UKRS2 in NML Dev Thread | Official OpenTTD Discord | Page 2

snow carbon Jan 11, 2023, 3:56 PM

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Go ahead

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Let me just push stuff to the Github

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aight, done

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 4:03 PM

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nice

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peckett b2?

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though if you have one already (from what i can see on the github you do)

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then mine could just be a variant

snow carbon Jan 11, 2023, 4:12 PM

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that one is definitely going to be considered. Ideally I'd have something slightly earlier, but that's a good option. Just lacking in stats

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 4:15 PM

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yeah it doesn't even have a wikipedia page

twilit geyser Jan 11, 2023, 4:25 PM

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Just a thought, if anyone fancies making some particularly new trains, but I've a list of 3... Two of which already operate in the UK, and I don't know if it's in this pack or not, the other two operate in continental Europe, but would be really well suited to the UK network:

Stadler FLIRT (already in UK) [Class 745s and 755s]
CAF Civity (already in UK) [Class 195, 331, 397?, 196, 197]
Alstom Coradia [France: Regiolis trains]

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 4:38 PM

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Ivatt development report:

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things are going well

vocal kettle Jan 11, 2023, 4:54 PM

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very nice

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 8:59 PM

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Ivatt 2-6-0 FINISHED

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looking through the github
huh, didn't know the tube trains came in 2CC

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they all are?! cool

snow carbon Jan 11, 2023, 9:30 PM

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Yup, all Tube Stock has always had 2CC, but for some reason, never got it applied in Company Colour mode

vocal kettle Jan 11, 2023, 9:44 PM

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damn that is curious

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are you gonna do the expansive rest of the tube roster?

snow carbon Jan 11, 2023, 10:23 PM

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I might borrow RUKTS sprites for it, but not sure

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not a huge fan of tube stuff myself, and don't wanna steal all of RUKTS for this set :P

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 10:24 PM

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what we have is a pretty decent selection of underground stock

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 10:30 PM

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tawny oar Ivatt 2-6-0 FINISHED

reminder that i finished the ivatt 2-6-0

vocal kettle Jan 11, 2023, 10:35 PM

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snow carbon not a huge fan of tube stuff myself, and don't wanna steal all of RUKTS for this...

I could do some new sprites closer to this style than RUKTS, as there are currently no sub-surface tube trains in your set

tawny oar Jan 11, 2023, 10:37 PM

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technically do with the 4-4-0 and 0-4-4 metropolitan loco's

snow carbon Jan 11, 2023, 10:37 PM

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You're free to contribute if you'd like! I'm more than happy to include anything that's drawn, it's just that tube stuff isn't necessarily on my 'wishlist', you know?

neat vessel Jan 11, 2023, 10:56 PM

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I was going to say, if we could get some of the sub-surface types of tube too that'd be grand

vocal kettle Jan 11, 2023, 11:17 PM

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nice

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 1:02 AM

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so, now that the ivatt small 2-6-0 is finished, whats next?

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:29 AM

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for the time being, i am making the standard 4mt largo mogul

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i'm using the GWR mogul as a base and kit-bashing the jubilee boiler, cab and smokebox on top

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:15 AM

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standard 4mt 2-6-0 finished

burnt valve Jan 12, 2023, 5:39 AM

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There’s more than one 4MT?

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:43 AM

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Yep

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There's the ivatt 4mt which came before the br standard one

plain island Jan 12, 2023, 5:44 AM

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dunno if this was mentioned already, but there's a bit of a gap in the 1880's where there aren't any new locomotives. Maybe something like the LB&SCR B1 could be added there?

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:45 AM

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0-4-2 tender engine?

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Seems do-able

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Though it'll have to wait till Tomorrow when my computer is turned on again

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Currently on my phone about to go to bed

burnt valve Jan 12, 2023, 5:47 AM

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tawny oar There's the ivatt 4mt which came before the br standard one

If ivatt is a tank then yes that’s the one i know

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:49 AM

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Nope, it's a class of tender locomotives

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https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/43106-SVR-cred-Tony-Hisgett-e1526724109648-747x420.jpg.webp

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 7:34 AM

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plain island dunno if this was mentioned already, but there's a bit of a gap in the 1880's wh...

Reminds me, a Stirling Single, either as a "body swap" for the Spinner or as an earlier loco, would be nice. Some early "races to the North"

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 8:09 AM

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plain island dunno if this was mentioned already, but there's a bit of a gap in the 1880's wh...

Oh yeah, good catch. Between 1873 and 1889 nothing gets introduced

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 8:24 AM

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Stirling Singles were introduced in 1870 but, built in batches in 1870, 1884 and 1894, so, seem to fit that bill too 🙂

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 8:48 AM

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a Metropolitan Vickers would be nice to have, too

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 9:41 AM

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Definitely

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I could try and make one from the SR CC and the 73?

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 10:18 AM

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snow carbon Oh yeah, good catch. Between 1873 and 1889 nothing gets introduced

Are there any other similar gaps? In fact, aren't there only 7 or so locos prior to 1889?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 10:21 AM

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twilit geyser Are there any other similar gaps? In fact, aren't there only 7 or so locos prior...

12 prior to 1889

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check this

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 10:21 AM

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snow carbon 12 prior to 1889

I was close enough. Still arguably too few?

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Are bold locos the ones you've added to the set?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 10:22 AM

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bold loco's are ones I plan to add but don't have sprites for

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 10:23 AM

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Ah, ok. Is there a code for locos that weren't in the original UKRS set or not?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 10:23 AM

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no but I can add something for that, give me a short while

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 10:27 AM

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I'm just compiling a list of all the pre-1890 UK locomotives that have Wikipedia articles, and then I'll extend it with those that have pictures.

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 10:34 AM

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twilit geyser Ah, ok. Is there a code for locos that weren't in the original UKRS set or not?

there is now

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 11:31 AM

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Question, can people use the filters here without needing any extra rights?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16vMzKuZGtlvkoHnnCJABeYOq5GVq1jD0U33m8C78EzI/edit?usp=sharing

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 11:32 AM

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Good question, I don't know.

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 11:35 AM

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frank kettle Jan 12, 2023, 11:36 AM

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I can

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 11:36 AM

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twilit geyser I'm just compiling a list of all the pre-1890 UK locomotives that have Wikipedia...

@snow carbon Did you see this?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 11:36 AM

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Yeah, send that list when you have it, please

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 11:37 AM

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There are a couple of post-1890 ones, but I think they're too important not to be in the set.

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Hold on, do we not have the LB&SCR A1s in this set???

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 11:43 AM

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Nop, we do not

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 12:51 PM

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So I'm working on getting dates a bit more detailed, and the locomotive that I think is the bases for the 0-6-0 Goods has been built in numerous iterations between 1867 and 1912

In the current set, we get the Long Boiler in 1855, have to make do with that until the Goods in 1873, which we're stuck with until 1911's Freight

What I could do is split the Goods into 3, one in 1867, one in 1873, and one in 1896

This way, we'd have more variety in cargo loco's in that period, and could always replace them later on with more varied designs of those era's.

Do, or not do?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 2:34 PM

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Made another update to the sheet, listed some new additions, some possible new additions, and did some research into introduction/retirement dates. There's still some missing, so if anyone can fill in any of the red ?'s on the right, please do

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 2:38 PM

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Oh, there are plenty of other goods locomotives from that era. I'm guessing the goods engine you're referring to is the LNWR DX Goods?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 2:41 PM

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No, the DX goods is not the 'Goods' Loco in Vanilla UKRS2

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 2:41 PM

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So... What is, and why don't we have the single most ubiquitous steam locomotive in the history of UK railways?

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 2:42 PM

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We get the NER 1001 as that era's cargo loco

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 2:42 PM

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Huh, ok... Well, I suggest we make use of at least one of the 943 DX Goods locos that were built between 1858 and 1872...

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Or the 500 Special DX locos that were built between 1881 and 1898...

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 2:54 PM

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If sprited, we could add the DX goods to 1858-1872, as an alternative to 1852's NER 1000/'Long Boiler', and the Cab or Special DX as an option from 1871-1898, as an alternative to 1873's GNR J6?

I'd still advocate for a new type loco to be introduced in the 1860s (currently have J7 for 1867) and 1890s (currently have the J5 for 1896), so you've got options that weren't introduced in the 1850s

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:52 PM

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I did also suggest the Stirling Single for the 1880s, as one of the batches was built in 1884, unless that is too similar to the Lady of the Lake/Problem or the Spinner. (Different generation to either IMHO but)

Could also suggest the Webb Coal Tank, or the Experiment (or follow up, Dreadnought) Class

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:53 PM

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neat vessel I did also suggest the Stirling Single for the 1880s, as one of the batches was ...

Oh, there are loads of L&NWR locos we can choose from. I'm still not even halfway through putting that list together, there are so many. And that's only the ones worthy of Wikipedia articles!

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:54 PM

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Well, I am an LNWR fan 😄

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:54 PM

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There are tons of other companies as well!

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:54 PM

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The Experiments and Dreadnoughts are interesting as they are "Double Singles"

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:54 PM

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Yeah, I still can't get my head round that Whyte notation...

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:55 PM

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Indeed, some GWR or GNR stuff from the period would be good. Midland all gets a bit...samey. Small engine policy being what it was

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:55 PM

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NBR, HR, CR, LT&SR, LSWR, S&DJR, etc.

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(Guess the acronyms!)

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:55 PM

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"Oh look, another 2-4-0, 4-4-0 or 0-6-0, how original"

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North British, Highland, London Tilbury Southend, London Southestern, Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway?

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*Southwestern

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:56 PM

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Too good!

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NLR?

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:56 PM

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North London?

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:57 PM

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Yep.

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:57 PM

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CR being Caledonian (missed that one)

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:57 PM

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L&SR (now this is an obscure one I only found out about this morning!)

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:57 PM

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The Caledonian Single might be another nice "palette swap" for the Spinner

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Ooh, um, hmmm

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Liverpool and, something?

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:58 PM

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It was absorbed by the Midland quite early on, hence the obscurity... Leicester & Swannington Railway

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:58 PM

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Ah

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:59 PM

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Nowadays known as the Ivanhoe Line.

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 3:59 PM

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I thought maybe Liverpool and Southport (couldnt remember the "S" name), the one that electrified quite rapidly

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:59 PM

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Used to terminate at Leicester West Bridge...

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 3:59 PM

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neat vessel I thought maybe Liverpool and Southport (couldnt remember the "S" name), the one...

You mean the Liverpool Overhead Railway?

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Ooh, the Liverpool Overhead Railway! We need some of their locos in this set!

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 4:00 PM

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Possibly? I might be thinking of the other one around there, that used LNWR electrics in the end. One and the same? Memory is fuzzy

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:01 PM

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well this one's gonna be interesting

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 4:01 PM

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Overhead_Railway

Liverpool Overhead Railway

The Liverpool Overhead Railway (known locally as the Dockers' Umbrella or Ovee) was an overhead railway in Liverpool which operated along the Liverpool Docks and opened in 1893 with lightweight electric multiple units. The railway had a number of world firsts: it was the first electric elevated railway, the first to use automatic signalling, ele...

