Sometimes I wonder why some people dislike instrumentals on Youtube
#nms-modding
dreamy tulip
Or cute videos of puppies
lol
I just enjoy it for what it is
or not enjoy it and focus on something else
@worn bison That would be cool
Did you know that the Oria V Rainforest Biome
Was recorded on a ps4?
But yeah
Nothing wrong with hoping HG's does something
But those who love nms will love it whether or not they do
At-least that's the way I feel about it
Like on my end
I've been obsessed with nms
since 2013
As I am to this day
After release, I had my moments of wishing some things made the base game
But I've always supported HG's
Never spread angry rhetoric like some do
Not everyone is the same
And I'm not saying it makes me better than anyone either
But
I'm saying that you can't tie a lasso to a fickle community
of uniquely individual human beings who feel how they want to feel and will do what they choose to do and say what they choose to say
supple wadi
It's not that I'm ignoring the positivity, mind. It's just obvious that an easy way to fire up both enthusiasm and resentment is to bring up prerelease. And there's so much potential without even referring to it, why bother to go that route simply because for you it's inspiring & hopeful? 🤷
Like the whole cute puppies thing is a great example insofar as I may prefer to discuss other animals I find cute. I kinda see it like we have a cool game with limitless possibilities and everyone's spamming, "cute puppies!" when we could also be talking about cute blobs, kittens, red pandas, etc.
worn bison
I want Oria V Rainforest lol
supple wadi
God damn it Matthew, lol
worn bison
😂😂
lone spire
I just think, until the game has enough substantial content to satisfy most of the people who own the game... There isn't much else to talk about... When E3 comes up, people will bring up all kinds of pre-release shit, because their feelings on the game haven't been adequately "updated"
supple wadi
I want things that only the mist and vines makes me think rainforests while the "trees" are wtf!
dreamy tulip
It's a particular niche that attains to people who are also inspired by E3 or pre release in general.
worn bison
I think my frustration is that you are entitled to have the opinion that referring to prerelease is fruitless.
BUT peeps still gonna do it. So whatcha gonna dooo lol
dreamy tulip
It's really as simple as
If this is your cup of tea... "Go for it"
If it's not... "so be it"
supple wadi
I don't think it's fruitless, just a dead end, dead horse that's been beaten to death & back.
lone spire
Except you know humans are far more complex than black or white feelings
so it clearly isn't
worn bison
But people still gonna beat it yanno
supple wadi
like we obviously reanimate it just to beat it back down and aaahhh
dreamy tulip
And about the whole resentment thing
That's not at the fault of E3 lol
It's at the fault of people acting out
supple wadi
Ummmm.
lone spire
lmao...
dreamy tulip
And it's not our responsibiliity to regulate how people feel
lol
We just do what we love
lone spire
Actions have consequences, releasing a game that does not meet the expectations of millions, especially a game that promises so much... well, you shouldn't blame the people for feeling this way
dreamy tulip
People hate nms, just because it's nms
supple wadi
People resent that HG omitted that those things didn't make the cut, lol
dreamy tulip
Not I
Not a lot of others
Some people do yes
Some people resent HG after they worked so hard
lone spire
Yes because like 95% of the people who bought it moved on with life
dreamy tulip
Even w/o the focus of pre release stuff
lone spire
So now you see only the positive because most people dont care enough to go around making negative comments for no reason
supple wadi
95% of buyers reviewed the game negatively and moved on, lol
dreamy tulip
Like legit
lone spire
Man, it doesn't matter how hard they worked... If an album comes out, and it's shit.. you can't just say oh well at least they tried
dreamy tulip
A lot of people just do it for fun
like it's a hate train
Without even having E3 in mind
lone spire
It's the listeners fault for not enjoying it right? not the composer of the bad music?
supple wadi
That's some of it, sure, but a bunch of it is very much legitimate and influenced by disappointment.
It's not like a ton of people bought the game just to hate on it.
lone spire
No?
dreamy tulip
In otherwords
supple wadi
If that were the case the reviews should reflect mixed on steam, lol
dreamy tulip
There's are people who feel disappointed
There are people who don't feel disappointed
lone spire
Just because there are two categories doesn't mean they are equal. There are gradients of thought
supple wadi
Like we only just got to Mixed with recent reviews.
dreamy tulip
There are people who feel disappointed for different reasons... a lot being about E3, a lot not even being about E3
lone spire
Yep, and thats just the people who bothered reviewing
dreamy tulip
There are people who feel happy, about E3 and not about E3
So, are you going to say that every negative review on Steam was because of E3?
Or as a majority?
That's a bold statement.
Because from what I've seen a lot of people just bashed the game because most other people were
For numerous reasons
Because it was a trend
Heck, people who didn't even watch the trailers or play the game do it
Just because they've heard of it.
There are a lot of people who are excited at E3 (and hope to see a lot of those things make the cut)
I also see it all the time on FB
Like thousands of peole in those groups
The userbase is huge for nms
Lots of dedicated fans
Sure, there's some sulky people abroad
supple wadi
i mean you have some of that hope in part out of frustration and disappointment with what they got and what they have now.
dreamy tulip
But can't help how people feel lol
supple wadi
I mean hope's not just born of positive vibes.
dreamy tulip
Then let them hate
People will do what they do regardless
Those who appreciate NMS for what it is will appreciate the game
You're labeling "E3" as the cause/sole reason for why people are resentful of the game when it's not. You can't simply dismiss all the other factors that are involved and ignore the other personal reasons why a lot of people just don't like NMS or are negative about it... because you're sick of it
supple wadi
🤦 It's not about them hating, either. I just think each reminder basically has them shouldering on baggage that they might have been about to leave behind, for what the game is as it is.
lone spire
It's not the only reason, it just reminds people of the games rocky history.
dreamy tulip
It surely is for some people, it surely isn't for some people
supple wadi
Exactly, @lone spire.
lone spire
Also, you can't post a review on Steam unless you own the game. You're saying people are paying at least 24 dollars just to put a negative review up because it's the cool thing to do? No Man's Sky is disliked because of what it is.
dreamy tulip
Yeah, but wer'e talking about the word "E3" here
When people disliked the game for numerous reasons
Not just that
supple wadi
What it is, and in contrast to what it was shown as being, specifically at various E3 showings.
