FB was worse than wotn
#protection
somber dragon
it was on a row where it was the best outside of a few niches though
ember arrow
will of necropolis
was the superior talent
it gave 19% ehp
FB gave 20% at max stacks
somber dragon
i can see that in progression beyond what i would push generally
somber dragon
(i are casual... might be hardcore m+ and pvp with the gf this expac)
yeah, that's what i have on mine now
idunno, it just feels really off to me after how godlike i ended up liking legion's bdk with good legendaries (even at super low haste before bone shield)
robust urchin
That gotta be the most unsettling screenshot I have ever seen
ember arrow
ok
stark sage
relative tank power is being toned back for bfa, a lot of people arent happy with the decision but it is a design direction done purposefully
somber dragon
and i understand that completely, i'm all for it honestly
somber dragon
i just don't like how they've done it for bdk personally (: just a subjective thing
stark sage
my buddy is a bdk main and he is salty about it
broken kite
Crit blocks don't show any differently in the combat log (compared to normal blocks) do they?
stark sage
his biggest complaint is pruning ¯_(ツ)_/¯
somber dragon
it's "fine" just feels like fucking in the back of a volkswagen 😄
ember arrow
i mean
modest crest
I’ve heard a lot of people say they are either fine/understanding of changes or they are disappointed.
robust urchin
I don't mind being toned back but I'm struggling with the flow of playing with the gcd
somber dragon
i'm personally really torn between warr/dh as my main to do m+ and pvp mostly at this point
modest crest
I am slightly disappointed with some of the changes to prot war but I’m ok with them so far and idk of any tank class that’s on track to be OP at this point
ember arrow
monk
wooden lark
yeah monk
ember arrow
stagger 88% of dmg
robust urchin
Monk and Bears obviously
stark sage
@somber dragon warrior is up in the air as far as m+ utility, but DH looks to be good
modest crest
Needing a healer is a change from what I’m now used to but I mean...that’s kinda how it should always be anyway
robust urchin
The problem is not the tanks adjusting to it but the healers
ember arrow
😴
modest crest
Oh yeah it was fun lol. I had countless of those
robust urchin
I remember BC and Wrath were warriors were very heal dependent
But do healers remember?
stark sage
healers will be fine adjusting, to them we are just another spot on their raid frames
ember arrow
@wooden lark never forget legion DS
stark sage
i've helped weaker guilds progress heroic with my disc priest, and believe me sometimes you have to pay a ton of attention to the tanks
undone sun
Indeed
wooden lark
wait what
stark sage
its not really a step up in difficulty
robust urchin
I did some keys the other day and i barely stayed alive
wooden lark
u got 41m absorb on a bdk?
somber dragon
i feel like bdk is missing something like how SB increases SS damage to make it a be more "fun"
robust urchin
It felt like the healer didn't healed me at all at some points
wooden lark
ah 12m heal lol
wooden lark
jesus
ember arrow
hp
broken kite
b a l a n c e d
modest crest
My guild pushes heroic so I don’t have to worry about cutting edge and having to be a certain class to min max. I’ve always enjoyed prot war gameplay vs pally and DK so as long as we can be viable (sounds like that’s not an issue) then I’m good
modest crest
Lol yep. Speaking of which. Do we have an azerite trait to replace NF or are we going to lose it?
somber dragon
i'll be finding a home in a similar position Kenteras (:
stark sage
@modest crest bolster and last stand replace NF in a sense
wooden lark
how many stacks u had on that scythe?
ember arrow
my record is 23 on hc
stark sage
i liked NF, on demand crit block was amazing
wooden lark
nice i dont think i got past 14
undone sun
Sure, when block worked NF was busted
modest crest
It saved me a few times for sure
undone sun
That was one of the issues though, it only worked on blockable damage unlike other tanks artifact abilities
The channel was another
ember arrow
@junior ivy
robust urchin
I fondly remember pressing it and then get knocked back by something
modest crest
I did hate the channel
robust urchin
Amazing
pure kraken
Why is this macro no longer working?
#showtooltip
/cast Intercept
/cast Victory Rush
charge works, but victory rush doesn't
ember arrow
because both are on gcd
broken kite
@ember arrow 😦
pure kraken
they put visctory rush on the GCD???
stark sage
🤔
junior ivy
@ember arrow hate hate hate
undone sun
It's always been on gcd
pure kraken
that macro worked fine in legion
stark sage
they put intercept on the GCD
modest crest
I’m pretty sure like almost everything is on GCD now anyway
broken kite
intercept wasnt on gcd
somber dragon
intercept wasn't
pure kraken
ah ok
undone sun
¯_(ツ)_/¯
robust urchin
You just gotta gove it more THYME to get used it to it touchstone
broken kite
feelsbadman
modest crest
It definitely slowed game play down, but maybe that means something new will fill the gap
undone sun
Preaching to the choir
undone sun
There's word that even internally blizzard isn't happy, but were forced
stark sage
the GCD change isnt what slowed prot down, mostly its the RFDT change
ember arrow
@somber dragon one more thing, tombstone is really good
robust urchin
By whom?
ember arrow
vs large hits
robust urchin
Ion?
