Stagger is recalculated every hit.
#protection
magic turret
Apparently not.
main vault
And arguing it's not a weakness is wrong
Smaller hits makes it not worth purifying
Meaning you take everything you staggered
And literally get trickeled to death
strong forum
Yup
magic turret
That's actually not true at all. Stagger accumulates to a balance point.
main vault
No it doesnt
strong forum
You can hardly get a yellow let alone red stagger
With the small hits
Thus puriyfing much less
uneven mason
So, Nexii is correct on this, Stagger is MUCH stronger vs large damage
strong forum
If at all
magic turret
Nomeratur it's a funciton of damage not size of hit
uneven mason
IF, you had unlimited uses of Purify compared to damage in the stagger pool
than lower damage would be irrielevent
magic turret
It is OP vs large hits, it's not weak vs. small hits.
main vault
Ever since shuffle and elusive dance was a thing, stagger has been weak against smaller hits
grim prism
#brewmaster
uneven mason
Its "weaker"
not weak
Warriors mitiage the same vs small/large hits in essence
so its not a problem for us
main vault
If you are getting hit and don't purify you mitigated 0 damage
Which is what happens with smaller hits
stray wedge
What does 'linearizes' mean?
uneven mason
he means smooths
strong forum
Smooth was my guess
magic turret
It functions as a rolling average. It's smothing / linearizing the damage
final mist
That's... Staggering means that you still take that damage, just over a specific length of time.
I.E. Stagger's duration.
Unless you Purify, that damage still exists.
magic turret
And?
stray wedge
what is your actual argument?
strong forum
You need more healing if you can't purify
uneven mason
Right, smaller hits build up and continue to tick in stagger
final mist
You don't have enough Purifies to deal with everything a M+ throws at you effectively.
uneven mason
thus you won't burn purify
stray wedge
what is the statement you are trying to justify?
main vault
That stagger isn't weaker against smaller hits @stray wedge
strong forum
Big bois coming out monkaS
stray wedge
relative to what?
final mist
Stagger / Brew system being weaker in dungeons as it is in Raids.
magic turret
I'm familiar with Macrologia, he was the reason for my "Purifying Irrelevant Stagger" meme.
stray wedge
i don't remember you or that meme sorry
magic turret
Although, I did agree with him in principle.
stray wedge
weaker relative to what nexii
magic turret
It had something to do with oyu talking about Stam I believe
stray wedge
that sounds vaguely familiar
main vault
Relative to bigger hits
uneven mason
The stagger mechanic is effectively the same vs all damage, however how players utilize it to deal with large bursts vs smaller hits makes it effectively weaker vs small consistent damage compared to single large bursts.
stray wedge
if stagger is weaker in dungeons than in raids, that's just a factor of healer attention requirements, surely?
nothing inherent
gleaming blaze
And Block for Warriors is effectively the same vs all damage with the way BLocking damaged works and gets capped at 85% right?
uneven mason
Right
magic turret
Yes, but you aren't saying that block is stronger vs. large hits because it mitigates more damage.
strong forum
because its the same vs small and large hits
gleaming blaze
So what makes warrior better with smaller numerous hits is instead to do with Rage generation from getting hit
uneven mason
Its how we as players react to the damage is what makes the difference, a Monk can take their staggered portion of that large hit and purify it, thus completely negating that portion while as a warrior has no post process to go through, we've reacted (by using shield block or IP) already taken the action.
strong forum
as monk you midigate dmg by purifying the accumulated stagger, with small hits you dont accumulate stagger as much and cant purify, if i got that correctly
warri just blatanly midigates on the spot
stray wedge
you can't purify everything, but you can't block everything either
strong forum
yea
uneven mason
This is true
stray wedge
not really an important point to make imo
uneven mason
I agree
gleaming blaze
But we generate more rage than we can spend with tanking smaller numerous hits
strong forum
thats not on the current topic
broken kite
Are all the other class discords as... Passionate as* protection warrior?
magic turret
BrM used to be.
magic turret
But then a bunch of people left when memes were frowned on.
strong forum
same ikari
broken kite
By passionate I mean argumentative and contentious
uneven mason
I used too
lapis gazelle
I don't see enough memes in here
uneven mason
to try and have tanking discussions
lapis gazelle
FeelsBadMan
broken kite
🤔
uneven mason
but paladins were all about slutmogs
broken kite
Ew
uneven mason
and Guardian druids were talking about how their leg animation got fixed
broken kite
Lol
uneven mason
VDH are split between 2 discords
broken kite
Yeah that's weird
strong forum
warri is just a way of life man
uneven mason
BrM seem like really passionate folks tho
gleaming blaze
@strong forum this discussion spawned from the debate about whats better in M+
strong forum
yea i know
uneven mason
We both bring solid utility (Monk might lead here)
broken kite
Idk brm takes non blockable damage way better
uneven mason
Monks are probably stronger at kiting
broken kite
(obviously)
broken kite
Throw coin on high lower comes to mind
strong forum
you just dodge that
grim prism
This place doesnt seem to have changed in the two years I've been here, just four tiers in a row of "SCO SAYS WE ARE BAD WHY EVEN BOTHER PLAYING" interspersed with occasionally actually talking about mechanics. It's a nice place; I've seen much worse.
uneven mason
there are 2 throw coins one is the ground hit and the other generally one shots your healer
final mist
I've stamped down on the Sco shit - trained you boys well enough that I don't have to talk about it myself anymore.
