Can someones explain to me why prot warriors have such massive mastery for argus is it just to crit block scythe?
#protection
brazen lion
undone sun
It's a meme build, 100% mastery (23k) allows you to always crit block when you have shield block up
Pretty much trivializes the scythe damage but not necessary to run
timid jay
Scythes are easy enough to deal with as a prot warrior anyway, its called a meme build for a reason. Best use of it is in heroic/normal where taking additional scythes wont damage the raid
undone sun
Yeh, on mythic there's zero reason to stay alive for the 5th and on
And that can easily be done with the basic, non-meme build
brazen lion
Ah good my concern was with mastery being that strong that stacking it so much was necessary
timid jay
Its not needed at all, in my experience haste makes it easier just because of the SB uptime and extra CDR through AM
What difficulty are we talking about here?
brazen lion
I would only be tanking Heroic.
timid jay
Aight, well if you want to get ridiculous high stacks then memebuild is really good for it
But for any normal tactic and group going for the standard gearing is more than fine
We handle scythes really good with just base blocks
brazen lion
You spoke of haste it was my understanding that 30 is necessary and anything past that is whatever or is it that powerful ?
timid jay
30% is a year old breakpoint by now
undone sun
Nowhere near necessary
timid jay
That was back when we played HR and before it was changed with the coming of devastator
The breakpoints now are more geared towards offensive DPS, but the same old ilvl > haste > mastery => versa >> crit still holds true
brazen lion
Ah okay then, at the moment I'm sitting 29% Haste, 71% Mastery, 14% Vers, 13% Crit, Running 2pc T21 and Bracer with Prydaz
timid jay
As long as you're mostly focusing on ilvl thats fine
warm plinth
71% mastery, hot damn
brazen lion
Yeah the only high ilevel i have is about 5 upgrade and Ill gain crit
timid jay
My issue with stacking mastery for the scythes is how unreliable it is
warm plinth
That's a lot of mastery XD
timid jay
before you reach 100% mastery its just a dice roll, cant plan around it
warm plinth
Do you have no other legendaries besides bracers and prydaz?
brazen lion
I only have the intercept chest for prot
undone sun
Rip
warm plinth
That doesn't actually count as a legendary unless you only have 2 legendaries XD
warm plinth
Ah, yeah you don't wanna use that with T21 2pc
Tbh though I wonder if chest might be better than Prydaz just for a stat stick
timid jay
Prydaz shield is still decently big
warm plinth
Yeah. And I guess DPS-wise haste is actually better than str according to sims?
brazen lion
I would lose stats swapping plus it was mess up my tier
undone sun
Great way to pad HPS even more
warm plinth
Damn that reminds me; I still haven't simmed myself. I keep forgetting.
timid jay
@warm plinth Depends largely on stats, for me Str is best point for point
timid jay
Your haste is abysmal though
undone sun
Str being the second to last
timid jay
FeelsBadMan
undone sun
Yeah
warm plinth
Yeah just like any other DPS sim I suppose. Weights are dependent on the gear you have
undone sun
And it's at 981 ilevel
warm plinth
You're 981 equipped?
timid jay
Yup
undone sun
With my gloves/ahr dps set, yes
warm plinth
Dayum
undone sun
978 with gloves/belt
warm plinth
My war needs some TLC. I'm so behind on him. Got 3 toons blowing him out of the water now
Damn, actually 4. Even my never-played windwalker is 4 ilevel higher than he is equipped
undone sun
Lol
warm plinth
Letting Skyhold down D:
undone sun
Gloves/Belt https://puu.sh/zUuHU/df170c6096.png
Gloves/AHR https://puu.sh/zUuI8/40e2f1f200.png
timid jay
Tried to sim
undone sun
Just resimmed and they definitely have changed
timid jay
sim_signal_handler: Segmentation fault! Iteration=415 Seed=4980697057106666894 TargetHealth=7.07773e+08
oof
undone sun
Using the t21 tmi boss?
warm plinth
Haste at 19 D: What's your haste at in that set?
undone sun
Which set
warm plinth
AHR set
undone sun
26%
warm plinth
Damn and it's still weighted that low?
Will be interesting to see what mine show as. I wonder if my crit is low enough to make it not the bottom stat 😂
warm plinth
And that's why I'm a patron
undone sun
Wtb skyhold premium account Kappa
deft sapphire
didn't you already pay marok for stormforged
undone sun
Lol
timid jay
Didnt we all?
undone sun
If anything it'd go to archi since he actually runs it Kappa
deft sapphire
stat weights are a bit weird for prot
idk what exactly the haste poitns are that cause it
timid jay
20% and 50% should have a big impact at least
warm plinth
Haste is kinda iffy for most DPS specs in SimC. SimC likes to take weird breakpoints into account, or unrealistic actions based on certain levels of haste.
timid jay
Rest I guess is mostly fitting in another BC or so
warm plinth
Usually you can just go in and add ~400 haste and re-run weights and see what happens. If it changes drastically, follow the new weights. If it doesn't, you're usually okay to follow the ones it originally gave you. At least, that's how it works for the few DPS specs that I play when simming.