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:01 PM

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im taking a crack at the gladstone B1

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it has driving wheens only two inches smaller than the gresley pacifics

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 4:01 PM

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Just checked. L&Y Electrification of the Liverpool to Southport route, connecting with the LOR. So, very closely related

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Good luck!

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:03 PM

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thank you

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idea for the B1

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a 0-4-2 version of the spinner or the lady

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OPINION NEEDED

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left or right?

frank kettle Jan 12, 2023, 4:14 PM

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I like the top more on the left but the bottom from the right

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:16 PM

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like this?

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@frank kettle

frank kettle Jan 12, 2023, 4:19 PM

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it is hard to tell tbh

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 4:27 PM

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neat vessel I did also suggest the Stirling Single for the 1880s, as one of the batches was ...

It turns out I'd made a mistake, the 'Spinner' is a Stirling Single :p

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I had it listed as a Midland Railway 115, but that one's far too late to be the Spinner

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:28 PM

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can't be a stirling

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wrong shape

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the stirlings never had a dome

twilit geyser Jan 12, 2023, 4:29 PM

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Stirling was nowhere near the only man to design a single...

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:29 PM

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i'd say its a johnson single

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the features match up better

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no outside cylinder, the yellow bit where the axle bearing is, the dome above the driver

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 4:31 PM

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This would all be a lot easier if the old pikkawiki was still up, it used to have a lot of uh

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"This vehicle is based on X!"

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 4:40 PM

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another thing that gives it away is the smokebox

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on the stirling the smokebox doesn't curve in with the boiler, it slopes out and around the cylinders

burnt valve Jan 12, 2023, 4:43 PM

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snow carbon This would all be a lot easier if the old pikkawiki was still up, it used to hav...

couldnt you just ask him?

vocal kettle Jan 12, 2023, 4:48 PM

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snow carbon This would all be a lot easier if the old pikkawiki was still up, it used to hav...

yeah they're in this discord, new tag tho

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Pruple iirc

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 4:50 PM

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Yeah, I know, just haven't gotten around to it. Managed nicely with research so far on most things, but will probably ask after dinner

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:01 PM

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right, how does this look?

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decided to go with the lady instead of the spinner as it was a better size compared to the tender

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 5:18 PM

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I think it looks good

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 5:21 PM

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yey

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in that case it is finished

plain island Jan 12, 2023, 5:58 PM

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https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n8.php Could this also fill the gap in the 1880's, maybe as a general purpose tank engine

LNER Encyclopedia: The LNER T.W.Worsdell N8 (NER Class B) 0-6-2T Lo...

Describes the LNER T.W.Worsdell N8 (NER Class B) 0-6-2T Locomotives

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 6:26 PM

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I have added a second tab to the document

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16vMzKuZGtlvkoHnnCJABeYOq5GVq1jD0U33m8C78EzI/edit?usp=sharing

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There is now a timeline

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showing what gets introduced when, and in roughly what class it fits

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italicized, underlined trains are suggestions that lack sprites. If just underlined they're suggestions with usable sprites

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bolded ones are ones I definitely want to have

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anything with neither is going to be included no matter what, since they have sprites already

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tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 6:40 PM

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reminder about the updated brighton belle

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the one on the guthub is still out of date

snow carbon Jan 12, 2023, 6:40 PM

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yeah, that's getting updated

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just haven't gotten around to it

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been mostly preoccupied with being sick and figuring out loco's to include today

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 6:41 PM

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ah ok

neat vessel Jan 12, 2023, 11:18 PM

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tawny oar the stirlings never had a dome

Well, okay, you're right that the Spinner is a Midland Railway 115 Class

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But

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Later in life the Stirling Singles received Domed boilers

tawny oar Jan 12, 2023, 11:20 PM

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yeah IK

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. . . honestly im surprised the single could haul a train that long

plain island Jan 13, 2023, 12:10 AM

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on the doc, what's the distinction between "Passenger" and "Express Passenger"?

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 12:21 AM

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probably the loco's top speed

plain island Jan 13, 2023, 12:25 AM

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ahh that makes sense

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 12:47 AM

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Essentially yes. Express Passenger is going to be your elite, top level express trains. Simply "Passenger" can mean any service.

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So, the 2-6-4T, Black 5 and 4-6-2 Pacific are all Passenger, but, you wouldn't want a Pacific handling suburban services, or a 2-6-4T on a long distance express, hence the different terms.

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 2:21 AM

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generally 90+ is express

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so that's the Jubilee, Klondyke(s) and the various pacifics

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anything below that is regular passenger

plain island Jan 13, 2023, 3:09 AM

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plain island https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n8.php Could this also fill the gap in the 1880's...

also if you're still looking for a ~1890s saddle tank, this could work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%26YR_Class_23

L%26YR_Class_23

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 5:03 PM

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do we have a B17?

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 5:08 PM

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Would be nice. I say that a lot, but, any Big Four or before stuff I welcome

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 5:09 PM

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mostly cause i wanna do this version of them

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wait hang on

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since when did they make it to BR?!

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 5:16 PM

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Ah yes, the Baby A4s

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 5:30 PM

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yep, thinking about making them for the grf

snow carbon Jan 13, 2023, 5:36 PM

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By the way

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anyone got feedback on some of the suggestions I've put in the document?

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I need to clean up the list soon, I think, make suggestions a bit clear >.>

snow carbon Jan 13, 2023, 6:42 PM

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okay, added a tab to track suggested locomotive additions, let me know if there's anything I should add, as well as of course your opinions on the additions

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 6:52 PM

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The brute. Large Freight Tank engine. Perhaps the 0-8-4Ts, what were they Robinson S1s ?

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Ah is that the same as the 8H you have as the Hump Shunter?

snow carbon Jan 13, 2023, 6:54 PM

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I already have the similar NER Class X (4-8-0T) and GCR Class 8H(0-8-4T) for 1909 and 1907 respectively, are there earlier options? (Pre-1900)

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similar, but different

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 6:56 PM

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Looking it up, 8H and S1 are the same class (8H was the GCR Class, S1 being LNER)

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So, hmm, something pre-1900 for that kind of weight class. Difficult

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Only thing that comes to mind is the LNWR Coal Tank

snow carbon Jan 13, 2023, 6:57 PM

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if none exist, that's fine

neat vessel Jan 13, 2023, 6:57 PM

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They were only 2Fs though, but, from 1881

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For the kind of heavy tank engines in that class, they all came into being around the Edwardian period. I guess coal traffic was at its zenith

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The GCR 8H, the NER Class X, the LNWR 1185, GNR L1, L&Y Class 32, etc etc, all between 1903 and 1911

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There is a Port Talbot one from 1899 but that's barely what you want. Yes pre 1900 but, eh

plain island Jan 13, 2023, 9:28 PM

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snow carbon I already have the similar NER Class X (4-8-0T) and GCR Class 8H(0-8-4T) for 190...

These are from 1896, so slightly earlier than the Port Talbot ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Railway_Class_H

Barry Railway Class H

The Barry Railway class H was a small class of seven 0-8-2T tank locomotives built for the Barry Railway by Sharp Stewart in 1896. When they were introduced they were the first locomotives in Britain to use the 0-8-2 wheel arrangement.

snow carbon Jan 13, 2023, 9:48 PM

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plain island These are from 1896, so slightly earlier than the Port Talbot ones https://en.wi...

👍 listed it, I think that fits

tawny oar Jan 13, 2023, 11:45 PM

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a very ungainly looking engine

modern walrus Jan 14, 2023, 4:17 AM

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Has this been released?

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Havent checked here in months

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:35 AM

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modern walrus Has this been released?

No, but working towards releasing a first version soon

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 3:19 PM

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Opinion Question time. Is this train primarily green (because the boiler is) or primarily blue (because the tender and the outside bits are)

burnt valve Jan 14, 2023, 3:20 PM

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mostly blue because there appears to be more blue pixels

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 3:21 PM

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sure, there's more blue pixels, but the blue pixels aren't mainly on what I would call the main part of the locomotive, hence my question

frank kettle Jan 14, 2023, 3:21 PM

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I'd say that the green and blue should be swapped except on the tender

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so currently green would be primary

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 3:22 PM

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you get both options, it's just a matter of deciding if this is the default/CC1 Primary option, or if swapped is the default/CC1 Primary option

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 4:11 PM

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i think that should be the primary livery

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 4:14 PM

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I've always felt that was a strange way to 2cc those locos but, Pikka be Pikka

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 4:25 PM

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Well this is an interesting turn of events

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i didn't know the lady has a stirling single style smokebox

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Meaning i can make the stirling single a thing

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and here it is:
the 4-2-2 Stirling

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:00 PM

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Noice

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I have had a thunk

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4-6-2 Pacific II (A3) - 1930
4-6-2 Princess Royal - 1933

Now, I love me a Princess Royal, I do, LMS fan boy right here. Especially with the Fowler tender. Woo. Anyway. But I've been thinking about what Fairy said about not having a bunch of nearly identical locos

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Now, the Stirling Single has that nice introduction date, slides right in to a lovely gap between the Lady of the Lake/Problem in the 1860s, and the Midland Spinner in the 1890s(?)

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But, I am wondering, are the stats of a Princess Royal close enough (for government work) that it could just work as a bodyswap variant for the Pacific II/A3?

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:03 PM

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neat vessel But, I am wondering, are the stats of a Princess Royal close enough (for governm...

No

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:03 PM

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Well, that answers that 😄

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I mean we have no (real, practical) limitations on loco IDs etc these days so its not an issue it being separate. I was just musing 🙂 and I am happy it being separate, as I said, LMS fan that I am

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Similar thoughts about a GWR King (which I believe is much closer to one of the two, I remember reading, I can't recall which though)

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:07 PM

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we don't have a 4-6-0 for that era

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well, we do

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the Royal Scot

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:07 PM

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the jubilee?

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:07 PM

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Jubilee is later

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King is 1927/28, Jubilee is 1934. Royal Scot is 1927

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:09 PM

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The King is sort of, well, yes it's a 4-6-0 but its something else really

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I am no expert on the GWR, from what I gather though, the Castle is the rough equivalent to the Black Five/Jubilee

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The King was the GWR showing off somewhat, "look!, we can do with a 4-6-0 what you guys need a Pacific to do, albeit with a rather mega axle loading for most of our lines"

#

I'll see if I can find some figures

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:14 PM

#

how would we do the GWR 4-6-0's though?

