5-7k ST without getting hit
#protection
velvet tartan
hmm so that trait would roughly translate into 300 hps for 8 seconds for a total of 2.4k (if it's really only 3% leech)
strong forum
Thing is, there's more leech talents than that
There's also the green thingy in t2
Which I believe gives more leech
Like 80+
velvet tartan
yeah even on azerite gear there is leech in a different circle too right?
velvet tartan
Blood Siphon Increases your Mastery by 112 and your Leech by 57.
robust urchin
and tanking bosses i usually dont get many stacks on it
strong forum
I can solo have up to 48% haste on beta with procs
robust urchin
no i have the stupid dps trinkets from the prison and motherlode
its ok when im questing and have like 6 mobs on me then gameplay is rather smooth and enjoyable
But doing bosses in heroic dungeon is just so ugh
velvet tartan
how much HP does your warr have on beta atm @strong forum
strong forum
145k
primal rain
is ignore pain something i should have as much uptime as possible when I'm tanking??
jade tartan
tbh, I found myself only using IP pretty much as a rage dump 🤔
whenever I'm like 80-100
velvet tartan
i wonder if the leech bonus of that trait would stack if you'd spam ignore pain?
jade tartan
cause otherwise it might screw me on other spenders
velvet tartan
probably not?
strong forum
It doesn't stack the buff itself, only reapplies
velvet tartan
meh ok
strong forum
I'm using IP whenever it drops off tbh
robust urchin
I usually replace it when its about to fall off
Also how are you guys dealing with solo stuff
As in wq and stuff
You able to do the elite wqs?
robust urchin
Yeah beta of course
robust urchin
I feel like prot warrior is the only tank who can't manage em solo
broken kite
sick sentinel
Nanomachines is gud plaier
jade tartan
Guys, when the incoming damage / ability is not blockable, are you relying only on IP ?
or saving Demo Shout for it, p.e.
sick sentinel
Dont forget Shield Wall
jade tartan
yea but we wont be able to SW many times throughout the fight to mitigate said ability
sick sentinel
If it comes to that, then you will likely have to rely on healer's CDs
or try to get as close to 100% HP as possible
robust urchin
Im definitely gonna level up both asap and figure out which one i like more
I'm just sad that i might say goodbye to my good friend
😭
marsh thorn
Why can't i use NF anymore?
amber siren
Artifacts were disabled in the pre-patch
marsh thorn
ty
tender phoenix
any1 have a into the fray tracker weak aura?
rain bridge
There's a snippet for number of targets in range X in the weak aura discord and I think it links to the weak aura doc itself
main vault
^
signal plover
Make sure it displays %s and ur good to go.
tender phoenix
got it to work thank you
robust urchin
if there is one thing i absolutly love about prot right now is that i get 15 seconds CD on demo shout in the world
robust urchin
it still has a base cd of 15 seconds even if it resets with AM
ember arrow
pretty sure i use it in m+ before it expires
junior ivy
i stopped doing my emissary. and even my order hall missions
is there any point to those right now?
amber siren
gold and rep 🤷
gritty wing
good day, i started leveling a protection warrior and i have a noob question: why is shield block better than ignore pain? All the guides i found say it but i don't undstand why and they don't explain it
amber siren
IP as it stands currently is meant to smooth damage as it's a pretty small absorb. Shield block will prevent damage up to a % and can even crit to stop more.
gritty wing
thanks. What if i haven't got my mastery yet, would it still be better?
amber siren
SB will 100% always be better than IP for preventing damage apart from magical damage (which can't be blocked)
gritty wing
thanks 😄
vocal nimbus
Up to a certain number
ember arrow
not for infinite damage
subtle widget
yes
subtle widget
but if you're leveling as prot (for some reason), IP will stretch your health pool further
no reason not to use both, but IP isn't "worse" than SB
vocal nimbus
SB gvies you more EHP than IP
junior igloo
@gritty wing
IP has a cap (it can only prevent so much damage), Shield Block will reduce any amount of damage for the duration.
That makes SB better in hard hitting content (such as raiding or m+).
As for leveling or very low level content, that might not be the case, but if the content isn't very threatening in the first place, you'd still like to SB because it increases the damage of Shield Slam.
