honestly
#protection
somber dragon
granted, i haven't looked at my rogue at all... but the idea of not having something besides dps as an option isn't appealing to me
west vigil
or stupid, uninteresting flat stat increase talents
somber dragon
i miss how the old trees worked conceptually in terms of hybridizing
spice saddle
^ yeah
waxen cradle
I laugh every time I look at the Prot PvP talents and think of Blizzards solution of PvP talents for Prot Warriors... which was remove it and add it back as a PvP talent lol
somber dragon
but i don't miss them for being stupid cookie-cutter shit that they ended up being
spice saddle
well that was elitistjerks lol, in the pre discord days
spice saddle
0/29/32 and stuff were some OP specs
somber dragon
is noxxic still fucking shit up? π
waxen cradle
Some of them would add back utility to us which I find sad
spice saddle
yeah when i came back into wow was like WTF what happened to EJ
somber dragon
i think all the tanks got used to bringing all the utility and just carrying the dps through shit drooling
spice saddle
yeah wotlk heroics were like that
somber dragon
bfa is attempting to make all the other dumbfucks in my m+ keys (besides me) have something other than "dps" to do.
spice saddle
remember when my prot war would just carry groups in wotlk
somber dragon
i'll assume my healers aren't dumbfucks if they can keep me alive π
waxen cradle
I wonder if when they were setting around trying to think up what to take away from Prot Warriors... if there answer was well take away there utility because other tanks have that, and take away self recovery because other tanks have that.
somber dragon
ya'll gettin too emo for this place
π
everyone is worse off overall going into bfa
waxen cradle
True
spice saddle
keep saying prot warrior needs like a rage bar version of stagger
like trynd from LOL
waxen cradle
Yeah because we all know how good they are at balance
spice saddle
like a toggle on and off ability that will prevent damage by taking it from the rage bar
waxen cradle
ALL we need is to give them something else to not balance
somber dragon
again, outside of the top 1-5% of guilds out there, the balance is "good enough" to allow anyone to "play what they want"
i know i'm not in that top eschelon, and i'm not sure how many of ya'll are legitimately gonna be pushing that, but if yer not, chill, have a drink/smoke, and just enjoy the bloodshed π
we sorta have that in IP already π
spice saddle
yeah but gcd bound etc. Just feels meh
waxen cradle
True the issue comes in what you "want" to play and what you "need" to play to do certain types of content because as Blizzard is building it, and well as they always have certain classes excel in certain area's and do not in others which is also why we do not all play the same thing.
somber dragon
ip scaling might need a bit of a tweak is the only "semi-major" thing that "might" need looking at if they add back in constant chunking magic damage.
spice saddle
i wana charge mob to mob and just have fun while that works like a passive
multiple "activate this for mitigation" gets old
somber dragon
i don't need to push the highest keys on a regular basis, nor do i need to secure a spot in a world first raiding guild in any role, i don't have time for the "outside prep" that goes into that
spice saddle
i mean monk gets a passive mitigation so it's not gamebreaking.
warrior getting one could be fun
somber dragon
we get passive mitigation in str->armor
so on-use things like the horn of valor are actually kinda useful to us
waxen cradle
The way Blizzard see's things if is all classes of tanks excelled at the same thing then it would not matter what tank you played. That is mainly why you see BDK/VDH being top dogs of MDI and high M+ key pushing. If they also rule the roost so to speak as the kings of raiding then that becomes a bit of a issue because then they simply excel and and over shadow other tanks in 2 forms of content.
spice saddle
take damage, drains your rage and reduces damage by x per y rage drained
then a talent to buff it a bit maybe x by y1.1 and always leave you at least 10 rage etc
somber dragon
the way i see it is that prot warriors and prot palis are the "ok at m+/raids" monks and druid are going to push raids because of the massive damage they can take without dying, and bdk/vdh are gonna be m+ for now
and i'm ok being "ok" at both, because the level of content i'll be pushing doesn't require me to be the FOTM for that niche (:
spice saddle
yeah tbh unless your going for world first it doesn't matter
somber dragon
sotr isn't damage reduction anymore, it is bonus armor, so it's not going to be as powerful
subtle widget
tbh tank rankings are always wrong
somber dragon
and their self-heal has been gutted
trail jungle
Did they make any changes to the dungeon scaling again? Feels easier now
somber dragon
tank and healer rankings are usually shit
because there's so much more than just "numbers" when it comes to those roles
subtle widget
they said brew was going to be garbage for legion because they lost guard, then said paladin was going to be insane for nighthold because of their damage and magic mitigation, then blood dk was kind of tomb because their health pool and sustain were finally good enough... etc etc
somber dragon
i'd rather have a squishier tank (that doesn't oom the healers) but that can "do the dance" right without massive amounts of hand-holding
subtle widget
it's always just speculative garbage to drive views
somber dragon
speculation, and top-tier guilds being taken for gospel is such a wonderful recipie for the mouth-breathing masses π
spice saddle
only reason i might make a pally is their t100 talents that 3% dmg reduce per mob
subtle widget
even the dk/dh tanks staying on top for m+ is questionable, mass grips have tiny range now
somber dragon
the tooltip doesn't show it
spice saddle
just seems like you can pull entire dungeons later on for mass m+ farming in low/med keys
waxen cradle
Well "popular" streamers opinions are why I discuss things here and do not not hurr durr drool over streamers and there self proclaimed rankings
somber dragon
but it declines heavily after 9% i think
subtle widget
sure, some tanks are better than others, but as someone in a top 50 US guild who cleared antorus with a DH co-tank, I can comfortably say that people are talking out of their asses
somber dragon
it's not "capped" like our haste one is at a hard number
but you aren't going to have 15% with just 5 on you
subtle widget
tanks were close enough for all of legion that it really didn't matter, and fell more on utility (e.g. bear roar) and player skill
spice saddle
yeah but with their block, you can just B line for the boss pull eveything and aoe. And speed run the low keys for AZ farm/titanforges
subtle widget
BFA has some pretty sweeping changes to both tanks and encounter design
somber dragon
i don't think that will be the case unless you are several keys below what you should even consider a minimum for decently useful gear
subtle widget
and most of the lists aren't taking those encounter design changes into account
somber dragon
grass is always greener until i get drunk and piss on their lawn π
spice saddle
eh between pushing 27 keys or farming 15's in 10 mins a run i'd rather farm 15's
main vault
Lol
somber dragon
yes, i have a strong suspicion from the rabble around the internet, that most of these lists are basing ranking on current content
spice saddle
my irl friends and gf are kinda "heroic at max" lvl raiders so it lets me carry them ez
somber dragon
but yer in a progression oriented environment no?
