#protection
steady cedar
this was a fun bug
turns out it was the adds being brought to the platform too quickly
errant ledge
Is spell reflect only reflecting one or two spells during its duration an intentional change for bfa, or is this a bug?
I have also noticed allot of boss spells no longer reflectable at all
ember arrow
its intentionally reflecting 1
thats the spell
artifct trait "reflective plating" let you reflect unlimited amount ofspells
errant ledge
What i mean is
For example on shade of medihv, his arcane missiles. When you reflect one cast of it, it will only reflect one tick of his arcane missles
errant ledge
Same applies for other boss mechanics like dots
ember arrow
thats how the base spell works
u cant reflect dots if u have one on u
what boss ability cant u reflect?
example
errant ledge
Just figured it would reflect the entire cast since it is a channel
errant ledge
Yea, makes sense now
merry cave
Reflect last tick only works to a certain level and then it just doesn't matter, just go with good kicks it's a lot safer
opaque pagoda
Definitely thinking about retiring my warrior until they put IP off the GCD again, or do something very different with it
I hate it
ember arrow
what?
undone sun
vivid orchid
yea I duno
undone sun
nice
vivid orchid
yeah ive not heard of that at all
undone sun
yeah, it's not in the dungeon journal
undone sun
doesn't affect tanks
tardy panther
Question, with the stat squich, are the tanking bosses in Skyhold hitting harder. I'm trying out prot (fury man) but seems like the tanking dummies are hittn' pretty hard
squich*
vivid orchid
well I can confirm that those hotfix notes are not complete
undone sun
yes, they're scaled up to 123 @tardy panther
vivid orchid
they fixed nat pagle in wod garrisons, so perhaps theres other raid changes not mentioned
tardy panther
Ok, thanks. I thought there is no way I suck this bad. I mean - hell. LOL
I was on the 112 boss tho
old night
Not sure if it's already been mentioned or not but for those that use Khakhan's WA set, it got updated over the weekend
https://wago.io/NJeZW75_Z
dusk junco
hey so are we boring now or.......I went from 4 macros that helped me keep my skill uptime at max down to 1....and its a racial mixed with....intervene . I now spend half my time waiting to use abilities that were off GCD and now are on. So I get less EVERYTHING
they fucked it up
ignore pain. they fucked it up
shouts. GCD. fucked it up
moved a passive to talent that I have to take for a faster reset. fucked it up
wanton sentinel
Played other tanks?
wanton sentinel
Everyone is slower + has absorbs/heals on GCD
dusk junco
I dont give a shit about other tanks
wanton sentinel
I found Prot to be the most engaging still, by far.
dusk junco
Just because you fuck everyone up doesnt mean you didnt get fucked up
Its a god damn shame. Tanking is a poor mans game now. No macros, no constant dps weaving, no stacking abilities
one at a time hit this key mundane garbage.
astral crystal
play healer for whack-a-mole action :^))
astral crystal
i foresee a lot of healers tying a noose around their necks in BFA
astral crystal
you don't have to, and the game is a lot different at 120
have you had a chance to play beta?
prot warr is honestly looking pretty solid
dusk junco
I know its "solid for the content and vs others when you suggest magic mitigation and this and that"
But you made it dumb at the same time
astral crystal
wut
dusk junco
you dumbed it down. Made it shit. Even if we're "better if comparison for possible BfA raiding"
You can dumb down the entire tanking line. Making tanking boring as shit and removing DPS. All while making prot pop up at the top and considered a likely best for raids.
That doesn't matter. It blows now. Its boring. Its waiting. Its world of global cooldown.
IP is on global cooldown for fucks sake, not just your shouts now, not just your one-offs, but IP also
crystal night
It's not that bad man lol. I do content just fine on love right now and did content just fine on beta
crystal night
The AoE damage is nutty with T-clap spec and demo shout practically 100% uptime
Well that's subjective as fuck lol
How do you measure fun? Lol
dusk junco
If dumbing it down and slowing everyone down to a halt is fun then it's a blast.
crystal night
It's actually a bit more difficult given that you have to think about using your gcd to get out of fire opposed to just using your off gcd mobility and continuing your set in stone rotation
dusk junco
I want to feel good at my class by having a measurable ability rotation that is tough to tough to learn and muscle memory when mastered. I want to be noticeably better than the scrub playing 3 years less than me because a roation and set of macros exist.
Its not. ITs more difficult because youre adjusting
It is not more difficult
Its just not bro
crystal night
Well you can do that by pushing high M+. Or pushing high healing or damage parses on tank fights or whatnot
And bro ull be able to tell the shitter from yourself playing well . I think I see what your saying tho about simplicity
Every other gcd is just T-clap in avatar
dusk junco
There is less room now to be better
crystal night
Mythic raiding azerte traits might be a point to say -yeah I'm this much better so I have this advantage
dusk junco
Now we're ALL waiting on GCDs. I cant tweak my rotation near as much
crystal night
And having a dank M+ score is always respectable
dusk junco
I'm waiting just like the next tank to push the next button
crystal night
There's a really cool azerte trait for warriors that gives us a slight rotation shift
dusk junco
Whats that
dusk junco
Alright thats better...
crystal night
I'm gonna be gong ham for that
So far I only see a helmet and a shoulder peice with that trait on it
No chest:(
So far. Maybe it will show up
Or maybe it's a rep reward or crafted idk :P
dusk junco
Anything extending an ability on GCD helps move it back where it was
But It wont be enough. It helps.
crystal night
Yeah cuz then we don't gotta keep refreshing demo shout
You should be able to keep demo shout on someone for the entirety of your avatar without casting it again which will feel awesome
dusk junco
And what about IP? .......That shove your DPS right up your own ass
crystal night
lOL
dusk junco
And there is less thought into when to use it
to either save rage or save your ass
now its....push,....live...uugggghh
repeat
crystal night
Yeah I p is a bit awkward but I guess it's gonna help for taking these big magical hits in Uldir
dusk junco
no tweaking and timing
it will. I get the magic dmg.