subtle widget
given the context of not having mastery yet, it's not true that SB will always be better except vs magic
it's quite literally not
vocal nimbus
Having more HP in the form of an absorb makes you think that you are more durable when you in reality arent
subtle widget
not having mastery yet means sub 78
mobs outside of dungeons don't hit hard enough to burn through IP before it expires
main vault
Mobs outside of dungeons don't require and sort of defensive
junior igloo
They also don't hit hard enough to require any mitigation at all 😃
After all, a dps spec can "tank" them no problem
subtle widget
they do if you pull enough of them shrug
main vault
They still don't but ok
ember arrow
dps specs can tank alot of adds, that means tank specs wont even be scratched
amber siren
I mean, I'm not really going to dispute the math of IP vs SB at low levels but I can't imagine it mattering to the point where you'd swear IP is better than mitigating with block with a 20% damage bonus 🤷
gritty wing
@junior igloo thanks 😄
subtle widget
I'm not saying it's better, and because IP uses a GCD you're better off hitting SB if you're only using one of them
charred void
Hey how is prot feeling for bfa mythic raiding, warr has always been my main but I had to switch off last xpac cause .... you know... they were not very good all xpac
subtle widget
but saying stuff like SB gives more EHP? not always true, especially in the context of leveling
main vault
Then SB isn't always better
ember arrow
@charred void not very good for what? 🤔
main vault
Like you can't just make things up
charred void
Mythic raiding
ember arrow
vocal nimbus
Prot warr was quite decent and strong for almost all of legion
gritty wing
the only thing i can think of from what you tell me is that, if on the content i'm doing IP expires before breaking, then it's better
vocal nimbus
It still will be decent
ember arrow
prot was really good in tos, and EN, only weak point was 2 bosses in NH
antorus was also good for us
vocal nimbus
EN was literally double prot
ember arrow
saying they were weak all xpac is false, factually, and warriors could clear mythic easily
at least come up wit m+, then u got a point
charred void
All tanks could tank mythic
grim prism
IP blocks a larger % of damage than a basic block but you'd really be stretching to imply that IP blocks a larger total amount of damage. SB is more total mitigation per rage spent (assuming blockable damage) and can also be supplemented by IP. Plus crit blocks are a larger % reduction than IP anyway
charred void
I'll taking comparatively
subtle widget
actually, it'd be better (for the rage cost) if it lasted more than 4/3 the duration of shield block, but that's not the point I was making, SB isn't always better, just as IP isn't always worse
main vault
Do you have any math to back it up? Or just guessing
grim prism
Also prot has always been good in m+? Unless you are talking like +30s or some shit in which case it's clearly beyond the scope of the question
grim prism
Block is not literally "better than IP in 100% of circumstances" but its a pretty safe rule of thumb
vocal nimbus
@charred void if you are in the situation of asking which tank will be the top 0.1% for progress then you are off better with mastering anyone and using that
main vault
He is talking about leveling
subtle widget
presenting it as a general rule is fine, but the absolute is incorrect
and again, in the context of leveling... as someone who literally just leveled a warrior, SB is often less effective than IP
main vault
Do you have math to prove it's incorrect?
grim prism
^
main vault
Math is the ONLY thing that matters
main vault
Sooooo, that's a no?
ember arrow
feelycraft
grim prism
Would you still say that blocking mitigates more damage per rage spent than IP in the majority of cases?
subtle widget
IP mitigates a larger pecentage of damage than block, and is effective against all damage
so if IP lasts longer than a shield block, IP is better mathematically
ignoring the GCD usage
ember arrow
if IP last longer than SB, then u take trivial dmg
or if IP lasts for its full duration
grim prism
If your IP expires you probably used it wrong
ember arrow
or that ^
grim prism
Lol
amber siren
tfw a simple leveling questions devolves into this FeelsBadMan
main vault
You also can't ignore the GCD usage
subtle widget
and leveling content is, in it's current state, mobs with trivial damage and huge health pools
main vault
Because of all that factors in
subtle widget
so stretching your health pool is important
subtle widget
sure
main vault
That's literally what EHP is
subtle widget
no shit
grim prism
Dungeons are like 90% blockable melee damage as well
subtle widget
I'm not saying SB isn't good, I'm saying the statement https://i.imgur.com/AhwPqun.png in the context of leveling isn't always true
main vault
Exactly no shit, so don't just talk out of your ass without any logic to it
main vault
Say stupid shit get stupid responses
grim prism
Okay but we've already established that 100% was a slight exaggeration, when really it's more like 98%
Its not like we need to brigade Rybie over it
subtle widget
and I didn't
grim prism
They were still pretty much correct
Even in the context of leveling, a properly-used SB is still going to mitigate more damage-per-rage-spent than a properly-used IP
ember arrow
IP ecists to support SB, not the other way around
grim prism
Youre trying to couch it in terms of mobs that do "trivial damage" in your own words, which by definition makes the premise irrelevant
main vault
And doesn't take a GCD that causes a lost GCD of rage and etc
subtle widget
aaaaand now I remember why I stopped bothering with class discords
ember arrow
lol
grim prism
TLDR block is almost always better and telling new people otherwise is needlessly confusing
main vault
Because they have no problem calling you out when you say stupid shit?
main vault
It reminds me of multiple people since prepatch lol
ember arrow
"people dont agree with me and i have nothing to back up my statements, im done with class discords"
amber siren
You're probably right in that some situations an IP might be more helpful than a SB, but levelling and mitigation is such a small niche that has little if no math in it that getting used to how block works and on top of block, getting a 20% SS increase on top is a good bonus. But we're honestly talking about niches in niches at that point.
main vault
Screw you guys, im going home
amber siren
And it honestly doesn't matter
grim prism
Plus once you factor in block mastery and average out your crit blocks with regular blocks, you arent looking at a 30%-to-50% difference
ember arrow
think he left some time ago
grim prism
Still needed to be said in case anyone else was getting any further bad ideas
fresh idol
😂
gritty wing
ok i'll use SB first D:
vocal nimbus
So theres another niche until level 78
amber siren
Someone math my prot leveling for ultimate efficiency 😡
main vault
The only math that matters for leveling is 60
grim prism
You get block at 20 and IP at 36 so in the context of leveling from 20 to 36, block is better 100% of the time 
grim prism
brb rerolling
astral crystal
☣ discord
main vault
☣
signal plover
Toxic is a rly good Britney Spears music vid imo
astral crystal
is wago not working for anyone else?