#

their all essentially identical

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:17 PM

#

``
LMS Jubilee - 26,610 lbf
LMS Royal Scot - 33,150 lbf
LMS Princess Royal - 40,286 lbf

LNER B12 - 21,969 lbf
LNER B17 - 25,380 lbf
LNER A3 - 30,362 lbf

GWR Hall - 27,275 lbf
GWR Castle - 31,625 lbf
GWR King - 40,300 lbf
``

I could find some SR locos to compare to but, I think the point is made. The King was mental

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:18 PM

#

Also

#

I'm getting to the point where soon I'll be able to start coding stuff

#

Need to run some tests on some things, then begin doing stats

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:19 PM

#

(tried to find relatively comparative types, albeit the B12 is older than the rest. Otherwise they're all 1920s and early 30s designs)

#

Ah that was it, sorry, yes, the Princess Royal was, much as it pains me, essentially a Pacific-ised and LMS-ised King

#

As the tractive efforts bear out

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:20 PM

#

I mean, I think its fine to include

#

Also if anyone wants to try their hand at spriting some of the tank engines listed in the suggestions page, I'd appreciate it

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:21 PM

#

Oh for sure. What I am meaning is, the King could be a variant for it, or it for the King etc, as my earlier thought was having for the A3 (I'd mixed up which engines were similar, of course, Stanier being an ex-GWR man, it'd make sense the Princess was a redressed King)

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:22 PM

#

Ah, but the Princess is a 4-6-2 and the King a 4-6-0, so I wouldn't make them variants of eachother

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:23 PM

#

Otherwise near identical though. Perhaps a 4-6-X 'Royal', and the variants could be 4-6-0 'King' and 4-6-2 'Princess'

#

As, wheel arrangement really means nothing in game, and sprite wise, well, you could have a variant of a Pug be a hovertank for all the game is concerned. Two express steam locomotives, introduced within 5 years of each other with exceptionally similar performance seems a bit...crowded, yet i'd still like to see more GWR representation (love all the tanks, but need some mainline engines to work the expresses and such)

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:25 PM

#

My issue with that is that it's a little weird to be doing that for just those two, when every other instance of variants actually being big variants are Multiple Unit Lengths and DBSOs/DVTs

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:26 PM

#

As always, up to you. I just think it's an area we could be tidy on, yet still have nice Big Four representation

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:26 PM

#

That is true

#

It's something to be considered, at least

#

But can't go much further than that without sprites :p

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:27 PM

#

Again i'd have to look up comparative stats (as I thought a Castle and a Black Five could be the same engine but, the tractive effort is rather different) but perhaps a 2-6-0 Crab/2-6-0 N Class pairing. Yes, this variant idea has given me much thought 😄

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:28 PM

#

Once I've got the first version with basic variants in, we can see if we want to go further with making more things variants

twilit geyser Jan 14, 2023, 5:28 PM

#

Weren't there some SR Express Tank locomotives at one point?

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:28 PM

#

The Ls, or was it the K? The River Class either way

#

The ones that swayed, badly, and fell over

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECR_K_and_SR_K1_classes

SECR K and SR K1 classes

The SECR K class was a type of 2-6-4 tank locomotive designed in 1914 by Richard Maunsell for express passenger duties on the South Eastern and Chatham Railway (SECR), which operated between London and south-east England. The Southern Railway (SR) K1 class was a three-cylinder variant of the K class, designed in 1925 to suit a narrower loading g...

#

It was more the track than the loco though, but eh, they got binned to save face

twilit geyser Jan 14, 2023, 5:39 PM

#

Didn't they get converted into tender engines, or am I dreaming that?

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:49 PM

#

neat vessel Otherwise near identical though. Perhaps a 4-6-X 'Royal', and the variants could...

i'm against this as well

#

wheel arrangements should be kept seperate

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:49 PM

#

twilit geyser Didn't they get converted into tender engines, or am I dreaming that?

Yes, 2-6-0 U and U1 Class Moguls

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 5:54 PM

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tawny oar wheel arrangements should be kept seperate

Well, fair enough. There was mechanically not much between them, just Stanier could overcome years of resistance to the Pacific type from the GWR after his switch to the LMS, and so expanded the King into a Pacific, making the Princess, essentially. It's not like the difference between a 4-6-2 and a 4-8-0 or somesuch (and even then Thompson managed to convert 2-8-2s into 4-6-2s)

A similar case would be those 2-8-0Ts the GWR converted into 2-8-2Ts by welding an extra frame on them. Mechanically identical, just, an extra frame with a trailing pony truck and bigger coal bunkers.

Far more difference between an A3 and a Princess, despite sharing a wheel arrangement, than between a King and a Princess despite them differing in it. But, as you wish, as I said was just a musing on how we could keep the build lists tidy and still have variety and representation of all constituent big four companies.

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:56 PM

#

thing is, the variants system was built for loco's to have different paint schemes/liveries

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:56 PM

#

well, no

#

the variants system was built to have variants

#

it's just I mainly intend to use it for paint schemes and liveries

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:57 PM

#

isn't that what andy uses it for as well?

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:57 PM

#

yeah but it's not like that's the sole use for it

#

it's a feature, people can use it however they want

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 5:58 PM

#

either way i dont think putting the King and Princess together is a good idea

snow carbon Jan 14, 2023, 5:59 PM

#

yeah, that I agree with

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 6:11 PM

#

This is why I did ask in the main chat what the variant system could do, and the essential answer was "its whatever you want it to do"

#

Now, the thing is, apparently we're having the LMS and LNER Garratts as variants?

#

(of a single loco)

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 6:15 PM

#

excuse me?

#

i haven't heard anything about the LNER garratt

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 6:46 PM

#

Here

#

Now, the LMS Garratts were a class of 2-6-0+0-6-2s with 4 outside cylinders, making 45,620 lbf of tractive effort. The LNER Garratt was a single 2-8-0+0-8-2, with 3 cylinders, making 72,940 lbf. Very different beasties

tawny oar Jan 14, 2023, 6:52 PM

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neat vessel Now, the LMS Garratts were a class of 2-6-0+0-6-2s with 4 outside cylinders, mak...

dont you mean 6 cylinders for the LNER garratt?

neat vessel Jan 14, 2023, 6:52 PM

#

3 at either end yes

#

Sorry should have specified, the LMS ones being two cylinder at either end

#

mixed up the way I was defining them

#

Garratts be complicated

neat vessel Jan 16, 2023, 3:50 PM

#

Just as a thing, I noticed this

#

I believe the basis Pikka had for the 0-4-0ST Industrial was a Peckett

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckett_W4_class

Peckett W4 class

The Peckett W4 class is a class of 0-4-0 ST steam locomotives built by Peckett and Sons at the Atlas Works factory in Bristol, England from 1885 to 1906. 140 Peckett W4 locomotives were built in total, and they were part of a family of six W-class locomotive engines (W2 through W7), which featured cylinders 14 inches (360 mm) in diameter. The W4...

latent quail Jan 17, 2023, 5:55 PM

#

electric loco stuff https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/149513-class-88-the-original/

RMweb

Class 88, the original

Evening, After doing a bit of research on the web I came across this list of unbuilt British rail locomotives and on the list was a class 88 which was basically an electric version of a class 58. I tried to do some more research into it but I couldn’t find anything. So does anyone have any more i...

tawny oar Jan 18, 2023, 11:02 PM

#

HST mail car Finished

vocal kettle Jan 19, 2023, 1:11 AM

#

Virgin Mail time

burnt valve Jan 19, 2023, 1:13 AM

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That’s how i travel CoolBiker

tawny oar Jan 19, 2023, 5:58 AM

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Uhhh, the other garratt sprite (the one with a regular bunker) is still the LMS garratt.

#

The LNER garratt was a 2-8-0 + 0-8-2, not a 2-6-0 + 0-6-2 like the LMS ones anyways

neat vessel Jan 19, 2023, 8:52 AM

#

Yes there seems to have been some confusion there

#

Which then confused me as, I thought variants were more...variable...than they are

latent quail Jan 19, 2023, 9:02 AM

#

variants are 100% variantable

#

but sets have to make choices 😉

neat vessel Jan 19, 2023, 9:35 AM

#

Oh indeed, I was meaning within this set

#

I thought we were going with "similar performance means a bodyswap" (alas, the LNER and LMS Garratts were very different anyway but eh) but, apparently we're sticking rigidly to wheel arrangements.

snow carbon Jan 19, 2023, 12:15 PM

#

neat vessel I thought we were going with "similar performance means a bodyswap" (alas, the L...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985098159795609610/1062389488019582976/variants.png

neat vessel Jan 19, 2023, 12:24 PM

#

Well yes, you brought in that and, cleared up the issue 🙂 that was after the mix up with the Garratts though. I know where we stand now though

#

and, given the tractive effort differences, an LNER Garratt might actually be worthwhile

neat vessel Jan 19, 2023, 12:25 PM

#

neat vessel Now, the LMS Garratts were a class of 2-6-0+0-6-2s with 4 outside cylinders, mak...

Note

tawny oar Jan 21, 2023, 11:05 PM

#

Got a new project idea

hypothetical_lner_c3__photoshopped__by_thunderwasp_dfkpbp6-fullview.jpg

#

the Hypothetical C3 atlantic

#

to serve as an alternate to the shire 4-4-0

#

aaaand it's finished

plain island Jan 22, 2023, 4:30 AM

#

tawny oar Got a new project idea

woah was this an actual proposal? if so it seems really cool

tawny oar Jan 22, 2023, 4:30 AM

#

there was a concept for a 4-4-2 when the shire class was being developed
then the LNER finance team pointed out that a 4-4-0 would be more economical

plain island Jan 22, 2023, 4:31 AM

#

unrelated, but could we maybe see the Jones Goods as an earlier (1894) heavy freight engine?

tawny oar Jan 22, 2023, 4:32 AM

#

plain island unrelated, but could we maybe see the Jones Goods as an earlier (1894) heavy fre...

this?

plain island Jan 22, 2023, 4:32 AM

#

tawny oar this?

yeah

tawny oar Jan 22, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

i dont see why not

#

won't be able to do it for a while as i have work tomorrow (and i will be dead tired afterwards) and on monday i'm taking my mum to her acting club

plain island Jan 22, 2023, 5:23 AM

#

yeahh no rush lol, just thought it'd be interesting/unique addition

snow carbon Jan 22, 2023, 11:51 AM

#

tawny oar aaaand it's finished

nice, though I'd also like for some of the listed suggestions in the document to be made

tawny oar Jan 22, 2023, 3:09 PM

#

currently got the K3 in the works

neat vessel Jan 22, 2023, 10:35 PM

#

Looking good 🙂

tawny oar Jan 23, 2023, 12:45 AM

#

LNER K3 Finished

tawny oar Jan 23, 2023, 2:51 AM

#

i have to say, the K3 IRL has to be one of the most ungainly looking engines ever made

neat vessel Jan 23, 2023, 2:50 PM

#

Not one of Gresleys prettiest no

tawny oar Jan 23, 2023, 5:56 PM

#

personal headcanon for the Highlander (P2)

#

i like to imagine that this one:

#

instead of being Cock o the North

#

is earl marischal in as built condition, without the additional smoke deflectors

neat vessel Jan 23, 2023, 10:17 PM

#

I figured that was the case too

latent quail Jan 23, 2023, 10:42 PM

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smoke detectors

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tell @bleak delta

tawny oar Jan 23, 2023, 11:26 PM

#

seriously this just looks horrible

#

i honestly prefer what Thompson did to them over this

bleak delta Jan 24, 2023, 5:30 AM

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but where is ukrs3 in nml

frank kettle Jan 24, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

Isn't that just regular ukrs3 tho

latent quail Jan 24, 2023, 7:02 AM

#

pruple doesn't nml

frank kettle Jan 24, 2023, 7:03 AM

#

oh

twilit geyser Feb 7, 2023, 3:24 PM

#

Is this dead or not?

tawny oar Feb 7, 2023, 4:21 PM

#

i dont think it is

#

@snow carbon ?

snow carbon Feb 7, 2023, 4:44 PM

#

It is not dead, I'm just dealing with personal issues (again) but I do still intend to finish this

twilit geyser Feb 7, 2023, 4:45 PM

#

Ok, that's fine. I was just puzzled as to why no-one had posted anything in two weeks. Not just Fairyfloss, not just Will, no-one...

tawny oar Feb 7, 2023, 4:46 PM

#

i've been ill for the last couple weeks

#

bad enough i couldn't do anything

neat vessel Feb 7, 2023, 5:06 PM

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I was just being quiet and waiting patiently

#

I could draw more but, i do have other projects, and I don't want Fairy to feel obliged to code stuff just because its been drawn etc. I work at their pace, not they at mine etc

burnt valve Feb 7, 2023, 5:10 PM

#

twilit geyser Is this dead or not?

projects can often go quiet for months, even years, without being dead))

tawny oar Feb 8, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

neat vessel I could draw more but, i do have other projects, and I don't want Fairy to feel ...

ditto, i just get random ideas that i can toss together every now and then

#

Personally i feel we have enough locos and stock for an initial release

tawny oar Feb 12, 2023, 12:33 AM

#

4-6-2 Coronation with smoke deflectors

#

always annoyed me how the non streamlined coronation lacked smoke deflectors

bleak delta Feb 12, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

the defectors have been detected

void roost Feb 13, 2023, 1:10 AM

#

twilit geyser Ok, that's fine. I was just puzzled as to why *no-one* had posted anything in tw...