But its more boring
my entire gripe
crystal night
But you're gonna have to time it like 4 globals ahead of the actual ability coming out
So that right there might be the factor that separates the prot warrior who are bad and die or those who pre emptive prepared for those big magic hits
dusk junco
thats fair Ill give you that.
crystal night
But yeah I feel what Ur saying about it feeling super easy and almost oversimplified
dusk junco
bliz needs more tanks to fill teh gaps and went about it by punishing better players
its annoying
crystal night
Yeah and lowering the skill ceiling
dusk junco
^
crystal night
And no more gear swapping . That hurt my soul a bit for M+ :(
O well we will shine bruthur
dusk junco
I swapped gear every fight or raiding depending on my guild leaders mood. Good mood, I'm chasing world records for ilvl dps.
crystal night
I'm excited as fuck to do M plus as prot war
dusk junco
bad moods, I'm tanking lol
crystal night
Lmao damn raid leads man
dusk junco
I hear ya, I wont change because prot is life. Has been for 12 years, I'm just annoyed. They usually complicate things and extend the pro gap as expansions progress
Heres to hoping they do that again
I should say they simplify things....and then extend the pro gap as the exp moves
wooden dove
anyone has a Vengeance tracker WA for 8.0.1?
merry cave
If you can't find it on wagon I oubt anyone's made it because no one's really using it
hollow kite
did they fix the 4set?
undone sun
no
ashen trellis
4 set isnt broken?
vivid orchid
broken as in overpowered
somber dragon
is it looking realistic that we'll get to the block point where we'll hit the crit block cap of 85%
?
(at 120?)
opaque pagoda
protection fucking sucks
goddamn
even in fucking mythic+, the avatar + DS combo takes so many fucking GCD's that you can't spend your rage
I'm shocked that there are people who don't consider this an abject failure of class design
shut summit
https://puu.sh/B23hK/0f7b1eb25a.png - my block at 120 with 365 shield / 2 block traits @somber dragon
somber dragon
raidbosses are still +3 though right?
shut summit
current target in SS is raidboss target dummy
somber dragon
and what is 365 ilvl "considered' (heroic dungeon?)
shut summit
heroic uldir is 370
somber dragon
so basically we're going to hit crit block cap early and just be pushing for that sexy increased chance at the crit block?
as well as more blocked baseline
merry cave
I really don't see the issue of you can plan ahead 1-2 gcd. IP is frustrating on the gcd at times but they clearly aren't interested in changing it
Using avatar prepull for example makes the pull fine
opaque pagoda
you're definitely correct that it's possible to work around how shitty it is
if that's the point you're tryhing to make
merry cave
š¤· maybe it's time to adjust or find a new tank. Doesn't feel shitty to me
opaque pagoda
I'm going DK, prot is awful
sick sentinel
Go DK. Imma be an awesome Magāhar Orc with Kruulās shield keeping alliance scum in check with some face bashing
Warrior is so fun- I know IP isnāt great anymore but itās still a blast to play. Iām with @merry cave - itās okay to move on if youāre not happy, ya know?
opaque pagoda
I don't personally understand how anybody could play warrior in legion and suddenly find it fun now
then again, I also don't give a single fuck about prot pvp
main vault
Probably because Legion was only one expansion in 14 years and BFA isn't the worse it's been.
I don't understand how someone can sit in the Discord of a class they aren't going to play and just bitch about how bad it is for no reason other than trying to make someone feel bad.
opaque pagoda
I ain't making anybody feel bad, people need to take responsibility for their own happiness!
main vault
Saying you cant understand how anyone can find it fun. Making flat statements like protection fucking sucks. And I'm shocked that there are people who don't consider this an abject failure of class design
You've literally come in here and attacked the people who play the class
opaque pagoda
it's true, I am shocked about it!
my words are an expression of my true feelings about the class, that's all
and it stems from the disappointment of maining a warrior for 12 years
sick sentinel
I feel like someone has been on YouTube watching tier lists
undone sun
main vault
Then make your words about the class and Blizzards design of it without putting down the people who play and enjoy the class or get fucked mate
main vault
It's like his is squinting harder at you lol
sick sentinel
I feel he squints into my soul, and I have failed. And my shame is great
acoustic stratus
why are blizz adamant on not putting IP off GCD
opaque pagoda
I don't really feel like I'm putting down people who play the class, I'm just very surprised that anybody is okay with this state of affairs
main vault
Because IP isn't a big part of the playstyke anymore and isn't used nearly as much
opaque pagoda
I didn't say "anybody who likes this is a dumb idiot who sucks at WoW", because that's not how I feel
I'm just surprised that people are positive
main vault
They aren't completely doomsdaying and listening to some internet memes about their class
They are intelligent enough to see that War is still perfectly capable to do the content they want using the class they love
sick sentinel
For me Krom- I do miss the t21 spam style. But I enjoy what warrior still does well. Iāve always enjoyed sword and board tanks, and after playing DH in legion, I wanna go back to my roots
amber siren
we have this conversation every day. classes go through different variations every expac, it doesn't mean 'it sucks' and telling any entire discord of other warriors that you don't find their definition of 'fun' applicable to yours is naturally going to stir a response
providing no feedback other than 'i don't like it'
opaque pagoda
Iāve offered plenty of feedback
The entire gameplay model is broken
Itās based around building rage that you basically canāt even spend
Because shield block doesnāt need it and IP isnāt worth it
Like I said before, avatar and DS take a ridiculous amount of time to put up and, again, drown out your ability to use IP
Yes, you can pre-cast avatar, but obviously thatās not helpful in combat
And sucks regardless as an action flow
IP would barely be worth it before the huge nerf, given that itās on the GCD
main vault
Where have you posted this feedback? Which forums?
opaque pagoda
Donāt say that Iām not offering feedback
vivid sage
DS drowns out ability to IP?
