honestly, always swimming in rage using the legendary belt and high haste. Constant uptime use of demo shout with Booming Voice/Morale Killer/Tclap spam/Anger Management w/ use of Avatar+Unstoppable Force. Never feel desperate for rage in any 2+ target situation.
#protection
sick sentinel
yeah I imagine BFA will be a different suck as we lose our haste numbers/legendaries.
but I'll make do with it when I get there.
feral frost
Is ignore pain still AP*3.5 *(1+vers) per cast?
nimble solar
Im going to tank mythic content in bfa and i was thinking about Rolling with prot war. But i have Been researching forums and youtube and they say that prot war is weaker both in myth+ and raid. My question is: Are prot warrior a viable choice for mythic prog and higher mythic keys without doing anything competetive progression
strong forum
yes
people have been blowing warris weaknesses way out of proportion and without proper knowledge of how its supposed to be played
their main arguments are "sb downtime", "ip is bad" and "no self heal LUL"
IP is supposed to be a defensive rage dump
and SB downtime is supposed to be handled by CD management especially with the use of Bolster
nimble solar
So for the normal mythic raider it Will be no problem to Roll warrior
strong forum
by no means
all the tanks are very close to each other in power, much closer than in legion
nimble solar
Good ty hear thank you m8 for an honest answer
The various youtuber almost scared me away from prot
strong forum
and none of em have properly played prot
thats why
its all just assumptions from reading tooltips and playing the class for 5min
tight tree
ANyone have any youtube or twitch record of latest raid testing with Prot PoV? Curious to see
kind urchin
Sense streams raid testing doesn't he. Haven't been on twitch in a while but he usually posts it on youtube as well.
waxen cradle
Ultimately unless your doing MDI or World First Raiding play what you enjoy the most
kind urchin
What if ignore pain was a toggle that reduced damage by like 10% as long as it were on but drained rage while it's on? Then if you don't manage your rage well and run out it toggles off and goes on a 30 second cd or something. Just a random thought. With random numbers of course.
amber siren
wasn't that a very early alpha implementation? i think?
kind urchin
The way they did it in alpha was that instead of taking health as damage it took rage instead. And it was on a 12 second cooldown no matter what.
So you could take like one big hit and it drained all your rage.
main vault
Don't think that would work either
You'd have to have it take a substantial amount per global and would lead to possible rage starving
somber dragon
that won't "fix" or change anything really...
astral crystal
IP off the gcd would make it pretty strong
kind urchin
Use it wrong? As a toggle it would be on as long as you don't suck at resource management.
strong forum
Mine is 15% on beta OpieOP
main vault
As a toggle it would have to drain 20-30 rps
And if you took IP off the GCD you'd have to take Revenge off the GCD as well
kind urchin
You've never seen that type of mechanic in use have you? 5-10 rage per tick (gcd) would be about right. Then adjust the damage reduction to be fair with the rage drain.
somber dragon
5-10 per tick would be like.... 20-25%
main vault
Maybe that much
somber dragon
WITH azerite traits!
main vault
With traits lol
somber dragon
the main shift that really helped me get a feel for IP now was "it's a defensive rage dump, not AM"
main vault
Yeah that's literally all it is
somber dragon
i also use it to bolster other CDs, pooling, and maybe even capping for a second or two to combine it with SB or LS
i know capping is bad but.... i'm not talking about sitting on it through multiple SS/TC casts ๐
main vault
But a spell that is as strong as Barkskin, that you can toggle and drains minimal rage, that's stupid broken
somber dragon
i like the toggle concept, but i'd do it more like "lets you take x% of damage as rage instead. for every 1% damage it prevents, lose (3-5)rage"
(or an even "worse" ratio like 1:6-10 perhaps, haven't mathed it)
somber dragon
i'm not saying my way best way, just something that appealed to me ๐
main vault
A single hit would empty your bar from full
somber dragon
ok so my mathing sucks ballsack
i can work on that
but also, they could leave it the fuckalll alone and it wouldn't rustle me jimmies ๐
strong forum
Draining rage Is a concept that only works if its capped
And with rage gen in bfa its not a reliable source for Dr
somber dragon
your logic has no place within my armchair dev seat friend ๐
i kid, thank you for helping point out the reasons it is broke (:
strong forum
Npnp
merry cave
or bake 4pce t21 into it baseline ๐
kind urchin
I was thinking more on the lines of a small constant damage reduction that drains a reasonable amount of rage per tick. Not excessive to the point of not being able to use other rage spending abilities but challenging to keep up while using them.
main vault
It's not a terrible idea, but you would be looking at 5% or less damage reduction, it wouldn't even be worth
The current IP is not bad when people see it for what it is and not something they formulated over Legion
kind urchin
I happen to like the idea of ignoring pain. Seeing as I used to fight and we were trained to ignore pain. It's a very realistic idea.
dark junco
At the moment weโre more ignoring ignore pain
main vault
I don't mean the idea of the spell, just the use. People are complaining about it current IP with the vision that it should be big, up often, some peoples main AM, and that just isn't the case anymore. It's far far from that.
kind urchin
That last part was more towards the people that don't like it at all because it "doesn't make sense thematically". Thats more a forum and youtube thing though.
hasty cradle
the spell that gets under my skin thematically is avatar
how the hell do normal dudes with swords know how to grow twice in size and turn their skin to stone
brittle timber
Avatar used to be kind of more a dwarfy/muradin thing
ashen sparrow
avatar needs a animation update
hasty cradle
yeah it makes sense for dwarfs, the whole stoneform thing. but every other race it's just nonsensical
weary notch
only dwarves get avatar. Problem solved
somber dragon
even if we didn't know it before legion, we are odyn's chosen, maybe we don't realize we're going into avatar state by some magik tomfoolery ๐
hasty cradle
would be very easy to adjust the flavor too, it's just a damage boost/snare removal
weary notch
or just make warrior a dwarf only class
somber dragon
inb4 wow the d&d 1e "bringing back races as classes 2020"
weary notch
hell, make all the classes dwarf only and let horde be dwarves. World of Dorfcraft
hasty cradle
not unopposed to this tbh
somber dragon
or just dorfs vs orcs ๐ค
weary notch
maybe horde can be dark iron dwarves
somber dragon
dibs on dark iron and/or any felcrazed dorfs then
weary notch
I just want to see hundreds of crazy drunk short people with beards duke it out
weary notch
alliance vs horde vs dwarf?
