So in the sense that it incorporates old settings from LushObjects files, yes, but in the sense of whether or not it goes into some of the shared files, no.
#nms-modding
supple wadi
That was something that RaY & I went over once RaY's power was restored. They were wondering if I'd gone as far as a thorough restoration, including touching up the shared files (among other things), but that was never my particular aim.
echo oxide
So it's just a transfer of the old settings to the current files?
supple wadi
Essentially, yep
echo oxide
Ah, thank you
supple wadi
I'm sure if I had dug deeper I might have spotted other discrepancies, but tbh the only major issue I observed with the lush planets was what everyone else was seeing, which was a reduction in forest density.
echo oxide
Ah, mind if I tell you one of my pet peeves?
supple wadi
It seems like their settings don't do a great job of detecting real sheer slopes
Wassup?
echo oxide
The new grass types that they added, the short, stubby ones start their effects when they're about a foot away from the player, added to that placement seems to have been nerfed- sorta patchier?
I would really like to see this particular type be replaced or revised with a tweak from current grass types
supple wadi
Aah, hmm. Wouldn't be too troublesome of a change, I think. At least if one simply does a quick replace of some parts.
I'm not sure if it's related, but with many of the models they added a new struct related to LODs that may or may not have some influence in that. I think it may mainly be tied up with some fadesettings or the like though.
echo oxide
Ah..
Try using the NoFade booster
I think it makes the phenomenon easier to observe
supple wadi
Are you talking about where the grass only appears immediately around you vs. where it would appear a distance away from you before?
echo oxide
No, the soft, fuzzy effect that appears when you get close to it
I think it only applies to the stubby type
supple wadi
๐ค I'm not entirely sure I'm familiar
Will have to keep an eye out next I'm around it
echo oxide
Thanks Leon
dreamy tulip
Just waking up
@echo oxide Hey, I have a full pathfinder restoration though
Alongside other versions of the game
echo oxide
Ah, I was just curious how Leon's version worked
dreamy tulip
Cool, cool. Wasn't sure if you were looking for something like a Pathfinder conversion mod or so. Thought I'd give ya a heads up
Procedural Caves:
Pre-release biome caves (that I ported over) fused with procedural elements.
supple wadi
Btw, still trying to make sure this works across others' PCs, but just released an .exe version of my Reward Allocator tool for the GcAlienPuzzleTable: https://github.com/GmrLeon/NMS-Reward-Allocator/releases
It's a quick little way to add existing or new rewards for all existing interactions in the game.
Just a matter of the right settings for an existing one (e.g. Trader/AbandonedShip), and voila.
cyan oracle
that sun light into the shroom cave has an Alice in Wonderland feel to it.. โค
dreamy tulip
Screenshot by Xolerate
wispy cobalt
@dreamy tulip thank you and your associates for making this overhaul mod it really has got me back into NMS
dreamy tulip
Thanks for taking the time to try it. I hope the next version is found to be even better when it's released
lime mesa
@dreamy tulip Could you just mod the next update into the game, (Disclaimer: I'm joking)
cyan oracle
the ships can be obtained from the ship swappers in the base building menu.. there's two categories.. one for NMS based ships and one for all the odd custom ships
you can't buy them from traders until you install the Expanded AI Ship pak
wispy cobalt
oo
naive blaze
are these caves deeper than the vanilla caves
wispy cobalt
@dreamy tulip is there any way to turn down the freighters? Theres like freighters spawning near my base and they're super duper loud lol
cyan oracle
that freighter entrance noise is soo annoying.. it STILL makes me get anxiety as if I'm being attacked when I hear it..
wispy cobalt
yea thats really overwhleming
royal bear
@dreamy tulip what is the worst thing (code wise) that could happen that would impede you to port the overhaul to 1.5 when it comes out?
dreamy tulip
@wispy cobalt The old public version of the overhaul has a base sound glitch, but I posted a hotfix for that
I'll post a link in a moment
On that version, this fixes the missing bases and their icons, the sound glitch, missing galactic map lines,a nd a few other things
The next version that I'm working on has that fixed already alongside other things... but it's not released yet
cyan oracle
๐
dreamy tulip
@random flint It makes sense that a particular setting within TKGRAPHICSSETTINGS file is what was conflicting with my 3rd person flight extensions code. I'm looking in my C++ source again... and I remembered that it's also making adjustments to tat specifc file located in your binaries folder, in real time.
I was considering making another tool, or executable for it... but instead I'm just working on a few things in my source
Perhaps I can diagnose what in particular was invoking the CTD.
My guess it's related to the FOV adjustments.
supple wadi
V. sensitive operations
tawny peak
hey rayrod has the immersion update to your mod released or is it still in dev?
dreamy tulip
It's still in dev atm
But I took the day off to begin studying/learning some other programming languages
supple wadi
Aah, don't worry too much about that. Can always stow away the Atlas Rises build of the game and play about with it
While also playing the current build of the game and enjoying whatever new stuff we get. ๐
dreamy tulip
If anyone wants this, you can toss these two files into your binaries folder
I ported over some assembly code to C++
This prevents the game from pausing when you minimize the game, in which the game normally loses focus
supple wadi
This primarily apply to the Steam binary?
Not sure if GOG binary may differ in terms of recognizing/using it, hence the q
dreamy tulip
Gonna test on the GOG version quick
Still temporarily using my friends injector to hook my extension... I'm currently in the process of writing a new injector from scratch
Yeah, works fine for GOG
I figured it would, due to the pattern scans
A benefit to coding mods in this way is that they likely won't need updating. (Unless there's an extremely drastic change)
My 3rd person flight mod has worked for 3 updates
supple wadi
Yeah, was only wondering if the patterns might differ enough to cause issues between them, but it's good that it doesn't!
dreamy tulip
This extension allows you to build with almost no restriction, even in mid air (Not In Space).
Ported over another asm script to C++
Another benefit to coding mods this way, is that they are compatible with file based mods.
dreamy tulip
I'm porting my terrain overhaul over to python format.
It will make things a lot easier to deal with... rather needing to manually re-do the entire VoxelGen file from front to end a ton of more times...
It's actually been like 13 times so far on Atlas Rises of re-writing what's in that giant file from beginning to end, manually. In-between 13 iterations it amounted up to working through 253,860 lines in totality... (Minus the many times that I worked on VoxelGen back on Pathfinder... when the file's structs were set up quite different).
I'll also soon be able to generate more varied terrain overhauls with specific rules that I set, in a single instance (while using my newer terrain overhaul comprised of 10 of my other terrain overhauls that are merged into one file as a template).
For now, I need to sleep though... because I spent like (27 hours without a break) studying, documenting, and working on C#, C++, assembly code, working with a few different disassemblers, working within cheat engine for other purposes, working in blender a bit, and writing scripts for python.
I'm going to start creating more 3rd party content for No Man's Sky.... more than I already have in the past. I also managed to make more progress on the next RaYRoD's Overhaul mod's "Immersion Update" that's still yet to be released.
dreamy tulip
Almost done with this, just got the file to generate with python identically, here's a small portion of the file
https://i.imgur.com/n9BgNgB.png
dreamy tulip
Yeah, just generated a fully functional voxel file through python
Working on several unique terrain templates now, while applying proc value variants within a certain range for key areas... so that everytime I generate the terrain file, it will be unique; but I'm doing so with rules... so that I won't get the wrong output.
I managed to make terrain the same on every planet, which will be useful for making custom templates.
Perhaps I'll start off with caves.
junior furnace
Should save your time, 1.5 is coming, and your mod will probably be out of date
dreamy tulip
I'm not worried about that
junior furnace
I think you should. ANyway, keep going ^^
dreamy tulip
Why should I worry about that?
I'll just update my work as usual... last time I did in one sitting. Apart from that, some of my mods are update proof/self updating.
And it's not mandatory to update the game regardless
junior furnace
But according to a lot of ppl, things may change a lot in 1.5 so...
dreamy tulip
A lot of things always change.
