what secondary metigation does any dmg
#protection
opaque pagoda
our rage generation is worse, IP heal is way down, IP amount is way down
death strike
shield of the righteous
ember arrow
thats dk AM
pala AM
not secondary
dk dont even metigate the dmg in the first palce
if you want to compare IP to anything, its light of the protector, frenzied regen
wide forge
death strike not mitigation
opaque pagoda
I feel like I'm speaking a different language or living in a different world or something
wide forge
their boneshield thing is isnt it?
ember arrow
you heal for 25% of damage taken, so thats 25% damage reductio nessentially
frail lark
When taking what is the rage cost of ignore pain and vengeance? I'm lazy
opaque pagoda
if you can't tell that this shit sucks, then I'm not sure what I can say about it
it seems blatantly bad
ember arrow
boneshield is not active, its a buff you maintain regardless of situation
wide forge
its literally not the skill they have to hit to qualifiy as active mitigation
ember arrow
its like eye of the tiger on monk
but actualyl important
DS actually is active metigation
in a way that you msut time it
in the 5 sec window
after taking dmg
opaque pagoda
you can set up whatever arbitrary criteria you want
ember arrow
youre comparing apples to oranges already
wide forge
ok if you say so i never considered healing to be mitigation, mitigation is reducing dmg taken not healing after dmg was done
broken kite
i love prot discord
ember arrow
it heals for % of dmg taken ,thats essentially reducing the dmg
ember arrow
marrowrend is irrelevant fro mwhat happens
u maintain it at alltimes
if a level 100 mob or a m raidboss hits u
ember arrow
im maintaining the buff, im not metigating dmg actively
the armor bonus, and haste do it passively
wide forge
thats some twisted logic
opaque pagoda
apparently arguments only have relevance if you can narrowly compare the gameplay model to another class's
coral dew
Someone needs to answer my question about Brace for Impact before I pull a gun out and kill everyone here
wide forge
thats like saying shield block isnt actively mitigation, the increased block chance is
ember arrow
shield block is nothing like marrowrend
wide forge
of course not
ember arrow
block chace isnt armor buff
ember arrow
DS fills the role ofSB
not marrowrend
relying on amrrowrend to reduce dmg is like relying on IP to reduce dmg
its something thats there
not the primary thing
wide forge
i mean as long as the shield is big enough at 120 IP was reducing more dmg than SB was for me
tawny panther
Levko. Deathstrike is the runic dump. It's their version of IP. Or at least the closest to practicality in another class
ember arrow
its not a dump
its their active metigation
u only dump it if u cap, or if content istoo easy
tawny panther
No. It's not. By blizzards definition it is not.
wide forge
i think you are confusing your terms
ember arrow
so u use it whenever u got runic power?
wide forge
much like IP wasnt a dump at the start of legion
but it still was the way we dumped our rage
just cause its usefull doesnt mean its not a dump
opaque pagoda
if you have any kind of leech, it's probably literally better to press TC, SS or revenge
ember arrow
ye, try playign a m+ by dumping RP on DS whenever its available
tawny panther
Dump doesn't mean you spam into it asap
coral dew
I'm taking a rage dump right now tbh
wide forge
dump is simply the way you get rid of your resource
tawny panther
It's like he decides terms mean different things to suit him
round vortex
Lol Levko arguing with people who make sense again. Been there fellas - pointless
tawny panther
Well maybe SB is our dump of DK DS is their am lol. Maybe we are all wrong and he's just before his time
Artists are never appreciated in their lifetime
wide forge
i mean maybe were all saying the same thing with diferent meanings for words
tawny panther
The fact we all say the same thing just means we are wrong in the same way
wide forge
could death strike be considered AM sure if you wanna look at it that way, personally i dont think anything done after the fact should be viewed as mitigation the dmg that was done
tawny panther
Active mitigations a term defined by blizzard and mechanics so it would be odd usage within the confines of wow imo
wide forge
otherwise healers are the best dam mitigaters there are 😄
tawny panther
It is an active ability, mitigation is an arguable term it's active survival, but it doesn't mitiagte DMG. Just heals for increased ehp
But best to keep am to being the 1 ability since blizzard uses it to define mechanics
Well imo
wide forge
thats my thought process, though personally i think anything that reduces incoming dmg should count for their stupid mechanics
tawny panther
"engaging gameplay"
wide forge
i shouldnt have to press SB for a mechanic if i have shield wall up
tawny panther
I just think bolster should count at least
wide forge
considering it is SB lol
tawny panther
It's literally a block
broken kite
in b4 blizz makes a boss with an AM check on melee attacks "ever not AM'd attack increases attack speed by 50%" 👏
opaque pagoda
I want to play warrior in BfA but I just fucking can’t, this shit sucks too much
ember arrow
@round vortex "levko makes no sense, that was my contribution, i wont make any points"
wide forge
i wish i lvled all the other tanks in beta to check them out in heroic raid gear
tawny panther
I'm gonna play my warrior. Hitting people with a shield just doesn't get beaten
opaque pagoda
Pressing IP just to dump rage even though it’s worthless and prevents future rage generation is just undeniably awful
wide forge
i actually dont think IP is going to be completely worthless
opaque pagoda
You can barely even see it on your health bar
tawny panther
Cant get on with DK, paladin feels a bit wind chimey
wide forge
it still aborbs magic dmg from what i can tell which most other classes dont have any of
opaque pagoda
Paladin currently plays fine, similar to legion
tawny panther
Warrior is the best at dealing with spike magic damage I think
wide forge
definately
tawny panther
Shit at continuos still
wide forge
im not sure how war of all the tanks was the one choosen to be the best to deal with magic, from a lore sense im not buying it
tawny panther
I'm sure we'll see a good few changes in the first few balance passes. But I enjoy playing it so I'll be maining it
wide forge
i love the every other hit as TC
tawny panther
Probably have a monk and Pala too anyway
wide forge
i dont love IP being on GCD
tawny panther
Yeah there are parts that feel good
No other tank has the proper tank feeling to mr
broken kite
worst thing about prot atm is how bad IP feels to play imo
tawny panther
Considering they removed it etc I'm hoping it has major reworks . Feels like what we have is incomplete or a band aid
broken kite
im 90% sure BFA will involve prot with no meaningful spec changes
broken kite
90%
wide forge
i missed those days, i was a DH back then sadly
tawny panther
You're doing it backwards
wide forge
i know
tawny panther
👌
opaque pagoda
They didn’t finish Prot Warrior
They changed IP, got rid of it, then shrugged their shoulders and put it back in a useless for
Form
tawny panther
Just setting everyone up for an insane surprise of a huge rework and everyone loves IP in 8.05
wide forge
lol
broken kite
"barely anyone plays this spec anyway, they'll be fine until next expac"
wide forge
id be fine with it if they just took it back of GCD
somber dragon
you mean... they reworked the class to play differently based on different damage intake patterns in the next expansion and you aren't happy with how it plays and tell us every single day that we are fucking morons for not being as angry as you are about IP being on the GCD? 😄
opaque pagoda
I’m honestly fine with having to gear up my warrior again if they make it better between launch and some future point
tawny panther
Turn it back into blade Barrier. But this one deals damage when your hit with it up, off gcd. Big absorb
broken kite
blade barrier?