main vault
Other than throwing your hands in the air and complaining where have you posted constructive feedback
opaque pagoda
Iāve talked about it here, and MMOC and blizzard forums
main vault
Link please
main vault
Don't even have to open that thread to see it's not constructive
opaque pagoda
If you have bolster up with DS and avatar then TC SS and revenge just leave you rage capped
vivid sage
what if you press revenge again
amber siren
"If this doesn't change, then I feel like I'm going to have to switch to my Death Knight or Paladin"
Yikes dude have fun with hotp on gcd
main vault
The title is Protection is terrible
vivid sage
Like I said before, avatar and DS take a ridiculous amount of time to put up and, again, drown out your ability to use IP
opaque pagoda
Fine, anyway, I think itās fair to say that IP was the defining ability for protection in legion, and theyāve basically just obliterated that ability without offering any gameplay concessions in return
vivid sage
i'm still confused about that one
opaque pagoda
You just sit around pressing shield block every 13+ seconds with a full rage bar, incredible fun
amber siren
All these concerns about IP on GCD and DS and rage etc etc has been public knowledge from beta and the PTR for months, posting 5 days after pre-patch after class design is on hold until 8.1 is not helpful feedback ESPECIALLY with a clickbait and generalised title like 'protection warrior is terrible'
vivid sage
have you tried pressing revenge
main vault
tanks aren't supposed to do dps
opaque pagoda
There was a stretch where IP didnāt even exist on beta
And another where it functioned totally differently
opaque pagoda
So youāll forgive me if I considered it up in the air
Sorry I didnāt raise a shit fit sooner?
main vault
It's obvious they are trying to move away from IP and people just won't let it go
amber siren
All AM is off the GCD, all tank secondary defensives are on the GCD
opaque pagoda
Donāt know what to tell you
amber siren
That isn;'t warrior specific
opaque pagoda
Is that really obvious?
main vault
Yes
opaque pagoda
Maybe they should just make it take away 15% if your hit points when you press it
main vault
They removed it to try to make something else, ran out of time, and added a weak version
opaque pagoda
And print āyouāre dumbā in big letters in the middle of the screen
opaque pagoda
It seems clearer to me that they gave up on designing the spec than that theyāre trying to communicate a super secret message about IP
main vault
They should just say "you're dumb" just for logging into War right
It's not super secret if you have been paying attention
opaque pagoda
Okay
main vault
If you haven't it's your fault not Blizzs
opaque pagoda
Enjoy protection, glad you like it
main vault
Bye
amber siren
People just jump on the prot warrior hate train bcs it's easy with no understanding
Exactly like legion
Super tiring hearing the same rhetoric over and over
main vault
I don't even mind the rhetoric, people pop in all the time and say IP feels bad and etcm and that's fine
But saying "QQ lulz idk how anyone Luke's this terrible spec everything is so bad im quitting and going to play (class)" is ridiculous
amber siren
yeahhhh
lyric raven
remember IP at launch in legion...bringbackopignorepain
crisp slate
Don't doomsay just jump ship
xD
A lot of people don't like that Prot's APM was basically halved and that's ok
kind prairie
gloves and wrists still the go-to?
undone sun
defensively, bracers are still worth using,Yes.
Gloves dropped value with the nerf to devastator and fell behind belt
kind prairie
hmm so maybe wrists and belt. okie doke. I finally got logged in today and everything is... weird.
thanks!
I don't see avatar in my spelbook??
amber siren
spec out of prot and back in
kind prairie
thanks!
waxen cradle
The doom saying to be honest is why I let people get it out of there system when I see them doing it, because I have found the easiest way to end someone's rant of this or that is broken is to let them say what they want to and that be it.
That and its always entertaining... I tend to grab some popcorn, and set back and watch. I always feel like chanting Jerry... Jerry
empty locust
Every discord channel is filled with it...people don't like change often. For my 2 cents i'm really loving the new look prot warrior. I kind of feel like we might be very tough in BFA
Not sure why there is so much complaints about IP, it will scale with gear and become stronger as we go.
west vigil
cool convo @main vault
love people like that
got this one moron in my guild who complains every fucking day how he's going to quit cos of the prepatch problems or how priests are atm or something i dont fucking know
i'm just praying that one day when i log in he's gone
cant just put him on ignore either cos people engage to talk with him all the time since he's some old member
main vault
Yeah most people are muppetts
They all think it's only their class or blizzard is out to get them or whatever else goes through their heads
west vigil
yeah
and like the prepatch UI issues or scaling problems
they're temporary
they're acting like this is equivalent to like, servers being down for days in vanilla launch and blizz having to reimburse a free month
sick sentinel
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west vigil
they're clearly pve-server players
but i mean
only issue i have with warmode is the phasing and group finder
makes no sense
sick sentinel
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west vigil
just filter out the groups from group finder who have war mode in the opposite setting you have
sick sentinel
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ionic fern
I mean..warmode pissed me off yesterday . .i was at MoS summoning stone and a mage was there already also so i was like "Jeah, we can sumon people!!"..turned out he was in warmode and i wasn't so we couldn't even see eachother to summon others. š
west vigil
yup
sick sentinel
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west vigil
not sure what's the logic behind only orgrimmar/stormwind working for warmode
why not ironforge/thunder bluff/silvermoon etc
ionic fern
Probably so they can emphasize the faction battle even more since Stormwind & Orgrimmar are the "capital cities of the factions"
sick sentinel
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ionic fern
I'm using them for m+ as of now..they are amazing. : o
sick sentinel
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ionic fern
sick sentinel
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main vault
All those kinda things are annoyances. It baffles me people expect both Legion and BFA to be tuned
merry cave
I ditched gloves skullplace, in m+ at least
main vault
Im ok with getting punched in the dick for a couple weeks if the next two years are ok
merry cave
I find they have almost no value
sick sentinel
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west vigil
100% @main vault
sick sentinel
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main vault
If you mean every xpac/iteration of a spec will have issues, then yes
I think War should just be like War in FF14
With a shield
west vigil
fell cleave all day
hot locust
zzzz no ty
tight tree
But look at this this way: not to bitch, but we are literally getting spec we loved, but worse in every way: slower, less survivable. What should i want to play it? Blizzard not seem to give us anything, instead they take things from classes every expansion.
hot locust
inner release windows arent even fun
tight tree
Why should i want to play it*
main vault
They just gave you a whole expansion of things
hot locust
I find current avatar much more satisfying
main vault
The only way to move on is to take a step back
sick sentinel
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tight tree
I just want, for a change, to have expansion, where i see my class changes and yell "wow that is awesome, we are getting better in so many ways"
main vault
I mean that's kinda what Warriors are
sick sentinel
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hot locust
make clemency something else and turn us into PLD thats where fun is in ffxiv
sick sentinel
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tight tree
Instead they take things away to simulate excitement by adding them back via talents and azerite traits or w/e
sick sentinel
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main vault
That's literally only this expansion though
sick sentinel
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candid valley
kokushan
main vault
MoP War was a blast, WoD was even passable, as was Legion
sick sentinel
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west vigil
it's also dangerous to think "yeah all this will be fixed in 8.1"
sick sentinel
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west vigil
in legion they royally fucked up MM hunter halfway into the expansion
sick sentinel
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west vigil
yup it's a cycle
first you hope shit's fixed in beta, then prepatch, then 8.1, then you hope there's gonna be some changes later on and then you just wait for the next expansion and class changes
tight tree
And don't get me wrong, i am not arguing for overcomplication, i think that reasonable simplicity is good for many classes. But look at the warlocks. They improved them in many ways, people cant wait to play them, as an example. And literally EVERY tank plays worse than legion. It sucks that they did not improve anything , that is what i am saying.
