all defensive talents have some quantifiable value that increases EHP
#protection
stark sage
grim prism
I mean this is really not a meaningful segue
Im not trying to say EHP doesnt matter
But I am trying to say Indom sucks and needs a rework
Probably*
stark sage
it doesnt feel good as a talent
grim prism
Like i said, we havent seen live content at relevant stat points
So nobody knows for sure
stark sage
i dont think it will ever surpass bolster + AM
stark sage
but that isnt because it sucks
grim prism
It could never compete with deva, and it will never compete with bolster
stark sage
deva was much better in legion
grim prism
I mean no talent sucks if youre taking it in a vacuum of adding shit you dont have by baseline
grim prism
But thats like saying ravager doesnt suck because it gives you more damage and some parry
stark sage
well when you are comparing EHP increases of each talent in a vacuum, indom is competitive on that row
but when you start adding in stuff like talent synergy, and raid mechanics
junior igloo
Ravager is cool
grim prism
Even taken in a vacuum my feelyfeels say bolster blows indom out of the fucking water, and if i werent at work right now i would be inclined to napkinmath the point out
uneven mason
I mean, if they took bolster and split it in two
grim prism
Youre looking at LS on over 10% theoretical uptime even without AM, with 100% block chance during (which equates to a shitload of DR on demand)
uneven mason
Made Never Suddernder the 100% block for 15s on a 1min CD and Bolster a 1min CD reduction on Last stand
stark sage
the problem is 10% hp looks like shit
grim prism
Versus... what, an extra 4k HP or something? In a class where none of our mitigation is healthpool-based
Averaged out over a fight of constant damage and arbitrary length, bolster is giving you almost half the benefit of indom anyway just based on the HP increase
well "almost half" is overstating it
But still
uneven mason
Right so, back to the original point, it isn't that Indomitable is "Bad as all that" but Bolster is a synergistic demigod of that tier
grim prism
I dont have my math napkins on me
Sure having 10% more HP in a vacuum is nice, but by the same logic, ravager is a good talent lol
/rant
stark sage
🤔
modern brook
I didnt even realize talents were up for discussion past first row
strong forum
usually arent
uneven mason
Its not
grim prism
Indom will remain the "talent of choice" for prots who dont know how to actually play prot, heavy emphasis on the airquotes
People who need to sponge because they dont understand their buttons
hollow pine
It's clear they ran out of dev time with protwar
uneven mason
This is more or less that 10% raw health isn't horrible, boring yes, not horrible, what it competes with however, is really strong on its own, and has synergy with other talents, thus, is being propped up.
stark sage
im just saying indom has its place, and dont be surprised if it is recommended in a specific situation
modern brook
My only changes to current protadin is taking IP off global
finite cairn
Ravaged is a good talent because it lets you dps a spot without being there, from 0 dps to some dps, that’s a huge gain 😏
grim prism
Fair
modern brook
feels so bad
undone sun
i agree that it, in a vacuum, has it's own place
grim prism
@finite cairn thats the joke
undone sun
but i do not agree that it'll show up in BFA by strict comparison
junior igloo
@grim prism
I'm not that busy 😃
Last Stand: 15/180 up-time on 30 % EHP =~ 23 % DR = 1.92 % average DR
- Indomitable = 10 % EHP = 9.1 % DR
Total = ~11 % DR (12.4 % EHP)
Bolster: 15/120 up-time on ~23 % DR and guaranteed block (43 % DR) = ~ 7 % total DR (~ 8 % average EHP equivalent)
uneven mason
0_o -89% Aura mod on Ravager damage feelsbadman
modern brook
11% higher than 0 😎
finite cairn
Yeah I know I’m just being a shit lol
uneven mason
Heroic Throwing at a single mob does more damage I think than Ravager
undone sun
it did in legion
uneven mason
thereyouDPS'd aspot
grim prism
Where are you getting the ~23% DR
junior igloo
Raveger on AoE is better than Shield Wall (it's almost 50 % DR on average with 12s duration on only 1 minute CD + basically unlimited free Revenges, which can be abused with Vengeance).
undone sun
iirc the damage from ravager over the 8 seconds or however long it was, did less than a single revenge did
and each tic was a heroic throw
junior igloo
But that build will not be played because synergy between AM + cooldown talents and because AoE is not that prevalent in most content
grim prism
I gotta hop on a call
undone sun
even if you isolate ravager, it was quite shit. comparing it to AM and HR made it absolutely trash
grim prism
I'll ping you after work lol
finite cairn
Now they just need to scale it to use saurfang’s heroic throw
uneven mason
Its all like...
This talent isn't bad but "AM" - end expression
ravager is bad tho
If they'd let us do full damage with it at least
finite cairn
AM in its current form and booming voice/bolster synergy is going to pretty damn hard to beat by anything
junior igloo
So, 310 % AP is hardly less than single Revenge (46 %), but I don't think that DPS is the intent of the talent.
uneven mason
Yeah, makes me kinda dread 8.1
solid sun
Why do you dread 8.1
uneven mason
Because they might decide that AM is a problem with balancing our talent tree
Because, TBH it is
modern brook
^
hot locust
@junior igloo It doesnt actually hit for anywhere near that value even in total.
uneven mason
So they'll come up with a new and inventive way
finite cairn
It’ll probably involve a full rework and hurt our ability to reset cds while giving slightly improved passive mitigation most likely
Gotta get Johnny no thumbs to be able to warrior tank
uneven mason
I can see it now, Bolster reduces LS CD by 1min, AM replaced by Walls Fellesqu talent
dusk locust
or make AM baseline
undone sun
i wont put it past them for doing that right at the start of a new tier, but i don't think that'll happen
junior igloo
@hot locust
Might be, I only looked at the wowhead tooltips.