tawny panther
Just reusing the old ability namd
opaque pagoda
Every time I talk about it somebody says something dumb like “it’ll be better in BFA gear” which is patently fucking false
wide forge
no it'll still be right over 10% of your hp
opaque pagoda
Right under
somber dragon
it won't be numerically "better" of course, but it fits the current AM model across the tanks for the most part
tawny panther
I think the biggest factor will be the block changes and how much better clock is, then see if they rework us
I don't like hitting IP when it deals now damage
wide forge
370 gear, 194k life 27k IPs
wide forge
almost 14%
tawny panther
Feels nice though. Other tanks just never sit right
Out of interest, fave other tanks?
opaque pagoda
Paladins don’t have a resource generation gameplay model, and with DK’s it’s baked into their attack’s
wide forge
monk just for uniqueness
tawny panther
Smash that isb at random and profit :D
opaque pagoda
I’m going with pally
tawny panther
But I'll be levelling one anyway lol
wide forge
feels cheap playing one of the classes with 100% uptime on their AM but still
tawny panther
Yeah I'm thinking pally as well, liking look as holy too for some side fun
Probably get warrior monk paladin priest levelled in first week
Depending when I break or how much farming I do
wide forge
im not feeling that adventurous ill lvl them slowly with rested xp
wheres my invasions to lvl with
tawny panther
I'm going hard early :D
Get that rep and dungeon grind going on warrior and loremaster
Then level them in between
wide forge
gonna go hard on collecting them herbs to sell for massive profit to fund my respecing habit
tawny panther
Could be the most double gatherers ever seen on a launch so you never know! Except we know it will be insane anyway lol
Launch weeks ftw
tawny panther
I have my profs all planned out
wide forge
im using JC till i get that then ill swap back to herb my next trip back to town
opaque pagoda
Can you switch to gathering for leveling and then get all your plans back when you switch back to crafting?
I don’t know how they do thar
That now
wide forge
you can get legion plans back
minus rank ups
but im pretty sure you lose all older plans
weary notch
I swore off ever dropping blacksmithing on my warrior after doing it in Wrath and it being super hard to level back up. But BSing seems really useless now
opaque pagoda
No can do
wide forge
im just dropping herb for JC just to get the 5% gem, and its not like herb has any old plans anyone cares about
horde get the gem in one of the zones maybe any hour in
an*
weary notch
has anyone tried switching to another non-gathering profession since pre-patch? How long does it take?
wide forge
to lvl up the full thing?
weary notch
yeah, if I wanted to switch from BSing to JC
wide forge
not sure, it'll be like legion and wod where you can craft the new recipes right away, but as for how long to max it out dunno
i rarely swap my crafting professions i just use different chars
weary notch
is anyone feeling that blacksmithing looks fairly useless?
wide forge
most the proffesions seem kinda lackluster to me this time around
weary notch
JCing and Alchemy are always useful
wide forge
obviously JC/enchanting/alch will always be used
but theres even less slots to enchant now
they took out back enchant
weary notch
but I'm hesitant to drop mining since it was such a pain to level in legion. And it still seems like a gathering profession is really useful
wide forge
you'll get ore from scrapping your gear
weary notch
from BSing?
wide forge
obviously you wont be swimming in it if thats your only source
and all your lvling gear
it gives what mat would be used to make form my best guess
so all plate should give ore from what i saw
weary notch
is that from blacksmithing or mining?
wide forge
neither
its from essentially DEing your greens+ at a machine
just not with the actually enchanter DE skill
weary notch
interesting. I must have missed that.
wide forge
its tucked in by the engineer trainer
if you're not an enchanter probably best use for all your greens and gear
can get you the expulsom as well
kindred sorrel
Any good Weak auras for prot?
kindred sorrel
ok, ty
undone sun
essentials in the pins of #ui-addons-manager otherwise suites are entirely subjective
frigid blaze
Bois. I can't decide between prot warrior (my main for 13 years) or veng DH. Halp.
wide forge
tanks should have shields, theres your answer!
frigid blaze
When you put it like that...
wide forge
both are fun kinda hard to saw what winds up being best by the time it actually matters, do you wanna jump around a bunch and be a big demon, or a guy with a shield
frigid blaze
por que no los dos 😦
unborn crest
according to J.D prot warrior is his last pick for M+
somber dragon
and how many of us are going to be doing MDI levels of pushing? 😄
unborn crest
wellyou know how it goes when some known person sets the Meta. You just get picked last for keys
kind urchin
Who's J.D? Did you mean J.B?
unborn crest
yes JdotBBBB
frigid blaze
Sco had the same conclusion didn't he?
