UKRS2 in NML Dev Thread

[modern walrus]

Is this rewrite out yet or still in development

[snow carbon]

Still in development. Been sick and busy with work, but now on a break so should hopefully be able to finish it soon

[modern walrus]

Are there any graphics changes or will it still look like og ukrs?

[snow carbon]

Still look like original UKRS, but with some additions, in the original UKRS style

[modern walrus]

Neato

Finally ukrs getting some love

What new additions are you planning on?

Unless you have already stated and i havent seen

I've seen the hall class

And the two trains at the top

But anything else like more modern trains?

[tawny oar]

new locomotives (the ones i made specifically):
2-8-2 mikado
2-8-2 highlander
4-6-0 hall
4-6-2 pacific 2
4-6-2 peppercorn
5PUL Brighton Belle
class 91 D "abomination"
railfreight livery deltic

[tawny oar]

new wagons:
Buffet Coaches
Sleeper Coaches
Beavertail observation Coach
Pullman Coaches
new liveries for the ICI bogie hopper

[sacred dove]

Disco car?

[tawny oar]

no clue

all the ones i posted are the ones i made

[sacred dove]

Ahh

ALSO previously when I mentioned if this will get more stuff, I was more thinking just adding what ever. Not having EVERYTHING in the UK as thats not the scope of sets like this 😄

I guess it'd be nice to have a chunk of the cool and interesting stuff as well as the uniques of each class if you guys ever do a bunch of MU's

or at least just introduce the first model a class uses for MU's

(unless theres an update that makes thing a heck of lot better like more seating and better power/TE for acceleration)

[tawny oar]

well ive mostly been making kitbashes

[sacred dove]

Ahh

Yeah i did some of that with NARS addon set

the Baldwin Centipede I made was basically just kitbashing an EMD E-unit "A" part and a B-unit part

(basicaly an E8A and an E8B)

and than added the details needed like a higher roof part

Mostly just needed it for the basic shape and was able to get the rest of the sprite done by me

[tawny oar]

in my case its literally been making a mix n' match of pieces

[sacred dove]

Well to be fair at the scale that the game, and this set it using, its a little easier to do that

[modern walrus]

Can you explain the class 91 d "abomination"?

[tawny oar]

Sure, it's the DVT of the class 91 with an intercity 125 drive system shoved inside

[sacred dove]

Oh

@tawny oar Is it real or is that something you made up?

[tawny oar]

Very fictional

[sacred dove]

Kinda reminds me of how CN&W turned their E8B units into E8A units called "Crandal Cabs"

Normally they're not that angular

Thats a "booster" unit that had a cab put on it

because of a lack of power on CN&W

C&NW

Chicago and North Western

[tawny oar]

kinda like that

here's one of the liveries

[sacred dove]

ALSO I love how people shit on the UK Diesels for being so shit

I mean its kinda true

but it almost feels like its rubbing it int he face of the Unicycle lion

ALSO its kind of Interesting how if you wanna look up a British locomotive, most of the time you wanna do it BR Class XXX

[tawny oar]

the early ones were good

the 37's, 55's

but then they went into the boring old box shape

like the 56

[sacred dove]

Yeah

I mean its efficient

but

booooring

which with sprites just looks like a bunch of "rounded" boxes

At least the french still have "style" with broken noses

[tawny oar]

its partially why i continue to use steam engines long after the dieselisation

most, if not all of the diesels are, in my opinion, a step down in performance compared to the steam engines

[void roost]

Some of them are a step down in theoretical top speed and acceleration, but in reality it's a lot easier to make a diesel perform to spec than a kettle

TTD doesn't really account for that, so steamers are disproportionately good in game

[tawny oar]

tbh, it's mostly because i like steam engines more than diesels that i dont dieselise

[modern walrus]

I have an idea

Could the DVT be a separate vehicle like in timberwolfs?

So i can do stuff like class 90+ dvt etc

[void roost]

Is there a github for this project yet?

[tawny oar]

https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/

[void roost]

Thanks - I don't see a license file in there btw, didn't Pikka release the original graphics as GPLv2?

I know it hasn't released yet, but I figure it's worth making sure the license is present in any public repo, for the avoidance of any doubt

[tawny oar]

fairyfloss has been given permission by pikka to make this

https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1253335#p1253335

[void roost]

Specific "Use it under any license you like" permission? Or "Yeah go ahead, I released it as GPLv2 years ago" permission?

If it's the former then fair enough, although you'd still probably want to have some kind of license or copyright on there

[tawny oar]

hell if i know

what i posted is literally everything i know

@snow carbon can provide more information about the status of licensing

[tawny oar]

Suggestion: a random vehicle button like Iron Horse has

[snow carbon]

Far easier said than done, especially since Iron Horse has several wagons that fill the exact or almost exact same roll and UKRS2 doesn't (yet)

[tawny oar]

still, would be nice to have

[void roost]

Random vehicle button?

[tawny oar]

yes

it selects a random wagon that can carry the cargo you have selected

E.G. it randomly selects any wagon that can carry goods, refits it to goods and adds it to the train

so instead of 20 boxcars

you can have a random selection of boxcars, gondolas and tankers

[void roost]

Why have I never seen that? Is it a parameter thing or something?

I'll have to nosey at the code, I wouldn't mind stealing that idea

[tawny oar]

im not fully sure if its not a WiP thing still

[void roost]

Ah okay, I assume it's a vehicle called something like "Random liquid unit"?

Should be pretty easy to implement with a random switch

[tawny oar]

shrugs

im just the artist

[latent quail]

It’s stupid showboating in Iron Horse, very silly feature

[void roost]

Ah okay, so you pick a random one within a certain size - yeah I do a similar thing with containers and tankers in BRSet

I just implement it as a livery that picks a random livery within that item, but it’s the same basic idea

[latent quail]

It exploits Horse having about 600 wagons

[void roost]

Yup, and it’s pretty realistic too - especially for trains 30+ years ago

[sacred dove]

Well to be honest, be it North america, UK, Europe, or Asia, its rare you get a train thats made up of all just one car, and even rarer they all have the same livery

One of the few cases I can see that happening where its all one car, one livery, is a brand new mine railroad thats run by either the mine or the mill/power plant

[void roost]

In the UK it's pretty common to have trains made up of all one car - particularly the Stobart/Tesco trains or aggregate trains

[tawny oar]

thats in modern times though

in the past it was quite uncommon for that to be the case, trains like this:

were the norm back then

[stoic bolt]

Back then especially companies that had large quantities of good transported by railway they'd own their own railway wagons, helping the variety

[tawny oar]

a new development of the mechanist works:
the GWR toad brake van

and
the SE&CR brake van (2 variations as i dont know which way round they usually went)

and
a 6 wheel version of the long roof brake van

[void roost]

Platform at the back

[tawny oar]

thats the top one, right?

[tawny oar]

so i just discovered the current mineral wagon is severely out of scale, as such i have made a new one that is the same size as the 5 plank wagon

[vocal kettle]

bumping an older convo, but another hall for comparison (RUKTS)

[tawny oar]

ehh

cabs wrong

[tawny oar]

fresh from the paint shops, the 4-6-2 Streak in HST swallow livery

[void roost]

The LNER A4 in a what livery now?

[tawny oar]

the intercity swallow livery

the livery used on HST's in 1987

[void roost]

Gotcha, so not a real livery combination - I thought you were saying someone had put an A4 into Swallow

I know there were a couple of steamers on a preserved railway that went into BR Blue with the BR logo

[tawny oar]

not IRL, but somebody sorta has

https://www.deviantart.com/2509-silverlink/art/British-Railways-Intercity-A4-pacific-360273698

same artist did a deltic inspired livery too

[sacred dove]

Interesting

I wonder how the more typical flat front steamers would look in BR blue with a yellow nose on its boiler

[void roost]

The only steam trains ever to be put into BR Blue, no yellow warning panel though unfortunately

[tawny oar]

the other images ive seen of such a thing dont have yellow either

[sacred dove]

Well I imagine that steamers might look a bit weird with yellow bits on the front (and back)

[sacred dove]

I imagine something like this might look a bit jaring with BR Blue and yellow

[tawny oar]

though an artist on deviantart did a "10F" which gained yellow panels

[sacred dove]

Hehe

[tawny oar]

realistically though, you probably dont need the yellow on steam engines

[sacred dove]

Though I was thinking it might look a bit weird if all the black front parts there where yellow

Enh

[tawny oar]

you got the MASSIVE cloud of steam for that

[sacred dove]

maybe not

but then again sometimes I've noticed dark colored Locomotives kinda blend into the distance on hot days

then again I wonder if Heat haze and long stretches of track are much of a thing 😄

Oh yeah I forget that steamres have smoke and/or steam coming out

[tawny oar]

you mean like this?

or this?