cloud bone
everything feels fine for me except IP being on the gcd that's the only thing I dislike
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
and I'm sure we won't be hitting it as much anyways once we get to 120 cus we don't have the belt generating all that rage
sick sentinel
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i too hope they fix the way prot warr plays. Too me it's not very satisfiying right now. The heavy dependance on demoshout paired with devastator feels clunky. In contrast i tried fury briefly and it's seemingly fun right out of the box
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west vigil
i'm pretty sure they have a larger plan about tanking in general as a role
which is why tanks perform "worse than in legion"
sick sentinel
yes, that is what i mean. with booming voice you need to use devastate as a skill
cloud bone
from the little raid testing people have done what's the majority of tank damage from in uldir? white hits?
tight tree
Meh, rage gen on prepull is big problem. Spending globals before you can even shield block is awful. Precasting avatar is awful.
It has rhytmical feel to it now but still clunky issues.
sick sentinel
Agree with Braggha on that
amber siren
DS with BV gives you 40 rage instantly
sick sentinel
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i did yes š
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cloud bone
I mean as of right now I press it maybe once every minute
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
but that's cus I have rage gen out the wazoo with the belt
tight tree
Like compared to brewmaster when it just flows effortlessly, warrior feels like dropping heavy boulders, hard to get it in time and you can drop one on your own leg. Some may enjoy that tho š
cloud bone
oh true
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
I thought you meant feels bad to press not that it's practically useless
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
I wish devastator was on the tier with rumbling earth and stormbolt since it's utility and offers no survivability kinda
sick sentinel
of if they took demo off the gcd, then you could macro it. Would help the flow also i think
cloud bone
I don't think they'll ever do that tho since the entire talent row is useless aside from Booming voice and blizz knows it
tight tree
Devastator would be lesser problem tbh if they fix GCD and rage gen on pull.
cloud bone
so they put it on the gcd cus it's a "offensive" gcd
tight tree
Yeah they should just make it baseline and add talent row focused on cosmetic looks, like fiery weapons and burning eyes or sth š
cloud bone
but glyphs?
dusky thunder
it is evident that they don't know the direction they want to take prot.
dusky thunder
It is still an absorb correct?
cloud bone
yeah
stray tiger
Calling this useless skill absorb lul
cloud bone
"It's Something"?
dusky thunder
I think they are having the same troubles as they did with disc priest before they nerfed their absorbs coming out of WoD. They can't tune them properly and being that it is has a major function in prot they are having troubles tuning it. Because they can't buff it otherwise it is too strong and if it stays where it is at it is too weak. So they can't find that sweat middle ground. better off just giving a supplement talent or ability until they can figure out what they want to do
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
that's exactly what it is except worse cus it's on the gcd
sick sentinel
yep
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gray moon
IP is amazing with 4pc... ? Absorbs up to 110k
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
like outta all the stuff I tested IP on the gcd still annoys me the most outta anything
sick sentinel
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undone sun
yeah, 4pc is what makes it pretty strong
cloud bone
won't have that at 120 tho
undone sun
but without 4pc, which is what we'll see in bfa, it's lackluster to say the most
sick sentinel
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cloud bone
what lvl does it stop working or are they turning it off once bfa releases?
main vault
people will get used to not using it just like they got used to using it
gray moon
116
cloud bone
ok just like leggos
cloud bone
but they can't think of anything better
or they would've given it to us in beta after they removed IP the first time
sick sentinel
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main vault
IP as a whole just isn't needed though
sick sentinel
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tbh i would have been perfectly happy if they left everything how it was and just dialed down numbers. Fluidity in play was good
main vault
I personally liked having no IP and Bolster as a CD more
stray tiger
Prot would be pain for healers in bfa imho
hot locust
Have you tanked any M+ on the beta?
stray tiger
Very good idea to nerf ip to class, that can't heal
undone sun
well, all tanks have taken a pretty large hit in self sustainability
stray tiger
M+?
Have seen that on streams. Still dh/dk on tanks, see nearly no prot boys
amber siren
There are no big prot warr streamers tbh
hot locust
Sense streamed some tonight again, has been streaming for weeks now doing M+. He's even right there on the right and you can see the little circle go purple. >>>
š¤
Anyways
undone sun
hot locust
with no experience on raid testing
or M+ on beta
why try to make the judgement call that prot is going to be a pain for healers
sick sentinel
Agree with Lala, it's hard to make a call what is going to be viable and what isnt. Even if it's viable though, doesnt seem much fun to me in the current iteration
stray tiger
Maybe cause he has significant drop in mitigation atm, and we need to acquire Azerite first, to solve some(not all) problems, doesn't we?
hot locust
Well, if I want to go even further with my point...
Having done almost a hundred or more M+ on the beta at this point, protection feels pretty good.
hot locust
Although if I want to talk specifically about high keys that number dips to be around mid 20-30 or so.
hot locust
We're pretty damn sturdy.
main vault
AoE stun is nice, dmg is really nice
hot locust
The damage is ridiculous.
I don't know how we haven't gotten nerfed yet.
Oh wait...
No one plays prot heehee
stray tiger
What talents you use on war?
hot locust
swap menace and rumbling depending on dungeon
but I really like menace for infested
stray tiger
Haste is still need to be capped?
hot locust
What do you mean by capped?
