I believe they are still working on the new cloud system
#nms-modding
waxen cedar
lime mesa
one thing I did like about next was the increase in quality for continental land shapes when observing from space
thin valve
Why is everyone all going crazy over clouds
waxen cedar
like fixing the issues and stuff
thin valve
They're just aesthetic
scenic flare
It looks like my screen was cracked but it wasn’t. It was actually the first cloud layer
dreamy tulip
I recently fixed the pixelation on clouds, removed the blur, fixed the stretching into space. Improved the blending on the second cloud layer and repositioned it a bit
lime mesa
an aesthetic game already can use more aesthetics. that's why. it makes it look prettier, and less immersion breaking
thin valve
I think the clouds are fine smh
dreamy tulip
- shadows are sometimes not matching clouds
- shadows are not running the same direction as clouds !?
- shadows are casted at night !?
- shadows are even casted on asteroids !!? ~ Lo2k
which I'm still quite perturbed about
waxen cedar
@thin valve Is it fine to you to see clouds through your freighter walls?
dreamy tulip
Those are a few cloud issues
scenic flare
To be fair, they make stuff right and then when they have time, they can try to make graphics even more powerful
lime mesa
also space cloud textures are yucky yucky (though they got way better in next as they added a subtle drop shadow effect)
thin valve
I've only had that glitch once
lime mesa
I think
dreamy tulip
Apart from the fact that they move really fast, faster then their shadows, and the code is unfinished (the photomode function) is currently broken
thin valve
And it didn't really catch my attention
scenic flare
@thin valve once
waxen cedar
it happens every time when you are parked near planet with your freighter
lime mesa
the problem with the seeing clouds in freighters and anomalies glitch is that it happens every single time you spawn something near a planet
thin valve
That's strange
scenic flare
Return to space and tell me if you still can see it though the walls
dreamy tulip
The clouds also stretch into space currently, and they have a shimmering effect
lime mesa
^^
dreamy tulip
These issues can be improved and worked around by the end user
thin valve
Fast moving clouds makes sense on certain planets though
dreamy tulip
But hopefully, HG's will fix it
scenic flare
@waxen cedar especially when you park your ship in a space station or space anomaly
thin valve
High wind velocities on more dramatic worlds
dreamy tulip
I'm not saying that the ideas for the clouds aren't great
However, there's a specific way to approach it
If you're going to do it
scenic flare
@thin valve oh my gosh. Are you blind?
dreamy tulip
It should blend properly and be believable
scenic flare
Nobody is supposed to see cloud layer though a fat solid wall
dreamy tulip
I love the new clouds, but they could use work
thin valve
That's something I've just never noticed
dreamy tulip
And yes, the clouds in the trailer are of a higher quality, and different
waxen cedar
What happened to the system that controlled temperature based on your Y position on planets? Like if you climb on a mountain it would get colder etc.
dreamy tulip
But don't take this the wrong way, it doesn't bother me and I'm not disattisfied. However, it's just obvious haha
thin valve
I have to agree
lime mesa
someone said something like that
dreamy tulip
HelloGames will also likely fix it
thin valve
It's not really that bothersome
lime mesa
also the trailer in general is weird as hell
because they have four players in an atlas station, which you couldn't do in 1.5 at first
it took the update that added four landing pads
I love hg but i don't think they plan too well
thin valve
Didn't they also only just release more landing pads for the anomaly
scenic flare
@thin valve it is bothersome.
lime mesa
too many hexagons
lime mesa
yep
thin valve
Over half the rooms in that damn sphere are just the pads
Lmao
I want there to be more to explore in there
lime mesa
they improved their marketing but they still have the issue of... I don't even know how to explain it. like... not realizing stuff, I guess
I'm not even sure what the issue actually is
it's complicated, obviously
thin valve
Well definitely
I just wished they focus on some more dramatic stuff
Like proper planetary rotation ect
lime mesa
yess
thin valve
Different star types ect
thin valve
It's boring how there's only three types of stars in the game
scenic flare
Proper planetary rotation?
dreamy tulip
There used to be planetary rotation
lime mesa
yeah but then they took it out because of playtesters
dreamy tulip
Playtesters mentioned that they found it confusing
But yeah, they had physical rotation
lime mesa
if they made it a bit slower and really emphasized the icons for trading posts, bases, etc. things would be ok
thin valve
Yeah
dreamy tulip
thin valve
Also ring systems should be way more rare
lime mesa
yeah the rotation in that trailer is too fast
dreamy tulip
Planetary rotation here at 1 minute
thin valve
And gas giants pleaseeeeeeee
red pagoda
i found a cool planet i liked
dreamy tulip
There was also physical rotation demonstrated in another footage
thin valve
It would be cool if they did have rare fast spinning planets just to complicate things up
But overall planetary rotation being slow and realist would be best
dreamy tulip
I wonder if there are actual planets that do have faster rotational cycles... I would think so
thin valve
There are
There are lots
Infact planetary rotation cycles aren't fixed
If you time traveled back to hadean earth during the formation of the solar system
The day and night cycle was way quicker
The moon was also way way way closer to earth
It's infact the moon that helped us slow down our spin speed too
But not all planets would need to spin
dreamy tulip
I suppose seeing faster rotating planets on ocassion, could be curious
thin valve
It would be nice to live on a tidally locked moon
thin valve
Interesting
Although I will say one of the more problems with simulations is that procedural generation in itself is still too lacking to get everything on par
Every planet is different down to the micron
Even with procedure generation that can't be done
Ofcourse I don't mean it can't make every planet different
dreamy tulip
A masterpiece of a game, with nigh infinite potential - in which it's engine is utilizing like only 1% of it's potential for like 99% of things.
thin valve
But not to the way of how unique each system is
dreamy tulip
This is the reality of the matter, even with the glorious NEXT update.
There is less emphasis given to the aspect of exploration, and procedural generation
If you look at pre-release imagery, and also the leftover data for the environments you can see that there was a lot of stylistic and creative effort dispensed into each environment.
One pre-release environment (actually has a lot more going on) and more variety than every biome from every released build of No Man's Sky including NEXT combined.
At one point, HelloGames had an actual living, truly unique universe.
In old articles
Long story short, HelloGames (on several hard to find accounts) had spoken of a consistently unique universe (where no asset live in-game) would be identical; not even a single blade of grass. There is code for that in the files still, which is either unfinished or simply not used.
This mechanism was also used on non-proc model creatures (at-least during an era of testing)
There's remnants of that data left behind - But it's true. It is also possible to see that live via nms-view
Maybe we'll see it one day, but nonetheless the game is absolutely a masterpiece imo
This engine is capable of A LOT
Picture morphing an asset in Blender, but instead the game is doing it for you 'live' based upon advanced algorithms where assets are generated based upon bone structure
Rather than pre-set parts
thin valve
Even with procedural generation I still believe it's almost impossible to make every planet unidentical to one another in atleast the scale of worlds they have generated
Because it's only as good as the variables you put into that generation
And since we're dealing with 18 quintillion worlds
Even thousands of variables is almost nothing
dreamy tulip
Well, what I described above would certaintly accomplish that.
However, regarding what is here right now (there's so much) that can be done
It's exciting.
thin valve
What there needs to be is several million models
Then multiply that
For it's combinations
If you can get a number of combinations greater than 18 quintillion
dreamy tulip
That actually wouldn't be necesarry.
That mechanism eliminates most of the need for quantity, and it could be done all through a singular model.
dreamy tulip
When you see grass in a field, in-game
You are seeing the same model
in a dense fashion
The ideal solution wouldn't be to use a ton of different models
But to make each blade unique
As it would be in real-life
That mechanism, is capable of doing that
thin valve
Wouldn't you need different models to make each blade different?
dreamy tulip
Nope, because that mechanism would make each blade unique
instead of making each blade dense, but identical
It would morph (make each blade different) in a believable way
Based off of the algorithms in use, that are getting called
thin valve
How so
dreamy tulip
live in-game
thin valve
Like morph it's size?
It's color?
It's width?
