protection

[waxen talon]

whole concept of spam

this

[grim prism]

I mean over the course of legion

[waxen talon]

to reset another

is bs

but they fixed it same patch as they made devastator

by making revenge and clap do the exact same thign

Devaste might aswell be removed in current state tbh

[undone sun]

Some spam can be good, like t21.
But there's definitely a fine line of too much spam, and That's devastate

[waxen talon]

u press it so little

[grim prism]

Yeah, it feels like a true rotational filler now, not a useless spam button

[waxen talon]

but imagine if they brought just IP off GCD

sudenly u would press devaste a lot

t21 is good spam cuz it feels good

[prisma crane]

@chrome harbor that guy talking about how amazing devastate is is a huge reason i dont read those forums

[waxen talon]

devaste = ur noodle slapping

[grim prism]

Granted ive been playing wow again for all of six hours total since prepatch

[timid jay]

Think one of the distinctions of devastate vs SS spam is that SS actually feels good to press

Since its our main rage generator and it hits hard

Devastate just kinda sucks to press

[grim prism]

But yeah, >forums

[signal plover]

Plus it was 100% crits

[timid jay]

its the last and you only press it because you have nothing else to press

[undone sun]

Indeed Cosmo

[waxen talon]

and iht like a fucking truck

[undone sun]

Being impactful is huge

[prisma crane]

the spam from T21 was from important stuff, not filler

SS and IP spam

[undone sun]

But spam is still spam

[prisma crane]

IP spam could be reworked, but they still had purpose

[young iris]

Devastate works for Gauntlets, but I rarely use it as a rage generator in its current form. More of a filler

[waxen talon]

when a cooldown makes u go madly spam pressing irl

its a good cooldown

[timid jay]

Yeah Im not arguing t21 prot wasnt spammy

[chrome harbor]

yea it just bothers me that the forums are suppose to be the main source of feedback, and so often its bad feedback

[prisma crane]

and IP spam was rage dependant, not, "GoT nOtHiNg ElSe To HiT"

[grim prism]

Seeing that tooltip that just says "does x damage" you can already tell its boring without even pressing it

[timid jay]

I feel like ToS prot warrior was the best when it comes to the class design over legion

[waxen talon]

IP spam was off gcd

and u did it with another finger

[timid jay]

Where rage still mattered but you still had rage enough to play with

[waxen talon]

so even if u pressed it 40times/min i was ok with it

[undone sun]

Indeed

[waxen talon]

fact is puttin ur main finger to devaste button to spam punch it while watching low numbers on screen

[grim prism]

Nighthold prot wars wouldve been great if it werent for Nighthold

[waxen talon]

and a rage bar not moving

now that sucks ass.

[signal plover]

I like FR/IP weave in EN tbh but ToS was solid

[waxen talon]

FR was lame tho

might aswell just call it heroic strike and make it melee

[grim prism]

Wasnt big on FR myself

Right

FR was just "heroic strike but sad" lol

[waxen talon]

and like

if u used ur FR up with no sheild block and no crit

u would be like

;_; so inefficent

[young iris]

Good god, how many updates is the BNET app going to give me in a matter of 5 minutes

fix your game blizz

[grim prism]

Depends on how fast you DL them

Ayyyy

[young iris]

Just had like a 86mb download, logout another 2mb something

[waxen talon]

https://www.heroicstrike.org/

[signal plover]

Awww yeaaaa

[grim prism]

🇫

[signal plover]

F to pay respects

[prisma crane]

na, i dont miss it

but at least it was off GCD as well iirc

[waxen talon]

Heroic strike was the core of what a warrior was

spam mashing button off GCD when u could

[prisma crane]

i just want SS to return to it's glory, back when block value made it hit hard

[waxen talon]

"heroic strike shines" press it for decent crit off gcd

soo juicy

[prisma crane]

shield slam is PROT's core

[waxen talon]

im talking warriors core

[young iris]

I like MoP heroic strike when you would get 5 stacks and crit and 1 shot someone

[waxen talon]

fury in mop was the best time i ever had playing a DPS

[prisma crane]

yea but so is/was execute

but not any more

[waxen talon]

tbh i like current arms

makes execute so juicy

returns rage and stuff

combos so well with AM :3

[prisma crane]

plus tbh i couldn't care less about fury dont even @ me lol

i live for Prot, and arms i like because of pvp

[waxen talon]

Fury been dead for me for years

[junior ivy]

i added an annoying siren sound every 10 seconds to a weakaura, and now i forget which weakaura

and what it means

but i keep hearing a siren sound

[waxen talon]

idk theres lots of warrior core things i feel like could prove fun to get back

[junior ivy]

why do i do this to myself

[waxen talon]

like the fact u would Enrage when ur shield slam / MS critted

that felt so good

bonus rage n stuff

now that we lose battlecry they could be decent tbh 😉

[wanton sentinel]

select all with ctrl -> turn off sound on all

[kind urchin]

Back when devastate was implemented and only refreshed sunder armor. Still had to apply sunder to 5 stacks before swapping to devastate. I kinda miss those days. I would even take devastate applying sunder again. And get rid of sword n board.

[waxen talon]

sunder armor is too op

[river flume]

they literally just gave it to monks with the 5% physical dmg buff

[grim prism]

I will say, as long as we are reminiscing, I disliked FR as a concept, but I loved landing slam crits for bigger numbers than my raid DPS could pull

[waxen talon]

the way it works is

[uneven mason]

Ultimatum boys

[waxen talon]

give us +5% dmg of 5 stacks of sunderarmor

[grim prism]

tfw ravager is still ravager tho

[waxen talon]

then they eqaully be bitches and decrease all our damge by 4%

and then we have ramp up

@grim prism hahhahah yes

i would legit rather take bladestorm than that

[river flume]

they just need to bring back AP and lets us be the gods we are

[grim prism]

They should take parry away from Ravager so people who use it die faster

Increases parry by -30%

Nailed it

[waxen talon]

make it bladestorm that generates rage over time and lets u spam IP off gcd

easy win

fuck ravager

[grim prism]

[waxen talon]

or make ravager a pvp talent and make it do actual damge 😮

and knockbacks ofc

and stun

and chain people to location

[river flume]

make it a skill shot

[waxen talon]

skill shot in wow

"target + click"

[kind urchin]

I'd even take it only applying a debuff to the target against my attacks instead of everyone's. For a short duration so you have a reason to hit devastate outside of "oh I have no other button to press right now so I'll hit devastate". That only happens like 2-3 times per minute.

