i think xhilag is a cut now
#Big Demon DH
cosmic zinc
spice hemlock
and i really do think crushclaw is worse than treasure guard
or rather, its worse generally, just possibly made up for with the upside of 100% evoker tutoring
yeah the v3 list i posted feels fine but i also find myself missing stheno a lot
sacred sequoia
do you end up having enchanter/arcanist in hand a lot?
viral zinc
personally im a big fan of crushclaw instead of treasure guards
it feels like 50% of drawing evoker is already good enough since I hard mulligan for evoker in the first place and with 3 draw cards
it seems like it missed the point of running crushclaw
but in play it is more like a "plan b", if it makes sense to you
calm ledge
one of the original appeals of guard is that it soaks up 5 face damage
spell dh will just ignore the crush and go face
spice hemlock
do you end up having enchanter/arcanist in hand a lot?
decently often, which is why 4 feels like a tad too much
sacred sequoia
one of the original appeals of guard is that it soaks up 5 face damage
yeah and to me it seems like, that we quite quickly (at least me) underestimate that,- but if you play against the card you can tell it has impact. crushclaw is probably better in matchups, there you´ll have a bit more time to build
spice hemlock
thats part of why i dont love it. i feel like this deck beats most slow matchups fairly reliably
so my concern tends to be more with how do we make sure we survive v the fast decks without sacrificing our lategame
treasure guard is just so clutch in those matchups without being garbage in the slow ones
no treasure guard and no immolation aura makes paladin really rough imo
since treasure guard is so good for popping divine shields and letting you dictate trades
viral zinc
i will play more at top 1k legend and report back, i honestly dont value treasure guard that much, perhaps im just lucky these few days with paladin matchups, they were close but i was able to buy enough time with stheno
im not facing too much spell dh so that could be the reason i can get away with my card selection
spice hemlock
i will play more at top 1k legend and report back, i honestly dont value treasur...
it's very possible youre right for your meta
things get a bit weird and insular at top 1k legend
(from what i understand, never been that high)
its functionally impossible for any one of us to provide a holistically accurate picture
viral zinc
im trying enchanter out after seeing your list, pretty interesting as well
but ya just wanted to share what is working for me since the deck is still not perfectly refined
spice hemlock
aye, doing gods work. definitely a lot of unanswered questions for this archetype
give no xhilag a try sometime and see if you like that too
unique crest
I'm waiting for the next report like it's Christmas
Maybe it will get things a bit clearer?
spice hemlock
Hope so but there seems to be too little data on some of the interesting ideas (enchanters, no xhilag, or the two together) as of now
spice hemlock
I'm not sure. I think it's extremely difficult to do much to swing that. Treasure guards are good because they protect v glaivetar, but also our main way of winning is racing them down so maybe the crushclaw build with the extra slots devoted to lifesteal spells + spell amplifiers is the better approach.
cosmic zinc
The treasure guard list seems better in legend against spell DH
About even
The crusher one has smaller sample size but looks a lot worse
Which make sense since you block the weapon swings you would lose more so to just sinful brand. And if they don’t draw it early you can win
small flicker
aight ill stay treasure guard
calm ledge
I’m trying two chaos strikes instead of xhi and astalor, seems good
south spire
is there even any angle to gain % against spell dh
Bring robes of protection back to standard
coarse lion
I’m trying two chaos strikes instead of xhi and astalor, seems good
No school teacher or calamity grasp then?
south spire
The robes themselves don't have untargetable I think, but the illidari can't reach them behind your annihilon
coarse lion
[[robes of protection]]
wheat stirrupBOT
small flicker
ok it does then
coarse lion
Also have it themselves
spice hemlock
No school teacher or calamity grasp then?
i dont think school teacher has really been tried
but it doesnt make much sense
the 4 slot is quite contested and we dont even maindeck all the viable spells we could run
coarse lion
I know WorldEight was talkin about it earlier
calm ledge
I tried school teacher for a bit. The predation activator was nice, and the nagaling pool is pretty good. We just need more spells for evoker on curve though
The school teachers made it feel like a more well rounded deck, but other decks were just getting under me too much when I couldn’t activate evoker on curve
lucid grove
omg there's a place to talk about this deck
I've been considering cutting astalor and xhilag but I just can't find good fits to replace them
doing some back reading I see a few similar ideas being floated around
like crushclaw + naga package
calm ledge
I've tried two approaches when cutting astalor / xhi. the first was two school teachers (felt good, but slow) and the second is two chaos strikes
I think there's a lot of experimentation, including cards like glaivetar, calamity's grasp
spice hemlock
I've been considering cutting astalor and xhilag but I just can't find good fits...
im currently liking this approach
Big Demons V.2
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
2x (1) Illidari Studies
2x (1) Taste of Chaos
2x (1) Unleash Fel
1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
1x (2) Immolation Aura
2x (2) Spectral Sight
2x (3) Enchanter
1x (3) Lady S'theno
2x (3) Predation
2x (3) Treasure Guard
1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
2x (6) Felscale Evoker
2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAdKLBQSXoAT7vwSkkgXj+AUNgIUE1J8EtKAEh7cEmLoEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIF9ZwFkKUFsvUF4fgFAAA=
To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
calm ledge
back to thalnos I see
calm ledge
enchanter and a demon eats up zok taunts nicely
lucid grove
Ooooh it helps with zok
I see
Yeah I had no hope of beating druid after zok comes down
spice hemlock
back to thalnos I see
just trying it out
instead of a second immo aura
since i love enchanters over arcanists for everything except unleash fel, thalnos can kind of bridge the gap
since you have 2 mana spare for thalnos on turn 6 with enchanter + unleash
spice hemlock
I didn't even know what that card was until today
yeah its super fuckin niche
but im a bit believer
enchanters rule in this deck
works so well with so many things
lucid grove
But you dropped silver moon arcanist
Wouldn't the two synergize a lot
Btw I have a question about the community deck lists thing
spice hemlock
its kind of one or the other
lucid grove
Can we just create one to discuss any deck
spice hemlock
in theory yeah
people dont really use these so much though
this thread is extremely abnormal
lucid grove
I see
spice hemlock
but give it a shot
lucid grove
I mean it's a great deck
They've been making big demons for ages
And it finally worked
I was kinda thinking of going for like 1 enchanter + 1 or 2 arcanists
Are you guys still trying to make the version without lady s'theno work?
spice hemlock
i fuckin hate that direction
zach says its a sidegrade
provided you dont fuck up the mulligan
people run abyssal depths in that deck and keep keeping it
lucid grove
Xhi'lag is a tough cut for me because I've won a lot of games on its back
Yeah I read that bit of the article
spice hemlock
yeah, xhilag is a tough call, we really just want more data to be able to find out.xhilag can be a big highroll, but also a huge lowroll
ive enjoyed not having him
lucid grove
There's pros and cons
What I noticed is that I play very differently depending on where xhi'lag is
I prefer having it on my hand over getting it from evoker
spice hemlock
exactly
you cant make a plan with 100% reliability from evoker or AFBL with xhilag
he just adds a wrinkle into everything
lucid grove
honestly could it be worth to just run kayn/smothering starfish for zok druid
lucid grove
oh yeah I've done that before
sacred sequoia
le dream
lucid grove
it feels amazing
my favorite is getting all fel from taste of chaos
then using one to infuse the other
spice hemlock
lucid grove
just from 1 og inquisitor
oh yeah I wanted to ask about glaivetar
what makes it a good fit?