[sacred dove]

The wavy "haze" you see on hot stuff and surfaces

like on roads or on rails

[tawny oar]

ik what heat haze is

[sacred dove]

I've noticed IRL sometimes trains blend in because of the heat haze

And the only thing I realy notice until they get close enough to become noticable is their running lights

Oh speaking of Heat and rails

Remember when the UK became hotter than the sun not long ago 😄

Good thing we dont havet o account for burning rails in game 🙂

BTW
will the Turbine APT be included?

[tawny oar]

the turbine one? doubt it

closest i think would be the abomination

[sacred dove]

Lol

At least the GT3 is already a thing

just too bad it didn't take off but to be fair turbines use up a lot of fuel when they're not running at top speed constantly

[tawny oar]

they do look similar

well

excluding the buffers

[sacred dove]

I couldn't have sworn like the TGV, there was plans to make a GTEL APT

Or rather I guess it'd be a GTEMU

[tawny oar]

yes

the second image is a gas turbine APT

[sacred dove]

Yeah

[tawny oar]

this ugly beast

is the electric one

[sacred dove]

I dont think its ugly

its got that late 70's/80's wedge shaped vehicle look 🙂

[tawny oar]

each to their own

[sacred dove]

I find it hard these days to find something "ugly"

I mean even a patch work industrial locomotive has its own beauty

[tawny oar]

easy for me i suppose

i consider most things made after the 70's ugly

[sacred dove]

lol

Even the Canadian built Class 66's?

[tawny oar]

when the idea of making something to last was tossed out the window

[sacred dove]

And yet theres the Class 37

which keeps going

and going

[tawny oar]

thats pre 70's

[sacred dove]

Really?

I thought they where 60's vintage

[tawny oar]

sorry, i put the wrong decade

[sacred dove]

Lol 😄

[tawny oar]

basically, mostly anything post steam = ugly

[sacred dove]

Too bad unlike cars its not cheap or practical to try and make a locomotive that has "moderised" styling inspired by the past like the modern mutangs and Cameros

But I wonder how you'd even make a Locomotive look modern with the old style BR locomotives

[tawny oar]

you need to return to locomotive hauled trains for that

[sacred dove]

like how the Class 37 and Class 55 had noses

[tawny oar]

and there's no way that will ever happen

[sacred dove]

Thats kinda cursed

[tawny oar]

https://gfycat.com/reliableslipperyelk

[sacred dove]

TBH my favorite style of car and locomotive/mu would have to be the 80's stuff where stuff was made with ANGLES and sharp lines

Or angled with smooth corners too

like how the APT, IC125 and HST look

The Eurostar trains also have something to them that I like

[tawny oar]

. . . you know the IC125 and HST are the same train right?

[sacred dove]

I meant to say the IC 225

😄

[tawny oar]

ah

[tawny oar]

yeah i like the class 91's (IC225)

[sacred dove]

Though I think it like it with this color scheme a bit more

[tawny oar]

probably the fact they're locomotives

not MU's

[sacred dove]

Yeah

though the way stuff like this is run is as the power car for a trainset

[tawny oar]

anyways, to take things back a couple decades

have an LNER deltic

[sacred dove]

Did that ever happen?

[tawny oar]

nope

[sacred dove]

or is that just a fictional paint job?

[tawny oar]

fictional

wish it wasn't though

[sacred dove]

Makes the Deltic look a lot older 😄

[tawny oar]

can you imagine if the big four survived?

[sacred dove]

Like something that could have come out in the late 40's or 50's

Imagine if the UK dieselised earlier

[tawny oar]

well the image is the prototype deltic which was made in the 50's

[sacred dove]

like starting as early as the USA did

[tawny oar]

hell naw

[sacred dove]

with mainline stuff coming out at the end of the 30's

[tawny oar]

i like the reverse

imagine if the initial BR plan was followed

steam until the 90's when the electrification was finished

[sacred dove]

Oh wow

Then again, imagine if steam kept going

as in, the technology kept being improved upon and new bodies used

[tawny oar]

quite easy to imagine

[sacred dove]

I mean I know that most people like Kettles for that classic steam locomotive look

[tawny oar]

electric valve gear

[sacred dove]

But how about sleek modern "high speed" looking steam engines

[tawny oar]

mechanical stokers

roller bearings on ALL the motion parts

[sacred dove]

Too bad the Leader was a fail 😄

[tawny oar]

oh lord no

we'd likely still see mallard style trains even with modern tech

[sacred dove]

How about turn the mallard round but give the cab the same front look

Make a steam locomotive cab forward but with a sleek front

ENH I can't be arsed to doodle things properly

[tawny oar]

so this basically

[sacred dove]

Yeah, but give it a sleeker look

Though I imagine a F-unit style cab-forward design would still run a bit better than a flat fronted AC-8 or AC-12

Or imagine a steam locomotive but cab-forward, and BR style Nose like on a Class 37

HONESTLY
I hope the UKRS2 in NML set will not only redo the UKRS v2 set but also expand on it as much as you guys can

[tawny oar]

we certainly plan to expand

[sacred dove]

I dont expect every single model and varient of locomotive and MU, but it'd be nice to see most old and new stuff, even the experimental and maybe paper trains done

[tawny oar]

buffet cars, sleeper cars

[sacred dove]

Disco Car!

[tawny oar]

no

we got pullmans though

and the brighton belle

[sacred dove]

Why no Disco car 😄

I was planning on doing that for the Belgian Train set 😄

Because even the belgians had to boogie

Boogie on the bogies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlT_8GbTQfo

[tawny oar]

because i have no idea what they look like from the outside

[sacred dove]

Ahh yeah

trying to look it up I only get apicture of the inside which I dont even know if thats from the UK

The inside makes it look more like a frieght car with speakers and lights

and not a lot of space to boogie

Then again the UK loading gauge is a bit restrictive

[tawny oar]

turns out they were converted from full brake mk1's

[sacred dove]

Ahh

So if anything at the end of the day they'd probably just mostly look like modified MK1's

[tawny oar]

they'd look like the standard mail coach

[sacred dove]

Too bad you couldn't code it so that it'll bring in a bit more money if you include it in your train

[tawny oar]

you kinda can(ish)

the buffet cars will reduce running costs on trains that use them

the pullman cars reduce the decay rate somewhat

and
the sleeper cars do the same but on a larger level (but have a reduced capacity)

[void roost]

APT-E will be in BRSet, I've already half drawn it but put it on hold while I do some locomotive rescaling stuff

[tawny oar]

so the disco car's kinda obsolete

[sacred dove]

Yeah

the disco era only lasted for like, the 60's and 70's, and a slight revival in the 80';s

Now its a bit of ajoke but I do like the funky music

From metal to disco, My taste in music keeps changing as I grow older

[tawny oar]

Well this is interesting, somebody over on the shipbucket forums made an image of the HST initial concept design

[void roost]

Yeah it's basically the same as the HST prototype but before they started looking at cab designs

Initially it basically looked like a 47 in the first drawings. It was never really a "design" though, more concept art

[tawny oar]

well now i wanna try and make it

[void roost]

Whack a 47 cab onto your HST prototype, job done

I considered adding it as a livery to the HST prototype for BRSet

[tawny oar]

sounds simple enough

[void roost]

