Nah- try it! And tell me:yum:
#protection
sick sentinel
chilly brook
I’d love to test it myself just to see but I don’t actually have the 2 set yet
@sick sentinel got any logs before and after you got your 2 set?
tidal pawn
how is the trinket Coagulated Nightwell Residue?
warm plinth
Not very good
chilly brook
I would assume a high ilvl arcano would be really nice for prot
chilly brook
I wish I had that 925 arcano on my prot and not my DK
sick sentinel
I just started that prot like 5 weeks ago and didnt log much. And i'd say that my logs atm are far away from any objective point of state....cuz of....reasons.😋
fleet ocean
So I went from like 30% haste down to over 27% but I increased my mastery by A LOT and some Versa thing its worth it?
I am using TGV and the Destiny Driver (destiny only for stats really)
sick sentinel
But i can do some sequences when i'm ba ck at home @chilly brook
warm plinth
It's a good stat but ilevel gives strength and a higher total of secondaries.
tidal pawn
So just got Kakushan leggy, but i already have the belt and bracers should i jsut continue to use belt and bracers ?
chilly brook
I like kakushan
ripe sand
The mage tower challenge is very difficult for me. Variss mind rend is doing 2.4M a hit . I cannot even spell reflect. With life debuff it gets much worst.... Appreciate any tips plz :-(
tough gull
I'm using the gloves and walls fell ring
chilly brook
@ripe sand what ilvl are you?
ripe sand
935
ripe sand
My legendaries are gloves and chest
chilly brook
Use Spellreflect basically on cd to reduce damage taken even if it doesn’t do much
Literally you’re just going to have to IP spam a lot
And kill eyes to abuse VR
warm plinth
What talent build are you using Deadlift?
sick sentinel
Get t21 - gameover Kruul
chilly brook
Basically Variss is the hard part
tough gull
How many stacks of the hp debuff do you take?
sick sentinel
Oneshotted by insane DPS
chilly brook
Kruul isn’t too bad especially when you can spell reflect Twisted Reflection
Oh also
I wouldn’t recommend taking more than 4 stacks
Get out at 3 preferably
Source darkmech’s video and my own 40 attempts of doing it at 916ilvl which was by far the hardest tank challenge I’ve done
warm plinth
Stacks of the debuff is totally up to your comfort level. Just make sure you pop Last Stand after exiting the puddle if you take a lot.
sick sentinel
I did mine yesterday I normaly stay to 6 stacks
warm plinth
It's an 8% health reduction per stack
chilly brook
I did mine at what most would have considered undergeared for the prot warrior one so /shrug
tough gull
I'm at 960 and I haven't tried it yet
tough gull
Oh good haha
chilly brook
Just simply from the damage you’d do
warm plinth
Also, interesting theory I just heard...every level 7 affix is in the rotation twice, so they might replace a future volcanic with necrotic instead...they're not going to replace it in the next one because we already have Raging/Necro in the rotation so...my new theory is that this is them trying to get rid of Sang/Volc week.
chilly brook
At 911 when I first tried I was getting Variss down to ~68% in the initial burst
Sooo can’t imagine what it’d be like at 960 with 2 set
One thing is sure though I’m proud af of beating that challenge
Especially at 916
surreal granite
just hit max level on my first toon as a prot, about to do argus and the like,
any tips on starting lfr/normals?
warm plinth
Read, study and memorize the reflectable/blockable spreadsheet in the pins.
chilly brook
^
warm plinth
Get rid of Never Surrender and Heavy Repercussions
chilly brook
I’d recommend using storm bolt
warm plinth
You're losing a ton of rage by not using devastator, using valuable GCDs spamming Devastate, and Heavy repercussions is even more unnecessary in that challenge than it is normally
chilly brook
Use Devastator
warm plinth
Block literally does nothing in the first half of the fight
ripe sand
@chilly brook thank you for the tips. That was helpful.
sick sentinel
940 + 2-set was a total ROFLSTOMP
chilly brook
Avatar as a whole is much more useful especially in 1st phase when you can’t really take advantage of RF to its best
Or at least I found it to be
warm plinth
I used Renewed Fury and Vengeance but in retrospect I would have at least used BV (that was just my current build at the time and I was too lazy to switch; used Shockwave too)
sick sentinel
But well.i knew him from my 100+ guardian attemps😱
chilly brook
Oddly enough I didn’t use Impending Victory because I didn’t feel it was really all that much better or useful than VR when it’s so easy to one shot an eye
warm plinth
Yeah I've done it 6 times on 5 different tank specs so far.
Yeah, I used IV just because the other two talents are completely useless on that challenge.
chilly brook
Completed it on my main (monk), my DK and now my Warrior
ripe sand
I did monk, bdk, druid and DH challenges today. I find warrior the toughest by far.
warm plinth
I've done it twice on BrM. Haven't done it on paladin.
ripe sand
DH was a funny tower... No challenge
warm plinth
I actually struggled with BDK the most because warrior and monk has the nether horrors coming to them automatically but BDK doesn't.
surreal granite
is warlord's challenge better than cracklign thunder?
chilly brook
Blood was a joke for me lol
ripe sand
Brm was also easy not as easy as DH.
warm plinth
Yeah VDH was actually ridiculously stupid lol.
chilly brook
I found BrM easier than vengeance tbh
But I know BrM super well not so much vengeance
warm plinth
@surreal granite Doesn't really matter. If you have any Tier 20, you use Warlord's Challenge. Otherwise, Bounding Stride is a good option. Crackling Thunder is fine but isn't really needed for anything.
chilly brook
Plus you literally get a pet that tanks and does stupid damage as a BrM for that challenge
warm plinth
Yeah BrM was actually a lot easier than I expected, but then I was like 947 when I did it. I'm sure it was much harder for those doing it at 900 when it first came out.
