seems legit
#protection
proper pecan
but think hast\mastery more smooth in surv and dps terms
and u can do like 1,9kk dps on HC stacked doggos due to passive blocks 
smoky garnet
That sounds like a very specific number
timid jay
Wouldnt really say that DPS mattered much thanks to blocking
301.3k damage from scales
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
proper pecan
i mean that u can play more in deeps as u survive most of damage just by staying alive
and u will probably want more crit blocks in M
timid jay
Thats fair, mostly just how little survivability you can get away with when it comes to logging though
pulsar grove
proper pecan
Prog it in full dps set up. 2 stat sticks am/bv belt/gloves
Full bridge clean was quite harsh but still ok
timid jay
Wouldn't recommend progressing in full DPS setup
Start defensively and adjust as needed
green bison
is 2piece tier 20 stil any good i got them both at 935 ilvl
untold vigil
sure
depends on application
4p t20 / 2p t21 is still quite strong defensively. 2p/2p is also ok
green bison
2 tier 20 and 4 tier 21 is also ok?
untold vigil
again, depends on application
green bison
ok thank you:-)
untold vigil
what difficulty are you doing?
green bison
mythic
untold vigil
i would probably go either 4pT20/2pT21 or just go for ilvl keeping 2pT21 then. If your ilvl set includes T20 pieces, that's fine
4pT21 is pretty good too, better than the armor tooltip lets on
untold vigil
it does a couple of things that the armor tooltip doesn't imply: if you don't have IP up, it gives you a buff that applies to your next IP
and, while this is more relevant to M+ and trash pulls, you can stack IP with it to 10+ million, at least per the tooltip of the buff in game
the buff isn't limited by the IP cap, as far as i can tell
but if you have a 10million IP up, and then cast IP, it will reset back to the cap ๐ฆ
green bison
ah
untold vigil
but that's less relevant to boss tanking, as 1) you don't get hit by blockable attacks as often generally speaking and 2) you're not often padding insane IPs
timid jay
The buff is limited from your normal cap
untold vigil
well, at the very least I've had the IP buff icon tell me i would ignore the next 11 million damage
didn't think to screen shot it
that seems well over my normal cap, even accounting for dragon scales
calm cove
that would be way over yes
timid jay
Both me and thyme did testing on it, neither could go over the normal cap
untold vigil
i'll see if i can recreate
this was tanking many world mobs, so like i said, it's less relevant to boss tanking
and this was based on the tooltip of the buff icon of IP itself, which i have no idea if that's accurate or not in terms of what gets ignored
compact geyser
Did you have some lucky scales & concordance & aggramar procs?
untold vigil
i think the WA IP tracker takes verse and scales into account
which would update the 'cap' listed on that, which was well below the 10-11 million i observed
maybe i was hallucinating
i'll try to recreate and get a screenshot, so i'm not just blowing smoke
calm cove
the WA tracker IP doesnt have the 4pc anywhere in the code
so it cant possibly show up even if it were to work
untold vigil
yeah, i think the WA IP tracker would take into account everything but 4pc
the tooltip doesn't agree perfectly without 4pc, but it's close
calm cove
if its 10% off its perfectly right
untold vigil
yeah, it's within 10%
but not with 4pc
but anyway, i'll come with proof one way or the other next time
cocaine is a helluva drug
green bison
well this gives food for tought in how it works
untold vigil
@green bison yeah,sorry for the digression. the upshot is 4pt21 is nicer than it first appears, but not bonkers. 4pT20/2pT21 is pretty bonkers, but only for range gen and therefore more IP. Either one is probably fine at this point for mythic. There's no need to hold on for 2p T20 if you have higher ilvl pieces in those slots.
calm cove
it doesnt go over the cap
untold vigil
what is the maximum you are able to obtain, and how did you test?
calm cove
3.9mil
had a +4.2mil on the 4pc buff which is the cap for me
and 1.5mil base
totals 5.7mil
*0.9 would be ~5.2mil
was 3.9 tho
untold vigil
was 5.7m the tooltip value on the buff icon?
calm cove
no
untold vigil
or are you actually looking at damage ignored in the logs?
untold vigil
hrm. ok. i'm not entirely sure how to account for what i was seeing then, but like I said I'll give it another go and bring in some info for further discussion.
calm cove
idk what youd wanna discuss tho 4pc doesnt change anything regarding the cap and thats not really up for debate
untold vigil
not debate, assuming i'm not hallucinating, i want to know why my IP buff icon was showing values it was.
is all
timid jay
Tried it with having a IP up as well against a dummy, couldnt go over 4.9M in tooltip
gloomy light
@timid jay is highmountain tauren essentially the best tanking race now?
gloomy light
and the % hit removal?
calm cove
its 1% phys reduction right?
gloomy light
Rugged Tenacity Reduces damage taken by (character level) * 3.
calm cove
or was that dwarf
timid jay
might be dwarf
gloomy light
the dwarf wAS 1%
calm cove
whats the flat dr atm at 110?
calm cove
Nelf is still better
gloomy light
what
gloomy light
skip to 13:47
and set to 0.25
the tauren 1% hp racial saved him there
@calm cove
untold vigil
i gues saw 8.8million on the IP tooltip, but maybe that's still within range of a dragon scale proc
?
or am i misunderstanding how the tooltip works?
i think that's just verse procs + scales + max value probably
timid jay
Could definitely be conc+DS
junior ivy
omg pandaria places are so pretty i miss it
but i got a questrion., i have my view distance set to max, but i still cant see far
does anyone know why?
untold vigil
that's pretty vague?
junior ivy
untold vigil
even at max distance, there will still be a limit
untold vigil
yeah, probably because you're so high up
junior ivy
see how i dont see very far at all?