somber dragon
they kinda barely get along as it is ๐
astral crystal
and wildhammer should be an allied race
same with earthen and iron dwarves
god i would love to play an iron dwarf
somber dragon
inb4 some orc/dorf halfbreed as next horde race "dorcs" or "oarfs" ๐
weary notch
also, every dwarf toon should automatically get brewmaster as a 4th spec
somber dragon
and you are welcome for that mental image
weary notch
God! This bugs me
somber dragon
i had rigged mine up to say "Halflife 4 pre-alpha" for a while ๐
strong forum
My warri is dwarf since day 1 so I never thought about other races with Avatar
Yeah doesn't make whole lotta sense for others
I mean technically you can play 10min iron dwarf every 2 hrs atticus :p
I used the flask constantly but eventually got bored of it because no armor
tardy oak
guys in what state is prot warrior?
weary notch
mine is in VA
tardy oak
no issues with IG being on GCD?
strong forum
its not an issue
its working as intended
its a defensive ragedump
not your AM anymore
tardy oak
"AM" meaning?
strong forum
active midigation
strong forum
block
strong forum
but if you dont know anything about current prot warri
that answers more than you can ask
tardy oak
aight xD
sick sentinel
Right now Protection warrior is a tank spec
Blizzard may change it in future patches, though
ember arrow
Wat
blazing dirge
Wut.
blazing dirge
My brain hurt reading that. Maybe it was successful
strong forum
too obvious troll
sick sentinel
I'm actually a Dwarf, tbh
strong forum
but it was a proper response to reystar
sick sentinel
^^
sick sentinel
urgh
distant sleet
you guys have time to use Ignore pain? I feel like I never have the time to use it. Always have either SS, revenge or TC up.
sick sentinel
Yep, I use it
strong forum
what you mean time
main vault
That's how it's supposed to be
strong forum
there will never be a window where you cant use anything but IP
you have to make a decision if you want to have a defensive spell active
distant sleet
Yea right, guess I havent tanked anything to dofficult enough for me to give up an offensive spell
sick sentinel
presses shield block in 2 consecutive GCDs
having 2 Shil Bloc at the same time mens 2x da armor bloc
main vault
๐ค
kind urchin
Sagif hacked the game and put shield block on the gcd
copper lion
do ppl need to absolutely stack with you to survive through shared suffering on last boss of lower?
on tyrannical at least
strong forum
doesnt matter anymore does it
main vault
Not in BFA they dont
errant ledge
@copper lion Yes, but you can avoid stacking by leaping out or intercepting
strong forum
usually he would cast it again if he cant get it off
errant ledge
Keep in mind if you do try to avoid it he may cast it twice so be ready to intercept. If your dps is fast enough he will only do 1
Leap/intercept twards the end of his cast
stone hull
Hey guys, I have some questions about trinkets, since I dont have Aggramar's Conviction I've been running Diima's 210. My other trinket kinda varies depending of the dg and if its a raid. But usually is that one from PK, its 215.
I have some DPS trinkets too, and I dont know if I should be using them:
230 Shadow-singed fang
220 Eye of Command
220 Hunger of the Pack
I read somewhere that dps trinkets for tanks dont work with it full capacity so I did some simulations on raidbots but its seems its not working properly for prots?
fierce juniper
good pal
strong forum
did i miss something?
fierce juniper
lol
strong forum
im lost
raven ore
๐
strong forum
k den
hot locust
yes
Corey trusts me enough to move in, I trust him enough to do the same. @raven ore
Hmmm ๐ค
blazing dune
Hmmmm, let's get back on topic
undone sun
๐ค
somber dragon
so at a gear level, where a cape that dropped in heroic was an actual upgrade ๐ i didn't like heroic lower >.<
remote coral
Hello all. First time warrior here. Iโve always been a pure DPS guy before but for this expansion I wanted to finally tackle the challenge of tanking so I decided to go with the proper tank. ๐ I was wondering, how do you guys learn a new spec other than doing people pugs and hope you donโt get kicked because you are messing up? ๐
kind urchin
I usually try to learn a new class/spec solo in open world content then get in a group and just wing it. Let them know you're new to tanking. Most people will help you and work with you.
ember arrow
generally i join class discords, read its pins
then i try it out for myself
becasue practice is the best teacher
you cant really learn tanking by just reading a guide or reading answers
remote coral
Makes sense. I am questing as Prot now to get used to the basics
remote coral
Also do dungeons with my guild I suppose
Iโm max level but boosted so learning the basics
main vault
Jumping into dungeons is the best way
ember arrow
dungeons generally require pulling, using AM properly, grabbing aggro etc
so theyre best practice if you ask me
main vault
Just remember
The absolute worst that can happen is you get kicked
So who gives a shit
dusky sentinel
Best part is. Nobody kicks a tank ๐
On another note. Mad preach to @remote coral for using the perfect words to describe his desire
coral dew
I'm probably just dumb and out of the loop but why did Shield Slam go from like 500% of AP to like 89% of AP from 7.2 to 8.0
Just looking at the changelog and wondering if I'm just misinterpreting it
main vault
You are
main vault
Lol im not
coral dew
sweating
main vault
The % changed yes, but the relative strength is the same
They just changed all that stuff when they moved from the wdmg models
main vault
AP used to interact with wdmg, so they had to go back and rework the math to move it to the new model
They are also trying to bring down tank dmg in general so some is intended
astral crystal
we're all girls in here
kind urchin
Cause they don't want people like me topping the meter in a raid.