Haste is good... there isn't some magical cap we're supposed to have or anything though.
stray tiger
I was incorrect in question, is it still most valuable stat on prot?
hot locust
Yes
tight tree
Still need some kind of reactive recovery abilith imo, if last stand is used for mitigation to cover gaps in shield block
Also everyone talking about m+, and i am interested in raid bosses comparsions, how do we feel? Anyone with beta raid testing under the belt?
jade tartan
@hot locust you might have just sealed the deal on me. I'll go Protection instead of VDH :p
kind mirage
Hey guys quick question : now that we can spam thunderclap like there's no tomorrow while in avatars, is it useful to take thunderstruck in bgs and world pvp for example ? Root spam seems nice but I do not see so much uses except maybe to slow a flag carrier... one can still cast while rooted, yes ?
main vault
hot locust
@tight tree sorry for late response, yeah I did raid testing but it hasnt been for a while. I was pretty comfortable meanwhile our BDK was losing his shit.
@jade tartan play whatever you find more fun. I think VDH is a lot of fun in M+ but i hate how it plays in raid.
Prot I find plenty of enjoyment in both, even in BFA. UF Avatar is so fun compared to Battle Cry imo.
tight tree
@hot locust thanks
Will play prot regardless, later in exp rerolling to more optimal class always on table for progress anyway
But will never play druid or paladin, i draw a thick line here š¤£
hot locust
We're very efficient to heal if we are playing well since between block and IP/CDs we're stable. HoTs and other such things are very effective that way and healers like that.
kinda like BRM with stagger, but we have the risk of spiking out and dying if we make mistakes moreso than monk.
limpid dagger
CDs sure, ip definitely not
hot locust
IP definitely helps damage smoothing, but ok.
hot locust
We dont have it up all the time, no.
Some packs I never even cast it even in +10s
But when I press it I am glad its there.
jade tartan
@hot locust which traits are you using ?
I've found this, I wonder if these are the only ones available?
Bloodsport - Ignore Pain prevents x additional damage, and grants you y leech for 8 seconds.
Deafening Crash - Thunderclap deals an additional x damage and extends the duration of your demo shout on affected enemies by 1 sec.
Brace for Impact - Using Shield Slam increases your block by x and the damage of your Shield Slam by y for 9 secs. Multiple applications of this effect may overlap.
Reinforced Plating - Blocking an attack increases your strength by x for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.
Iron Fortress - Increases block by x, and blocking an attack deals y physical damage to the attacker. Critical Blocks deal double damage.
Callous Reprisal - Revenge deals x additional damage and reduces the damage enemies deal to you by y% for 8secs, stacking up to 3 times.
tight tree
I am just worried that during gaps in shield block we will take too much damage, esp on mythic bosses.
hot locust
i have 1 deafening crash, 1 iron fortress and 1 callous reprisal.
tight tree
Brewmaster looking more promising in that regard
hot locust
brew just looks goofy levels atm though
hot locust
Ideally id rather drop the callous for another Iron Fort though I think
Nah I'd rather have the block value.
jade tartan
Callous looks amazing for M+ doesnt it? š¤
jade tartan
makes sense!
hot locust
I think my ideal setup right now is 1x deafening crash and 2x iron fortress.
tight tree
Wish we had something that grant ability to block x% magic damage for y seconds or sth
hot locust
we'd be OP as fuck with magic block.
not gonna lie
that'd just be straight busted.
also thats what IP does :^)
Just has a threshold
tight tree
As a replacement to IP i mean
main vault
Spell Reflect is blocking magic tho
main vault
Yeah no chance in hell
hot locust
I kinda wish bloodsport gave more leech than it does.
It might actually be kind of cool to use if it did.
Still probably wouldnt beat Iron Fortress though. higher ilvl IF pieces give like 4-6% block DR.
merry cave
I just wish there was consistency regarding stacking traits
some stack all effect,s some stack none and some stack bits of it
hot locust
case by case basis is really the only way to balance them well.
I just wish it was clear what did/didnt stack more easily.
merry cave
Yeah i agree, but it also goes aginst their general dumbing down of gear choices
basically foces some people to trial and error and everyone else to hit up wowhead etc
tight tree
Absorbs feel un-warrior-ish to me, so i though we could have incorporated magic mitigation in block instead š
But yeah would be OP with current Blizz ideology
And ofc everything should be blockable š
Orc can dream
junior igloo
We need a way to make rage useful. Our gameplay revolves around generating rage as our resource. A good player uses Shield Slam and Thunderclap on cooldown, resulting in more rage. What would be the point of it if IP was removed?
tight tree
I would take enraged regeneration š But then we will be like druids, but better
junior igloo
Frenzied regeneration has a cooldown. How would more rage benefit you?
Even if you tuned it "just right" so that perfect play would only give you just enough rage to use SB and the heal on CD, it would quickly break in different situations (AoE, better gear etc.)
Not to mention that getting angry making my wounds close seems to make a lot less sense than ignoring and shrugging off half of the enemy attacks.
hot locust
Or just keep it the way it is, because it's fine.
broken kite
disagree
hollow pine
glad i didn't main prot during legion, played monk and bdk and they boring to me now. prot is fun for me
hot locust
plenty of people like having more proactive and planned mitigation than reactive.
hollow pine
it's all perspective
hot locust
Welcome to every tank.
broken kite
lol.
hot locust
Doesnt matter what you play you wont last very long in BFA without some assistance.
broken kite
whatever lala
hot locust
Really good discussion, glad we had it.
lots of good points made.
Really made me rethink my stance.
undone sun
broken kite
im not here to change your stance
jade socket
@hot locust whatās your stance on milk though?
vocal nimbus
milk with pizza?
hot locust
Delicious.
undone sun
and what about pizza milk?
hollow pine
milk n cookies, sign me up
hot locust
Acceptable but kinda freaky.
broken kite
š·
broken kite
š¾ š® š° šŖ šø
hot locust
@jade socket what flavor milk you like best though?
undone sun
š
hollow pine
stay away from tauren milk guys
undone sun
#1
hot locust
Agreed, Thyme.
main vault
The notion all tanks need self sustain is a joke
Could take away Last Stand or Shield Wall and add it in though
hot locust
dont take away my buttons! :(
main vault
That's the level of change that would have to happen to add it though since everyone wants it lol
hot locust
Especially not for that poor of a reason.
main vault
You can't have all the CDs in the world AND self sustain
hot locust
That was Legion, you just missed it dood.