untold vigil
you're hitting the limit
timid jay
Might be some mist effect or something
junior ivy
aw ๐ฆ
untold vigil
or mist
junior ivy
i wanna see everywhere
i hate old achievements that arent solo-able
this one in mogushan valts ugh
vaults*
sick sentinel
you can see everything without mists with addons and such
junior ivy
what addons?
sick sentinel
but i wont do that because it might give crash
junior ivy
oh okay
sick sentinel
there is a reason why they put view distance to limit
but there was a youtube video about it a guy somehow managed to do that and see everything nearly
junior ivy
umm spiritbender and the 2nd one so far
havent gotten to the last one yet
but the one wehre you mimic the guys abiulities
isnt soloable
need a friendly player to cast on
placid mango
mythic nighthold anybody?
if you suck you're out
whisper dabur-themaelstrom if you want in
rain jungle
hi, ive read that the best tset combi would be 2p t21 and 4p t20, i guess it only works out if you got high ilvl out of mythic or for argunit right? or would you recommand to use 915 hc pieces instead of 930+ eq?
west kayak
I have Heroic T20 I use for the 2p4p and it works out quite well when I need it. I mainly run 2T21 and the rest is high ilvl.
rain jungle
ok, ty :o)
west kayak
Trinkets I use are the Pantheon and Diima's.
junior ivy
@placid mango alliance or horde? eu or na?
placid mango
ally eu
analog swift
hey, besides kj's felclaws what do y'all use the artifact ability for?
i've been reading it's good for aggro but that sounds a bit odd
ember arrow
aggro?
its prob one of worst for aggro
the most simple reason is to fill gaps in SB
otherwise for any hard hitting blockable abilities
except AM checks,
stark sage
think of it as an extra shield block when you need it
fallow holly
How good is the darkmoon trinket? ๐
stark sage
very strong defensively
fallow holly
is it worth getting? ๐ trying to gear up my prot warrior atm
stark sage
yeah one of the best trinkets you can hav e
analog swift
@ember arrow thanks, With T21 I have so much fuckign rage I never feel liek i need it but I suck at holding aggro (too much SS not enough TC) and a guildee recomending that
stark sage
on aoe you dont have the luxury of spending all your GCDs during BC on SS
but a BC TC and revenge should grab and hold aoe pretty well
analog swift
cool, I assume standard opener should be something like intercept BC,Tclap/SB at the same time, then SS then revenge?
calm cove
never tclap during bc on st
prolly never do it on aoe either
and during BC you only press SS
broken kite
i would only tc during BC for non aoe if i was concerned about maintaining 5 stacks of neltharion's thunder, but not sure it's worth it even then
as the rage from SS would probably translate as more valuable
calm cove
if you were worried about dropping the stacks which is pmuch irellevant youd TC right before the BC
broken kite
But for aoe I'd have nothing against throwing out a tc, especially if the positioning is awkward and your revenge may not hit everything
like the start of a pull for example
junior ivy
i just randomly joined a guldan mythic pug
gloomy light
@junior ivy I think that doesnt belong in #protection
junior ivy
i dunno where else to ask how guldan mythic fight differs from heroic from a tank perspective
๐ฆ
ember arrow
literally guides
ember arrow
stop crying and read guides first
stark sage
you should just turn to youtube or something
broken kite
๐ค "didnt even know illidan was involved"
ember arrow
its like that almost every time
junior ivy
levko knows me well
proper pecan
hey what is GCD lowest possible number 1s or 0.5?
timid jay
0.75
proper pecan
ty m8
ember arrow
2 raid tiers ago
sick sentinel
how
junior ivy
well. people were dying to felfire or whatever.
and standing in fronty of boss
so he was constantly doing his big attack thingy
stark sage
pugs are retarded
undone sun
maybe lfr
stark sage
guldan still scythes in lfr if people are in front
but it doesnt do fuckall for damage
junior ivy
yeha but it doesnt matter lol
in lfr he scythes the entire fight cause people are dumb
round hornet
GD is fun, though I didn't do it in current content ^^
proper pecan
charge shiny ball, push all da buttons
round hornet
junior ivy
im an idiot i was confusing guldans health bar with his mana bar
so i kept thinking i needed to fel scythe
cause it wa slike 90%
but it was actrually his health i was looking at
ember arrow
...seriously
junior ivy
yes ๐ฆ
stark sage
๐ well played ๐
round hornet
iirc I had a nice weakaura for guldan's energy
but I think its long deleted, can prolly find something on wago tho
sick sentinel
just watch his energy bar
and your cotank
scythe can be spell reflected
reduce dmg taken from it
ember arrow
but he knew that ofc, since he looks at abilities of a boss be4 fighting him first time
hm
junior ivy
who looks at abilities?
stark sage
yeah if people dont know the mechanics its not easy to do
junior ivy
im gonna convince my guild to go back and clear tov and nh mythic ๐
thats my new goal
round hornet
the hard part of GD is the last phase with illidan and stuff, if you guys are having a hard time with the ez stuff it might not be a pug worth sticking around in
wheat bronze
Guessing Apoc Drive doesn't work against the frontal on Argus, right?
ember arrow
no
sick sentinel
prydaz over belt for mythic +?
undone sun
no
tender phoenix
whats the best legendary for M+
undone sun
belt
tender phoenix
and?
broken kite
depends
undone sun
if you want healing, bracerrs. if you want damage, gloves
undone sun
if you're using the tier combo, yes
also useful for m+ bosses but again only really necessary if you're using the tier combo
tender phoenix
and if your 4set tier 20 but need one for tier 21?
thorny laurel
Is it possible with some kind of override in simcraft that the 2 set tier 21 works (No CD on shiel slam during BC)?