BRSet went dead like 6 times in 15 years, with one partial release and then one full release after a decade... it's just the nature of small projects, if the developers are busy then they have to prioritise other things. You'll tend to find progress comes in bursts

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 4:43 AM

#

Has anybody got any idea how i can make a Duke of Gloucester that looks different to the britannia, since they are both BR standards?

#

biggest difference i could make is a new tender

#

(duke of gloucester)

#

britannia

burnt valve Feb 13, 2023, 4:57 AM

#

Funnel

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 4:57 AM

#

wouldn't be a big enough difference in OpenTTD

burnt valve Feb 13, 2023, 4:57 AM

#

Extra pixel

#

Idk

#

Make one darker

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 4:59 AM

#

i have one other idea besides a new tender
(original britannia top, duke tender bottom)

#

a complete boiler swap for the merchant navy's boiler

#

if i keep that dotted line of grey pixels i think i could pull it off

#

yeah that looks good

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 5:23 AM

#

And the Duke is finished

void roost Feb 13, 2023, 9:06 PM

#

tawny oar Has anybody got any idea how i can make a Duke of Gloucester that looks differen...

My advice: Don't sweat it

Even zoomed in on a static screen here the difference is minimal between your two drawings. Once shrunk down with all the other TTD stuff around it you won't be able to tell that small a difference, don't waste energy on it

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 9:06 PM

#

. . . i already finished it

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 9:06 PM

#

tawny oar And the Duke is finished

right here

void roost Feb 13, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

Yeah I referred to it xD I more mean in general, don't worry about that kind of distinction between units, it's too minor to matter

tawny oar Feb 13, 2023, 9:37 PM

#

it might be minor, but it helps to tell the difference

tawny oar Feb 15, 2023, 9:48 PM

#

Articulated Brake coach

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:38 PM

#

does antbody know what the "Hitachi A train" actually is?

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:38 PM

#

tawny oar does antbody know what the "Hitachi A train" actually is?

I think i worked it out

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:38 PM

#

yeah?

#

i figured it was obviously a hitachi of some sort

#

but the A train as its depicted doesn't exist on UK rails

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:39 PM

#

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_395

British Rail Class 395

The British Rail Class 395 Javelin is a dual-voltage electric multiple-unit (EMU) passenger train built by Hitachi Rail as part of the Hitachi A-train AT300 family for high-speed commuter services on High Speed 1 and elsewhere on the South Eastern franchise. The whole fleet is operated by Southeastern.
The Class 395 can operate at a maximum spee...

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:40 PM

#

i thought it might be that, but it can't

#

all the hitachi trains in the UK have the pantograph on the end units

#

meanwhile the one in UKRS2 has the pantograph in the middle of a not end unit

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:41 PM

#

Maybe an error

#

Ask pikka

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:41 PM

#

easier said than done

#

still, an easy error to fix

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:42 PM

#

tawny oar meanwhile the one in UKRS2 has the pantograph in the middle of a not end unit

Are the stats otherwise correct?

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:42 PM

#

oh IDK about any of the stats

#

and besides

#

there's more than 1 class of hitachi running around the UK now

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:43 PM

#

Oh

#

Ages ago

#

I wrote down what all the ukrs2 trains were

#

I’ll look at that

#

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800

British Rail Class 800

The British Rail Class 800 – branded by Great Western Railway (GWR) as Intercity Express Train (IET), and London North Eastern Railway (LNER) as Azuma – is a type of bi-mode multiple unit train built by Hitachi Rail for GWR and LNER. The type uses electric motors powered from overhead electric wires for traction, but also has diesel generators ...

#

I said it was this

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:45 PM

#

nope, that has the pantograph on the lead units too

burnt valve Mar 1, 2023, 11:45 PM

#

Ah

#

Then I’m out of ideas

tawny oar Mar 1, 2023, 11:46 PM

#

its probably based on them, but a pre-concept

void roost Mar 2, 2023, 12:13 AM

#

The UKRS2 "Hitachi A-Train" is based on the Hitachi AT-300, which is the basis for both the Class 395 and Class 80X series

The concept art for the IEP (which became the 800, 801, 802) showed the pantographs on the end cars

#

Presumably Pikka chose to draw it differently because UKRS is meant to be a representative set, not a direct real-world replacement - other units are the same, with differences to reality

burnt valve Mar 2, 2023, 12:21 AM

#

I always read representative as being representative of trains overall in the UK

#

Not as being representative of the idea of uk trains

void roost Mar 2, 2023, 12:22 AM

#

I think the simplest answer is that he probably just did it because that's how he'd drawn the rest of the set - the Pendolino, Electrostar, 321, 325 are all drawn like that. He may not have even thought about that detail, especially if it was drawn before the real trains appeared and he only had concept art to work from

#

When you're drawing a bunch of stuff eventually you're gonna take some shortcuts and copy + paste something without thinking about whether you could be accidentally copying an incorrect detail over

#

Honestly I don't think he designed the set with that level of precision in mind - the Sprinter, for example, has a Class 150-style commuter door, even though most sprinter classes had intercity-style doors, but the Sprinter in the set doesn't have the doors behind the cabs

The trains are meant to be similar to the real world units, but he deliberately seems to have avoided doing a precise like-for-like approach

burnt valve Mar 2, 2023, 12:32 AM

#

Like for like is near impossible at this scale anyway

tawny oar Mar 2, 2023, 4:48 PM

#

says you:

#

it might not be perfect

#

but its a darn sight better

twilit geyser Mar 2, 2023, 4:53 PM

#

tawny oar nope, that has the pantograph on the lead units too

To be fair, we refer to them as 80x Class. You may want to check all the related classes:
800, 801, 802, 803, 805, 807, 810

tawny oar Mar 2, 2023, 4:55 PM

#

the class 395 is also classed as an A train

#

and they all have pantographs on the lead units

tawny oar Mar 2, 2023, 6:26 PM

#

right got the 8 angles for the pantograph

#

now to fix the windows and paint scheme(s)

tawny oar Mar 7, 2023, 1:46 AM

#

as a question, does anybody know where the 604 came from?

#

i've found plenty of proof for the 5at's design but nothing for the 604

neat vessel Mar 7, 2023, 1:58 AM

#

I'm not able to find a thing either. Perhaps a Pikka extrapolation?

tawny oar Mar 7, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

i wouldn't be surprised if it was a work of fiction for the grf

#

i ask because i doubt such an engine IRL would use the coronation as a basis, as the 604 in the grf does

#

and im tempted to make my own version of it using the britannia or the duke as a base instead

neat vessel Mar 7, 2023, 4:59 AM

#

4-6-2 Black Prince ?

#

(Greater than a Duke, nice historic reference too)

tawny oar Mar 7, 2023, 3:47 PM

#

it would probably still be the 604

#

simply because i hate its sprite, its so lazy, just a badly recoloured coronation

tawny oar Mar 13, 2023, 1:30 AM

#

@snow carbon the non black streaks are still using the wrong tender on the github

#

with the water tank at the front rather than at the back

#

here's the fixed versions

📎 Streak_Fixed_Tender.zip

modern walrus Mar 14, 2023, 12:28 AM

#

I have once again returned to ask if this is released

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 12:30 AM

#

no it has not

modern walrus Mar 14, 2023, 12:31 AM

#

Aw damn

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 12:34 AM

#

RL matters are interfering with fairy's ability to work on the GRF

#

we artist have been had at work expanding the stock lists though

modern walrus Mar 14, 2023, 12:34 AM

#

Who is rl matters

#

@tawny oar

#

?

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 12:35 AM

#

modern walrus Who is rl matters

. . . real life

modern walrus Mar 14, 2023, 12:35 AM

#

Oh

#

Sorry im tired

#

Mb

#

Is there a new eta? Or

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 12:38 AM

#

it'll come out when it comes out

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 6:22 PM

#

as for the 604 project

#

im planning two versions

#

version 1, built off the duke is to replace the unstreamlined version

#

version 2 will be built off the streak to replace the streamlined version
and is more of a passion project of my vision for a modern A4 intended to take the world speed record for steam traction

#

and yes ideally i would have version 2 be set to a max speed of 130 mph

twilit geyser Mar 14, 2023, 6:30 PM

#

Do we have a documentation file of this? So that people don't have to go trawling through this chat if someone wants to redo this a decade down the line from now?

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 6:30 PM

#

github?

twilit geyser Mar 14, 2023, 6:31 PM

#

Like, a word document that people not familiar with github can read?

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 6:31 PM

#

no i don't think so

void roost Mar 14, 2023, 7:35 PM

#

If someone wants to re-do the set then they'd have enough technical knowledge to be able to work Github, surely?

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 10:31 PM

#

also why would somebody want to redo the set again?

twilit geyser Mar 14, 2023, 10:34 PM

#

tawny oar also why would somebody want to redo the set again?