ember arrow
used it on maw 24
undone sun
No
somber dragon
i can see that too
junior ivy
Omg are people doing +24s since pre patch
robust urchin
Honestly why even change rage to what it is now
broken kite
DS and IP on gcd feels just simply BAD. Avatar (in place of BC) feels bad as well, but it's not as much of a big deal
ember arrow
o/ @junior ivy \
wooden lark
it just makes it less fun, i hope blizzard recognises it
junior ivy
Howwwww
broken kite
nice
ember arrow
🤔
stark sage
ember arrow
banned
robust urchin
Doing high keys is easy tbh
undone sun
Rip
robust urchin
Just don't die and do lods of dps
undone sun
No questions will get answered now
ember arrow
was very enthusiastic thyme
junior ivy
I did cos 17 and wiped 8 times on last boss
modest crest
I haven’t done a ton of research on other tank classes niche benefits to raids. How do we stack up against the others with our 10% atk buff? I’m blanking on the other stuff
undone sun
😏
broken kite
yikes
junior ivy
But I 3 cheated votw 15
ember arrow
@junior ivy it uhh. depends on the group
broken kite
all warriors have the buff
junior ivy
Chested
robust urchin
If a raid really wanted the battle shout they could just settle for a dps warrior
wooden lark
^
broken kite
which most have
ember arrow
isnt 10% AP just basically 10% dmg
modest crest
Ah didn’t know all specs had
undone sun
Indeed
broken kite
extra rallying cry is nice
robust urchin
Im sure even more guilds will
undone sun
Those raid buffs are usually class wide
stark sage
@modest crest its 10% AP, and its a very powerful raid buff, in addition we bring rally. you could argue block as a utility as well, being very powerful in situations where it works, and useless otherwise
broken kite
otherwise we bring less than before, cya inspiring presence
undone sun
Both dh have their buff
modest crest
It was fun having them again. I liked seeing buffs
robust urchin
They see scos video and disregard prot as dead memes
undone sun
Single handed levko proving prot is viable
wooden lark
i've seen scos video and im half disregarding warrior lol
undone sun
👌
junior ivy
Lol
undone sun
Lol
ember arrow
after runs
wooden lark
levko whats ur best run in m+
broken kite
im glad you got the participation numbers equivalent to other tanks levko, you're a legend
junior ivy
I hate that this sco guy says warrior sucks and makes everyone hate warrior
broken kite
ironically he loves warrior
stark sage
people think warriors are weak, them you come out with 50 mill scythe blocks 🙃
broken kite
his measure is just specific raid utility and AM uptime
which war is shit at in comparison
modest crest
My co tank has main choosing issues, I think he’s settled on pally finally but went from Druid to monk to DK to pally
broken kite
at least hes open about that
somber dragon
i have main issues too >.< lol
ember arrow
i knew this would come in handy at some point @undone sun
wooden lark
yeah me to
stark sage
yeah sco's opinions arent baseless, but people are dumb and take his priority lists as gospel, and the bottom of the list are regarded as meme tier garbage
robust urchin
My problem is sco is from the world first myth mentality and i enjoy being in a heroic guild
wooden lark
currently levelling druid/monk.. dungeons are overtuned tho so its slow lol
robust urchin
But most heroic guilds think they need the literal best tank
ember arrow
@wooden lark i think it was 25 hov
broken kite
must be unlucky, ive never seen that nano :/
robust urchin
And watch all those "tank ranked" videos
broken kite
most just take what they can get tbh
robust urchin
I wish
wooden lark
my guild are heroic just now but want to start raiding mythic in bfa seriously
modest crest
I’m sure they won’t but I hope they keep raids <10 bosses so we can do stuff other than raid a team on both of our nights
stark sage
a lot of bad guilds dont look at the player when deciding what to recruit, instead they go off of class solely
wooden lark
so i think im gonna switch main but im not sure
junior ivy
i hate when people dont think warrior is best class and best tank
wooden lark
obv taken a bit of sco's video to heart in his opinion of warrior being worst for progress
ember arrow
my gm's opinion, i really like it
robust urchin
If i switch from prot as main it's because i don't like it anymore not because sco or kungen or whatever says it's bad
ember arrow
His categories are little bit arbitrary. Especially putting major cooldowns under the AM categories, when these two things are very different and their impact varies a lot between different fights. In addition, I think he has too much focus on permanent damage mitigation, where on most fights a tank will only be actively tanking slightly over half the fight. He also seems to really undervalue utlity. Now I understand his point here, in cutting edge progression utility can usually be offset by other players, where as damage mitigation cannot. Nonetheless, things such as grips/roar/raid buffs can be insanely impactful. The last note is that it seems like he includes key talents for some specs but not others, this is probably due to (as he said himself) lack of in-depth testing. His general tank ranking are probably fine, but the rating is quite arbitrary and leaves out some things that should be relevant.
I'd probably agree that monk is the strongest tank. Druid seems to be a little bit overrated imo, it depends a lot on how important permanent physical damage mitigation is in the actual raid. I mostly agree with the Paladin and DK analysis. For warrior I think he underestimates how strong a permanently available magic damage mitigation (Ignore Pain) is. And as far as Demon Hunter goes, he doesn't mention that Feed the Demon is available which significantly increases the uptime of Demon Spikes (which is probably their biggest weakness). I'd probably say something like
Monk>Druid>Warrior>Paladin>DH>DK.