[uneven mason]

If they added a vortex effect to ravager like Gorefiends it'd be BiS for M+

thats all it'd take

[lusty grotto]

fuck

[uneven mason]

it could do no damage

[lusty grotto]

dude that'd be actually good

[uneven mason]

and provide no defense

all it would need is an AE Snare

• vortex

and we'd use the shit out of it

[waxen talon]

wouldnt need AE snare

its a flying axe

u just run over and clap them

[uneven mason]

20 yard vortex

lasts 6 seconds

[lusty grotto]

not vortex, twister ftfy

[uneven mason]

Mobnado?

[lusty grotto]

Hamnado

[uneven mason]

Whirl Till You Hurl?

[waxen talon]

ravager was amazing in wod tbh

[lusty grotto]

let's make it happen

time to post in the blizzard forum boys

[waxen talon]

but back then alternative was solid -5% damge taken 😛

[lusty grotto]

and have our post lost in the suggestions black hole forever 😦

[waxen talon]

and if i was like, doesnt even matter if i hit the boss

[uneven mason]

Gladiator's Resolve > Ravager for tanking

[waxen talon]

just have it spin

[uneven mason]

flat 5DR > wat

Ravager was brutal because it did damage

[waxen talon]

35% parry is like

legit 20-30% DR on demand.

[uneven mason]

but for tanking 5% Flat DR

legit its not

[waxen talon]

obviously not on boss abilities

but for boss swings

35% parry was godlike in HFC on so many things

[uneven mason]

🤔 100% block uptime gave no shits about boss auto attacks

[waxen talon]

hulk in council, kilrog add, gorefiend add.

[uneven mason]

35% parry is, and shall remain - Shit tier cooldown -

[waxen talon]

it had insane uptime and did damge

[ember arrow]

its same as dancing rune weapon, withotu all the other benefits

[uneven mason]

which is why DRW gets treated as a DPS cooldown

[ember arrow]

on top of it being a talent

and DRW is baseline

[uneven mason]

I mean, DKs also have ungodly amounts of parry

[waxen talon]

its obviously shit in legion

but it was a thing.

[uneven mason]

so they might actually reach important levels with it

[lusty grotto]

parry still hastes auto attacks yeah?

[uneven mason]

no I mean

Not since Cataclysm

[lusty grotto]

figures

[uneven mason]

and never worked for players :p

Parry haste was a Boss mechanic

[lusty grotto]

only for bosses yeah

[uneven mason]

which is why you kicked rogues who attacked from the front

cause those fuckers woudl get your ass thrashed

[hot locust]

Ikari

We do still parry haste

[lusty grotto]

you still did that to DHs on Guldan

[waxen talon]

if u dps infront of a boss ur a idiot

such a dps loss.

[uneven mason]

because Gul'dan

would rip up tanks

from that stacking buff

[lusty grotto]

hewhewhew

[uneven mason]

"KILL EYES" - TURN THE FUCKING BOSS

[young iris]

also doing heroic KJ runs, people would link AOTC and stand in front...

[lusty grotto]

did they say they pulled agro

[young iris]

felclaws was a easy way to kick people

[lusty grotto]

cause that one happened once and i was like 🤦

[strong forum]

#14 normal kingaroth boys

[lusty grotto]

wait what do you mean @hot locust

[uneven mason]

player parry haste is supposed to be in place

is what lala said

[hot locust]

player parry haste is still in the game

[lusty grotto]

hmm

won't that actually be a rage gain?

[uneven mason]

no

because we don't gain rage

on parry/dodge

[hot locust]

not a reliable or useful rage gain

but yes

because

[lusty grotto]

but autoattacks are hasted

[hot locust]

an instant auto

is rage

[lusty grotto]

right

just not enough to justify using it

[uneven mason]

looking at this DKs logs

who has 45% parry

I don't see any hasted autos

like

its consistent

[waxen talon]

i think it was a thing of the past only

[hot locust]

It might be pvp only?

[waxen talon]

point of parry for our sake is ur "instant attack" is the revenge

[hot locust]

But it's definitely still in I had to double check because I thought it was gone too.

[waxen talon]

but its not even first prio 😉

[lusty grotto]

i highly doubt its pvp only

if its in

[strange night]

Not sure it it's still the case, but when soloing 25 dark animus in TOT you can see the parry hast thing

At least you could, for now i don't know !

[waxen talon]

try pull 20 mobs and pop ravager

u would know then

[uneven mason]

that would require speccing into ravage

[strange night]

So many adds attacking you, you would thrash the boxx with mostly melee

[uneven mason]

which I'd never get the stink out of my character pane

[strange night]

Even without it

Level difference made the deal !

[waxen talon]

Ravager was legit cool in the past, you missed out

like 12sec duration cd on 1min cd

[uneven mason]

I know ravager was a nice talent

but it wasn't for the parry

it was because it did balls deep damage

[strange night]

Ravager was good when it was nazgrim's one wrecking LFR groups !

[waxen talon]

parried attack is fully negated, 35% parry on demand when u had downtime wasnt awfull at all

its legit a shield block for 12sec unless ur very unlucky.

these days without a doubt its crap tho

certain mobs also had effects such as dots on you for a succesfull hit as far as i was aware

which block didnt stop but parry did

how i felt like at least, didnt test properly.

