They didn't give you the option to skip doing the quests for chapter 2 if you already did them on your main toon?
#protection
drowsy marten
drowsy marten
only the intro
was wondering because i have too many alts
sucks doing the quests on all of them
uneven mason
I don't think I needed to do any of the quests on an alt
to unlock the WQ
just the one time through, on both sides and they appeared
drowsy marten
you would just be missing 1 world quest
the one all the way north
were the story quests take place
dusky sentinel
So. Dwarf or worgen? Doesnt worgen walk kinda shady aswell? :p
uneven mason
They have a loping walk, its not disturbing, actually looks form appropriate, not like Draeni who shimmy their shoulders and trot
dusk locust
it's a wolf on his hind legs he shouldn't have perfect posture ;o
sick sentinel
hm
signal plover
Dranei walk like they got big dicks
cosmic cargo
female dog it's the worst as tank
constantly barking
well not quite bark, but an annoying sound
strong forum
Well draenei hold their shoulders up, worgen just let their arms dangle with the weapon in hand
signal plover
Always gotta have proper posture for the ladies 'miring your mog
cosmic cargo
no one admires a male goat
uneven mason
Paw Draenei walk like they have BigDs stuck somewhere for sure
But I don't think its theirs
strong forum
Na thats goblin
uneven mason
Goblin just got the diaper walk
strong forum
Loosened
kind urchin
Full toddler diaper walk
signal plover
Look Ikari that's what I like to call "irrelevant details"
uneven mason
I do have to say tho, Draeni have some good sprinting animations
The only time they look good moving is when its full tilt forward like they're going to put that silly naaru crest through a brick wall
The yelling though,
can't take it
they sound like Arnold having sex with a sheep
uneven mason
Cause, if it was a goat it wouldn't be bestiality
signal plover
Fair
strong forum
Playing with game sound DansGame
strong forum
Cuz it's boring, need some musix
uneven mason
Wow has music
cosmic cargo
why not both?
dusk locust
you can do musics and sounds
uneven mason
its got sounds
strong forum
I keep in game voice, that's about it
cosmic cargo
playing NH without voice for example
should be a crime
trilliax and botanist were great
dusk locust
yeah lots of sound queues for mechanics
uneven mason
I turn the sound off if I'm watching Netflix, but like, you can reflexively learn tank mechanics by listening to the bosses sounds
dusk locust
^
dusk locust
i've got countdowns and stuff yelling at me during raid. audio helps me a lot
strong forum
I hate audio stuff noticing me of shit
The wa cat screams and horn and w/e
Uuuugh
Soooo annying
strong forum
Only sound WA I had was when rend was about to run out in pvp
uneven mason
and WA
strong forum
Yea I run basic dbm sounds, it's fine.
dusk locust
weakaura sounds in M+ though are so good for me
dusk locust
yeah those are dumb
uneven mason
Yeah, I dunno why they decided to change the basic alert to the airhorn
not as bad as the sounds comming out of GTFO
but close
dusk locust
i'm on bigwigs. those default sounds are reasonable
cosmic cargo
yeah i need to disable the air horn, it's obnoxious
uneven mason
But sometehing like Aggramar - you can go through that fight on HC without a bossmod, cause the dude talks so much
cosmic cargo
i'd use bigwigs if the dungeon version wasn't worse
dusk locust
i like the countdown for taeshalach but yeah his voice lines are great for mechanics
the dungeon version is worse?
uneven mason
He jabbers about the technique 3 seconds before he goes into it and his animations are REALLY REALLY telegraphed
strong forum
Idk I can't pay attention to big wigs.
strong forum
I need the big flashy shit from dbm
cosmic cargo
which dbm had pretty much from the start
dusk locust
CoS clues yeah that's true. i actually first switched b/c bigwigs had more accurate bars for... what was it, tomb?
i think mistress specifically
and i've come to prefer it
but i mean they're both fine
main vault
BW can have big flashy shit too
Just not by default
But nothing beats the final fantasy music
dusk locust
haha true
strong forum
I just feel like dbm is the nooby of both
dusk locust
the thing i don't like about dbm is that it tells you what to do, and sometimes that conflicts with what strat the raid is using
strong forum
Well Ive only pugged so far, so it helped me a ton
dusk locust
dbm is great for introducing a boss i think. but in raid sometimes we'll, say, change how many stacks we want to taunt on, but dbm is still saying "taunt now"
strong forum
Ya I just don't taunt
Specially at agg I know when the ot is using Dbm
When they taunt at 8 stacks
dusk locust
at least a few times i've had a tank go "oh my bad i saw 'taunt now'"
bigwigs makes a sound at 8 stacks
strong forum
But in this prepatch I took hits until 20 and was still find
Fine*
Normal that is
clear eagle
I like bigwigs a lot more than dbm.
strong forum
When I start proper raiding bigwigs might be better but for now and m+ dbm does me fine
clear eagle
Idk I’m also tempered from playing a shit ton of Ffxiv for the past 3 years which doesn’t allow any sort of addons so you have to just know the fight at much higher level. I may just not use either in bfa since I’m coming back for good 🤔
strong forum
Ugh... That's one of the greatest features wow has. Addons
dusk locust
partly because the default UI doesn't give nearly enough information
cosmic cargo
not using either is handicapping yourslef
strong forum
For raiding one of either is a must have
cosmic cargo
if you do casual content it's w.e but for mythic raiding it's not a good idea
there's bosses like augur for example where you basically need an addon to help you
or mistress for proper line soak
dusk locust
didn't they once say that they balance and plan bosses assuming the use of weakauras and bossmods?
cosmic cargo
ofc
look at archimonde
and wonder how the fuck was someone supposed to kill it as current content without addons
uneven mason
Have superspeed reflexes
I mean, bosses have always done abilities on a timer more or less
dusky sentinel
Just be good. Period
uneven mason
They've also become more "Projected" with their abilities, having voice lines and wind up animations
and nice sparkles on the floor
dusk locust
it's tremendously helpful to have bossmods as raid lead too. i can do my mechanics via audio cues and still look at the raid's positioning
cosmic cargo
well the bosses i'd say require addons it's not for timers
timers are more of a really nice to have
uneven mason
bossmods help for learning encounters
However, its my opinion that once you're at a certain point in progression with a boss, that they become a detriment to actually paying attention to a fight
and just a crutch that can trip people up
cosmic cargo
i totally disagree
dusk locust
yeah imo if it's getting in the way it means it needs to be adjusted in some way
clear eagle
I mean I think things like timers are super helpful, but something that screams at you to RUN OVER HERE WITH THIS BUFF. Or TAUNT NOW. Just super unnecessary. Similar mechanics to the line soak in FF and no one needs an add on over there
dusk locust
i add and remove timers and things all the time
uneven mason
Its why folks who run with 100% of the default timers rolling, generally you won't need to know all the effects a boss is doing, you have all these bars clouding the screen and drawing attention away from the mechanics that actually impact you.
