JP+ Group Development Zone

[shrewd wren]

Nah, just the corner sprite made as a diagonal piece
I thought of making expressways like this, just because it looks cool

[neon light]

it does look cool

[arctic cargo]

yep

[digital river]

wangan midnight on openttd when

[gusty stirrup]

You from the Vancouver area by any chance?

[nova bay]

He is

[neon light]

didnt know aberdeen had skytrain

[tidal perch]

I'm in Vancouver now!

[tidal perch]

https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1993_Subaru_Impreza5555.jpg

[gusty stirrup]

Aberdeen is a shopping centre in Richmond, BC Canada connected to a skytrain station

[gusty stirrup]

Yeah I would always take the skytrain to Aberdeen station to meet family for dinners or kbbq

Lots of good restaurants there

[wild geode]

https://tenor.com/view/wangan-midnight-gif-10865351

A certain Devil Z wants a word

[tidal perch]

Me go to espot 😛

[digital river]

https://tenor.com/view/wangan-midnight-devil-z-bridge-shuto-gif-25836754

[tidal perch]

z370

[tidal perch]

@amber totem any ideas?

[amber totem]

Not seen that author before. They've uploaded the addons while linking to your grf, so all other people's stuff

[crude phoenix]

It doesn't seem like @rotund glen uploaded it, so it's against Bananas terms of service

[tidal perch]

overpass wip

[rotund glen]

Hi, sorry it's taken me a while to answer, I was asleep. As I said in the JP+ discord, it wasn't me who uploaded that

[tidal perch]

hmm I think WINS station will rely on badges

if peter can add a function to fetch the badges of a nearby station tile

hmmmmmm

looks like it exists already no

I need to build it first

[tidal perch]

the old WINS grf has checks based on station IDs. Switching from station ID checks to badge ID checks will make life a LOT easier

so _station/overpass badges 😛

[royal nimbus]

Standardised badge scheme

[tidal perch]

yes

# general
regions/<iso 3166 code>
climate

# vehicles
power/<power type>
length
power

# tracks
gauge
weight
power
...

_<INTERNAL>/

[tidal perch]

shiny

[tidal perch]

this looks strange...

[wild geode]

Out of context, sure, but we need to see the rest of it

[tidal perch]

I need to change the wall texture

it just looks bad

[wild geode]

I don’t mind it, looks good.

[tidal perch]

(it's waterfront station, but I still want to include it)

[amber totem]

That looks great! Very similar style to something I'm drawing right now

But I'm trying to make mine on one tile

[tidal perch]

hmm

[amber totem]

WIP

[tidal perch]

This looks like a hotel

[tidal perch]

Still need a lot of polishing, shadows windows other details etc., plus different views

[gusty stirrup]

I look forward to seeing Waterfront!

We have Pacific Central currently in the Canadian set

[rain ingot]

What station is this based on?

[tidal perch]

^^

[rain ingot]

Ah they called a place in Cananada this

[rain ingot]

This looks really good

[gusty stirrup]

Yeah it is one of the two train stations in downtown Vancouver, the other being Pacific Central

[tidal perch]

Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal & Swartz Bay Terminal 😛

[gusty stirrup]

Would be nice to see ferry terminal buildings but what do we make them as? Objects or train station pieces?

[tidal perch]

objects certainly

[gusty stirrup]

Ok

[tidal perch]

hmm BC passenger docks object set 😛
SeaBus & BC Ferries 😛

[wild geode]

Train stations or bus stations 😛

Increase catchment, access variables such as waiting cargo, etc

Docks are usually integrated with some other transportation system anyway

[tidal perch]

just need some final touches

[gusty stirrup]

Awesome!

I look forward to building them in future games!

[tidal perch]

done

now I should finish the basic platforms

[open falcon]

That’s a wonderfully Sawyer-esque roof on the station building 😄

[gusty stirrup]

I rediscovered some drawings I made of Coast mountain buses made during quarantine

I think there was a website that allowed you to draw something and automatically make all views, however it made the vertical view look weird

[tidal perch]

checkout https://github.com/zephyris/openttd-pixeltool

[gusty stirrup]

Ah! I think it was this exact website I used

[tidal perch]

Switch to badges when? 😛

[crude phoenix]

I've planned to do badges at some point, are they fully implemented in the nightlies now?

[tidal perch]

yes

in terms of basic functions and variables

[nova bay]

Are these part of JP+ trams?

[amber totem]

Yea, they are

[gusty stirrup]

What do you mean by badges?

I see lots of company names listed

[crude phoenix]

I think badges can be either icons or additional text

[tidal perch]

they can be both

[crude phoenix]

But if I wanted to do badges as text I'd need to completely redo my modular string system I'm assuming

[tidal perch]

yeah you need to remove some of the entries

[crude phoenix]

The icons should be easier though, I've been wanting to redo those to be more consistent with the other JP+ sets

[gusty stirrup]

Text as in additional descriptive text?

[tidal perch]

yes

[gusty stirrup]

Oh ok no wonder

Would be quite the scenario to see all those companies listed import the Chinese locomotive

[tidal perch]

Lolz

[gusty stirrup]

BC ferries railway when?

[tidal perch]

CPR ferries when? 😛

[gusty stirrup]

I think they actually had a ferry network

Historically

[tidal perch]

yeah historically

then the province took over

[gusty stirrup]

The airline cp air was also affiliated with them as well as a nationwide radio and hotel network

[bleak karma]

Please keep discussions in this topic to just JP+ related discussions thanks. From next time I'll just start removing off topic messages

[tidal perch]

some pixely JR badges

[tidal perch]

company icons from the JP+ sets are flat 🤔

[peak cargo]

oooooh, I'm gonna have to steal that idea for my sets...

[crude phoenix]

The real ones are flat too. Changing them is a stylistic choice and all of the JP+ authors would have to be on board with it

[tidal perch]

btw iirc badges are a property instead of a callback, which means variable company icons as in JP+ will be impossible

[crude phoenix]

Welp, guess badges are useless then

[tidal perch]

maybe use savegame load date instead of real-time date then. IIRC the former one is used in some graphics replacements sets that has year-dependent graphics, and the year-dependent functionality only works when the player reloads the savegame...

^^ bad idea

[tidal perch]

I would need to check this first

[crude phoenix]

I'll just implement the logos as a sprite layer, that'll make it easy to turn them off in a parameter

[tidal perch]

also multiple company badges is possible

[tidal perch]

^^

[crude phoenix]

I'll need to experiment myself before I write badges off completely haha

[tidal perch]

bad news then?

[royal nimbus]

A badge can change graphics so I don't see the problem other than name maybe which could stay in extra text

[tidal perch]

That is, precombined badges?

[open falcon]

I’d suggest talking to Peter about your usecase before throwing out Badges entirely 🙂

As with all GRF features, it needs feedback from authors

[magic ridge]

These look very nintendo-esque, love them!

[open falcon]

How do variable company icons work? And why can't it be done with variants and badges?

Or are you saying JR redesigned their logo, and the badge sprite needs to change?

[royal nimbus]

I think the unit changes owner which requires changed text and sprite which could be done if a name callback is implemented but being able to change badges would be better for testing the company

[open falcon]

Shouldn't that be a different variant? So the old train stops being available, and the new one is introduced instead?

[royal nimbus]

Not if you don't use variants and do liveries based on date which is quite common

[amber totem]

0 series Shinkansen for example changes logo from JNR to JR Central & JR West

[tidal perch]

idk but maybe the badge names being searachable in the purchase list is a trouble?

[crude phoenix]

In 1949 JGR logos change to JNR, and again to JR/JRF in 1987

It doesn't make sense to have all new variants for identical locomotives because the company name changes

what I do currently is change the purchase sprite using a current_year switch

I assumed I'd be able to change the badge sprite using the same switch, but I haven't looked into it yet

[green monolith]

Yes you can

There are current date and introduction date variables

[crude phoenix]

Ah good to know thanks

[tidal perch]

it would be nice to put all badges into one GRF

[crude phoenix]

What would happen if you tried to load one of the sets without the required badge GRF?

[tidal perch]

it would just load without the badges

[crude phoenix]

And would load order matter? e.g. "JP+ badge GRF must be placed above all other JP+ sets"

[green monolith]

No

[green monolith]

The only order that matters is that the that the name and sprite used come from the last NewGRF that defines them. But the system is designed so that you can use badges without defining them.

[tidal perch]

I think I would convert them to svg in the future.
The purchase list is 12px tall, and fitting 16px badges in it would make the list too crowded

[tidal perch]

I settled down with this design... with the little windows and wall texture.
Also designed a little station building for use with the overpass.

