Ragins Train Sets

[strange quiver]

the desire to do the rest of the F/E units is strong... :(((

also I might change the code I have thus far to make the B units the centre cars, since that seems how they prefered to do B units irl

so effectively like how it's done in NARS

I really like how in that you can reverse the final unit to make it an A unit

[signal gate]

"is this GPL"?

[strange quiver]

even if it were, it's in NFO 😦

[frosty sand]

Variants for B units instead of automatic? Lots of railroads ran mixed hood and cab unit consists, especially later in the diesel era

Then @red stump can yell at people on S1 for using B units to lead trains 😛

[strange quiver]

I considered that, but the problem is I'd need to double up on IDs for cab units

and it's one of those features that I think would be cool from a train nerd perspective, but I think it'd be better to keep it simple

[frosty sand]

You have 65,535 IDs to work with, I doubt that would be an issue 😛

[strange quiver]

also because if I separate B-units, then there'd be justification for adding other things like GP60Bs or SD40Bs and the like and aaaa

[strange quiver]

I've already assigned around 45k of them tho 😦

[signal gate]

tempted to use your sprites as placeholders / starters for Moose

[strange quiver]

you're more than welcome to

everything's CC-BY

[glossy compass]

what how

[strange quiver]

lots of locomotives and lots of liveries

technichally not all are allocted, and a lot are just in reserve in case I change something

but each passenger/mixed traffic loco is assigned 100 ids

and freight locos are 50

[glossy compass]

makes sense

[strange quiver]

yeeeee

I am a very goofy goober for this

[frosty sand]

Over-reserving is killing you here, I think

[strange quiver]

yeah, but I'd still rather do it than be put in a situation where I want to add/rework something at a later date and be unable to

[turbid bronze]

pfft, fuck save compatibility, we die like men.

[signal gate]

reserving 100 is a lot

[strange quiver]

I know, but there's another reason

if I end it on 100, it makes it a lot easier to re-use code

my plan is to use standard names for all the liveries and stuff

[turbid bronze]

the brain worms are in control now

we are watching the brain worms develop a .grf in real time

[strange quiver]

so I can just copy the code from an F3 or something, and then just use find and replace to re-use it for the F9

aaa

[strange quiver]

yeah 😦

it's one of those things where I know what I'm doing, but I'm also insane

[frosty sand]

I mean, if you weren’t worried about savegame compatibility (and I wouldn’t), you can just set the ID to -1 and NML will generate numbers sequentially based on the order that engines are defined in the code

[strange quiver]

I know

[frosty sand]

And if your code stays in a consistent order, it would actually be savegame compatible 🙂

[strange quiver]

it's just the way I plan on developing my sets means they'll always break compatibility if I did that

my plan for the loco pack is to do it piecemeal, where each update might be a few freight, passenger, mixed traffic locos

I want to try and have it savegame compatible so when I do update it doesn't break peoples saves so they can just update and get the new stuff

that's why I went overboard with assigning ids

[signal gate]

blocks of 100 isn't stupid, FIRS does it for object IDs

it's just ... a lot

and you get 6500 trains on this basis

[strange quiver]

I only want to break compatibility if it's a big change

[signal gate]

no, 650 trains?

maths 😛

[strange quiver]

like what I'm planning for GNARTS, which will get a total rework

[signal gate]

650 trains is smaller than Horse

[strange quiver]

yee, 650 is still a lot

and half of the trains I have planned with only need 50 ids each

so it's more like ~900 or so usable ids

[signal gate]

Horse is 964 trains currently

[strange quiver]

yeah

I think this loco pack has around 600 locos planned?

[signal gate]

how many of your engines have more than 10 variants?

[frosty sand]

Is that including liveries?

[strange quiver]

all will 😦

[strange quiver]

nope 😦

I'm not going to do every livery at once, so a lot are reserved

[signal gate]

how many will have more than 50 liveries?

[strange quiver]

pretty much all the mixed traffic and passenger locos

[signal gate]

fair

[strange quiver]

The JF6C here is what ideally all mixed traffic and passenger locos will get

which is why that list is so long

[turbid bronze]

brain worms 😛

[strange quiver]

freight locos will only get the private operator liveries like this

so it's a lot

[frosty sand]

Y no Amtrak SD40 😦

(Joking)

[strange quiver]

but a lot of ids are reserved for piecemeal stuff, because I don't plan on doing them all at once, more when I just have the time/energy or am in the mood

it's why I didn't do all the transit/private liveries for the FL9 today

because I've reserved IDs when I do them all at a later date it's savegame compatible

[strange quiver]

I do have 10 ids reserved on each loco for goober ideas like that so...

here's how I lay it out btw

so yh, a lot are in reserve, but a lot are also there solely so I can end on a 0, which makes copying code easier

also if you're curious, the JF6C starts at 51800, and ends at 51872 so aaaa

[signal gate]

you're manually writing nml for 65,000 trains?

[strange quiver]

I guess?

like I'm not using a pnml setup

[turbid bronze]

monolithic NML with 65k trains

[strange quiver]

no one can steal my code if I'm the only one insane enough to look through it >:)

[frosty sand]

Not one big file, I hope?

[strange quiver]

no comment...

[frosty sand]

Heheh

If you ever want to split it into smaller files, I have a Python script in all my NML repos that combines NML files into one big file, runs NMLC, and copies the .grf file to my OpenTTD installation for testing in-game. Pretty handy for reducing development time, compared to how I did it manually before 🙂

I do one file per type of train (or industry, or whatever I’m creating)

[strange quiver]

I probably should take you up on that at some point

I'm not having issues with one big file, but at the same time, I should break it up, at the very least because it'll make people messing with my stuff in future easier

[frosty sand]

Be kind to future you 😄

Danish Trains is the most relevant repo to look at, if you decide to go that route

[strange quiver]

I might take a look tomorrow

better to start now while GNALP is small

[frosty sand]

Yep 🙂

[signal gate]

it's outstandingly easier to manage things like IDs if there's a compile script

[strange quiver]

true

[frosty sand]

Are you doing passenger cars as well, to go with locos? I have an affinity for the short-lived Acela Regional livery on Amfleet cars 🙂

https://www.flickr.com/photos/103688802@N02/32313811560

[strange quiver]

would there be a way where I could just insert a string or something, and then when it combines and compiles the files it assigns the ids that way?

so that it effectively does what I'm already doing, just automatically?

[strange quiver]

I do, but the passenger cars go in the passenger set!

but my plan is to develop GNAPS and GNALP side by side atm

[frosty sand]

65k locos, 65k passenger cars, 65k multiple units… good things the build vehicle menu has a search bar 😛

I’ll admit that I can’t remember which acronym goes with which set

[strange quiver]

you're gonna need it 😦

[strange quiver]

I probably could give them better names, but I'm terrible at naming things 😦

but yh, my plan for GNALP (the loco pack) and GNAPS (MUs and passenger cars) is to develop them side by side

and I have a todo list within my existing list of stuff to do for a 1.0 release

so when they go on bananas, they'll go up together

[frosty sand]

Could ask Discord for name suggestions but they’d probably all be <material> <regionally-specific animal> 😄

[strange quiver]

true

"I can't wait to play with copper oppossum and manganese bald eagle"

[frosty sand]

Could always go with “Ragin’s American Locos/Passenger Cars”

Or invent some other fictional brand, although if you’re doing all of North America it might be hard to find a name that works for the whole continent and not just the US

[strange quiver]

yeah, I think it's something I'd need to workshop

I don't really want to have my username in the title though

idk, I just don't like attention

could just drop the "Generic"

North American Loco Pack, North American Passenger Pack

[turbid bronze]

generic north american loco pack renewal redux+

[strange quiver]

maybe we could try and spell out a funny word

[turbid bronze]

gnalp and gnart are funny sounding

[strange quiver]

true, that's partially why I went with them originally

[frosty sand]

I think you’d want to unify the multiple sets under a single brand — in this case gnalp and gnart work, as long as you can remember how to spell them:)

[strange quiver]

I guess we'll just stick with Generic XYZ

since all my sets will have a name like that

also it's what it says on the tin

Generic North American/Oceanian Passenger/Rapid Transit/Loco/Freight Pack/Set

[frosty sand]

Is it generic if you have real liveries? I’d argue that “comprehensive” might be a better word 😛

“Representative” is another word I’ve seen, at least in RUKTS

[turbid bronze]

COMPREHENSIVE

[frosty sand]

MAKE THAT AN ACRONYM

[strange quiver]

yes!

