I like it. I don't think that every planet has to feel alien. What I'm aiming for is "Unique Vibes" within every planet that you land on. That every place will feel different.
Although, there are alien things going on and around.
#nms-modding
dreamy tulip
I can probably do that, that's a good idea. Thanks!
They do vary in colors though
supple wadi
Nah I know, it's your project your deal, for my own interests I would want to minimize the realness, without dipping too far into fantasy
dreamy tulip
Oh, I see. Yeah. I guess that I'm thinking from an LBP perspective.
Like, one planet on there (that a user created) would be totally different than another, but there was everything haha
I want to have the super alienish planets as well
Which I will work around to again
But, it's odd
Walking on this planet, feels like walking in a Canadian forest or something
lol
It's not something that I would expect out of NMS
What would be too far into fantasy to you?
🤔
ebon onyx
looks more like Finnish forests
dreamy tulip
I like seeing scifi novel cover arts
Of awesome scenery
But hey, I gotta brb and get my food
ebon onyx
it's easy to make more sci-fi, shrooms and light pillars work well 😄
dreamy tulip
Gotta brb, but now I'm moving onto a woodland biome
Still barebones, but here's what I have so far
dreamy tulip
Finished that set of proceudral biomes about an hour ago, moving onto the next thing
ebon onyx
any ETA for new Overhaul ?
dreamy tulip
I've just started, no eta
ebon onyx
ah 😄
dreamy tulip
But won't be that long
cyan oracle
a day late, and a dollar short.. story of my life.. the rar issues is a winrar4.0 compression issue.. if a rar file is packed with winrar4.0 or greater, it uses a newer method of compression that 7zip doesn't like and even former versions of winrar don't like.. upgrading winrar to it's current version is the easiest solution.. but at least you guys had alternatives
supple wadi
Gross.
Good info to know tho
cyan oracle
also, thanks for all the shout outs and credits @dreamy tulip ❤
echo oxide
I use Bandizip for now
dreamy tulip
So, I just overhauled the way that the game's engine generates all things. The game is now practically seamless, and you can barely ever see anything generating or fading in (though it still does).
I was also just flying across a planet at full speed and I did not see anything fading in/generating except one or two trees that were extremely far away. Also, this was a dense and tall forest.
Every asset in the game now feels like it has always been there, and that it will always be there
dreamy tulip
Just disabled the hardcoded check that pauses generation in photomode
Creating a script hook for it
lime mesa
Looking great Ray
dreamy tulip
@lime mesa Thanks!
warm thistle
That's really awesome dude
ebon onyx
Told ya it is really easy to make sci-fi biomes 😛 it doesn't need to make sense like those huge mushroom like trees 😄
rich sable
Pardon my ignorance, but is the modding an unofficial thing? Is sharing/implementing easy, or is it a 'you have to mod for yourself' sort of thing?
rotund vine
Why does it look like the shaders are so much different than the actual game? @dreamy tulip
supple wadi
@rich sable Modding is essentially unofficial. There's some implicit recognition by HG, but no official tools or documentation to work with. Sharing & implementing mods isn't too difficult, give or take what you're looking at, and is mostly just a bit tedious.
rich sable
Gotcha. Appreciate the answer!
dreamy tulip
Just getting around to here
The shaders are extremely different from the vanilla game
There's a lot of tailor made shaders for the overhaul, that I have worked on myself and also some other contributed one's from a few friends
And then there's a ton of other non-shader related visual changes
@rotund vine
gloomy prawn
rich sable
I'd be happy with lowering the frequency of the 'no inventory space' audio
steel crypt
Yeah, I have always made sound oriented mods for different games. I have always been interested in sound, but a lot of games focus on other things. I have wanted to make an exosuit voice mod, but don't have the time to learn the process for converting NMS sound files back and forth. I wish someone made a converter. I think monkeyman was working on one at one time. If there is a converter, I would give it a go or two.
prisma fog
[5:24 AM] Titan of Astora: Oof. I need to start writing down these things.
[5:25 AM] Titan of Astora: I ran into the same issue of my fov being hugely decreased and I had forgotten what mod it was from - in addition, much of the text is listed in variable format as opposed to name, for example (save_game_01)
[5:25 AM] Titan of Astora: Which isn't a huge issue.
dreamy tulip
Sounds like you're using an outdated mod (like a certain flashlight mod), and that you're playing in the Russian language @prisma fog Yea?
elder belfry
hey @dreamy tulip have you been updating your mod mirrors?
on the nexus page
the google drive link points to a 500ish mb rar
Also i think you've done an excellent job. Trying it out now.
dreamy tulip
Hi, thanks for pointing that out. Turns out that I have not updated that mirror with the mirror that is pinned in this chat.
I am re-doing the entire mod from scratch, so I've put the former version onh old for the time being
prisma fog
@dreamy tulip Nope, it was the mods faster scanner recharge and faster farming that were causing both issues.
elder belfry
kk
dreamy tulip
@prisma fog Glad that you sorted out your issue
Right now, I'm working more on terrain. So that each biome will have unique terrain. I'm attempting to fuse a forest with a marsh.
cinder delta
Man I wish there was an easy way to figure out which of the mods I use is crashing my game 😅
Looking good Ray 😛
dreamy tulip
@cinder delta Thanks!
Working on a Marsh Forest
And about your issue
Maybe try deducing which onne it is by removing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 at a time or so
Until it stops crashing
cinder delta
Yeah, that's the current plan. Hoping it's not one of the mods I REALLY want to use causing the crash though, I hope it's just one of the smaller QoL mods haha
dreamy tulip
cinder delta
Ray is there a standalone version of your E3 Hud I can use?
cinder delta
Thank you kindly 😃
dreamy tulip
I made 'Procedural Planetary Freighters'
This Freighter was looming over a water world with the work in progress 'RaYRoD's Overhaul' Reboot.
Also, no problem!
cinder delta
I can just never get over how much nicer the E3 hud is
cinder delta
@lime mesa Much love to you too!
Like even down to the Crosshairs the E3 hud was nicer imo
the font, style, everything
dreamy tulip
I'm glad that you like it. I'm planning to attempt an improved version of the current one.
cinder delta
Well let me know if you do 😃
dreamy tulip
Sounds good 👌
dreamy tulip
lime mesa
Looks like my cottage
lime mesa
yup. thats a perfect spot for a base right there
dreamy tulip
Just added new terrain rules for these kind of planet types (biome specific)
Flat
Hills
Lakes
Low Elevation
Low Elevation #2
Low Elevation #3
High Elevation
Plains
Quarries
Sand Dunes
Vanilla
Water World
Interstellar Style Water World
dreamy tulip
frank cove
Very strong E3 vibes on this Radiated planet, especially with the sun behind the planet and the godrays coming through.. Great job Ray!
Also sorry for the 768p resolution, running it on a smaller monitor until I get a new one. Cat knocked the other one off the table trying to sit on top of it and it was only 1 inch thick. 😂
Honestly, the ground looks like corroded copper.
pine oak
Hey does anyone have any mods that would make the games fell more like stargate !! i feel like there is massive potential there, you already have all the mechanics and coding to make it so just textures really and some changes to code, maybe something like the rules of Stargate Universe with the Destiny and that particular stargate network!! @everyone
supple wadi
🤔 what
what even are the "rules of Stargate Universe" and what do you mean by "with the Destiny"?
pine oak
have you watched the show ?
@supple wadi
So you begin on the outskirts of the galaxy with no resources aboard a freighter (reskined to look like the ship named the Destiny from Stargate: Universe the show) its a semi-permadeath system as well, so the ship has places to live, grow things and move around in as well as having a single shuttle (NMS ship). so you cannot control the warps and you just a single star system each time once you drop out of a warp, you take the shuttle and go to any of the planets within that system (the warp capabilities of the shuttle will need to be removed) to gather as many resources and techs as you can all while on a timer (maybe an 1-4 hours) before the freighter warps again leaving you stranded in that system.
my self and @tranquil turtle have been talking and working on the concept for this idea !!
trade marked copyright!!
pallid tartan
@pine oak that sounds really difficult to mod in
lime mesa
So you want another start mod?
pine oak
im mean it may be difficult but the basics are there ready to be worked with !!
gusty fulcrum
apart from the timer
heady slate
does anyone know what kind of shaders RayRod is using?
supple wadi
What do you mean?
Generally speaking, they're likely to be customized versions of the game's existing shaders
dreamy tulip
@heady slate I'm using a combination of several 3rd party shaders that were ported into NMS format for the overhaul, a few custom versions of contributed shaders by a few friends... which I also changed a lot with their permission for use with the overhaul, a few by my friend TemplarGFX, a few re-worked shaders (from a couple other people) that TemplarGFX re-worked and expanded on, that I also further re-worked a bit in the shaders, and also outside of the shaders.... and several (non-released as standalone) shader mods that I made; dating back to last year for the Overhaul.
However, if you are wondering in full what makes the game look the way that it does with the Overhaul mod (without any filters or external post processing) like this album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctlrXOCukM
Then I'd say that it is a result of shaders, but the visuals are also heavily a result of a massive amount of visual adjustments (done outside of the shaders) by me.
covert adder
Just a question about Modding at this point in time:
isn't it like for naught at this point in time? With the "Next" update looming so close? I mean ya, for sure, After it drops and all, But wouldn't just about any work I would do, not work after the update.
dreamy tulip
Decided to write something about this, for anyone in general (Regarding mods potentially becoming outdated with official updates):
The nature of every update to No Man's Sky, usually results in various mods needing to be updated. Also, not every mod/file gets outdated when a new update hits. We also have a community of people who will work to help update the commonly used tools that people use for making mods. The common rhetoric/misconception that is spoken here and there within the NMS community all around is usually of the following: "What is the point of making MODS, before the update? It's just going to break anyway." - That is 100% pure speculation. The reality is that we don't know what NEXT will change in totality and no one on the outside of HG's w/o official insight on their newer file heirarchy and executable can conclude that. Also, in the worst case scenario... modders who know what they are doing can update their mods which usually takes minutes (depending on what their mod is and does). Working on mods now, in a strategic way, can also lay the groundwork for quick updating... and those who are interested in research and becoming more skilled with working with the files do not care whether a new update will break it or not. They can simply update it if they plan to. Also, by this logic... "All moders should never make mods... because a new update is bound to hit at some point". No, we prepare for things like this. It's really a small non-issue, that is not worth being concerned about.
junior furnace
Also, will mods be needed after NEXT, because I guess that mods are usefull for non-updated games, especially NMS
dreamy tulip
Mods are never needed. Mods are optional, and can be used by choice. Apart from that... even with the most updated/polished games, there's always room in some area for improvements (modifications) and modders will always find a way to do so.
covert adder
Well, I do Thank you for your input @dreamy tulip , But My question was really from a person whom hasn't modded before's point of view. Since I haven't modded anything for a game since Diablo II:LoD... lol... I am interested in learning to mod for NMS though, and was wondering if I should start putting in the work now, Or Wait till after Next Drops, and learn than...
only a matter of weeks, at this point...
dreamy tulip
@covert adder Although NEXT is a few weeks away, and we do not know what will or won't change, and learning how to mod No Man's Sky is something that you are interested in... it doesn't hurt to get a head start in becoming familiar with the game's file structure. It might save you some time in figuring out certain basic things later on by starting now. That is just from my perspective, but ultimately it's up to you. However, it's not that long from now... so, either way seems to work out best.
covert adder
@dreamy tulip : As I said, I do appreciate your input in this matter, and I've already been learning the file structure and all. it's more how to work with some of the different types of files in NMS. and I sucked at graphix files in Diablo II:LoD, So I'm most likely not going to even try anything like that with NMS...
dreamy tulip
In that case, becoming more familiar with the game's files should not hold any consequences when NEXT arrives. If anything, it should save you time when NEXT hits.
covert adder
Kool, thanks..... I'm sorry, I ducked out to play a lil NMS there for a few min... lol
dreamy tulip
I just fixed the water. There's now more detail (while it still being smooth), more opaque hi-res foam, very subtle waves and subtle tides. No more unnatural snap back after the waves finish. The blending should be on point now. While underwater a depth of field should kick in with fog (and it gets darker the deeper that you traverse underwater), in which the colors match the water color palette on the surface. It's also been balanced out, so that you can still see (but it still feels like it's underwater). I also handcrafted various water color palettes from actual E3 footages (and made more natural and sensible water palettes per biome type).