it sounds very awkward in this deck to me at first impression
spice hemlock
i dont think ive ever seen anyone suggest running glaivetar in this deck
it isnt actually the worst idea
but ive never heard it until now
lucid grove
I thought I saw that when I was scrolling through this thread
the cost is my main issue with it
spice hemlock
i mean
lucid grove
there's a lot of stuff at 4 mana
spice hemlock
you can charge it with felerin and studies
wep is good for inquisitor
its a lot of draw
but yeah
its probably too awkward
doesnt really make much sense to me
lucid grove
I think I'm gonna go light on changes for now and just replace astalor with kayn
small flicker
i’m not comfortable cutting xi because he scams half the meta
similar to as dasuap said
spare needle
I have been using two chaos strikes instead of astralor and xhilag and its pretty nice
Pretty sweet to always get either 9 mana or 8 mana demon
calm ledge
Feels good in the curve. Sometimes we snipe an arms dealer too
frail dirge
i will play more at top 1k legend and report back, i honestly dont value treasur...
Gave ur list a shot at rank 500ish on NA, and kind of hated the 2x crushclaw. Playing one and it drawing itself is prolly worst feeling ever. Think overall not a fan of xhilag
viral zinc
Gave ur list a shot at rank 500ish on NA, and kind of hated the 2x crushclaw. Pl...
thanks for the feedback, im also moving away for xhilag for now to try it out, feels more consistent
also trying out one enchanter in the deck / ETC with astalor, enchanter, and the 4 mana legendary that lets u ignore taunt
spare needle
Man I like Zach’s eye beam/chaos strike crush claw tutor list more than the regular deck
Double eye beams and crush claw tutors helps a ton vs aggro when your draw bricks
spice hemlock
i believe you re eyebeams
im really struggling to imgine how crushclaw helps against aggro
it didnt feel that way when i played a bunch of games with it
but low sample size
spare needle
I played a couple games where I would have lost against aggro without crush tutor
Helped me turn the corner to end the game
But I am open to not using crush claw. Love the eye beams though
spare needle
im really struggling to imgine how crushclaw helps against aggro
I have been doing the combo where, you already have an evoker. You crushclaw to draw the second evoker. Activated both by turn 6-7, win the game
spare needle
I HATE losing treasure guards for sure
Eye beam doesnt replace it but helps target like unholy necromancer
spice hemlock
yeah honestly that alone
and shadow ascendant i guess
those 2 cards justify eye beam all on their own
its kinda tough, theres a lot of different aggressive strategies that demand different answers
immo aura = goated v totems and paladins
but its a less good v warriors, UDKs, and Spriests
then kind of vice versa with eye beams
spare needle
I am in Diamond 3 and every other game is either Frost DK, Unholy DK, or Shadow priest. So loving eye beam so far
spice hemlock
the version im trying rn is 1 aura and 0 eye beams
maybe i should mix that around
i do love enchanter + immo aura though
that specific combo also happens to dick over reborn shadow priest 3-health minions
spare needle
Immo is a great card
spice hemlock
zachs not wrong though about it being giga dead in a lot of matchups
spare needle
Hopefully the mini set gives us a big demon boy so we can cut xhilag
spice hemlock
it worked for me on the climb to legend when 50% of my games were v aggressive decks and of the remaining 50%, the most common matchup was blood DK who having a dead card against hardly matters
we dont need more demons
we can cut xhilag anyway
more demons makes literally 0 difference to this deck
unless theres a big demon that happens to be better than annihilan
but that seems unlikely
spare needle
Thats true. Hopefully Big DH dodges the nerf bat. Evoker is fine. Just got to experiment with immo and eye beam
lucid grove
zachs not wrong though about it being giga dead in a lot of matchups
I usually pick it from taste of chaos in the matchups where it helps
Also I think big dh needs no nerfing
Only spell dh
Sinful brand kinda reminds me of the awful sorcerer's gambit days where you just don't want to play minions so there's nothing for some spells to target
spice hemlock
Also I think big dh needs no nerfing
For sure
It's a very answerable deck
And it's dominance was only when the two most popular and powerful decks in the meta (frost/blood DK) were countered by it
The deck was already in a healthier spot by the time it even caught on
lucid grove
I'm just so happy with how many options dh has right now
spice hemlock
Yeah it's a benchmark for class design rn
Favourite class bar none rn
Only shaman could compete and we know how that's going 
And maybe warrior
But that's still pending
lucid grove
Shaman looks like it's struggling with diversity this expansion
But warrior has promise
lucid grove
Mood
spice hemlock
Same old
Shamans still my second most played class
Somehow
Despite spending 50% of its existence sucking
lucid grove
Honestly tho shaman always seems so polarized in the time I've played the game
It either has 1 amazing deck or no viable decks
spice hemlock
It was the first class I ever hit rank 5 with. With a homebrew too
lucid grove
Aww that's nice
lucid grove
I started playing for real like a month after dh release
Shaman has been mostly dead the entire time
Sometimes a random B's trick shows up then gets promptly nerfed
And shaman dies again
The parrots, board freeze guy, gnoll transform, etc
spice hemlock
There was a brief moment in voyage where shaman had one of my favourite decks of all time
Bioluminesence sham
lucid grove
Oh I missed that
spice hemlock
The parrots, board freeze guy, gnoll transform, etc
Yeah snowfall guardian carried the class so hard lmao
lucid grove
I played it for the first time some time around 2017
But I never found a class that I liked
So I didn't stick with it
Until demon hunter came out
That's when I really started playing regularly
spice hemlock
So, ashes?