Think the only class that took longer to kill him than BrM was prot pally
chilly brook
I did it at I think 910 on my monk and almost one shot it the first time
Wiped on 8% or something like that
warm plinth
VDH was such a snoozefest that I wiped the first time. I got knocked off by an eye while I was watching gf's screen lol
chilly brook
Then I literally one shot it on my BDK but he was also 930 when I got around to it
@ripe sand keep us posted on how you do 👍🏻
warm plinth
Yeah my DK was like 919 and I just struggled with Velen dying for a few attempts because I had to actually care about the Nether Horror cast and positioning
chilly brook
Yea but they don’t storm on the BDK one iirc
warm plinth
Or maybe they do on druid but they just never lived long enough 😂
Yeah they definitely don't storm on warrior
chilly brook
Either way just stay kinda near velen and BB and ezpz
ripe sand
@chilly brook alright, will do. the tower will be destroyed soon. I will have to wait till it gets built again...
chilly brook
If you haven’t done so I’d recommend searching up DmarkmechTV on YouTube and watching his prot warrior guide for it. He does a pretty good job with explaining and giving tips
warm plinth
Yeah I watched his video for both BrM and VDH; he does a good job explaining things
chilly brook
It’s not even fluff either
Plus he always has the video of his clear and breaks everything down
warm plinth
I'll have to get my prot weapon on the pally just to say I did it on all of the tanks
chilly brook
That’s the goal for me
warm plinth
But he's only like 891 atm and I don't feel like working that hard on it 😂
Since it's not a spec I'm gonna play
warm plinth
Druid is a snoozefest. I retired mine
chilly brook
It’s so boring
warm plinth
So boring to play and they're super squishy in M+
Feels that way these days anyway. I miss Mark of Ursol 😦
chilly brook
Plus I feel like I do no damage on my Druid
warm plinth
Yeah I do like 1.1 mil when glaives are off CD, whereas on my warrior I can pull 1.5+ every pack just about
chilly brook
Sitting here pulling 900k ST as a BrM and only doing like 300k on a Druid
warm plinth
Guessing you have 3x FP relics huh :p
warm plinth
🤔 Why not? You can get them from Argus WQs like all the time
chilly brook
Don’t even have my leggo shoulders yet
warm plinth
Easily worth dropping ilevel for
warm plinth
I actually have 1 FP and 2 Hot Blooded on mine
warm plinth
Yeah I don't let ilevel concern me on that toon. Only BoS cares about weapon damage anyway.
chilly brook
If I got like a good titanforge off Argus WQ I’d do it to at least one or two of em
warm plinth
Not for the weapon anyway
sick sentinel
All u sayin @Worldcrusher#3675 ... my guardian is on bench now, and im a Happy prot :ok_hand:
chilly brook
I’d honestly rather farm +15s for the FP relics than sit there and hope for a titanforge though
It’s a shame t21 for BrM is so bad
Especially since the game seems to think it’s funny to flood me with t21 pieces that I’ll never equip
Or 970 titanforges of t21
And then never drops any t21 for my prot warrior
Or my DK
sick sentinel
My m+ "testing" brought me on rank 9 realm prot 🤔 Time for third ID ^^
ember arrow
there arent many prot warriros doing much m+
not undermining ur poin t, but just sayin
cinder pasture
And I'm top prot, second warrior on mine, gotta love low pop realms 😄
sick sentinel
@Levko (Memes/Tanking)#1865 haha...ye ofc its an issue of my realm / prots in general
I did...like...nothin?!
ember arrow
ye exactly
turbid horizon
west kayak
Where do you go to see that ranking?
sick sentinel
im 250 on my realm and I havent even done hc yet lol
m+ score/ranking has nothing to do with raiding
fringe marten
Kaleg, guardians do more AoE dps than we do (they can, if geared toward it) but not single target. If you are doing less dps than your warrior it's either a 1 target situation or you simply haven't tilted your guardians gear over to AoE properly.
warm plinth
it's legendary dependent though. I'm sure my druid would be pumping out a lot more if I had luffa. I already have 3x thrash relics
fringe marten
Hence why I said; 'they can, if geared toward it"
rotund gyro
anyone on here push keys on prot warrior?
ember arrow
o/
kinda got sick of wow
playing skyrim atm 😄
can still gives tips if needed, jsut tag me
fringe marten
It's not like warriors are any different, for us to maximize damage we need to change off of standard 'defense' legendaries..and if we REALLY wanted to push damage we'd have to go for revenge legendaries, or Tclaps. But we don't have to...all we have to do is swap Leggo's and trinkets and our AoE goes up like half a mil.
I'm playing monster hunter world atm before raids tonight.
rotund gyro
@ember arrow how do they fare and are there any resources i can follow specific to tanking m+ on a prot warr?
fringe marten
I don't think any tank could beat us in damage if we went for only damage relics and gear; guardians could likely still out dps us..maybe.
weary prairie
Heya! it is worth still use 2 tier item of 20 and tier 4 piece of 21?
ember arrow
@rotund gyro they farfe well, i need specific questions, if u need extra info. extra info si found on m+ friends discord
fringe marten
Guardian druids do excellent damage AoE, and decent on single target.
ember arrow
yea its pretty good
warm plinth
You should be a helper on there Lev :p
rotund gyro
@ember arrow as an example, how do you deal with say necrotic on a warrior? i know they have IP but is there more of a requirement for specific leggos or?
fringe marten
I joined M+ friends but it's ? I feel it's over complicated and spreads the community thin with the way the channels are set up...honestly the biggest thing M+ ever got was the raider.io addon.
ember arrow
@rotund gyro i usually jsut kite trash, not much to it, some bosses are hard or nigh impossible to reset, certain opera event, second boss seat, but i avoid necrotic weeks tbh
do at most +18 ish keys
use diimas to slow trash, TC, and leap away or intercept ranged
steel mauve
Typically @weary prairie you really only go 4p t20 and 2p t21 or t21 4p and just go higher ilvl than your t20 pieces, or dps just 2p t21 and highest ilvl you can
ember arrow
thers not really a leggo that helps on necrotic specifically, although i recommend not using wrsits since their healing gets gutted by it
fringe marten
Derra..I made a WA for a sound effect when I hit a certain stack limit, then you either Tclap, or use Diima's glacial aegis and leap away...let stacks drop. On some bosses (let's say General xakal in arcway) you pull him to one side of the room..and as he goes to charge up his big aoe slam you leap to other side of the room; MOST of the time you can get stacks to drop without a tauntoff. On Hymdal you almost assuredly neet someone to taunt off you (again..run to end of his hall..after a fresh stack wait 2 sec..have someone taunt/defensive/run to other end..you wait a couple sec..taunt back..his travel time will be enough that stacks will drop)
Healers knowing how to deal with necrotic helps a lot too, the amanthuls..thingie? legendary healer trinket..heals through even 100% necrotic.