the WA section anyway
i keep getting failed to connect
nvm there it goes
signal plover
I'm glad we were with u here to share this journey
grim prism
There's a difference between being toxic and preventing people from spreading misinformation based on their experience as someone who admits to having just finished leveling
signal plover
Agreed
frank mantle
I wish prot warr would be top tier again 😦
main vault
I mean does it really matter?
dusk locust
i'm having a lot of fun with it
frank mantle
I mean they aren’t bad, I just don’t like the feeling of being flat out outclassed when playing.
main vault
You will only feel that way if you don't play well
frank mantle
But I always try to stay away from flavor of the month bs
kind urchin
I'm toxic. But I know it and freely admit my problem. I think I might need help with this.
frank mantle
I’ll have to play my warrior more but at the moment it just seems like there’s not really a scenario where paladin isn’t better than warrior unfortunately. Obviously I hope some tuning with warriors will make them a bit stronger
ember arrow
🤔
grim prism
i always try to stay away from FotM
i wish my spec was FotM
🤔
frank mantle
I wish it wasn’t bottom
grim prism
Is it?
frank mantle
Not necessarily busted op
ember arrow
everytime i look at skyhold
its always something about prot sucks
depresing really
grim prism
DAE prepatch
primal rain
Is Ignore Pain comparable to Demon Spikes?
frank mantle
No
heavy chasm
frank mantle
They do completely different things lol
grim prism
One is an absorb, one is a DR increase
They both ideally make you take less damage but they work in completely different ways
ornate sky
Is Ignore Pain comparable to spend rage for a increase in survivability
primal rain
So i'm putting my shield block keybind with my demon spikes keybind then
grim prism
They are both proactive mitigators for tanks if thats what you mean
primal rain
yeah
undone sun
Both active mitigations
grim prism
Then yeah SB is the closest thing to demon spikes
crystal night
Any ideas on what the best races on horde are for tanking?
ornate sky
HMT but really doesn't matter
undone sun
Marginal differences
crystal night
I'm currently highmountain
grim prism
The ones that you already rolled a tank for
ornate sky
choose based on active and aesthetics
primal rain
Are you a mythic raider?
grim prism
Even if youre a mythic raider it really doesnt matter lol
crystal night
But was ele for M argus
ornate sky
even a mythic raider doesn't need to care about races lol, the only thing that might matter is the use of an active to cheese something
crystal night
But I'll be main tanking in BFA for my guild
grim prism
The hardest part of mythic raiding is having 19 friends
dusk locust
^
crystal night
LOL yeah
ornate sky
The hardest part of life is having 19 friends
dusk locust
can confirm, attendance hardest thing about raiding
frank mantle
I imagine the HMT racial shows a biggest difference for monk tanks but still it’s not gonna matter all that much
crystal night
Does troll racial reduce CD of shield block and all that ?
solid sun
Does m+ key scaling work the same in beta as it does currently on live
kind urchin
Attendance. The real boss of wow that can never seem to kill.
dusk locust
is there a good reference for what % increase to health/damage any given M+ key level brings? all i can find stops at 15
and/or is there a simple math formula to it
main vault
No it exponentially changes
dusk locust
i want to be able to plan for big hitting abilities before i even walk in
undone sun
If it scales the same as legion then I should have one 15-20-25 including tyran on the old SR spreadsheet
¯_(ツ)_/¯ idk though
grim prism
@dusk locust the same abilities that already truck you will just hit harder
crisp slate
How do you skip Battle for Lordaeron scenario on alts? Anybody know?
grim prism
If youre already experienced with up to 15s and progressing through keys, you wont have any suprises
dusk locust
i'd just like to know in advance whether, say, demo shout is "enough" for a dark slash or if i need more (assuming spell reflect isn't up)
granted i can rotate shield wall etc
but you know what i mean
main vault
Well BFA dungeons don't have the same damage patterns
So that logic doesn't really apply
dusk locust
well eventually the key's high enough that it 1-shots you without mitigation right
the tank
main vault
99.999999% of people will never reach it
dusk locust
will never reach the point where not mitigating a hit will kill you?
main vault
Outside of normal mitigiation or an external
Gear swapping is gone
BFA dungeons aren't built with Legion logic
dusk locust
externals are a good example. i want to "know" that i need to call for one. right now it's feelycraft for me
main vault
That's why BE is still a m+ god
ember arrow
alliance as usual ganking low level players
main vault
Only time they win
ornate sky
any rogue who is leveling right now is likely a fotm roller for warmode.. which makes it even worse to quest around them
ornate sky
he likely didn't even get breakfast as a child
ember arrow
every ally player i see in wpvp is a lvl 180 geared guy killing low level quest npcs/players
charred void
to min max (I know it hardly matters) which race is looking strongest for Prot war atm?
cows?
old zephyr
I like my LF draenei for securing aggro at pull, but don't know if that is really optimised
cosmic cargo
if you care about m+ the answer is the same for all specs
BE
for survivability in raid possibly moose
signal plover
Proud of us all that no one has said gnome yet.