Which I think is in part what you're getting at @lone spire? For some the game isn't just the game, it's the game that misled.
dreamy tulip
Not entirely.
Some people have complained about them feeling a lack of story, a lack of things to do, a lack of this and that
And other reasons
Stuff non E3 related
A lot of people said a lot of things
Can't dismiss that
lone spire
They did say you could do a lot more than what we got
dreamy tulip
Sure a lot of it was E3 related, but so what?
Some people just hate on the game (on steam and outside of the game) because it'a a trend
Even though they did, so what?
lone spire
I mean people don't just forget things like "NPC bot AI that reacts to different words that you can try out" "procedural ecologies with emergent interactions between flora and fauna"
The game has none of that, and would be so much better if it did
It's not because it's a trend
There are a lot of bad reviews because a lot of people thought it was bad
dreamy tulip
For some people talking about E3 triggers, for some others talking about E3 does not and has a positive reaction
Hating NMS is a trend
supple wadi
I'd wager the bulk of it comes from E3/prerelease. The bulk of the reviews didn't come from a trend, they came from excitement inspired by E3/prerelease hype, which led them to purchase it.
dreamy tulip
Have you seen random people saying...
"No man's lie" "One man's Buy" and other nonsense
lone spire
It's a trend because a lot of people happen to dislike it overall
dreamy tulip
Sort of like a common thing that people do
Just because others do it
Or because of personal feelings
or whatever
lone spire
Okay, no
People don't dislike, criticise because it's the cool thing to do, or fashionable
lone spire
They dislike it because of the reality of what it is
dreamy tulip
Look at the comments man
It's all over man
Everywhere
On reddit, on twitter, on forums, on youtube
on fbb
People use the same lingo
about HG's
That's a trend
lone spire
Yes because the game flopped and disappointed lots of people lol
dreamy tulip
It's a trend lol
lone spire
a general direction in which something is developing or changing.
dreamy tulip
People do that and it happens commonly
lone spire
It is a trend in that sense
you are confusing it with
a fashion.
"the latest trends in modern dance"
Same word, different meaning
dreamy tulip
Okay, well I think you get what I mean though
That
People just do that stuff
Because they see other people doing it
In many cases
lone spire
Yeah, children lol
dreamy tulip
Not all cases
lone spire
But there are thousands of reviews with reasonable reasons why they are negative
dreamy tulip
I am by no way saying that Hello Game's didn't promise a ton of things that didn't make release
lone spire
some people post lazy positive reviews when they like things "this game is great!"
dreamy tulip
But I can say that some of those things have made it's way into the game
via patches
From E3
Thinking about E3 should give people hope
lone spire
those are the same people who post shit like "dis game sux, shaun is a bich"
dreamy tulip
Because HG's has been implementing these things
Yeah, that stuff is nonsense man
But it's not always laziness
It's just hate rhetoric at times
And sure, some of that may be because of stuff that happened with nms
But that doesn't mean that people should go around doing that
Some people just do it for the heck of it
like
You'll see people acting immaturely y'know
Bashing NMS
And some of these people probably never played the game
Happens all the time
lone spire
I'm not denying that some people do that. I'm just saying that the majority of the negative energy surrounding the game, from release to this day, is from people who own the game, or know somebody who bought it
dreamy tulip
That's reasonable, but there's no poll for that... and even with a lot of steam reviews
supple wadi
All I know is, for many people, this is what E3 really means in the context of NMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MIkeJgrbHU
lone spire
welcome to jurassic park
dreamy tulip
That video was funny lol
I laughed at it, not in a bad way
But it was just random that dinosaur all wonky looking XD
With the music
Anyway, That's what E3 means to a lot of people who are sulky about it
worn bison
I think the E3 trailer shows us the vision. And HG have been true in trying to deliver that vision, albeit it slower than we would like. So like RaY says I think it gives hope, and is something to get excited about.
But with every update, we get a bit more of a truer version of that vision. And that's amazing.
dreamy tulip
That's what I'm getting at
Yes
That's how I feel about it
Can't help how others feel
And I know a lot of people feel the same
worn bison
Exactly. People will feel how they feel regardless
worn bison
And even if they release NMS E3 VERSION tomorrow, people will still cry about what happened in the past. Can't help it
dreamy tulip
Yes exactly
You can do everything that can be done
And there will always be that one guy
who has something bad to say
worn bison
Yep. What's done is done. So 🤷
dreamy tulip
Because at the end of the day.... "It's not just the game, but the way people choose to act"
And some people act w/o giving a crap
worn bison
Exactly. And that's a common denominator in all gaming communities
worn bison
The true fans have passion for sure
dreamy tulip
A good example of that was
GTA V, when Open IV was targeted.... steam reviews went haywire
worn bison
RaY, Leon, Sanser. Love you guys but I gotta shoot out of this convo and sleep. Appreciate a good discussion as always. I think it's great when people hear each other out. We aren't all gonna agree at the end of the day which is the beauty of it. ♥️ Sleep tight and dream of diplos.
dreamy tulip
Have a nice rest
supple wadi
I'm not into hoping for old things. I'm more into hoping for the mystery, such as what the ARG alludes to.
