derp
#protection
warm plinth
Which he also won't switch out of. "You can't change my mind" when someone tried to convince him to swap to BV
ember arrow
i feel like hes the pug warrior i end up with
cotanking
of which i get aggro the milisecond his taunt expires
warm plinth
I'm scared to ask him if he's running Indomitable
Because I feel like I know the answer
stark sage
i dont get it, i see so many bad warriors who are like progging normal still thinking they are the best fucking warrior NA
warm plinth
π
warm plinth
Dude that's what's getting me about him. He refuses to believe he's wrong and won't even accept proof
M+ Friends
round hornet
yeah I see lots of warriors who ignore advice and what not, because they have been playing for 12 years as prot
ember arrow
what chat?
undone sun
π€
warm plinth
Like I'm definitely not the type to flame usually but I get triggered so badly by people who won't admit they're wrong when it's proven to them.
undone sun
Lol
round hornet
I liked preachs recent vids where he made a new account and does pugs as a fresh dude with no gear/achives/score and sees the elitism from bad players
some funny stuff
warm plinth
I don't typically like his videos but that sounds fun to watch lol
stark sage
there is this weird crossover of bad players who have prestige and good players who dont
and its funny to see them colide
ember arrow
same way i cant join groups for m+ on 955 bdk
because im not 970, and cleary i am incapable of tanking weekly 15 then
stark sage
lul seriously
ember arrow
yup
stark sage
your below 4k must be trash
ember arrow
i need to link m kills
round hornet
ye he has a series where hes trying to get a +15 and aotc done all pug from scratch as a dps
kinda funny
vivid slate
@round hornet itβs actually a decent little series for folks that arenβt in dedicated guilds
round hornet
and if they do armory they can see that I have all these achives
vivid slate
Funny to see him flaming about the pug world
ember arrow
decline
round hornet
lol, I haven't had much of an issue pugging 15s on my alts
usually peeps are petty desperate for a tank
and healer*
round hornet
weird, everyone loves bdk
round hornet
@vivid slate idk it looks like he just invites whoever queues up first
seeing as how half his complaints are that the ppl he invitres don
speak english
ember arrow
that was to be expected
obsidian siren
hey bois, i got questions on the mythic ID system
Say a hypothetical BDK goes clean the first 4 bosses in a PUG
can he join his guild ID on imonar later in the week?
stark sage
which is annoying
languid rose
helm haste/crit, neck mastery/crit, shoulders haste/crit, boots vers/crit
plz send help π¦
round hornet
I mean you can gear them, just gotta carry
languid rose
weekly box is just tormenting me
obsidian siren
Already got to carry de DPS --'
languid rose
because i have like 28% crit
upper spoke
yeah take ilvl
sage sphinx
Is 39% haste too much?
Also, should I go for TWF or belt for single target raid bosses?
prisma crane
unless you have 117% haste, defensively, you cant have too much
i tend to go with TGV for ST dps over TWF
for surv that depends on whether or not you need the additional SWs
sage sphinx
For rage generation isnβt TWF better?
prisma crane
I'm not sure
would take 30 SS to make the same rage as a DS
so it comes down to how many SS you ahve and how many additional DS you get
likely more rage from TWF
but then again, you have no STR on TWF
so you're losing out on a max ilvl itemization for primary stats
simc should be working, i heard it's down but maybe working now? can always test it
languid rose
you're forgetting the 50% more rage from shield slams/thunderclap during DS
merry cave
Krotos what happens at 117% haste lol
shut summit
You explode
round hornet
belt prolly if ur not using 4pct20
sage sphinx
Iβm losing 7% haste though
32% to 39%
I do gain 17k HP, 3% mastery and 1% versatility
split anchor
got 4 set from antorus and I was wondering if I should use ring of the battle lord or sephuz?
fleet galleon
Neither. What are your other options?
Actually, depends a bit on what content you're running
fleet galleon
Sephuz is decently good for M+ if you can reliably proc it, which you should do on trash and some bosses too
split anchor
but you know for max dmg without hands
fleet galleon
Belt is best for AoE
split anchor
with battlelord then?
fleet galleon
Max damage, I'd go belt and Sephuz
Battlelord isn't very useful once you get Antorus 2 pc
No time to vengeance weave
Too much rage to spend without wasting
fleet galleon
If you can proc Sephuz, keep it. Else, get better legendaries, I guess.
sage sphinx
How do you simulate tanks?
fleet galleon
Might switch to walls fell for extra rage but it's marginal on a dungeon boss
Ararat's is good on certain bosses too like Ymiron, Ularogg and Medivh
split anchor
working ion getign hads
fleet galleon
And you simulate tanks as you do any other class. @sage sphinx
undone sun
You don't
junior ivy
are people gonna be able to see my m+ score now that i transferred realms? sometimes i cant see peoples scores and they say "its cause i transferred realms"
warm plinth
@junior ivy Check their FAQ or something; there's a way to like assign the old character to the new one on there that you have to do manually.
sage sphinx
How do I burst DPS without stealing aggro from the other tank?
junior ivy
i was expecting worse
warm plinth
@sage sphinx Get a better co-tank :/
undone sun
^
warm plinth
My girlfriend was able to keep aggro without T21 2pc at like 915 when I was 943 with T20 4pc + T21 2pc. If she can do that, then no tank has any excuse if they're playing properly.
languid rose
cotank in this pug just did 211k dps, he was starting tank and i somehow took the first 3 shadow strikes without taunting
warm plinth
Well, doing 211k DPS is definitely the problem there lol
wispy spire
whats the best t21 slots i should go for?
warm plinth
The ones that aren't gloves and are highest ilevel
wispy spire
ahh ok
timber nest
is strength food better than any other food option for dps?