signal plover
Fuck gnomes
primal crypt
LMAO
main vault
Pathetic
signal plover
Abomination
cosmic cargo
funny enough they're probably not a bad race for prot
ember arrow
@junior ivy gnone level 110 rogue ganks my level 23 monk
primal crypt
gtfo
main vault
Not even worth race changing, just delete
cosmic cargo
except their on use is strictly worse than goblin's
primal crypt
lol
junior ivy
gnome is best race
primal crypt
just delete ahahaha
signal plover
Levko u gotta git gud
primal crypt
cant be saved anymore
primal crypt
but yeah, as an orc, trying to pop, Avatar, Blood Fury, Sweeping Strikes, before actually attacking,,,zZzZzZ
gotta roll through 10 globals before I can mortal strike LUL
main vault
It's hierloom
junior ivy
it's molten core tier 1
ember arrow
its heirloom
junior ivy
i didnt know
signal plover
Xmog is irrelevant if gnome
junior ivy
i like the set i have on 😦
main vault
There's no manslaining in mog
signal plover
Srsly tho gnomes r gross
ornate sky
blood fury isnt on gcd is it?
and after having leveled alliance and horde recently, there really is no difference ;p
junior ivy
gnomes aren't gross
sick sentinel
cat you need a thunderfury to go with your gnome 😃
grim prism
Gnomefriend, Clicker of Devastate 😂
hollow oxide
Prot warri is tier 1 with bm Monk? Is it True?
undone sun
haHAA
main vault
Who fucking lied to you
main vault
Kick him
hollow oxide
Where we stand right now?
prisma crane
you kids thinking heirloom before Tier 1.... 🤦
main vault
Didn't say it was before
grim prism
You dont need a ranking
main vault
Said it was the model
grim prism
All tanks are viable
main vault
Also, calling people kids
prisma crane
thinking OF heirloom before Tier 1*
main vault
🤦
final mist
Technically, the heirloom model is just the T1 skin
undone sun
which came first the chicken or the egg, in this case T1
prisma crane
info
undone sun
100% the info
final mist
grim prism
Which comes first, picking a tank that is undeniably strongest every tier, or being able to clear heroic
sick sentinel
Man there’s some irritable people in here on a Monday morning. 😂
final mist
Warrior was the first (and only) tank, ergo Warrior is the top choice
prisma crane
^
sick sentinel
Maybe it’s the rank question over and over?
prisma crane
brb, gonna watch Sco, see what he has to say
main vault
Lol
final mist
What, you mean my class choice doesn't matter and I should just play what I like in my World 5k guild?
main vault
And AmShady
junior ivy
glad someone agrees it is T1 not heirloom
final mist
junior ivy
i barely even know what heirlooms are
sick sentinel
prisma crane
i mean it's both, but only both because both are T1
main vault
And OneLegion
grim prism
@final mist that same logic teaches us that prot paladins have literally never been good, as we learned yesterday
From some guy who has never played one*
main vault
Tbf people thought Feral was terrible in Vanilla
Even though they have found out now it could have been top dps
sick sentinel
it was vanilla everything was terrible
final mist
sick sentinel
Aaaaaaaand I’m stealing that @final mist
grim prism
tfw you try to add on to something funny sal says
final mist
grim prism
Sure couldve used a response time like that when I was trying to get feedback on my WA suite, guy
weary notch
Wait, other classes can tank?
main vault
Thyme should know he abandoned y'all for one of them
grim prism
Tank your guild's wowprog page, lololol
undone sun
haHAA
main vault
Even Abrodus is more of a War than you now
undone sun
merry cave
main vault
Haven't logged on live
ember arrow
I did 23
magic turret
@main vault I didn't know feral could innervate... 🤔
That being the sole purpose of Druids and therefore NE during Vanilla.
main vault
Feral? Innervate?
magic turret
In case Paladins wanted to cast upranked spells
astral crystal
the closer we get to BFA the more spicy this channel's going to get
candid vine
Is SB off the GCD? Not at computer atm
main vault
Yes
candid vine
Ty
plain vapor
main vault
So quit playing
dusk locust
only 2 weeks i'm pumped
astral crystal
ye for real krook, wish my guild would've taken the rest the expac off
dusk locust
it has its plusses and minuses, and kinda depends on the nature of relationships in the guild
astral crystal
the good bois so i obviously don't mind in that respect
dusk locust
our guild took a break and i expect most everyone to come back b/c a lot are long-time friends
dusk locust
i used the time to go at my own pace with random achievements and other nonsense. talon's vengeance and what have you
main vault
Yeah I did some mount farming and etc
strong forum
im just farming tmog here and there
main vault
Eventually just decided to recharge
strong forum
mostly invasions
main vault
If I don't stop for a few weeks I won't wanna go hard
dusk locust
taking a break is smart then
main vault
And I have 48 hours to level 3 toons
dusk locust
i'm gonna attempt reading quest text this time. i expect it to last about 30 mins
strong forum
even if you go slow you will have 18hrs left over
strong forum
BRUV AUTOTURNIN OR NOTHING
sick sentinel
Hey guys, just returned after some time off the game - I hear prot is shit now, is that true? Or just MMO-Champ people crying again
dusk locust
not true at all
strong forum
crying mostly
strong forum
prot just takes more skill and knowledge now
and people dont understand that
IN MY OPINION NEXII
before you come again with tanking is easy 😄
main vault
It can take more skill and still be easy as a role lol
strong forum
i guess
magic turret
@strong forum That reminds me of the live stream where the Bliz said that tanks were using DPS trinkets because the tank trinkets were too complex for most players to understand.