sweet kettle
is discord fucked or do i see 2 Keladans?
kind urchin
The goal in legion was for tanks to have like 75% of the damage potential of an actual dps. There's so many bad dps that a lot of tanks were doing more damage than them so Blizzard said we can't be having that now... Nerf bat.
sweet kettle
But that isnt really the tanks problem when people who play a dps class dont know how to dps with it
i think tanks dmg got nerfed cause you could do alot of dmg without sacrificing on survivability
kind urchin
Probably still gonna beat some dps though. Some people are pretty bad. Even when you try to help them so they can do more damage they don't listen. Then it's time to replace them because they aren't helping with progress. But if you do that then half the raid team leaves because they're bff's. So you end up having to carry people.
broken kite
ember arrow
idk if its a valid comparison, but they removed self healing, or reduced it for many tanks, yet i see people dueling and dds healing themselves to full
sweet kettle
there are tanks that still have alot of selfhealing
sweet kettle
well yeah that was the plan
ember arrow
its not rude, its an emote
cinder bridge
that's like saying "it's not rude, it's a word"
sick sentinel
I mean that personโs name is Drtydeeds. I wouldnโt feel too bad
cinder bridge
offense is taken not given I agree, but the response "it's an emote" is nonsensical
and I'd say spitting is rude just in general. even if you don't take offense it's just bad etiquette
going "dude chill it's just an emote" makes you look like an internet warrior edgelord
umbral sluice
How is prot standing up against the other tank specs for prepatch?
kind urchin
Standing like a heavily armored beast that don't care about being hit... Because we ignores that pain.
unique echo
I had to leave yesterday after hearing about the IP trait buff but not the results, how is it looking now?
cinder bridge
what are these buffs ppl are talking about?
junior ivy
ddi we get buffed?
sick sentinel
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unique echo
I thought so, the IP trait was a boost to the actual damage absorption but a nerf to leech
sick sentinel
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ember arrow
@cinder bridge youm ay be unaware, but an emote doesn't actually means youre being spit on in real life. Also, calling me an "internet warrior edgelord" doesn't make the best impression
valid trout
I haven't tanked much since prepatch; did a bunch of reading, stepped into a Heroic, and ... it just didn't feel good. I hope something changes by level 120, yikes.
cinder bridge
all that is irrelevant, saying something is not rude because it's an emote is just a fallacious way of seing it
so many people trying to justify dumb shit cause "dude it's just a symbol, dude they are just words, dude it's just X". sorry for coming out harshly over something relatively harmless
green elbow
Question- Cath 2nd to last boss, the aoe, someone is insisting that spell reflect completely negates it- this seems incorrect to me
cinder bridge
which boss is that again
undone sun
thrashbite
winged marsh
doomatrix. the one that summons portals and does the aoe
winged marsh
gotta get into aggramars shield to dodge the aoe
undone sun
green elbow
Yes, sorry. It -shouldn't- work, because it's an aoe, but someone was saying that it does for no real reason
winged marsh
well there ya go lol ^
cinder bridge
thyme
green elbow
Where's that from, Thyme?
cinder bridge
what resource is that
undone sun
that's not why it shouldn't work
spell reflect and blockable spreadsheet that was pinned in legion
no longer because it's not BFA related
cinder bridge
access denied
kind urchin
I was being sarcastic about that spitting emote but you guys took it to a whole new level of seriousness.
undone sun
try again
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
Still denied for me anyways
cinder bridge
@kind urchin everyone understood that, talking about something else
kind urchin
And also chaotic energies is fully reflectable. Does about 4% of his health in damage. You guys have been burning the shield?
cinder bridge
but that's neither her enor there
undone sun
https://goo.gl/xtfCfX how about now, it was the link that was pinned
sick sentinel
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green elbow
Clarify Thyme- 'That's not why it shouldn't work'?
undone sun
there are plenty of aoe abilities that are reflectable
there's no consistent nor strict rules on what is and is not reflectable
wheat bronze
or why some physical abilities are reflectable
kind urchin
It reflects rapid rupture from the destructor tentacles in Maw as well and thats a physical bleed.
wheat bronze
Who needs consistency?
undone sun
not blizzard ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
wheat bronze
Also how some bleeds are affected by armor but others aren't
Yay
AoE abilities still don't consume Spell Reflection, right?
kind urchin
The amount of abilities that were reflectable in legion that people didn't know were is why I kept trying to tell people that warrior was stronger than they thought. Even most of the top streamers and youtubers never even used the toolkit to its full potential.
undone sun
if the ability is reflected, it is consumed
sweet kettle
the domatrax chaotic energy isnt actually an aoe
wheat bronze
Lame
undone sun
but afaik if SR is just used as DR, it's not consumed
wheat bronze
Yeah, that's the way it worked pre-artifact anyways
green elbow
That's a weapon trait I will miss.
kind urchin
If the spell isn't reflectable it reduces.
wheat bronze
Probably the main one I missing
Maybe Scales of Earth, that was really OP on heavy AoE (like door strat on first boss in Nighthold)
kind urchin
Loved that fight.
opaque pagoda
after running a few M+, I'm just itching to start complaining about prot again, but I'll spare everybody!