Even playing around with those variables it doesn't give rise to much difference as you still can pinpoint the exact texture
dreamy tulip
It could morph it's width, scales, size, visuals, elongation, style, perhaps even call other textures, and animate it differently
Likely lots of other things
There used to also be NMS wiki info regarding effects of erosion and in-game evolution
The concept of the game used to be, that when you start off in-game, you would be at the outer edge of the galaxy (where things would look familiar)
But the further that you progressed to the center
The more alien things in-game would become
thin valve
I remember that
dreamy tulip
With the generation, and that planets would be affected by distance to the sun
yeah
There was a lot of maddening things in testing and going on back then, some of which, we are seeing being officially introduced
And imo, some things a lot more improved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPJWfrsU0g
However, there's a lot of reaaaallly interesting things (not found on the internet) - stuff that I've seen or tested with firsthand through datamining. I haven't talked about everything.
Kushimasho was said to b e affected by distance to the sun here
This is a fan project that I am still developing: https://justpaste.it/5c7xc
It will be the successor to all of my older work
The motto is quality over quantity. However, who says that we can't have both? I prefer quality with absolute consistency in quantity with limitless variety, and this is something that I am gradually developing.
The general rule is that every moment in-game whether it be on planet or off planet (must look like a unique style of a conceptual art - whether it be a fan art, a nms concept art, a sci-fi book cover, a pre-release trailer, pre-release imagery, painterly, other kinds of science fiction, nasa imagery, photography(random google images), or photography from outside of my house and in my travels).
Alongside being a multi-build hybrid of everything that's No Man's Sky, in-between (various beta No Man's Sky builds, off the record leaked pre-release footages, off the record screenshots, reveal 2013, E3 2014, 2015, early IGN 2016, and PS4 RC1 builds that we've never experienced firsthand), all known released builds... in-between (mid 2016, Foundation, PathFinder, AtlasRises, and NEXT), real-world planetary environments recreated in-game (based off of photography), extremely rare, but unique concept art based worlds (places you wouldn't expect to ever see) - Like Namek for example (lots more to come), various other environments by a few friends incorporated with permission such as: Shaidak's Generation, Better Worlds by TemplarGFX, alongside 20,000 fully procedural but unique; handcrafted biomes by yours truly - that have now been pushed to what is essentially infinite through my code.
I look at conceptual art, and I focus on painting those images into the game, live-in game... and then I focus on the environments. Sometimes that requires creating new assets or modling already existing assets into the fashion of what I see in those pictures, and then shaping environments in the style of that imagery.
Here is an example of a relication of atmospherics and skies from a concept art that I made live in-game in inspiration of a fan art:
https://i.imgur.com/fYm2c3J.jpg
https://imgur.com/uHoXjNl
Recently I started working on the visuals of Namek
Inspired by this conceptual art: https://i.imgur.com/0H2x63I.jpg
It took 11 hours, but I think that I got the skies fairly close... I still need to create the actual environment and model the terrain after the concept art
tepid imp
dreamy tulip
Still really early in development
dreamy tulip
I found that fan art on google somewhere
😃
Looking forward to (filling No Man's Sky) with things that people wouldn't ever expect to see
soft oasis
it looks really cool, good luck on the multiverse mod as well, seems a lot of work
dreamy tulip
The multi-verse will also be self creating
I'll explain more about that soon
Thanks...
Yeah, it's an overwhelming amount of work
But it's enjoyable
And a great learning process
This time I've decided to learn a new language and code the project
So, that when a new update hits.... I can click a button and it will recreate the project
And parse it with official content
soft oasis
yeah it sounds like it'll be good, i look forward to the release
ive tried learning code and stuff before but i just didnt have enough time and couldnt get into it
dreamy tulip
Ah nice
I had trouble at first, because I have a tendency to overthink and overcomplicate things
A few friends kindly helped me to get started
But once everything clicks
The rest of the process is usually straightforward
When I first started I had a lot of issues in my code and it was quite redundant. So, I decided to step back learn more about the basics of the language.... and make sure that what I had learned so far was burned into my mind.
And I ended up re-doing all the code in my source again, to make sure that it was clean
That was some time back, but now... things are really straightforward and it usually all clicks right away. Still lots to learn and no time for breaks.
It's a chicken and egg problem.
Spend time learning, or waste time trying to make it work.
lime mesa
wat
thin valve
I still dont understand how all of this can be coded without something along the lines of a super computer
Trying to create variables unique to every planet would require so much processing power
For every factor thats changed there still will pop up dozens of copies and parallels
dreamy tulip
That's actually not the case. There are numerous ways of executing unique rules.
The most ideal way, would be (what I described earlier) about that superformula related mechanism.
magic lava
This is all magic to me
dreamy tulip
However, it's not a necessesity in order to emulate that level of variety,
You have to understand how the game engine handles these things, in order to understand what can actually be done with it
There's actually no limit, to the amount of creative methods of executation (in regard to how environments can be made) with the current engine.
However, what I am working on is quite unorthodox to how the game does things and I'm excited about it.
dreamy tulip
The game is super unoptimized. The engine can function great.
thin valve
In pure mathematics that has some sense to it
lime mesa
and crashes
thin valve
But realistically that makes no sense
dreamy tulip
@lime mesa
dreamy tulip
The performance of the game is heavily dependant upon numerous factors going on within the files
If someone wanted to...
They could actually improve the performance of the game, without degrading quality
And actually gaining quality
It's about the method of executation, going on within the files
thin valve
Yes you can have an infinite amount of variables but most of them wouldnt make sense in terms of scale
For instance height
There are an infinite amount of heights
But too high or too low would be absolute nonsense in the setting you are using it for
There needs to be a specific mean one must keep something in
A planet with grass blades miles high wouldnt be very fun now would it
dreamy tulip
What you are talking about is in regard to generational styles.
The environments in No Man's Sky, in the base game are handcrafted, with procedural elemants.
However, it's not "entirely random", it's rule based.
thin valve
Im talking about the models
Yes they are hand crafted I know
Which is my point as to why they cant be unique
Because you can only make so many models
You give them rules and ect
But it would take years and years and years to have enough to millions of planet types
dreamy tulip
I'm talking about how the game currently handles the models that are getting called to load into the environemtns.
The size of grass getting called to load is dependant upon what rules are in place, within the individual object file, that is calling that grass model to get loaded.
There are a lot of different rules, in relation to the executation of how objects get called intot he game, into environments.
They can be drastically unique, and different from each other.
In-fact, you can have any amount of distinctively unique variations of this.
thin valve
Yes but when translated onto 18 quintillion environments even a million different types gets repetitive
Because the number 18 quintillion is huge
There will always be copies
dreamy tulip
With the mechanism that I described earlier, that would not be an issue.
lime mesa
and it will still get repetitive
dreamy tulip
As I said, it's not entirely asset dependant
It removes the need for quantity.
It would be like the real world
It's no longer just a 'handcrafted' thing
Re-pasting that for reference:
Long story short, HelloGames (on several hard to find accounts) had spoken of a consistently unique universe (where no asset live in-game) would be identical; not even a single blade of grass. There is code for that in the files still, which is either unfinished or simply not used. This mechanism was also used on non-proc model creatures (at-least during an era of testing)
Picture morphing an asset in Blender, but instead the game is doing it for you 'live' based upon advanced algorithms where assets are generated based upon bone structure
lime mesa
I'll believe it when I see it
dreamy tulip
What are you talking about?
HelloGames described this, it's what they were doing and there's data for it in the files
You can actually see it in action still
It's just unfinished
lime mesa
Maybe if you showed it
dreamy tulip
I'm merely talking about what they were talking about
lime mesa
HG talked about a lot of things
dreamy tulip
Do your own research
thin valve
This sounds like a type of machine learning thats still years from being refined
dreamy tulip
Iirc, it's been done before.
dreamy tulip
If you download NMS View by GregKWaste
You can search the biome object files
And you can see that there are some models, which still have remands of anim pose data
lime mesa
Hmmmm
dreamy tulip
And in those anim files, which are triggered by model scene entity files
There are bone structure rules
That all correlate together
And when animated, it morphs the asset. It's not an unknown thing
It just hasn't been officially pushed out to us
There are a lot of similar things
Like the terrain related superformula
There are around 9 terrain Superformulas right now, in the files that are still functional
Which can be used and activated
Like I said, do your own research, study it, learn how it works, then you will be able to make sense of it to a degree; instead of asking me to spoonfeed to you what you can either (look up on the web and read quotes by HelloGames or test with in the files firsthand yourself). @lime mesa
Datamining is about research, and it can be an interesting realm
dreamy tulip
Okay, I can show you an asset morphing with the unfinished code.