unborn crest
but wasnt he rating on raid tanking?
ember arrow
oh boi
little star
he did both
ember arrow
here we go
unborn crest
im pissed off at blizzard though
frigid blaze
Granted, Sco's scale made absolutely no sense to me.
unborn crest
self healing as prot is dependant on killing adds
ember arrow
how dare you insult our beloved sco points
little star
and FYI prot will be fine for m+ and raiding unless you're pushing either really high keys or world 100 raiding
then you'll just be worse than the other tanks
unborn crest
healers have to put in some extra work
little star
so they will with all tanks
ember arrow
no tank can self sustain
unborn crest
im just saying its not the "Meta" so people will pick you second over a BDK
somber dragon
you do realize that if it was easier to trigger VR it would not be 20% health?
unborn crest
my BDK heals self heals way better then my prot warrior. i can def tell the diffrence
kind urchin
I'm gonna say something that might freak some of you guys out. Just because someone's the main tank of the top guild doesn't make them the top tank and even they might not know how to play a certain class/spec to its full potential.
somber dragon
look, we might not self heal, but played properly, a warrior is going to take less damage and take it smoother than a DK or DH
ember arrow
lol
little star
no bracers + huge rage generation anymore
somber dragon
we'll take less damage, but less smoothly than a monk
unborn crest
yep once legos are gone its going to be worse
frigid blaze
I feel like it's extremely unlikely that Sco doesn't know how to play prot to its fullest potential. I'll be willing to concede that he likely can't play DH to the same degree that he can prot warrior, though, so perhaps the comparison isn't totally fair.
ember arrow
saying bdk heals better than a warrior is like saying "my car drives much better than my hamster"
unborn crest
yep
frigid blaze
Sounds like you have a shitty hamster, Levko.
ember arrow
although warr toolkit isnt made around self heals
surreal stump
prot warrior has better large cooldowns and can cycle through them faster than most other tanks, no?
ember arrow
yea
unborn crest
blizzard made the other warrior specs pretty good and kinda said F prot
frigid blaze
Aren't arms and fury super lackluster on the charts right now?
little star
no
somber dragon
my dk is like 216 and has ~ the same armor as my 191 prot warrior....
little star
both are doing great
somber dragon
is there an echo in here?
frigid blaze
Ah; the last sim set I saw had fury pretty low and arms middle-of-the-pack.
somber dragon
i'm glad you didn't see the sim set that had prot using autoattacks and a potion of old war only 😄
unborn crest
i play 3 tanks and warrior ios definetly the hardest to play (also the funnest).
somber dragon
THERE HAS BEEN A GLITCH IN THE MATRIX
waarrior is the only tank that is 100% proactive
unless you count the heal from bolster/ls
unborn crest
i have hope that things will change as the expac goes on, stat stacking and tunning
ember arrow
with bolster, LS becomes proactive too
kind urchin
I've watched Sco's gameplay and he misses a lot of stuff and takes plenty of unneccesary damage so I take his advice with a grain of salt.
ember arrow
but if you take no unnecessary dmg
somber dragon
warrior might arguably have the highest skill floor
ember arrow
then u cant do s e l f h e a l i n g
frigid blaze
Levko with the next level strats.
ember arrow
well, selfhealing isnt a big part of a tank toolkit in raids firstly
unborn crest
but he is basing his rating on all tanks. his game play is the same
cosmic cargo
are you comparing with boneshield? because dk armor is actually quite close to warr
somber dragon
selfhealing replaces lower mitigation in a raid setting
you can "game" most self-heal mechanics far more than you can game our mechanics sure.... but that's not the intent
unborn crest
if prot warrior does top dps for tanks id call it a push
somber dragon
best aoe dps right now last i checked
and arms is the only spec pulling off tanks lol
unborn crest
im just salty that prot warriors are ridding in the back seat for a 2nd expansion
somber dragon
only in the back seat if you don't think/play for yourself
unborn crest
classic is starting to look more and more appealing
ember arrow
unless u wanted to do +25 fortified arcway
unborn crest
back seat in legion? hallo?
somber dragon
balance gets more and more difficult without total and utter homogenization once you get outta the "reasonably" high keys
little star
pretty sure prot wasn't in the back seat in EN
ember arrow
neither in tos or antorus
nh was rough
alot of key blockable abilities in those last 2
unborn crest
they werent ridding in the front but lower middle of the pack
little star
ye i know my guild used a prot warr on KJ hc first kill because Nelths fury and Felclaws
atleast my old guild
ember arrow
my scientific research results: 245 prot warr: 1866 armor. 248 dk: 1413
little star
does BDK have the str to armor passive?
ember arrow
during boneshield
little star
ah ok haven't played my bdk since the prepatch so wasn't sure
kind urchin
I felt that warrior was very solid during Legion with the exception of NH.
ember arrow
it was
undone sun
correct
waxen cradle
Personally I am going to continue to do what I planned to do after testing on the Alpha/Beta and play the Prot Warrior because I enjoy it the most. As for where we stand in M+ or raiding anyone who has been around WoW for any considerable numbers of years know well that what is best for this or that is constantly in flux so that scale can drastically swing from 1 patch to another, and most certainly do so between expansions so that being said play what you enjoy and do not concern yourself with the rest unless your pushing top MDI, or pushing top 100 world raiding.