undone sun
Hmmm
timid jay
That doesnt seem right
undone sun
👀
junior ivy
thymes weapon is over 1000 ilvl wow
warm plinth
Cosmo's is clearly over 9000
timid jay
Its so annoying you can use the exact same SimC input and not get that segmentation fault when you run it yourself
warm plinth
What is TMI
timid jay
Theck-Meloree Index
The TMI bosses dont really have much to do with TMI though
TMI bosses are just a standardized boss for different tiers and difficulties
junior ivy
whaat is theck meloree index
warm plinth
Hmm, I see
warm plinth
So is that what's supposed to help determine RFDT? Or is it largely irrelevant now?
timid jay
Its just something to adjust RFDT through the bosses damage output
warm plinth
Gotcha
undone sun
Higher dtps because the previous boss profiles hit like a fluffy pillow
timid jay
What boss and time did you have for your sim Thyme?
timid jay
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ajwwt5kRuKpF3MX5XxTtps
Hmm, time to change back enchant
deft sapphire
idk i gave you an apl that casts diimas or not LUL
timid jay
31.28 haste and 22.16 for str
warm plinth
Just seems weird that your haste weight is high with high haste and Thyme's is low with low haste. I wonder how it's determining that
timid jay
Maybe I'm just close to a breakpoint
Thyme's sim with gloves/belt is also really high on haste though
31.66 for gloves/belt vs 19.17 for AHR/Gloves
Belt probably scales really well with haste with the extra CDR it brings
AHR doesnt really have any haste interactions outside of having LS up for every use
deft sapphire
you dont need any haste to really have LS up for it
timid jay
My haste is so high I wouldnt know 😎
undone sun
😭
deft sapphire
plus even if you didn't have the cdr youd just delay ahr 10 seconds or whatever
undone sun
Yeah, it doesn't use diima's
deft sapphire
not a big deal
timid jay
Delaying AHR 10seconds becomes a really big deal if it makes you get 1 less use out of it though, but I guess that rarely happens
3p?
undone sun
No off pieces
timid jay
oof
undone sun
Well, only one i have sims lower
timid jay
That back is a bit monkaS as well
undone sun
Again, highest simming
timid jay
Yeah I dont doubt it, its just unlucky with the haste
undone sun
Yeh
deft sapphire
just get a 975 tier cape like me
undone sun
🤣
timid jay
Oh I guess that matters for AHR
deft sapphire
he needs to make sure he gets the extra health for when he doesn't sim with AHR
timid jay
🤔
timid jay
Not that amazing for ST tbh
undone sun
Yeh
undone sun
Lol
undone sun
Only difference is cloak
undone sun
@chilly hemlock
timid jay
Whats your haste at?
deft sapphire
25
timid jay
🤔
deft sapphire
basically get anything besides crit, which i already knew i guess
timid jay
Fwiw, a TMI_T19N seems to be roughly on par with my RFDT from aggramar/vari mythic
The sims make a lot more sense at that rage level
The dream would be able to set a RPS from RFDT though, that would be sick to have
undone sun
Hmmm
undone sun
Yup
timid jay
The increased RPS from RFDT was much smaller than I thought it would be
~5.5 RPS from RFDT simmed 1.496M
0 RPS from RFDT was 1.411M
warm plinth
@timid jay I was referring to his AHR sim that had haste weighted at like 17 or 19 and he only had 26%
timid jay
Yeah its mostly likely due to what I stated
Belt scales much much better with haste
gloves dont really scale well with haste either
warm plinth
Yeah I wonder if the breakpoint you're hitting is getting another auto attack in BC
So you'd have another buffed SS
sick sentinel
deft sapphire
@warm plinth it’s inconsistent cause you line up bc with gcds not autoattacks so it wouldn’t be synced at all where in the swing timer your auto is
There should be a small one around 25% but otherwise idk
delicate urchin
u was say dimma not rly good for st, but 945 sim higher than 925 haste stick and 940 chrono
deft sapphire
Well it’s definitely better than a haste stick at 925 just cause of ilvl but I’d take a 940 chrono over it
white valley
I am intix. Did i die simply because im too squishy for the fight?
I think i was too squishy
deft sapphire
defintely
white valley
Was i doing my rotation okish?
warm plinth
Why did you only use Spell reflect for one strike?
white valley
I didnt know you could reflect it, and since it didnt stop the misery i thought you couldnt reflect it
deft sapphire
it still mitigates the damage by 50%
white valley
Oh
deft sapphire
also you never used bc or demo shout
warm plinth
Yeah, the reflection is only one aspect of Spell Reflection. It also reduces magic damage taken by 50% for 5 seconds.
warm plinth
Check the pins in this channel; there's a spreadsheet that lists all blockable/reflectable abilities in both Antorus and all dungeons.
white valley
Lol yeah ill actually look in to tanking. Ive never invested any time or effort in to tanking. It was just a last minute thing of "Oi can you tank this" i was like uhh ill give it a try
/dead
deft sapphire
well anyway, you never used bc, which is a really big deal considering you have t21 2p as well, and you are using the wrong talents
warm plinth
Spell Reflect and the fact that IP isn't affected by Misery makes us one of the best tanks for that fight.
white valley
How does bc work for prot? Is it same as fury? Increases crit for 6 sec?