analog swift
@junior ivy i only use the bracers when 1) I don't trust the healers or 2) it's greivous week
but I have my sets macrod so I can swap easy.
stark sage
@thorny laurel im sure its possible, but there isnt really a maintained prot APL afaik
broken kite
yeah bracers are good for when you think healers may struggle
undone sun
t20 is but t21 is still missing
thorny laurel
Yeah thought so, I mean if tier 21 2 set is fixed I can just change the APL
undone sun
the RFDT issue is still going to skew the results
not having proper damage taken to generate an accurate amount of rage is going to throw off results
analog swift
But even then the healing isn't THAT good cuz you barely take damage anyway. So only when u think the healer fucking blows or is going to die, then it's necessary (like last night when I had to solo last 10% mephistroph on an 18 cath)
undone sun
and that's not somethign an apl can do
fresh ember
are the legendary bracers good for anything?
thorny laurel
okay thats rip
undone sun
bis defensively
fresh ember
cool^^
broken kite
they're fun for world pvp ๐
analog swift
yeah defensively they are the DILZ
I have them when I raid and we are low on healers and I'll be in the bottom fifth of those healed
but ideally your healers won't blow that bad, you'll keep up SB like all the time as well as your ignore pains so your damage taken should be minimal already
stark sage
im sure if some1 really wanted to, they could find a semi accurate way to implement RFDT into simc, but there also isnt much reason to
thorny laurel
Cuz if I sim it with the current APL it tells me a960 crit stat stick + 950 eye of command is better than 910 unstable and 930 cradle, which I doubt if its true
so Im not sure if I can trust any of the results at all
stark sage
nah dont trust any of the results
undone sun
it's on a todo list atm keladan
fresh ember
๐ฎ
undone sun
t21 implementation and fixing rfdt a bit
analog swift
and @fresh ember as I said above, for greivous week the bracers are amazing
cuz you have to stay above 90%
stark sage
@undone sun you expect it to be done this xpac?
undone sun
likely
stark sage
thats exciting
analog swift
Hey how many of you rock "tank" trinkets vs. dps trinkets? I love my 970 chrono (and the 960 neck pair) and 990 khaz
undone sun
depends on the situation
keystones i use dps trinkets, prog boss i used tank trinkets
broken kite
^
clear iris
damn, 2 of 12 class discords I can't change my nickname on
Tauren Prot War here, made leveling easier I think
simple mural
Does anyone happen to have a copy of a ignore pain weak aura that won't glow when capped out on it like the vengence version? I've tried fideling with making my own but I don't know the code very well.
simple mural
There's an option to stop it from glowing when ignore pain is capped?
pine ibex
pins have defensive trinkets, where can i find the offensive ones?
pine ibex
tyty
broken kite
aoe you can use stuff like glaives, codex, even diima is a strong aoe burst with defensive side
pine ibex
yeah I saw a lot of people using panth and things likeCradle or high titanforge momentos
broken kite
dont use raid dps trinkets, they're nerfed for tank specs (for the most part)
yeah just check your momento uptime, ive found the buff% pretty low
prefer a haste stat stick
personal preference though!
pine ibex
yeah I know the gig around dps trinks on tanks, war is just my alt and wanted to know
broken kite
i also use aggramar's due to a hefty amount of strength at 990 ๐
mint sigil
Would anyone happen know if relinquished trinkets can drop umbral moonglaives, and if so, as which loot spec?
broken kite
yeah, dps
broken kite
๐
long bronze
Hey guys how many ilvl would you give up for bastion? I have a 940 with Dragon skin and light speed + crap 3rd
Should I replace it with a 910 with Will to survive (crap) murdeous intent, and bastion?
broken kite
i think the general consensus here is if you're aiming for a maximum defensive build, bastion > everything
long bronze
hrm okay
brave mauve
Any boss abilities in BRH reflectable?
undone sun
nothing noteable
brave mauve
Gotcha, thank you.
simple mural
So I just got my last prot lego, bracers and battlelords? Or is something else a better def combo?
broken kite
bracers + twf with appropriate gear
is best defensive raid gearing
bracers+belt in high aoe such as m+ (outside st bosses)
assuming t21(2p)+t20(2/4p)
midnight stump
Apoc drive vs Diimas: which is better for mit?
broken kite
Sal - 01/11/2018
Important Links/FAQ
Stat Priority: (Prioritize item level) Haste > Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike
Netherlight Crucible guides and Tier 21 overview: https://bastionofdefense.com/
Defensive Trinket Guide: https://goo.gl/u7s0nm
Spell Reflection/Blockable Damage Sheet: https://goo.gl/xtfCfX
Protection Warrior Guide: https://goo.gl/ehzqE4
Antorus Tank Notes: http://www.tanknotes.tk/(edited)
IMO Diimas is better, I think it's situational though - each are better for different situations
midnight stump
So, Diimas and Apoc together unless I need the CD?
undone sun
defensive trinkets are entirely fight dependant
midnight stump
Understandable, due to them being melee hits and armor based
I'm wondering if I should use either one over my 990 aggramar's though
undone sun
unlikely, what is in the other slot
midnight stump
When i'm actually caring about survivability i've been using Aggramars and Apoc drive
but I just got Diimas
So i'm wondering on a, say.....Kingaroth, which would be better
I suppose things with enough adds to lower apoc drive's CD faster would favor it
undone sun
right, constantly getting attacked like aggramar as well
diima's is good for bursts where you'd need the armor for specific moments
midnight stump
for tank DPS, AHR or KJBW?
broken kite
ahr if you can get it to pop
midnight stump
given I have 9 mil health, I just have to take 3 mil damage
And then it'll do....2.2 mil back
so i guess that's alright
does it layer over IP?
warm plinth
I believe AHR is depleted before anything else.