main vault
Yeah
waxen cradle
HEY HEY HEY do NOT knock the guy who gets drunk and pisses on the lawn... I have had some damn fine pisses while pisses on other people's lawns
subtle widget
heh, my guild let me swap from monk to prot warrior for bfa
somber dragon
all my best pisses are on someone else's lawn
main vault
mine doesn't care shout farm
But prog i want a smoother tank since cotank is dk
No it isnt
spice saddle
especially learning fights roar is much better
subtle widget
monk is too boring to me without any changes at all, didn't want to do that for another 2 years
somber dragon
bear is sturdier, but monk played right is always gonna be the smoothest
that's their "thing"
main vault
I've either mained or alted one since MoP so I don't mind
subtle widget
only noticeable difference is the loss of swift as a coursing river
rotation is the same, talent choices are largely unchanged
main vault
When we split tanks I ended up with Bear/Monk/War
But we also have 2 accounts each if we need to give the other a tank for whatever reason
spice saddle
does wow have an orange monk jump suit? because if we can goku it that changes things.
somber dragon
warr and bdk are the tanks that interest me, but dk dps/pvp are not looking fun to me at all, so it was a pretty easy choice, i'm still kinda contemplating my monk a bit, but i've never really really liked that playstyle at all
somber dragon
i will too probably, but i really don't want to spend the kinda time in wow that i used to π
spice saddle
oh damn looks like block was put on the "card deck" system too in the last change
main vault
So he got the spikey tanks I got the smoother tanks
somber dragon
card deck?
somber dragon
ty
spice saddle
basically say you have 35% block
if 2 hits arent blocked the 3rd hit on you would be blocked.
main vault
Not really
It's more like, say you have twenty cards, 7 are a block and 13 arent. You draw a card and get the result til all 20 are drawn
Then you shuffle and do it again
spice saddle
ah yeah forgot it's generally a 20 card system
but you can WA it... so it's not as spiky as you'd think
main vault
Yeah they work mostly in 5s
lament sky
Anyone got a tasty Weakaura for prot ?
ionic fern
That's a broad question don't you think?
amber siren
But it has to be tasty
forest fern
https://wago.io/HyKjHkAmm i used this guys, and just moved some things around a bit, bout as simple as it gets. Also makes it decently clear with bolster/last stand usage to not waste SB charges during it
i do recommend though using the pinned WA for ignore pain instead though since it gives a recommended usage indicator based on current "enhancing" stats
summer terrace
So uh kind of a dumb question but where does prot stand in bfa in terms of viability?
main vault
Just fine
summer terrace
That's good to hear
amber siren
π
waxen cradle
Well that's umm very reassuring... any other abilities that are not generating threat we should be aware of Blizz
undone sun
does it at least do damage to bosses now...
broken kite
ask the one guy using the ability
undone sun
lol
waxen cradle
Now now we can't go and have it become OP, dealing damage to bosses, generating 10 rage and generating threat might be OP
As it doing both would be too much... threat from damage and generating threat by itself
OpieOP
strong forum
Wait. Dragon roar doesn't generate threat? Or just basic threat
main vault
It does now!
amber siren
I'm assuming it was just the tank multiplier? But yeah it does now
compact mirage
Wrote myself a new addon to show buffs directly on the action buttons. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/354719097092702221/472087796744454144/WoWScrnShot_072618_190806.jpg
amber siren
People learning to do things and help themselves? I'm suspicious
undone sun
too bad i have action bars hidden in combat Β―_(γ)_/Β―
amber siren
Thyme's elitism showing again PepeHands
compact mirage
btw what procs/auras would you display that have no direct connection to an action button?
amber siren
The only thing I can think of is the safeguard buff from intervening but idk how important that information is for you
talent*
ornate sky
similar to AdiBuffButtons zork right?
compact mirage
Yes
sick sentinel
@undone sun hang on now, action bars hidden in combat. Why.
cosmic cargo
less clutter?
sick sentinel
I guess.
compact mirage
@undone sun Your WA has a GCD timer then?
hidden kindle
WAs can have GCD timers with no custom code nowadays
compact mirage
I do it the other way around. The main bar is only visible on vehicle, combat or modifier. The main bar like a WA setup to me.
undone sun
yeah, i do
civic holly
undone sun
blizzard thinks we should have a choice on what we press, the gcd additions somewhat adds that choice. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
timid jay
Tbf, it does produce a choice. Its just a shitty choice
undone sun
indeed
mighty sparrow
is there an agreed on rankings for tanks in general?
undone sun
defensively, no
mighty sparrow
offensively?
timid jay
Check warcraft logs
undone sun
wait, like general viability rankings, or warcraftlogs-esque
timid jay
Should give you something at least, though azerite traits and loss of legendaries will shift that
mighty sparrow
Does logs have sims for 110 already?
kind urchin
Yeah there were logs up on patch day.