lucid grove
I took a break starting at stormwind because I was just not having fun with mage questline around
Then I came back on the last few days of voyage
sacred sequoia
so many new messages again 
lucid grove
I wish I came back earlier into voyage
sacred sequoia
gotta love this thread
lucid grove
It was a great expansion
I also loved scholomance of course
I only found vicious syndicate recently because rarran gave it a shout-out
In one of his streams
Would've saved me so much dust to have read the articles for this expansion earlier LMAO
spice hemlock
It's funny because arguably VS is a negative influence on the game by refining and helping set the meta so conclusively and quickly
But obv I love it
lucid grove
That's not a bad thing imo because it helps the devs not make bad calls on balance when the meta settles faster
spice hemlock
And as zach has counter argued; its super positive when the meta is good and VS is helping reveal it
Yeah, I don't actually think VS is an overall negative influence. Its just a position one can viably argue for
sacred sequoia
Reddit is definetely a bigger influx of negativity
lucid grove
Which I think sometimes gets assumed
You can have a settled meta that has lots of different decks making waves
It's just not usual because it's a delicate balance
Metas can also look settled when they aren't yet which is always fascinating to see for me
When something new bursts out without any balance changes
Like the sudden explosion of hyper aggro druid back in castle nathria when it looked like everything was just gonna stay denathrius greed decks until the miniset
lucid grove
Reddit is definetely a bigger influx of negativity<:PepeFail:877919670676639805>
Btw on this topic, if you don't have data on demon hunter you'd think lady s'theno needs a nerf based on community reaction
But the vs data analysis was showing her on the verge of getting dropped by multiple archetypes already
sacred sequoia
True, though i would say she´s a fine choice for a card to be nerfed
lucid grove
That's fair I think as a future proofing move
But not as a response to our current issues
She's definitely a card that needs to be kept in mind whenever they design new stuff for demon hunter and neutrals
But I gotta admit I kinda love her flavor
sacred sequoia
~~But I gotta admit I kinda love her flavor~~
i dont even mind losing to her tbh, she has flavour (mostly DROWN, different ways in which she can & should be used (in big dh you dont wait for the best stheno turn most of the time for example...) and she needs at least some braincells before slapping her on the board
spice hemlock
Btw on this topic, if you don't have data on demon hunter you'd think lady s'the...
Tickatus 
I fucking adore stheno
Goated card
Amazing design
lucid grove
Honestly I also hated tickatus but it never made me lose a game LMAO
I just don't like getting my deck burned
lucid grove
Also I think lady s'theno doesn't make for a bad play pattern
If anything she rewards the opponent playing the board
So she can't go face for free
In big dh I find myself using her exactly to fight for board
spice hemlock
Yeah she's a super nuanced card
spare needle
I have been to Legend before but never this early
Deck tracker is toast but I say my win rate was like 65% with Big DH
spare needle
Big DH mirrors are hilarious fun. You pray your evoker pulls out an annihilator and his/her evoker pulls inquisitor and you win
south spire
Common big DH w
small flicker
Big DH mirrors are hilarious fun. You pray your evoker pulls out an annihilator...
can you explain this to me
like why one is preferable
spare needle
9 mana big boy pretty much always survives inquisitor
small flicker
oh duh cuz 9/9 vs 8/8
spare needle
So you kill their minion, do 8 dmg to their face, and keep your 9/1
small flicker
lol that's so sad for the other dh
spare needle
Yeah some poor soul kept reviving the inquisitor and I kept reviving the annihilator
It also means they have to trade the 5/7 into your 9/1. So your 5/7 is free to hit their face
calm ledge
I was building some low curve enrage decks today and ran into a guard / lady wall. I simply couldn’t get past it, and it gave the DH all of the time in the world to get to the big stuff. From the other side, it was not a pleasant experience. Against crushclaw I would have easily been able to snowball the board
sacred sequoia
^ describing my thoughts about guards perfectly 👌
sacred sequoia
trying out Queen Azshara currently, can be quite saucy 😄
tbf she wasn´t needed at all
unique crest
Uhm, so for the report there isn't much difference about the variants' winrate uh
Definitely not what I was expecting
lucid grove
yeah I was expecting crush claw to be worse in this particular meta
unholy makes the taunt ladies feel very nice
unique crest
I get it tho
Shteno build is more versatile while the Crushclaw one gets straight to the point
I guess
lucid grove
Yeah basically
calm ledge
crush or no, seems to be a matter of preference
but tier 1 throughout most of ladder, pretty exciting
cosmic zinc
VS also keeps Xhilag
lucid grove
I love xhi'lag
Definitely not a bad card it's just a different strategy to use it
While the other 2 play the same basically
sacred sequoia
Queen----> Xhi 
lucid grove
oh baby second game today and we already getting kayn value
cosmic zinc
using the crushclaw list at top 300 legend, 3-0 vs 3 blood DKs in a row
VS crushclaw*
lucid grove
blood dk is the matchup we farm
small flicker
based
cosmic zinc
blood DK did boil against my t5 xhilag, but i had all fel and on 6 didnt play it so i could sac xhilag
so then t7 had a XhiLong and they couldnt answer
lol after priest i matched into another blood DK
spice hemlock
VS also keeps Xhilag
im not sure zach has really considered cutting it. theres a current lack of data to support it and its an unintuitive change thats probably not, like, a huge improvement if its even one at all
id really like it if we could get that data
but
calm ledge
I wonder if glowscale is worth considering
spice hemlock
the 2 mana spell damage naga?
calm ledge
Yeah
spice hemlock
cant really imagine why it would be. whats the idea?
calm ledge
Early predation activitor
spice hemlock
yeah its 1 turn earlier than guards/lady
and sure the spell damage is nice
but id rather just run thalnos or another enchanter or something for that if we need it
most of what we want predation to hit early isnt 4 hp
plenty of 3hp targets
not many 4
calm ledge
Well the other thought was actually slither
To fight for early board
Someone suggested it for another riff deck I’m working on, and slither was the perfect card to contest early boards in that deck
I’m more inclined to think about glowscale here because of touch of chaos, eye beam, unleash, etc
spice hemlock
i could see it, for sure
calm ledge
We don’t really have too many turn two plays anyway
spice hemlock
but it doesnt excite me
lucid grove
yeah I don't think the +1 spell damage helps hitting benchmarks
spice hemlock
it can sorta, but yeah, thalnos is just better for that because he also gives you a draw
lucid grove
I'm still playing arcanist currently
cosmic zinc
i think the 2 plays are okay its usually studies + discounted spell or HP+Taste
im keeping arcanist in atm too since i feel its better against blood and control priest
which have been literally my 5 last MUs now
Enchanter i think great against Zok though
waiting to see if enchanter ever pops up on hsreplay
cosmic zinc
ya kayne not bad
calm ledge
I think Kayn is likely the best call right now
lucid grove
it has already won me a match
calm ledge
Just spit ballin with the glowscale idea
cosmic zinc
also could potentially help around swarmguard like killing the rancher or just killing the green DK
im not entirely sold on abyssal in crusher list
its so dead in control matchup
maybe i swap it for kayn
spice hemlock
its so dead in control matchup
eh, it at least draws 2
cosmic zinc
true
maybe later ill try enchanters again. arcanist always has such a bad drawn WR since it basically only used with unleash fel
lucid grove
I don't use it only for that
I use it to get breakpoints with predation and taste of chaos too
like arcanist predation gets rid of rancher in one go
cosmic zinc
ya but then doesnt enchanter do the same thing for that
and also works with outcast spells
like the pings
tokens*
spice hemlock
on some spells it adds more
not some
enchanter is better with literally anything and everything you can possibly do
except for unleash fel
thats always been the dichotomy
lucid grove
it breaks even with multiple
spice hemlock
a few
lucid grove
better on a few
lucid grove
taste of chaos
spice hemlock
i do mean literally everythingf
lucid grove
immolation aura
spice hemlock
nop, not immo aura
arcanist + immo aura = 4 damage to enemy board and 4 damage to yours and your arcanist is dead at the end
lucid grove
both do 4 because arcanist dies midway
spice hemlock
enchanter + immo aura = 4 damage to enemy board, 2 damage to yours, enchanter is alive at the end
huge difference
taste of chaos, youre right
but thats about it
lucid grove
oh yeah I was thinking more on the final damage
spice hemlock
and then consider
hero power, dispose of evidence, things currently on board, stheno (fucking nuts with enchanter), eye beams, and basically everything you can generate from studies/felerin
lucid grove
ooooooh s'theno
spice hemlock
including the 2/1 rusher, security (also giganuts with enchanter), ganarg, and eye beam again
im tellin you
enchanter is flat out better in almost every situation imaginable
lucid grove
okay I see what you're cooking
spice hemlock
the only reason its not a slam dunk
is that unleash fel is the single most important thing
lucid grove
ye
spice hemlock
so being worse at that one thing arguably is a bigger deal than being better at everything else
but i do relatively strongly believe that enchanters > arcanists, and its a shame not enough people have tried them to give us the data to prove it
for example
y'all tryna cook up kayn
lucid grove
it's also way more dust
lucid grove
if enchanter wasn't the same mana cost I'd have crafted it already
spice hemlock
it's also way more dust
this is prob relevant yeah
it took me a while to be sold on enchanters
but my legend climb this season took about 58 games from the start of diamond
39-19
and i ran 2 enchanters and 0 arcanists in the list i used
lucid grove
I didn't keep track properly but mine was probably close to that
spice hemlock
im also kinda interested in a thalnos alongside the enchanters, because on turn 6 you can enchanter + thalnos + unleash fel and thats kinda nuts
lucid grove
1998 total dh wins to like 2050 something
lucid grove
im also kinda interested in a thalnos alongside the enchanters, because on turn ...