[crude phoenix]

I really like that design

[rain ingot]

That's really nice

[wild geode]

That is fucking ace

[tidal perch]

other sides urgh...

[wild geode]

that's tasty

[tidal perch]

I wonder if there is a way to check the odd/eveness of a station tile

[tidal perch]

maybe I should change this part from walls to steel racks

[wild geode]

Bike racks or something could go on the adjacent tile

Given that wall is flush with the tile edge I wouldn’t try and squeeze too much out of it

[weary roost]

maybe a maintenance door or a storeroom or something like that

[bleak karma]

Usually the underneath of the overpass won't be solid

[wild geode]

I frequently put overpasses at the end of platforms. Not all the time, and if it didn’t look right it would probably stop me, but yeah

[sullen root]

Quick lil question, I noticed that the JP+ tracks don't get fences in the desert, is this intended behaviour, or a bug? I imagine the tracks probably weren't really conceived with desert use in mind given japan's climate :p

[mossy night]

I’m pretty sure this happens with vanilla too

[sullen root]

damn, makes sense. im used to track sets without fences

[wild geode]

Nobody gets fences in the desert

Or the snow

[mossy night]

Yeah

Snow dissolves wood, steel and concrete

It is an established fact

[crude phoenix]

And farm fields

But let's not get too off topic

[wild geode]

Jet fuel can’t melt steel beams, but snow and desert can.

Real talk, I have been thinking about poking into (previously JGR’s changes) Peter’s changes to see how hard it is to re-enable fences, etc where they normally ought not to be.

Since I normally play with Pineapple landscape that makes the desert much more mild.

[tidal perch]

I don't think it would be that hard

[finite ore]

Will JP+ Tracks get a parameter to turn off the universal eyecandy underground track, and maybe get narrow gauge third rail, at some point in the near future? I've very much been enjoying the set, but these two things are something I miss

[crude phoenix]

What trainsets have narrow gauge third rail trains?

[finite ore]

...is my alternate version of my UKRS2 Rewrite that has them be narrow gauge (because finescale) really the only set with Narrow Gauge third rail?

I know the French NG set has it but that's Metric...

[crude phoenix]

French NG set is an oddball and isn't compatible with anything anyway

[finite ore]

Yeah it's a bit of a weird set

Well if my NG UKRS is the only set that'd have NG 3rd Rail that makes sense that JP+ Tracks doesn't have it

[crude phoenix]

It's not common at all, the only other IRL railway I can think of is the Glasgow Subway, and that's an oddball gauge as well

[finite ore]

the reason why I made myself a NG variant is because imo it looks a lot nicer on smaller narrow gauge track especially when compared to sets like Iron Horse

[crude phoenix]

That would be done better as a finescale mode in the actual track set. Like what the original JapanSet Tracks did where it used the narrow guage sprites for standard gauge and even narrower sprites for narrow gauge

[shrewd wren]

Fake underground track is a key feature for JP+private mu cars, so in order to fool proof, fake track has to be always enabled

I'm considering other non Japanese track types, but I want to finish Japanese part of it first

[royal nimbus]

It is label wise but you need to force it

[finite ore]

Ah I see, alright! The main reason I asked is because I noticed it's the only tracks you can't turn off iirc so i was wondering if it was an oversight or had a reason

[hallow dune]

does it imply you will have broad gauge track? 👀

[wild geode]

Gimme the 2m gauge for the apocalypse sets big nuclear trains 😄

God I love those daft things

[shrewd wren]

Yeah I think I will have those

[shrewd wren]

A little preview for what's being prepared for the next update

[neon light]

I’ve wanted this for a bit now

[wild geode]

Hyyyyype

[raven folio]

Ooh and Green on the sides of the wide ballast

[magic ridge]

This is it, we've reached peak! Only thing left to do now are underground stations😝

[tidal perch]

Classic, 32bpp

[shrewd wren]

Something wrong with it? 🤔

[tidal perch]

Nothing 😛

[tidal perch]

😛 I just noticed that you've implemented the grass underlay. It looks awesome!

[shrewd wren]

Thanks.
Just you wait until Peter sees it 😆

[neon light]

oh i didnt even notice that

thats a lovely touch

[royal nimbus]

I wish it was possible to do it with climate independence

[timid spire]

I wish There's JP+ Aircrafts and Helicopter Set for OpenTTD which includes Japan Aircrafts and Helicopters it's will includes the Eurocopter EC135 Helicopters too!

[tidal perch]

well

[crude phoenix]

We have no plans for an aircraft set currently 🙂

[neon light]

Will there be a bus/road vehicle set

[crude phoenix]

There are plans for it but no progress lately

[digital river]

that would belong to other aircraft sets

making a japan-specific aircraft set would be too niche and not even work

you can't do that when many of these aircraft aren't just japanese-exclusive

well except for the short-range 747 variants

[crude phoenix]

Would rather do more liveries for WAS than make a dedicated set

maybe get them to add the YS-11

[lucid belfry]

Can I ask if there is any plans to create more limited express rollingstock eg odakyu romancecar?

[shrewd wren]

There are plans, but not much time sadly

[neon light]

more kansai region stuff would be cool

nankai, kintetsu, etc

[lucid belfry]

Agreed!

Kintetsu trains are the coolest

[neon light]

semboku as well

[crude phoenix]

A lot of Kintetsu stuff is in NATS, but that might get redrawn eventually

[tidal perch]

@shrewd wren there seem to be a 1px offset between the fence and the tile's edge. Mind if you fix it?

The symmetric fences seem okay

automatic fences 😛

[shrewd wren]

Sure

[tidal perch]

this sprite is also misaligned

[tidal perch]

try it out 😛

[shrewd wren]

It's perfect

I think you can also select fence style automatically by querying track_type

[tidal perch]

it follows JP+ Tracks's parameters 🙂

[shrewd wren]

Oh wait yes it's written in the description, superb!

It's only these slab tracks that are not supposed to have grass underlay 🥲

[tidal perch]

I can add a check for that too

so, urgh, what are the labels for slab tracks...

[shrewd wren]

xCxx and xBxx for metro, linear and SHAA for shinkansen

It'd be easier to check the code i think lol

[peak zinc]

I know that streetcar set has barly started...

But as last year the last trolleybus line in Japan closed 🫡

How about an trolleybus set?
(But this likely would have been either an part or an addon for motor bus set, not an seprate mod)

[crude phoenix]

We'll keep it in mind in case work ever resumes on the bus set

[peak zinc]

great!

suprisingly some used japanese trolleybusses ended up in... Mexico City!

(were given for free arount 1995)

And later were never used....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Ex-Japanese_trolleybus_marked_for_the_Trolebuses_Educativos_program_in_Mexico_City_(2011).jpg

[crude phoenix]

I can see why, the doors would've been on the wrong side

[peak zinc]

although it apears that at least one was accually converted to doors on the right and steeringwheel on the left...

and speaking about that

[crude phoenix]

Well it wouldn't be added anyway, just like the Indonesia exported trains won't be in JP+ MU

[peak zinc]

I have read abut ex-japanese busses being used without any conversion like that in the CIS...

God...

Dropping passengers off into the traffic?!

[crude phoenix]

maybe a separate set one day

[peak zinc]

and if You are interested in such nonsense...

At least one Tatra T3 streetcar (ex-czech) went to Japan, but was not converted for left side traffic and was never used...

[crude phoenix]

No more off topic discussion please

[peak zinc]

OK I do understand

[upper arrow]

Australia got nearly 100 ex-Tsukuba Expo Fuji-Volvo B10M artics. Near new at the time too.

[peak zinc]

I really wonder why thay got rid of almost brand new vehicles...

[crude phoenix]

Australian build Volgren buses are operating in Japan too

[neon light]

cool tpf2 development

[tidal perch]

@shrewd wren could you again make the mesh fence template shift 1px to the top again plz? Symmetric fences and asymmetric fences are misaligned by 1px

[shrewd wren]

Ah ok

[buoyant swan]

damn these are looking good

[tidal perch]

added barriers

[tidal perch]

@shrewd wren I'm sorry to bother you again, but again the fence sprites are misaligned by 1px

• asym fence with grass underlay: grass underlay is okay, fence is misaligned by 1px, should be 1px lower
• asym fence without grass underlay: should be 1px lower
• sym fences are fine

[shrewd wren]

Lowering it down will result in misalign just like here

Or actually I was comparing with stations, that's right I should lower the fence down

Am a bit funny with whiskey rn, but hopefully everything is aligned now as it should be

[tidal perch]

lolz

[tidal perch]

aligned perfectly now 🙂

[wild geode]

Might want to also compare to the jp+ bridges, the original offsets template I sent you were aligned perfectly with jp+ if you ended up using those.