Well right that was more I was saying, At first knowing all the mechanics can teach you the rotation or pace of the fight
cosmic cargo
but having to thinking "is the boss doing x mechanic in 5 or 10 seconds"
clear eagle
I love my addons like need to know and stuff for rotational information but I prefer to just know what the boss is doing and when myself. It makes you a better player if you don’t rely on addons and just use them for reminders imo
cosmic cargo
"do i have time to use this CD before i run away?"
those tiny things
you can do with timers
uneven mason
but once you learn that - removing what doesn't impact you is a good idea.
dusk locust
or you're a disc priest and need to set up 15 seconds in advance
cosmic cargo
without you guess
but there are mechanics where you pretty much need an addon
before nerf mistress soaks
getting a good enough split without WA telling people where to go was very risky
clear eagle
Disagree entirely. You need the add on because you’re used to it. If it didn’t exist people would still clear and they would have a deeper understanding of the mechanic
clear eagle
The add on is like a third arm. Very helpful but unnecessary.
cosmic cargo
the color was not displayed well enough and you had so little time
and archimonde
don't even get me started on archimonde
stein have you done either of these 3 fights?
clear eagle
Yes.
And I used an addon but I don’t think in any way they are necessary.
It would have been much harder sure. But that’s not the argument.
cosmic cargo
possibly 2 of those
archimonde before overgearing simply was not doable
without at least WA telling you where to stack on last phase
or ridiculous luck
clear eagle
Archi I can somewhat agree with just based on the clusterfuck that was sometimes but I’d honestly be surprised if Blizz designs fights with dbm in mind.
grim prism
I was under the impression that they design fights around the assumption that players are using at least some kind of timer
dusk locust
i think they've up and said it
grim prism
Yeah
dusk locust
otherwise they'd create mechanics that were 100% trivial
cosmic cargo
also KJ
no timer on mythic
= you probably fly
the timer was very strict
specially on intermission 2 where you cannot see the orb
clear eagle
Timers are fine. People in FF have their own third party timers sometimes. I just don’t like how addons force the community to rely on them for things like being in the right place at the right time when you usually have 5-10 seconds to get somewhere. Like that’s so much time.
Admittedly that might be the fault of the community for letting themselves be dependent on it but still
cosmic cargo
FF afaik has better in game indications though
grim prism
Addons dont force you to use them, fight designs force you to use addons lol
cosmic cargo
i wouldn't so much blame the community but blame how poor the base UI and information is
grim prism
^
clear eagle
It does and it doesn’t. When I was in a top 25 during the a realm reborn the last boss of the second tier had literally no indicators on attacks you just had to know where to be.
Base UI is pretty trash tho true
cosmic cargo
that honestly just sounds annoying
clear eagle
I mean the ground had patterns on it that you could utilize to measure aoes and stuff so it wasn’t that annoying
I will say as far as indicators go I really hate blizzards swirly spiral ground painted texture. It’s so ambiguous. Sometimes shit hits you outside of it. Sometimes being on the edge of it doesn’t count. Just put a damn circle down that paints the actual hit box.
grim prism
They fuck that up in HotS too
Why your ground indicator doesnt match your unit radius is beyond me
But again, different game wrong channel lol
dusk locust
ambiguity can be interesting sometimes. i find it fun to "know" what's blockable and what isn't, or what's magical, etc
cosmic cargo
gotta love consistency on what you can reflect or not
clear eagle
Stuff like that is fine for sure agreed yoshi. I like that too. The issue is when a mechanic that says “this is gonna hit here” also hits outside of there and it’s not like a room wide aoe with fall off or something.
dusk locust
yeah i'm with you there
soaks that change color/design when you're in them are good for countering that
and screen effects when you're, say, standing in sanguine
clear eagle
True story.
grim prism
There is one
The screen throbs red to let you know youve taken 85% damage from one badly-stacked tick
👌
wanton sentinel
^ too real.
I’m going to make a weak aura that just puts a giant OK hand emoji on your screen instead
astral crystal
that would be 🔥
junior ivy
i added keybinds to the weakaura
1 , 2, 3, 4
and it helps so much
i can look at the weakaura instead of my action bars
and an ability will flashb when im suppsoed to use it
amber siren
She's become the ultimate warrior
uneven mason
Runs around in Bright Pink and Green facepaint?
junior ivy
im starting keybinding for fury but i will eventually keybind prot too
signal plover
She's a fuckin gnome still let's not get ahead of ourselves
junior ivy
BEST RACE
amber siren
Gnomes look great in plate fyi
signal plover
scribbles 2nd name on the list
junior ivy
certain plate sets look good on gnomes.. but a lot look bad sadly
i find warrior transmog looks bad in general though
ember arrow
its amazing on races that look good
signal plover
^
junior ivy
show me.
ember arrow
i love the helm
junior ivy
show me please
signal plover
Cat just race change to any other race and look at it
And it'll look orders of magnitude better
signal plover
Omg
cosmic cargo
that's much better
ember arrow
belf male and female has no difference
signal plover
The OTHER awful race
ember arrow
both are female
signal plover
^
cosmic cargo
true
junior ivy
my b-elf is female anyway
signal plover
Look at the uldir set on a mag orc
ember arrow
or hooman
signal plover
I still like my dranei
signal plover
But apparently backwards 90 ankles aren't for everyone
cosmic cargo
the hat is
ember arrow
its.. a set
cosmic cargo
not something i'd pick
signal plover
Belf also has tiny shoulders and huge helm
signal plover
Cuz no armor is slicker than those abz
signal plover
The single ab
ember arrow
nelfs have abs
signal plover
Nelfs r ultimate sexmans and womans
ember arrow
thye like to BURN calories
stuck oxide
Wrong chann guyz
signal plover
Da fuck outta here
cosmic cargo
nice
stuck oxide
There is a transmo channel
ember arrow
areu a mod?