I'm happy that the new nvidia driver update seems to improved frame rate on my 970 SLI setup, make sure to update if you're doing SLI
sick sentinel
not only with SLI i also got better performance with gtx 960 now way better
kind urchin
Even with updated drivers on my 1070 I have to run dx11. Dx12 stutters.
kind urchin
Not that I really need dx12. Performance is fine. Would be nice if it worked right though.
sick sentinel
@opaque pagoda you did keys on beta or live?
opaque pagoda
live
sick sentinel
yeah but beta seems more fun with new dungeons + traits
my gear is really low yet its fine
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main vault
Did you taunt or heroic throw?
wheat bronze
Heroic Throw still has an increased threat modifier, pretty sure
main vault
It does
wheat bronze
Is there a way to see damage reflected with Spell Reflection in logs?
sick sentinel
on live you dont use IP alot you use it once thanks to 4pc you dont take damage anymore so you always will have rage for revenge if needed
still even on beta IP isnt crazy good so you dont have to keep it up all the time
main vault
You aren't supposed to keep it up
wheat bronze
Only reason to right now is because 4pc is kind of OP
sick sentinel
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right now with 4pc use them together IP stacks really high
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main vault
Im only using IP before a big hit
sick sentinel
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and you can extend block so long with bolster
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and kite the rest if you dont have anything
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i only picked shield slam trait that buffs your block aswell
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merry cave
I'd just like IV baseline and I'd be content. Although heroic throw cleaving with a glyph would be tops
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
it's a funny thing, back in bc for the wotlk prepatch we were fuggin thrilled beyond words to get devastate to replace sunder
merry cave
Yeah I'm not a fan of it either but I can deal with it there are worse things classes have to do lol
tiny sphinx
granted it was still a talent
sick sentinel
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merry cave
Haha how times change. Imagine devestate did an armour or physical debuff, prot with melee comp would be insane
wheat bronze
Yeah
tiny sphinx
i would not be opposed to a sunder armour mechanic again
wheat bronze
I thought warriors should get it over monks tbh
DK should've gotten +10% AP like they used to have and warriors should've gotten Sunder Armor instead of Monk
Horn of Winter
merry cave
Nah DH and monk aren't represented enough ๐
tiny sphinx
monk should have gotten a 10% move speed party buff
wheat bronze
WW has that already, don't they?
main vault
you mean like WW...
tiny sphinx
does it still apply party-wide?
main vault
Yes
tiny sphinx
should be for all their specs then
main vault
Within range
wheat bronze
Doesn't really make sense for brewmaster to get it since you're typically too far way for it to apply
but I could see MW getting it
main vault
Brew is just as close as ww is
wheat bronze
Have you seen boss models?
Boss models are enormous still. I'm not even close enough to get 5 stacks of ITF on Aggramar
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
I do
tiny sphinx
as it stands it's an aura tho, should be a castable buff, but eh
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
Just saying that boss models are huge and BM isn't as close as WW
merry cave
They won't be for long brew is real good
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
There were a significant number on Argus anyways
main vault
Sure
tiny sphinx
brew is enjoyable to me, and I play every damn tank, except druid for obvious reasons
main vault
But Brew was probably the best tank from NH on
sick sentinel
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main vault
And still no one played it
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
I don't really like the stagger mechanic personally
sick sentinel
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main vault
It's so amazing
wheat bronze
It's really strong, I agree
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
No argument there
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
I just don't like it personally
sick sentinel
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sick sentinel
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main vault
I sat there before raid started just stacking it
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
I'm going to do warrior, druid, and DK as I have for the last few expansions
sick sentinel
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wheat bronze
Having the option to swap to druid on Star Augur or DK on Aggramar was really nice, though
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
play all the tanks (except driud)
signal plover
Just do both like mee
weary notch
I just feel like I don't really have any decisions to make as BrM. Keep ISB up. Purify if I start taking too much damage. You play every encounter almost exactly the same way
sick sentinel
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vivid orchid
losing that helment feels real bad
sick sentinel
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main vault
I just love BrM
It's been my favorite tank since MoP alpha
But I know most of that is nostalgia. Cause that monk is long dead
sick sentinel
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sick sentinel
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vivid orchid
panda monk hype
hollow moss
Yikes
sick sentinel
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merry cave
Zen med has to be the worst tank cd lol
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
wonder if any of the boneheads who make mechanic change choices even playtest themselves
sick sentinel
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sleek pumice
Zen Med is just really situational
sick sentinel
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vivid orchid
its too situational is the problem I have with it
sick sentinel
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spark hamlet
So is a lot of you guys going with the Monk for raiding then
sick sentinel
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sick sentinel
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vivid orchid
leggo made it a straight up better shield wall
sick sentinel
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main vault
Guard
sick sentinel
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main vault
Yummy
sick sentinel
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undone sun
not too common to find those types of fights
sick sentinel
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sleek pumice
it's good on fights with casted aoes or explosions
vivid orchid
definitely not uldir tho
sick sentinel
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undone sun
yeah, first one that comes to mind is Augur from NH
sick sentinel
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sleek pumice
or siege boss in hfc
vivid orchid
was also kinda nice on krosus
tiny sphinx
bring pandaria era vengeance back!
tiny sphinx
weary notch
but click on it
tiny sphinx
yeah, iz ded ๐ฆ
weary notch
was up a couple of weeks ago
merry cave
Any of you guys know the current good prot pally m+ spec
messing around on an alt havent played it in months lol
abstract quarry
Any recommendations for Elvui imports as prot? I've been looking through wagio and haven't seen any I like that much
tiny sphinx
would imagine it's not terribly different than before with the paladin thing
undone sun
import one you like the most then edit around to your likings, what i usually do @abstract quarry
abstract quarry
ty!
arctic sedge
stable forge
So prot warrior not so good again in new expansion?
merry cave
prot war is fine
undone sun
that's a big bait
ember arrow
I was on my dk in front of org. Some guy told me "why the f u play dk, didnt u see the rankings? Monk/dh all the way"
I was like 
stable forge
Everybody talking about dk, monks and dh right now
stable forge
Nope, thats why im asking about it
amber siren
๐
ember arrow
Same as legion. Alot of cds, solid dps
But judging a tank without having played one..