deft sapphire
also with HR talented you still only blocked 57% of the attack
warm plinth
5 seconds for prot instead of 7
undone sun
The duration is different but functions the same
white valley
Fuck it stop wasting time with me, ill just read the guides after raid tonight
warm plinth
With 2pc T21, you can spam Shield Slam during Battle Cry; it removes the CD for the duration.
white valley
Ty for your help and input everyone
warm plinth
👌
white valley
Oh my
So i can just generate a fuck tonne of rage during bc windows to then spam revenge/ip
warm plinth
Yes, but you shouldn't use vengeance with 2pc T21 because you can't weave effectively.
white valley
Oh ok
Well yeah ty everyone. Im gonna have a break before raid. Will invest some time reading the guides on how to tank.
warm plinth
Cool. Feel free to ask if you have anymore questions.
stray wedge
That's not the reason you shouldn't use vengeance with t21
The reason is just that you have so much rage, AM is really good, which makes BV good
And the DPS benefit of course
T21 2pc if you are using AM does mean that it's not worth using revenge during BC, of course, so it reduces the power of vengeance in that sense, as well - I guess that's what you meant tbf
chilly hemlock
@timid jay @undone sun 👋
Here's the list of the preset TMI fights :
T19L, T19N, T19H, T19M, T21
Anything else will be treated as null
Gonna try and make it easier to use for bfa
timid jay
That explains why all the T21X I tried gave the same result
Assume it defaulted to the T21?
chilly hemlock
I think if you input a setup that doesn't exist it will default to "none"
here's the code for it, gonna look up what exactly "none" does
timid jay
Tbh, doesn't really matter. Thanks for all the profiles though 👌
chilly hemlock
I only did the T21, did it when antorus was already the out
I'm assuming all the other profiles were done during beta/EN/ToV and maybe NH
hmm, looks like if you don't input a known fight type, it will just use the latest one
so inputting anything but T19L/T19N/T19H/T19M will use T21 😃
timid jay
Well that explains it all
Thanks for clearing that up, made me a bit confused why T21 L/N/H/M all did the same ^^
Turns out it was all a ruse
timid jay
I just expected them to be implemented since it didnt throw errors
Usually how I make simC do stuff
chilly hemlock
Haha, same
Also you were saying that T19N was closer to hard hitting fights in terms of rage gen ?
timid jay
In terms of RPS, but then again you have very different damage profiles and 100% boss tanking uptime
Compared to vari/agg logs which have casting and downtime in them
chilly hemlock
3000000, 4600000, 6200000, 8000000, 12000000// T18 -- L-H values are estimates
};
als += "/auto_attack,damage=" + util::to_string( aa_damage[ tmi_boss_enum ] ) + ",attack_speed=1.5,aoe_tanks=1";
als += "/spell_nuke,damage=" + util::to_string( aa_damage[ tmi_boss_enum ] * 1.5 ) + ",cooldown=90";
als += "/melee_nuke,damage=" + util::to_string( aa_damage[ tmi_boss_enum ] * 2 ) + ",cooldown=60";
als += "/spell_dot,damage=" + util::to_string( aa_damage[ tmi_boss_enum ] * 2 / 15 ) + ",tick_time=2,dot_duration=30,aoe_tanks=1,if=!ticking";```
Here's the boss apl used : only the base number changesignore the t18 comments
timid jay
Boss doesnt stop auto attacking though right?
chilly hemlock
I don't think it does
I just band-aided the old profiles that didn't even have nukes
timid jay
If you include all the downtime on vari for example to the T21 profile then it wouldnt surprise me if its close
chilly hemlock
Gonna try and make something better for bfa
timid jay
Currently I just see it being worthwhile to try and match the RFDT to logs just for a baseline, RFDT is a bit of a annoying think to work around
But if they keep RFDT, the dream would being able to input a fixed RPS from that into the sim
signal plover
Ayyy lmao
signal plover
Imo he shouldda just to fully commit to the meme
signal plover
That's a DK main for ya
junior ivy
i almost took ravager in the seat 21 i was having a hard time with, on last boss
would that have been really stupid?
restive scroll
Yeup
junior ivy
it was cause i was having issues with aggro on all the little adds
restive scroll
On last boss, you can run Crackling thunder, and tell your dps to come closer to you if they get aggro
Thing is
Ravager is static, and dps take aggro on little adds a lot
so it wouldn't help much
junior ivy
i did use crrackling thunder it helped
restive scroll
Plus, AM is really bad to loose
restive scroll
Or to have intelligent dps
stark sage
ravager wouldnt even hold aggro its dps sucks
restive scroll
(i know, i'm silly)
It's a really hard boss to tank anyway, don't be too hard on yourself
restive scroll
Not that bad =)
unborn island
did you use sunglow pots to make the void zones easier to see?
junior ivy
NO, IS THAT A THING?
unborn island
yeazh
the army of the light vendor sells them
makes the room lighter
hardly anyone knows it
i always tell people
they ignore me
and then complain they can't see them
restive scroll
Does that count as a combat potion?