I'm so proud 
stray wedge
.
uneven mason
😡
stray wedge
we don't talk about that
undone sun
uneven mason
The walls were shaking at #bfa-Protection
strong forum
warris are just more passionate than others i feel, every warri streamer i see mostly sticks to warri or plays it exclusively
final mist
Messages containing "Preach" and "video" will be autobannable offenses once we get Marok to use Warden
Jsyk
grim prism
Did you guys see Sco livestreaming NH on his war tank for an alt run? I think we should seriously consider the possibility that Sco just isnt the best at warrior
final mist
grim prism
Also, Preach's "truffle shuffle" video on raid positioning is actually pretty gudshit
broken kite
Warriors have to be passionate
grim prism
No ban pls
lapis gazelle
👍
uneven mason
I mean, I had rage IRL until I had Rage in game, then I was all like ☮
broken kite
I know I play for the orc warrior class fantasy myself
magic turret
I'm not going to lie. I mostly play my warrior because I have the OG PvP mog
grim prism
I usually play rogue but I'm shit at pve and tanking is easy 😬
magic turret
Alliance PvP mog, Horde is kinda trash.
uneven mason
Warrior mog best mog
strong forum
ah, i see you are a man of culture aswell cora
magic turret
lol
final mist
Alliance
broken kite
I think we're that small intersect where we care about performance (we're here) but also love prot (we're here and not in fotm tank discord)
final mist
Enjoy ur ban m8
green isle
?
uneven mason
The fact that they remade the Tier 6/Season3 sets in HD
undone sun
thonking
final mist
You too Jacob
uneven mason
made me all warm and fuzzy
green isle
alliance is like
final mist
Death to Sylvanas and death to the Alliance tbh
green isle
objectively the best faction and you're wrong if you think otherwise
magic turret
I love it when people (generally new players), are like "OMG where''d you get that mog?"
"I got it in AB and WSG... 100 hours a week... 14 weeks..."
broken kite
Why can't we react here 🤔 🤔
strong forum
cuz its toxic
uneven mason
AKA - I paid my roomates in beer to play my character for me back in college while I slept/went to classes
strong forum
mostly
grim prism
Ah yes, poorly-written kludgey fucks that we are
grim prism
👎
uneven mason
Nice knowning you
magic turret
Horde are the crybaby snowflakes of WoW... ERMAGAWD BLIZZARD PALLY SO OP! GIVE US PALLY! F--- LORE!
uneven mason
Dwarf - Mages, Coramac
grim prism
"FUCK LORE" -ion hazzikostas
uneven mason
DWARF - Mages, F Alliance lore continuity
magic turret
ERMAGAWD OUR RACES ARE SO BAD GIVE US SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE TRASH! GIVE ALLIANCE SQUID PEOPLE!
uneven mason
"Lets take this space faring race of aliens who use the Light all the time and give them Shamans cause - FUCK YOUR LORE HAHAHAA, ELEMENTAL GOATS"
strong forum
because of recruitment nexii
and it will never change
never ever will it change again
that horde has the hardcore pve players
main vault
If alliance was so good they wouldn't have to go horde to recruit
magic turret
Recruitment?
main vault
People would be on alliance
uneven mason
TFW they bring back racial priest spells and give the alliance all the good ones for 1 Xpac to shift the balance again
final mist
That would require all the troll DPS to be
grim prism
Sylvanas: "KILL MALFURION EVEN THOUGH YOU JUST SAVED HIS LIFE THREE TIERS AGO AND YOU MAIN A DRUID"
Horde player: "Uhh.. but.. okay?"
final mist
Not trolls
strong forum
playerbase is 50-50, but most hardcore players are on the horde side, thus the hardcore alliance guilds find less and less prominent players
and thus switchting to horde
scrubbusters the last top 10 guild that wasnt horde switched over for that reason
not because horde is so cool
main vault
I don't think playerbase is 50/50 anymore
magic turret
I believe racials favor horde
strong forum
hah DS nerf
grim prism
Its not that "most hardcore players are horde", it's that the hardcore players on alli are offset by the literal children who are just subbing and want to be the good guys
strong forum
ÖIÖ
final mist
Ikari, when did you get promoted?
strong forum
thats just toxic
final mist
hidden cipher
It is indeed they are on horde.... look at the top 100 raiding guilds
main vault
What's the highest Ally guild now?
magic turret
I played my BDK... It made me sad post prepatch
main vault
20ish.
hidden cipher
It's horde by a MASSIVE landslide at the top 5%
main vault
30ish?
final mist
I don't mind the OT here for a bit
hidden cipher
yeh not even in top 25 atm I don't think
strong forum
scrubbusters was the highest alliance guild, and switched to horde for RECRUITMENT
grim prism
That just means horde is better 😂
final mist
Kind of a lull until prepatch is over
uneven mason
Yeah
final mist
So it's okay
grim prism
Sal is just here for the lulls
uneven mason
Its like
main vault
In the end it doesn't really matter why the swapped
uneven mason
Horde v Alliance
main vault
The better players are horde
hidden cipher
Indeed
uneven mason
Well, I mean, we just had to deal with an entire Xpac as Warriors
strong forum
why try to recruit between 100 good alliance players when theres 1000 on horde
uneven mason
sitting in an Alliance themed Class Hall
strong forum
if you compete for top 10
final mist
You idiots know how I be, the OT is fine until someone comes in asking a question, in which case it's super cereal mode for a bit
prisma crane
well, as a frequent tangent talker, i love OT convos, at any times, provided they dont drown out actual useful / relevant stuff
main vault
Noone cares about lore when killing bosses
prisma crane
the older i get, the more lore interests me
main vault
That guy is just as bad lol
strong forum
i started playing wow without caring about lore, but the longer i played and the older i got i got more and more into lore
and now im hooked since legion
final mist
Dude ngl, the song is catchy as fucj
uneven mason
I'm more shocked on the fact that Proudmore might get some
final mist
And I hate Jaina now
uneven mason
character development beyond "Crazy murder lady"
uneven mason
Like her role in the past 2 books
strong forum
FUCKING GOOSEBUMPS MAN
final mist
The song and her VA as just
uneven mason
could be summed up as "shows up to wedding as angry ex GF, makes everyone uncomfortable, scowls and leaves"
uneven mason
This seems to be her owning it tho
strong forum
now yes, shes put up with sitting around, collaborating trying to be pacifist
final mist
Eh, I can understand being a bit angry... but her response to Garrosh bombing her city and killing civilians was to... flash flood Orgrimmar and drown civilians
uneven mason
like she's spent the whole time since MoP lashing out at everyone else like, miss, you got your father killed, and then expected everyone else to join you on the Peace Mobile Crazytime ride - then when no one else did, and it crashed and burned its their fault?"
