#battlefield-legacy-titles

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cinder merlin
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depends how u like it

solid hinge
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something something spammy gameplay

jade lodge
#

it's gameplay im more concerned about

idle breach
#

Power doesnt even matters lmao

cinder merlin
#

ye

upper vault
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More players does not mean spammy gameplay

solid hinge
#

Heard next gen GPUs are gonna be around the 5700XT ๐Ÿ‘€

#

despite the entire community liking fucking metro 64 players

upper vault
#

Make the map huge, add more players

cinder merlin
#

ye tru

solid hinge
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like 128 players on something like bandar would be worth it

#

I dont know why people have an issue with more players

cinder merlin
#

they will likely do that

upper vault
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They could even add a map bigger than Bandar

solid hinge
#

Its not like Dice is stupid enough to completely throw away 64p Conquest

#

not that but you can do more with 128 players

kind yacht
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DICE have said several times they're not really interested in going above 64p

cinder merlin
#

considering there counterpart also has 64 player gamemodes in cod mw, its not good compared to battlefield. But DICE had always had the number advantage on their engine

solid hinge
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double the tanks, double the airspace

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double the vehicles

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and if you want that epic battle feel

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then it can be finally be done

upper vault
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But it seems that DICE is now interested going above 64p

kind yacht
#

Seems

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But let's wait

idle breach
#

Entire online mmo industry during 2000s tested out more players in bigger map.

And people decided it's not really good not because lack of tech.

kind yacht
#

What they showed was very vague

ionic thorn
#

Y'all see that building getting destroyed ๐Ÿ‘€

cinder merlin
#

only thing i take from that teaser is there thinking to increase the player count

#

next gen, new innovations

solid hinge
#

64p was impressive this gen dont get me wrong but I want to see some innovation HowdyTriumph

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those are MMOs

kind yacht
#

And on a single color surface with no colors, no vehicles, and no map assets I'm sure they can have 120 players

solid hinge
#

which has far more than 128p

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Another player jump would be beautiful to sell

kind yacht
#

but in an actual game...

jade lodge
#

i think if they was going to increase they'd only do so slightly but idk

kind yacht
#

let's wait

ionic thorn
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Didn't BF3 test 300 people lmao

solid hinge
#

it was 128

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for BF3

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only on PC and the servers were cracked or something

idle breach
#

yeah. mmorpg and mmofps games

cinder merlin
#

also i wont be surprised if they add battle royale to bf6 as well

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considering warzone success

solid hinge
#

it works perfectly well with planetside 2

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and ww2 online

idle breach
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if you really think it worked well in planetside 1/2 eh

#

eh

jade lodge
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lol

solid hinge
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I mean yeah

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i'm a long time ps2 player

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Planetside 2 maps didnt work all too well with the larger player counts

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Those biolabs like damnnn

idle breach
#

is it worth it

solid hinge
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biolabs are an exception

uneven oxide
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canโ€™t believe they teased battlefield but then announced skate

solid hinge
#

but that was working with counts far larger than what 128 p is demanding

#

Hello please

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128p for BF sounds pretty neat

idle breach
#

we need some fucking innovations in behavior science not computer engineering to make something like 100v100 interesting

solid hinge
#

What's unlock at level rush 50

idle breach
#

even in 32v32 without careful design it's just something like 10v4 with 40 people literally sungazing all the round

floral blade
#

Oh god Iโ€™m imagining like a 128 man clusterfuck map like locker or metro

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๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

idle breach
#

running around in middle of fuck nowhere in hamada like some newborn deer without parents

#

it's more like about players per space, not just pumping up the playercount in a server

mint marsh
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Im trying to get the g18 in bf4 but the handguns are so hard to get kills with

noble field
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Battlefield couldnโ€™t even add Russians

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Fucking lame

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Ww2?

solid hinge
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Please tell me

fossil heron
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There should be a turring test before being able to get into servers for the next game

floral blade
#

Pop a 200% boost on top of the constant 200% boost they give us seemingly everyday @mint marsh

idle breach
#

and with some populated density, if the map gets bigger like "slightly big battlefield sized map" it's just spam paradise

floral blade
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Find a locker server and go grind

solid hinge
#

What's unlock on level 50 rush level battle field one

fossil heron
#

Wut

solid hinge
#

Very sorru

jade lodge
#

speak american KKonaW

idle breach
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@noble field russians doesn't existed in WW2. it's putin's propaganda get your history straight

fossil heron
idle breach
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bf1?