This is extremely unfinished, but this is a tree from the woodland biome by HelloGames which is morphing due to it's bone structure: https://gyazo.com/04e87447d0ccf32dcb2738a9ffeeb345
If executed more effectively, you could morph every attribute about it (on the fly)
The same with any other scene or model, even with creatures
verbal cairn
they probably had bigboi issues with it
thin valve
Yes but if you run that across 18 quintillion planets theres still going to be repeats....
Its 18 quntillion
dreamy tulip
Again, that depends upon the method of execution
hardy hatch
It looks like something they'd use for the varying size of flora on planets, though it's cute that it can do the little wiggle
dreamy tulip
It's unfinshed code
thin valve
The universe is 13.5 billion years old...... thats WAY less than 18 quintillion
dreamy tulip
With proper execution, you can have it interface with other assets, and change any attribute about it
You can even generate entirely unique trees on the fly
The picture is way larger here
hardy hatch
Hmm, I wonder why they left it in there
dreamy tulip
It's just difficult to paint
lime mesa
Which is probably how they got the trees to fall in the forest when that large animal charged through in one of the early trailers.
dreamy tulip
I have a hard time explaining these things
But, It's 100% feasible to have a truly unique universe
in-game
Even with 18 quintillion planets.
hardy hatch
It, hmm
hardy hatch
It'll be unique, but only on a pretty small scale
dreamy tulip
And by that I mean distinctively unique.
If you want it on a small scale? Yes.
However, that's where "method of execution" applies.
You can have every single attribute to generation, whether it be the smallest of detail to the largest of detail being distinctively unqiue.
Weather. Ecology. Terrain. All Flora.
Clouds.
Skies. Atmospherics.
There is no limit. The engine can handle all of that, and it once did.
dreamy tulip
It's more-so about utilizing the unused potential of the engine.
The game's current engine is only utilizing about 1% of it's potential for 99% of things.
Even with the functional (and progressional, gameplay friendly) content that is still here.
I could give some examples of that actually
thin valve
Probably because theres not enough processing power to handle that 100%
dreamy tulip
That's the typical speculation, but I'm going to have to disagree.
I could give a few examples why.
Not only do I don't believe that's the case...
Recent changes to the game's engine, actually prevent that from being a mandatory limitation
You see, if everything was getting loaded at once... that data would have to get stored in the memory
It used to be like that
However, HG's switched various things (that can get loaded) to dynamic lists
You can have any # of (algorithm based) assets able to get loaded on the fly, in which on the hardcoded side of things...
the executable can decide to load
In the past, the way that the biomes used to load (object files) for example was..
So, if you think back to Atlas Rises
There were two lush biomes.
One being "LUSHBIOME", the other being "LUSHHQBIOME"
They were slightly different
LUSHBIOME, was like a new style of the pathfinder lushbiome and LUSHHQBIOME was the lush biome that had the short grass....
I'm going to use "LUSHBIOME" as an example in this case
LUSHBIOME had 4 object files
Each object file is like a template (that calls different model assets with numerous amount of rules for how those assets being called can get distributed across environments)
The names of those 4 object files for "LUSHBIOME" on Atlas Rises were
LUSHOBJECTSFULL, LUSHOBJECTSMID, LUSHOBJECTSLOW, LUSHOBJECTSDEAD
Full represented (the one that had the most going on)
verbal cairn
can you write my EPQ
dreamy tulip
Mid less than full, low less than mid, dead less than low
However, here's the thing
The way that HelloGames used to handle biomes was...
The 4 slots were static. You could only have 4 object files per node which were assigned to "full, mid, low,and dead'
There are some problems with that.
One being: "You couldn't add to or take away from that list".
Say, you wanted to add another layer of objects to get spawned...
You'd have to add another NODE that had a full, mid, low and dead... static slot
But there's an issue with that.
You would then have two nodes getting loaded into the memory, which could become taxing and unstable.
And it would all spawn all at once
So, what HG's did was....
They uncapped the full, mid, low, and dead slots
And they turned it into a dynamic list
So, that you can have any # of unique object files to be able to get loaded per individual node
This saves memory, it saves a workload, it also provides opportunity for more expansion and (creative freedom)
You could have 1,000 or any # of unique object files able to get loaded through a singular node. (In which the executable chooses 1 filepath pointing to whichever object file to get loaded) at a time
However, the most ideal way to go about doing this... wouldn't be to manually create 1,000 object files
The most ideal way to go about it is, to study the game, and write intelligent, rule-based code and algorithms to populate these slots and have things auto parse (but also creatively work on ways) to ensure that every object file is distinctively unique.
You can have an infinite amount of generational styles, and also an infinite amount of objects
Going back to what I described earlier... about how the base game biomes are "handcrafted, but procedural.... " what I meant by that was...
Hellogames chose the assets to get loaded (per object file), and applied rules inside of those object files systematically, within different nodes
But each model that gets loaded is a procedural model, that has a certain amount of different parts
dreamy tulip
Continuing onto that
Whenever an object file loads, and that object file calls the procedural models that have procedural parts...
The executable decides (which parts to pick)
You could force it to pick specific parts, but that's only useful in specific scenarios, and could be used to have more of a restrained look.. but that's a lot to get into
However, (even in the game's current state) and how proc models have a pre-set amount of parts that the executable randomly chooses from...
You can actually manipulate that and expand (on the procedural assets that can get called for each individual model) and cross and mix assets
This is a new realm of something that I started to get into, it's pretty neat
But again, this is just a method of implementation involving a method of implementation inside a method of implementation inside several methods of Implementation
You can have layers and layers of intelligent rules
And actually directly affect the models in-game
And create new styles out of the game's current styles
It gets really complex
However, in relation to the base game... and a few examples of how many things are underused... (which I won't say is a concern for processing power due to the new dynamic style of loading of assets right now)...
For example, the vanilla biomes could simply be duplicated - just to add unique terrain rules
Since the release of the game - there were 4 unique cave biomes and 4 unique underwater biomes (but only one of them were used)
The lushobjects full, mid, and low (always used the medium proc tree)
Repeated like 4-5 times
When they could have used the small proc tree, or the large proc tree
The resource plants like thamium 9, zinc, etc... (that used to be around) had a few proc parts
However, there were 4-5 unique and additional resource plants renamed and idling
That had dozens of procedural parts and unique parts
These are simple things that could improve variety, while also maintaining consistency
It's also not any more taxing
Like say for example, you have 5-6 procedural rock models (and each model all has unique proc parts that can get selected)
And all 5-6 of those models happen to be believable to the environment
Instead of making use of the 6 separate procedural rock models that all have unique procedural parts
You make use of 1 of the procedural rock models (every single time) - resulting in less variety of assets being distributed
@supple wadi knows a lot about this
There's just a loooooooooot of things going on and factors
But this really applies to almost all aspects of the game
99% of things are underused. Now, I don't say that to be negative and I love No Man's Sky regardless of how it plays.
But what I am getting at is, that the game can be (and once was) so much more in numerous aspects but a lot of things are toned down.
Likely a game design choice, which is fine - but can the engine handle it? Absolutely, it's all a matter of someone taking the time to fully flesh things out and make sure that it works as intended.
There's a lot of maddening things (that once were) - many of which we've seen officially introduced. Everything? No, but maybe some day.
Also, @lime mesa - Yeah it's wiggling
But what that really is...
Is unfinished code (that is morphing an asset)
lime mesa
If you could get crooked trees
dreamy tulip
It wouldn't wiggle like that in-game
dreamy tulip
It's unfinished, but it only does what you tell it do
It functions based off of the rules in the file that's getting loaded
If someone knows how to work it...
They can expand
Trees also used to be animated
If you look in the very first trailer
thin valve
I still dont understand the no copies thing
dreamy tulip
I understand that I wrote a book. (Like, I've been hesitating to jump into this rabbit hole) Haha
But it's literally like 0.1% of all that is going on here
It's just really complex
But in short, one thing that I mentioned was....