Your best defense against necrotic...tons of dps, just smash trash packs before you're overstacked; and MOST bosses mechanics work out so that you auto drop stacks during fight. only a few don't (hymdal, and I think...? wurm? in upper kara?...you only get 1 reset during half way point of shade of xavius in DHT..etc)
With warrior leaping you can pull a lot of bosses to the sides of their arenas..wait until they channel an ability...leap away/run....you can reset stacks on tons of bosses that way.
rotund gyro
awesome, as long as i know theres way and means, ive always been told that prot warrior is next to completely unviable, and im coming from healing on a hpala myself (was a prot before then but not since cata) but its good to know that prot warriors are still a nice option
ember arrow
people watching that SCO
timid jay
We're not the best for pushing m+ by far
warm plinth
Wait what? Velen's healing heals through Necro?
timid jay
But we can hold our own
fringe marten
The only tank that deals with necrotic better is paladins and only because they can literally erase necrotic using self bubble crap. Warriors are second best.
ember arrow
AMS
warm plinth
DKs with cape can drop stacks pretty easily
rotund gyro
are there any affixes where warriors really suffer badly?
fringe marten
(for necrotic...we are overall worst tank for M+..that does not mean unviable..it means other tanks bring more to the table for pushing tough keys)
ember arrow
@rotund gyro necrotic, thats about it
fringe marten
Derra nope...again..we're solid for anything, anywhere...just not the best for pushing timers on 20's and above depending on affixes.
ember arrow
what?
warm plinth
I'd rather play warrior than druid on necro
rotund gyro
i sense a disagreement XD
flat kelp
+1 Worldcrusher, i feel safer with war than drood
ember arrow
yes
fringe marten
The tricks other tanks have allow them to pull things differently than we do..and ultimately is more beneficial for group, or have other group buffs to use.
ember arrow
arcway trash+more arcway trash
rotund gyro
oh yea, another one, magic damage? is SR our only mitigation from that besides IP?
timid jay
We still have LS/SW/DS for magic
And with AM those have really short CD's, can just throw them around without much thought
warm plinth
Yeah SR and legendary pants are so awesome on some bosses
rotund gyro
@timid jay what were the things you listed sorry?
fringe marten
Chains, Death Grip, damage mitigation that isn't solely reliant on mobs being clustered in front of you, healing provided via DK abilities...all kinds of little tricks like that are why other tanks are better. Spell reflect does make a few bosses trivially easy for us, or allows us to do a little extra damage that others can't.
timid jay
Last stand, shield wall and demo shout
rotund gyro
got you
fringe marten
Levko, last night on lower 20, on bolster...I pulled the entire banquet room before morose (after we jumped into corner, killed 1 pack and 1 elemental)
it was like ? 25 or 30 little non elite mobs
TWO of those mobs were casters and stood outside of range of the melee pack
warm plinth
I bet that was fun for your group.
fringe marten
before they could get killed...they got super bolstered and ruined us. (no..not shadow bolt volley)
just 2 random non elite crap casters
if I were a DK..I could have gripped them in
and that pull would have gone flawlessly
warm plinth
I mean...that sounds like improper play, not a failure of warrior mechanics
warm plinth
Or your ranged DPS could interrupt them
fringe marten
It wasn't improper it was "I think we can pull this off just fine.." then realized those guys were on the edge casting..and the main pack was largely bursted down before they could be interrupted/pulled in.
you can..if you're a DK
is my point levko
ember arrow
dps will die
not a tank
thats why m+ is annoying
not for tanks
dps dying is 99% of deaths
fringe marten
no they won't; a huge pack of non elite trash..if it's clustered..will simply all die to being stunned the entire time (warbringer plus other group stuns)
ember arrow
i mean whats ur point, if u charge range adds or leap in then stun em
all are clustered
fringe marten
my point is...yes; I shouldn't have pulled it like that seeing what happened...but if I were another class it wouldn't even have been an issue.
ember arrow
then np
fringe marten
on sanguine; you have to interrupt or Line of sight casters in the hopes they'll move off of sanguine..not a DK..he just pulls them off.
primal crypt
25 mobs on bolster 🤔
warm plinth
I see your point Dadugan, but it's not the class's fault.
fringe marten
(yam..it worked perfectly fine of not for the 2 casters)
dusky summit
anyone race changing with the preorder out
rotund gyro
@fringe marten wouldnt guardian druid have the same issue?
primal crypt
Or monk
fringe marten
100% I'm not saying I pulled it right....I realized the mistake after realizing 2 casters were on the fringe of the pack getting super buffed...my point is; another class has a ONE button fix for that.
warm plinth
Think he was referring to gorefiend, not regular grip
primal crypt
The dps need to let you position regardless
fringe marten
you really aren't seeing the point are you?
fringe marten
Other tanks have abilities we do not to cover situations we have to work much harder, OR differently for.
ember arrow
other tanks fix problem that u shudn ot create in the first palce
rotund gyro
or couldnt you potentially charge to interrupt and leap back?
warm plinth
But every tank class has that problem Dadugan. Every tank has pitfalls.
ember arrow
thats why we are more punishing
steel mauve
I dont feel like there should be a tank that can do everything... a dks big thing is his grip not a warriors, so we learn to do things our way, jist like wars have stuff they are good at
fringe marten
Correct levko; I pulled it wrong...and had I taken the time to filter through to find the 1 caster..charge him....pummel him on his second cast..then charge the other caster...it would have gone fine; HOWEVER...like we all do in M+ on the fly I went "we have strong aoe and good stuns..lemme pull this whole room.."