undone sun
Wcl doesn't provide the sims, we had working sims for legion variation of warrior, but nothing for the bfa variation
solid sun
I'm still struggling with threat during my opener. Too much time passes before a TC. Are y'all TCing immediately or following the guide? Having dps wait a click? Have you noticed they need to focus what you're focusing?
solid sun
Would you suggest DS and Avatar together after the initial TC
Or weave them into a dps ability
timid jay
The way I do it is usually TC > SS > avatar > TC > DS > TC
Throw in a Ip and SB as needed
But thats how I've been opening on AoE at least
Alternating with TC and another ability during avatar if I can, since the damage of TC is so huge
kind urchin
If Avatar is up I pre pop it right before I charge in then Thunderclap. If I get a revenge proc I use it but if not I start rolling other things in like DS.
kind urchin
If it's not up I just charge in and Thunderclap.
solid sun
Is it okay to revenge without a proc to help with aoe threat
kind urchin
If you have spare rage and you're not at risk of dying or getting severely spiked yeah.
signal plover
I mentioned this yesterday for a similar question but try to make sure that you're beating your dps to the pull. If u can get that initial TC in before they open you should be good using avatar after dat.
robust urchin
i usually avatar mid charge
solid sun
Do you think dps has had to alter their play at all
signal plover
Not rly
timid jay
To some extent sure, depends on how much up front burst they have
olive granite
is prot 4piece still trash?
timid jay
its stupidly strong in prepatch
robust urchin
I would like for hunters and rogues to use tricks and misdirect but they never do you just have to make sure you get the threat
Only ever rely on yourself cant trust random people
timid jay
obviously you cant count on it, but it does help if people hold off for 1-2 seconds at least
Since our offensive cooldowns trigger GCD now
signal plover
dps prolly will not adjust their playstyle unless there's an obvious reason you can point out to them (namely skittish affix)
*in a pug
robust urchin
its definetly not gonna be a problem for guild runs or groups who play regulary
and honestly thats where the real content is so im not worried about doing random dungeons or heroics
solid sun
Was looking for things I could fairly suggest to my dps buds
robust urchin
Focus your main target
And dont burst before a TC
it really gets on my nerves when dps pulls before i could charge in
Thats the only thing i can really complain about right now
oh and obviously the game is ruined etc etc gcd is trash etc etc i will quit etc etc
old zephyr
LF draenei is Where the awesome pull is at
finite cairn
My guild is learning to βwait for sundersβ slowly, every time I have to kite my dog over to its spot at the beginning someone gets trigger happy and gets ram jammed lol
signal plover
I'ma miss Warlords challenge movement speed buff more than I thought I would
tight tree
I love this on monk, when taunted stuff RUN to you, dropping shit
uneven mason
Tyler, just remind your rogues/hunters that they have Tricks/Misdirect
no more threat problems
compact mirage
good ol times lol
uneven mason
I convinced my rogues that they can burst as hard as they want as long as one of the tanks has Tricks
cause our subt was running like 6k
Yanked Aggramar off of us on pull RIP the WW monk standing next to him
What I get for letting the paladin take it first tho
cosmic cargo
how are people losing aggro on ST wtf
specially a paladin
avenger's, judge, judge and SoTR in the meantime
you're good
uneven mason
Cause some DPS burst like crazy
waxen steppe
Monk in my guild told me that he can currently do over 110k damage with Touch of Karma >.>
Didn't lose aggro to him on Aggra/Argus, but still, mental damage.
modern brook
On the opener do you do charge -> shield slam -> sheild block or Charge -> demoralizing -> IP or does it depend on the pull?
re: M+
signal plover
IP shouldnt be that high on priority until u establish threat imo
vocal nimbus
shield block in m+
waxen steppe
In M+, I'd go charge > thunder clap > shockwave, then shield block out of that. Rather get some aggro & control.
signal plover
SB will mitigate more and it's off GCD so just dump rage into it first
modern brook
shockwave is smart i like that.
modern brook
I dont lose mobs between clap + revenge procs
waxen steppe
Can put Avatar/Demo up during the shockwave, then blow stuff up with TC/revenge. Good times.
modern brook
unless DPS get antsy but im generally faster then them in chain pulls etc
signal plover
Yeah it's about getting to pulls first
waxen steppe
Shorter CD on Demo Shout & Avatar baseline is so nice tbh.
modern brook
I did a +11 seat yesterday and I'm not sure how much of it was me pressing buttons bad vs horrible tuning
but it was a fucking adventure
signal plover
Seat is dumb
signal plover
The downside of using shockwave on pull is that you're not using it as an interrupt/stuns once mobs get into their more dangerous spells
modern brook
thats a good point
How do people feel overall on Prot going into BFA?
I've heard its the worst but i actually like it
signal plover
Feels good
uneven mason
Like a rock
waxen steppe
Aye true. Tbh with the damage we do now you can honestly just pop avatar before the charge & just chain pull lol. Feels like we do mental damage offensively.
modern brook
I'm bouncing between warrior and DK for BFA
waxen steppe
Apart from charge & IP being on the GCD, I really like it tbh. I'm glad we've gotten RC back instead of Inspiring, I think our talents are much more interesting overall, and yeah... Just those few GCD complaints.
signal plover
Ppl that say prot warr is the worst are probably not speaking from well played personal experience
modern brook
IP on global has probably killed me more than I like to admit
`specially since my WA are fucked
waxen steppe
Marok's IP weakaura is great tbh.
modern brook
I like the talents we got but am sorta disapointed theres like maybe 2 choices across the whole tree
I havent gotten around to updating mine is all
modern brook
^^^^^
signal plover
Tbh I rly don't care that much about the devastator change. You don't hit devastate THAT much atm
I understand why ppl liked devastator
waxen steppe
But honestly, with Avatar & the TC talent, there's not those periods back in EN where we just spammed the hell outta devastate.