"You can have layers and layers of intelligent rules
And actually directly affect the models in-game
And create new styles out of the game's current styles in a procedural fashion
It gets really complex"
You can literally make every tree consistently unique right now
Across 18 quintillion planets
With what is here
But it's a rabbit hole
And what I do for a living is, I datamine, research and make use of theory and realize it in-game
And this is what I am about
So, in-time... the work will speak for itself... but I am inspired by HelloGames and I love seeing and researching things that they've previously tampered with
But I'm afraid that mechanism that I described, would need to be officially re-incorporated
If that turns out to be different, I'll speak of it if I get that working
Even though I don't need it
lime mesa
When you say you do 'datamining for a living' how do you mean? Is someone paying you to do this?
dreamy tulip
I should rephrase that sorry. What I meant was, 'as a living'. I do not get paid to do this. It's purely fan work. 😃
lime mesa
Alright thanks for clarifying.
supple wadi
Yeah, the thing some people seem to forget with NMS is that adding a ton more to possibly load in as you approach an environment isn't taxing if the relevant assets are built in such a way to not be taxing to render. Some forget that procedural doesn't mean random, though the terms are at times used interchangeably.
No Man's Sky is written so that it's carefully selecting from pools of assets, curated by Hello Games, to distribute across landscapes (when thinking strictly about planets) and that these pools are not having to pick out from one big pool & process out the irrelevant assets. If the game had to run through all the available assets and only choose those tagged for the relevant biomes each time, that would be frustratingly taxing, probably.
But Hello Games is smart enough to know that that would be incredibly silly to do. So instead they have specific pools of assets for each biome, and some of these assets in themselves then generate from the set of parts within their file into what you eventually see in the game itself. Sometimes this is a trunk & branches & leaves, other times this is simply a selection of the asset itself, such as a certain rock or bush or something.
dreamy tulip
Nicely written
cyan oracle
hearty wasp
lookin good
river olive
what's the best mod for draw distance?
dreamy tulip
@river olive Hi, my fan project is still in development. However, it will include what I've named 'Seamless Generation'. A near seamless universe, without the illusion of no need for fading. There will also be no pop in. Everything shall seem as if it was always there, and always will be there.
river olive
well good luck with that and hopefully it goes well
i find the main issue with this game aesthetically is how close everything appears into the world
when im able to run the game 1080p maxed out at over 144fps then i want some way to utalize that headroom and this seems like a good way to go as imo its a shortcoming of the game
dreamy tulip
Cheers.
If you'd like to see an example.... here is a pre-NEXT video from Atlas Rises where the seamless generation aspect to an older version of my (in development) fan project was in use.
https://youtu.be/9mQBh61_8uE
In this (outdated video), you can see that there isn't anything generating/fading in near the player.
river olive
id go 4k but i dont have 2 grand to spend on a monitor
that's a remarkably earth like planet. wow
but on the topic of the mod, looks pretty solid, my main issue with the draw distance is how apparent it is when youre melee boosting or otherwise moving at a higher altitude or speed than the game seems to think you should be
imagine if nvidia hairworks was applied to grass
dreamy tulip
Oh yes, that's an older variant of an E3 planet replication that I was working on. Pre-release, there were a few Alpine variations that HelloGames had. What I've resolved to do, is first (replicate the actual pre-release imagery) - and then through my code, create an essentially infinite amount of distinctively unique variations of that E3 planet (with different styles) - but all following similarities of the style of those different stylish screenshots by HelloGames. This video, was before I started coding my fan work... so, this was just a variant that I made by hand.
Here is a pre-release image: https://i.imgur.com/7lN8rKn.jpg
And another: https://imgur.com/YSdfcOv
^ Environments that look exactly like this are possible. However, you can see that these are two different variants (styles of an alpine environment) by HelloGames
Regarding what you descrbed about melee booting, or moving at a higher altitude or speed.... I've actually worked something within the engine, that (makes that pretty much seamless too)
Everything generates all at once, quick enough (to not appear as if it's popping in), but seamlessly fast - yet it really only needs to once... and you can go explore.
river olive
sounds good to me
dreamy tulip
Sharing this for the sake of sharing it. The first video was my early Atlas Rises earth like 'Alpine' environment work. This video is my early Alpine environment work with NEXT:
https://youtu.be/M21rO1FH50E
I eventually scrapped all the code for this (that produced what was used in this outdated video above), and re-started from scratch... and I'm liking (how much better it's looking when outputted from my new program) - which I've yet to record. As you can see, in the video... a lot of the trees are the same. Well, that won't be the same now. There will be layers, and layers, and layers, of depth and different kinds of believable environments that will blend into environments.
Will be getting around to the non-alpine, environments soon. I'm using the alpine-ish work that I have as a template (for getting specifc things situated) - before I move onto the other kinds of environments. There will be places that you would never expect to see.
river olive
that sounds like an environmental overhaul
dreamy tulip
It will be an entire game overhaul, a multi-build hybrid of every data-mined unreleased, and released version of No Man's Sky (including a series of numerous, mysterious pre-release builds and the PS4 RC1 build ported to PC)... alongside an essentially INFINITE amount of stylish, rule-based/algorithmic biomes modernized for NEXT; without losing any NEXT content (that will still be out there). This will not take away from the vanilla experience, but build ontop of it. This is all about expanding the current game, without straying away from the current game. I desire everything to feel like a natural part of the game, with some exceptions.
Every moment in-game (on planet, or off planet) will follow the styles of concept arts, fan arts, sci-fi book covers, real life locations, NASA imagery, a series of mysterious but revitalized/modernized pre-release builds that are all unique, painterly, and stylish in their own distinctive ways - in-between (various beta No Man's Sky builds, off the record leaked pre-release footages, off the record screenshots, reveal 2013, E3 2014, 2015, early IGN 2016, and PS4 RC1 builds that we've never experienced firsthand), all known released builds... in-between (mid 2016, Foundation, PathFinder, AtlasRises, and NEXT), and real-world planetary environments recreated in-game (based off of photography). Everything will be revitalized, polished to make sure that it fits a professional standard.
There will be extremely rare, but unique concept art based worlds (places you wouldn't expect to ever see) - I started working on Namek for example (lots more to come), various other environments by a few friends incorporated with permission such as: Shaidak's Generation (pre-NEXT and NEXT version), Better Worlds by TemplarGFX, alongside 20,000 fully procedural but unique; handcrafted biomes, that have now been pushed to what is essentially infinite through my code (and are dynamic).
Extracted from here: https://justpaste.it/5c7xc
The motto is quality over quantity. However, what is being worked towards here is quality in quantity with absolute consistency (In consistently unique artistic styles).
When you fly down to an Alpine environment, you may get the vibes of painterly crossed with realism.
Another alpine environment, may look super painterly, but also alienish (every alpine evironment will be unique)
But the next planet you land on, you won't know what to expect. For all we know, it could be a sand planet: https://imgur.com/1TgCOqL
Or an alienish bioluminescant dried up ocean: https://i.imgur.com/7DVNSmp.png
verbal cairn
o
hallow pumice
2 pretty 4 me
lime mesa
what mods do you reccomend
I'm getting the Atlas colors mod, but what else should I get
Also a mod for diverse biomes
will those two affect each other
dreamy tulip
Thanks, @hallow pumice.
hushed bronze
@dreamy tulip Maybe I'm being paranoid but I feel like maybe you shouldn't openly admit to datamining unreleased builds of NMS. Just doesn't seem wise to me.
dreamy tulip
@hushed bronze No worries. I don't have access to (unreleased No Man's Sky builds) - I datamine and research what was going on in unreleased builds and re-model the game after it.
hushed bronze
Its cool that you go and prove that infinite diversity is entirely possible with NMS. Seems every time I gripe about the ridiculously limited variation in-game and bring up the fact that the NMS engine is a virtually-unrivalled proc-gen monster that should be capable of immense variety, someone has to go and insist that it isn't true.
For the time being I have a handful of mods that effectively bandage that issue, but yours seems to be on an entirely different level
dreamy tulip
HelloGames engine has near infinite potential.
The quality of environments is relevant to the amount of passion that you possess, and effort that you're willing to pour into it.