I dunno. Technology might have moved on to the point it would be beneficial in something like a decade... And given how old OpenTTD is, I doubt it would fall completely out of interest in that time...

tawny oar Mar 14, 2023, 11:35 PM

#

fair enough

#

but i doubt people would need much more than the art from in here

#

and there are filters in the search bar for finding only images

void roost Mar 15, 2023, 12:34 AM

#

To be fair there’s no guarantee Discord will still exist at that point - these kinds of gaming community apps come and go. But the GitHub will be most likely to be useful

burnt valve Mar 15, 2023, 12:47 AM

#

I reckon discord will

#

Atm it has the market cornered kinda

#

I think

tawny oar Mar 15, 2023, 12:58 AM

#

i don't know of anything that can replace discord any time soon

burnt valve Mar 15, 2023, 1:20 AM

#

^^

tawny oar Mar 15, 2023, 1:31 AM

#

tbh the only thing i can think of that can replace discord, is discord itself

burnt valve Mar 15, 2023, 2:46 AM

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Aye

cursive robin Mar 15, 2023, 9:08 AM

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dunno about discord but irc will surely still exist 🤣

void roost Mar 15, 2023, 9:57 AM

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We all thought nothing would replace Teamspeak, or MSN Messenger, or MySpace, or AOL. Things change fast in the tech world

frank kettle Mar 15, 2023, 10:05 AM

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yet irc still exists

twilit geyser Mar 15, 2023, 10:31 AM

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frank kettle yet irc still exists

What even is irc? What does it stand for?

frank kettle Mar 15, 2023, 10:31 AM

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Internet relay chat

burnt valve Mar 15, 2023, 4:19 PM

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void roost We all thought nothing would replace Teamspeak, or MSN Messenger, or MySpace, or...

True but some constants have appeared, like google, i think the internet is far more stable than it used to be now that people kinda know what it is

tawny oar Mar 16, 2023, 3:35 AM

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anyways, progress on version 1 of the new 604:

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decided to copy the old ones coloured smoke deflectors

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a version with black smoke deflectors will be provided for use of course

neat vessel Mar 16, 2023, 4:41 AM

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I like it. Distinctive yet familiar

tawny oar Mar 16, 2023, 2:39 PM

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that was my intention

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i figure such an engine would most likely draw from the Duke of Gloucester as it's one of the most advanced steam locomotives on the uk network constantly seeing modifications to improve efficiency.

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making it the ideal baseboard for a future pacific

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i put a set of bulleid firth brown wheels on as i feel those would be another thing such an engine would have

tawny oar Mar 16, 2023, 4:15 PM

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No/Greatly reduced hammer action on the tracks and doesn't have tire issues

tawny oar Mar 17, 2023, 5:38 PM

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I envision such an engine would use the dukes caprotti valve gear to REALLY make full use of the steam

neat vessel Mar 17, 2023, 11:15 PM

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All yes. Excellent work

tawny oar Mar 18, 2023, 2:52 AM

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OK finished the unstreamlined version.

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Question about the streamlined one,

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Should I use the valanced streak or the unvalanced streak for it?

neat vessel Mar 18, 2023, 3:49 AM

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Hmmm. I think unvalanced as I don't believe the valances had a great effect on speed but they did affect maintenance which would be a more pressing concern

tawny oar Mar 18, 2023, 2:27 PM

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unvalanced it is

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here's what i have so far

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I've copied the yellow bearing covers from the duke and britannia

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put bulleid firth brown wheels on again and added the GT3 style cab

tawny oar Mar 18, 2023, 3:18 PM

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i'll be posting 2 .zip files of the completed 604s

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1 zip for the unstreamlined, 1 zip for the streamlined

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but thats later

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i gotta go to work

neat vessel Mar 18, 2023, 6:13 PM

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Very nice 🙂

tawny oar Mar 18, 2023, 11:00 PM

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the streamlined 604

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plus a pic of how it should look all coupled together

tawny oar Mar 18, 2023, 11:18 PM

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and here are the .zips

📎 604.zip 📎 604_2.zip

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 3:19 PM

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Question, what is the 4-4-0 edwardian's IRL prototype?

plain island Mar 23, 2023, 3:29 PM

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I think the wiki had it as the Midland Railway 1000

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 5:23 PM

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Yeah that looks about right
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Midland_Compound_1025_(Boys'_Book_of_Locomotives%2C_1907).jpg

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Anybody know how long it is compared to City of Truro?

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 8:40 PM

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I will research

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Apparently length of MR 1000 is 57ft 9inch

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I can't find any info on the overall dimensions of City of Truro but I can find the wheelbase (which as I am sure you know on steam engines is from where the wheels touch the rails). That's 8ft 6 inch on CoT

So you can extrapolate the overall length from that and photos, roughly

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 9:46 PM

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i suppose the real question is whether the city is more 0-6-0 size or 4-4-0 size

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 11:38 PM

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Irritatingly I can't find the wheelbase for the Midland 1000

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But I believe the City is slightly smaller

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Given it has smaller driving wheels

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 11:50 PM

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but is it 4 pixels smaller?

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 11:51 PM

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Unlikely

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I'll try and find photos with some sort of scale

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Now, using the photo you have above of the 1000 class from a similar angle, and knowing the size of the driving wheels of each, you should be able to scale the images, if roughly

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 11:55 PM

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wait hold up, could the 4-4-0 edwardian be the Midland Railway 483 Class?

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now that i look at the sprite, no

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 11:56 PM

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City of Truro - 6 ft 8+1⁄2 in
Midland 1000 - 7ft

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 11:56 PM

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the edwardian clearly has the outside cylinders

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 11:57 PM

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The Edwardian is the 1000, as pikka explicitly stated this back when ukrs2 was first created

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(Originally prj1000, project 1000, from that class)

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 11:58 PM

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i suppose the real question is how to turn the edwardian into a more city-like engine

neat vessel Mar 23, 2023, 11:59 PM

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The leading wheels on the two are

City of Truro - 3ft 2 in
Midland 1000 - 3 ft 6+1⁄2 in

tawny oar Mar 23, 2023, 11:59 PM

#

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 12:00 AM

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The outside frames and inside cylinders ?

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tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 12:00 AM

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thats the problem, there aren't many outside frame locos in UKRS2

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 12:00 AM

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And the more exposed cab and gwr dome

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 12:01 AM

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i've done the GWR dome

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 12:01 AM

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Also is there any way to taper the boiler at ttd scale or no?

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Tender could be slightly lower too perhaps.

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And the big distinctive name plate. Perhaps borrow parts from the spinner?

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 12:07 AM

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here's my "parts store" so far

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feel free to take a stab at it, as i'm stuck

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 12:53 AM

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in the meantime, i present another brake van

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the 15 ton brake van

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 1:22 AM

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Nice

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Could we have a variety of brake vans of the same/similar weight, say LMS, NE, GWR toads etc, and have them randomise when built? Or is that a lot of drawing and coding for not much gain ?

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 1:30 AM

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already done them

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we have a GWR toad, two six wheel brake vans and the 15 ton

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as for randomising, i doubt that's in fairy's plans since we have variants now

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 1:47 AM

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Nice, alrighty then 🙂

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 1:50 AM

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i'm thinking of trying to make the Queen Mary brake vans

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 1:51 AM

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The long LSWR/SR ones? I don't recall what they were used for historically. Fish traffic?

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Maybe a celestory coach lower with a brake van upper? Although the diagonals would be harder to blend

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 1:52 AM

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LSWR?

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all the records i can find state they were built by the SR only

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i might try and make this LMS one too

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 2:01 AM

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neat vessel The long LSWR/SR ones? I don't recall what they were used for historically. Fish...

generally, express goods since they were built on passenger coach chassis and fitted with passenger bogies

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(a proper queen mary)

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 2:04 AM

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tawny oar all the records i can find state they were built by the SR only

Possibly. I'm not overly up on pregrouping down south

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 2:06 AM

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neat vessel Possibly. I'm not overly up on pregrouping down south

tbh neither am i, and i grew up smack dab in the middle of it!

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the queen marys were built in 1936 BTW

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 2:06 AM

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Ah okee, I am probably mixing them up with something else I read about

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 2:07 AM

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neat vessel Ah okee, I am probably mixing them up with something else I read about

if you know more about big brake vans do share

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im always looking for more ideas

neat vessel Mar 24, 2023, 2:07 AM

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I'll dig around see what I can find

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 2:08 AM

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cool

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im aware of a GCR bogie brake van, but that can be mistaken as a passenger wagon to easily

tawny oar Mar 24, 2023, 3:57 PM

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neat vessel Maybe a celestory coach lower with a brake van upper? Although the diagonals wou...

I'm thinking of a flatbed instead of a clerestory tbh

tawny oar Mar 25, 2023, 5:04 AM

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update to the 15 ton, its now the size of the goods van and the 5 plank

tawny oar Mar 25, 2023, 11:40 PM

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Queen Mary brake van finished

#

(close up)

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its built to the same length as the clerestory coaches BTW

neat vessel Mar 28, 2023, 12:55 AM

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Looking good, (both)

tawny oar Mar 28, 2023, 3:06 AM

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@nova cape you can find details of the UKRS2 NML port in here

tawny oar Mar 28, 2023, 6:53 PM

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progress update on the B17
opinion needed
shorter vesion (same size as 4-4-0 shire)

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or larger version (same size as 4-6-0 jubilee)

tawny oar Mar 29, 2023, 7:01 PM

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I've decided to make both, the shorter version I can refit into the b12

tawny oar Mar 30, 2023, 2:32 AM

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B17 finished

#

streamlined variant coming soon

neat vessel Mar 30, 2023, 2:47 AM

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Excellent.

tawny oar Mar 30, 2023, 2:49 AM

#

making that was hard

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like P2 highlander levels of hard

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but it was worth it

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and as a result of the stream lined variants progress

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we now have LNER 8 wheel high-side tenders with no corridor connection

tawny oar Mar 30, 2023, 3:09 AM

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progress goes well on the streamlining

tawny oar Mar 30, 2023, 3:25 AM

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and it is finished

neat vessel Mar 30, 2023, 4:39 AM

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Nice. Loving the options we have now, all in that UKRS2 style 🙂

tawny oar Mar 30, 2023, 6:27 PM

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And we're far from done.

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I think I might have cracked the GWR 4-6-0 problem, meaning the hall won't be the only one.

#

We could soon have the castle and the King classes join

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 12:25 AM

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im thinking of elevating the old hall (see picture) to be the castle

#

and im making a new hall

#

though this does bring up a question

#

was there a length difference between the GWR 4-6-0's?

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as in were the castles longer than the halls?

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and were the kings longer than the castles?

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i'm not gonna bother with the stars and granges as they would just be over-doing it

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:43 AM

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tawny oar and were the kings longer than the castles?

wiki says there's about a ~2ft difference between the hall and castle

#

3ft between king and castle

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:45 AM

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plain island 3ft between king and castle

so would the length difference shown in my latest picture be suitable for the difference between a hall and a castle?

#

i'll have to figure something out for the kings besides a different boiler and a coloured bearing on the front wheel of the pony truck

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:47 AM

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tbh I'm not sure? the difference in the two might be too big

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it looks about the same as the difference between the two b17 sprites you did

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:48 AM

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thats because it is

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:48 AM

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diff between the D49 and the jubilee is 6ft

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you could have the longer spring be the king and the shorter be the castle/hall

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:49 AM

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D49?

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:49 AM

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tawny oar D49?

shire

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:49 AM

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ahh right

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i'm trying to stick to this size guide you see

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:50 AM

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plain island shire

do you by any chance know the difference in length between a king and an LNER A3?

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:52 AM

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wiki says the A3 is 70ft 5 inch, so a bit over 2ft longer than the king

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:52 AM

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hmmm

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:53 AM

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plain island wiki says the A3 is 70ft 5 inch, so a bit over 2ft longer than the king

question, are these lengths of the locomotive only or loco and tender?

