Helbrute, I'm on a one man pro-gcd campaign. Being on the gcd isn't the issue, the issue is it feels like it's not worth pushing.
#protection
smoky wave
regal island
^ agreed
the 1.3 kinda sucks
bringing back the 20-60 rage would be nice
with max IP with say 1.5 or 2x the 60 rage IP
But 1.3max of the 40 rage version is meh
It's like you want to spend rage to buff your IP, but due to str procs etc, you cant really see your IP max value so you clip the hell out of it.
raven kernel
prot is fine, buffs are welcome but anyone doomsaying prot is a complete scrub
regal island
so you spend 40 rage, waste a gcd and your IP actually is lower now.
I thought blizz said spec's wouldn't "REQUIRE" addons in order to play properly.
cinder nova
They don't
You don't need to know your IP value, it's more of a buffer now than ever
Knowing it helps
But is far from required
prisma crane
@keen pasture since you're asking the question you're likely not raiding at a high enough level for the class to remotely matter, play what you enjoy
regal island
Now if they added a mechanic that it refunded rage if your capping your IP that would be useful.
cinder nova
That would hurt us
regal island
yeah, dump, refund, dump
cinder nova
They won't do that
vivid charm
do i need the boots aswell if i got Shield for two set bonus? 😃
regal island
The spec works but IP is a waiste of a spender
prisma crane
they just need an additional rage dump imo
cinder nova
You can use it to space blocks
regal island
Or combine IP and revenge
prisma crane
gimme back execute
cinder nova
Eh execute isn't what we need
prisma crane
dont say HS, i'm not a fan of HS
cinder nova
IP needs to be more intuitive, yes
prisma crane
it's just a boring modifier
cinder nova
But so do a lot of things
regal island
a HS but defensive and cast IP off gcd would be nice
prisma crane
im not saying to touch IP
keen pasture
@prisma crane Yes it's sure but I need clarification, for now I have no problem but we ask questions with my guide and we would have liked to be fixed
prisma crane
dont get me wrong, it feels like shit, but w/e
what more clarification do you need? @keen pasture
ask us what you're doing wrong, not if prot is the spec to go
regal island
like i get all the tanks have their "self healing on a gcd (fenzied regen, pally healz, etc) but IP being a rage spender and capping at 1.3 feels meh
maybe if the cap was higher.
prisma crane
cap higher is pointless
cinder nova
The cap could afford a raise, I think
vivid sage
i get a 23.5k shield for 40 rage at no cd
prisma crane
you wont cast it often enough to need that on anything relevant
regal island
well refreshing it just waistes the cast too often imo.
without a WA tracker it's a pain
prisma crane
but you wont be refreshing it on relevant content
it'll get used up
you're too concerned about IP performance on trivial content
prisma crane
of course i'd love for better rage dumps, i think we could use it, but IP isnt the answer anymore
raven kernel
if you're overcapping your IP real often, then the content is trivial
keen pasture
@prisma crane With my guild we cleaned Antorus after the squish, and the heal had a hard time holding me, can I give you the logs if you're interested ?! And since we have a lot of doubt to uldir with the war tank
prisma crane
mythic or heroic?
keen pasture
HM
vivid sage
heromythic
regal island
well antorus wasn't properly tuned, at all
prisma crane
then it's how you play, class doesnt matter in heroic
regal island
not for the squish that is**
prisma crane
and basing assumptions around pre-patch old raids is pointless at best
how are you doing in m0s now?
grim prism
@keen pasture prot is going to be 100% fine in Uldir
regal island
m0 were cake at 300, upto to pull everything and chain pull at 338
rain dune
M0 is pretty smooth and I haven't run into any problems
prisma crane
tbh, class doesnt matter in mythic either, unless you're in the running for world top w/e rank
grim prism
If you have a prot war who keeps dying in ilvl-appropriate content, it is because they are doing something wrong
prisma crane
we can look at logs though if you like
grim prism
^
prisma crane
but what's likely happening is you're doing what we all do/did
overusing SB
trying to overuse IP
not using CDs often enough (though Legion got me super used to that)
regal island
Only stuff that's deadly are "high" magic damage, like that Zul chick before last boss in kings rest
regal island
i have to burn every cd to stay up
vivid sage
we lusted
regal island
and even then i die
raven kernel
horde lul
grim prism
For the sake of semantics, you cant really "overuse" SB but you can definitely waste it by pressing it at the wrong time
raven kernel
my group was already well geared by the time we did kings rest
no issue at all
(alliance)
vivid sage
pretty sure they hotfixed it as well
prisma crane
with these stupid GCDs changes we get to live with, our rotation is much more of a "rotation" now than a spam fest, figuring out what order to use abilities given certain situations, basically... practice
vivid sage
i have no issues other than maybe IP going off GCD would be nice
grim prism
Yeah its fun
raven kernel
vdh almost as boring as bear
prisma crane
if IP was off GCD people would be actually overcapping on relevant content as well as not have enough rage for SB
ember arrow
Im enjoying bdk in bfa more
regal island
Yeah i love prot, but it feels really GCD locked already. More haste will honestly just make it worse with our rage gen.
ember arrow
Warr alt
prisma crane
but haste lowers GCD....
regal island
or maybe prot warrior should be sitting at 100 rage?
prisma crane
haste makes it better
grim prism
I like that tanking requires more than just pressing tclap and standing there without dying for 30 sec at a time
raven kernel
as prot, if im sitting on high haste it means im safe
so its a "good" thing
high rage i mean
safe perch
kin rest is hard for prots
regal island
nah use traps
safe perch
king rest trash*
regal island
focus berserkers
vivid sage
feels bad when i'm avatar tclap - revenge - tcap - revenge on easy content but i keep getting revenge procs so i cant get rid of my rage
regal island
and it's cake
grim prism
Yeah I'm never gonna say haste is bad, even if we already have buckets of rage gen. Keep in mind that high haste means you spend it faster too
regal island
yeah revenge procs lead me to rage cap a lot
sick sentinel
love rage all rage.
regal island
but do what with it?
elfin lintel
Which rotation you guys use?
sick sentinel
better to have too much rage/all the rage than no rage.