final mist
Total 180 for Jaina and I just didn't like it
uneven mason
#garroshdidnothingwrong
final mist
Eh let's not get too crazy
uneven mason
But Garrosh didn't kill Civilians
strong forum
even more
uneven mason
He actually let them evacuate
final mist
Garrosh was a bloodthirsty ego maniac and he deserved everything get got coming to him
uneven mason
literally gave them all the time they wanted
final mist
He let them evacuate and then captured them and killed them anyways
uneven mason
some of them
lapis gazelle
Laura Bailey 😍😍
uneven mason
some..
magic turret
Who remembers Garrosh crying in TBC?
final mist
"Some" doesn't make it any better
strong forum
garrosh reminds me of vegeta, people love him even though he is a cunt
final mist
It's still a war crime
strong forum
i dont understand
uneven mason
but I mean, he could have bombed the city without any warning
magic turret
Vegeta is way better than Garrosh.
final mist
The Horde was always about honor and pride and shit, and Garrosh took a huge fuckin' dump all over that
And Sylvanas is now too
strong forum
Sylvanas gon' die
lapis gazelle
Sylvanas is "morally grey" tho
magic turret
Garrosh is basically the kid who was made fun of because he didn't have a daddy and cried all the time. Then hit the gym later and bought a bunch of guns and went postal.
strong forum
she gon die
final mist
They represent everything the Horde isn't supposed to be
uneven mason
But yeah, the Jaina vid.
final mist
Either way I'm actually going to play a maghar orc because I'll get to be a real chad orc
strong forum
good shit
uneven mason
Totally feels like she's finally owning it
final mist
And not the virgin hunched over ones
magic turret
LOL
lapis gazelle
Chad orcs
strong forum
dank iron dwarf for me
uneven mason
She's having her "its all because of this" realization
grim prism
Guys, come on.
uneven mason
Hope she kills her mother to take over the fleet
lapis gazelle
Jaina is badass
uneven mason
Don't get carried away
deft dove
Upper Kara: Anyone else experience last second Disintegrate Focusing Tank?
strong forum
monkaS
grim prism
Youve NEVER seen blizzard do a corrupted hero storyline
strong forum
its bugged~ish i heard
final mist
I was dead set on NB (because I love the NE model even though I hate the Alliance 
) until I saw the Mag'har Orcs with their total chad posture
grim prism
This is groundbreaking shit here
uneven mason
the NB models are cheap
final mist
Oi you take that back
deft dove
I put a Trouble ticket in for it already just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing it, Thanks Nomeratur
strong forum
they have different attack and running animations
final mist
They're not supposed to be new races
uneven mason
they have the same gait without the adjustment for scale
final mist
They're literally meant to be exactly what they're billed as
Slight adjustments for the opposite faction
Both NB and VE
strong forum
"looks at lightforged draenei / highmountain tauren" revolutionary
uneven mason
I don't mind copy paste, but like, there is lazy and then there is trying to be blatantly "We had an intern do this"
strong forum
same thing
final mist
Mag'har orcs are literally re-skins
final mist
Highmountain have antlers and tattoos
magic turret
lol Lightforge Draenai aka OP Shadowpriests.. wait wut?
strong forum
all allied races are just reskins from an intern
final mist
Zandalari are literally the male NE model, reskinned
uneven mason
So the thing with the HM tauren, and LF Draeni is the textures didn't need to be recreated for them over the skeletons
the NB they TRIED to do new textures over the old skeletons and ended up making them look horrifyingly bad
they got some reworking
but, they still need some touchups
final mist
The NB models we have are literally the same NB that are in the game
lapis gazelle
Zandalari trolls look cool
deft dove
They've been Scrubbing and Rehashing everything since Vanilla , Half the fight mechanics are basically just skin covers for Fights from the very early expansions with slight flavor changes.
uneven mason
the NPC and PC models are not the same
strong forum
you just made my day " do a compare" english xDD
uneven mason
there was quite a bit of fuss raised over that
magic turret
Molten core fights were largely just rehashed EQ fights mostly PoP
deft dove
Yep
strong forum
i imagine an indian accent with that ikari
and yet people want vanilla back
amazing raids ResidentSleeper
magic turret
I loved Vanilla.
strong forum
people will clear vanilla raids in 1 day
and then be like.. this isnt what it used to be
lapis gazelle
🤔
spring grail
i remember growing up playing vanilla when it first came out when I was 15/16
magic turret
I don't know, there were a lot of mechanics, but largely different
spring grail
good times
strong forum
hardest thing about vanilla i reckon was is getting 40 people to not be retarded
deft dove
Tank getting punted and not being at the right spot to get stopped by the wall.....