I was interested in enchanter + arcanist lol
could kill zok with unleash fels
spice hemlock
i tried running both
inc 2 of each
and 2 of one and 1 of the other
that kinda felt a bit overkill
lucid grove
hmmm
spice hemlock
i spent way too much time with a spell amplifier in hand
i think you want 2, possibly + thalnos, but probably not
lucid grove
if you replace 2 arcanist for 2 enchanters then thalnos over astalor on the dafault I think that fits
sacred sequoia
wait why is taste of chaos better with arcanist? aren´t both 4 dmg?
lucid grove
it's even
sacred sequoia
oh i thought the argument was that it is better with arcanist, my bad
lucid grove
the one you can argue is better with the same damage is immolation aura because it's not enough to kill enchanter
lucid grove
what do you drop for eye beam?
sacred sequoia
this is my list currently
spice hemlock
wait why is taste of chaos better with arcanist? aren´t both 4 dmg?
thats the one instance where its literally bang on even
sacred sequoia
azshara is experimental
(also for the fun value)
i like eye beams a lot,- since it gives good lifesteal and targeted removal
lucid grove
oh so you dropped 1 treasure guard and astalor for it
do you think enchanters help with unholy more than arcanists?
sacred sequoia
Yes, that and it contests better against bigger boards. I would say it is quite close between them though
lucid grove
new blood tech attempt
sacred sequoia
He might want to live up to his name 
lucid grove
LUL
spice hemlock
oh so you dropped 1 treasure guard and astalor for it
one doesnt really 'drop' astalor from this list
he just sorta sneaks in when nothing else is in the slot
lucid grove
lol yeah
lucid grove
he's total filler in this deck
oh btw do enchanters stack the same way that old demon from the il'gnoth combo
lucid grove
lol
calm ledge
oh btw do enchanters stack the same way that old demon from the il'gnoth combo
No they are an aura, like brann
sacred sequoia
I am pretty sure big dh is hard favoured against Ctrl priest,- feels like a 70-30 matchup
spice hemlock
is it?
id felt like that was one where they were favoured
anyone got numbers on that MU?
would be kinda nuts if big dh consistently beats cpriest too
spice hemlock
oh damn
calm ledge
I think I’m sold on the enchanters over arcanist… but I think I’ll probably run the glowscale a as my 29/30 for a little too
cosmic zinc
They can’t put out early game pressure like blood can and no lifesteal taunt
cosmic zinc
Think you only really lose if they delete your cards with whirlpool
cosmic zinc
I ran crushclaw so I had evoker by 6 in the 3 games though so maybe I high rolled more
spice hemlock
i mustve just had some slow games where their removal all lined up really well
cosmic zinc
Their pop star clear also not great in response to Xhilag because Xhilag either dies or you trade it and AFBL after
Since pop star leaves up a body
spice hemlock
not if its the 6 dmg one
cosmic zinc
Yeah in that case you can just play AFBL for XhiLong right away
spice hemlock
oh i see
my problem there though
is that if they can then answer that
your AFBL is toast for the rest of the game
but maybe that provides enough pressure it usually works out?
cosmic zinc
My single AFBL always summon the 5/7 but yeh that is a drawback
lucid grove
lol
spice hemlock
if thats even an option you dont do it
unless you win the game if you win the flip
lucid grove
yeah I only ever use it uninfused if I have no other choice
like I'll die if I don't go for the good one
spice hemlock
yeah thats right
lucid grove
I'm not liking the enchanter tbh
I'm too used to having all the unleash fel breakpoints at 3
it's like the spell I pick the most from discover
spice hemlock
it requires some play adjustment
but i do get you
maybe theyre bad, or not for you
but dont give up on them quite yet
takes some time to get a feel for how you can be creative with it
lucid grove
My favorite thing right now is winning matches even without getting my evoker
The deck isn't just tied down to a single gimmick
calm ledge
evoker is definitely a huge power outlier
but it's not like big druid, which is whomp or die
lucid grove
yeah exactly
latent kernel
south spire
But u need a full golden collection to even think about queuing a game
lucid grove
Oh yeah the game is super f2p friendly nowadays
Specially if you don't fancy playing multiple classes
You can even be irresponsible with your dust
And not struggle
I've made sooooo many bad decisions with my dust LMAO
It helps that I don't like the way golden cards look so I dust them all
modest star
Lol bunny's winrate gheeez
cosmic zinc
yeah deck is realllly good at high legend atm
i just climbed from 400 to below 100
Went like 14-4
with crusher list
i think i played only like 1 aggro deck. was mostly all blood dk, then some druid and couple control priest
lucid grove
Nice
unique crest
S'theno enjoyers, can you explain to me the appeal of that version of the deck?