vast spindle
so on mythic aggramar we have officers saying prot warriors can take 20+ stacks of the tank debuf? is there any truth to that sounds like overkill
undone sun
100% true
vast spindle
is there anything special he needs to do?
undone sun
probably to use legs for sb uptime, there's enough downtime around the 3 charges to allow for a full recharge and all you need for the combo hits is Spell reflect for Flame rend and NF for foebreaker
it's the strat my guild uses, 2 blood dks and me as prot taking 20+ stacks
vast spindle
so im assuming with that you run heavy repercussions
undone sun
no
undone sun
NP, some logs if interested https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aTG2kPJnCvQBrK6A#fight=19&type=summary&source=8
little rain
Why are you taking 24 stacks of reach
undone sun
easy to manage and less taunt swaps needed
have two blood dks managing adds
foebreaker doesn't hurt, no real threats because of high stacks
little rain
Where are you making use of the bonus reflect charge?
vast sedge
๐ฅ
little rain
During the big add phase for Unchecked Flame pulse dmg or when adds are gripped in?
undone sun
mostly during the add phase and usually for when the adds are gripped when it's off CD
undone sun
i'm using t21 4pc atm, if i had higher t20 gloves and legs i'd probably run t20 as well
stuck oxide
what do you consider higher
most of us have all 930 t20
by reading the guide i assumed it was better no matter the ilvl gain to be 4 piece t20 and 2 piece t21
i guess i read wrong
stuck oxide
it is not... otherwise people would use it on argus ๐
and im talking about progression
undone sun
i have 920 gloves
imo just short of using for Margus
compared to my off pieces though
stuck oxide
i guess argus is an exception because the hp gain from better ilvl and the little more ip value you get from 4 piece t21 is highly valuable
for scythe and soulburst,bomb soak
undone sun
https://i.imgur.com/BFpT84m.png yeh, currently running this set up
both the second trinket and the ring are for avoidance
fleet galleon
Is that T21 4pc?
stuck oxide
yup
undone sun
yes
stuck oxide
im using Archimonde trinket instead of bracers
i feel that i need that extra CD for soaking soulburst
undone sun
we put the guarenteed aggramar's on paladin and he can immune it, second we spell ward and third we sac
stuck oxide
we sacrifice every big bomb except first one but we send the 2 little bomb soulburst on melee with aggramar tank
fleet galleon
You can use spell reflect to mitigate soulbomb damage you soak right? With the Avatar of Aggramar thing
undone sun
well
fleet galleon
Couple IP's
fleet galleon
Wait what?
warm plinth
Thyme is that contract or handkerchief (the 2nd trinket)
fleet galleon
Oh... Oops
undone sun
yeah i learned that one our first p2 pull
SR did nothing
neither did Spellward on the tank with the buff
but you can spellward the person with soul bomb and the aggramar buff isn't needed
stuck oxide
but you also take spell dmg from the aoe bomb that hit you, not the one redirected
stuck oxide
so what you do to survive
fleet galleon
Oh I see. I can't imagine that redirected damage is blockable
stuck oxide
if you are the one with aggramar the second time
broken kite
Sw?
stuck oxide
i use spell reflect + demo + ip + external on first
Last stand + archimonde trinket on second
SW + SR + DS on last + ip
undone sun
tbh i'm not entirely sure, i've died with all CDs and survived with only SW
undone sun
ah right, yeah those are just a SW
stuck oxide
hmmm i die if i only do that
broken kite
Got avoidance? Is it impacted
undone sun
avoidance is invaluble for argus
Most of the damage is mitigated by avoidance
i wish i had more
WTB Master of Shadows
stuck oxide
the only 5% come from my master of shadow lol
little rain
๐ค
warm plinth
๐
undone sun
๐ญ
little rain
nice 985 blood tho gdamn thyme
undone sun
lol yeah, i'll likely never replace it
warm plinth
What ilevel is your weapon Thyme?
undone sun
lol
deft sapphire
@undone sun do you have the titanguard trinket? Or donโt wanna use that for argus
little rain
Things that trigger me
deft sapphire
Lul expecting heroic leap to work
little rain
๐
upper spoke
winged marsh
chow works
radiant osprey
Question: is there a way to tell in logs if your back was turned to the boss?
soft condor
Had to downgrade my weapon from 994 to 984ish to go from 4/7 to 7/7 bastion
final mist
That is entirely worth it
fringe marten
Got a 960 riftworld codex from my mythic cache, it's the first one I've ever gotten LOL
it's surprisingly good...but not as an actual progression raid trinket
and how lucky is that guy with relics? 994..and you had to 'downgrade' to 984? my weapon is only 985 and I"m only 6 ranks of Bastion
Urslayer not really, even the 'replays' on wow progress only show you as a little circle..you can't see your orientation.
radiant osprey
@fringe marten thatโs what I thought. I was guessing based on a one shot where it appears SB was up and nothing was blocked
fringe marten
Nice crankshaft thyme...I haven't EVER gotten one to drop.