[shrewd wren]

Seems solid

[tidal perch]

yards!

and this lolz

try it out 😛

[tidal perch]

yards and other features that requires querying another tile's information will definitely be migrated to badges instead of ids in the future.

after https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/13661

So after 15

[shrewd wren]

Now do the train querying for yards 😛

[tidal perch]

Yards with trains 😛

[shrewd wren]

It's amazing, wanna change all my yards to these

[wild geode]

bang on

[wild geode]

this will be super handy for building sets

[buoyant swan]

Augh any yard tile like this makes me yearn for two tracks on one tile

Looks great though

[peak zinc]

if 2 tracks/tile are possible, maybe 3 are possible too?

Well, we are talking about narrowgauge...

[tidal perch]

imo not a good idea

[tidal perch]

graphics finished now 🙂

just copy and pasting 😄

[raven folio]

Looks good but kinda off that only each second track on electrified rail has a wire

Maybe you can add some kind of overhead wire beam over it?

[tidal perch]

No, at least not at this stage.
Station tiles cannot access their own global coordinate.

[raven folio]

But you can look for adjacent siding tiles

[tidal perch]

Afaik there isn't a way for station tiles to access their own global coordinates, which also controls catenary and pylon placement for tracks. Without access to the coordinates there is no way to make a custom overhead wire system without breaking visual compatibility at the start and end of the station.

Surprisingly it's actually easier to automatically change the style based on the track type - it is already doable, just cache the parameters from JP+ Tracks and load them based on the track type

Well, I guess I could just use custom pylons in yards, but that doesn't fix the wire problem

[raven folio]

can you acces the wire sprite of the track type of the station?

[tidal perch]

It's impossible to access at runtime and copy the sprites. I need to encode it in the grf then display it based on JP+ Tracks's parameters

[raven folio]

oh ok, thats bad

[tidal perch]

actually I thought of this again earlier today. Turns out that I can totally use platform numbers to implement catenary and pylons.
I am already working on the pylons now. Only problem here is that the pylon thingy from JP+ Tracks is... too complicated. But I can fix that.

so no need for station tile coordinates, though if such things exist it would make life a lot easier

dang... I think I need some help on pylon graphics

||(i.e. I am too lazy to complete the graphics individually)||

[tidal perch]

https://github.com/WenSimEHRP/jppluswins/issues/4

[shrewd wren]

If I drew proper multi track pylons, would you use it?

Like these

[crude phoenix]

These would be cool to have in stations as well, like in Auz stations

[tidal perch]

absolutely

[raven folio]

I can have a look at drawing these later today

[shrewd wren]

These should be also probably cut, so not a single sprite for whole pylon, but 3 for sides and middle with wire hanger

[tidal perch]

also, do you plan to draw different graphics for different railtypes?

[shrewd wren]

2 types for now, old and modern

Old like these, and modern like I sent earlier

[tidal perch]

hmm

I wrote very complicated switches to try to match the pylon settings you specified in JP+ Tracks

that includes reading parameters and storing them in registers and all the yadda yaddas

[shrewd wren]

Shock

[tidal perch]

good news (or bad news) is that they are not working properly 😄

so I plan to remove that part completely

[shrewd wren]

Multi track pylons should be standalone, so no complications here

[tidal perch]

sure

[tidal perch]

now only needing the pylons 😛

[magic ridge]

This is so rad, would it be possible to make my own version of this adding my own
trains on the sidings if I credit correctly?

[mossy night]

||S Tog||

[magic ridge]

That was exactly what I had in mind xd

[shrewd wren]

@tidal perch could you help me on why it does not work?
Version for tracks is 400

[shrewd wren]

Only in photoshop for now

Original sprite, will edit when there'll be issues in coding this into

[neon light]

It’s a shame we can’t have gantries like that on regular lines

[tidal perch]

Hmm, never encountered before

Oh I get it now

I had WINS to check specifically for 040 but not 400

I'll fix that later

[shrewd wren]

coolio

[crude phoenix]

We could have something like Qatenary for JP+

[shrewd wren]

Now that I got the reason to draw these I could make a built in waypoint with this

[tidal perch]

It's GPL v2, so as long as you follow the licence 😆

[magic ridge]

I'll make sure to read that, thanks!💪

[neon light]

This sounds good

Eyecandy 📈

[tidal perch]

@shrewd wren I've fixed the versioning problem. Could you try https://github.com/WenSimEHRP/jppluswins/actions/runs/13794052045/artifacts/2731767367 and see if it works?

[shrewd wren]

Works now, good stuff
Waiting for pylons now 😛

[shrewd wren]

Both done. Fixed a few pixels on the old one too

[tidal perch]

Try it out 😄
https://github.com/WenSimEHRP/jppluswins/releases/download/0.2.6/wins.grf

[tidal perch]

(or get it on bananas)

[shrewd wren]

Superb, absolutely love it.
The only thing is that it'd be nice if pylons shared the concrete pole

[tidal perch]

eek, the concrete poles are not a part of the station. I cannot remove them without adding empty station tiles

[tidal perch]

Plus there is this tileindex problem

[shrewd wren]

I mean here
Shouldn't it be just a sprite/template task?

[tidal perch]

Oh yeah I misinterpreted the question. I thought you meant the pylons circled in blue

[tidal perch]

Yeah totally fixable. Just a simple sprite task

[shrewd wren]

Great!
Also a small issue, catenary is hanged on these

Others are for tension wire

[tidal perch]

hmm. Can you swap the longer and shorter wire hooks (idk the name for them, connectors?)? The configuration illustrated in that image looks okay already.
Also, can there be unoccupied wire hooks?

[shrewd wren]

I drew this with a yard station in mind, so I kept a free space near the bottom right for extra track
Also I meant that catenary should hang on those red connectors

It's mostly only template work here

[shrewd wren]

This kind of alignment is what I mean

[tidal perch]

I'll just adjust the sprites afterwards then

[tidal perch]

@shrewd wren fixed 🙂

(partially)

[wild geode]

I need to change over to doing my marshalling yards like that. Very aesthetically pleasing.

[finite ore]

That little locomotive trapped at the top of the marshalling yard. What did it do to deserve being locked up

[wild geode]

gay baby jail

[finite ore]

D:

[tidal perch]

😨

[buoyant swan]

That's one of zeros "dispatch" switchers probably

They're SD'd and they trip a counter that releases trains from being held at a signal

[rancid garden]

He loose-shunted the oil tankers.

[tidal perch]

Hmm, I have an idea
Signals as pylons

[peak zinc]

I don't know if this would interest You, but maybe it would be an inspiration?

I found full train list from japanese version of A-train 8

https://rx-78-2wolf514.muragon.com/entry/233.html

[tidal perch]

Heh, Artdink completely removed branded trains in A-Tourism...

[peak zinc]

I don't think it was an bad decision

the number of generic trains was high enough

and modders...

[tidal perch]

Well they kept the Shinkansen

[tidal perch]

Nope no mods so far in A-Tourism 😄
Only liveries and scenarios. The former is unaccessible without a DLC that is only available in Japan

[peak zinc]

I am talking about the liveries

[peak zinc]

but (at least in the export version) it is not buy-able

[tidal perch]

The what version?

[peak zinc]

A-tourism steam version

in A-train 8 and 9 after You construct bullet train line You can buy bullet trains for normal lines

[tidal perch]

? I don't think there is a difference in terms of Shinkansens between the NS version and Steam version

If you meant by A-Tourism

Oof, Shinkansens work differently in Tourism.

[wild geode]

wennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

@tidal perch 😭

[wild geode]

D:

[shrewd wren]

Wait it's due to tracks version now

[wild geode]

yeah I grabbed your latest off github yozora

[shrewd wren]

Try this one that I've uploaded now

[wild geode]

ooh

Daijoubu

That works

@tidal perch yard with the fake tracks without pylons plz, everything else is incredibly good and nice thankyou.

god these look so good

imagine, we could achieve world peace if we could build rails this dence in openttd normally.

dence? dense.

[rain ingot]

Dence

This would be amazing

[green monolith]

What goes wrong if you use WINS Stations with an earlier version of JP+ Tracks?