On updates, and if anything that makes me excited... means a lot of more stuff to work with after I update what may get outdated
junior furnace
I mean, your mod could be not needed anymore
dreamy tulip
That's subjective, and regardless of that... It doesn't matter
junior furnace
All I say is that, as 1.5 is coming, you should rest and save your time, and see what will be needed in the future. That is all. But I get you don't really care about what could be in 1.5, and that you are on the right tracks for the next update of your mod, so as I said, keep going ๐
dreamy tulip
I'm working on a custom build... which is sort of different. Regardless of whether there be 5, 10, 20, 15, 100 updates.. this build will always exist, and I'll keep expanding it (aside from an updated more-modernized version).
Not only that, I'm not going to halt my "studies". It's a great learning experience within the process of working with the files... which isn't really something that needs to be played.
If I can learn what I need to learn to do the things that I want to do here in this process, I'll also be able to do it more-so elsewhere and likely with other games... or wherever, etc...
It's beyond NMS
junior furnace
okok cool then
dreamy tulip
Also, I'm very excited for 1.5. ๐
As you are
Hopefully we see lots of new stuff.
However, the only way that would ever happen is if HG's pushed out a fully fleshed out E3 build.
And re-implemented thousands of those not enabled mechanics, and re-made a ton of custom things that they scrapped
But that's just the surface
So there's a ton of things that will be useful. But I don't think that's the direction that HG's is going.
Which is fine
dreamy tulip
Yeah, I understand
I wanted to elaborate a bit on it
No offense taken
However...
Hopefully, it will be a large update. I'm hoping that HG's vision for their game is still grounded on the E3 vision, what originally had drawn most users to the game. That we see more well thought out changes, less toys. The modern improvements are also great.
junior furnace
I hope it is not.
dreamy tulip
Hmm, why not?
That build in it's state (despite the lack of some modern improvements) is like what we have on steroids. It's like my overhaul on steroids.
That's also an understatement. It's literally maddening.
junior furnace
1.38 is much better than "E3 vision" as you say. I hope HG is far from "E3 vision" now
junior furnace
This is a point of view. You are not supposed to agree ^^
dreamy tulip
The 2013-2015 build is literally like what we have on Steroids.
Which is an understatement.
Most things in the pre-release builds were more refined and packed with more substance and mechanics, while very few things lacked recent improvements.
As someone who has studied and discovered thousands of pre-release mechanics scattered abroad within the files (and actually restores them gradually), and does so for a living... I can say with confidence that No Man's Sky has both evolved and devolved.
The build that we currently have is actually downgraded
(Not to sound negative), (not saying it's a bad thing either)
junior furnace
I know about your stuff, but I have my opinion. Now I'm not here to argue. I was just talking about the fact that you should rest while ppl are focused on WT, and wait for what you should "rework" after update. There is no need to try to convince me of anything. We don't have the same point of view, and that is fine.
dreamy tulip
Yeah, nothing personal here
I'm solely talking about the E3 build now, HelloGames stuff
As it's not a matter of point of view
There's factual data about it
In regard to how much substance was existent
I wrote a big fat list of many of the mechanics that were present in those builds, but are currently disabled or hidden within the files.
Many of which whether they be very little mechanics or large mechanics that would make a huge difference to the game.
junior furnace
...
Have a nice day.
dreamy tulip
There's nothing to convince either, because it's objective lol
No one's opinion is even relevant
If I were to say, "Back then... there was planetary rotation". That's not an opinion lol
It was demonstrated.
Have a nice day
Not putting this for you here, but in-case any other modders are curious in regard to what was existent in the E3 builds:
Apart from the literal hundreds of thousands of pre-release mechanics that are scattered and still existent within the files... the E3/pre-release biomes are also still existent (and are completely alien to the game's current biome structure). They were partially scripted, but mostly procedural. The rules that also set per biome type were more advanced, and would completely transform this game if they were still using those methods. A few of the things done through the pre-release biomes were... they specified the amount of life per planet, they specified the kind of unique weather per planet (more detailed multi-weather), unique resource rules, unique building density rules, unique common, uncommon, and rare substance rules, more detailed color palettes, unique rules for water visuals and effects and underwater per biome, including custom underwater and cave heavyair, unique more varied terrain per biome with particular seeds,
they had specified more advanced creature rules and appearances per biome that is far more complex than what the game currently uses. (I'm looking at them now), The amount of variety per biome is about 5x larger per biome than all of the biomes in the game put together right now. The popin/fadein is heavily reduced. There's more things to do per biome. They had advanced rules for AI. They had unique Sentinel rules. Unique trading rules. They specified varied planetary sizes. They had unique flyby rules. They had multi-biome effects. Beach biomes, mountain biomes, various underwater biomes, crystal underwater biomes, various cave biomes per biome, rock biomes, dirt biomes, air biomes, liquid (floating flora on water biomes), (Underwater buildings), and a lot of other stuff.
Those are just a few mechanics from looking at only ONE file.
The 2013-2015 build also had very high quality clouds which were not pixelated like now. There was no noise in the sky. They had more varied space colors, more varied and immersive space heavy air, more things going on in space, procedural factions, overhauled space ai, there were full in-space wars going on... ontop of the planets. They had multiple kinds of crescent worlds. They had multiple kinds of eclipses. They had overhauled atmospherics (that are now disabled by default). Some extreme weather biomes had a subtle depth of field going on. The vignette was less overkill. The water shader was better, it was beautiful and reflective... and non-pixelated like now. They had walking NPC's. Space stations were possible to hover in the atmosphere or on planetary surfaces. The weather was more detailed. There were a lot more varied of space ships. There was a way to view your creature discoveries in it's own unique page and even open up a pop up box for them to see the full model rendered with lots of detail and information. The galactic map had a lot more going on inside of it.
The lighting overall was a lot better and more realistic but still gave you the vibe of walking in a painterly sci-fi novel. There were more kinds of terrain textures. There's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of props and flora scattered in the files unused that were all utilized. Ships were able to explode and hit the surface, or they could actually fall apart and shatter into pieces with a particular animation. There were certain iconic ships in the trailers that are currently not enabled. Freighters could slowly move on planets and there were battles. The terrain was a lot more varied.
The textures used were also far more detailed, the ships were far more detailed, the sound effects and in-game music was far more detailed and immersive.
There was actual planetary rotation seen in the infinite worlds trailer at 1:00
There is data for orbital mechanics
The asteroids used actual terrain and were all procedural.
The atmospherics and lighting and sky colors were also more refined, and even allowed for bioluminescent type biomes.
The terrain generation when flying down to planets was a lot more subtle. Taking off in your ship didn't sky rocket you, but it felt more natural.
Sentinel drones didn't explode and disappear after destroying them, but fell to the ground and rolled away.
The user interface and HUD had a lot more variety and mechanics.
The weapons had a lot more mechanics to them.
It goes on and on and on
These are just a few things that were present in the E3 2013-2015 build that I've discovered and also wrote by memory. Most, if not all of these things are still existent within the files. I've also restored a good portion of them so far.
^ Facts.
floral shoal
So why would they remove all that? Is it just a matter of processing power?
dreamy tulip
There's a common misconception in regard to No Man's Sky on PS4 with dense biomes in concern of performance. However, the dense Oria V rainforest gameplay was actually recorded on a PS4. I didn't notice this until not that long ago... but it's mentioned in the video title.
What it boils down to in the end is a multitude of factors in regard to the way certain visual mechanics (often glsl shader related mechanics) are coded or scripted, and also in the way that biomes are setup. Stuff in the pipelines as well. Etc...
With the current private version that I'm working on... I was getting a solid 100fps in a dense "Dark Forest".
It wasn't at the cost of performance
It's the mystery of all mysterious NMS related, that I honestly don't think needs to be solved.
floral shoal
I'm just curious as to why they'd take out so many things that would clearly improve the end experience, unless it was absolutely necessary. A couple of them, sure, but that list you wrote is fairly extensive
dreamy tulip
Well, I've restored a lot of those mechanics. They greatly improve the experience... it wasn't absolutely necessary for those things to not be utilized, but it was for an unknown decision that I personally don't believe needs an answer. I just enjoy finding those things and working on fully fleshing them out.