You can either do a low effort job and throw a bunch of random stuff seneslessly into the mix
Or you can paint your wildest dreams into the game, creatively
It also requires an in-depth understanding of how the engine works, and how to use it.
Within the past 18,000 hours (of doing manual) work - I've come to a point where I can mold the game's environmets after conceptual art through complex layers of rules with consistency.
If you use rules, in a systematic fashion - you can prevent wonkiness. You can have things in such a way, where you never know what to expect - but due to the nature of your created rules.... you can expect to not see what you don't want to see.
It's all about your method, or methods of execution.
And willingness to refine your work
A person and I in my Discord server were having a similar conversation. Thought I'd share that.
hushed bronze
My main dissappointment is that you are personally doing a lot of things the 15-man team at HG should have already done. Whose madness thought that four lush biome color schemes was acceptable in a game like this?
dreamy tulip
I respect the dev's game design choices, however I'm very happy that they support (and actually have opened the door wider intentionally) for mod authors and developers to build upon this awesome game (which does have so much potential) and is capable of actually pulling it off.
hushed bronze
Have you considered the possibility of applying with HG? I heard they were hiring. (I have no idea what they offer for pay and what you already make or anything else though)
dreamy tulip
I'm sure that they have reason behind their approach with things as well
lime mesa
well you've got to factor in that HG probably is focusing more on specific gameplay aspects rather than the exploration branch of the game (ex. exocraft, frigates, freighters, etc.) I think they've just shifted away from the main pipeline behind what no man's sky is about (purposely or unintentionally, though probably the latter)
hushed bronze
Im not personally a fan of assuming people have good reasons. A lot of the characteristics of current NMS seems to me that a lot of the devs are checked out and getting hasty/careless. A lot of "taking the easy way out"
dreamy tulip
Something @supple wadi and I were talking about.
This was what I said:
I legit don't care too much about many of the new things. Now, I like 'having them' because new content still adds to the experience... but most of this stuff man.... I see as just 'toppings' that really should've gon ontop of an already beautiful cake (a masterpiece of a game, with nigh infinite potential - in which it's engine is utilizing like only 1% of it's potential for like 99% of things).
I would like to see less toys, and more well thought out changes
But nonetheless, I'm having a blast and am excited to see what's coming
lime mesa
how do you know it's only 1%
hushed bronze
Just to clarify though, I've played over 1,000 hours at this point so there's really no questioning whether I like the game 😃
@lime mesa You're picking at an on-the-fly phrase there dude
lime mesa
also I'm totally on board with them making modifications to exocraft because they're not that useful to be honest
what do you mean? i'm just wondering why he thinks it's 1%. not calling what he says wrong lol
dreamy tulip
"like only 1%". It's a rough estimate. GregKWaste also talked about this on his blog awhile back. Virtually, everything with this game is underused (in relation to what the engine is capable of). When you spend time studying the files, testing, doing research and theory... you'll begin to notice more and more how much of a reality that is.
supple wadi
It's very much not an exact figure, just a way to get the idea across that they could do much, much more with the systems they have in play.
dreamy tulip
Which also provides opportunity to work with the game, thankfully HelloGames we can (without too much of a hassle).
However, I do love the vanilla base game
I also play on my PS4
But, I see so much potential in this game, in-fact (we've already seen a lot of that potential fleshed out) in pre-release footages and imagery.
However, I'm sure that a lot of that was stuff in testing, but - we have been gradually seeing (many things that once were in old footages) being re-introduced, but in a new style (and many things much for the better).
Certaintly not everythng, but it's exciting to see what's yet to come.
lime mesa
you mean like crashed freighters? yeah I bet they were just visual flair back in the earlier builds
dreamy tulip
Crashed ships and freighters are a fragment ontop of the tip of the iceburg of maddening things.
This is a rabbit hole, that I prefer not to jump into.
lime mesa
didn't they also say multiplayer was like that too? not that deep and that's why they didn't have it as a focus? seems like they removed a lot of the content because none of it made sense to the player and just had to be worked on more
though I kind of disagree with them removing the sandworms and rotation, but other than that I can see why they got rid of the rest
dreamy tulip
I'll say this though. There is SO MUCH going on all at once, like an explosion of mechanics and content in old footages... that you can watch the trailers (hundreds and hundreds and hundreds) of times... and consistently find things that you never noticed.
Many things, are not in trailers. But in leaked footages. Many things not in either, but around the web in hard to find imagery. Many things not on the web at all, but must be either found through datamining the executable, or by searching the files and using logical deduction and through hours of testing and making sense of how things worked.
Some things in what is now deleted wikipedia information.
I find it inspiring, mysterious, and exciting.
Because I love researching and realizing what I can in-game.
rotund yoke
all these overhauls are looking great, how much gpu fps will be affected?
dreamy tulip
Former versions of my fan project were said to run better than the vanilla base game, w/o quality reduction on low/mid end rigs.
However, I cannot promise that. I do have a high end rig, and I can say that I am currently getting a drastic performance increase over the vanilla game on NEXT. I have a lot of re-worked shaders though.
I did hear this a lot though.
waxen cedar
I wonder if it's possible to create custom animations for characters like custom emotes/gestures?
Are there some modding tools for that or does it have to be done by HG
dreamy tulip
There is a tool called NMSDK, which stands for No Man's Sky development kit (a tool for 3D modeling in blender and it can handle custom animations - not sure how limited it is though).
But in regard to custom creatures with custom anims, I don't think that's feasible yet.
Someone else who uses blender frequently might know for sure though.
@cyan oracle might
waxen cedar
also I recall seeing that player model turns into ragdoll when killed
cyan oracle
monkeyman just said in the other channel, current state of NMSDK does not support anims
dreamy tulip
Okay, I see
cyan oracle
also I have never set up anims in blender and successfully exported them to game.. but Nadalee used to..
waxen cedar
Since there is now a size changer for your character, would it be possible to modify the size values to make your character bigger than a planet or atleast as big as a tree
I know little to nothing about modding so that's why I'm asking these dumb questions xD
cyan oracle
there's a size changer? as in we can change the size of our characters?
lime mesa
didn't sean say we'd be able to see differences in our character size by a perspective shift in regards to your height
what happened to that?
cyan oracle
damn, I was already worried enough whether a non-gek could fit in some parts of my base built as a gek.. I don't even want to imagine throwing custom player sizes into that thought..
lime mesa
I think that was right before launch of next too
so weird
or maybe I imagined that. I think I remember something like that though
actually yeah I think I imagined that one
hearty wasp
@waxen cedar there's a scale value in the character customisation section of your save
marsh wyvern
Sucks you cant have mods on Xbox
frosty vine
Sucks indeed
lime mesa
when the game is terribly optimized the mods would make it worse on console
steel crypt
?
magic lava
Runs smooooth on the 1x
lime mesa
I know
charred isle
Thamks
dreamy tulip
If you know what you are doing, you can make changes (modifications) to different aspects of the game w/o quality reduction and obtain improved performance.
Although, there are issues with the game in itself, much of the performance issues are due to the way that things are configured internally and the result of various methods of execution
Console builds actually already have been demonstrated to be capable of having better performance than what PC users have gotten (on all released) builds in footages/trailers of unreleased builds that were specifically used on console, and said to be used on console for the recordings. However, I'm sure that HelloGames is working to balance things out with the game in it's current state.
The issue with NMS isn't necesarilly the platform (despite the differences in hardware). The game and it's engine is more than capable of running flawlessly with great performance. It's more-so, about the way that things are set up internally... which the end user on consoles (typically don't have access to).
Surely, there are various other micro-factors involved. Improving overall performance would require making changes to various aspects of the game, more than most people would be willing to take on the tedious task of doing. Some things, could require hardcoded modifiying (which is also possible to do).
One thing that can be really taxing are the glsl shaders (depending on how they are coded). Well, in the same way... the vanilla shaders could also be re-worked (to look subjectively prettier, but to objectively perform better).
exotic axle
is it possable to have a m,od that shows you what mats you are using and by how much
marsh wyvern
It runs ok on the one s just starts bogging when you start building a base
hushed bronze
There is 110% definitely a Master Shaman Monkey in that cluster of trees somewhere
lime mesa
I think the reason why the console builds are stable is because all PS4's use the same hardware and all xboxs and blah blah blah all use the same hardware. Unlike PC's which have diversity. Nothing to do with the engine.