[lusty grotto]

PTSD of dodge/parry/bv/bchance unhittible sets again

[uneven mason]

Tanking in Black Temple removing gear so you could get rage to hold aggro +++

[lusty grotto]

rofl

[uneven mason]

wearing pieces from Karazhan and Gruul because your T6 had too much parry/dodge

[lusty grotto]

takes off pants

[uneven mason]

Zulaman was a godsend

so many SBV/SBR pieces

was un "hittable" after ZA

cause maximum block

since block gave rage

and parry/dodge did not

the real PTSD

was absorbs not giving rage

so you couldn't have a priest healer

[lusty grotto]

ohhhh

priest sshields

[waxen talon]

broken past of wow in a nutshell

[lusty grotto]

i remember that

[uneven mason]

Or ending up with a maces rogue in your 5man heroic

Stunned mobs give me no rage, fuckit, gonna respec and we'll stormherald this up

[lusty grotto]

hahaha

i ❤ my stormherald

[uneven mason]

Know what the best part of tanking in the past was

[lusty grotto]

got me glad boys

[uneven mason]

"taunt - using spellhit

[lusty grotto]

ROFL

4horseman

[uneven mason]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[lusty grotto]

oh jesus christ

you had to use the stupid fucking trinket

for taunt

talking original 4horseman

i think it was a ZG trinket or some shit

[waxen talon]

classic raiding was the definition of incomplete design

i honestly dont get why people want vanilla that badly

[lusty grotto]

rose tinted glasses

i don't plan on touching classic

fuck that

[uneven mason]

Classic raiding was an evolution from what we had in Everquest

[lusty grotto]

rather do something constructive with my time

[waxen talon]

vanilla was good in some aspects for sure tho

but Raiding and max level wasnt one of them

[lusty grotto]

it was good, during its time

[waxen talon]

and i wouldnt plan on playing warrior for sure

[lusty grotto]

why not, warrior is basically the only tank

[uneven mason]

It was amazing compared to AoW tanking every giant as monster that comes along and relying on complete heal chains or divine interventions

[waxen talon]

Cuz tanking is such a stupid design in vanilla

[lusty grotto]

i did CH chains on AoW

[waxen talon]

99% of the concern is about aggro

[lusty grotto]

as druid

sunder x5, we're good boys

[uneven mason]

you mean you "patched" between the Cleric chain

cause druids couldn't heal for dick

[lusty grotto]

i should say incomplete heal chains

because it capped at 70%?

[uneven mason]

Primary healer class - same heal as the paladin tank hybrid - sign me up

Oh post luclin

[lusty grotto]

but yeah it was parallel's to cleric's

[waxen talon]

Vanilla had so many problems

the thing i remember the most is hitting a mob 4 times in a row, missing n stuff and gettin no rage

[uneven mason]

Yeah that was uh, limited to 70% or 1930 HP which eve was less

[waxen talon]

litterally just click attack and alt tab

[uneven mason]

and tanks had like 6500 HP

[lusty grotto]

right, i remember

i was on the druid dev board

for a while before i quit

[uneven mason]

took them 10 years to give shamans and druids real heals

[lusty grotto]

during PoP until whatever mistmoore was

[uneven mason]

Depths of Darkhallow

[lusty grotto]

yep

[waxen talon]

Druids were good in wotlk

[uneven mason]

wrong game Frattp 😉

heh sorry

[lusty grotto]

but yeah we could quad at least :p

[uneven mason]

we tangented onto EQ

you could power level melee characters like champs

I leveled a druid on my 2nd account just so I could plvl my ranger

Main was a warrior/necro combo tho~

[lusty grotto]

rangers haha

[uneven mason]

I needed a tracker

and you didn't cap tracking until 356

[lusty grotto]

i see

[uneven mason]

druid and bard tracking capped too low

[lusty grotto]

yup

[uneven mason]

Ranger tracking was almost as good as running SEQ

[lusty grotto]

SEQ?

[uneven mason]

Show EQ

[lusty grotto]

hmm

[uneven mason]

It was a bit against the EULA

[lusty grotto]

that's the hack thing

[uneven mason]

yeah gave you spawn locations/loot tables

[lusty grotto]

you could warp and shit yeah?

[uneven mason]

that was MacroQuest

[lusty grotto]

right

[gray wolf]

so i just logged back on

[grim prism]

As long as we're already on a tangent

[gray wolf]

to see 4p bonus

[uneven mason]

which is why, Blizzard knew not to load all their metadata into the client end

[gray wolf]

to be broken

[lusty grotto]

thanks to daddy furor

[gray wolf]

or smthing

[uneven mason]

Tigole actually

[waxen talon]

4p works fine for prot

[gray wolf]

it's a ignore pain

[grim prism]

If DnD clerics are WoW paladins, then what are DnD paladins 🤔

[waxen talon]

it did when i tried atleast

[gray wolf]

each second

you block

[uneven mason]

depends what edition of D&D

[waxen talon]

yea

[uneven mason]

I mean, 5th edition Paladins are pretty paladiny

[gray wolf]

why wasn't this a thing

in antorous

[uneven mason]

3.* tho

[gray wolf]

😭

[grim prism]

I was actually specifically thinking 3.5

[uneven mason]

D&D Clerics in 3.5 were just "everything"

[waxen talon]

cuz increased IP sucks ass when u IP cap all the time

[uneven mason]

Want to do top damage - WE HAVE SPELLS FOR THAT

Want to murder entire cities - WE HAVE SPELLS FOR THAT

[lusty grotto]

Tigole is hazzicostas or was he Furor? i know Furor also worked with blizz

[uneven mason]

Want to keep an army of level 1 foot soliders alive indefinetly - we have spells for that!