It's working in tandem with the overhaul of Lo2k's shader overhaul of HelloGame's shader by TemplarGFX with various other (water related adjustments) in the shaders and outside of the shaders that I made.
I also increased the reflectiveness
viscid iron
wait there are mods for this game?
damn
charred isle
Yeah it has a good structure for modding
I personally play vanilla but I dabbled a bit with mods early on
dreamy tulip
Although, I do think that "mods" for No Man's Sky are cool... I see myself more-so as someone who is more centered towards vanilla gameplay. Some people might wonder "What do you mean by that?" "You've modified like nearly every aspect of the game". That is true, but the majority of the changes that I make are aimed at restoring what "originally was vanilla No Man's Sky" - Just an older and drastically different build.
Personally, my intent (with a few rare exceptions) has always been to keep things like vanilla (but in the style of a cross between particular pre-release, 'vanilla' builds with modernizations.)... that were so drastically different in so many ways) which is an immense amount of work... while also enhancing the aspects of the vanilla game that have been heavily downgraded or could simply be pushed much further (without cost).
In otherwords, I don't like to do things just to do it, just because it's possible... but rather with a goal/vision/purpose/concept. (Just randomly babling here)
lime mesa
Is there any way to implement custom functionality into NMS right now or is that not possible with the way the game's files work?
dreamy tulip
@lime mesa Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Custom Functionality"?
lime mesa
Like adding something that when interacted with does something that isn't in the game currently, like how you can in other games that have a Lua modding API? Does NMS have anything that can achieve something like or similar to this?
dreamy tulip
Not so sure about adding new scripted events to the game, as I haven't tried or looked into it.
RaYRoD's Overhaul (WIP Reboot)
frosty vine
Lookin good m8
dreamy tulip
Thanks.
Now each biome will have a selection of relevant biome palettes (for various things environmentally) Some palettes assembled from pre-release stills, others from Google, other's from outside of my house again, others just from being creative. However, they should always make sense per biome type. I used a palette from a real-life toxic sludge for the toxic biome water and an icy water palette for the frozen biome. I'm considering making the barren biome's water, murky and dirty. I still need to see what else (water related I may do), prior to handcrafting more atmospheric visuals, and more grass.
frosty vine
Is this still the immersion update or something new
dreamy tulip
As mentioned above, it's the work in progress reboot
I started from scratch
I'm taking this opportunity to refine all areas of the fan project and to push things further than ever before
supple wadi
Sounds a bit like you're back on the biome bender
dreamy tulip
Oh yeah. I will be doing a lot more of that. But I've been primarily focusing on other aspects the past few days. Mostly the color balancing and stuff.
obtuse knoll
Can't wait for my new PC with a GTX1080 to play with mods😀
dreamy tulip
Haha
Was messing with the voxelgen more
and also biome settings
and global stuff
And created a lake preset as seen there
warm thistle
That water looks fantastic
dreamy tulip
Working on proper beaches now
https://i.imgur.com/SSEOSut.png
dreamy tulip
Blue Tropical Paradise:
https://i.imgur.com/bmrHJwl.png
dreamy tulip
Just made this ice water palette for the frozen biomes. Going to start working on an "Arctic style biome" with floating ice on the water.
https://i.imgur.com/uoVEpgW.png
https://i.imgur.com/aMpf0vf.png
dreamy tulip
A procedural rainforest variant that I made (One of 200 so far). The next version of RaYRoD's Overhaul will include a 'generation' overhaul in which I am calling it 'seamless generation'. The in-game universe will be overall consistent, and nearly seamless during exploration. The in-game universe will be overall consistent, and nearly seamless during exploration (where the only thing that you may see need to fade in is the grass... but even that extends far in the distance).
supple wadi
Uhh, you have a few repeating lines there
dreamy tulip
Thanks! 😂
dreamy tulip
The bird speed seems on point to old footage now
That gif tool doesn't support 60fps
It's not lagging in-game at all
lime mesa
Do these hand crafted biomes have procedural variation or are they the same no matter where they are in the universe? Also, could all these Earth-like biomes be combined to make Earth like planets?
dreamy tulip
@lime mesa All of the biomes that I hand crafted are procedural, like vanilla is. However, I've set rules so that they will generate in a certain unique style per individual biome. However, there are a few biomes that I've intentionally set to be identical always (because they are intended to give a specific kind of vibe/appearence) - while also creating alternate variations of those with proc rules.
lime mesa
RayRod playing god over here
sacred trout
^ You're doing god's work Ray
dreamy tulip
Thanks for the kindness.
Arctic style biome here we come:
https://i.imgur.com/6WsPnlm.png
Going to start working on it now
Now that I got floating ice working properly
dreamy tulip
What to do next? 🤔
I'll finish porting over the rest of the E3 and other (off the record) frozen biomes.
I recently finished re-making "Ikolomansky"
cunning raven
Do you think the "N.E.X.T" update will put tons more emphasis on the biomes as well?
dreamy tulip
Hopefully, so. 😛
They did a bit on AR
Not to the extent that I prefer, but they made changes
cunning raven
I like your ideas
that you modded into the game
It's really what should have been added before hand tbh
dreamy tulip
Well, what I am doing is restoring /replicating what used to be "Vanilla" No Man's Sky (Unmodded) , while also adding my own twists and taking certain aspects further than it ever was.
E3 builds had floating ice 😛
It was just never shown to us.
So, this will be a modernized E3-2013-2015-IGN-Atlas Rises build (and eventually NEXT)
cunning raven
It would have made the frozen environments with water (red etc) look way, way better
I don't think I've seen any glaciers in Nms yet
dreamy tulip
Oh yes, it's such a small thing... but this kind of stuff adds so much depth to the game when implemented.
It's not just the big and flashy stuff that's matters (which is cool too), but the smaller details
Especially when the smaller/often unrecognized or forgotten aspects of this game's already existing potential is realized, and more and more changes begin to add up and end up and make significant differences and polish
cunning raven
And adding on to that, does Hello Games see modders like you have done?
dreamy tulip
Sean has retweeted stuff from my work before yeah, and they've seen stuff on my page before
But I'm just another fan 😛
cunning raven
Making Nms more interesting
dreamy tulip
I'm inspired by them and what they already did, but I do at times go out of my way and do a fresh new take. The scope of my focus involves in-game content, and re-working in-game content... although I have created 3rd party content for NMS before.
cunning raven
I really, really want them to add those improvements into the game
But dang those hours though
putting so much effort into that!
I'm glad Sean has seen it tbh
He needs to see it
dreamy tulip
I can't wait for NEXT. If things end up for the better "mod-wise", wouldn't it be cool to explore unique biomes in MP if that pans out as hoped?
dreamy tulip
I'm using this time to work on the Overhaul reboot, while also laying the foundation for easy/quick updating.
And doing a fresh new take.
cunning raven
I wish I could partake but all I'm good at is Quantum Physics
I have several ideas but I knew they wouldn't make it to the real world
because I lacked the skill
And I still do
dreamy tulip
That's awesome man
cunning raven
But seeing these mods, whether on steam, youtube, reddit and the like, it still makes me rejoice that all you guys are striving to make Nms better
But seriously, Sean should hire y'all
obsidian tree
@cunning raven I am a physicist too, if you can understand quantum mechanics modding will be easy! 😛
obsidian tree
that is the same thing
obsidian tree
theoretical physics is just a umbrella term
like QM is just one particular aspect of theoretical physics
dreamy tulip
Professor Monkey Newton 192
dreamy tulip
Now there's 3 different Ice water variations (that range in density and scale). Also, I've made it so there's no longer a shadow casted and also so that it's no longer fully above the water.
You can also walk on top of the ice, and drive exocrafts on them.
supple wadi
🤔 Ice could still cast shadows on water if enough is above it, but with those that's probably the right call
warm thistle
Damn man, that's something I never thought I'd see in NMS. Badass 
dreamy tulip
frosty vine
Oh yessss
supple wadi
That the old lunar stuff?
supple wadi
Have to imagine they must have used those to play around with for awhile
lime mesa
Old lunar stuff?
dreamy tulip
Those were a kind of proc building shown in pre-release screenshots and footages
supple wadi
They're just a few steps away from being like some structures we now have
dreamy tulip
I like them, because of their set apart style
Some of the NPC buildings look similar though in the base game
lime mesa
actually yeah. now that I think of it, that second structure does look familiar
supple wadi
Yeah, I hadn't trimmed down to the domed stuff ya have up there before (I think?), really striking how they look like slighter versions of current outpost structures
🤞 for more proc structures with Next
lime mesa
yup. not exact though
supple wadi
I think there is one iteration of the structure that's exactly that, RaY's got a screenshot of where they reintroduced it somewhere, lol
dreamy tulip
Oh no, I don't think so.
Back then I had these proc buildings getting loaded as well
But I've only seen that variation, or a similar one randomly chosen once
supple wadi
Oh, may be thinking of the very similar one then
toxic goblet
But is that actually a chicken?
echo oxide
"You betrayed me! You're not good. You, you're just a chicken. Chip-chip-chip-chip-cheep-cheep."
dreamy tulip
I'm going to try making a flower field biome
stable crystal
Hey RayRod. I have as bug in the main quest line thats caused the building my quest is in, to not be there. I'm using your Mod, have you come across this before?
wondered if you might be able to help 😃
dreamy tulip
Hi, @stable crystal. I have not encountered this bug before... but can you try this hotfix test?
stable crystal
shall do so now. Cheers
do i need to drop it somewhere in particular, or just in the NMS folder
@dreamy tulip I dropped it in the Mods folder (Presuming i'm supposed to drop it there) And still no building. I'll post a screenshot of what im getting
There is a very real possibility of course that its not the mod...
dreamy tulip
Oh, sorry, I mis-read what you originally said.