I guess it's subjective but without Evoker tutors I feel so lost
Like, I'm praying to draw it for turn much more ahah
And Treasure Guard vs aggro has felt, meh, idk
Eye Beams do a better job imo, I get that Guard is also needed for Predation, but still
lucid grove
I like s'theno version because it feels like I can defend myself without just rushing to get the evoker from a draw
there are other game plans
unique crest
Why do they have to nerf this
I was having such a good time 🥲
Plus the first time we have a functional big demon hunter deck
I bet on Evoker going to 7
lucid grove
If they do that then it's just like
Why do you even make all these cards
I've been annoyed for so long about the weak big demons doing nothing in the class
Now that they aren't pack filler you just nuke the deck?
Ain't no way
Just nerf evoker stats
nimble yoke
Just make him a 4/6 or smth 
cosmic zinc
Yeah 7 mana going to kill the deck
Too late to get anything against aggro and Blood DK now gets to their 8 mana clear faster
spice hemlock
Are you fucking kidding me
What the actual fuck
Why does evoker need to be nerfed
And predation too
lucid grove
Predation nerf is so random
Literally unplayable no matter what the nerf is
Just replace with eyebeam on every deck
Praying the evoker nerf is just a bit of stats
sacred sequoia
unique crest
cosmic zinc
Yeah stat change is fine considering if they don’t kill off the less threatening evoker now you get all fel easy Rez
unique crest
I'm going to be so fucking mad
small flicker
tomorrow we find out
sacred sequoia
For now we live another day 
lucid grove
LMAO
cosmic zinc
So it lived woo
does predation change possible mean crusher better?
but mana nerf might help in cases you need to hardcast it for evoker with no nagas drawn
sacred sequoia
does predation change possible mean crusher better?
I think so, yes. We already have a few cards, which hit the 2 DMG mark, but predation was good, because of the 3dmg mark imo.
I do think that the -2 attack will be a decent hit to the deck. Good thing about the HP not being targeted is that if is still hard to be killed by priest and blood
cosmic zinc
definitely means AFBL needs to be hopefully infused now
since a miss would be 3/7 now
deck still lives though which is great
calm ledge
We also definitely want Xhi, I know we were floating on cutting it, but our AFBL got a bit worse all around
cosmic zinc
yeah i liked running Xhi still
i tried without and just did worse but could have been doing it wrong
the drawn WR of Xhi wasnt bad on hsreplayt either
lucid grove
So they went for the attack instead of the health huh
I really like treasure guard so I'm gonna be trying to just replace s'theno and predation
cosmic zinc
Just swapped to Big DH and played a Blood DK that ratted my green rag on 4 and couldnt kill on that turn lol. Had two AFBL as follow ups as well
lucid grove
Nice
sacred sequoia
How are people still missplaying the rat that often
lucid grove
the drawn WR of Xhi wasnt bad on hsreplayt either
Xhi'lag is way better in your hand than in your deck
That way you can optimize your evoker plan for one of the big boys and still have the xhi'lag ready for when you need it
lucid grove
Big Demon Hunter
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
2x (1) Illidari Studies
2x (1) Taste of Chaos
2x (1) Unleash Fel
1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
2x (2) Spectral Sight
1x (3) Crushclaw Enforcer
2x (3) Eye Beam
2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
2x (3) Silvermoon Sentinel
1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
2x (6) Felscale Evoker
1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss
2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAc7WAwSXoASEsgT+vwSkkgUNgIUE1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0EgYYFi5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFsvUF4fgFAAA=
To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
the list I'm gonna be running for now if anyone wants to tag along
unique crest
Does Abyssal Depths perform that bad?
lucid grove
I really like having that turn 3 taunt
lucid grove
crushclaw added over s'theno
lucid grove
moved the cycling to crushclaw and thalnos
calm ledge
I know there are some enchanter fans here
calm ledge
I see the argument for a 2/5 taunt
Really hard for a lot of decks to get through, even before mana thirst
lucid grove
yeah the manathirst just makes it not such a dead draw later in the game
the idea is to play it on curve as much as possible
and not hold for manathirst
gotta give credit to @hexed sphinx for helping me find it
hexed sphinx
finally a crushclaw list without abyssal depths
lucid grove
the changes I made are basically
2x predation > 2x eye beam
s'theno > crushclaw
2x treasure guard > 2x sentinel
astalor > thalnos
small flicker
i just took the stock crushclaw list and swapped eyebeam for preds
is that not corret?
c*
unique crest
Eye Beams help a lot
But we have to see how this format shapes itself
In any case, shoutout to the Control Priest who sniped with Rat my Evoker on turn 3
The only other two minions I had were Annihilan and Inquisitor, but yay chances
cosmic zinc
The meta might becoming more favorable again to big DH at top 1k legend
Less people playing Chaddius and more frost/relic/control which big dh is favored
calm ledge
the frost match up is terrific
lunar meteor
Big dh is unfavored into chaddius?
lucid grove
Big dh is unfavored into chaddius?
unique crest
Big dh is unfavored into chaddius?
The deck really struggles to clear big minions
You can manage Drathir and Colossus but a 11/11 with taunt is a bit problematic
lucid grove
"a bit"
You need all of your resources to get rid of 2 thaddius
And it just gets revived over and over again
lunar meteor
Yeah but they don’t usually hit thaddius
lucid grove
Guess I've gotten unlucky 11 matches in a row then 💀
lucid grove
what should I replace xhi'lag with if I drop it
deep flame
fuck this xhilag card man i keep hitting the 20% vs control
lucid grove
yeah I'm on the same situation recently unfortunately
getting xhi'lag at really bad times
calm ledge
From HSR data, despite the nerfs, the OG predation list still out performs the crushclaw list. I was running that list with two chaos strikes instead of astalor / xhi for a bit, felt pretty good
lucid grove
Due to the rise of the new enrage warrior which consistently buffs minions above usual thresholds for demon hunter aoe I'm slotting in topple the idol
Just one copy for now but it has already saved my skin
It's more of a hail marry play since you're actually hurting yourself if you dredge one of the biggest boys
But if you dredge an evoker it's a lucky double whammy
Dropped xhi'lag for it since it's also a death sentence when you pull it from evoker in this matchup
sacred sequoia
@lucid grove in which ranked bracket are you playing? haven´t seen much enrage warrior myself
i see tons of control priest, blood & frost dk´s and everything else (aside from no shaman at all) is kinda even
sacred sequoia
Sometimes the mighty fall to gain new strength and arise with a new dawn
south spire
I'm trying a variant of big dh and the thaddius matchup really makes you feel like an idiot for loading up the deck
lunar meteor
Ur just unlucky
I’m 4-1 into warlock
Warlock has like no agency anyway it doesn’t matter which deck you play as long as you don’t run hard removal
south spire
I feel likevu fint need agency when u have slime
cosmic zinc
If you are really facing alot of chad in your meta could try swapping in a royal librarian maybe?
chadlock does beat big dh because it scams are better but chad is weaker into aggro(the big demon/big undead version at least)
lucid grove
I'm just taking the Chad matchup as a loss and adapting to other stuff now
Unless a single silence on the slime is enough to turn it around
Do you think it is?
lunar meteor
Vs says it’s a 50% matchup and I doubt that switching away from stheno and treasure guard hurts the matchup a ton
lucid grove
New report out already?
lunar meteor
I suppose royal librarian is actually really good vs warlock not just vs slime but for the undead taunt as well, and it’s kinda situationally decent vs thaddius and drathir ig
lunar meteor
New report out already?