[lusty grotto]

or am i wrong in both counts

[uneven mason]

Furor is Alex Afrasiabi

[lusty grotto]

AH yes

[uneven mason]

Tigole is Kaplan

[grim prism]

I really liked 3.5 when it was current but the older i get the more i realize it was just spergbait for minmaxers

[lusty grotto]

fucking neither ok

did hazzicostas even play EQ? i thought he did

[uneven mason]

3.5 wasn't horribly minmaxy until you got like 5 or 6 expansion sets in

[grim prism]

Or hit double digit levels in any regard

[lusty grotto]

lol balsaq

[grim prism]

And magic missile magically becomes the best ability in the game because its the only one that ever actually hits things and does damage

[uneven mason]

I think Ion played EQ, but he wasn't a major guild leader

like Tigole and Furor were basically 2 of the top 3 guildleaders in the world

[grim prism]

The real question is does Ion even play wow

[uneven mason]

I was on my shaman the other day

and he told me

he played a shaman

[lusty grotto]

Furor was FoH like Thott?

iirc

what guild was Tigole in

i can't remember

[uneven mason]

Balsaq actually, we had a Paladin/Sorc/Saint in our party that couldn't be hit by anything outside of epic level evil outsiders...magic missile too

was only a little minmaxy

Thott was Afterlife

[lusty grotto]

AHHHH

and now he's overwatch

😛

I mean Kaplan

[uneven mason]

Kaplan was the leader of Legacy of Steel

[lusty grotto]

gotcha

I dont remember much about LoS, but the other 2

i did follow from time to time

[uneven mason]

LOS was a top 5 guild overall

[lusty grotto]

especially during the whole Luclin bs

yea the name does ring a bell

[uneven mason]

Furor was famous in EQ for being the first to clear Plane of Sky, but getting his rogue banned in the process

so thats how he ended up playing a warrior

[strong forum]

whats the kind of parse thats good

just did a logged antorus normal

[uneven mason]

depends on your gear

[grim prism]

Orange

[lusty grotto]

depends for what

[uneven mason]

Like

[grim prism]

I mean depends

[strong forum]

i did 92.6 overall

[uneven mason]

thats fine

[grim prism]

For what metric?

Please dont say healing

[strong forum]

what

no tanking

[grim prism]

Is perf% not a damage parse?

[strong forum]

bruv i have never done this

[grim prism]

Okay

Then yeah, thats damage

[strong forum]

91.5 for the boss symbol

thingy

eyy i played aggramar perfect...

cuz thats so hard

[grim prism]

WCL doesnt do tanking metrics because tldr its very hard to make a tanking metric that is both relevant and makes sense

[lusty grotto]

i was just wondering about that

[undone sun]

Tmi lul
Nps lul
Krsi lul

[uneven mason]

DPS

KRSI

!!

[waxen talon]

tank rating is pretty useless

as long as ur not like

[lusty grotto]

looks like things havent changed

[waxen talon]

rubbish rank

[uneven mason]

I mean, overall you want to look at external healing required

[waxen talon]

no thats even more dumb, cuz if they leave u at 90% all the time

u heal urself more

[grim prism]

TMI actually makes a lot of sense mathematically but it isnt something you can use to compare apples to apples

[uneven mason]

heal ourselves with what?

[grim prism]

So tldr "tank ratings" dont exist

[undone sun]

Pretty much have to dig into logs to analyze a tank

[waxen talon]

theres no good way to measure tanking

[undone sun]

Right

[waxen talon]

look at measure see if its decent, go look at damge.

[lusty grotto]

sb uptime and whatever

[waxen talon]

well wrists took a dumb on overhealing for sure

[uneven mason]

Frattp you seem to think you're in the VDH or BDK discord

cause warriors are not healing themselves

not on that scale

[waxen talon]

everything counts

[strong forum]

rank 6 aggra normal on dps \o/ dunno if thats worth anything

[uneven mason]

even with bracers

right so, external healing

[waxen talon]

ok if all raids is taking no damge exepect from me

[lusty grotto]

just remember you're ranked against other tanks

[waxen talon]

and i pop a cd

[grim prism]

Absorbs count as self healing on WCL

[lusty grotto]

on dps*

[waxen talon]

i get less external healing requireed

but if its far from fatal and i pop a cd while whole team is in semi danger

i do better but rank worse.

[grim prism]

EHRPS is like TMI, its a mathematical indicator of one specific metric but is by no means a performance rating

[waxen talon]

external healing is nowhere near a solid way to measure how well u tank.

[uneven mason]

right but overall

[waxen talon]

its decent like

[uneven mason]

its the metric you want to reduce the most

[waxen talon]

u look if ur in a green rank

then u improve

if ur blue or above leave it and dont think about it again

[uneven mason]

IE _ you're dealing with damage in a proper manner

of course there is a variance

[waxen talon]

like if i were to look at external healing on a big hit fight

i would pop all cds to get 0 damge taken

while if i were good i could keep one in case shit goes wrong

[uneven mason]

0_o

[waxen talon]

its a horrible way to measure thigns

[uneven mason]

Do you warrior bro?

[waxen talon]

its theroyically

[grim prism]

Per what ikarikaze said, you can use TMI, EHRPS, and other "tank metrics" to compare your own performance on one boss to your previous pulls of on the same boss. You cant meaningfully compare to other groups or classes

[uneven mason]

^^

although in theory

most tanks should be compariable to a degree on EHRPS

[waxen talon]

Tank ranking are decent to look at if ur doing horribly wrong or decent

but like

its idiotism to chase legendary ranks on tanking

[sick sentinel]

brain fart, what's the R

[uneven mason]

BDK and VDH take more initial damage, but heal it back up INTERNALLY (self sustain)

Required

[grim prism]

@sick sentinel in EHRPS?