Either way, Ravager is supposed to be a defensive cooldown on AoE imo
finite cairn
Give us thundergods vigor as a talent
hot locust
Pretty sure it has a nasty -% mod on it.
finite cairn
I’ll die happy
chilly brook
I want to keep this prot warrior dream alive
uneven mason
yeah its 44% AP * 7 *0.11
tiny sphinx
if blizzard is good at anything, it is identifying areas that create too wide a skill gap and adding water till it's 1 ppm skill
solid sun
If they want us to be the proactive high CD use tank, I don't think they'll mess with AM very much at all tbh
chilly brook
@dusk locust tbh I think all tanks should have things like AM
It actually incentivizes you to do more than the bare minimum
hollow pine
Monk does atleast
modern brook
I played Vengance in legion
I forgot i had a cooldown through most of the expansion
chilly brook
And it’s one of the things that made me play monk for so long
junior igloo
People don't like parry because it's unreliable and RNGesus, but if you have 10 mobs attacking you, or 5 mobs 2 attacks each with ravager up, the chances of not parrying any is less than 0.1 %
It quickly becomes much more reliable on multiple lower hitting targets compared to one big guy
hollow pine
Yeah monk is going to be my backup, played it too much though
Haven't touched war since wod
chilly brook
Prot warrior is the dream for me rn
hollow pine
Yeah despite it's shortcomings I'm enjoying it
stray wedge
However, whilst the chance of not parrying any is less than 0.1% with 10 mobs attacking you at whatever parry rating, it is important to stress that that does not mean you are getting the average value of your parry
chilly brook
I have free choice with my guild as well
solid sun
I don't think picking warrior will gimp raid progress.
chilly brook
I guess that’s what happens when you parse low 90s to oranges
solid sun
Even in the current state of tank specs.
stray wedge
And if you are in danger of dying in a short period of time, parry is weak at preventing that
chilly brook
And don’t fuck up
hollow pine
Monk is a safer bet even if it's minor
chilly brook
And as it stands we need someone to consistently keep the monk debuff on the target
hollow pine
And on mythic minor can matter
chilly brook
Well as content progresses higher, that small difference becomes larger and larger
hollow pine
Yeah
chilly brook
Iirc they aren’t letting us test Mythic Uldir and heroic was hugely overtuned was it not?
solid sun
If I were to pick a tank spec outside of warrior specifically for the purposes of trying to optimize my ability to tank raids and "not gimp progress," even then I probably wouldn't go Monk. I'd probably pick Paladin over anything else outside of warriors.
hollow pine
Paladin is solid just a bit bland
tiny sphinx
well, paladin and vdh are the least changed, so that's probably why
solid sun
I think the block change is pretty big for both warriors and paladins.
hollow pine
I wish they kept holy power for prot, and chi for brm for that matter
solid sun
Unless you specifically meant tool kit
junior igloo
Paladin seems to be tuned strong right now, but I worry for them in the long term tbh.
They are super vulnerable design wise. Low uptime on SotR, few cooldowns to cover.
hollow pine
Bastion of light makes them solid imo
junior igloo
BoL increases your SotR uptime from 40 % to 50 % (roughly).
What about the other 50 %? 😃
AD with the CD reducing talent + GoaK covers another 10 %
Still 40 % of praying for blocks
hollow pine
Yeah i guess
chilly brook
I mean why paladin over monk?
They seem the same as legion in terms of mitigation, really stronk when it’s up not so much when it’s not
junior igloo
Well it's a little better because of the mastery change
chilly brook
I mean like the 7% dr
cosmic cargo
their EHP outside of AM is considerably higher than warrior's now
junior igloo
Instead of increasing your ridiculous SotR even more it now gives consistent reliable reduction
Well
chilly brook
And Monks EHP should be higher
junior igloo
Warriors have 45 % strength into armor conversion
chilly brook
“EHP”
junior igloo
So I'm not so sure about that
chilly brook
Since for some reason people want to treat stagger as “EHP”
cosmic cargo
monks have highest EHP
chilly brook
But if my goal were to pull out all the stops and play the most tanky or “most optimized” tank for raiding it would be monk or Druid
solid sun
I think you underestimate the change to block and the mastery change for paladins
I'm not trying to say I'm 100% correct or anything like that, but from what I have seen and read so far, it looks like Paladins are going to be crazy strong.
solid sun
Bear is probably the weakest, tbh
main vault
Not in raid
solid sun
You have to somehow manage to stay awake while playing it.
main vault
Well you'll be killing bosses so that'll help
ember arrow
thats...not what he means
uneven mason
New Druid Form "Sponge Bear" - 37% more Mana absorbent than your average tank.
main vault
Lol
chilly brook
I'm sure the block changes will do well
Still probably won't make them preferable to a tank that doesn't rely on % chances to mitigate when their AM is on CD
hollow pine
Consistency is king
uneven mason
Hence, Monk being pref
of many folks
high AM uptime, Stagger smooths damage like nothing else
hollow pine
Yep
The moment they took it away from other tanks they created tanke imbalance in raiding
Outside of cheesing and utility
uneven mason
its more like 98% uptime (if you use purify more than twice a minute) I mean, lets not go overboard here /s
cosmic cargo
I know you're joking but it's more like 4+ purifies per minute
old zephyr
Shame
I don't care What the haters says i'ma be protwarrioring for bfa and rocking it
somber dragon
my problem is i kinda like all the fucking tanks >.< but assuming a unit of time "1 legion" being the time investment that it took to keep 1 toon ready for "progression" raiding (where mythic was the goal, but never really achieved due to a few... lackluster players, heroic did get basically farm-able in EN and NH), what would time time commitment of having a `toon in the same condition for bfa? (:
cuz if it is even remotely close to 1:1 i'm probably gonna be stuck with one `toon i can keep geared 😄
uneven mason
I'd think that our progress time per character will be shorter due to them learning a lot about how shitty grinds are shitty with Artifacts
solid sun
I agree. I think the time required to "get geared" will be less in BfA than Legion.
somber dragon
i'm doubting it will be enough "better" for me to have more than 2 though, which still makes my brain spazm in decision mode
they're all kinda fun
uneven mason
I'd say go Warrior and BDK that gives you the awesome option and "that dude with Gorefiends for a shoe in raidspot" option
chilly brook
Meh bear is boring and so is pally imo
dusk locust
my co-tank is blood dk so we have grasp if we need it 😛
chilly brook
Can’t get into DH either
somber dragon
i *like" my warrior a lot, mostly because the DPS specs feel "good" to me, UH and frost (for example) feel "off" to me, and i'm hesitant about the other hybrids because i don't ever want to get nudged towards healing by someone else 😄
i'm kinda really over healing
solid sun
Fury is a very, very, very solid off-spec to have.
chilly brook
Arms>fury :kappa
uneven mason
Warriors have 2 DPS specs to pick from, generally one does fairly well
somber dragon
i personally like arms more, but they are both a lot of fun for me with 190ish ilvl (full scumbag darkshore that i can find), and no leggos
uneven mason
Monks Paladins and DH only have 1
Druids have 2, but really, who counts boomkin
DK also ahve two
so, Warrior and DK, - 4 DPS specs one of them will endup being good!
somber dragon
i can deal with UH as long as there aren't any "fuck your pet" fights 😄
like who the fuck was that dude in cata....