undone sun
Yes
junior ivy
are shadow priests good in m+ ?
undone sun
Not particularly
junior ivy
awwww
i wanna invite this one to vault 19 because its a pink pigtailed gnome
my sister knows me too well
sage sphinx
Will my parses always be blue until I get the gloves?
round hornet
no
well maybe, depends on the fight I
cuz I got some purps on M Vari with Leg/AHR
sage sphinx
Is Riftworld Codex better than apocalypse drive?
timid jay
Very different use cases
RWC is mostly for general m+ usage and apoc is mostly against high damage autos
sage sphinx
Which is the best for Mythic raiding?
astral crystal
first boss from vault?
junior ivy
yeah
astral crystal
block
undone sun
Shield block, it's an am check
astral crystal
otherwise the dude gains a shield
junior ivy
i thought i was being such a good tank spell reflecting every single one
i didnt bother with SB at all
lol
we wiped 3 times on him.. ugh
astral crystal
there's why
junior ivy
it was a +19
the last 4 bosses were clean easy fights
buyt we missed timer cause of that
ancient ore
do we have a website like the monks do or no
undone sun
Not yet
There is badtionofdefense specifically for prot but only has t21 and crucicble ATM, one for all three is being worked on though
ancient ore
just wanted to know cuase im kinda been blindly using what ever spell im using and dont know thw rotation
undone sun
Definitely some useful guides in the pins though, work perfectly fine until the website is useable
broken hemlock
is 4set t21 good for defensive buuild?
scenic venture
YEET
ancient ore
also my friend told the the ring legendary the walls fell was better then the gloves and belt rn is that true
sick sentinel
4set is ok for ST tanking but after certain ilvl its not
4 set is good for tanking 2+ mobs so you will get that IP buff more
i stopped using my 4pc after i got around 10-15 ilvl higher pieces but i dont really know its ilvl worth
round vortex
4 set is much stronger than people think. Even on single bosses. I'd argue that you shouldn't really consider ilvl too much but more so jsut ask yourself this question:
Will this encounter pose significant chances of shock damage, ie: dipping low unexpectedly. If yes - use it, if no - use 2 pce.
undone sun
4pc does provide a noticeable about of extra "free" absrobs throughout the fight as long as you're blocking damage. In those terms it's not far off of the tier combo
round vortex
Yeah i mean in context of the 2 pce +ilvl vs 4pce arguement
sick sentinel
iwoo got a 970 diimas!
undone sun
Nice
sick sentinel
witness the collection of diimas now
blissful whale
old zephyr
hey, is there worth to lose T21 4p to gain 25ilvl on a helmet?
exchanging poly (set) with haste (Ilvl)
sick sentinel
only if u dont care about defense @old zephyr
other way round 4p should still be stronger
π sup guys? π
old zephyr
Okay thx. Def is not my First concern but I wouldnt want to sacrifice too much of it
neat sable
which version of the Eye trinket should me and my Blood dk off tank be using?
undone sun
Shatug I'd you need the ehp, but don't use it just for the effect, it's marginal at best
neat sable
hmm ok ty
sick sentinel
@old zephyr yea got ya .. 25ilvl kinda harsh downgrade, even more if ur stats are gud. But, just get a better tier thenπ
sturdy willow
thyme i thought u were on vacation -_-
undone sun
I am
sturdy willow
breh...
undone sun
Vacation from you
sturdy willow
oh thanks man
undone sun
Lol
smoky oak
O O F
delicate coral
hello
clear spindle
I was doing Ant HC on my Blood DK alt, and my co-tank was a supposed 960 eq prot war (4 set leggies everything), but he kept on being stubborn on playing Indomitable, Vengeance and Heavy Repercussions. Even after I told him he will have problems keeping aggro with them, he didn't want to listen, I kept overaggroing him with basic rotation even I stopped pressing abilities and my auto-attacks overaggroed him. For the record it's 945 blood dk with sephuz and chest so it's not like I have good legendaries for dmg. All he was saying is he doesn't want to learn from someone like me ?! like what xD Heroic pugs sure are fun! π
undone sun
π€’ unlucky
warm plinth
Well, to be fair, I highly doubt that his talent choices caused you to overaggro him with auto attacks. I'm certain I could hold aggro regardless of my talent choices off of another tank provided I did my rotation properly.
clear spindle
Yeah, but playing at the very least Devastator and Anger managment would have helped him a lot
warm plinth
Oh absolutely. He's still an idiot π
clear spindle
One of his excuses was "At the later bosses I will need HP" xD
warm plinth
Oh dear
clear spindle
Oh he managed to get leader at Portal Keeper and kicked me xD
Good luck on your wednesday clears, hope you don't run into too many idiots π
warm plinth
I don't have to worry about that because I don't raid π
delicate urchin
965 haste/vers neck VS 960 haste/mast? same amount of haste
solemn kelp
Morning all
Which relic trait is your favourite, given the choice, Vrykul Shield Training or Dragon Skin?
warm plinth
I'd probably just go higher ilevel if it's the same haste personally @delicate urchin
@solemn kelp I prefer Vrykul Shield Training
solemn kelp
Yeah more armour attracts me more than higher pain ignored.
old zephyr
Yeah but formation better tier I need aggramar HM an my guild have trouble
delicate urchin
im mostly use panteon+statstick/dimma
warm plinth
Does avoidance work on bursting? I'm guessing not?
ember arrow
no
burst itself does no dmg it onl applies dot
AMS on dk can prevent stacks, but on warr use SR
warm plinth
Yeah I know; I was asking because someone asked me in another server. I was pretty sure the answer was no but wanted to double check π
sick sentinel
AMS just op.
To dust with with all that memetanks! Lets make prot great ...eh....again!?
restive scroll
Why "make prot great again"?
