what's ur avoidance at?
#protection
long phoenix
yeah i'm not sure but that 2nd sycthe hit is fucking trucking me
4/4 bastion zero avoidance i'm main spec arms
prisma crane
well that's why
up to 20% reduction on nearly all dmg apart from his melees on that fight
from avoidance
and bastion, well
long phoenix
well fuuuck
prisma crane
if you had max bastion, even with a regular block you
you would take about 10% less dmg
with a crit block you'd take 50% less dmg from them
mind you, that's 50% less than what you'd crit block now
so it's insanely powerful
check the argus WQ
often teh iron relic for one is a bastion relic
it's worth dropping even if it's 880 or w/e
yea WQ right now for Ven'orn is bastion relic
890+
honestly worth leaving raid to get that righ tnow
pray for WF/TF
KJ blood relic is bastion as well
so heroic KJ would be 925 ilvl min
kin'garoth iron relic is bastion as well
those are the only 3 i know of that are base bastion
undone sun
Correct
prisma crane
maybe you get lucky and it has master of shadows on it too, so you'd get like 4.54% avoidance
oh so there's 2 fire ones, good to knwo
know*
undone sun
Could always just get lucky T3s
prisma crane
yea
or like me and all 3rd slot and 3x master of shadows
buuuuuuuut now i want shadowbind π¦
long phoenix
thanks for the advice guess i'll be farming some relics this weekend
rocky fulcrum
Mythic Imonar, popping shrapnels intentionally, shield block reduces that physical damage right?
undone sun
No
SB isn't just flat physical reduction and shrapnel mines are bleeds which bypass armor from the start
winged marsh
grats
cinder nova
Gonna be interesting.
sick sentinel
phase 2 argus. how do you handle the swaps and the avatar
we are 3 tanking
m
nvm
avatar is rng after the 1st..
undone sun
We usually sac the big bombs, tank with the buff only soaks the two small orbs
sick sentinel
so tank with avatar goes to green and soaks the two small orbs, and then the big orb gets sacced at blue?
undone sun
We only send out the big bomb, small ones stack on the boss
sick sentinel
interesting
and if the small bomb gets the fear what then
or rage. whichever one lets you not stack with others
and by sac you mean blessing of sacrifice right
undone sun
Could be wrong but i don't think the rage and bomb debuffs overlap
At least they don't target that which already has the opposite
round hornet
they can IF the gaze happens aftrer the bombs are applied
like if you transition to p2 late
undone sun
True
round hornet
or before or w/e I forget the ortder
my guild soaks the first 2 bombs
just need both tanks who don't have the buff to run out with the peeps
if you have a rshaman you can also use their res totem as long as the bomb guy dies to the ticking damage and not the end explosion
daring aspen
MW can also solo soak bomb and pala can DS
round hornet
hpally can also dodge the bomb if they pre immune it be fore it goes out and it happens to target them
so that they dont have to run out at all
prisma crane
ankh totem too, but note, they have to die to the dot, not the explosion, the explosion overkills by too much
past crater
Is it still BIS to use 4pc t20 and 2p t21 or was t20 nerfed too hard?
undone sun
T20 wasn't nerfed but it's worth dropping for a 25 ilevel increase
past crater
oh the link in pins said the t19 nerf i mixed it up with t20
so its still better to use 4pc 2 pc as long as the t20 4 pcs isnt below 25 ilvls?
glacial flint
is eye of shatug or eye of f'harg the better option ?
timid jay
Depends on what fight you're doing
glacial flint
yeah sure magical / necro vs physical
timid jay
All depends on if you need the EHP from the stamina version
Do note that the armor version is a worse DmD:I
Only thing it has is more str which is mainly just for damage
glacial flint
DmD?
timid jay
darkmoon deck immortaility
glacial flint
ah kk
maybe then ill stick with my angerboda -10ilvl and + avoidance π
for m+
when i dont need slow of diima
timid jay
diimas does a lot of damage
Its really good for damage in m+
just line it up with BC
past crater
Is Diima's better damage than something like a chaos talisman or chronoshard?
I cant find anything like a dps trinket list for prot
past crater
Oh ok my bad I was always used to sims not working for prot
I remember a bunch opf trinkets didnt work or got heavily nerfed in prot spec, is there a list of those?
undone sun
Pretty much any dps trinket out of raids from NH to current are nerfed for off specs
past crater
but no dungeons ones?
undone sun
Aside from contract from seat, no
past crater
oh ok thanks, for some reason I thought Terrorbound got nerfed for tanks
wild marsh
I was wondering what stats I should be going for as prot warr? Fairly new to it for legion.
undone sun
Haste>mastery>=verse>crit
should be covered in the guide in the pins
keen cairn
Prot mage tower any hard?
undone sun
Gear dependent
keen cairn
what ilvl would you recommend π€
undone sun
Doable as low as ~890, obviously much easier the higher you go and with optimal legos and tanking experience
keen cairn
Aight im like 870 atm was hoping to rack up ilvl before it breaks
wild marsh
Oh there are guides on the pins! Thank you!
past crater
if you get good ilvl 4pc T21, do you use 2 pc T20 or is it not worth the ilvl loss off non tier pieces?
i would imagine that would be far less than 25 ilvl worth
also would mess up being able to use Kakushan's over walls fell
grand trellis
Finally got bracers andgloves. Feel like a real warrior
timid jay
I dont really see much reason in keeping only t20 2p
past crater
ok thanks i was debating on upgarding my wall fell or kakushens to 1k ilvl to pair with mamaroths
so if 2p isnt worth keeping ill just go with kakushins
junior crown
plucky viper
damn i hate how shields float on the back of my toon
lapis topaz
If you've focused only on prot so far, but you need to pick an off-spec for a raid or dungeon, which spec will prot gear perform better as?