uneven mason
which one
somber dragon
the air genie looking fucker
uneven mason
the "We did this dude once but wtf with the drops"
somber dragon
the guild i was in was intent on clearing him as often as possible
uneven mason
My guild did him for progression and I think enver looked back
somber dragon
that was the beginning of the end for my healing career 😄
uneven mason
Although a lot of that had to do with my GM getting vertigo from the flying stuff.
chilly brook
Wadu hek
somber dragon
i get that watching someone else play a fps with a really sensitive mouse and no finesse 😄
chilly brook
Sounds like old people problems
dusk locust
FeelsBadMan
somber dragon
no, that would be having to make sure you get enough fiber
and talking about things like that casually over supper 😄
uneven mason
Its true
grim prism
@junior igloo I found my napkins. Assuming EHP=(HP)/(1-DR%) , and assuming your base healthpool is equal to 1V, once you plug in the numbers and average for uptime, indom gives you an average EHP of 1.219V and bolster gives you an average EHP of 1.228V. So the two are "balanced" in the sense that there is a less than 1% difference in average EHP over a fight of arbitrary length and damage
However
uneven mason
holyshit FLASHBACK
grim prism
This means indom is unequivocally LESS EHP than bolster (albeit by a small amount)
somber dragon
LETS DO THE TIMEWARP AGAIN!!!!!!!
grim prism
And when you factor in AM, there is simply no contest
somber dragon
where's a mage when you need one
chilly brook
Basically what he’s saying is you have a 33.333% chance of surviving. Repeating of course.
uneven mason
So uh what was said earlier is correct - in a vacuum Bolster and Indom are balanced
Until you consider all external things that impact them
grim prism
So i guess I agree with you about the two being individually balanced with each other in their own tier, but youre going to want to doublecheck your numbers above
uneven mason
think the numbers might've been from Marok
somber dragon
it's just that magic thing called synergy
grim prism
Well, then Marok needs to recheck his numbers too
uneven mason
in his "HP are important" post
grim prism
But its also important to note that fights are not infinite in length with constant DPS, and similar to how we would stack cooldowns to increase total DPS throughput, so too will using bolster during high-DTPS phases result in higher total damage mitigated
uneven mason
😨 questioning Odyn
grim prism
Meaning that even in a vacuum, bolster is arguably stronger
I did this in Legion with swing timer management and I was correct then too @uneven mason
I am a god at napkin math
Trust me
This isnt to be like "AHA GOTCHA", this is just to point out that even in the context of pure spongetanking, bolster may outperform indom
And note that if unblockable damage is factored in, indom will still SLIGHTLY outperform bolster in terms of raw average EHP (since we are not figuring in DR from the autoblocking)
Note also that these numbers are based on the 43% block DR meiffert used above in his equations
stark sage
yes but from doing this math can you see my point that the rows are balanced in terms of EHP within an acceptable amount of variance
ofc im not campaigning for indom
just that it is balanced
and doesnt need buffs
it just is plain and kinda shite
misty rain
Think prot warriors will ever be viable in high level M+?
grim prism
Yes
undone sun
probably
misty rain
Seems like we got shafted in Legion. Debating rolling the Guardian druid instead.
uneven mason
Warrior OP in TOS/ABT, EN too more or less, NH sucked, toomuch unblockable/magic garbage
charred vigil
I’m also on the fence. Problem I have is I love fury as an off spec. Windwalker, Frost, unholy, and ret don’t do it for me
misty rain
Feral and Resto can be fun though.
uneven mason
We are viable for all content Darkblue
misty rain
Well yea, WoW in general is a rather easy game. But I just like to min/max
uneven mason
Possibly approaching strong in some of it
Optimal - no, protection is not the "Optimal" minmaxy tank right now
charred vigil
I play with brand new to the game healers and a couple “clicker” dps. Makes me sweat it a little with warrior.
misty rain
@charred vigil lol
I just think I wanna push M+ keys in bfa. I feel like I missed out on that in legion.
Cause warriors were trash.
tender imp
druid is arguably even worse for m+
grim prism
Warriors were great at M+ in legion???
misty rain
Yea wasn't bad. I just had a bunch of groups not invite warriors at all towards the end there.
shadow cypress
i think i keyed a +17 seat....god damn that was painful
grim prism
Those are the type of people who put LINK MASTER ACHIEVE BIG DICKS ONLY for a +6
charred vigil
I was asked to change to arms for execute on argus instead of Prot in my guild
shadow cypress
and yeah...it was hard to get into groups towards the end....couldnt get into a pug to save my life....like, i actually had someone whisper me and tell me to reroll bear >.>
misty rain
^
solid sun
I think the only time I really felt just absolutely crushingly defeated as a prot warrior in Legion was in Antorus.
shadow cypress
but i tank with a bear....and i hate them
solid sun
The doggos really just hit me like bull dozers.
shadow cypress
they can cheese out of mechanics too easily
the dogs sucked so much...i finally worked out how to survive them, meanwhile the bear was over there sniffing fel flowers and shit
course, he would also intentionally wipe the raid if he got bored
misty rain
Really convincing me to roll this bear instead now yall.
solid sun
I wouldn't personally because I think bears are exceedingly boring to play.
misty rain
Playing the warrior feels so rage starved right now in pre-patch.
uneven mason
I never had issues with Doggos as a warrior?
grim prism
prepatch
solid sun
Warriors are definitely not rage starved.
shadow cypress
i had problems when we first got into heroic
uneven mason
Unless we REALLY got unlucky and stacks got too high then it was painful.
The dogs just tore everyone up tho, Bears and Monks could kinda cheese it with their HP pool
misty rain
Maybe I'm just spec'd wrong.
grim prism
solid sun
@uneven mason I never said I was good at prot warrior during Antorus 😉 Doggos really did just demolish me, though. I never did figure out how to beat them.
misty rain
Devestator?
wild atlas
I would just like ignore pain off GCD, but not quite that many complaints right now.
shadow cypress
course at that point i had just switched from fury and didnt have gear XD
uneven mason
Dogs were one of the few fights you had to really time your SB if you had a gap and got mawed
you'd drop like a rock tied to an anvil
shadow cypress
@solid sun it was all about timing spell reflect
uneven mason
^^^
their big hits were both SR and Blockable
so you'd take like next to nothing if you lined it up
shadow cypress
save the SB for maw and spell reflect for the other
opaque pagoda
I didn’t do any mythic raiding, but I felt very good about my overall performance as prot in legion
misty rain
Do rocks fall faster when tied to anvils?