I doubt it would take more than a few minutes, but I left it out of BRSet because it was never actually built

[tawny oar]

yeah... this gonna take some time

[void roost]

I didn't find it too bad tbh

Faster to graft the 47 cab onto the HST power car rather than re-draw the 47 into a whole powercar

Different amounts of yellow around the cab because I was just playing around, I have no intention of adding it to the set

[tawny oar]

well i started out by making an entirely new class 47 livery

black roof intercity livery

(gonna make a deltic in InterCity livery at some point)

next step

repaint the black roof to the same black as the hst roof

[tawny oar]

As for what this train could be used for

im thinking either it could be a freight version of the 125

sacrifices speed for pulling power

[void roost]

I'd just leave it as a skin for the HST prototype myself, and give the prototype high running costs but available earlier

[tawny oar]

fairy's working on a "major graphics changes are seperate vehicles" system

and since this is pretty dang major

it will likely be its own thing

[tawny oar]

the HST concept is now finished

@snow carbon WD 2-8-0 finished in CC1

[tawny oar]

im thinking about making Conflat containers for the small flatbed wagon

[tawny oar]

what i got so far

i had to make a new wagon for it, and no it won't be getting all the other flatbed cargos, conflats were VERY rarely used for anything other than the containers

like, the occasional tractor, and thats it

[tawny oar]

Empty, large container, small container

debating if i want to make a 2 container version

it doesn't look as good

OK, not doing 2 container version

[strange zodiac]

tbh I think that looks good

[tawny oar]

can you tell there are 2 containers?

[tawny oar]

"Conflat A" wagon Finished

empty, large container, small container, 2 small containers

in both grey and CC1 blue

[tawny oar]

i also re-did the large container to be more fitting with the small ones

[void roost]

Just looks like 1 to me tbh

[strange zodiac]

not atm, but if you shade the endges a little you could make it look like 2

[tawny oar]

easier said than done

i have a VERY limited colour palette to work with, as in im having to piece the palette together from the various Gray wagons the pack has

i could do this

but then it looks kinda like a cylinder

[strange zodiac]

I think that looks good tbh

from a distance it looks like 2 boxes

at least imo

[tawny oar]

hmmmm

hypothetical

[strange zodiac]

that actually works

it's more subtle, but makes it look more cubish

[tawny oar]

works in the other direction

small crate sides edited

[strange zodiac]

looks good!

[tawny oar]

yey

[tawny oar]

ive also made longer coaches for the Eurostar

[tawny oar]

so a while back i did TTD lettering on the side of the ICI hopper wagons
(example shown: cc1 with cc2 letters)

and just now i managed to stitch the full range of "white" together

so i want the opinion of if i should make a full white set

as it stands out much better

for comparison
(cc1 with cc2 letters, grey with cc1 letters)

[tawny oar]

(blue with white, grey with white and new colour, black with white)

[tawny oar]

Am i going over the top with the ICI hoppers? Most likely. Am i going to stop? Hell no.

[strange zodiac]

I think having the lettering looks good

if it's mixed in with the existing hopper sprites, it'll help spice things up a bit too

[tawny oar]

which do you think is better?

the white letters or the 2CC ones?

personally i prefer the white ones as you can actually see them

[tawny oar]

thats the idea, like the 5-plank wagons, over the years the hoppers change colour or gain the TTD letters

[strange zodiac]

I agree with you there, white looks better

[strange zodiac]

fair enough

[tawny oar]

forgive me, for i am sinning

i said i would never make it, but i am now making the thompson pacifics

(300% zoom)

row 1 = thompson pacifc
row 2 = gresley pacific

[tawny oar]

all angles complete and a smoke deflector equipped version has been made too

and because i was in the zone, a fully UN-streamlined P2 "highlander"

[tawny oar]

inspiration from this picture

[void roost]

I really hate people who are good at drawing steam trains. Nice work

If you ever run out of things to draw, I've got a list as long as my arm of British steam trains that BRSet needs

[tawny oar]

i can't draw from scratch that well

pretty much everything ive made is a kitbash of other UKRS2 locos/rolling stock

[void roost]

I can't even modify other people's kettles very well 😂

[tawny oar]

and TBH i can't do much beyond the LNER

gonna be honest, the thompson's have been the hardest to do except for the highlander (P2)

[tawny oar]

the cylinders were a right git to get into position

[tawny oar]

aaaand because i was bored, i turned the 0-4-4 metropolitan into the 4-4-0 metropolitan

in other words i turned it from this:

to this

well, as much as i could considering the scale

[strange zodiac]

Looks good!

[tawny oar]

Anybody got any ideas for trains i could do?

currently planning how to redo the 5at as it should be

because this is a pacific

and the 5at is a 4-6-0

[tawny oar]

This:

is what i've currently got

the jubilee boiler mated to a modified GT3 cab and tender

[tawny oar]

hmm

6 wheels or 8 wheels

[strange zodiac]

I think 8 looks better

but I feel like 8 rigid axles wouldn't go well on a tender

[tawny oar]

tell that to the LNER

[strange zodiac]

Maybe I will!

Bloody stupid british people >:C

[tawny oar]

gonna go with 8 wheel ones

as the real thing was designed with an oversized bogie tender

[tawny oar]

And finished

both with and without smoke deflectors

Also, a comparison with the old 5at

[tawny oar]

came out quite nicely if i do say so myself

[tawny oar]

then you've never seen the centipede tender

small 4 wheel bogie at the front and 5 fixed axles

[strange zodiac]

looks good imo!

[strange zodiac]

I feel sorry for that trackwork

although american trackwork was up to developed nation standards at that time, so I guess it would have been less of an issue

[tawny oar]

so was the UK trackwork

4 wheel tenders are nothing for the tracks here to deal with

[strange zodiac]

well fair enough

I think the largest we ever did in Australia was six wheel rigid tenders

any larger we'd do bogie tenders

although australian trackage during the steam days was relatively poor, especially in the outback

[tawny oar]

Realised an error i made on the 5AT

the real one was meant to have disk wheels, like the merchant navy class' wheels
fixed version below

[tawny oar]

seriously though, can anybody think of anything i could make?

[plain island]

maybe the GNR L1? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNR_Class_L1

[tawny oar]

hmm

i think i can do that

hmmm

hows this as a start?

using the Prairie as a base

yeah this one might be a bit harder to do

[plain island]

yeahh not sure if there's really anything to base it off

the L1 looks kinda big to be based off the prairie tbhh

closest thing might be the decapod? but that doesn't have the side tanks

[tawny oar]

yeah im beginning to doubt i can do it

so for now im making the large boiler atlantic

[tawny oar]

aaaand finished

[tawny oar]

@twilit geyser in here

[twilit geyser]

Oh, this is AWESOME!

[tawny oar]

indeed

[tawny oar]

OK found a new thing to make

the class 205 DEMU

[vocal kettle]

ayooo good shout

ngl more SR representation is a thing needed in general I'd say

[tawny oar]

its not an SR unit

[vocal kettle]

fella

what

[tawny oar]

Southern REGION yes

but not southern railway

it was first built in 1957

[vocal kettle]

SR also means southern region ;-;

[tawny oar]

never heard it like that before

[vocal kettle]

like 90% of rail fans in the region will say yes

[tawny oar]

everybody ive heard uses SR exclusively for the southern railway

[vocal kettle]

depends on what communities you're in ig

[tawny oar]

i suppose

[tawny oar]

im trying to make a W1 (rebuilt condition as i doubt i can do a pre-rebuilt one)

but since that's proving difficult i've made the never built R (4-8-2) series of locomotives

top is the R1 (version(s) with smoke deflectors in progress)

bottom is the R2 (no valance version in progress)

stats for such locomotives?

https://tenor.com/view/medic-tf2medic-idk-i-have-no-idea-crazy-gif-22434420

as it stands i'm not sure if i should give these monsters the regular LNER tender or make them a suitable massive 10 wheel tender

like the tender from this

[tawny oar]

as things stand (using lner tender for now)

[tawny oar]

i made a 10 wheel tender

in comparison to a regular 8 wheel one

[plain island]

imo top one looks better

[tawny oar]

yeah it does fit better

[tawny oar]

Got a new idea brewing with thanks to this image

[neat vessel]

Hello there. Not sure if my name rings any bells but I did a bit of work on the UKRS set some years back (Kitbashed a few things together to make a Royal Scot, amongst other things).