Seems like the haste from prot lends more towards fury?
fathom hollow
you'd be fine as either tbh
smoky oak
All warrior specs like haste, but arms is heavily favored towards mastery
lapis topaz
Cool, thanks!
smoky canopy
whats the most effective way to move PK?
like how much time before collapsing world goes off should you wait before dragging her over
sick sentinel
well you always move when collapsing world happens
but you should move the boss alone when you boss will start collapsing world soon if there are adds nearby
so dps can easily deal with imps
west kayak
Heroic Leap or Intervene a ranged player to get her out of the add area.
signal plover
Also watch for fel barrage resetting the collapsing timer allowing u to keep her for cleave for a bit longer.
We found it best to just move between 2 sides
full swan
restive scroll
Bracer/gloves/thundergod | More occasionnaly legs/sephuz ||| even more , pauldrons
you sometimes have to switch them between two packs
dusk osprey
are blood DKs immobile and slow af?
dusk osprey
i'm thinking of leveling a second tank, but i feel like the lack of mobility for a blood DK would kill me
but they're just so damn strong
round hornet
just gotta keep some skystep pots on ya
prisma crane
mobility doesnt matter when you can pull half an instance at once... π¦
gilded turret
Hey folks, any suggestions for mage tower? I feel like i'm not doing enough DPS to kill the nether fiends fast enough, either that or i'm using the wrong talents... https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/zuljin/tchernobyl
undone sun
switch to devastator isntead of indom and are those your only Legos
prisma crane
and yes, before you ask, even though your HP is reduced by the debuff, deva is much more valuable
gilded turret
thyme: mostly fury leggos, lemme look what else i have
prisma crane
i just rewatched Sense's video on it and didnt realize how low our HP was back then, he had a ton of HP to me then and only about 5.6m lol
gilded turret
think i'm keeping shoulders for mobility against the eyes at least, been useful so far
prisma crane
use bear tartare food
gilded turret
already do!
prisma crane
you wont have to watch charge charges as often
hmm
boots will prob do more for you than the shoulders
gilded turret
this is like alt 319819879 or something so i'm not quite as good with him as i'd be with my main
gilded turret
I do have sephuz, soul of the battle lord, cenn ar charger and insignia
No bracers no
Plus the two i'm wearing
prisma crane
seeing as how you have no tier, i'd consider either trying to get at least 2p T21 or wearing SotB and Sephuz or shoulders probably
gilded turret
Nelth's fury to clear the nether fiends?
rofl, it feels so weird not to smash devastate
undone sun
Not unless rev/TC are on CD, the damage portion of NF is quite weak unless there's many more targets
gilded turret
I feel like i'm not killing them fast enough so them on top of the rest means i just get overwhelmed
just to show how much i suck at it... attempt 50! D:
gaaaaaah fucking knockbacks
languid rose
no t21 so maybe pull out sotb
undone sun
Haste>Mastery>=vers>crit
dps legos, the "problem" damage from that job is easily mitigated by using spell reflect
And legs aren't needed to have SR up for every add spawn
timid jay
Is that T20 2p?
If you have anything heroic antorus ilvl for legs and shoulders I'd say yes
2p in itself doesn't have much value
Yes
gilded turret
argh 10%
sturdy willow
hey look its a cosmo
timid jay
π€
undone sun
As soon as you control yours π
sturdy willow
π
timid jay
oof
true bear
sturdy willow
but i missed u buddy
sturdy willow
im sorry π
final mist
undone sun
Oof
sturdy willow
but we missed him in blood so i had to come say hi
timid jay
π
sturdy willow
good to know theres no blood worms in the prot channel
final mist
Nah, we like our Pepos here 
pallid inlet
it's okay @timid jay is ignoring the pain of no bloodworms in #protection
timid jay
π€
limber tulip
@timid jay imu
pallid inlet
Hi cosmo o/
timid jay
What even triggered this π€
undone sun
π
pallid inlet
What triggered what?
sturdy willow
we were troll pinging u in blood and thyme said if we wanted to come say hi u were in here
timid jay
Everyone to hop in here lol
pallid inlet
We missed you?
sturdy willow
and yes we missed u
final mist
timid jay
β€
gilded turret
2% on kruul argh 
final mist
How can a valuable memeber and pillar of a community such as Cosmo get muted in another class discord?
pallid inlet
Bypassing Wordfilter
final mist
Clearly we need to re-think our criteria for Stormforged.
undone sun
Bypasses the word filter
sturdy willow
i went on a bit of a rant earlier
pallid inlet
Ye how come Cosmo is stormforged and not me? I've not been muted in Acherus as of yet
pallid inlet
That's racist
timid jay
I mean I had gotten a warning for my bloodworms trolling, guessing it was the last straw
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
sturdy willow
wait really?
timid jay
Was a while though since I even mentioned bloodworms though
limber tulip
Itβs so good on alpha tho youβre just a prophet
pallid inlet
Nah as soon as prepatch hits, he memes mark of blood
pallid inlet
i mean, on a single boss tho
sturdy willow
still has more usefulness then blood worms XD
sturdy willow
cosmo when are u off timeout in blood channel?
timid jay
Idk, 4-5 days maybe?
sturdy willow
π
languid rose
π€
undone sun
A lot of sales
jade socket
thats even on the lower side for some of those guys
prisma crane
i was in a couple of that guy's runs he did for sales
some people have lots of time...