Old one but neither deck changed much?
lucid grove
Zach said on podcast warlock is definitely favored
Warlock is close to even with relic
lunar meteor
What relic is supposed to be shit vs big decks
lucid grove
And that lines up with my experience
lunar meteor
Dam maybe we do need to nerf relic dh
lucid grove
Relic has plenty bad matchups
lucid grove
Me too
My entire weekend was thaddius every other match
And I lost almost all of them
And worst is how many times I was close to killing them before getting completely walled off and then they heal up behind the taunts
lunar meteor
There are a ton of warlocks still, I don’t think teching librarian is too crazy tbh
You have some bad cards in the deck anyway
lucid grove
Alright guess I'll try that
unique crest
Zach said that it expects the Enforcer version to have a small advantage on the shteno one in the next days
If I heard right
Makes sense I guess?
calm ledge
here's something extra spicy
AAECAe+/BAKEsgSkkgUOgIUE1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIF9ZwFkKUFpMMF9MMFsvUF4fgFAAA=
wheat stirrupBOT
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 4340
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1) Illidari Studies
# ⬜ 2x (1) Taste of Chaos
# 🟦 2x (1) Unleash Fel
# ⬜ 2x (2) SECURITY!!
# ⬜ 2x (2) Spectral Sight
# 🟦 1x (3) Crushclaw Enforcer
# 🟪 2x (3) Enchanter
# 🟪 2x (3) Eye Beam
# 🟨 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
# 🟦 2x (4) Glaivetar
# 🟦 2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
# ⬜ 2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
# 🟦 2x (6) Felscale Evoker
# 🟦 2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
# 🟪 2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAea5AwKEsgSkkgUOgIUE1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIF9ZwFkKUFpMMF9MMFsvUF4fgFAA==
# You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/5394459
glaivetar to dig for AFBL and as a finisher
Enchanter is probably better then arcanist when we run SECURITY!!
this build will have lots of from hand damage
calm ledge
I'll take it to ladder later, will report back 
unique crest
south spire
kill them
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
2x (1) Fierce Outsider
2x (1) Illidari Studies
2x (1) Taste of Chaos
2x (1) Unleash Fel
1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn
2x (2) Chaos Strike
1x (2) Spectral Sight
2x (3) Eye Beam
1x (3) Rush the Stage
2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
2x (4) Glaivetar
2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
1x (5) Bone Glaive
2x (6) Felscale Evoker
1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss
2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
AAECAc7WAwa0oAS1swT+vwSkkgXipAXr9QUMgIUEtp8E1J8E7KAEpeIEiJIFi5IFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAAA=
To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Draft 1
This is what I've been jamming last 24hrs
This was the list I was inspired by
I want to cut astalor for a second spectral
And would like to fit bibliomite
Over like rush the stage
lunar meteor
Why would you cut the annihilan and not the xhilag
Xhilag doesn’t kill shit it just mildly inconveniences a few enemy minions
south spire
I cut it bc xhilag always does damage while annihilon doesn't always
And I want the deck to beat control priest and relic dh
south spire
Xhilag doesn’t kill shit it just mildly inconveniences a few enemy minions
Xhilag makes a threatening board and deals 8 to face
Also it's less of a big deck to facilitate the outcast stuff. I'm going for a spell dh sort of play pattern
Maybe I try security like world8 has in their list
lunar meteor
Xhilag is so easy to clear for relic dh and cpriest though
Also even cpriest and relic dh tend to play some minions
south spire
Okie dokie
unique crest
And I want the deck to beat control priest and relic dh
Doesn't the deck already have a good matchup vs Control Priest?
south spire
How do
calm ledge
Glaivatar feels good in the small sample size I’ve run. Security is kind of meh so far
Enchanter was a mistake. Definitely back to arcanist
lucid grove
Relatable
south spire
Also loving galaivetar
annihilate DN
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
2x (1) Illidari Studies
2x (1) Taste of Chaos
2x (1) Unleash Fel
1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn
2x (2) Bibliomite
2x (2) Chaos Strike
2x (2) Spectral Sight
2x (3) Eye Beam
2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
2x (4) Glaivetar
2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
1x (5) Bone Glaive
2x (6) Felscale Evoker
1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss
2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
AAECAc7WAwS1swT+vwSkkgXipAUNgIUEtp8E1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIExuIEi5IFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAAA=
To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
This version also holding its own so far
lunar meteor
Glaivatar feels good in the small sample size I’ve run. Security is kind of meh ...
maybe crimson sigil runner over security?
lunar meteor
annihilate DN
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Disp...
I think if you dont run enforcer wretched sage is really good with glaivetar and discounting ini general
south spire
That is true. How would you like to fit it
calm ledge
maybe crimson sigil runner over security?
We need spells to activate crush and evoker. Chaos strike is another option
lunar meteor
maybe but chaos strike is mid
I think chaos strike is always just filler
like its not terrible but it isnt good either
south spire
Are there spells u wanna run over it
W8 is right. Can't mess too much with the spell count
lunar meteor
hm looking at the standard dh spells not really
immolation aura has proven time and time to be shit in terms of wr and stuff
too many minions for mark of scorn
I def prefer chaos strike over abyssal depths
topple is kinda interesting but its really expensivie and not exactly something you are activating evoker/crusher with
south spire
True
Finished day 12 - 8. Damage plus damage = dead opponent
Got a couple turn 5 lethals
cosmic zinc
The highest list on legend is crusher with immolation aura. 760 games. Immolation aura is like middle of the pack in drawn WR too
calm ledge
hmm that's not exactly what I'm seeing
OG list is at 55%, single crush / depths list is at 55%, double crush is at 50% at D-L
glaive looks pretty bad in the stats, despite how it's "feeling" for me right now
cosmic zinc
i was just looking at legend stats
calm ledge
should be fine to get over 3 wins
modest star
do we beat relic DH ?
calm ledge
sometimes, it's not a terrible match up
really depends if they get vault online early
if they don't, they often run out of gas clearing the big demons
lunar meteor
Enriff is a big problem
Thoughts on the topple the idol somebody here suggested?