stuck oxide
Plz respect
signal plover
Oh sorry. Hey does prot warrior feel slower to anyone else after the pre patch
ember arrow
we have about 95 people here that can moderate chat
signal plover
Hey is prot shit cuz mAh Bois on the streams say so?
ember arrow
ohsorry i have gaps in AM uptime
stuck oxide
No. But i am the legendary and mighty Fuzza
signal plover
Only one plate set
ember arrow
jesus
signal plover
Same for all armor classes
stuck oxide
There is no more set
ember arrow
it looks horrible on dk
cosmic cargo
imo it looks horrible in general
main vault
There is only 1 set per armor type
stuck oxide
Its only plate cloth leather mail set
main vault
Per difficulty
signal plover
We all gonna mog dat shit anyway
main vault
Enjoy looking like a Paladin forever
stuck oxide
The warfront one is badass
signal plover
So blizz is like we can get away with this now.
signal plover
Na
lament sky
Blizz got lazy
charred vigil
Why didn’t they make the legendary bracers a Prot talent? that would have been nice
charred vigil
My guild wants me to play a different tank than Prot warrior for m+ and raid. Ughhh
lament sky
Yo is the Ant tier set worth wearing atm?
tawny panther
Least it's got damage
charred vigil
Guild lead says I should change to a demon hunter. Good god that sounds terrible.
ember arrow
nice guild
tawny panther
Did he say why
lament sky
play wat u want to play
ember arrow
you got there
lament sky
fcuk ur gm
charred vigil
They want that raid debuff. No demon hunters in guild
tawny panther
That's nonsense. What happens when you aren't tanking that add or whatever
cosmic cargo
the debuff is permanent
charred vigil
Lol I’m just staying Prot they can kiss my ass
cosmic cargo
you just have to hit something once
lament sky
good boi
ember arrow
doesnt dps dh have same
charred vigil
Or I can go fury
ember arrow
like monk has
tawny panther
Still not ideal even if perm since movement or range , also gcd thingd
charred vigil
Prot will be fine in mythic + if you have a good healer right lol
cosmic cargo
it'll probably be tied for worst m+ tank
how far is the gap, not sure but not very small
charred vigil
I think my gm thinks that Dh or Dk tanks will take some pressure off the healers for m+ and raids
ember arrow
does ur gm even know
lament sky
lol
ember arrow
waht a warr does
lament sky
does he tank ?
cosmic cargo
in m+ sometimes yes
charred vigil
No he heals
ember arrow
he thinks warr has no self heal and no metigation
cosmic cargo
but raid? nope
then he's a bad tank healer, he'd be drooling over a monk if he knew what he was talking about
not a dk or dh
charred vigil
Haha
cosmic cargo
or simply doesn't realize that legion is over
ember arrow
in legion warr shiuld be 20th dmg taken in raids
or u play it wrong
unless its hounds or portal keeper since bleeds
cosmic cargo
imonar bridge crossing 
uneven mason
Legion warrior - full health or 1 shot, no in between
Doing mythic tonight, don't think I'ma try and test how it feels to tank doggos without Legendaries tonight.
charred vigil
Didn’t blizzard say that all tanks will be viable up to mythic raiding and mythic +15?
cosmic cargo
depends on the definition of viable
uneven mason
but perception is a hell of a disease
cosmic cargo
that was supposed to be a thing
uneven mason
it spreads, hard to cure
ember arrow
yea
charred vigil
Especially since my guild only did heroic antorus this expansion and never was able to get into mythic
uneven mason
You could do NH as port
cosmic cargo
you could
ember arrow
only not on augurand krosus
cosmic cargo
but your healers would hate you
clear eagle
Warrior has insane threat gen with booming voice, unstoppable force which will be a big deal at the start of the expac due to threat changes. Not to mention anger management means you have cooldowns much more often than other tanks. Not sure why your guild lead would prefer DH over WAR. Imo most guilds will be running brewmaster/war and I doubt they’ll change to something else just for m+
cosmic cargo
you have the most dead GCDs on pull of an aoe pack
uneven mason
thus, is the basis
uneven mason
Avatar while mid charge? follow it with TC "put up Shield block" Demo shout, TC again
cosmic cargo
not saying it's an issue
uneven mason
betting those 2 Buffed TCs hit way harder than anything the DPS pulls out of their ass
cosmic cargo
but it's definitely not an advantage warr's have
all other tanks have a slightly easier time
uneven mason
Our damage is high enough that we make most DPS look like they're running in place on big pulls, I'd consider it an advantage.
clear eagle
People are also undervaluing azerite traits a bit. Stacking 3 of the thunderclap demo shout one gives you near 100 percent up time on demo shout with anger management
cosmic cargo
warrior damage isn't higher than most tanks though
dh has better aoe
pala has better snap-aoe (possibly not sustained though)
clear eagle
Dh has better aoe but war is likely better for raid is what I’m saying.
cosmic cargo
dk can also have better snap-aoe
not quite sure how's monk's damage, bear has poor dps though
charred vigil
I haven’t looked at the Prot azerite traits yet. demo shout 100% uptime does benefit the group a lot.