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i can't really remember

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i liked uh

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forgot the name

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fucker hill rifle

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oh the assualt

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assault

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the first one

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sjorgren shotgun and model 10 hunter

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thought it was not level unlocked gun but some assignment

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lvl1 smg mp18 was pretty balanced

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japan didnt used shotgun

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they didnt got civilian firearm industry/market, and japanese hunters used just rifles mostly

mint marsh
#

I think alot of people's relatives fought in one of the world wars

idle breach
#

my grandpa was running around from battle

vestal yew
#

My grandpa used mg 42s on normandy

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It's a joke

idle breach
#

i got pretty rare unit patch.

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south korean army munitions command

fossil heron
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Any new weekly mode?

vestal yew
#

P 51d is my spirit animal

idle breach
#

belle delphine is my spirit animal

vestal yew
#

Lol

fossil heron
#

Mycherrycrush>belle delphine

solid hinge
#

my great grandfather fought during the malay campaign

idle breach
#

nah belle is true gangsta

fossil heron
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Belle isnt gangsta

idle breach
#

no the madlass with genius business plan and

vestal yew
#

I hate belle

fossil heron
#

She's just dumb lol

idle breach
#

can force justice to someone stealing her hamster

fossil heron
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@warm crag better than belles

idle breach
#

you pain your enemy's car

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paint

fossil heron
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Exactly

idle breach
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to prove your point

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that's the true gangsta way

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lmao

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oh

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how's it going there

cold trail
#

!!r1

ruby trailBOT
#

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vestal yew
idle breach
#

i love this

vestal yew
idle breach
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ooh

vestal yew
#

?

cold trail
#

Take it to #general and lets keep it off politics.

vestal yew
cold trail
#

You're off-topic, take it to #general. Thanks.

idle breach
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@solid hinge battlefield talk only. no battle field talk in #general

solid hinge
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Wiat

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Did they actually tease bf6

cold trail
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np

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@warm crag Last warning.

novel blaze
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they did tease it @solid hinge

solid hinge
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What was it?

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Was it modern?

vestal yew
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Vietnam

tight rain
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OwO

novel blaze
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it wasnt really a tease@solid hinge

jade lodge
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They were more than likely bfv place holders

novel blaze
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they showed ww2 soldiers pre rendered to show a point

solid hinge
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Wiat do we actually know what it is?

novel blaze
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what does "next gen" illustrates 120 player count?

vestal yew
#

I love the smell of napalm in the mornin

solid hinge
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Wait do we know what bf6 is going to be?

jade lodge
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Not really

vestal yew
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Vietnam

solid hinge
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Was anything about bf6 revealed at eaplay

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Please not vietnam

zinc inlet
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Just joined this discord. Could anyone help me get down the elevator on Hangar 21?

vestal yew
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Please Vietnam

jade lodge
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Modern I'd guess. Can't see them not doing that since basically everyone wants modern. Who knows though.

vestal yew
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I don't like modern bf

surreal stream
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honestly me neither

vestal yew
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Unless apaches are playable

jade lodge
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I prefer modern my self but each to their own

vestal yew
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Then I'm all for it

surreal stream
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id be fine with modern if they removed the jets and lock ons

vestal yew
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Lock on rocket launchers = cheating

surreal stream
#

agreed

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but if they removed lock ons they would essentially have to remove the jets

jade lodge
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I think lock ons are needed for tanks and what not

surreal stream
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or add stationary AA emplacements

vestal yew
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But machine gun

idle breach
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apache is just overpriced mi24

vestal yew
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No

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Apache = god

idle breach
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mi24 the best helicopter

vestal yew
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No

jade lodge
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Transport chopper best :)

idle breach
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apache is like how much, about 5 mi24 worth?

solid hinge
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no lock ons are cheating

vestal yew
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Communist!

solid hinge
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you MUST be able to shoot a heli down with a non-lock on launcher

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otherwise you're a weak bf player

vestal yew
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Murica

jade lodge
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If you're not taking out a heli with your c100 knife then you're a weak asf bf player :)

vestal yew
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Yes

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You must shoot down a10 with glock

jade lodge
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No. Must be mares leg lol

vestal yew
#

Wot

tight rain
#

The mares leg is quite an interesting gun

vestal yew
#

Wut

jade lodge
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Google it @vestal yew :)

vestal yew
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Sorry I'm a Pilot person

jade lodge
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I am a Tanker person :D

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I shoot Heli down with tank :)

vestal yew
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Me also sometimes m1a1 Abrams is my spirit animal

clear rain
vestal yew
#

?

jade lodge
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I like the T-90

vestal yew
#

Commie

clear rain
idle breach
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t90 is post-commie era tank

vestal yew
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Don't care

idle breach
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but

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mother still loves you, dread.