[frosty sand]

C - Comprehensive

[strange quiver]

Comprehensive North American Passenger Set

[frosty sand]

(Yes, it’s recursive)

[strange quiver]

CNAPS

[turbid bronze]

Comprehensive Unified Northern Transit Set

RIGHT, bed time

[strange quiver]

the Australian in me is way too tempted...

[turbid bronze]

god that would make the 50yr old+ autistic foamers on the forums lose their minds

the outrage

do it

someone has to reclaim my old mantle of most offensive grf author

[strange quiver]

it's so tempting 😦

but I also don't wanna start drama

at least without good reason

[frosty sand]

If it were a better acronym

[turbid bronze]

Sometimes it’s good to preemptively start a little drama, so you can control it. Otherwise drama will find you.

Etc etc

[frosty sand]

Comprehensive North American Loco Pack / Passenger Pack, or C-NALP and C-NAPP?

Also C-OPP for Oceania, I suppose

[strange quiver]

true true

[frosty sand]

Make the “Comprehensive” the unifying branding for all of your packs

[strange quiver]

tbh, I like that

Comprehensive makes it clear what the pack is, and have it be C- keeps it consistent

also comprehensive just makes so much more sense than generic

since these sets are very comprehensive 😦

[turbid bronze]

Plus nobody else has used that buzz word

[strange quiver]

maybe in the future I can make a representative set that's smaller 😦

[frosty sand]

Simplified mode 😉

[turbid bronze]

We’ve already got projects, generics, renewals, reduxes, representatives, the ever enigmatic “+”

[strange quiver]

ya'll are gonna be terrified when I finish C-NALP

and then come out with C-NALP+

[frosty sand]

What’s the plus? Future trains?

[strange quiver]

65k locomotives, all unique >:3

[frosty sand]

C-NALP 2

[strange quiver]

no, but I do have Ids reserved for stuff going out to 2100

[turbid bronze]

C-NALP REVOLUTION OVERDRIVE (directors cut)

[frosty sand]

Planning ahead, I love it

[strange quiver]

partially to account for new stuff that's introduced while I'm making my sets, and partially to include fictional future stuff

I find it kinda annoying that once you get to modern day with most sets, you're game ends

[strange quiver]

yes >:3333

[frosty sand]

I don’t think I’ve unfrozen time since 14.0 released, tbh. Talk about developing a feature to scratch a personal itch.

I was more thinking about you continuing to add new trains in 40 years, as we’re all still playing OpenTTD 😄

[turbid bronze]

To be honest that’s where the best features come from

[strange quiver]

oh you're one of those people

I tend to play games with day length set to ~15-20

I like really long multi-month games because I'm weird

[strange quiver]

by the time I retire I'll have drawn too many trains 😦

I'm gonna be that weirdo with dementia drawing F units over and over again because thats all I'll remember to do 😦

[turbid bronze]

It’s where most of my JGRPP patches come from. I want to sit down and play but I can’t because X is like fingernails down a chalk board every time I try and play.
Fix X. Get distracted by something else and still not play TTD 🙄

[frosty sand]

Ugh I know

[strange quiver]

that's me but with trains 😦

[signal gate]

that's what templating does

a long time ago I wrote this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=58390

[strange quiver]

I'll have to look into that at some point

also, EMC FT done

lets see if I can do the F3 and F7 before I fall asleep

[frosty sand]

Nice!

If I recall correctly the F3 and F7 are very similar externally

[strange quiver]

yeah

a lot of the F units are, which is why I combined them

in the final game there'll only be the FT, F3 and F7

there are some slight differences between the F3 and F7 when it comes to the vents on the side, which I'll try and work around

ideally they'd be visually different just on the CC1 sprite

I might also remove the central porthole, since only later F3s got them, and it's a further point of differentiation

actually its the inverse

aaa

F3 will have 3 portholes, F7/F9 will get 2

[frosty sand]

I almost don’t want to mention that nose headlights are a huge differentiation too 🙂

For the record, on two-headlight locos the lower lamp the headlight, while the top typically has a moving Gyralight - white for visibility and/or red as an emergency signal, which activates automatically if the brakes go into emergency and prohibits other trains from passing, in case the train has derailed. Often only passenger locos have the extra lamp, but it depends on the railroad.

[strange quiver]

true, but it's not visible side on in the purchase menu

and it was an option

so some FTs have both lights, while some F9s don't

I'm deciding for the player that they didn't opt for the extra light when ordering :3

[frosty sand]

Works for me!

[strange quiver]

https://youtu.be/vIOSBY1JJJA?si=fvjbx18sFDcFdQig

I have a terrible idea...

I've already got plenty of 1950s era OHLE heavy freight locomotives >:/

I should do a multi-section locomotive tho

[strange quiver]

I asked, and the lord apparently thought that was a funny thing to say

[soft stump]

Just saw that same video on my reccomended

[strange quiver]

I just found out about the EMD TR3

it's a EMD NW2 cow, with two calves

[strange quiver]

oh no :3

[soft stump]

Btw, I've been playing around with GOPS and i feel like the "basic" liveries could use some stripes or something for 2cc, currently they only have 1 colour (and liveries but they aren't always convenient)

[strange quiver]

I'm probably going to keep the basic liveries just CC1 since it's meant more to represent an 'unpainted one'

but if you have livery suggestions, I'd be more than happy to add some

I do want to add some 'generic' liveries at some point, I just need ideas

[soft stump]

That makes sense, tbh a livery could just be a simple stripe somewhere and you can use the same colour in cc1 and 2 to make it uniform, 2cc is very useful for me to add detail and differentiate trains

It's not really a problem anyways but I love personalizing the coulours for each service

[strange quiver]

fair fair

I might go back through and do some basic generic ones

are there any ones that you've tried to use specifically that you've not be able to get what you want?

because I'll probably go for them first

[soft stump]

Thanks for aprecciating the sugeestion! Im away from home rn, I'll check my trains later.

[strange quiver]

all good

and suggestions are always appreciated >:3333

[soft stump]

I think it was one of the Single Deck Suburbans tho, i wanted to replace the ones I was using from PGT

[strange quiver]

fair fair

a few of the really modern ones only have one livery because I didn't know what to do with them 😦

[strange quiver]

turns out replicating this isn't too difficult, it's just 4 switches

I just need to adjust my 7 reversed template and it should be ready to go

best part about this is that Kale will still have to yell at people for letting B units lead trains :3

actually it might need more adjustment, since the default seems to be a reversed A unit

also the alignment of the 7 template seems to be noticeably very off when coupled with passenger cars (FL9 for comaprison)

[wind creek]

alignments seem like hell

[strange quiver]

they very much are 😦

[strange quiver]

got all that sorted, and I've got the behaviour I wanted

now I just need to work out how to fix the default being a b unit

it should be a forward facing A unit unless its flipped

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_EMD_FT_lead_flipcheck, vehicle_is_flipped) {
0: spriteset_EMD_FT_A;
1: spriteset_EMD_FT_B;
}

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_EMD_FT_rear_flipcheck, vehicle_is_flipped) {
0: spriteset_EMD_FT_B;
1: spriteset_EMD_FT_A;
}

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_EMD_FT_lead_position, position_in_vehid_chain) {
0: switch_EMD_FT_lead_flipcheck;
spriteset_EMD_FT_B;
}

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_EMD_FT_graphics, position_in_vehid_chain_from_end) {
0: switch_EMD_FT_rear_flipcheck;
switch_EMD_FT_lead_position;
}

here's the switch chain I've been using if anyone wants to look

it was a simple case of flipping the last two switches >:/

[strange quiver]

:///// I should probably fix that

[strange quiver]

F units done

all the alignments and code are sorted

so it's livery time >:3333

[strange quiver]

Phase V EMD FT is cursed, but I love it

what if Amtrak had a Metra moment, but for F units?