Also if your that concerned about being able to push high level M+ keys then have a alt setting around relatively geared to that of your main and there ends that concern. 😃
ember arrow
well, if you plan on pushing any content, having multiple tanks is what you should be doing
somber dragon
no alpha/beta here, just dicking around pre/post-patch after having a forced hiatus, and when i attempt to account for gear discrepancies, i'm enjoying how prot feels the most between my bdk, vdh, monk, druid, and pali....
junior ivy
prot is fun
kind urchin
I keep all 6 tanks geared and ready. Usually push content with my warrior (main since vanilla). There was that stint in NH where I mained bear though.
waxen cradle
Agreed @ember arrow which is why I always tried to gear at least 2 other tanks relative to that of my main
I do not have time to do all 6 but I keep 3 geared
somber dragon
i feel like when i play well, i do well, and when i don't, it obviously shows... and since i'm not pushing hard, i can afford to learn as i gear up at a more moderate pace
kind urchin
I have no life outside of WoW.
somber dragon
and i like that feel of "nailing it"
waxen cradle
If I had more time I would gear more then 3, but I find having 3 geared tanks is usually enough to cover my bases so to speak
regal island
Honestly i kinda think if they want real competitive m+ they have to baseline it like instanced pvp
ember arrow
god no
regal island
skill>gear
kind urchin
I love when I get a good pull and I just know it's gonna be up in the 100 percentile range.
ember arrow
yes because puttign hundreds of hours to get good gear
is same as joining once a week
and being equal in power
regal island
not like it matters for the mdi? u can just buy the gear off vendors.
ember arrow
pvp doenst have templates btw
little star
if they were to make like a MoP/WoD challenge mode for unique rewards then it could be ok
ember arrow
which will make me wanna do pvp
regal island
eh equalize it and give greater rewards from the weekly chest
waxen cradle
Now granted I do play all 6 tanks, but with my amount of time I keep 3 or so well geared. I may try and do 4 this expac
somber dragon
i'm doing my warrior for the feel, bdk for the nostalgia, and maybe a 3rd toon, probably my warlock tbh 😄
kind urchin
I think with the shift to M+ they should start tuning tanks for that. Maybe even give them different skill sets for dungeon and raid.
regal island
Make it normalize ilvl but you keep equiped gear it just gets reduced to X max ilvl or something
somber dragon
FUCK THAT
ember arrow
templates were a horrible idea
somber dragon
i can see a specific competition doing that
ember arrow
they realized it wit pvp
somber dragon
but not my weekly pushing keys
waxen cradle
My plan is to do my Warrior, DK, Druid, and either Monk or VDH
Would be my 4 most likely
little star
people want to outgear content to make it easier, having gear equalized to say 360 for a +10 would make people not want to do it. In the MDI its skill that makes you win or lose, normal players don't want to not be able to complete a dungeon
regal island
would be way more alt friendly and get players to lvl more cha's to swap them out to push keys
somber dragon
or even have it be a toggle on the dungeon
ember arrow
its the ability to play on higher keys
kind urchin
Thats asking a lot though.
little star
exactly, you could give the worst player 400 ilvl in a +10 and they will still die on the first trash pack
somber dragon
"goblinic device of testicular reduction" to turn the mode on
better gear makes the same content easier
as long as skill doesn't decline 😄
i like that feel
somber dragon
and then there are the supercasuals like me who don't care about it 😄
ember arrow
well ye, but you prob dont sign up to +24s
with 1k score
those people are the ones complaining
kind urchin
I don't mind raider.io but I think for average scores people put too much stock in them.
somber dragon
honestly, my biggest win for warrior is that i completely enjoy all 3 specs
kind urchin
High scores take skill. Average scores can be carries.
kind urchin
I would probably say about 2-2.5k for average. Give or take a little bit.
kind urchin
I firmly believe that a large number of people still couldn't do a 15 before prepatch.
coral dew
Any people with beta experience? Trying to figure out how the damage from Brace for Impact is calculated
somber dragon
looking likei it is additive to the hit before any multipliers
that's just my reading/interpretation
IF still looks better i think ¯_(ツ)_/¯
waxen cradle
Yeah agreed my go to will still be Deaf Crash and Iron Fortress
somber dragon
some of the non-warrior traits look pretty solid too
sick sentinel
One message removed from a suspended account.
coral dew
Wait of its added value to shield slam damage before multipliers, wouldn't that be better?
Since whatever % from things like sb, heavy rep. Etc will be increasing it even further
somber dragon
if we're looking to maximize dps at this point, theoretically.... but i do not think our gear : content ratio is at a place where that is going to be optimal
coral dew
Oh no I didn't mean for tanking purposes, I meant for potentially pvp purposes
Figured I'd ask in here though since it's specific to the spec
But yeah if the formula is shield slam damage + brace for Impact buff damage x shield slam damage modifiers = total dmg, then that's pretty strong
somber dragon
i feel that's the path they would take as to not balance it around having those availiable
since taking those choices already sacrifices something generally
wide forge
cursory glance it adds it in prior
with avatar as my only multiplier used my hits went from a min of 4.6k to 8.5k bit more than 20%
coral dew
Holy shit
wide forge
that was 1 trait
coral dew
I was just about to ask...
wide forge
other wise trash lol
coral dew
With multiple stacking traits of it + some overlap that seems really good for a prot pvp spec
I figured it was just additive after all damage modifiers
Which based on what you're saying, it doesn't seem to be
wide forge
let me go buy a couple more traits real quick
coral dew
Really appreciate this on the fly experimentation!
wide forge
getting very unlucky with resets during avatar making my numbers not look right
wide forge
probably faster
coral dew
Hehe
wide forge
with traits hits for 7671, 30% modifer takes it to 12273
without traits 5672, 30% modifier 9075
gotta be something im not seeing buffing that a bit
coral dew
Interesting
wide forge
cause im dumb
coral dew
Yeah even in both cases there's additional damage
wide forge
had heavy repercussions on
coral dew
Just that with the traits the magnitude is larger
wide forge
it checks out 60%
wide forge
also adds some benefit pve, block value
coral dew
Yeah, whoever wrote the guide on wowhead had s good opinion of it even for pve for the block rating
wide forge
4ish% more mitigation during shield block per stack
well maybe not per stack dimishing and all that
close though
at 360 ilvl
coral dew
Yra h because the effect overlaps right?
wide forge
ya
coral dew
So you could stack probably like 2 or so effects at once within 9 secs
wide forge
but each stack falls off on its own independently
wide forge
i had 2 stacks fairly often, 3 was a bit more rare
coral dew
Makes sense, good stuff man, ty for taking the time
wide forge
np
somber dragon
are we going to be decent flag carriers again between bounding stride and intercept?