[finite ore]

Does the fake track go on the tile line between tiles or does it manage to narrowly fit two tracks in one tile?

[crude phoenix]

It has to be on the line between the tiles or it wouldn't bee evenly spaced

[wild geode]

Yup

[wild geode]

Disables itself

God I wish we could divide a tile up and have two tracks parallel like roads.

[finite ore]

Divide a tile into four

[wild geode]

Sub-tiles

[green monolith]

I know it disables itself, the question was more "why does it disable itself, what could be so bad..."

[finite ore]

How insane would "Dividing Tiles" be as a thing to implement

[shrewd wren]

The only reason I can see is that the params id's have changed, and stations sort of rely on them

[wild geode]

It does a lot of deep hooks into jp+ tracks. the sorta stuff you probably don't want to know about.

possibly some BADFEATURES,

quite probably some absolutely haram (ab)uses of the grf spec

@tidal perch also it breaks pretty badly if you select grey catenary wire in jp+ tracks, I'm guessing it's some sort of offset error as you're using grey wires when black wires are set in jp+ tracks, so setting grey wires in jp+ tracks throws your sprite number offsets straight into the rubbish.

[tidal perch]

Params

[tidal perch]

I'll check later today

[tidal perch]

it works fine on my end

can you send me your GRF list?

[tidal perch]

0.2.12 has yards without pylons

download it from github, can't upload anything to bananas now
https://github.com/WenSimEHRP/jppluswins/releases/latest

[wild geode]

Key bit might be that I'm using the jp+ tracks Yozora uploaded last night, but anyway:

(2nd one catenary set back to 'modern black')

Using U&rermm mini to set the monorail and maglev sprites, issue still happens without it though

Also happens with the .grf list emptied and just JP+ tracks and wins

ahah, found it, it seems to be tied to chronological pylon change in jp+ tracks, as soon as you hit 1910 the problem goes away.

All the other year transitions (1910, 1960) are fine, it's just the pre-1910 pylons that break

[tidal perch]

What is your in-game date?
Ah I see what's the problem

[wild geode]

👍

Yeah sorry for the spam, I was thinking in words while i was testing it.

[tidal perch]

@wild geode fixed. I wrote the wrong index

hmm should draw new pylon sprites for pre 1900 wires

[wild geode]

Some crusty looking wooden ones would be fun

[tidal perch]

this

[crude phoenix]

Oh that tricked my eyes for a moment, I thought it was a sloped track

Great idea for a waypoint though

[crude phoenix]

We also need a good marker for the transition between AC and DC track

[open falcon]

Catenary tensioner waypoints are genius. I don’t know how Japan does it, but you also have phase breaks (usually near a tensioner) which could be cool detail as well.

[wild geode]

we need the original TTD fence logic back as well, will make the grass fences work better

[crude phoenix]

Oh yeah I miss that

[wild geode]

I just got TTDPatch working on my machine specifically to get that screenshot lmao

Now that we have pixel perfect fences in so many sets

we really need this original logic back.

[crude phoenix]

maybe we can convince JGR to add a toggle?

[wild geode]

If someone can point me at where it happens in the sauce I can do it myself, I'll just need to find when in time the logic got changed if it's not clear in the source.

[crude phoenix]

I'll have a poke around

[wild geode]

Yeah I've asked in openttd-development, if they can point me at it I'll write a patch and send it to JGR

Yeah I can poke around this weekend but I generally find the brains trust just know that shit off the top of their head most of the time lol

[mossy night]

what changed?

[tidal perch]

Fences at the switch

[wild geode]

Yeah, hard to describe, build it in OpenTTD and see for yourself

It squares off on the diagonal rails straight tile edge

Which looks like ass with the fake grass fences

[mossy night]

ooo

[wild geode]

Nice glx has given me something to go on so I’ll look at that tonight and over the weekend

[tidal perch]

@crude phoenix I found a way to display stations on bridges

[crude phoenix]

Interesting, are the platforms part of the catenary pole or something else?

[tidal perch]

no... they are regular stations

[crude phoenix]

Ah, so overlapping tiles? aren't they glitchy?

[tidal perch]

they are, but I can force refreshing by making them animated tiles

[wild geode]

Oh that’s cheeky

[tidal perch]

just like this thing ->

[wild geode]

I wonder if you can use that trick for taller than 255(ish) buildings

[tidal perch]

I don't think so

[wild geode]

Oh well, one can dream

[tidal perch]

this is basically the limit

hmm, they are only useable for four tile bridges

won't work as well for longer bridges

[wild geode]

Still, that’s very useful

[tidal perch]

actually, no

four tile bridge stations glitch when a train passes

[peak zinc]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmX4YABqf5nCgVdVA9vSbAl2aJ2pCMLl9y7w&s

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpqTYD9RlAVl2V1_jvCpKUEn_EwMfMgbWpkMYCIY3Kj8HEOVX_gEXDMJXs3VCd5U13VPs&usqp=CAU

hmmmmm what are these 2 MUs?

[crude phoenix]

This was a concept for a cargo Shinkansen. I wasn't aware of any other images of it, so that's an interesting find

[peak zinc]

yes, I also have came across this image for the first time

But the 2nd image (book cover?) also seems interesting.

Especially the 2nd MU (or maybe it is an single motor car?)

by the way the containers...thay seem to look vougly similer to Pa-containers

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/HUA-163598-Afbeelding_van_het_overladen_van_een_laadkist_van_de_N.S._van_vrachtauto_naar_goederenwagen_(vermoedelijk_op_de_laad-_en_losplaats_te_Ede-Wageningen).jpg/1280px-thumbnail.jpg

[crude phoenix]

I think this was a prototype for a tilting EMU but I can't remember what it's called

not sure about the bottom one at all

[peak zinc]

https://www.ttkatalog.cz/katalog/foto/03.06.07/00000121.jpg?dpr=1&auto=format&fit=crop&w=3000&q=80&cs=tinysrgb

[peak zinc]

the first one looks like an 485 but on jacobs bogeys...

Look at the middle coach - it is short!

[crude phoenix]

There was a similar diesel one https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/KiHa_391_series

they did the Stadler thing before it was cool

[peak zinc]

God, this looks soooo crused...

the front end

and the concept of separate machine room car in an MU is much older

I recall some very old (evan prewar!) NG MUs that had an separatem machineroom car

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/narrow_gauge/3000/osekalavryta_dk153505.jpg

[crude phoenix]

There's this thing I saw in a video but I couldn't find any more info on it

[crude phoenix]

Ah, found it https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/591_series

[neon light]

Don’t see why you couldn’t add it

[crude phoenix]

Of course we'd add it, it just has to be drawn first 😛

[neon light]

Are the EF67s and their variants done?

[crude phoenix]

Yes, they're variants of the EF60 and EF65 which they were derived from

Been thinking about changing them to be separate engines along with a few others

[neon light]

ah cool

[tidal perch]

found a way to stabilize the graphics

[peak cargo]

it's a VR 280hp Walker Railmotor

unless the Japanese nicked one, they only ever saw service here in Australia

[tidal perch]

This method however requires an extra station tile to be placed below the bridge, hence it is not compatible with vanilla OpenTTD.
Yet it would make stations on bridges much easier. It's more of a hack, but it works 😛

[crude phoenix]

oh wow, I never expected to be Australian, it looks so Japanese somehow

[peak cargo]

I can't see it, although tbf I already know about the walkers

and I've only ever known them as Australian trains

[crude phoenix]

It resembles these prewar express KiHas

which are basically a 52 without a panto so they'll be easy to adapt

[peak cargo]

I can kinda see it

like if both those and a walker were on the same railway no one would bat an eye

[wild geode]

well that is the primary use case for most people anyway, is stacked stations in JGRPP

[tidal perch]

git diff abuabah.. -- src/lang/english.lng 😛

[tidal perch]

I should write a GitHub workflow to keep in track of the strings and automatically ping the translators, maybe via an issue

[neon light]

Was the e5 sprite just modified for this?

[amber totem]

All sprites are essentially modifications of other Shinkansen sprites

So everything is essentially a variant / livery of the 0 Series, which was done first

[peak zinc]

POV: The 0 series is the modst beautifull shinkansen ever

[shrewd wren]

500 series is the best

[amber totem]

500 did liveries differently. Others have colours based on the colour of a duck, or a tree in whatever prefecture

500 is like, here’s Hello Kitty

[peak zinc]

possible only in japan...

the 700 (not sure which subtype) looked sweet in the 200 series lookalike livery

[crude phoenix]

I think you mean the E2 series

[peak zinc]

yes

[nova bay]

I like E2 colours

700/N700 is something "too similar to what I see every day" back in China

http://www.trainnets.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/rickster-230902.jpg
Off topic, but this image could troll a person. This livery is very much like E2 but no, it is even not powered by electricity.