5 seconds later "wait those 2 cast...aww shit.."
timid jay
Saying that massgrip is only there for when you fuck up is understating mass grip a lot
Mass grip is insanely powerfull
fringe marten
Cosmo exactly..that's just 1 instance...grip is amazing in many places for many reasons.
Darkness is amazing for many reasons
timid jay
Oh fair enough, only skimmed through the conversation
timid jay
Grip is really handy in general, just makes things easier and some pulls a lot faster
warm plinth
Mass grip is very powerful, but DKs having mass grip is not a negative for warriors
fringe marten
My ultimate point at the start was "this is why warriors aren't the best tanks for M+..other tanks have tricks that allow alternate pulls and tricks we can't cover"
timid jay
The problem is that we dont bring that much usefull utility in m+
fringe marten
The raider io boards will confirm this..look how many pages of groups you have to get through before you see the top warrior..who is an oceanic prot warrior with a name in chinese characters I can't read.
I love prot warrior...they are outshined by other tanks in M+ simple fact.
prisma crane
well, Mighty isnt far behind
plus, he's trying out the new ravager build with the arms helm, i know he's gonna climb with that strat
ember arrow
it doenst help others simply decline us be4 even starting, also not many ppl play it in first palce
comparatively
warm plinth
No one is arguing that other tanks aren't better for high level mythic+. We were arguing that the situation you described was not a warrior problem.
prisma crane
it is a warr problem though
ember arrow
i link m achievs nope
prisma crane
in that
warm plinth
That was improper play on his part, not a negative effect of the class he was playing.
prisma crane
we can't make up for the other strengths in other meaningful ways
fringe marten
I don't pug a lot..but when I do..I often get "wow...I don't think I've seen a prot warrior with a good rating before" often.
prisma crane
more or less
fringe marten
We have to work harder and understand zones a lot better than other tanks in order to make up for class differences. (my point with my lower kara pull..I needed to understand how that pull exactly was going to play out before I did it..now I do; but if I were a DK I could have fixed the pull with 1 button WITH making the mistake)
ember arrow
so dont make a mistake
rotund gyro
so with all this in mind, how do you guys feel about the mitigation changes for BFA?
ember arrow
thats only way to do high keys
as warr
my hp bar disappears when i miusplay
@rotund gyro not sure yet, still early, but as it is now not that good
fringe marten
That's just not how M+ works in the real world; odd janky crap happens on zones you 'should' be able to do perfectly....again..there's a reason the first ? 4? 5? pages of raiderio...see no prot warriors.
rotund gyro
@fringe marten could be due to stigma so not a lot of people play it because fo how its seen?
ember arrow
ofc it is, after thousands of runs, even hundreds or so u shud know all adds exactly
esp if ur serious about it
fringe marten
Derra..no; other tanks simply bring more useful abilities to the table. One of the big ones is self maintenance.
The self healing of DH and DK are a big big issue too.
warm plinth
I don't think self healing is something that makes others stand apart, especially if you're using bracers
fringe marten
It's not because they are 'tougher' it allows the healer to free their focus for other things.
warm plinth
We spend a lot of time at high health
ember arrow
utility i agree
but heeel naw
on healing
esp on bossfights
1 boss thats dangerouns: agronox
and uhhh
ye thats bout it
timid jay
Q&A is live now fyi
steel mauve
Thags what i like about a warrior, we dont have it as easy as some classes, makes it more entertaining for me, and i dont bitch about shortcomings i just play better and learn to figure out what works
fringe marten
Levko you either don't know how it works or you simply want to argue to argue. Again..it's a fact..ask any healer. It's not about we 'can't' maintain..we can just fine in an extended sense...it's about the burst during trash packs and other situations where other tanks sit at capped HP and instantly fill their HP bars back up; so the stupid rogue who's going ADHD in front of trash can get healed...and healer doesn't even have to look at our HP bar.
ember arrow
@fringe marten dont mistake me, i agree other tansk have better utility, but ur whole statement was that u fucked up a pull thne blame class
there is no burst on trash pull
u can charge them anbd DS
or leap in with LS or SW
LS on 1 min cd
i can ask any healer
as any in my bnet list
fringe marten
Again; you honestly aren't following what's going on here. I even said "I pulled this bad" that WAS the point of the statement.
Last stand gives you more hp and only has 1 initial 'jump' on your HP bar..it doesn't maintain your health bar so a healer can ignore you and heal someone else. if your bar drops they still heal you.
ember arrow
only trash where i get healed is seat and some arcway
like be4 corstillax
otherwise 4 mil IP tank and spank
LS increases bracers effect too, so u jheal urself in no time
fringe marten
Yeah you mean the places where we take damage..might die..and might slow a key down? like EVERY OTHER TANK IN THE WORLD? ..this guy..
ember arrow
use SR at right time
fringe marten
Those handful of spots in various zones are exactly what I'm talking about.
fringe marten
You're just moving the goal post at this point and trying to throw solutions at the wall; did you forget the entire point of this:
tidal sparrow
Double warrior tank for casual mythic raiding?
fringe marten
We work harder to attempt to get the same result other classes achieve with their BUILT IN toolkit. and at the end of the day..they STILL do it better and bring more to the table.
fresh dragon
LS does NOT increase bracers healing
fringe marten
Takkero it..sort of does; you're healing more only because your HP pool is larger...respectively it's still identical.