cosmic cargo
the group? benefits yourself 😛
charred vigil
I am talking about selling it to my gm healer lol
uneven mason
I think DH being stronger damage AE is a perception thing, fairly sure I've seen sense post some proof that warriors are king of that castle *shrug it was only a few days back
clear eagle
I mean everything is conjecture at this point anyways
Who knows what kind of fuckery will be hotfixed in on launch
uneven mason
yeah, tuning is still i nthe air
small pumice
@uneven mason do u have a link to that? im curious
charred vigil
True. Warrior being “bottom” tier for mythic + will likely get them some buffs of some sort
uneven mason
We didn't most of Legion 😉
cosmic cargo
yeah warr was bottom tier for whole legion for m+
uneven mason
search for "exact same pull in exact same dungeon difficulty"
cosmic cargo
the only thing that changed was bears eventually joining warr at the bottom
uneven mason
it'll take you to where he was talking about it
like I said tho, I mean MY damage seems high
but I haven't done an apples to apples vs a DH
charred vigil
Which blows because my core group of guildies and buddies gear up through mythic + until normal opens
cosmic cargo
though i will say in pre-patch warr has probably the best aoe
actually nvm
but one of the best
uneven mason
Mind you the entire "warriors are at bottom" isn't that we can't complete keys or do M+
cosmic cargo
i forgot bear's fuckery with moonfire legendaries
uneven mason
just that we didn't have the flavor of Cheese needed to push speed records
charred vigil
Yes true
cosmic cargo
and in legion dh and dk could actually self-sustain
and pala in some situations
while warr you could also to an extent
but you'd sooner get to the point where it wasn't possible anymore
charred vigil
Victory rush can save your ass
junior ivy
kk
uneven mason
competes with UF for prot tho
cosmic cargo
you might use it for the snare on m+ occasionally
uneven mason
so, its a situational goodie, but generally Unstoppable FOrce will trump it
cosmic cargo
if your group doesn't have someone else with snare and you need to kite
uneven mason
50% Snare at least, I mean, TC itself is a 20%
cosmic cargo
UF is silly, it's essentially a defensive+offensive talent on a offensive+utillity line
clear eagle
It stacks single target
And it’s considered to be a bug that it doesn’t stack multi
Afaik
All azerite traits are supposed to be fully stackable
stark sage
*fully
ymmv
but yeah the design intent is having 3 stacked traits being stronger than having 1
but not all aspects of the traits stack.
uneven mason
Like the TC one, the damage could stack
undone sun
Stats stack, effects don't
uneven mason
but the DS duration doesn't
clear eagle
The DS duration absolutely stacks single target.
I saw confirmation of that yesterday.
Which I suppose could conversely be a bug
astral crystal
havent been in beta in several weeks, wasn't working properly then
hopefully the intent is that it stakcs
stacks*
shut summit
no it doesn't, its bugged and is currently is doing 2sec per tclap no matter how many traits you have
clear eagle
Oh really
shut summit
so if you think its stacking because you have 2 its just a bug, take off a piece and will still be 2
who knows if itll be fixed back to 1 or stay at 2 tho
clear eagle
1 second of DS seems so trivial so hopefully 2.
junior ivy
im still confused about prot ugh
i feel like i cant do both good dps and good defensive
cause of gcd
either i can focus on dps and maybe die
or focus on not dying and do bad dps
stark sage
pretty much
junior ivy
its impossible to habve any sort of set rotation cause it gets interrupted by SB , IP, DS etc
and its so slowwwww
stark sage
with better gear you will be able to focus more on dps
junior ivy
better waiut 15 years for GCD before i can use SB and try nlkot to die while waiting
not
or IP i mean
uneven mason
SB is off the GCD~
junior ivy
i meant IP yeah
uneven mason
and there isn't a rotation much anymore for any spec, its a priority list
which varies depending on what sorta pain you're in
junior ivy
i just find it hard to fit in dpos abilities
dps
when it takes ages to do each defensive
cause gcd is so long
opaque pagoda
Yes, it’s awful
It’s particularly rough with the change to threat
Demo Shout feels like it takes forever to get up when you first start the pull
Sitting there sweating bullets while the DPS starts to AoE
I’ve bitched about the whole thing enough that people are sick of it
stark sage
DS is usually your 3rd or 4th GCD when pulling aoe
opaque pagoda
But I just hate the feel of it now
stark sage
its a bit long but that isnt ages
dusk locust
part of what makes it interesting to me is choosing defensive or offensive, and if i need both i have cooldowns that aren't on the gcd
junior ivy
question
can i just never use devestate
is that ok
if i never use it
can i take it off my bar
dusk locust
i don't use it a lot on aoe
but single target you should have it
sometimes there's a gcd where everything else is on cooldown
signal plover
Devastate resets SS
Stop treating it like a red headed stepchild just cuz ur used to devastator
Use it when it should be used
junior ivy
the reason i dont wanna use it is cause tis not oin my weakaura
and i tried to add it
but couldnt figure it out
dusk locust
eh well it doesn't really have a cooldown so there's nothing to track
signal plover
Don't have a WA to press...use devastate
junior ivy
yeah but i need it it to show up on my weakaura or ill never remember to use it
and i wont know its keybind
stark sage
🤦
signal plover
If u rly can't handle that u can make one that appears when the other shit is on CD but cmon
junior ivy
i am trying to add it to the weakaura
but its taking upo the slot of TC
and i dunno how to move them
dusk locust
multiple rally shouts stack right
stark sage
no
ember arrow
how can you not know that devastate exists
if its not on WA
thats like, trolling level
it has no cd, costs no resources, so WAs dont track it usually
unless u make one
dusk locust
oh dang they don't stack? so if two warriors rally at the same time it's equivalent to just one?
ember arrow
it resets it
signal plover
Yoshi how can u be rallied if your alrdy rallied
dusk locust
haha
junior ivy
casue if im staring at my WA to know when to use what ability
and i never see devestate
ill forhget top use it
forgt to*
stark sage
just hit a dummy and practice using it
ember arrow
or make one yourself
signal plover
Kel if cat is hitting a dummy and devastate never pops up on the WA how will she know to use devaste when hitting the dummy
Ur not seeing the BIGGER picture obv
stark sage
🤦
junior ivy
but i dunno how to reposition the icons
strong forum
i usually open with DS in my "rotation"
signal plover
😿
stark sage
SB is ofgcd
strong forum
exactly
dusk locust
i run with nutty dps sometimes i gotta get that tc down stat
stark sage
charge > TC + SB > DS is mine
strong forum
still the order i use my abilities in
dusk locust
yeah that's what i do
earnest sand
Yeah I put the TC first cos DPS aren't used to waiting
dusk locust
chaining pulls you'll have rage usually
strong forum
in chaining yes
signal plover
Ur arguing semantics cuz SB is off gcd
DS as 3rd gcd feels decently reliable with big aoe DPS
uneven mason
I mean, we're going to see, hopefully a shift in DPS mentality, like we did when Cata first came out
earnest sand
Let em die enough times and they'll figure it out
uneven mason
Although, in cata DPS played stupid so long that blizzard finally gave in and nerfed the heroics
DPS killed themselves like lemmings to protest mobs actually hitting for more than wet cardboard levels of damage
We'll see what gives first, the DPS willingness to mash buttons like a hyperactive toddler or Blizzards ability to deal with crying on the forums
dusk locust
dps doesn't learn through dying i promise
grim prism
"DPS mash[es] buttons like a hyperactive toddler" -guy who ran Devastator two weeks ago
Wew laddie
strong forum
oh shit almost forgot my weekly chest LUL
stiff gate
U guys out here acting like hyperactive toddler button mashing isn’t the most fun gameplay smh
undone sun
There's a fine line between good spam and bad spam.