F units in the Amtrak Schemes go hard

I've gotta edit a bit, but I might try and do the via schemes tonight

[strange quiver]

Via units done

gonna do the generic liveries before bed

[soft stump]

might've forgotten to tell you which trains I was using yesterday

[strange quiver]

it's all good :3

[soft stump]

I'm using the Alstom C-series, the CRRC High capacity metro train and the Downer Edi Wharatah

Im using one of the gray livery's for the Downer Edi and I have no problem there tho

[strange quiver]

fair

I'll go through and add some generic liveries tomorrow

if you have any livery ideas btw, I'd be more than happy to look into them

I'm thinking of maybe doing generic stripe liveries like you see on a lot of the EMUs in Japan

stuff like that

[soft stump]

yeah, that's pretty much what I'd want from a generic livery

That stripe goes a long way in detailing

[signal gate]

I've found with Horse that for modern units, blended / vinyl liveries are quite good as variety

arrows are quite helpful sometimes too

[strange quiver]

easy

[strange quiver]

true, it's just they're not common in Australia, so it's hard to find references

but I could just make something fun up

I do like those arrow motifs

[signal gate]

they automatically imply 'modern'

UK vinyl wraps a lot of trains

the mesh stuff I just use because it looks good in pixels, trying to draw the real vinyls would be insane https://transportdesigned.com/pictures-every-single-hst-livery-ever/

this is quite a good indicator though

[soft stump]

fr, I love horse liveries

[strange quiver]

yeah, those scotrail liveries would be a pain

I have to do the Amtrak Midwest liveries for the loco pack and aaaa

they use similar dot patterns

[strange quiver]

private liveries for the F units done

I haven't done all of them because I'm lazy, but there's a decent selection

[signal gate]

can't go wrong with 5 pixels in a grid shape 🙂

[strange quiver]

pretty sure I nicked it from horse, and it works there 🙂

[wind creek]

seeing a train in First livery always makes me laugh

since in Canada they mainly operate school buses

[strange quiver]

I've been working with the loco pack for so long, I forgot how long GOPS takes to compile...

I think this works

I might steal some of the iron horse liveries for extra spice...

also jfc my drawing skills have improved so much since I did the C series

[strange quiver]

kinda works

I fucked up one side, but its an easy fix

[strange quiver]

new HCMT liveries

now I've gotta work out what to do with the Waratahs

I can't steal idea from horse because the UK is weird and doesn't use double deckers

[strange quiver]

Waratahs done

might do some more liveries for the other ones later, but that it's for now

Kinda tempted to do something goofy and cursed though...

what if for some reason FL9s wore the NSW State Rail Authority Candy Scheme?

somewhat related, but one thing I'm thinking of doing is co-development of the Australian, North American and Export loco packs

since they'll share so many, so making sprites will be easy

e.g. the EMD export lines appear in the Australian and Export Pack, while SD40s, Dash-9s, F units, etc appear in the Australian and NA pack

Although I'm gonna sit on this until I have a releaseable version of GNAPS and GNALP

[lone minnow]

maybe

[frosty sand]

Co-development makes a lot of sense!

[soft stump]

Thanks a lot! this will be soooo useful

[strange quiver]

did the E units today

still need to do the private liveries tho

I might need to do some more stuff since currently the entire roster is EMD products

also! I'm thinking of modifying the electric locomotive code so that when they're on non-electrified tracks, they lower their pantographs

so the player can do goofy mixed diesel/electric locomotive consists like what the Milwaukee road did

its probably a niche application, but I'm sure someone would appreciate the detail, and it'd be an easy change

[turbid bronze]

this list excites me

[strange quiver]

very good >:333

[twilit grove]

It would be nice to just attach and take off locomotives to run on and off the wires

[signal gate]

"change the sprites"

auto-switch the power when it crosses the railtype 😛

[strange quiver]

would be, but to do that it'd need to be a patch

[terse sandal]

Oh, I've done them recently btw

[frosty sand]

Nice!

[frosty sand]

@strange quiver My FL9 book doesn’t have a horsepower measurement for third-rail mode, but it does mention a 660V motor-generator set off third-rail power. It should be quite weak, but I’m fine with equal power in OpenTTD 🙂

It does include a couple fun proposed liveries, should you need any more fictional shapes 😄

[vestal minnow]

For me I am just attaching napr cars to the locos, always admired them for its variety and realism

Like how they have different variants of via/amtrak cars instead of a generic one

[strange quiver]

I should probably do my own amfleet at some point

I might do them today actually...

[strange quiver]

fair

what I'm thinking of doing is just bumping their power on third rail a bit, since IRL ik the early FL9s had 1750hp engines, while the later ones were 1800hp

so I might just make it so on third rail they're 1800hp

[strange quiver]

ooooh, those are actually good because some of them are in the generic liveries already >:3

[vestal minnow]

A pair of via jf6cs pulling a passenger train (cars from napr)

[strange quiver]

oooooh

I need to do the Via coaches

and the normal GF6C

[strange quiver]

is there a better way to set this up?

ideally I'd like to have a single diner appear in the middle of the train, regardless of length

and is this the best way of going about it?

[wind creek]

Wouldn't modulo 15 fail to take into account trains longer than 7 tiles?

although I'm not an NML expert so I've probably missed something

[strange quiver]

not to my knowledge

[wind valley]

mod 15 would cycle when longer than 7 tiles/15 cars, since X mod Y is the reminder of X/Y
so what would happen here is that the diner car would always show up at the 5th car position (0-indexed)

[wind valley]

does nml let you get the length of the consist? if so then consist_length / 2 should work, but i'm not sure if that's a thing in nml (haven't used it enough to know)

[strange quiver]

I'd assume so, but I can't find one

[turbid bronze]

Controversial idea: make diners/end cars seperate vehicle ID’s 😎

[wind creek]

that stops you from doing automatic beautifying though

[strange quiver]

I don't need more vehicle variants 😦

[turbid bronze]

Don’t be silly ofcourse you do!

[strange quiver]

:((((

[wind creek]

num_vehs_in_consist?

or num_vehs_in_vehid_chain which if I'm reading this correctly only includes chains of the same vehicle

[strange quiver]

oooh, true

I'll give that a go I guess

not sure how I'd right it out though

since iirc you can only have a % or = or something

[vestal minnow]

Within napr, all the passenger cars are separate

Meaning coaches, diners, sleepers and observation cars are all independent and you have to buy them all separately

[strange quiver]

fair, that's the sort of thing I'm trying to avoid

I wanna try and keep it simple, like in NARS

[turbid bronze]

lmao considering what you've done with the trains I think that ship already sailed 😛

[strange quiver]

kind of simple!

idk

[signal gate]

Horse has separate dining cars because separate gameplay effect

rest of Horse pax stuff is auto-magic

but the auto-magic doesn't always do what's wanted

[strange quiver]

yeah, I was considering doing something similar with the diners, but I think it's better to just do the auto-magic

this set is already gonna have a lot of passenger cars, so adding more probably isn't a great idea

[signal gate]

it's hard to make the auto-magic reliable if it has to combine across multiple vehicles in the consist

it's good if there's just one ID to deal with

[strange quiver]

yeah

although I'm thinking if I just use "num_vehs_in_consist" it should do it regardless of the vehicle ids?

idk

[signal gate]

it's all good if you have continuous runs of pax cars

if someone sticks a mail car in the middle for example, then the magic gets a bit weird

depends how much you care if the magic can handle edge cases or not

[strange quiver]

I don't really, if the player wants to do something weird and goofy, it's what they get 🙂

[strange quiver]

I love metroliners

[strange quiver]

Metroliners :3

the green on the acela cafe car I'm not sure what to do with, since it feels like it should be cc2, but if I do that, then it's blue and red

I could just make it green though? but then you effectively lose a company colour

anyone got any thoughts?