The things that I've re-incorporated function 100% fine. The only things that I've seen that are unfinished are some building models, and biome prop models. I've been finishing those as well gradually, as time consuming as it can be, and also adding purpose for them and working them for universal consistency.
Now, I don't look at all of that as a negative thing. Instead, I get excited about it... because (perhaps it will be officially introduced later) or I can just continue taking on the overwhelming/yet enjoyable task of looking for those things.
But it really is maddening how much was going on. Also, all that I wrote above there... likely isn't 5% of everything that they had going on.
Those are just a few things that I happened to discover, and write from memory.
floral shoal
Holy shit man, haha that's crazy. I'm not even on PC but seeing the screenshots people post tells me that you're doing the Lord's work. I think my favourite part is the giant creatures you've put back in. The sense of fear was missing from the game and those help with it
dreamy tulip
Thanks... it's really a fan project out of inspiration for what HelloGames already did and showed in early 2013. I want to mold the game into that very build. It's just a different style, but requires changing practically the entire game. It also requires studying HelloGames, their files, their footages, their screenshots, articles, and any other kind of information to put the pieces together... and a lot of creativity to manifest it in-game in a way that compliments the game, and also feels like an "un-modded game". In many cases, I'm not re-inventing the wheel. As it was already made. I'm just making some darn good wheels and working with what is already here. I like the idea of adding new things to the game... but I'm making NMS a more refined product in the areas where it could use work (with what's currently feasible) while keeping the NMS E3 2013 vision in tact, accommodating a particular user base.
floral shoal
Well I think it's clear that there's a niche you're hitting really well. If I had the cash to spare to build a gaming PC, I'd probably make the switch just for mods like yours. I'm all for the vision that HG has put out, but in a true infinite universe, you'd run into a lot of terrifying, awe-inspiring, crazy-looking shit that shows up now and then. So thanks for making that universe a little more wondrous overall
dreamy tulip
floral shoal
I didn't even realize how much I wanted the trigonometric celestial body shading (like the moon at 1:14 in that video). Ahh such a small thing that adds so much
floral shoal
Are true orbital mechanics something that was taken out of the game? Would they be easy to bring in?
dreamy tulip
There's data for orbital mechanics, but it's not really known how it was used yet
exotic violet
Would orbital mechanics necessitate an actual sun model and larger skybox? I can see rotation being implemented without changing too much of how things work right now
dreamy tulip
I'm not sure, currently the sun in the game is just a shader
This world looks like a bunch of pancakes
Lol @supple wadi
true valve
That actually looks really cool
warm thistle
That looks crazy lol so symmetric
dreamy tulip
Lol yeah...
Still in early testing with generating voxel generation files via my custom python script
Currently making templates to add into my 10 terrain overhauls merged into one file
I could likely add a couple hundred thousand templates (Not expanding the file in this case, but I found something new about how the voxelgen works)
all unique, some not extreme
But still refining things
supple wadi
As you are
Hopefully we see lots of new stuff.
However, the only way that would ever happen is if HG's pushed out a fully fleshed out E3 build.
And re-implemented thousands of those not enabled mechanics, and re-made a ton of custom things that they scrapped``` @dreamy tulip that's...That's not true at all. There's *some* reason they cut back on what's in prerelease files, and we simply don't know why. Rather than reimplement disabled mechanics, hopefully we'll instead see the ideas brought back but with a far more refined vision. As far as I'm concerned, everything prerelease was play, toying with ideas till they found a foundation to work from that they could better iterate on.
To me, the old planet data best resembles this. Everything just jammed together in a single file like that screams playful coding to me.As a tangential aside, because ya know I dig nitpicking from time to time, this: The textures used were also far more detailed, the ships were far more detailed, the sound effects and in-game music was far more detailed and immersive. is not a fact. The last word throws it off, since ~immersion~ is subjective. Details immerse some but detract from it, or simply do nothing, for others.
dreamy tulip
@supple wadi Hi, I think you kinda took what I said out of context. I never said that there isn't a reason why that content is disabled, or hidden. I said that I don't believe that it's something that requires an answer. Now, the pre-release demo scene files are only a fragment of what's around. There's A LOT in there and elsewhere, and it's definitely not "playful coding". It's very detailed and advanced. I wrote a lot about that above. If the game currently utilized those structs, it would allow for A LOT of more options in it's current state. Everything pre-release was definetely not play. Many of the things heavily seen/shown/advertised pre-release are still in the files right now and can be used. They work fine. They had a refined build.
Yes, they had more detailed textures on various kinds of ships and other things. One is example is for the water (which is partially glsl related). The texture that they used back then was different and it also played a huge part in it's reflectiveness. The texture actually effects reflections.
The ground textures were also different, alongside their texture tiling.
There were also a lot of more varied sounds, and sound effects, for different things. The entire scope of it was different.
Heck, even with the demo scenes along.... ONE planet is more varied than all of the planets and their sub files put together (in it's current state).
Even with the mods that we have now, take the awesome crescent worlds, or Space dream. As beautiful as they make the game... they are mere workarounds to what was actually present back then in full. Not only did they have perfect crescent worlds, but they actually had several kinds of planetary atmospherics (all shader related) running at the same time. They had multiple kinds of eclipses, multiple kinds of crescent worlds, even the default non-crescent planets (all flowing at runtime) alongside dynamic weather and other things.
Just because there's a few unfinished assets, doesn't mean that it "was not a function able build". There are things present in the game to this day that's not fully functional. There's also been a lot of improvements in the modern versions. You can notice on the older versions a lack of anti aliasing.
What you said here: hopefully we'll instead see the ideas brought back but with a far more refined vision.
This is also what I'm hoping for. We've actually seen a bit of that come to fruition. One of the heavily advertised pre-release mechanics was "procedural flight handling". That was introduced on 1.38 I believe.
And in regard to immersion as being subjective. That's true. That's not necessarily objective. I'm not saying that the sounds are not immersive now (imo) as they are beautiful <3.
Think of it like this... If the entire time that you were playing the game, you heard a tire screeching consistently? Would that be immersive? No. As subjective as that might be... I'm pretty sure no one would think so. lol
But what they did have back then, was A LOT of more sounds, music, creature sounds, and other sfx utilized than what is currently utilized.
And with the game in it's current state, if within the next update they add more music. It would surely help with immersion in the aspect of audio
supple wadi
I'm addressing a different line of argument there, which is that regardless of your disregard of whether it needs an answer, I believe there's a valid rationale behind the alterations, and suggesting their prerelease work is objectively better reveals an absence of perspective on your part. You're saying, from an outside perspective, educated though it may be, that their previous work is simply better, through and through.
That's largely the basis of a significant portion of your restoration work. You wouldn't be doing it if you didn't believe that what was was better than what is, in certain respects. However, what I'm suggesting is that your limited perspective is overlooking, and arguably actively disregarding, what led to the current structuring of the game. As I mentioned, I think their prior work was more play to find a good structure, but (and this I implied, rather than said) in some fashion otherwise untenable for a game which they sought to update later down the line.
The structure we see now I believe is the result of attempting to create a better foundation that made it more tenable to update the game. Their old prerelease interviews frankly suggest as much. You can't try to actively update a game where changing one thing so easily breaks/warps so many other things, as they joked about in the past.
No matter how detailed it once might have been, if that meant that it couldn't be as easily updated without breaking several things, then that's a clear mark against it, imo.
dreamy tulip
Well, yeah. It's a reason as aforementioned, that I consider the mystery of all mysteries NMS related (in which I personally don't believe needs to be answered). I believe that HelloGames had a reason for the decisions tha they made. I'm saying that despite (recent improvements)... the pre-release build was, and is, a more refined, more content and feature packed, work of art. Sure, they may have been a few unfinished things here and there... but the amount of what's unfinished is purely miniscule to what is fully working, and the evidence/scope of what fully works is still working.