Yeah, that version has a few building issues that are now fixed on the wip reboot. I'll look into it soon
stable crystal
Cool beans. For now, is there any way for me to get passed it, or should i disable the mod?
dreamy tulip
Sent you a file through dm
frosty vine
Are you gonna be working with more proc buildings/ placements in this reboot?
pine oak
So what's the process i actually have to go through to install a mod in NMS?
pine oak
yeah okay cause i bought myself NMS on steam the other week and really only for the purpose of modding seen as thought my big worlds are all on PS4
heavy oar
Or maybe to play with people from thé PC comunity
I mean in 18 days mods will be obsolete soo 
pine oak
yeah but its only a matter of time before the mods get update to work on the new update, or they make new ones for it so i think it should be fine, and im a pretty big loner i only play with the one person on PS4
heavy oar
Yeah but i dont sée anyone better than thé creator themself to bring some groundbreaking features
supple wadi
Go to NMS in your Steam directory here:
No Man's Sky\GAMEDATA\PCBANKS\
Back up/remove/rename DISABLEMODS.txt to ENABLEMODS.txt or move to a different folder, then create a folder called MODS
Then when ya download a mod, simply copy over the .pak file to the MODS folder & it should work, if it says compatible with Atlas Rises
heavy oar
👌
pine oak
why okay thank you @supple wadi that really is easy !
pine oak
yeah i mean look at minecraft mods get outdated in a couple of days/weeks all good to go again!
dreamy tulip
People were saying the same whooplah, pre-1.3. It's as if they're hoping for that
Things always end up for the better ❤
pine oak
Yeah i mean i think there will be many more possibilities for modding once all the new features are done!
supple wadi
It's not so much obsolete, as just broken temporarily while we get stuff sorted out, lol
pine oak
yeah
dreamy tulip
In some cases, it's takes a matter of minutes haha
supple wadi
Yeah
obsidian tree
Some cases it is weeks lol
obsidian tree
I am hoping to have mbincompiler updated within a few days of update, so then it will just come down to how easy it is for authors to update their mods
dreamy tulip
The nature of every update to No Man's Sky usually results in various mods needing to be updated. Also, not every mod/file gets outdated when a new update hits. We also have a community of people who will work to help update the commonly used tools that people use for making mods. The common rhetoric/misconception that is spoken here and there within the NMS community all around is usually of the following: "What is the point of making MODS, before the update? It's just going to break anyway." - That is 100% pure speculation. The reality is that we don't know what NEXT will change in totality and no one on the outside of HG's w/o official insight on their newer file hierarchy and executable can conclude that. Also, in the worst case scenario... modders who know what they are doing can update their mods which usually takes minutes (depending on what their mod is and does). Working on mods now, in a strategic way, can also lay the groundwork for quick updating... and those who are interested in research and becoming more skilled with working with the files do not care whether a new update will break it or not. They can simply update it if they plan to. Also, by this logic... "All modders should never make mods... because a new update is bound to hit at some point". No, we prepare for things like this. It's really a small non-issue, that is not worth being concerned about.```Ah nice @obsidian tree
obsidian tree
At least globals should take less time to update this time. I'm a lot better at RE-ing them now :p
supple wadi
would be killer if they made some official tools, if for no other reason than it would likely mean quicker file editing, lol
dreamy tulip
My c++ mods might still work w/o needing to be updated. Eager to see how that pans out. They worked for the last 3 updates due to consistent memory patterns
If not, it'll be easy to update
supple wadi
they changed everything! 😮
obsidian tree
I know my globals mapping in CE will break
dreamy tulip
Yeah, the globals are bound to change
I hated that, back when the 3rd person flight mod was in executable form that I originally did
supple wadi
In all seriousness, the introduction of a player model may change a bunch
obsidian tree
But they are easy to find and won't matter for a bit
dreamy tulip
But is no longer an issue with this other way
obsidian tree
I'm interested to see how many new structs they add. We currently have what... Almost 800?
dreamy tulip
I'm hoping that the herd struct, and some other new one's that are unused are fleshed out
Even though herds can be done via globals
I think there's more than one kind ofherds that have been used before in the game
obsidian tree
I need to write some analysis scripts for IDA so I can see what structs have changed
dreamy tulip
namespace MBINCompiler.Models.Structs
{
public class GcCreatureGroups : NMSTemplate
{
public int CreatureGroup;
public string[] CreatureGroupValues()
{
return new[] { "Solo", "Couple", "Group", "Herd" };
}
}
}
Ah ok
dreamy tulip
Sounds really cool haha
obsidian tree
It will depend on how much is exposed as mbins
Because they could easily just hard code a lot of behaviour
dreamy tulip
Yeah, fair enough. I'm also hoping that certain static mbins will have that cap lifted off
Like the voxelgen for eg
obsidian tree
Like, if they made an 'animalbehavioirtable' then we would be in buisness :p
I have a love/relationship with new tables in metadata
obsidian tree
I love them because new moddable stuff
obsidian tree
I hate them because it is often quite a few hoirs of solid work to make them decompile lol
dreamy tulip
They are flexible
supple wadi
still so weird to me how they seem to have just stopped shy of more specific creature stuff with the different ecology tables
dreamy tulip
If it were figured out (if it's still possible) to utilize the unused creature slot within biome object files
There is A LOT of potential with it
supple wadi
Like instead of having it randomly choose which are prey/predator/passive/etc. they could associate it more closely with diff. types and such
obsidian tree
Like with most coding things, doing an overhaul of a system is always a difficult process
dreamy tulip
- Huge time saver
- Unique complex rules
- You can tell the game, a specific altid appearance for a creature and define it's textures (w/o going through the hassle of what I did for a lot of them)
- You can greatly expand creature variety per biome (and restrict certain types to certain individual biome object files) - so like 4 per biome
- You can use seeds for them
supple wadi
True, but what I'm pointing to is that they already have the types available to use and associate with some of the creatures
obsidian tree
The amount of times I have put off recoding stuff because of the effort to do it is silly
Often without a huge gain
supple wadi
Like what I'm thinking of wouldn't necessarily require recoding existing systems, since they're already there
obsidian tree
Ah fair enough
Never really looked into creatures
I'm hoping next will make me want to actually play NMS again lol
supple wadi
It would just be telling the game that trex is trex and trex are predator, lol
dreamy tulip
By the why........
supple wadi
Like I think RaY's already done some work of that sort in the overhaul tbh
dreamy tulip
Is a shark named trex?
obsidian tree
No? Lol
obsidian tree
There is a shark model that is some weird default thing
supple wadi
Oooh, maybe just reused the spawner
obsidian tree
I remember spawning it back in 1.0x when we were testing creature spawn forcing
Got some pretty funny pics of it
Anyway, I'm gonna go play some switch :p
pine oak
okay testing the mods now to see if it will wrok
dreamy tulip
Was the shark animated? @obsidian tree
pine oak
and they work like a charm, by far the easiest modding i have ever done
dreamy tulip
obsidian tree
Nope, static and vertical
dreamy tulip
Yeah, that's how it appeared on my end too
lol
I'm still debating on a switch
It's been fully jailbroken
And emulation for it has also started
But
I'm considering getting the new 144z 4K monitor
That was announced
The pre-orders are like 2 grand though.
But I've never played a switch yet
So, it's also tempting lol
dreamy tulip
supple wadi
I want to say they've set it so it varies depending on the biome, as we can adjust the strength of it & other properties
supple wadi
Not so simple with RaY's work, given the numerous biomes they've made
But I'm pretty sure one could do that if they wanted
dreamy tulip
Hey
I've balanced everything out perfectly now
It took over a year to sort stuff out and to study how it works, but I've done so
Each biome has unique weather that I've handcrafted
And unique palettes
And unique atmospherics
And the weather transitions dynamically
I've created around 300 custom weather/heavyair types as well now
Alongside replicating various pre-release heavyair
But I am not done with making more
lime mesa
😮
dreamy tulip
Also, when storms kick in... the clouds may change color (to a relevant color depending on the kind of biome and storm type)
and a subtle depth of field may transition
with a thicker fog
but it varies, depending on the kind of storm
Some planets that are just stormy, can have fog
Some planets with no fog at all
This planet has monsoon weather
So, it's pretty foggy
And there's also adjusted heightfog that can hover above the water or deep gaps in the ground (I had to adjust it in-real time to get a balanced height).
But I've also handcrafted pre-release fog palettes
And other custom one's
and there's unique sun colours
and bioluminescant planets
Like this one from an older version:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/215514674869829633/449476856887115794/275850_20180511051017_1.png?width=1201&height=676
However, there's several different kinds
And then other stuff
And then around 600 other biome palettes that I made by hand
And then several others that I generated with monkeyman's help with python awhile back
And then 2 billion 400 million different addiitonal overall atmopsheric templates for biomes that entirely change the way planets look, (from when I handcrafted atmospherics based off of pre-release stills, fan art, concept art, photos from google, photos from outside of my house into the game) in real-time, prior to saving those values and transfering them into saved xml templates, prior to re-writing those templates by hand in python format, prior to adding designated rules in key areas (to create different kinds of palettes in only those key areas) to create the 2 billion 400 million variants through python
Alongside various other separate pre-release replications for space
And slightly altered than vanilla atmospherics
Tiny album here:
https://imgur.com/a/UbVbXas
But this is only a small portion of this aspect of the visuals, the tedious part was balancing everything properly in-game
supple wadi
🤔 wait that number increased didn't it
dreamy tulip
So that it would match the relevant biome type
Oh nope:
https://i.imgur.com/205zo8m.png
Same as before
It used to only be 120 million
dreamy tulip
Yeah haha
Vanilla has 40 templates
400 palettes
Some are similar to others, some look very nice
But this was heavily used pre-release apparently
lime mesa
pls 4k
dreamy tulip
Tropical Paradise
lime mesa
are you recording it in 4k tho
dreamy tulip
No, I don't have a 4k monitor
lime mesa
darn
dreamy tulip
RaYRoD's Overhaul (Wip REBOOT) - Alpine Lake + Seamless Generation
I handcrafted this procedural biome. This Alpine biome is also one of 36 different *unique* alpine variations for the upcoming *reboot* of No Man's Sky: RaYRoD's Overhaul, (that also newly introduces what I am calling 'Seamless Generation'), which emulates a consistent universe with rarely any need for in-game fading. Everything shall feel as if it has already been in place, and always will remain in place with my new overhaul of the game engine's generation.
fiery urchin
Is anyone here able to turn a ship seed into an STL file for 3D pri t?
lime mesa
Wish i could!
fiery urchin
Me too!
dreamy tulip
One could look at a ship seed, assemble the parts in a model viewer manually, and then export it as an .obj file (but the colours may be off)
supple wadi
^This, and once in .obj can convert to .stl
dreamy tulip
The 'Alpine Lake' biome that I've handcrafted is also a near replication (with my own twist) of an E3 planet titled 'Spekira II' from the Infinite Worlds trailer that I used as a visual concept, shown here: https://youtu.be/0APP5WcX8v8?t=18
Time to do the rest.
autumn moth
nice
autumn moth
🐟
frosty vine
Dont forget the crashed ships
dreamy tulip
On my todo list 👌
weary magnet
Is it possible to extract some of the images found in the Guide section within the menu in High Quality?
lime mesa
Would texmod work on the game?
weary magnet
But taking a screenshot is too low quality
lime mesa
You can rip textures out of it
weary magnet
Where is it?
lime mesa
I don’t remember. You may be able to find a download online somewhere. I used it years ago for way less intensive games
That’s why I’m not sure about NMS
lime mesa
Something to do with running it in the background and sorting through textures through an overlay. I may try it later
It’s been a while though
It’s also not supported anymore afaik
Since it’s on fileplanet lol. A bit of an older site
weary magnet
The problem is. I don't have NMS on PC
weary magnet
If it does that would be great! 😄
I think I would still be able to get the images I want. But it would be a hassle
lime mesa
@weary magnet I tried running it, but I was met with an error. I may try it again later, but at this point looking to other options may suffice
weary magnet
Ok. Thanks for trying though 😄
supple wadi
@weary magnet
lime mesa
converted the files to PNG and sent it to them
weary magnet
😄
supple wadi
Thanks @lime mesa, & sorry about that @weary magnet. Was it the .dds format, or the zip?
weary magnet
.dds
Also, I was wondering if it would be possible to extract more...alot more images? 😬
simple jetty
Does anyone here have a working reshade? i would greatly appreciate it if you do. I played the game back then with reshade and mainly used the sharpness/clarity but now i can't seem to find any reshade mod that works...:/ Now my eyes see the game blurry lol...i guess they got use to the sharpness/clarity of the reshade. If not then i guess its no problem sadly.
dreamy tulip
By the by... this is what the Alpine Biome looked like at E3.