rocky verge
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Down a A10 with a glock?

vestal yew
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My fursona is the a10

rocky verge
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Yes a 9mm bullet can kill a A-10

idle breach
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a10 is just overpriced su25

rocky verge
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Yeah

vestal yew
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Communists

idle breach
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no

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but mother still loves you dread

jade lodge
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I'm not D:

rocky verge
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No I am murican brother

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You are the communist

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Spy

vestal yew
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How dare you

jade lodge
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T-90 in bf4 was the best tank to go for tho imo

idle breach
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its okay dread

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mother still loves you

rocky verge
vestal yew
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I will give it em the mi 28 is cool

idle breach
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yes it's mother's secret

deep forge
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Germans had style

idle breach
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i mean

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not really a secret but

deep forge
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especially the officers

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they look sharp

vestal yew
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I love the German tiger like the heli

idle breach
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all those fancy uniforms won't help when mother kicks their asses

vestal yew
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Hanz why

idle breach
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you have horses hans

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what are you thinking

vestal yew
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Cool

idle breach
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dress uniforms were acted as dresswear in many european countries

vestal yew
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I think every family in America must marry with a m1a1 abrams

rocky verge
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I think every family in America must marry with a m1a1 abrams
@vestal yew but I like Germanys Leo 2A5

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Over the abrams

vestal yew
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@rocky verge no they need a tiger 1

rocky verge
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Dread use ya brain for a min

idle breach
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mother still loves you dread

haughty sun
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cool a battlefield server

jade lodge
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They also need to marry a Ah-17 @vestal yew

rocky verge
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Tiger 1 Vs APFSD and HEATFS and ATGMS

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No dread

vestal yew
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@idle breach stop pls

idle breach
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mother's love never stops

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accept the mother

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no it's mother

vestal yew
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The motherland?

idle breach
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yeah of course

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of course it's motherland

vestal yew
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I'm not russian

idle breach
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you're now.

vestal yew
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I'm french

rocky verge
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If Russia was motherland and germany the fatherland what dose that make Poland?

jade lodge
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No Russians on my turf KKonaW

idle breach
#

uh

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bro-land

vestal yew
rocky verge
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French boi meh gonna surrender next week

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They always surrender

idle breach
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britain is just town madman

jade lodge
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:(

rocky verge
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They ugly m8

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And stinky

vestal yew
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Tea and crumpets for all

rocky verge
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USA:ok we won't support you lmao

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Surrender

jade lodge
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I'm British ya faking wankers >:c

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Lol

cold trail
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Lets keep it on topic or take it to #general.

rocky verge
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Its hydra

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Run

solid hinge
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BF3 has a Strike at Karkand 24/7 server finally!

vestal yew
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The British v the irish

jade lodge
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I'm English but living in Scotland. I am a spy :)

cold trail
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@solid hinge What did I just say?

idle breach
#

sturmjager iron cross is changed?

jade lodge
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Summon the hydra HandsUp

vestal yew
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Hydra is my spirit animal

rocky verge
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Or just clean the chat message in the past 10 mins

jade lodge
#

Just start all your sentences off with: Battlefield. Then talk about whatever you want :D

knotty brook
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yeet

rocky verge
vestal yew
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Battlefield I hate tea

jade lodge
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Battlefield i love it

rocky verge
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@solid hinge that message is not gone

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They have logs for messages

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And deleated ones as well

jade lodge
#

Amd

rocky verge
knotty brook
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๐Ÿ’ฏ

rocky verge
#

Amd
@jade lodge Amd

jade lodge
#

Can't wait for the bfv remastered ablobderpyhappy

vestal yew
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I wish

rocky verge
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There is no BFV remastered

reef bronze
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They should do american civil war

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For bf6

rocky verge
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Ok muted

vestal yew
#

Very german name @reef bronze

rocky verge
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Lmao

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Told you they have logs for messages here

jade lodge
#

Hydra is always watching monkaSweat

vestal yew
#

Hydra is my spirit animal

rocky verge
#

Mods are always lurking fox

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You get use to it

last raft
#

@jade lodge are u furry?

jade lodge
#

No

last raft
#

It looks like

vestal yew
#

@rocky verge you a furry

jade lodge
#

It's my spirit animal lol

haughty sun
#

Recon is so hard in Battlefield lmao

cold trail
#

We're always watching, even when you think we're not, and we see all. So, please be good.

