken gem before gemming haste
uneven mason
yeah I've been using vers gems myself, more or less because I've reached a point where I feel comfortable with my rage generation, I don't have any horrifying gaps in my mitigation and vers helps me vs those nickle and dime magic hits a little
cloud basin
How come I can't paste the code from raidbots back to pawn?
sick sentinel
because it doesnt work.
uneven mason
don't use pawn
sick sentinel
dont use pawn.
cloud basin
Did something change?
fathom marten
You have to think like, for one we are very diffrent from other classes when spending resources for abilities. We have to gain our resource which takes time. Then we have to wait for the gcd. Then it's back to square one.
steady fiber
@timid jay SimC u were talking about the SimulationCraft ?
amber siren
simc is simulation craft
timid jay
Yeah the addon is probably called that
sick sentinel
again GCD change becoming less annoying/noticeable as haste increases.
timid jay
Raidbots is basically a website that runs simulationcraft for you, though I must stress that protection warriors arent supported yet
uneven mason
and yeah, don't sim Prot
fathom marten
At first I didn't really have a problem with it. Now as I'm getting higher into content it's deff a hinderance far more then I anticipated
steady fiber
and no idea when they will add support for prot war ?
uneven mason
won't matter, I mean, you can't sim defensives
uneven mason
I don't forsee us, if they tune things right with that k variable to ever reach a point where we stop caring about how tanky we are and focus on damage
Unless you're @grim prism
Cause that guy just like to torture his healers
steady fiber
using bad stat gear ?
uneven mason
No, just focusing on making the DPS Look bad 😉
sick sentinel
: >
uneven mason
Protection has opportunities where we can smooth damage intake, or do more damage
I mean, its damage reduction if they die faster right 😄
steady fiber
well depends how fast u can kill them
steady fiber
killing speed + dmg taken = profit ?
undone sun
unfortunately it's not legion so we can't easily do both
uneven mason
More or less, but yeah, if you need a guideline for gearing, just run with Item level > all, if equal item levels, Haste > Vers=>Mastery > Crit
uneven mason
on trinkets str will be a solid stat since it provides armor
grim prism
Lmfao
uneven mason
and scales IP
steady fiber
btw there is atm BiS trinkets ?
grim prism
Hasnt even run a dungeon with me and knows i'm sadistic with my healers
@steady fiber they are in the pinned guide, tldr buy a darkmoon deck and farm a howler from tol dagor
steady fiber
oh ok ty once again
slate obsidian
anything with haste because stamina is useless for dps
you wanna be able to outburst your Havoc on big pulls
uneven mason
str mastery does the most for your padding on AE pulls btw Omni 😛
slate obsidian
you don't need any defensive capabilities either, you just need to kill things until all stuns and your druids treants/shamans earth ele run out
at that point you can start kiting, or just throw a def CD, you got enough of them
vagrant cape
weapons can have armor? what?
slate obsidian
armor doesn't do dmg, so haste
amber siren
you can do haste or armour, it's personal preference honestly
@vagrant cape he means enchant
vagrant cape
ooooh, ty
slate obsidian
with the current armor percentage, a fully activated armor enchant gives you roughly 6% physical dmg reduction, whilst a fully procced haste enchant gives you around 10% haste
lethal gulch
Does anyone miss devastator?
amber siren
The rotation feels pretty bad with it tbh
slate obsidian
nah, the rotation with devastate feels pretty bad, as you rarely use it anyways
amber siren
That's the point, it's a filler
uneven mason
Its fishing bait
silk bridge
I’ve heard a lot of bad noise surrounding Prot warrior if I come back to the game will I just be sad? Can’t find any actual info
uneven mason
Well, they needed to get our rage gen under control 😉
signal plover
How hard have you looked for info because there's at least a guide that tells you exactly how to play
tight tree
I love warrior but it is very different. Have to get used to new rhytm of steady pressing one ability after another with GCD. Instead of hectic IP spam.
signal plover
And after u can do that reasonably well, prot warr is pretty great
tight tree
But it is unforgivable. Cnat autopilot it like brewmaster.
uneven mason
@silk bridge There is a lot of bad noise around prot warriors, but that's all it is, noise. The spec is solid as hell, almost OP in some situations. The GCD changes ahve a lot of panties in a bunch though, folks who never were prot before Legion didn't realize that tanking wasn't supposed to be played as if you were a coked up 8 year old on a DDR Turbo tournament.
tight tree
Legion had this bad perception about tanks not being tanks but instead immortal DPS/utility machines. Now tanks are tanks again.
errant dagger
@silk bridge i think the only reason people dont like it is because it feels weird to play with all these gcd and weird fillers
amber siren
It's not going to come off GCD unless they suddenly revamp hotp, fr etc
lethal gulch
SB is off gcd, right?
amber siren
yep
undone sun
Shield block, yes
lethal gulch
It's weird for me playing prot now after legion's prot
I'm still adjusting, but I like it
merry cave
IP is different to hotp and fr in the fact its proactive not reactive though
so theres a small chance
i agree with you that it most likely wont, but wecan dream 😛
amber siren
😢
uneven mason
TFW Folks complain about having Devastate - IP off the GCD would literally only mean you're pressing Devastate more often it wouldn't really boost our RPS much, it wouldn't do much for our damage, it would just make us cast our filler twice as often.