restive scroll
omygad
junior ivy
omg i neeeeeeed
restive scroll
that's insane
unborn island
no downside
it doesn't completely trivialise it
but makes it a lot easier to see
junior ivy
a warlock just got really offended and mean when i asked his m+ score after he wanted to come to my lower kara 21 group
his ilvl is 937
restive scroll
\o
I'll try it out @unborn island thanks a lot
Does it helps on saprish too by any chance? :p
Got a rogue friend who doesn't see well!
junior ivy
whats saprish
restive scroll
2nd seat boss
junior ivy
did they make it so you vcant cheat at barrels???
unborn island
They fixed that a long time ago iirc
uneven beacon
timid jay
uneven beacon
timid jay
junior ivy
k bout to do lower kara 21. scared.
lower kara 21. omfg. what. how. how do people do this
this is insane
well that fell apart
junior ivy
yup first boss was .. wow
we tried maybe 6 times
everyone in group but me was 3500+ score
we couldnt come close
gonna lower it to a 15 and build it back up
ember arrow
first boss is easiest
wikket
did the 23 yesterday on dk and was oneshot, moroes on other hand
junior ivy
its beauty and the beast
junior ivy
lucky 😦
junior ivy
and holy priest healer
ember arrow
RIPPP
ye u need locks, hpal etc
thats the one wit the frying pan?
and the broom?
ember arrow
ye the soup spray is on random ppl
if it casts twice on same person
its death
thats why u need locks and hpal
they can take 2 hits and/or sustain themselves be4 getting hit second time
ember arrow
u used discord?
one dps must kick heat wave
or u
at all costs
@junior ivy The best order is: Mrs. Cauldrons > Luminore > Babblet
u did that?
unborn island
It was wikket for me too
junior ivy
yeha but we couldnt evne kill cauldron
ember arrow
cat*
unborn island
Aye
round hornet
ye its the brooom/soup/fire one in NA
tepid carbon
How is eye of shatug compared to the other antorus trinkets? With the low hp it feels pretty good to get a bigger health pool
stark sage
i wouldnt use it over diimas on most bosses
junior ivy
it was votw
tepid carbon
What about apocalypse and codex vs shatug??
turbid horizon
Aight so I'm on a low pop realm, 972 geared, just ran into org solo and nearly killed saurfang before they managed to kill me during cc
im gonna try again later
restive scroll
@unborn island Tried out that Lura tips, thanks a lot
round hornet
@tepid carbon checkout that pinned guide to trinkets
Different trinkets have different uses you know what I mean.
ember arrow
@tepid carbon codex decent for m+ on aoe situations
apoc drive really good vs hard hitting enemies defensively
stark sage
apoc is also decent in m+
ember arrow
sahtug is pretty meh
stark sage
or am i thinking of agg
ember arrow
but decent for the stam and vers for ehp
round hornet
Yeah
ember arrow
why u need to see any raidframes as tank
its not like u can do anything if ppl get low
cant u just disable raidframes in ui?
junior ivy
i dunno how
😦
i like my colourful small raid frames
i dunno how to get rid of ugly blizz opnes
signal plover
There should be a small arrow in the top left area of screen
It's also under interface settings I think
Been awhile since I've needed to mess with em
signal plover
There's also good general awareness reasons to have raid frames up. Range highlights/alpha for one. They don't have to be very large for us tho.
strong hill
I don’t have my raid frames up. When I see “ dead , dead “ pop up I get angry.
signal plover
Sounds like a personal problem?
ember arrow
i mean, i did m raiding without raidframes
never felt like i needed them
i jsut focus cotank
signal plover
I mean, personal UI choices 🤷
round hornet
more useful as a dk/druid/pally
delicate urchin
3rd brh boss, when he get 100 rage, huge hit blockable?
sick sentinel
charge blockable yes
robust bronze
Are aggramar's conviction worht using while tanking? i dont see it on the trinket guide
undone sun
Yes, it's a lot of main stat and benefits the raid
very rarely would one actually need both trinket slots for survival
ember arrow
@delicate urchin u mean haymaker? its not blockable as far as i know
but on warr he shud never get full rage bar
since we block his melees
undone sun
mellow dove
i see this term on tooltips etc but what is "Massive Damage"?
delicate urchin
ye, he didnt get any rage.. thx
turbid horizon
I feel like asking what MASSIVE DAMAGE could possibly be is a... strange... question
mellow dove
well
its a term frequently used in tooltips for abilities
like for example: https://i.gyazo.com/b97c59b8d87da00020d7b7244d9fbf78.png
or the resto shaman totem
that resurrects ppl
"Cannot reincarnate an ally who dies to massive damage."
undone sun
Simplified so everyone can understand it, pretty much meaning it has an overkill cap
mellow dove
i see
stark sage
a catch all to stop some cheesing
mellow dove
smoldering titanguard seems to do the same thing then? i tried to solo soak an lfr flamerend for fun and got hit for 30m damage lol
undone sun
Not necessarily, that actually says how much it'll absorb
sick sentinel
@undone sun where did you get that info on dungeon bosses if a dmg is blockable or not?
sick sentinel
I wanna lvl a prot warrior,which heirlooms do i need to buy?