[frosty sand]

3CC 😛

[strange quiver]

Guess I'll have to harass you to make that patch 🙂

[frosty sand]

What you might do here is define a contrasting colour which is selected automatically based on the player’s 2CC choice. Like, if they choose blue, then it’s green, if they choose pink it’s yellow, if they choose green it’s blue, etc.

I think pre-variants Horse did something like this at one point with automatic Railfreight liveries if the player selected grey and red, or something.

[signal gate]

yes, it was unwise

I now just use specific colour if I want a specific colour

[frosty sand]

In this case, is blue 1CC or 2CC?

[strange quiver]

blue is 1cc

[strange quiver]

could do that I suppose, but its extra code I guess

[signal gate]

if you want the green, just do the green

alternately, you can set up contrasting colours on recolour sprites

so the green changes with the CC

[strange quiver]

thats what I might just do tbh

[frosty sand]

That is easiest and probably best 😄

[strange quiver]

yeah

I'm taking the 'if you have a complaint, that's a you problem' approach

I should do some cursed/generic Amfleet liveries while I'm at it

I'm gonna do a via livery

they're a lot blander that I expected tbh

[frosty sand]

That’s a good approach 🙂

[vestal minnow]

Are they push pull trains?

[wind creek]

oh that's really cool

nice way to fake 3CC

[vestal minnow]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/C-kjSaRN82u/?igsh=MTc3M2toZzBsOWt0Zw==

Off topic as this is not where your project is based in but this is very interesting to see

Automated rail inspector

[strange quiver]

That thing is so goofy

[strange quiver]

Yee

[strange quiver]

Metroliners :3

I also adjusted the base costs to use the same ones as NARS, so now I need to go through and rebalance everything in GNAPS aaa

[turbid bronze]

\o/

Woo!

Definitely keen to play once the balance pass is done 🙂

[strange quiver]

:3333

I'll still need to the re-balance for GOPS at some point

I'll probably do that before I add the intercity EMUs

[signal gate]

FYI you can do 3CC or 4CC via a grf parameter

just remembered that

[strange quiver]

oh? wdym?

[signal gate]

it's crappy though

[vestal minnow]

Looking forward to seeing the full set!

[signal gate]

draw vehicle pixels using suitable ranges (136-143 and 40-47 are often good)

then recolour those ranges with recolour sprites

then have a parameter on the grf to select what colour is used

older Horse used to have something like this to set wagon colours

but now I just do this 😛

[strange quiver]

oh yh, I remember old horse having that

it kinda works, but it just wouldn't be the same

it's not ideal for multiplayer games

[signal gate]

yeah

[strange quiver]

it would be for bulk cargos like coal, wheat, bauxite, iron ore etc

[signal gate]

and it's not flexible

[strange quiver]

yeah, so I'll just put up with it

[signal gate]

I just added lots of colour variants instead 😛

[strange quiver]

that works >:)

[strange quiver]

also this is what you do for some cargos in horse right?

because I might copy that when I do freight wagons

[signal gate]

the Horse cargo recolouring is done at compile time

it's makes the compile slow, and the grf bigger in file size

but it's much much easier to test, because I just open the spritesheet and eyeball it

[strange quiver]

fair enough, I'll have to see how I want to do it when I get to it then

guess who just found out I didn't add running cost to the livery override section? 😎

aaa

[signal gate]

what even is livery override?

[strange quiver]

the callback below graphics that handles MU cars and stuff

also changes power and the like when you add a specified car

[signal gate]

I have always avoided it 🙂

[strange quiver]

tbh that's probably for the best 😦

[strange quiver]

aaaa

doing the GNAPS rebalance took a bit, but it should be good now

if anyone feels like giving it a go I'd appreciate the feedback

this version also has the metroliners and amfleets too

[strange quiver]

oh btw, does anyone have any metroliner livery ideas? I want more than just the Amtrak ones but I need ideas >:3

[strange quiver]

Metroliner Shinkansen

it also kinda works as a Via Rail livery

[mellow loom]

ICE white and red

[strange quiver]

sure

a 'what if' the Metroliner was sold on the export market

[mellow loom]

And were at least 50% faster

[strange quiver]

ICE Metroliner :3

[frosty sand]

Not exported, but painted to match the ICE on tour?

Actually, as an export, what about Canadian National?

[strange quiver]

por que no los dos?

[strange quiver]

sure

what would that even look like tho?

[frosty sand]

This livery, probably: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN_electric_multiple_unit

The MR-90 could have that livery too, if it doesn’t already

[strange quiver]

sure

tbh one of the issues with CN liveries is I normally do white/black not as a CC

[strange quiver]

I should probably do that tbh, it only has one livery atm anyway

[frosty sand]

For CN, I’d leave the black and white and make the red CC1

[strange quiver]

yeah, that's what I did for those MUs after all

it's just not super visible from the side view

[frosty sand]

Other possible Metroliner liveries: Illinois Central, South Shore Line

I am still stuck on “who had electrification IRL” 😦

Oh, for CN you could have white be a company colour, like you have with the Shinkansen livery

[strange quiver]

it doesn't neccesarily need to be people who electrified, it's only really railroads that had intercity passenger operations

which is why SSL probably wouldn't work

Illinois central might tho

[strange quiver]

I could, but I've already finished drawing it, and that's the precedent I've set anyway 😦

[frosty sand]

South Shore might be long enough to justify it. They don’t make any stops in Metra Electric territory

But it might also be a boring livery 🙂

(Or already possible with one of the other livery shapes, like Shinkansen)

I mean, if your criteria is “other intercity passenger railroads” you’re going to be mostly limited to Amtrak 😛

Could also do Rio Grande, Southern, and Rock Island, but they were not Amtrak holdouts for long

[strange quiver]

strange thing

[strange quiver]

it could work as a generic 'stripe' livery

although you could probably do it with one of the Amtrak liveries

kinda? it's just the front face plate that doesn't match

I should probably do the SSL EMUs soon-ish tho

[strange quiver]

I could...

problem is references, since none of those really operated EMUs

[frosty sand]

And none of them would

[strange quiver]

well, tbf, my stuff is meant to be in a goofy alternate universe where 'everything went right'

it's not an insane idea that they might buy high speed EMUs

[frosty sand]

Rio Grande only had the Zephyr I think, and didn’t want another railroad messing up their dispatching. Rock Island was too broke to pay the fee to join Amtrak, and Southern was too proud of the Crescent

[strange quiver]

how come the railroads with the best liveries are always the broke ones?

the NH&H was the same, stellar livery, but was so broke it became the unwanted step child of the Penn Central

[frosty sand]

Going a little more modern than the 70s, it would be cool to have liveries for Amtrak Cascades and Amtrak California. I could see both of those electrified in an alternate universe.

[strange quiver]

probably could, but you'd get something close to those with the base amtrak liveries

[frosty sand]

Another unpainted-sides livery, but the New Haven “washboard” EMUs had interesting ends: https://www.flickr.com/photos/72256627@N03/23835520293

[strange quiver]

it kinda works?

[frosty sand]

Of course, New Haven was gone when the metroliners came along…

Nice train crash 😛

[strange quiver]

maybe not in this universe :3

[strange quiver]

Ignore that :3

[strange quiver]

also the green and white one looks like a GO Transit livery, which is kind of cursed

the dark green in newcc isn't dark enough to do the proper cascades scheme seemingly 😦

[strange quiver]

might do this with a stripe down the side like on the M8s

[frosty sand]

Cascades needs brown as a livery element to be recognizable, I think

Also, what about C&NW? They had some long commuter trains and could have electrified. They even ran intercity trains with their bilevel cars

(You said you wanted ideas, I have ideas, but not necessarily good ones 😛 )

[strange quiver]

new haven kinda works

[frosty sand]

I like it

[strange quiver]

yeah, it's just hard to work out what to do since the cascades service always uses such unique rolling stock

so it doesn't translate well to more conventional stuff like the metroliner

[strange quiver]

true...