magic turret
LOL, I still remember the onyxia spot
deft dove
UBRS Raids )
lapis gazelle
So it was barely playing
magic turret
Naw, but most of the fights had a lot of raid movement just different.
strong forum
i started TBC, but i wont try vanilla once it comes out, nothing new
lapis gazelle
Then I played on and off
magic turret
Like Sulfuron most people pulled adds away individually to kill
Many of the fights were technical, but technical in a different manner.
strong forum
also vanilla will 100% be different from actual vanilla
magic turret
True
strong forum
so it will no matter what, be somewhat of a disappointment to veterans in some way
magic turret
I know for a lot of MC we still used healer rotations.
main vault
Im calling it now
If they don't stagger the raids classic will be cleared in 6 months
magic turret
IT won't take that long
main vault
Im factoring leveling and rep farms
magic turret
They need to take a page from EQ and do progression servers
main vault
Probably will take about 4 but still
I'd love a vanilla server for a year or two then free xfer to a bc and so on
magic turret
Yep, EQ has a server vote to unlock or after x amount of time after the final raid of that era was cleared
main vault
Im not gonna lie
magic turret
Yea, live is good, but there's definitely something to be said for redoing old content legit
strong forum
this close to bfa i cant say for certain i wont play old xpac
magic turret
Most people who do progression servers in EQ also have a live character
mental rock
Threat nerf adds another mech to tanking in bfa
strong forum
maybe once bfa is halfway done i might have a different opinion
but rn i cant imagine playing old xpac
magic turret
I really do miss vanilla dungeon tanking though
strong forum
rhonus, not as much though
magic turret
The difference between tanks really showed up there.
strong forum
it wont matter in ST
and in dungeons if you know what you are doing its not a big deal at all
mental rock
Well it wasnt a thing at all for the last few expansions
magic turret
stat squishess and scaling things do odd things
And no one knows how everything is coded probably.
grim prism
Including Blizz devs
hardy walrus
because i block and have the buff that increase my next IP absorb but when i use IP it just absorb the basic and not consume the buff
it just work if i have a IP up and then block
strong forum
every 1 sec the stack gets increased by 4p
magic turret
Well, just think about how many people are involved and how many people leave and come back
strong forum
unless you drop it instantly it wont go down but up
magic turret
errr leave and new hires not come back
strong forum
thats new to me
hardy walrus
but if you use the IP next to consume that it doesnt consume
so is not buffing the next IP like it say
strong forum
well that might be a bug
hardy walrus
but it give you
strong forum
idk
hardy walrus
and it will make IP so good when you know you will gonna take a lot of damage so you can stack it and use IP right before
red wedge
It's probably not supposed to give you a "buff" if you dont have IP up. Since the tooltip says "current IP", I imagine that if you dont have IP up, a block isn't supposed to do anything to the next IP.
red wedge
Right
strong forum
without the increase from 4p
magic turret
And tha'ts so stupid
red wedge
That's what I would expect to happen with the way it's worded.
magic turret
really hurts that... one talent thing...
strong forum
you get giga IP for 12 sec
dont use it again within this time span
if it runs out reapply
sick sentinel
G I G A I P
strong forum
GIGA
undone sun
it's been like that for a while
hardy walrus
because that shit lie
undone sun
if it was a bug it likely would have been fixed by now
magic turret
maybe
I might still keep my 2pc NH set around on my BrM if bonuses don't get shut off 🤔
strong forum
btw whens sylvanas warbringer coming out?
sick sentinel
u guys think prot warrior will receive buffs ?
magic turret
ST or just AoE?
strong forum
aoe
sick sentinel
Only good AoE ST is decent
and even then DH has both better
move over to the vengeance kids
strong forum
warri does more aoe dmg than dh
by far
well not far
but quite a bit
@shut summit has a good a demonstration
of warri dmg
hardy walrus
i feel so squishy in m20+ :S
ember arrow
what dun
hardy walrus
arcway and in general
strong forum
well arcway is magic heavy af
hardy walrus
all is hitting more than before
strong forum
lala did the 23s right, cuz for a second i thought it was you
or did you do the 23s on bdk
i are confuse
ember arrow
dk
strong forum
ah
strong forum
git gud OpieOP
magic turret
I really haven't liked BDK post patch
strong forum
Post patch or prepatch
magic turret
lol
strong forum
Post patch was giga artifact
magic turret
after prepatch
magic turret
Yes, whatever. I didn't like the changes.
magic turret
No, nitpicking is one way to hone trolling abilities.
Which will be important in BFA since like we're supposed to PvP more now because of lore or something.
magic turret
It's nice to have control over stats again
"Bliz, I'm pretty sure my arms warrior wants some more mastery"
Bliz: "shhhhh, have some more crit"
strong forum
Well, mastery is fucked for arms atm
Crit is best stat
( don't know if that's what you were referring to either way)
magic turret
beginning of xpac
legion
Don't know how it ended up with the templates because I stopped PvPing so early, but seemed like every template had just terrible stat allocation
kind urchin
I don't like having to go to Org to toggle WM. Actually I don't even want it on but the stupid bonuses.
strong forum
Well it has to be a decision to opt into and out of it
So you can't abuse it as fast
And just swap on the spot
It's still fast but not as fast
And the entire phasing thing is prob quite some load for Blizzard outside of the main city where its disabled
Since it phases you everywhere but main city I reckon
ember arrow
u mean u dont have org port cloak?
or dalaran HS to get to org in 5 sec
or a normal HS to get to org if u made home there
or mages
ember arrow
well thats kinda the poijnt
strong forum
Exactly
ember arrow
"oh no im being ganked" oops pvp off
strong forum
Exactly, that's also why I won't immediately do war campaign
I won't go with war mode into horde infested zones. Nu uh
kind urchin
I was thinking more like toggling pvp used to work. Toggle on then if you want it off you have to stay out of pvp for a certain time.