wide forge
not so long as V DH exist
wide forge
im honestly not sure
somber dragon
i am tempted to log on DH and share my realid for science
polymorphed mid-air.....
i'm laughing more than i should be
tight lake
I still go borean tundra with my DK just so I can deathgrip the killer whales. Thats absolutely absurd to,watch
somber dragon
right?
the first time was a dangerous accident 😄
i remember how a fucking quest reward out there was the BiS 2H tanking weapon pre-raid for a while in wrath 😄 because it was the only 2H to have defensive stats at the time 😄
(aka, DK was the only one that remotely gave a fuck about it)
solar crown
pft, I mained a DK and could tank with dual-wield
sick sentinel
can we have ignore pain off gcd plz xd why did the fun police come
fair ingot
if you slam some1 with car door would it not be attacking anb blocking at the same time? 
sick sentinel
need 2 car doors for that.
fair ingot
But what if enemy could not see you behind them? 🤔
vocal tide
How do you guys think leveling as prot would be 110-120 ?
opaque pagoda
Seems unnecessary!
You’d be getting much worse single target damage in exchange for more survivability than you need
But I’m sure it would be fine
kind urchin
I've always leveled prot so it's normal for me. I just pull everything I can find and mow it down.
vocal tide
In legion leveling as tank was pretty good if i remember correctly
kind urchin
I may be a masochist but I've leveled prot since vanilla.
Granted I spent most of my time tanking dungeons to level back then.
charred vigil
Level as fury. Set loot spec to Prot
opaque pagoda
Fury and arms both have war machine for extra speed
sick sentinel
weaklings. just go full prot all the time!
charred vigil
Skystep potions
sick sentinel
Do we have a prot APL for testing purposes btw?
undone sun
no
sick sentinel
Gonna write it myself then :\ and that sucking at C languages
or is the simc implementation bugged?
undone sun
the apl itself doesn't require any C++ knowledge, it's the whole profile
sick sentinel
e.g. != is C, isn't it?
weary notch
if you're asking if the syntax of "!=" is exclusive to C, C+, C++ or C Sharp, the answer is no
unborn vapor
Sorry if this has already been asked a million times, but is prot actually as bad as I've heard for M+ going into bfa?
strong forum
no its not
somber dragon
the apl has to use a mini-language in order to be self-consistent from spec to spec and class
strong forum
prot is weaker than the self healing tanks yes, but not nearly as weak as others make it out to be
unborn vapor
So I shouldn't have issues pushing keys as long as I'm good at the spec?
strong forum
yes
somber dragon
prot is not currently the best idea for hitting and pushing 20+ asap, but if that isn't your goal then you will be more than fine
strong forum
unless you push for top content and want to compete for #1 tank world you will be fine
somber dragon
and by asap i mean bleeding fucking edge
unborn vapor
That's good, because I do love the toolkit and playstyle of prot, but I wanted to focus on M+ this expansion. I don't have the time to play for hours and hours per day, so I'm not worried if it takes me a little longer
strong forum
100% will be fine
somber dragon
we're the proactive tank with a ton of cds that we can use all through a fight
strong forum
only prob could be cunts declining you because they believe the community
somber dragon
that's when you sell your body in order to enlist a healer friend or 3 😄
strong forum
thats why you get big dick rio score and ilvl
somber dragon
does the former require yet another an addon?
i've not been srs raider mentality since SoO
but i can see myself going down the wormhole to do fun higher keys (not MDI level, but it will probably where i get my best gear from so I want good gear damnit 😄 )
somber dragon
i see that now that i've poked around some
strong forum
somber dragon
that will all have to wait until i get off this linux box and build a new windoze machine though 😄
strong forum
but only of those that have the addon themself i think
vagrant cape
Howdy friends! I'm still deciding which tank to main and I have a couple questions (I've read and watched quite a bit on them, so I'll try not to ask anything already answered in the pins, but if an answer is there, feel free to to just tag this with the pin emoji or what have you).
-
How screwed can you get from RNG with respect to shield slam resets, revenge procs, etc? If I raid mythic, how inconsistent will my tanking be? Is the difference between good and bad RNG significantly noticeable (like having to call for an external) or will it be manageable?
-
How does the community perceive prot warriors for m+ and raid tanking? Will I have a hard time getting into a +10 (or whatever required level is for a max level weekly chest) key group or a heroic pug as a prot warrior?
-
Is our damage good or not? I keep hearing mixed things on this. It mostly sounds like we're second only to demon hunters, is this true?
-
Is permanent demo shout possible on a single target fight with three of the thunderclap-extends-demo-shout azerite traits?
Thanks y'all! I appreciate it! Also, if you could, tag me when you answer in case I can't look at my phone.
dense kernel
- From what I have seen personally I can get pretty screwed with no SS resets I am not the best geared with proper stats though so take that with a grain of salt.
- I have heard that warrior right now isn't looking so hot as ignore pain is on GCD and doesn't really block that much
- Damage is pretty good I would say especially AoE
strong forum
- i havent really had issues with SS resets and especially not Revenge
- nobody can tell, community thinks prot is horrible when it really is not
- Damage is amazing
- stacking deafening crash will not extend the duration more than 1second per clap
damage from deafening crash stacks, extension doesnt @vagrant cape
shut summit
tooltip actually changed to 2sec per tclap now, so thats gud
shut summit
cant keep it up permanent but is super high
vagrant cape
Thank you so much! Especially for the deafening crash clarification. Oh damn, that's big. So it's a one-trait wonder then?
strong forum
IP will still fulfill its role as defensive rage dump
vagrant cape
Will perma demo shout be at least possible during avatar?