Although I think everything except monk could easily change order depending on how Uldir specifically turns out in requirements.
modest crest
That’s when you find a set m+ team and a guild that aren’t idiots and you just have fun together
ember arrow
regarding scos vid
broken kite
from what ive seen monk seems pretty good for... taking damage
junior ivy
why doesnt blizz give us something good to make us competitive?
ember arrow
undone sun
Holy wall of text
lusty grotto
because they want classes now to bring their utility and not their role
robust urchin
Finding a guild as a tank is already hard enough
lusty grotto
which is bs
wooden lark
"I think he underestimates how strong a permanently available magic damage mitigation (Ignore Pain) is." - - i feel like even though we are undergeared IP is gonna last like 2 seconds in mythic raids
junior ivy
well what utility do we have
wooden lark
at geared 120
broken kite
lol IP
lusty grotto
battle shout lol
broken kite
battle shout is not unique for prot
broken kite
20%..
modest crest
Yeah finding a guild was impossible for me. So I started one
undone sun
Just like marok kappa
junior ivy
im so bad at leading raids i used to form heroic nighthold pugs then be like "so does anyone wanna lead this" after we were full .
lusty grotto
yeah looking for guilds as a tank is kinda terrible
undone sun
Gotta get lucky
broken kite
join a guild as dps then try and get a shot to tank
robust urchin
I led raids a total of 3 times back in wrath icecrown heroic
I was not allowed to raid anymore after the third run
wooden lark
problem with tanking for a guild is u cant have any other classes that aren't tanks unless you got abundance of tanks in the guild which is never gonna be good
lusty grotto
ive led raids since wotlk but i can't shake my old guild or friends because pugs always leave a bad taste in my mouth
robust urchin
For being "to strict and not fun"
lusty grotto
i really don't want to lead because i can't monitor people well enough when tanking or so it has felt like in the past few years
i blame me getting old
i used to be great at it
junior ivy
its just extra pressure i dont want. like its bad enough i gotta "lead" m+s by being tank
lusty grotto
can't do it anymore
broken kite
Dungeons and Raids
The health and damage of all enemies in Emerald Nightmare, Trial of Valor, The Nighthold, and Tomb of Sargeras has been significantly reduced.
nice
robust urchin
Leading raids or guilds often feel like babysitting
wooden lark
@broken kite when was that done
lusty grotto
leading guilds is kinda easy except for the recruitment part
junior ivy
hargo when
lusty grotto
raids is... tiresome
broken kite
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21973195 @wooden lark
lusty grotto
something i'm not looking forward to when i get off work
broken kite
may not be in effect yet
junior ivy
is selling +15s still a viable gold making strat right now?
i havent seen anyone in trade selling them today
do people still; buy tyhem?
them
wooden lark
nah
modest crest
I run the guild but have a RL so I don’t have to do that mess. Don’t have time to research that much. Recruiting isn’t horrible in a heroic guild with people engaged. The last few months have been tough with everyone going on break. We have a solid 20-25 raid team atm so I’m happy with our projected start
wooden lark
weekly chest doesnt give good gear
ember arrow
there are idiots that buy chromatic sword
wooden lark
and its the end of an xpac so its a waste of money for anyone buying
ember arrow
so u deffo can sell +15
junior ivy
I WANT THAT SWORD
ember arrow
why though
junior ivy
now everyone is farming it
wooden lark
is it in the game right now?
wooden lark
where's it dropping
junior ivy
a rare mob drops it
wooden lark
ah ok
junior ivy
spawns every 2 hours i think
gaunt coyote
Why would you farm it when people are gonna panic sell them?
wooden lark
cos i wanna panic sell it
ember arrow
i escaped runescape to not stand still and farm stuff
wont go back to do that in wow
junior ivy
id farm it to use it, not to sell it
robust urchin
I made over 180k selling belt buckles
robust urchin
The best thing is they don't even work
gaunt coyote
its like a japanese dango
wooden lark
and it looks so dull
robust urchin
😂
wooden lark
wish i had jumped on the boost bandwagon a while ago my guild leader made 7m gold boosing +15s
robust urchin
I wanna start doing that in bfa
ember arrow
battle for quality
gaunt coyote
you can make millions in 20 minutes selling wow tokens 🤔
wooden lark
cant afford wow tokens i got rent to pay lol
wooden lark
feels like cheating buying gold as well
lusty grotto
why would you want to pay 20 bucks lol
ember arrow
because i can afford it easily?
real fossil
Easier/faster to make $20 than 200k
lusty grotto
so can i but why
ember arrow
i answered
robust urchin
Why do you need gols then?
lusty grotto
20 bucks better spent buying beer or cigarettes
ember arrow
me? @robust urchin
i dont need gold for anything
if i got enough to repair gear im good
robust urchin
Anyone who buys tokens and sells them for gold
junior ivy
i want gold for so many mounts
wooden lark
true actually i always obsess about getting rich in mmo's then realise i dont spend the currency on anything lol
ember arrow
im happy that gold in wow isnt something that important
wooden lark
got "rich" in gw2 and found the only thing i spent gold on was gambling
ember arrow
u can do all content without it
robust urchin
Oh you really need that 2 million spider mount that you never gonna ride on?