raven kernel
well SB is OGCD so dump rage there
vivid sage
but it also feels good because i'm the highest dps by 2x the next lowest
sick sentinel
- lower GCD to make IP less shitty.
raven kernel
and just use 1 IP inbetween
vivid sage
and lose that revenge GCD sweet sweet dps
regal island
Like i'll spend rage on IP then wana cast another and relize on wait it's pointless
vivid sage
no way
elfin lintel
I'm being ripped in heroics with 309 ilvl
sick sentinel
smh how
regal island
chilling at 100 rage 90% life and top dps on a trash pull of 6 mobs
sick sentinel
I tanked mythics 297 np.
grim prism
You are probably using your defensive abilities wrong @elfin lintel
sick sentinel
fine tune your rotation/ability usage and waste no GCD.
elfin lintel
Tanked mythic with 297 ilvl?
astral notch
And pray for a better shield
grim prism
anger management and bolster gives you a lot more flexibility in your defensive CDs and lets you use last stand to autoblock on huge pulls
Are you using that build?
sick sentinel
1/2/2/3/2/1/1
elfin lintel
Could you guys give me some feedback of rotation and defensive abilities? I'm new in tanking
Yes I use
sick sentinel
sometimes 2/2/2/3/2/1/1 or 1/1/2/3/2/1/1
grim prism
You need to use shield block as your primary source of mitigation on melee packs (read as: most trash) and use ignore pain to supplement that
Demoralizing shout should get used A LOT with anger management
Like basically every pull, sometimes multiple times per pull
keen pasture
Ok thx all for clarification, it's pretty cool !
elfin lintel
IP I use a lot, sb I miss a little
grim prism
Blocking with SB and last stand will absorb way more damage than IP will
sick sentinel
mindful not to SB if you're using bolster LS.
grim prism
IP supplements blocking, not the other way around
elfin lintel
I should waste the 2 sb?
sick sentinel
how is it a waste...?
elfin lintel
I use bolster
grim prism
I like to lead with demoralizing shout and then use SB when that wears off (or if intake is still high)
vivid charm
Do i need the boots aswell if have the shield for 2 set? 😃 or can i skip that
elfin lintel
That I not use, only after LS fades
grim prism
Yes
sick sentinel
skip it imo @vivid charm thats my plan.
rather have haste/vers or vers/mastery boots.
vivid charm
alright thanks @sick sentinel
sick sentinel
watching AH for a WF/TF Oswain's personally.
grim prism
Dont be afraid to pop a shield wall if you need it, the 4m cooldown looks long as fuck but it really isnt if youre running anger management
regal island
same
elfin lintel
Yes and about stats? I focus stamina, strength, haste
grim prism
Its probably more like 2.5m
sick sentinel
cus otherwise its a very minor upgrade over my 325 Riot Shield.
grim prism
Ilvl over all, prioritize haste on sidegrades
(Not 100% of cases, but definitelt most)
abstract adder
Ilvl over traits too?
sick sentinel
yes. except deafening crash.
elfin lintel
It's is what a choose, haste
regal island
i prefer stormbolt as well over the shockwave cdr
sick sentinel
unless its 25+ ilvl upgrade.
regal island
soo many runners, or casters the extra interupt/stun is more useful.
sick sentinel
I swap stormbolt or shockwave depending on content. I run with a BM hunter and rogue in my mythic squad though, so I use shockwave/rumbling mainly.
grim prism
Also @elfin lintel focus on getting a good shield drop ASAP if you dont already have one
It helps a loooooot
elfin lintel
The casters is pain
regal island
a 330 will carry you through m0's
elfin lintel
My is 297 I think
uneven mason
If you're having trouble with casters train your DPS not to HERRRRRRRPPPPPP immediately and let you LOS that shit back
sick sentinel
I just tell my DPS to kill casters first. rest is cake.
uneven mason
Almost all dungeons have solid LOS peekaboo lines
sick sentinel
literally only mobs of all mythic+0 content for me a concern are ticks in Underrot or Berserkers kings rest(which we just kill first anyway).
rest is easy.
grim prism
Dont forget, kiting saves lives
sick sentinel
and yeah. just pull heroic throw group, LOS them all to you. if a communicative pug/premade group, they know to wait.
sick sentinel
hunter/warlock/rogue my standard group. very balanced. kill all the things easy.
holy priest.
uneven mason
Frost mages for when you want to pull like a man, but run like a girl
grim prism
I run with a disc arena healer... we need mana after every goddamn pull but he sure does a lot of damage on bosses
grim prism
It doesnt help that I pull like a mongoloid when i play with irl friends
grim prism
Not as prot war
uneven mason
other war in my party was like "Why are you pulling that much OMFG" and I'm like "Arms + Prot IT"LL DIE BEFORE MY CDS WEAR OFF!!"
elfin lintel
I pull pack a pack
grim prism
Typo, I meant I'LL die before my CDs wear off
uneven mason
Prot warrior, not DK
even Ironhull in Shrine they're like "You should kite him when he gets big" - Nah, I'll just use block.
tickles
Apparently their DH tank last week had tried to "tank him like a boss" and got 2shot
solid sun
I can handle him as Brew without kiting as well
regal island
yeah SB trivializes any big physical damage hit
potent peak
can you block his cleave?
grim prism
If it's blockable. Lol
@ Helbrute not 
I got yelled at for taking too much damage on the first boss of underrot
Didnt realize she was almost entirely shadow damage
Oops
That was a separate thought btw
regal island
a lot of unlockable stuff in uldir though..... like every boss ability is not blockable
grim prism
I'll be really interested to see how Uldir feels. I haven't raid tanked since NH
Although I'm guildless so it'll probably just be heroic pug spam for me
Hopefully they jam out world firsts quickly so I can actually raid mythic
solid sun
Pug mythic?
grim prism
Yeah
regal island
can usually pug first 3 bosses ez
grim prism
It'll be xrealm puggable after alli and horde both have a world first (or some other arbitrary factor)
I honestly wasnt planning on raiding at all, but ive been enjoying wow more than i thought i would
Just got the mythic burnout and had to take a break lol
solid sun
I honestly can't imagine trying to pug mythic raids at all. I find it troublesome just to find people in pugs who can handle heroic raids =X
junior ivy
as a prot warrior how do i reforge azerite gear?