last raft
#

I love recon

rocky verge
#

You have a soldier as a PFP are you in the army? @last raft

jade lodge
#

We are always good hydra ๐Ÿ™‚

vestal yew
#

Hydra is my spirit animal

last raft
#

I'm not English so I don't know what is PFP

haughty sun
#

Profile Picture

jade lodge
#

Profile picture

last raft
#

Oh ok

rocky verge
#

@rocky verge you a furry
@vestal yew yes I am go ahead make furry jokes I really don't care stare

solid hinge
#

Strike at Karkand is so good ๐Ÿ‘

last raft
#

Me to

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@rocky verge

vestal yew
#

I'm an anti furry

last raft
#

And no I'm not in the army

#

@rocky verge

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I just love bf

rocky verge
#

More pings

#

Already have 4935

jade lodge
#

Hydra since you're always watching i have a question. What's your spirit animal? :D

vestal yew
#

Hydra is my spirit animal

last raft
#

Ur a dragon so it makes sence

vestal yew
#

It's spyro

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From the game

rocky verge
#

He is spyro

last raft
#

Ye I know

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That carton game with the dragon

jade lodge
#

Yeah dread is a scalie not a furry lol

vestal yew
#

No

haughty sun
#

trueeeeee

rocky verge
#

He just said he was anti furry lmao

vestal yew
#

Your a furry if you dress up as a animal

rocky verge
#

I only have a furry as my profle pic but dont dress up as one

last raft
#

How do you laugh in English?

vestal yew
#

Do you call yourself a furry ?

jade lodge
#

Quick talk about something battlefield related before hydra sees monkaW

rocky verge
#

Wow bfv so fun dice come back

vestal yew
#

Hydra is my spirit animal

jade lodge
#

Bfv is such a great game Kapp

last raft
#

Wut ur favorite bf

vestal yew
#

Bf1

rocky verge
#

Don't have one

echo turtle
#

minecraft is my favorite bf

last raft
#

Who don't

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My favorite is bf4

jade lodge
#

Same. I like bf3 but the game has definitely aged. I'd say it's just the 10 tick servers that screw it over though.

last raft
#

I only played bf4 on ps3

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But it's my favorite game at the same

vestal yew
#

Sturmtruppler sounds like sturmtiger

last raft
#

It's small like him or what?

vestal yew
#

Wut?

last raft
#

The cannon

vestal yew
#

Sturmtiger is not small

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It's a tank

last raft
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The cannon of the tank

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Not he tank

vestal yew
#

Idk wut your trying to say

last raft
#

I send u a foto on private

vestal yew
#

Like a dm?

jade lodge
#

He means dm ye

vestal yew
#

Oh

jade lodge
#

At least I'm pretty sure that's what he means

last raft
#

Wut dm?

vestal yew
#

Direct message

last raft
#

Ye

solid hinge
#

Not sure whether BF3 or 4 is better

#

Hard time deciding they both are brilliant

jade lodge
#

Bf4 definitely did balance the air vehicles more

last raft
#

I never played bf 3 bc I had bf 4 first

jade lodge
#

Bf3 heli tv missile range...

last raft
#

I only have 14 years

solid hinge
#

BF3 maps were amazing

floral blade
#

Balanced out the air vehicles by overpowering the AA

vestal yew
#

@last raft I still don't know what your trying to say

floral blade
#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

solid hinge
#

But the vertical gameplay in BF4 was also fun

jade lodge
#

Bf3 had some amazing maps yeah

last raft
#

@vestal yew I tell u on private

jade lodge
#

The AA was definitely op in bf4 i agree

floral blade
#

Along with the fact passive radar is bugged since it goes through counter measures 9 out of 10 times

jade lodge
#

I'd say if they nerfed the AA then bf4 would be pretty balanced overall

floral blade
#

My friends and I run Soflam as gunner and guided shell as driver of a tank or tow missiles if driver of LAV. The lock on somehow cuts through counter measures as well

small maple
#

Really wishing for a 1980s war game. Then everything would be balanced as technology wasn't sophisticated in the era.

haughty sun
#

BFV gotta nerf tanks

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I dont think i survived a full minute

floral blade
#

Like a chopper will flare or ecm and go behind a building and itโ€™ll still get the kill

haughty sun
#

from spawning

alpine cave
#

So Battlefield VI it's a ww2 game?

last raft
#

No

jade lodge
#

No. if it's a ww2 game dice would go bankrupt lol

small maple
#

Modern era.

floral blade
#

Thereโ€™s no way it goes WW2

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That would be the stupidest move ever made in a gaming industry ๐Ÿ˜‚

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Back to back WW2 titles

jade lodge
#

True lol

small maple
#

I hope it's either Vietnam or a Red Dawn-esque scenario.

last raft
#

That's suicide

floral blade
#

Then again FIFA and Madden sell the same product every year and they make success (I think)

small maple
#

I've seen enough of modern warfare in COD Modern Warcrimes.

last raft
#

Not for u @small maple

alpine cave
#

Did you see the DICE 12 seconds at EA play?