modern brook
Its just a feel bad button imo
modern brook
like its their to remind you you cant do anything else
waxen steppe
Yeah true. Devastate doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as it did in 7.0.
signal plover
I'm like yeah it's not fuckin awesome but it's a filler that resets SS and Prot warr is all about dat reset gameplay
modern brook
so any word on why we still have ravager as a talent
signal plover
Cuz lol
waxen steppe
Lol I was going to mention Ravager tbh. Wouldn't mind seeing it baseline.
signal plover
Wouldn't mind seeing it gone
modern brook
^
modern brook
I want it baseline so it still never gets used tbh
signal plover
It's a new player trap
grim prism
Lol
signal plover
Compared to the other two talents* it looks cool
grim prism
If Ravager were baseline then people would call you bad for not using it
modern brook
Anger management + Bolster is the stupidest combo TBH
grim prism
And that is something I just cannot abide
modern brook
completely removes choice from those tiers.
waxen steppe
Avatar & Ravager would be mental tbh.
Our AoE potential is already nuts with TC/Revenge.
modern brook
Avatar + Dragon Roar + Ravager
waxen steppe
Hngg β€
modern brook
See my aoe burst
grim prism
Lol then take it over AM or HR soobs
amber siren
Ravager does less damage than a TC Still doesn't it? Don't really see it being crazy (or helpful) in anyway
signal plover
Wouldn't TC still be more dmg?
modern brook
TFW
grim prism
Self loathing
signal plover
We're mememing
signal plover
Talking about if it was baseline
grim prism
Needing a new button to click
signal plover
You're right no one scrolls up
modern brook
q: would it be useable if instead of parry it gave crit?
uneven mason
I saw someone say ravager in prot discord and I thought there was a law
No
look at the damage it does
its like, hitting every mob with devastate
once
waxen steppe
I mean, solution is simple: Just give us Bladestorm back.
kind urchin
If it were baseline AND off the gcd it might be used.
waxen steppe
Now you're playing with power.
uneven mason
That's been
The last line on that has been fixed btw
Dragons Roar now produces threat as of this hotfix
lol
modern brook
Do we ever use it now?
uneven mason
It has its moments
modern brook
I feel like unstoppable force is just too good
uneven mason
UF leads it in nearly all situations
but the 50% snare can come in handy
rather, I could see it being situationally good
and it still hits like a truck
modern brook
and it generates rage π€·
uneven mason
PVPing I Avatar/BV boosted a roar and managed to kill a few folks from 30%
But TC hits nearly as hard
in the same situation
TC ends up being like 165% of AP
modern brook
yikes x2
uneven mason
Its why Sense is #1 damage in his Beta M+s
for trash anyway
he crushes packs like beercans
But yeah so DR being useful, I use it for PVP
kind urchin
Our aoe damage is nuts.
uneven mason
cause 50% AE snare is handy
and prot is baller in PVP right now
esp if you're being cheesy wit 4p
modern brook
I only have 2 pc π’
I mained vengence through most of legion because im bad at world of warcraft
waxen steppe
Not as bad as me, dogc - I ended up on Guardian Druid.
modern brook
^ at least the bear looks cool
waxen steppe
For ToS/Antorus anyway.
modern brook
I rolled one strictly to get swole bear so if i ever watned to be a bear i could look cool doing it
uneven mason
Guardian was nice for ABT tho
"Bear Don't Care"
3 stacks of Forging Strike O NOES _ "Bear Don't care"
kind urchin
I'm probably gonna continue to mog the mage tower appearance on all the tanks through bfa.
waxen steppe
Was even nicer for ToS though. I ended up playing my Warrior for nothing except Mythic Avatar - Where I topped the healing & pissed off our healers β€ Good times with IP.
uneven mason
Literally just stand there with your hands off the keyboard and a drinking bird casting ironfur and thrash
kind urchin
So... Bear is still gonna be a ware bear.
signal plover
Swolebear*
modern brook
ahh yes. A symbiotic relationship between a thirsty bird and a carefree bear
kind urchin
True
modern brook
nature is beautiful
waxen steppe
I will say this though, Warrior survived the patch better than the other tanks (apart from Monk) in my opinion.
kind urchin
I copied my vengeance on beta and played for like 10 mins then didn't touch it again.
waxen steppe
It is, but I'm not a fan.
undone sun
less so than say a brew or bear
uneven mason
VDH is solid
I mean
all the tanks are doing well
Bear is probably the worst off, because they got like, ZERO changes
beyond losing the artifact ability
waxen steppe
(I'm just talking about fun to play btw, not commenting on balance). Druid without RotS is meh - It needs berserk baseline.
Meanwhile, Warriors get like 3/4 abilities back π
uneven mason
Oh fun to play, heh, that isn't anything I'd ever apply to bur
waxen steppe
I love having Rallying Cry.
modern brook
they also lost gutteral roars
kind urchin
I'm still partial to my warrior. Probably because I've been playing him since the dawn of time.
modern brook
which feels bad cause that was like 30% of the reason to play bear
amber siren
Druid is the struggle to maintain focus during pulls π΄
waxen steppe
Hey, it allows me to watch osu! streams while doing farm. That's gotta count for something.
modern brook
I know this isnt the channel for it; but I'm a firm believer that osu! is the last good game in the 21st century
undone sun
lol
modern brook
Its the most mechanically demanding shooter
amber siren
Isn't osu the weeb game
modern brook
yeh.