gaunt coyote
Runescape gold is where its at
junior ivy
i need that spider mount
gaunt coyote
can buy almost anything in that game
lusty grotto
no the spider, i want the 5M brontosaur
junior ivy
yeah i want that too
lusty grotto
screw the spider
junior ivy
AUCTION HOUSE ON A MOUNT
lusty grotto
because it looks cool and i can play the AH on it
ember arrow
i make my own flasks/pots
wooden lark
infinite timereaver is alpha mount
ember arrow
whats AH
wooden lark
and u cant buy it
junior ivy
like so often ill go to do a m+ and im like shit i forgot to buy azshari salds
lusty grotto
and there isn't anything else to spend gold on
gaunt coyote
I hope I can make money selling engineer consumables in bfa
gaunt coyote
They have all sorts of cool grenades now
wooden lark
the new engineer/blacksmithing mount looks cool in bfa
robust urchin
Can always sell gliders
gaunt coyote
and they have range weapon enhcnats again
robust urchin
Made like 30k selling them
wooden lark
ill find a pic
robust urchin
It's a goblin hovercraft
lusty grotto
AH is auction house
wooden lark
junior ivy
how can it be both
wooden lark
u gotta make 2 parts and combine them
lusty grotto
half the parts crafted by Engi
robust urchin
Do you need engineering to ride it
gaunt coyote
isnt there a new mimirons head reskin in bfa?
robust urchin
Honestly all ibreally want is for the gyrocopters to be usable by everyone
gaunt coyote
for engy?
robust urchin
I really want one but don't wanna do engi on my main
wooden lark
engi is good
gaunt coyote
Im gonna be abusing gunshoes on bfa launch
robust urchin
I've got an Ah in my garrison
wooden lark
no
gaunt coyote
but the rocket thing works
wooden lark
the goblin rocket boots thing?
undone sun
I have an ah in my Garrison on my hunter but never bothered on warr, universal language module is majority of the price
gaunt coyote
the one that spins you
undone sun
Yes
undone sun
Alliance and horde have their own separate hubs
wooden lark
i like that idea
junior ivy
whtas the name of the alliance city?
undone sun
I honestly don't remember off hand
wooden lark
less bs of flying over opposing faction area in dalaran an being ported out after a 10 second delay
junior ivy
i hope its pretty
undone sun
Boralus
weary notch
David Boreanz
undone sun
Zuldazar
undone sun
Mostly, yeah
wooden lark
does anyone know how much extra xp u get from random dugeons since the patch?
robust urchin
Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country?
They hotfixed in more exp
But no one really knows
wooden lark
it was 38k for my lvl 62 monk so im gonna try and see
uh
so its 39k on my now lvl 63 monk
shrug
wooden lark
lol is ur name offtank?
ember arrow
yes
wooden lark
nice
junior ivy
can someone tell me which addon this is
at the bottom.
the extra box
when i hover over an item
undone sun
Tsm or accountant
wooden lark
auctioneer/auctionator i think
ember arrow
@wooden lark Levko, Offtank, and Wowforums
junior ivy
i dont have tsm or accountant
undone sun
Or something of the sort
ember arrow
3 chars
junior ivy
must be one of the auction ones
undone sun
Yeah
wooden lark
im Historic, Whiteknight .. and farp who is my shitty rogue
like fap cos i thought that was funny years ago
ember arrow
also good names
i wanted to call him despacito first
but it was taken
and offtank will resonate with wowplayers even 10 years from now
junior ivy
it is auctioneer.
junior ivy
i dont want it there
cloud bone
Has Burning/Corrupting Maw from dogs ever been blockable?
ember arrow
always been
cloud bone
hmm
cloud bone
on logs it's not showing that I blocked the attack even tho I had shield block up maybe I'm reading it wrong
cloud bone
Can I link you my logs so that you can look cus I'm only seeing normal and absorbed damage
ember arrow
im not the best person to do that, have little xp
cloud bone
maybe i'm looking at it wrong
ember arrow
i can give it a go
lusty grotto
link your logs
you need to put your mouse over the bar
btw
to see blocks
iirc
@cloud bone
hollow gorge
Should we expect any major things to change for prot warriors, or are we going to be like we currently are in beta most likely?
undone sun
There is going to be some tuning going into uldir but no telling how severe
hollow gorge
Oh well, Bye prot war I guess
vocal nimbus
bye
junior ivy
stop bein negative about prot warriors
hollow gorge
Then give me something positive about this spec?
junior ivy
ok. i will. um.
hollow gorge
Because as of right now there's nothing to be positive about comparing it to other tanks
junior ivy
thunderclap is a pretty cool ability
tbh i dunno but i think we are okay
we are not terrible
forest fern
you have a fairly broad allrounder toolkit that others don't have so much, also you're not seeing it now with these bosses but with the BFA "design" philosophy you will destroy other tanks on taking long duration physical damage which tends to be the case in general with both the shield plate tanks, just haven't had as much of a use for it in the last couple expansions
junior ivy
im dying to do a m+ or somethimng
vast osprey
The one thing that prot warriors excelled at in Legion was taking physical damage. It just so happened that a lot of the raid bosses toward the end did a bunch of magic damage so their practicality diminished. With the changes to magic damage mitigation to tanks across the board in BFA, prot warrior becomes a lot more appealing to raids and dungeons. Just my thoughts going into BFA. At least that's how I sleep at night.