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That was japanese soldiers

jade lodge
#

Yeah it was very impressive Kapp

small maple
#

Japs, not so impressive :(

floral blade
#

Isnโ€™t it confirmed itโ€™s modern era anyway

small maple
#

Yes, but which modern era?

vestal yew
#

A russian name @alpine cave

floral blade
#

Like I remember seeing literally everywhere itโ€™s modern times theme

alpine cave
#

Isnโ€™t it confirmed itโ€™s modern era anyway
@floral blade exactly

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A russian name @alpine cave
@vestal yew Im from Argentina srry

small maple
#

Today? 2000s? 90s? 80s? Heck, even 60s and 70s?

solid hinge
#

i think there going to remaster a game

last raft
#

2020@small maple

vestal yew
#

@alpine cave it's still seems russian

floral blade
#

Unless dice is trolling and actually will release another WW2 game ๐Ÿ˜‚

jade lodge
#

B f v r e m a s t e r e d

small maple
#

Oh boy, Call of Duty Modern Warfare flashbacks here we go again.

haughty sun
#

^

alpine cave
#

Lol

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge feat me 262

jade lodge
#

?

small maple
#

@jade lodge Feat Soviet women.

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge look it up

jade lodge
#

Okay lol

alpine cave
#

Battlefield VI Vietnam would be awesome

small maple
#

Yeah, Vietnam.

#

Agent Orange would be wack.

solid hinge
#

ive been hearing there going to remaster battlefield 3

last raft
#

If the bf5 had just one more dlc from the Soviet Union it would be very mephor

alpine cave
#

Or Bad Company 3

solid hinge
#

yea

small maple
#

2142 prequel.

last raft
#

2142 remaster

alpine cave
#

Battlefield 1942 remastered lmao

jade lodge
#

@vestal yew that's an odd looking plane :o

alpine cave
#

4k

last raft
#

NO

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge first ever jet plane

solid hinge
#

i just want a new modern style game

last raft
#

I'm tired of ww2

floral blade
#

Tbh I think DICE/EA will play it safe with BF6 and go to what the majority of the community want which is modern times. Not past conflicts but slightly futuristic warfare

alpine cave
#

Battlefield EEUU civil war

small maple
#

But that's just copying what COD is doing.

floral blade
#

I think the BF4 conflict was supposedly staged in 2024

last raft
#

Yeah me to@floral blade

small maple
#

Modern Warfare remastered and rebooted.

floral blade
#

If I remember correctly

small maple
#

@floral blade it's even worse. 2020.

jade lodge
#

@vestal yew that's pretty cool I didn't know that c:

floral blade
#

If itโ€™s slightly more futuristic it gives them creative flexibility to basically design and modify whatever vehicles and guns they want

#

Lolololol @small maple

jade lodge
#

I learned something new today yay pogu

alpine cave
#

EA never learns @floral blade

last raft
#

Wut? @jade lodge

vestal yew
#

The more you know

small maple
#

Next thing we know in 2020, a chinese leader may get killed from the Koronavirus.

last raft
#

About the cannon? @vestal yew

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge would it be op

small maple
#

Kickstarting Battlefield 4 in real life.

alpine cave
#

Battlefield VR

vestal yew
#

@last raft I kinda get it

small maple
#

Not the most possible thing that could happen, but hey, Battlefield 3 almost started this year, so anything's possible.

jade lodge
#

@vestal yew I'm kind of confused on what you mean. Op against what? :p

last raft
#

I think there is a bf vr

floral blade
#

I wouldnโ€™t mind a BF3 remaster tbh itโ€™s been like 8 maybe 9 years since BF3 launched

small maple
#

But it's a bad year to do anti Iranian stuff.