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:54 AM

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should be including tender

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 2:55 AM

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ah i need loco only

plain island Mar 31, 2023, 2:56 AM

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ohhh ic

#

can't seem to find any lengths without the tender

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for what its worth, the hall, castle, king all list the same tender weight on wikipedia, so most likely they share the same?

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 3:02 AM

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plain island for what its worth, the hall, castle, king all list the same tender weight on wi...

thats useful to know!

#

i found this for the king

#

i'm thinking i'll make the king and the castle both size 6 large and the hall size 6 small

#

there should be enough design differences between the castle and the king that i can make them suitably unique

#

or not as it turns out, why did they have to make these engines so bloody similar?!

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it seems like the front pilot truck wheels having outside frames is the only noticable difference

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ok THIS is a GODSEND
https://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/460identification.php

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ALL the GWR 4-6-0's in the same scale!

vocal kettle Mar 31, 2023, 8:28 AM

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yeah castle and king are visually identical nearly

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i was going to go a similar route

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 12:42 PM

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vocal kettle i was going to go a similar route

similar route?

vocal kettle Mar 31, 2023, 12:48 PM

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making them the same sprite and similar sizes for the others

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 12:48 PM

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oh, i was gonna do my hardest to make them have differences

#

finally, found a drawing of the a1/a3

#

and thanks to a length calculator

#

i know know the A1/A3 is 43 feet 11 inches long from front buffer to rear of the footplate

#

and that the king is 43 feet long from front buffer to rear of the footplate (i was not expecting the results to be so similar)

#

as a result i think i can get away with making the king size 7

void roost Mar 31, 2023, 3:26 PM

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If you make them the same size, you can still hint at different sizes with some shading - it can be surprisingly effective

vocal kettle Mar 31, 2023, 4:55 PM

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yeah they are surprisingly big

tawny oar Mar 31, 2023, 5:19 PM

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void roost If you make them the same size, you can still *hint* at different sizes with som...

I'm not good at using shading for such things so the king will be size 7. I've got it more or less figured out anyways.

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

in other news i think i have a finalised Hall design i'm happy with

#

i put the driving wheels from the king arthur on

neat vessel Apr 1, 2023, 1:12 PM

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Looking good.

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:32 PM

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only issue is the tender

neat vessel Apr 1, 2023, 1:33 PM

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On the upside, once you do get the tender right, that's a good template for almost all GWR tenders

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:33 PM

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i have one but the way the GRF is made i don't know if it can be used

#

ideally i'd use the tender i made for the old hall (now castle)

#

this one

#

but the GRF doesn't allow tenders of size 4 (small) with engines of size 6 (small)

#

all the engines with that size tender are size 6 (large)

#

i mean it looks good

#

so i might ask @snow carbon if the code could be changed to allow it

#

that way i could use the tender with the king as well

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:40 PM

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that doesn't sound that complicated of a change

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:41 PM

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would made things easier all around too

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:41 PM

#

i might take a look myself

neat vessel Apr 1, 2023, 1:41 PM

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I think ideally the code should be changed. I can see why it was kept to certain templates, for simplicity in coding many engines, but if there are identical tenders being used on different locos of different lengths, the tenders should stay the same

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:41 PM

#

i originally wanted to give the 2-8-2 mikado the tender from the 2-6-2 Arrow

#

as the IRL P1s were fitted with 6 wheel tenders, not 8 wheel ones

neat vessel Apr 1, 2023, 1:42 PM

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Rather than fudging the tenders to fit the template

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:42 PM

#

i had to kitbash a tender out of the merchant navy and the coronation

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:44 PM

#

tawny oar but the GRF doesn't allow tenders of size 4 (small) with engines of size 6 (smal...

I'm having a look and I see 0 reason why this isn't possible already

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

top is the original tender i wanted to use

#

bottom is the one i made

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:46 PM

#

vocal kettle I'm having a look and I see 0 reason why this isn't possible already

that's why i @ed fairy

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:48 PM

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tawny oar top is the original tender i wanted to use

what lengths are these tenders

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:49 PM

#

top is the one from the arrow, which is size 4 (small)

#

bottom is the the same size as all the pacific tenders, which is size 4 (large)

#

(a copy of the size chart if it helps)

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:50 PM

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yes thank

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 1:51 PM

#

np

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 1:52 PM

#

oooooh

#

this makes more sense

#

yeah now i get this system

#

very peculiar

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 2:04 PM

#

HOLD UP

#

THEY MADE 8 WHEEL ONES?!

#

correction, they only made 1

#

and it never ran behind a king!?

#

well that's just wrong

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 2:11 PM

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that's quite funny to see

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 2:12 PM

#

if we can't get fairy to allow smaller tenders for the king i might make it

snow carbon Apr 1, 2023, 2:31 PM

#

small tenders with small loco's should be possible

#

only reason it's not done so far is because nothing in UKRS2 has it

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 3:50 PM

#

snow carbon small tenders with small loco's should be possible

What about smaller tenders with big locos?

#

E.g. mating a size six (small) tender to a size 7 loco?

snow carbon Apr 1, 2023, 4:27 PM

#

tawny oar What about smaller tenders with big locos?

Also possible, there's nothing holding that back from working

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 5:46 PM

#

Excellent, once I'm back on my PC I shall make the needed updates to the mikado, finish the hall and castle and get started on the king.

tawny oar Apr 1, 2023, 11:06 PM

#

updated mikado (colour)

#

(black)

#

4-6-0 Hall

#

4-6-0 Castle

vocal kettle Apr 1, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

'ery noice

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 12:15 AM

#

i require an opinion

#

A or B for wheel arrangement?
(A having a more complete boiler has no meaning btw)

#

king side view for comparison

void roost Apr 2, 2023, 12:25 AM

#

Honestly I don't think anyone is gonna notice the difference. I'd go for the first one for a 4-6-0 just because it's on the higher end of the "number of wheels" scale, so the "busier" running gear fits better IMO

vocal kettle Apr 2, 2023, 12:37 AM

#

I'd say B personally

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 12:39 AM

#

void roost Honestly I don't think anyone is gonna notice the difference. I'd go for the fir...

A or B?

void roost Apr 2, 2023, 12:40 AM

#

I don't see any A/B labels 😂 I assume A is top/first? So A

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 12:40 AM

#

thank you

#

@neat vessel what do you think?

neat vessel Apr 2, 2023, 1:00 AM

#

I say A also

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 1:24 AM

#

A it is then

snow carbon Apr 2, 2023, 10:20 AM

#

Okay, question.
Should Diesel Locomotives and such be named more akin to UKRS2 style (EE Type 3) or use their TOPS Classes (Class 37)

burnt valve Apr 2, 2023, 10:35 AM

#

I prefer TOPS but why not just make it a param?

snow carbon Apr 2, 2023, 10:38 AM

#

I can make it a param later, just want to decide which to make first/make the default

burnt valve Apr 2, 2023, 10:40 AM

#

I think TOPS as default makes more sense

#

It seems to be what most people are familiar with, what is used in other games and what is used in other grfs

vocal kettle Apr 2, 2023, 11:13 AM

#

burnt valve I think TOPS as default makes more sense

this

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 1:34 PM

#

i personally would prefer keeping the UKRS2 style of naming for diesels, though i can agree having the TOPS clasification would make the diesels easier to sort.

snow carbon Apr 2, 2023, 1:52 PM

#

If anyone is willing to help out with filling in the big stat sheet I need to quickly put out code, do give me a poke so I can give the link and instructions

vocal kettle Apr 2, 2023, 3:11 PM

#

snow carbon If anyone is willing to help out with filling in the big stat sheet I need to qu...

i'd be willing to help with this

snow carbon Apr 2, 2023, 6:55 PM

#

Okay, I think the program I intend to use to output the code for locomotives is Good to Go, all that's left is:

Filling out the datasheet
Running the program on the Data
Seeing where things break

And after that, gonna do the same thing but for the carriages/wagons, but once I've got this working that should be much easier

@tawny oar would you be able to take a look at the datasheet if I send it to you and mark which vehicles I've listed haven't yet been drawn (basically if you didn't make it, consider it not drawn) and which things you've drawn aren't included in the list

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 9:26 PM

#

snow carbon Okay, I think the program I intend to use to output the code *for locomotives* i...

minor issue, i've forgotten most of what ive made

#

and i'll be away from my main computer for a couple days

#

tawny oar Apr 2, 2023, 11:20 PM

#

^(this is so i can continue working on it on the other computer)

tawny oar Apr 4, 2023, 5:40 PM

#

Right, back on my main computer

tawny oar Apr 6, 2023, 12:49 AM

#

snow carbon Okay, I think the program I intend to use to output the code *for locomotives* i...

why not send me the data-sheet anyways, i can always dig through the discord channel to find whats been made

tawny oar Apr 8, 2023, 2:35 AM

#

minor update to the Castle

tawny oar Apr 9, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

I hereby proclaim the 4-6-0 King, Finished!

tawny oar Apr 9, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

and with that i consider the GWR steam fleet properly represented in UKRS2, and isometric transport management games in general

neat vessel Apr 9, 2023, 5:56 AM

#

Superlative work

tawny oar Apr 14, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

Here's a question, much like how certain kinds of rolling stock reduce the decay rate of goods and outright reduce running costs, is it possible to make a modifier that speeds up cargo loading and unloading

tawny oar Apr 14, 2023, 12:34 PM

#

my idea is for a TPO wagon, it can only carry half as much mail as the express mail carriage, but it DRASTICALLY speeds up loading and unloading of mail

#

(one of these)

tawny oar Apr 14, 2023, 3:32 PM

#

Ideally, the tpo would only be able to carry Mail and its effect would only apply to mail

frank kettle Apr 14, 2023, 3:42 PM

#

That should be possible

#

But you might need dedicated mail carriages

tawny oar Apr 14, 2023, 5:06 PM

#

frank kettle But you might need dedicated mail carriages

Why would dedicated mail carriages be needed? Wouldn't the ones we already have be suitable?