sick sentinel
prot is good in beta
stable forge
I have both dh and war done 9/11 myth before spring. And picking prot war as main tank was not good choice at start
sick sentinel
havent done any high keys but i wasnt taking damage in +7/+8
prot was awesome in antorus man
amber siren
the very short tl;dr is that if you have to ask if a class is good, then your choice doesn't matter in terms of strength or weakness
ember arrow
Doubt it was worse than dh in raids
sick sentinel
as a prot you had the easiest time in antorus
ember arrow
Unless you played bad. Prot was great post NH
luckily bfa isnt ntorus 9/11 so that comparison is vapid
Or are we judging bfa level 120 classes based on wholly differently tuned content at 110
vocal nimbus
Play your personal best, mastering one in particular will help more than playing the top 0.1% class
ember arrow
All tank players should playy multiple tanks to benefit from their various strengths for different encounters
tight tree
For some people some tanks will feel worse, like usual ๐ค But good thing is to have another option just in case of undertuning.
stable forge
I want to fully switch from dh, cuz momentum build sucks for hardmode and nemesis dull af
And with new fury changes...
ember arrow
Hardmode=mythic?
vocal nimbus
Im going to prog with a monk and switch to warrior on reclears
tight tree
I can only be sure that i will never play guardian (too boring) and paladin (too pink).
stable forge
Yea mythic
tight tree
Seen monks being completely murdered by stagger in raid test stream btw
stable forge
๐
ember arrow
Stagger was a mistake
stable forge
Anyway thanks
tight tree
All depends on numbers tuning, stagger or not
stable forge
Ill try prot
ember arrow
I mean if u want fotm go monk for prog. Like in legion
tight tree
Ton of magic damage in encounter journal btw, demo shout does not work for ground/environment effects right?
tight tree
I wish there was clear way to see what is affected and what is not, also, what is blockable what is not
Highly inconsistent all this
undone sun
for it to be affected by DS the damage has to have a source other than being environmental
tight tree
๐ Smart people will do spreadsheet of wtf is blockable, and i will use it!
sick sentinel
blockable damage easy to figure out but spell reflect is so weird sometimes you can reflect aoe damage sometimes you dont take damage but no reflect
blizz is inconsistent about it
undone sun
i have seen deflects, but it's not nearly as common as reflects.
sick sentinel
yeah only once i think in legion curator ground damage
ember arrow
Deflect is good enoigh for me
tight tree
I for once want to have alt tank that is less healer dependent, so i will go warr main/DH alt
Unless guild make me play Brewmasted, thats it ๐
ember arrow
Shit guild
If thats the case
You should swap tanks when necessary anyway for bosses
tight tree
Nah, i am half joking tbh. I would refuse guardian or pala, but monk i like.
ember arrow
Makes sense then
tight tree
I love my guild, but this love has its limits ๐
astral hare
Well warrior is clearly healer dependant. I can currently survive 50s against raid level sparring partner with 4pT21
tight tree
I rolled guardian/brewmaster for our guild restructurisation in Antorus. Was hard time for everyone so i wanted to releive stress as much as i can and play most optimal options.
astral hare
As we no longer have our buffable IP
tight tree
BfA i plan to play what i mained forever (warrior), and dh just for fun and m+ maybe. Unless some encounters/tank situation will require monk, then i play that.
astral hare
50s without big (>1min) cds
tight tree
Warrior is heal dependent, that is why i want less heal dependent alt
astral hare
Ah now I see. Warrior main, DH alt
sick sentinel
just recently I saw some buff on me that was talking about next IP absorb size increased by X, what's that about? I can't find anything like that in the spellbook or in the guide
is that just some type of resolve or is that a buggy thing?
ember arrow
Probably 4pt21
ember arrow
๐
sick sentinel
https://puu.sh/B9yck/9db866943a.png yup spot on
sick sentinel
I find those IP numbers incredibly underwhelming
the baseline ones
just unboxed protwarr a couple days ago and between IP on the gcd and BV in the same row as deva, this is pretty cancerous
tight tree
I just hate that i have to choose between doing damage (rev) and be a LITTLE more protected. i want to do damage and being tank at the same time ๐
Same boat as druids
sick sentinel
I just feel about devastate ain't nobody gottime for that
tight tree
haha yes
ember arrow
You shouls see ip for what it is. Not what it was
sick sentinel
IP makes me want to spank our hpala to just... work harder
I got dps to produce over here
ember arrow
Revenge does pitiful dps
tight tree
Yeah i get it. I remember Blizzard post when they was sharing their tank philosophy sting that tanks shouldnt choose between the two, but it seems that is no longer valid.
ember arrow
When was that
tight tree
I vaguely remember that ๐
somwhere in nighthold i think
same time we was supposed to do 75% of DPS's DPS
tight tree
Oh well more variety in playstyles this way.
remote coral
Anyone here ever quested as prot warrior during a new expansion? Was it painfully slow or was it ok? Since I am new to the specc I was thinking of questing as prot to get used to the abilites and hotkeys, etc. I'm not going to be racing for server first but I also don't want to take three times as long to get to max level ๐
light fulcrum
I quested Pala dh warri dk and druid as Tank. Everything was Fine cause you can pull everything
remote coral
ok thanks
ember arrow
tanks do less dps, but because you can pull more than a DD, it generally means the speed is equal
why are tanks so useless in wpvp now though
cosmic cargo
you can't pull that much more tbh
warrior dps specs are a bit broken for world content even
worldly spindle
i miss leveling with vengeance
eager cairn
I tanked some m+ after a year break last night on my warr and it felt so clunky ๐ฆ
I never ended up ever using IP.. are you guys in the same boat?
ember arrow
nope
eager cairn
Like shield block was enough.. granted I was only doing +10
upper spoke
Hey. Every time I login, my addons are "experiencing a large number of problems," but I updated everything in twitch.
any advice? i really dont want to delete everything and start over
winged marsh
add on developers gotta keep fixing things for the new patch, or possible some of the addons you have were abandoned by the authors
upper spoke
shouldnt 8.0 + versions of addons hosted by twitch not cause such an error message?
fury, ty for input.