true bear
the plate ones
round hornet
@mellow dove someone told me it was 200% of maxhp overkill would go through stuff to prevent 🧀
Sometimes I can use it after dieing on argus scythes other times I can't so its annoyingly low tbh
sick sentinel
No shit sherlock
undone sun
I know AD and brez totem has that function but never heard titanguard to have it
stark sage
heirlooms dont matter much, just pick the haste ones
chilly hemlock
200% max hp overkills are for tank based cheat deaths
undone sun
@sick sentinel he's right, there's no specifics, it's leveling and leveling is less than 1% of the actual game so it doesn't matter
chilly hemlock
such as Ardent Defender or Last Resort
sick sentinel
Ok ty guys
chilly hemlock
not sure about Purgatory, and no idea if that's the same for healer based life savers
round hornet
I think it is for the bres totem at least
undone sun
100% it is for totem
round hornet
dunno bout GS, I think Odyn's spears could kill me through it but I don't remember?
chilly hemlock
yeah I know it has a cap
but no idea if it's the same 200% max hp as the others 😅
round hornet
I don't think titangaurd has something like that though, it just has a set absorb amount I think?
chilly hemlock
yeah would be weird if a trinket designed specifically for that wouldn't work in those situations
delicate coral
@Voldotmort#7053 as much haste as possible
warm plinth
@mellow dove Unless Flame Rend is somehow able to go through the effect, it should work fine
mellow dove
yeah thats why im puzzled
warm plinth
Here's a screenshot to show that it is not held to the 200% health restriction
mellow dove
unless he had a bunch of burning rage stacks
warm plinth
Yeah, though it should still show that you absorbed however much damage, even if it killed ou
you*
mellow dove
cuz i checked damage numbers mid pull even
warm plinth
It should show like Mob A did X damage (A:damage)(O:damage) if you died to it, the A being absorbed and the O being overkill damage. That's really odd that it wouldn't work though; I'm fairly certain I've heard of people using it specifically for Flame Rend before 🤔
merry cave
I've used titanguars to soak high tyrannical shared suffering and not died so doubt it's capped
warm plinth
Yeah so it's showing that you absorbed 37,196,540 but you took another 10,471,509. So it worked properly.
mellow dove
he had no stacks of burning rage so the flame rend dmg shouldn't be increased
adventure guide says it only does like 30m dmg
or 25
warm plinth
Adventure guide is not correct most of the time
mellow dove
yea kk
compact geyser
anyone have an opinion on sugar-crusted fish feast vs lavish suramar vs azshari salad. The prot guide didnt mention the fish feast ^.^
warm plinth
Depends on stat weights
mellow dove
aren't the first two just 475 vs 375 verse?
stark sage
fish feasts are 2% verse afaik
warm plinth
Lavish suramar feast is 500 str
undone sun
1%
compact geyser
So I did some sims. Haste food ends up winning (i think) . Does the apl already use haste food though?
ooo
I found the options ^.^
quick garden
how can it be, that there protwarrior doing over 1.3 milion dps on fights like garothi where they have to kite the bomb and have downtime?
dusky mica
you cooldown the bomb and stand in melee like a prick
quick garden
aren´t you bombing them away?
undone sun
Well you stand off to the side where no one is
dusky mica
you can run out a bit just before, then you get blown into the boss from the left
undone sun
And get launched upwards, also the easiest way to pop AHR
quick garden
but you still, there logs aren't showing that they use AHR
astral crystal
just roll 
undone sun
🤦
quick garden
parry-chance sounds legit ^^
hard wedge
hey all quick question. In general, other then the wrists, what is the best pure defense lego? The walls fell or the belt?
undone sun
In terms of effect, neither are pure defensive like wrists are
Twf being the closest but still provides rage generation which is helpful for both sides
gloves being #2 bis with belt close
hard wedge
yup i understand wrists are bis for defense but what the number two for raid?
ok i see u think gloves are better then belt and twf?
undone sun
Gloves
quick garden
there are fights where the wrists are usless, vartimas i would go with AHR+Pants mybe even with the classring for stronger IP
clear sapphire
@hard wedge most are situational. Depending on wether you want survivability or DPS.
Gotta find what works for you in conjunction with specific fights
If you want more specifics, pins and warcraft logs are your bet friend and can answer almost all Q's. Just takes individual effort
hard wedge
that's what i originally asked XD i was wondering just a general overview of pure defense
quick garden
there is no more progress raiding, just go full Dmg (cosidering HC raiding ofc)
rocky imp
Any prot weak auras you guys love that arent listed in faq?
rocky imp
Cool thanks for the link
jade socket
if dks didnt have leech prot paladins might be a thing in upper at least
hard wedge
so is it not worth running 4pc 20 - 2pc 21 anymore? i really like how it works with anger management.
quick garden
i did swich to 4pc- 21 because of the higher i-level, i recomend it to try it out by your self, you will feel the difference
little rain
It's not that prot war isn't great in UK, it's that you can't do 4 dps without Vampiric Aura
That's literally all it is
Well that and you can AMS for Mana Devourer
shut summit
yup
merry cave
Yeah prot war Kara nerf was totally necessary 🤔 🤔
timber nest
warm plinth
But would people have been using prot warriors for upper without the nerf? Surely it would still be faster doing the entire dungeon with an additional DPS?