But later Matthew!
dreamy tulip
I'm into hoping for anything that makes the game more fun to my preference
supple wadi
yes but we know it alludes to the future update, eventually!
lone spire
Night matthew
supple wadi
I bet they'll do better. 😛
lone spire
Haha yeah theyre gonna add all kinds of cool stuff, can't deny that
lone spire
I mean when Sean talked about things like saying the wrong thing to an NPC, then getting into a fight with one... SEems like they want to add some cool mechanics lol
dreamy tulip
Procedural Ship handling
Hello Game's remembered that from the past
Remembering the past is an aid for the future
It can be
Yeah
That's cool though
Oh, remember the monoliths?
Like answering the wrong question would give you damage
for eg
lone spire
Well yes absolutely lol. We are totally in the dark, I'm sure HG has daily discussions about all kinds of cool shit we can't fathom.
lone spire
and have probably been working on things since the game came out that are still not in the release build. most obvious being the new cloud tech.
supple wadi
The Monoliths are great, the only touch-up I'd like to see is a few visualizations of what's described.
dreamy tulip
But we're in the dark in regard to what we specifically will see
lone spire
Yeah for sure, but alot of the things they talked about have zero trace in the files
dreamy tulip
I'd like to see the mechanic shown at E3
Alike for the portals
At E3 the portals were seamless
lone spire
Yeah you can only go so far with trying to play detective in the game files
dreamy tulip
What would that be @lone spire ?
lone spire
I mean in the dark as in what we know about the games future/vision as opposed to what hello games knows
supple wadi
I feel like the only way that portal transition could ever work is if the portal was from one planet to a neighboring planet within the same system. They'd have to overhaul the underlying game to get anything like that for inter-system travel.
dreamy tulip
Though I've found a lot
lone spire
Yeah but I mean it's obvious they just didn't even have time to get started on a lot of things
like the hundreds of base creature models that were supposed to be included. yet most of the base creature models in game are those of creatures from very old trailers and videos
dreamy tulip
I'd like to see the water look like it did in the E3 trailer or better
That water shader was a lot more detailed than it is now
Alongside the clouds and atmospherics
lone spire
Yeah the game would need both systems loaded in memory I think
supple wadi
Like Atlas Rises showed they can port us around the 'verse independently of portals, to varying degrees, but it always demands a warp-load, because that's simply how the game is structured.
dreamy tulip
Actually, I disagree with that
the game can handle instantaneous travel
I've done it
supple wadi
That is, again, for inter-system travel, mind.
dreamy tulip
It doesn't need any load time
lone spire
between star systems?
dreamy tulip
Even in that, it could likely handle it yeah
HG's actually did it
They were just in the ship at the time so it would make sense
for the scenario
Portals can definetely be seamless
It's just an aesthetic that was added
Not an actual "loading time"
supple wadi
To clarify though: are you talking for between star systems or no.
dreamy tulip
Either
lime mesa
did HG ever remove the bug with portals where you can see dialogue that was cut
supple wadi
What you talked about above though, was that for between star systems?
dreamy tulip
Yeah that was for between star systems
supple wadi
Like, what you did?
dreamy tulip
Oh that, no that's not what I did
supple wadi
Because I don't doubt that we can do mostly seamless within a star system, it's between them that things get iffy.
dreamy tulip
But I have teleporting extremely far and it took like half a sec to render
And Sean pre release teleported
to another planet
And it loaded in the exact same timing
Real time teleportation
With coordinates
supple wadi
Yeah, see, that I don't doubt as a possibility. It's the inter-system side that gets iffy to me.
dreamy tulip
Yeah, it would get more complicated
But
The engine can handle it though
I mean
I'm saying the portal doesn't need a loading time
It can handle it seamless as is
It's just there to be there
supple wadi
Tbh they could do more interesting stuff with ship's getting wrecked and running out of fuel if portals worked more for inter-planetary travel.
dreamy tulip
For the same mystery that the clouds went from non pixelated to pixelated, alike the water going from high quality to pixelated
It's a mystery
Again, not saying that to be cynical
But it's just a mystery game decision
Meaning that the game should be able to handle it fine
If they diid it the way they did
lone spire
I think they just toned it down for performance reasons, seems like they never planned on keeping those clouds considering Sean is redoing the clouds
supple wadi
What I'm suggesting is that the way portals previously worked likely worked by being more to do with interplanteary travel, lol 😛
dreamy tulip
Idk about that
supple wadi
At least for the demo's purpose.
dreamy tulip
Because when the game first released it was toned down already
and performance was really bad
lime mesa
I'm still hoping they update the current clouds to at least be representative of what you'll find on the planet instead of removing them as you come in and also add some rotationary effects if they don't do it to the whole planet
dreamy tulip
And performance now is much better and it's toned up
lone spire
Yeah because they had a lot more time to optimize
dreamy tulip
- The really "would expect to be taxing planets" were recorded on PS4 and performed great at E3
lime mesa
for E3 stuff?