thought downloading 8.0 + addons would solve issue. seems to havent
winged marsh
could still be problems even with the 8.0 versions. And again, you might have addons enabled that authors have ditched completely
upper spoke
is there an addon channel? idk why im asking prot warriors
winged marsh
upper spoke
i guess beginning of this expansions, while i "re"learned prot warrior - people here reallyt helped
eh its not WA
frigid pawn
are you using weak auras, out dated auras easily cause major performance spikes
upper spoke
hm
vocal nimbus
until a couple weeks after launch there will be addon issues
winged marsh
i really gotta clear out my WAs
vocal nimbus
have to wait until things stabilize
upper spoke
yeah i wouldnt be surprised if i got an old veng weaving WA
topaz badger
How important is it to use ignore pain? Last I tanked was in wotlk/cata and back then this didn't exsist. Do you only use it as rage dump or would you want to use it as much as possible as long as threat is fine?
kind urchin
Yeah you have to update the addon and all your auras.
upper spoke
my main concern is scrap addon
main vault
It's a rage dump
upper spoke
when u got a couple alts, manually clicking greys to delete kinda stinks
kind urchin
Rage dump mostly. It doesn't stack like it did in legion.
main vault
Or if you want a little bit more for a hit
upper spoke
xiro, w/e current warrior build, dont worry much about IP
topaz badger
so it wont make a very noticable difference in damage taken?
kind urchin
It still helps a very little bit to buffer damage but not as much.
main vault
You would just use it for a tank buster or dump rage
upper spoke
single tanking a raid boss, where aggro isn't an issue ...... when shield block is up, aggro isn't an issue, use IP
topaz badger
so probably never on aoe tanking
upper spoke
but in general dungeon scenarios ... you won't have a global cd to use on IP
kind urchin
Say you're almost capped, already have sb up or are saving it for a certain mechanic, and you have a revenge proc. Dump with ip.
topaz badger
ok ๐
upper spoke
and all those "if" are just way too much for me. tanking aoe, ull know when there is just nothing left to do to save ur butt
then u use ip
after shield block
topaz badger
haha ๐
I pretty much started playing again right before the prepatch, so I saw a bit of the old IP and it felt quite strong, but then the patch came and it wasn't nearly as strong
upper spoke
but these guys know better than me. i slacked off a bit after argus died
kind urchin
I still use it a decent amount for damage smoothing.
topaz badger
I like this "new" (for me it's new :p) mechanic of "needing active mitigation" . It's not much different from an interrupt with another button but it's nice that we have something to actually look out for.
Interrupts are pretty much baked in muscle memory, the active mitigation I still need to get planted in :p
upper spoke
yah it's a nice nuance
runic herald
Throwback to Klaxxi HC where I'd spent an entire expansion using active mitigation then there was that mechanic I had to SPECIFICALLY not use active mit for. Failed that like 30% of the time
main vault
Lol
grim prism
I was under the impression they were likely doing away with AM checks?
cosmic cargo
i think so
and hopefully, some AM checks never made sense, rather have just a hard hitting tank-buster to force you to AM
uneven mason
So far I haven't seen any in Uldir
And I think Zeppe that is how they're going to do it
like, Tanks should have control over how we deal with a mechanic from a mixture of our toolkit, rather than it being dictated to us that a single ability has to be used to negate a massive negative effect. That's always felt somewhat of a "Onyxia Scale Cloak" type issue to me
hot light
amber siren
nope it's still there
uneven mason
If you squint you can see it.
cosmic cargo
NL last boss check was so dumb
it pissed me off the first time i did it on a bear and MoU didn't work
like that's just teaching new tanks poorly
make them use physical mitigation vs magic abilities, why?
uneven mason
On, the AM check vs Molten Smash or whatever
yeah, I mean, hey, its blockable ๐
Ironfur does junk tho
cosmic cargo
or DS instead of EW
kind urchin
I like the idea of tankbusters that make you time cds in a certain order to always have one available.
uneven mason
Warriors are more the flipside, we always have a CD available (and are generally using it)
kind urchin
Blizzard, can I have as many off gcd cooldowns as a paladin in FFXIV? I'd like to have an entire hotbar dedicated to cds. Thank you in advance.
cold wren
uneven mason
I prefer the toolkits of WoW, they're much more streamlined
solid sun
I'm late to the party, but I definitely hope they do away with am checks
uneven mason
FFXIV seems to just have a lot of "this does exactly what this other thing does, but its not that other hting so HERES A BUTTON"
Everquest 2 has a ton of that.
uneven mason
well right, that is where EQ2 kinda got into trouble
I think on my 85 pal I had something like 38 abilities on my bar
and a lot of them did around the same effect
but they had different pieces to the "Heroic Combo"
or whatever the system was called
Where you could chain stuff together with other group members
main vault
So same idea then
But these are all solo, and the combo gives different threat and dmg
solid sun
Were you a big EQ fan
uneven mason
I was, actually
I couldn't take EQ2 for long
It was more grindy than like, an asian MMO on release
it made Lineage II look fast
solid sun
Lol
Are you looking forward to that Pantheon MMO? I read it's basically a spiritual successor to EQ
kind urchin
I saw some gameplay and every ability had a 12 second cd. And there weren't enough to have something to push all the time. If they did something about that then I'd think about it.
uneven mason
Yeah Rhino, I'm looking forward to it, some of my ex guildmates (from EQ) are actually developers on it heh. Much smaller community EQ was. Kinda like Cheers, everybody knows your name. So the top guilds on the servers tended to get recognition.
crisp smelt
Did blizzard actually respond to the criticism around protection? I cant find anything either on US nor EU forums :/
signal plover
Not for awhile
uneven mason
New criticism or like, from early beta?