shut summit
yea you can keep it up full time during avatar
hot locust
It'll last all of avatar
shut summit
and when avatar ends / demo fades, the CD of demo is up again
vagrant cape
Cool beans
So with anger management, max stacks of into the fray, and deafening crash, I wonder what the uptime is on demo shout
With a good haste level
I guess it depends on procs and how much rage you can dump, too
near blaze
hey ,. how is prot warr doing in M+ for bfa . any ideas ?
vagrant cape
I'm having a hard time deciding between warrior and paladin still. I love Holy and ret as backups, I've never played arms or fury. For tanking though, I really love warrior and their procs and their CDs
somber dragon
we're gonna be really solid, both mitigation-wise and mobility wise, and with kiting being more of the meta (from beta) for m+ mobility will be important
we aren't FOTM though
hearty sphinx
with 355 ilvl max for the opening of m+ do you think it will be hard to push a +10 ?
with an average ilvl of 345
somber dragon
that depends on the rest of your team
somber dragon
necrotic is bad for all tanks, even the self-healers (just like grevious is dangerous for everyone)
hearty sphinx
i did a +10 yesterday with 368 ilvl on beta and it was pretty easy
but with 345 /350 on live for the opening ...
strong forum
if you have a solid team you can push the +10 yes
just get a lucky atal dazar, and its not like you wont get gear from m0 -> +10
so a +10 week 1 should be ez
hot locust
We don't need to be "up'd"
Add more power and we'll just end up with EN nerfs all over again.
somber dragon
i'd rather see them tone down the fotm classes a touch
strong forum
they did though
hot locust
I dont think the difference comes in numbers at all right now.
hot locust
Its more just the forms and effectiveness of utility and ease of kite that seperates tanks atm in M+
strong forum
^
hot locust
Almost every other tank has a strong enough slow to kite well themselves. we dont really.
strong forum
unless you make VDH BDK utterly useless numberswise they will be stronger
hot locust
unless you take a sub-optimal talent in dragon roar.
strong forum
8.6k at 238ilvl
strong forum
45k hp for me
strong forum
at 120 its around 13%hp
hearty sphinx
the thing is
strong forum
give or take 1-2%
hearty sphinx
ip is getting crush in m+
strong forum
an absorb is an absorb
and its a defensive rage dump
not AM
absorbing 30k Dmg every other global is pretty nice if you ask me
ontop of blocking
hearty sphinx
we need bracer trait baseline
strong forum
not really
ember arrow
Wrist wasnt a trait
ember arrow
Ye but we dont
hearty sphinx
we really lack of selfhealing
ember arrow
It will go against whole tank changes
hot locust
It doesn't matter.
ember arrow
Warr has best physical metigation in the game
hot locust
We make up for self healing with better damage reduction.
No tank self heals forever anymore.
ember arrow
And arguably best magic DR in SR
hearty sphinx
so if we have the best mitigation
shut summit
also wat do you mean most other tanks have strong enough snare to kite themselves, isnt it only consecrate 50% from pally / that DnD decaying snare from dk?
hearty sphinx
why are we getting crush in ghigh m+
ember arrow
U arent xomparing legion m+ to bfa tanks are u 
hearty sphinx
i dont know if u push high key on beta
but its same as legion
unless u have more physical dmg
scenic veldt
pls elaborate
hearty sphinx
so u we can have the best mitig physical
ember arrow
No magic tankbusters for one
ember arrow
Ugh
hearty sphinx
and in m+ u have to selfheal
ember arrow
Someone take over
hot locust
No, you really don't have to self heal.
astral crystal
Tfw no abrodus bf
hearty sphinx
lala what is ur highest key on bfa
astral crystal
“Less magic tankbusters” puts stackable magic dot that deals 30k a tick on you and your party nothin personnel kid
hot locust
Wasn't really much of an issue either.
ember arrow
If that wasnt kicked everyone died yes
hearty sphinx
and did someone test the new darkmoon trinket ?
hot locust
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It'll be ok for progression
since it's passive str/stam
but outside of that
pretty worthless
There just aren't any good "tank" trinkets first tier.
hearty sphinx
and for m+ ?
ember arrow
No tank can self sustain without healer anymore regardless
hearty sphinx
the healing isnt great ?
hot locust
Negligible
astral crystal
Yeah tank healing isn’t that great right now save for dk
But that’s because they have trash mitigation
hearty sphinx
we need to know zandalari racial
lament sky
doesnt matter looks cool
somber dragon
between SR and DS we have pretty solid options for magical mitigation in the currently known damage patterns
from my personal (limited) experience, prot is probably the "most changed" tank from legion -> bfa, maybe not in terms of what our buttons do to some extent, but to how the spec is played.
fierce juniper
We'll be live for our next episode of Skyhold Talks talking about Protection Warrior with @final mist, @shut summit, @hot locust, and myself in 10 minutes!
cloud bone
Dang gonna have to watch the vod later
somber dragon
DID I MISS ANYTHING IMPORTANT???
weary notch
literally everything
hot locust
FeelsBadMan
somber dragon
so i guess the "prot warrior" meta for m+ is "it's ok to bring external utility that isn't the FOTM highest dps of the week 😄
strong forum
well
rogue and frostmage are FOTM
and high AF utility
the only non fotm choice we get is prob healer
i really enjoy having a resto over a pally for example
since we as prot tanks profit more from constant healing
instead of big heals
somber dragon
the only time i'll know the healer i have is when the gf plays (to start, hopefully i'll make frens with mana bars that matter 😄 )
pale dagger
Best leggos to level with ?
strong forum
sephuz + boots
fair ingot
gotta go fast
final mist
Thanks for joining us!
tired narwhal
so what are your guys' opinions on prot warrior in pvp, I haven't quite got into it with prot yet, but was curious as to some opinions on it
sick sentinel
Hey will that stream be available to watch later tonight? My kiddos wouldn’t cooperate 🙄
hot locust
Yeah it should end up on youtube
you can also catch the vods (its broken into 2 because of internet problems) on twitch
sick sentinel
Perfect! 👌
dapper copper
Okay, 5 man group, 3 dps 1 healz, 1 prot warrior, Legos? Belt/Sephuz?