#

Remember Qassem Suleimani?

floral blade
#

Iran declares war on USA bc of remastered video game

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge other aircraft in bfv I mean it's a jet

floral blade
#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

last raft
#

See

jade lodge
#

@vestal yew ooo in the case I'd probably say it would be. Thing is I haven't played that much bfv but I'd guess something like that would definitely have an advantage against other airplanes.

small maple
#

Seriously, this BF3 remaster just might tip Iran off the edge and BF3 will not be just a game anymore.

floral blade
#

@last raft bruh that looks horrifying

last raft
#

I know

vestal yew
#

Yes

floral blade
#

Imagine you spawn in golmud

#

And thereโ€™s no vehicles

#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

#

Your ass be running for a full minute

#

Getting that cardio in

jade lodge
#

Iran is weak compared to America so I don't think they would be that stupid to start a war against them.

last raft
#

Imagine pilot a jet with that thinh

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge don't they have nuclear weapons

small maple
#

Well, Afghanistan and Japan were stupid enough. What makes you think they won't be as stupid as them?

floral blade
#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

#

Iโ€™m imagining right you go to do a 180 degree turn and fall down

#

What your character model would be doing

jade lodge
#

@solid hinge fair point lol

#

They'd lose anyhow probs

#

@vestal yew I'm not too sure in all honesty

last raft
#

Hydra it's always seeing

#

Deja vu

cold trail
#

First--Afghanistan didn't start a war with the US, the Taliban did. The people of Afghanistan are good people... speaking from experience. Second--let's stay away from politically themed arguments. They're a no-no here. Thank you.

vestal yew
#

Hydra is my spirit animal

small maple
#

@cold trail Sorry.

jade lodge
#

Hydra we need to know your spirit animal

cold trail
#

No worries, now we know. ๐Ÿ™‚

vestal yew
#

Please

last raft
cold trail
#

My spirit animal? People who stand up for what is right, objectively and via free-thought. Anyone who is doing that is alright in my book.

vestal yew
#

What's yours

jade lodge
#

People = animal ThinkHmm

last raft
#

Ye

vestal yew
#

Animal

last raft
#

We are Frick in animals

vestal yew
#

Excluding humans

last raft
#

Frickin*

vestal yew
#

Some day

#

Wait

last raft
#

Wut

vestal yew
#

Is the hydra hydras spirit animal

last raft
vestal yew
#

Where is everyone

last raft
#

Idk

jade lodge
#

Server dead :(

vestal yew
#

All got banned

jade lodge
#

This is actually showing how dead bfv is lol

vestal yew
#

Lol

last raft
#

Lol

#

Would u guys like cross-plat?

vestal yew
#

Wut

jade lodge
#

Cross platform

last raft
#

Cross-platform

vestal yew
#

I play on ps4

last raft
#

Me to

floral blade
#

Idk

#

Maybe cross platform across consoles

#

But once PC enters that mix

last raft
#

Cross-plataform its like a ps4 gamer can play with a Xbox

jade lodge
#

I'm on pc Happy

floral blade
#

Consoles automatically become severely disadvantaged

vestal yew
#

I think there getting unbanned its alive

#

Well 1 person

last raft
#

He survived

floral blade
#

I would like to think Iโ€™m fairly good at BF4 but I know more often than not Iโ€™d get stomped by a pc player just bc mouse and keyboard is more accurate compared to controller

last raft
#

Yup

jade lodge
#

I would farm all of you ablobderpyhappy

last raft
#

Bye it's 4am

vestal yew
#

@jade lodge hey that's just rude

jade lodge
#

Yeah you're right sorry :(

floral blade
#

Maybe in vehicles it would be more evenly matched

vestal yew
#

Wut is server boosting

floral blade
#

But when itโ€™s on the ground infantry vs infantry itโ€™s severely mismatched

#

I mean yes there is shit players on pc who would get stomped by console players just bc they suck ๐Ÿ˜‚

uneven hollow
#

Imagine a flood

vestal yew
#

Fortnite is bad

floral blade
#

I was playing the other day and was in a party and this other player was asking how they can get good at the game. So I asked them โ€œhow long have you played bf4?โ€ They responded โ€œ7000 hoursโ€

vestal yew
#

Wow

floral blade
#

I was gonna be rude and say โ€œif youโ€™re not good with 7000 hours then you have no chanceโ€

#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

jade lodge
#

Playing the objective is the most important part :)

vestal yew
#

Nah kills

uneven hollow
#

Obj and kills

vestal yew
covert cypress
uneven hollow
#

Indeed

jade lodge
#

As long as you ptfo and keep a kd over 1 you're good imo c:

floral blade
#

I PTFO and almost have a 2 KD

vestal yew
#

I love just torching some hallway or doorway my team is pinned down in

floral blade
#

I donโ€™t really use vehicles I prefer being on the ground

vestal yew
#

@floral blade tank

floral blade
#

I have only 300 kills in the tank

#

Granted this is a newer acct since I just got a PS4 5 months ago

jade lodge
#

I play multiple roles and have 1.71kd and 60% w/l ratio which i think is okay

vestal yew
#

I thought you said ps5

floral blade
#

On my old PS3 acct I have 2100 hours

#

And a 1.71 KD

vestal yew
#

I don't care about stats

#

But I love cinematic shots

#

Like 3 tanks in a line

uneven hollow
jade lodge
#

Most important stats are w/l ratio and score per minute I'd say

uneven hollow
#

Tbh idc that much kd since I do kamikaze

floral blade
#

W/L ratio unfortunately isnโ€™t accurate to skill level imo

#

Bc 1 player canโ€™t win the whole game

uneven hollow
#

Iโ€™d assume itโ€™s gone downhill since I started it

floral blade
#

You rely on how well your teammates can perform

jade lodge
#

True but I've seen some players with 70-80% w/l ratio on pc

floral blade
#

Okay thatโ€™s impressive. I do feel though if you have a squad of 5 very good players

#

The chances of a win are higher

jade lodge
#

Oh definitely

vestal yew
#

I was once being chased by like an entire squad and 2 Sherman s just pop out guns blazing like the "cavalry is here"

floral blade
#

Then a squad of a single good players and 4 mediocre to bad squad mates

#

Like back on ps3 I had a squad of 5 who we played locker so much

jade lodge
#

Either I'll not join a squad or only join a squad with high level players

floral blade
#

All of us would average 80-100+ kills a game

#

But thatโ€™s when itโ€™s a 12 vs 12

vestal yew
#

Not me

#

I'm like 2 kills per game

floral blade
#

5 people dropping 100 kills on a ps3 game is basically game over for the other team

#

Most kills I ever dropped on a game of locker was 244 back on PS3

#

Most on PS4 was 205 or 206

idle breach
#

stats that are lower than me are meaninful

#

higher stats are meaningless

uneven hollow
#

Indeed

#

Heck I did a 35-31 and Iโ€™m proud of that

floral blade
#

I think KD kinda matters imo. Tho itโ€™s not indicative of a good player. They could be a vehicle whore and not an infantry player. Iโ€™d however trust someone whoโ€™s got a 2 KD when fighting on a flag to help me capture it then someone whos got like a .5 ๐Ÿ˜‚

vestal yew
#

Imma head out bye

jade lodge
#

Bye dread ablobwavereverse

#

If i was to reset my kd it would be so much higher

#

I had a potato pc when i first played the game so my kd was like 0.9 or something

prime pine
#

I like how in smaller game modes your actions have greater effect

midnight nova
#

Yo BF6 was teased at ea play

floral blade
#

I think In rush itโ€™s possible to have a massive impact as solo player

icy sluice
#

I started using the BAR again, pretty good :v

floral blade
#

An epic flank on an objective killing all defenders there

#

But in conquest or obliteration good luck ๐Ÿ˜‚

fossil heron
#

Lots of peeps with win %s in the 70%+ range play a lot of squad conquest or clanstack mostly

dense bone
#

^

#

or play small game modes that they can influence

#

(squad conquest)

floral blade
#

Mhmm

jade lodge
#

Agreed

prime pine
#

My wl was 73-75% before I joined fL haha

#

Now irs 78. Something

dense bone
#

ill toot my own damn horn, but before firestorm i had a 2.5 kdr, 2 kpm, and 685spm stat line, i was at a 60-65% win % for the longest time

#

youre not going to find many players than can do what i did, and i had a good win % to show for it

prime pine
#

Oh yeah Firestorm wouldn't be bad for that

dense bone
#

but i honestly think 65% is either with consistent friends or certain game modes

prime pine
#

Not gonna lie tho

silver compass
#

Just got BF4 and 3 on Steam, I cannot launch either of them

prime pine
#

If firestorm was popular enough, a pacific themed firestorm map would be cool

jade lodge
#

Update punkbuster from their website

#

@silver compass

silver compass
#

I think I did, I went through that whole initialization process

#

now whenever I hit play absolutely nothing happens

#

Oh, running it through Origin seems to work fine

#

I hope the servers are populated lol

jade lodge
#

EU servers for bf4 are the most populated im pretty sure

silver compass
#

That's nice. I miss carrier assault so much lol

jade lodge
#

EU RU and UK servers don't seem to have that much of a huge ping difference if you're in either on of those areas and have decent internet