fringe marten
you think I'm not already doing that? and don't have half a dozen gear macros to change between between trash/bosses and different affixes? of course I do
I HAVE to..you can't do it without it.
ember arrow
exactly
fringe marten
Yet again; working harder where other classes tookits just cover those gaps for free and better.
honestly he's arguing to argue at this point; I don't know why I keep typing...you can have the last word you win buddy..whatever your goal is.
steel mauve
To be honest so are you
ember arrow
i know it from experience, i find swapping sets for different situations self explanatory and completely standard, if that is "working way harder" then i cant really argue
against that
steel mauve
Literally every class some where has a tough time with some thing that another class can pull off easier
fringe marten
No he's literally agreeing with me, but arguing the point "push SR, equip a legendary trinket..woa such effort" That's the point..knowing exactly when to hit spell reflect, or utilize a trinket instead of belt or glove/etc.
ember arrow
"playing class wel"
^
its true if u fuck up u die thats nature of warrior
if u dont ur 100%
fringe marten
This is what I said like 15 minutes ago? (i don't understand what he's doing?)
ember arrow
i find it weird that ur definition of working much harder is pressing 2 buttosn and having different gearsets
if thats ur opinion then good on you
fringe marten
Warrior requires a lot more proactivity than other tanks, and due to the way our mitigation and HP pool works we have a much smaller window for error.
ember arrow
correct
- dpnt make mistake then 2)??? 3) profit
I agree about that part, i disagree on the "working harder part" is that clear?
fringe marten
...you think having to know the zone and mechanics better, being more prepared..be more active with gear swaps, and have a lower margin for error...is NOT working harder?
are you..? nevermind..this discussion is over.
ember arrow
i think that knowledge just is there after a while
i didnt tank high keys onj any other tank, so i guess its not for me
after 50 runs i assume u know that that pack has 2 casters in it and pull accordingly, but i guess wow community finds that too difficult
cya
steel mauve
How boring would wow be if all classes did the same thing and had easier times at literally the same every where
ember arrow
i agree wit him warr is harder to paly, etc etc, just not on that its "working hard"
thats it
literally it
getting the right tool for the job was self explanatory i assumed
warm plinth
I read an article saying they're trying to differentiate classes more in BfA
fringe marten
Iron; yes..the wow devs have said many times "there's always going to be a best, always will be a worst.." the best they can do is try and get classes performance to be 'close' and to their credit; in raid situations I think the tanks are pretty solid.
M+ is a brand new addition to WoW after over a decade...and they try an balance for it but it'd throw off the other 2 big chunks of the game, raiding, pvp...so they're less inclined to do that.
warm plinth
The problem with doing that in M+ is that utility matters so much that certain tanks just outshine others. It's the nature of it if you're going to have differences between specs.
fringe marten
Right...'little' tricks become a BIG issue in M+. the DK grip, as an example again...in MOST raid situations is..? nothing? who cares...every now and then they can do something cool...in M+ it's an INSANELY powerful tool.
warm plinth
That being said, I think they've done a decent job of making tanks viable at the very least for it. Even if people take certain ones over others.
fringe marten
A long time ago during his little 'tank balance' video Sco made the statement he fealt warriors were like a 'glass cannon' and everyone bemoaned it and said stupid shit; but ultimately that's what he meant...warriors have a higher play skillcap and have a tighter margin for error in a lot of situations.
The sad thing is, by simple nature of the way the game works...we aren't really heavily rewarded for it. It's not like we become a 'better' tank than other tanks...we tank just the same...we just do more crap to make it happen.
The reward for playing 'harder' dps classes with tough rotations is..sometimes...you get to do great dps and make your class shine.
warm plinth
I think we become a better player than some tanks, because we have to pay more attention and actually play correctly, whereas other tanks are not as punished for their mistakes.
fringe marten
With the 'perception' of tanking being a lightswitch....you're on...or you're off...that's all anyone cares about. There's no payoff for being a good prot warrior...vs anything else...that's the only sad part. Maybe we get to do some more single target dps? that's about it.
ember arrow
which is a problem in and of itself
as dadugan mentioned, he cud just pull the add he mispulled in, basically correcting a big mistake
where as other tanks cudnt have don that
dh
but yea
fringe marten
and..even in a raid situation; some classes just have it better for some situations. IE paladins..the way they work; they have so many tricks for cheesing 'tank buster' mechanics and stuff...straight up immunities/etc...the way their standard rotation debuffs the mobs FULL damage output..not just blocking melee hits..etc.
ember arrow
haste vers
fringe marten
You do what every single person here would do...put on the haste boots, bank the other boots..and if your gear gets to a point where you wish you had more mastery and you have tons of haste...you have the luxury of swapping out.
I wish I had more mastery now
ember arrow
117%
hazy path
and whats too littile mastery
ember arrow
then u got 100% SB uptime on AM
hazy path
xD
ember arrow
so then it becomes a waste
fringe marten
I'm 32 to 36% haste in standard progression gear..and only 42% mastery...my 'goal' is always to have 50% master or better...I want my crit blocks to be 1 in 2 at least. and having fractional tenths of a second off of various skill cooldowns at THIS point won't make up for that.
hazy path
Yea
ember arrow
biggest prob for warriors arent melee hits
thats why heaste is so good
its bleeds
looooong bleeeeds to be specific
hazy path
inc 24 lower kara moroes
hazy path
nvm nvm
warm plinth
Nope
hazy path
volcanic*
warm plinth
they changed them
ember arrow
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH
warm plinth
It's Teeming/Volcanic/Tyrannical
hazy path
yeah i thought it was supposed ot be necrotic
ember arrow
time to push
warm plinth
It was
ember arrow
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
warm plinth
No explanation on why they changed it yet
ember arrow
well my sacrifices werent in vain
warm plinth
But honestly I think they're getting rid of sang/volc
I think we're gonna see Sang/Necrotic
fringe marten
Yeah, IP in theory helps with that but sadly you aren't tanking..your rage gain is slowed down enough that IP won't cover all the bleed ticks any more.