grim prism
But I also dont want to get made fun of in three months for being the only channel regular who hasnt run mythic lol
@junior ivy there should be an "azerite reforger" somewhere in your home city if im not mistaken
cosmic cargo
it's next to the transmog dude @junior ivy
grim prism
^
junior ivy
thanks
azerite gear is so confusing
trying to keep trakc of best outer and middle traits for 3 different gear sets
grim prism
At least it has some actual choices involved, unlike artifact traits
junior ivy
having to check the traits in all specs
and trying to make a decision
am i doing it wrong
lol
it seems like so confusing
grim prism
Probably not
grim prism
You've been here long enough to make good choices lol
cosmic cargo
except playing a gnome
deft sierra
Is Devastator taken over Booming Voice for M?
cosmic cargo
that's never a good choice
deft sierra
cool ta
grim prism
Shorter cooldown on BV is going to be almost required in high end content
uneven mason
More expressive answer is ⛔ 😡 💢 Devastator 🖕
junior ivy
what i want is an addon that will tell me waht traits for fury AND prot, any given azerite gear has as options
withouyt having to change spec
does that exist?
grim prism
Like which traits you are supposed to pick?
solid sun
How is the warrior army doing so far this expansion, @uneven mason
junior ivy
so i can immediately see if something sucks for fuyr but is good for prot
timid jay
shift right click on the gear piece and you can see them all
grim prism
Im sure someone made a spreadsheet
junior ivy
or vice versa
timid jay
Or what
grim prism
Yeah you can see every trait on it when you open it
uneven mason
Hardly had time to get one fleshed out Rhino, only my 2 mains are capped and I haven't geared one of em
grim prism
The others are just greyed out
junior ivy
you can only see every trait for one spec
dont you gotta change specs to see the others?
or are the greyed out ones the dps traits?
if so, my life is changed
candid cove
No. You can see them. You just can’t pick them
junior ivy
wow
grim prism
Lol
grim prism
Yeah you can see them all, you can only pick the general and prot traits
uneven mason
Only doing mythic raiding on one side anyway this Xpac.
candid cove
Just like on my brew it shows WW and MW on the ring. And it’s funny how 90% of generic traits are garbage.
grim prism
Only on the outer ring
solid sun
My guild asked me to go Brew first to "ensure it's ready" so I haven't done hardly anything on my war yet @uneven mason
candid cove
Same. Got a brew ready for the inevitable jk mythic spell damage boss have fun prot war.
junior ivy
ok im no longer confused
solid sun
Did you prot the whole way @grim prism
raven kernel
uh
grim prism
Yeah for sure
uneven mason
Well, Prot deals with tank buster magic damage better
But we're REALLY not that grand vs regular spammy magic damage
junior ivy
ok one more question about azerite traits
uneven mason
but, most tanks arn't
Thus far I've found it really easy to survive being stupid in dungeons as prot
junior ivy
for fury, it seems like there are totally different BIS traits for ST and AOE. which should i focus on? i might be dpsing in raids, but i might do m+s too. is ST priority and then make an AOE set?
solid sun
Magic damage is to be mitigated by dps - the faster you kill the thing that's doing the magic damage, the less magic damage it does
uneven mason
Like I'll truck up and start tanking a mob that has one of those 'run away" mechanics, and just endup eating the damage until the healer is like RUN ALREADY!
candid cove
I think it’ll come down to dungeon and group setup @junior ivy
Time to horde azerite gear
grim prism
I would focus on single-target, personally. Fury will always have good cleave. If you run a lot of m+ you'll make better use of the cleave traits, but even then you'll want ST on bosses.
But yeah
There is no one size fits all answer
It really depends on what you run and who you run it with
You cant switch sets mid-m+ anymore either so idk how much mileage you would get out of two sets
But im not going to dissuade you from hoarding gear. It cant possibky hurt
solid sun
Maybe ST set for tyrannical weeks and AoE for not, or something along those lines
wild atlas
So for someone who wants to push logs, what trinket lineup should I aim for? I am shooting for a Briny Barnacle, Jes’ Howler, Fathoms and Emblem. So we have any way to even sim Prot DPS?
grim prism
I dont think there is a working APL
cosmic cargo
briny + fathoms is probably best ST
grim prism
It is definitelt possible to sim prot DPS
cosmic cargo
it's not just the apl
grim prism
I havent done it though
cosmic cargo
the whole backend of it is not implemented afaik
grim prism
Is is still borked?
cosmic cargo
look at sims for other tanks and make educated guesses @wild atlas
would be my suggestion
grim prism
I know in legion they had a ton of shit that wasnt working properly and giving invalid results
I should clarify that "it is possible" just means that there is no INHERENT reason that you cant accurately sim a tank for dps. Still very possinle that the tools for us are broken
cosmic cargo
even when implemented in legion warr sims were quite iffy
candid cove
Waiting for that banana world quest.
uneven mason
Balsaq there is no purpose to simming prot DPS because we don't function like a normal DPS class 😛
cosmic cargo
yeah it's possible, it's just not set up atm
there is, mostly for trinket selection
uneven mason
We can sim the rotation and such, but some of our DPS relies on actively tanking, thus has variables
wild atlas
Thanks @cosmic cargo . I know our talent lineup doesn’t make for a simple sim process but I just wanted to check. I know Briny Barnacle sims with Fathoms as top for Prot Paladin. But I know it’s not apples to apples
regal island
Yeah a lot of guilds picked up Brew as MT idk why. 33% of 85% ish stagger = 28% gets staggered on a boss BAMF spell hit. But prot warrior just uses demo shout and IP so 8% less that doesn't get staggered and would be blocked by IP anyways.
cosmic cargo
rage no longer scales with damage taken but it's flat per hit so it's a lot easier in theory to sim prot dps than in legion
grim prism
People just like to have FotM tanks
I cant blame them, its easier to replace a DPS than a tank
prisma crane
it's a lot harder to fuck up on a monk than it is on a warrior
grim prism
Doesnt mean they are correct
Thats true, prot war has a reasonably high skill floor compared to some other tanks
regal island
yeah i suppose some tardo prot warrior burning demo and sitting at 0 rage as boss does it's WTF PWN ability.