lime mesa
I know the first trailer wasn't though
lime mesa
the other stuff though? jeez
dreamy tulip
I didn't realize it until recently
PS4 is actually in the title as well
It was recorded on PS4
lime mesa
there's an old image of them sharing spawn in buttons with F2, F3, F4 etc
if anything it's a PC with PS4 specs or something. don't know but hang on
dreamy tulip
That's the thing, that video was recorded on a PS4 but they also had a ps4 dev kit
lone spire
oh on the whiteboard
dreamy tulip
There's also PS4 scene references on the PC version
Like a lot of this stuff is tucked away on the ps4 build
And some stuff is on the PC build too
dreamy tulip
One of the pre release mechanics is actually visible on
lime mesa
someone went over the text that was hard to read
dreamy tulip
the RC1 version
lime mesa
"beasts"
dreamy tulip
Ohhh I remember that
lime mesa
seems like beasts were largely removed, right? the creatures like the rhino were likely the beasts, and could've been an old type of animal that was cut before
lime mesa
so much insight
dreamy tulip
The rhinos are still there
supple wadi
🤷 Beast could also refer to any big fauna.
dreamy tulip
They're in the mod
But, not fully functionable as they used to be yet
Still looking into it
They do roar though as in the trailer
I like these too
Originally shown on Vesta Prime
lone spire
Striders?
dreamy tulip
Yeah
They were really big
But they are proc now, that's the particualy model setup
from the trailer
That I assembled
The mod has the E3 ones of different sorts
And also the proc ones
And some from "Louil"
Shown on Ign footage
lone spire
I dunno, I've seen them so many times lol
supple wadi
The iffy beauty of NMS right there, lol
Then again, I do tend to bounce from lively planets, so that probably helps. 😅
lone spire
The procedural generation is so bad at producing unique looking creatures that they would have been better off just hand crafting like 40 different creatures and allowing them to change color and size.
supple wadi
Yeah, they didn't tune it as well as they could have in some respects. =/
lone spire
Like I said earlier, I think it's something they were going to return to before release.. but never had time to do
Because Grant Duncans talks about it makes it sound so much more powerful than the swapped out limbs and heads that we have, with a very limited selection of skin patterns, parts, etc
supple wadi
I expected something more like the building and biome files for the creature setup, but it's a tad...Simpler, to say the least.
dreamy tulip
Yeah
I like knowing that they're out there
Just extremely rare
Only seem em once
supple wadi
I've seen the basic type occasionally.
dreamy tulip
What is the basic type?
lone spire
Hmm watching one of Grant Duncans GDC videos now
It seems like the IK morphing for creatures isn't working as intended, that would greatly increase the variety
GDC 2015
supple wadi
The basic type of strider is simply any strider, lol
Also yeah, Sanser, I feel like they kinda shot themselves in the foot showing the generation tools for creatures. I think that those were meant to be primarily backend, but we, or at least some of us, mistook them for how the actual generation was to roll out.
For that to work though, I suspect they'd have to have kept it more blackbox within the .exe, to some extent.
lone spire
Yeah it sort of follows when he talks about controlling the chaos
It's like they limited it too much
This is an interesting one
crazy to think that's from april, just 4 months before the game came out
supple wadi
So like, HG has these backend tools for generating all these different parts to then be assembled in-game, but it seems like they didn't get enough results they liked to put in.
Maybe, at least. 🤷
lone spire
That seems right
Just watch that video though, they talk about the stuff getting weirder towards the center, etc
supple wadi
I realized the other day that that could sort of be accomplished even with what we have in-game, but it would mean a more restricted traversal route through the game.
lone spire
Nobody seems nervous or anything, they seem like nice people, cheerful, excited about their game coming out soon.. so weird, what happened??
supple wadi
The interviews were probably taken at different times/earlier and then cut together much earlier than it was published, I'd have to guess.
lone spire
So much unused stuff is shown lol
supple wadi
I genuinely believe they didn't have much besides terrain/creatures/flora, the stations, and ships sorted up until nearer to release, lol
lone spire
Yeah for sure, it was sooo barebones
supple wadi
Like the most visible iteration, imo, are the structures. You can see them experimenting with so much with those.
"Is it just a landmark kind of thing? What does it do?" "Wait, what about interiors?"
lone spire
"shit let's take this out until we figure out how to give these a gameplay purpose"
supple wadi
Because stations aside, planetside structures aren't shown in much detail until only a few months out from release.
lone spire
Haha yeah, before release, whenever there was something like that, or something vaguely alluded to, I always assumed it's because they wanted it to be a surprise
supple wadi
That's when finally you step within one, and you're like, "Ah! There it is!"
dreamy tulip
There was a lot of talk about that
lone spire
But turns out it just wasn't done yet
dreamy tulip
You can see that mentioned here too
Same with the originally intended portal mechanic
Like
supple wadi
I'm pretty sure that the stations acted as a template for all other accessible structures.
dreamy tulip
You would enter through a portal (seamlessly) and it would take you somewhere closer to the center, to a more alienish planet that was rich in resources
Where you wouldn't be able to take your ship
So you'd have to go back through
But the further you progressed towards the center, the more alien like it would get
And also this was mentioned on HG's wiki prior to it being edited out
"The amount of life on planets will be factored based on their distance from their local sun, with planets far outside the habitable zone typically being barren of life."