Tank warrior were always the best *-*
(beside rogue tank on illidan, that was pretty fun)
sick sentinel
Dunno was it ever great after classic?π
@restive scroll dont take it too serious dude..haha
restive scroll
Why, because you jokeZ much? :D
(ok that was bad, i won't do it again, promess :()
sick sentinel
Way too much - lul
restive scroll
^^
turbid horizon
@sick sentinel is way too jokey for a serious warr like me
sick sentinel
Oh yeah ...Fear the serious @turbid horizon!π±
I mean..he tanked Harjatan Myth once. He didnt even had a light smile on his face while that. Serious mofo!
ionic fern
I saw somewhere (probably not here) a table that showed how much which keystone level had the damage/health modifier..does anyone have any idea where i might find it?:D
warm plinth
The M+ Friends Discord has that.
warm plinth
yeah give me a minute and I'll DM it to you
ionic fern
β€
turbid horizon
I tanked all of Normal NH too
ionic fern
Pretty sure i was told that tool was busted.
sick sentinel
Okay all forgiven then @turbid horizonπ
ionic fern
Well, the general idea was to figure out how much Dark Slash hits on tyrannical with specific keystone levels so i could figure out what to pop.:D
sick sentinel
With SR - not so hard
swift willow
How about Spell Reflect ? x)
ionic fern
<- Paladin. π
ionic fern
Mean. π¦
swift willow
How about not playing Paladin 
sick sentinel
Only as serious as a JokeZ could be! Kappa /s
ionic fern
Sorry, i can't hear you over the misfortune that is warrior high m+.
π
Jokes aside, thanks for the pages. : )
sick sentinel
Uuuuiiiiiiiiihh KKKKKK!
sick sentinel
Did i actually mention that i hate Paladins?π€
warm plinth
Also if anyone needs higher M+ tips, there's also mythicplus.io. I have only glanced at it since it was linked to me earlier but looks like it has some useful information
sick sentinel
@ionic fern no worrys dudeπ all the π for u!
warm plinth
@ionic fern I actually can't find the one I was thinking of for some reason, but mythicpl.us has a chart for the multipliers about a third of the way down the main page. It's just more annoying to read than the other one I saw.
ionic fern
Well, i found this one:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/344529126000033803/409052262267355166/opera_2017-10-20_13-06-51.png
sage sphinx
Hi guys I have a problem
I keep stealing aggro from our blood dk tank in raid
So this is hurting my parses since I have to throttle damage
Anything I can do about this?
sage sphinx
When the loοΏΌ
turbid horizon
Just tell him to do more dps
ionic fern
He has to be doing more than half of your DPS for him to lose agro iirc.
So if you are doing 1m he has to be doing below 500k
sage sphinx
When the blood dk taunts swaps, do you all give him a second to build threat?
ionic fern
And if he is doing below 500k then he is either very undergeared or doesn't know how to play.
sage sphinx
Or do you go balls to the walls BC, DS and SS spam right away?
ionic fern
I'm pretty sure this doesn't come down to blood DK in specific, rather the player.
ionic fern
So no logs?:(
sage sphinx
There actually just have been instances in the past where Iβve stolen aggro back and wiped the raid because I blew my BC DS shield slam spam
Such as on varimathras
ionic fern
I mean if he just taunts and auto attacks then you will most likely steal agro back after the 3s taunt window ends.
But as i said, if you showed us logs we could tell you in more detail what's wrong.
sick sentinel
Yeah .. i mean .. beside the fact that tank dps parses dont count a shit regarding ur Raid healthiness (especially when u wipe them with tryin it!). I guess u can talk to him to optimize his taunt windows and all should be gucci
If he just waits his whatever most threatgen cast before he taunts off he should be more than save with keeping aggro
green prairie
https://gyazo.com/66f00c75fbdf8f0339428e7c3cf4b7e2 this or aggramar trinket?
sick sentinel
Aggramar trinket is more of a niche-use trinket
hushed swallow
How much i lvl is bastion worth?
sick sentinel
U generally just wanna use it on BIG solohit mechanics ..like Maiden ToS was or on few m+ bosses
....maybe π€ personally i didnt even rly use it anywhere in m+ so far.
@hushed swallow 7/7 bastion so freakin stronk, u can basically nearly ignore ilvl defensive wise
drowsy geode
I use the Weak Aura Bar for IP, question though, i often see it go red which as far as i can tell means its gone over the max amount that a regular IP can do thanks to Dragon Scales, refreshing it drops the amount down to what my max IP would normally be (for Example my max is 2.98M and i often get one thats about 3.5M) assuming i have the rage im guessing i let it tick down till the last possible second before refreshing it unless it drops below my normal max IP so i get the benefit of the extra absorb?
chrome falcon
"you have entered too many instances recently"
on the fucking tournament realm for time trials
holy shit blizzard
we've reset like 5 times
sick sentinel
Sounds legit @drowsy geode
But would refresh it if Rev on CD and ragecapped too
waste IP > waste rage
Btw. does this bar take 4p buffed IPs into account too? I never looked at that so far.
drowsy geode
im not sure tbh, ill try and get a screen grab of it
sick sentinel
I mean .. i didnt track 4p anywhere yet. Just curious.
drowsy geode
i havent got my 4p, still gathering up gear, ilvl 930 atm, just dropped my T20 2P and gettnig use to not hitting Revenge all the time or i get Rage starved
left number is my current IP, Middle one is what i get if i use IP at that time (also indicated by yellow bar) and the right number is the Max IP i can gain, i would guess that if the 4P triggers it jsut adds it onto the current amount
sick sentinel
π
Yea. Guess so too. Not a big deal either cuz it does most of its job anyways.