grim prism
You cant just mindlessly spongetank and get hardcarried by healers
If you fuck up mitigation, you will pay heavily
prisma crane
it's a fundamental difference between proactive and reactive tanks, one is inherently more difficult
solid sun
That is honestly oversimplifying it, Helbrute. Or maybe just exaggerating it.
grim prism
But the flipside of that is the highest-mitigating tank in the game on paper
solid sun
I'm not the worst player in the world. I make mistakes while playing any class. When I mess up on my monk it doesn't matter. When I mess up on my prot warrior it matters a lot.
prisma crane
thing is though, it's the real world, people dont play perfect, so from a progression standpoint, it can be more difficult with a prot
grim prism
And to be fair
prisma crane
i know i fuck up, but if i do, i probably die, if they do, they probably waste healer CDs
grim prism
Ive seen a LOT of bad prot warriors
ember arrow
too bad 99% of wipes arent tank's fault
grim prism
Lol
regal island
Like i remember screwing up on prot on vari a lot because i'd SB thinking his hit was about to come then he'd be like yolo nvm gonna cast really quick then hit you.
ember arrow
it was really easy
he casts it after the dps thing
where he turned around
same way argus delays scythe after his aoe
regal island
but aside from that on bosses i always have a SB charge ready to use
ember arrow
also his hit was no blockable
uneven mason
SB lasts longer than his cast 🤔 shouldn't have been a problem
ember arrow
of vari
grim prism
Bosses that surprise-cast or cast while phasing
regal island
yeah i'm just talking about the mecnahics for the learning curve.
grim prism
Can suck a fatty
regal island
what makes me stick with prot warrior tbh is the mobility intervene & leap
prisma crane
prot just takes practice
uneven mason
Surprise casts are when the ability comes off of CD, has a 0.5s cast
prisma crane
monks are better mobility
regal island
monks don't shield another player when they move.
uneven mason
and the boss decides to do 5 other things before using it and makes you burn your NF at Stack #12 ><
grim prism
Like ones that phase on % and you arent at exactly the same point in the pull when you hit that. Trilliax for instance (old reference but i didnt raid past 7.2 sooo)
regal island
or have insane movment tricks like intervene a player thats clicking a warlock gate
60 yards
prisma crane
and warriors don't aoe grip, we can compare different core abilities all day
solid sun
There's no reason to have a dick measuring contest between warriors vs other tanks in the prot warrior discord, lmao
rotund citrus
I feel like taking IP off of the GCD again, would help a ton. What I don't get, is if Warrior's class fantasy is to mitigate damage, since we really can't heal outside of Victory Rush... why do we not have 100% uptime on Mitigation?
regal island
Only thinking i dislike is the only blocking attacks from the front.
uneven mason
0_o
grim prism
@rotund citrus its pretty goddamn close to 100% honestly
regal island
especially with stuff like say freehold where they toss you around if you don't move perfectly
prisma crane
im jsut saying, there are classes that do things better, we win at blocking and raw dmg mitigation
uneven mason
They bring back Relic/ranged slots
prisma crane
we also win at burst magic dmg
uneven mason
Prot warriors get to equip a shield, you hold it with your asscheeks
rotund citrus
@grim prism It's close to 100% only when you include big CD's.
grim prism
Which is important
Because a few big CDs can be considered rotational with anger management
solid sun
That's a core portion of using AM, amigo
uneven mason
I have 100% effective uptime on mitigation
regal island
yeah but i mean say someone is swining a sword at your back, my torso rotates about 270* and my arm reach is more that enough to cover behind me
uneven mason
Its like
rotund citrus
That's true, but still. It just feels bad compared to other tanks.
ember arrow
dk AM is on gcd
prisma crane
if we're gonna go that route Hel, you'd lose balance and likely break your arm in that shit position
grim prism
I like it better personally
ember arrow
secondary metigation is aswell
uneven mason
you take a full swing standing like that you're ass is falling over.
grim prism
More risk, more reward
regal island
beats a sword in the back.
uneven mason
facing your opponent also beats a sword in the back
prisma crane
yea, it'll be in your ass while you're on the ground instead lmao
rotund citrus
Honestly, my main complaint with Prot at this point is pulling trash without using Avatar, and starting at 0 rage.
I pull, demo, block, thunderclap, but if Thunderclap doesn't pick up the mobs, and I don't have a revenge proc. How do I even stop the mobs from running towards my fragile DPS? Spend valuable rage on Revenge? 😡
grim prism
Tclap before demo or immediately after. You dont have time to wait three globals
uneven mason
0_o
abstract adder
@uneven mason I’m a noob. How do@you have 100% uptime@on mitigation
grim prism
Your DPS will be pulling hella threat for that 4.5 sec
rotund citrus
Demo>Block>Thunder clap is 2 globals
uneven mason
Effective uptime != uptime
rotund citrus
Block is off the GCD
grim prism
U rite
regal island
just bind a macro to mousewheel /walk /click actionbar0 "W" /run then roll it back
grim prism
My bad
rotund citrus
Its ok.
wild atlas
I hate that intercept is on GCD. Idk why it bothers me so much but it does
solid sun
You could just Tclap before the Demo, especially if you start the pull with SB
grim prism
But yeah, with no rev proc, you just have to tab target for slams and use your taunt both smartly and immediately
uneven mason
Well Beefnudle we have a lot of cooldowns to use rotationally, that are fairly short
If you endup with a gap in your mitigation uptime, its going to be because an error was made, or you had to stack some.
grim prism
May be worth spending to rev before block to make sure you get aggro while you still have rage to correct it
rotund citrus
All I'm saying, is that BrM and Prot Pally both have AoE's that follow them and do ticking damage, which constantly generate aggro at the start of a pull 😂 Once we're 4-8 seconds into a pull, it's not a problem at all. Except in (I think Freehold?) when the mobs randomly lose all aggro and attack a DPS. Those are a pain to pick back up.