stuck oxide
Is anyone working on a azerite trait tier list π
I did my own but i would like to compare
finite cairn
I think some people were talking it when beta came around, something like brace for impact, thunderclap one, and maybe one other being the best, dunno if there in an official list though
stuck oxide
Defeaning crash, iron fortress, brace for impact,the new champion of Azeroth,lifespeed,gemhide and Archive of the Titans. These are all azerite trait that stand out to me
signal plover
Yes that's very helpful
merry cave
After throwing my head against grevious in 23+ keys, i really really fucking with IV was bsaeline
it would make a world of difference having that
wish*
merry cave
Id still love IV baseline for it though -_-, but between no way to help with my stacks and disc heals its god awful
ember arrow
The worst part is waiting after combat
To be healed
10/10 gameplay
I just ask a mage before i do m+ for cookies and give them to healer
Solves most problems
Especially since healer must heal well after combat
merry cave
Or when you finish the key and its not removed anymore π
ember arrow
U can hs
merry cave
Yeah
merry cave
lol
ember arrow
Warr i did up to 19
I feel sooo reliant on healer
If im low without ls its horrible
LS
kind urchin
Can't log on and run anything until Sunday so I guess I'll get to see how bad it is in a couple days.
errant ledge
Why dont you just eat fighter chow
errant ledge
I just used it last night unless they hotfixed it?
uneven mason
hm
errant ledge
Works perfectly fine
uneven mason
I guess mileage may vary
grim prism
hey, if you are having to wait to drop combat every pull, why dont you try using an item that heals you when you wait for combat to drop every pull
errant ledge
Thats what fighter chow is
grim prism
Great idea, i'll file that along with fireproofing my house by burning it down
kind urchin
Because something that only works out of combat works great while constantly in combat.
uneven mason
yes
dusk locust
if you want to bring a boss like portal keeper to the edge on pull, do you intercept in and move back with her, or heroic throw?
opaque pagoda
I usually taunt and then spam throw
That might be risky with the lower threat now
Used to be the taunt multiplier made that work fine
dusk locust
that's what i've been doing. missing out on some rage/damage though i guess
opaque pagoda
I suppose
ruby berry
fighter chow doesn't regen more than 5 stacks of greivous takes away. That's as of yesterday about noon eastern.
It'll maintain you a bit longer, but doesn't regen enough to get rid of it.
grim prism
@earnest sand IV can be used on a 30 sec cooldown and VR procs still happen as normal
grim prism
Using VR with a proc will still put IV on cooldown. IV just gives you the option to heal every 30 sec as opposed to waiting for procs
Oh yeah they are
undone sun
yeah, pretty sure they are sense
grim prism
My B
I am new pls no ban
Oh wait, I misunderstood the question entirely anyhow. Yes you need an actual killing blow for both, not just kill participation
modern brook
@dusk locust taunt -> throw spam -> intercept before min distance -> sideways walk back
maintains threat, rage generation, positioning speed, and block angle
dusk locust
that sounds good to me
lapis gazelle
The best of both worlds
earnest sand
Yeah, the killing blow part. Cos the talent reads like participation might be enough.
(which would've been helpful for grievous my poor Disc friend was not having a good time)
lapis gazelle
MonkaS
modern brook
something something protection winkwink
wicked bear
HI everybody, came back after couple of months break. thinking of continuing prot war in bfa, probably MT for guild, what are your thoughts? will it be alright for raids etc?
I see that GCD messed up with IP , rage regen is meh
dusk locust
it'll work great
grim prism
Its fine, everything is fine
wicked bear
I like to see good level of positivity π
grim prism
People act like the sky is falling
modern brook
There's a lot of hype about prot being dead but i think its mostly people who dont tank that are talking about it
grim prism
All tanks got similar changes and everything is viable
"X is dead, long live X" -wow players every patch
dusk locust
it's because hyperbole is fun
wicked bear
sad but true, no matter what
lapis gazelle
Yeah
grim prism
Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever, you mean
wicked bear
I played it while people were complaining, and while they've been talking shit I was melting faces π
dusk locust
heh
modern brook
Superlatives are the easiest way to sound smart
dusk locust
plus i get a great deal of satisfaction performing well on something that isn't favored by popular opinion
grim prism
I'll have you know that I have over 60 thousand comment karma on various wow subreddits so i am very well-versed in sounding smart
lapis gazelle
r/iamverysmart
grim prism
I know precisely the right angle and velocity at which to strike the keyboard with my face to do max prot damage
wicked bear
hard swing and gg π
signal plover
I sneak into balsaqs room at night and talent ravager
grim prism
Thank god, i thought i was blacking out mid-pull again
signal plover
Time will come again
opaque pagoda
I personally will be switching to a DK until they do something about IP, I just donβt find it fun right now
But Iβll go back when they fix it probably
grim prism
I mean it's not like it was really all that engaging to begin with
dreamy otter
rough granite
This is probably asked a bunch but Avatar isn't showing up in my book and has been removed from my bars, whats up with that
wide juniper
pins
rough granite
thanks
wide juniper
np
rough granite
Got it thanks
wide juniper
Awesome. π
uneven mason
Whats more engaging IP off the GCD, where you could literally bind it to your movement buttons and have the same level of engagement with it as if you were consciously pressing the buttons, or having it on the GCD and in such a state as to be irritating. I mean, at least irritation is engagement?
verbal arch
hey guys i had a list from this discord some month ago about all abilities etc that can be blocked/critically blocked in antorus. anyone of you still got it? if i remember correctly it was a google sheet
shut summit
tender phoenix
is [Kakushan's Stormscale Gauntlets] one of the best to have on for raiding/M+? (just need to make sure)
strong forum
only if you run devastator
tender phoenix
and if i run Booming voice?
tender phoenix
[Thundergod's Vigor] this one?
strong forum
yes
tender phoenix
even for raids?
strong forum
yes
demo shout only has 45cd and with unstoppable force you will reduce the CD of Demo every 1.5sec by 3 sec
in ST
not to mention in combination with Anger Management
tender phoenix
ok thank you for you help and quick question shield block over ignore pain?