I saved this text, prior to it being removed
"Any player will be able to visit a specific planet once they know its galactic coordinates, given their spacecraft has the capability to do so, and find the same features as any other player, as these coordinates serve as the seed for the planet's topography, environment, and flora and fauna. This also enables the game to be played locally offline in addition to online, as there is no server-side storage of the universe, with all details being generated on-the-fly as the user plays the game.[10] However, players will need to be online to register their finds to the Atlas.[8] Though the player may temporarily alter aspects of a planet, such as by mining resources, these changes are only tracked while the player is on the planet; once they leave, or when visited by others, the changes will disappear.[10] Internal game time will also play a factor, as creatures on planets will evolve, and effects of erosion will occur as the game progresses.[19]
This generation system can create a variety of planet ecosystems, including differing rotational periods, and behavioural cycles for the creatures.[10][20][21] The amount of life on planets will be factored based on their distance from their local sun, with planets far outside the habitable zone typically being barren of life.[10] Not all stars will have habitable planets, but will still offer potential opportunities for resources to the player if they can survive its inhospitable atmosphere.[11] The developers aimed for a 90–10 rule: about 90% of the planets will be uninhabitable, and of the 10% that do support life, 90% of those will only be mundane lifeforms, making the planets that thrive with a vivid ecosystem rare within the virtual universe.[22]"
This was written before release
lone spire
lol yeah makes it sound awesome
dreamy tulip
I would love that
I love that video too
Iiamchiame
That planet 😛
But that video is inspiring
😍
supple wadi
Oh, right, but yeah re: center stuff. They track our number of warps, and our distance to center, based on those alone they could try to adjust further in encounters.
supple wadi
Like it's stupid obvious when you take a moment to think about that.
dreamy tulip
The generation would be cranked up
and more wild
the further you progress
More alien like
That's what they originally intended
supple wadi
The minor problem is that the generation is sort of "set" from initial load-in.
lone spire
Yeah it would be a huge game changer, something to drive you to keep playing
lone spire
Well that's if you assume that the generation has to scale with the player
dreamy tulip
If they originally intended it, I bet they can actually do it though
Kushimasho, they talked about what the old wiki talks about
too
lone spire
It could get more difficult towards the center, driving you to get upgrades, that was originally the reason you would need upgrades, because things get harder towards the center, in addition to weirder generation
dreamy tulip
"The amount of life on planets will be factored based on their distance from their local sun, with planets far outside the habitable zone typically being barren of life."
In that vid
Not word for word but the same concept
supple wadi
This is what I meant earlier when I said you might have to lock down the traversal paths a bit. So limit the stranger stuff to other stars, which are then only accessible after a certain amount of warps & possibly within a certain distance of the center.
They've already done this to a certain degree with the revamped Anomaly progression system.
lone spire
But that doesn't make sense, how does that work with multiplayer? You mean the planets should be different depending on the path you take?
supple wadi
No, not that, it's just how you create that "closer to the center, stranger stuff" vibe.
You limit the stranger generation to certain star systems, which are only accessible after so many warps, via improved warp reactor.
They already have that now, just without as much of the stranger generation stowed away in red/green/blue star systems.
lone spire
The way I think they'll do it, is have several "rings", based on what they've done with ships, multitools, it will probably be in classes like C, B, A, S. four rings of planet weirdness classes. You could possibly find some S classes on the outer ring, but the majority would be C class for example
So the S classes in the outer ring would be blue or green stars, but in a closer ring they might be in red stars
then at center, even yellow stars could be S class
I think we're on the same page lol
supple wadi
Ah, so kind of give star systems a sort of "anomalous" classing.
lone spire
Yeah, it seems to make sense the way they sort of lump things together right now
supple wadi
Yeah, that's another viable approach, possibly.
lone spire
like yellow stars have certain probabilities, etc
dreamy tulip
I'd be interested in seeing generation in-between biomes and planets and terrain and fauna
be more alienish
the closer you get to the center
and weather + atmospherics
Alongside what you shared
lone spire
Yeah, the "tag" system that grant duncan mentioned in some videos would have allowed for things like that
The way that creature templates are setup in the files, and biomes, etc, it is much more limiting
dreamy tulip
Yeah
I think it would encourage exploration more too
Like
Did you ever see that video?
The Scifi inspirations one
Where they also talked about it
lone spire
Man I've seen like every video released before the game came out
dreamy tulip
Same here
They gave the vibe like
When you first start off
The planets and fauna would look familiar
less alien like
But the further you progress
towards the center
The more alien it would get
Sounds awesome lol
lone spire
Yeah like extra legs, mutations, etc
lone spire
Creature overhaul will happen eventually, I'm sure they'll do something like that
supple wadi
I want more infrequent life in general. >_>
lone spire
I mean what better source of inspiration than their original plans lol
lone spire
Maybe in some systems, but I think that is kinda a low ratio overall
dreamy tulip
The 90 10 sounds cool
lone spire
Yeah the fauna shouldn't be clumped together lol
supple wadi
Yeah, that's why I said -esque style, not exactly that, but eh.
dreamy tulip
Makes those moments more special
lone spire
In real life animals don't just stand around, they try to remain hidden
you shouldn't see them all over
but give us cool ways to find them
let us scan poop to track them down by scent, or follow footprints, etc
or scanners like subnautica
with 3d map
make exploring planets cool damnit lol
dreamy tulip
What interests you the most about nms?
lone spire
The scope of the universe, the fact that I can go to other planets. But it doesn't capture why I would want to visit other planets. Just being able to go to other planets isn't really enough.
lone spire
A lot of the things Sean said about the game, like the ecology aspects, weirdness of procedural generation, animals eating other animals in unexpected ways, etc that didn't happen are what made the world feel maybe a bit more empty than it really was
dreamy tulip
I love that sense of wonder and exploration and the things that you might discover along the way. That walking in a painterly, 80's scifi novel vibe. Being immersed in it as a stranger in a foreign land... almost as if you're actually there without any idea of what to expect. It's like walking in a dream.