stark sage
tanking is easy, but prot is pretty heavily punished for mis managing your AMs
main vault
^
main vault
No it isnt
strong forum
and here we go again
dusk locust
that's my own experience anyway
stark sage
the reason dps feels more forgiving is because you have 13 other people to pick up your slack
main vault
DPS is tons more competitive
magic turret
^
strong forum
and less people blame you as dps
magic turret
WTF kind of guild are you in?
strong forum
as tank you have a much higher responsibility
main vault
It's alot harder to be a 75% DPS than a comparable skill level tank
dusk locust
definitely more competitive, and you're right you have others to pick up your slack. tanking though if you mess up everyone knows
strong forum
if you ask me, none
stark sage
well a single dps fuckup is less likely to wipe the group than a single tank fuck up
dusk locust
you have a spotlight on you
strong forum
exactly
main vault
It's alot harder to mess up
stuck oxide
You can make a mistake as a dps... it wont matter as much as a tank mistake. I do not agree with it behing more ez
stark sage
yeah there is less stuff to worry about as a tank compared to a dps in a mechanics heavy fight
dusk locust
dps you mess up and now you're doing 10% less dps or whatever. tank you mess up and you die, or someone else dies
stark sage
it really depends on what kind of mistake we are talking
main vault
Doing 10% less dps is really impactful
uneven mason
Or your OOM the healers
main vault
Again
stark sage
a dps could screw up a boss mechanic and cause a wipe. see star augur
main vault
DPS is alot harder to maximize
strong forum
someone dying or wiping is more impactful than fucking up a dps rotation shrug:
uneven mason
I mean 10% overall raid DPS is a big deal, 10% a single DPS is not going to, generally make or break a fight
magic turret
If your bad as a DPS, you show up with a giant neon sign in the meters that says "f--- this guy"
dusk locust
dps is harder to maximize i agree. bad tank is going to hold you back way more than a bad dps
main vault
I didn't say bad
You don't just roles by the bottom
You judge them by the top
And being a top dps is alot harder than a top tank
uneven mason
This is true, a lot of circles 75% DPS Is considered "bad" because you're the average above average
magic turret
I dunno, I've found that generally, tanking has generally grown easier and easier over the life of WoW
stark sage
eh i think it is easier to parse high as a tank than a dps, the parse culter for tanks is less competitive
strong forum
deciding if a role is easy or hard... you judge it by the very base of players, not the top WTF
dusk locust
if it was braindead easy tanks wouldn't die
uneven mason
This is true, its also true that with BFA they've set tank design back about to WOTLK levels
main vault
If you don't think it's braindead easy there is an issue
Even Argus/Maiden was a joke after a few pulls for a tank
And KI
strong forum
for a top players its braindead easy, not for a bottom one 🤦
stuck oxide
People who only look at dmg meter are bad player. There is a huge difference between a good player who value the importance of doing mechanic properly wich will result in a dps loss but will get you to the common goal of the group wich is kill the boss.
uneven mason
Nomeratur its literally impossible to complte content as the base of players though, you're not going to see an entire raid of grey/green parses that are clearing content
magic turret
Tank design, to me, really seems to have drifted substantially more towards a quasi DPS role.
strong forum
exactly ikari
stark sage
@uneven mason you'd be surprised
main vault
Or you could just do mechanics and the top dps
stark sage
ive seen some groups
main vault
Like good players do
uneven mason
very few though
Possibely a whole green group
a whole grey group?
I don't think you can clear some of the berserk timers
main vault
You cant
strong forum
if you look at a bad player, the bad player will perform better at playing dps than tank. thats how i look at it, especially awareness wise
stuck oxide
It depends on what you mean by top dps
uneven mason
I think overall it comes down to
strong forum
THATS THE THING THOUGH
main vault
Skillcaps are the only thing that matters
strong forum
that literally defines if a role is easy nexii
uneven mason
right, healers OOM, resources run out, hitting berserk timers
magic turret
@strong forum That's totally irrelevant. If we're talking about bads, they're be terrible no matter what.
main vault
No it doesnt
uneven mason
Skill floors != Skill caps
magic turret
It's like going to ABT and trying to bring someone parsing EN levels.
strong forum
i feel like we are talking completely past each other
magic turret
It's makes it damn hard.
uneven mason
that happens a lot with Nexii
I think it has something todo with being a VDH main
that whole no eyes thing
uneven mason
You're
ember arrow
now THIS is podracing
uneven mason
So to finish my statement
main vault
Blizzard has made specifically sure tanking isn't the hardest role
stuck oxide
First of all, be respectful
main vault
To get more people into it
magic turret
^
uneven mason
IF a tank is bad, in general, you will have a rather swift reaction, repercussion wise a bad tank will wipe you faster
dusk locust
maybe it's because i played melee dps for so long. it's really apparent when the tank i'm with is less than stellar
magic turret
@uneven mason depends on what you are defining as "bad"
uneven mason
since its impact is concentraited into a single role with 2 parts, DPS impact is divided up among ~ 6+ other individuals
magic turret
Can execute mechanics correctly? Then yes, I'd rather have that than a bad DPS.
uneven mason
In general, I mean, a tank that is a burden on their healers is going to be bad, but the fight can be completed in theory
main vault
Logic literally makes 0 sense
magic turret
That's like ancient tanking theory
You do realize healing output was incredibly high and tanks avoided defensive gearing to increase DPS
because basically no matter what you did, you weren't a burden to the healers
strong forum
unless you are a LFR warri that didnt know IP existed
uneven mason
BFA was a large step back
uneven mason
Yeah...