hollow gorge
We might have a alright toolkit, doesnt change the fact we're average for raid and absolutely horrible when it comes to M+
hollow gorge
Yes?
sick sentinel
no
sick sentinel
no but i played live its good i havent seen any problem with it exactly what we expected
vestal fossil
We may need a healer more than most but with bolster for a nice heal and shockwave trash is ez. Plus popping avatar and smashing TC is way fun. I’ll be running brew with prot alt.
sick sentinel
i disagree with more healing needed we mitigate damage more when other tanks take damage to their face harder just because we dont have self-sustain doesnt mean we suck and need healing
we wont know everything untill 8.1 and specs will get more tuning before raid and m+ release but as long as blizz dont fuck up bad which they probably wont every tank will be more then enough to tank both raid and m+ content
hollow gorge
Funny because this is the same " nah warriors will be fine" kinda mindset people had last prepatch
And look at warriors throughout legion
sick sentinel
legion prot was really good and fun except nighthold where you needed bracers for sure
hollow gorge
Are you, drunk
sick sentinel
i had good time in ToS and also in antorus
broken kite
Ok - the new warcraft log changes are cool.
vestal fossil
Comment above about physical in bfa raids and dungos. Plus we have spell reflect. Not a bad toolkit.
broken kite
sick sentinel
well if you think prot will suck and sucked legion then you should consider rerolling tbh
broken kite
👍
sick sentinel
and yeah logs changes are cool
hollow gorge
It's not really a matter of wanting to reroll, it's a matter of blizzard being unable to balance tanks
So it's the same comps being brought into m+ and mythic content
Mythic + take a look at the classes doing top keys, they haven't changed for the entire Xpac
vestal fossil
Tuning/azurite armor
sick sentinel
because they are designing classes around raids first
lusty grotto
uh oh troll spotted
vestal fossil
Yep
sick sentinel
and prot did good last 2 raids
lusty grotto
Lord Sco is in channel guys
vestal fossil
/kneel
lusty grotto
warries
sick sentinel
do you really except every tank to be perfect in m+ that doesnt make sense also as long as you play good you will do high keys i didnt had any problem until 23-24 keys
hollow gorge
Why sit and pretend warrior is and have been good for current xpac
sick sentinel
because its good its not ''perfect''
vestal fossil
Why you so worried about current content?
lusty grotto
it was pretty much a given when told NH was the only content that fucked us
and you went ARE YOU DRUNK
hollow gorge
I know, it's better passively to sit and watch the spec be a disaster for another few months lul
vestal fossil
🙄
lusty grotto
rofl
lusty grotto
it doesn't matter, everyone can play anything they like so im not sure what the point of all this is
hollow gorge
Well, doesn't even matter what people say, look at the facts
What tanks were brought into NH
Which were brought into Tomb?
Which were brought into Antorus?
sick sentinel
but listening to some guy in twitch that only played 2 tank spec out of 6 and listening to them or not playing the tank spec you are shitting on in high level doesnt make sense
tbh i solo tanked aggra basicaly took both flame rend and foe breaker stacks every technique tell me one other tank that can do that easily also i did 1m dps
junior ivy
prot warriors did everyhting other tanks could do
lusty grotto
so just because a lot of people do something, it means it's automatically better... gotcha
sick sentinel
tell me one other tank spec that could take 100m physical daamge every fucking technique it was fact blood dk preferred because of their grips which isnt something new
lusty grotto
narrator: it wasn't
sick sentinel
and yes grips are strong
hollow gorge
Alright, I did do all mythic content on my prot warrior, ( ecept EN)
I swapped to my druid for Kj because it was simply a joke
other than that yes, you CAN do it
sick sentinel
but just because you dont have it doesnt mean you will suck and get fucked we got the highest dps in aoe we had good self-sustain with bracers presence was great i dont know what else you want from a spec
sorry for language but you triggered me a bit with doomsaying for no reason tbh
junior ivy
unless youre planning on getting world first achievements or something it doesntm atter
ever spec is viable
hollow gorge
Doomsaying, nah
I'm triggered because it looks like we're gonna be at the bottom again for another Xpac
lusty grotto
we were never bottom
sick sentinel
well you made your decision as we wont be good hope you have fun in BfA
dont want to argue more nn
shut summit
vestal fossil
😂
opaque pagoda
DK’s seem to be roughly identical to in legion, whereas prot warriors currently play like shit due to the IP GCD change, so I don’t know
junior ivy
i kind of like how prot plays so far in pre patch 😦
opaque pagoda
I really liked prot in legion
sick sentinel
only thing that annoyed me is IP on GCD tbh
opaque pagoda
Well, I’m happy you feel that way, but can’t personally imagine why you do
junior ivy
well, having shockwave is fun
and i have a buff to givew people
and um
thats about it
sick sentinel
im fine with other changes it slows down the gameplay but alright
hollow gorge
I enjoyed playing prot in legion too, specially in Antorus, it just feels wrong what they did to us so far, imo
opaque pagoda
It does slow down the gameplay, but that’s not all it does
sick sentinel
i will miss t21 2pc it was fun
junior ivy
oh yeh i do miss t21
opaque pagoda
It imposes a very real requirement on choosing between rage generation and self-healing
hollow gorge
I think... removing IP from gcd and making devastator baseline would be incredible
devastator passive*
sick sentinel
too good to be true
hollow gorge
True
neat harbor
tanking in prepatch currently feels terrible tbh
hollow gorge
10% hp pff
neat harbor
this is coming from someone who tanked as a warrior in tbc, wotlk, cata, MoP and legion
vestal fossil
Or bracers baseline
neat harbor
it just feels slow and clunky rn
vestal fossil
What is your haste?