I also think that HG's may have intended to take a different direction with the game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And in regard to the new structure, like take for example (in demo scene planets) they specified unique voxel rules. Well, if the game actually utilized that structure... for example right now, it would actually open door for more planetary terrain variety (without the current cap that is)
And with the game as is right now, yes... changing one thing can so easily break the game.
It's also the dilemma of the thing that I'm working on.
Take for example, that you structure the "Biomefilenames" a certain way.
Supposed you happen to utilize a "Scenegraph" for one component.
If you shift that file in anyway, it would reverse/switch the order and seeds of how things get generated and potentially create a mix of certain rules that when initialized could invoke a very painstakingly tedious to diagnose CTD.
Changing 1 thing, can change everything within the in-game universe.
It's actually something that I'm trying to fix in regard to an annoying cave crash haha
"No matter how detailed it once might have been, if that meant that it couldn't be as easily updated without breaking several things, then that's a clear mark against it, imo."
That's not true.
In regard to not being able to easily update it
I take that you're referring to the demo scene files correct?
I'm not thinking about those files, I mean... sure they are there. But a majority of "those detailed things" are outside of those files haha
In regard to the work that I'm doing, I spend a least amount of the time working with those files.
Actually, many of the things in those files... I've been porting over to the new game's structure and working it for universal generation.
I'm not suggesting that the game would particularly be better of if it was setup in that exact way.
Let me elaborate a bit on what I am suggesting
supple wadi
(except that you absolutely would like it to be more like the old builds, hence all your work)
dreamy tulip
What I am suggesting, is that many of those mechanics are actually still possible to do with the way that the game is in it's current format. "Many, not all".
They've already created the groundwork for those things actually.
Some via globals, more not in globals that I've found.
You see, I look at those highly detailed demo scenes and think like this. "Okay, so they did this back then. Now, how can I incorporate that into the modern game?"
Back then, they only had those files on a solarsystem scale
But it can be worked on a universal scale
And if done right, with more consistency than what was.
I don't want it to just be like the old builds. (In many aspects yes), however... I'm making it better
I'm working on a modernized E3 build.
With all of the new advancements that HG's did
supple wadi
Correct me if I'm wrong here: older versions of the game, you could properly load up some of these old prerelease files, yeah?
Thanks to debug still being functional
dreamy tulip
Yeah, a few people and I were doing that in 2016
Sort of
But back then (I didn't really know what I was doing that much). You gave me an idea though
To revert back to that version and play around with things ๐ฎ
supple wadi
Yeah, duh ๐
Then we could finally know how much of this stuff might break all over the place, lol
supple wadi
's Sky
dreamy tulip
That stuff wouldn't break all over the place
You do realize that they played for hours on those demo scenes?
W/o issues
And when ported over to the standard game...
It works fine
supple wadi
Some of it
dreamy tulip
Except some structs ofc
supple wadi
lol
supple wadi
Depends also on what you're talking about porting, lol
dreamy tulip
I'm porting the biomes over and many of their rules
And certain settings used for them
supple wadi
I know that ๐
dreamy tulip
That are outside of the biome files
supple wadi
But we also know how dense some of those old files are, lol
dreamy tulip
Okay, take the gcplanetdata struct for example
That works fine lol
Like, right now
dreamy tulip
Specifying planet sizes and solar system sizes in this case
Well yeah, we tried to load those in an unorthodox way
It's not expected to work as it did
But
If we loaded it up (given we had the right knowledge and resources) exactly as they did
It wouldn't break all over the place
It would run fine as it did for them
Under the circumstance that some files outside of those scenes hasn't drastically changed enough to mess it up
The old build didn't break all over the place for them, it ran fine.
supple wadi
See there's the thing though, we also know that at times things didn't run fine for them. Like I said, they mentioned themselves making changes that botched things
dreamy tulip
One of those examples was the planetary rotation. They mentioned that it confused play testers.
supple wadi
Ultimately what I'm getting at is, we don't know to what extent the old builds were really stable
dreamy tulip
You know what's interesting?
supple wadi
Of course they wouldn't talk up its faults and instability
dreamy tulip
If you were to restore the YAVIL biome... there's some things that I noticed about it. The amount of content/substance used in that one planet that's set to be a lush biome, that gets spawned in-game is larger and more varied than (all of the biomes ' object files in NMS put together in the game that we have). Not only is it larger, it performs better than what we have. Not only does it perform better, there's more detail, variety and life to that biome. Not only is there more detail and variety... even the way in which the objects are placed/structured is better.
Heck, the grass spawns like 50km away
It works fine, better than all of the modern lush biomes from all released builds
that have been utilized
It's really the same with all of that stuff
One of the reasons why it would be beneficial to specify unique terrain rules per biome would be this:
Given that the current VoxelGen file is static and we can only utilize 10 templates.... I mean, it's self-explanatory... knowing that the biomefilenames is not static, If we could have unique voxelgen data per biome (with that struct as it was utilized back then)... then we could have take any amount of unique biome voxelgen rules consistently (with templates made)
It could literally be never ending
dreamy tulip
Why would it be dirt?
It would literally be the same thing as using the current voxelgen file
Just in biomes instead
supple wadi
You're talking about the terrain, it would still just be terrain
supple wadi
Until they make the terrain itself literally move and shift, it won't be that interesting, lol
dreamy tulip
Well, it would still be better than what we have... more-like what was
supple wadi
It's what happens on and above and sometimes even in the terrain that's interesting
dreamy tulip
Putting emphasis on what I said
That build is superior to this build, in more ways than it was not superior
Despite some issues
There was more content, more features, more substance, more detail packed into things. If ALL of that stuff was here right now... it would compliment what we have. (With the modern improvements).
Also, portals were intended to be used for a different purpose back then
Which actually complimented the initial focus of the game
And in regard to terrain man, I think that we don't get to say that yet
(that it would be crap)
Here's why
The game doesn't even utilize a HUGE portion of what's possible via the terrain
It's set to be disabled, or just empty and can be enabled.
But I love the idea of what you just said
Terrain shifting and moving
Would be AMAZING.
There's actually data for that that used to be on Wikipedia from 2016 that I saved before it was taken out xD
I love Hello Games and NMS and the game in it's current state
But I'm just stating details about how awesome what they had/likely have was
frosty vine
Wait... there's data for moving terrain?
dreamy tulip
No, but there was information that they wrote in regard to effects of erosion and evolution, and things changing
frosty vine
Ah
dreamy tulip
On their official wikipedia
They even talked about multiplayer aspects wayyy back
On there
To me, it's just amazing and exciting
And it peaks my curiosity
frosty vine
Yeah definitely
I just hope that they maybe put that stuff back. I feel like they will, I just hope their focus hasn't shifted too much.
dreamy tulip
Going #backwards is the actual forward with NMS.
Or perhaps bringing what's behind forward.
frosty vine
I hope so
dreamy tulip
@supple wadi In regard to portals...
The idea was that the closer you traveled to the center, the more alien the planets would be. Therefore, opening a portal was supposed to take you to a more alien planet that was closer to the center and rich in resources. The portals also seemed seamless. You wouldn't be able to take your ship through, but you'd have to find what you need... only to go back to where you came from.
And planets were mentioned to be affected by distance to the sun. (I don't understand any of that stuff)
frosty vine
That's kinda sorta wat's happening here
frosty vine
Definitely
dreamy tulip
In regard to portals?
Nah, that's not how it works
Atm
Not saying it's a bad thing
It's cool that it's used for MP
frosty vine
Yeah, i mean aside from closer to the center on an alien planet
dreamy tulip
Or just going to coords
frosty vine
but you can go through, can't take your ship, have to go back.
dreamy tulip
But that info sorta works in tandem with the initial plan/vision of what was actually written on the wiki
It's interesting
Imagine, if the closer you progressed in the game...
The more weird, and alien it got?