Arkham Knight had the same problem
Ran like shit on PC's
But was smooth for consoles
hearty wasp
so you mean
horribly optimised
being horribly optimised has everything to do with the engine and the dev's incompetence / lack of time or responsibility to do it
lime mesa
Does anybody have any experience with xml-style comments in exml and recompiling that to mbin format? Does that cause problems in the game?
supple wadi
If memory serves MBINCompiler typically just throws them out upon recompiling the exmls
So in other words, nah, doesn't usually create issues so far as I've read/seen
lime mesa
I just tried and you are right. Thx!
dreamy tulip
Consoles having identical hardware would certaintly eliminate a lot of different factors to watch out for (in regard to potential issues with stability) contrary to PC where users have different rigs. However, that's not 'the reason'. The PC build of No Man's Sky was used within the infinite worlds trailer and it seemingly ran great performance wise. Different released builds of No Man's Sky performed differently from each other, but a huge part of that is because they all have different internal methods of execution going on within the files. Atlas Rises ran better on my high end rig than the base NEXT build does, and it's not because there's a lot of new stuff added... it's the way that it is implemented and after various changes (imo for the better) to different core aspects of the game... I am getting better than vanilla performance on my high end rig.
When working with this game, if you're not careful and do things in a particular way, it can really jack up performance.... it just takes time (to flesh things out) in a way that produces optimal quality while sustatining optimal performance - and the game currently lacks a balance in that
supple wadi
a lot of which probably stems from them so often shuffling different, large portions of the game about with updates
obsidian tree
@lime mesa we are (slowly) working on a system that should hopefully allow comments to be preserved in mbin files. We have some groundwork laid out for it, but it still requires a bit of work 😃
lime mesa
@obsidian tree thanks,that's good to know. I'm now using mod stations feature to include the exml in the pak. That works pretty good too.
hearty wasp
it's good until you get to >500 exmls
then the game reads em for some reason and crashes the game lol
hearty wasp
I ain't sure if I should release the shield projector in its unfinished state without the working bubble
hearty wasp
Eucli-ea 1.8.4a brings the Bubble Shield Defense Multiplexer (B.D.S.M.) to your base, protecting even the outdoors from environmental hazards
https://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/mods/367
https://nomansskymods.com/mods/eucli-ea-more-buildable-decorations-next-edition/
!pin 496762725096095774
hearty wasp
!unpin 490166854606913536
hardy auroraBOT
@hearty wasp OK.
latent trout
Some my own mods. Tweaks to clouds, creatures, flight and gameplay. Pick and choose what you want. https://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/mods/884?tab=files
hearty wasp
Would be nice to know how you got trading in space working over at the modding discord
obsidian tree
looks like they modified a few globals:
GCAISPACESHIPGLOBALS.GLOBAL (Trader Hailing, Atmo Effects, Custom Marker, Terrain Manip)
GCGAMEPLAYGLOBALS.GLOBAL (Trader Hailing, Atmo Effects, Custom Marker, Terrain Manip)
GCTERRAINGLOBALS.GLOBAL (Trader Hailing, Atmo Effects, Custom Marker, Terrain Manip)```@hearty wasp Was pretty simple. In the GCAISHIPGLOBALS their is a line for enabling and disabling trader hailing. Just a quick turn on and boom. Surprised I hadn't seen one earlier that activated it. I understand it can get annoying to get the communication pop up each time you pass a trader but honestly I've found it doesn't happen to me all that much. It's cool though because you will go into a follow type pattern and just make the trade.
hearty wasp
huh, did it got added in this exp or just another pas HG scraped idea? lol
lime mesa
Trading in space? huh
latent trout
@hearty wasp It's been there since the launce of NEXT. Don't really know why it wasn't activated. I've had it on for a while and then I decided to share my mods.
@lime mesa Yes sir. When approaching a trader ship, either in flight on planet surfaces of in space, a communication hail will pop up. If you hail them you will enter into a follow pattern and you can then sell or buy items from them. They also tend to have more items to purchase then when you find ships on stations or outposts.
lime mesa
oh wow
I wonder why it's not yet been officially activated.
Seems an extremely useful feature.
latent trout
It is unusual. I haven't had any issues with it so far so it seems like it's working pretty well. Who knows though, maybe there is something that I haven't encountered yet. Same with creature chatter. That one, maybe because it can be annoying to some, is turned off as well. I have it activated in my creatures mods and so when there are a bunch around they just start making calls to each other. I also enable sleeping for creatures. While I am not sure if it's working properly, I have noticed instances where the creature stops moving and appears to just sit their, so perhaps that's the sleep mode and there is no real sleeping animation. Will keep looking into that one.
hearty wasp
If they haven't turned it to true it's probably just because they think it'd be too annoying to justify the gainz
latent trout
That's what I was thinking as well
lime mesa
Would be awesome to stumble upon a sleepin creature
I was excited when I saw the predators actually stop to 'eat' their kill
and i swear ive seen animals stop to scratch their neck
and then there was that one time I saw a giant boar humping a bush
but that was just a glitch
waxen cedar
could someone tell me where to locate the file for player values?
hearty wasp
what player values
charred isle
That's gamers right?
hearty wasp
ye
lime mesa
Wow
yeah it sounds really cool
even the screenshots
👌🏽
can't wait @thin viper lets hope no one copies it
hearty wasp
search for the body parts you have on your current save, VYK_, GEK_, AST_ and stuff might work
I forgot the exact fields lmao
@waxen cedar
charred isle
The comments on that post are gross tbh
hearty wasp
comments on the main subreddit being gross? why, I am so surprised.
lime mesa
reddit comments are all gross
charred isle
Yes
lime mesa
except r/zoomies
charred isle
tru
lime mesa
Oof
charred isle
worse?
unreal rapids
no better
hearty wasp
the mods subreddit is just mod request post these days
lime mesa
Sounds like hello should just hire that guy and earn it back after the next update
hearty wasp
boring and irritating
unreal rapids
look at the post and try to tell what i meant https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyMods/comments/96h04c/introducing_project_atlas_your_very_own/
charred isle
Those are the comments I'm talking about Donald lol
People shitting on HG becaues someone made a mod 😩
So cool
unreal rapids
the shadow of launch has never left us
lime mesa
yes
hearty wasp
at least people ain't shitting on gamer
hearty wasp
not kink-shaming, btw you do you gamer 
charred isle
But neither of them deserve to be shit on
charred isle
hold him at gunpoint
lime mesa
just look at this @charred isle this looks really cool
charred isle
Wonder how it handles the asteroids near that planet
Would be neat if they were floating around haha
lime mesa
@charred isle Just look here https://imgur.com/a/qzEnRUw
Some parts don't look good but hot damn most of the pics are 
lime mesa
I know why I play and mod this game. I also know why others don't. But we can all have our own opinions about that.
thin valve
Ohhhhhh that looks hype worthy though
I'm loving all those screenshots
I like how it incorporates random qualities of other planets into to one another
That's really all a good generator mod needs
The game has plenty of models already
Just not mixed
One really just needs to simply mix em all up
Randomly even works well too
I wanted no man's sky for realism but that's not going to happen
lime mesa
Yeah I can't wait for it
I love the asteroids
Look so amazing
Also diverse environments mod is based of the atlas generator
Which is pretty cool
verbal cairn
whoa
crimson crypt
What are some good mods that won't break my game
soft coral
most of time mods don't break your game, and you can reset it just by putting the DISABLEMODS.txt inside PCBANKS back
although it's highly recommended for you to use a separated save because incompatibilities with your current save
crimson crypt
What are some good mods then. I have a few but I'm looking to add on
No cheat mods though
crimson crypt
I can't remember the names but they are environmental mods and some graphical
soft coral
yeah... Diverse Enviroments
crimson crypt
Yeah that's it
soft coral
crimson crypt
And I have the one that makes the plants and animals bigger
soft coral
crimson crypt
Have that one too
soft coral
crimson crypt
That one looks interesting. I'll get it
soft coral
soft coral
crimson crypt
I need that one too haha
soft coral
and this one https://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/mods/803
crimson crypt
Many very good mods. I need to download these
soft coral
😉
soft coral
like?