[strange quiver]

terrible ideas are my bread and butter >:)

[strange quiver]

you can kinda do it with the Shinkansen livery

tbh idk if a two tone livery like they had on their gallery cars would work

[frosty sand]

Here’s a render of the new Airo trains that might be a good start:

[strange quiver]

don't show me that, it'd only make me want to do them 😦

[frosty sand]

Like they weren’t on your list already 😛

[strange quiver]

lemme test it for the metroliner tho, since at the very least it'll make a good 'unique' livery

[strange quiver]

yeah, but for in future 😦

[frosty sand]

They’ll be there in the future 🙂

[strange quiver]

I know 😦

also

it kinda goes hard

[mellow loom]

Yeah that's the nice thing about doing a realistic-alike set - you can base it on real designs and then fill in the gaps as appropriate

It's the one thing that can be a little frustrating about a set like BRTrains unit choices - working out how to fill gameplay gaps while staying true to the realism goal. Obviously I can take a few artistic liberties (La Poste TGV which did technically run to St Pancras but not under it's own power) and throw in an easter egg or two (Royal Mail livery for it), but if I want a cargo tram or something then I'm far more limited on options unless I break the realism approach

[signal gate]

if it's a realism foamer set then best to just be true to that 🙂

[strange quiver]

yeah, that's one of the main reasons I didn't want to go down the 'realism' path

I want something that is realistic, but also fictional enough where I can fill in gaps for gameplay reasons

and where I have an excuse to build goofy unbuilt designs :3

which if you're doing a realism set, looking into unbuilt stuff is probably your best friend when it comes to filling gaps

[mellow loom]

Yeah it's a nice approach for a gameplay focus, especially for countries that don't naturally have as much variety to cover every niche

[strange quiver]

yeah, that's largely why I've had to do it for both of my sets

Australia has basically no passenger locomotives, and the US has barely any intercity MUs so aaa

[strange quiver]

oh btw, did you get a chance to take another look at this?

I'm having another go at it now and I still can't seem to crack it, swapping consist for vehid_chain and parent for self seems to do something close?

actually, I have an idea for why it's doing that...

[mellow loom]

I had another look and couldn't get much closer - I keep getting like 98% of the way and then it just wouldn't quite handle all use cases

It's definitely possible if you just define more edge cases (like I already was with 2, 3, 4 car units) but once you're doing it for more than those it seemed pointless

I think I'm just not algebra minded enough to figure it out - I've got the concept but get caught on the specifics

[strange quiver]

swapping position 0 for 1 didn't work :/

[strange quiver]

I suppose it's solace that I'm not the only one who can't crack it

it's annoying because it'd be perfect for AC units as is, I just need it to treat the actual trains as separate trains when coupled, and only run the MU code with the MU trailer

the most annoying part about doing EMUs is that there aren't many sets with Pantograph code that I can nick >:/

I suppose this is a good way to learn how it all works

[real sun]

Whilst you're on this topic, would it be alright if I use your code and sprites from GOPS? It's alright if not

[strange quiver]

for sure!

[real sun]

If I ever release it publicly you'd of course be credited

[strange quiver]

here's the latest source

[strange quiver]

that's fine, the license is CC-BY, so that's pretty much the only thing you're required to do

are you making a QR trains set or something?

[real sun]

Basically, there is already a QR newgrf floating around but it's fairly old

Not gonna do anything yet but mainly small sprite changes, locos, and filling in missing gaps like the ICE

[strange quiver]

fair fair, well lmk if you need any help

are you gonna do company colours? or irl colours for them btw?

[strange quiver]

I do plan on doing the ICE btw, it'll just come with the other intercity EMUs

[real sun]

The stuff I'm doing is mainly for my personal use so real life liveries, but if anyone is interested I'd be more than willing to do them up in cc colours, take these buses for example, when I've got a set I'm happy with I'd ask if anyone was interested in using them with cc colours

[strange quiver]

fair enough

I'm sure at some point someone will ask :3

also, went and had a look at the JP+ code, since the 151 series seems to match what I want, but that code is far, far too complex for the brain power I have atm

so I'm gonna work on something else

Pantograph code is the bane of my existance 😦

[mellow loom]

That's some nice work, are you releasing it GPLv2? I wouldn't mind some nice buses to steal from :p

[real sun]

Thanks, and would release it with a GPLv2 license, probably don't want to be taking my code though, too messy

[strange quiver]

might spice things up today and do these goofy 1850s era 12 wheel coaches

[strange quiver]

it kinda works

might remove the windows on the mail car, they look a bit goofy, and they don't seem to be too common on mail cars of this period

[signal gate]

make them black 😛

[strange quiver]

wdym?

[signal gate]

think NARS did it, or UKRS

[strange quiver]

I could try it

NARS seems to just make them a dark colour, which I guess helps to differentiate them

[strange quiver]

much better

goofy livery time

[strange quiver]

goofy liveries and cars

I've added a generic 1840s era mail/passenger car to match the existing ones in NARS

I want GNAPs passenger cars to really spice up the early part of the game, which feels really lacking with NARS atm

[civic ether]

hell yeah these are awesome

Brisbane bus rep lets go

[strange quiver]

the problem with early american stuff is they're all end platform cars, I'm hoping these are all visually distinctive enough?

I think they work, but I could cut some later

I'll have to see how they compare to the long distance cars

they're at least distinctive when compared to the 12 wheel coach

[strange quiver]

did the side loading cars that the Illinois Central used (no. 5) and they seem to contrast well

I think the difference is more noticeable in blue

the best thing about passenger cars is they take so little time to do so I can do a lot at once

so I might bash together all the pre 1940 cars over the next day or two, and then see how they balance against each other

[turbid bronze]

liveries time

more variants! \o/

[strange quiver]

I'll do them once I'm happy with the cars :3

I don't wanna do liveries until visually they're all distinct and balanced properly

[vestal minnow]

Are you adding steam engines to the roster?

[strange quiver]

no, this is more if you're playing with NARS and just want more variety

NARS's steam roster is already pretty good imo since there's not much I could add

[vestal minnow]

Ok

[strange quiver]

Budd...

need to draw trains, but too many trains to draw 😦

so this is interesting... it's a Budd design for an MBTA car based on the M3 Market-Frankford cars in Philly

but its designed with a pantograph in mind? which would indicate the blue line? but it's 70ft long, which is too long for the blue line? that's how long red line cars are iirc

https://rrmuseumpa.andornot.com/link/archives103032

[frosty sand]

Elevated would suggest Orange Line, and the pantograph says future — I don’t know what exactly they have in mind for that but there have been plenty of Orange Line extension proposals, including truncating commuter rail lines from the suburbs at the inner beltway (Route 128) with the inner suburban tracks being taken over by subway trains, and a takeover of the Needham commuter rail line by the Orange Line.

It is definitely too long for the Blue Line — those cars are limited in length by the Bowdoin loop. Orange and Red Line cars are about the same length but Red is wider.

[strange quiver]

I feel like I should have noticed the elevated bit 😦

they're also the perfect with of 9ft 6in for the orange line too

[frosty sand]

I would go darker on the clerestory windows. You generally can’t see the glass, there’s a screen in the way to keep bugs out (because the clerestory windows open for ventilation)

[strange quiver]

still, that feels weird?

and even if you did that, wouldn't you just run a third rail? why add an overhead line or something for it?