drowsy geode
4P isnt really something worth persuing is it? if i can get it with nicely ilvl pieces awesom but if i get a better ilvl piece i can drop it? (as far as i can see fromt he guide in any case)
also just to make sure im understanding it right, our Mastery is a % chance whenw e block to proc right? so if i have a 30% chance on mastery it only occuirs when i block something
sick sentinel
Gtg fast .. catch up my lil one π back in 1h, than ill awnser ur stuff!π
signal plover
U don't really need t21 4pc so if u have better pieces use em.
snow osprey
@drowsy geode don't bother over 4p. IP is often removed by a single autoattack from boss in a raid. 4p gives you tiny benefit to your IP only if its up. Since IP is often removed very fast - you wont see any gain from it....
thus. get 2 pieces. AFAIR, best choices are chest and cloak (stat wise), and look for a best upgrade in terms of ilvl \ stats in other slots
junior ivy
which of these would be easiest to beat this week?
i dont know which dungeon to try and do
to improve score
proper pecan
just try the biges one u can find
thry pain u'll become stronger
@drowsy geode can u link that bar wa plz
drowsy geode
@proper pecan https://wago.io/IgnorePainBar there it is
proper pecan
ty
junior ivy
ty ill try those
i used to f ind cath easy
but now that 2nd last boss...
keep having trouble on him
people wont kill the portals fast enough
turbid horizon
Whats affixes tbis week
junior ivy
skittish, bursting, tyrannical
drowsy geode
i havent tanked a skittish yet, how hard is it to keep aggro normally?
turbid horizon
Yo easy
turbid horizon
Its basicallt a free affix tbh
junior ivy
i lkike skittish week
sick sentinel
Hm.. i dont see that guy with portals been that much off an issue anymore
turbid horizon
I rarely get threat ripped off me, it can happen if you're competing vs and arms or fury burst on huge aoe
junior ivy
i need an arcway bad π¦
turbid horizon
But other than that its not that bad
junior ivy
hoping to find an arcway 19 key to do
sick sentinel
I personally drag boss to right one instantly on pull
And switch to 2nd spawn when first is down
Spellreflecting makes it such a joke on prot π
junior ivy
oo i might do a BRH too
sick sentinel
Its like "oh there they designed some cruel stuff ... oh i just dont giva fck and SR"
junior ivy
lol yeha i feel so powerful when i stand outside the circle and SR
last time my friends on discord were like GET IN THE MIDDLE HURRY
im like 'nope'
sick sentinel
I like BRH tyran π€· ezepeeze
turbid horizon
I hate BRH tyran
sick sentinel
Never heard AMS ..has to be memeshit
turbid horizon
Everyone else just gets one shot
sick sentinel
Yea 2nd one is the real movement crusher π smacks everyone 40+ irl
misty mica
Hey, can someone explain me why there are no prot warrior in the top end of mythic+? does it means it will struggle in 22+- as well, or it's only cutting edge sort of thing?
snow osprey
@misty mica mostly It's because it doesn't have much utility, I guess
mythic dungeons are all about utility
BDK has a lot. grip, BR... slowdown for necrotic. AMS for necrotic.
thus it's the king of mythic
also,vampiric aura is applied to entire group, right?
when vampiric is cast
turbid horizon
And incredible amounts of self healing
the ability to ignore mechanics
purgatory
snow osprey
tclap has a major drawback - you must be among the mobs to slow them down. you cnanot slow them down from far apart like bdk does
broken panther
Warbringer into tclap wins
snow osprey
oh yes. probably one of the most important parts for M+ dungeons is self-sustain. DH and DK have it.
turbid horizon
prot pally too
snow osprey
I know, I main a prot pally. but for some reason, they are not much welcome in M+ as well.. I dont understand why though
misty mica
I am only a month back after a long break, but I thought warriors have very strong self healing legendary? or it is not used for serious content?
snow osprey
mannaroth is great, but it does not heal you THAT much
broken panther
I'm just doing 22s, nothing cutting edge but me dying to regular packs doesn't happen
snow osprey
if you cast ignore pain you'd heal for approximately 8-10%
turbid horizon
it's a saftey net if your healer is preoccupied
strong hill
The bracers are nice but not as good as what a blood dk can heal themselves for
turbid horizon
Ignore pain is the majority of your healing
jade socket
Also the only reason that tank is a warrior in that pic is because itβs upper
timid jay
^
turbid horizon
^
jade socket
The dk normally tanks
junior ivy
are there m+s in BFA?
timid jay
Yeah
snow osprey
since MDI exists I belive M+ dungeons are here to stay
misty mica
well was hoping I could tank on my warrior again but I guess if I plan on doing mianly m+ with it I better find somthing else : /
snow osprey
@misty mica you can tank. but if you want to push some 20+ keys.... probably not
misty mica
seems like they are not popular as dps in m+ either π¦
ember arrow
u can push keys easily
unlessur doing +27s
warr has no problem with surviving
only no utility
broken panther
The word utility gets tossed around without much quantifying it. 30% redux on intervene damage and a stun off dr seems like utility to me
ember arrow
not good enough
snow osprey
@misty mica again, for the same reason... even when you're only doing the damage you're expected to bring in soe utility into your group...
ember arrow
gorefiends grasp is too op
snow osprey
that's why warlock is very frequent member of M+ groups
broken panther
What's cd on aoe grip?
snow osprey
1.5 minute
ember arrow
1.5 min
snow osprey
with a talent
ember arrow
in m+ u always take that
theres no real choice
vampiric aura, mass grip, normal grip
dk can interupt adds 4 times
kick, grip, massgrip, asphyxiate
snow osprey
I dont remember.. do mass grip CD reduction and DnD slowdown are in the same talent tier?
ember arrow
if u run outa cds, pop dnd and run away
also dk have cheat death
they just got a lot going for them
broken panther
4 eZ with protection warr. Kick, 2 Warbringer stuns and another kick.