Riftworld codex is a fun little trinket..glad I got one; too bad it's gonna' stay bagged all the time.
warm plinth
Mine is 957 but I'm only like 944 anyway (took an ilevel hit for 2pc T21, 948 normally)
soft condor
I can recommend asking your raid guys to switch to lootspecs for your relics so you get more chances on bastion crucible. At least on some bosses people don't need their own loot specs
a rogue friend of mine got me 2 of my 3
undone sun
even then, you can't get a baseline BotA fire relic
whole coral
How do you Guys deal with the pack before the first boss in HoV on fortified? 17 and higher keys. The dragon his breath is 1shotting me. And i donโt have enough cdโs to stay allive till itโs dead.
warm plinth
Do you have the legendary leggings?
whole coral
Ye was thinking bout that aswel after i got out of it
warm plinth
It won't reflect it but it'll give you 50% reduction for each one which will be a huge help
Otherwise you'd probably have to kite
fallow knot
I typically use SR for the first breath then if he still lives beyond that start the kite train. I run with a frost mage which keeps things nice and slow for everyone else. works out
undone sun
damn
warm plinth
Phew. How much did you miss by?
warm plinth
Dayum.
prisma crane
but like most prot warr groups, one shot medivh lol
undone sun
of course
warm plinth
โ
prisma crane
same with last boss, but
warm plinth
Can't prot war solo last boss with legs? :p
prisma crane
first one our lock kept dying early on Curator so we had to reset him 3 times
no, not really
cuz
the adds put the dot that reduces movement
and you eventually cant get out of the way of shit
warm plinth
Fair enough
prisma crane
plus
grievous this wk
RIP most solo dreams
need 4p2p to generate enough healing
thankfully at least IP works on grievous dmg
warm plinth
Yeah, otherwise we'd be screwed
prisma crane
mhm
working towards that 4k score
next wk isnt the wk to try too hard though lol
gonna be shitty AF
warm plinth
Yeah...
prisma crane
bolstering, explosive, tyrannical
prisma crane
let aoe hit them as long as you're actually targetting them
prisma crane
if i could tclap, revenge, trinket, anything, that would help, but only being able to SS or VR them is aids
anyways, off to bed, work is hell this wk, so ill prob be MIA for most of the day ๐ฆ
take care my dudes
warm plinth
๐ โ
prisma crane
โ
unborn island
Bolstering, explosive tyrannical, eugh
warm plinth
๐ Best week ever
unborn island
Teeming explosive was pretty bad
those rats in arcway on that week
(not to mention the invincible double inquisitor pack)
fallow knot
@unborn island Didn't blizz make it so that combo changed last time it came up ? I for some reason remember it going to teeming necrotic
little rain
Never let people kick piercing missiles lels, you as the prot war do the most dmg on that boss by a large margin.
warm plinth
It was supposed to be Teeming/Necrotic; Blizz changed it to Teeming/Volcanic
Teeming/Explosive is an entirely different week
fallow knot
ohhhhh that may have been it (almost certainly was) yeah teeming explosive is awful, that was my first experience in seat haha
unborn island
Yeah, spellreflect on that boss is ludicrous. I'm pretty sure we do like 4m DPS or something.
gilded scroll
My prot alts first three leggos are bracers belt and gloves. Did...did I win? Do I switch mains now?
gilded scroll
Thatโs okay my main is my monk and I still donโt have shoulders or ring all I have is the chest.
fallow knot
I got belt early on but the bracers and gloves were 2 of my last 3. haaaaate ๐ฆ
gilded scroll
I feel like I should switch just so I donโt waste this opportunity now lol
zealous trellis
If i'm overhealing with Riftworld Codex and Lege bracers at 70% each is it worth dropping bracers for a better utility lege such as the belt? Its hard to know where to draw the line
dusky mica
there is no opportunity
all the leggo bullshit is going away
just play what you enjoy
Overhealing in what content?
zealous trellis
dungeon
dusky mica
depends on the dungeon and if your healer is a potato
trash pulls generally dont last long enough for bracers to matter
so go bracers/gloves for bosses. Belt/gloves on trash.
Also Riftworld, despite the hype, I've found to be garbage.
The DPS it puts out is shit. The healing is sometimes significant but usually not needed.
Diima's and Glaives are better trinkets.
zealous trellis
what trink would you recommend otherwise
dusky mica
Depends what you have :D
zealous trellis
965 eye from doggos
i'm finding the codex to be quite useful but yeah i can see your point
dusky mica
The healing on codex can be a lot, sometimes.
But it's damage is bad.
If you don't have a lot to choose from the codex probably isn't too bad.
zealous trellis
got no interest in damage xD
dusky mica
All the doggo trinket has is the STR, in terms of M+.
Well tbh man, dungeons are only about damage.
zealous trellis
mmm i see your point
dusky mica
The damage intake on tanks is really low unless you start doing 20+
in which case it's all about kiting anyway
Don't you have the raid trinket?
Aggramar's whatever?
dusky mica
I've found it ok. Not amazing but usually 20-30% uptime.
And when it's 1000 ilvl, that's alot of STR.
zealous trellis
yeah i suppose so (:
dusky mica
I think Diima's is probably the best trinket right now.
Good for defense, short CD, good for offense.
The on use damage scales with vers too. Which means if you use it with concordance up you do some meaty damage.
From a total 5man trash perspective, Apocolypse drive is pretty good.
Again this is un noted in the tootlip but it also scales with vers.
So the 'prevents 1.2M damage from each hit' actually turns out to be 2M+ if you use it smartly.
The CD usually ends up being about 1m20 too.
I usually use Diima's and Umbral Moonglaives.
Switching to the raid trinket on bosses because it's 990 ilvl.
old zephyr
Any Idea of minimum Ilevel to properly tank Antorus (NM/HM)?
dusky mica
as warrior?
lfr gear + 2 legendaries
So that would be about 930 I guess.
Add 10-15 ilvls for heroic.
Only Portal Keeper does real damage to warrior because of the dot.
All the other bosses are trivial really.
If you're undergeared and want to be super safe you can use Heavy Repercussions on some bosses. Works better if you use legs.
Felhounds, Portal Keeper, Antoran Command, Argus. Those bosses are the ones that catch out my guildies when they try to tank.
And it's always because they suck at using block on time.
old zephyr
I managed to clear hound, worldbreaker and High command at 915 with only the quest leg
Was wondering if this would be enough on kin (not blockable) and vary. the point on portal keeper is valid though
i feel like anger management is better when undergeared becaus ethe most thretening thing at low gear are big previsible cleave, so having higer uptime on CDs is better where Am i wrong?