crimson crypt
Anycin general. Maybe inventory sorting or anything like that?
cyan oracle
anyone any good with proc files and descriptors? Every time I add a new ship to my list, ships piggy back on one another..
heavy merlin
What does your file look like?
cyan oracle
atm, constantly changing lol
steel crypt
I mean why different ships when you can have them all....
cyan oracle
it's something to do with the proc file setup cause it's adding the millennium falcon to each selection.. if it selects the HG-X, it adds the MF.. if it selects the Nighthawk, it adds the MF.. if it selects the MF, it's just the MF once.. not twice..
it's two.. two ships in one..
steel crypt
what is special about the falcon section that is different from the others?
cyan oracle
it's the only one not using a duplicated and modified vanilla scene to piggy back landing gear from..
so I even set up an intermediate reference file like the other three ships have for their landing gears.. >.>
persistence I think is going to be the answer..
heavy merlin
Are they all spawning at the same time?
steel crypt
Just whatever + falcon right?
cyan oracle
not all.. just the selected proc ship + the falcon
if the selected proc ship IS the falcon, then it doesn't add a second..
so it's like it's processing the first four as a choice but last one is forced..
heavy merlin
🤔
If you put a different scene there instead of the falcon one, what happens?
I guess another thing to check is whether decompiling your mbin gives you back the right exml
steel crypt
right, I can't see why.....what is the chance variable for specifically?
heavy merlin
Nothing
steel crypt
@heavy merlin I was wondering that too like a compiling issue.
cyan oracle
looks like I've got the proc scene set right
they're all set to chance 0.. so they all have equal chance of being selected
steel crypt
Yeah, I mean that's what I assumed, I'm just looking for something weird. If you change places in the list with another one, do you get the same results?
Like is it picking the last one in the list, or the falcon specifically?
As the forced one...
heavy merlin
Yeah, that's what my idea before was to check. May be something odd about the falcon.
cyan oracle
essentially now nothing different and still having same effects.. I moved the locators that are in the custom landing gear scenes and put them in the MFREF scene.. so they're the same method of implementation and everything, but still the falcon is forced.. and yea, I already bumped the Falcon from the bottom of the list to the top and it's still forced to all but itself..
if I remove just the falcon nodes, everything goes back to the way it was before I started.. each of the 4 ships spawn by themselves..
steel crypt
Hmmm now you might have already gone over my head....sad right?
cyan oracle
wait.. I might see something.. IDK.. 🤞
steel crypt
I mean I understand where you are saying the falcon is the issue.
obsidian tree
I'm not entirely sure the descriptor is right
did you write it manually or use proc-gen.py?
cyan oracle
manually
steel crypt
Oh Oh
heavy merlin
Looks fine to me
cyan oracle
nope.. no luck.. 😦
heavy merlin
Falcon itself presumably doesn't have a procgen file?
cyan oracle
and to compare with the last ship I added and had everything working fine:
and JIC I made any updates I can't remember... here's the current proc scene..
hushed bronze
Somebody promised this wouldnt happen anymore
heavy merlin
I guess another thing to check is whether decompiling your mbin gives you back the right exml did you try that?
cyan oracle
yea
I think.. IDK what you mean exactly.. I mean I read my exmls myself, I don't have scripts doing my work.. so they do check out while I'm working on them.. and they're still the same after recompile/redecompile..
steel crypt
What version of NMS are you modding? Is that format current?
heavy merlin
Maybe try removing almost everything from the falcon scene, see if that makes any difference?
cyan oracle
yes, current public release..
steel crypt
Just release it like that and say "every ship comes with a free millennium falcon"?
cyan oracle
lmao
steel crypt
I can't see an issue yet?
cyan oracle
it's the elvaan magic this game runs on working against me
steel crypt
I am not familiar with this specifically though.
I mean at that point, I would do like Moo is saying and start minimizing it/replacing parts with vanilla/etc.
obsidian tree
well proc-gen.py should produce descriptors that are properly compatible with the game. The only issue it has currently is that it doesn't produce a proper empty geometry file, so you'd need to change that, but shooter had been using it to good effect with constructs
heavy merlin
There's no difference between the falcon part and the parts for the other bits that don't have a problem, in the main descriptor at least, so hmm.
cyan oracle
fighter_proc.geometry.mbin.pc is an empty geometry file.. so I just point to that if I need an empty geometry reference
obsidian tree
ok cool
cyan oracle
yea, I haven't found anything in the last 2~3 hours Moo..
obsidian tree
the reason I say the descriptor looks weird is that it doesn't look like it describes the scene properly
although it is a little while since I have done descriptors, so maybe I misremember
cyan oracle
it doesn't.. it just has a singular category with the options inside it
it's the same way I set up the proc files for 8 ships each proc scene back in Atlas..
but NEXT is not Atlas... 😠
obsidian tree
actually, if you want, you can use nmsdk to generate descriptors too
heavy merlin
I think it must be something specific to the falcon, if moving that to a different position in the list doesn't make it force a different ship.
obsidian tree
you can put the locators and ref's in then set the scene as proc-gen and give a few names and it will make that scene and descriptor for you 😃
cyan oracle
only reason I didn't use NMSDK is because each ship's scene file has edits and I figured it'd be a big file to extract.. the Falcon alone has 150k triangles
obsidian tree
you don't need to have every scene in one
cyan oracle
ah, so I don't need the models, just the ref..
cyan oracle
😉 I'll give that a go.. thank you
obsidian tree
again, I think shooter has done that, and maybe a few others
no worries
give the docs a read about making proc-gen scenes
it's pretty simple but there are one or two things to remember
wrt naming
but it should be pretty robust, and you can make far more complex hierarchies that if you were trying to do it manually 😛
cyan oracle
I'm gunna try to rebuild the scene and descriptor once more while I'm in my porcelain office.. do some of my best problem solving there.. 🤣
obsidian tree
(it does full proc scenes, not what proc-gen does)
graceful pilot
I was just thinking, has anyone tried to pull out the suit audio files out for use as a ringtone or message notification sound?
hearty wasp
pullout, probably, use as ringtone, maybe not
hushed bronze
@graceful pilot I think most people would throw their phone through the wall but it could be a decent idea if done carefully
Like using "Incoming Firestorm" as the ringtone for your mother in law
Battery warning easily "life support low"
And install a plice radar app to use "Sentinels incoming" when you kill someone in the streets and the cops are coming
"Extreme night temeratures detected" for your hot girlfriend or fuckbuddy who calls when its getting late
Since its also used for cold temps, use it with that hot girlfreind when she breaks up with you too
toxic goblet
You have too much time on your hands
cyan oracle
@obsidian tree so the file I recreated manually was different than I initially began with, but the added ship was still persistent.. I tried exporting with a scene set up in Blender with several reference nodes, one for each ship, and I get the same exact results I've been dealing with. 😦
also the scene NMSDK made was identical to the one I composed on my revisit..
hearty wasp
Lol I would never use those ringtones cos I have no gf
cyan oracle
yay! Happyness!
made another intermediary scene file like the landing gear scene files referencing the vanilla ships.. I think the only thing from making this utter insanity are reconstructed descriptors..
lime mesa
@hushed bronze I can get behind that idea. Now I'm going to unpack the game just for that 
hearty wasp
Too bad you need to do more than just unpacking to get the raw audio files lmao
rigid mesa
hearty wasp
I've got an ininfite amount of em
obsidian tree
a countable or uncountable infinite though?
hearty wasp
uhhhh as infinite as I can be arsed to get in the game and actually make em
hearty wasp
We just need to do more research on it I suppose
thin viper
Oh I did two days worth of shit on it
It simply doesn't pick anything other than a single texture
hearty wasp
Oof
lime mesa
Aww darn
hearty wasp
nvm my game is fucked
hearty wasp
thin valve
Ohno
magic lava
Mount it
hushed bronze
@lime mesa May be easier to just record the audio directly? I dunno
@thin viper How could you refer to the atlast generator as NOT real-life stuff?