[waxen talon]

required

[sick sentinel]

-.-' ofc it is

[waxen talon]

per second

[sick sentinel]

yikes

[grim prism]

External heals required per sec lol

[uneven mason]

So yeah, basically reducing the amouont of attention your healers need to pay to you

is a good method of improving your own performance

[waxen talon]

ur supposed to stay out of a fatal situation as a tank, not target required healing amount tho >.<

[grim prism]

EHRPS also can get skewed by how individual groups run bosses though, e.g. who tanks what for which phase

[uneven mason]

and FRattp sitting on CDs isn't really warriors thing anymore

Right

[waxen talon]

it measures decently

but like

i said

dont chase it 100%

[grim prism]

Hence saying its really only ideal to compare your own performances

[uneven mason]

I get that Bals which is why you have to compare your own apples to apples

[earnest sand]

What site + addon can I use to upload my own logs and see this info?

[uneven mason]

warcraftlogs

they even have an adobe air application that'll autolog

its spiffy!

[earnest sand]

Thanks!

[waxen talon]

if u wanna look at how much better a tank you are, you just look at DPS and progress

everything else is a terrible measurement beyond improving yourself.

[grim prism]

The only best way to measure your performance as a tank is to know what is important in your own buffs and rotations, and look at the logs to make sure youre doing it right

[uneven mason]

while tank DPS is good

working toward survival and toward DPS is 2 metrics

they have nothing to do with eachother

at least not for warrior

VDH mebbie

[waxen talon]

then again

[uneven mason]

or BDK mebbie

[waxen talon]

you work towards survival not minimal overall damge taken

ur supposed to stay out of lethal situations, not just overkill

[uneven mason]

I don't even know what direction you're trying to argue Frattp

what you're staying is literally what I just said, when I said "Reduce the amount of attention your healers need to pay to you"

[waxen talon]

as a tank ur supposed to require moderate amounts of healing and obviously dont die

not just push the external healing numbers as far down as u can

[uneven mason]

That would accomplish the same goal?

[waxen talon]

no, smooth and lower is different.

[grim prism]

The NPS metric conceptually compensates for that with the idea that tanking is pass or fail, not a "how well did you do" number like damage. You either lived or you died. Too bad NPS completely stops making sense the moment you get sny further into it than that

[uneven mason]

0_o

[strong forum]

smooth = no spikes

lower = everything low?

[uneven mason]

yeah I get that

[strong forum]

idk

[uneven mason]

I dunno

[strong forum]

define "low"

[waxen talon]

low as in

[uneven mason]

like, if you're usin big Cds on big hits and minor CDs on little hits to smoot hthe damge you endup in the same spot?

[waxen talon]

maybe i can do this fight with 10m damge taken and few spikes

versus 10.5m and no spikes

[uneven mason]

I think he's confusing when I say "reduce healers attention" with "Stackk all your CDs for one big hit"

[grim prism]

Jesus what a can we've just opened

[lusty grotto]

Guys it's Friday, my brain can only take so much

[strong forum]

i have a headache and im not even paying attention

[lusty grotto]

😂

[uneven mason]

I'm just trying to figure out why he's agreeueing with me

[strong forum]

might be because of the beer OpieOP

[grim prism]

Its also important that spikiness and volume can both kill you in their own special ways, hence TMI or EHRPS can never be used as a blanket performance evaluator

[waxen talon]

exactly.

[grim prism]

They are just pieces of a bigger puzzle

[uneven mason]

Not following how you guys are getting "reduce healers attention (EHRPS)" means "eat some big spikes to lower damage overall" 😕

[strong forum]

is khazgoroths courage super low proc rate for tanks or why does it almost do nothing

[waxen talon]

its like saying, spam ignore pain on auto attacks, while other strat could be to save it for big hit

[uneven mason]

can'

[waxen talon]

while first option might prove overall more reduction

[undone sun]

50% proc rate

[waxen talon]

alternative is safer

[uneven mason]

Can't stack IP anymore

[waxen talon]

this is not relevant in current game tho

but again, in theory.

[uneven mason]

but

[strong forum]

50%? really, i had 19 autoattacks vs entire argus fight

[jade tartan]

Guys, quick question but I know you've heard this a lot.. I just need your honest opinion.
I've played Prot since Vanilla to Draenor basically, changed to Vengeance DH in Legion .

I'm so torn atm.. Prot or VDH? 😦

[grim prism]

Thyme the real MVP here

[strong forum]

literally 1 -2 procs

[uneven mason]

Whateveryouwant

[undone sun]

50% of normal proc rate

Halved

[strong forum]

aah

so its garbo

[undone sun]

Stat stick

[uneven mason]

its a DPS increase for your raid

[strong forum]

as tank, literally only did 10k

[uneven mason]

oh nm

[strong forum]

cuz i just got the tank trinket

and... yea

[uneven mason]

derp you guys were asking about the DPS

trinket

for tanks

[lethal plaza]

@jade tartan I'd say level both, but VDH if you want to focus dungeons and Prot if you are a raider.

[strong forum]

yea

[uneven mason]

yeah don't do that

they speficially made it bad

[strong forum]

aww

[uneven mason]

made me cry

[strong forum]

sad boy

[uneven mason]

yeah it was fun the first few weeks

[strong forum]

welp just got tank trinket so i gues...

[uneven mason]

cause kaboom

[jade tartan]

ty @lethal plaza 😃

[strong forum]

yea woulda been GIGA nice

[uneven mason]

Tanking using Scourgewing and Khaz

muchcleave

handle it

[strong forum]

so i just had a useless trinket, same as the vengeful scourge thingy,

[chrome harbor]

using archimone's trinket atm, I likiee

[waxen talon]

i miss that dragonsoul trinket that spammed the huge whirlwind

[uneven mason]

yeah I think

I'ma just tank using Arch

[strong forum]

well i was using scourge and khaz 🤔

[uneven mason]

cause that extra absorb on doggos

[strong forum]

but they barely did anything

[uneven mason]

Scourge procs from your Heroic throw

[chrome harbor]

its a nice oh shit when you want absorbs and remember IP got curbstomped

[uneven mason]

taunt throw - scourgeaggro

means you can demo shout on inc

[chrome harbor]

so thats what that shadowy shit has been...