#

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/main/gfx/PASS/GENERAL_UTILITY_VAN.png

#

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/main/gfx/PASS/EXPRESS_MAIL_CARRIAGE.png

#

^These ones

frank kettle Apr 14, 2023, 5:58 PM

#

I said that since I was unsure whether quicker loading would be able to change between different cargoes but it might be possible

tawny oar Apr 15, 2023, 2:23 AM

#

tbh i only want this to work for mail

#

since i doubt a proper TPO (loading and unloading mail without stopping the train) would be possible

elfin sparrow Apr 26, 2023, 3:28 AM

#

just so i get notifs on this

void roost Apr 26, 2023, 11:40 PM

#

elfin sparrow just so i get notifs on this

You can do that without replying (just for future reference) - hit the notification icon and then you can Follow and enable/disable notifications

elfin sparrow Apr 26, 2023, 11:46 PM

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Ohhh

tawny oar Apr 28, 2023, 12:31 PM

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elfin sparrow Ohhh

either way, be welcome in our workshop

tawny oar Jul 4, 2023, 10:38 PM

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any updates?

tawny oar Jul 15, 2023, 11:47 PM

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ok since there's been no updates from fairy, i have one

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i'm adapting the jubilee into a standard class 5

tawny oar Jul 16, 2023, 2:11 AM

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and done

neat vessel Jul 16, 2023, 9:12 AM

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Nice!

tawny oar Jul 16, 2023, 12:08 PM

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thank you

tawny oar Jul 23, 2023, 5:26 PM

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i stumbled upon this while looking through a model railway discord, i never knew the GWR made these

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shouldn't be too hard to make, prairie body on suburban 1 chassi

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well that helps, their both the same size

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and done

tawny oar Jul 23, 2023, 6:46 PM

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GWR Suburban:
introduction date - 1905
Tractive effort - 20,530 lbf

neat vessel Jul 25, 2023, 8:13 PM

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Excellent work there. Yes apparently they didn't last too long. Replaced with Prairies

tawny oar Jul 27, 2023, 2:47 AM

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it'll make a good companion to the suburban

tawny oar Aug 5, 2023, 11:57 PM

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does anybody know how different the V4 is to the V2?

elfin sparrow Aug 5, 2023, 11:58 PM

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2 more vs

tawny oar Aug 5, 2023, 11:59 PM

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not what i meant

plain island Aug 6, 2023, 3:13 PM

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tawny oar does anybody know how different the V4 is to the V2?

generally smaller and lighter, designed for less heavily-built lines

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boiler diameter is similar to the LNER K2 or B1 (foot smaller than V2)

neat vessel Aug 6, 2023, 3:48 PM

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In OpenTTD terms

V4

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V2

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So, the V2 was more powerful but heavier.

tawny oar Aug 6, 2023, 9:30 PM

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not performance wise

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appearence wise

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like were the V4's shorter from front to back than the V2

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and could i get away with using the klondyke's boiler?

plain island Aug 6, 2023, 10:05 PM

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C2 is a bit small, C1 could work I think? diameters look close enough

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V4 is definitely smaller lengthwise, even visually it looks kinda tiny in comparison to the V2

neat vessel Aug 6, 2023, 11:16 PM

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Oh I see, sorry, derp

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At least some of the stats there can help, wheelbase mostly

tawny oar Aug 7, 2023, 12:34 AM

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how does this look?

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its the same length as the klondyke and the shire

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and is using the shire's boiler, cab and tender

neat vessel Aug 7, 2023, 2:16 PM

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Excellent work there 🙂

solemn plinth Aug 18, 2023, 9:29 AM

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Uh hi

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Do you guys have access to early pre 1900 sprites?

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I intend to use some

modern walrus Aug 31, 2023, 10:19 PM

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Hi

tawny oar Sep 1, 2023, 2:34 AM

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greetings

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welcome to the workshops

modern walrus Sep 1, 2023, 4:56 PM

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Si

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Was just checking up on this mod

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Been excited for it for a long while

tawny oar Sep 2, 2023, 2:09 AM

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as am i

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however Fairy's jobe is of the soul sucking variety

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meaning fairy has no energy to work on the GRF

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 12:54 PM

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Work is dead. Uni is now.

Trying to see if I can pull through and actually get a first release out.

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actually here's just the rough in-development build I'm working on. Locomotives only. Bit clustered and rough. Stuff's missing, getting everything setup still.

📎 ukfs.grf

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I haven't touched anything about this in a while, so poke me about missing/incorrect stuff

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:03 PM

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why not have cc and rcc as refits rather than varients?

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:05 PM

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Because I find variants more convenient

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:12 PM

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are you not doing many real life liveries?

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:14 PM

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I auto-generate the majority of my code

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Still tweaking my setup but ideally it'd mean I'd need to do minimal manual adjustments and it'd just be a matter of getting the sprites and adjust a single number and a single line of text

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:17 PM

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fair

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im doing real life liveries and 2cc too

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but im keeping all the 2cc stuff as refits

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along with anything fictional

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i can see the appeal but it also looks cluttered imo to have it all as vars

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:20 PM

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I thought there was a way to hide parent vehicles but I can't find it atm

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:21 PM

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you can hide by ctrl clicking on a vehicle

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and if you ctrl click on the last one you built it hides everything below it

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:22 PM

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No I mean

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in the code

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:22 PM

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oh

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:22 PM

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I think I had it working at some point

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:22 PM

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uhh

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maybe have it available in no climates?

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:23 PM

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so these two would be hidden

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I tried, that just makes the vehicle unavailable entirely

elfin sparrow Sep 9, 2023, 1:23 PM

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damn

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:27 PM

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Ah, I see

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So I can hide the top-level one

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but not the one below it

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So in this case, I'd be able to hide the Red-line'd one, and probably make the blue ones the RL Livery

snow carbon Sep 9, 2023, 1:53 PM

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tawny oar Sep 9, 2023, 11:17 PM

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the locos don't change appearance over time like in the original UKRS2, right?

elfin sparrow Sep 10, 2023, 12:40 AM

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That looks to be the case

tawny oar Sep 10, 2023, 12:50 AM

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excellent

snow carbon Sep 10, 2023, 8:54 AM

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gave all Steam Loco's an Applel Green, Black, GWR/BR Green and LMS Red Livery, based on the colours in the standard UKRS set. The black needs some adjusting, I think.

📎 ukfs.grf

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this shade of black looks better, I think

📎 ukfs.grf

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also tender-less vehicles (tank engines, diesels/electrics) face a random direction when bought, and keep their heading when the train reverses, so it looks like thy just ran around the train. I think Iron Horse does that too, which is what inspired me to do it for this

twilit geyser Sep 10, 2023, 11:15 AM

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snow carbon this shade of black looks better, I think

This shade of black also seems to have shrunk the file size! 😂

vocal kettle Sep 10, 2023, 11:17 AM

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mmm compression

neat vessel Sep 10, 2023, 11:32 AM

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The idea of a 9F in LMS Crimson Lake is...curious 😄

light badger Sep 10, 2023, 5:55 PM

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snow carbon also tender-less vehicles (tank engines, diesels/electrics) face a random direct...

Can i make them face another direction?

snow carbon Sep 10, 2023, 7:47 PM

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light badger Can i make them face another direction?

Yes, by control-clicking

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 12:26 PM

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also pushed my latest stuff to the github for interested parties
https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 1:37 PM

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Do the pullmans and the Brighton belle have their liveries?

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 1:46 PM

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I haven't given anything special treatment yet

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and wagons don't have liveries at all yet

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 4:34 PM

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👍

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 8:52 PM

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I'm messing about with colours more. I've got these single-colour, easy-to-apply liveries, based mostly on existing colour schemes for UKRS2 stuff (idk where I got Caledonian Blue from I think it's default light blue)

What do people think I should do with these? Blanket add them to everything? Only add specific colour schemes to specific things (like, only tank engines get Industrial Yellow, for example)? Something else?

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tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 9:00 PM

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i'm not sure about the caledonian blue

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dark blue would be a better match

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:00 PM

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Flat CC1 then, basically

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:08 PM

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Caley blue seems to vary a lot

#

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I am no expert on the Caledonian to know I'm afraid

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Also, Southern Green came in several variations. Malachite, Olive etc, so in some cases the LNER Green or CC2 Green would work too

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:12 PM

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Yea, hence why I think it's valid to apply like, the same colour options even to companies that wouldn't normally have the specific loco, perhaps with more generalized names. That way, locos can be stand-in for other locos by recolouring them, and liveries can represent other liveries

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:13 PM

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Excellent idea 🙂

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LMS Crimson Lake for example can stand in for Metropolitan, Midland, Furness, North Stafford etc liveries

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I didn't mean to sound as if I was mocking with my 9F comment either, far from, the concept of a lot of those engines in LMS Crimson Lake just appealed to me, as someone into Alternative History 🙂

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:16 PM

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Oh, it didn't come across as mocking!

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so no worries c:

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:16 PM

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Ooh, and the CC1 blue is quite like that BR Experimental Express Passenger Blue also. I always quite liked that

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Always thought BR should have gone with it, as it was different to any Big Four livery, so there could be no accusations of favouritsm

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:18 PM

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Yea, so I'm thinking the maximum liveries, not counting specific ones, would be:

Standard 2CC
Reversed 2CC (CC1 becomes CC2, CC2 becomes CC1)
Purely CC1
Purely CC2
Grey
Black
Industrial Yellow
LNER Green
LMS Red
GWR Green
SR Green
(Caledonian Light Blue?)
BR Green
BR/Caledonian Blue
Silver

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 9:18 PM

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neat vessel Always thought BR should have gone with it, as it was different to any Big Four ...

it's a lovely colour

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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Which. yes, is a lot, but I personally don't think it's that cluttered, since you can collapse variants

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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i'm trying to find hornby A4's in that colour rather than BR green or LNER blue

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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I reckon that list works for all possibilities

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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Also

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dT0OxFr02NJ-Ng9_QGSHWRsLpo7cADmfbniMlUGYWPE/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Fairy's UK Set in NML

COLOURS

Colour Names,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
CC1,64ACE0,4898D8,3878BC,285CA4,1C448C,14347C,0C2468,081858
CC2,80A82C,68941C,548414,40700C,306004,205004,104000,083400
LNER Apple Green,90E05C,7CC84C,6CB040,5C9C34,548414,40700C,306004,205004
LMS Crimson Lake,FC3434,FC0000,E00000,C40000,A0000...

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New Sheet that I'm using for stuff

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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Hornby did do em but I think it was a limited run

Steam-Locomotive-Class-A4-60007-Sir-Nigel-Gresley-BR-Hornby-R30266_b_0.JPG

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:19 PM

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first tab also contains my Palette Lists for these colours

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:20 PM

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And of course that list of colours covers pretty much all permutations of pre-grouping as well

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(Industrial yellow works for something like LBSCR)

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 9:20 PM

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neat vessel Hornby did do em but I think it was a limited run

no they did more,
here's mallard

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:21 PM

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Ah, mind you Hornby have been somewhat weird with how many they make of different models of late.

tawny oar Sep 11, 2023, 9:21 PM

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and golden eagle

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:21 PM

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Do we have pallette options/space left for a brown?

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Something like the afforementioned LBSCR, or NBR/GNoSR

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:22 PM

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neat vessel Do we have pallette options/space left for a brown?

As many as one could possibly want

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Palettes are made up out of 8 different shades. And since I'm doing non-CC liveries in 32bpp, they're not restricted to the OpenTTD Palette

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:26 PM

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Ah excellent. I would suggest a brown then, and if we could possibly make the LMS Red a little more Crimson. (that was always limited by the 8bpp palette)

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:26 PM

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These two are based on the Brown and Yellow-ish colour the Clerestory Coach gets

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Let me put a little something together

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:27 PM

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You're doing sterling work btw 🙂

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:27 PM

#

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Here's the Shire, but with the entire standard CC1 palette put there for reference

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so you can try out colour combinations by using, for example, paint.net's Global Bucket. If you set it to 0% tolerance, you can slowly replace the palette and watch the train change. Not every colour is used by the Shire, but I think it's a great reference locomotive.