[strange quiver]

I'll give that a go then

[frosty sand]

Good stuff with the vestibule passenger cars too — I remember seeing ads touting the vestibule cars as safer and more comfortable than the older open-platform cars 🙂

[strange quiver]

this just makes it sound like you're over 100 years old 🙂

[frosty sand]

Oops, gave myself away

[strange quiver]

oh no 😦

[strange quiver]

oh btw this is going in GNARTS when I redo it btw

I need my goofy M3 derived cars

[frosty sand]

No idea, just speculating on why they’d want a pantograph in the future 🙂

At one point the el cars ran through what are now the Green Line tunnels from Boylston to Haymarket. They did not share tracks so they must have installed third rail. Still, another potential reason to ask the manufacturer about pantograph support? Dunno. (That was probably decades before these cars were proposed)

[strange quiver]

maybe? these cars I'm guessing were drawn up around the early 70s

actually, what orange line cars were ordered around then

okay so the orange line bought two batches, one from Pullman in the 50s, and Hawker Siddely in the 80s

which is even weirder, because these cars are clearly based on the M-3s from 1960

so I'd assume they were probably drawn up around then?

so I'm guessing those timelines not adding up means they were designed for an extension to the orange line in the 60s, that potentially would have used a pantograph

[mellow loom]

How do those look in game? They look nice in the purchase list and I need to do some end platform stuff for London Undeground Gate Stock, so I might do a little stealing

[strange quiver]

I think they look good :3

here's the source and grf if you wanna poke around

[mellow loom]

tyty

[strange quiver]

the best part about doing so much research for my goofy train set is that I can realise my mistakes

At the head of that train is a GG1, followed by a Pioneer III, and then the power van of a Keystone Cars

I'm doing the pioneer III passenger cars atm, and the good news is I can probably re-use them to improve on the Keystone sprites

down side is I might need to redo the Silverliner I sprites

They even show the height difference in this technichal drawing, comparing a proposed Pioneer III DMU to a normal RDC

[strange quiver]

PioneerIIIs done

and in Amtrak liveries

IRL no one bought the passenger car version, but in an altnernate universe where they did, it's pretty easy to imagine they would have made it into Amtraks hands

Amtrak got the Keystones after all

also I could imagine they would have been around for a while, since they were equipped with HEP

[strange quiver]

redid the keystone cars based on the Pioneer III sprite

I also did them in Amtrak colours too :3

I might actually change up the windows tho, since they're kinda hard to spot

it makes a noticeable difference, so I'll switch it over

[signal gate]

PGT means I don’t need to Moose? 👀

[strange quiver]

nono, you need to moose

[signal gate]

Freight cars only?

[strange quiver]

well I do wanna do my own freight cars at some point

I just need to do more research first

I need to find and get in contact with someone who's knowledgable about their development, because freight cars are a pain to research 😦

[signal gate]

PGT is global?

[mellow loom]

There are a couple of sets I think? PGT is an umbrella and then there’s like “generic Asian trains” or something. Might have misinterpreted that though

[strange quiver]

Pgt is dead

It was meant to be an Australian style iron horse, but its dead now :3

And I have taken over its forum for my nefarious purposes >:333

[strange quiver]

there's a guy posting to twitter about GMs failure to get into the UK market back in the 50s

https://x.com/VoughtSikorsky/status/1824833243658821679

Vought Sikorsky (@VoughtSikorsky) on X

The narrative persists that the BTC chose UK diesels over US builds for ideological means, yet reality says otherwise. GM's reluctance to licensing agreements & dollar spending restrictions due to import duties was the death knell, with GM all too late licensing Leyland in 1958.

Twitter · Aug 17, 2024, 3:38 PM

and it kinda makes me wanna do an alternate UK set where GM was successful

I wanna see a british F unit :3

tbh the BR in that universe would probably have just bought something resembling a B class

[mellow loom]

Also in this universe....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_DP1

[strange quiver]

A B class with a deltics engine would be cursed

[mellow loom]

The styling compared to this though, almost identical really

Or this. Very much the same basic design

[strange quiver]

Yeah, well the B class was based on the F7 (the loco in that pic)

Idk where the styling for the deltics came from, but I could imagine they looked at F Units

[mellow loom]

Apparently not a coincidence, the Deltic/DP1 was potentially going to be exported to the US (or at least tried to)

[strange quiver]

Dont you tell me that! >:///

[mellow loom]

"Inspired by" the E-Units apparently
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_E-unit

So yeah, all broadly the same design language

[strange quiver]

Tbf later E units had the same cab

[mellow loom]

DP1 looks much nicer than the production Deltics (Class 55)

[strange quiver]

Yeah, the nose light helps keep things together

[mellow loom]

Plus the curve. And one of the few locomotives where IMO the yellow warning panel doesn't look nice

[strange quiver]

I'm at the metro opening today, so I can't atm. But I'm tempted to do the B class tonight and put it in a BR livery just to see what it looks like

[strange quiver]

Yeah :/

[signal gate]

Irish Rail (CIE)

[strange quiver]

True

[vestal minnow]

What train is this?

[strange quiver]

Bangladesh class MA1 iirc?

[vestal minnow]

Ah ok

Would be interesting to see these overseas

[strange quiver]

Well I plan on putting them in an export pack at some point

Its just a future thing once I've done the Oceanian loco pack

[signal gate]

I had to extend Horse to include CIE, to get enough tech tree 🙂

[untold viper]

Omg VR hi!

[vestal minnow]

https://youtu.be/3ciB5XgjLu0?si=ZYBzaRBHZMc6RnIr

[strange quiver]

Im there rn actually

Just heading home

[vestal minnow]

Ooh

Celebrating the opening

[strange quiver]

Just checking it out

Its neat

Its also awkward because I got recognized a few times by people who watch my videos aaaa

[vestal minnow]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/C-1UKbcyXGa/?igsh=YWxlYnVpeDNuNWMy

I know this is a satire page

[strange quiver]

Oh no :3

[strange quiver]

managed to get my hands on the specification for the superliner replacement, and turns out they plan on including a 'utility car' with a gun locker

because of course they do

this doc is still confidential, but I'm kinda tempted to put them into GNAPs solely because I think having a trainset in a game before its even announced would be funny

ok nvm, turns out it has been announced, but the technichal specs haven't been announced

[wind creek]

that's the most American thing I've ever heard

[strange quiver]

yeah...

American moment

also, turns out these new cars will have the skylights in the coach cars, similar to what they have in the current Superliner Lounge cars

[vestal minnow]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/reel/C-3zHmmS4sk/?igsh=YmxxaThjY3h1M3M4

[strange quiver]

I need to do those at some point

[vestal minnow]

Yes

The gf6c locomotives only used briefly on one line in northeast bc

[strange quiver]

yeeee

[strange quiver]

"do the Budd Hi-levels, that won't take long" >:////

these were so annoying because each car type was slightly different

[strange quiver]

Hi-Levels done :3

[strange quiver]

so I wanna do more cars based on these Budd designs for CN, but I think they might need some fudging

I don't think they were designed neccesarily to go together, since the coachs and diners inter-car doors are at different heights

but... CN never really operated double deckers, so idk why they'd want high level doors?

unless they were planning on ordering some hi-levels and I'm just not aware of it

it's also weird because the coach is designed for hi-level platforms, but CN never really had any?

I think there's fold out steps but its hard to tell

either way, I'm bodging something together because I think it would be cool

okay seems like there was an alternate design with a walk around lower level, which I'll do

there was also this version which tapered down at the ends, which I'm guessing was for it to work with normal single level stock

[strange quiver]

actually, I have something cool that I might work this into at a later date...

[frosty sand]

That last one just looks like a full-length dome car rather than a double decker car

[strange quiver]

I guess that's kinda what it is

also while it's relevant, how should I do stuff like observation cars?

I was thinking of doing them as separate cars that you can add to a train for a bonus, but now I'm thinking that I should just have them added automatically, like in NARS

[strange quiver]

Skyviews done :3

turns out Via planned to use a livery very similar to Amtrak PHII for their Superliners when they were considering buying them, so that simplifies things on my end

[mellow loom]

Needs more shading on the yellow I think

Oh, of the locomotive that is. Coaches look good

[strange quiver]

you're not wrong

thankfully I haven't done all the SDP40F liveries 😦

[wind creek]

@strange quiver where do you get all your old speculative drawings of locomotives and carriages?

[vestal minnow]

Yes I’m curious

I wonder why via never got these coaches?

Would be nice for the Canadian

[strange quiver]

it depends, for american stuff it's a combination of the RR museum of PA's archives and forums

for Australian stuff, it's the NSW State archives and my irl book collection

[strange quiver]

probably lack of budget

[finite mountain]

I wish VIA Rail had superliners

But maybe when via rail gets its new rolling stock order, we might get some cars similar to the superliners where there is 2 levels to each car

[strange quiver]

maybe, but to my knowledge the new Via order is for Airos

they're doing it with Amtrak

[strange quiver]

also it comes from finding weird stuff when searching for stuff I know about

ie I just found out about these weird pullman standard cars

apparently they were built in 1949 by Pullman standard

[steep echo]

that loco on the left looks kinda familiar xd

[strange quiver]

oh know, American Danish railways :3

It's meant to be canadian national 😦

[steep echo]

ohh

idk about north american stuff tbh, i'd recognise the purple santa fe trains but that's it

[strange quiver]

the purple santa fe trains?