T21 is good spam, it's not constant but it's often enough.
Devastate is bad spam.
signal plover
Where does actual Spam land on the spam scale?
grim prism
When was the last time you had Spam?
Clearly it doesnt even register
Unless maybe youre hawaiian or something
somber dragon
spam is still pretty strong out here in the midwest 😄 along with other canned meats 😄
neat harbor
Afternoon folks
Anyone know if there is a way/code to use in raidbots to exclude the usage of a spell?
tardy plinth
I need help with new prot warrior, i just started playing prot. (Was a fury)
strong forum
somber dragon
pins are an* awesome* start, any clarification should be easier than my ex to resolve here 😄
we're going to have pretty decent mitigation outside of any AM/CDs (compared to other tanks) with vanguard if the scaling is even remotely similar to what it is at 110... or am I missing something?
uneven mason
We have fantastic mitigation
this is weighted against the other tanks having higher raw health and more efficient self healing.
somber dragon
like, if we botch the CD rotation, or don't have one... taking a couple mele hits is not going to be "that bad" i feel?
uneven mason
Its bad heh
somber dragon
(don't have one due to mechanics that call for CD usage elsewhere)
uneven mason
Rather, its noticeable
since we don't have a real way to recover it on our lonesome
somber dragon
but in terms of "raw hp" that needs to be healed, it won't be "OMG LAY ON HANDS"
somber dragon
and to be fair, a fight that would call for "heavy bursts" of magic that would make maintaining something up most the time, is probably going to be a caster-type boss that isn't mele-ing like a runaway aircraft carrier
(at least in the content i'm looking forward to doing 😄 )
idk, my brain just sparked... it happens 😄
tardy plinth
Can anyone teach me some lessons on how to prot warrior?
dusk locust
best thing you should do is have a look over the icy veins guide and then ask us questions if you're confused. there's a lot of information to talk about
tardy plinth
All right, thanks 😃
astral crystal
Pres butan
gleaming thicket
i wonder how many honor levels we can get through dark shore without getting banned
what the threshold will be
clear eagle
Biggest thing to overcome while learning to tank @tardy plinth is that you don’t want to save your cooldowns for reactions. Be proactive with your mitigation. Especially with demo shout. It’s cooldown is so short.
Especially important for us warriors because our mitigation is really all we have.
wanton sentinel
DS is up almost every major pack when running the blessed build - Anger Management + Booming Voice. +15% damage is no small deal.
Plus Last Stand recycles fast.
grim prism
bolster me senpai
lapis gazelle
wanton sentinel
bracers & legs.
mild nymph
no battlelord?
signal plover
They're listed in the icy veins guide along with reasoning.
Generally speaking belt/bracers
frank mantle
wtb large buff to IP soon
sick sentinel
🙏
frank mantle
thats all we need to be good
uneven mason
🤔
grim prism
gotta git gud to be gud
frank mantle
but i is gud, i just want to be gud compared to others
grim prism
You just need to be gud compared to other prot wars
Sort of a "you dont need to outrun the tiger, you just need to outrun your friend" philosophy 👌
frank mantle
lol thats a nice way to look at it, doesn't help it be good enough to make a raid team tho 😛
grim prism
If it's any consolation, Blizzard seems to be heavily disincentivizing organized raiding relative to prior expansions
But I feel ya
frank mantle
and while it only truly matter for the top 5% maybe, trickle effect is real as fuck
aka monks at start of legion
couldnt pay their way into any group for anything
grim prism
"Hardcore raiding guild" are probably looking for monks already, but I've seen and been involved in my fair share of "hardcore raiding guilds" that are lowkey trash. I think once the expac opens up in earnest the playing field will be more level than you expect
waxen talon
Doesnt matter if you outrun your friend if your opponent is a op class
frank mantle
^ amen and yes monk is baseline required for all raids atm for tanks
waxen talon
its easy to be good among warriors cuz the average player is trash
frank mantle
the good guilds anyway
grim prism
The average WoW player is trash regardless of class, thats why they are dumbing down raiding so much and pushing casual and small-group content this expac
undone sun
that's too much of a generalization
frank mantle
will guarantee almost every single top raid comp will be monk and X tank
undone sun
sure, they'll run it because it's less punishing and easier for pushing world firsts
but that's not every good guild, way too much of a generalization
waxen talon
i dont know know the statistics these days
undone sun
nor is it required
waxen talon
but like 30% of all active accounts get a head of the curve or something similiar?
grim prism
Just being an active participant in this discord gives you a leg up and shows a willingness to learn and improve that most players statistically dont have
waxen talon
the average prot warrior has no clue what hes doing
frank mantle
sure it may not be required, but go back and look at how many top raid guilds didn't include a bear tank in legion
undone sun
idc, your point was it was required
frank mantle
and that is what monk will be
grim prism
Well NH was particularly broken in a way that majorly advantaged bears
And that caused a lot of people to just main bear
waxen talon
make bears less fat.
grim prism
I am under the impression that the playing field will be more level in the future
undone sun
with the exception for EN, monk have been pretty much #1 in the raiding scene throughout legion
this isn't new to bfa
waxen talon
tbh i didnt see that many monks around
undone sun
it's less so in abt
frank mantle
yeah at this point tuning is what makes or breaks it
waxen talon
they can still fuck over monks 1 week into first raid
waxen talon
cuz why would any1 main a monk 😉
frank mantle
no one tank spec is truly missing something, although i do think that DH needs another CD to truly compete in raids
that is just my opinion tho
frank mantle
Idk why they got rid of empowered wards tho just saying
waxen talon
that Magic DR?