[tidal perch]

eek, spider man

[neon light]

the chinese x2000

[nova bay]

I mean the right one

[shrewd wren]

E5 has the Hatsune Miku old traditional Japanese colouring

I like when even in such small details a part of nation's history is preserved

[peak zinc]

DJ2?

[restive meteor]

I have a question. For the early private commuter EMUs which say "real formation 1 car/2 car" does that mean they really only used 1 or 2 car long trains in the early days? I'm confused because nowadays they use much longer consists

[peak zinc]

i bet that that's only motor cars,
after tham trailers, but without MU controls, so the motor car would have to run around the train like an loco

also some private railways started as streetcars and later got converted to individual right of way and heavy equiptment

[shrewd wren]

They actually did use 1 or 2 car long trains back then. It used to look more like dedicated trams than modern railways

[peak zinc]

If I am correct densha translates into electric train or streetcar depanting on the context

while ressha translates into train in general

dentetsuo means electric railraod

[restive meteor]

That is what I guessed.

But you can use them in longer consists, correct?

Does it cause issues?

[peak zinc]

ingame likely you can use tham in longer consists.

[restive meteor]

I did it, and there don't seem to be issues with power/TE

Well technically it was a JGR EMU not a private one

[peak zinc]

if all cars in the set are motor cars

You would never run into such issues

Some japanese ltd. express MUs accually had an configuration like this

[shrewd wren]

It doesn't, I've made no limits for consists

[tidal perch]

fixed fences on slopes

[rancid garden]

This looks so satisfying!!!

[tidal perch]

time to implement some actual platforms 🙂

[shrewd wren]

Aren't 9 tracks for pylons a bit too much haha?

I think 6 is the longest Japan use. With 4 being even more regular

[tidal perch]

oooo

Actually you reminded me that I haven't added support for even number of tracks yet

And I don't need to. 🙂 Just use the eyecandy tracks to trick the stations.

[tidal perch]

WINS Stations 0.2.14 released

• added tensioners

Get it on 🍌

[tidal perch]

@amber totem Just curious, what station graphics do you have right now? I plan to add some actual platforms now, but I don't really like the platform sprites I drew earlier.

[tidal perch]

something distracted me 😛

fake bridges in WINS

[haughty monolith]

More fake bridges yes thanks

Also ones over creeks

[late snow]

cant stop winning

[crisp stone]

Good, need more that aren’t objects 😄

[magic ridge]

Snow aware fake bridges and life is complete

[haughty monolith]

just too many tiles not snow aware just yet

[tidal perch]

snow-awareness is not hard to add

[tidal perch]

I'm worried

nmlc info: Concurrent Action2 registers: 115/127 (None)

well, the most complicated station for now is the yard... which contains fences, underlays, barriers (4 of them on one tile), catenary wires, pylons, and the track underlay

each building consumes 7 registers on average

arrrrrugh optimization

nmlc info: Concurrent spritegroups: 56/256 ("src/fences.pnml", line 77)
nmlc info: Concurrent Action2 registers: 127/127 (None)
nmlc info: Concurrent ActionD registers: 10/64 ("src/fences.pnml", line 95)
nmlc info: GRF parameter registers: 2/64
nmlc info: Railtype translation table: 66/256

Okay

 nmlc ERROR: There are not enough registers available to perform all required computations in switch blocks. Please reduce the complexity of your code.
error: Recipe `build` failed on line 8 with exit code 1

there we go

so cut-downs - no underlay for this dude

[amber totem]

I haven’t really done any station sprites, other than the tram stuff

[peak zinc]

great idea, exquisite execution!

[neon light]

could this be done in a way where electrification just ends, without the need for waypoints, or would you want more freedom than that

[tidal perch]

There isn't a way to detect whether a nearby tile is electrified or not anyways

[finite ore]

I think they mean having it be automatic, which wouldn't be possible, I think yeah

[tidal perch]

such variable doesn't exist

Plus this could be end of catenary or catenary wire tensioner, so yeah

[neon light]

ah ok

[tidal perch]

Will be away for two months preparing for test. If any of you ever see me typing on discord please ping me and tell me to shut up.

Two months of silence after 0.3.0 🙂

[gusty stirrup]

See you in May and best of luck

[wild geode]

I am the encourager of bad behaviours. I will do no such thing.

[bleak karma]

JP+ wouldn't have been the way it is now without me slacking off uni...

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[crisp stone]

…JP+ was born out of procrastination 👍

[ember heron]

All projects of passion are mostly born out of slacking off work

more or less

unless your passion is your work

[neon light]

KiHa 58 variant?

[crisp stone]

Deffo

[bleak glade]

Are there any joyful trains in yet?
it seems something that was a lower priority than getting base trains in to me tho

[nova bay]

14 and 20 coaches…

[kindred karma]

yes
first train designed by Eiji Mitooka

[crude phoenix]

We do have these two in JP+ Engines, more will come eventually

[peak zinc]

euroliner?

[crude phoenix]

Yep, graphics could be improved tho

[peak zinc]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/JNR-pc12_euroliner.jpg

was it an charter train or an normal train operating on an scheaduled line?

and why it was called euroliner... does not look evan remotely european (i haven't seen photos of interior)

hmmmmm look at the green scheme

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yoneyamaexp/imgs/e/f/efe7ba7f.jpg

pullmann compartmetns with vis-a-vis seats?

[neon light]

ive reported this already, probably a month ago now

[crisp stone]

ahaha, I missed yours sorry

I got it again from Yozura last week

[neon light]

i believe its only that livery for the 80 series

and it only sometimes does it

[crisp stone]

the 70

and it'll be me being dumb 👍

[neon light]

ah

Also there seems to be no way to get a non gangway cab coach on the KiHa 85

[crisp stone]

how are you trying

[nova bay]

KiHa 85 Hida is famous for nearly-all-cab-coaches consists

[neon light]

I’m not sure anymore

It’s a confusing one

Compared to other units

[crisp stone]

It isn't if you remember it is a KiHa lol

You need to treat it more like a KiHa 40

In that, the KiHa 85 formations are very varied so

You need to refit the cab cars to make then either penetrating or non-penetrating cab cars

the rest, fill up with MU cars

ctrl+click to flip any cab cars

I should make a guide

It is the same as for KiHa types

[peak zinc]

well... it apears that in Japan MUs are treated more flexible (a lot like loco -hueled coaches) instand of fixed sets that can be combined whan needed.

Evan each MU car has it's own number if I am correct?

[neon light]

They don’t have refit

Last time I checked (yesterday) anyway

[bleak glade]

you have to click on thee cab cars directly

[crude phoenix]

By default, the whole train is selected for refit. But because engines and wagons have non-matching refit lists, it doesn't show anything

[crude phoenix]

The dots and lines seem to be broken in the font you're using, should look like this

[late snow]

What do the symbols even mean?

Also what font youre using?

[rancid garden]

I thought those were some japanese symbols lol

[crude phoenix]

It's supposed to show which are variations and which are separate liveries

such as on the infamous 211 series

not sure why it's inconsistent, I guess Tinny was trying different things

[shrewd wren]

TINNNNEEEY

[royal nimbus]

Could they not be added by the grf for those with baseset font?

[tidal perch]

Just replace cargo stubtypes with variants

[neon light]

Ah thank you

[tidal perch]

Reason that I hate the use of those • | symbols is that different fonts define different widths for those glyphs, which is clearly demonstrated in your screenshot.
The bullet and box characters have different widths

I tend to make all strings in my grf (least for English) ascii compatible.

[crude phoenix]

Yeah it's never been ideal, it might get changed at some point

[tidal perch]

e.g.
WINS STATIONS >> fake bridges
Using >> as the separator

@shrewd wren why

Cargo stubtypes is not intuitive

Variants tells the story itself

[bleak glade]

huh that makes so much sense!
Just tried with the traditional sprite font and the new one and both dont show those characters

[tidal perch]

The game's confused

🙂 OpenTTD Sans cannot cover all unicode codepoints

I use IBM Plex Sans SC

[tidal perch]

Surprisingly it's not usable when I switched the display language to English

[crude phoenix]

I'm confident that JP+ will never fully replace livery refits with variants 🙂

[tidal perch]

tech debt?