[steep echo]

yeah aint some of them in a purple livery?

[strange quiver]

don't think so?

[steep echo]

i could be misremembering

but i swear they were like purple with gold writing

[strange quiver]

are you thinking of these?

[steep echo]

nah newer

something SD (all american modern trains look the same to me) maybe sd40 or sd70

newer as in post 50s at least

[strange quiver]

fair, well I can't think of anything like that :/

[steep echo]

i misremembered

but i meant this

[strange quiver]

oh you goober

yh Santa fe used that for all their secondary stuff

if it was for passenger trains or high speed freight, they got warbonnet

otherwise it was the normal yellow bonnet

[mellow loom]

You're not thinking of the Golden Chariot trains from India, are you?

They're purple with gold writing

The locomotives are too but I can't find a decent picture without some kind of "launch ceremony" flowers all over it

Very similar style from some angles

[steep echo]

Nah

[strange quiver]

I'm kinda stumped for stuff to do

is there any North American or Australian stuff that anyone wants drawn?

otherwise I think today's work is gonna be researching american freight cars to get that roster sussed out

[strange quiver]

instead I actually went and researched Australian/NZ goods wagons

one thing I've noticed is that uniquely, VR seems to have had a preference towards 4 wheel wagons, sorta like the UK and Europe

it's just weird seeing 4 wheel wagons behind big GM style diesels

Kinda makes me wanna write a roster for what that alternate BR but with GM locomotives roster that I mentioned the other day

could be a fun project

also these 70s era VR grain hoppers go hard

idk why they had spoked wheels though, VR must have just been weird

I think I'm getting bitten by the Australian rolling stock bug again 😦

so I might what I've done in GNAPS/GNALP so far and post them to Bananas and then work on GOPS again

[turbid bronze]

balance pass gops plez

[strange quiver]

I will!

I was thinking of doing that today actually

I might get to it tomorrow or this weekend tbh

Conversion therapy hopper 😦

XGAY 😦

[untold viper]

V/Line passenger carriages? 😳

[strange quiver]

yes 😦

I need to finally get around to doing them

[untold viper]

https://tenor.com/view/vline-n-class-gif-21951485

[strange quiver]

and probably start on Australian locomotives

[strange quiver]

I'll do those N types soon >:3

[untold viper]

https://tenor.com/view/based-uh-hello-based-department-based-department-american-psycho-patrick-bateman-gif-22458382

[crystal crag]

oh btw Ragin, how are you determining Tractive Effort Coefficient? I'm not sure if specific numbers matter to you, but I think I gave you a formula for it at some point and that one turns out to be wrong

[strange quiver]

I'm just using 0.3

I'm not bothering with doing anything fancy with it, it's not too important anyway

[crystal crag]

/me nodnods

why does /me sometimes work and sometimes not...

Anyway that's fine

I recall talking with you about the [target] / 10 / [weight] thing at one point

[strange quiver]

don't ask me, idek what that command does :3

[crystal crag]

it makes things italicized :3

[strange quiver]

yeah, tbh most of that was because I assumed you put a value in to get the TE, and that the code didn't have a coefficient that it worked off of

just putting it at 0.3 works fine now anyway

[strange quiver]

fancy :3

[crystal crag]

Ya, if you have a super-specific TE value you want, the formula to figure out the coefficient is apparently [Target TE] / 9.8 / Weight (Metric Tons), but if you're not going for specific numbers, it's no problem

[strange quiver]

I'll keep that in mind if I ever need to do it

but yh, for now I'm find with a basic number :3

[strange quiver]

also, any chance you have an idea as to why that running cost livery override I posted about in addon development isn't working?

I'm genuinely stumped

[crystal crag]

I'll take a look at it in a moment after I do a bit of code on my end, but I've not touched running cost stuffs myself so I can't promise anything

[strange quiver]

perfect, thanks for the help :3

I stg it's gonna be like one line and it'll work perfectly

that seems to be what it is a fair portion of the time

[crystal crag]

Do a quick test to see what happens if running cost factor is not 0 by default for the MU wagons

[strange quiver]

I tried that earlier and it did nothing 😦

[crystal crag]

you don't define running_cost_base for any of your things, right?

[strange quiver]

I do

[crystal crag]

do you define it for the MU?

your text snippet cuts off so I can't tell

[strange quiver]

here's what the normal MU code looks like

discord won't let me send the text without nitro >:/

[crystal crag]

can you copy-paste the running_cost_base section to the MU trailer, and set the standard running_cost_factor to 1

[strange quiver]

spriteset(spriteset_MU_purchase, "gfx/El_MUDC.png") {template_purchase(7, 21)}
spriteset(spriteset_MU_trailer, "gfx/El_MUDC.png") {template_7(7, 89)}

//Vehicle
item (FEAT_TRAINS, Item_MU_Trailer) {
property {
sprite_id: SPRITE_ID_NEW_TRAIN;
refit_cost: 0;
climates_available: ALL_CLIMATES;
bitmask_vehicle_info: 0;
misc_flags: bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_2CC, TRAIN_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK); // <- Train Flag MU needed here

    track_type:                        RAIL;
    ai_special_flag:                AI_FLAG_PASSENGER;

    name:                            string(STR_MU_TRAILER);
    introduction_date:                date(1890,1,1);
    vehicle_life:                     30;
    model_life:                        36;
    length:                            7;

    weight:                         0 ton;
    speed:                            0 mph;
    cost_factor:                     100;
    running_cost_factor:             10;

    refittable_cargo_classes:        bitmask();
    default_cargo_type:                PASS;
    cargo_capacity:                    100;
    loading_speed: 30;

}
graphics {
    default:                        spriteset_MU_trailer;
    purchase:                        spriteset_MU_purchase;
    additional_text: string(STR_MU_TRAILER_INFO);

}
}

oh god I see now

[crystal crag]

because I know that, for example, if you don't define a loading speed, it does NOT default to something, so i'm wondering that if you don't define a running cost base, does a wagon not get running costs or something

I doubt that's it, but

[strange quiver]

annoyingly, that seems to be it >:/

[crystal crag]

and if you mess with the running_cost_factor of the MU coach, does the output value still stay the same for if you put it in the MU

like, make sure we're not just getting the default MU Coach running cost coming through

[strange quiver]

yeah, it seems to be based on the livery override now

annoyingly, now that it seems to be working, I have to go fix a bunch of balancing things aaa

[crystal crag]

Best of luck

I'm adding some code to my set to make passenger wagons look proper

and I've got the urge to try and bully a class 37 into an A/B Unit formation for a cursed addon

[strange quiver]

have fun!

[strange quiver]

I am boeing to die 😦

I'm gonna get a meat pie and just get to it I suppose

[strange quiver]

you better show me when you're done!

[crystal crag]

I have a bunch of side-view mockups somewhere

it's the other angles that are gonna be a pain

[strange quiver]

show me if you can find them >:3

[strange quiver]

yh, but you gotta do them 😦

[crystal crag]

probably gonna get one of the mail vans as a template for the rear half and the B unit

[strange quiver]

it works :3

[strange quiver]

oh god those are goofy

[crystal crag]

c:

Got a bunch of A/B units, a bunch of articulated ones, a small handful of real-world stuffs on the far right, some steam engine stuffs on the bottom left, and a "Stadler GTW but it's a Class 101" on the bottom right

[strange quiver]

pretty sure that's just a Walker rail motor :3

[crystal crag]

looks about right. If I somehow get it included I'll nickname it the walker

for now, I got gangways on passenger coaches in properly

now the front and rear of a passenger consist properly show the close doors/buffers and the ones in-between show their gangways, even if you mix Mk5's, Mk1's, Pullman Coaches and TPO vans together

and got around to actually reserving numeric ideas for things

I've got it set up so that every train has room for 30 variants, but that might not be enough for some of them.

glances at the Class 37, which has 7 variants, each with at least one livery variant, and most likely more

[signal gate]

just consume 60 in that case

Horse has blocks of 10 and a thing that checks for colliding IDs

[strange quiver]

sure, VR is basically just weird British Rail anyway

[crystal crag]

I mean, I can do that, then I'd have up to ID 14320 out of 65000 reserved (I put a gap of 100 IDs between my last Engine and first Wagon, just in case I add more Engines)

[strange quiver]

how do you assign ids to wagons?