But really..who doesn't have 1 melee to help with that
snow osprey
you cannot run warbringer standing close. you need to jump away. showing your back to enemy.....
snow osprey
oh..
ember arrow
thats why warbringer is so good
snow osprey
well. although warrior got some interrupts... time has showed that BDK is more preferable. that's it.
broken panther
Wow...that just changed the game for u u
ember arrow
warr is fine for m+, uless u wanna do 24 or higher
then its gonna be pretty difficult
things like votw, brh u can do, i did
but dont step in +25 arcway on warrior
death sentence on trash
also mass grip is not only for the interrupt, it also increases group dps
if u can place all adds at one place every 1.5min
snow osprey
and for an easier control. grip + root \ slowdown
ember arrow
also VB is a guaranteed "press skill to not die for 10 sec" button
sick sentinel
Gimme more boiis! alrdy loggin in on BDK. lul
soft lotus
hey! Basic question (I'm only ilvl 930)... The guide suggests a priority of Shield Slam > Thunder Clap, and weave in Revenge when high rage.
However, I feel like Shield Slam > Revenge, weave in Thunder Clap is both more smooth and more dps. Any comments on that?
sick sentinel
Rev on CD is what u do if u wanna dps yea.
soft lotus
okay
sick sentinel
Where does it say SS>TC>Rev?π€
snow osprey
depending on how many targets you have
soft lotus
the google doc, 2 sec I'll find it
sick sentinel
Defensive wise u use Rev only on freeproccs
snow osprey
you see, revenge costs. if you use TC and Rev to bait free slam - you prefer to use the TC first as its free
sick sentinel
And TC just always when SS on cd ..somehow?!π
snow osprey
also, I'd say that talent choice also matters here. Is "Revenge" talent taken? I don't recall how its called in english, sorry...
the one that makes IP \ Rev cost less
soft lotus
I got class ring as first leggo, so yeah I use that, so that's a motivator, ofc
snow osprey
oh, I see
sick sentinel
Oh okay. was assuming t21 2p
soft lotus
but still, when I tank, I feel like I don't run out of rage, so it's easy to go SS > Rev > TC
maybe that changes with harder content :P
snow osprey
what content you're doing now?
sick sentinel
Rev weaving + ring messes that rota up ofc
soft lotus
I'm 930, so only mythic+8 about
snow osprey
you're probably playing mostly offensive now... later on, defensive aspect will be more important and youll keep rage for IP π
snow osprey
also, if oyu get a hand on mannaroth, you might use rage for self healing through IP
sick sentinel
For now without 2p t21 and with talentring .. SS> IP/REV (weaving) > TC should be a thing
tc more on big AOE and lowrage then id say
snow osprey
You've got a lot of rage since you have both Vengeance and Booming Voice
when you take the ring off, you'll notice that rage needs managing
soft lotus
ah okay. I guess that's it. I feel like I'm swimming in rage :P So I felt the SS > TC bit was unnecessarily defensive. But yeah, the talent seems to be the big difference
soft lotus
ye, always maintaining TC stacks
snow osprey
I wonder if using soul-ring beats kakushan in terms of rage generation...
never actually thought of a soul-ring as an option since I got it just recently
sick sentinel
In what vaccum ur talkin?π
snow osprey
and already had kakushan, belt and mannaroth
@sick sentinel just wondering if having both booming voice and vengeance beats kakushan... leaving DPS aspect, plain "IP per minute casts" probably π
sick sentinel
Yeah its jusz t21 2p which does the FAT cut through that thinking.
snow osprey
high rage usage works well with anger management, which works better for frequent BC, which itself gives a lot of rage
sick sentinel
I did try to value ring on AOE scenarios with t21 equipped
snow osprey
ofc I keep 2pc in mind π
sick sentinel
But glad i just found other legys π
sick sentinel
not.
sick sentinel
If u got all other legys just cut ur beautiful ideas π
snow osprey
oh, by the way... do you run AM or HeavyR defensively?
sick sentinel
I was on same track and just gave it up
snow osprey
well.. I've got kakushan, mannaroth, belt, chest, both rings.. kj, boots, sephuz, prydaz....
and legs.
probably everything one might desire
sick sentinel
I didnt play HR once in raid after i got 2nd legy tbh .. if u know what ur doing it might have values in current tier on some bosses. But generally ..just dont do it
signal plover
HR hasn't had much use in a long time
sick sentinel
Some on HR plays on Argus i guess? Didnt grind the logs that much
signal plover
Maybe KJ progression if u were having effective uptime issues
sick sentinel
U play it with 100% memebuilt π
snow osprey
seriously? I've been running it for a while, and just love seeing high shield block uptime after BC SS spam...
gotta reconsider my talents π¦
signal plover
U should easily get close to 100% effective with AM
sick sentinel
High sb uptime is just not the thing to focus π€·
snow osprey
but... Shield Block does not have its CD reduced from AM?
snow osprey
oh, ok..
sick sentinel
Its all about CDR and ragedump
snow osprey
got it
with mannaroth, rage dump makes sense
should I always run Booming voice with AM? or is it OK to go with Vengeance?
signal plover
U'll rage cap with veng if u have 2pc
snow osprey
I do have....
signal plover
Difficult to weave fast enough
prisma crane
impossible *
signal plover
Err...not possible yeah
sick sentinel
Unless u extend ur solotanking to questionable values .. as soon as tankswapping drops in u got time to refresh sb stacks anyways
signal plover
That's what effective uptime means jokez
snow osprey
I do get high rage frequently, thats true... but at the same time I can acumulate ~5m of IP, and self heal with mannaroth
undone sun
Excluding tier, vengeance is fine with am but with t21 veng becomes unusable
snow osprey
since you can cast IP off CD
sick sentinel
@signal plover was just arguein against HR plays in general on current gears
signal plover
As was I
snow osprey
HR felt very nice on HC Argus
signal plover
But u made a comment against high SB uptime not being a big focus. Overall uptime is not a big focus but effective uptime should be
snow osprey
but not sure if I need it on other bosses
signal plover
Just clarifying that.