fringe marten
But ultimately if you look at our damage intake profile vs other tanks we generally poop all over every other tank....that's why our hp pool looks aneimic.
ember arrow
do imonar mythic and literally use all cds on cd, but odnt stackj
u will see u take little dmg
DS is up by the time LS wears off
fringe marten
Levko I understand that...we all do that.
well...any of us with 4pc/2pc..are doing that
ember arrow
well yes
thats why haste>mastery
i dont see a point in having a goal of 50% mastery in mind
in dungeons u get meleed muych more
hazy path
Yeah ill use the haste onee
ember arrow
in raids meh
fringe marten
I was generally...unless the boss was serious progression..using DS on cooldown for dps.
the new 4pc/2pc thing didn't change anything about the way I play other than now I just pop last stand and shield wall...whenever I feel like it for any reasons
ember arrow
DS is used on cd at all times
fringe marten
basically "did my HP go down at all? nope..Last stand.."
fringe marten
'new' as in...since antorus came out
fringe marten
and our 'optimal' setup is 4pc t20, 2 pc t21
ember arrow
defensively
hazy path
tis been 2 months
fringe marten
sadly my shoulders T20 are only 920
but the rest were all mythic pieces so ..not too bad
hazy path
to be honest i have 960s-980s so i cnat use the trashy t20 anymore
hazy path
No i cant i tested and its trash
fringe marten
look how LITTLE your armor actually goes up
ember arrow
its realllly good
fringe marten
and your haste/mastery will be the same regardless..depending on the secondary stat shifts.
ember arrow
extremey good if u need cds
fringe marten
2m hp is quite a lot
hazy path
dude i plaeyd it for the first 5 mytthic bosses progression
fringe marten
I only gain like..? 300k, or a half mil? when I change from my progression set to full ilevel gear.
ember arrow
it feels liek shit because its nor progress anymore
that combo is DEFENSVILY best not in general
hazy path
dotn forget im goign from 915s to 960s +
ember arrow
doenst matter
ember arrow
for progress it doesnt
hazy path
i guess your right
hazy path
yup
ember arrow
t20>> more cds
prisma crane
zero chance that swapping 4 pieces of gear nets you 2m HP
hazy path
im gonan log and check right now 😄
hazy path
dude i had 915s
fringe marten
and those are 920 to 945..and like 930 to 960'ish
hazy path
to 960s and 980s
prisma crane
aka, 1/12th your change
fringe marten
yeah I think you're really over exaggerating the HP change
prisma crane
60 ilvl across 4 main gear slots
fringe marten
Check more than that.
prisma crane
would be close to 2m
fringe marten
Look at the armor change..look at HP..look at secondary stats.
hazy path
^^
fringe marten
and you'll realize changing to lower ilevel gear really doesn't hurt that much
and the net gain is that you're spending way more rage and getting more Demo shouts /etc.
prisma crane
btw there isnt 4 main item slots, only 3
and you shouldnt use T20 chest anyways
or helm
it should be biased to the smaller budget slots
fringe marten
Helm and leg have identical stats right? (main stat/stam)
and shoulder is slightly less
fringe marten
chest has more than anything else doesn't it?
prisma crane
shoulders/gloves/boots
fringe marten
or is it same as helm/leg?
prisma crane
same
hazy path
915 head hand legs and back
prisma crane
i forget if belt is same as bracers, but i think they are close, cant remember
fringe marten
belt is more..bracer has lower stats than anything
prisma crane
you could get T20 mythic helm/gloves/back pretty easily
i dont think it's necessary
but yea
also, 1.4 makes more sense
hazy path
yeah i guess it's not 2 mil
prisma crane
you won't go way wrong going for ilvl
fringe marten
That's honestly still a lot of HP; ...but I'd just try and get mythic T20 gear. I'm just so glad I do because I probably wouldn't use 4pc/2pc if I didn't....I'd be in the same boat as you with 905's and 915's
prisma crane
and 4p T21 is solid too
prisma crane
esp since it'll free up kaku
fringe marten
IE if it were a nearly 1.5m hp change for me...I wouldn't use it either. with our HP pool the way it is 1.4m is a TON.
dude...pugs do mythic ToS a lot
and trust me when I tell you the amount of scrubs who have no idea of the mechanics that join those...and we STILL win.
I've joined a few of those pugs...70% of the people there are DPS trying to get old tier bonuses that have NO idea of the mechanics.
and you can still smash it.
fringe marten
I remember doing progression on Host..and how scary it was when the host came out of the engine..and I had both before the tank swap..
you took SO much damage
prisma crane
dont waste your time unless you know the group is good to go for more than 5/9 in ToS
fringe marten
now it's laughable
prisma crane
mistress and maiden will waste a shitload of your time
fringe marten
Pro Tip...do not touch the fish on mistress.
fringe marten
Don't need to do fish any more on mistress...and it'll just get a TON of people killed.
prisma crane
tmog
hazy path
..................955 t20 lol
prisma crane
mount from hounds
junior ivy
but its so painfully boringgg. i guess the moutn cchance is worth it though
prisma crane
and i have 940 shoulders, and then 935 helm/gloves/cloak/chest
fringe marten
Catfriend; if you're really dedicated to trying to progress your character, yes. I won't do it because I'm lazy...however; due to the 'titanforging' climate in the gear right now....RF has a chance at spitting you out amazing gear, just like M+ does.
fringe marten
Also if you need legendaries. although any full time tank I'd assume has all legendaries now.
fringe marten
I have every legendary for every role at 1000 ilevel and I've never played either DPS role.
junior ivy
and i dont even play alts lol
fringe marten
yeah and I have 2 new leggo's waiting...1 paladin 1 monk...neither will ever be used.
hazy path
i have all priest all druid and 90 % of warrior
junior ivy
guess ill do some raid finder im just bored
fringe marten
you play a lot still
I do like 1 daily quest a week...a handful of M+ and that's basically it.