winged marsh
Nothing else to really do in WoD
spend a few hours everyday makin gold killin the boss, ezpz
jade socket
making 2 million gold a day makes you like argus
languid rose
there's other things to do in life
jade socket
π€
languid rose
all those unplayed games in your steam library π€·
winged marsh
ye ive seen some real money prices for sales, definitely some good cash if you do it π
not endorsin tho
sharp fern
π€
languid rose
it's all about sword block now
round hornet
Depends on the type of sale, it's not much more than minimum wage from what I've seen anyways
For heroic and m+ anyways, idk about mythic Argus sales
jade socket
mplus sales atm are pretty bad for the most part
argus and pl sales are good if you know the right people
junior ivy
pl?
winged marsh
personal loot
junior ivy
oh ok
junior ivy
lol hes still stuck there as far as i know
im doin a maw 20 wiht him tomorrow
if we 1 chest, he will get his 3k π
i havent been doing many keys this week
i need to find a nelths 19 or 20
see how bad my NL is .
ugh
junior ivy
ive been so focused on achievements and rep grinding
got like, 6 mounts last week though..
winged marsh
#thegrind
junior ivy
might be doing glory of the orgrimmar raider tonight
after that its just legion raider, tomb raider and antorus raider!
winged marsh
Thatsd the one that gives galakrus right?
undone sun
Pretty sure
winged marsh
I heard its a real pain in the ass to do though
undone sun
Pretty much
mortal dust
Hello, i just came back to wow after like 6 months. is the stats still haste>mastery or?
undone sun
Yup
Defensively it's correct and until you get to a certain ilevel it's correct for dps too, at a certain point simming can result in str lower than haste
mortal dust
Okay, because i'm 956, and was just wondering what it could be.
tiny sphinx
is the 4 worth using at a loss of ilvl?
undone sun
How much of an ilevel drop
tiny sphinx
6
tiny sphinx
pretty much i can replace the legs and chest with 2 965 peices with haste mastery, up from 940 and 945
undone sun
Mostly depends on the fight, but that might be too big of an ilevel gap
tiny sphinx
ill mess around with it see how it feels with/without it, ty for feedback π
brazen lion
Is it worth going back to farm 4pc t20, do we know how much ilevel its approx worth?
restive scroll
25~
deft sapphire
its not worth farming
its defensive benefits only last a little while, and for offensive purposes you will want to wear kakushans, which doesn't allow the tier combo
past crater
so even if its under 25 ilvls lover than your other gear its not worth dps wise?
I was under the impression the rage gen was a big dps increase, but I quit before t21 and just came back so im not sure
restive scroll
(not as sure as Mgll would be but) The 2p T21 is way too good to break for the gloves, and stat is still an upgrade at some point. So the rage you gain from t20 doesn't compensate the stats loss, or the leg gloves
past crater
alright then i should start trying to replace my t20 since i have the gloves/bracers, thank you
deft sapphire
gloves are a bigger dps increase than any other effect really, and the massive ilvl means you drop a lot of str and secondaries overall
no other legendary really gives that big of a st dps increase
restive scroll
(except belt on a big enough pack)
undone sun
4pc is stronger and is worth more than 2pc alone
brazen lion
Is the walls fell competitive without 2p21/4p22?
undone sun
Not over gloves, no
One of the main reasons twf is used with the tier combo is because you're locked out of the gloves slot for legos
Twf does gain value with t21 2pc but 99% of the time it doesn't beat gloves
solid drum
Is the Seeping Scourgewing any good for a DPS Trinket?
undone sun
Unlikely, nerfed for off specs
solid drum
Damn
solid drum
Another Question: I'm gonna push Keys for the first time, how hard is Cathedral +19 this week? Any important tips?
restive scroll
Just hard focus the Poison miniboss, and probably wype afterwords. You can cc the little spiders that are with him
You can lust on first pack depending on group dps
solid drum
Was planning on lusting the first Mini Boss right at the start, y
restive scroll
seems a bit late after the pack
If you lust on pack you'll have a bit of it for the miniboss
solid drum
ah ok
restive scroll
There's no right way to do it anyway
solid drum
Do you recommend pulling the first two packs together?
solid drum
alright
I'm a bit worried since CoEn is not the easiest, and our group doesn't have the best M+ experience
Shamane Healer is really good but not a lot of experience
restive scroll
i don't know, coen is kinda middle of the pack for me difficulty wyse
solid drum
Really? Ok. I was wathching the thorough tank to prepare. He basically said it's just the mechanics wype you if you do em wrong, but if done correctly its fine
restive scroll
don't know about him, he's saying some packs are easy that would make my skin crawl, and right after that a pack is hard where i do it without thinking about it
solid drum
It's better than seat anyway
restive scroll
Indeed :)
restive scroll
I don't know, didn't see them for a while, don't remember exactly
solid drum
Hmmm. Alright, Thanks a lot for your help! π I will see how it goes. The other +19 we have is DHT anyway, so not like we can decide....don't wanna do DHT Fortified as first +19 push
restive scroll
I think dht 19 is easier to be honest
solid drum
what, really? I am really afraid of cats, bears...spiders....
on fort bears cats jumping s.o seem bad
restive scroll
bear meh. Before 23 they aren't that bad.
Spiders with a sham aren't easy indeed.
Cats, tell your range to come in melee range and safeguard them a bit. It's not enough, but it may save someone
solid drum
So, on cats basically just accept death? Really?