tender phoenix
ok will keep that in mind
astral crystal
there is no greater meme than "it's better because it makes you think more/is more engaging"
lapis gazelle
Mine almost autocorrected to Thunderbirds
kind mirage
Ah ah
lapis gazelle
Which I think would also be pretty cool
kind mirage
I concur
feral crypt
oh boi, just went back and wanted to run kara+0 solo, rip dps
chilly brook
Is kakushans still the best default DPS leggo? Even if not running Devastator?
cosmic cargo
it's kinda mediocre without devastator
chilly brook
Really wish theyβd just let us have Devastator baseline or at least not on the same tier as BV π
cosmic cargo
not sure if it beats a statstick
chilly brook
I mean Iβve been running belt and it since patch dropped
cosmic cargo
but if you care for dps just go devastator with kakushan
chilly brook
But it was also my first leggo way back when
cosmic cargo
it's a survivability loss over BV ofc
eternal roost
How does the rotation stay smooth with devawtator?
chilly brook
And AM
cosmic cargo
without leggies BV is best for dps
but the gloves kinda carry devastator (and/or vice-versa)
(gap isn't huge though)
chilly brook
I donβt think it makes it smooth at all
Pressing a button because you donβt have anything else is meh
chilly brook
Iβd rather they gave us heroic strike back and have that be off the gcd with a low rage cost and have that be tied to resetting shield slam then having to press devastate
THEN youβd have a smoother rotation
Devastate used to be cool back in Wrath
When it actually did something
supple mist
is it me or did prot warriors get nerfed to the fookin' ground?
chilly brook
Itβs you
cosmic cargo
i mean it is one of the tanks that lost the most
chilly brook
TBH after playing with it a few nights post pre patch I donβt feel like Iβm worse off than any other tank tbh
Still doing a shit ton of healing with IP
cosmic cargo
imo it's middle-pack for raid, which is good enough
cosmic cargo
that IP healing is mostly 4p
chilly brook
Yea it is
cosmic cargo
block is very strong
chilly brook
Not gonna deny that
chilly brook
CDs which you can get back decently quickly with AM
Not looking forward to losing all my haste
Sitting at 53% rn
Well 53% with 5 stack
supple mist
may just be me who hasn't adapted
first mythic+ and I went in Legion mode
failed xD
chilly brook
But at least we can say that come BFA content weβll be the one if not the only tank that gets a sizeable secondary stat boost to our most important secondary stat
autumn laurel
Current Prot Warrior kinda feels like Legion Prot Paladin without a heal
Youβre good if youβre mitigation is up but, if itβs not, RIP
chilly brook
Itβs gonna take some time to adapt because it does play decently differently without Devastator or IP off the gcd
broken kite
How many of you guys track ITF? pretty pointless but feels sorta nice to know when/how much is active
cosmic cargo
and we all know how well legion prot pala turned out before the hp buffs, right?
chilly brook
Donβt really track it but gotta have at least 2 stacks for it to be worth it
cosmic cargo
KJ 2 shotting them when outside of SoTR was "interesting"
chilly brook
Lul KJ
autumn laurel
Thatβs pretty much Prot War right now
broken kite
my co tank was prot pally, he laughed so hard at stam buffs because they were so un needed
cosmic cargo
prot pala had seriously issues during ToS though
it was fine on antorus not just because of the buff
chilly brook
I mean Blizz had a huge QA problem with ToS
broken kite
ToS was fucked
chilly brook
Yep
cosmic cargo
palas really really struggled with kj early on
chilly brook
Method even said βnah bruh you fucked up on KJ weβre not touching it until you fix your shitβ
Literally didnβt pull him for a little over a week
cosmic cargo
true
broken kite
brb having krosus flashbacks
heavy chasm
That sounds like ghuun on the beta
I feel like he will be pretty similiar if they don't iron it out lol
cosmic cargo
haven't tried anything on beta besides fetid
heavy chasm
Although atleast beta is just that beta. It's not like 3rd or 4th content drop of an expack like ToS
chilly brook
Apparently prot doesnβt actually do bad with gahun
And they seriously seemed to overtune heroic in beta lul
eternal roost
what i was trying to ask earlier
is what do i do in the window where everything is on cooldown and ive got no rage? ._.
just sit there?
broken kite
ask for externals
broken kite
re-spec
chilly brook
Oh yea just sit there
junior ivy
dont use devestator
broken kite
use BV
tiny sphinx
devastator doesn't give rage anymore so it's effectively worthless
eternal roost
proc + ignore pain = 27 rage
broken kite
BV gives most rage by a mile
junior ivy
^^
cosmic cargo
it's not about the rage
broken kite
so if you're concerned about rage, use BV
cosmic cargo
i said for dps
chilly brook
TBH how much haste do you have?
chilly brook
Devastator isnβt worth if you donβt have a lot of haste either
chilly brook
But yea
eternal roost
ive lost track of time and idk what day it is
chilly brook
TBH I would seriously recommend using BV
Vengeance is ok but BV has much more value offensively and defensively
eternal roost
heres the thing though
im a pussy
so i wont rebind my shout to an accessible key
using control-3
chilly brook
So you donβt even use your shout?
eternal roost
^
chilly brook
:omegalul
eternal roost
^
eternal roost
only blizzard can
broken kite
yikes
hallow basin
oooof.mp4
signal plover
Dis trollin'
eternal roost
gloves
amber siren
Up to you, bracers and gloves aren't a terrible choice and I know someone was using sephuz
broken kite
i use belt/bracers
crystal night
Anyone got some dank Ignore pain weakauras?
also how low can we get our sheildblock recharge time? looks like it scales with haste FUck yeah boi
gaunt turtle
whas the point i only use it to replace a devastate XDDD
signal plover
@crystal night 
eternal roost
youre gonna want 100% haste
so shield slam is like bloodthirst
except it does crits for 5k even at half-low ilvl
signal plover
π€
eternal roost
(with the right talents)
and hey
it can even reset
so thunderclap is your legion inner rage Raging Blow
and devastate is the in-between, paired with kakushan
ez
just stack haste, youll be shit but itll be fun
crystal night
Str-> haste?