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Here it is with transparency if wanted

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If you have a palette you think is nice, just send me either the image or the 8 colours you used (from left to right) along with a proposed name

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:31 PM

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I'll give it a go

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:31 PM

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I can implement a new livery in... 10 minutes? Possibly less? Assuming I'm awake and not preoccupied, of course

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it's just a matter of generating the sprites, adding a line of code to my code-writing program, running it, and updating two files

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A lot of the repetitive stuff is automated, it's only the specifics that will need to be manually worked on

neat vessel Sep 11, 2023, 9:36 PM

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Excellent. I admire programming things to work smart, rather than hard

twilit geyser Sep 11, 2023, 9:38 PM

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Would different colours not work better as refits rather than variants? Or, whatever the cargo box button in the vehicle window represents.

snow carbon Sep 11, 2023, 9:43 PM

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I prefer variants

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It would result in less .pnml files, sure, and be less cluttered in the purchase menu, but it has its own wonkiness that needs to be taken into account, and is less convenient for seeing what's available

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Maybe once everything's said and done I'll make a separate release that uses livery refits instead of variants but that's for future me to consider. Currently I'm sticking to variants

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:41 AM

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question

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what happens if one uses the grf on a version of TTD which doesan't have variants?

elfin sparrow Sep 12, 2023, 3:50 AM

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ive also had this question

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but my self answer is

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"im making this for me"

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:51 AM

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oh come on

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THE STREAKS TENDER STILL ISN'T FIXED?!

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:53 AM

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tawny oar here's the fixed versions

i even sent the fixed ones 😢

frank kettle Sep 12, 2023, 6:07 AM

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tawny oar what happens if one uses the grf on a version of TTD which doesan't have variant...

I think it errors but idk

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 6:08 AM

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tawny oar THE STREAKS TENDER STILL ISN'T FIXED?!

I thought I fixed it. Fixed it for sure now

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 8:12 AM

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Is there anyone who'd be able to bulk-apply the OpenTTD Palette to... a LOT of images? I know there's some way to do it using Photoshop and Macros, but I don't have Photoshop. It'd be a huge help to me

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I know how to do it manually by gimp but I don't want to do that for... roughly 300 images. Possibly more in the future.

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 10:56 AM

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I do have Photoshop. If you need it doing, i'd have to figure out how (i've used macros before but not to assign a palette) but I would be willing

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 11:03 AM

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I can send you a guide andy sent me a while back and see if you can get it to work?

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 11:05 AM

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Sure thing 🙂

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Also, I quickly did a "Burnt Umber" test

#

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and a revised LMS Crimson Lake

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snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 11:34 AM

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Red, Crimson & Umber

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 11:36 AM

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chefs kiss

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 12:42 PM

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frank kettle Sep 12, 2023, 12:43 PM

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oh no you've caught variants

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 12:44 PM

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Variants >>> Livery Refits

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 12:51 PM

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Excellent

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So, in Caley Blue, its No.123, in GWR Green it can be a Dean Single, in Crimson Lake its a Johnson Spinner, in Apple Green its a Stirling Single

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(the Silver looks like Photographic Grey too so thats nice)

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 12:55 PM

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Gonna need to go through the list of trains and make some adjustments because for some of them CC1 and CC overlap and CC2 and Reversed CC overlap

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CC is essentially the default sprite
RCC swaps CC1 and CC2
CC1 replaces CC2 with CC1 so it's all CC1
CC2 is the CC2 equivalent

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so on locomotives that have two colours, they're all different. On locomotives with only one Company Colour, CC and CC1 do the same, and RCC and CC2 do the same

elfin sparrow Sep 12, 2023, 1:56 PM

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Hey guys

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It looks like you’re drawing a sprite for each vehicle

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But why not have one sprite and the code recolour it?

frank kettle Sep 12, 2023, 2:03 PM

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You can't recolour it to any colour

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 2:33 PM

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neat vessel

manifique chefs kiss

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:09 PM

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neat vessel

if i could suggest an alteration

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i changed the darkest to be more brown rather than black

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 3:09 PM

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Absolutely fine 🙂

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:10 PM

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the old darkest brown looks a bit wrong on engines like the pacific

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 3:10 PM

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an NBR Pacific does get my Alternate History brain clicking 😄

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:10 PM

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and yes i had to make the pacific in burnt umber 😄

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:12 PM

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neat vessel an NBR Pacific does get my Alternate History brain clicking 😄

i was thinking LBSCR myself

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 3:12 PM

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Either is tantalising

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(1915 Gresley concept for a 4-Cylinder Compound Pacific, based on a stretched Atlantic basically. After the test 4-Cylinder Compound Atlantic proved dissapointing, he redesigned it to be a simple expansion 3-Cylinder with his own valve gear, and well the rest is history)

tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 3:15 PM

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are there any other railways that used the burnt umber livery?

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because both the NBR and LBSCR didn't have attractive coach liveries

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 3:15 PM

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MGNJR I think

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GNoSR possibly?

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 3:16 PM

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elfin sparrow But why not have one sprite and the code recolour it?

I don't know how to code this but I do know how to code a program to bulk recolour sprites so it's MUCH easier for me to do it that way.

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 8:55 PM

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Should I standardize livery names (Burnt Umber, Crimson, Green) or company-named colours (BR Green, GWR Green, LMS Crimson)

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and in case of the former, how should I differentiate name-wise between BR Green and GWR Green

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tawny oar Sep 12, 2023, 9:12 PM

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i say go for the company names

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 9:17 PM

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Company names would be simpler

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If you wanted to go for pure colour names, I believe GWR green was Bronze Green

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And BR green was Brunswick Green

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Apple Green
Black
Express Blue
Brunswick Green
Sky Blue
Crimson Lake
Bronze Green
Grey
Red
Silver
Olive
Burnt Umber

snow carbon Sep 12, 2023, 10:15 PM

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My main concern with company names is that it's also quite specific, whereas color names are a bit more vague, but it's a minor thing

neat vessel Sep 12, 2023, 11:30 PM

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Yes, I did try and think of a suitable list for company names, without it being too complex

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For example "Apple Green" applies to the NER, GNR and LNER but "GNR/NER/LNER Apple Green" is rather wordy

elfin sparrow Sep 12, 2023, 11:38 PM

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You could use fake text

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To provide info in the stats page

neat vessel Sep 13, 2023, 12:16 AM

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That could work. I think a combination might work. So, simple colour names with a bit of fake text saying "Suitable for: BR Green" or "Suitable for: LBSCR/NBR Burnt Umber"

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Keeps the name short and uncluttered whilst adding some info on what they're supposed to be

elfin sparrow Sep 13, 2023, 2:25 AM

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exactly

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 8:22 AM

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If anyone is wanting to do art things, there's a few locomotives I'd love to include if I have art for them:

LSWR 0298 (unrebuilt and rebuilt)
~~Metropolitan Railway E (we might already have this one need to check the sprites)~~
~~GCR Class 8H~~
~~NER Class X~~
~~LNER L2/Metropolitan K~~
USATC S100
LNER M2/Metropolitan G
Metropolitan Railways 'Metro-Vick' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Railway_electric_locomotives)
BR 10100
Blue Pullman (apparently hard to get looking right in finescale)

Additionally, if anyone is interested in producing some non-british stuff in finescale size (for a personal set that I might release to the public if it contains stuff that won't go in the main set), I'm interested in:

A diesel locomotive like the DB/BR V188
An electric locomotive like the JNR EH10

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 12:47 PM

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did some side-view kitbashing of random things in case anyone wants to try and make them into proper full sprites

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 3:35 PM

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neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 3:47 PM

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I like the Class 13, and the one underneath it, it's familiar. Is it that gas turbine one?

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or maybe the Metro-Vick electric? At this scale, similar shape

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(and also made by the same company, so, makes sense)

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 3:56 PM

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Oh, no, the Class 13 is the only real one

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and I can't manage anything other than the side-views, unfortunately

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 3:57 PM

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Well, the one below it would work for 18000 or 18100

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 3:57 PM

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The one below it is actually two Class 20's stuck together with the cab in the middle

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 3:58 PM

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Ah, like a Super-Clayton

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(but one that actually works)

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I thought it looked like this 😄

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 3:58 PM

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Yeah the 18000 is neat

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I've been wanting to make a 10100 but it's hard

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 4:12 PM

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Yes, its got a slightly slopey front and thats tricky

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 5:43 PM

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snow carbon If anyone is wanting to do art things, there's a few locomotives I'd love to inc...

we have the E class

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it's the metropolitan class

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this one

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 5:44 PM

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I'm looking for the uh, the 'opposite' one

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one's a 0-4-4 and the other a 4-4-0 i don't remember which is which

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 5:44 PM

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the 4-4-0 is the A class

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and i think i made that a while ago

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yeah here it is

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and here's the open cab variant

snow carbon Sep 18, 2023, 8:43 PM

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more shenanigans. An attempt at the Metro-Vick electric, and some cursed Class 44 A and B units (I honestly kinda like the design)

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 10:24 PM

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have you considered a class 55 A and B unit?

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:10 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/ohh-loki-handsome-gif-14611577

Tenor

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I do wonder why we never went down the A and B Unit route. I mean we did have multiple working (Blue Star etc)

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A Deltic A and B Unit though, 6000hp?

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:12 PM

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simple

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2 ended units don't require turntables, wyes or balloons

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:13 PM

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There is that

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:14 PM

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and removing turntables was likely high on the list of things the modernisation plan involved

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also having A and B units meant more upkeep

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and not every train needed a B unit meaning there would be B units sitting around, wasting money

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:15 PM

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Whereas every diesel being double ended meant even when not in multiple working, they could be put to use elsewhere

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:16 PM

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exactly

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:17 PM

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for once, something the 1955 plan got right?

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:18 PM

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pfft, in concept, not in practice

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because there was no quality control

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:18 PM

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looks at Type 1s yup

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:18 PM

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precisely

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it was so bad BR had to buy back steam locomotives to fill in for the diesels while better ones were made

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then one has to wonder if it was worth it with the whole oil crisis in the 70's

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imagine if BR's original plan of keeping steam into the 90's was in effect when that happened

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:20 PM

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Something i've found interesting in the alternate history stuff i've looked into, regarding what the Big Fours plans were had nationalisation not happened, was that whilst the LMS plans were allowed to continue (hence the twins) and the GWRs slightly odd experiments into gas turbines were, the LNERs were not, because they wanted to do the unspeakable: import American designs

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:21 PM

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i saw one where the LNER got what we call the class 37 and 55

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though that same timeline showed the GWR going for the diesel hydraulics

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somehow still having what we know as the class 52

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:23 PM

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Myself when i've pondered it, I've found it more likely that the GWR would have gone gas turbine and then diesel electric, the Southern would have continued to go electro-diesel, as it just made sense given their infrastructure, the LMS would likely be the highest user of diesels, with the LNER seeking to electrify as soon as was feasible

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:24 PM

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yeah that makes sense

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in that same timeline i saw the LNER electrified the ECML down to either peterborough or london itself from where the woodhead line connected to it

neat vessel Sep 18, 2023, 11:27 PM

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1500v DC ECML. It'd look very Dutch

tawny oar Sep 18, 2023, 11:35 PM

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basically like this

#UKRS2 in NML Dev Thread