kind urchin
I hate it.
strong forum
Then don't use it
It's all risk reward
I won't use it all the time, but often
10% is 10%
kind urchin
Most peopke seem to have it on right now which makes grouping for M+ a pita if someone doesn't.
strong forum
Yea
magic turret
Ah, wasn't 100% sure
strong forum
You could opt in to pvp, if you disabled it you would stay in pvp for 5 more min
magic turret
I see. I never played PvE. For the longest time, I had reverse camera bound to a hot button so i could scan for horde better.
magic turret
lol no...
errant ledge
If your bitching about war mode you dont belong in pvp. Period. The bonuses are there because your taking that risk. Dont like it? Dont pvp.
magic turret
I'm not going to lie and say I don't grief and corpse camp... but on low levels.. meh I don't get it.
ember arrow
well hes got a point
its not like urforced
and im finally illing to turn pvp on if theres a reward for doing so
so they at least convinced me
lapis gazelle
Yeah I know but he's being a dick about it lol
magic turret
Yea, the nature of PvP in this game has changed a lot. I came from Rallos Zek originally (EQ PvP server) and "PvP" was more PK oriented and no real reward.
It was more like Asshole community vs. SWJ / White Knights with "Normals" on the sidelines
magic turret
Welll... 🤔
More like... Assholes community vs. Asshole community vs. SJW / White Knights.
Player Kill[ing]
people who killed other players were PKs or player killers
ember arrow
i do miss lowbies watching as i kill alliance in eversong woods
because they arethere all the time
for some reason
errant ledge
Being a dick and being blunt is a fine line. Not everyone likes to hear the truth.
If my name was jolly rancher instead of whodaboss you wouldnt be as offended. If you were you must not enjoy pvp.
ember arrow
wat
sick sentinel
@magic turret pvp is in a perfect state
magic turret
At least i have
astral crystal
warmode is the best
at least now you know when you find someone out in the world that has it on
that they're about the bidness
sick sentinel
lol @astral crystal the bidness
tiny sphinx
a thorns build should be a thing in wow like it is in d3
kind urchin
In that case I would like shield cross as well. Only for warrior though of course.
molten nebula
Hey guys, what are the best heirlooms to use as prot? doing dungeons and quests is it valor or might?
i guess, what are the important secondary stats while leveling
junior ivy
i beat timer on a +21 for first time tonight
crystal night
Does Bolster act just like shield block as an active mitigation
Like for example, on Argus on last phase is i shield block I can survive a bunch of stacks but Ive been 1 shotted when i try to use last stand and demo shout on 4th stack hit
amber siren
Iirc LS is an AM with bolster but doesn't get the SS DMG bonus. But that said, the scythe isn't an AM check and the block from LS does work. You'd need to post a log for a definite answer why you died.
little star
ye i would like to see logs
amber siren
Also congrats @junior ivy
shut summit
@junior ivy 👏
junior ivy
ty 😄
sacred edge
To max your Cashe for the week you still need to do a +15?
junior ivy
yup
sacred edge
ty
junior ivy
itll be a +10 at beginning of BFA though
amber siren
Cat dropping sick knowledge bombs
amber siren
medivih? yeah you can only reflect one missile with SR so have to time it for the last one for the debuff iirc
sick sentinel
hi guys
i have recently got back to playing my prot warrior and i was wondering how do we survive with the nerf on IP
i have seen some logs on and most tanks dont even use IP
and someone used it like once during the whole fight
is it really that dead ?
amber siren
i'm assuming the top logs you're looking are DPS? IP is strictly a defensive ability now without renewed fury so they'll just be dumping into revenge
sick sentinel
im trying to tank for my guild honestly and i would love some tips
do you mind helping me out a lil ?
amber siren
I'll help where I can but I'm no means an expert
sick sentinel
share what you know with me maybe that will help fill the holes i have right now
amber siren
Well what are you confused about? There's a lot of information for beginners in the guide if you check the pin icon up top
sick sentinel
its just the use of IP honestly
and M+ dungs im having trouble there
find it harder to tank M+ than tanking in raids
amber siren
What level keys are you running?
sick sentinel
usually 13 - 18
amber siren
Have you checked your talents and gear on the guide? https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-pve-tank-guide
sick sentinel
yea i did
in M+ i use the gloves and the belt
my talents : Into the fray , crackling thunder , unstoppable force , Bolster , Rumbling earth , devastator ,Anger management
i have around 25% haste with into the fray im at like 42.5 %
amber siren
Ok
So first off, devastator is purely a single target DPS increase with gloves. It doesn't give rage anymore so it does nothing to help with IP or SB. BV is our go-to talent for 99% of everything now as it's an instant 40 rage for a quick SB in a pull
oak ermine
First thing id recommend is using the bracers tbh they do quite a bit of healing normally like 30-35% of my healing
amber siren
IP isn't as good as it was pre-patch simply because not only is it a smaller absorb, but it's on the GCD. You'll be using it to help damage intake but not to stop it. This makes using your CD's even more important.
sick sentinel
im mostly using LS on cooldown
amber siren
Bracers are OK if you need to be a bit beefier but RPM is definitely much less and you won't be having as much healing
oak ermine
rage is pretty high and its any rage spent so shield block, IP, revenge etc
i use the bracers and then swap around a bit depending on the m+ im running
sephuz is kinda nice right now, so are the legs
I find the belt less useful since 8.0 cause on a GCD and shorter cooldown anyway
amber siren
I'd argue the belt is a must with how it interacts now but 🤷
sick sentinel
i kindda like how i get Demo shout out of cool down real fast
oak ermine
It can help depending on the dungeon tbh but wasting the globals on demo shout even for the 40 rage i found just ended up wasting rage or gcds which are more needed to actually generate threat etc 😛 specially with some of the burst aoe damage some classes can do right now
sick sentinel
how do you manage to survive ?