prisma crane
i stopped caring about that stuff once i hit 75 traits
junior ivy
i do stupid emissary eveyr single day
prisma crane
back in first wk of november
fringe marten
in fact...I'm going back to monster hunter now.
yeah I'm 80 traits atm and have zero incentive to 'try' and push AP...I haven't tried in a long time....just kinda' lazied my way up to 80
junior ivy
im 78, workin on fury weapon now
1 more trait a d i can do all NLC stuff
then back to prot
prisma crane
yea i just hit 81 last night actually
have 75 in arms
and like 56 in fury, rofl
idgaf about fury though
junior ivy
im bout to do normal DHT
magic rain
is it worth using the legendary pants for mythic felhounds to reduce magic damage taken? or do you guys find that its not needed?
rotund gyro
guys, bit of a nooby question, but how do you decide if an item is an upgrade as a tank, like dps can sim items to see if it gains, how would i be able to tell if say, my new ring gives me a survivability upgrade or dps upgrade or both?
steel mauve
Intuition, we have a bis stat order just no weights
rotund gyro
so mostly just estimation/feelycraft?
steel mauve
And i dont feel like pants are needed on hounds
Pretty much
Ilvl is really really strong for us, after that its just haste > versa/mastery >>> crit pretty much
rotund gyro
am i right in thinking crit is higher for dps focused builds?
steel mauve
Obviously different circumstances like tier, relic trait, and non armor like rings and necks
warm plinth
Not really, BC with AM devalues crit a lot. T21 2pc even further
steel mauve
Nah crit is our worst dps wise too
rotund gyro
ah okay
steel mauve
Haste is still best dps and survival stat
warm plinth
Avoidance is very strong for Antorus, but hard to put a number on it
Yeah, I'd say so
sick sentinel
Crit isnt my worst dps stat tbh. But keep on telling yourself it is 😉
sick sentinel
Especially Fel Hounds/AHC/Portal Keeper you dont use many SS anyways during BC
prisma crane
um
warm plinth
What? What do you use?
prisma crane
hounds?
warm plinth
o_O
prisma crane
hounds may as well be ST
warm plinth
Hounds is a ST fight effectively
steel mauve
Be dumb not to use SS during bc...
steel mauve
Its still your biggest rage gain, and especially during bc, which means its your biggest survival rotation to ss during bc....
prisma crane
and PK isn't enough aoe to be good cleave, esp if you play where you move her away from the portals when the void thing is about to spawn
sick sentinel
nvmd me. I'm an awful tank, but know how to dps. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/22978406/17#difficulty=3&class=Warrior&spec=Protection&metric=dps
sick sentinel
Krotos is far superior to me. I'm well aware of that. But leave me my spot of happiness
prisma crane
again though, to be fair, if we're talking "far superior" we can mention Cozen/Sense and you Mighty
since you pretty much own the M+ warr dept
kind prairie
I still don't get why you wouldn't SS burcing bc
sick sentinel
It is pretty much a game where experience counts much.
sharp dew
You like those logs
kind prairie
But ss hits harder.
prisma crane
sure
but tclap and revenge hit more than one target
i can hit for 2.6 on one target
kind prairie
No no I mean for ST
prisma crane
well yea, for ST you'd always SS
kind prairie
Or did I read the previous convo wrong.
prisma crane
well, the confusion was only w/ hounds really
sick sentinel
Mighty and Sense are pretty much the only ones I can learn from. Visual learning type. kms
kind prairie
Yeah that's where I am confused.
sick sentinel
So thx for sharing your m+ runs/myth kills @ both
sharp dew
Speaking of aoe, got a 965 iron relic from my m cache today and I have one at 945 currently, so bastion+revenge
new one is bastion+ss crit or last stand
+6 weapon ilvls though
prisma crane
that's rough, but i feel like i'd go with the 965
sharp dew
But I've never really paid attention to know if lvls on the weapon itself are worth more than revenge etc
prisma crane
make everything hit harder
sick sentinel
bastion is bastion. 0.5% on your dmg is neglected by ilvl
prisma crane
and in aoe, our output matters, but 1 relic isnt going to make or break, idk
sick sentinel
Equip the 965 with last stand imho
prisma crane
i'd prob use the SS one
sharp dew
yeah cuz it's only like 3%? doesn't seem like much, and having 10% more LS seems cool because ehp ya know, gotta look cool xD
sick sentinel
Argus Maintank @sharp dew ?
sharp dew
Yeah I was leaning more towards ss because 5% more crit seems good
prisma crane
but having a huge "heal" that LS is is nice too
sharp dew
Only on aggy atm and it's super fun!...
sick sentinel
From Logs most SS are NOT in BC, so it's fine for dps
sick sentinel
You are playing with t20 still?
sick sentinel
Only getting 25% uptime with t21 4pc now adays
prisma crane
yea but that's only SS in that 25%
so unless you get amazing procs in the rest
idk
either way, SS is more dmg, even if minor
sharp dew
Depending on what they do for mdi/tournament realm, if all tier ilvls from NH and on are the same, what do you guys think about t19 2p t21 2p
sick sentinel
It is. No offense taken
prisma crane
whereas LS is just a bit more of a "heal" since rarely do i use LS for the max HP potential
sick sentinel
t19 2p, 21800 mastery and dgaf?
sharp dew
like 960 t19 2p
sharp dew
haven't thought that far into it lol
sick sentinel
Use it preemptively, too. Just gotta play safe with our hp pool
prisma crane
i do that as well, but often in those cases 10% more isnt necessary
but dont get me wrong, i love the LS relic thing
sharp dew
LS is used pre pull very often for me in trash packs
sick sentinel
y though?