uneven mason
I have yet ot have issues with AE threat
I'm not sure why folks are being challenged with this
regal island
i just tell my dps to not pop cd's until you see a skull go up and i bind setting skull on target to "x" never have agro issues
wild atlas
They did fix that @rotund citrus
grim prism
True, but we do more raw damage and ideally mitigate more incoming damage as well
amber siren
We're the strongest aoe dps tank rn, dunno what the issue is 🤷
uneven mason
Yeah they did fix those
rotund citrus
@wild atlas I haven't tanked it since it was fixed then. 😂
I thought that was an intentional mechanic. Lol
grim prism
It just requires more focus. Like i said, higher risk, higher reward
uneven mason
Yeah its still annoying (they throw you around) but they no longer wipe threat
green forge
@rotund citrus those mobs don't lose aggro anymore fyi that was a glitch
wild atlas
@rotund citrus same 😂
green forge
the ones that toss you
uneven mason
I think it was inteded heh
grim prism
I get what youre saying though
uneven mason
but it was making them a bit too hard
rotund citrus
It was intended, but backlash was too much so "Oh, it's a glitch."
green forge
either way they're not dropping aggro anymore
uneven mason
Like I had no issues clearing them
regal island
idk feels like as prot i have two useless abilities on my bar "devastate" which just fishes for SS procs and IP, which is good but doesn't feel like it should cost a gcd.
uneven mason
but when I went in as arms once, the DK with us couldn't stay near to them long enough to build aggro
IP is not usless
regal island
maybe give IP a short CD and make it burn upto 100 rage for a bigger shield or something.
rotund citrus
I HATE casting Devastate.
green forge
they just need to remove the GCD off IP and prot will feel fine
uneven mason
holy shit its not useless, just because you can't give yourself an absorb for 75% of your health and stop 90% of damage all the time, doesn't make the new version "useless"
rotund citrus
^
regal island
like if IP was a 6-10 sec cd and used upto 100 rage i'd love it.
grim prism
I feel like dev gets pressed infrequently enough that it's not a bad button anymore
uneven mason
I think that would be horrible
green forge
I barely use dev
rotund citrus
Some speculation I saw, said that people think that BLizz is gonna remove IP entirely, they just couldn't find a good replacement for it in time for BFA launch.
uneven mason
IP right now - is actually really solid
grim prism
It's not like it's 7.0 when you would ignore rev and tclap to fish for procs
uneven mason
That would be the general assumption Mith
grim prism
Its maybe 1 out of 10 presses
green forge
yeah they did remove it then put it back when they had no idea wtf they were doing
abstract adder
@uneven mason can you give me a rundown of the tanking rotation so I don’t get demolished like soggy toilet paper
rotund citrus
I know, but what did they replace it with in the beta? Nothing?
uneven mason
Rotation?
grim prism
@abstract adder its in the pinned guide
Rotation priority as well as best uses of cooldowns
amber siren
bolster was originally an armour increase talent instead of the iteration it is now
like a spender
uneven mason
Yeah, I hated that bolster
green forge
yeah I hated that
uneven mason
Warriors had nothing for magic
regal island
yeah iron fur wana be
grim prism
had
uneven mason
we were in a bad spot vs anything that wasn't flat out raw physical damage at that point in beta
IP gives us a nice 50% DR vs magic 😉
grim prism
For all the shit-talking I see about IP, people sure do like to glaze over the fact that SR used to be good
regal island
I mean now it's pretty much demo, wall and IP
grim prism
🇫
regal island
yeah spellreflect is still nice, doesnt do shit against Zul chick but it's helpful
grim prism
At least they outright killed heroic strike instead of turning it into an empty shell of what it used to be
rotund citrus
Think part of the problem Blizzard has is that Prot's cooldowns are so strong, that if they made the rotation easier, and gave you 100% uptime on Mitigation, it'd be too strong, with cooldowns like Shield wall, Last Stand, and Rallying Cry? (Yes, yes, I know "100% effective uptime").
I literally feel invulnerable during SHield Wall
regal island
WTB heroic strike ignore pain.
uneven mason
So I'ma just say, I really like how prot plays right now
IP on the GCD and everything
green forge
I like it aside from the IP GCD
uneven mason
the only thing that has THUS FAR triggered me on the GCD was Rallying Cry
grim prism
The problem is that blizzard has no fucking idea how to balance their games, lets be real
regal island
I'm ok with GCD but not for a 1.3 max IP
solid sun
That's not the value of IP, dude
fluid jacinth
can anyone recommend an addon that helps with knowing who you have aggro with (and not)
solid sun
The value of IP is found in Anger Management
uneven mason
IP stacking more will NOT improve the absorb.
rotund citrus
@fluid jacinth Is your HP going down, and your DPS aren't screaming at you to taunt? You have aggro.
grim prism
Lol
solid sun
And then the 50% dr
kind prairie
@fluid jacinth I use threat plates
rotund citrus
The addon is Discord Voice with your DPS.
grim prism
People like Omen
tardy jolt
@fluid jacinth KUI nameplates
green forge
@fluid jacinth KUI nameplates
grim prism
But honestly
regal island
It improves the duration of the absorb
uneven mason
If you have a 20,000IP and get hit for 20,000 you take 10,000damage and absorb 10,000damage
If you have a 50,000 IP and get hit for 20,000, you take 10,000damage and absorb 10,000damage
grim prism
Stock UI is totally fine imo... tells you exact threat % and enemy bars flash yellow if you are losing aggro
regal island
yeah i'm talking about the other hits during the 12 sec
solid sun
Try Plater for nameplates. Wowsers great addon
regal island
20k IP works great for the first 2 hits, the 50k IP works great for the 5 hits.
uneven mason
So, here is another thing (since our abilities are not in a vacuum
rotund citrus
I still use ElvUI, and once you know what bars look like when you have aggro, it works fine.
regal island
But were forced to use the GCD later to use the rage we have now
uneven mason
Using IP frequently, cycles AM
fiery pendant
Getting triggered by a numpty on r/wow saying warriors are the worst tanks for aoe threat
Why do I even respond there 😡
uneven mason
each IP cast, is 4 seconds off of Avatar, Demo Shout, Shield wall and Last Stand
stark sage
IP having a higher max really just means you press it less often when dealing with low damage intake
fluid jacinth
will kui nameplates work with elvui?
wanton sentinel
Yes
wheat bronze
ElvUI uses KUI nameplates, doesn't it?
uneven mason
And during higher damage intake you're going to be pressing it more often to cycle your CDs anyway.