The Bears I am afraid of the roar, but afaik you can outrange that
But I guess since the cats are at the start you dont lose much
restive scroll
Yeup for cats. Although, with a Rdrood that stay in bear form, and only one caster i had run where no one died
even in teeming forti
and use a stun rotation too
solid drum
We have SPriest, Shaman Heal and me as Prot Tank. Probably another Enhc Shaman and a random dps
restive scroll
and yeah, the bear can be outrange, so not that bad
solid drum
alright
and for bears, just safeguard any melee, right?
so, probably the enh shaman
solid drum
ahh right. They have a cleave
Oh, quick Question. Shockwave or the Charge-Stun? I quite like the charge stun, because shorter CD and not on GCD, but with safe guard probably shockwave, right?
restive scroll
charge stun
it's out of degressive, so it's insanely powerfull
and with a melee, you can stun a damn lot
undone sun
It's also off stun DR
solid drum
Alright
neon ferry
Did Blizzard removed Ignore Pain on alpha?
undone sun
Yes
neon ferry
Are they going to change it to something? Sorry if its a wrong channel, just realized that there is a bfa specific one
undone sun
they haven't said nor given any hints Β―_(γ)_/Β―
neon ferry
I see, thanks
gilded turret
Man, eff everything about the mage tower challenge. Knockbacks, badly timed annihilations, etc etc. 110 wipes and i've run out of nethershards. Meanwhile, 20 attempts and I got prot pally's. The entire thing felt so much easier and just a matter of salvaging any potential mistake. Prot warrior feels like it demands 0 mistakes
timid jay
Like playing prot warrior in raids then
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
I do get your frustration though
gilded turret
It's not my main this xpac so i've no real practice with it at all.Well, apart from those 110 wipes π
Just feels like there's not enough dps to get the netherfiends down fast enough
I've done it with DK, DH, Prot Pally and Druid. DH... i overgeared it but it was easy enough. DK was ridiculously easy. Druid took some learning to get the range thing right. Prot pally was just practice. Prot war is by far the hardest
ember arrow
unless ur 900 i dont see how its that hard
run around infernals so they dont knockback
use BL for second dude
move out of meme zone at 6 stacks
dont need to blame a class for your "difficulty" of playing it π
gilded turret
Oh i know i'm not playing it well. But all the others allow some leeway on mistakes, prot warrior is much less forgiving
cloud bone
what are you dying too?
ember arrow
@gilded turret its mostly overgearign that makes it easy
also dks can grip the inquisitor
placid mango
until recently I had no prot legos, and in like 2 weeks got all of them thanks to rng and leftover essences
before that I ran wrists+eots and ravager
is eots+ravager still good for m+ trash?
timid jay
ravager
ember arrow
xd?
sick sentinel
best for m+ is gloves/belt/bracers if thats what you are asking
timid jay
monkaS
ember arrow
xd?
sick sentinel
oh no
ember arrow
can i die
timid jay
Ravager is worthless
sick sentinel
okey let me correct something ravager is shit
placid mango
didn't have gloves or belt until recently don't judge
i know it is
but i used it for eots
sick sentinel
dont use it try using anger management
placid mango
:>
timid jay
Anger management is better regardless of legendaries
placid mango
ok
ember arrow
literally dying is better
timid jay
Even with EOTS ravager is shit for prot, it barely does any damage
placid mango
and is into the fray valuable
placid mango
or demoralizing shout
ember arrow
yes
placid mango
what about the 5% revenge talent
timid jay
Booming voice and anger management always
placid mango
or renewed fury all the way
timid jay
Best served cold can be good if you consistently do big pulls
placid mango
arcway fortified
timid jay
I use it sometimes on teeming in certain dungeons
timid jay
Arcway it can be decent but generally RF is stronger
placid mango
who the fuck let me tank
what a fucking bozo he is
oh well hope i dont ruin his key too much
placid mango
915 moonglaives, 945 terminus, or 970 forgefiend?
gilded turret
@cloud bone belated answer: mainly knockbacks, switched the warning when on my pally so i pay better attention π and terribly placed void zone thingies that kruul does when he stomps. Ability says it knocks back... right, it slows more like it! Also knockbacks during that time period from being overwhelmed by crap π
cloud bone
if you don't get hit by too many knockbacks just charge back and you can save heroic leap for the puddles krull leaves
sick sentinel
glaives is good terminus i never used so might be good if you charge and pop battle cry
i play with arms warrior he is using it crazy good for him
but dont forget all dps trinkets is nerfed for us
forgefiend is not good at all tried it myself proc rate and damage is nerfed
its same for gorshalach
cloud bone
@gilded turret
gilded turret
pixel: yeah, I usually avoid the knockbacks but the ones i don't avoid are usually the ones that launch me at mach 3 right out of the platform π
tl;dr i need to stop failing, i know. It's still the hardest of the bunch so far, i've done DH DK Pally and Druid
placid mango
OK THEN
THAT WAS AWFUL
BUT NOT BECAUSE OF ME!