oak ermine
am not an expert either tbh just going from my experiences, am only 240 ilvl equipped, no set, and have been doing up to +25s in time okay
some things can hurt but the bracers end up healing rather alot, and have been using sephuz more for the extra haste as can proc it pretty easily with shockwave / interrupt most of the time and the extra haste allows much faster GCD to get more stuff out
also been using chrono shard tbh along with the apolcalypse drive for harder hitting trash/bosses that ends up doing quite alot of absorb now too tbh even the raid finder one is like just under 5k per hit for 10 attacks and it resets really fast on smaller trash as -1 sec per melee hit
amber siren
I haven't heard anyone else having issues with physical damage or ditching the belt for bracers/sephuz but I haven't done much m+ since the pre-patch
oak ermine
Yeah I havent done much raiding since pre-patch so am more around trying to survive as best as i can while doing good damage in higher keys
with avatar up the cleave we can do atm is pretty crazy
but surviving is most important :p
topaz ember
omg i just remembered how i always get stuck with a shitty onehander b/c all the good ones go to dps
oak ermine
least now threat got nerfed we have that to use as an excuse 😛
ember arrow
Not really unless against havoc dh or fury war 😄
ionic fern
What does "large scale pvp" even mean? 🤔
amber siren
I'm guessing 40v40 🤷
round vortex
im sad team
After playing prot since 2009 I could be a monk convert 😦
TALK ME OUT OF IT!
solemn kelp
Don't do it.
latent scaffold
idk monk is good. not as good as MoP monk tho
ember arrow
pty sure the other talent is generally better
tiny sphinx
well, back in mop vengeance magnified it so basically your whole health bar and then some
ember arrow
rotation is fast, just not engaging
nothing to keep track of
ironskin on cd, and press the buttons in a prio system
keg smash, blackout and tiger palm
i also found no real reasons to purify yet
if i purify, and isb falls off i suddenly take a trillion dmg
while red stagger is easily managed
by healers
stagger is too powerful for what it does, and how easy it is to maintain
my monk is 23 and i can go tru 5-6 isb without downtime
unless that changes later
hollow pine
Yeah same, i mained monk since mop. They keep dumbing it down. I tried all the tanks and war is by far the most engaging.
waxen talon
Regardless what tank u play, when you're 2 years experience into the build it doesnt matter.
hollow pine
The only tank where you have to think about something
waxen talon
prot warrior can be played with closed eyes
hollow pine
Yeah i guess
waxen talon
the engaging thing should be the things to do
but then again it shouldnt be like because you're a bear you just ignore 90% of it
hollow pine
Bear is eyes closed and one hand with loud music to stay awake
waxen talon
bear is look at that ass twerking for 4hours on a raid night
hollow pine
Y
waxen talon
but tbh end legion prot warrior wasnt much better
the only engaging part is, "ARE YOU RAGE CAPPIN?" "IS YOUR IGNORE PAIN CAPPED"?
hollow pine
Didn't play it
waxen talon
and unless u did progress mythic no one would care if you just ignore both of those and spamed ignore pain
hollow pine
I was forced into monk and dk for progress
waxen talon
forced into bear, rip.
hollow pine
I'm trying to convince the guild war is viable
waxen talon
/gquit
waxen talon
1 thing is like
blaming a rogue for playing the wrong spec
but when it gets to the point of blaming a tank for playing a wrong class its just dumb
hollow pine
Yeah
Well it was encouraged, they'd gear up my dk quick for aggra and i wanted to get into m+ easier so i thought fine
waxen talon
monk was weird in legion
hollow pine
It has a good flow to it but simple af
waxen talon
but its such a meme when a bear / monk early legion talked about skills
hollow pine
Hahha
waxen talon
i remember my bear off tank having like at least twice as good cds and he was just this fat chunk of meat sitting htere
but warrior was way more efficent, if you could stay alive ofc.
hollow pine
Well I'm enjoying it now, i mean i want a sword and board tank and pala makes me go emo and suicidal
So boring
hollow pine
There is this mind numbing dullness
cursive pagoda
press a few buttons and nuke the planet
is what a paladin does
ret is so silly strong
junior igloo
The only tank I'd be comfortable playing with eyes closed is monk.
waxen talon
Well the current mentality of tanks is like
junior igloo
Not sure how you plan on timing Shield Blocks and cooldowns without looking
waxen talon
u got ur shield block + stuff up and let healers do their job
and i was talking about legion
with 100% uptime
junior igloo
Warriors didn't have 100 % up-time on Shield Block in Legion
waxen talon
Depends on boss, on patchwork 100% tank uptime, not really.
hollow pine
Don't they have even more in bfa with bolster?
Like i said haven't played prot prepatch though
cosmic cargo
you could have effective 100% uptime with HR but that hasn't been a thing for a while
storm valley
it is a lot less fire and forget
junior igloo
It's similar.
The cooldown on Shield Block went up from 13s to 18, so the up-time is lower.