little star
you need to disable elvui nameplates tho if u wanna use kui
uneven mason
IP is in a solid spot, warriors feel great.
kind prairie
^
little star
Ip either gets consumed really fast or not at all i find
kind prairie
I've been tanking mythics since about 308 ilvl. It's been a blast.
uneven mason
That is the 2 situations we just mentioned
fiery pendant
It’s doing its job if it’s getting consumed
fiery pendant
Bringing your cds up faster and reducing damage intake l
uneven mason
"taking low damage" - IP isn't cast very often anyway, Taking a lot of damage - going to cast IP again anyway.
little star
yep its in a good spot tho
jagged bay
azerite tooltip is a nice addon to see azerite gear info
uneven mason
amazingly its like prot is designed to become stronger when taking more damage 😉
grim prism
@fiery pendant going on r/wow for more than just making fun of those braindead shitters is a lost cause
They're like forum posters with less decorum
uneven mason
if only they'd make the absorb increase on IP for how low our HP are.
rotund citrus
^ I thought that was funny. So far with Avatar up, Prot's AoE DPS is the highest I've seen any tank get. I haven't even had a Veng DH beat Avatar Prot DPS.
@uneven mason I thought they did have an absorb increase on IP for how low HP was, and I also thought that talent was trash? 🤔
fiery pendant
I shudder to imagine how shit the warrior tank they experienced if that’s their opinion
Never surrender?
Lol
uneven mason
Sense had an apples to apples comparing VDH and his Warrior same pull, same packs, warrior had lower Ilvl, warrior was doing a solid 4k above the VDH heh
So, I said increase the absorb, not increase the volume of
kind prairie
I hit 50k for about 4 seconds at the part with the giant snake eye puzzel.
Finally tapered down to 20k by the end.
uneven mason
So, Neversurrender, if it increased the absorb % Of IP, (among other reasons why its mechanically garbage)
grim prism
Pad Palace
uneven mason
Might actually be competitive
like say, cap it at 20% remaining health, 300% volume, 90% absorb, scaling to 0 bonus at 90% health.
fiery pendant
‘Only good things about the spec are demo shout and shockwave’
uneven mason
So if you drop REALLY LOW
fiery pendant
I’m getting off Reddit today holy shit
uneven mason
IP will actually save you
fiery pendant
That’s a cool idea but is it not a bit strong?
wanton sentinel
s/today/forever
uneven mason
Ever since they enabled "flair" for posts rather than just deleting all the shitposts, r/wow has been nothing but a treasure trove of hershey squirts and wet farts.
grim prism
r/wow is a cesspool of whining and incompetence
fiery pendant
Get the occasional useful post like that one about cooking
uneven mason
Rehbero that idea would be competing with Bolster
uneven mason
So no, it wouldn't be too strong hah
grim prism
it is literally just the worst part of the forums, with no moderators
uneven mason
It would trade a solid corner stone of your 100% uptime with an actually very strong Mitigation tool
fiery pendant
Be super good on magic fights too
uneven mason
^^^
grim prism
I wouldnt say its a great resource lol
fiery pendant
Yeah, if they want to keep it a threat then IP can’t be too good
regal island
Yeah what i'm saying is IP caps at 50% DR anyways, so why not let us stack it higher than 1.3x??? All it does it give us more flexability with our gcd usage. Instead of having to space out IP to prevent caping it on a double IP cast. I need to weave it into other gcd's when i'd much rather just double IP if/when i can then SS etc or fish for SS procs.
uneven mason
If you're having to space out IP uses it doesn't matter anyway
if you're running out of a shield you're going to need to burn your rage faster anyway
to get your bigger CDs up
regal island
what's the point of the 1.3x cap though? i maxes at 50% anyways?
uneven mason
Thus - giving IP a greater "volume" of absorb is inconsequential
To stop folks from spamming it and building up a big shield prior to pull.
uneven mason
Its also part of intelligent gameplay
grim prism
If youre looking at one big hit that would overwhelm IP and start chunking into health, then yeah you could theoretically cheese some stuff
grim prism
Well
grim prism
Cheese is overstating it, by a lot
uneven mason
Not really
grim prism
Just playing devil's advocate
regal island
eh not so much, it's focing us to space out IP over time and prevents a reactive gameplay which is what we're all about
grim prism
I would not describe us as reactive
uneven mason
If there was a cheesy center of the universe named "reactive gameplay" Protection is on the planet farthest from.
fiery pendant
We need to have set our shit up before it happens
Reactive is prot pally or bdk
Healing after the fact
Maybe less prot pally actually with new sotr
abstract adder
When we use shield block. The blocked damage is based on your block % in your character stats?
grim prism
Yes
regal island
instead of IPx2 then having a free gcd sometime in the next 12 seconds. I have to IP, use that gcd, then IP again once first ip diminishes to 30%, preventing me from using that gcd on say a life saving intervene
grim prism
Crit blocks double that %
uneven mason
I've never run into that situation you just described.
fiery pendant
In theory it could happen
uneven mason
Again - the stack cap on IP, is to avoid just that, double stacking so you don't have to spend GCDs on it
fiery pendant
But it’s very niche
regal island
or prespending IP rage to get demo shout back faster
uneven mason
They want you to keep IP up, thus - refreshing it too early, is wasting rage, not using it at all is taking more damage.
regal island
which is kinda the purpose of IP
uneven mason
Oh I'll double cast IP outside of combat before a boss
to finish my CDs
Or even before a pack, because my pull rotation is more than enough rage to get things rolling
but double casting IP during actual combat nearly never happens unless I am getting trucked.
kind prairie
Does crit finally do anything decent for us this xpac? I know in legion it gave a chance to party but it was abysmally low.
kind prairie
rip
uneven mason
it gives parry still
all in all, item level matters most for prot warriors
so don't shy from crit
kind prairie
Ha my typo says party .. I'm leaving it
Oh yeah totally. I just seem to have a lot of it.
kind prairie
I was almost 30% crit at times in legion cause of ilvl...