Now we gotta make friends with healers again.
undone sun
oh god...
kind mirage
Can the "proving yourself" tankibg challenge still be done in prepatch ?
gilded wigeon
You mean the mage tower? Then no
kind mirage
No the one with waves
kind mirage
Aj, so it will come back ?
hot locust
Yeah
kind mirage
Ok thanks
compact mirage
Do you guys have problem with being rage capped? I tested on dummy some time yesterday and with all the procs and free Revenge I hardly find the time to use IP. Let alone even Devastate.
strong forum
That's just cuz of warmode/belt
strong forum
Then you're doing something wrong tbh
undone sun
it's very uncommon to be capped on ST
silk portal
How does Warmode affect Rage gen?
undone sun
lower cd on demo shout
strong forum
^
silk portal
Ah
compact mirage
I found this rotation wise. With IP now being on the GCD how do you factor it in? https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-pve-tank-rotation-cooldowns-abilities
amber siren
What do you mean? If you need the damage absorption you put it up
compact mirage
Avatar > Demo > SB > SS > TC > REV (free) > (IP) > Dev ... sort of like that?
amber siren
From the guide: Something very important to note is that Ignore Pain Icon Ignore Pain is on the global cooldown. You cannot freely cast it like you can Shield Block Icon Shield Block. This means you have to fit it into the rotation where it makes the most sense. If you were to add Ignore Pain to the ability priority, it would look like this:
Cast Ignore Pain Icon Ignore Pain if you are at risk of dying and need the immediate survivability.
...
Cast Ignore Pain Icon Ignore Pain.
Cast Devastate Icon Devastate.
Essentially, Ignore Pain Icon Ignore Pain should be used in place of Devastate Icon Devastate when smoothing out damage, however it is your #1 priority if you are at risk of dying (assuming you have the Rage to cast it).
kind urchin
I would like to point out the fact that above all else Demo Shout is a damage reduction on a short cooldown. No guides seem to understand that. They always tell you to use it on cooldown. I will continue to use it as a DR cooldown because it's very effective.
amber siren
There's no point holding DS if you have BS unless you're saving it for a specific ability that you can't use other cooldowns on
Idk what you're talking about
BV even*
main vault
You can use it on cool down and it still be effective as a defensive
You just have to fit it into your play
twilit pebble
Miss the syngery between legendary bracers and ignore pain tho. That's the main difference, if you were a god in legion, you should be able to be in BfA aswell
main vault
It's crazy that guide try to help you obtain better play. Should just do what we want
twilit pebble
You either have a tanking mindset or you don't. Reroll to a Monk or Drood if you want to have the top tier tank class. I am sure some bosses will be almost impossible with warrior tank - if you're not familiar with raid externals
ember arrow
??
signal plover
š¤
compact mirage
?
ember arrow
amber siren
where tf did that come from
signal plover
Sco vid is strong with this one
ember arrow
Dps=surv
main vault
No boss will be impossible with any tank. Wtf bullshit was that
ember arrow
Whats a tanking mindset
signal plover
Demo shout with BV is about the rage gain not just dmg/DR. You use it on cooldown to have high RPS gain
ember arrow
If u dont do enough dps u force othee tank to play suboptimally
amber siren
i don't understand if meme or what
ember arrow
Ye right
amber siren
kind urchin
To mitigate as much damage as possible while maintaining threat and positioning accordingly. Do as much damage as you can but not at the expense of your primary objective.
That's a tanking mindset.
ember arrow
No
signal plover
Ooo someone put that on a coffee mug
sick sentinel
anyone knows when the prepatch quests will start?
main vault
Only to mitigate enough to kill the boss
amber siren
@sick sentinel After weekly reset
sick sentinel
still no quest
signal plover
Too early ya
ember arrow
Eu?
main vault
Reset isn't for another 2 hours
west vigil
my head hurts from reading this tanking mindset convo
sick sentinel
me warrior me no intellect xD
signal plover
Til u get buff
sick sentinel
orc smash
@sick sentinel has failed his Perception check. Takes 4 mental damage
rolled a mighty 1
The natural 6 must have been on the GCD
signal plover
At least u rescued chat from a silly discussion
ember arrow
Xd
main vault
Idk i wanna meme some more
sick sentinel
PepeHands
undone sun
ember arrow
meme
signal plover
Plznoban
sick sentinel
Dude the Warbringer short was epic
arctic sedge
That Should be posted in the mage Discord fam
ember arrow
this channel becoming same as #blood
sick sentinel
No way. Pirate warrior mogs
Jaina can do whatever. I just wanna be a pirate warrior lol
arctic sedge
When they gonna show a prot warr in a short thing
signal plover
@ember arrow this is what happens during pre patch when ppl are 100% done with an expansions shit
sick sentinel
After yesterdayās hot fixes raiding might at least be enjoyable until BfA
tight tree
I tried guardian and brewmaster in mythic antorus, not warrior (yet)
Was no fun
Before hotfixes tho
main vault
Raiding before BFA 
sick sentinel
Lol
main vault
Orc
tight tree
Told you i am simple š
cosmic cargo
wrong fantasy universe for orks
main vault
Lol
tight tree
Well i kinda wish we had some orks aesthetics in WoW, more thrashy and bulky
cosmic cargo
well
cosmic cargo
early warcraft orcs were copy pasted from WHF greenskins
they just changed they on later games
cosmic cargo
*them
tight tree
Some variants look straight savage
merry cave
lol 23 kara is fun -_-
lapis gazelle
MonkaS
ember arrow
upper or lower
somber dragon
so friends
chrome harbor
upper has shade of medivh
somber dragon
i got thinking while reading #arms
and posted a bit in there too...
but... on my bdk and vdh there's a talent for a big absorb
for magic hits
(i'd assume)
i feel like i don't know what to do in those situations on my prot warrior
i feel stupid solid against physical damage coming in
chrome harbor
IP and clench your asshole, that or use spell reflect/CDs
somber dragon
(not saying no options, just not sure how to use them!)
chrome harbor
Legion dungeons aren't tuned for the BfA tanking philosophies Blizz has with magic hurting
somber dragon
IP feels stupid weak
chrome harbor
case in point, upper kara and shade
somber dragon
in my gear
how's it look pre-raid on beta?
like i have shit ilvl on live, like... 164, and with battle shout up, IP is 4k and my life is 26k š
uneven mason
164 is uh yeah really bad to try and make a gauge of how something feels š
ember arrow
but yea
somber dragon
i agree
ember arrow
we got alot of cds
uneven mason
pre raid on beta we're solid
ember arrow
thats kidna the point
uneven mason
So Slay since your low ilvl guessing you're new to warrior in the legion sense.