opaque pagoda
M+ felt very strong
uneven mason
yeah ABT Prot was insanely strong IMO once you got 2p/4p stack going at first
shadow cypress
depends on the size of both and how far they are falling
uneven mason
infinite rage max IPs all the time
misty rain
I guess the shape of the rock matters too.
shadow cypress
i did enjoy pissing the heals off with IP XD
uneven mason
They sink faster, water, not air!
shadow cypress
cause it counting as heals on the meters was hillarious
uneven mason
Anyway, no Rocks and Anvils don't fall faster, it was for emphasis
opaque pagoda
I actually completely agree that IP needed a nerf, I just hate the current state of affairs
uneven mason
can I get some Napkin math on that Rhino
But yeah in ABT was the first time I felt stupidly strong for HC progression all of Legion
Eating Scyth #12 while the druid is screaming for externals at #5
Crit block OP
Anyway, Darkbllue - play the class that lets you slap folks with a Car door
solid sun
I actually really like the current state of prot warrior, Krom. What has you not liking it?
solid sun
I still firmly believe it's not really too bad at all once you get used to it.
main vault
It's not
main vault
But people like to cry about it
uneven mason
^^
solid sun
And like, in beta it seems like IP is strictly a rage dump anyways.
uneven mason
I'm fairly sure its issue #1 on Kroms list of "Why I don't like BFA"
uneven mason
Its meant to be a small damage smoother, with the benefit of cycling our CDs through AM
without AM, IP would feel like a balsawood thong
main vault
Which means War has the only defensive separate rage dump in the game
solid sun
I am a little concerned about active mitigation checks in bfa, though.
main vault
Are there any?
solid sun
Because everyone talks about using Shield Block twice, then using LS for 15 seconds of more SB, and I'm just kinda like... so does that mean we don't have to worry about popping SB for those 15 seconds?
uneven mason
I'd use LS first TBH
since the rage from using SB will take 3seconds off its cooldown
But yeah the AM check is a solid question
possibly they're doing away with that sort of mechanic
main vault
I think they are
uneven mason
and just allowing AM to be like, mitigation tools
civic bison
@solid sun to answer your question, when last stand is up with the bolster talent you block every attack for 15s so no you don't have to worry about SB for that duration
uneven mason
right, good gameplay doesn't mean rotating them around boss ability, but rather making the choice when you can minimize the damage you take with each one.
civic bison
every melee*
shadow cypress
im just a slight bit worried about the magic damage i've been hearing about from beta
uneven mason
@civic bison Bolster block chance is not Active Mitgation for the AM checks
solid sun
I know that, @civic bison
I'm asking specifically about AM checks, which Last Stand doesn't count towards.
What Ikarikaze said.
uneven mason
Some attacks require AM to be up
or its generally a 1shot
thus far I don't think there are any in Uldir though
civic bison
yeah I understand what you mean by that now, my b
solid sun
No worries.
uneven mason
Its a common point of confusion
civic bison
yeah I missed a few words lol and only saw last stand, and shield block duration
solid sun
It's come up a few times in Antorus.
But generally having LS up or SW when I just don't have Shield Block available has been just fine.
But I don't count on that because Legion content in the pre-patch.
So meh
who knows
I certainly would like to see active mitigation checks gone, though.
somber dragon
facepalms
civic bison
lol look at the breakdown before you post anything
it only sims basics and old war
somber dragon
yet the druid has moonfire, pulverise, maul, thrash, mangle....
yeah
yer data == shit 😄
uneven mason
man 1500 auto attack DPS
hollow gorge
Dmg taken?
uneven mason
whatsup
somber dragon
without seeing TC/SS in there
uneven mason
Its literally auto attack and an old war potion
somber dragon
there's no way they are making enough rage to do their job correctly
uneven mason
that sim is professional grade trolling
somber dragon
so your data is shit
grim prism
Fuck me I'm gonna run out of napkins
somber dragon
(i found this out the hard way) your girlfriend's underwear are not an acceptable substitute for napkins in this situation 😄
solid sun
I'm curious about how this sim was done?
main vault
Lol tank sims
somber dragon
the sim is shit
somber dragon
and outside of top100 guilds, tank dps is pretty much irrelevant
main vault
Not true
hollow gorge
Tank dps is irrelevant?
uneven mason
Tank DPS is not irrelevant
hollow gorge
L U L
somber dragon
it's not going to be a make or break factor for most guilds out there.... at least from my experiences
uneven mason
I mean, on beta Prot warriors are giving full DPS classes a run for their money in AE pulls...
Watch Sense's streams
somber dragon
irrelevant to the choice of which tank to bring, not irrelevant to the game as a whole
uneven mason
he crushes pulls heh
solid sun
I'd caution you against hitting people with a "L U L" after sharing the sim you just shared.
Seems a little silly to me.
uneven mason
Its mostly TC/Rev for AE since they both have a 2GCD CD during Avatar :D, Generally won't even need to press SS until you're down a few targets.
some IPs to help your healer out.
mebbie
solid sun
Our abilities honestly feel so good during Avatar.
somber dragon
my healer can generally smack me upside the head at any point in time, so i try to keep her happy 😄
hollow gorge
Feelsgood during avatar
The constant rage cap feels so good
Currently prot is so damn clunky to play
With IP on GCD the spec just feels wrong
solid sun
How it is clunky when all you do is pop old war potions and auto attack, though?
solid sun
^^
broken kite
Who cares about rage with ip on gcd
undone sun
rage capping also isn't a good thing ¯_(ツ)_/¯
somber dragon
IP on gcd doesn't do nearly as much, since IP is not used the same way as when it was off the gcd
uneven mason
IP performs its intended role just fine on the GCD....since we're not pressing it every 2 seconds like we did during ABT
Since we don't have like 6000RPM
hollow gorge
I don't agree
uneven mason
Ok
hollow gorge
IP shouldn't be on GCD
uneven mason
I mean, what would you take off the GCD for the other tanks then?