I think the CDR from AM outweighs HR even on fights like Argus, especially if pushing high scythe stacks.
timid jay
Extra DS doesnt really hurt either
snow osprey
I'm asking because I'm trying to evaluate how belt looks in this concept. like, should I take belt on a single target fight for purpose of CDR of DS?
prisma crane
that or TWF,
signal plover
Especially since it gives big rage bump to dump into AM reducing all CDs and then the perpetual cycle keeps going cuz u'll get battle cry back
snow osprey
or should I just stick to kakushan + mannaroth
prisma crane
bracers excel with constant dmg taken, not bursty dmg taken
signal plover
Bracers and belt or bracers and sw ring or belt and sw ring can all work
Depends on inc dmg like krotos said
snow osprey
you imply that gloves are unnecessary?
signal plover
No
snow osprey
lets imagine I'm not doing M+, but only raiding π
signal plover
Gloves are useful and still strange when ur mixing in dmg as well
prisma crane
gloves always, unless running 4p2p
signal plover
Strong*
snow osprey
I simply dont have t20 to run t21+t20...
prisma crane
then gloves always
snow osprey
roger
2nd lego choice? ring (walls fell) felt quite weak to me since Shield Wall is used as a "fuckup prevention scenario" and mostly not required unless something went wrong
signal plover
Shield wall should be used preventatively imo
snow osprey
currently I'm swinging between belt and bracers
prisma crane
depends, but TWF gives a ton of additional rage as well
that's actually the primary reason we use it
timid jay
In most cases bracers are the strongest defensive leggo
snow osprey
Ofc, SW is used preventually. I'm taling about cases whne 2nd tank died and you expect high damage, etc... like, SW is not used to consume boss hits normally, active mitigation + DS maybe is mostly enough
thus, I didn't feel like I have an urge to wear the ring
signal plover
It's situational on bosses
snow osprey
but maybe im doing something wrong π
signal plover
U can cookie cutter with gloves and belt/bracers/ring for most everything
sick sentinel
@signal plover alright. Yea maybe i phrased it bad in this case. Not focussing sb uptime for sure was meant like ...dont keep a hard focus on it besides the proper baseline uptime w/o HR. Thx for hopping inπ
signal plover
Ya that makes more sense
sick sentinel
mobiles discord fcks my output anyways ..gosh it takes years to write a proper sentence here
signal plover
Ya I wasn't even able to type in here cuz of input lag for like a year and half and it just suddenly unfucked itself like a week ago
Just lurking since NH
prisma crane
that's around when i started as well i think
fun place though
slightly over 30k posts now....
sick sentinel
I just tryd to find a name on list i just had first letter of in mind
Dont do that.
undone sun
Lol krotos
sick sentinel
Scrolls forever
prisma crane
well, with 20k ppl, you're gonna have some work
yea Thyme, i type too much, plus padded by me not typically writing paragraphs and breaking it up
lol
prisma crane
ha
sick sentinel
π€
prisma crane
we keep getting screwed when the 5th orb explodes n Argus
shitty sentences combined with that explosion is just trucking us
most of you have lust during then, right?
undone sun
Hmmm, maybe
signal plover
Still on P3 aggyboi :/
wide creek
I was wondering if I could get your opinion on swapping out two t21 pieces for two non-tier. The swap would give +2400-ish haste and +10 gear ilvls. but I'd lose T21 4 piece as well as some crit and vers. Do you think it is a good swap?
stark sage
is the 10 ilvls like 5 on each piece
or 10 average overall
to me it sounds like not worth
wide creek
+10 overall
wide creek
one piece is even ilvl and the other is +10
stark sage
okay
compact geyser
Anyone else have this weird interaction with other tanks or am i just wrong? They all think im crazy for not using Riftworld Codex all the time. I try and tell them that like Diimas is usually just better for me and then like Apoc Drive/Eye depending on the fight. Then they all scoff "you clearly dont understand the power of the codex" and then im all like "no, i get it, but like its not as good for prot as you think it is dawg"
stark sage
@compact geyser yeah codex isnt insane for prot but its good
bronze lance
codex is mostly to heal you back up ater you take dmg which is most of the other tanks
besides the shield proc
compact geyser
I get where they are coming from for sure, but if I saw one drop I wouldn't cream my jorts you know ?
bronze lance
lol
mellow dove
I might be switching to prot for my guild. Is it worth going back to try and pug for t20 since the item level seems so low at this point? I guess my tier is all 945+ with mythic cloak already. I'll probably get the mythic tier from eonar imonar very soon.
The guide in pins says t20 is very amazing but even 30+ ilvl under?
stark sage
30ilvl under its not so amazing
if you could pug mythic t20 it might be decent
but at this point its kinda overkill
mellow dove
Isn't mythic t20 930?
stark sage
yeah but you have mythic t21?
it was for progressing when most of your gear wasnt much above 950
mellow dove
I have 960 cloak, 945 everything else but I'd expect to get mythic t21 chest legs soon.
stark sage
it might be worth in a few niche cases
but once you get more mythic t21 it wont be worth
mellow dove
What legendaries are ideal? Seems like always that Walls Fell ring and then either mannoroths or something else?