[bleak glade]

Both have their uses in JP+

[tidal perch]

Oh, and recent progress in WINS, I betrayed calculus...

[shrewd wren]

Because variants will suck a lot until a built-in props sharing feature will be implemented
Currently it's *2~∞ times more code just for "funny intuitive image"

[tidal perch]

As in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/12523 ¿
It is closed

Code is cheap anyways, sprites are expensive

[shrewd wren]

Apparently, I've said that I was interested in this multiple times, but I guess I don't count as an interest

Also as I know group name is taken from the latest vehicle you've used, so Tokyu 2020 series could easily be displayed as Tokyu 2020 series Q-Car in the purchase menu

[tidal perch]

I would just template everything in yaml, and use a script to process it...
But not everyone has the time to make a templating system, or at least to study one

[tidal perch]

That can be fixed by using Extra callback info I think

[shrewd wren]

And xUSSR shenanigans just make the list look ugly with bazillions of grayed out boxes

[tidal perch]

There's a section in extra callback info 1/2 that gives the purchase list depth

[shrewd wren]

I guess that's what extra callback info is

[tidal perch]

I guess you don't need to follow xussr then?

[open falcon]

I think people expressed interest in that PR everywhere but the PR itself where Peter could see. I don’t think he reads many channels here.

[shrewd wren]

I mean that they are the ones who use this extra callback info, and I can see that it doesn't look good

[tidal perch]

hmm

[tidal perch]

In terms of the unpurchasable vehicles?

[shrewd wren]

I think that's how it could only be done currently?

[shrewd wren]

I expressed the need of this feature every time I could, and was pretty sure he has seen my replies to his messages

[tidal perch]

All entries purchasable

Like what andy did in iron horse

[tidal perch]

Hmm, I think I actually messed up something

Needs further testing

[shrewd wren]

If so then variants got better from the last time I've checked on them, that's nice

[tidal perch]

IH has some ｂｅｔｔｅｒ examples

[tidal perch]

grrrrr IME

[shrewd wren]

After rereading it seems like I was heating it too much
Was not having a good time for the last several days, so hope you'll excuse my wording

[tidal perch]

One of my favourite Confucius quotes,
http://keywords.china.org.cn/m/2022-10/13/content_78464134.html

[nova bay]

If this was used in coding JP+, then it has to be used with some future versions of openttd.

[crisp stone]

WHAT

[crisp stone]

Yeaa~ that

[crisp stone]

Quite, variants are good for the massive amount of subtypes - livery refits for all the liveries

[crisp stone]

Dont worry so much about it, its all going anyway

[crisp stone]

211 always testing 😛

[native warren]

I would not say that code is cheap, endlessly duplicating massive piles of switches is not ideal. That PR only handles properties which mostly are cheap though. It's no great loss.

I'm not really a fan of duplicating everything with templates but NML makes doing anything better fairly difficult.

[tidal perch]

JP+ Is already using variants anyways, not sure where your statement is from.

[upper arrow]

...uhoh. A new Shorty has arrived.

[crude phoenix]

E31 painted to look like a EF65? Cute

Looks like I have a new livery refit to add 🙂

[kindred karma]

marmite
matter of taste

speaking of jnr inspired livery
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Series_ET127-V1_Tajima_nostalgic-Niigata-color.jpg/1200px-Series_ET127-V1_Tajima_nostalgic-Niigata-color.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Series_ET127-V8_Tajima_Yokosuka-color.jpg/1200px-Series_ET127-V8_Tajima_Yokosuka-color.jpg

[neon light]

That’s nice

[peak zinc]

the first one looks like berlin S-bahn

[neon light]

meant to be this livery

[haughty monolith]

@tidal perch was we supposed to tell you to study?

[tidal perch]

I don't think I should study at 4 in the morning

[haughty monolith]

i mean this

[tidal perch]

me cooked

This time, actually, no more aseprite 🙂

@crude phoenix could you please restrict my account

[crude phoenix]

do you want a mute? for how long? 🙂

[shrewd wren]

Lol

[tidal perch]

Ideally for a month

[merry token]

Hi guys, sorry for my blunt request. I just bought a book on unbuilt railway vehicles in Japan. I have got some data and drawing for the proposed freight Shinkansen EMU. Is there any developer interested in it? 😉

[peak cargo]

I'd be interested for my stuff at the very least :3

whats the book?

[gusty stirrup]

Surprised freight express trains didn't take off in more places, France had TGVs carrying express mail between cities

Surely there is a Tokyo-Osaka express delivery market

[merry token]

It's 幻の国鉄車両 "The Illusory JNR Vehicles"
https://www.amazon.co.jp/幻の国鉄車両-JTBキャンブックス-石井-幸孝/dp/4533069061

I think the book is a fairly reliable source (on this cargo Shinkansen). I compare the drawings with an blurry online image extrated from the megazine 交通技術 "Transport Technology" published in 1960. And that's a perfect match.

Btw love to see your australian set, I learned a lot from your videos.

[peak cargo]

Omg thanks aaaaa

But yh, if you could send me sny of those blueprints I'd be interested

There specifically a design of an American shinkansen I'm after for my north American set

[merry token]

May I dm you to continue our discussion?

[peak cargo]

Of course! I am at uni currently so I may not be able to respond immediately

[crude phoenix]

That's exactly what the M250 does 🙂

[crude phoenix]

Please do share 🙂 I might add the freight shinkansen eventually and I'm always looking for weird prototypes too

[merry token]

Please enjoy yourself😌

[gusty stirrup]

Oh ok

[peak cargo]

ooooh

I'm guessing there's nothing in there about an American shinkansen?

this is basically all I have on it unfortunatley :/

[crude phoenix]

You want an American Shinkansen? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/648414105975128077/1308007610015944826/w4eg0tx7zj1e1.png?ex=67edb243&is=67ec60c3&hm=ebcb49a2fe8661a3259d9d87b5ddbcf139d09b2eb8897b9da8d9cd7778eb8135&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1771&height=1328

[peak cargo]

tbh, that goes hard

[neon light]

I know a lot of people that would disagree

[peak zinc]

0 series looks great in every livery

[neon light]

Freightliner power haul

[merry token]

https://x.com/nasubi172/status/1390972372904153093

Apparently, even books for children can be informative

ルンプロ (@nasubi172) on X

#見てみたかった幻の車両を上げる
\あたらしいかもつれっしゃ!!/
containerのロゴと特急ヘッドマークが神々しい貨物新幹線用車両が見たかった。

X · May 8, 2021, 10:10 AM

[peak zinc]

looking really nice!

[neon light]

What would its class number be though

[peak zinc]

hmmmmm as 9XX is reserved for maintanaince vehicles and 10XX for test vehicles maybe 1200 or 1900?

0-899 seem to be reserved for passenger vehicles

also what does the small window with 196 number mean?

I note an similer (?) number on the frame...

1964

maybe 1900 is ment to be the series

6 is the number of this set

and 4 is car number in this set?

[peak zinc]

https://railgallery.ru/photo/264848/

DD11 in Vietnam?

[nova bay]

South East Asia has abundant secondhand Japanese trains

[peak zinc]

I have known about tham in Thailand, Indonesia, Burma and Philipine, but not about Viet Nham!

[shrewd wren]

More depots

[sharp hearth]

Wondering if you could bring back the feature from JapanSet where you can couple engines to MUs

[crude phoenix]

Was that ever a feature?

Engines have no coupling restrictions so you can put whatever you want behind them

[crude phoenix]

Can you give an example? I tried with JapanSet3 and it doesn't work either way

JP+ lets you do this

[neon light]

Usui pass ef63 banking 🔥

[sharp hearth]

Oh yeah I was thinking about that because I've occasionally seen a bug when reversing a consist where the default steam locomotive sprite would pop up at the end

[crude phoenix]

We tried to implement the banking engines in the push pull code once but ran into problems

Partly due to engines and MUs being in separate GRFSs

[peak zinc]

https://migenda.weebly.com/japanische-atomlokomotive-ah110---entwurf.html

https://migenda.weebly.com/japanische-atomlokomotive-ah100---entwurf.html

[bleak karma]

Please don't spam random stuff in here, if you want to share something about Japanese trains please use the #1076928518727946240 thanks

[nova bay]

it is said D52 can go 85km/h... while it is 75km/h in game

D51 is also 85km/h

[peak zinc]

likely there were a couple of versions?