A few differences that I notice.
- There's a subtle depth of field in the distance (which is also creating that blur effect on the nearby planet)
- There's a yellowish heavyair palette for the fog and height fog
- There's swamp rain present (identical to flettia)
- The height in-between the trees, and especially the (the more taller) tree is differently balanced
- The tree with the hanging leaves is taller than I have it now currently
- There's a subtle mountain in the background
I'm going to make these changes next
west notch
sorry, i've been out of the loop. What is wip reboot? it's going to be an update of the overhaul already on the nexus? Or it's something you're doing thinking of the official Hello Games update?
dreamy tulip
@west notch
I wrote this about it
Working with No Man's Sky is a hobby, an enjoyment, and a great learning experience for me. It's also a lot about research. Therefore, I am not willing to put down this experience/research/learning process (because an update is coming) - because by that logic, all modders should put down mod creation because we already know that a new update is bound to hit eventually and potentially break things. Like any other build to No Man's Sky, I have created my own custom build (that also has every single released build of No man's Sky ported by yours truly and integrated into it), that throughout time will still remain a custom build... and does not depend on any updates to have it's value. Some players on PS4, revert to a unique build and play on it. Specifically, The PS4 RC1 build. I am also an artist at heart, and I really just love to create things with the game... like some people love to use Photoshop, or other things... (Like Stoian or Cyrus James Khan). It's fun for them. It doesn't have to be a corporate or official thing.
However, here are a few benefits to my approach:
-
Working on this project now and polishing it up (helps me to iron out any present issues) - So that when I do port it for NEXT it will be a clean, stable, and bug free port that has been refined beforehand (and won't require extra bug fixing later).
-
Re-making the entire Overhaul from scratch provides opportunity for me to create a superior, fresh new take, so that it won't just be a 'RaYRoD's Overhaul' port that I port over, but an Overhaul of the current public 'Immersion Update'
-
Re-making the entire Overhaul from scratch has improved framerate, fixed all crashes and other random issues because of the fact that I (removed fragments) of very old and outdated problematic work, is bringing more variety, (I'm attempting to do 4-8 significantly unique biomes per biome type this time, as I want every biome to give you a unique vibe/feeling to it), alongside an overhaul of all other aspects of the mod in general.
-
The new version of the mod will be easier to update (with my new way of structing it). Instead of manually updating thousands of biomes, it should only take minutes to update it.
lime mesa
Yo, RaYRoD, how far can creature generation be improved and could they be made a lot more realistic depedning on the planet (such as lush having Earth-like creatures only)
urban perch
i know this is probably a touchy subject but are you going to release this awesome looking mod before NEXT launches and makes it impossible for anyone to use it without you suffering through conversion to the new baseline data?
or are you just planining that alrealdy with your update to how biomes are done
earnest moss
It’ll probably depend, apparently it runs on its own version of the game that should still be playable (if I’m interpreting it right) but that’s all pending NEXT isn’t a multiplayer persistent universe or anything else that requires they block any and all previous versions being used
So basically no one can know for sure
dreamy tulip
Hi, just seeing this.
Going to read the comments here and tke the time to reply.
@lime mesa Yes, it can be. I have overhauled this aspect of the game 5 different times.
The next version will have a newer creature generation overhaul, as there's still a lot more that I'd like to do with it.
dreamy tulip
@urban perch @earnest moss
Okay. Just to clear a few things up.
The Overhaul is a custom build of No Man's Sky. However, it is still only compatible at this point in time with Atlas Rises 1.38 (because that is the version that I am building it on). Even though I have ported all biomes and their content from every other released (and unreleased version of No Man's Sky from the past) - Including the PS4.
Also, (there is a misconception within the community) that updating a mod to an updated version of No Man's Sky is a difficult thing. It really isn't. Sure, there are mods that have not been updated since 2016. For the most part, that's because the authors just simply did not update it.
But like I've said (also in #4. in the post above bybb) - The new version of the mod will be easier to update (with my new way of structing it). Instead of manually updating thousands of biomes, it should only take minutes to update it. Working on a reboot from scratch to my fan project now also provides opportunity to lay the ground work for quick updating.
Now... about the whole "multiplayer persistant universe" idea. The game already is a persistent universe on Atlas Rises. Mods are just client sided, as the server isn't reading them.
The current speculation is that either a hardcoded check may be added that prevents mods being enabled in multiplayer, or that multiplayer with mods will remain the same as it currently is... "Client Sided". Currently, on the Atlas Rises build (users who use the same mods will have an identical experience together) and users who aren't using the same mods will see things non-identically in-game. However, it would be nice if we saw something dedicated for mod users (which I doubt will happen personally).
I also HelloGames cannot block people from using former updates to the game. It's just not possible. Considering that there are people who have pirated and portable builds of older updates as standalones. Also, they wouldn't need to do that anyway, as no older build is going to contain NEXT content or the new full multiplayer experience. Not to mention that what HelloGames is actually promoting is the opposite. They are promoting that all older released versions of the game's will actually be included, at-least on Xbox One.
And also... as a community, we shouldn't forget this. HelloGames supports mods, and are known to be inspired by them. It's also possible that HelloGames has even made new content while holding inspiration from what originally was modders ideas, and their own take on the game. (Notice how the new NEXT cover has ringed planets? Notice how that's supposedly a new feature?) That could be an example of that. There have also been other things. In short, HelloGames cares about their community and they listen to us... and it's irrelevant to them in regard to "How we do or don't choose to play the game..." because at the end of the day, we're supposed to just be fans of No Man's Sky... because that's what it's all about. This is another reason why I don't see them (going in the direction against mods), apart from the fact that we see them supporting it. - Heck, Sean even has retweeted mods (even some biomes that I handcrafted in the mix) with a heart eyes emojii. HelloGames has also liked stuff on my page before. They also show love to vanilla players screenshots, and nms fan art in general.
There are no sides
earnest moss
arent ringed planets a pre release promise? correct me if im wrong
junior furnace
modders inspire Hello Games is.......
dreamy tulip
Is........ ?
junior furnace
a lack of modesty, imo
earnest moss
also they can block previous versions, and you would have to get a cracked version, isnt that how WoW worked before they made their own legacy servers
supple wadi
Boiled down (& excluding what pertains specifically to your work RaY):
-Yes, many mods may break with Next, but updating them likely won't be difficult, just tedious. It's a matter of time & continued interest from the modder whether they update their work.
-The introduction of more robust multiplayer likely doesn't mean an end to mods, given current mods only affect those using them. This may remain the same, or simply mean they enable a check that prevents mods from being used in multiplayer.
-Whatever the impact Next has on NMS, modders will continue to work on modding the game & finding ways to continue & further mod the game.
dreamy tulip
Are you serious? @junior furnace
If you spend several years working on a game, and you come to find that a lot of people enjoy it, and are inspired from your game, and they also creatively make fan art out of it (because they are originally inspired from you) - and you find yourself appreciating user/community feedback, and even catering to certain community requested ideas, even derived from what was originally ideas fleshed out through game modifications.. how is that not inspirement?
There's nothing immodest about that.
In fact, it simply shows how much HelloGames cares about the community.
earnest moss
Yeah they’ll likely block using mods in multiplayer, as terrain edits and such will be bugged for non mod users and they need to focus on non modders before modders
dreamy tulip
Notice, that 'Basebuilding' became a thing, as a lot of users requested that.
Sean spoke of that verbally.
They were 'inspired' by community requests.
junior furnace
users requests are not modders ideas, are they ? HG listen to their community, for sure.
dreamy tulip
They are 'inspired' by fan art, by trailers, by fan content (and they simply appreciate it) and as a kind courtesy they continue to spoil us with new things.
supple wadi
I mean sometimes they are Ashker
dreamy tulip
Dude, forget the word "MODS" okay?
Because if this wasn't about "MODS"
You wouldn't be saying jack
supple wadi
Often modders will take user requests and realize them, which when popular enough, HG may later officially integrate in some capacity
Low flight is a clear example of this, I think
junior furnace
You must be right, I suppose
dreamy tulip
I simply see modding as not being essential, but optional, and merely a different way of playing the same masterpiece by HelloGames. I also see it no differently as fan art, or just art. Some people like to paint creative fan art, in inspiration of HelloGames. Others differently. Some people in-game.
supple wadi
It was a user request, modders realized it in the game for awhile, then HG eventually integrated it themselves to a degree with Atlas Rises
dreamy tulip
And you should too.
Because that is how HelloGames sees it.
Promoting against that Idea is actually promoting against HelloGames perspective.
Which in my opinion is immodest.
junior furnace
Thank you @dreamy tulip ! You made my day, again
dreamy tulip
👍
supple wadi
🤔 I mean I wouldn't go that far as to say knocking fan work is knocking Hello Games' perspective on it
earnest moss
I can post my lewd sonic nms fanfic i made as a meme and maybe they'll include that in game 
dreamy tulip
What I am saying is that... HelloGames has no bias (to the different creative aspects that people choose to play No Man's Sky).
They specifically declared, on various accounts... "We won't tell you how to play the game" - And we see the fruit/evidence of that displayed in how they have been known to appreciate fan art in any form/style/kind.
supple wadi
Nah, I see that, I just think fan work can stand well enough on its own, without implicit or explicit support from the creators
dreamy tulip
And it's not fair for some people to acknoweldge everything in that statement and weed out "MODS"
Because, modding in a way, is a form of art (and often, at times, a lot of creative expression is dispensed into modified pieces)
gloomy prairie
ok
earnest moss
to be fair this is the modding channel
dreamy tulip
and HelloGames has been known to appreciate/be inspired by those pieces.