But on the outer edge, things seemed more familiar
frosty vine
what would be "alien" to you
dreamy tulip
I mean, if the further you progressed things kept cranking up
Sean Murray described it in this video:
https://youtu.be/UgFNPg9qUXI
This may have been one of those things that they wanted to do, but likely didn't have
But I would be amazed if they actually had it.
I don't know.
supple wadi
I still don't believe any of us can say with any proper authority that the old material was firmly better, without first giving it a proper play of our own.
lime mesa
I always thought of it as if it were old school Minecraft. The further you go, the more the system generates extremes
dreamy tulip
Even the smallest of things make drastic overall game differences
frosty vine
Uh, it probably definitely was.
supple wadi
RaY, y'know what I mean, not ported values and the like. I mean literally as it was.
supple wadi
Short demos
dreamy tulip
Look at the trailers man
They weren't just demos
It's important to understand that, that was an actual build.
Whereas, there was a consistent universe with those rules.
supple wadi
Recorded and clipped to show it at its best
dreamy tulip
But was later restructured.
There's footage all around of those builds
just casual gameplay
supple wadi
Much of which handled strictly by Sean himself
dreamy tulip
And there's noticeable things from those builds that don't even need to be ported haha
That work right now and I really enjoy playing with haha
More things than what's actually in those demo scenes
Regardless of whether it was handled by Sean or not, it was an actual functionable build.
With a lack of some things ofc
Like (anti aliasing) as we know
supple wadi
I'm not denying that it was a working build, lol
dreamy tulip
Have you seen the terrain on those builds?
supple wadi
I've seen what little they showed of it to us
dreamy tulip
Keyword "Little"
No, they've shown A LOT
Not just on trailers
There's like thousands of examples
junior furnace
The point is that I think, they made artistic and technical decisions that leads to the 1.38
dreamy tulip
It's amazing
@supple wadi
And inspiring
That right there is my opinion, however...
One thing that is factual is, that terrain was cranked up. Like really cranked up.
And I don't mean necessarily extreme.
Could it be extreme? Yes. However, they actually utilized the full scope of it.
Or a larger scope of it to be fair
frosty vine
Yeah I agree with ray.
dreamy tulip
It's demonstrated via photos and videos
supple wadi
That's a given Oppressor, lol
dreamy tulip
And I've seen a glimpse of it in game
There's nothing to agree/disagree with
it's an objective fact that they utilized more aspects of the terrain
supple wadi
Terrain is terrain is terrain
dreamy tulip
Well, yeah
I mean... not to say that terrain is bad or anything, but they really did utilize more aspects of the terrain haha ๐
supple wadi
Like I get what you're saying, I just find it the least interesting part of things
dreamy tulip
Yeah, the way I see it is...
on my end
There are some things which interest me lesser than other things...
But
It's like a recipe to a cake
If you assemble all the ingredients and put it together with love, carefully...
You might just get a darn good cake
Every detail (small and large) makes a difference and matters I think
And I think that makes it worth working with
Like, if all we had was a flat planet (I saw a mod for that once... xD Flat empty planets) Why, Gosh why?
That would be boring imo
But if you add in the rest of the mix
It adds presence
But is a key component to aesthetics
supple wadi
I admire natural wonders and all, but at the end of the day, many of them are formations of stagnant material. What's most often more interesting is how life emerges and survives there, or how those formations came to be, not even just how they are
But we know the how in many respects with NMS, the mystery lays barren, it's algorithms, proc-gen. So what largely remains is life.
dreamy tulip
Ah yeah, same! I love those rare moments, that have you wondering/picturing... how did this location/planet end up this way?
Remember this pic?
(Imaginatively, seeing something like that could have you wondering...)
Or even just planets in general I guess
But we could really use more presence in things...
Like you've mentioned
Would love to see more creature activity
But stuff that's well thought out y'know?
supple wadi
Yeah
dreamy tulip
I once thought that was a pyramid on the far right
Turns out it was a crystal cube
But that was one of my favorite pics
supple wadi
But really, this just comes down to priorities. I don't care too much about more variety if it means it's still behaving the same. What good is that? You know what was probably one of the smaller details yet mildly more exciting for me with Atlas Rises? It was the Holo-Termini. It wasn't much, but it was something that flowed.
You climbed up, you activated a part that moved about and produced the holographic area, then a projection of someone was talking to you. It didn't just say a hologram appeared to you, it showed it. Ship communicator is the same way. Small yet different functions, but not strictly utilitarian, like the field equipment (i.e. save stations/beacons/signal boosters).
dreamy tulip
Ah yeah, I see. So what makes the game feel more lively for you are locations and things to do right? That's understandable. Like, that also compliments exploration and variety. I try to work with what we have to make interesting interactions.
However, what personally grabs my interest and excitement with the game is exploration and finding jaw-dropping beautiful sights. It's one of the pillar aspects of what NMS always was. That's what interested me from the start... but I also would totally love new behaviors with things.
The thing with me is, I wouldn't want to see 1 or 2 simple things added. I'd like to see an overhaul of buildings, locations and interactions... which is why (with what we have, which is a lot more than what we know) and there's a lot more possible than what has been discovered... that I'm trying to work with that until I'm satisfied with it
I mean, cities don't really interest me with NMS
Idk, not sure if it would fit right
Just my opinion
But, artistic ruins that give presence to the game... alike the one's seen in the trailers.... I would love
I was watching that new show called "Krypton" the superman prequel. I love it. It's on SYFY, but it's supposedly like a 10 episode series...
They had this beautiful city in it when he looked upwards. lol Really gave you the feels lol
supple wadi
lol cities are boring
For me I was kind of interested in the prospect of strange abandoned facilities and ruins, which fortunately we got, but then...Well, there just wasn't much to them
dreamy tulip
We got different ones
Likely wasn't much to the older one's either upon interaction (we don't know)
But...
They looked really, really, different and really artistic
But now that I think about it...
There were more things to actually do with buildings pre release lol
In fact, it would also interact with the internal clock/time of day
I believe
And you could be killed from them
supple wadi
Well some of the buildings looked artistic, others were very clearly unfinished experiments, lol
There were some more effects from buildings prerelease, but imo it's pretty clear that the current iteration came as a late dev addition
dreamy tulip
Which ones do you think were unfinished experiments?
Yeah, they did decide to add the new ones in.
supple wadi
What we were just talking about, some of the ruins
supple wadi
Lemme dig it up...
dreamy tulip
Thanks
I remember the ruin/monolith from IGN
But... not sure if there were ruins shown in the trailers
Wait
Yeah there were
One here:
โค
There's also those factories
Like from that planet soleth prime
And also on ign footage
And those alien rings which are now back
And that resource harvester from here
^ Is a proc model
Hmm, wonder if there's others that I missed
Oh yeah, the other portal types
Oh, there's these from new eridu
Looks like a lighthouse haha
They might've inspired that planet based off of ancient Mesopotmia
supple wadi
Ah here we go...I was thinking of the old ReferenceTest scene in Ruins
dreamy tulip
?
ohhh
Yeah, looking at it now
I wonder if those buildings are still in the files
supple wadi
They had some weird fixation on plinths with some of the ruin iterations ๐ค
Huh. I'm surprised they actually use the underwater ruins scene. It's so...Plain.
dreamy tulip
lol yeah
pre-release they had actual buildings
underwater
Different kinds of ruins actually
But I want to see if I can find them
But...
I want to find this
supple wadi
Dunno, tbh. I haven't come across it in my digs through the files.
That said, many of the old structures kinda bore me in some ways. They very much scream setpieces.
dreamy tulip
Like most things
Oh, I see
For some reason.... those pillars reminded me of atlases
idk why
supple wadi
Huh, haven't really looked at the standing stones too closely. Have you?
lol, you're a tease and a half ๐ Those structures you recently restored, you've been showing the dullest version of
These things look like a far superior version of the depots we have now, but I sorta get the feeling they could have behaved similarly to them
Huh, think I just found the old school crates
dreamy tulip
Wonder what this is
Yeah, I've looked at the standing stones closely
And those crates, I found those too and the cubes from Suga-Uomi
But what are you looking at? Just in-case you're looking at something different
supple wadi
You should really browse the models with 1.24 & the old viewer, lol ๐
dreamy tulip
Are they different?
supple wadi
I was just glancing through LunarProc
supple wadi
1.24 & the old viewer just lets you properly view proc stuff
supple wadi
This should work, I think
dreamy tulip
Thanks
supple wadi
No problem. Anytime I'm reviewing proc stuff I go for it
dreamy tulip
Does your PF mbincompiler decompile it?