I am not a huuugely prolific artist but, I've had a few years to get better so, if you are looking for any assistance, and if such assistance be welcome, i'd love to help out further.

[tawny oar]

greetings to you fellow artist

generally art-wise we're at the stage of making things as we think of them

[neat vessel]

Alrighty. Is there any sort of over arching plan or just "this seems cool" ?

[tawny oar]

this seems cool

we long finished converting all the old sprites to a new format

and i've made a large bunch of new loco's and rolling stock

the 2-8-2 mikado and highlander (LNER P1 and P2)
the 4-6-2 peppercorn
pullman coaches
buffet coaches
brake coaches
a corporate livery for the express mail carriage
a corporate livery for the articulated coaches and seperated the beavertail observation car into its own coach
a GWR toad brake van
an LNER quad art commuter coach set
separated the MU middle coaches into coaches locomotives can pull
a new 5AT to replace the rather poor old version

[tawny oar]

This, is my current project

[neat vessel]

Righto. I've been scrolling back a bit on the thread. I think a few GWR Tender locos would be nice. A Hall, Manor and King at max? I am not a GWR fan but running a "big game" where I am trying to represent all four of the "big four" does leave them a little anaemic (i've previously represented Halls and Manors with Black 5s and Jubilees, and Kings with A3s)

The Peppercorns are welcome, as the A1s and A3s get rather long in the tooth and need replacement in the late 40s and there isn't anything to replace them with that is historically fitting. The Peppercorns fit that nicely

[tawny oar]

oh yeah i also "made" an A3 by swapping the tender for that from the streak

and i made a Hall a while back

[neat vessel]

Perhaps a Princess Royal? (yes I am an LMS fan 😄 ) although I know we have the Royal Scot I did (badly needed I felt) and the Princess Coronation so hmm

[tawny oar]

if you want to make it, go ahead

just make sure it fits the scale fairyfloss set out

here's the guide

[neat vessel]

I could try and "shrink" a de-streamlined Coronation to look like a Princess

[tawny oar]

all the pacifics are size "7"

[neat vessel]

Well i was meaning make it look less bulky etc

smaller boiler

[tawny oar]

ah right

though im not sure where fairyfloss has vanished off too recently

[tawny oar]

@snow carbon this isn't abandoned is it?

[snow carbon]

It isn't, but it is on hold. My job has been taking a toll on my energy and mental wellbeing so I'm focusing on resolving that first, and hopefully getting back my energy to actually do anything so I can finish this.

[neat vessel]

Understandable 🙂

[tawny oar]

most understandable

i was concerned as you had actually vanished from the list of people on the right

[burnt valve]

@blissful viper

[blissful viper]

Ah yes

[tawny oar]

Welcome

[tawny oar]

i like this "preservation train" idea timberwolf had
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1241076#p1241076

[neat vessel]

Aye, I noticed that in his set. I will be playing with his set in my newest game so I'll see how it plays out

[burnt valve]

will you be buffing the capacity of the ukrs2 carriages and wagons? check #jgr-server-chat for context

[tawny oar]

i dont think so

though that might be a parameter option

there are gonna be a LOAD of new coaches though

[burnt valve]

shame

[tawny oar]

im just the artist

you want fairyfloss for techincal details

and some of the coaches are gonna have higher capacity though

[snow carbon]

it's gonna be a parameter option

intended are like... 3 options?

you'll get to choose between capacities in like with the UKRS2 default, something more like Timberwolf's set, and then a third that will either be in-between or even more generous than Timberwolf's set, undecided atm

[tawny oar]

concept to tie in with this: the support coach
gets introduced in the dieselisation period (1960's - 70's).
halves steam engine running costs/improves reliability (if reliability altering is a thing that can be done)

and possibly removes the speed limit on a diesel locomotive at the back

[snow carbon]

What effect would this even have

[tawny oar]

most of the diesels run slower than the steam engines, with only the class 67 being faster with its 140 MPH top speed

so having one on the back would slow the steam engine down

so i figured why couldn't the support coach remove that limit and let the train go at the steam engines top speed

though now that i think about it, only the pacifics would have this issue as the other steam engines aren't faster than diesels

[burnt valve]

Yeah, even with a class 37 you’re only losing like 10mph in most of the top steam trains

The only real exceptions will be the coronation and a4

[tawny oar]

what classes of diesel were/are most commonly used for assisting steam engines?

i doubt the deltics were ever used for it

[burnt valve]

I’ve seen class 31s do it

I’d wager that 37s are common

[tawny oar]

class 47's seem common as well

[tawny oar]

haven't seen any of those actually

[vocal kettle]

yeah 47s and 37s are the most common nowadays

you only see 37s on West Coast Railway Company charters though supporting kettles

[burnt valve]

The 31 assisted a steam train from Whitby to Grosmont on the steam gala day

[vocal kettle]

OH on heritage railways that makes sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EJ1SKA6DU

mainline nowadays it's almost exclusively 47s, with 37s appearing sometimes like I said on WCRC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hs9St29nM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNv0bc2gWgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CUZWrPe5bA

[tawny oar]

have 67's ever been used as pushers?

[burnt valve]

The 37 and 47 aren’t normally there but were that day

[burnt valve]

Heyy

[vocal kettle]

A big thing to note though is that ever since steam was withdrawn from mainline stock in the 60s all steam railtours are limited to 75mph

well, idk if it was implemented straight away

[vocal kettle]

the only exception ever to this has been Tornado in recent times

[tawny oar]

at first steam was straight up banned, only flying scotsman was allowed

[vocal kettle]

oh yeah true

[tawny oar]

then in the 70's~ish they were allowed

idk when the speed limit came in tho

[vocal kettle]

yeah I'm just mentioning this because this feature would be redundant if you really wanted to simulate modern railtour stuff

well the speed feature thing you mentioned

[burnt valve]

Also they’re not always diesel assisted

[vocal kettle]

true

[burnt valve]

As you saw there

[tawny oar]

yeah i'm not too concerned about the diesels now

[burnt valve]

In fact

[vocal kettle]

I think they're rarely ever assisted on heritage railways

[burnt valve]

Most trains on that day weren’t assisted

[vocal kettle]

yeah it's not common at all

[tawny oar]

that wasn't the mainline, it was on a heritage line

[vocal kettle]

in fact I saw a video of a steam train assisting a Class 33 on the Swanage railway recently lol

[burnt valve]

Fair point

The only assisted train i saw had come from the mainline

[tawny oar]

on the mainline ALL steam trains are given diesel helpers

[burnt valve]

Still funny that they used a 31

[vocal kettle]

I've seen some that haven't

[vocal kettle]

when they don't have a diesel assisting them they use a generator coach for ETH instead

[burnt valve]

I tried to get a full video of it leaving but tourists got in the way

[tawny oar]

ETH?

[vocal kettle]

Electric Train Heating

[tawny oar]

oh electric train heating

yeah the diesel's not there for that

[vocal kettle]

https://youtu.be/bJLfkRPgP0A

[tawny oar]

the diesel is for if the steamer breaks down

[vocal kettle]

I was there for this railtour at Eastliegh, doesn't have a diesel on it

[tawny oar]

shrugs

either way it had a support coach

[vocal kettle]

I think they're attached for various reasons tbh

[vocal kettle]

well yeah but that ain't an entirely separate loco innit

[tawny oar]

true but my original post was about support coaches

i envision they would reduce running costs (to help fight how expensive they get in the later years) and improve reliability (if such a thing can be done)

[burnt valve]

Don’t most people play without breakdowns and money isn’t an issue anyway

[tawny oar]

maybe but we already plan to have buffet cars that work like Iron horse's

[burnt valve]

I’m not familiar

[tawny oar]

in iron horse, buffet cars eliminate the running cost of a trains passenger cars

[burnt valve]

Ahh

[tawny oar]

in NMLUKRS2 they would half the running costs, and the support coach would do the same for steam locomotives

[burnt valve]

Do you plan to fully implement all ukrs2 plus addon stuff?