main vault
You can be proud of tanking all you want, but thinking it's not the easiest role is completely ignorant to the state of the game
magic turret
It's been trending that way for a long time.
stuck oxide
Dps is easy too... what is complicated in doing a rotation ? Tank has a rotation too. It affect their surv and dmg also. Same thing
uneven mason
Tanking was the easiest role for sure
magic turret
Mechanics for DPS are generally speaking, more difficult
main vault
In BFA it'll be different
strong forum
i think playing DPS is easier to perform well, just do your thing
uneven mason
now that they've reduced our self sustain timing and planning our CD use is of paramount
main vault
But until then
strong forum
and that opinion wont change
uneven mason
the difference between a good tank and a bad tank is going to be excruciatingly obvious now
magic turret
We can hope.
main vault
If your idea of well is lower sure
strong forum
well doesnt incorporate being a god, but not sucking
main vault
When ever other DPS is shitting on yours and you are hitting 70% that's not well
uneven mason
0_o
magic turret
If you are on progression, a faltering DPS is a major liability.
magic turret
I mean...
#TankDPSMatters
strong forum
you can blindly spam as dps and do more than a blind tank
strong forum
everything but bear and monk*
main vault
you can't but ok
strong forum
well in dungeons, could be 😄
magic turret
Vengeance in Cata?
stuck oxide
With the tclap azerite trait
magic turret
Pre-nerf?
ember arrow
if u think tanking is so easy, and u are epic gamer that dont need to easy game, then dont play tanks
ember arrow
i agree if u slightly overgear the content it becomes trivial
stuck oxide
You think wow is hard ?
ember arrow
fuzza is the dark souls of wow players
main vault
So you think guilds take hundreds of wipes because tanks have to figure out mechanics?
dusk locust
i dunno i find pushing keys on a tank pretty engaging haha
strong forum
but like i said, its easier to perform on an "ok" level as dps than a tank... sigh
uneven mason
Nexii I think everyone has to figure out mechanics
signal plover
I mean this is all opinions/ego lol
main vault
That statement is just untrue though
uneven mason
0_o
strong forum
how though
magic turret
Dungeon tanking has gotten way, way easier overtime. That's not an opinion. That's fact.
stuck oxide
The group as to coordinate to kill a boss... that is the only hard thing
signal plover
Yawn
main vault
And tanks take what, 20-25 pulls on an end boss to get mechanics down
strong forum
he meant my statement ikari
main vault
Then 400 more waiting on healers and dps
strong forum
LUL im just set in my opinion thats all
magic turret
Tank mechanics are, generally, much more simple.
strong forum
its way harder to coordinate >15 people than 2 tanks
uneven mason
So, tank mechanics are set up, by process of elimination to be highly predictable Nexii
stuck oxide
Owned nexii
uneven mason
only 2 tanks
you know whos gonna get what
DPS you got a much larger pool to be affected
ember arrow
14 dps fucking up has higher chance someone will fuck up, than one of the 2 tanks
uneven mason
"WHOS GONNA BE SETUP THE BOMB"
strong forum
im not talking about mechanix
uneven mason
Its somewhat random, harder to prepare, reflexively to deal with it
stuck oxide
Dps does
strong forum
i was talking about output
stuck oxide
Dbm timer
ember arrow
ye as a dps, u just think of mechancis on the fly
stuck oxide
Weak aura
ember arrow
u use cds on random timers
stuck oxide
Wake up
main vault
Yes they do
main vault
Are you stupid on purpose?
ember arrow
/whooosh
stuck oxide
You know when mechanic will happen every role does know that
strong forum
why do you always drag it to the top level, im talking about the very base nobodys talking about raid mechanix
main vault
The very base does not matter
strong forum
it does in judging if a role is easier or not
main vault
No it doesn't
strong forum
🤦
uneven mason
Nexii do you always argue by throwing insults as soon as someone provides sufficient counter points to undermine the basis of your highly opinionated stance on a subject?
main vault
Having more DPS isn't a sufficient
stuck oxide
What is your guild nexii
main vault
And that's why I'ma done with ignorance
Supposedly im just a DH main that knows nothing
ember arrow
yikes putting words in our mouths
main vault
No he literally said thst
ember arrow
he said oure vdh main, not that u dont know nothing
strong forum
i do respect you since i think you are a experienced tank but i cannot accept your arguments in this regard
main vault
We have argued all the time
uneven mason
Yeah I joke about VDH main cause he got triggered for like 3 hours about me saying VDH were as easy to play as a Guardian druid....
stuck oxide
Top 100 us guild or gtfo
strong forum
well thats just rude
main vault
I wish you could block on Discord
ember arrow
if its so easy then i need to see the 6.6k score
strong forum
dont talk in this channel unless you did high keys ( 7+ )
magic turret
M+ tanking is a lot different than raid tanking and tanking actually gets substantially harder at high end keys.
stuck oxide
LOL
main vault
Since kiting is hard?
magic turret
It can be sometimes.
stuck oxide
Oh my god... tank control the pace of the m+
main vault
M+ tanking reaches a point where you just kite
magic turret
But, I'm not arguing it's hard. I'm arguing it becomes harder.