I was actually pretty good
it was awful because 4 dpsers doing 1.3-1.4m total damage
over 40 minutes
ember arrow
what key level?
junior ivy
i have a question for people who use 2 specs, like prot and fury or arms and prot
jade socket
hi
junior ivy
how do keybinds work wiht 2 specs.. im confused
i feel stupid like im missing something obvious
timid jay
When you change spec you action bars change
junior ivy
ill do keybinds for prot then i switch to fury and im like oh these make no sense
gotta redo them for dps
then i switch back to prot
and my keybinds arew messed up
and its an endless cycle?!
junior ivy
ok maybe i just messed something up.
undone sun
Unless you change the keybindings themselves, they shouldn't change like that from spec to spec
junior ivy
ok but like.. what seems to happen
timid jay
You just drag out the abilities again
junior ivy
is this
lets say a specific box on my action bvar, i keybind to a mouse button cause i prot that box is heroic leap
but in fury that box is pummel
but it still has the heroic leap mouse button keybind
is this making any sense lol
timid jay
So these are some of the binds I have as prot
junior ivy
okay and show me that exact bar in dps spec now
timid jay
And when I change to fury I still have the same keybinds to the same "slot" I just have different abilities in those slots
junior ivy
ok, so im right, the keybinds never change, just the abilities in the slot reight?
junior ivy
wait what saves
timid jay
Where you put your abilities
So you dont have to drag them out every time you change spec
junior ivy
lets say i want this slot to be a different keybind in fury
is that just not an option
timid jay
You go into fury spec
And that should be a different ability
I mean it could be the same as well
junior ivy
i am not understanding even though im trying so hard to lmao π¦
undone sun
If you change the keybind for that slot, it'll change for every spec.
junior ivy
what i want is to have unique keybinds for each spec
timid jay
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/437386874508541952/fury1.PNG
So you see the keybinds in the top right
1 2 3 4 5 F E T Β§ Q B4 B5
They keybinds stay the same
Lets take the left ability as example on the leftmost side
junior ivy
the keybinds have to stay the same?
timid jay
They keybinds stay the same unless you go back into keybind settings and change them
junior ivy
okay
so i just gotta work around that and place my abiltii3es on my bar based on the keybinds
timid jay
No matter what spec I go into those keybinds stay the same
junior ivy
riight?
junior ivy
the placement of the ability depends on the keybinds
timid jay
And so on
junior ivy
okay
undone sun
Slots are bound to a specific key, abilities are not.
timid jay
But the ability changes depending on spec
timid jay
You only do keybinds once for you characters
winged marsh
DID SOMEONE SAY FURY
winged marsh
ππΌ
junior ivy
i had like a 2 hour fury lesson last night
timid jay
Then you just put in your abilities into those keybinds on a per spec basis
junior ivy
and today i gotta put itrr into practice
junior ivy
lol sounds good
brazen lion
Are they're any good prot warrior streams to watch
winged marsh
I think marok occasionally streams his raids, not sure if hes playing prot currently tho
ember arrow
FURY GODS, i summon thee
final mist
I stream, not often though, Sense streams, Lala streams, Thyme and Cozen do, few other people.
round vortex
My stream is OCE so would be at like 1 am for you π¦
sick sentinel
i think there is also a prot warrior that does high keys and streams time to time
if you are interested for high keys
full spruce
I occassionally stream when im doing all my 15s but usually across all my 6 tanks or lower keys on my 940 alliance warrior
grim root
how is jeweled signet on prot?
sick sentinel
just another ring tbh it doesnt buff devestator
devestator and melee is two different hit afaik and it has crit haste so there are better options
undone sun
Correct
brazen lion
@round vortex I am oce, whats your twitch?
round vortex
I'll PM it to you last time i pinged here i got busted for self promo lol
ember arrow
WUT, 8 hours of silence?
sterile kayak
Just learning to tank with Prot, should I replace my 950 Seeping Scourgewing and 945 Shadow-Singed Fang with LFR tank trinkets or no?
Iβm shit ty for advice
ember arrow
dps trink proc rate and dmg is halved in tank spec
also what tank trinkets do you have LFR?
sterile kayak
None but I would run it for the trinkets if it was worth?
ember arrow
diimas, apoc drive for example are good
and as i said, its not worth equipping dps trinks
if u want dps trinkets, its better to use ones from m+
since they arent nerfed
sterile kayak
Alright cheers mate
ember arrow
π
sick sentinel
i use chrono shard for dps and if its progress and if damage isnt high i use momento
bosses like coven people always die so more deeps
crisp shore
after a quick search I couldn't find info about optimal pve RACIAL choices for prot warriors (I know it doesn't matter much, I just like to get what small advantages my skill-less ass can get) :p
gilded turret
finally on attempt number fucking 116!
crisp shore
I realise the difference is usually sub 2% for most but the extreme cases (NE for feral / rogue
undone sun
Racials are generally pretty insignificant unless it's very specific scenarios
crisp shore
yes, I understand that
undone sun
Belf for keystones and that's about it
crisp shore
surely someone's worked out if human beats nelf?
undone sun
We haven't had sims for long nor do racials matter enough to put in the work/effort
crisp shore
this is like saying deciding between similarly performing talents is pointless
undone sun
Not at all
undone sun
Different talents can have a significant difference, racials wont
At this point in the game racials are almost entirely cosmetic, the bonuses they give wont make or break
crisp shore
let's be real
perhaps for prot
that's the case
but stuff like feral gains 20-30k dps from having shadowmeld for example
undone sun
Class by class basis, we don't have anything close to similar
crisp shore
fair enough, guess i'll base my choice on racial performance for the dps specs
if it really doesn't matter for prot
ember arrow
belf is indeed best for m+
but they gettign nerfed
im guessing difference will be even smaller in bfa, unless i missed smt
undone sun
Depends on dungeon tuning for arcane torrent to either stay as strong or drop off significantly
Who knows how an aoe purge will be useful yet
crisp shore
issue is this is alliance side
ember arrow
ahh
crisp shore
playing the warrior as a cross faction alt to play with ally friends and experience ally side content
if I was horde it'd be belf / troll most likely
crisp shore
I don't mind most racial appearances
undone sun
Nelf probably then, can be useful on necrotic weeks
Dwarf comes in handy every now and then as well
crisp shore
infact my favourite race is troll generally
ember arrow
what does dwarf do exactly?