lone spire
I admit that the pre-release hype that I let build up by listening closely to sean did color my opinion of the game when it came out
lone spire
It is awesome to be able to just pick a direction and walk though
dreamy tulip
Yes
lone spire
not hit a border, etc
lone spire
I actually really like moons, they have a surface area larger than most open world games, but are small enough to drive around in a couple hours
It would just be cool if there were more things going on on each moon
Like I think they made a mistake by trying to get people to only spend a limited time on a planet
dreamy tulip
I like finding planets that I'd never expect at times
There's always "something" out there
lone spire
haha I watched the whole aqua prime when you first posted it
dreamy tulip
Nice
lone spire
You make any videos of exploring a planet with really deep water?
dreamy tulip
Yeah, I really like that planet
Was just different
I've found some with really deep water, but not sure about videos
actually
yeah
I have a few
There's this one
And this one:
https://youtu.be/dFQPKcL1uA4
Or here:
https://youtu.be/8O1blyso20g
But I've seen deeper before
Like extremely deep oceans lol
lone spire
I'm curious, what are the default limits to height that the game can generate? If I remember correctly, Innis Mckendrick said that there is a displacement map that can raise/lower the terrain within the limits of one KM, then with the diggable layer of voxel terrain of 128? meters on top of that.
dreamy tulip
I know that if you set the terrain to be too high there's a lot of clipping that occurs
Not sure about the exact meter count though
frosty vine
I wonder if that can be surpassed
and we can get like super massive mountains and caves
dreamy tulip
Well, they can already get really tall
prior to clipping
@frosty vine
https://youtu.be/2rzTP6-9_L4?t=17
lone spire
Is there a way to increase the generation area? right now it seems like planets follow the pattern of repetition every 2x2km or something, it makes continents impossible to generate.
dreamy tulip
Yeah, it's possible to make larger regions
dreamy tulip
My mod does that
Like there's infinite terrain variety with it
It's possible for a planet to be really rocky, then shift to sand here and there, and mountainous, then shift to an open grassy field, all the way up to forests
for example
frosty vine
Mountains seem to really be sin-wavy, especially on your video there
dreamy tulip
Oppressor11 also took this
I like seeing flat planets sometimes
in the game
Can be pretty
frosty vine
I don't know how I was lucky enough to get that haha
dreamy tulip
That planet was full of sand dunes
With little oasis's
With trees and grass and fauna
and then underwater in the holes
frosty vine
is it possible to make a version with rougher terrain throughout?
dreamy tulip
I'm considering that
frosty vine
not like super crazy un-walkable terrain, but rougher.
more realistic. These planets are cool, not bashing your hard work, but they just look to sin-wavy
and boring because of that
dreamy tulip
Actually
frosty vine
haha
frosty vine
super rare i guess, yeah
dreamy tulip
But what I have not found yet is
Looking for it
Stuff like this
Super old photos
frosty vine
I hope one day, you'll consider another terrain overhaul, considering you've been adding to everything else.
Never find anything like that anymore.
sometimes similar, but nothing that rocky
Darconia's versino
frosty vine
rememebr that old version from a long time ago though?
dreamy tulip
It' just old though
frosty vine
hmmmmm
dreamy tulip
Not my new one
So, the old terrain overhaul I made is still floating around
That's what darconia had
he added it in there
frosty vine
so it's all in there, just scattered around more I guess?
dreamy tulip
I mean
You can use it
If you want
Might have to dl darconia to get it though
I don't have my old file
frosty vine
Why not?
dreamy tulip
hdd failures
frosty vine
i should do that too
dreamy tulip
Doing more to the terrain
frosty vine
I have like 20 versions of yuor mod on my desktop
dreamy tulip
I legit find something mind boggling
and think
"Ehhh, maybe not"
"It's fine as is"
lol
frosty vine
you should go for it though, I don't know. You got a lot of other stuff you're working on, but I'd say it's worth it
dreamy tulip
But for the heck of it
I want to try the old version again
Because my biomes also have terrain rules
In itself
So
frosty vine
oh
dreamy tulip
I'm thinking I could find new stuff too
frosty vine
yeah
frosty vine
can you find that version?
frosty vine
but he vanished
and was a dick
and he took all that stuff with him.
He had something there though.
some crazy things, but they weren't finished
dreamy tulip
I'd rather not get into that
supple wadi
I tried encouraging them to get back into releasing stuff, but yeah. >_>
lone spire
Has anybody figured out how to add aditional parts to the flora and fauna generation?
dreamy tulip
I was planning to try
Never got around to it yet
I've done so a bit with npc's though
But reverted it, as that ended up not being something that I was looking for
lone spire
Ahh
supple wadi
Outside of animated parts, it shouldn't be too difficult for someone with the modeling chops.
But we've hit a sticking point with part of the collisions. We could give some parts either no collisions or really crude collisions, but not more form-fitting ones. =/
And we're not really sure what's off about the method we're using on that, unfortunately.
frosty vine
oh well, though... I don't get what's so important about collisions tbh
Like I guess they make objects feel more real
but at this point... why bother when it hinders so much
lone spire
At one point didn't large creatures have no collision?
dreamy tulip
Yep
lone spire
So RaYRoD how long do you think you'll play the new update for until you start to rip into it and mod?
supple wadi
It depends on what it is, really. For animal ornamentation, you're probably right. For something like a solid plant with a trunk (not necessarily a tree), though...
Sorry, keep having to remind myself that ornamentation is the word for animal parts that appear to largely be decorative.
lone spire
How many ornaments are there?
supple wadi
Uh...Off the top of my head, I'm not really sure.