amber siren
Yes is the answer in like 99% of situations barring very close upgrades where you can be pickier on secondaries
stark sage
understand that STR directly correlates to ilvl, as does STAM and ARMOR, all of which are very powerful defensively
amber siren
For sure, the guide can give much more in-depth answers than my one sentence ass
amber siren
Surprise π
haughty socket
i don't know whats the worst thing, IP on GCD, devastator getting cucked, shield block at 30 rage, and it goes on
stark sage
prot has always been really good in my heart
chilly brook
Nor will Demoralizing Shout or Avatar
That just shouldnβt be a thing
Itβs basically a nerf to you offensively AND defensively
stark sage
fwiw everyone got the same treatment
chilly brook
Lul no
stark sage
π€
amber siren
Prot is good, we have great cooldowns and block is very strong in BFA. We still have the same self-healing shortcomings in M+ but we'll have to see how it pans out @junior ivy
stark sage
prot's damage is also kinda ridiculous atm, expect a hefty nerf
chilly brook
Not really
weary notch
expel harm is on the GCD, but it's always been that way
chilly brook
Itβs fairly in line with everything else
stark sage
prots aoe bursting more than fury is
weary notch
^
astral crystal
isn't vdh doing pretty nutty dmg now too?
chilly brook
In terms of tank damage itβs very similar
Across the board tanks have always done really good aoe DPS
stark sage
not like topping charts in a m+ run ridiculous
chilly brook
@weary notch yea but thatβs nothing new
And itβs also very rarely used
Ummmm
Vengeance DH?
haughty socket
so are legendaries still gloves/belt?
weary notch
yeah, gloves/belt. For DPS. Legs aren't awful for survivability if you're having trouble with that
amber siren
Belt is a must right now, second is a toss up. As Brun said gloves are still BIS DPS wise as are bracers for surv.
weary notch
legs are also very powerful now. Bracers are not as well valued since we spend a lot less rage than we used to. They're not bad, they're just not as good as they used to be
amber siren
What encounters are you using legs for? I haven't used them at all yet, just for the higher SB uptime?
chilly brook
Pretty good for Argus
haughty socket
i don't so much mind putting devastate back on my bar, nor the more expensive SB.. but IP and CDs being on GCD just makes things feel so clunky
weary notch
yeah, they help fill in the loss of SB uptime that we got with the pre-patch
chilly brook
Yep @haughty socket
haughty socket
also if im reading this right they forgot to give us avatar at the beginning? lol
chilly brook
They forgot what fun and smooth gameplay felt like too
weary notch
they just switched out Reck (battle cry) for Avatar, which was a good call IMO
haughty socket
i mean yeah i like avatar.. and having rallying cry.. but damn i can't get over how bad IP feels. keep the major CDs just give me IP back
weary notch
you do get used to it. It's also not going to save your life at low health like it used to, on GCD or not.
chilly brook
Iβd say give blizz feedback but weβve seen where they put it
pearl sinew
How do you guys think BFA Prot warrs for higher level M+ are going to be?
I feel like they are lacking self heals but I really want to play warr ><
final mist
We have more utility than we used to and our DPS is bonkers.
No one really has self-healing anymore.
All tanks need to be focused by healers or they fall over.
The other tanks have "self-healing", but they mitigate less up-front than we do as a result, which evens things out.
pearl sinew
Have you seen how they are in M+ content in BFA?
final mist
I have seen other warriors do them, and I have done some. We are very good with how Avatar and Unstoppable Force work.
The only thing we're "lacking in" is a mass grip, but we have other things instead.
sweet kettle
other things that arent really good
sweet kettle
they are planing to change something?
sweet kettle
a good thing they can do to prot warrior is give him self healing
final mist
Okay, first, no I don't know if things are changing. Second, and this isn't the first time I've said this, but people need to actually look at things instead of taking shit at face value.
sweet kettle
cause that is really important for m+
sweet kettle
but still tanks who have it are better than tanks who dont
final mist
Okay, you're taking a 100k hit. Would you rather mitigate 85% of that and have no self-healing, or mitigate 50% of that and self heal for another 20% of the damage?
sweet kettle
dont know ask dks or dhs
final mist
People are still thinking in terms of Legion, where self-healing was utterly busted, which it isn't anymore. DHs and DKs need as much, if not more, healer focus because they mitigate less upfront because they have self-healing.
I've seen and done pulls on a Warrior and seen/done more damage and taken less than I've seen on the other tanks.
sweet kettle
self healing will always be something useful for a tank to have
final mist
But you're missing / ignoring my point in that it's not as important as it used to be.
sweet kettle
cause the healer will not focus healing them and will do other stuff
final mist
Healers still need to hard focus DHs and DKs, in some cases moreso than the other tank classes.
Just as much, if not more, as they need to hard focus and heal Warriors, or Paladins, or Monks.
sweet kettle
even if you can take big hits warriors dont have the form of utility a dh or dk can provide
that may be kitting or even controlling big groups
ember arrow
dk especially really isnt the same as it was in legion
u must understand that
its muuch weaker
i know because im playing one literally right now
sweet kettle
every tank is much weaker
charred island
DK's/DH self sustain and ability to kite will help them do higher lvl Mythic+ content over Prot easily
sweet kettle
but all the high keys i see are dh/dk
sweet kettle
yes but they dont have group managements for the adds
while dh/dk has that
paladin has some with his avenger shield but the others dont
final mist
We have slows and stuns, fears, etc. The only thing DHs have over us are the mass silence / grip.