[uneven mason]

yeah

[strong forum]

scourge only procced 3 times vs garothi

🤔

[uneven mason]

yeah DPS trinkets

shit procrates for tanks

[waxen talon]

use stat sticks

[uneven mason]

^

[strong forum]

not before prepatch

welp.

i guess

scourge did literally 6% dmg in dungeons for me

[waxen talon]

you hopefully got your 930+ arcano crystal by now

[strong forum]

hah

[uneven mason]

does 11% for me as fury in dungeons

[strong forum]

i never even got 1 for my warri

[chrome harbor]

arcano is a myth

[strong forum]

and i never tried getting one

[waxen talon]

then amanthuls 😛

[strong forum]

cuz DPS TRINKETS BOY

terrorbound nexus Kreygasm

[uneven mason]

Arcano was BiS for Arms

wat

[strong forum]

best trinket whole legion

[waxen talon]

arcano was bis for like every1

[chrome harbor]

we saw one amanthuls and it went to some guy's lock alt he never plays

[uneven mason]

cept fury

[waxen talon]

it was for fury at one point

[uneven mason]

cause Cuck of Fates

[waxen talon]

pre cuck of fates it was.

[uneven mason]

yeah

I got a 915 arcanocrystal on my resto druid

[waxen talon]

i had a warforged from boss orginally

and rolled like 930 on argus

was while farming for a cof tho :p

[uneven mason]

who has highfathers 975 and Velen's

[chrome harbor]

see all i got from those were stat sticks

[uneven mason]

RIP that trinket

[grim prism]

Man

[waxen talon]

yea i get spammed with crit stat sticks too

but i buy like 4 /week and disenchant so w/e

[grim prism]

IP was dogshit all expac then 7.3 to 7.3.5 hits and suddenly everyone is dickriding it and bemoaning its demise

[waxen talon]

you mean

IP had thoughts behind it

[grim prism]

IP was never good, prot was just broken enough to make you think it was

[waxen talon]

then it became "keep this up 100% of the time"

if you rage pooled early bosses and used IP as a cd it did a heck lot

but yea then u just ended up sitting at cap all the time cuz numbers 😉

[lusty grotto]

iirc IP was really good at the start of the expac

[waxen talon]

iP was overtuned numberwise

but cost was high too

[lusty grotto]

got nerfed relatively quickly but yeah

[waxen talon]

so they nerfed numbers + reduced cost

or rage gen instead of cost*

RFDT + insane ignore pain was sick.

[chrome harbor]

was also fun to have snap heals with IP And the bracers

[undone sun]

IP used to scale on hp

👌

[uneven mason]

IP used to scale with max HP and AP

[waxen talon]

ip in timewarp

[uneven mason]

Vengeance solo garrosh tanking

ftw

[waxen talon]

casually sit at 400% hp cap

Garrosh?

[uneven mason]

back in MoP

sorry "Shield Barrier"

[waxen talon]

😄

[uneven mason]

"IP"

same bloody thing

[chrome harbor]

'generic absorb you hit when you cant block'

[uneven mason]

^^

ANGEL DUST

its angel dust

thats why the icon

is a gauntelt with glowing dust

cause we're doing some PCP

ignore pain on that shit

[grim prism]

IPCP

[chrome harbor]

ive seen a guy on PCP take multiple bottles to the head and not feel it, makes sense

[undone sun]

Hmm

[grim prism]

Sweet i didnt know my cousin was in this discord

[chrome harbor]

/wave

[grim prism]

:peepoguns:

[uneven mason]

@fierce juniper rename your IP tracker to PCP Tracker please

[lusty grotto]

we did it skyhold!

[waxen talon]

tbh i had forgotten about vengeance

god i hated that

was fun to pull a fuckton and solo tank while taking massive damge

but in dungeons and such it was just so dumb

[junior ivy]

is dimas still my best trinket option"

?

dimas + pantheon?

[waxen talon]

isnt dimas horrible dps

[grim prism]

Oh hey i finally got my 4th legendary yesterday

Not like i nolife mythic raided for two full tiers after BLP was implemented or anything

[waxen talon]

haha

[junior ivy]

wait dimas is bad now?

[plush crystal]

SO is it just me or does protection feel horribly boring now

[lusty grotto]

@junior ivy no

it's still good

reading comprehension cat!

[junior ivy]

how do i get rid of these

[strong forum]

press overpower

its implemented in wow to get those when you get an overpower proc

[junior ivy]

do you know what overpower is?

[strong forum]

ofc

an ability that increases your mortal strike damage

or revenge procs? do those light up aswell i dont knwp

[junior ivy]

oh ok cause i dont have an ability called mortal strike

[strong forum]

i thought you were arms spec

but i guess that he revenge proc most likely

i could be wrong

do you use weakauras?

[lusty grotto]

cat is prot yea

and this is #protection after all

but i do agree it might be a WA

[junior ivy]

its fury

[lusty grotto]

if its not, then there should be an option in WoW

[junior ivy]

but i was in fury spec

lol

so i dunno

oh well

[lusty grotto]

rampage

[junior ivy]

ohhh ok

[strong forum]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lusty grotto]

probably rampage or raging blow

if its fury

[junior ivy]

yeah im just wroking on my fury UI

cause im bored

[strong forum]

thanks for reminding me, i had something to work in WA aswell

😄

[sage siren]

@junior ivy that when u can do a rampage on fury spec

[junior ivy]

oh ok thanks

[lusty grotto]

i completely forgot that raging blow no longer needs enrage

[junior ivy]

fury seems weird now

my stuff is always on cd

sometimes i have nothing to click

so ill pummel

just for something to do

[strong forum]

do whirlwind

[junior ivy]

oh yeah

[strong forum]

it generates rage now

[junior ivy]

thats smarter than pummel

[sage siren]

their is a fury thread guys 😉 this is protection

[junior ivy]

sorry haha

[strong forum]

true

[junior ivy]

i wanna learn arms too and that way ill know every spec!