I'd say there have to be approximately 30-40, maybe? Probably totally off.
lone spire
looks like 23 mbins in the accessories folder
But I think each one contains several models
supple wadi
That's just the materials tho.
lone spire
Where are the meshes stored?
supple wadi
Approx. 54, I think.
Scene files.
That's just going off a quick search for the mesh tag in the scene file.
So may not be accurate.
lone spire
Cool thanks
I don't currently have the files extracted, hard drive space issues forced me to delete them, I just have the directory of the extracted files from the modding discord
supple wadi
Aah, gotcha.
lone spire
Does the NMS modelviewer work with the 1.38 files?
supple wadi
I wasn't too off, so that's nice.
lone spire
hehe
supple wadi
To a degree, yeah. It has some issues with procedural parts.
lone spire
Ahh
I have a feeling the structure of the files might change quite a bit with the next update
If I remember correctly Atlas Rises did something like that? Was constructs ever updated to work with Atlas Rises?
supple wadi
It may have been, but if so, without collisions.
lone spire
Okay, if I remember correctly when I had constructs before AR came out, like a couple weeks before, there were no collisions
could walk right into skyscrappers
supple wadi
But yeah, Atlas Rises added in several new structs to entity files, and I think only one for the scene files.
Aah, well, maybe then it is updated? 🤷 I haven't kept up with it, lol
lone spire
I think msrsgtshooterperson hasn't worked on nms since before AR
on reddit people thought his silence was from being hired at hello games
but he confirmed that no he isn't working there
supple wadi
Yeah, they got caught up in some other stuff, and just enjoying some other games in general.
supple wadi
I held off on some modding stuff for a bit just so I could wrap up Nier: Automata and the Atlas Rises story, myself.
lone spire
I'm a bastard and my skills can't currently apply to what is posisble with modding EX: adding more procedural music
If we could add things like new leaf textures, etc I could definitely start modding too though
Gmr_Leon if you don't mind, how many models are there for tree trunks?
It seems like there aren't a lot
for lush biome
supple wadi
Uhh, hmm.
dreamy tulip
For the lush biome alone?
supple wadi
lone spire
Not bad
I feel like 5/10 trees are that one that looks like a potato with branches cleanly cut off... im sure you know what im talking about lol
dreamy tulip
In Atlas Rises the lush biome only uses the medium tree
Which picks a combination of certain parts
proc parts
lone spire
Ahh how many parts are available in the medium tree category?
dreamy tulip
I could check in the model viewer, but it's not working atm after this new windows install
I would*
I could check the descriptor
lone spire
oh okay no prob
dreamy tulip
However
On older versions
Often the large tree was used
or small tree
lots of combinations
there's also unused tree models
in that directory
models > planets > biomes > common > trees
But the unused one I think isn't proc
Which is treelod
supple wadi
But then there's also an interesting sub-type that may or may not be implemented (would have to check) called skinnedtree that uses a different style referencing some other trunk scenes, in which you can find 181 trunks.
lone spire
I wish the tree models were like, moldable/stretchable, like the parts were in spore
like just make the trunk taller on some
dreamy tulip
and skinned tree yeah
lone spire
instead of fully scaling the model
supple wadi
Is skinnedtree implemented? Haven't loaded it in viewer to see.
lone spire
Hmm that sounds like something they might have used for testing, or maybe even a more flexible sort of tree
dreamy tulip
Ohh yeah
Just got the model view to work
and yeah
Skinned tree has a lot
no it's not implemented
lone spire
Screenshots?
supple wadi
Aah, okay. lol
lone spire
ahaha i can see mr potato tree through the mess
lone spire
like the little procedural bushes with interchangeble leaves?
dreamy tulip
Some plants can have the appearence of trees
As some tree models have for example
1 sec
Some plants have that same leaf type I mean
supple wadi
Huh, wait a sec, skinnedtrees looks like a different approach to what they implemented in a different fashion, tbh.
dreamy tulip
You could emulate the look of a tree with the plant
That's a tree though
In the pic
lone spire
What makes it different in your opinion?
Yeah those trees were everywhere when I used shaidak generation lol
dreamy tulip
I have an alt id biome type as well
Still working on it
Shaidak uses the proc
w/o forcing a particular appearence
But it usually pics those parts
The descriptor file actually has a chance value
not utilized
supple wadi
lone spire
is that just an instance of there not being a lot of parts for it to choose from?
dreamy tulip
I don't think so
lone spire
oh I see what you mean, the descriptor has a low probability of picking other things
supple wadi
Er, wait, when you say it's not utilized, ya mean just with flora or...?
lone spire
okay so you just get that lily pad type thing
supple wadi
Because I'm pretty sure it's functional, just...Yeah.
dreamy tulip
But the model's in the files
In otherwords
The lush biome
On AR
is only using the medium tree proc model
And not smalltree
or largetree
or skinnedtrees
or treelod
lone spire
it's been gimped lol
dreamy tulip
On the previous nms versions it used others
And they are all different proc models that give different appearences and vibes
It's really nice how much of a difference these models can give though
That grass is also an unused grass type
lone spire
lmao is that marijuana growing on the trunk?
supple wadi
dreamy tulip
Skinned tree
The bottom in orange
Is one of those bulbs
That you see on some tree types
lone spire
how many different "bulbs" are there? It seems to be either those, or the clean cut branches
oh and the climbing ivy
dreamy tulip
Haven't checked, but if you think about it
There's soooo many models
with soo many combinations
You could make thousands of
individual biome combinations out of them
if you forced them
Like
What I've been doing for this biome handcrafting method is
(one of many methods I have)
Is for my altid biome types
I'm specifying certain proc model combinations
while leaving half of the biomes proc
like the grass and plants and most rocks
It's just a type of biome I'm doing
So far I only did it for lush
and lushhq
I plan to do it for all
Here was one of them
Actually, I gotta find it first
supple wadi
dreamy tulip
I'll find it evbentually
lone spire
is that all the same bark texture just in different colors?
supple wadi
Hmm, might be. If so, that might be more to do with the Viewer.