There are some people who go around implying, passively, that modding no man's sky is disrespectful to HelloGames and that we all should be playing vanilla.
That is silly. Even HelloGames (doesn't look at it that way) - Instead they appreciate creative effort and promote it.
junior furnace
I do think that, indeed
supple wadi
To be fair, they probably say the same of fanfic
dreamy tulip
Even before the game's release, they said themselves, that they want players to be able to mod the game. Similar to minecraft.
Sean himself said this.
Now, I'm not saying that we all aren't entitled to our own opinions... but I'm merely saying, that HelloGames supports it. I support it. And it's simply not cool for some people to knock others for liking to express creativity in the form of "mods" when it is literally just another style of fan art.
And then try to play coy about it and say "Well, I'm doing this for HelloGames"
When it's not.
Because HelloGames supports it.
earnest moss
he said he thought it was a little imoddest to say mods have a direct influence on development, no one said mods are bad
relax
dreamy tulip
I'm totally calm.
Just writing a dissertation.
And that is exactly how I took it.
supple wadi
Ashker, I think it depends on how the modder conducts themselves. If any of us were to go around saying our mods are "fixing" different parts of the game, I can see where that sentiment is coming from. But I don't think saying improving performance or such is the same sort of thing.
dreamy tulip
And as I mentioned earlier, it has had a direct influence on them.
And that's not an immodest thing to say.
You know what would be immodest?
If a modder went around bragging saying... "Hellogames, you took my idea!" Which is silly.
No, we appreciate that they take the time to listen to us
And we express grattitude about it
Because that is what communities do
We listen to each other, help each other, and express creativity with eachother.
Instead of creating a divide, out of personal bias.
brazen pumice
omg chill please
dreamy tulip
Everything is chill here.
A person can speak on 'touchy matters', w/o being tense about it. My day is going great. Thank you.
earnest moss
youre writing a novel because you misinterpreted what someone said
not the chillest
brazen pumice
my day is goig great too i had such ,a good poo
supple wadi
I mean Ashker did clarify and say they think mods are disrespectful to HG so, lol
dreamy tulip
Firstly, I did not misinterpret what he said. He took what I said out of context, as did you.
Now, I naturally write a lot (no matter the scenario, we all know that).
And what did I do? Write a lot as the usual, and refute that flawed statement.
brazen pumice
mods are good but like i dont think mods influence hg at all
theyre gonna do what they want regardless
dreamy tulip
These past two years have proved the opposite.
brazen pumice
not to say that your mod hasnt been recognised by them
i just think that it's HG's game and all the stuff they promised before is coming back u know?
pallid tartan
The way I see it, mods don’t inspire the devs as much as the community does. Sure, mods probably do. But then again mods are largely inspired by the community (an example being low flight), the very same source that inspires mods. Also, a large amount of mods are in fact inspired by the devs, such as many mods seeking to give the game an e3 aesthetic. I’d say the wider community inspires the devs and modders. Sure the mods inspire the devs to a degree, but I think the devs inspire the modders more in a lot of circumstances.
verbal cairn
Ray did you say your mods influenced hello games?
dreamy tulip
In fact, HelloGames, or the Ceo of HelloGames retweeting (modded fan art) with a heart eyes emojii, (and in similar ways at other times) shows that they are influenced in appreciate of it in the very least.
In regard to development, that's different, but even history has proven the influence of mods in development to be true.
Now, why can I say this?
Because it is literally just another community thing
brazen pumice
i just think its broad to say they infleucne them you get me
dreamy tulip
And fits in the exact same category as community feedback, expression, fan art, and requests.
brazen pumice
like ive had ideas in youtube videos about the game
earnest moss
appreciation isnt influence to be fair
brazen pumice
but i wouldnt say me saying i want this in game in a youtube video of mine (which got retweeted by hg) directly infleucned the development
dreamy tulip
Look at low flight for example.
Lowflight was one of the first mods that was ever released for No Man's Sky. So many people requested it. It was added.
Ringed planets could be another example.
earnest moss
People where begging for low flight before the mod, the mod was inspired by the fans
verbal cairn
^
brazen pumice
also ringed planets was spoken about before release if i remember
dreamy tulip
Regardless, it's a community thing.
pallid tartan
Both the devs and the modders share the community as a source of inspiration for their product. I’d be inclined to believe modders and devs work to supply the demand created by the community, just in very different ways. Modders didn’t inspire ringed planets; the community wanted for them and both modders and devs worked on it in their own ways.
earnest moss
and you keep bringing up ringed planets i swear we saw them in pre release trailers but im not sure
verbal cairn
We didn't really
dreamy tulip
No, we didn't see them in pre-release trailers.
brazen pumice
it was spokeb about if i remember rightyl
verbal cairn
Mhm
brazen pumice
he said a variety of different planets n people saaid about ringed planets and shit and i think he just did the sean thing and say yes ni🅱🅱a
pallid tartan
@brazen pumice yes Sean did say they’d be in the game in an interview
dreamy tulip
It was spoken about pre-release, he said that "they can have rings" but didn't make release.
brazen pumice
thereugothenahahahhahahahahlol
earnest moss
most of what the fans have asked for and modded where intended features that didnt make the deadline
bet
dreamy tulip
Now, that is also not to say (that this desire in the community) also further stirred up from the resurface of it in mods didn't help to spart that.
earnest moss
and are slowly being added
brazen pumice
rayrod
modding is very good we can all agree on this but the work of one does not always affect another okay?
dreamy tulip
It's also not a matter of "what first" "who first"
The point of this is simply... (HelloGames is inspired by the community in total and there is no divide")
pallid tartan
@brazen pumice very true
dreamy tulip
Which is what I have been saying from the very beginning.
brazen pumice
okay coolio
autumn moth
modding discourse
dreamy tulip
That's what this conversation is about.
pallid tartan
@dreamy tulip I’d also say this relationship works both ways, with the devs inspiring the community also
urban perch
@dreamy tulip read your response that is more or less wshat i hoped.. thats grea tto h ear. ok keep pluigging away ill silently cheer you on
dreamy tulip
It's not centered on "HelloGames grabbed ideas from modders" - No, it's never that. But have they shown to be inspired by mod authors work? Absolutely.
Does that imply that they did it because of modders objectively? No. Does that mean that it's not possible? No.
Now, why would they ever be inspired by mod authors work? Simply, because it's community fan work.
It's really that simple.
Modifications is a form of fan content.
Just like anything else.
pallid tartan
Wait who’s this addressed to?
brazen pumice
gay
dreamy tulip
I'm providing context to the preface of this entire conversation.
pallid tartan
Gotcha
dreamy tulip
It's addressed to everyone here, who has been partaking in it
Because it kinda spinned outside the scope of what was being originally discussed.
And a lot of misunderstandings sprang forth.
Also, @earnest moss
From the very start I said quote: "It's possible". in which Asker took it objectively, and called the idea of it immodest.
In which my response is pretty much this... "There is nothing immodest, in entertaining the possibility that mod authors work potentially played a part in inspiring HelloGames and the direction that they take the game in development".
Which is not an objective statement. Do I think that it's a possibility? Yeah, absolutely. You see... "Ringed planets" may have been referenced pre-release. Low flight may be a thing that people have requested since release, before the mod that did it. But that also does not imply, that "the flood of mods that realized this mechanic" didn't also play a part in bringing attention to that requested feature alongside everything else.
earnest moss
it's possible, and i wasnt even saying i agree with him
but i dont think this is a hill to spend 30 minutes dying on
pallid tartan
How about let’s let modders mod and devs dev without worrying about who inspires who, since whatever is happening is working?
dreamy tulip
Modders/Devs - In many cases can be the same thing.
Well, my response to him, the logic that I proposed in refute (to that misunderstanding of what I initially said on my part) was a contextual, accurate refute that could be spoken objectively... as he misinterpertated what I said, and declared it to be "immodest" objectively.
It's all a community thing... which really isn't a difficult thing to grasp. Yet there was an unnecessary debate about it.
But yeah, The original topic was about this - Vanilla or Modded: We are a community of people who are all fans of No Man's Sky, and although we may play the game in different ways... HelloGames does not have a divide in how we do or don't play the game. Why should we? They've explicitly said at numerous times: "We won't tell you how to play the game". At the end of the day, similar to what @pallid tartan said earlier... it's the community itself that is interested in No Man's Sky, that HelloGames listens to w/o bias... (contrary to some people who passive-aggressively, propose the idea that expressing creativity through mods is disrespectful to HelloGames (meanwhile contrary to that behaviour, HelloGames supports it, has shown to support it, and Sean has even explicitly said that they want it to be a thing (like Minecraft)... and by passively (proposing the idea that 'mods are an offence towards HelloGames' which it clearly isn't - that really in actuality is an offence towards the modding community, which also happens to be a part of the official No Man's Sky community, and ultimately ends up being an attack on the NMS community... and there is nothing noble about that."
junior furnace
I don't attack the NMS community, and never will. I've been supporting the game since day one. My point was not about modding, everyone plays the way they want, for sure. this is exactly what NMS is about. I was just pointing the la ck of humilty of thinking that messing up with the files to "improve " the game was inspiring for HG.
For sur,e HG listen to their community. I hope they will always do so.
But I'm pretty convinced that HG have a very clear view of what they want the game to be.
They may ad stuff the community is asking for, if that fits their artistic view.
I don't think that fanart/artistic view of the modders influence HG artistic view.
And btw, I really do prefer vanilla because of the "original taste of NMS" as HG gave it to us. There is a lot of stuff to discover out there, but things have a price. And I think modding gives awesoeness to easily. But this is just MY point of view
dreamy tulip
Yes, I understand what you are saying (but, going back to what you were pointing out earlier).
"They may ad stuff the community is asking for, if that fits their artistic view." <---- That would be an act of kindness, derived from being influenced from the community (in which any artist, just like a group of artists such as HelloGames would only act on if it supports their artistic view).
It is totally humble to acknowledge the possibility of that, in the same way, that it is totally humble to acknowledge the possibility of a dev team looking at talented coders/modders/artists who change their masterpiece of a game in a particular way, or create content for it, in inspiration from them and then in return create something officially for the game inspired by modding community ideas that fit their artistic view. They also have the right to do that. It's their game.
They are the same thing. Fan inspiration.
" the lack of humilty of thinking that messing up with the files to "improve " the game was inspiring for HG."
Look at Skyrim. A person was making modded content, to the point that it was like they could have been official DLC's and content for the game and the dev's were inspired by that person's quality content and grafted them into the team.
There is nothing "immodest" or mysterious or unnatural for a team of talented people, being inspired by a community, or specific talented people.
Teams are formed out of people with specific skillsets, and although HelloGames is extremely talented, there are also talented people out there as well. And again, this is not to say that "this is what they are doing" - But you are OBJECTIVELY saying that it's not humble to entertain that idea, when it is perfectly humble when you look at it this way: *HelloGames is talented. Hello Games loves their community. HelloGames is inspired by community feedback at times, and they always keep things filtered within the scope of their artistic view when working on their game. We as a community, no matter what we do, HelloGames could see it... and (we simply give back to them what they've given to us) whether they see it or not. It's all community thing and we are all playing a part on a bigger, more polished, game coming to fruition.