Deathstrike off the GCD for BDK?
somber dragon
IP on GCD, hotp (pali) on gcd, FR (bears) on GCD, none of these changes break any of these specs at all.
hollow gorge
Comparing IP to Deathstrike
undone sun
DS is different
somber dragon
putting purify brew on gcd for monks wouldn't even hurt them (is it on gcd??)
undone sun
i know they have some brew on gcd now
strong forum
IP off gcd would make warri broken currently
uneven mason
Well, it would make a newbie trap
hollow gorge
Up all the time when you're during low content, yes
uneven mason
Qlauz what you just said is literally the reverse of what 4p and the GCD interation is
hollow gorge
I doubt you'll be having the constant 50% less dmg taken in higher content
uneven mason
Because iwth 4p you only need to press IP every 10s~ or so
without you'd press it more often
strong forum
yes you will, with block changes
specially in m+
with all the CD cycling and bolster in mind, IP off gcd even as it currently is would make us giga strong
wild atlas
Giga strong or super Saiyan. You decide
arctic harbor
Parry negates dmg correct?
main vault
Yeah
arctic harbor
block mitigates/reduces it
arctic harbor
our crit rating and strength bump parry stat, I was just wondering if it had been updated in terms of mechanics like block has been
but its the same old parry
arctic harbor
so, for clarity if I have as an example 25% parry
I can expect over a long period of time to parry 25% of incoming attacks from the front
main vault
Yes
main vault
It's not something you can play around though
arctic harbor
nah I get that it's unreliable and shitty from that end
I am just working through some testing, checking out some ideas and wanted to clarify that it was the same as was expecting
stark sage
if melee hits are the primary source of damage taken, parry gets a lot better too
instead of most things that is some sort of blockable ability
stark sage
i think it is a case by case basis
wild atlas
This data can only be done via napkin math.
arctic harbor
b/c if they get outside my frontal hitbox (insert mom joke), then I can get smashed pretty hard
stark sage
like felclaws from KJ, weren't parryable
but parry was still decent on that boss cuz his melee hits were meaty
arctic harbor
just scribbling down some ideas to work along side Vengence talent
getting 3 IPs to stack up might offset
vs 2 per rage stack
this might end up being more trouble than it's worth tho
b/c BV is so solid
I dunno, thanks for the input
hollow gorge
Urgh KJ, never again
stark sage
@arctic harbor vengeance really requires an excess of rage so that you can pretty frequently take advantage of its reductions
but that usually only happens when fighting in aoe
where BV still gets value
its hard to pass up on BV
hollow gorge
I'm surprised they decided to keep ravager, wonder if it will have any play at all in BfA
arctic harbor
yeah, I was just considering a situation with a hard hitting boss and raid-wise spell dmg. Parry could help mitigate the boss, proc Vengence and IP could help mitigate the spell dmg
such a corner case
BV is likely better anyway
tiny sphinx
my policy with ravager has always been what Sal said awhile back: "even if ravager was the only talent on that tier I still wouldn't take it"
arctic harbor
hahaha
hollow gorge
Hah
arctic harbor
that's funny
stark sage
XD
tiny sphinx
which im surprised was not pinned
stark sage
ravager has very niche use
undone sun
it's so niche, we haven't seen it yet 🙃
stark sage
oof
tiny sphinx
good for knokcing rogues outa stealth!... oh wait thunderclap is free... uhmmm... good for knocking stealthies out at a distance! hah!
hollow gorge
Gives parry at least?
undone sun
haHAA
arctic harbor
speaking of parry
wild atlas
I need you to rename yourself to ParryBomb first
arctic harbor
is it still true that if my active attacks (ie. Shield Slam) get parried, they cost me less rage?
hahaha
wild atlas
I’m waiting for someone else to tell you that shield slam doesn’t cost rage
arctic harbor
just an example but yeah
arctic harbor
and if it doesnt get parried it costs zero etc, roflol
wild atlas
Kidding kidding. Yea I understand. And it would be revenge...not sure
earnest sand
👼
solid sun
With enough hit I don't think you can be parried
wild atlas
Quick! Someone arrive with napkin math!
tiny sphinx
pretty sure parries/dodges don't spend the resources on the ability, it's why misses were the worst- you'd lose the resources in addition to the cd if applicable
come to think of it i don't even know if it still applies
arctic harbor
so much is "baked into the spec" now, it is hard to understand what is actually going on under the hood. b/c like you're saying this used to be addressed with hit rating etc
tiny sphinx
it used to be addressed with "expertise" and before that it was "weapon skill"
arctic harbor
yea you're right
I had forgotten the joys of leveling weapon skill, and precious +skill items
arctic harbor
I do sorta miss the weapon specializations
tiny sphinx
i miss reforging
arctic harbor
Mace vs. Sword vs. Axe
hollow gorge
reforging was pretty nice yeah
wild atlas
The under the hood stuff used to get fleshed out in TankSpot type of theorycrafting, but the game is so much faster than it used to be (insert GCD joke) and it’s fairly unimportant in the big picture
I do not miss weapon skills. So many times I would take a new weapon to Blasted Lands, auto attack and afk while I did laundry or some shit. Idk it was classic fantasy/RPG type of mechanics that I am glad are gone.
Sad story, but I find the older I got, the less time I have to do shit like that anyway. #realthoughts
tiny sphinx
also kinda miss weapon specs, and armour mattering a lot more than it does now
arctic harbor
this ^
I liked being able to adjust my strategy based on stuff like this
I get why it was removed etc
hollow gorge
Gonna be nice getting rid of artifact weapons too
tiny sphinx
I DO NOT miss bosses getting parry haste
arctic harbor
but it was kind of cool getting armpen from maces and flurry attacks swords etc
earnest sand
One of my favourite memories is stacking block and avoidance to get to unhittable for H TotC25.
tiny sphinx
and letting the 100% dodge rogs tank mother shahraz for me
arctic harbor
rip, spell resist gear
solid sun
The napkins let us down?
sick sentinel
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
somber dragon
theoretically weak against lotsa magic damage coming in, not sure the proper way to change it, or if it would even be needed in bfa.
i would exchange some of the "oomph" of vr if it was proc-able off of something else we do as well
stark sage
all tanks are weak against magic damage, although with IP and SR, we are in a decent spot relative to the other tanks
somber dragon
like, just make it "impending victory" x% chance to proc when y, heals for 10% of your HP, if you get the killing blow on a target, the cd resets and the next one within z seconds heals for 100% more.
junior igloo
I would like to see Anger Management changed or talents rearranged so that we don't have 1 cooldown benefiting from AM on every row making it the only viable setup
somber dragon
like, i really don't feel weak as a prot warrior.... i can't self heal, but if i'm doing it right, the healer gets a little bored
but... tbh i like the 'feel' of making my healer actually have to heal (because, she has a tendency to throw our cats at me if she gets bored while healing....)
also, because i'm a little bored, are there any "safe" tanking dummies to get a better feel for rage/revenge?
garrison perhaps?
ohwait, i think only my dk has it that unlocked >.<
broken kite
Poor utility in m+
Zero self sustain
Shit talents that that make it seem like blizzard has no understanding of our spec
👍
somber dragon
we must be playing a different prot warrior, because a 30% self heal on a less than 2 minute cd doesn't really count as zero self sustain to me :D
👍
main vault
Just another person trying to doomsday
sick sentinel
how does one get the hidden artifiact appearance? having trouble finding a guide for it
main vault
WoWHead comments best guide
undone sun
yes
chilly brook
Wadu hek?