IP doesn't stack high enough to be spammable - our RPS is not high enough to spam it in most situations anyway
Why does IP being on the GCD matter a whole lot, do you REALLY feel the need to hit Devastate twice as often?
Just saying, IP being off the GCD would not be the godly gift that folks think it is.
What folks mean to say is "I want my spammable eternally stacking 90% absorb IP back"
lethal gulch
Are you mad? People are just talking. Jeez.
uneven mason
Crazy mad or angry?
Probably the first, no to the second
Its a horse that has been beaten so much that its been reduced to jello - reconstituted into the shape of a horse, and beaten again.
I just want folks to actually think about what they would gain from IP being off the GCD
final mist
More than you think.
little star
cosmic cargo
someone forgot some 0s
uneven mason
RHUTROH
lethal gulch
That's awesome
amber siren
feelsbadman
red sequoia
Well that sucks,for that guy
jade tartan
Ya not be dreaming now, mon!
junior ivy
aw i feel bad for the guy who sold it
merry cave
to the guy above IP off gcd isnt about it being spammed
its about it being much faster to use to abilities
fathom marten
@uneven mason ehhh I think your underestimating the effectiveness of being able to charge in and hit sb and ip after another. Though, you're completley right about people beating a dead horse
The fluidness of the rotation for the first 5-8 seconds of the encounter is just really bad.
IP off the GCD would just help clean it up.
ember arrow
Guys is ip still on gcd? Are prot warr viable for m raiding?
grim prism
primal crypt
ember arrow
Sry first time here
primal crypt
grim prism
Keep Yourself Safe ;)
primal crypt
went to AH to check for the same luck as @little star .... 600k 😦
600g would have been nice
fathom marten
@uneven mason why? Woudlnt you wait the same time of the GCD to hit sb because of swing timer and ability casting?
grim prism
Swing timer generally refers to autoattacks, it is separate from GCD and is irrelevant for terms of prot discussion since a) devastator is not an ideal talent anymore and b) even when it was, it was determined that swing timer management was not significantly beneficial
I dont think i understand your question
uneven mason
For performance in Dungeons, not having to wait 1.5s to "make an exit" would do more for my survivability over having an IP that was off the GCD. Unless IP was buffed to its previous insanity, the mobs are going to chunk through it instantly on GCD or off GCD when the Stuns break anyway.
runic fjord
having defensive abilities off the GCD will always be preferable to the alternative
i'm not sure why this is an argument
uneven mason
It means I could hit another TC before jetting with an intercept to my healer
thus - have better threat for kiting dangerous packs
fathom marten
He is saying that charge being off gcd would help more. Which I don't u understand how considering it's not a defensive ability in of itself, you'll maybe hit 2-3 times an encounter.
regal island
@uneven mason "IP doesn't stack high enough to be spammable - our RPS is not high enough to spam it in most situations anyway"
lol man? No other tank has that issue. If a bear wants to spam 2x frenzied regen cd's back to back they can, as well as DH soul healing, pally heals, etc.
The max stack is just too low given that it's a 50% MITIGATION not a heal and we do not generate enough rage and IP mechanic doesn't work as if it will ever give us any type of complete sustain.
grim prism
Oh i charge all the time tbh
timid jay
Its not meant to be a complete sustain
runic fjord
I mean, intevene is also a defensive cooldown.
grim prism
More than twice a pull
uneven mason
Tank sustain = not a thing?
runic fjord
Tank sustain has been gutted in BFA.
regal island
If you compare IP to other Mit abilities, those are stackable as well for a duration extension generally.
timid jay
Comparing it like that is completely unfair
runic fjord
It was a design choice so that that they could rebalance damage sources and make more healers viable in high M+ keys
timid jay
You have to realize that the toolkit around it matters a lot as well
regal island
No reason to not be able to stack IP. The reason is blizz is lazy and coded it as a DOT with a 30% pandemic
uneven mason
IP has no equivalent among the other tanks, it fulfills the "slot" of a 2ndary EHP boost for warriors (like a heal for the other tanks, or purifying for monks)
0_o lazy = completely rewriting the ability three times?
safe perch
1 week and still no shield drop for me .c, i think i should use my time to farm the gold for the boe, cant handle my bad luck anymore xd
uneven mason
Sounds lazy to me.
regal island
copy and paste coding isn't "rewriting" lol
grim prism
Having anything off GCD would feel better than having it on GCD. I'm all for theorycrafting but i think we are getting a little off track with the hypotheticals lol
regal island
it's half assing something 3 times
runic fjord
@grim prism exactly
undone sun
sure there are equivalents
talking about tanks that have 2 "active mitigations" which is every tank
IP and SB fit that category
ember arrow
Woa we got a computer expert here
grim prism
It is what it is, and it is unlikely to change
undone sun
paladin has hotp and sotr
bear has FR and IF
DK has Bone shield and blood shield
IP has no equivalent among the other tanks,
ember arrow
Blood shield isnt
uneven mason
I mean mechanically Thyme, it fulfills that role
fathom marten
Okay let's not complicate intercept, obviously it has its defensive capabilities but that's not what will make us better by taking it off the GCD. Taking int of the GCD does hardly anything besides let you hit SS and TC faster which is not the part of the fight that is rough. It's literally the fact that there needs to be a ability off the GCD in our rotation..