And what are you doing with the GWR railcar?

[tawny oar]

we plan to add EVERYTHING

and more

[burnt valve]

It would be cool to be able to buy them in sets of 1 and 2

As currently they get janky if you add more than like 2 or 3 to a set

[tawny oar]

uhh i think the GWR will work the same as it currently does. BUT i made a freight version of the 2-car set

[burnt valve]

Freight was also used in 1 car iirc

But yeah

Say i wanted 2 or 3 pairs of cars, you just can’t do that right now

[tawny oar]

yes but it annoyed me that it didn't exist, so i made one

[tawny oar]

do you mean something like this?

[burnt valve]

Yeah

It would also be cool if the white part worked as CC 2

[tawny oar]

they didnt work like that IRL

[burnt valve]

Sure, but it would be neat if it worked

[tawny oar]

despite being 2 car sets, they were built as 2 single end units

so you juts put coaches between them

[burnt valve]

I know

[tawny oar]

yeah im thinking about doing that

[burnt valve]

But 3 was really the limit

[tawny oar]

true

[burnt valve]

Could you make it so they can be done like this?

As a treat

[tawny oar]

thats fairyfloss' department

[burnt valve]

Fair

[tawny oar]

i'm art department

fairyfloss handle's mechanical workings

[burnt valve]

The GWR railcar is something i plan to make purely because of this issue

[tawny oar]

fairyfloss has been splitting engines that undergo a MAJOR image change over time into seperate engines

E.G. the stanier 2-8-0 and the WD 2-8-0 are now seperate engines

[burnt valve]

You mean like the 81 and 86?

[tawny oar]

the what?

[burnt valve]

And the merchant navies

[burnt valve]

Br class 81 and 86

[tawny oar]

no those are still the same engine

BUT i think you can choose what iteration you want via refit

[burnt valve]

Honestly if it was up to me I’d make it so you can change to any livery on refit

[tawny oar]

yep thats whats planned (i think)

[burnt valve]

Until andys thing becomes main

[tawny oar]

we even have brand new engines

the 2-8-2 mikado, 4-6-2 peppercorn and the brighton belle to name a few (made by yours truely)

[burnt valve]

I’ve seen some new things

Fairy sent me the grf a while back

[tawny oar]

oh, cool

[burnt valve]

I think checking the railcar was one of the first things i did

What your policy on real life liveries is also radically impacts the amount of stuff i plan to make

[tawny oar]

idk what the policy is on that, i just make a CC1 and Black version and let fairyfloss handle the rest

[burnt valve]

Ahh

This is the list of things i plan to make

But if you accept real life liveries then I’ll just edit the ones you have made and give you them for your set

[tawny oar]

is this list for NML UKRS2?!

[burnt valve]

It’s my personal list, I’m either gonna make them myself or make them for rukts

[tawny oar]

ah ok

also this might be of use for making the Blue Pullman

[burnt valve]

But things like the 42 and 52 that you already have I’d happily edit to real life and give you

[tawny oar]

uhhh, not sure if we have those

[burnt valve]

You do

You have a lot of those

[vocal kettle]

yee UKRS2 has them both

Warship and Westerns

[tawny oar]

ohhh right yeah we have those

[burnt valve]

Half of that list is in ukrs2

[tawny oar]

i'd ask fairyfloss just to be safe

[burnt valve]

@snow carbon are you doing real life liveries? If so I’d happily edit all trains from that list that are already in ukrs2 to have the real life ones

I’m more than happy making stuff for both rukts and ukrs2

GRANTED, ideally you two would just team up

But so long as those trains exist in some form I’m pretty happy

You both already work at the same scale in terms of height

And both sets fill in many of the gaps the other has, intentionally or not

[snow carbon]

Yes, that is the plan. I intend to provide choice between 2CC and Real Life Liveries at the same time

[twilit geyser]

Bearing in mind in real life the same locomotive can only do 125mph?

[twilit geyser]

Initially, all steam was banned except for 60103 "Flying Scotsman"...

[twilit geyser]

Completely eliminate? I can see them paying back what the 1st Class carriages cost, but an entire train?

[burnt valve]

nice! when i get around to them would you accept real life liveries i've done if they're not already done?

[snow carbon]

Yeah, certainly

[burnt valve]

sweet!

[tawny oar]

thats what they do, though i think fairyfloss intends for the NMLUKRS2 version to only reduce it by about half though

[tawny oar]

a picture of the Iron Horse Restaurant Cars

[tawny oar]

all 5 work the same way, the only difference is that as you go down the list they can go faster

[tawny oar]

inspired by this comment:
i am now making alternate versions that use CC2 instead of the grey
standard carriage / mk 1

[vocal kettle]

yesss going down the right route

[tawny oar]

mk 2

[burnt valve]

nice!

will the same idea apply to the GWR railcar?

[tawny oar]

yep

[burnt valve]

nice!

might i advise now that variants are a thing that the 1, 2 and 3 car versions of the railcar become technically different vehicles to solve the graphical issues?

[tawny oar]

a g a i n, im just the artist

[burnt valve]

i know, but surely you have some say in the vehicles you're working on

[tawny oar]

nope

[burnt valve]

damn

[tawny oar]

i just make them

i draw them and provide some stats in the case of locomotives, fairy makes them work in the game

i have ABSOLUTELY no idea how the coding side works

[burnt valve]

you're even worse than me then

i like it

idk how code stuff works, but i have a template kindly made by dP, the template is very simple and almost plain english, so someone like me can add things and do stuff with it

[tawny oar]

high speed carriage

and that is where im gonna leave it for now

[burnt valve]

👀

[tawny oar]

i also realised i'll need to do the clerestory AND the brake varients i made

yes i made brake coaches

[burnt valve]

i was wondering why only cargo required them

[tawny oar]

tbh i only did them because the clerestory already had one

its only (intended to be) a cosmetic thing

[tawny oar]

standard / mk 1 brake

mk 2 brake

no there is not a variant for the high speed carriage

[burnt valve]

thank god

[tawny oar]

oh did i forget to mention the BUFFET cars?

gotta do them too

[tawny oar]

High speed buffet carriage

standard/ Mk 1 buffet carriage

mk 2 buffet carriage

[tawny oar]

aaand now i've made a mail car for the HST

other HST variants will follow at some point

[tawny oar]

just finished an update to the slam door carriage

removed the corridors, added brake variants and 2CC versions

[tawny oar]

and because i could, i made a train using the 2-6-4 suburban

[snow carbon]

Okay so gonna be picking up working on this again soon now that I no longer have a job to keep me energy-less, and I'm gonna be implementing Variants!

I've put some thought into how exactly I want to implement this, and since nesting variants is possible, I want to make use of that. The lowest level for a vehicle will be a specific colouring of a livery (2CC, 2CC inverted, Real Life Colours), then one level above that will be the different livery options (NSE, BR, LMS, etc), then the level above that will be variants on the same vehicle.

This does mean that, yes, there will be various different layers, but none should be unreasonably big on their own.

[vocal kettle]

I didn't even know layering was a thing that could be done

[snow carbon]

It looks slightly odd but it's possible, yeah, though the wiki says it might change in the future? I hope not, at least

But it's as simple as just

Making something a variant of something that is a variant itself

[tawny oar]

what do you mean by "slightly odd"

[tawny oar]

? looks fine to me

[snow carbon]

It just takes some getting used to

Because things appear in it twice

Hence why it's only "slightly odd"

[tawny oar]

ohh now it makes sense

i thought you meant the liveries would look wrong

[neat vessel]

Excellent news. I'll be getting to work on some sprites too 🙂

[tawny oar]

nice

what you gonna make?