for leveling I'm talking
split pecan
dapper copper
o, I assumed that was solo
dapper copper
mm mmmm ok ok
sick sentinel
dungeons are trivial anyway leveling. just gotta fast fast for quick quick xp done done
weary notch
Sephuz ends up being more speed than the crafted belt leggo? I was thinking about boots and rethmar's
strong forum
you can get sephuz for almost every pack
since charge procs it
gives huge dps boost
signal plover
hey did they ever confirm if the heart of azeroth quest will pop if you're in silithus?
signal plover
ya but ur always in SW when u finish lord
strong forum
thats how its intended
signal plover
do you have to be in SW for the quest to pop
strong forum
anywho, wont matter much since i start in goldshire with 10% darkmoon buff
so i have to go to SW anyway
weary notch
I want to make sure to get the best leveling leggos. That way it feels the worst when they stop working. I hate myself
strong forum
that sounds like a you problem
change is scary i know
but you cant do anything about it
so enjoy it while it lasts 5 hrs
weary notch
I'm just being silly. I'm honestly looking forward to getting rid of all this haste. I'm probably in the minority on that
strong forum
im just looking forward to getting my iron fortress trait
weary notch
"every time you block an attack, a 400 foot iron fortress is constructed at your location"
strong forum
that could also make do
unique echo
I know this has been asked and trying to find it in the skyholdgg podcast vid as I heard it.. what are the 2 bis lego's for leveling prot in bfa?
uncut fractal
I'm returning to my protection warrior in bfa as a main guardian druid, is it a wise choice?
Reason is I didn't like the reduced mitigation changes and gdruid feels extremely squishy in +15s
sick sentinel
c:
unique echo
I know this has been asked and trying to find it in the skyholdgg podcast vid as I heard it.. what are the 2 bis lego's for leveling prot in bfa? sorry
little star
sephuz + aggramars
and its right at the end of the video
and shoulders for that triple leap
unique echo
ahh, thank you
somber dragon
what if anger management effected sb too with like 0.1 seconds per 10 rage 🤔
hot locust
Or we could not tie in even more things to anger management
It's already broken enough as is
astral crystal
what i got from skyhold talks ep 4
lala is not actually a cute anime girl
sal is a traitor i will never listen to again
hot locust
I'm sorry I ruined your perception of me.
Would it help if I put on a mask of a cute anime girl if I'm on next time @astral crystal ?
ember arrow
Welcome
hot locust
and then walked away
ember arrow
They do in legion too
hot locust
Oh yeah, they also gave us way more of a fun offensive CD in Avatar. 😃
hot locust
You had roughly 4 times more rage generation
ember arrow
Not overall
crisp slate
Anybody got link to VOD from earlier?
crisp slate
Cool ty
somber dragon
my brain is still torn between what i know will be easymode for the content i'm aiming at, and warrior, which i find incredibly fun 😄
adn yeah, too much powah for one talent
maybe an azerite trait of sorts, maybe not tied to rage spent 😄
maybe a trait like "downward spiral: when you have IP active, 25% of the damage you mitigate gets added to the absorb"
(but doesn't refresh duration)
somber dragon
i'm honestly just spitballing traits for the next tier of gear at this point 😄
i'm very happy with where prot sits, just a very new playstyle to me coming from mostly bear/bdk for my tanking experience (:
opaque pagoda
if you add a period after a statement, it means it's true.
hot locust
🤔
astral crystal
agreed.
also
i think banners should come back too
mocking banner and demo banner at least
hot locust
I think Sal's idea for a banner that interrupts casting would be cool. Would help prot in the AoE group shit up like others department. I don't care much for the other banners though.
astral crystal
i like mocking banner
it'd give us an option similar to ox statue
you still kinda do
behold
ember arrow
Minmaxing ip was a thing?
U ever spent less than 60 rage on ip?
U used it whenever it was available, unless u had DS proc then at 60 rage. I wouldnt call that minmaxing
serene briar
I used to ignore IP until seeing SB won't be enough to shrug off incoming damage
Then only spam when the shield was fading.
Still prefer SB.
opaque pagoda
I always really liked the talent that made it heal for more at low health
I think it was interesting gameplay
But it just wasn’t competitive in that tier and still isn’t
And they baked it into light of the protector, so they won’t make it baseline for warriors
delicate fable
Now that kjbw has been nerfed, what should I use with sephuz for leveling?
Shoulders or boots for speed? Or gloves for a bit of damage?
red oyster
How difficult is prot in BFA compared to legion?
You think its very easy to jump into with a bit of research and be successful in normal and heroics?
By the time I'm geared for mythics I would hope to have enough familiarity lol
sick sentinel
I like prot as it is now, kit wise.
Just wish had more utility for group/raids pve beyond Rallying Cry.
somber dragon
for raids it won't matter at all
ember arrow
threat change is an example from this
somber dragon
for m+ our damage will make up for it
imagine a game where everyone did similar damage, but the trinity was tank/controller/healer 😄
or it was a quadrinity with tank/controller/buffer(debuffer)/healer
kind urchin
That would be pretty cool
main vault
Can't say I disagree with him
ember arrow
nexii with the roast
dark junco
Hey, what do you macro Demo shout with ?