“Shit talents”
Prot to me has some of the best talents
The only thing that seems like they have no understanding of our spec to me is IP in its current iteration
The beta one where it was 50% without a absorb cap was a much better design imo
Probably broken though
Can’t remember what the CD was but iirc it was 12 seconds and I also don’t remember how long it lasted
tiny sphinx
4 seconds is diddly squat!
chilly brook
Yea that one
I mean current IP doesn’t even last 4 seconds outside of set bonus @tiny sphinx
tiny sphinx
true, but still, why the arbitrary time limit at all?
chilly brook
And tbh I think that’s a far better design than “absorb x amount”
final mist
Because it was a second mitigation ability you played around with alongside SB
It wasn't an absorb
chilly brook
^
final mist
Just straight DR based on your Rage
chilly brook
Would actually be nice
I don’t know why they went back to legion version but worse in every way
final mist
The damage would reduce your Rage for that time instead of all of your health
Which is better, IMO, that the small absorb we get now for 40 Rage
chilly brook
I mean I guess
But tbh if that older version had made it wouldn’t AM have benefitted?
Also I don’t think it’d hurt to take that design and make it a 40 rage cost and not drain rage at all
Past that initial cost that is
Either way I’d rather have that older version
tiny sphinx
would rather have the freedom of choice of a rage band cost, if they are that worried about AM being too strong they can just do what they always do and nurf it to 20rage/s or 30 or whatever
chilly brook
At least I’d feel like IP was doing something
The fact remains that in current tuning and with IP being on the GCD that it isn’t really all that relevant
Then again it’s not like you’re gonna be spamming 40 rage often
And by often I mean back to back
At least outside of CD’s
chilly brook
Would actually be really interesting as a toggle
somber dragon
it would kinda be like.... BoS play? you can still add rage while it is active?
chilly brook
Yep
somber dragon
i could get behind this
weary notch
yeah. I'm pretty sure they dumped the initial IP design for a design without IP, but didn't have time to finish their no-IP design and just slapped it back in
chilly brook
🤞🏼 for 8.1
I mean they tried with bolster
When it was a talent that was just a flat armor increase and costed rage
weary notch
I'd love something without IP. Bolster as a buff that costs rage wasn't bad, but when it's tuned as a 10 sec duration and a 10 sec recharge, it's just an annoying maintenance buff. If it had been stronger, cost more and didn't last as long it might have worked
chilly brook
I’d actually be really interested in IP being a toggle
frank mantle
I expect ignore pain to change drastically or be removed with a replacement in 8.1
chilly brook
And having some sort of BoS play
frank mantle
Who the hell knows what it would be though it has to some sort of healing
I like the concept of the IP they have now. They just need to figure out how the fuck to tune it
weary notch
I expect a slight IP buff before raid hits - or shortly after. I also expect a bolster nerf. If they're smart, it will only be by reducing LS's duration
chilly brook
As long as it actually can absorb something other than an auto attack
frank mantle
Stopping 50% is better than 90% for smoothing overall but they need to have it last more than like 1 melee lol
somber dragon
maybe like "Ignore Pain: Toggle (off gcd 😄 ) while active drains 5 rage for every 1% health damage you take" or "Ignore Pain: Toggle (off gcd) while active, take 50% of your damage instead depletes 3 rage for every 1% health damage it prevents" (excuse shitty sentence structure).
frank mantle
That’s cancer. If honestly perfect the way it is
Only complaints are the actual number value to it
It’s*
Legit just tuning IP can easily take prot warrior from memes to dreams
somber dragon
very true as well! but there's nothing stopping us from spitballing other ideas (:
chilly brook
I mean tbh I think the toggle idea gives more actual thought into whether or not to use it
But hey
somber dragon
i like it too honestly, but i'm biased 😄
chilly brook
Their idea is they want us to make more “in the moment” decisions
plain ice
strength aside - which tank would you say is the most fun and most fluid going into BFA?
somber dragon
that's very subjective
weary notch
prot, for me
chilly brook
Monk
frank mantle
I’d say the tanks that are more fast paced. Monk and dh on pure fun
chilly brook
Monk literally is the most fluid
broken kite
@somber dragon kek
somber dragon
with scumbag gear on most of them, a bit better on my dk and prot pali, not using legendaries, i find both "prot" specs fluid, bear is also fluid, but less engaging for me than the prots,my DK feels strong, but.... akward, monk and I don't get along.
broken kite
@chilly brook ravager, indom, never surrender
chilly brook
Ravager is fine
broken kite
Great talents
frank mantle
Dk is gonna feel like shit for like a year lol
chilly brook
Bro that’s like saying bone storm is bad
undone sun
🤔
frank mantle
I wouldn’t mind seeing Legendary bracers being a talent or baseline
chilly brook
Dunno what would actually make indom competitive anyways
chilly brook
Like you’re not gonna pick anything other than bolster on that row
broken kite
... Exactly?
chilly brook
So it being ass doesn’t even matter
broken kite
Literally my point
broken kite
At the moment yeah
frank mantle
Aside from tuning IP to make it worth using the only other way I see them redesigning it would be to have it work like frenzied regen for bears in legion
somber dragon
i mean, not all talents have to be top-tier for "progression raiding" or m+ MDI level shit, it is nice to have ones that add to QoL when doing dailies, or PvP....
frank mantle
Or like death strike. It would still make sense with the spell name but would work completely different
broken kite
Other talents aren't not top tier, they're so absolutely garbage you'd never use them
chilly brook
From a name standpoint that is
somber dragon
i'd love to stick to the "prevention" model honestly
we ain't no magic snortin-hippies yo
frank mantle
Logically it makes sense if they chose to take it down that path. But I’d prefer to keep it the way it is and tune it properly
somber dragon
i wouldn't be unhappy with it feeling a bit more oomph-y with the current playstyle.
chilly brook
Literally wouldn’t care about it being on gcd if it actually absorbed more than an auto
somber dragon
right now i really only like it for making SB more powerful 😄
or LS (with Bolster)
frank mantle
On beta what is it’s absorb amount and at what ilvl
chilly brook
Shit
frank mantle
I’d guess they are worried that with gear it will scale out of control really quick
Who the knows. But they better fix it
undone sun
last it checked it was around the equivalent of 10% of our hp
frank mantle
Idk how it hasn’t been buffed yet. It’s been a joke for such a long time. Yeah that could probably get almost doubled
Buff the base amount and just tone down the scaling a bit
somber dragon
i mean... unless my brain has it wrong, as long as you have at least 10.0000001% health, it serves as an "on-demand" 10% EHP?
chilly brook
I mean buff it and fix it later if it becomes an issue
somber dragon
i mean, that's honestly more the blizzard way, no? 😄
chilly brook
It’s the logical way lol
Blizzards way is to make it and not test it and be like “it’s fine, go try again”
cough KJ cough
frank mantle
That was a different problem
chilly brook
I mean it just wasn’t tested lol
chilly brook
Pretty sure none of them tested legion survival
frank mantle
Yeah I think actual raiders can go take a coffee break 2 minutes in to the fight just pause it and skip around and hit play again
Which is why the timings were fucked
chilly brook
I mean how about the dot that literally was unhealable?