In a round about way they responded by giving us small buffs?
molten radish
RUN!
fierce juniper
That's because the module isn't being maintained at the moment. It was showing up as like 2k dps so it was removed for the mean time
strong forum
ah thats good, dont wanna feed the memes
fierce juniper
ye
ember arrow
feed the memes
that way we will be very weak according to forums
and then we will get buffed
opaque pagoda
I would think that itโs hard to sim it
IP forces you to make awkward decisions about whether to do damage and build rage, or spend rage on fairly weak defensive options
Iโm not exactly sure what variables youโd use for โbaselineโ sim
uneven mason
Damage sims mostly unimportant for tanking.
uneven mason
right, I mean knowing the potential is good
stark sage
unless those defensives give DPS, like SB
uneven mason
or Demo shout
opaque pagoda
Prot paladins seem to be capable of intense AoE DPS
But TC spam is certainly burst strong AoE burst too
uneven mason
TC spam best Spam
opaque pagoda
I donโt really like it that much, it feels a little awkward
My entire issue with Prot warriors is that you build all this rage that you canโt spend
TC spam time is one of the worst offenders
You have TONS of rage and no way to get rid of it without screwing up the cycle
errant thorn
Next episode of Skyhold Talks will be livestreamed on Twitch and later uploaded to YouTube on August 11th, 2018. More specific information like time can be found here: https://twitter.com/Skyholdgg/status/1026187216492666881
Guests are: @hot locust @fierce juniper @final mist @shut summit
If you have any questions for the guests and don't wish to use Twitter, you can private message me here on Discord with your question for the show.
stark sage
poggers
shut summit
๐
final mist
fierce juniper
kind urchin
sick sentinel
thunder stomp long time.
astral crystal
NEATO
tender venture
when is the next balance patch?
uneven mason
Going to guess after the raid testing they did we'll see a bit of tuning
nothing major though
until they get the flood of data after 1 week of normal/HC
astral crystal
we were promised a new channel icon
dire oasis
@errant thorn
errant thorn
@dire oasis 
dire oasis
plz craft a drinking game
for podcast
take a drink for every time sense mentions the ๐ ๐ โฌ
errant thorn
sorry not trying to damage peoples organs
dire oasis
:pepehands:
errant thorn
jovial forge
Looking to go prot in BFA any advice
frank mantle
strong forum
exactly nascent, thats what IP is for, rage dump
but in BFA you will not have as much rage, thus revenge will mostly be used only as the free proc, not as a dump
wide juniper
Right
It's moved further down my bars now, only use when not free during group encounters obvs
sick sentinel
Im having second thoughts about levelin as prot, anyone leveled up to 120 on beta?
undone sun
i did before they changed xp
sick sentinel
well did it go well before?
undone sun
yeah it was fine
autumn laurel
Tl;Dr for Prot: stomp the yard
vague belfry
any good youtbue channels with BFA high prot war keys?
wide juniper
@autumn laurel fact
kind urchin
I'ma level prot just like I did in beta and pull everything I can find at one time.
sand relic
Is it true prot tanks are not lookin good in bfa right now
tiny sphinx
oh god, this again
sand relic
?
tiny sphinx
no one is looking good, the game is watered down to shitty american beer levels, there, now you don't have to wonder
ember arrow
what are you basing your opinion on?
undone sun
defensively and offensively warrior is more than acceptable for mythics
sand relic
i was told they are good for dps, but for defensive they are lacking compared to other tanks
ember arrow
not everyone is in #prot 24/7 like me, so dont dismiss questions you might have heard before @tiny sphinx
sand relic
I kno im asking are warriors at the bottom compared to other tanks for defensive ?
also how will warrior tanks be in mythic raiding
undone sun
same as before, punishing but viable
ember arrow
i think, from what i've seen, tanks will stay ina similar spot relatively
tiny sphinx
the prot warrior credo is: "least forgiving of mistakes" in giant 80 foot concrete font
ember arrow
pretty much
final mist
That's not to say we aren't good defensively
We are, especially now that most of the damage intake is both physical and blockable (with the few magic "tank busters" being reliably handled by our cooldowns, to a degree equal to or better than other tanks).
The problem is that if you aren't good, it's going to be extremely obvious.
ruby berry
I mean, all I want is to be invincible and to have mass grip, and infernal leap, self healing, bear form and stagger. How is that so much to ask? True balance.
kind urchin
When it comes to cooldowns and mitigation warrior is one of the best. If you play it well. If not you'll be tanking the floor a lot.
cloud bone
with booming BV making demoralizing shout a pseudo offensive CD should we be using it on cooldown or saving it?
or is it a per fight basis?
kind urchin
Situational.
If you know you won't need the dr for a mechanic before the cd is up. Pop that bad boy and lay some hate.
solid sun
So I know people have stated that they haven't seen any Active Mitigation checks in Uldir. Is that also true for the dungeons you guys have tested?
final mist
When people are talking about AM checks, they mean shit like "You have to have SB / SotR / Ironfur / DS' shield, etc, active for the ability."
IIRC there aren't many / any of those.
solid sun
Right. I just hadn't seen anyone mention dungeon bosses. Only Uldir
shut summit
There are boss abilities you can/ should block but nothing like dagrul that sends you flying if not up
misty rain
So if I wanna push Mythic+ to the limits should I bother leveling a warrior and hope for a buff or just roll DK now?
waxen cradle
@misty rain : I will say this and leave it at this statement. If your goal is to simply push the weekly required completion for the max item level from the chest weekly then it does not matter what tank you play. I will however say if the Prot Warrior is your favorite tank and you enjoy it the most then play the Prot Warrior because in my opinion no one in here is going to tell you otherwise. I will however say that if your goal is to push the highest level of M+ dungeons possible and quite possibly go for the MDI then you are most likely better off playing one of the meta tanks. It really is a matter of what you intend to do in BFA and what your goals are.
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Exactly; warriors have great aoe dps..great for fast clearing and good threat generation..and great mobility for dungeons as well. But if you're trying to compete for top keys completed it becomes more about various 'tricks' to break certain key affixes or specific encounters...paladins and other tanks have better tricks for that..which is why they become more desirable at very difficult key levels.