[crude phoenix]

I copied the speeds from JapanSet, but gave the D61/D62 the faster speeds to differentiate them more

[shrewd wren]

Even more depots

[wild geode]

yesssssssssssssssss

I really dig those

[crude phoenix]

Gorgeous, finally something that fits the steam era

[wild geode]

auto date changing depots

[crude phoenix]

Nah, make them by year built so old depots stay old

[open falcon]

NotDepotTypes when? Plz OpenTTD devs

[wild geode]

but that's you! You're an OpenTTD dev!

you should speak to Peter about depots, we were yarning about drivethrough and multitile depots the the other day.

[wild geode]

acceptable

[shrewd wren]

You can't sadly use built_year for depots

[wild geode]

dawwww

[shrewd wren]

Wooden will probably turn into metal shack in 70s
Brick will stay the same forever

[green monolith]

Hmm.

NewGRFDepots?

Depots have off-map storage.

So adding a build date should be possible.

How am I here? I don't normally venture into these "forums"

[peak zinc]

is it even possible to have a couple of diffrent train depot designs on the same tracktype?

[crude phoenix]

No, and let's move this conversation back to #add-on-development

[peak zinc]

OK

So I bet that these will be working as train stations ingame?

End of offtop

[shrewd wren]

They are used by different tracktypes, so they are fully functional

[shrewd wren]

New JP+ Tracks version is out! #developer-updates message
It surely took a while
Next, I will probably finish what's left of JP+Roads (mostly photoshop masking/linking and cutting) for the first release

[tidal perch]

Side note: incompatible with WINS

I'll fix the problem later

☝️😉 coding is more fun than calculus

[shrewd wren]

Version is 500, if it has worked with 400 then the reason is really weird

[tidal perch]

I set it to throw an error if version is not 400

Also my gh actions is cursed. It now compiles aseprite to compile WINS

should set up a cache for that

[tidal perch]

ok updated

[lucid belfry]

Can I request a setting to enable the old tunnel portals for the narrow-gauge tracks? The new ones, quite frankly, are harder to fit within my current game. Thanks!

[shrewd wren]

You can either use slab track tunnel or light concrete fake underground to have "urban" tunnels

[tidal perch]

Is there a marukyu reaction

9 in a square doesn't match very well

🔞

The only number-in-a-circle reaction I can find

[hallow dune]

this is a bit of a problem... not even jp+ shinkansen trains can run on it. additionally, the other shinkansen track type isn't available either

[shrewd wren]

Yeah, there was a label overlap
Pushed 0.5.1 update, should be fixed

[tidal perch]

Hmm two numbers here sum up to 9

[royal nimbus]

@shrewd wren what version of nml do you use to compile jp+tracks?

[shrewd wren]

0.7.5

[royal nimbus]

okay I had failed to update my install

thanks

[nova bay]

This is translated to English "New Narrow Gauge is on sale". But it is actually "new narrow gauge locomotive".
I think this is due to some translation of JP+ Tracks. But I would better not disturb WenSim.

[tidal perch]

sic

https://github.com/OpenTTD-JPplus/JPplusTracks/blob/9c07522fedccbbb1f98ef54566e84a3ecc2cf815/src/rails/narrow/narrow_ne_0.pnml#L9-L9

[nova bay]

Oops

[mossy night]

lmao

the fucking anime girl

[shrewd wren]

This is how I can share my art, I'm too bad to upload works to pixiv or twitter 👉 👈

[tidal perch]

nyan nyan nyan

all: JPtracks.grf

PNML_FILES := $(shell find -type f -name '*.pnml')
IMAGE_FILES := $(shell find -type f -name '*.png')

%.grf: %.nml custom_tags.txt $(IMAGE_FILES)
        nmlc $< -p LEGACY -o $@

%.nml: $(PNML_FILES)
        gcc -E -x c src/index.pnml > $@

this version should work better

.PHONY: all clean
.PRECIOUS: %.nml

all: JPtracks.grf

clean:
        rm -f JPtracks.grf
        rm -f JPtracks.nml

PNML_FILES := $(shell find -type f -name '*.pnml')
IMAGE_FILES := $(shell find -type f -name '*.png')
LNG_FILES := $(shell find -type f -name '*.lng')

%.grf: %.nml custom_tags.txt $(IMAGE_FILES) $(LNG_FILES)
        nmlc $< -p LEGACY -o $@

%.nml: $(PNML_FILES)
        gcc -E -x c src/index.pnml > $@

I can't really run a windows bat script on linux, so I wrote this makefile 🙂

It works for lots of grfs

[plush cliff]

will rotary snow plow diesel locos be added? like the DD53 and DD14

[crude phoenix]

They're not high priority, but eventually yes 🙂

[mellow jacinth]

The recolour on and only on the TOMU 1 seems to be broken.
JP+ Engines & Wagons, JGR 65.2, FIRS 4.16

[crude phoenix]

What cargo?

[mellow jacinth]

China Clay and Coal

[zinc crescent]

You guys planning on adding the JR 681 Series?

[crude phoenix]

Sure, when it gets drawn

[peak zinc]

I must admit, that I love the 681s other cab car design

https://thumb.photo-ac.com/78/78bc77d2841125f8b0efe3e656253760_t.jpeg

flat front walk-through cab cars are just sooooo coool

[odd verge]

oh wow

i was thinking "walk through? what did they mean by walk through?" and then i saw the doors

[peak zinc]

it ables the passengers and crew to go from one MU to another whan coupled, also in motion

why it isn't more popular?

[odd verge]

must be a lot of drag. and inconvenient for the driver, i imagine

[finite ore]

The Dutch tried it with their Koplopers, but got rid of the doors on refurbishment. They rarely saw use, and were unreliable and so caused delays. I imagine there's a similar reason as to why they're not more popular; I don't think people commonly walk between carriages on normal trains, so the cost and complexity that comes with making a set of doors like this to let them walk from set to set is likely not worth it

[odd verge]

eh? i walk between carriages all the time, not every carriage has a water closet

[finite ore]

Hmhm, fair, but then that would be just a quick back-and-forth between carriages within the same train? In my experience at least, people tend to enter a carriage and then either sit or stand there, rather than walking the entire length of the train looking for a seat in most cases, meaning there's little use for being able to walk from one set to another set - even in your situation, there's little reason why there'd be a toilet in only one set, so even then you'd just be able to stay within the same set rather than needing to walk to the other one.

-# though this is getting pretty off-topic by now.

[odd verge]

true, true

i have gone up the full length of the train looking for an empty seat once. but that was on me, i didn't want to ask the people in my seat to move

and yes this thread is becoming increasingly derailed. i'll stop now

[nova bay]

Still waiting for more kiha…
No KiHa 20, No Hokkaido
Oh and also 14 and 20 series coaches

[wild geode]

Jake’s gonna come in here and fucking murder you all again

[peak zinc]

bufet trollays

ticket inspectors

Have to go between coaches

END OF OFFTOP

[crisp stone]

Ayy he is too busy riding steam trains today

I should take his place

[wild geode]

That’s a decent excuse at least

[kindred karma]

*kiha 22
not noticeable on openttd tho obviously

[nova bay]

https://youtu.be/1leNfdbf7hQ?si=za3dtWzdq6G3vst3
“Private Railway Passenger & Fish Mixed Train”

[peak zinc]

Interesting that the coach that is used as an luggage van still has seats and it is LITERALLY SPOTLESS

[neon light]

It’s Japan did you expect anything else?

[bleak karma]

Please keep off topic chatter in other channels please

[sharp hearth]

Is there any plans to add a company colored livery in MUs?

[bleak karma]

There is, but the JP+ MU artists (me included) are a bit busy at the moment, so it'll be slow

[arctic cargo]

Hi! I was wondering if y'all were planning to make the one piece N700?

[crude phoenix]

I swear I will start removing off topic comments here

But yes, most likely any special liveries will be added eventually 🙂

[arctic cargo]

Good to know, thanks!

[nova bay]

cooking

[peak zinc]

God, this depot sprite looks delicious!

[crude phoenix]

Please ask before drawing anything. The KiHa 20 already has mostly complete sprites but it's not coded yet

[bleak karma]

We appreciate your input, but someone else has provided kiha 20 sprites already

[nova bay]

Oops

Sorry

[tidal perch]

should be cooking station sprites now

got distracted by rust and subtitle making

[tidal perch]

I'm thinking of adding bus stops in WINS
Lile ahyangyi did in his Wuhu stations

[nova bay]

I don't think there is someone doing KiHa 10

[rancid garden]

Can't connect SG (Low-Grade) track to non-electrified SG (wooden-ties), whereas this issue doesn't happen with electrified SG tracks.
Edit: Actually this happens with all of the non-electrified SG tracks.