Dunno anything about prot yet haha
stark sage
with the 6pc combo yeah twf + wrist. with 4pc you run wrist+ gloves
for dps you run gloves + belt
trinket also has some dps applications
legs are good in cases where you need the extra spell reflect
mellow dove
I see. So since i don't have t20 yet I'd prolly always want kakushans on
stark sage
probably yeah
mellow dove
Hmm what do you spell reflect in antorus?
stark sage
any magic damage
like dogs stacking debuff, coven fiery strike
a few other things
there is a list in the pins
mellow dove
Ah I missed that. I'll check it out
Aight. Kakushans and mannoroths are the only prot legendaries I have atm actually haha
On varimathras I'd swap bracers for something right? Like... ring ideally?
stark sage
which ring
mellow dove
Twf
stark sage
you can
undone sun
Twf, belt, yeah
mellow dove
I get why soul sucks haha
Hmm
Alright cool. I'll have to read up about trinkets and stuff too i guess.
stark sage
pantheon will pretty much always be equipped
mellow dove
Don't have it yet haha
mellow dove
Dps one is 990 i think.
stark sage
diimas is the 'best' legion tank trinket
mellow dove
I have a 975 aggramar trinket and 945 socketed eye
mellow dove
I'll have to pug for diimas then I guess.
stark sage
gl ive never seen it drop
if you use agg trinket effectively it can be stronger than diimas
mellow dove
Should my setup in general maybe be my aggramars trinket and Khaz pantheon for now, until I need more survivability and swap khaz to eye?
stark sage
yeah i would do that probably
mellow dove
Haha I think an alt got a 950 one last night in our heroic clear
prisma crane
@compact geyser few factors, one being that crit is largely useless for us, and two being that unless you're taking dmg from many sources, the proc rate and effect isnt great enough on the codex to justtify use over other options, for us at least
round hornet
now you just gotta swap to horde on a nice populated server π
to really see a ton of raiding guilds
sick sentinel
i prefer not having my whole factions architecture being mud huts
prisma crane
They just have op racials so the bias is insurmountable atm...
little hawk
So, a quick question. Managed to get The Walls Fell tonight. They any good? Got kakushan/thundergod to pair with em.
round hornet
more of the better guilds are already horde as well
prisma crane
that's because the racial imbalance was even larger before
so the damage was already done
a lot of the top guilds were alliance at one point
stark sage
@little hawk its good on some fights, if you run the 6pc combo its also bis
stark sage
then yeah twf + wrist/belt
little hawk
Don't have wrists soo, belt will do then
Got another question aswell, which mind sound abit dumb to ask but. For tanking, best racial on the alliance side?
stark sage
uh
dunno
doesnt matter too much probably gnome tho
cuz haste
NE gets dodge? might be solid
prisma crane
Stone form for dwarves is strong,
human racial of 2% additional secondaries is solid as well
likely Dark Iron Dwarves will be best tanks come BfA
junior ivy
wish theyd give gnomes something good
round hornet
do DID have strong racials or something?
stark sage
1% DR from physical attacks
little hawk
As a warrior it has never bothered me
but when playing my dk it does bother me
Fireblood: Removes all poison, disease, curse, magic, and bleed effects and increases your primary stat by 100 for each effect removed. Lasts 8 sec. 2 min cooldown. oh I forgot about that from DID :o
stark sage
removing bleed effects is super strong
little hawk
- getting 100 mainstat is amazing aswell
prisma crane
I'm not going to race change from human, but DID look quite strong for tanks
hard to argue
and likely best among both factions
atm
stark sage
HMT 1% verse is gucci
prisma crane
but, unless the dps/utility racials go in major alli favor the imbalance will stay the same
1% vers isnt as good as 1% DR
stark sage
isnt the DR only for autos tho
prisma crane
but anyways, back to legion, for tanks, racials arent really gamebreaking
except BE for M+, but that's gonna go away, plus you want to be a DK anyways for that shit....
astral crystal
wait how is it going to go away?
M+ is still in the game, BElf silence is on a slightly higher CD now
zealous veldt
tanking instances at low gear levels is shit
dps kinda just blow everything up
hard to get good practice
final mist
Alright boyes, we got an announcement to make
We now have working sims for DPS. Please refer to this guide, created for the Guardian community by @crystal spire https://goo.gl/U4oKzt.
crystal spire
stark sage
oooh boy
cant wait to play with prot sims for like an hour
how does it simulate RFDT
final mist
We got RFDT working, more or less, not sure how - @chilly hemlock fixed the backend systems, I created the APL.
chilly hemlock
π
undone sun
π
candid vine
So if I sim myself using raidbots right now it will have accurate DPS?
final mist
Mhmm
Some on-use trinkets will be wonky, but we got most of the big ones working.
This is only ST simming, by the way, nothing for AoE.
stark sage
is the APL designed around maximizing DPS
like using sblock and demo shout for offensive purposes
undone sun
Yup
timid jay
Simming defensively doesnt server much purpose
stark sage
ofc
proper pecan
analog swift
Just triead that sim, shit came out wonky as hell
round hornet
what does that mean?
sick sentinel
he got wonky dps? π
undone sun
π€·
sick sentinel
maybe stepped right into wonky trinkets? mine is cool so far
besides that lowdmg. haha
AHR max dmg. π
undone sun
Yeah I haven't had any problem with it in rthe past week
Also pretty vague of just "wonky as hell"
prisma crane
damn, almost 1.3m dps for me, i'll take it
though that's with TWF on atm
says simc build date of march 6th on raidbots, that accurate?
undone sun
It should be, nightly build
toxic apex
i'm new to tanking, just got an item with Avoidance stat. Haven't been able to find any theory crafting on the viability of avoidance vs the other secondary stats, anyone have any info I can read?