(i'm currently perforing Quite well at blocking thoses big cleaves that catch your mates off guard, and can "safely" deal with taunt mistakes on High command (getting a 3rd stack is usually not of a big deal if I have a CD up)
dusky mica
you have enough gear tbh, I was being a bit consservative with my numbers because most people should have 930 gear by default these days
You're not wrong about AM being generally better.
old zephyr
yeah I just rolled a new char with allied race last week so have only had time to clear LFR once
dusky mica
But in bad gear and no set bonuses HR is really good on hard hitters.
old zephyr
At high Ilevel Heavy reperc is better for DPS I suppose but right now I need all the CDs I can have
most of the times with a bit of haste I have more than enough uptime on my Shield block to bloc most of the cleaves
dusky mica
AM usually does more dps tbh. HR is purely to make auto attacks from bosses irrelevant.
timid jay
AM is always better for DPS
old zephyr
Oh really?
timid jay
Especially with t21 2p
Its not even a contest once you get t21 2p, the uptime on BC makes it vastly superior for dps
old zephyr
right, I did not looked into set bonus yet because I did not loot any yet
dusky mica
You want 2p from the new raid asap. It's the best 2p in the game.
old zephyr
I will, I just need to find a group that does not run away from my low Ilevel ๐
and do some mythic+ /get vendor gear in the meantime
dusky mica
from M+ you mostly want rings/neck.
old zephyr
how about the booming voice talent compared to vengence?
timid jay
Vengeance is stronger defenively untill you get t21 2p
green bison
say guys how good is riftworld codex in m+?
dusky mica
ok for some useless healing, bad for dps in my experience
timid jay
Basically lines up with my experience as well
green bison
so basicly any other trinket would be better?
timid jay
I can be good for damage if you're lucky with the fire proc
old zephyr
I feel like since I can't use devastator (I need the HPs from IFORGOTTHENAMEOFTHETHING) I don't get the most out of vengeance and could use the extra rage from shoot better (more Ignore pain, and more CD reduction thanks to AM)
dusky mica
diima's and glaives are always better for damage
green bison
i got glaives eye of f'harg arcano 910 riftworld and darkmoon deck as tank trinkets.
old zephyr
without indomitable (that is the name of the thing) I'm at about 6.5M Hps I feel it is to low for the big cleaves
timid jay
Unless you're getting oneshot with appropriate defensives indom is a massive survivability decrease
old zephyr
would that be enough?
timid jay
You have to keep in mind that the extra rage will give you a lot more IP and CDR through AM
Nothing should hit you for anything close to that with decent CD usage in normal antorus
old zephyr
Even vari?
3.5M from shadow strike plus
about 2m from the torments plus an autohit seems prety tough for me
timid jay
SR cuts shadow strike in half
old zephyr
but maybe more IP mean more HPs before ths
timid jay
and assuming you have no bastion relics SB for the autos would be 38% reduction
old zephyr
would I be able to SR every shadow strike?
dusky mica
nope
timid jay
If you have legs you can, otherwise you SR and alternate between LS/SW
Might be a bit though without t21 2p since your rage generation will be a bit lower
old zephyr
okay, would DS be enough or not?
dusky mica
as long as you have a big ignore pain up for strike you should be fine
timid jay
Oh you mean *during' the misery
old zephyr
yeah
dusky mica
varimathras is the least threatening boss in the raid for warrior
dusky mica
absorbs aren't nerfed, only heals
old zephyr
i'm pretty sure absorbs are
timber snow
bubble up after hit, save SB for taunt swap and its cake walk
dusky mica
theyre not
old zephyr
but IP is not technically an absorb
dusky mica
it is
timid jay
Absorbs work just fine during it
old zephyr
i'm prety sure Priest buble is of no help during misery
dusky mica
it is
timid jay
Gimme a few min and ill try AMS
timber snow
even dk's bloodshield works
timid jay
Pretty sure all absorbs work through misery
timber snow
ams works 100%
dusky mica
blood shield doesnt
old zephyr
yeah tooltip doesn't mention absorb mybad, Can't read
blood shield is somehow healing based though so that might explain why it doesn't works
dusky mica
no, it doesnt work because it only works on physical
sick sentinel
Hey, i just got thundergod's vigor, i got sephuz and the stormscale guantless as legendaries, should i use thundergods with demoralizing shout?
dusky mica
plus because your healing is nerfed, that translates to no blood shield
sick sentinel
i will live some haste
timid jay
TGV is generally stronger than sephuz, on AoE TGV is our strongest leggo
dusky mica
use gloves and belt, yes
timber snow
no, you can stack it..somehow....it looks like the dot just eats the healing part but you still get your bloodshield up
still, useless
timid jay
Yes
dusky mica
if you were going try hard on varimathras you would only take warrior tanks
timid jay
@old zephyr scoured through some logs for varimathras, couldnt find anything conclusive, I do know that IP works just like normal through it
dusky mica
every other tank SUCKS on that guy
timber snow
with 2t21, you can pair shout with battle cry and get nice damage boost
old zephyr
alright thanks.
will have to find a group that accept me tonight and show them how it's done then
timber snow
since you generate so much rage and through AM you lower the cd of shout, you can do this all the time
dusky mica
pugging varimathras is a special hell though, so GL with that
timid jay
Theres no real minimum, but we want as much as we can get
Without sacrificing ilvl for it
dusky mica
you want about 23 ish percent if you have 2pT21
usually a bit more due to latency and what not
sick sentinel
i havent been to antorus yet so
old zephyr
well If i don't do vary but every other's that's fine by me
timber snow
you want to learn all eventudally
biggest pain to me is argus p2 where you soak orbs
so many errors can lead to one unsoaked big orb
dusky mica
when you pug varimathras = You play perfectly, other tank doesnt taunt on time, you die, you look like the idiot because everyone else doesn't understand the fight.