The lunarproc
There's a lot of variants in that
I love those buildings
supple wadi
Yeah it did/does
dreamy tulip
Hmm, care to pass the exe?
The one I have is producing an error.
The amount of parts to this think is crazy lol
supple wadi
dop
That's just what's stuck in the Viewer folder, so presumably it's doing the right stuff, lol
supple wadi
wat
supple wadi
Every time I've tried that it's just exploded on me
dreamy tulip
Does smallprop open for you?
supple wadi
Nah, index outta bounds of the array
dreamy tulip
Nah, it doesn't open
supple wadi
Oh, lol
dreamy tulip
It has a descriptor though
supple wadi
Sorry, was about to tag you, wasn't sure if you still had this up
supple wadi
lol Krem, that's probably from using the latest Model Viewer
cyan oracle
well that's a bust.. anticipating a possible update, I wrote a script to replicate vanilla ship files as my morship scenes/descriptors so players using MorShips w/ the custom ships stored in their save files can still use their saves after update.. with vanilla replacements instead of the custom models.. hopefully it'll work when they do update "this summer"
supple wadi
The more we know now, and the more we learn leading up to it, the better suited we'll be to rapidly update our work for the next update. ๐
lime mesa
Hype for nms next , god imagine the possibilities with modding on this new version of nms ๐คฏ
supple wadi
depends on what's introduced and if we get some official tools
tbh as even RaY would probably tell you, many of us modders have hardly even scraped the surface of what we have
both in terms of prerelease and new stuff
dreamy tulip
Omgosh, the new update looks amazing <3
At-least what we've seen. I'm excited for it ๐
And Sean was actually "Speaking his mind" Haha
Twitter
^ Not sure if he's ever spoke as direct as that to the community before
And yeah, ditto to what @supple wadi said. However, now we will have an even more beautiful and refined game to work with. I'm eager to see what else may be coming. When Sean said "Our biggest update yet", that got me giddy lol
dreamy tulip
@frosty vine The new update to No Man's Sky looks like it's going to be amazing. I'm excited to see what else is introduced to this awesome NMS community. I'm also excited to see what new possibilities will be opened, in regard to working with an even better base game. ๐
frosty vine
What do we know about all this? I just read the tweet.
frosty vine
Good enough for me.
visual shard
guys just wanna ask what are the recommended mods for NMS? ๐ getting a gaming tower soon and will be instally NMS include @dreamy tulip 's mod
dreamy tulip
I recommend the immersion update, that I'll be releasing.... hopefully soon.
I personally don't use anything else
But there's some cool stuff around
visual shard
immersion update? what does it have?
dreamy tulip
It's going to be like the v10 overhaul, overhauled. It's the next update to what I've been heavily working on
About 3 months into the next update for it with little to no breaks
visual shard
ah
dreamy tulip
visual shard
but hey, do take some rest and not to overwork yourself D:
dreamy tulip
Yeah, I've been making sure to do that... thanks man
Also, here is a screenshot slideshow of some random planets for on the immersion update of RaYRoD's Overhaul (WIP) - Some are from the v10
dreamy tulip
Take care
frosty vine
How you doin ray?
visual shard
he poofed again it seemsl ol
supple wadi
๐ Do some of these YouTubers even cover any other NMS mods, or recognize the included mods with your overhaul RaY? Wonder sometimes.
dreamy tulip
Haha, yeah. Mzk covered Krem's Moarships
Also...
I was talking with Oppressor11 about this earlier
In particular...
96% of everything in the overhaul mod is my work and my own ideas. 1% of that are some other assets from a few other modder friends in which they granted me permission to use, or use as a base to work off of and expand upon with my adjustments. 1% of that is Krem's moarships. 2% of that are some assets that I had a part in the development thereof.
The contributed assets by a few other friends amount up to like 300MB (because they are mostly models). The rest of the overhaul mod are all individual files, typically kilobyte or megabytes in size... so many, that end up amounting up to around 4GB.
The amount of truly awesome stuff by a few others, is lesser compared to my work in the overhaul mod. However, I go out of my way to give make sure that people see the additional credits and it's advertised all over.
I guess people talk about what interests them most
In fact the niche of my mod is so important to a lot of people that I don't have to SEO optimize it. It's on the first results on google when you type in "No Man's Sky". It happened unintentionally
supple wadi
Yeah it's nothin' on you, just thinking aloud about how these YouTubers don't seem to bother digging about for more
Like there's also Darconia out there
And Lo2k and MsrSgtShooterPerson's works are well worth their own spotlight
But whaddya gonna do with some goofy YouTubers? ๐คท
dreamy tulip
I guess people like to talk about what interests them the most
supple wadi
ya said that already
dreamy tulip
One thing that attains to a particular audience is E3... I mean, it just is that way
Yeah
Idk
Yeah, I'm just thinking out loud in text form haha
supple wadi
might as well just tag everything E3 ๐
dreamy tulip
Darconizer is my friend, however most of the stuff within Darconia are other people's files. (Please don't take this the wrong way). I'm not saying that's a negative thing... That's not a bad thing, but I mean... it's stuff that we've seen before. I guess people talk about things that really peak their interest.
He also made some awesome stuff
supple wadi
i mean nearly every mod is gonna be stuff we've seen before lol
dreamy tulip
Not necesarilly
Even without the need for 3rd party assets
Remember when Lo2k introduced ringed planets?
It was awesome, and nothing outsourced
No one saw that before
But yeah, you did say "nearly"
However, maybe some things that truly have been seen before...
Could be drastically worked in a unique way, that would grab attention
We've seen some people do that
I guess an example of that would be...
So, we've seen the kind of templates that HG's utilized for the atmospherics and colors
As they have a file for them, and the game selects any one of those
In that case, I decided to work with what's already here
And to look @ e3 pics and stills
and fan art
And design that in-game through real-time hacking
Prior to applying templates for them
And a lot of people have said that it drastically changes the vibes in-game (those who tested it)
In a way that it feels new
But I mean, mods I guess.
Like, personally... I have nothing against mod packs (comprised of mods by other people) with permission. I see it as simply a person saying.... "Okay, so... this is how I like to play No Man's Sky, this is my preset of a setup. I may have done a few tweaks here and there, but this is my pack".
I had a mod pack back on path finder
Where I invested a lot of work into, like what Darconia is now
Which is cool
However, on 1.3, I decided to go a different route
I scrapped that stuff... and locked myself away and continued to build onto something that I had previously been working on (in early release times)
with random ideas that I wrote on a notepad after waking up from my sleep
And I asked a few people for permission for me to use some things as a base (for a few files) to work on
And a few people asked me to add their stuff
But the rest from thereon, is just my own stuff purely
And here and there, some people like Stoian and I would work on something
supple wadi
At a certain point given the basic aims of overhauls it really just feels like why bother though. Whatever smaller tweaks are done will likely largely be subsumed into any overhaul and laziness/convenience will prevail for many users.