stuck oxide
It is the most important role of m+
dusk locust
kiting is a bit less of a thing with the threat nerf too
stuck oxide
Tank is the hardest role of m+
strong forum
well i think healer is now
dusk locust
i'd put healer up there with tank for sure
main vault
And it was in Legion
dusk locust
dps easiest though
strong forum
yea
main vault
Kiting is also bigger in BFA
Not less
But I've only done up to 12/13ish on my tanks
magic turret
Yea 😦 It's a sad thing. Terrible design.
strong forum
in beta* dont forget to mention that
main vault
In beta
stuck oxide
As a dps on m+ you can be clueless of the pathing, wich pack of mobs you pull, wich direction you go. You just have to follow the tank who has all this knowledge.
dusk locust
that right there was the biggest change when i started tanking
strong forum
yea, ask dps about dungeon mechanix, mostly only the tank knows em
dusk locust
i was so used to just blindly stabbing whatever the tank picked up
main vault
Anyone who seriously does m+ knows all the mechanics though
strong forum
everything is hard at top levels.
main vault
Sure random 15s won't know, but an organized group will
ember arrow
u cant follow tank and do high keys
strong forum
thats like saying 2.4k pvp rating is EZ, for the top players 2.4k is piss easy, but not for the majority of players, its all subjectively
magic turret
I think the roles start becoming pretty equally important with maybe an edge to healers on higher end keys.
strong forum
we'll see when we get to high keys in bfa but yes
dusk locust
i tell you what though i miss my intercept stun, and the multi-taunt after hitting berserker
main vault
Interrupt stun is pretty big to lose
strong forum
i regret not knowing that you can charge your allies and still get the stun in melee....
dusk locust
i used that constantly
strong forum
i wish i'd have known
dusk locust
now i'll get in a dungeon, see some spell going off, and have nothing i can do
haha
used to be i'd cover everything
stuck oxide
Nooberatur 😂
magic turret
PvP lost its luster on warrior for me after losing the original Bloodthirst moment of silence
strong forum
well if nobody tells me how can i know about it 🤷
i knew it was top tier, but didnt know why
never bothered trying it out
eager cairn
Who here is leveling in BFA as prot?
dusk locust
i probably will be
stuck oxide
Me. I will level with a 5 man group
grim prism
I will be
signal plover
Prolly gonna do fury tbh
strong forum
im a lone leveler ... rip me
will level as arms / prot depending on specific encounter
stuck oxide
morale killer / sword n board / shield bash pvp talent
signal plover
Ive usually leveled as prot but in a pair I think fury will be bettah
Leap Shoulders and aggs
grim prism
Sure as hell wont do it as DPS; why bother when you can just stack a whole quest worth of mobs and kill them with a couple TCs
signal plover
U can stack mobs as dps lol
main vault
I also level in a group of 5
I pull a questworth, they kill
Speed is only stat that matters
strong forum
wish i could do that
grim prism
Maybe you guys pay more attention than i do while leveling
strong forum
but loneboy will be lone
main vault
Ouch lol
stuck oxide
Ill use leapshoulder and aggs probably
grim prism
I am what you call a minimal-effort player
main vault
We had group signups and everything
signal plover
I can't imagine doing a group bigger than 2...maybe 3
sick sentinel
@magic turret heard you are just bad in pvp
strong forum
and then go and find people willing to play for 20h+ straight... GL
grim prism
What will happen is i'll start tanking quests for a group of four friends, keep pace with them for three levels, then I'll go to work and they will have taken the whole week off, and I'll come back and finish leveling as fury by myself
strong forum
pvp will gain interest from me again though, no templates FeelsGoodMan destroying plebs again
grim prism
God damn I will not miss templates
strong forum
nobody will
grim prism
What an abysmal idea
signal plover
Templates are full on goners right?
grim prism
Although i guess any ideas for PvP are good ideas when youre looking in context of "the expac after Ashran"
strong forum
in bgs you can finally judge someone on their gear again, currently if he has below 30k hp hes low gear and will just die
FeelsGoodMan
desytroing 19k hp peeps
aaah the bliss
fair flint
Anyone else get destroyed in world PvP as prot? Had a rogue 3 shot me through my shield wall and last stand
upper spoke
I waited awhile to ask this, but before 7.3.5 & 8.0, my prot warrior w/ 4p t21, healing bracers etc. basically tanked heroic antorus without heals
can anyone do this post 7.3.5 and 8.0?
eternal roost
probably
upper spoke
I mean heroic dogs, council, kin, ... single target stuff that just generated so much rage that I didn't need outside heals
eternal roost
youd just have to have good enough gear
upper spoke
what gear?
eternal roost
how many healers?
upper spoke
what do u mean
upper spoke
i mean i didnt care who healed
eternal roost
basiaclly.
that means theres more to it
how many healers were with you, and how many people inside the raid?
upper spoke
75% + of my heals were self heals, and as long as a warm body playing healing spec was there i could survive
eh im rambling. nvm
eternal roost
ok then
wanted to figure out how likely survival is in 8.0
it also depends on the other tank a lot
youre dead alone
upper spoke
true
grim prism
@fair flint i think that might be a rogue problem and not a war problem
If it was just a one-off thing then I wouldnt worry about it
fair flint
Yeah maybe
charred void
so are we changing the name of this discord now that legion is over?
astral crystal
Benchhold has a pretty nice ring to it
plain ice
Skyhold (is falling) Discord
vocal nimbus
skyhold is still the warriors class hall
if you level through legion you can go there
so its still valid i guess
astral crystal
noice
signal plover
U mean the warrior class logo isn't unique enough?