lusty grotto
ive been tanking since vanilla, and it doesn't feel clunky at all
neat harbor
feels like you wait so long on GCDs and rage that you rarely get to use many abilities.
lusty grotto
yeah its way slower but i don't miss spamming IPs
neat harbor
@ 24% haste
lusty grotto
it's still not a slow as spamming sunders on every mob
neat harbor
it feels similar to vanilla imo
lusty grotto
it doesn't
vestal fossil
Hmm I’m at about 31. With into the fray talent seems alright.
lusty grotto
youre exaggerating
ancient ore
I hated the ip spam
neat harbor
into the fray wont help you much in raids though
neat harbor
single target raid boss tanking is the real issue
lusty grotto
why wouldnt it?
lusty grotto
uhhh friendlies
sick sentinel
10 yards is long range tbh
lusty grotto
so same haste?
hollow gorge
into the fray works on friendlies too, I even think pets work, no?
lusty grotto
yes pets work
sick sentinel
yes pets work
neat harbor
does it really?
lusty grotto
read the talent lol
sick sentinel
yeah and 10 yards is enough for you to stand in front and get more haste from melee behind the boss
lusty grotto
pre patch change
lusty grotto
what were talking about
neat harbor
in that case Ill def use it
lusty grotto
makes deep wounds tick faster
lusty grotto
obligatory 
neat harbor
or, most of them rather
hey I play all three specs, Im trying lol
its a lot to absorb :x
hopefully they at least take IP off the gcd...
got my fingers crossed on that one
lusty grotto
eh we'll get used to it
neat harbor
I mean its tough, because you can once again "global: yourself right
like vari for instance
you can not plan for the GCD, try to spam IP and get one shot
you just have to plan out every IP now
lusty grotto
current content vs the rework
vestal fossil
DBM
neat harbor
so its up for bosses that punish you if you dont have active mitigation
yeah probably
lusty grotto
i mean at first i wasn't happy about the gcd thing
but yeah we'll get used to it
i think i'm more annoyed at the fact that a lot more than just 1 ability are on the gcd
and yeah i'm gonna be pissed if encounters aren't being designed with all the gcd shit in mind
opaque pagoda
I don’t think I’ll get used to it
I think I’ll just play a death knight instead
The change is fucking dumb
opaque pagoda
The best comparison is that IP is currently like blizzard took death strike and separated its damage and healing components into two skills
DK’s have major cooldowns on the GCD, like warriors
IP is not a major cooldown
It’s currently just useless
vestal fossil
It’s a filler.
opaque pagoda
It’s barely worth the rage, but you don’t have much else to use rage on
If it’s filler, then it should do damage or some shit
It’s completely unfulfilling
vestal fossil
You dump on ip or revenge. Just time better sb or something?
opaque pagoda
Revenge is free half the time
It blows my mind that anybody would try to defend it as a positive or meaningful design change
But fight that fight, by all means
vestal fossil
You seem very passionate. Good. Maybe they change it maybe they don’t. I have no issue using ip just before sb falls off.
lusty grotto
it won't matter if fights are designed with it in mind
vestal fossil
Pretty easy
merry cave
Anyone here managed a 23+ upper kara yet?
opaque pagoda
there are what, six other tanking classes?
there's no shitty game design decision that can't be papered over by adjusting the content
but that's not really the point
merry cave
i cant work out how were meant to live through 20k ticks of AM with sr not doing the whole duration
hollow gorge
I only did it 15 this week and it was bad enough since it's unscaled and buggy in there
merry cave
what a shame
lusty grotto
hand of the protector and frenzied regen are also on the GCD btw
shrug
spamming IP was never really fun
merry cave
IP isnt worth the rage 😂 😂 😂 😂
lusty grotto
yeah them adding all that shit tto the GCD is terrible, but spamming IP was bleh
just like spamming any other ability like Devastate before MoP
quiet cairn
How bad is Devastator right now? Is it so bad that it should just be ignored as a talent?
sick sentinel
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quiet cairn
I'm sorry.
sick sentinel
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junior ivy
lol aww i feel bad when people get told to check the pins
quiet cairn
That's fine. I should've read the pins and guides, it's all on me.
vestal fossil
Hmmm what if I’m at 0. 😭
lusty grotto
haha
undone escarp
I have to switch from fury to prot for tonight for out guild normal run. can i get a TLDR on how to play prot?
junior ivy
shield slam and thunderclap are main dps things, use revenge when it procs and is free, and devestate as filler.
keep shield block up as often as you can
ignore pain when needed
other defensive cds when needed
spell reflect for magic damage
have shield block up for ever corrupting/burning maw on dogs or you might die
undone escarp
thank you i aprpeciate it!