In the time trials i mean
jade socket
you could still do 4 dps and prot war
warm plinth
Oh I thought you needed the group leech from DK to do it with 4 DPS
warm plinth
That makes more sense then
jade socket
its not live yet
sick sentinel
hmmm nerfing that simple thing but not touching other stuff
why am i not surprised lol
sick sentinel
at least its nearly end of xpac so doesnt really matter i guess
@ember arrow right we were already best pick ever so some nerfs there shouldnt be a problem
ember arrow
exactly
sick sentinel
we have the leech we have grip we have cheat death
ember arrow
dk only have cheat death when talented
u dont usually take it below 22+
dependign on how comfortable ofc
ember arrow
soaking 23 orbs on mmana devourer wih AMS and not getting stacks
see no problem wit that
totally how its intended
on dk its probably called "clever use of game mechanics"
jade socket
I mean other classes can do the same thing
no other class is killing a boss in 30 seconds though
yeah ofc dk is really good but trying to justify that prot warrior didnt need the change for medivh is pretty mong
sick sentinel
How common is getting the prot hidden appearance?
Like, does it pop up easily, or is it totally RNG and could be tomorrow, could be months?
ember arrow
its rng yea
sick sentinel
when there are more important 'balance' problems i think its just stupid
of course there will br some classes stronger some not but having big divide like this is a problem they should look at
when there is only dk tanks and resto druid and holy pally healing i dont know
jade socket
They aren’t just going to hotfix and make huge class changes for the mdi randomly
When it’s something small like the upper change it’s pretty easy and sensible
sick sentinel
they didnt include some of the trinkets which made sense
making one or two class ability changes just for mdi would be a wise choice imo
not for live xpac is ending soon but at least it would be fun to see some prot pally there also
merry cave
No one would of used prot war anyway, killing medivh in 30 seconds isn't worth the loss of leech cooldown on 4 dps comps which tear every boss apart. Also doing the mana worms quickly on a +22 is infinitely easier with dk vs every other tank
I get why they nerfed Sr on it, but I seriously doubt you'd see that many still over bdk
glacial lynx
There a reason so many guides on M Kin'garoth says swap at 2 stacks of forging that I dont know?
Any one know ?
undone sun
I've never seen that
junior ivy
is it common to do +26 in the timer
winged marsh
common? no
fathom hollow
junior ivy
oh just cause this random guy told me he did a 26 cos in timer
and i was surpris4ed
surprised*
junior ivy
26 though thats crazy
winged marsh
yea for sure
still wouldnt be a cakewalk by any means
the last boss especially can be really hard
junior ivy
dont think it was this week
undone sun
That's even more impressive if it was
junior ivy
im onky surprised cause hius score is 3100
and i thought people who do 26s would be like
4000
winged marsh
if your regularly doing 26s in time its much higher than that
slate obsidian
undone sun
Yup
winged marsh
I like Raider.ios character pages more 😛
glacial lynx
Alright just double checking any point in taking 2 forging strikes on Kin garoth?
undone sun
Definitely more user friendly
@glacial lynx no point
Can't think of a reason to ever take 2 stacks on mythic
gentle jay
have no good trinkets in prot. Which mythic dungeon drops the best trinket for prot that i should be grinding?
undone sun
DHT for WHoD
and hope to get Shivermaw from relinquished
gentle jay
thank you DHT it is
hazy umbra
You got great trinket in arcway too
merry cave
Sounds easier to farm coven
warm plinth
❤ you @timid jay
timid jay
What did I do now 👀
warm plinth
What didn't you do
timid jay
Im never productive in blood
warm plinth
lol
undone sun
Not like you are here either Kappa
warm plinth
😂
timid jay
oof
warm plinth
Discord needs like a counter that will keep track of every time a stormforged answers a question
So we can find out how many more Thyme gets just because he's a faster typist.
undone sun
i've definitely slowed down recently ¯_(ツ)_/¯
But when i was most active, i'd likely have him beat
warm plinth
That's cool; just makes me feel less like I'm being redundant to make myself seem knowledgeable by submitting my response immediately after yours.
undone sun
Lol no big deal, just think of it as enforcing what was said
timid jay
You can aim for the BfA prot stormforged
warm plinth
Yeah, for sure. #goals
timid jay
Doesnt look like prot warrior will be my cup of tea at least, so 1 SF spot will open up
undone sun
😬
warm plinth
RIP
undone sun
Don't worry, it takes quite a while for marok to get around to demoting 😉
timid jay
oof
timid jay
UNLIMITED POWER
timid jay
Templar is just pin though?
undone sun
Pretty sure it's the Manage Messages permission which is delete messages and pin, yes
Ah, so there's sub roles that have their own uses https://puu.sh/zVfUn/0979d999e2.png
timid jay
Nope, we have no heals that can crit
stuck coral
Ok, thx 😃
weary fog
Does anyone have a Crucible Weight string for Prot Warrior dps? Or do I need to use raidbots relic compare on every option, now that I see we have working sims now?
undone sun
But.... relic compare is a bit iffy for us because of RFDT
warm plinth
PFDT
Not vengeance discord
undone sun
😅
weary fog
I like to have weights for a quick glance and then sim everything that's remotely close. But I can just sim every option and take those witha grain of salt if I have to. What's PFDT?