Trying Shield block but its akward
Couldn't get it to work with avatar
undone sun
demo and avatar are both on gcd
and macroing it in with shield block isn't a good idea
dark junco
Here's my problem
yeah wasn't working good enought
Do you guys use ignore pain or revenge ?
undone sun
defensive vs. offensive
undone sun
yes
signal plover
🤔
dark junco
Trying to make a spot somewhere on my mouse
Don'T even have devastate anymore linked, since there's little/no time to use it
junior ivy
awwww this cute warrior in this arcway +2 said i was the best tank hes ever seen lolol
signal plover
But a gnome tho
static wedge
❤
little rain
Wrote this up for a group of plate friends, simple loot by dungeon for M+ & loot by boss for loot spec swapping in M0's in groups. It if it helps you guys, feel free to make a copy or export the formatting so you can edit the blank cells accordingly.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fyDwbuNuYUE9phC3B-YlJjLzwirIiJYmVnEGEdolm9s/edit?usp=sharing
candid cove
Too bad the sets themselves don't look good >.>
safe shale
Guild just asked me 2 days before BFA if I was interested in MT spot.... wtf. So I main Fury, trying not to ditch the Warrior but looking like they only want Monk or DK
For Mythic Prog
raven kernel
if you're a serious mythic guild i would strongly recommend to swap to monk if you're committing to the MT spot
not that warrior isnt viable, but since BFA hasnt started and you have the opportunity to make a change, it would be the better choice if you're willing to do it
safe shale
Barely even got my monk to 110 let alone tanked with it
clear sapphire
Is this the want to play another tank class chat now? @raven kernel
main vault
Best advice is to play what you enjoy playing
charred vigil
@safe shale just based on your name alone you should be playing warrior.
safe shale
I wanted to see if there were reasons I could give the officers to stay Warr, but we push CE every tier so I need to do what's best for team
I main Fury Joe, but they just dropped this on me tonight
undone sun
well, ce doesn't mean a whole lot to begin with
if you're top 50 then it matters what tank you play
main vault
Outside of top 40-50 world is means fuck all what tank you play
clear sapphire
@safe shale Are you pushing CE within the first 2-4 weeks?
main vault
CE is like top 1800 world
raven kernel
its pretty late to drop the MT spot to someone else
undone sun
not really
raven kernel
was previous MT not actually that good or did he just up and leave
safe shale
He left
main vault
Play what you enjoy the play and you guys will do just fine
safe shale
Nah, we're like top 20 on A-52
main vault
If the choices you were given were Monk/DK and not Monk/Bear/Pally that kinda says alot
raven kernel
eh u can stay warrior then
main vault
Even top 200 you can lol
raven kernel
but it also depends on how tight you are with your guild
charred vigil
DK must be for the grips
safe shale
I honestly think it's mostly perception
raven kernel
for me, if my guild asked the same of me i would swap to BRM in a heartbeat since BFA isnt out yet
if it was mid expac i would be resistant to swap
raven kernel
depends on my monk alt's status at that time
im going warrior / dh / dk
then monk whenever i have time left in the week
main vault
Perception makes sense
But there are only two A52 guilds where tank choice really matters
raven kernel
yeah so i said he can stay warrior after he said A52
main vault
Area 52
junior ivy
ohh the realm
i actually have a 110 prot warrior on area 52 how did i not realize it menat that
meant
main vault
Where SPK and Alacrity are
junior ivy
to be fair i never play it though
main vault
And me lol
junior ivy
i think my area 52 warrior is in a guild called eternal struggle
safe shale
Toast
main vault
Which of the 14 teams lol
safe shale
lol
raven kernel
14 teams wat
main vault
Yes
raven kernel
is this one of those mega guilds
main vault
They have 14 raid teams
raven kernel
jeesus
main vault
Yes
raven kernel
fuck that stay warrior
weary notch
holy
main vault
A52s cesspool guild
safe shale
I mean 5 of the teams cleared Mythic
weary notch
they need to rename that guild Struggle Snuggle
main vault
Well yeah
safe shale
That's already taken
main vault
But the top team was only 709 world
raven kernel
had a couple friends in a guild with like 3 raid teams
already had shit ton of drama there
cant imagine 14 teams
safe shale
4 guilds
safe shale
Sometimes
main vault
Some people raid on multiple teams on alts
weary notch
the GM of that guild must be having a constant panic attack
safe shale
We only raided 3 nights a week, so if you wanted to do two teams between two characters that was fine
safe shale
the Discord is basically the guild, while in game they are separate
main vault
RLs
raven kernel
had a guy from Honestly raiding with my guild on his alt in legion
and he also raided in like 2 other guilds with more alts
lmao
safe shale
The Teams act independently like each one is it's own guild with the RL as the GM
main vault
Yeah I raided prog in an EU guild and casually in a daytime guild lol
Now I just moved to US permanently
raven kernel
im actually wamting to raid on a 2nd char in BFA but cant find a suitable guild that doesnt clash with my main's raid hours
safe shale
But thanks Rei for the input, I'll give it some more thought and try and read up on the changes. Seems slower than the last time I played it
main vault
It is
raven kernel
yeah it is
main vault
Feels good at 120
safe shale
yeah, guess I'll have to test it on the Beta
Literally never thought they'd ask me to MT
ebon berry
so is prot war really looking bad?
main vault
No
raven kernel
its definitely NOT bad
ebon berry
oh good, i have seen some pretty bad comments about them
where are they in the pecking order?
main vault
Probably not by anyone who plays them
ebon berry
where would you rate war?
main vault
Bottom half for both, but all tanks are alot closer
ebon berry
ok, i like prot war, have always mained it, just dont want to suck real bad compared to others
main vault
They have great m+ dps tho
main vault
You won't be the best, but you won't suck
weary notch
you never know. There's going to be a tuning pass a few weeks after raids hit. DH could get nerfed into nothing. Pally, too
ebon berry
blizz loves pally, i wouldnt expect that to happen
weary notch
pally was pretty weak for most of legion, outside of M+
outer coral
sorry for asking but
prot isnt bad
but still the worst according to mdi champs?
amber siren
You're talking about the JB article? It's not surprising given he's talking about pushing keys as high as they can go and does mythic+ for tournaments
both reasons that 99% of people aren't
outer coral
I heard others saying the same but I dont remember where
I didnt test myself so idk about anything
undone sun
Generally speaking, sure for those looking to push keys and compete, you wont see really anything other than a dk or dh.
outer coral
just asking cause doing the +15 weekly on pugs used to be way easier on dk than on prot
but since they nerfed self heals idk
for example brew is better so
raven kernel
aye
outer coral
brew is better on bfa*