Can the cute doggo I posted last week be new logo plz?
grim prism
Memehold is forever
fresh dragon
i have a problem
we are in Upper Kara
on 3rd boss
we are spike lagging since 3 min. boss @ 30%
chat works but we are unable to cast
grim prism
Nope, just at my office having irl lag spikes waiting for the clock to hit 5:30
Chat works but unable to cast
Also permadazed
spring grail
i'm so scared prot warriors are gonna be terribad in BfA i'm about to main a DK instead 😦
spring grail
all the videos i've watched rates prot warriors near the back of the line in terms of pretty much eveything
sacred edge
I dont think that will be the case
plain ice
that's because they haven't seen me play prot yet
sacred edge
the line between tanks was very slim to, all where good in there own ways.
spring grail
just seems from what i've seen is prot warrior is super relient upon a good healer
whereas the other tanks seem to have a lot more self-surviability
strong forum
Not much more than any other tank
All tanks are very close to each other in terms of strength much more balanced
sacred edge
lets just put it this way, Play what you want to play! Not what people think is the best, There is no tank that sucks so bad they cant tank the content. Unless they suck as a player 😃
strong forum
Warr is on the lower end yes, but by no means much worse
And so far I haven't seen a rating of a tank by a proper player
In warris regards
grim prism
If by "survivability" you mean the ability to reactively heal damage after you already take it then yeah go DK
spring grail
watched a video from Method's Sco saying warrior was on the lower-end because of the ignore pain GCD as one of the main reasons
main vault
If you are worried about that it doesn't matter
spring grail
I love warrior, and I like tanking. but I also like being relevant and a hot commodity.
main vault
You'll be fine
spring grail
if that makes sense
sacred edge
i mean, that is surely going to see a nerf sooner or later as well. Once there is a " Loop Hole " or a " OP " of a certain class or spec it will get toned down, till the next thing comes up its a endless cycle.
strong forum
And we are a proactive tank, not a self healing tank
sacred edge
Besides, unless your in a top 10 raiding guild, it dont matter lol they all have every tank, geared and ready to swap if this is the case.
strong forum
We take less damage than others
To put it simply
If you wish to push beyond 15s,other tanks will be stronger the higher you get yes
But until high keys you will be fine regardless
spring grail
ugh I don't like hearing that xD
main vault
What's the highest you did in legion?
strong forum
The discrepancy is not giga
spring grail
I skipped legion >.>
strong forum
Well what's your worries then
sacred edge
what are the 2 best lego's right now for Prot? Still Gloves & Belt?
strong forum
Belt and w/e
spring grail
i'm a dad with 2 kids and limited time, and i worry that invested time will go towards something I enjoy but where people won't want me because of my class rather have a DK tank for <insert Mythic dungeon+ here>
gleaming blaze
@signal plover Important question, where's this cute doggo you mentioned?
main vault
You'd rather play something you don't like and quit sooner?
spring grail
I have fun being able to fit easily into groups and my friends having a good time.
I'm in it for the lore >.>
strong forum
If friends don't want you to play prot, they are not friends
On a casual level will be more than enough
So wtf are you worried about
:D
main vault
You can play whatever you want if that's your playstyle
It won't make a difference
Like not to be offensive, but you sound pretty casual
spring grail
no you are right I am pretty casual. but the most challenge i've seen that I would like to get into is pushing mythic+ keys
sacred edge
honestly you wanna push Mythic+ key with friends
spring grail
and thx for the wakeup call i'm just used to slow balancing from back i the day
sacred edge
its difficult to do in a pug
main vault
Yeah Yu can play whatever. Even in legion it only mattered above 25 or so
strong forum
and thats fairly high, specially for a casual
gleaming blaze
The gap in tanking power is still minimal. You are looking at like a 1 - 2% difference is Tanking Ability
magic turret
I don't know if I'd buy that.
For raiding, I'd give monks a substantially higher edge than 1-2%.
main vault
Not talking about raids
gleaming blaze
Correct use of abilities, encounter knowledge and experience will still be a hell of a lot more important than what Tank you are playing.
magic turret
Stagger says "hello"
spring grail
I would agree senrith.
magic turret
Although, BFA raid mechanics possible be designed around Stagger's inherent OPness
gleaming blaze
Well i've leveled a Monk just in case anyway, just in case they are as favoured as people say but I don't think it's nessessary to have multiple tanks
magic turret
No, it's not. For M+ though, I'd say Monk is still more than 1-2% better.
RoP is worth more than 1-2% by itself
magic turret
a 1-2% edge
main vault
And that isn't BrM specific
magic turret
It's one of the absolute best kiting tools in the game.
final mist
People (good people) are doing 10s/11s and having trouble in them - Warriors don't need to kite.
chrome raft
Just pick the best tank if you want to compete in m+ imo. We are at a reset point in the game, so why handicap urself
final mist
Monks have trouble because Stagger is OP as fuck for large hits, and much weaker for smaller ones. Warriors don't have that issue. Plus, we have many more cooldowns, much more damage, and about the same amount of utility as BRM does.
magic turret
That's absolutely not how stagger works at all.
Stagger linearizes damage. Period. That's all it does.
main vault
No
magic turret
Yes.
magic turret
It's not weaker. Weaker damage is just irrelevant.