frank mantle
Yeah
waxen talon
thats why.
frank mantle
I mean we still have spell reflect. It’s literally the same thing
waxen talon
No
its two very different classes
they are based around healing themselves
- had a magic mitigation passive in the past
Balance isnt just
hand the same to every class.
thats lame.
cant they just spirit bomb it anyway
grim prism
32% of current players have AotC: Xavius. Percentages are lower and lower as content gets more recent.
frank mantle
Yes but having very little to actually lower the damage on a magic hit will be a huge problem for them
grim prism
So yeah, the average player is trash
waxen talon
ur like
grim prism
And just by being above average, i think you'll be able to find a group
waxen talon
join a pug m+ in early expansion with +10ilvls more than others
and people are like you're a god
grim prism
Not to mention the fact that you could basically pug AotC two weeks in, if youre the patient type
And then you'll have the achievement already to help advertise yourself, if you are so inclined
waxen talon
gotta be really patient or bring your own healers for xavius
fucking retards dispelling me when i play dwarf.
grim prism
I dont have a guild and i think i plan to raid with a group next expac. I'm not too worried about it
waxen talon
Tbh if u play ur class well and learn mythic raiding fast
u can raid it with any class.
somber dragon
same, i just need to figure out what i want to main, i might have one alt 😄
waxen talon
just dont spam die.
grim prism
I'll just tell them about my big dick orange numbers and hope they dont go back and see i was just padding the whole time
somber dragon
i'll tell them i'm the most hardcore casual they've met, and I cuss like a sailor
and spell like the village idiot 😄
grim prism
I'll just get blackout drunk and faceroll a heroic pug for 8 hours then uninstall
somber dragon
YAH BOI!
waxen talon
ill just play bear and faceroll everything then unistall
frank mantle
Probs will take 8 hours just to pug kill mother lol
somber dragon
i mean.... bear does tank with fase
waxen talon
you could techically turn your ass towards the boss
it gotta be a really easy boss tho
somber dragon
TIL monks do that to build dodge stacks sometimes
grim prism
Perfect, now i have an excuse for fucking up alt night
waxen talon
i think ur better off just lettin co tank taunt and kick the boss
full hits sounds a bit ouch late expansion
somber dragon
tbh, the mention was on parjesh, let the mele add tickle you while you build enough dodge to guarantee a dodge on the spear
waxen cradle
Is it just me or are they waiting a very long time on Wowhead to do the Protection Warrior "review" or did they already do it ?
somber dragon
the one on the naga boss in eye
plain ice
i don't think they're doing on @waxen cradle
fossil spindle
am I the only one having problems with copying IP WA from pins? All I get are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
waxen cradle
I agree that is does not seem like they are going to which is sad @plain ice
undone sun
@fossil spindle works fine for me https://puu.sh/B74QR/95b2fae697.png
fossil spindle
hm, what the hell
waxen cradle
I kind of wonder why they want to all of a sudden make tanking more boring and unenjoyable for players... I wonder if they felt they over stepped and made tanking too attractive a role in Legion, and maybe did not make healing attractive enough as they said tanks had became too strong. So the solution was to make the tank role less attractive and more reliant on healers so those whom play healers need to do more and interact more in the fight.
Of course bare in mind that could back fire if they step too far in the direction of tanks relying on healers because those whom play healers and enjoyed the Legion model may grow to hate the new model they have in there minds .
waxen cradle
The balance that I would personally hate to be part of is the definitive decision of how strong to make tanks, or healers because I can see it being a tough balance of keeping both groups marginally reigned in so as to prevent one or the other from becoming too reliant or independent of one another.
In other words how much tuning is needed to hit that sweet spot
fossil spindle
@undone sun And now it works, no idea what was that about.
undone sun
¯_(ツ)_/¯
frank mantle
i mean in general less than half a groups damage will be tank damage
dusky sentinel
Im a healer main and I dont agree with you. Thats probably why ;) Legion tanks could stay alive on their own due to soaking mechanics. Which made them gods and to easy to play. Judging by beta players. Its seems more challenging now than before. And me as a shaman in legion found myself thinking. Shiiit. Havent healed the tank in awhile. Oh. He good
Ofc im overexaggerating. But u get the point
somber dragon
having casually played heals/tank/dps (FILTHY4LYFE) i agree with the above
frank mantle
i dont want tanks to be totally self sufficient either, but that doesn't mean certain tanks dont need some buffs
somber dragon
i'd honestly rather them nerf some and keep the power creep lower at the moment ¯_(ツ)_/¯
somber dragon
yeah, but oftentimes a small buff/nerf to something now ends up being more major later on when the gear does scale
crisp surge
i have all the artifact but the 2nd one on the left how do i get that
------------^ see the 2nd one where i get that one
undone sun
Balance of Power I think nevermind, that's on the middle right
I can't tell nor remember what the middle one looks like
final mist
IIRC that last one is the PvP one
undone sun
Yup
crisp surge
ohh pvp one
that would be why i dont have it
ahha
why when i look up pvp artifact it comes up with mage tower
??? i did that
undone sun
crisp surge
does unlocking the colors give you the weapon ???
twin eagle
Has anyone noticed if Riftworld Codex is proccing with a fairly strong buff? I had one in my bag and it seems stronger in prepatch
hasty sapphire
is Devastator still ahead in case of Dmg on Beta? like is it the go-to, even without legendaries? just in case of raid ST, cant see it become better than BV/AM for M+ tbh
robust urchin
I recently got obliterated by a 113 balance druid on my prot warrior
I don't know how to deal with this
unique echo
was your prot warrior 120?