Over 35 at one point. Lol
wide juniper
That's solid dmg
grim prism
PrOt DoEsNt PuLl GoOd ThReAt
cosmic cargo
the only tank that could potentially have reason for complaints is bear
grim prism
Tbh I feel like it isn't common knowledge that threat is just a flat coefficient of damage done
cosmic cargo
in threat
uneven mason
Damage*3.5
strong forum
well the thing is, prot warri is the only tank that doesnt have proper passive dmg
cosmic cargo
it's times 4.5
strong forum
thats why i feel like some people have problems with it
grim prism
We dont need passive damage
uneven mason
Deep wounds ticks pretty hard for me Nommers
strong forum
no we dont
cosmic cargo
sice it's 350% extra
rotund citrus
I think the reason Blizzard nerfed threat generation in BFA, was because they buffed tank damage. So they realized it'd be insane to generate 10x more threat, while doing as much or more damage than DPS on AoE.
uneven mason
ah right Zeppe
regal island
yeah i'm generally top dps on trash barring dps poping their cd's (sometimes) if they are pulling threat your buddy is pulling your leg and taunting mobs.
grim prism
I also think they wanted it to take more effort to maintain aggro. Which again, I am 100% on board with
uneven mason
but more than it has since Cataclysm
cosmic cargo
I think the only potential issue with prot is you have many "dead" GCDs
uneven mason
^^
cosmic cargo
IP and demo shout
strong forum
but people seem to have problems with the lack of passive damage, every other tank has like proper dots / concecration, thus people are "weirded out " with prot aggro
uneven mason
Having DPS who blow their load the instant I charge = I let them die once
regal island
don't dots have reduced threat? made deep wounds seem kinda like a dumb design to me.
cosmic cargo
dead as in no threat
grim prism
I dont think so @regal island
rotund citrus
Honest question: Can Prot hold aggro when a geared arms warrior charges, warbreakers and bladestorms without waiting for tank to generate decent threat? 😂
tardy jolt
tbh if a rogue or hunter pulls aggro it is %100 their fault
regal island
well getting threat and pulling it off them are different.
if they pull agro getting it back off multiple mobs is much harder the initially establishing agro and them pulling it off us
wide juniper
It's my fav when they get aggro immediately and then don't slow down.
strong forum
yes mith, but you need demo and avatar
wide juniper
Let them die.
uneven mason
Most of the time Mith - yes.
you have to Avatar pre pull, Charge, TC - DS - TC - Rev - TC - Rev
regal island
just intervene them and shockwave
uneven mason
then Bladestorm is over
regal island
if they die they die
rotund citrus
Okay, I've been wondering if Avatar was to be cast pre-pull.....
uneven mason
Chances are
rotund citrus
Had a feeling it probably was...
strong forum
ye shockwave also helps
grim prism
@rotund citrus yep, just taunt
wide juniper
❤ shockwave
uneven mason
if you have a prot warrior with both BV and Avatar going, and a Arms warrior with Warbreaker + BS
strong forum
ye dude just taunt 
kind prairie
I really like having both shockwave and stormbolt
regal island
If they pull the non elites off me i consider that a you wanted it you got it.
rotund citrus
Lol, it's fun doing dungeons and taunt swapping off of the WW monk who Karma's the boss then taunts and does 18k ST damage 😂
uneven mason
the pack is dead before you get to the 7th GCD anyway
grim prism
@strong forum they didnt specify AoE 
rotund citrus
I know it's the fault of a group that sometimes isn't co-ordinated, but I try to save Avatar for the "Oh shoot" moments when some moron ranged pulls a full 2 extra packs, that way we can kill them before I run out of CD's and die.
So I don't usually use it pre-pull cause I wanna make sure I have it if things go south
rotund citrus
What's the effective CD on it, anyways?
grim prism
Yeah you can play pretty fast and loose with coolies
rotund citrus
60-70 sec or something?
uneven mason
45s
rotund citrus
Wait, what?
plucky ember
Does anyone know how well the Engineering goggle's azerite trait Relational Normalization Gizmo compares to our Prot traits? I can't seem to find much info on it compared to the other traits.
grim prism
I was gonna say 50-60
grim prism
Base 1.5m
rotund citrus
Guess I can't read
rotund citrus
I'm an Arms main...... sooooo 😂
uneven mason
erm both 1.5m
uneven mason
used to be 2min I think
rotund citrus
^
uneven mason
it shows 2m on the CD tooltip
rotund citrus
I WILL SNATCH VICTORY FROM THE JAWS OF DEFEAT!
uneven mason
because you know, showing countdown timers in seconds would be idiotic
grim prism
@plucky ember nope. But it is safe to assume that deafening crash and brace for impact would outperform it
I'd rather have more block/armor or more demo shout uptime than raw hitpoints or a haste proc anyday
rotund citrus
How well does Prot perform running Devastator anyways? I know it isn't optimal, but I just don't wanna push Devastate. 😂
uneven mason
Mith - It doesn't
rotund citrus
Rip.
uneven mason
ALso, if you're pressing devastate enough to be irrtated by ti
rotund citrus
Pressing it at all irritates me.
uneven mason
you have better things to use your GCDs on 😄
the difference between not pressing devastate at all
and using devastator
rotund citrus
They should at least make it generate some rage or something.
rotund citrus
Like give it 3 rage generated or SOMETHING. Make it do SOMETHING. 😂
kind prairie
It HaS a ChAnCe To ReSeT sHiElD sLaM
grim prism
Nailed it.
rotund citrus
"chance"
uneven mason
Its been like that since uh, Cataclysm
grim prism
AKA never when you need it
uneven mason
don't see it changing
kind prairie
Well you can press it and have a chance. Or not press it and way for shield slam.
plus I like the animation for it
uneven mason
Between SS, TC, Free Revs, IP, DS, Avatar - I press Devastate once every 10~ GCDs
I actually got really mad tho
cause I had to press it 2x in a row
twice
in the same dungeon
rotund citrus
Should submit a ticket.
kind prairie
LOL
rotund citrus
Poor class design.
severe steeple
uneven mason
Because I wasn't taking enough damage to warrent a refresh of IP
and revenge didn't proc free
I should've just spent the 30 rage on rev
gotten DS up faster
grim prism
Couldve had a V8
kind prairie
^
uneven mason
This look like a vegetarian bar to you?