We haven't changed a whole lot, beyond slowing down
somber dragon
i was a warlock most of the expac before having to quit due to... computer issues right before argus
uneven mason
but our basis of gameplay, our "niche" is to use CDs rotationally to smooth out overall damage taken (EHRPS)
Warriors are fully predictive/proactive/preventive tanks
somber dragon
my main alt was a bdk, but i've always wanted to be a warrior since day one of warcraft, it just never worked out with the guilds i was going for
but since gf and I are going super casual this time around, we're both playing what we like the most (: and hunting for a home too lol
uneven mason
We use CDs before the damage happens, the outsider to that at times is last stand as it is a large heal + HP Boost so its our OSHIT button, but with bolster it gives us 100% Block for 15seconds as well, so it is both a reactive and proactive tool
But, with Anger Management, our CDs are available VERY frequently, so if you're feeling squishy chances are its because you're sitting on CDs too long
grim prism
Smoothing damage taken is TMI not EHRPS
somber dragon
i didn't feel bad in a heroic at that ilvl, but... i didn't expect to
uneven mason
its what you're smothing
smoothing
I mean overall you're lowering the burden on the healer š
grim prism
It doesnt really matter in the context of this conversatiom
somber dragon
so the fact that the gf is playing a holy pali with a good chunk of externals will actually be a good synergy as well?
grim prism
Im just nitpicking lol
uneven mason
yes Slay
somber dragon
sweet, i like when things work out like that
uneven mason
Warriors in 340 gear on beta had around 95% uptime on some sort of mitigation
add in an external
grim prism
Cotanking with your GF may bring some interesting synergy of its own
uneven mason
and you've got 100% uptime on something
somber dragon
she's healing
uneven mason
Well, from experience
having your SO as a healer while you tank does not always spell synergy, or bliss
somber dragon
no, it doesn't for progression stuff
but we're gonna be casual m+/pvp/fill-in raiders for whatever guild we get in
uneven mason
I used to co-tank with my wife
before we lived together
I mean, when I first met her, and that was ok
somber dragon
she's thrown cats at me during raids when we healed together (:
grim prism
Hahaha
uneven mason
Yeah so its like
uneven mason
She listened to me back then, if I had criticism, she'd listen, cause I was the raid leader, but after we got married, nevermind that I was leading the #3 guild on the server when we met, obviously that wedding ring makes her my equal in tanking knowledge and she can counter my opinion that it was her screw up with "Well if you hadn't been yelling at me I wouldn't have messed up"
chrome harbor
I mean its always encouraged for warriors to try and make friends with healers, especially if they like to pvp
somber dragon
she's the pvp-er, i'm the m+ junkie
so we're going to enjoy each other's habits a bit more this expac
and warrior makes the most sense to me to do that if she's set on healing
somber dragon
i'm honestly having "fun" leveing my newcow warrior right now
except for how slow it is even with heirlooms, but that's not a discussion for here š
chrome harbor
yea its a readjustment with leveling being trivial for so long, and allied races encouraging ppl to level new toons
somber dragon
but he's gonna look glorious in plate with bigass weapons of murderation!
uneven mason
Leveling is still trivial
Although, I do have to say post 8.0 Fury is definitely the best warrior spec for leveling right now.
strong forum
sigh is it really?
somber dragon
definitely having a blast as fury
uneven mason
I wouldn't say hours
but its faster
arms has that feast/famine problem
like once yo ustart dropping mobs you're ok
but getting the first one down in a pack
can be rough
Fury I was able to blow things up really fast
uneven mason
I wasn't one shotting anything even with my character copy and 990 artifact
chrome harbor
I know fury has more self healing then arms, so maybe that makes it better in 110-120
ill still be leveling as arms tho
uneven mason
that is part of it
somber dragon
tons of self healing, and as long as i'm not stupid about carrying rage, nonstop murderation
merry cave
Levko was upper, got it but only 1 chest. Medivh is rough the rest was a joke
somber dragon
execute building rage is ++good
lapis gazelle
Are you meant to level on a DPS spec?
strong forum
Ima try to do some level tests, I heard some peeps have 110-120 down in 4hrs
In the current iteration
tiny mason
guys, i've been playing prot for the past 7 years (except legion was an alt)
it looks much better than legion now
strong forum
That's rare
tiny mason
thinking of maining it again
strong forum
For people to not complain about it :D
tiny mason
i dont say its perfect, but this one is much better than legion prot
i play all tanks, and i see warr rotation to be good compared with others
chrome harbor
we have 3 weeks until raids and M+ open after launch? probably not gonna rush it
tiny mason
/kiss into the fray
wide juniper
I wonder how mad I'll be during launch week. Took that week off of work.
sick sentinel
the azerite traits stack? from diferent pieces
cosmic cargo
they do
tiny mason
any good WA for all prot spells and block/IP?
wide juniper
Well, you can hodge podge them, but I used Afenars. You can find it on wago.io
I changed it up to fit my style a bit more
uneven mason
bujaber 
south yarrow
Not all azerite traits stack do they?
Like the one for DH that reduces CD on sigils when enemies are affected by it, that doesn't stack
weary python
So I'm coming back to wow, and I'm going to be playing a warrior initially. Having never played one before, are there any updated weak auras or tell me when's for protection? Or is it just a matter of learning the rotation?
vocal obsidian
How u handle misseles from medivh wizh new sr now
*with
Its hitting gard af
hard
stable bear
sloot used to have a good set of WA"s that seem to mostly work except the IP portion
cosmic cargo
sloot's UI hurts my eyes
astral notch
@vocal obsidian use it on the last tick of the channel
uneven mason
to avoid the debuff
vocal obsidian
aye
uneven mason
You basically go through your CDs, and hope he dies before you run out
depends on the key
should be easier this week tho
Since we're prepatch you could have used pants
which would give you another SR
stable bear
@cosmic cargo ya his UI is aids....but the small circular WA's he has for tanking i think are nice, compact, and informative
weary python
Would a tank need to keep backpedal bound? I don't backpedal and I know it's frowned upon by the community as a whole, but don't you risk getting hit in the back in a PvE situation by not having it in certain circumstances?