[rain pendant]

devastator or booming voice?

[junior ivy]

booming voice

[strong forum]

BV

[lusty grotto]

👉 👈

i love that emote

emoji*

[strong forum]

yo isnt leveling with soul of the battle lord amazing for arms warri? getting AM and you can get ravager? Pog

[runic linden]

''@uneven mason thx for reply but i don't know how to make a macro for the 0,2 sec gdc 😄

[junior ivy]

do combat allies not work anykmore?

[strong forum]

they do work

atleast my thorim does

[rare terrace]

They seriously need to take IP off the gcd

[junior ivy]

i love how neat and clean my UI looks

[ember arrow]

well uhh, just did 24 mos

dark slash is survivable

[dusky pasture]

So I don't see avatar?

[ember arrow]

respec to arms/furry

then back

it will be in spellbook

[dusky pasture]

weird

thank you

[midnight yacht]

anyone else still having trouble with demoralizing shout weak aura not showing on debuffed targets?

[wooden lark]

why tf did they put ignore pain on gcd

so retarded

[undone sun]

Because blizzard ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ember arrow]

C H O I C E S

D E C I S I O N S

[wooden lark]

i mean if monk has brews on gcd or druid armour ability they would be trash so why tf they do it for warrior

and not those classes

[warm plinth]

Dark slash is survivable in what context? Like did you not need a CD?

[wooden lark]

leggo pants and spell reflect

then shield block

[ember arrow]

@warm plinth u do

[wooden lark]

then shouts

[ember arrow]

shield block doesnt do shit

vs dark slash

[wooden lark]

shield wall**

[ember arrow]

yes

SW + DS

[warm plinth]

So you were just saying it didn't get overtuned in the patch

[ember arrow]

it didnt

21 i did on warr

24 on bdk

both i didnt get onehit

titanguard,AHR on bdk

_>

[warm plinth]

That's good.

[ember arrow]

it hit me 70k

so survivable

its like mythic dogs

but without dot

@warm plinth i dont feel prepatch m+ is overtuned at all

i almost say that bosses feel easier even on tyranical, trash gives more trouble so far

[warm plinth]

I would agree with you. I did a Vault and the hardest thing in the dungeon was the big pack right before Tirathon. And we had to 4-man the whole thing from the first mini-boss. Still +2ed it

[ember arrow]

nice 👍

what keylevel was it?

the first boss was quite damaging, with all his magic dmg and the darkstrikes

one of few

[warm plinth]

I mean, it was only a 14 but that's around my normal key level so I only have my own experience to compare to. Definitely far easier than a 14 pre-8.0. I actually wonder if Hyrja is much easier or not.

[ember arrow]

didnt notice much difference

but then again bdk and war

dont exactly cant handle magic burst

[dense flame]

m+ dmg is fine

i think some raid bosses

are lil tough

😃

[warm plinth]

Yeah. I bet Shield on Hyrja is fun with only 20% reduction D:

[ember arrow]

its actually not bad

DS + SR

[warm plinth]

Yeah I guess that makes it pretty close to previous DR from SR alone

[stark lance]

Is Devastator actually not good anymore?

[ember arrow]

nope

[stark lance]

Damn

so its all about the booming voice im guessing

[ember arrow]

yea

[stark lance]

Running the belt with the new lower cooldown is pretty hilarious in m+

permanent 20% DR

[tropic phoenix]

wait, I shud be using booming voice, not devstator

thats sad

[ember arrow]

yaea

[tropic phoenix]

im using devstator anyway cos im retarded

[prime kernel]

same here, its weaker but its a pre patch anyways, i dont need to min max warr atm. so i kept devastator ;d

[ember arrow]

playing wow with yt playlist, bfa commercial starts

ok

[wooden lark]

hate how u cant get fkin rage for defensives in high magic damage encounters

[ember arrow]

SW LS

dont cost defensives

neither does DS

[wooden lark]

huh i said rage

[ember arrow]

ye

[wooden lark]

just did +19 arcway and last boss just eats ur ip

[ember arrow]

ye ip is pty shit

[wooden lark]

had like 20 mins left

for last boss

finished with only 6 mins left

kept getting shit on as couldnt keep up any mitigation

prot war needs a rework.. standing around doing nothing waiting for shield slam to come off cooldown/demo shout for rage is dumb

[prime kernel]

btw. guys, is t21 2p and 4p worth taking now ? or shoudl we just go for highest ilvl ? i saw the patch notes about that bonus 5% armor , guess its fine right ?

[wooden lark]

take 4p

each block with 4pc provides 7-8k extra mitigation to ur ip

so if u block with 4pc it basically gives more shield than ignore pain gives

4pc v strong but its the only thing keeping prot warrior from being thrown in the bin rn imo lo

[ember arrow]

i did mos 21 today without those huge issues u mentioned

dont forget arcway is 90% magic dmg in a world where tanks cant metigate magic dmg

arcway was already bad

[wooden lark]

yeah im sure its mainly just an arcway issue due to magic damage removing ip before u can block

[ember arrow]

i do agree that IP is too small

it either stays as small as it is and off gcd

[wooden lark]

still its fkin annoying to tank and try get block for u ip and then realise ur 40 rage did nothing and u gotta sit and wait forever to try and get another one up before dying

[ember arrow]

or make it actually big

8.5k

is nothing

thats 1 auto

[wooden lark]

i think decrease rage cost by 10 and take off gcd would help a lot

[ember arrow]

i think the kit is fine

but IP is weird

weirdly weak

[wooden lark]

so slow getting up mitigation with charging in > building rage with demo shout + shield bash > ignore pain > shield block

its like 3 or 4 seconds of gcd to get mitigation up from 0 rage

esp when ur ip can just be chunked, like as u said its 1 auto lol

[ember arrow]

helya on 24 does 15k autos on my bdk

critblocked thats 0.6 x15k

still whole ip

pty much

[stark sage]

well

you can get your critblock higher than 60%

pretty easily

[ember arrow]

ofc, but the issue remains

[wooden lark]

yeah my crit block is 74% i think

[ember arrow]

of ip being small

warriors rarely die to autos

[wooden lark]

yeah it way too small for the rage cost

[stark sage]

ip scales pretty well imo, i think its part of being undergeared

[ember arrow]

it does? i dont have beta

so prepatch is my exp

[wooden lark]

yeah neither

[stark sage]

scales with AP and verse

[wooden lark]

still think its stupid/unfair that its on gcd when other tanks have mitigation off gcd