I mean, this is amazing! A game company that is so interactive passionately with their community.
junior furnace
I see what you are trying to do, but I must say you missed my point, again. Nvm
dreamy tulip
I'm trying to reason with you. That's all.
If there is something that I missed, by all means.. feel free to share it with me. I am totally unbiased and open to seeing things from all perspectives.
west notch
hi rayrod. I love your mod but i need some help. I'd want to gain more credits per discovery and selling things, like a multiplier of money, because i think vanilla is too slow and "Everything is free" is too easy
is there a way to get that?
supple wadi
not RaY but do you have the fauna/flora analyzer upgrades?
west notch
yes, i know how they work and what they give, but i'm starting new games all the time and the fact that i have to upgrade those everytime i play is a little bit annoying
i remember having some troubles with the Cheat Engine in the past, with earlier versions of overhaul (months ago) so i don't know if i should use it
supple wadi
er...why are you starting new games so much?
dreamy tulip
Hi, @west notch. The creature discovery and economy is slightly increased than vanilla. However, cheat engine is a viable solution
rotund vine
Swamp biomes 😍
lime mesa
I'd really love to see volcano planets similar to lego world's volcano planets but in NMS. A planet with massive volcano's spewing lava, a smoky atmosphere and charred buildings. I would love to see this officially in NEXT and, if it isn;t in NEXT, was wondering, RaYRoD, could this even be implented with a mod?
weary magnet
Would a lovely modder be willing to extract a load of images for me? 😬 😝
I need all images from the following places found in the guide book section of NMS
- Raw materials
- Crafted Products
- Technology
- Portal Glyphs
Screenshots just ain't high quality enough
steel crypt
Some people have played around with lava stuff, but the extent of the volcano situation is probably currently out of the scope of modding. Well, in a practical sense. Basically, it would be hard to do IF possible.
obsidian tree
You could kinda fake it by modelling a volcano and importing it into the game. It wouldn't blend in with the ground texture correctly though and could cause other problems. Plus because mesh collisions are still just not working (seriously, wtf), you wouldn't get a nice collision for it and walking up it would be weird.
If HG implemented it, pretty much all the systems (other than actual lava flow) to make it work already exist
warm thistle
Damn dude, A1. Looks beautiful
dreamy tulip
Thanks, @warm thistle!
dreamy tulip
Thanks, @lime mesa. This is for the upcoming reboot. 😃
dreamy tulip
It's not finished yet... but will upload a video when it's ready. I am still creating weather for this biome in real time
To get the proper style, that fits for this place
And I still need to finish adjusting the marsh
For the water flora
Which will consist of sticks, fallen trees, plants, and grass, floating on the stagnant, murky water (with a variety of custom RGB swamp water palettes that I made in real time)
Just finished the swamp water
lime mesa
That swamp biome looks epic, keep up the good work Ray 😄 @dreamy tulip
dreamy tulip
Thanks, @lime mesa 😃
weary magnet
Great job RaYRoD 😄
pallid tartan
@dreamy tulip would it be possible for you to package the terrain overhaul in the immersion update as a separate mod?
dreamy tulip
@pallid tartan That won't be a thing sorry.
The terrain overhaul requires the biomes and their rules and terrain rules to work properly.
sacred trout
@dreamy tulip This is looking really good. I've been looking at the recent screenshots and discussions here, and I'd like to ask you if you are planning on making more variation for the exotic/synthetic biomes for this version
dreamy tulip
Sure, I will work on that more this time.
dreamy tulip
Already did it @lime mesa
That's an alpine biome, I now have 82 unique variations of it
Here is one of them:
https://youtu.be/9mQBh61_8uE
lime mesa
Haha hell yeah. Can’t wait for reboot!
I’m going to need to run two instances of nms once next is out
dreamy tulip
Haha 😛
lime mesa
You will be better off playing NEXT tbh, I have a feeling that the overhaul will take a while to upgrade to NEXT again
supple wadi
🤷 You can do both
Just set aside your Atlas Rises installation and then install the NMS Next version
dreamy tulip
🤦
supple wadi
I still have NMS Adrift (my name for pre-Foundation) versions installed alongside Path Finder versions installed
dreamy tulip
I've said this a lot, but working on MODS now provides opportunity for ease of updating
Depending on how you make the mod
This "Aren't you afraid of NEXT breaking all mods" rhetoric needs to go
It's pointless
And also 100% pure speculation
lime mesa
supple wadi
I mean especially when even if it does break some:
-We'll get around to updating them ASAP if we're still around.
-You can have multiple versions of the game installed.
dreamy tulip
Heh, sorry if that came off harsh. I just get asked the same question like 15x every three hours every day.
It gets a bit overwhelming at times
It's not you
But yeah, what @supple wadi said is right
supple wadi
Like, if you use mods, don't worry about it, let us modders worry about that. We'll sort it out as long as we're around.
dreamy tulip
When Atlas Rises came, nearly every component of my old mod broke
I updated it in one day
However, in some cases, not every mod breaks. But the way that I am rebuilding the mod (will result in updating various things being narrowed down to minutes)
supple wadi
(don't expect that from me I'll be checking out Next 😛)
dreamy tulip
Can't wait for NEXT as well hehe
supple wadi
Also personally, I tend to wait till the dust settles, since honestly that's just easier for everyone involved imo
Especially if they pull another Atlas Rises rapidfire hotfix approach on us
dreamy tulip
Yeah, fair enough
I am making modularized templates (with few structs in them) in a certain heirarchy
supple wadi
But every modder will tackle it differently
dreamy tulip
That link to other components of the mod source
But can make a significant impact in-game
Which reduces a huge workload, rather than updating individual biomes
And also makes certain things more flexible for quick mix and matching for different purposes
And will also make updating quicker
supple wadi
I've been sorting out ideas for organizing files & some more modular approaches during this downtime between updates too
dreamy tulip
Nicee
supple wadi
Lot of my thinking has been how much to compile vs. how much to keep separate
dreamy tulip
I'm handcrafting mini biome templates
With different rules
For different purposes this time.
I still am working with object files as usual for a lot of things
But, it'll be a bit different
supple wadi
I've put off what I was going to work on, since much of it may be addressed or changed with Next.
Nevertheless, if not, I can get to implementing the ideas in relatively short order.
Another part to it is that they may introduce another aspect to what I'm looking to adjust, or something which may streamline it. Will be interesting to see.
dreamy tulip
Sweet. What would you like to see the most??
supple wadi
For the PC end, modding tools and further optimization. 😛
But in terms of game content, more intricate systems that play off of each other to create surprising moments.
lime mesa
how does @dreamy tulip not work at HG already
i'd love to play mods, but i just prefer to play the game in it's original 😦
that's just how i am 😦
past mulch
Because he doesnt want to probably
Also same lol
I think his mod gives great results but I always end up playing vanilla
weary magnet
Is there a way I could get into the PS4 files?
autumn moth
there was this post somewhere that showed all the text files for nms but no pics of that's what ur lookin for
dreamy tulip
Hi, so I am handcrafting models based off of community favorited ship seeds, or random community based starship screenshots and allowing them to spawn within the in-game universe as additional custom ship models. I can also make a buildable 'starship swapper' utilizing seeds. If anyone has a memorable or favorite ship screenshot... feel free to share it with me.
Procedural ship models will still be around, but I am also replicating popular ship seeds from online databases and converting them into custom ship models alongside doing custom ship models (derived from in-game assets this time)
This will also help to expand ship beauty and variety. Suppose I do a few hundred of them and add them additionally as ai.
Here is an example of a seeds database (Porting the Database To In-game):
https://www.nmseeds.club/Seeds/Search/ship/fighter/
dreamy tulip
These seeds will do for now:
https://i.imgur.com/Kfyqpki.png
Just created an individual custom model out of this one:
https://i.imgur.com/4HG2ozG.jpg
magic lava
I’ve come to the conclusion @dreamy tulip is torturing me to make me buy a gaming pc
dreamy tulip
Porting over the official 'Balari V' palettes, alongside the rest of the palettes shown in this video:
cyan oracle
lmao, Rayrod, why do I get the feeling you're going to be working on your overhaul for 1.38 till the minute the NEXT update drops on July 24th? At this point, anything you're working on and/or still haven't released will only be enjoyed by a small handful of people at best.. Players don't usually check for new updates, just new mods.. Majority of players with our mods are using your Overhaul v10 beta and my MorShips v1.0 that was released last December.. if they haven't found the new updates in the weeks/months they've been out there, the chances that they'll find something just a few days before the NEXT update is slim to none.. TBH, I'd be surprised if anyone is checking for new/updated mods within a week of NEXT's arrival because you may end up enjoying the mod and losing it in less than a week..
but I get it.. I'm still messing around with NMS because I can and it's fun..
I'd also like to say you never cease to amaze me.. as much as that's true tho, I think you've already achieved some pretty realistic environments that you'll struggle to further improve should you keep trying..
@dreamy tulip I think I get what you're doing with the Vanilla ship seeds, just not sure why... I get the variety factor, but (JMO) it takes away the thrill of the hunt for the ship and having that many ships to go thru will likely deter most from going through it at all..
nonetheless, if this is something you want to do, I'm sure you've got the coding skills to write a script that monitors and records newly acquired ship seeds to a log file/database so all you have to do is fly around acquiring new ships; adding to the list of seeds from nms communities..
it was cool when you did this with the pre-order ships because not everyone has access to those and they're not in the game.. but regular vanilla ships generated from the proc parts? It just seems like all it's doing is saving me from having to go to someone's coordinates and/or hunting for it myself.. but then again, if anyone does use this feature, they'll be so close to NEXT that maybe they won't have the time go hunting for the ship.. so that's cool in itself
supple wadi
I was kind of thinking similarly re: vanilla ship seeds @cyan oracle
Tbh this is, I think, one of those differences in approach & direction between RaY and some others among us. RaY's going for a specific aesthetic direction with variation to it, albeit where there's a certain degree of consistency in what looks appealing and at times also wild.
At least to me, that's a challenging aesthetic direction to balance that risks leaning a little too heavily in the "looks appealing" area, since that's kind of just a default aim to go after, even subconsciously. One of the perks of proc-gen is letting go of that a little, and allowing for the machine to work its own weirdness into the curated mix. Which, admittedly, RaY is still trying to do with their work, while simply guiding certain aspects a little more.
Like I said, a difficult direction to balance.
cyan oracle
I tip my hat to @plucky pollen .. freighters aren't easy! The hangar scene is a global reference, not something you can tailor to a specific freighter.. Scaling the hangar reference is crucial for a fully functional freighter (including base).. and nesting the hangar scene within the model so as to hide it, but keep the exit points exterior to the collision model is even more of a pain..
cyan oracle
wh0a.. I just used a black hole in Creative mode.. I'm surprised it let me in the system TBH.. all I did was set my save's "showblackholes" to true in the raw JSON editor..
dreamy tulip
@cyan oracle Hey, just waking up here.