But the general idea is the same
AM is still broken, pigeonholing the spec into into one set of talents and playstyle sadly
hollow pine
yeah i'm guessing there will be changes in 8.1 since they ran out of time
undone sun
there's always changes around the raid release, not necessarily because of time constraints
waxen cradle
Only change I want is the one most of us want which is IP off the GCD, but I am not holding my breath
waxen talon
ye that thing alone makes me consider prot warrior quite unplayable for world content
ember arrow
🤔
waxen cradle
As just about every Prot Warrior in here has already stated a million times having our defensive rage rage dump on the GCD Feelsbadman because we have to choose do damage or reduce damage, and I do not like that as the rest of us. Granted we can just hit revenge instead of IP but revenge is not doing anything to prevent rage capping especially on AoE when its free. Sure we can just hit revenge more when its not free, but yeah that feels bad also.
waxen talon
therees so many things wrong with current ip
cursive pagoda
maybe two prot warriors??
waxen talon
make revenge off gcd then
waxen talon
or make the choice depending on rage
cursive pagoda
instead of everyone doing everything
plus prot warriors got nothing to worry about
every class has some ridiculous cleave
ember arrow
what?
cursive pagoda
dps r your homies
what was the original topic
i thought people were just saying tanks were lacking?
waxen cradle
I guess I could get behind there idea of deal damage or reduce damage for a tank if after testing others tanks if it felt like we were the only ones making the choice of deal damage or reduce damage with a resource dump.
ember arrow
what do u mean only tanks
if a dk uses DS to do dmg he cant use it to heal
since the bottom heal is nerfed to the ground
cursive pagoda
healing throughput currently is delicious
waxen talon
Soulcleave /ds current is fairly similiar to ignore pain tho, not considering the major fct the 2 others hurt stuff.
cursive pagoda
im just a pvper anyway
ember arrow
ye but u dont use DS to hurt stuff in non trivial content
waxen cradle
Yeah I can agree DK's seem and feel not unlike Warriors with DS, but even when you DS to heal yourself for however a small amount DS while dealing trivial damage still does damage.
waxen talon
its the point of
ember arrow
well yes but u dont press it that often
waxen talon
i just used a GCD and did absolutely no harm
ember arrow
mistiming DS or wasting it will hurt u alot
if content is so eas it doesnt matter then... it doesnt matter
waxen talon
ofc u dont ds to do dps
waxen cradle
Agreed @ember arrow and it shows when you do
ember arrow
i know because i got 4k now on prepathc
so i leanred to time it
after artifact removal
think dk lost mroe than prot tbh
undone sun
🤔
waxen talon
it was for boss abilities yes
but it was still a shit unplesant button tat u had to channel then cancel.
fickle geyser
well prot doesnt feel good anymore, imo we lost alot
waxen cradle
NFury was good for boss abilities when used at the right time, but if you used it at the wrong time it did not matter anyway
undone sun
the ability itself wasn't the only thing we lost form the loss of the artifact
lots of very useful traits put us back quite a bit
waxen talon
demo shout, lst stand being op af.
block value
i think others have way more noteable stuff
waxen cradle
Yeah DS damage component, LS size increase, a lot of block value, reflective plating all come to mind
fickle geyser
before prepatch i didnt mind tanking even if im mainspec fury, now i really rather log off than tank in raids.
prot felt alot faster and more responsive
like u could do things with it
now its just getting hit in the face and not dying
waxen talon
tanks feels like a gimp spec like they used to in wotlk and prioer.
junior igloo
All specs lost artifacts an Legion is tuned accordingly, so I don't think it makes much sense comparing Legion vs. BfA in that sense
waxen talon
i odnt see any reason at all to even level up as prot
waxen cradle
Now as far as NFury is concerned I really like bolster because we more or less have NF merged with LS which is not bad
cursive pagoda
fury is obviously a dps class with self heals
arms is for pvp cleaving
prot is for.... cc
fickle geyser
prot used to feel alot like dps spec, thats why i liked it
waxen talon
pvp templates are a whole other scenario than pvp
fickle geyser
now i dont even bother
waxen talon
if they want to they just maek shield slam hit 100x the amount in pvp
than pve*
cant even commpare pvp/dps on same spec these days, pvp turns all numbers upside down
idk i wouldnt consider prot terribly usefull for leveling and world quests considering you dont even have heals
fickle geyser
well not totally like dps, but in raids it felt impactful to push for more
now it doesnt
waxen cradle
Honestly myself I am just kind of setting back and waiting to see Pre/Post raid release numbers tuning more then anything as we all know its coming because when has it ever not.
cursive pagoda
where are you trying to land concerning tank dps
for all we know it should be at the bottom compared to dps specs
or at least respectable
waxen talon
still matters if its 20% of a dps spec or 80%
i think in legion a tank was considered like 0.75x a dps
which was very very high compare to past ages
fickle geyser
well i used to do more than avg pug player easily with prot
fickle geyser
1.7m+ was doable in most fights in antorus
waxen talon
but around 75% of a dps spec seemed legit
cant base numbers of a expansion off 1 late expan tier tho 😛
i mostly outdpsed a guy or two here and there but was a significant way below
cursive pagoda
game might be harder now you know
cleave for a bunch of classes is based on charges now
or buffs
waxen talon
doesnt mean its harrder facepalm
cosmic cargo
the game harder now? what are you smoking?
waxen talon
for arms for example bladestorm is far more powerfull than i ever remember being
cleave is litterally more than +75% dps.
and u can spam for whirlwind to spam it
cursive pagoda
are you PvE
i wonder if there will be any raids at all lol
since its so fixated on pvp idk whats up
waxen talon
do u remember ashran?
that had nothing to do with legit pvp
it was more like pick that artifact and blow up everyone
fickle geyser
most ppl try to block ashran from memory
waxen talon
Ashran was good for a few hours tbh
undone sun
well it's coming back
waxen talon
its just legit worst place to land with a horrible team
cuz youre stuck there for a eternity with a bunch of retards
at least regular bgs would end ;
robust urchin
Does anyone know if Iron Fortress can stack? I only managed to find one piece of armor with it so far
amber siren
All azerite traits can stack
Like 99%, I don't know of any that don;t
Iron fortress does
cosmic cargo
many have an affect that doesn't stack but the "main value" always does
example cycle of binding for dh, the 2 sec CDR doesn't stack, the agility buff does
jade socket
A lot of cdr effects don’t stack
amber siren
Yeah which is why it's looking to be one of the better traits
junior igloo
I believe only the damage will double if you have 2 traits, the added duration will not.
amber siren
I thought the duration is increased as well?
kind urchin
Isn't it 1 defeaning crash and 2 iron fortress the optimal setup?