warm plinth
😂
undone sun
Meant RFDT, Rage from Damage Taken
deft sapphire
thyme confirmed traitor
warm plinth
^
deft sapphire
you gonna be tanking in bfa too?
undone sun
Probably, idk what class though
Likely warrior and paladin as my 2 priorities
Will definitely keep the spell reflect spreadsheet up to date so that pretty much requires me on warrior
deft sapphire
fair enough, although ew prot paladin
warm plinth
👀 Currently leveling LFD prot paladin 😅
ionic fern
Well, they finally figured which one is the real Prot class. 🎣
timid jay
oof
warm plinth
ionic fern
😄
undone sun
Unless blood gets a massive rework, that's a no go
Personally i'm not a fan of energy based classes so monk is 👎
Druid is, well druid
restive scroll
Btw @undone sun I meant to offer, but didn't have time. But would you be ready to update the reflect list for the Mm+ trash too?
restive scroll
Their's a fair amount that are really interesting
undone sun
And did add a few additions like the sentry's in CoS
restive scroll
Didn't check it in a while
undone sun
Really it'll only be the most noteable ones like the Duskwatch sentry's
restive scroll
gonna take another look
I don't know, the reflect break armor from HOV/MOS is always nice too, for exemple
warm plinth
I find monk to be second only to druid in boredom; static rotation 🤢
undone sun
It was a note in the old old list where we just didn't add basic abilities like firebolt/frostbolt/magic spells because it would just be tedious and redundant
@warm plinth same
restive scroll
Of course for those, i though about the less obvious ones
undone sun
CoS addition
restive scroll
That's pretty nice
Yeah, there's not that much that isn't obvious, at least not much that comes to mind
warm plinth
Can't wait for all the Legion newbies in BfA to start asking why x spell didn't get reflected when it's on the spreadsheet and it's because they mistimed it and reflected something else instead.
warm plinth
Tbh that is going to suck not having the 5 second window, not even for the reflecting though. Just gonna miss the 5 sec 50% reduction tbh :/
I wouldn't be mad about that at all
granite basin
if your goal is to push keys, do you lean towards defensive relics or dmg ones?
dim token
I think rift is very good am I doing it wrong 🤨
It procs very often and heal for quite a lot
little rain
Riftworld Codex's performance functions seemingly exponentially with the amount of meeles you take per second. On tourney realm, since I dont have one on live, it was pretty insane for those 20 mob pulls but kinda meh to trash on smaller pulls
undone sun
Pretty much, sub par on ST and scales exponentially on aoe, really only used on trash packs with high aoe
stray wedge
@little rain it's not exponential with the amount of melees you take, not in the sense you mean that anyway
It scales at an exponent of less than 1
So it scales actually worse than most DR trinkets or e.g. apocalypse drive
Because the aoe fire thing scales linearly, and the other two procs do not scale, with the number of targets
When people say something scales 'exponentially' they are ordinarily referring to an exponent of larger than 1 :P
wanton vapor
Are the bracers and fel ring BiS for prot?
undone sun
Bracers defensively
TWF only if you have tier combo it's second to bracers
Otherwise Gloves/Belt/Bracers are the top three
With legs being very niche but very strong for when it's useful
ionic fern
Go back to prot pally chat, it's dead w/o you guys. 😦
undone sun
Lol
undone sun
Yes, it's a stun
drowsy geode
alrighty then got a choice to make 😃 Aggras, Soul or Seph
undone sun
Charge itself should as well considering it roots them
drowsy geode
that moment i realise i sold my 940 boots by accident and they arent in the buyback window anymore
mortal carbon
item recovery
drowsy geode
am i able to do it in game or do i need to go to the site
timid jay
website
drowsy geode
thank god for that, really dont want to be stuck with Aggras
still plank
What neck enchant for dmg for mythic+ is it Satyr or Claw?
vagrant bridge
I'd say Satyr, since it'd crit during battle cry, and claw is devalued for the same reason
However, why I came in: Why for 4/2 split are we recommended to take 21 helm and chest? I do understand about the stat distribution, but wouldn't taking t21 gloves result in better secondary distribution anyway?
round hornet
Armor str and Stam are usually best defensively iirc than secondary
vagrant bridge
So, basically it has to do with the gaps between them growing larger, so the amounts of base stat on the 21 pieces grows more relevant when they're more than 15 ilvls apart?
but if, for example, I had only base ilvl 915s from HToS and 930s from NABT, I'd probably use the gloves rather than the helm?
dry crane
@timid jay get on discord
sick sentinel
@vagrant bridge its because marok counted them heroic base ilvl
if you get titanforged or warforged their valur will change and after certain ilvl you might also want to go higher secondary stats just because you can easily survive
snow osprey
Hey guys. Yesterday I looked at t20 set bonus and had my jaw dropping&crashing....
Is it any worth farming ToS to get t20 4p + t21 2p?