And all the other issues which caused method to be like “nah fam fix your shit we’ll be waiting until then”
grim prism
It turns out I didn't let the napkins down
At least I don't think so
Friendly reminder that indom has been bad the entire time
somber dragon
the... damage at azerite.info for "bloodsport" looks very uninspiring.... but how is the leech?
astral crystal
it's crap
haven't stacked it though
can't imagine that will be a priority trait though
somber dragon
i just have no feel for numbers at 120 and it irks me a bit 😄
astral crystal
remove one though
dark junco
so, like, can we stick to devastator, or am I gimping myself ?
cause going back to spamming devastate...
upper spoke
boo
main vault
You don't spam
tight tree
You hardly press it.
I don't get it why so much hate for Devastate. I rather have something extra to press (even if it is not very interactive), than have my spec dumbed down to less buttons. I had my Dev hotkey free for all of the legion hoping it will return, my muscle memory for pressing it is still there 😉
Btw, new Saurfang cinematic is awesome. Will be even harder to play anything but orc warrior now.
amber siren
99% of the problem people have with Dev is that it feels redundant
'you hardly press it' is the problem with it
It barely adds anything to the rotation other than situations where you're rage starved
glacial valley
anyone looked @ the defensive traits on the engineering crafted head piece
west vigil
crude summit
so im thinking of maining a prot war just wanted to know what you guys thought of the new prot
limpid dagger
🗑
tight tree
Prot is good.
sand saffron
It's alright
If you didn't play it in Legion the BFA style won't be as painful for you
untold adder
good to know 😄 i just rerolled to warrior (prot) as well and i've never played that.
tight tree
Feels more like TBC warrior lmao
tawny panther
I still like it. And the only way is up in balance patches given its opinion from streamers
sand saffron
You underestimate blizzard
tawny panther
I have hope, trees have burnt for less
solemn kelp
I have to say, the darkshore "We Will Rock You" WQ is tons of fun. Don't bother with the tree. Just stand in among all the packs and tag them, kill easy mobs for VR, keep IP up, constant cash and silk until you get bored.
Every now and then a tree pops up kills everything you've tagged. And if you cant stand the heat, leap across to safety.
tight tree
Well they will see cookie cutter build and just nerf good talents so they all equally shit. That happened before.
broken kite
that would be hilarious
tight tree
Especially hard to make speculations until we got geared, due to changed tank paradigm. On the other hand, they promised similar things before, and nighthold still happened.
So i am afraid we will just have slow tanks with rage-inducing GCD issues, and all problems of old will remain, i.e. unblockable burst, tons of magic damage etc etc
Maybe raid testing on beta will show more (if anyone will bother to use warrior in these)
topaz ember
yea but that 2.5s tunder-clap while avatar is active is pretty cool
hot locust
Done every raid testing as prot, feels pretty good.
astral crystal
Any particular rough spots?
cosmic cargo
I'd bet g'huun or vectis
grim prism
@tight tree people hate devastate because in 7.0 it was the majority of your keypresses in single target
There is nothing wrong with it right now, people are just bandwagoning complaints because it's prepatch
kind urchin
My favorite use of devastate was when they changed it to apply sunder instead of only refreshing it, but before they added sword n board.
cosmic cargo
isn't the magic portion somewhat high?
stuck oxide
Also, you will rarely see a big magic attack on tank burst these day because all tank got their magic defense nerfed. Prot warrior is actually top tier on magic dmg now : spell reflect, ignore pain
kind urchin
We have plenty of cds to reduce magic damage.
cosmic cargo
ignore pain is pretty negligible
cosmic cargo
and I brought up g'huun and vectis because they have somewhat constant magic damage
kind urchin
Demo shout, Shield wall, last stand.
cosmic cargo
how much is an IP at 360-ish? (raid testing level)
strong forum
IP is around 13% max hp give or take 1%
No matter what ilvl since ap and stamina are equally increasing ilvl. So I reckon at 360 you have what... 180k HP
strong forum
Doesn't pally only have like 1 CD vs magic dmg, and self heal ofc
frank mantle
Lol no
strong forum
I never played pally so idk exactly
frank mantle
And pally gets to 50% block chance in the first tier
strong forum
So it's not guaranteed midigation
frank mantle
Also ardent defender, guardian of ancient kings, mastery reduces all damage, spellwarding and bubble for complete magic immunity
So it kinda blows all other tanks out of the water for magic damage
cosmic cargo
50% block chance is not really gonna happen unless you stack mastery
you will try to do it for magic fights though
strong forum
So ardent defender is same as demo shout, guardian is shield wall
cosmic cargo
since along versa it's the best for magic
warr has better magic CDs but outside of CDs pala is so much better vs magic
or well not better
more frequent
frank mantle
Ardent defender is demo except is also works as a cheat death. Ardent defender is 50% shield wall is 40%
strong forum
Warri has IP which is constant magic dmg reduction
cosmic cargo
immunity that doesn't make you drop aggro
LoTP > IP
pala has considerably higher EHP too
so it's fine to take the hit then heal up
strong forum
So in that regard Id say without counting bubble because lul, warri is pretty much same as pally with pally being a little bit stronger but just a little
cosmic cargo
not really
frigid pawn
LOTP is pretty huge
strong forum
17 sec CD doesn't seem huge
cosmic cargo
reduced by haste and SoTR casts
frank mantle
No big magic hit occurs fast often enough where the extra uptime of cds matters
cosmic cargo
it's not 17 second CD in reality
frigid pawn
warrior not having anything to take pressure of healers is imo their biggest downfall, just having last stand to pump their HP is kinda sad
of off healers*
strong forum
Last stand is huge with bolster
A good warri doesn't even generate pressure towards the healer
Specially in a raid scenario
In m+ its a bit rng
main vault
Magic fights don't exist like they did in legion. Some like Ghuun is about as bad as it will probably get
astral crystal
cause that's not true
main vault
And the Gap is not that big
strong forum
Yea I meant in bfa and pressure as in spam healing
cosmic cargo
take way mastery and holy shield and pala is still slightly better than warr vs magic
it's a pretty big gap
strong forum
Take that away and warri wins, lul
strong forum
Yeah na, 20% dmg reduction every 20sec is not good
strong forum
40% dmg reductiin every 2 min is not a big deal
strong forum
Yeah and warri does that better
strong forum
What don't you understand about warri magic DR
Tell me
You can have a huge uptime on Demo shout which is 20% added to constant IP dmg reduction
kind urchin
20% reduction on a 45 second cd reduced if you take AM.