[neat vessel]

Unsure as of yet but i'll see what I can rustle up

[snow carbon]

I've got a Class 10100, D16/2, Blue Pullman and an Ivatt Class 2/BR Standard Class 2 on my 'wishlist' for this set if you need ideas

Anyway, lil' status update on progress so far. Woking on getting things set up for the update, gonna need to bulk add palettes to images, but that will come later.

Initial versions will not have stat/introduction date differences between all the liveries, simply to make building the set easier using the method I'm using.

[neat vessel]

hmmm I may just give one of those a go.

[snow carbon]

For the Class 2, you could use the existing Ivatt as a base
For the Class 10100, it's a bit like the EE1
For the D16/2, the SR CC or maybe even the leader could be used as a base

These are the notes I wrote myself for how to try and sprite-bash them

[neat vessel]

I was considering the SR CC with the chassis of a Class 40

(for the D16/2)

[tawny oar]

perhaps my HST concept could be re-purposed into a blue pullman?

this

[snow carbon]

the Blue Pullman doesn't have a flat nose

[tawny oar]

thats a HST

and at the resolution of UKRS2 it might as well have a flat front

[snow carbon]

yeah that specific one was a HST, I noticed that after

I imagine it'd have a VERY slight nose still

[tawny oar]

oh right

did you get the updated brighton belle fairy?

[tawny oar]

or the various other things ive made?

[neat vessel]

Right apologies for the delay, do you have sprite sheets or a way to decode the GRF so I can start cutting and pasting?

[tawny oar]

here's a link to the githubs GFX section

https://github.com/FranticFairy/FairyUKSet/tree/main/gfx

thats where everything can be found

[neat vessel]

Excellent, thank you

[neat vessel]

Okay, first draft but it came out better than I thought

British Railways Class D16/2

Technically came in three liveries. The original BTC Black and Silver. Then in lined Brunswick Green, and finally Brunswick Green with small yellow panels, but I am unsure how long they wore that as they were scrapped in 1968

[neat vessel]

Thought i'd do the yellow panel version as well since it was a small edit 🙂

[snow carbon]

is it possible for you to send me a .zip or something similiar with all stuff you've made?

[snow carbon]

I'm also going to be including DBSOs/DVTs, probably. Gonna code them as multi-headed vehicles like the MUs are, so I don't have to worry about code shenanigans with getting things to flip nicely. Of course, the carriages in-between won't necessarily flip well, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for funky DBSOs.

Variants makes this more feasible since I can just make the locomotive/DBSO combi options all be variants

[vocal kettle]

this is the better way to do things

avoid how i did DVTs at all costs lol

[tawny oar]

That's not going to be easy. I didn't keep a copy of them

[snow carbon]

Ah, alright, I'll just scour through PMs and this chat, then

[tawny oar]

sorry

[twilit geyser]

Pro tip from a non-pro: Always keep copies of everything. So many people have learnt this the hard way...

[snow carbon]

It's not like anything was lost, just would've been easier to have it all in one go

[neat vessel]

I do keep copies 🙂 old habits die hard. Is the D16/2 okay btw?

[snow carbon]

Yes, looks nice in-game too

[tawny oar]

how do the sprites look?

[neat vessel]

Excellent, I'll take a stab at something else

[tawny oar]

anybody got any ideas on how to do the class 13?

im having trouble with the cabless half

[snow carbon]

will show one of the coming days, working on doing some things with the sprites, and need to see if there's a way for me to mass-apply the palette to the images so I can show of most of the stuff ma de

[neat vessel]

@tawny oar

[tawny oar]

oh, derp

[neat vessel]

No problem 🙂 its built from the body of the SR CC/Class 70 (but lengthened) with the frames and buffers of the Class 44

[tawny oar]

found a VERY minor tweak that needs doing

on sprites 4 and 8 (the ones looking to the bottom right) there is a single CC2 pixel

[neat vessel]

Ah, missed that one, sorry

[tawny oar]

no worries

[tawny oar]

hey fairyfloss, did you manage to fix the garratt's middle section being the wrong colour?

[snow carbon]

Yes

I don't know what the issue was, but I managed to fix it

[tawny oar]

hurray

i found this interesting concept over on deviantart

and im thinking of trying to make a british version for the project

class 67 cabs mated to class 58 or class 70 middle sections

[strange zodiac]

that looks like an Australian locomotive that took steroids and smacked its forehead

[vocal kettle]

also incredible long by the looks of it

[tawny oar]

The concept is australian, i just plan on making a UK version

And it's a garnett design, meaning that the ends can twist

[tawny oar]

fun little side effect of the diesel garratt project

the class 67 and the class 58 now have plain 2CC liveries

[neat vessel]

So, 58s and 67 in BR Blue, essentially 😄

The 70s never ended. What a horrific timeline that is

[tawny oar]

lol

i might be able to do it to the 66 as well

and i was able to

[neat vessel]

Question: Can we repurpose the HA/Class 71 into a Class 74?

Perhaps as a variant?

[tawny oar]

dont see why not

[tawny oar]

did the Class 70 too

the diesel garratt might take a while to make

its proving a tough one

[tawny oar]

yeah i might give up on this one

here's what i have so far

[tawny oar]

might try to make the alternate bunker for the regular garratt instead

[strange zodiac]

is it something that actually went somewhere?

because I'd be interesting to know more

[strange zodiac]

Also, that's cool

[tawny oar]

nope its purely a fictional what if design somebody on deviantart made

[strange zodiac]

fair enough

is there a link to the post?

[tawny oar]

https://www.deviantart.com/dounutcereal/art/Diesel-Garratt-Concept-JTA56D-ACe-pic-1-339560440
https://www.deviantart.com/dounutcereal/art/Diesel-Garratt-Concept-JTA56D-ACe-pic-2-339561018

[strange zodiac]

oh no, they're a furry

thanks btw :3

[tawny oar]

np

Diesel Garratt workshops at the moment:

a mess of locomotives in various states of assembly

as for what stats this monster would have?

i have absolutely no freaking clue

got a name for it though

the "Juggernaut" class

because really thats the only word suitable for such a machine

[tawny oar]

aaand finished the other bunker for the garratt

and how it looks attached to the rest of the garratt

and during development i tested it against the old garratt, so i have a picture of it at an angle rather than side on

(original left, new one right)

Also, update on the diesel garratt project

i lengthened the center body section to overhang the end units

[snow carbon]

anyone know what the open-cab 0-6-0 in UKRS might be? I have the open-cab 0-4-2 listed in my documents as a GWR 517 Class, but don't really know what the 0-6-0 represents

[frank kettle]

what stops you from saying it is a industrial engine?

[snow carbon]

I'd ideally use a real-life equivalent to base the nickname on, and to adjust the filename a bit to make things easier code-wise

I'll make something up if I can't find anything

[twilit geyser]

It looks like a GWR loco as far as my limited knowledge tells me, but I wouldn't know what the early locos of any other company looked like...

I reckon it's a George Armstrong locomotive, but I can't figure out what it might be...

After Armstrong, the GWR leaned heavily into their Pannier Tank locomotives, so this was probably one of the last non-Pannier locos...

[twilit geyser]

Would you say that's a Pannier or not? The only one I can find at the moment with that sort of cab is the GWR 645 Class, which was a pannier locomotive...

[snow carbon]

It's not a pannier, it shares most of it's sprite with a Jinty, except the cab is open

[twilit geyser]

Huh... Ok... I'm at a loss then, but I think it's some sort of George Armstrong locomotive.

[snow carbon]

I'll look more after lunch, thanks for your input, though!

[neat vessel]

I think the open cab 0-6-0 is a Midland "Jinty"

1377 Class I believe

Nicknamed "half-cabs" for obvious reasons

[twilit geyser]

Ok, so I was wrong about it being an Armstrong locomotive...