crisp shore
nelf seems pretty strong 2% dodge isn't exactly minor
ember arrow
literally never palyed ally
undone sun
Afaik it removed harj's dots
crisp shore
is the human racial a bit of a timmy trap?
ember arrow
bonus stats can never be bad rigt
crisp shore
ofc not
it seems like the sort of thing that sounds good on paper but in reality gives sub-par returns
crisp shore
this is just mainly for dungeons
crisp shore
and I genuinely dont mind any of the ally race aesthetic
crisp shore
im wondering if there's somewhere
we can look up race specific animations
if they're still a thing
ember arrow
maybe wowhead?
collosal smash uses same animation as death strike on orc
so idk if thats a thing
for example
crisp shore
leaning towards worgen, their animations are real cool
unborn island
Go dwarf, master race, and they are all scottish
gilded turret
"I don't have a drinking problem! I drink, i get drunk, i fall down... no problem!"
undone sun
Is fine, twf might not be necessary
jagged pier
Hi guys im start argus progression tonight any tips or leggys/ trinkets that are really good?
undone sun
General boss tanking bracers/belt/gloves are more than fine, legs if you're orb soaker but that's really it
jagged pier
okay cool cheers
obsidian siren
is the "memebuild" still a thing for argus?
undone sun
If it's in reach, sure it makes scythes trivial
But surviving 4 is easily doable with the CDs we have without said build
timid jay
memebuild has more value on heroic and normal imo since they dont force you to die
tame patio
What is the memebuild?
fathom hollow
is that the one where you max out your mastery
timid jay
Its for guaranteed crit blocks with SB up
pure abyss
20% avoidance if you've got it Jakey
junior ivy
omg pugs dying at high command heroic wtf..
its been so long since i pugged earlier bosses
thought itd nbe easy
also i was 7th dps on the chart in a raid with 13 dps ugh.
junior ivy
not many options when i only want specific bosses though
and somehow we ended up 2 shotting it and i got the cape i wanted anyway lol
in an argus pug now
round hornet
Cat is ally
round hornet
Idk in my exp horde grp finder has way more ppl
ember arrow
well, there goes my incentive to play ally
junior ivy
i need a stupid storm relic from argus for fury
round hornet
Could be because there's always a ton of br groups on horde and less on ally too idk
junior ivy
br groups?
junior ivy
oh yeh
languid rose
if you're high on the dps list pugging imonar i wouldn't bother trying kin'garoth
they'll have adds up
undone sun
Haste doesn't have anything to do with it, and it mostly depends on your strat. if it's normal tank swaps legs aren't necessary
stone mirage
ok ty
sick sentinel
Hey people, im currentlig proggressing on Argus Mythic, and i've trouble surving... My issue is that after he cast the cone, he one-shots me, no matter what CD i've up?... What im i doing wrong?
modern spindle
I mean ..... to me it makes no sense you are dying. Jus put spell reflect up (I use Lego pants for this personally for QoL) and imo you have hardly any issues @sick sentinel
pure abyss
You're dying to death fog or the sweeping scythe that follows?
split plinth
is it possible to get to 100% mastery?
elder hazel
is there a m+ guide?
restive scroll
Prot warrior specific or general?
elder hazel
yes prot warr specific! im gearing one to tank for keys only.. not much interest in raiding
restive scroll
Not that i'm aware of. You mostly need to find tips and tricks here and there
Thyme's reflect sheet(check pins) gives a lot of pointer
ember arrow
@split plinth yes
prisma crane
@split plinth 23000 mastery, something like that
solar hawk
how do mannoroth's work for prot? does it require vengeance and then you're using IP and revenge to proc the ability?
undone sun
Any rage spent is converted to heals, as the tooltip states it's 10 rage per 1%, also heals for full effect from discounted abilities like vengeance and free revenge's
@solar hawk
languid rose
yes
junior ivy
WHY AM I JUST LEARNING THIS
languid rose
you can't use it with another pantheon trinket
junior ivy
I THOUGHT IF I GOT IT, ID HAVE TO GET RID O FMY WRISTS OR GLOVES
SO I NEVER TRIED VERY HARD
iw ent weeks without killing argus
cause i liked my 2 legendaries
languid rose
you never off spec?
junior ivy
never lol
languid rose
4 more weeks of argus just to finish the 2nd trinket >_>
languid rose
odds of getting the legendary one are pretty bad anyway
undone sun
Very low
pure abyss
I kill argus 6 times a week across all the tanks. I've seen 2 drop for anyone in any of those raids.
undone sun
It's personal/push loot so it's hard to give an exact number without extensive maths, so it's less than 0.5%
junior ivy
oh ok , so like a mount?
undone sun
Rarer
jade socket
almost as rare as the world boss mounts
sinful vortex
mop
junior ivy
ohh ok
undone sun
Sha of anger, nalak, oondasta
solar hawk
@undone sun Yeah, I got that, but I mean how is it used? The only rage spending abilities are IP and revenge but Iβve been trying to work on managing capping rage for high IPβs and using revenge at cap before using shield slam so it isnβt wasted rage. Seems like to spend more rage is more revenges but counter-intuitive to having high IPβs. Or am I overthinking this???
sick sentinel
even tho you already talked about it
i have amanthuls
hahaha
just wanted to say this xd
jade socket
haHAA
undone sun
Ideally you never want to rage cap, spending 3 20 rage IP is no different from spending 1 60 rage IP, aside from the gcd it takes to cast IP.