junior ivy
np maybe someone else can confirm what i said just to be sure lol
i'm not exactly some great mythic raiding tank or anything
undone escarp
just realized on first trash pack my weapon is super low
and i was waaaaay too squishy
merry cave
only thing i would disagree with is defensives as needed
demo shout and last stand should be used on cd
weary notch
well, not quite. You want to use LS like shield block - to fill in SB gaps
junior ivy
is this a new bfa thing?
merry cave
bolster talent
weary notch
you should be talenting bolster
merry cave
and it depends, on a long st fight, yeah you want to be using it to fill SB gaps
but something like hard hitting large group of m+ trash that wont live a lot past LS duration, use it early and spend rage on IP instead
and revenge
wicked salmon
whats easiest way to get 210+ gear
lusty grotto
argus
dull wagon
Wait for about 3.5 weeks and quest through BFA
lusty grotto
you do you
fossil basalt
amber siren
Is it still working? Wasn't proccing for me yesterday but I might just be dumb
Oh unless you mean how it's supposed to work and not the buggy version
fringe marten
Yes the T21 4pc adds a ton of IP atm. A temporary benefit at best.
warm plinth
I read on here earlier or yesterday that the 4pc was fixed now.
warm plinth
Eh. I wouldn't. Just because then you're wasting 2.5-3 seconds of Avatar
And there will be situations where you use Avatar when you're not pulling
dull wagon
Just have to make it habit - in a raid environment it will be off cooldown more often than once at the beginning of the fight
opaque pagoda
people were telling me that DK's and prot paladins felt clunky in the patch as well
but after playing them both, they feel almost identical
prot warriors definitely got fucked the hardest
amber siren
rallying cry is just a raid external so when your raid needs HP so for something like a bomb on argus for example
int shout is probs just M+ utility for interrupts
warm plinth
@junior ivy A good example of when to use Rallying Cry would be like the aoe on hatecoil in Eye on high keys; you can use it ahead of the cast to provide a buffer for your group
junior ivy
which boss is hatecoil again
warm plinth
The naga witch that spawns the blobs and does the static nova that you have to stand on the little pieces of land for
junior ivy
oh yeh her
rocky tiger
Hmm. T20 4pc is looking pretty nice about now
I can count the number of times I've actively cast IP since the patch on one hand. Just haven't felt the need.
little star
IP with the 4set is rly nice
junior ivy
im still in shoick that im supposed to use last stand on cd
tender imp
definitely not on cd, depends on a lot of stuff.
dull wagon
With bolster it should be used pretty liberally though right?
chilly brook
How important is it to keep haste gear over other gear that's like 5-10ilvls above what I have?
junior ivy
its scuh a good devensive, why not save it for when you need it?
like big spikes where your health goes way down
tender imp
it has a very short cd
no reason to sit on it
u can use it every 2-3rd pack
like avatar
sometimes its better to delay it for a huge pack u know is coming or a boss etc
its all about preplanning
warm plinth
@chilly brook Item level will always be better than stats. If it's 10 ilevels better on armor, use it. If it's 15-20 better on jewelry, use it. Trinkets depend on the scenario.
slow gull
is there any complete wa for prot i cant find any on wagio theres only 2 specific ones in pins
little star
im sure if you search prot warr on wago you can find some
valid finch
whats the state of prot warrior for bfa?
little star
👍
exotic rapids
What do you guys think about soul of the battlelord in the current state of the prepatch?
Wrist are kinda meh imho. We simply do not spent that much rage anymore and everything hits pretty hard that a small heal every X secs does barely count
the 33% Ragecost reduce on IP maybe worth it?
forest fern
honestly i'm not sure its that beneficial cause of how you use IP now with teh change to it being on the GCD. With current haste levels at least you don't have enough time to use IP tons and rage levels with the current gear also feel good enough that making that spell cheaper doesn't benefit you much. You spend extra rage atm on revenge and you have to have GCD's to do that also. It's like making a train lighter that is already backed up on the tracks won't make it move any faster
exotic rapids
Sounds plausible yes...hm might be going with belt+trousers. The extra spellreflect comes in handy at least in m+
maybe gloves again
forest fern
honestly most i've seen are using "utility" type legendaries now
forest fern
yep
atm with some of the scaling issues and the new way mitigation works in preparation for BFA content, an extra spell reflect couldn't hurt given how magic damage is hitting now.
exotic rapids
do you really get anything besides the stats from the wrists?