Are prot warriors as bad as Sco's videos rank for raiding/m+? I'm trying to take his view with a grain of salt, but seems like it's a pretty accurate ranking. Do we really struggle that much compared to other tanks?
unique echo
So we are in a better place than described?
charred vigil
I’m not sure I’m not the expert though. He really dogged Prot warriors in mythic + though. Made them sound like you should avoid. Granted his videos aren’t the be all end all of wow tanking.
unique echo
How do we hold up in M+ than (in your opinion)? Damage intake junk but dps good? Or who would you say is better/worse?
amber siren
Warriors are the best CD tank right now and the only real downfall is our abilities take pre-planning rather than spamming ironfur/stagger
charred vigil
I didn’t play any beta so I don’t know what the tanks feel like at 120 with azerite traits.
amber siren
Unless you're planning to raid top 10 world
Your choice of tank doesn't matter as long as you aren't bad
sick sentinel
charred vigil
Lol my guild just wants to be able to do +15s and heroic raiding
amber siren
Then warrior will be more than capable of doing that content
Same as VDH
Or prot paladin
Etc etc
unique echo
Same here Joe.. probably dabble in some Mythic raiding but not clearing it
sick sentinel
long as you know how your class tank specc works, its rotations and CDs, and not spam them pointlessly, and specc your talents accordingly to the situation/content, with your consumes, they'll all do fine. Prot warrs included.
charred vigil
The only other class I’ve considered is brewmaster. I’ve been warrior for years but I do like how brewmaster plays
My co tank will be a VDH
robust urchin
Yes my warrior is 120
charred vigil
That sucks
unique echo
I love the monk but I'm often as brewmaster and in wpvp, I get obliterated
charred vigil
I feel like I do pretty well in wpvp with brew. It’s not like blood though where I can take on like 4 people at once
drowsy mango
Just reading over these last few messages, why does Prot War require more pre-planning? I'm planning on maining one I'm BfA
I've always preferred being more of a reactive Tank, I don't really enjoy pre-emptive cool downs and all that stuff I'm not a planner haha
Main reason I want to play a Prot War is their mobility though. Which I love.
amber siren
Warriors have always required effective SB uptime combined with rolling DS/LS/SW since Legion, and with BFA's IP nerf that buffer will fall even heavier on effective CD usage
We don't have any reactive defensives like DK's self healing for example
tiny sphinx
least forgiving of mistakes ~ haunting words warriors live byyyyy ~
ember arrow
autumn laurel
Yea, if reactive tanking is what you’re looking for, Prot is not that at all unfortunately
Extremely proactive
Blood and Vengeance would be your thing
silk portal
I just love how the new prot warrior plays
I'm going to be the off-tank for my guild, with a Prot Paladin as main tank
junior igloo
What's the difference between a main tank and an off-tank?
sand saffron
Prot warrior feels awful to play imo with the GCD changes and devestator not being as juicy a pick anymore
Here's hoping it gets better
tight tree
It feels slower and more rhytmical, instead of being hectic spam. I don't mind devastate, pretty much every tank have filler button.
junior igloo
I find Devastate super boring, but that's personal opinion of course.
None of the other tanks that I play (paladin, DK, monk) have fillers
cosmic cargo
HoTR 😛
sand saffron
Just sucks having ip get slashed then they throw it on the gcd
cosmic cargo
tiger's palm, kinda
sand saffron
I wouldnt mind one or the other
cosmic cargo
devastate feels considerable worse for me than HoTR though, even with very similar use
tight tree
I dont play paladin, monks have tiger palm, druids swipe, DHs shear
ornate sky
what does devastate even do in bfa.. is it purely just dmg/threat? zero rage gen/procs etc.? (nvm still procs shield bash cds)
rapid trench
monk TP is more used as a rotational button than a filler
tight tree
I dislike that we have to choose what to dump rage for, IP or revenge. What happened with Blizz philosopy "do damage while being defensive" 😭
junior igloo
You can't spam HotR, it has a cooldown, though I admit that it's not a very inspiring button to press without BH talented, you have the otherwise empty GCDs to do it.
You can't spam Tiger Palm, it cost energy, and it's hardly a filler since it generates brews, it's a key ability.
tight tree
Dev needs to be more functional for sure
ornate sky
devastate generates shield slams
cosmic cargo
HoTR's CD doesn't come into play all that often tbh (at least with CJ)
tight tree
Its just i dont mind pressing it, just as i dont mind pressing swipe
junior igloo
@ornate sky
Devastate can reset the cooldown of Shield Slam, so it has some value, but it's very counterintuitive when and why to use IP instead
cosmic cargo
since empty globals are rare or non-existant
tight tree
If they remove IP from GCD, warriors would be too OP i guess
rapid trench
I dont see how that would be the case
cosmic cargo
not really
tight tree
I just like to use it .5 seconds before hit, and now i have to wait it feels shitty, agreed 😭
junior igloo
I don't really think that paladins are GCD capped on single target.
You need either a lot of GC procs from AoE or spamming Consecration too much (there is no benefit in recasting it early).
More importantly, on serious content you have to run BoL anyway
tight tree
Every defensive on GCD feels bad, same with guard. On my druid i pretty much stopped using regenration, unless i am running to the boss or between the pulls
rapid trench
tbf on monk nothing at all changed unless youre using guard
tight tree
But also because it heals for shit and i am rather busy using my GCD for generating rage for ironfurs 😉
cosmic cargo
and even in m+ HT will still be the most common pick
tight tree
But i dont dislike warrior, will main unless they will be tuned down to shit
cosmic cargo
i sadly do
warr was easily my favorite or second favorite in antorus
now
it's close to last
waxen cradle
We will see where final release tuning lands at. I expect either a final tuning pass before BFA launches and if not a tuning pass then... I certainly expect one when raiding begins
tight tree
I played guardian in antorus, per my guild's request, but is is so boring so i will not consider it even if it is best ever
So warr/monk for me, hardly time to play more than 2 characters
maybe warr/dh for m+
cosmic cargo
my problem with warr is not how strong or weak it is
tight tree
I love DH but raid viability bothering me
cosmic cargo
it's the gameplay, not fun for me atm
junior igloo
Surely you wouldn't let your guild down by not playing druid it it's needed 😄
waxen cradle
I intend to run Warrior/DK/ and either Druid or DH
tight tree
My loyalty has its limits lol
cosmic cargo
i mean there's not really a reason to play bear over monk
junior igloo
That's a pretty bold statement 😃
tight tree
Tuning will show
cosmic cargo
they're very similar but monk is basically better at almost everything atm
cosmic cargo
even during tomb/antorus monk was just better than warr
junior igloo
Those things can change just like that snaps fingers
waxen cradle
I think people are still forgetting that maybe not a lot but some tuning is still yet to come
junior igloo
Warrior was best in EN and worst in Nighthold and those 2 instances were the same tier.