frank mantle
How quick your cds come up is borderline useless for dealing with magic in more scenarios
strong forum
You always take AM guarok so yeah
frank mantle
Because it’s period of bits hits and tank swap for a minute or so
kind urchin
I know.
cosmic cargo
I dont think you realise how much LoTP heals and how little I absorbs
vs non-tank buster magic it's a huge deal
on tank buster both have enough CDs
strong forum
SR + Demo is 40% Dr
On a roughly 35sec CD
Added to 30% LS HP increase
Throw in another sw, another 40%
main vault
LotP only heals if you aren't dead
cosmic cargo
DR isn't addictive
strong forum
I know
cosmic cargo
you don't even know how dr works and you're trying to argue this
strong forum
But you can do it every minute
cosmic cargo
waste of time
kind urchin
Or for more consistant magic damage you can chain them together.
main vault
IP can at least help before dead
frank mantle
Paladin is flat out better for magic saying anything else is quite dumb
I do think warrior is second
strong forum
And all you have to say is lotp and spellwardin
cosmic cargo
and nexii pls you're better than that
main vault
I do agree paladin is better, but the gap isn't big
cosmic cargo
speaking of non tank buster
you won't just flat out die
specially since even with IP
main vault
Well non-tank Buster's honestly don't matter
cosmic cargo
your health pool as warr is small
main vault
That's what healers are for
strong forum
I literally just said that as warri you can stack 3 CDs on top of each other every single minute
main vault
Uh
strong forum
If that's not enough idk
frank mantle
Blocking spells including dots is broken in itself
main vault
War HP isn't much lower than Pally
strong forum
Pally has like 5% more HP tops
main vault
Less than 20k
At 355ish
I've compared them all with random gear
Pally had like 208k, War 193k
cosmic cargo
warr is arguably one of the worst
main vault
No
kind urchin
Blocking spells as a pally is rng. Just as reliable as parry. Great for overall reduction on suatained magic damage but not good for single hard hitting spells.
frank mantle
I know
kind urchin
Sustained
main vault
You can't gamble with Blocking a spell
strong forum
Zeppe spouting nonsense..
main vault
So you can only really look at CDs
strong forum
Warri is one of the strongest vs magic
main vault
And looking at non tank buster magic is useless, cause who cares
frank mantle
We have plenty of them and 2 are complete immunities
main vault
Except you can guarantee block on War
uneven mason
Like you just tried to with Paladin v Magic
main vault
Just not the crit block
strong forum
Nobody counts in the base block chance on warri
uneven mason
Hence why we have 3 ways to give ourselves 100% block chance
cosmic cargo
overall matters, healers don't have infinity mana on progress
frank mantle
I’m saying blocking spells is insanely strong. Won’t help for the big one shots but over a fight it’s huge
main vault
They have enough where you can't gamble on magic block
kind urchin
No, block is still good and our shield block guarantees blocks. Crit blocks just cherry on top.
uneven mason
So, like, by that merit the tank with the highest DR, but the lowest HP Pool would be the best, since, healers don't have infinite mana on progress
So warrior best tank Zeppe?
cosmic cargo
so if it's just the cherry on top mastery would suck for warrs
but it's the second best stat
strong forum
No because pala has bubble don't you know
main vault
If they Nerf armor it's actually a buff cause less armor means you get more from trickets and IF
strong forum
But guuys pala has immunities on high CD so it's much stronger than warri
Why don't you believe him
frigid pawn
I would say prot pala is better for progress with their toolkit, but warrior is equal or superior when everything is going as planned
uneven mason
5min CD to cheese one mechanic (which they haven't allowed in the last 2 tiers) Sounds legit Nom /s
cosmic cargo
you're just being a jackass and you don't even know how DR works, pls
uneven mason
Yeah no doubt Wice
strong forum
I was being sarcastic
frigid pawn
just trying to find the common ground here 😛
uneven mason
We don't deny other tanks have amazing items in their toolkit, but overall coming down beling like "hurhur warrior low HP dat mean wurst"
Just shows how thin of an understanding on how tanking works the person has
HP matters for sure
main vault
Monks have lowest HP
uneven mason
Its has an amazing impact on short term survivability, and that is warriors primary weakness - we are "Closer" to death at any given point vs another tank just because we don't have that padding.
main vault
Bad for progress confirmed
uneven mason
No Nexii say it aint so
kind urchin
You can't look at a tanks HP for comparison. EHP is what's important.
uneven mason
Gonna go drown a bit of this snark in coffee brb
sick sentinel
So im pretty new to tanking, is the icy-veins guide an ok guide to follow?
sick sentinel
well ok then 😛
strong forum
Specifically for prot warri it's good, since the owner of this discord himself wrote it
uneven mason
Well I mean, being the owner of a discord doesn't immediately make someone an expert on their class 😛
But Marok knows his shit.
and is open to discussion on how things work
strong forum
That's what I was implying
undone sun
correct but it's from a trustable source
uneven mason
so its high quality
undone sun
for bfa the new IV guides, at least for tanks, are being written by prominent members of the discord communities
strong forum
As this is the official warrior discord (right?) I'd say its a trustworthy source
uneven mason
😄
sick sentinel
One step in the right direction for me ;)
vocal nimbus
There's a russian skyhold afaik
But its pretty much a translation of what's in here for russian people
undone sun
i know there's a russian and german dreamgrove, wouldn't be surprised if there are others
grim prism
SkyholDE🇩🇪
signal plover
This discord is most tolerant of my memery
It's also the best discord to be a fly on the wall in
dusk locust
def one of the better ones
grim prism
It's got the right balance of discussion to shitposting. And I've only been banned once!