forest fern
i think its designed around the triumphant return of boss melee wrecking you more than them wrecking you with uber magic damage. Since most of the bosses in this expansion do that it will feel weak atm, so anything to up you defense against that couldn't hurt
tender imp
wrist is still decent in 5mans
exotic rapids
I flet like the healing barely counts
forest fern
rage gen is fine to 'fuel" the wrists, the issue is being in a safe situation to use most of your gcd's on IP or revenge to burn that rage fast enough to cause the healing
if you're safe enough then yeah wrists all the way, if you're getting pounded by big raid bosses then no they can't be fueled enough to help
forest fern
i mean its 4 weeks and none of them are outstanding atm so do what you want access to i'd say
it won't matter soon anyway
forest fern
i forgot to check which talents do you get access to now using the argus quest ring legendary
if its a changed tier maybe its useful now i forgot which tier it affects
exotic rapids
and the curcible bonus just got deactivated
forest fern
i mean the one that gives you a talent for free
exotic rapids
vengeance
glacial valley
belt is strong, even just against 1 target
exotic rapids
Belt is set for me too
civic narwhal
literally everything is on gcd
demo shout, ip, avatar
i start to lose threat cuz it takes me forever to pop demo avatar
exotic rapids
It really sucks, that you can´t just pop cds and go
maiden for example, untilk i got avatar+demo up the cast during heer shield is nearly over ^^
but i have to say, that after the 1st day i start getting used to it. you just have to make a gameplan ahead
you can´t just go with the flow anymore
static pilot
Gotta say I went from really enjoying my warrior to seriously considering swapping. Granted I used to play heavy repercussions so not having 95% shield block uptime is new to me but the current warrior.... I dunno. I feel like I'm desperately burning cool downs to cover shield block gaps, eventually I run out and then I'm dog food. Squishy is never a word I would have used to describe legion warrior but now... Ugh.
Tried out my (much worse geared) DK and his gameplay is basically unchanged, still feels solid
sturdy willow
i mean i dont understand why you would play heavy repercussions though, if you played anger management like just about everybody else i feel like the playstyle is alot closer now, just slower
main vault
With AM you can get 97% ish mitigation uptime at 20% haste, so coverage is fine
tender imp
feels like current prot is very cooldown dependent
strong forum
exactly
sturdy willow
thats just every tank tbh
strong forum
thats how prot plays now
strong forum
CDs arent something you arent supposed to touch ykno
main vault
That's why it has 174 cooldowns
static pilot
I tried anger management when it first came out but disliked the swinginess. Hr felt more stable
ember arrow
??
sturdy willow
so you jut played it poorly ?
ember arrow
Hr was objectively worse
sturdy willow
if you were having major swings playing AM you were just doing somethign wrong
tender imp
still its pretty bad design that u just flop if u dont have any cds on u
static pilot
I guess? I don't play cutting edge but I clear +20s and hc on a weekly basis, hr worked fine for that
main vault
Well since you can have basically 100% CD uptime that's not an issue is it?
strong forum
like other tanks
ember arrow
U dont just flop
ember arrow
Bosses dont cast tankbusters 100% of time
tender imp
dk zero cds?
strong forum
Monk has basically 0 cds
tender imp
wat
little star
DK and 0 cds LUL
sturdy willow
stop
ember arrow
Dk has ibf and vb
ember arrow
Drw is dps
sturdy willow
and blood mirror
ember arrow
No
little star
DRW is dodge mate
tender imp
blood mirror is gone
sturdy willow
i understand that
static pilot
DK active mitigation is death strikes, they have IBF, AMS, VB and dancing rune weapon.
sturdy willow
but we were talking about last wek no?
static pilot
They have plenty of cds but apart from VB they don't use them on CD, they save them for emergencies
sturdy willow
the only tank that has shitty CD's is DH tbh, a single target shield wall and a 3 min
ember arrow
No
main vault
So because you aren't playing Warrior correctly, it doesn't feel good. Makes sense.
static pilot
Fair enough, thanks for hearing me out.
sturdy willow
i mean theres no "hearing you out" you are trying to dispute math
ember arrow
I would love to see u do progres m imonar wit HR
main vault
Progress in 8.0 lulz
ember arrow
no when relevant
static pilot
I'm not disputing anything, I'm just giving my own subjective experience
main vault
You can't just pick one boss out of a raid and use it as an example. Saying HR was bad on one boss is not an argument
sturdy willow
you dont understand the meaning of the word subjective
static pilot
I enjoyed playing warrior, now I don't. I'm curious if I'm the only one who misses the survivability and play style of the legion warrior
little star
Or be like the Chinese team that progressed argus with a warr tank that used legs + HR
sturdy willow
you are giving what you believe to be an opinion, that is disputing proveable math
static pilot
'this feels bad to me'
sturdy willow
that is what we call feelycraft, aka crap
strong forum
thats the same as trying to ride stick without any knowledge ofc its gonna feel bad
main vault
That isn't all you said
You said War was squishy, that you have gaps in mitigation
That you run out if CDs to cover those gaps
sturdy willow
i mean you are coming into a place that is ran by the people who did the math, and refusing to except the math exists
main vault
And none of that is true
static pilot
Okay... Where did I refuse anything?
sturdy willow
the general conclusion based on what youve said from just about everybody else is "you were playing wrong" and you are just spouting feelycraft
the fact is HR was bad, the reason you think warrior is different now stylistically
comes down to that you were playing wrong before
static pilot
Warrior IS different now, the playstyle I used via talents is gone
sturdy willow
so you are now being more or less forced to play correctly
and it feels different, mainly because your way was bad
main vault
Wowplus says there isn't one way to play
sturdy willow
oof
fringe marten
With the pvp talent that reduces demo shout, Demo shout refreshes disgustingly fast now...it's close to a perma debuff on anything we fight.
static pilot
True, but pvp talents disappear in m+and raids :-/
fringe marten
Yeah...but in M+ you also get to spend so much rage it's refreshing fast again.
sturdy willow
@main vault did you bother to try to find wowplus on there server ranking btw?
fringe marten
Also this discord is not toxic.
ember arrow