[snow carbon]

Ohhhhhh

I was so very close then, I had them labelled as 'Half-Cab' as a nickname, but loco class as 'Johnson 2441', so I figured Half-cab was something I came up with myself

But yeah that's what it is, then

and not this one I found just now

[twilit geyser]

Question: Is there any sort of plan for this? Like, is there a list of musts/minimums that are necessary before it is released, or are you just modelling whatever you fancy from day-to-day?

[snow carbon]

The current plan is to include the new Variants to make liveries a thing, fix some bugs in my test version, and then release the first version

anything that gets made in the meantime that is historically-accurate will get into the first release, anything else either gets added in later releases or in a fiction add-on set

[twilit geyser]

Ok, so it's pretty much my second option. You're modelling whatever you fancy from day to day... Well, it seems to have worked so far. I just wanted to ask that question for some reason.

[snow carbon]

actually, I might just...

test release. Doesn't have variants yet, and wagons don't show loads, let me know if you stumble across any significant bugs in what is currently there

[neat vessel]

Just wondering FairyFloss if you saw my suggestion for a Class 74 variant of the HB/Class 71

[snow carbon]

Anyway, this has sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole, and I'm tempted to add an open-cab Saddle tank and Pannier tank, too, in the form of the GWR 1076 and 645/655 respectively, only I have an issue with both that I'd like some opinions on.

• I can't really find stats for the 1076, or at least, I don't know where to look
• the 645 and 655 didn't originally start as pannier tanks. Do I introduce them with a pannier tank sprite when they were first introduced, do I introduce them when they got the pannier tanks, or do I add 'open-cab pannier tank' as a variant livery to the 0-6-0 Half-Cab?

[snow carbon]

Also yes I saw that, I'm still considering it. Would they be visually different?

[neat vessel]

Not at OpenTTD scale

Would be handy to have an Electro-Diesel variant, with quite considerably reduced reliability

My ethos, and, it might be the wrong one, tis fine, is that while lovely graphics are nice (and who doesn't like them), if we can make useful variants with the minimal amount of graphical changes, then that's adding useful engines and equipment with sprites we already have. A good part of the work is already done

[neat vessel]

I think saddle tanks as introduced, with a half cab as a livery variation, of course both selectable whenever but with date information (So, players can choose to refit them as they see fit, but with the historical information alongside)

So something like

0-6-0T GWR 645/655 (Saddle Tanks - Half-Cab - 1872)
0-6-0T GWR 645/655 (Pannier Tanks - Half-Cab - 1918)

[snow carbon]

I don't have issues with this, however, there are some limitations/personal opinions that play into this

First of all, with the way I will be generating code, having stat-differing variants might be a bit more difficult, but I'll have to look into it.

Secondly, I'm only interested in doing this if the stat differences would be significant enough. For example, I don't want to add three different 0-6-0T locomotives that all function identically but give them all specific names, when one locomotive with a generic name could fill in for all three of them

However, the Class 74 would be a valid inclusion

[neat vessel]

You're the lead designer, I cede to your vision 🙂 just putting how I view things forward. Also I don't know how difficult coding these things are so, indeed that's something to take into account

Oh certainly, near identical steam engines etc would be of no great gain. I am meaning things with some technical and gameplay difference

[snow carbon]

I may be the lead designer, but I do still want other people's input into things. I can hardly claim this as mine, all I'm doing is rewriting/updating/changing an existing set.

One variant-inclusion of my own I've considered doing is uh

[neat vessel]

For example, nice as it would be to have the LNER Garratt, I don't think it's functionally different enough from the LMS one to be really worth it

Personally speaking

[snow carbon]

using the Edwardian sprite to represent a GWR 3700

[snow carbon]

thanks to Will's sprite, you'll get both, actually, just as different livery options

[neat vessel]

See thats an excellent way to do it 🙂

[snow carbon]

Let me explain for a moment what is easiest for me and hardest for me to include, with how I'll be doing things:

[neat vessel]

Okeedokes

[snow carbon]

From easiest to hardest (hardest is still easy, just more manual effort)

• Sprite Variants, without stat differences
• Whole new vehicles, provided I have a source for stats
• Vehicle variants with different stats
• Whole new vehicles, but no good source for stats

[neat vessel]

This is why I asked in main chat how variable variants can or should be, as, while in real life the 74 was a variant of the 71, ish, more of a bodysnatch, ingame that might be confusing, as its changing what type of rail it can run on, albeit making it more flexible rather than less. So, should it be a different engine ingame rather than a variant? Then you have things like the LMS and LNER Garratts, entirely different engines, different wheel arrangements etc, but, best represented as visual swaps of the same engine type. So, variants work great there.

And, I think from a game design perspective, we should decide on consistence as to what variants should be in this set

(not right this second but, you know)

[vocal kettle]

I did some sprites for the top one in my set if you'd like those

[snow carbon]

I came up with this, I think this is pretty solid

[neat vessel]

Looks good

So, the 71 3rd Rail Electric and the 74 Electro Diesel would be separate vehicles. That's good

[snow carbon]

Yeah

I think one way to describe Variants would be like

If all Variants can have one parent with which they share an expiry date, they can be a variant

[twilit geyser]

What's the difference between liveries and paintjobs?

[snow carbon]

all DBSOs share an invisible DBSO parent, and would all expire together (DBSOs falling out of use)
all MU length variants share the MU itself as parent, and would all expire together with that one MU
the Class 71 and 74 don't share a parent. Sure, the 74 is based off of the 71, but the 71 doesn't have a parent

[twilit geyser]

Remind me what DBSO stands for?

[snow carbon]

if the way a pattern is painted is different, it's a livery. If the pattern is the same, but different colours are used, it's a paintjob

[snow carbon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_Brake_Standard_Open

[twilit geyser]

Ah... So a passenger-carrying DVT.

[snow carbon]

explaining it with an image

Top and Mid share the same livery, but a different paintjob. Bottom is a different livery to both Top and Mid

[twilit geyser]

Ah, right. That makes sense.

[snow carbon]

aw I can't pin this

but here it is again, visualized

[tawny oar]

Question, were the LNER J70's the only tram engines the UK used?

im thinking about trying to mate the 0-6-0 tram engine's side plates to the jinty

kinda like what the fat controller thought of doing to thomas before getting toby

as an example for the game

[twilit geyser]

Good question... I don't actually know... There was a class of tram that immediately preceeded the J70s... I think they were called the Y36 or something...

[neat vessel]

There were 0-4-0 Y6s,

[snow carbon]

yeah was about to mention those

[neat vessel]

There were also those modified Class 04s I think they were, the direct replacements for the J70s

[tawny oar]

well i already made the tram jinty

[neat vessel]

Oh and Y10s too

Which were both Sentinels, and Trams

[twilit geyser]

Why does the 390 Pendolino appear in a diesel depot's menu?

Also, maybe a Toad brakevan could be an idea?

[snow carbon]

toad breakvan has been made and will be included

[snow carbon]

minor coding mistake, will be fixed

[tawny oar]

made it

here it is

[neat vessel]

A little rough round the edges at parts but, LNWR Claughton

Probably suitable as a variant of the King Arthur, although a slightly earlier introduction date (1914 vs 1918 for the King Arthur)

[snow carbon]

So, question

Should I touch intro years and stats for standard UKRS2 stuff

and if so, should I make only minor tweaks, or go as far as to completely revamp stats if I can find better ones

[tawny oar]

id say leave them

[twilit geyser]

Leave them unless you can prove they are wildly incorrect, which I highly doubt they are.

[snow carbon]

there's one locomotive in particular that brings this up

wait, nvm, misread

regardless, I'll keep in mind to keep an eye on anything particularly wrong

[neat vessel]

Only thing I would ask for is that liveries be date independent (with an option to have them autochange like UKRS real livery settings, perhaps eventually). Its rare I ever manage to get Silver Link A4s or the Prototype Deltic or HST for example

(those liveries only appear when you accept them on a trial period, presumably as they have a very short early window of usage. Realistic, but irritating with the way introduction dates are randomised. If it could be "this livery applies for the first n vehicles built" that would be different, but as it is, if you get them too late, no lovely special liveries for you)

There are a few early diesels that are a tad late in their introduction dates but this expanded set has enough prototypes and such to fill that need anyway so, its not an issue

[tawny oar]

silver link A4s?