kind prairie
I like warrior discord. Warlock one is mostly pepe memes
kind prairie
LOL
uneven mason
Thyme will show you how its done
uneven mason
But generally memeing in Skyhold
brings the wrath of Sal upon you
He's always watching
rotund citrus
I don't think I've ever even talked to Sal
royal marten
green forge
what you guys think of bloodsport trait?
seems like it would be good for magic damage
uneven mason
It has its uses
now if it increases IPs absorb per hit
than it would be pretty solid
uneven mason
but its just a volume increase
which
as I expalined at length earlier
is fairly meaningless
distant sleet
I feel like IP is kinda useless. mobs and bosses just burn through that so fast
green forge
yeah I understand how IP works just wanted to see what people thought of bloodsport and it sounds like the consensus is the same as what I was already thinking
uneven mason
IP performs both of its functions quite well Mako
kind prairie
So just so I understand this correctly. If you have 10k IP, it'll actually take 20k damage to eat it because half of that gets through to your HP?
uneven mason
right
kind prairie
Cool
uneven mason
So yeah, if you have a 10k IP (mine currently with 330 gear casts at 20.1k btw) and get hit for 20k, it'll consume all 10k
grim prism
That also means you take 10k damage in the process ofc
uneven mason
right
kind prairie
Nice
distant sleet
i might just got spoiled in legion
uneven mason
unless you have PWS on
kind prairie
Thanks!
uneven mason
Yes, many warriors did Mako
kind prairie
@distant sleet I got spoiled too.
uneven mason
This is more traditional prot tanking
green forge
Legion spoiled us all. we were unkillable gods.
distant sleet
tanking just seems so much harder now. Just did mythic freehold and I actually had to work like crazy to keep myself up
kind prairie
New IP was like, a fraction what it was in legion. I did 1M hps a lot of fights.
uneven mason
Tanking in general
is harder
as is healing
Performance matters
we're also at the start of content, rather than going into an undertuned raid
wide juniper
There are so many fewer tanks so far.
lucid kelp
Ignore pain feels kinda weak... but other than that I'm ok with the tanking changes
wide juniper
It's kinda nice that the herd thinned.
kind prairie
Performance vs spam
wide juniper
Yeah man
uneven mason
got like 100 runes already
grim prism
Oh i love it dude
uneven mason
they're going for 500g a shot
grim prism
Im gonna burn so many goddamn pug keys when m+ opens
wide juniper
WQs, Mythics, HEROICS
uneven mason
so that bag is like 1500 - 3000 gold for me each
wide juniper
My stupid shield and boots are holding me back.
uneven mason
Yeah
anyone else having trouble with shields?
Mythics will not cough up a table for me
wide juniper
I was spamming normals to get one....
uneven mason
FFFFFFFFFFFF
wide juniper
so I have a 310 shield right now
wide juniper
lol
uneven mason
arms war in the party lost his shit
wide juniper
Got some 355 gloves yesterday though 😮
wide juniper
w/ haste and mastery
kind prairie
I tanked the boss that spits green everywhere with a broken shield yesterday. Luckily my disc priest and enxhance shaman were spamming things on me.
Didn't even notice til I pulled.
wide juniper
F
kind prairie
It was mythic too. Finished at 3% hp
For some reason devastate doesn't work without a shield
sick sentinel
Did someone test DMD:Blockades again?
sick sentinel
Below 20% self heal still worse than any haste trinket
grim prism
But its definitely worth having now
hybrid basin
Icy Veins is calling it BiS right now
grim prism
If it's not on a prot-specific page written by people in this channel, I don't trust it
And even then, I double-check. Lol
vocal nimbus
For purely defensive purposes dmd is one of the strongest trinkets pre raid
kind prairie
I usually ask here, get told to read the pins by one person, and then another person gives me feedback.
grim prism
Did you read the pins tho
kind prairie
Which I do both. Take the feedback and then read the pins
I like feedback too. Pins are good, but people's experiences are better.
Pins to guides specifically***
hybrid basin
well, Icy Veins is on the pins and the trinket page on pins also says Blockades is BiS
undone sun
Why
kind prairie
Last expansion it had "don't use IP at full health cause youre wasting your healers hots and Mana"
undone sun
New writers
kind prairie
The entire expac
Ah
Didn't realize. Thanks Thyme.
It hurt my brain to read that in a popular guide.
"don't use IP at full hp"
grim prism
@hybrid basin it also clarifies that higher ilvl trinkets could be better defensively and that all tanking trinkets are fairly lackluster atm
But yeah, Macro wrote that and he is usually right. He isn't one to make guesses.
vocal nimbus
grim prism
So you can safely assume that it is a very solid tank trinket atm
hybrid basin
IV says +15 so I'm curious how high the trinkets have to roll to overtake Blockades
sick sentinel
Bygone Bee seems pretty op during avatar & demo combo
grim prism
Sounds like a pretty decent margin
I would imagine 20+ just based on the wording
But I have no actual data on that
exotic spoke
I’ve been using fathoms personally
grim prism
Guide says any tank trink at +15 can replace Howler, not Blockades, so I would think you would need to go even higher to replace Blockades
kind prairie
I saw you can use both trinkets??
exotic spoke
Didn’t bother with blockades yet
kind prairie
Fathoms and blockades?
undone sun
Yes
exotic spoke
Wait... you can?
kind prairie
I bet that'd be fun
grim prism
@kind prairie they are unique equipped, not restricted by being darkmoon trinks
sick sentinel
Fathoms not 50% damage for tanks?
exotic spoke
Holy fuck, brb, buying blockades
sick sentinel
Dont believe that
undone sun
Nope @sick sentinel
exotic spoke
It’s a huge stat stick
kind prairie
I might buy both when I get home.
Is it possible to change my nickname in this disc to match my toons name?
sick sentinel
for m+ Blockades & Bygone bee might be even better
grim prism
@kind prairie nope
vocal nimbus
You can ask marok
grim prism
You have to change your global name or beg an admin to do it
vocal nimbus
My name was changed
sick sentinel
16% AP increase
undone sun
Can ask any one of the valk as far as I know
exotic spoke
My trinkets are kinda meh right now so I’m thinking blockades and fathoms May be the way to go
trail jungle
Is it a bad idea to lvl as prot?
woeful reef
Not necessarily bad, but slower
lethal gulch
Really really slow, seriously, I tried
primal crypt