Why download many things if they're all in this one thing. ๐คท
dreamy tulip
But the thing with me is, that my mind fixates and I try to go crazy with even the smallest of things
Checking your message
Okay, so... this is why I bother.
dreamy tulip
Oh, maybe I misunderstood
supple wadi
Like why would anyone bother with smaller mods anymore? The only real option to get your work out there seems to be to build a competing overhaul, or introduce custom assets
Personally, I make small mods because I prefer the flexibility of choice, but it seems like many users may prefer simple convenience ๐ค
dreamy tulip
Oh, I wanted to share this with you... what I was writing for a little bit
My personal ambition/goal/desire is the mold the game into a particular 2013-2015 style. However, it really requires changing like almost every single file in this game. It's maddening. I call it an overhaul, because it touches nearly every aspect of the game... and is intended to overhaul what is, and turn it into what was (with my own kind of twist)... but (before I do things) I try to think from a developers perspective. I try to weigh the balances, or probable outcome of certain development decisions that I make or the route that I go with things and play scenarios in my mind. "If I do this, what might some people say?" "How could this work out in the long run?". I see it more-so as a custom build that's drastically different than what is, happens to be inspired/heavily influenced by what was... with my own twist with HG's wonderful modern improvements.
I'll read and respond to what you were just sharing too
Well, I have a personal qualm with mod competition
You see, I don't do anything to compete with anyone... but it's really just for fun. It's a fan project out of passion and inspiration for what HelloGames already did... and I try to introduce some new things.
And I like to point people to some others work at times
Like, take your project toaster for example
I wanted to make sure that it's compatible, prior to suggesting some users to add it to their folder
If they need it or would like it
supple wadi
The idea there is less like direct competition so much as getting users to really even recognize there's something else out there. Like to even get on the map for some, it seems the work has to be overhaul scale.
If that makes sense
dreamy tulip
I understand what you're saying there. That's the first that I've heard that. I think that what's also a reminder, and eye opener is that on the scale of what I'm doing... it goes to show how much potential this game already has and that we all have barely scratched the surface of what NMS can be. Even without future updates. Despite those aspects that we need official stuff from HG's for.
Something that I love about No Man's Sky is...
Even with what we have, they've created the groundwork for unlimited potential.
So much could be expanded on, and worked in interesting ways... and lots of stuff, yet to be found and worked with.
Whether there be 1 more update, 2 more updates, 3 more updates, or 10,000 more updates
I find it exciting, as there's so much that us modders can do
I just wish more people (like you do) would take the time to look through this stuff
lime mesa
in my opinion, people mainly want overhaul scale mods, because the vanilla game is just that bad.
supple wadi
Yeah, hopefully we don't all have to build our own universes to get on the map for people though, lol ๐
lime mesa
tiny mods wont help the game become any more fun because of its many flaws
supple wadi
Like that in itself kinda destroys the shared universe in a way, like each overhaul literally creates little pocket universes ๐ฎ
lime mesa
i cant enjoy unlimited jet pack fuel if i have to keep crafting warp cells to go to other systems, i cant enjoy being able to take off a planet without having to land somewhere else and do the exact same. etcetera
honestly
i love your mods but the flaws of the game itself are way bigger
dreamy tulip
Something else about what people typically admire:
In regard to a good product.... People prefer the developer of that product to be someone who is REALLY into they're work. A visionary. Someone who is rooted in a passion for their work and has a purpose and goal with it. Who is willing to keep persevering in it, until their vision comes to fruition. This is what I truly respect about Hello Games.
supple wadi
Thing is though, some of the flaws one may see in the game are matters of opinion
Like to me, limited jetpacking isn't itself a flaw
lime mesa
No it isnt, its something good, but the flaws of the vanilla game outweighs it
atleast in my opinion ofcourse
its very subjective but i feel like this is how a lot of people feel
supple wadi
Same way with warp cells to me though. The bigger problem with that system is a lacking alternative to crafting every time you need a cell
dreamy tulip
Maybe HG's tried to bypass that by having the selectable objects
or pickups that you randomly find
supple wadi
Tbh if anything, part of the issue there is deeper still. You should have longer stretches between refueling, but this means something to draw you in on-foot.
Stuff that keeps you grounded a bit more.
eager lion
grinding isn't bad
dreamy tulip
I wonder what it would be like, if NMS was like Super Mario 64 xD @supple wadi
lime mesa
No but this game. no
lime mesa
This game is super, super grindy as you already know. It just is not fun anymore because of it.
eager lion
Ram your spacecraft into a space station.
It's so repetitive as it is.
I hope NMS:N fixes it.
dreamy tulip
I wonder what a good balance for it could be
dreamy tulip
I do like mining/grinding, but I do feel like grinding could be improved
eager lion
It's all grind, grind, grind.
supple wadi
I mostly only gather as needed in vanilla so the grind rarely ever even becomes a grind to me
lime mesa
I want crafting to still exist but as an alernative. Do more with exploration. It is an exploration game for a reason
dreamy tulip
Yes, exploration โค
My favorite aspect
lol
That's the focal point of what NMS is
But
lime mesa
There is barely any of it though. This game is lacking on almost every aspect. Can anyone name one aspect where it isn't missing something or really bad?
dreamy tulip
The other pillars of the game, could be worked more
eager lion
guys
lime mesa
Yes?
dreamy tulip
Well, in regard to the lacking... (I'm not sure if that's the word that I would use).
eager lion
It's fun for about two hours
dreamy tulip
But
eager lion
but Hello Games is fixing it hopefully
dreamy tulip
There's so much that could be improved
Even with what's here
Anyone on PC can get a taste of that
lime mesa
Everything could be improved basically. From the story, to the grinding, to the exploration, to the mining, to the animals, to the buildings. Ev-ry-thing
eager lion
I like it.
dreamy tulip
Sounds good
eager lion
Nice job, man.
dreamy tulip
Thanks man, I like hearing what people think in ways of how the game can be improved
It gives me ideas to work on those things
eager lion
YEah
dreamy tulip
I tried to make it less grindy though, or rather grinding more meaningfull and fun
eager lion
Thanks to modders like you, this game is worth playing in its current state.
No offense to Hello Games.
But it's truly as wide as an ocean, as deep as a puddle.
lime mesa
Full*
dreamy tulip
I love the game in it's vanilla state as well, but I prefer the RC1 PS4 version in that case
A lot of things are REALLY cranked up on that old version
Compared to 1.3
Despite obv improvements
eager lion
yeah
I do love HG though
they're trying to make it great
I blame sony for rushing it
tbh
dreamy tulip
Are you excited about the next update?
lime mesa
Hello Games isn't completely innocent though, and who isn't excited ๐
eager lion
I'm very excited.
They've been working on it for the past few months, likely.
Possible VR support.
lime mesa
Did you guys read that one suggestion of someone on Reddit? They suggested a sort of Spectator mode, you can just watch animals and stuff and fly around the galaxy. It sounds good but we still need better & more animals.
eager lion
Fleshed out gameplay.
dreamy tulip
Hasn't it been almost a year?
lime mesa
To be honest, if the update doesn't add everything they promised before it came out, i probably won't return.
dreamy tulip
If the update doesn't do that, I will do that
eager lion
same, kind of
dreamy tulip
I'm already far into doing that
eager lion
this is their chance to redeem themselves
dreamy tulip
It's what my project is haha
lime mesa
My patience has run out. And the game just is really bad now, nobody can deny this.
eager lion
yeah
lime mesa
Thank you, by the way, Ray.
lime mesa
You are honestly keeping this game alive these days.
And i am not just being nice, this is the truth.
dreamy tulip
Thanks for the kind words. I admire the work and time invested by some other modders that I've seen too
Also
And man....
Imagine, if the next update was a FLESHED out, modernized, E3 build.