I tried doing that and it just made it a locomotive, so I assumed it wasn't something you could do

[crystal crag]

Then you're probably doing something wrong somewhere, currently on mobile for lunch but like, I just add a number behind the name ID

[strange quiver]

lemme check because I must be

okay apprently yh, that's the case

idk what I broke before so aaa

goober moment

[frosty sand]

* zipping my fat mouth so you make freight cars and I can stop bugging Andy about Iron Moose *

[turbid bronze]

yup, let ragin cook

[strange quiver]

Ya'll are gonna be so dissapointed if I actually get a job :3

[frosty sand]

I knew you'd approve 😉

[turbid bronze]

somewhat 😛

[frosty sand]

If you get a job we'll crowdfund you to quit it and make trains instead 😛

[turbid bronze]

it slowed me down a bit

that said, I have my weekends where I crank out a heap in one go

which will, hopefully, be this weekend and I'll get a chunk of the simcity4 buildings coded.

[frosty sand]

I used to get up at 5 to get in a couple hours of hobby time before work

[strange quiver]

sure :3

although I suppose good news, jobs in my field are typically 35 hour work weeks anyway

so I'd have more days off than normal

[strange quiver]

I couldn't do that, I like sleeping in 😦

[mellow loom]

I assign IDs to everything

As far as I can tell it's the lack/presence of a power: property that makes it a wagon or not

[mellow loom]

Man imagine if TTD Developer/newGRF developer was a paid job?

[strange quiver]

yeah, that seems to be the case

at least I know that now before I do a buttload of passenger carriages

[mellow loom]

Although if you assign a wagon to a variant group of a unit with power then it jumps to the non-wagon side of JGRPP's UI (not sure if it makes any differences in Vanilla)

[strange quiver]

seems to be a base game thing too

Andy does it with some of the trains in iron horse

[signal gate]

no I mean just consume 2 blocks of IDs 🙂

Horse allocates in blocks of 10

but some wagons use nearly 30 IDs

so that just uses 3 blocks

I have collision detection and I just move IDs out of the colliding range

it means a savegame bump but eh

but I'd be surprised about you folks getting through all your IDs...so alternately allocating 60 or 100 per vehicle might work

my average production rate for Horse is 2 vehicles per day for the last few years

Horse is at 7702 actual IDs used

and I have high levels of automation

[cold scarab]

Variant groups can use name ids instead of numeric ids right?

[signal gate]

I doubt you're going to expire 65k IDs, and if you do, you can always shrink some unused blocks

[crystal crag]

That's basically what I'm doing now, 1 to 20000 is for locomotives, and anything beyond that is wagons. I strongly doubt I'll use up most of those, but it's nice to have some ranges where I can now know "Okay, anything within this range will be X for the foreseeable future"

[signal gate]

ultimately savegame bumps happen

[mellow loom]

Yes (I didn't know they could use numeric IDs tbf - I exclusively use the name)

[crystal crag]

@strange quiver did you happen to have code for "check if this wagon is right in the middle-ish of a consist to apply a different sprite"? I vaguely recall seeing you have a convo about that

[strange quiver]

yee, I talked to gwyd about it

lemme grab it

it's 'sw_Budd_HiLevel_dinerposition'

0..1 is in the middle

2..3 is the car in front

it's very straightforward

[crystal crag]

perfect, thanks

[strange quiver]

nw

[strange quiver]

also, my one request for UKRS is to have a parameter that controls capacities!

ideally I'd like one that doubles passenger trains

[crystal crag]

Yes, that's planned

[strange quiver]

good good, then I don't have to pester you about it >:3

[strange quiver]

aaaa

todays a productive day

gonna:
- rebalance GOPS

• draw an N class and get the base code for the Australian loco pack ready
• Draw some carriages to go with it (probably the VR N types)
• Shore up what I have with GNAPS/GNALP and post them to Bananas

I had some emails to shoot off for footage/usage rights for videos, but I've done them already

[turbid bronze]

\o/

[strange quiver]

okay, good news, apparently when balancing GOPS, I based it off NARS for the DMUs, but for some reason I just didn't do it for the EMUs?

[turbid bronze]

Yup that tracks

it was the EMU costing that looked wacky to me, DMU costings didn't look too bad.

[strange quiver]

makes things easier on my end, since now I only need to mess with their livery overrides

genuinely no idea why I didn't just copy NARS tho

[strange quiver]

aaa

much better now

@turbid bronze if you wanna take a look, I'd appreciate your feedback 🙂

balance should be good now, and I even found a fat finger mistake

the double deck AUPT was set to gain 3600hp with each MU carriage instead of 360

[strange quiver]

Alright, so now it's N class time

Also I might re-do some of the GOPS sprites in the near future, the early DMUs like the Kathleen and CPH are just bad

I might also add some of the weird early ones from SA and stuff

[turbid bronze]

I don't know if there's realistically any way around this but it's one thing I hate about loading multiple sets in OTTD.

Also they have different running costs (GNAPS is stuffed)

[signal gate]

is it left-alignment?

[turbid bronze]

No, 'multiple unit trailers'

[signal gate]

what's the dislike? 🙂

[turbid bronze]

I do like these pixels though

[turbid bronze]

stuff like this for instance:

[strange quiver]

tbf that's because I'm a goober and haven't created separate MU car sprites for all my sets

I should probably do that at some point tbh

[turbid bronze]

Love it

[strange quiver]

it's true tho 🙂

last day of the Toronto line, a guy started punching the train and he got arrested

[signal gate]

just reuse the motor car sprites?

make unpowered version, add as variant

[strange quiver]

I could, but I just prefer the MU car style that NARS and all that have

[turbid bronze]

well, that was only really a NARS addon thing

[strange quiver]

true

[turbid bronze]

NARS itself never did that I don't think

[strange quiver]

normal NARS kinda did it

it's just the normal passenger cars could be used as the MU cars in that set

it's not something I could do for my sets tho because I'm being a lot more specific with passenger cars when compared to normal NARS

[turbid bronze]

Yeah they had normal passenger car and bilevel and the nippon sharyo for instance reject anything that wasn't a bilevel

Atleast throwing that error in might be worth while. Maybe list them as 'Multiple Unit Trailer (GOPS)' or something.

and throw an error if you attach anything other than that.

[strange quiver]

that's probably what I'll do

that and give it a separate sprite so its clear what set it's an MU car for

[turbid bronze]

ehhhhhhhhhhh

not a fan of that

[strange quiver]

main reason I haven't is I just haven't had an idea for what sprite to do

[turbid bronze]

hate those silly little symbols

Maybe make the sprite default to the first appearance possible for each set

so they look different as well

[strange quiver]

that could work?

I might give it a test later and see

[crystal crag]

For my set I basically just have a "MU Carriage" that fits onto any multiple unit

Rather than specific MU Cars for different MUs

[turbid bronze]

Yeah my gripe was loading both GOPS and GNAPS having two MU cars that look the same and have the same name

well, having two at all

or any

mu's in ottd are weird

[crystal crag]

I prefer this option over how UKRS did it because it was unclear which ones wanted regular wagons and which express wagons, and since I have multiple options for passenger wagons between time I can't just have the "default" passenger carriage do it

[turbid bronze]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA COMENG 2000's

AND 3000's

I can larp as my home town

[strange quiver]

oh god you're from adelaide 😦

[crystal crag]

I was/am tempted to add 'fixed length variants' to MUs so you could also buy them in predetermined lengths but I'd run into ID issues quick