It doesn't handle the textures super well, as I recall.
dreamy tulip
Found it on my twitter
That was one of my alt id biomes
Pardon the unused grass type blur
it's fixed now
supple wadi
I think radioactive and scorched, sometimes toxic, biomes are my faves in terms of flora though. They tend to get weirder with it.
Lush & frozen just feel too earthy for my tastes.
lone spire
Yeah and it's not like there isn't potential for them to "get weird"
is that an atlas station at surface level? lol
supple wadi
Might be a Monolith.
dreamy tulip
It's an atlas monolith
lone spire
oh haha
lone spire
yeah they were like right there lol
dreamy tulip
Looked awesome
But if you think about it
Which is one of the reasons why I'm doing it
With altids
Those proc models y'know
You can make so many combinations
And make individuals biomes with it
could make so many variations of that one biome type in that pic there
too
And they would all give a different kind of vibe
I would personally leave it half procedural, or some things procedural
So although the theme for that biome is still present
You can expect some things to be different each time as well
Which kinda also helps give different kind of feels
Here is another unused grass type
Two different kinds
They are both different proc grass models
I really like the new grass that was added on 1.3
But I like the other models too
that are unused
They look different
There's lots of grass types all scattered around
supple wadi
Tbh in your forest shots from a moment ago, I'm happy the second shot's trees aren't a standard thing. Feel off to me, personally.
lone spire
are those from swamp?
supple wadi
The first one's look to be.
lone spire
So the game seems to have two leaf types
The 3dish tropical type, and the 2d "clump" type
am I correct?
that nevada tree is using the clumps?
lone spire
like, the 3D ones are actual 3d objects that you can look around
the 2D ones are always facing the camera
dreamy tulip
They are like the normal trees
supple wadi
By the by, we can work with textures to varying degrees.
dreamy tulip
In the game
supple wadi
Got distracted with the trees stuff, lol
dreamy tulip
lone spire
Yeah so that screenshot has 2D leaves
its just a texture composed of a pile of leaves, which is placed on points that are tagged on the model as locations where leaves go
and it always faces the camera
supple wadi
I believe so, maybe even added to. I just dunno that we've had many people (recently, anyway) work with them. I think Nadalee and Krem are the ones with the most experience recently with that kind of thing.
lone spire
The 3D leaves are the ones that look like palm leaves
lone spire
yeah
the ferns too are 3d
because they're textures mapped to polygons
as opposed to a texture with an alpha map floating on a branch
I don't mind the 2D trees, jsut wish there were way more leaf shapes for it to choose from
and of course trunks of varying sizes to attach those leaves to
dreamy tulip
3D grass would likely be too taxing
supple wadi
But yeah, I think we can both replace/add to existing textures if we wanted to. It's just a matter of someone going for it.
lone spire
yeah the grass is fine the way it's handled too
could just use more variety again lol
supple wadi
sometimes i swear there's a mysterious high poly clump somehow in the grassy mix >_>
lone spire
So right now there's like 12 grass types, so I could potentially add like 50 more, and have them appear randomly when I go to different lush planets for more variety?
lone spire
Sorry I'm just talking about lush, not across biomes
dreamy tulip
Yeah for lush
supple wadi
Examine how they're currently handling it, emulate for compatibility but with your own style, and give it a go is about all I can say, lol
dreamy tulip
They just aren't all utilized
lone spire
I have very little spare time right now to figure that out, but maybe after the next update I'll have more time.
supple wadi
I'm more of an entities/structures guy, so I'm not super clear on how that stuff is handled.
lone spire
Aye gotcha
I must have been thinking of the amount of leaf chunks for 2d trees then. I remember counting a number lower than 15 for either lush grass or leaves lol
the specific number doesn't really matter
what matters is that the brain can easily recignize when it sees one leaf clump, then again on the next planet
even if its recoloured and attached to a different model'
supple wadi
other times it all blends together
It's really good at either recognizing all the variance or blurring it all together, lol
lone spire
lol yeah, to me it feels that overall, there is just barely enough variety
it's like they put just enough in for there to be some semblance of variety
supple wadi
Somehow I find myself noticing little clumps of flora here & there that I could swear I've overlooked before.
lone spire
like the animal patterns
there are seriously no more than 4
stripes, giraffe pattern, and just like smooth lol
dreamy tulip
What are you planning to do?
lone spire
its always the same stripes
supple wadi
🤔 Never really paid much attention to that.
I like looking around for aquatic/avian/insect-ish/alien-ish types tho.
supple wadi
lol
lone spire
a couple of them are recolors too
supple wadi
good thing i only look for'em for the wings!
cyan oracle
considering how rare butterflies are tho.. that works.. I don't think I've seen all those wing types..
lone spire
The thing is, having this low of variety
when somebody posts "found a weird butterfly"
its usually the same couple that are fictional butterfly shapes
supple wadi
this is why life should have been infrequent & properly rare. 😛
or at least animals.
maybe all of it, 🤷
lone spire
No it's why some billionaire benefactor should have donated 20 million dollars to hello games
You guys know those 16 different posts on reddit?
supple wadi
lol