It should be pretty nuts if you hit a big guy vs warrior
lucid grove
yeah that was the idea
lunar meteor
I’m really liking glaivetar so far
Though not sure if it’s just variance or if it’s actually glaivetar causing me to win so much
lunar meteor
```
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 4340
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1)...
im a big fan of this list but with arcanist instead of enchanter
glaivetar is insane damage from hand
it also draws a crap ton too and helps a ton both in games where you didn't get your evoker stuff and allows you to draw into summoning big demons albeit slower, but also for those games where you did get some early big demons but need that extra 8 damage to finish the opponent off
I tried running sigiil runner, I think sigil runner sucks, probably replace security for chaos strike not sure
calm ledge
yeah, I switched back to arcanist immediately
and chaos strike would be much better
AAECAbaRBQKEsgSkkgUOgIUEtp8E1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAAA=
wheat stirrupBOT
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 3540
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1) Illidari Studies
# ⬜ 2x (1) Taste of Chaos
# 🟦 2x (1) Unleash Fel
# ⬜ 2x (2) Chaos Strike
# ⬜ 2x (2) Spectral Sight
# 🟦 1x (3) Crushclaw Enforcer
# 🟪 2x (3) Eye Beam
# ⬜ 2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
# 🟨 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
# 🟦 2x (4) Glaivetar
# 🟦 2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
# ⬜ 2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
# 🟦 2x (6) Felscale Evoker
# 🟦 2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
# 🟪 2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAea5AwKEsgSkkgUOgIUEtp8E1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAA==
# You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/5196704
this list likes to go face
plain mesa
good deck but im dying to undead priest before turn 6
lucid grove
no taunt moment
south spire
plain mesa
bruh a blood dk just dirty rat my evoker turn 2
lucid grove
F
lunar meteor
good deck but im dying to undead priest before turn 6
The matchup is barely unfavored
calm ledge
I think the best defensive version is still the one with guards
which is why it's still relevant
lucid grove
that's why I'm trying to slot taunts into crushclaw
not having cycle on them sometimes is rough tho
calm ledge
oh right, with the sentinals
lucid grove
yes
cosmic zinc
So relic dh utilizes applebaum wonder if that’s worth a shot
Dropping like depths or something
calm ledge
Our biggest challenge is still snowball decks (paladin, totem, undead, warrior). We really need a way to stop the snowball before it starts if we can
We already have a Reno effect, it’s just not enough sometimes
south spire
annihilate DN
Class: Demon Hunter
Format: Standard
Year of the Wolf
2x (0) Disp...
Now 22-13 with this pile
The weapons and more consistent face damage from the big boys feels nice into the meta with the rise in frost
Still haven't given the security a shot
nimble yoke
just murdered 2 control priests with the weapon list, 10/10
unique crest
So maybe Applebaum is worth a shot uh
It's not like we do a lot of proactive things before turn 5 anyway
Felscreamer shenenigans aside
calm ledge
I’ve been taking the predation list to THL, I have the highest confidence in that list (two chaos strikes over astalor / xhi)
unique crest
What is THL?
south spire
Team hearth league
Play as a team, get a matchup everyweek
Regular season and playoffs.
It's fun and open to players of a lot of different experiences and skill levels
cosmic zinc
Is that the college league?
I did that back when Patron was meta with control lock was super fun
south spire
Nope
calm ledge
no, it's an independent league. it's pretty competitive, with a lot of "big name" players in it who participate between actual tournaments. the short version is, I'm still confident in the predation list
unique crest
Cool
I'm trying it back too
But with Xhilag/Astalor
I'm torn between the two versions ahah
I like the latter being more streamlined, but having more things to do besides drawing sounds nice
Even if I haven't used shteno once
lucid grove
crusher?
cosmic zinc
Enforcer*
cosmic zinc
Yeah that’s what I figured too
It also might be only list without Xhilag
On hsreplay
calm ledge
Double crush without xhi was the best performer before the patch
cosmic zinc
Yeah it looks like they run fanatics too
Arcanist becomes a much better card in the deck
And one immo aira which looks not bad actually
unique crest
I wonder how this deck will do post miniset
/What could we include from it
cosmic zinc
Tomorrow morning we get dh/rogue cards I think
lucid grove
new 0 mana spell
cosmic zinc
Could be a weapon that maybe works?
cosmic zinc
So I guess one use of that sap demon is if we are playing Chaddius to pick it off studies to use on slime?
lucid grove
Yep
cosmic zinc
Yeah I never liked the change effects each turn card
unique crest
So I guess one use of that sap demon is if we are playing Chaddius to pick it of...
Oh, it also messes up the demon res pool
Aughhhh
sinful island
Yo, im new to big DH and am really liking the deck. Xate recommended me this list, whats the difference between it and the one recommended at the top?
AAECAbaRBQKEsgSkkgUOgIUEtp8E1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAAA=
wheat stirrupBOT
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 3540
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1) Illidari Studies
# ⬜ 2x (1) Taste of Chaos
# 🟦 2x (1) Unleash Fel
# ⬜ 2x (2) Chaos Strike
# ⬜ 2x (2) Spectral Sight
# 🟦 1x (3) Crushclaw Enforcer
# 🟪 2x (3) Eye Beam
# ⬜ 2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
# 🟨 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
# 🟦 2x (4) Glaivetar
# 🟦 2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
# ⬜ 2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
# 🟦 2x (6) Felscale Evoker
# 🟦 2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
# 🟪 2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAea5AwKEsgSkkgUOgIUEtp8E1J8EtKAE7KAEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFpMMFsvUF4fgFAA==
# You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/5196704
the first list posted has predation and lady and treasure guards
that list focuses on crushclaw tutoring evoker. it also drops the colossal
both are good, despite the predation nerf
sinful island
that list focuses on crushclaw tutoring evoker. it also drops the colossal
yeah, i heard a few people saying that the colossal wasnt very good to pull?
also helps me cus im on a budget
is anyone here willing to watch my gameplay and help? im streaming rn
calm ledge
Bunny hopper had a long big DH stream about two weeks ago. I’d watch that to learn how to play it
sinful island
oh bet,
calm ledge
You can definitely play without Xhi but hurts the Paladin match up a lot though
sinful island
he streams on twitch?
sinful island
You can definitely play without Xhi but hurts the Paladin match up a lot though
ive faced 0 paladin the last 10 games
lucid grove
Xhi'lag is the one I'm most conflicted about tbh
I keep alternating between running it and not running it
lucid grove
yeah I just switched back to s'theno and my winrate turned positive again lol
I think crushclaw is probably just not fast enough for how passive it is
dropping spectral sight for chaos strike in general when you don't fit both in the deck does feel better tho
lucid grove
@sinful island you know what I've played with predation again after the nerf and I feel like ironically the nerf made it better for big dh
it being 2 mana now makes it a lot easier to use without the naga proc
like A LOT
sinful island
It used to be 3 mana deal 3?
lucid grove
yes
sinful island
Ah
sinful island
yeah I just switched back to s'theno and my winrate turned positive again lol
I can't afford stheno lol
sinful island
Hmm okay
lucid grove
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wheat stirrupBOT
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 6720
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1) Illidari Studies
# ⬜ 2x (1) Taste of Chaos
# 🟦 2x (1) Unleash Fel
# 🟨 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# ⬜ 2x (2) Chaos Strike
# 🟦 2x (2) Predation
# 🟨 1x (3) Lady S'theno
# ⬜ 2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
# ⬜ 2x (3) Treasure Guard
# 🟨 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
# 🟦 2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
# ⬜ 2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
# 🟦 2x (6) Felscale Evoker
# 🟨 1x (7) Xhilag of the Abyss
# 🟦 2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
# 🟪 2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAea5AwSXoAT7vwT+vwSkkgUNgIUEtp8E1J8Eh7cEmLoEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFsvUF4fgFAA==
# You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/5478665
my list right now
very close to the standard
you can replace xhi'lag+thalnos for 2 eye beams probably
but I have a soft spot for xhi'lag
I'll definitely try to replace them after the new 0 mana spell from the miniset comes
should pose a lot of synergy with this deck
are you gonna become a dh main?