wide juniper
Why is it frowned upon?
rapid trench
its bad in pvp and its bad when trying to get out of bad
wouldnt say it gets frowned upon to have it bound
wide juniper
Well, yeah, it's not good to get out of bad things, but if you need to reposition, why would that be bad
rapid trench
it isnt
uneven mason
Now if you're a tank to not have stuff kicking you in the back (thus bypassing shields)
you can backup
wide juniper
Okay, just making sure I wasn't missing anything
uneven mason
it can backfire tho
since mobs pathing is all sorts of irritating since the change they made in SoO
weary python
I was thinking of trying out the QWE movement stystem instead of WASD, since i'll be mainly PvPing and M+ this time instead of raiding. But I'm not sure if I'll NEED backpedal for m+
uneven mason
mobs will just occasionally decide that you stepping back meant it should run around like an idiot and then endup behind yo uagain anyway
wide juniper
Yeah, I get that @uneven mason
I wouldn't remove it from my bindings, but that's just me.
I use it enough to small position changes.
uneven mason
yeah I don't see a point to it?
if you're hurting for hotkeys
that you've gotta remove movement keys
wide juniper
Yeah, that'd be rough.
uneven mason
well, you're playing a different warrior than me
cause I got everything bound to my mouse
and have room to spare
wide juniper
I'm pretty full, but I could make some adjustments for sure
But I also don't really use 5-7
weary python
I don't do MMO mice that's why. I'm contemplating the rival 500, but I'm not sold on it yet, that's the most amount of buttons on a mouse that I'd want to deal with.
I just haven't played WoW since 7.1.5, and I'm trying to set everything back up now and I figure it's the best time to try and get a decent set up, rather than relearning muscle memory again in 2-3 weeks
uneven mason
Like, the Rival 500 has more buttons on it than the HexV2 that I use
I just have the 7 side with modifiers
you don't need a whole lot as Warrior
wide juniper
I'd love to see both of your bindings
weary python
I don't have any right now lol. I played Frost mage in nighthold, and enhancement in EN.
I'm about to load the game up and start messing with bindings actually, since last night was getting the UI/ addons up and running
grim prism
@weary python tldr you will need backpedaling as a tank, especially one who relies on frontal blocks as primary mitigation
Unless you want to strafe everywhere while keeping your aggressors in your frontal arc
But good luck doing that while facetanking a raidboss when you need to make a small 5yd backward movement for positioning sake
Its very possible but itd be a pain in the ass to have as your only option lol
uneven mason
Aggramar so folks don't go into orbit +++
grim prism
Also keep in mind that you can use modifier macros to condense your keybinds
uneven mason
yeah like I was saying my keybinds are 1-5 for the most part with ctlr and alt mods
grim prism
On just a mouse with a scrollwheel and two side buttons, you can bind ten abilities without having to give up Lclick, Rclick, or the scrollwheel
kind urchin
I love steelseries mice. The original rival has been my favorite mouse ever.
uneven mason
I used the old G5 mouse (best gaming mouse ever) only had 2 side buttons, but I had abilities tied to them heh.
8*
grim prism
Really like the corsair m65 as long as we are fanboying, but the three mouses plugged above are all functionally almost identical
Two side buttons with very little in the way of spergy frills
kind urchin
Unless you get into sensor accuracy and innate mouse acceleration.
grim prism
In which case the m65 is obviously superior :smug:
But yeah, the point is you dont need 12 buttons on the side of your mouse
strong forum
I unbound my back pedal key in cata, haven't needed it since
kind urchin
I only use two side buttons. I use an Orbweaver though.
strong forum
If I want to move backwards I just strafe
uneven mason
I hold onto that 7 key on my V2
cause I backpedal
I don't keyboard turn tho
So you know
at least 50%
grim prism
I have all my shit comfortably bound in a way that makes sense to me, and I still have Q and E bound to rotate for when I'm too lazy to play with two hands
Mod macros are the way
uneven mason
cause I have decidedly more gorillaish hands than other folks
strong forum
Hah
uneven mason
and my wife who has considerably smaller paws, looks at my macro setup and gets hand cramps just thinking about doing them
grim prism
The best keybinding scheme is the one you can consistently use without killing yourself or somebody else
uneven mason
^
grim prism
As long as you arent clicking your bars
uneven mason
fffff
weary python
Ya I'm gonna have to play around with the bindings, I've never tanked before so I'm gonna have to see how the ebb and flow of abilities plays out, and see what works and what doesn't. I'm also going to be taking arenas and such seriously, so I'll have to find bindings for arena targeting and such too. Keybindings are always the most annoying part of coming back to the game for me imo.
static pilot
Quick question: how do antoran dogs feel to tank now?
uneven mason
that was always my #1 trigger back when I was a raid leader
I'd get a new raider applying for a spot, and they'd be a bit behind the curve
so I'd ask em what their keybindings were
and they were like "BUT IF I USE THE MOUSE TO TURN HOW DO I CLICK ON REND?" (back when rend was bad)
Did they fix the damage on dogs just today?
haven't tanked them yet myself
they were a nightmare lastweek
grim prism
Last I heard it was still a shitshow but I admittedly havent tried
arctic harbor
Heard ppl were using 3 tanks
static pilot
yeah, we barely got them down with two very overgeared tanks on hc last week
skipped them on the alt run
uneven mason
4 tanks 3 still died
arctic harbor
Oh shit
static pilot
we used a blood DK and a paladin - the DK finished it with 11k selfhealing average ^^
uneven mason
Warrior held them both for the last 3% "Warriors need a buff"
But yeah, they're rough
HC dogs mulching 250 (full mythic) tanks
prior to the prepatch they'd hardly break IP more than once a fight
static pilot
I saw that the singed debuff was reduced significantly
uneven mason
yeah
grim prism
static pilot
and earlier in the week (Thursday I think) they nerfed a lot of "boss swap mechanics"
uneven mason
thats because it was one shotting healers/DPS during his little cleave fest
static pilot
I wouldn't normally consider the dog breath a boss swap mechanic but it certainly hurts enough to qualify now
uneven mason
on heroic doggo grabs a few people and holds em in the air and slaps them with the same debuff the tanks get
was just flat out one shotting peoplke