old zephyr
you're so right
I've been maining heal til then so I know vey well the big orbs for Argus P2, this won't be an issue for me
sick sentinel
so when i got the belt i should switch from vengance to booming voice?
old zephyr
Like a boss
timid jay
If you have t21 2p you should be playing BV regardless
sick sentinel
@timid jay and if i dont have t21 2p?
old zephyr
and "macro" the two skills together?
dusky mica
Best way to be good is to make sure you're using addons to track stuff like Block, Remaining IP absorb, BC is active and so on.
dusky mica
90% of new warriors don't, so they suck. I have a second main, healer. See it all the time.
timid jay
Change out to BV for aoe for survivability
sick sentinel
i use WA for tanking
old zephyr
I don't have an addon to track them yet any advice?
timid jay
Get weak auras
timid jay
And you can cover whatever you want
dusky mica
If you dont, or dont want to. You can use Adibuttonauras to track some things. Nugenergy can track rage. And Shieldtracker can track your IP.
sick sentinel
i use ipses full set
dusky mica
There is an addon called Protwarbar which does it all but it's unmaintained now, which is a shame.
old zephyr
Well I've never used (needed?) such an addon so I really have none of them (heard of WeakAuras but never used, heard the config is a pain)
timid jay
Its basically a framework for sharing small addons
old zephyr
is the link to ProtWar weakaura in the FAQ the right one?
timid jay
Its really simple once you start learning it but you coudl always just get WA's from wago.io
Ill guess it is, #ui-addons-manager is updated for sure at least
old zephyr
I shall use all the things in there right?
dusky mica
I dont use WA myself. Stopped using it when it was backdoored a long time ago. I also write my own stuff so I dont need it.
timid jay
If you want all of them sure
And fwiw Kabuto, the "backdoors" are from WA's that have code that allows that to happen
You needed to accept the WA for those to work
dusky mica
yeah I know, I write addons
I just stopped using it back then, MoP wasn't it?
And learned to use other stuff and/or write my own aura stuff.
Not saying WA is bad now, it's just not the only option.
timid jay
It happend a few times during WoD as well afaik
Idk why people just accepted random WA's though
signal plover
Cuz wow is complex dontcha know
I just have a WA that has Tom Brady yell "LETS GOO" everytime I battle cry. All u need rly
dusky mica
only works for Americans
no one else knows or cares who that guy is
it's easy to make that addon btw, so get to it
timid jay
Its even easier in WA if you have no coding experience
dusky mica
you could probably find an addon that does a similar thing and just switch out the mp3 audio file
aye
timid jay
Coding your own addons might be better if you can code properly, but just the ease of sharing WA's makes it very powerful
signal plover
The "problem" is ppl blindly downloading WA suites rather than making their own
dusky mica
As long as the strings aren't malicious I don't see the problem. This is only a video game after all.
timid jay
not really a issue as long as there isnt malicious code
signal plover
Hence the ""
sweet egret
I'm having trouble tanking 22+ fortified keys because I'm getting squashed whenever shield block/nf is down (for trash)
am I doing something wrong?
dusky mica
kite more perhaps
sweet egret
I was doing mos earlier
like first few pulls on lower deck
can't really kite anywhere
and cc immune
dusky mica
MoS is pretty bad on fort tbh, yeah
it's mostly the shadow stepping guys
they have some ability called very sinister strike or something, it hurts a lot
probably skull one of them so the dps know what to kill first
sweet egret
idk I'm just looking at dk's tanking 27s without the healer having to look at them
and I'm getting meleed to death when the fight is long enough for shield block to fall off
_<
dusky mica
well on mobs that get round your mitigation DK will win yeah
DK is overtuned is all
healing is too high and VB has too short of a CD
plus the haste from boneshield gives you 10% flat + 10% of that total haste
even my shitty DK alt has almost 60% haste in combat
which means you can more or less just spam everything and it doesnt really matter
dusky mica
probably not, really
22 fortified is really high damage, I wouldn't feel too bad about dying to certain mobs abilities
the best way around it usually is for dps to do more dps
old zephyr
MM+ is all about DPSs doing their stuff really
dusky mica
taking the sinister strike guys for example
if you just leave on your legs from tanking Ymiron, you just need to keep up SR while tanking
since the strike is 100% normal damage as shadow
dusky summit
most likely you're getting hit by dodgeable mechanics
swirling muck, defiant strike
sweet egret
nah, it was the sinister strike
dusky summit
i do the "maw" pull on 23's
sweet egret
I checked skada
dusky summit
and i live fine
sweet egret
"maw" pull?
dusky summit
like everything up to boss
sweet egret
ye me too
but I got smashed to that shadow dmg
I thought it was just regular melee hits
there was no indication of an ability
but it hit me for 4-6m per hit
which killed me if 2 hit at the same time
ofc taking rolling barrels, grievous ticking etc doesn't help with living
dusky mica
one other thing to try is put yourself against the wall
dusky summit
maw of souls is one of the places you wear darkmoon deck
dusky mica
:)
dusky summit
mobs hit harder in general
dusky mica
you'll be fine now you know it's shadow damage
sweet egret
yep
but previously I thought it was just the shadowstepping guys that had it
but I see on my addon that the rolling barrel guys used it too
dusky summit
barrel guys don't sinister strike
dusky mica
yeah, one cursed, one healer one defiant striker I think
vagrant cape
So on a scale of 1 to reroll my gnome, how good are dark iron dwarves for tanking?
dusky summit
negligable
dusky mica
anything is better than gnome, is this a trick question?
dusky summit
1% physical dmg, and their main stat racial
its w.e. you play based on aesthetics
races don't mean much, except blood elf in mythic +
vagrant cape
Gnomes have haste, extra rage, arcane resistance, and they're small so they have easy hit boxes to keep out of baf
Bad*
sweet egret
but you also lose yourself under the skirts of your enemies, no?
vagrant cape
I played based on aesthetics but then reroll my Tauren into a blood elf because it gave me a 1% damage increase.