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
"bring the player, not the class" - blizzard before this whole shitshow
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
pushing m+ is more about team synergy than class makeup
fringe marten
They've tried to schill that trash for a while jokan but it's never been really true...although any tank is sufficient for all content; pushing mythic raids early or pushing super tough challenge mode content (M+ etc) you need more specific classes.
tiny sphinx
if you know your party and know what they are capable of and communicate well you'll do just fine, and yes, class makeup does matter, but it's not the end-all beat-all approach
sick sentinel
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tiny sphinx
can't be black and white about it
fringe marten
To be fair that's never going to change. You can't have dramatically different tanks/dps that have different utility and methods of doing damage..and have them perfectly balanced for everything.
waxen cradle
Agreed @tiny sphinx but teams will always look for any tricks or gimmicks if you will to make runs more successful and will also always look for tanks with utility that favors there group make up. So while a well balanced group can complete high M+ as well as any tank. I find certain tanks will always be favored for the things they can bring to the group.
tiny sphinx
i mean if you're talking bleeding edge top 10 m+ teams, sure
fringe marten
At some point, when you're really pushing the limits of the content, the abilities you're able to bring to the table for the content matter a lot. So some class will come out on top as the better dps, better tank, better healer..etc. Sadly warriors just haven't been the 'better' tank for bleeding edge content for a long time.
tiny sphinx
"bleeding edge" is a funny term
waxen cradle
As I stated in my initial post it really is about what your intended goals are
fringe marten
I'm just a stubborn ass and I literally have only had one toon on my account for as long as I've ever played WoW (since vanilla) and it's been a warrior. If you are seriously competitive you really have to have other tanks to bring to different encounters.
gray warren
^Just level multiple tanks
fringe marten
However if you extend your 'goals' out to longer timelines, or aren't trying to do the most challenging mythic+, literally anything is viable.
opaque pagoda
lol
misty rain
So what's the tank meta then?
opaque pagoda
yeah, gear up six tanks in tandem, solid strategy
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Krom...that's literally what seriously competitive raiders do.
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Maybe not 6 but usually like 3 or 4.
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
they still ultimately pick one tank to funnel most of the gear to
tiny sphinx
I have all tanks leveled, except druid for obvious reasons
misty rain
not DH?
fringe marten
(if you actually look at methods recruitment requirements I believe it's...your main, plus 3 raid ready alts..that you can play at a top competitive level)
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Yes they have 'main' tanks...but often those same players have multiple of the SAME tank type even. (for split runs)
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
right now protection warriors are thoroughly mediocre and not very fun to play, the only reason to play one is a serious commitment to the class
fringe marten
If you're doing split runs...gearing a couple characters with Heroic raid quality loot is honestly pretty easy (just time invested is the key) and if you throw M+ into the mix, the ability to gear your alts really isn't 'hard' it's just a matter of playing wow like it's your job.
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
? Not fun to play? that's subjective.
opaque pagoda
I liked the legion playstyle quite a bit
sure, it's subjective
but also, you know, true
fringe marten
I agree skull...with everything on gcd warrior feels clunky..but every tank is like that atm.
undone sun
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Krom, you just said "my opinion is, you know, true'
sick sentinel
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dusk sluice
I just want charge off the GCD T.T
fringe marten
that's uhh? odd.
opaque pagoda
I've only played the plate classes, but warriors are by far the most changed in terms of playstyle
sick sentinel
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fringe marten
Warriors also have a higher skill cap than most other tanks, or at least were during legion with IP off gcd, and demo shout etc...we had a lot of things to juggle.
opaque pagoda
I don't really feel like having a debate about what "fun" is
sick sentinel
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crystal night
What legos you boys think will be best for leveling?
undone sun
"debating" subjectivity is pointless, just don't generalize and force your "true" opinion
opaque pagoda
legendary wrist improved the playstyle
sick sentinel
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crystal night
Bracers and belt?
opaque pagoda
I also think they should bake in never surrender for a higher absorb at low health
fringe marten
Krom, not asking you to define fun...but saying that your opinion of warriors being less fun than other classes, is 'truth' is crazy. It's purely subjective to the person.
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
if they insist on keeping IP on the GCD, then it need to do damage so that it doesn't just feel like a pause button in your rotation
sick sentinel
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undone sun
@crystal night probably a mix of belt/bracers/shoulders/boots for mobility
sick sentinel
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dusk sluice
thats funny cause they praised the warriors for giving detail feedback on their forums compared to other classes
main vault
Tbf there is a difference in caring and following
They just read it all and just not agree
undone sun
well, they do.
you just don't see them scouring public discords
sick sentinel
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undone sun
there's still a lot that goes on, it's not just about what pleases the player base
fringe marten
I agree on that; I honestly 'dislike' pushing my IP key...because I feel like I could have done something more 'useful' ...like damage...because IP feels so lackluster right now. Being off the GCD (regardless of how strong IP was or wasn't) allowed it to be funneled in as needed while playing the 'rest' of the warrior class. IE it was good.
sick sentinel
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undone sun
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
I guaran-fucking-tee you that IP on the GCD is a direct result of how they're designing other classes; they put abilities like light of the protector on the GCD (which is realistically a very minor difference) and now they're thinking "well, if we do that then we can't just leave IP off the GCD, even though it breaks the class"
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
I subjectively disagree with you
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
there is no rage dump
sick sentinel
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opaque pagoda
you fill up your rage bar and sit on it
sick sentinel
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main vault
Revenge and IP are both rage dumps
opaque pagoda
revenge is free most of the time
undone sun
not a reliable dump, at least on aoe
main vault
Rage dump don't have to be off the gcd
opaque pagoda
and shield block is on an enormous cooldown
crystal night
@undone sun TY brother!
sick sentinel
One message removed from a suspended account.
main vault
I don't agree the SB CD is enormous
fringe marten
It doesn't break the class it just turns us into a much 'slower' paced version of ourselves. Before a good warrior could have very high APM and be doing a lot of things both offensively and defensively...now, you're doing all those same things but it's like, they're all in a traffic jam with each other.
main vault
It's fits well into Warrior cds
sick sentinel
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