waxen cedar
Old astronaut model! Can it be used on player? @hearty wasp
hearty wasp
probably not
waxen cedar
I wonder why they even have it in the files anymore
Well that multi sword would be nice >.>
heavy merlin
There are lots of pre-release junk files left in for some reason
candid sage
Hey guys is their anyway to increase the viewing distance
hushed bronze
I just wanna crank the grass draw distance super far.
olive shoal
@candid sage if you mean FOV, then yes.
it's under your graphical settings
if you want it higher than 100 degrees, you'll have to manually edit the game's files.
hushed bronze
I dont think either of us meant FOV
In my case It annoys me that greass stops rendering like 25 u away even in vanilla
charred isle
Yeah they mean like typical draw distance modifiers
hushed bronze
I dont mind it for shit thats WAAAAY far out like distant foprests, though it would be cool.
but having grass visibly rendering in a tiny radius around you is kinda silly
candid sage
Yeah I would just like to see stuff before it renders in my face lol.
soft coral
charred isle
DEVS
hushed bronze
Some chump who was annoyed by it and bored enough to tackle the problem did it instead lol
soft coral
priorities, since it's not game breaker (although it's annoying)
charred isle
Yeah some chump who was fixated on one thing, not developing an entire game.
candid sage
I only get the clouds in polo's anomaly ship thing.
hushed bronze
its a major draw layer fuckup
charred isle
Doesn't have to be missed, just not prioritized right now
People reporting crashes and getting stuck in geometry are more important.
hushed bronze
It's been three months and they have fixed smaller things
also theres someone responsible for graphics who isnt at the center of the coding
at least one, probably a few
Its not 12 people with the same job.
soft coral
btw @hushed bronze is that what you wanted? https://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/mods/795
candid sage
Yeah nothing else bothers me really apart from the draw distance.
hushed bronze
Actually, dont get me wrong, still a huge help
just still obvious that the ground is bare at a fairly mediocre distance
soft coral
Hmm, that mod cites a big performance impact whenever you scale the type up
So that might be the reason why the modder had to hold his horses
hushed bronze
Well I'm rocking some hardawre with serious balls so I'm willing to cut pretty deep
Like, His ultra didnt make a noticable difference for me
soft coral
and did you notice a 25% performance drop?
hushed bronze
I kinda wish more modders would actually just drop the supercharged version and just note "If you dont have a good proc and a 1070+ you gon' dies. You've been wanred, Have Fun!"
I didnt have FPS counters up but no, the performance was not noticably affected but I could see the grass edge was farther out
soft coral
hmm, what's your vga?
hushed bronze
no kidding lmao
I could even tell the thing to lock all cores to 3GHz at all times if I wanted
Ofc if GPu's were fully utilized to the level CPU's usually are, a 1070 would stomp every CPU in terms of brute force
CPU's have a harder job, having to be a lot more versatile
soft coral
so you benchmarked it already?
hushed bronze
benchmarked what?
Thats just a known thing, generally represented with Teraflop tests, in which GPU's utterly decimate CPU's
And in pretty much any sustained calculation rivalries like coin mining, video encoding, image rendering, etc
GPU raw computing power absolutely destroys CPUs
Its like comparing a lamborghini (CPU) to a freight train (GPU)
Which one's more high-tech? Which one pulls mopre wight?
soft coral
Well, since you said the GPU wasn't fully utilized I assumed you used some tool to benchmark it, like the eVGA OC Scanner
Yeah, I know what you mean
hushed bronze
Nah I just was offhandedly dreaming that NMS was optimized to a huge degree
Would be cool
soft coral
Certainly, I have no idea as why they opted for OpenGL instead of Direct X
lime mesa
OpenGL is better
soft coral
But it's harder to program to
hushed bronze
They have their reasons
lime mesa
OpenGl has better performance
hushed bronze
I actually dont know too much about the OpenGL vs. DirectX
soft coral
Birb, don't you mean Vulkan?
hushed bronze
Yes
lime mesa
hushed bronze
It has a cooler name, so thats def what he meant
lime mesa
vulkan wha...
hushed bronze
Googles!
hushed bronze
Anyway its a newer third contender supposedly pretty great
hushed bronze
I dont know anything about that one either though
lime mesa
same here
soft coral
Doom uses it, and performance wise it's incredible
I hope NMS 2 uses Vulkan instead of OpenGL
Since now I think it's impossible to change it
lime mesa
NMS 2...
soft coral
lmao, one can dream
lime mesa
OpenGl as of now is better than DirectX so that's why HG is using
It still has fps drops 
soft coral
"DirectX, because it has a cleaner API and better documentation, is easier to learn. More developers using DirectX = more DirectX games = better driver support. This is a vicious loop that again leads to more DX devs, more DX games, and better DX drivers/tools/documentation."
Makes total sense
toxic goblet
this is why we need vulkan
misty island
dreamy tulip
The two underwater biomes from those trailer planets, ('NEW ERIDU' and 'NOYADEIX') at the beginning of the first two clips that I marked at the right times for, I've replicated :)
Alongside their respective beaches.
But each file iteration in the image below are files that contain (believable assets that spawn with thousands of distinctively unique styles... but with absolute consistency) within 11 files that were dynamically built based upon a wide variety of advanced code-based algorithms. However, the quantity of the unique file iterations are how many I specify my code to automate.
These files follow the respective themes of those two trailer planets, while also adding additional unique styles dynamically. First, I handcrafted those procedural environments (Like I used to with former versions of my Overhaul) then I ported it to my code to push it essentially, infinitely further for 'RaYRoD's MultiVerse'.
Lots of more depth to it though, but that's the short version
As a side note... I was recently looking at real life photos of Alpine lakes. I do have lakes in the fan project. But I really like how in this Alpine Environment - the lake shore is covered in pebbles and different sizes of rocks: https://i.imgur.com/2SHj7Kl.jpg
Therefore, I will add rules, so that (if) you are on an Alpine styled environment... the edges of lakes or beaches will have the possibility of being covered in rocks and fragments and pebbles and bushes or whatsoever.
Since not every Alpine environment has rocks and pebbles around the edges of lakes. I am making it a not common possibility (in a dynamic fashion) in the midst of essentally infinite possibilities with distinctively unique, but believable styles for each individual possibility; following their respective themes with also the possibility of more alienish vibes/styles.
Alongside many many other possibiltiies of styles, believable to an Alpine Environment.
And the same kind of believable styles (unique to unique-environments) will have their own respective rules no matter where you are in the MultiVerse on whatever unique styled or themed environment.
More info here: https://justpaste.it/5c7xc
toxic goblet
Why not dynamically generate mbins instead of packing thousands?
supple wadi
...? Like just send someone a thrown together program to generate a pak with the mbins or something?
toxic goblet
No. Hook into game logic to generate mbins on the fly.
If they're all procedurally made under strict rules, why not have the mod just run the same code
Or can we not hook code in to mods
supple wadi
I'm pretty sure that would require us to have the script extender updated, which no one's taken on because it would likely have to be as frequently updated as the game is being now
And at the same time, I'm pretty sure given the look of the mbins that the game isn't tossing these together on the fly. Some of us, like RaY & Gamer, have put together some tools to better streamline the process of putting these files together, but that's not the same as say pulling from the game logic or whathaveyou
hushed bronze
I think that would involve denying what RayRod intends to accomplish
He's clearly not in pursuit of ease
in any case, Modded with DE
supple wadi
Umm, RaY's actually been working on writing up some code to help them automate their work, but with their aims in mind
dreamy tulip
I do have a script hook that I use, and the thought of generating mbins in real-time did cross my mind
hushed bronze
He has said multiople times something like "Quality and Quantity"
dreamy tulip
However, that would require finding whichever function (determines what requires specific files) to be loaded at runtime
That's a hardcoded ordeal
hushed bronze
Taking crude shortcuts doesnt seem to be Ray's style
supple wadi
Sure, but you can automate that process; either way, RaY's here so they can explain what they're up to with it if they want
dreamy tulip
@supple wadi Do you think the hardcoded check that causes speciifc things to only load upon boot, could be disabled?
That's a thought that crossed my mind
With the NMS scripthook that I use, you can modify the game live
But, the nature of 'some things' is that they only load/change upon boot
Globals is an example
Maybe down the line, I'll focus on that. However, what I'm working on I'm quite satisfied with