What Gmr_Leon said is correct.
I'll elaborate on what I'm doing further.
I understand what you are saying, and I figured that some people might think of it that way... but I'll elaborate on why that is not the case or an issuee.
The same kind of scenario applies with the creatures in this case.
Okay, so, the vanilla game has various 'procedural creatures' that are comprised of various different sub creatures. So, for example, the spider creature model (might have the possibility to be craboid in appearence), it could also be a praying mantis in appearence, it could also be alien in appearence, or various other different kind of creature models. So, the way that HelloGames designed the creature appearences is... they made (many, many individual creature models that were pre-set to look like a pure breed of a creature) and then blended other creatures in with it, with proc rules to select any number of parts. Now, this is good. It really can allow the possibility of "alienish" type creatures. However, there is a downside to the nature of this generation. Very rarely, will you ever see a kind of creature that is a purish type breed or (one that singularly represents an intended creature type) - due to certain in-game settings that are forcing it to always pick parts from different animals.
So, my approach in that aspect was...
To create a few methods for creature generation, which are:
- Keep the ability for procedural creature appearences in the vanilla game has the majority
- Assemble hundreds of pure breed ( creature models), like "Earth-like crabs", "Hogs", "Praying mantis" "NPC looking geks out of grunts", "Earth like/E3 style whales" "Various pre-release style, earth like - alienish whales" that tend to be so rare, that they might feel like entirely new models (without all that extra stuff thrown on top of them)
- Assembling creature models that are mostly, purish in breed - while still keeping various procedural elements to the models.
With the creatures, in the same way as with the ships.... what I am doing is, rather than taking a procedural game and making it "fully handcrafted" - I am taking very loose rules, and creating a balance between consistent beauty - and consistent procedural generation (with hundreds of unique approaches) in different areas with the game.
Which is also what HelloGames did heavily pre-release.
Like, for example... (pre-release HelloGames handcrafted procedural biomes). Well, in vanilla... the biomes are also handcrafted, and procedural. They simply chose what will or will not get loaded. However, you can create rules for this game to say (what to do most frequently, or what is and isn't okay, or do everything but this right here).
So, with ship seeds... since that is a community based contribution: I'll elaborate a bit on my approach with that as well
cyan oracle
that's not how ship seed generation works tho
cyan oracle
you can't add in more ships to the 20 ship seeds the system would generate.. you can up it to 30 in the globals, but that still creates only 30 seeds that can be used.. when the ship is selected from AISPACESHIPMANAGER, it's takes one of these seeds available to the system..
if even if it didn't.. how do you differentiate from a predefined seeded ship and a proc gen ship when the predefined seeded ship was a proc gen seed to begin with?
dreamy tulip
What I am doing is - taking vanilla ship models (looking at seeds as concepts) and handcrafting/replicating those seeded ship models, turning them into custom models to get loaded as additional ships - But the majority of all ships will be procedural ships. Also, even the seeded ships have been set a bit looser to not always be the same; thus creating a balance and more of a likelyhood of a user finding their seeded ship (potentially, more frequently, since they might've only seen it once) - but always slightly different - and the vast majority of ships will be the vanilla style procedural ships.
I am not aiming it to be system dependant. Meaning, in the same way that you've ported 3rd party ships before, and that I've worked on a few custom ship models out of in-game assets, and some that we did, that they are not seed dependant. Those "seeded replications" are no longer seed dependant.
Turning seeded ships into additional ship models with proc elements, in a universe that's mostly full fledgged procedural
So that, this additional model that gets loaded will always remain the same or close in appearence (with that kind of style) - but the game might say "Okay, you can or cannot select these or those combination of parts or details) - But you MUST always look like this seed that was envisioned in the creative process of assembling this ship seeded model out of in-game assets (despite what different parts you might select, but I am determing the guidelines of what additional parts could or could not be selected, per each individual ship seed - depending on whether or not it might be fitting for that users shared seed)
Hey, Krem - I just saw your very first message from before. Now, I know that this entire (re-paste) isn't relevant to you and I think that you saw it before, but this is my response:
https://justpaste.it/516hw
And thanks for the compliment dude
Also, I have been getting a lot of requests for the new reboot.
But I am also taking the time to restructure all things (with a new strategic mechanism of my own) - that will create the possiiblity for quick updating.
It reduces the need to update thousands of individual componets, which could takes hours to minutes.
Alongside - being bug free, a fresh new take (a lot closer to what I envision it to be), and performance friendly
So that when I do port it to NEXT or the PS4, it will be a proper port (and I won't have mixed feelings about it then)
But yeah, It's a creative learning process for me and it's a lot of fun (whether an update hits or not) I enjoy the research.
cyan oracle
in regards to the ship stuff, IDK what you're saying because my brain won't break free from how I believe the game to work and behave, it would be nice to see it and get a better understanding before NEXT hits..
and that's the important thing.. you're having fun with it.. cause in a couple of weeks, this all may be a moot point, at least temporarily if not rendered unnecessary or inapplicable in NEXT..
dreamy tulip
Sure, we could talk about it more, or I could show you some stuff if you want. What I am doing (my methods) consist of different techniques with HelloGame's engine and different approaches that I've learned from working on various things in the overhaul or biome creating (where I have hundreds of unique approaches to making biomes) - I've been learning to creatively tell the game in key areas that are restricted to do more, or creating my own kind of rules for things.
It's a rabbit hole
Gmr_Leon and I were sort of talking about this in a different chat for an hour
Well, a strategic method that I am utilizing for (structing my new biomes) - Has been proven from the past several large updates to be easy to update - especially, with it containing only a few structs.
It's a bit complicated to explain
Because there's a lot different in comparison to what I was doing before
But it has it's benefits
@cyan oracle
https://i.imgur.com/qZMOIKR.png
By the by, that's pretty neat. Is that a death star as a station in your pic?
cyan oracle
I get all that, but where I'm hung up on is the call to "\MODELS\COMMON\SPACECRAFT#CUSTOM\FIGHTERS\SEEDS\0x83bb68c3b3ebd471\FIGHTER_PROC.SCENE.MBIN" from the AISPACESHIPMANAGER will claim one of the available ships in the system and be assigned a different seed of it's own; like my custom 3rd party models do in MorShips
as a freighter, not station
dreamy tulip
Nice, did you make that?
Well, port that, I mean
Okay, when you say, a different seed, do you mean a different color?
Yeah, if you could be elaborate a bit more (because I'm not sure that I follow yet what you are wondering) - unless it's about the color (since I remember that you were doing proc colors) before based off of seeds.
cyan oracle
when I say a different seed, I mean the value the game assigns to the save file along with the file path from the AISPACESHIPMANAGER
and thanks, Found the Deathstar on Clara.io and did the rest in Blender.. yea
dreamy tulip
Sweet 👍
cyan oracle
Take the HG-X for example.. if I give it a different seed value, it will be a different color.. but different decals could be included if added to the scene/descriptor
but the HG-X itself would still take up a ship holder in any given system's available proc gen..
dreamy tulip
That's my favorite ship that you did :P
From in-game assets. But yeah, it's my favorite.
Okay, I'll respond to your statement now.
cyan oracle
thanks 😃 it's mine too
dreamy tulip
Ah yeah, well, you can add the seeded ships to the manager
The game determines the likelyhood of assets getting loaded in that file by how the amount of times that scene is getting called in the list
So, if you want it to be mostly proc ships (though you have a bunch of other assets in there)
Just duplicate the scenes that are being called for the original proc ships a few times
So, say, that I have 4-5 seeded ships allowed to get called in there
But I want it to mostly be proc ships - and those seeded ships less frequent
I can simply add duplicates of the vanilla scenes
Like maybe 5 each of the vanilla
cyan oracle
that's more work than you need to do
dreamy tulip
So, the game will have more of a likelyhood of choosing the vanilla scenes.
It is indeed an approach.
Some files it's the only approach
Is there another way that you might do so with ships specifically?
cyan oracle
you can set the proc gen to more common frequency and the seeded ships less frequent.. I can't remember the file off the top of my head, but it's how I made "MoarExotics"
I'll be back in a bit.. wife just brought me dinner, gunna hang out with her before she has to go to bed since she's working again 😦
cyan oracle
there's 3 entries towards the bottom of the global, I believe they're either different economy types or different race control, IDK.. but in the vanilla settings, you can see why the shuttle type ship appears more often than any other
bbiab
dreamy tulip
Oh, I see. I haven't been tinkering in the global with what I am doing.
The weightclass data, yea?
Yeah, I used to mess with that a lot on PF - But that's a good idea for a different approach (in regard for system specific ship generation). Thanks for the tip/reminder
toxic goblet
Hey, Ray. How much logic can you mod into the game core?
E.g. control alterations and the like.
Or, that is changing the game's base logic instead of just tweaking params and the like.
dreamy tulip
Hey, well... (scripted events are sort of possible, but not something that we as a community have worked on so much). But overall this question is really a rabbit hole (as there's a lot that could be elaborated on and explained) - Here is something from when I wrote a bit about the game's current potential.
The game's engine is currently only utilizing about 1% of its potential in vanilla.
Personally, my intent (with a few rare exceptions) has always been to keep things like vanilla (but in the style of a cross between particular pre-release, 'vanilla' builds with modernizations)... that were so drastically different in so many ways) compared to what currently is... which also is an immense amount of work to do. While at the same time enhancing specific aspects of the vanilla game that have been heavily downgraded or could simply be pushed much further (without cost) (in the current game) - Compared to what was.
In other words, I don't like to do things just to do it, just because it's possible... but rather carefully, with a goal/vision/purpose/concept at heart, and in mind.
I could give various examples, of how things currently set up within the game engine's countless mechanism's and various different approaches for the in-game generation, (alongside nearly every aspect of the game in general) being drastically toned down to the lowest possible, basic, notch imaginable. I'm hoping that NEXT changes this as a standard, but even then... (this game has near-infinite potential). The base game is a literal groundwork for near infinite potential. Even with what is currently here right now (and has always been here) since the very first release.
A few short examples (out of countless) examples that I could flood you with, in regard to in-game variety would be:
There are 4 (unique cave biomes) that HelloGames made that are dormant and have been present since 1.0 (and they are functional like the current one used) - But instead, only one is used for all biomes. The same scenario applies to underwater biomes. The resource plants (like thamium, zinc, platinum, etc...) are currently using 1 model each (that happen to proc models, and all with a few procedural parts) - But the ones that were used pre-release, was simply renamed to name's like plant 1, plant 2, plant 3, plant 4, and are functional and dormant... but all have hundreds of unique parts (far more than the current ones).