uneven mason
but mechanically the other tanks operate off of heals in that slot, BrM is closer
grim prism
Prot is already a newbie trap imo
undone sun
there's no other way to look at it, technically speaking it is correct
regal island
IP is literally just a bubble, that diminishes slower. It's essentially a self heal.
grim prism
High mitigation, low sustain
undone sun
whether or not it's proactive or reactive
grim prism
We are unlike other tanks
uneven mason
You agreed with me while disagreeing 🤦
regal island
Like if IP was replaced with a self HOT it would be a minimal impact.
timid jay
Welcome to prot
runic fjord
you bored at work? what's goin on fam
timid jay
Enjoy your stay
ember arrow
I mean. Healing fir 25% of dmg taken is essentially 25% dr for 5 sec right? @undone sun
wild hamlet
I'm bored at work
regal island
it's called conversation. But yeah at work and bored.
grim prism
I was, actually my sister is having a baby so i took the day off
timid jay
I'd much rather have a absorb than heal
uneven mason
mostly bored at work
grim prism
To argue with you people
runic fjord
same
timid jay
Since it raises your EHP
runic fjord
i'm bored at work too
regal island
^ yes
uneven mason
Absorb can be placed ahead of the damage (thus being proactive)
silk bridge
@uneven mason @errant dagger I just read your responses thanks for the info. It’s hard to separate who’s crying because they miss spamming all their buttons, and who has legitimate info.
regal island
but point being it's just a self heal
fathom marten
Blah. How about we combine an ability. Dks have abilities that are like 2 in one
runic fjord
i prefer the shield since it's technically magic damage mitigation which other tanks are fucking lacking
wild hamlet
So Prot is the legion BrM of BfA is that what you are saying? Everyone complains about how bad they are, but a few dedicated people maintain they are actually really strong, then suddenly 2 patches down the line everyone realises and they are the new OP?
runic fjord
pretty much yeah prot takes less damage than everyone else rn
regal island
they did the 50% dmg passthough to prevent us from upping our "max EHP" farther than other tanks
fathom marten
I don't think people are saying prot is horrible viable wise. It's play style wise.
timid jay
I suspect it has more to be with IP still working on magic damage
runic fjord
^^^^
timid jay
if it was 90% it would trivialize a lot of mechanics
regal island
Oh nah prot = best tank right now imo
runic fjord
that's the big one
also realistically, from a design standpoint reducing it to 50% allows them to buff it with azerite abilities without it becoming too strong
timid jay
Regardless with the changes to RPS and GCD having it at 50% makes sense, otherwise you'd spam it a lot
grim prism
Prot is prot. People say we are bad because we are easier to play incorrectly. It is totally viable once you learn the mechanics of the spec. It isnt OP and it isnt trash.
timid jay
Reducing the cap makes the same effect as well
regal island
I mean i only have bear at 328ish and my prot is 340 and dh is 322 but prot is by far the most fun and honestly just OP.
runic fjord
personally i don't have an issue with the cap reduction as it gets chewed through so fast anyway
uneven mason
That would probably be the trade off, lets say the rebalance IP, make it 90% again, they'd have to either make it such a small absorb, to be equal to the 50% we have now, and you'd be spamming it anyway
grim prism
I really like where we are at tbh
runic fjord
^
uneven mason
Or give it a CD
timid jay
A 1.5 second CD? Kappa
regal island
I'd just prefer to stack it up say 2x so i can focus on other stuff
it's more annoying to have to spread the casts when i have the rage
grim prism
They dont want you to do that though. They want you to have to choose rotationally between dps and mitigation.
runic fjord
^
regal island
it's the same though
grim prism
If it was off-GCD, there would be no choice
jade tartan
Yep
uneven mason
Yup
runic fjord
yup
grim prism
You would press IP to keep rage below 100 while spamming DPS
regal island
say i have 2 IP in 10 gcd's
grim prism
Mindless
smoky wave
Yay choices!
uneven mason
Again though the opportunities where you have enough rage to do that
regal island
means i cant do IP, IP, x,x,x,...etc I'm forced into IP,x,x,x,IP,x,x,x
runic fjord
but i normally have more rage than i know what to do with
dark wraith
No idea how can you say that prot is good right now. It got nerfed substantialy more then other tanks with ignore pain not only on GDC but also 40% of absorb removed. We lost atleast 50% of our dmg mitigation and left of with smallest health pool of all tanks. Prot wasnt good in legion now its even worse
runic fjord
lol what
uneven mason
0_o
regal island
rolf
runic fjord
u trollin bruh?