Or some combo of those two.
robust urchin
oh baby i just found a second iron fortress piece
junior igloo
The http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=278999/callous-reprisal doesn't look too bad
kind urchin
Does it refresh all stacks if you keep using revenge or does it work like ironfur?
sick sentinel
usually if it’s iron fur style it will say does not refresh all the stacks
signal plover
Assuming consistency in blizz tooltips/descriptions is a large leap of faith
small pumice
hows prot looking for m+? sorry if this is asked alot or answered i just joined the discord last night
old zephyr
lot of smashing, lot of damage reduction, few healing (none AFAIK) outside of Victory rush
small pumice
i mean more is it going to be viable for high keys? or did scos rankings ruin it for us lol. People gonna see that and herp derp not taking a prot warrior
undone sun
if you don't pug it's not a big deal
old zephyr
I'l not really a high M+ player so I dont care, but general opinion here is that Sco ranking is crap
small pumice
gotcha
dusk locust
for what it's worth, i'm doing alright in low to mid 20s keys on a character that never touched mythic raids
pushing keys is new to me though
crisp slate
Warrior is fine. Big dmg, good CDs, not a whole lot of self sustain, IP makes Warr better than a lot of tanks at magic dmg, etc. If you have a good healer, you can prob push keys. That being said - every tank gets completely obliterated atm imo
jade tartan
Guys, sorry to interrupt.
Do you guys know whats the ilvl of Mythic0 dungeons in BFA?
old zephyr
340
crisp slate
340 and I'd imagine pre raid TF cap will be 355 (this excludes Weapons that can only Warforge not TF and Azerite pieces which are set ilvl)
signal plover
TF cap goes to 400 when mythic uldir hits
crisp slate
Offensively, Warrior really feels the same. UF while Avatar is up is really a blast, kind of sucks I am abandoning ship for BFA 😦
signal plover
Bai
crisp slate
Not by choice - we have 2 dps warriors and no monks for 5% PHYS, being pigeonholed into BREW
signal plover
sad bai
main vault
Make a War go WW
crisp slate
hehe
uneven mason
^
crisp slate
class, but yea
main vault
You have to have the class yea
ember arrow
class yea
main vault
And if you force a tank to be the class that means you can't swap for a boss if needed so you are handcuffing the raid
crisp slate
Agree - but I really can't remember any encounter (outside of perhaps Vari) where Monk was unreliable in a progression scenario
main vault
It's more the principle than anything
Tanks just aren't the role you make those decisions for
wanton sentinel
Most mid-tier raid teams are irrational groups of people who think they're rational
crisp slate
Oh I am a fill for the team kind of guy anyways. Is Warr my fav? Sure. Will I do this for guild? Sure, as well.
wanton sentinel
(most of us are in mid-tier teams at best, I'd reason)
main vault
That's a terrible way to be
Then you end up like this playing a class you don't enjoy as much
old zephyr
if you have encounters that require you to kite the boss, position yourself or even split the raid, BOOM goes the debuff, if it's iven by the tank
main vault
They could recruit a WW or MW for the same debuff and not handcuff a tank to a class
wanton sentinel
At least it's not BDK. Boring af. Brewmaster is reasonably fun.
But otherwise agree w/ Nexii.
crisp slate
BDK was too strong. I pushed keys on it and made one for Agg, but I didn't particularly enjoy it's playstyle. I was akin to the OP BoS build back in WoD with it xD
Cheesy? Yea. Cool? YEA
ember arrow
instead of butchering tanks, they should make tanks have more options, so theyre more competitive
now its like "ye remove all the things"
uneven mason
Rolling off the edge of boss platforms is the #1 source of laughter in progression.
wanton sentinel
^^^
strong forum
I also hate monk playstyle dogc
wanton sentinel
Also missing a word there, bud. "Reasonably". Don't take shortcuts to belabour a point.
wanton sentinel
Compared to Druid, BDK, well...
modern brook
The only tank I have played thati dont like is BrM
main vault
I rolled on in MoP beta and just fell in love
uneven mason
Swiftly followed by that one time the VDH tried to be a badass and glided backwards off the edge by Gul'dans initial winds on pull.
modern brook
havent leveld a protadin yet
uneven mason
At least we have UF to mix things up occasionally!
strong forum
It's so lack luster for me
wanton sentinel
Prot Pal is OK. I changed to Warrior for BfA as it became stale. Good toolkit as always.
crisp slate
I like Brew. It's fine. If Salsalabim/Stormstouts playstyle was baseline in BFA - would be a huge boon to the "fun" of the spec for sure.
modern brook
I'm like quintuple-alting for bfa right now
and I'm desparately trying to narrow it down lol
uneven mason
3 weeks to level every tank
strong forum
I'm warri, maybe vdh, maybe affli but that's about it
modern brook
yeah my pally is 30 so he's basically BFA ready
strong forum
99% only being warri though