[ember arrow]

death strike is on gcd

was in legion too

[somber dragon]

frenzied regen is now on the gcd

[stark sage]

i dunno much about other tanks, but afaik most of their AM is on the gcd

[undone sun]

Every tank has mitigation on gcd

[wooden lark]

yeah it does damage though

[somber dragon]

light of the protector is on the gcd

[ember arrow]

u dont DS for the dmg

in relevant content

[wooden lark]

yeah i know u dont

but it still does damage

[somber dragon]

every tank has just about everything on the gcd now, it's not just warrs

[undone sun]

^

[wooden lark]

monk brews are off gcd

[ember arrow]

boss uses ability>melee

then u DS

[wooden lark]

druid armour thing is off gcd

[somber dragon]

shield block is off the gcd

[ember arrow]

yea kinda odd comparison

sotr is off gcd

[undone sun]

Every tank spec has two abilities that are considered mitigation, every tank has one on and one off

[ember arrow]

its secondary metigation being on gcd

[somber dragon]

light of the protector is on it

[ember arrow]

most of the thyme

[winter aspen]

Prot is SO garbage

[undone sun]

Stop

[ember arrow]

oh hello there

[winter aspen]

that GCD on Ignore pain omg

I want to strangle Ion rn

[ember arrow]

he ll like it msot likely

[somber dragon]

honestly, i've dicked around on everything except a monk, and warriors don't feel bad (to me as a casual) at all

"feel" and "bad" being subjective

[ember arrow]

what i hate is i oneshot all quest mobs

so cant even properly train

[winter aspen]

even with 40% base haste and 15% from trait it feels so slow and clunky

[wooden lark]

damn u got 40% haste?

[ember arrow]

40+ 15?

[wooden lark]

im sitting at 27% at 245

[winter aspen]

yeah Im 248 ilvl, still feels so slow. especially the rage gen because of devastate

[ember arrow]

as keladan said, IP will get stronger with gear

[somber dragon]

as will SB to some extent (:

[west kayak]

I am at 41% haste and with 5 stacks of ITF I am at 63%.

[wooden lark]

as for clunky idk i think warr is defo more clunky than druid/monk/bdk .. apart from death grip boing on gcd.. whyy

[stark sage]

i'm not worried about the viability of prot at all

[winter aspen]

it is not too bad but you simply dont gen that much rage rn

[ember arrow]

@wooden lark DRW and grip is on gcd

[west kayak]

I cant get rid of my Rage fast enough most of the time. Not sure where you are have the rage gen issue.

[ember arrow]

DRw is a bit deal

[winter aspen]

especially compared to how smooth and finished fury feels

[ember arrow]

big*

[winter aspen]

its like they ignored prot :I

[undone sun]

Comparing tanks to dps is like apples and oranges

[ember arrow]

more like apples and cars

[winter aspen]

nope, I loved legion prot

[pure kraken]

Sorry to barge in here; I've just loaded up my prot warr and I dunno wtf is happening. Before patch I could solo any Argus rare without even thinking about it, and now they destroy me in about 10 seconds flat. I'm following Icy-Veins advice RE talents and rotation. What am I doing wrong?

[winter aspen]

so fast, so good

[wooden lark]

to be fair, i did a +15 whilst fury and the prot warrior tanking topped dps a fair amount in most packs

was lower kara tho so he was just avatar + thunderclap spamming but it was still annoying as i was playing dps lol

[ember arrow]

thats good and all, but we must surv comfortably first

ip must give more bang for its buck

[somber dragon]

that is surv

[west kayak]

Avatar = Revenge/TClap til the DPS crys.

[ember arrow]

@pure kraken not sure

10 sec is really fast

[stark sage]

@pure kraken yeah maybe the rare you found had some scaling problems from the squish

[undone sun]

Wouldn't be surprised

Considering they "forgot to tune soulrending scythes"

[pure kraken]

Well the tank dummy in order hall also fucks me.

the smaller one!

[ember arrow]

@pure kraken tank dummy is 123

[wooden lark]

@pure kraken also were u using mannaroth's before patch? rage isn't generated nearly as fast as well as st damage being a bit shit with no shield bash/battle cry spam

[sick sentinel]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[ember arrow]

tank dummy isnt indicator

[sick sentinel]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[stark sage]

did he atleast buy you a drink first

[ember arrow]

tank dummy is tuned for 120 level tanks

pty sure

[somber dragon]

logged in on prot pali, walked over to the thingy... almost died

[ember arrow]

bdk can tank 18 stacks

till i died

the big one

[somber dragon]

i got to 3 without big cds on my pali, but i'm not even "geared" (was 918 before squish oh him)

[wooden lark]

i found bdk quite week in hc antorus on wedesday

[somber dragon]

and my warr is even lower

[wooden lark]

weak*

[ember arrow]

did some 22+ keys today

[somber dragon]

bdk talent rows suck donkey wang

[ember arrow]

was amazing

they dont

[wooden lark]

aggramar was nearly 1shotting my bdk when it didnt before

[somber dragon]

i don't like the things that are exclusive

[ember arrow]

literally all the correct choices are good

[somber dragon]

i miss having a couple of the things combined >.<

[ember arrow]

can u give example

im on bdk right now

[wooden lark]

grip off gcd

was like butter

[somber dragon]

i'm pretty sure ossuary and foul bulwark were separate