The terrain generation is also mostly repeated. The vanilla biomes like for the lush biome as an example only uses the "mediumtree" proc model four times, rather than making use of "Largetree", "Smalltree" and various other functional (but distinctly unique trees) in the same directory. There are hundreds of procedural rocks (fitting for each biome) that are dormant, alongside countless other assets that are dormant, always have been dormant and are functional, fully. The vanilla biomes (Lush, Toxic, Radioactive, Scorched, Frozen, Dead, Barren, and Weird) could be duplicated just to add unique terrain rules. Individual biomes can have unique terrain rules that also works in coherence with the game's voxel generation file (but in each biome) file the terrain rules are all set to be identical (duplicated) and also the countless aspects of the terrain rule's potential within the biome file's alone is actually turned off and dormant. Various atmospheric related things are turned off. It's possible to have unique cloud densities per biome, dynamic weather, in-game dynamic depth of field that rolls in with dynamic storms, including lots of unused weather types (that were used pre-release) - including unused weather types of currently unused weather, unused creature models, the creature data could have hundreds and hundreds (an infinite amount of unique rules) - but instead they are all using one.
All of the ecology tables are not being used that get loaded into biomes. The sky settings (and visuals are toned down and were heavily used more-so pre-release) and also pre-release, the AI rules were far more expanded and it can still be expanded (but are only using 1 rule) for flyby's for example; thus resulting in 3-4 flyby's of the same kind of style every time. It goes and on and on.
(Not saying this to be negative) - But these are only a few of the (truly countless) benefits of being capable of replicating what used to be 'vanilla' from the inside out and the outside in. (to be able to work on a replication of what 'used to actually be a 'vanilla' build of No Mans's Sky) when the game's engine was using a lot more of it's potential, but not even close to all of it back then (remember, infinite potential, yea?) - But now it's like only 1% of that potential used.
It requires an in-depth understanding (of what is really going on in the game's files, and in the way that the game is set to work *more than the average modder or data miner might know, as this area of research is radically exclusive and would LITERALLY require dispensing a gigantic portion of your life to putting the pieces together - just to put that out there) - to have a fairly good perspective of (what was going on compared to what is going on now, compared to what could be going on) - that we'll hopefully see fleshed out to a greater extent.
However, from an external perspective (we can see that) simply by looking at the trailers, off the record footage, ign footage - and comparing it to what we see now.
However, here is an interesting fact: Some of us have seen the trailers hundreds of times: I can 100% guarantee that no person (including myself) has noticed every key detail or has come to fully understand in-depth everything that was going on like an explosion of content/features/mechanics in our faces all at once and also, the more that one looks at the trailers - They will absolutely notice things that they've missed the first 100-200 times (because HelloGames is freaking amazing).
At the same time it's mindblowing - But the traces of (nearly all of these things are tucked away/or likely not yet found) within the files or executable and can be re-realized if one is willing to take on the maddening task of doing so.
A downside to that is... (Many of the things that 'was' which now is not) was vaguely explained, if it was even mentioned to begin with - Because there are countless things that were going on, that have never been mentioned *which either have been (a) forgotten, or (b) never discovered yet. - But an upside to one who is willing to study (whatever needs to be studied from every source obtainable) - is that given, if that person is capable... they can learn why it was how it was and re-create what was and port it to what now is.
Also, not to sound egotistical (and props to HelloGame's for making such a masterpiece of a game - though I do make 3rd party content at times for the work that I do) - The reason why the game is becoming more and more beautiful with a greater extent of their engine's potential being fleshed out is because every day is a step closer of 'What was' while keeping intact what is. An ultimate port of No Man's Sky (every build in one) - Plus fragments of builds (eventually, fully fleshed builds) that were never seen before.
It sounds backward. But with this game, it's strange: moving backward would actually be moving forward for the most part. Because (contrary to popular speculation) - The pre-release builds were actually like what we have, but on steroids.... minus recent optimizations and new awesome content. It's not only a more painterly, artistic style that was present.... the entire game was overhauled, (contained a massive amount of content and mechanics being used), it performed better, and even had more graphical aesthetics being (utilized) - minus certain improvements... as we all know that AA and motion blur was not used or possibly not even implemented back then.
There are numerous awesome improvements and awesome content that HelloGames has created since then, and also post-release.
Even though I think that (new and flashy content is awesome) - I see that as toppings on what 'could be' an even more beautiful masterpiece of a cake, waiting to be made, with the ingredients that have always, always, been present but just laying there.
I am very excited for what is to come, but it's even more exciting to have as much sustenance intact with what is newly coming (incoherence together).
Many of the features/content that we are seeing being introduced on new updates are actually (E3/pre-release mechanics/features - Procedural flight handling was one of them, introduced on Atlas Rises).
I have always loved No Man's Sky as it is, and also am an avid vanilla player, and I love and respect and have faith in HelloGames and I will always play this game as an avid fan.
However, I truly do see (in depth) with a clear understanding of this game's potential (like an internal map in my mind), alongside how much of it's potential has already been utilized before at one time. Therefore, I really hope that the term "MASSIVE" is the result of (Not only new content like toppings on what currently already is a masterpiece of a game in its vanilla state by a loving team) - But also the result of content, features, heavily talked about, and even the countless things formerly unknown until I've discovered them (that they had planned) - being realized. Now, it would likely take more than a year tbh... (even with a large team) to see all of that come to fruition. It's just so overwhelming. It really is. But I hope that the vision of this game stays in-tact with the initial vision that originally lured people to the game, that painterly style of walking in an 80's sci-fi novel with the four pillars... rather than potentially aiming towards being like (other popular games).
What makes No Man's Sky unique is that it stands out from everything else. Which really is a beauty of "Indie game development" which usually tends to be motivated more by creative freedom - rather than a typical cash grab like typical AAA companies.
~ RaYRoD
I'm going to attempt to answer that question in short
toxic goblet
But what about loading in USB hooks and similar to the code? E.g. literally modding in true HOTAS support a la hooking into DirectInput and other system DLLs? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/Multimedia/joystick-reference
dreamy tulip
Ah! Great Idea. I am not all that familiar with HOTAS based modding, however I have begun to work on opengl script hooking.
toxic goblet
(note this could also be used in theory to mod in alternative multiplayer code, provided the modding system allows loading raw low-level C/C++ for engine actions.)
dreamy tulip
Like 3rd party stuff
Like, basically, what I am planning to continue working on with C++ is
With the opengl hook, is code an on-screen menu that's calling functins from the memory
mapped to hotkeys, with your gamepad
As there's a lot of executable sided things that cannot be done with editing things in a filebased manner
I have a few c++ based mods that are calling executable sided functions
This is definetely an area with a lot of potential
toxic goblet
I mean, you know more about the engine than I do, but I'd think something low-level as control or network overhauls would have to hook in below OpenGL...
dreamy tulip
It'll be similar to my mod menu that I wrote in asm for GTA V (which was one of the first menus) back in the ps3 days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKW0Du0rvzA
toxic goblet
If we can pretty much run arbitrary code on the engine though... that opens up a whole world of possibility.
Hell, depending on how deep one can hook, you can add some really odd features, like actual planet rotation and orbit logic, as well as a more powerful flight engine.
dreamy tulip
Ah nice. Well, with nms this is a realm that I am just beginning to scratch (and I am also fairly new to C++ still, and am studying it alongside c, c#, glsl, python, and various other languages simultaneously) - In time, I hope to (learn everything that I can learn in these areas) and flesh out NMS in these aspects.
But what I do currently have is an opengl hook that calls executable sided functions mapped to keyboard hotkeys
toxic goblet
dreamy tulip
Yeah, that was an older one from 2016, that no longer works
unfortunately
But it was nice when it was working
This extension allows you to build with almost no restriction, even in mid air (Not In Space).
That's opengl based and gets hooked to the exe when added into the binaries folder
toxic goblet
So OGL is powerful enough to get things into deep hooking, interesting...
dreamy tulip
There's also a few benefits that I've noticed with it
- My original 3rd person flight mod that is now OGL based has worked for the past three updates (due to consistent memory pattern scanning)
- They are compatible with filebased mods
So, you can run an OGL based mod with a filebased mod that mods the same files
And ofc, it'll just change the memory sided data
toxic goblet
That is hopeful... if one can inject the right libraries through this, it could allow for execution loading and probably rewriting parts of how the physics engine works, e.g. gravity and flight control. As long I suppose it can set direct memory at least, everything else can be "cheated" into existence.
dreamy tulip
And you can code it to revert it back to the orig settings
Nice. Yeah, stuff like this causes me to want to dedicate more time into studying it
toxic goblet
Sorry, just thinking out loud.
dreamy tulip
Oh, nah, I find it intriguing
Like, it's true
A friend of mine created MP prior to MP was added into NMS
With OGL
toxic goblet
I mean with enough work, you can build pretty much your own multiplayer system from the ground up. As in, full scale. I'd assume you can load a socket-based API.
Could allow for modded servers with custom logic, if a better event handler is driven.
dreamy tulip
I think he had a custom server going, but he met up with himself on a different pc
pre-1.3
toxic goblet
At that point, you pretty much just made Bukkit for No Man's Sky.
dreamy tulip
This is what I was sort of thinking, in the (unlikely event of mods no longer being a thing due to a server sided only nms) - which i doubt would happen tbh
But you can specifiy your own custom server
and then code something for it
toxic goblet
Heh, battle royale in NMS would totally be possible with a serverside mod.
dreamy tulip
The only thing that has mostly held me back personally from pursuing this area of modding, is being consumed with the filebased side of things. But the more that I think about it... there are so many things, executable sided that can be done.
Planet Size forcing
toxic goblet
I mean, I'd assume one can do everything on executable side that they can do on fileside.
dreamy tulip
You can even utilize in-game structs that are static and non useable file based
Yup
toxic goblet
Now an actual challenge would be rewriting some of the very parts of the engine.
dreamy tulip
What would you like to see rewritten?
toxic goblet
Personally, better flight. Actual gravity, true throttle-based flight, etc.
Basically advanced mode where you do everything instead of the computer.
supple wadi
sim-ify it
toxic goblet
Otherwise, handling water, but I suppose that could be OGL.
And weather support. Real weather - localized storms, clouds, etc.
Obviously a full season-based system would be insanely difficult to do just because all of the maths - star distance, orbit, eccentricity, polar angles, etc etc etc.
dreamy tulip
How complex would either of you reckon it be, w/o having the official NMS C++ source?
toxic goblet
Pretty damn complex. I haven't popped the engine into IDA yet, but I suppose weather and biome stuff is more or less planet-wide. You'd need to get some better way of managing weather which would be a new struct for "cells" each holding their own state.
Of course, you can't do a truly accurate simulation of weather because we legit don't understand that even in our own world, but it would be really cool to see darker clouds for a thunderstorm or a cloud of red dust in the distance.
A flight overhaul would legit be easier lol
dreamy tulip
Sweet. Well, now that knowing all of this stuff could be a possibility... I now have no excuse but to at some point dedicate time to making it a thing.
I can't settle for less
toxic goblet
The game already understands gravity - but I think this can be tuned and optimized.
dreamy tulip
Yeah, gravity can be changed filebased (but is restricted to being a global setting) for all planets
toxic goblet
Throttle based logic would mean you don't say "go this fast", it's "provide this much gas". You'd then fight against gravity, air resistance, etc. to take off.
Space flight would be pretty much "get up to speed and turn off throttle"
dreamy tulip
All through c++ yeah?
toxic goblet
I'd assume it would be possible, albeit with extensive engine alteration.
dreamy tulip
Another thing that I'd love to become very familiar with is glsl shader development