You always want to have some IP up when taking damage to increase your EHP, more rage spent = more CDR and more healing from bracer(if you're below 100%)
full spruce
Random but I just got me a x-51 out of a bmah container. Wonder if I can sell it and have more gold for a nice m argus kill.
crisp shore
what's the consensus on casting revenge without proc?
kind glen
Do it for dps
crisp shore
didnt realise our rotation was this simple
kind glen
Fun though
round hornet
forcing crit block
restive scroll
it's a garantee crit block, so it's pretty neat on big packs, big blocable ability (argus ...)
crisp shore
why couldn't they have made it usable while moving π
restive scroll
because that way you can take a second to sneeze :D
solid drum
How much ilvl would you sacrifice on rings for better stats? I have a lot of haste, but am not sure if I should go a bit more for mastery, since we're doing HC Argus progress
restive scroll
By any chance, does anyone knows how to time well the "very Sinister Strike" from the seacursed Swiftblade? (Maw of soul)
They kindof obliterate me wiith a bit of bolstering
fleet pivot
the cleave one?
restive scroll
yeup
fleet pivot
spell reflect
restive scroll
"How to time", not how to handle it ^^
restive scroll
Yeup, on the logs i checked out they don't seem to have any
fleet pivot
I think they do it after the Deceptive strike often.
restive scroll
alright, i'll try to check it out next time
fleet pivot
Ya i'm looking over my last logs to see what I did.
chained cooldowns whilest they were up. The seem to do it often according to my last time in there.
restive scroll
same, but since i often need some cd after, or they are too bolstered, it's not enough
maybe try to kite them a bit more
because 8M everyone and then, non mitigable seems pretty tough
fleet pivot
how large of a pull are you doing them in?
restive scroll
depend on key level
On the last 23 i did, where i felt it bad, i only pulled one pack at a time
fleet pivot
Ys my highest log is a 22 on those
I was trying to math out how they'd be doing 8mil
didn't time in though
highest hit I'm seeing though is 4m
perhaps I'm lucky
restive scroll
The 23 log is buggy, i only have bosses, so i can't confirm what i remember seing
fleet pivot
:/ sucky
I'm only 3873 so I don't know how cool kid I am on being helpful for that. But 4 logs later I can't find anything hitting that hard. So I assume kite more.
restive scroll
Well cool kids are bdk, they don't care :D
restive scroll
Frankly i think it's more like a bolstering issue, on top of the rest
Tell me about it
they don't know how to play without grip anymore
fleet pivot
haha, so true.
I keep hoping it'll go back to dps DKs so you can just have a dps dk with you.
restive scroll
meh
fleet pivot
just wans a better meta?
restive scroll
meh, we have to prove that we are better *-*
restive scroll
have to show those mean people :/
sage sphinx
Is 4 piece necessary at high ilvls? I notice a lot of prot warriors are forgoing 4 piece for haste mastery gear
restive scroll
Don't know about raid, but in mm+ I only use it on dangerous packs
sage sphinx
Yeah - in reference to Mythic Antorus
restive scroll
@timid jay would be a way better help then
timid jay
Not necessary but its really strong for a few bosses
Aggramar springs to mind
In a lot of cases its a survivability increase but you dont really need it for a lot of bosses
So most end up just going t21 2p and aiming for dps since surviving is a none issue
merry cave
What makes it so good on agg
merry cave
ahhh makes sense
sage sphinx
Also how come most prot warriors opt to go gloves/ belt instead of gloves/bracer in Mythic antorus? Just not needed for most bosses?
timid jay
WCL is sorted by DPS so they show up first
But yeah, generally theres no need to go full survivability mode
sick sentinel
Regarding mythic Argus: after the fourth Cone of Death, you want to push him to 70% before he does the next Tortured Rage, otherwise he usually does another Cone of Death.
However, we've had some luck taunting around that point and avoiding the Cone.
Does anyone have any experience regarding that? Can you skip one of his abilities if he's fixating (due to taunt) on a tank?
I'm not sure whether or not the taunt is affecting it, or whether this might just be confirmation and selection bias on our part.
slate obsidian
the cone isn't the problem, you want to avoid the gazes that come after the cone
sick sentinel
Yes
slate obsidian
you reset his spellqueue if you taunt during the cone, that can prevent the gazes depending on his exact health percentage
sick sentinel
Alright, that sounds reasonable.
Anyone want to corroborate, just so I can point to a general consensus on this?
sage sphinx
Can anyone look at my logs and tell me where I can improve? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/mikeyxx
restive scroll
improve in what way?
sage sphinx
DPS
restive scroll
On top of my head, forget 4part, use gloves instead of belt at least, or instead of bracers if you're confortable with that. and use a dps trinket instead of Apocalypse drive
All my logs are too short to compare with yours, so i'm not sure i can help more than that
I have slightly higher uptime on DS/BC
sick sentinel
Are there any circumstances we go with TWF instead of Kakushan's?
slate obsidian
yeah, iff you need more SWs
sick sentinel
So I believe in some big dick dmg encounters like Felhounds, Imonar, Aggra?
timid jay
Unless you almost use SW on CD its not worth it
sick sentinel
Thanks mate
signal plover
@sick sentinel run warlords challenge, zerk rage and taunt once during Tortured Rage 8 and once again during the following Cone (if ur lucky) or Soulblight (if you're unlucky). It will generally buy u time (we've had it work with both blight and cone but cone seems to be more reliable)
errant wing
@sage sphinx https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lightbringer/dragonflyxx here are my logs, i have decent damage parses on prot for hc, and the gear set i wear is pretty much non changed through each fight
signal plover
@sage sphinx just comparing Vari logs, on top of what hogo mentioned u need to cast revenge more.