[twilit geyser]

I think the first 4 LNER A4s were painted in the Silver Jubilee livery...

[tawny oar]

thats correct

but what besides a paint job makes them different to regular A4's?

at-least in UKRS2 scale graphics?

[twilit geyser]

The paintjob...

[neat vessel]

Well, nothing, but, I like to run things historical as much as I can, and you can only purchase them with that paint scheme for a very limited time

[tawny oar]

OHH RIGHT, you use the liveries

[neat vessel]

Alters the scheme of their articulated carriages too

[tawny oar]

i have it hard welded to 2cc

[neat vessel]

Yes I'm one of those anoraks 😄

[tawny oar]

IK the silvers had the front coupling hook indented compared to other A4's

but i doubt that would adapt to the grf

[neat vessel]

Having liveries as variants would be super handy, but having them change automatically would also be useful when I have 5000+ trains running etc. Essentially a "UKRS2 Real Liveries but with an optional overide"

That would be my ideal

[tawny oar]

except for the pullmans, i'll be sticking to 2cc

pullmans should be umber and cream. end of story

[neat vessel]

I figure paint everything in 2cc then worry about real liveries later

[tawny oar]

i did umber and cream before 2CC, and that was only because fairy asked me to do 2cc

otherwise i would have left them in umber and cream

[neat vessel]

Timberwolf and Andy show you can even make close approximations of real liveries with company colours if the sprites are drawn right

Also, apologies for the wall of text before I start, I can get verbose, but, a question?

I know we're basically been doing this as a "do what you fancy and we'll slot it in" kind of laisse faire system, and that's lovely. You have, Fairy, indicated a desire to avoid needless "fluff", and it seems we're in agreeance. I know the Claughton is getting a bit close to that, it's just an engine i've longed to see in OpenTTD (I think timberwolfs set has one but prior to that i'd never seen a sniff of one about, the same reason I originally kitbashes the Royal Scot for UKRS2 in the first place, that and the need of an LMS Express loco before the Coronation. Early LMS and the LNWR are kind of my thing).

Sooo, what I am wondering is if before I embark on any more drawing efforts, do you have a basic idea of what you'd like to see drawn that is not yet currently? Some things I can take a stab at. I know you mentioned the Standard 2 Tank, Class 10100 and the Blue Pullman (I think Will was onto that one). Did you have any longer term plans hatching?

[tawny oar]

nope im not touching the blue pullman

i did the brighton belle, thats it for pullman multiple units

[neat vessel]

Ah, okay hence my confusion, sorry about that

[tawny oar]

i dont like the blue pullmans, never have

pullman trains (except for the brighton belle) should be loco hauled, with a glamourous steam engine at the head of the train

[twilit geyser]

I think I asked a similar question but from a different perspective earlier...

[snow carbon]

This is the entire reasoning behind why I started this set

It was born from my desire to be able to use any livery anytime

So you will of course be able to do just this

[neat vessel]

Excellent 🙂

[twilit geyser]

They have their charm, but they were an absolute pain to maintain, hence they didn't last particularly long. But they were revolutionary.

Actually, I wonder if it would be possible to make the Intercity 250 / Class 93 a thing in this set?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_93_(InterCity_250)

[tawny oar]

looks like a eurostar

[neat vessel]

Like the APT and the Eurostar had a liaison they were not proud of

and somehow, both APTs

ugh, early 90s design

[tawny oar]

i much prefer the 60's and earlier design styles

[snow carbon]

As for what sprites I'm currently looking for, you're pretty spot on, though its not the Standard 2 tank I'm looking for, but the tender variant, as sort of a late non-express tender engine, so to speak.

Beyond that and what you've mentioned before, I have no solid ideas at the moment. I'm working on an organized roster of role/year, so perhaps once that's done (will have simple thing done tomorrow) you'll be able to see "okay we should have this kind of loco for this period, how about X?" Beyond that, I'm happy that add stuff that's at least visually distinct enough from other things to where you can't really have something else fill it's role.

Though, one thing to note, is that if you're going to submit a vehicle, I'd like to be able to find stats on them, since I'm horrible at balancing things. If someone knows a better source on weight, speed and tractive effort than Wikipedia, please do share.

I'll also see if I can find stuff in think would be good to have tomorrow, it's rather late for me so I'm not gonna be looking things up tonight

[twilit geyser]

I mean, you might be able to dig up the old BR blueprints from the 1990s for the stats, but since this never actually made it into reality, they're going to be pretty hard to find...

[snow carbon]

I'm getting pretty close to having things up and ready for a first release, Andy's been a great help in getting sprite palette stuff to work in bulk, so it's just a matter of updating some things, running some things, and tweaking some things, before I can release a 2CC version and start the tedious job of including real life liveries

[twilit geyser]

Can I ask who Andy is?

[snow carbon]

Speaking of which, if anyone submits real life liveries, don't worry about sticking to the palette since I can do those in 32bpp

[snow carbon]

Andythenorth. Made FIRS, Iron Horse, etc

[burnt valve]

Yes

Realistic carriage capacities when

[neat vessel]

Ah okay Standard 2 2-6-0 then. Righto. Would you like stats for the Claughton or is it okay implemented as a variant for the King Arthur?

[tawny oar]

they already are fairly realistic

[burnt valve]

They seem like 2/3 of what they should be

[tawny oar]

shrugs

well fairy has already stated the capacity will be a parameter option

[burnt valve]

That’s good

I just hope klutz remembers to enable real capacity then xd

[tawny oar]

#add-on-development message
here's what fairy has so far if you need/want something to work off of

(the image with the tender slightly updated)

hmm

@snow carbon opinion

do you thing the Q1 (austerity)'s cab

could be used for the standard 2?

alternatively, as its a BR standard, the cab from the britannia/9f could be a potential one

[snow carbon]

Maybe? I'm no good with spriting :p

[snow carbon]

Also as for other loco's to include, maybe an NER Class X/GCR Class 8H as heavy cargo tank engine could be neat

[snow carbon]

If anyone wants to make some fictional articulated trains (for inclusion in an add-on set or a different set entirely, I've got some ideas)

• Modifying the EE1 to have a longer nose
• Modifying one of the electric locos to be articulated, kinda like what Andy did here: <#openttd message>
• Giving a diesel loco (Maybe the Class 24 or the D16/2) a similar treatment

[snow carbon]

Also looking for Company Colour versions of the following

• 0-6-0 Freight
• 0-8-0 Mineral
• 0-10-0 Banker
  RUKTS has a CC Austerity, iirc, so I'll probably borrow theirs for that

[vocal kettle]

Yeah feel free

to any of our sprites

[snow carbon]

👍

[snow carbon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16vMzKuZGtlvkoHnnCJABeYOq5GVq1jD0U33m8C78EzI/edit?usp=sharing

Made an excel sheet of vehicles I have added or will add, vehicles I want to add but need sprites for (bold in black), and vehicles that need some sprite changing (italics)

[tawny oar]

andy's sprites are out of scale with UKRS2

it would need shortening by a pixel

[snow carbon]

It's intended as inspiration, not like, straight-up copying. The scale's entirely wrong anyway

[tawny oar]

gotcha

which electric would be the ideal first choice for articulation?

[snow carbon]

check the link, I've got 4 ideas at the bottom of it

[tawny oar]

cool

do you have the new 5at sprites i made?

[snow carbon]

Yep

[tawny oar]

excellent

[snow carbon]

I've used it to replace the old 5AT sprite, which is now a livery variant for the 604, which used to just be a Coronation

[tawny oar]

you wanted an 0-6-0 saddle tank?

[tawny oar]

in that case mind if i go over both of the 604's to give them a touch up?

things like putting merchant navy wheels on them and the gt-3's cabsides

they might seem minor but they can have a huge difference in modernisign the design

[snow carbon]

yeah, but I want a real-life equivalent in that year to name it after and base stats on