Like... everything that once was
Added back
With new content as well
And refined
supple wadi
I mean I can deny that @lime mesa, lol I wouldn't have bought the PC version of the game if I didn't already really enjoy the PS4 version
But that's the thing, like mentioned earlier, a point of differing opinions
lime mesa
What do you still enjoy though? I have the PS4 version and its boring.
lime mesa
@dreamy tulip I also just watched your video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctlrXOCukM&feature=youtu.be. I love it.
supple wadi
I still really enjoy finding new sights in the PS4 version
dreamy tulip
I'm the kind of guy who didn't want to throw out a ton of old VHS tapes yesterday
Idk xD
supple wadi
I love finding new ships, new multi-tools
dreamy tulip
I want a bit of everything lol
supple wadi
Like some of the ships you find in the game are super slick looking
lime mesa
How do you still find new ships and stuff? I barely encounter new ones and if I do, I can't buy them.
dreamy tulip
My favorites are the fighters
supple wadi
I mean I can't often buy them either, lol
dreamy tulip
But I want that ORIA V fighter
lime mesa
Most of them also look the same for me except of a colour and maybe a wing that's misplaced.
supple wadi
I guess I see new stuff by not looking at others' shots all over the place
And I recognize the differences between the various types
dreamy tulip
I don't want to downplay NMS, but I do recognize it's potential.
lime mesa
I hate those reddit posts with pictures of animals and planets and ships and stuff
supple wadi
So I see the variety in the shuttles/fighters/explorers/etc.
dreamy tulip
I love the game as is
lime mesa
i dont really hate them. its just repetitive.
dreamy tulip
But emphasis on the word "potential"
supple wadi
I look less at the trees and more at the forests, so to speak
lime mesa
They are all the same except maybe a different angle and three different colours.
supple wadi
You're kidding, right? There are distinct differences between fighters/explorers/shuttles/dropships
lime mesa
I was never the type to look at the sky or down at the city or mountains and think 'That is beautiful' anyway.
i am talking about the pictures of planets and animals haha
and multitools*
supple wadi
Oh, sorry, lol
lime mesa
No. it is my fault, forgot to mention that.
supple wadi
Er, the multi-tools also display a decent bit of variety between their types too, imo
dreamy tulip
My favorite aspect of NMS is finding those jaw-dropping beautiful sights
lime mesa
I barely see any new ones
dreamy tulip
I mean, it could happen in vanilla... I guess. But no where clear to the overhaul mod
or E3
lime mesa
I, for some reason, always get blue or red multitools, or i get the alien one
They also always have like a maximum of 8 slots.
supple wadi
Yeah, some of the weighting on what rolls out is really finicky
lime mesa
This game has a lot of problems that still needs to be fixed and i just don't think that will ever happen.
Well, i am going now, before i make everyone even more depressed ๐
good night
supple wadi
I'd have to ask Ket, but I think some multi-tool types may be more common to specific races, or the system wealth
lime mesa
@dreamy tulip E3?
supple wadi
I know certain classes are, but not sure of type
supple wadi
Omniverse, E3 is RaY's specific obsession, lol
lime mesa
There are all old backgrounds of mine ๐
dreamy tulip
I recently re-made the biome on that last pic
lime mesa
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/qw1wUKjXaic0sgdUK-RQkTu2PwU9dXWUHqTIJ1TPi-E/https/nmswp.azureedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Creature.png?width=400&height=225 Never seen this one before.
dreamy tulip
SPEKIRA II
lime mesa
?
lime mesa
๐
supple wadi
I wish HG had shown fewer lush planets
dreamy tulip
and grey atmospherics
dreamy tulip
Tbh, if they had been what was... (with those kind of rules and variety) it would be a lot more interesting
I don't think that the promo materials would take away from it
But
idk
supple wadi
I have a personal vendetta against lush planets thanks to over-saturation over on the subreddit, lol
dreamy tulip
Oh haha
I like all the biomes, but I least like toxic
idk why
I like that grey terrain
lime mesa
Now that I think about it, I really have no idea why i liked the e3 game so much to begin with.
dreamy tulip
lime mesa
i just came back for this lol
supple wadi
Nostalgia skews some of it, I'm sure
Obviously not all, but anything reflected upon is subject to that
lime mesa
Yes, but i am trying to think back to why i wanted the game so badly besides it being a space game but there is none
Maybe i forgot? Maybe i never had one?
dreamy tulip
The vibe of walking in a painterly sci-fi novel, the mystery, the lore
supple wadi
Because it's literally one of the few space games to let you go from planets to space and back again, all the while letting you disembark your ship and properly walk about the planets for a change, lol
dreamy tulip
The DR Seuss book telling you.. "Oh, The Places You'll Go!?"
Oh yeah, that too
Haha
Before the rest came
supple wadi
Freelancer and Infinite Space all had me pretty captivated with the idea of being able to visit planets, but then to realize that it was a very literal, limited sense of visitation, oof
dreamy tulip
The hype was crazy tho, I remember seeing someone asking if Namek, Krypton, and Earth was in there
Lmbo
lime mesa
me too ๐
lime mesa
Icecream? It is like 6c here. I can not get any ๐ฆ
dreamy tulip
Thank you
supple wadi
Was thinking of the right area, but like I mentioned, haven't really experimented with these too much, so giving that a try now
dreamy tulip
Oh cool. I'd be happy if ya figured it out
supple wadi
On a different note, you know the thing that, if they ever brought back something akin to GcPlanetData, I'd like to see?
Either: built-in voxel gen lists (not sure if that's how that was set up before), or simply a carryover of the Min/Max setup we now have into them. That's a major fault in the old approach, imo.
๐ฎ Well that's different. I reloaded without my terrain research mod and appeared under the world but apparently if you do that with a deep sea style world, you can just swim up underneath the seafloor and bring yourself back into the world proper
dreamy tulip
Oh, I see.
Yeah that would be interesting
Um
And yeah haha
Happened to me a few times haha
But was weird
Sorry typing with one hand
Eating lol
Figure anything new out with the terrain?
supple wadi
๐คฆ I should have adjusted the nightly appearances of these creatures
lime mesa
How long would you guys be willing to wait for the next update if Hello Games says they are going to overhaul the engine?
supple wadi
I don't think they need to overhaul it too much tbh
supple wadi
lol, no, something else
supple wadi
That too, hmmm
You know what I'm surprised isn't a Feature in the biome files? Islands. ๐ค
supple wadi
Yeah, know about the frequencies & voxel gen, just still...I'd think they might slip that into a GridLayer
dreamy tulip
You can do it via grid layer
supple wadi
What I'm getting at though is that it isn't set out as its own thing, essentially, lol
supple wadi
<Property name="GridLayers">
<Property name="Small" value="0.75" />
<Property name="Large" value="0.75" />
<Property name="Resources_Heridium" value="1" />
<Property name="Resources_Iridium" value="1" />
<Property name="Resources_Copper" value="1" />
<Property name="Resources_Nickel" value="0" />
<Property name="Resources_Aluminium" value="0" />
<Property name="Resources_Gold" value="0" />
<Property name="Resources_Emeril" value="0" />
</Property>```where ya at islandssssJust got back sorry
cyan oracle
Since I haven't seen a crashed ship locator mod since Foundation..
worn bison
That's cool!
cyan oracle
Thanks guys ๐ the spire has UV scrolling effects on it too.. should be easier to find one during the planet's night time; but I have to try a better planet when I wake up in the morning cause the one I'm on now has crash sites far and few in between..
echo oxide
๐
cyan oracle
ofc, I think the reason we haven't seen this mod any more is because HG made it fairly easy to find the crash sites w/ the NPCs at trade stations + Transmission towers
echo oxide
Maybe smoke plumes could help?
cyan oracle
I could give that a try tomorrow too
supple wadi
It's surprising how effective the smoke from the debris pods is at drawing your eye sometimes
exotic violet
How do you find crash sites from npcs at trade stations? They just send me to ops centers and the like
inland sky
they can send you to transmission towers
which can then either send you to a crashed ship or a freighter after you solve the "puzzle"
npcs can give you the coordinates to 1 out of 5 building types every time you ask for direction: Transmission tower, Observatory, Operation center, Manufacturing facility and Trading post.
You can ask the same npc multiple times to get the rest, only 1 marker per building type. If the npc is stuck and keeps giving the same dialogue and marker, click leave to advance to the next dialogue
lethal fog
I'm going to have to figure out how to do some datamining for AthenaDB soon ๐จ
so if anyone has poked around the game files before some help would be HUGELY appreciated
inland sky
Pretty much the main thing I do :P
Start by downloading modding station and the newest version of mbincompiler
http://nmsmodding.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_Started is usefull
lethal fog
thanks @inland sky. I'll take a look at this when I'm back at my PC ๐