prisma crane
ah, ok, swapped to that, let's see how it goes now
avoidance is very strong, but not much on it as you can't rely on getting it
it's very strong in some areas though, most notably argus
went up 8k dps going to nightly lol
i wonder how well it uses my Diima's. I try to always align it with BC for example
toxic apex
ok so avoidance is good depending on the type of fight, makes sense obviously :) so people keep an avoidance set like the oldschool resistance sets? (i havent played in years)
prisma crane
somewhat, yea
the cap isnt very high, 2200 rating (20%) so it's not hard to cap it if you have a few pieces with it
undone sun
Pretty much
8/11 bosses have tank hits that are mitigated by avoidance but really only Argus is recommended to reach cap if you can
toxic apex
oh so avoidance works on cleave too?
prisma crane
all cleave, yea
toxic apex
yeah ok, that just made it much more interesting :)
prisma crane
pretty much anything that isnt a direct hit
warm plinth
Just about anything that is capable of hitting multiple targets, even if it only hits you.
prisma crane
accidentally survived a 6th damn scythe on argus last night, after doing the same on the 5th
neither time i had SB up
that 6th hit got me for 460k dmg taken
warm plinth
Quit crit blocking
timid jay
Its the strat we run on mythic now
toxic apex
noob question incoming: can non-warriors classes see the valkyrs that we use to jump to skyhold?
timid jay
My cotank just takes the first flame rend, I do the rest
prisma crane
nice
prisma crane
cant see the light beam either
toxic apex
i bet the first few times players saw that at the start of the expansion they were like WTF?!
prisma crane
compact geyser
can i post an epeen pic for fun? idk how i lived
prisma crane
gopher it
compact geyser
timid jay
Just seemed like the damage was monky
compact geyser
3x? geez
timid jay
162M iirc
timid jay
Idk what it was anymore
compact geyser
our class is great ^.^
timid jay
Aggramar Foe Breaker SkΓΆldkast 14578392 (A: 6247882) (B: 152726014)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/93Whjv8RqayPFrJH#boss=2063&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=damage-taken&source=1&start=9663331&end=9708653&view=events
There we go, found it
prisma crane
ah, kk
ez pz
we have 2 main raiders leaving after today
so im hoping we get the kill
one is a dps, so a bit easier to replace, the other is a healer though >.<
round hornet
keeping a roster is hard π
prisma crane
you know, you'd think with M Argus under 10% nearly a dozen times you wouldnt have as many issues
round hornet
idk, i've had a couple dps leave to guilds who already had 11/11M
prisma crane
well yea, but idk, i personally would rather earn the CE than just get it
way more exciting that way
though afaik the healer is moving IRL so he'd be gone for a while anyways
vague ledge
anyone have a ignore pain weakaura they can send me ?
round hornet
pinned one in #ui-addons-manager
vague ledge
thank you
quick garden
does anyone of you still run t20- 2 piece and t21 - 4 piece?
fleet galleon
That was never the right combo anyway
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone running that combo
quick garden
mine t20 was just to low. i prefer to wear 960 i-level
wide creek
Is there a bonus for all 6 T21 pieces?
fleet galleon
There is not
wide creek
or just at the 4 piece
stark sage
you either run 4pc 21 or 4pc20 + 2pc 21
fleet galleon
And it makes sense to drop T20 for higher item level. Don't hold on to the 2 set though unless it's your highest item level gear somehow
wide creek
copy thanks
undone sun
Yeah I don't anymore, stupid luck with TItanforgjng, t20 became too low of ilevel for me
junior ivy
are there any situations where i should be using stamina flasks?
round hornet
if ur gonna get oneshot without it
toxic apex
i dont assume Leech stat is any good for prot warrior?
little rain
Leech is nothing to consisder when equipping gear, just something nice to have - better than not having it
junior ivy
should i always be using potion of prolonged power
or sometimes a different one?
im stocking up on consumables since the AH on sargeras is so cheap
round hornet
You can armor pot for big physical damages
And I think old war might still be better dps ST?
But I'm not sure on that last one
junior ivy
hmm
round hornet
not really worth the extra cost tho
junior ivy
anyone here know when to use old war vs. prolonged power?
undone sun
Usually st vs aoe
undone sun
Yes for the damage reasons
brittle mirage
dumb question: is there a way to do relic compare for prot? I wanna see which traits do the most dps but it doesn't work on raidbots
junior ivy
and do i ever use stamina flask oir always strength?
round hornet
@brittle mirage sims were updated likes last night
if you have tried the nightly build
according to the pin
brittle mirage
ya but I don't know the syntax for crucible traits
and when I paste my simc it does nothing on raidbots
undone sun
Gear compare and I think relics might still be iffy because of rfdt
brittle mirage
so just wait until its fixed is my best bet?
undone sun
If you copy the SimC input afterwards and paste it into advanced with the string single_actor_batch=0 at the end
prisma crane
@junior ivy atm there are no fights where you'd need a stam flask
undone sun
Because relics uses copies it doesn't properly take the right amount of damage
junior ivy
i just logged in like 15 mins ago
trail field
Hey, is there a Mage Tower guide around here? Couldn't find one
sick sentinel
what are the things u have 100 of
quick garden
haha alright ^^
ember arrow
i dont buy drums, if a party has no bl class
then its their issue
why do you have 20 stamina flasks?
junior ivy
i used to use only stam flasks
cause i didnt know any bettrer
til krotos told me to use strength lol
round hornet
maybe get some skystep potions as well?
ember arrow
why dont u sell them then π
junior ivy
what are skystep potions?
round hornet
they make u run fast
quick garden
the only thing, i donΒ΄t like about tanking is that my healers / and the lead want me to go full defensive. I kind of hate that
junior ivy
oo i like running fast
round hornet
so you can run fast and pull a buncha stuff and come back