Is there an alliance race as unbalanced as blood elf for horde?
sweet egret
no
dusky mica
arcane torrent just needs removing as a spell kick
it should generate resources and do some damage instead
maybe even heal
sweet egret
I mean tauren have an aoe stun
dusky mica
yeah but cant cast while moving and range is stupidly short
sweet egret
and the biggest reason that it's not a big deal: it's on dr with every other stun
so as long as you bring a team with stuns, it's useless
but you can never have too many interrupts
:p
dusky mica
if they're serious about this mythic plus competition stuff they have to remove belf racial as it is now
sweet egret
and remove dks
dusky mica
if grip no longer interrupted spell casts it would be acceptable
At one point warrior would have been pretty good for M+
vagrant cape
wasn't the tank in the highest m+ team a vengeance DH?
dusky mica
Remember disrupting shout?
VDH is pretty good yeah
if the mobs are susceptible silence even more so
grip, double silence
sweet egret
vdh and bdk are the top m+ tanks
crystal night
Just got Mjordomo's bell 960. Anyone know where or when its best to use it?
M+ or raiding
graceful dagger
Hey guys, I'm currently running Thundergod's Vigor as my first legendary choice. For my second should I go with Soul of the Battlelord or use The Walls Fell that I just got?
dusky mica
In current content?
crystal night
yes Kabutp
dusky mica
Bell is OK on Portal Keeper.
If you eat vers food.
Works well vs the dot.
It's generally good against stuff you can't block or easily outheal with IP.
Long lasting, high damage dots essentially. Pretty niche use, but it's good vs that type of damage.
crystal night
Ok so like magic damage or like tyranical bosses?
dusky mica
Magic dots sure, dunno how useful it can be on tyrannical bosses.
You usually use that trinket if Spell Reflect doesn't cover the damage window.
Which isn't that many bosses. However, it does last for 15s with a 1.30 CD so it's useful if you need some extra shield wall type of CD.
As long as you eat vers food ofc.
The boss where I found it very useful was Krosus in Nighthold.
Not really used it much since then. I sometimes use it on Portal Keeper but not 100% convinced it's the best.
timber snow
soo. its better to switch to booming voice with 2t21 even tho i dont have single t20 piece?
with waits leggo
timid jay
Its better regardless of legendaries adn t20
Its only t21 2p that makes BV stronger really
dusky mica
well 4P T20 does too
timber snow
i know that i generate so much rage with just the 2 piece
timid jay
t20 certainly helps but even without it you dont have that much time to weave
timber snow
exactly :/
dusky mica
The weave gameplay is shit anyway.
timid jay
It makes it a lot worse
timber snow
usually when i proc battle cry, i only do shield slam and shieldblock/ignore pain to dump all the rage i just got
over 140 rage dumped during that few seconds
soft condor
well, on single target, sure - on aoe it should still be useful
old zephyr
when using Booming voice you don't usually pair DS with BC righ that would be too much rage overflow right (assuming t21 2P)?
soft condor
depends on the damage intake, you can use that rage
timid jay
I'd argue that vengeance is even worse on AoE
dusky mica
depends what you're doing
timid jay
Since belt+BV is extremely strong on aoe
dusky mica
on proper bosses, BC is a survival CD as well as dps
soft condor
just because of the damage, cosmo?
timid jay
No
dusky mica
in 5mans, who gives a shit, mongo dps
timber snow
and cd reset throuugh waist and am
so you basicly do 25% more damage, take 20% less damage and generate rage
?
soft condor
well, the dmg reduction is still there without BV
timber snow
and with the golden trait, all attack during DS are crits
timid jay
?
timber snow
soooooooo much damage
timid jay
Theres no golden trait that does that
the DS golden trait is 50% extra rage generated
The biggest difference in AoE is that the rage you save with vengeance does not feed into AM
Since its a reduction and not a rage gain
BV will give you a lot higher DS uptime and total rage generated, theres a reason why everyone goes belt+BV for aoe
timber snow
really?
junior ivy
YESS wotlk tiumewalking
soft condor
yes, free revenge for example does not reduce CDs
soft condor
That's only with Battle Cry
timber snow
makes sense since iam using them together most of the time
confusions
but, still, golden trait to increase rage generated by 50%
so you deal more damage and take less
soft condor
Yes, Demo Shout is a nice skill
graceful dagger
So is vengeance a pretty lackluster talent?
soft condor
BV is just very good
timid jay
vengeance is very lacklusteer thanks to t21 2p
vengeance was never especially good on AoE thanks to belt+bv but its outclasses on ST now with t21 2p
junior ivy
anyone get anything good in their chest?
timid jay
Prior to antorus vengeance was the best survivability talent for ST
timber snow
and, one more question...is it worth to sacrifice ilvsl to get 4t21 or just sit at 2 piece till i get atleast same ilvl of the other two pieces?
soft condor
Back in the old country we only get chests on wednesdays
timid jay
Depends on how much you sacrifice
timber snow
say, 15 ilvls per piece
timid jay
t21 4p is good for survivability and definitely worth having
I'd say thats worth it for a survivability standpoint
soft condor
especially since it works without an active ignore pain
timber snow
huh?