We take less damage and do more.
sweet kettle
but its not only about the dmg
final mist
They take more damage both upfront and with self-healing.
sweet kettle
we cant control or make big pulls as effectively as dh/dk
ember arrow
and you know this how?
charred island
Beta testing
ember arrow
monk is arguably better
charred island
Monk will be strong for raids, but not as strong when it comes to Mythic+
sweet kettle
monk can be good in places were you can abuse ring of peace
final mist
And the utility they have does not make them significantly better, in my opinion.
All of the tanks are reasonably comparable in m+.
ember arrow
unless ur going world top it doenst matter
if u ask here, then ur not top of world
simple
sweet kettle
but i aint asking
final mist
You can make a case for any of them - Warriors have less utility (and still have more than we used to, mind you), but we have shit to compensate. DKs and DHs have more utility, and less other shit.
Monks are Monks, Paladins are Paladins.
The only ones who got fucked were bears.
sweet kettle
well yeah bears are useless in all aspects
but at the end of the day the tank with the more utility and add managements will come ahead
final mist
If you're top world raiding and aren't Sco, then sure, bear sucks. But they're fine for anyone outside of that.
sweet kettle
warriors/paladins can be great for cheese imo
final mist
And again, we'll see.
charred island
If your focus is Mythic Progression/Server 1st/ or Compete in Mythic+ content then yes it matters what tank you're focusing to level and gear.
charred island
If you don't care then it really doesn't matter. That is the only form of separation.
sweet kettle
thats what i am talking about high M+
ember arrow
different people have diff definition of high
final mist
Joe, if you aren't World 50-100, then your choice doesn't matter. You can play whatever and do fine.
sweet kettle
every class in the game can do 10-15 or whatever the cap will be
final mist
And I still think that tanks are reasonable comparable even in high M+, based on my own experience.
Which is the same shit from any other m+ tank.
10s are the high shit on beta rn
charred island
That isn't true either Sal. If you have the ambition to push for server 1st or goal to get top world 50-100 it does matter on what tank you play
sweet kettle
well from legion raiderio score tanks arent the same
charred island
It does matter if you want to clear high level keys and compete
final mist
Guess what? This isn't Legion.
charred island
Speaking from a Esport Director stand point it does
sweet kettle
but the same thing will happen
charred island
High Level players are already demonstrating that it does matter in Beta what tanks you will need to play to be effective.
Similar to Legion
ember arrow
what is high for u, taking legion m+ levels
sweet kettle
exactly some tanks / dps/ healers specs will always come ahead
the problem is that blizzard does nothing to balance them
there logic is if you can do 15+ you are ok but thats not the point
charred island
That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about MDI competition levels.
ember arrow
and how many people are doing those keys
to base whole specs around them?
100?
200?
1 group did +30
charred island
If your goal is to compete either in a Mythic+ setting or push your guild for server 1st it does matter
ember arrow
does that mean all tanks are bad except dk?
charred island
That has been my point
ember arrow
so is mine
worthy ether
ROFL
ember arrow
but the vast vast majority wont
charred island
omg
worthy ether
/eats popcorn at this
ember arrow
so saying prot is bad because they cant do something only 200 players do anyway is silly
or30 incase of server first
20*
worthy ether
prot is bad for BFA currently they have random spikes of downtime in CDs/Midgation
charred island
No....I said Prot is bad for Specific reasons like Mythic+ competitions or going for World/Server 1st
ember arrow
random spikes that you can see coming
charred island
If you don't care about that. If you don't care about how long it takes to complete something or you are not competing then play w.e
worthy ether
convo over, go back to LFR and low M+
ember arrow
wut
this feels like calling a ford fiesta bad because they arent used in formula 1 races
even though it will perform great in almsot any other situation
midnight flare
Is that a british Ford Fiesta or an America?
ember arrow
idk
crystal night
Is there any way to make ignore pain ignore more than 12.4k damage?
charred island
Ignore the ignore and it can be anything you want
cinder pasture
Ignore harder π
crystal night
LMAO
ember arrow
it scales with gear
crystal night
Ty Ty
ember arrow
so it will be bigger when u level ur ilvl
but it isnt the all absorbingshield it was in legion
crystal night
interesting thank you
ember arrow
@final mist how does it work exactly. say i have an IP of 10000, absorbing 50% dmg of that means that the IP will disappear when it absorbed 5000 damage, or is 10000 the 50% it mentions? if that makes sense
ember arrow
ok so its just as it says
amber siren
Math
final mist
I don't recall how the actual buff reads in BfA because I actually don't give a shit since the shield is so piddly that I just don't care to remember.
Blocking is where the real DR is at now boys.
ember arrow
pressing revenge atleast feels like u pressed a button
IP feels like u have 500 ms fori gcd
lapis gazelle
Does attack power come from strength?
vivid orchid
and mastery for us, but yes
ember arrow
what does?
lapis gazelle
Increasing your attack power gives IP a bigger absorb
It's a bit counter intuitive
lapis gazelle
Surely you would build a defensive stat for a defensive ability
ember arrow
well, strength is best for derfence
broken kite
agree memeboi
ember arrow
ilvl is king, and it has more STR on higher ilvl
broken kite
"hm feast gives me stam as a tank, surely game design would give me ideal stat"
"lol"
lapis gazelle
Wait
weary notch
Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I feel bad for people who are new to this game wondering about this stuff. Especially since blizz keeps removing information from tooltips
broken kite
memeboi makes a good point
lapis gazelle
So prot doesn't need stam?
broken kite
str is better
ember arrow
^
lapis gazelle
Damn
broken kite
but yeah, it's not intuitive
lapis gazelle
That's also a bit counter intuitive
weary notch
and crit doesn't affect crit block. Also counter intuitive
ember arrow
why can i reflect chaotic energy
broken kite
kek
ember arrow
but not nightmare eruption
weary notch
but I can't think of a game that can really pull that off. Maybe Breath of the Wild. Divinity: Original Sin 2. Maybe