restive scroll
Not sure about that, i personaly don't do it much
restive scroll
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R9DfPjBL4FGJa38Y#fight=41&type=damage-done&source=19 on my mythic kill so it's a bit more long
rank meh
On heroic, shorter, but i still don't use it much
That's why i'm not sure that you need to cast more revenges
signal plover
Wot
restive scroll
edit sorry, i'm sleeping
errant wing
yah, my best hc parse on vari i cast revenge only 10 times https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XrjxWF4pnByaA2MN#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=293
stray wedge
It depends on what you are casting instead
If you get good rng and get lots of SS resets then sure you don't need to cast more
But if you're losing out on revenges to cast thunder claps or have partially empty GCDs when abilities are ready to use, that's bad
(talking about DPS purposes here)
signal plover
Yeh
@restive scroll took a bit on mobile cuz lol logs but biggest difference between u and @sage sphinx (while having similar revenge casts ) is that your RF uptime is very high while his is under 90%. This will make a big difference in general as well.
Trinkets and leggos will make big impact on his dps number as well.
restive scroll
I agree, although on the few log i checked RF uptime seemed fine
ocean scarab
Doing a +19 MoS, any tips for handling Dark Slash as prot warrior?
shut summit
wear pants / spell reflect most of them
heady beacon
Yes
restive scroll
More or less, depending on dps
i usually go reflect first, SW or (and in higher keys) LS, reflect the next 3, then CD again
on a 19 he should be dead by the 5 one
ocean scarab
Okay π
ocean scarab
Because the duration is long enough?
restive scroll
yeup
ocean scarab
Aight, will do
restive scroll
You loose less IP, so you can build it back quicker too
unborn island
Also a little riskier
restive scroll
Not really, he casts it right after
restive scroll
Demo is used on pull, won't have it
unborn island
Sorry
It a little ip
See no on pull+ max ip
Will usually live through the first (I did on 20 tyrannical, but not tried higher with that strat)
Means you buy an extra spell reflect
Do that for the first one then continue as hogo suggested
restive scroll
Sorry, you lost me loosecannon :3
restive scroll
Thing is, you loose a 12.5 sec of a reflect CD that way
unborn island
Hmmmm true I guess
restive scroll
On a 19, he might even be able to survive it with IP only to be honest
But it's also about damage efficiency. Even though it's not much
unborn island
Just depends,if he dies in 5 it doesn't matter and your way is better :)
restive scroll
x)
unborn island
When he lives longer it might help
ocean scarab
I'm having a hard time surviving high keys when I also have to get aggro of a lot of mobs. Should I just stack up IP very quickly or use other cd's?
When running into a big pack
stark sage
make use of warbringer, keep block up and be careful not to let guys hit you from behind
keep IP as needed
restive scroll
I usualy leap in (unless i have to kite), and DS/BC instantly with shield block up
depend on which packs, and key level of course
lapis topaz
Is there a reason to use leap over intercept for the pull? (I'm a noob)
heh, or should I say, "leap instead of intercept"
unborn island
intercept wastes one of your warbringer charges
restive scroll
indeed, and it's often too early to use it at the pull
unborn island
well, not 'wastes' it still stuns them, but you might need it for casts etc
lapis topaz
Okay, to restate then, the stun of warbringer is more useful later in the fight than it is at the beginning?
unborn island
if you're not running warbringer (you should be, but for example a no melee group) it doesn't matter
restive scroll
indeed
unborn island
it's more because you will usually want to keep the stun for specific abilities
and if you use it to pull
then you might not have it when you need it
lapis topaz
Makes sense, thank you.
restive scroll
I sometimes even bodypull, so i can double stun on packs i have to kite
restive scroll
i prefer the bigass pack in front of the door in HOV :p
stark sage
helpful to put a melee on focus, and have a focus macro for intercept so you can easily cast it in melee range
restive scroll
Or in mouseover, whatever you prefer
lapis topaz
Both good things to remember when I try to apply this new technique :)
I'm pretty used to using mouseover already, so that shouldn't be too bad.
sage sphinx
What does RF stand for?
stark sage
warbringer is off the diminishing returns, so you can really chain stun with your team for a long time
restive scroll
renewed fury
sage sphinx
So donβt we want high RF uptime ? >90%?
sage sphinx
What is the best DPS trinket for prot warriors?
restive scroll
#showtooltip Intercept /use [@mouseover,help,nodead][help,nodead][@target] Intercept
Mouseover on a friend prio > current target
helpfull for quick safeguard
sage sphinx
Besides Amanβthuls
If I wanted high DPS output for a boss fight
Like garothi Mythic etc
stark sage
a lot of top logs use pantheon + memento/diimas
there isnt any clear obvious choice, mostly just what you have available
sage sphinx
What boss does memento drop from?
stark sage
fel oiled is nice
prisma crane
of those, imo, it really just comes down to whichever you have that's the highest ilvl
memento gains favor in pugs or guilds with reckless players
or argus
lapis topaz
I bought (via veiled argunite) a level 910 Impenetrable Nerubian Husk (http://www.wowhead.com/item=137430/impenetrable-nerubian-husk&bonus=1826:1497#comments) . I don't see this trinket anywhere in the Defensive Trinkets list. Is it just garbage for raids?
timid jay
Yup
lapis topaz
Well, bummer. Heh.
primal crypt
I'm actually really liking my 980 nightmare eggshell
Seems to proc a lot more often than when it first dropped for me in the beginning of legion
But it's a lot of strength on it
Although at this point, I'm learning I'm lacking a lot of static haste
Feels like gaps in mitigation at the most inopportune moments
:/
stark sage
how much haste are you at