Almost no changes to any classes except a nerf to one ability
tight tree
Well on druid i was brick wall, same with monk (played as alt)
cosmic cargo
doubt any tank tuning will happen until hc week
after hc week and/or first mythic week
sure
that's mostly because how magic heavy NH was
waxen cradle
Like I said I suspect a tuning pass of some sort around launch, and definitely one when raid opens. The first is iffy, the second is pretty much guaranteed.
junior igloo
@cosmic cargo
It was, but it shows that it can happen any time.
A key boss (hard tank boss or final boss of an instance) has 1 ability that can't be blocked - warriors are instantly dumpster tier
tight tree
That can happen yes
Sometimes i think that class designers never communicate with encounter designers in Blizz 😉
Well BRF and NH made me ace at calling externals 😃
cosmic cargo
i still think pala is going to be a big winner this tier
because of how magic heavy g'huun is
tight tree
But there could be a point when it is not same to put pressure on raid when you can play tank that have less problems. It is a thin line.
sane*
Pala seems to be good all-around.
cosmic cargo
wasn't warr good in BRF? (i didn't raid in wod)
tight tree
only tank i never ever tried 😉
Warrior was terrible in BRF mythic
It was then i started considering rerolling for progress, was hardcore 100% warrior before that
Now i have 2-3 tanks at reasonable levels most of the time.
Look and feel wise warrior always be my favorite, that shield slam sound, that awesome armor mogs. i want it to be fun and viable so much 😉
limpid dagger
Their current version of am and IP is just asking for a rework in 8.1 so there may be hope 😂
junior igloo
Biggest design problem of warriors is Anger Management imo
cosmic cargo
how so?
remote gate
Is it just me or would the feel of warrior tanking get much better if they took IP of the global cooldown to get it more fluent?
junior igloo
Level 90 talents: good option between Devastator and BV, you can choose your preferred play-style.
Unless you have AM, in which case you use Demo Shout twice as often, getting the benefit of BV twice as often, making it the only viable talent.
Level 60 talents: good option between Indomitable and Bolster (Never Surrender is a bit trickier), different situations would favor different option (constant EHP vs. a strong cooldown).
Unless you have AM, in which case you use LS twice as often, making Bolster twice as good and the only viable talent.
Level 45 talent: good options again, unless you have AM, you know the drill, UF is the only viable.
Level 15: ITF on AoE/standing close to other vs. Punish when more isolated, or better EHP on single target?
Unless you want to feed your AM with more rage making ITF the best.
The synergy between AM and one cooldown-based talent on every row makes it better than other options, which forces one playstyle as the only real option in all situations, and pigeon holes the class.
cosmic cargo
a buff of some sort to HR could fix that
possibly make it increase your crit block chance slightly during SB or something like that
junior igloo
Doubtful
The problem is that the talents are ok-balanced by themselves.
It's the synergy that breaks it
cosmic cargo
so HR needs to be strong enough to beat the synergy
which yes means making it borderline overpowered
junior igloo
And if you balance it with the synergy in mind, you have another problem where it's "all or nothing" (let's say that you can't take one of the talents - say Bolster for whatever crazy reason: if the talents are balanced with the synergy in mind, they are now weaker and useless - similar issue, just from the other side)
cosmic cargo
yeah i agree
then a more elegant option to avoid pigeon-holing would be having a line where all talents affect your CDs
so all gain for the synergy
and other lines, none gain from it
UF is a different story imo, it's a defensive+offensive talent on an offensive+utility line
yes it gains from the synergy but it'd win out anyway in a raiding environment
junior igloo
Yep, that's what they did for fury for example:
- all talents affecting Rampage are on the 75 level, so you can't take them both for the synergy
- all talents affect Recklessness are on 100 (Reck more often vs. longer)
etc.
Same with ret:
- talents for holy power generation are all on level 30
- another set of talents with generation + AoE are on 60
etc.
cosmic cargo
so bolster + BV + maybe something affecting wall in the same line
devastator, revenge and something else on another
though tbf BV has double synergy with AM in a way
which makes it even harder to balance
waxen cradle
Yeah but then we get there BS about talents rows being designated to one specific thing which they said they do not like, but they are more then willing to allow it for certain specs and not others
junior igloo
Dragon Roar generates Rage
10 per 35s (17 per minute)
So you can balance UF to make Avatar generate 25 extra rage (~ 17 per minute).
But AM will break it either way
junior igloo
I think what they didn't want is:
1 AoE talent in every row. (Because then you have to take it on AoE fights)
3 AoE talents in one row is fine.
Current prot is actually what they didn't want: 1 "cooldown" talent on every row
cosmic cargo
I hope they do a light pass by prot in 8.1 but I'm not too hopeful
rapid trench
wouldnt prot without am be in a pretty terrible state tho
waxen cradle
I mean lets assume you are correct @junior igloo and I personally feel you are about how they did not want 1 cd talent on every row. I can think of no other reason why they would go ahead and allow it to happen to prot if they were not aware that it was going to happen, or for that matter had a definitive direction they wanted to take the spec as a whole.
spare pawn
Is there a filler spell in the prot rotation
find myself using ss. revenge and thats really it
undone sun
devastate
make sure to use thunderclap as well
devastate is only a pure filler, TC and revenge also help reset the cd of ss
junior igloo
So does Devastate
undone sun
also
spare pawn
so take vengeance on the talent tree?
amber siren
no
spare pawn
booming voice?
amber siren
yep
spare pawn
kty
hot locust
Or just nerf it and make our CDs matter again.
cosmic cargo
warr CDs do matter though
hot locust
I'd rather AM get gutted and be balanced around not having it than the nightmare of trying to balance it otherwise.
hot locust
AM is the only thing holding us up.
cosmic cargo
demo shout is a better barkskin generally
hot locust
Its atrociously strong.
broken kite
am is nice design
hot locust
Except that demo doesnt work on environmental effects or things out of range...
broken kite
more rage faster cds
cosmic cargo
only instincts is better really
broken kite
more rage implies more need for cds