ONE OF US
lucid grove
Any other decks you tried?
silk pelican
I can't afford stheno lol
def wouldn't recommend crafting her for any current dh deck
also miniset is about to come out so
crafting anything rn is sus
lucid grove
The only deck I think you can justify crafting her for is big dh and even then it's shaky
Like only if you're loving the deck and class and wanna main
lucid grove
Cuz crushclaw is just as effective and much cheaper
Imo if you could run treasure guard with crushclaw it would be over
Treasure guard is carrying the s'theno package
silk pelican
yeah without treasure guard i don't think the performance of the 2 versions would be comparable after the nerf to predation
cosmic zinc
yeah treasure guard is just lowkey good
i think kibler was running her in enrage warrior with good results
but i usually just like the consistently of enforcer in crusher package
lucid grove
I do enjoy the gameplay options that s'theno opens in this deck from an experience standpoint
It feels more alive and dynamic to me
But the performance is nothing special
At least in the grand scheme of things
I think I get better results with her for some reason
Treasure guard tho is just so damn good
5 health taunt that cycles
For just 3 mana
@cosmic zinc are you gonna slot the new 0 mana spell in once the miniset drops?
cosmic zinc
ill probbaly be busy with D4 but once im bored of that game ill probably test it out more
buoyant pagoda
Trying a stheno list with Souleater's Scythe in top 300 NA.
AAECAea5AwTbuQT7vwSVkgWkkgUNgIUE1J8EtKAEh7cEmLoEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFsvUF4fgFAAA=
wheat stirrupBOT
### Big Demon Hunter
# Cost: 8320
# 🟦 2x (0) Dispose of Evidence
# ⬜ 2x (1) Illidari Studies
# ⬜ 2x (1) Taste of Chaos
# 🟦 2x (1) Unleash Fel
# 🟦 2x (2) Predation
# ⬜ 2x (2) Spectral Sight
# 🟨 1x (3) Lady S'theno
# ⬜ 2x (3) Silvermoon Arcanist
# ⬜ 2x (3) Treasure Guard
# 🟨 1x (4) Felerin, the Forgotten
# 🟦 2x (4) Raging Felscreamer
# 🟨 1x (4) Souleater's Scythe
# ⬜ 2x (5) All Fel Breaks Loose
# 🟨 1x (5) Queen Azshara
# 🟦 2x (6) Felscale Evoker
# 🟦 2x (8) Illidari Inquisitor
# 🟪 2x (9) Brutal Annihilan
AAECAea5AwTbuQT7vwSVkgWkkgUNgIUE1J8EtKAEh7cEmLoEpeIE6e0Ei5IFkpIFnaQFkKUFsvUF4fgFAA==
# You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/5486508
if evoker is in a bouund soul, you're running 4x copies effectively
and if not, your mulligan rate for evoker increases dramatically since you wont get the 3 minions eaten
if demons end up in the soul, can open them and dispose them back
sinful island
if evoker is in a bouund soul, you're running 4x copies effectively
idgi?
buoyant pagoda
And I guess it can only bound one evoker?
yep only ever one
cosmic zinc
3 bound souls plus one free evoker
sinful island
how do the souls work?
buoyant pagoda
1 mana discover a minion bound
sinful island
also what's the azhara doing there lol
sinful island
1 mana discover a minion bound
ohhhh
i get it
when you draw the spell you discover into the evoker
buoyant pagoda
secondary win con - colossal on 6 is just as good as demon often
otherwise tidestone helps find more cards
and ring can duplicate AFBL
for greed matchup
unique crest
This sounds so strange
sacred sequoia
That sounds kinda goated ngl, kinda wanna try that
unique crest
Ok I tried a couple of games
Maybe it's because of early season but it's feeling good
buoyant pagoda
im thinking about swapping out felerin - tough crowd made the random pool a lot worse for the deck
unique crest
I still think it's a very good card
calm ledge
that's very interesting to play scythe in a non spell deck
I think I'd still probably prefer something over queen, but I can see the argument
cosmic zinc
Yeah it’s also adding 3 more spells to the deck
ill try cutting azshara for that 0 mana spell
calm ledge
wow I was pretty skeptical about scythe, but it actually feels pretty good
I think instead of queen I'd prefer astalor, it's a better late game discover from scythe
but nice work doing something really creative
unique crest
Doesn't the rush spell do things that the deck.. kinda already does?
I mean
The rush targets you have don't feel very good
Except the ones that already have rush
lucid grove
I really like using it on raging felscreamer turn
unique crest
Tbh Azshara doesn't feel bad at all
Even if every option other than the Horn seem a bit greedy
spice hemlock
wow I was pretty skeptical about scythe, but it actually feels pretty good
wait
how does scythe even make sense
dont you need demons in your deck for evoker to fetch?
buoyant pagoda
worst case you hit one annihilan and one inquisitor - usually you just hit other stuff like treasure guard anyways
so theres still demons in the deck,, which you're also less likely to draw out
and if you do, thats what dispose is for
spice hemlock
i guess i just dont get the benefit
it seems very inconsistent
like, you hope to hit evokers, but not demons
and then you have a 4-4/2 weapon in the deck
i mean, maybe, esp if worldeight says it feels better than it sounds
calm ledge
I’m not committing to the scythe build, but it worked better then I thought
sinful island
why do some decks not run abyssal depths? is it too costly on 3 mana or smth?
it seems quite good that you can grab arcanist if you dont have it
sinful island
Bunny hopper had a long big DH stream about two weeks ago. I’d watch that to lea...
thanks for the recommendation, his stream's very informative
lucid grove
I've been liking using the new spell with my old taunt list
It really patches up the slowness of not having s'theno to fight for board
You give rush and banana to the sentinel on curve
And it's a 3/6 with taunt
Oh yeah also great to chain with crushclaw
You use it on crushclaw to fight for board and it's already infusing the evoker you tutored
calm ledge
After playing a bit against spell DH, I think fel and flame can very valuable with lady
craggy gorge
I haven’t played any big dh this season but with all the variants of warrior running around it feels like a rough meta for it
unique crest
Yeah
I was about to ask if someone has some data about it