prisma crane
insta before IP and SB
sick sentinel
Warbringer makes pre pull mitigation worthless most often doesnt it
prisma crane
sometimes just get jibbed
dont charge in
you want to save those "charges" for interrupts
i like to leap in
sharp dew
ranged magic abilities that are instant-throw coin lower kara
sick sentinel
I see. Need more time for m+ 😦
sick sentinel
Nah
prisma crane
i always pre SR
sick sentinel
SR before pulling
prisma crane
still hurt on teeming when there's two of them
sick sentinel
For 0 dmg the torches
prisma crane
i dont think it's fully reflected, just DR no?
sharp dew
yeah, even with sr throw coin can one shot if there are multiple
full reflect for torch
prisma crane
ah, kk
prisma crane
lol, so just pre-SR the coin? i thought it was physical
sharp dew
get druid healer, skip to opera, gg
sick sentinel
Only pre-SR torches was my understanding
sharp dew
I've been trying to buy the expac for a couple hours now even when there was no queue to wait for and it just said unavailable at the time even though asmongold got it at the same time I was trying to, feelsbad
prisma crane
yea, same
prisma crane
fucking stupid payment errors now though
sharp dew
that's the one i'm trying to do : /
sick sentinel
I'm off to bed.. nighty
sharp dew
clicked ingame shop and it says like 2k queue 😦 Night becks!
sick sentinel
Worked when I preordered ingame o.0
prisma crane
i wanted to get it before i got home from work lol
sick sentinel
2hrs ago though
prisma crane
rip
prisma crane
lol
im getting sea of thieves
for shore
haHAA
also, you already know like half the ppl here in this channel will pre-order wow
ember arrow
yea
junior ivy
do youy get anything for pre purchasing?
ember arrow
doesnt change much
junior ivy
IM NOT OKAY WITH THIS
prisma crane
it's the same price it's always been
and for pre-purchase you "get" the ability to do some of the stuff early, like play the new races
junior ivy
all i care about is the stupid mounts
prisma crane
but nothing actually additional that those who buy later would get
prisma crane
as long as you get the deluxe
prisma crane
Legion was the same price
prisma crane
As was MoP iirc
and, if anything, with inflation, it's arguably cheaper
though, you live in Canada, so maybe Legion was cheaper with different conversion rates then
idk how your economy was, then vs now
junior ivy
i forget how much i even paid for legion
prisma crane
there was a point though where your funny money was the same as ours almost, but now i think it's back how it was
timid jay
digital deluxe was 60€, and thats 91 canadian $$
prisma crane
for Legion?
timid jay
BFA
prisma crane
ah, yea, but comparing to legion prices i mean
timid jay
Is I suppose I should have written
merry cave
Blizz games are always expensive
prisma crane
dont ppl have jobs?
junior ivy
i just dont wanna think about that $90 til closer to september
prisma crane
i mean, we all play this game a LOT
timid jay
Speak for yoursellf
junior ivy
true we arre all payin $21 a month
timid jay
I play discord instead
junior ivy
actually americans are probably payin less than $21 a month
prisma crane
go out to a movie or hell, a bar
junior ivy
but im payin $21 a month
prisma crane
and cost / hr is way cheaper with wow
yea, i pay $14/month
but i get 3 month at a time and it's USD
warm plinth
It's not $90 for deluxe. It's $70
warm plinth
Oh
junior ivy
its $90 in my money
prisma crane
value is the same though
you'd need 5 tokens in game
and i can promise you right now
token prices are going to be up today
warm plinth
Tokens are gonna skyrocket
prisma crane
and for the next couple wks
junior ivy
lol yeh ill n ever make that much gold
the other day i had 439 gold at one point now im up to 27k
prisma crane
i get about 30-40k per M+ run
junior ivy
you sell em?
prisma crane
yea, ppl dont just pay me 😉
prisma crane
provided you have ppl who want to buy
junior ivy
its like 50/50 chance if i beat timer on a +15
although if i had a good group
dedicated group
maybe
junior ivy
its 50/50 cause of random pugs
prisma crane
since 1 is the buyer, dont forget
we usually let our buyer just full afk
sometimes it's better that way
but even if they die, idc
i only want to 1 chest it
warm plinth
You can carry me and let me afk Krotos. Fo' free 😉
prisma crane
otherwise you run into instance lock issues if you run too fast
but that's pretty rare unless lots of maw and stuff
lol
my group wouldnt like that
junior ivy
how often do you sell them
prisma crane
but im around 2.9m gold atm
prisma crane
i havent sold in a while, not in a rush
but mondays are obv the best days for it
but getting 120-150k per run is easy
warm plinth
Yeah, people trying to get the key in under the wire
junior ivy
i need a way to make gold
prisma crane
selling keys is the fastest way
warm plinth
Idk, I don't feel like gold is really a requirement in this expansion
junior ivy
theres stuffi want though like mounts i cant afford
warm plinth
I don't do jack to earn money on purpose and don't even really do WQs or anything and I always have enough for repairs and consumables
I haven't used the AH in like a month
Other than to buy
prisma crane
just set goals and hit them
junior ivy
oi spent like 25k on consumables today just to stock up for the week
prices on my realm suck
junior ivy
yeh i need an alchemist
warm plinth
Not gonna lie, I don't even use consumables in dungeons usually other than potions 😂
prisma crane
and sell the extras
warm plinth
I use my ghetto flask and if that's on CD I just go without
junior ivy
well it came in handy casue i practiclaly soloed the dungeon lol
warm plinth
Yeah but you don't need a flask to solo the dungeon haha.
junior ivy
ha i gues not
sick sentinel
how can I get into a hc group to get curve when I need curve
junior ivy
right now my only way of making gold is selling chaos crystals
from stuff i DE
and it gets me by
junior ivy
or make your own group
prisma crane
or that
junior ivy
did you guys find chromie scenario hard
prisma crane
not really
junior ivy
k im bout to try it
prisma crane
it was fun because you're scaled to 1000 ilvl
and back in ToS that was massive
now it's still large but not the same jump
prisma crane
im sure there's youtube and wowhead guides for it