[shrewd wren]

Huh, weird I'll take a look at it

[peak zinc]

bug detected!

also series 373 looks just like the defauklt variant of series 383 (which does NOT look like in the purchase menu) (Also, these are very similer - schouldn't be merged into 1 class with subseries?)

also 3 suggestions:

1. add double deck coaches to series 100 shinkansen
2. add an setting to buy the company coloured variant by default
   make the jp+ bridges compatible with default track

[nova bay]

100 Shinkansen has double decker in game

And JP+ is meant to be played with both narrow and standard gauges

[peak zinc]

is it possible to have an smaller track selection (like: narrow not electrified, narrow electrified, broad electrified) in the JP+ track?

[peak zinc]

oh, I see the DD coach apears only in longer train configurations!

[nova bay]

check parameters of JP+ tracks 🙂

[crude phoenix]

The only way to make a bridge set compatible with vanilla track is to make the track sprites part of the bridge sprite. And I don't wanna do that 🙂

[royal nimbus]

That also only works for one baseset

[peak zinc]

Possible to disable the slabs variant?

As it has the same parameters as the high speed variant

[shrewd wren]

You can't disable them 🙂

[peak zinc]

also, series 719 and 701 seem to have problems with attaching MU coaches

[crude phoenix]

Those are 2-car units, not all trains can attach MU wagons

[crude phoenix]

and the 373 works fine on my end

[peak zinc]

interestingly now I cannot repeat the bug

maybe it was with coaches re-used from another MU?

(moved from)

[crude phoenix]

Were you attaching MU wagons that had been refitted to a different livery on another train?

If so, just refit it again to the default livery and the bug should go away

[peak zinc]

so, therethically it is not an bug?

[crude phoenix]

It's a side effect of livery refits, yes

[peak zinc]

I am sorry for Your inconvinience...

[shrewd wren]

Minor graphical update for 🍌
for those who complained about visuals
Changed ballast shading for a more pleasant look in temperate climate
And added precombined switches for dual-gauge track

[peak zinc]

also currently the 160km/h NG track seem not practical as all NG trains have vmax 130 or less

[crude phoenix]

There are faster NG trains planned though. Or you might use JapanSet3

[peak zinc]

dont want to make shitposting, but I have came across something funny that may be added as an easteregg

Fictional loco called either EB58 or EB10

https://www.giantbomb.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/16/164924/3003641-3795306488-27506.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrtNtPSWQAArWO1?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[royal nimbus]

May I use the grass fences and catenary from jp+ tracks in sets? I don't see a license

Now I do it wasn't in the repo

[shrewd wren]

Sure, you can use anything there

[tidal perch]

iirc it's gplv2

[shrewd wren]

Even more texture and shading tweaks

[tidal perch]

Is the grass on the ballast transparent pixels or solid green pixels?

[shrewd wren]

Solid due to this particular green blending better

[tidal perch]

hmm

[shrewd wren]

Added more grass types to use, now with desert support

[mossy night]

i'd like to make a bug report regarding JP tracks

i noticed with JP tracks only 2/3 possible 313s load, one only works on OHLE and one only works on 3rd rail, they're a dual voltage vehicle

with SETS things behave better but one vehicle is still limited to one track type

i did a cross examination and i found that JP tracks struggles with dual voltage vehicles from both UKRS2 and RUKTS

these vehicles simply do not appear on JP 3rd rail

i can provide grf params too one sec

[shrewd wren]

JP+ doesn't have dual voltage 3rd rail/OHLE tracks due to this being very British thing, the only way I can make them work currently is by defining "dual voltage" to nonelectrified tracks, which is not good

[mossy night]

the vehicles marked as missing, apart from the ukrs2 313 all do appear on JP tracks with OHLE, that specific 313 is the only one that is fully missing

ahh

[shrewd wren]

I can make them at least work for OHLE

[mossy night]

i think a slight misunderstanding has happened

the vehicles highlighted are meant to appear on 3rd rail and OHLE because they are dual voltage but with JP tracks loaded they do not appear for 3rd rail, only OHLE

[shrewd wren]

Ah yes that's due to tracks not having a combined variant with correct label, won't work until I'll make a more "international" version sadly

[mossy night]

fair enough

[peak zinc]

It seems that the EB10 colour selection is bugged...

I select brown and I got black
I select CC and I got brown

[peak cargo]

I think you guys have probably been asked this a million times, but are you guys planning a generic/international version of JP+ tracks?

and you also planning on including a dedicated monorail track? because rn if you have a monorail in game it's just the default game track

[crude phoenix]

EB10 refit is a known bug

I believe an international version of the track set is planned

not sure if any monorail graphics are planned

[peak cargo]

all good, It'd be good to do at least for compatability

I wanna play with JP+ trackset at some point, and use the monorail GRF I have planned

[wild geode]

this issue has been haunting me, I still get the rest of the ground tiles showing even if I disable chips

[tidal perch]

https://github.com/OpenTTD-JPplus/JPplusTracks/blob/27c7d41aa1c58be7220c96c6eb8000466a3889a2/JPtracks.nml#L5864-L5865

this if block contains nothing

so param_tracks_deco_chips_1 won't affect anything

@shrewd wren

[wild geode]

D:::::

I've just turned them back on for the time being but I'd like to keep my track list a bit slimmer.

[shrewd wren]

I'll fix that, thanks

[wild geode]

arigatou 🙏

[rancid garden]

The northern end of suspension bridge is not right.

[crude phoenix]

This is already fixed in JP+ Bridges 1.1

[rancid garden]

oops my apologies !!!

[crude phoenix]

Wait I never put 1.1 on Bananas

[wild geode]

Jaaaaaaaaaake

[crude phoenix]

I thought I did, thanks for the heads up

[wild geode]

Jp+ trackify the surfaces plz

[crude phoenix]

I'm thinking that'll be a new separate version 2, so that people can continue using the current one with JapanSet tracks

[wild geode]

Understandable, have a nice day.

[shrewd wren]

I might redo the urban track surfaces someday, I think those are not loved

[wild geode]

I do miss some of the detail the jp tracks original one has

And u&rermm’s urban looks damn near three dimensional

[crude phoenix]

I thought they were the same except U&RerMM is a few shades lighter

[wild geode]

Nah the sprites have quite a lot more detail to them IMO

[timber sandal]

When will JP+ Bridges 1.1 be available?

[crude phoenix]

When I remember to put it up there, I'm going to bed now but hopefully tomorrow 😅

[tidal perch]

Ha I'm waking up now

[weary roost]

JP+ track fence graphics are covering signals
also occurs for other orientations on the "near" side of the track

[wild geode]

not much you can do about that I think. Sprite sorter strikes again.

the grass overlay fences will never be 100% perfect

[green monolith]

If you turn off "Full detail" then the grass overlay won't overlay the signals.

[wild geode]

I just disable the grass overlay and run full width. It's a nice effect but junctions get a little weird and I haven't bothered poking around with the fence logic.

[green monolith]

If your driving side is drive-on-left, then the signals will be sorted before the fence.

[peak cargo]

common left hand traffic W

[green monolith]

Maybe the fence bounding box can be moved to the top corner.

Might break someone else's spacebar...

[crude phoenix]

That's good because it's the correct side for JP+ anyway 😛

that explains why I haven't noticed the clipping issues

[neon light]

I’ve only ever used the track set with rhd countries so I’ve never noticed this

[royal nimbus]

Would it not be broken on the other side with drive on left?

[green monolith]

Yes, it is.

[signal estuary]

I built JR west's 287 series for the JP+ MU Set and posted it on the issue.

https://github.com/OpenTTD-JPplus/JPplusMU/issues/163

[crude phoenix]

Should be up there now 🙂

[tidal perch]

Hey @crude phoenix it's been half a year since I opened https://github.com/OpenTTD-JPplus/JPengines/pull/20 when will you merge it? 😄

[crisp stone]

JP+ is slow 🤭

[tidal perch]

I'm slower

In terms of making my WINS stations

[shrewd wren]

If someone asks about jp+private update, I want them banned

[tidal perch]

But I do have some sort of excuse... badge query for station tiles 😊

It is taking forever for someone to merge that PR and I don't want to work on it until the interfaces are stable

[tidal perch]

What's the js code in the repo for?
Looks like some sort of automation script

[shrewd wren]

I tried to make an auto constructor, but then I understood that Japanese trains are complicated in too many ways, and implementing autocoder would actually take more time than regular nml masochism

[tidal perch]

I see