I've never ran t20 thus I can't gauge the profit based on my experience... Is it worth this ilvl difference? is it worth more than having kakushan?
signal plover
Decent starting discussion of this in the pinned guide. Have you checked that out?
snow osprey
moreover, t20 has more haste on it than t21 does... I feel like if I get t20 + t21 I'll even get more haste overall.
at the same point I'm afraid I might start capping rage too often
I think I have, but I do not recall it 😦 sorry. Probably when I was reading it I didn't pay attention to t20
I'll check it out
signal plover
U always have IP to dump rage so you shouldn't cap
snow osprey
well, yes 😃 also it benefits to AM
timid jay
I wouldnt recommend going back farming t20
Unless you're farming mythic its not really worth it
snow osprey
I'm probably capped at heroic 😦
thanks @timid jay
However, I'd like to check out that discussion anyway. @signal plover which guide were you refering to? there'are several guides
junior ivy
we cant open our chest for another hour right?
signal plover
It's just another cloak anyway :/
timid jay
Its 1 day for me 😦
snow osprey
@signal plover found, reading . thanks. indeed, it's at least interesting to know
timid jay
Its a bit inaccurate, idk if it was ever fixed
It undervalues t21 4p a bit and overvalues the tier combo a bit too much
west kayak
@junior ivy Yes Cat, one more hour.
west kayak
Wont happen due to it being from a Raid but something comparable/useful would be nice.
junior ivy
really? why woint ith appen
west kayak
M+ Chest only drops dungeon gear, not raid.
junior ivy
hmmmmmmm
timid jay
Not antorus gear, but from the other raids
junior ivy
so definitely no dimas...
west kayak
Shivermaw can happen.
snow osprey
I've got 925 shivermaw from relinquished. it's OK
west kayak
Shivermaw
junior ivy
who is shivermaw
snow osprey
its dropped in Amethyst 😃
west kayak
From the only dungeon that cannot be M+'d
junior ivy
makes sense
snow osprey
also, on ilvl 925 shivermaw gives you about 1920 versatility for 1 target
so 5 targets give you almost 10k versatility
on 1 minute CD
oh yeah. and sweet stamina stat stick
unborn island
I dunno, they managed to make BM quite hard back in the day, but I guess it still wouldn't work with the whole timer aspect
junior ivy
guess im gonna play tjhe sims 4 until chest is ready to open
snow osprey
lucky you. my chest is in ~17 hours only...
although I'm okay with the idea to drop the work I do and play sims 4 for the rest of the time.
near dirge
is 4pc/2pc still the way to go?
unborn island
Only if you have super high level t20 and no reasonable off pieces/high level t21
Personally have never used it.
west kayak
I play Screeps during my downtime. Or Gloomhaven if my kids are at Grandma's. 😛
west kayak
I actually got an upgrade. 970 Mastery/Haste belt. Up from my 960 Haste/Mastery.
west kayak
haha.. err, I wish to express my deepest condolences...
prisma crane
Iwould not
west kayak
For 5ilvl I would not versus the loss of haste.
prisma crane
i get about nothing ever, so i cant wait for the disappointment i'll feel after work lol
junior ivy
lol well i hope you have better luck t han me this week
cinder pasture
Meanwhile I haven't even done a M+ on my warrior yet this week 😄
west kayak
I usually get nothing. I haven't had an upgrade drop in Ant for at least two week.
Oh, and I have never, ever, gotten a single piece of loot from the Argus chest. I have received my Blessings and Pantheon trinkets but nothing else. 😦
junior ivy
ive barely beenr aiding last few weeks
a coven pug here and there, helping friends when they need a tank on certain boses
but mostly just m+s now
prisma crane
yea, sometimes it's nice to just chill and do 5 man
cinder pasture
Last upgrade I got was a 980 riftworld codex, but other than that; nothing for a few weeks 😦
west kayak
I don't Mythic raid, just N/H for other raid groups. M+ mainly as well but I dont push keys, dont have the time or patience.
junior ivy
i got my usual mythic pug which will be thursday, im hoping they dont do it tonight
because im going to the movies later
and i wanna get elisande mythic done this week
itll be my 4th kill so ill get the thing
next goblet
this is embarrasing
but i almost ripped off this tank numerous times
i was forced to slow it down
prisma crane
it's erroring out for me
prisma crane
IP uptime isnt worth looking at
just pay attention to rage gen and have no wasted rage
then just make sure if you're taking too much dmg that you're not wasting rage on revenge over IP
next goblet
now in these logs im doing much less dps than the other tank but im almost ripping off them constantly.. is it because of the 3p/2p?
4p/2p*
daring aspen
This link works https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZX4cTLK1x6fYbhWP#fight=1
prisma crane
2p T21
prisma crane
neither of you did much dmg
prisma crane
yea, hmm
junior ivy
getting started on m+ early, my sisters making me do her cath 20 right now lol
gotta take full advantage of this easy week though
daring aspen
No idea why your link returns an error
prisma crane
he's got 2p T21, idk, using a shit trinket though
next goblet
i mean my trinkets arent all that great either O.o
prisma crane
i guess, but it's not a parjesh
next goblet
true
daring aspen
Oh you double linked but disco shortened the link @next goblet
echo cloud
960 shadow relic no ETW not better than 935 with etw feels bad man gotten 4 960 relics I cant use so far....
i love rng I just love it
prisma crane
etw?
next goblet
any criticism for me though?
echo cloud
exploit the weakness
prisma crane
that's arms, right?