#

You'll find more dlc servers on EU as well

silver compass
#

Thanks. Not a single carrier assault though but oh well, I was hoping the servers would be revitalized from the steam releases

jade lodge
#

Not that many people like to play carrier from what I'd guess

silver compass
#

Hmm

jade lodge
#

Which is a shame cause I'd like to play it more

fresh matrix
#

It was my fav mode

jade lodge
#

The fuckers who vote lockers on dlc servers annoy me lol

silver compass
#

Yeah that was awesome. At this rate I just hope the DLC maps are in rotation a bit more because I already owned BF4 on PC, it was just cheaper to get the premium edition from Steam to get the DLCs all at once

#

lmao

jade lodge
#

Most servers have a vote map plugin

#

So they'd have a list of map's and you'd either vote /1 for metro or /2 for Caspian border

silver compass
#

I'm very new to the PC scene, I've always been a PS4 battlefield guy but I jumped at the price

#

So here I am

jade lodge
#

Some also use "!1" Instead i think

floral blade
#

Does PC have problems with Badmins as well?

jade lodge
#

Yup

fossil heron
#

I'm playing like shit tonight

floral blade
#

I TV missiled an admins little bird and killed him

silver compass
#

I don't know the controls lmao it can't be that bad

floral blade
#

Instaban ๐Ÿ˜‚

fossil heron
#

Was in a squad with 3 people who collectively had 4 kills and 30 deaths

silver compass
#

Also I got crushed by a falling object and spawnkilled in 2 helis

fossil heron
#

How can you be that bad

silver compass
#

I'm not even that bad yiiiiikes

amber pine
#

Amazing

fossil heron
#

They were in the 70s too

floral blade
#

Phantom Bow sqd FTW

jade lodge
#

Dice should let people rate rented servers. So like a 5 star review type thing. Means we can all avoid the shit ones lol

floral blade
#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

fossil heron
#

Probably 2000 hours and like 4k kills

amber pine
#

I don't think it works that way lol

#

Unless you're talking about the staff

floral blade
#

Tbh I always wonder

amber pine
#

If there is any

floral blade
#

How can a person enjoy the game while being a horrible player consistently

amber pine
#

How can a person enjoy the game while being a horrible player consistently
@floral blade that's me

floral blade
#

Like if I get multiple rounds where my KD goes negative it bothers me

#

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

amber pine
#

Lol

zenith cape
#

So is the battlefield v worth to buy? Im thinking of buying it after the cyberpunk 2077 delay

silver compass
#

I own it, if it's cheap the pacific front is worth the price alone

#

But it also depends how much you like BF

#

In general, I find it less fun than some of the modern ones, and keep in mind that they stopped supporting the game just recently

zenith cape
#

Hard decision hmm

jade lodge
#

Buy it on steam make sure to play it for under 2 hours then refund it if you don't like it ez

zenith cape
#

Ah I forgot about the refund policy

#

But sadly got scammed by ea last year

silver compass
#

That makes it easier

jade lodge
#

You could also watch twitch streams of bfv. Bfv YouTube videos will usually just be edited to show you the best parts but not what the whole thing is like. At least imo.

plain pecan
#

I don't recommend BFV. Total disaster. BF1, BF4, BF3, etc. are well made. Don't get Hardline either.

solid hinge
#

@zenith cape waste of time and money

plain pecan
#

^

zenith cape
#

Oh

jade lodge
#

Hardline is a masterpiece when you compare it to bfv though lol

solid hinge
#

Try the older battlefields

silver compass
#

I miss hardline lol, in retrospect it was a unique idea and I think it was well executed. Definitely better than BFV, I can agree that was an absolute disaster. Pacific front was the only saving grace but the Iwo Jima map is pretty bad

plain pecan
#

Wonders if BF1942 still works.

silver compass
#

1943 all time greatest BF

#

God I would sink so many hours into that game lol, shame it never made its way to PC

jade lodge
#

I have never played hardline but the gunplay seemed quite fun and unique

plain pecan
#

To reliant on fire rate, from what I've watched.

zenith cape
#

Anyway thank you for the suggestion and help everyone

silver compass
#

Hardline was 10 on steam so I jumped on it. Takes me back.

jade lodge
#

I'd buy it just for the m16a3 lol

silver compass
#

I can't say much about the gunplay itself because I was bad at it, but it did seem like TTK was excessively fast

#

The game modes were fun though, ziplining across rooftops on Heist was cool

jade lodge
#

I might actually give hardline a try

prime pine
#

Hard-line was crazy fun

silver compass
#

Better than V for sure]

jade lodge
#

Definitely

prime pine
#

Personally I enjoyed bf5 a lot more

#

But bfh I would say was just as enjoyable

nocturne sluice
#

bfh gunplay didnโ€™t feel very good imo, maybe Iโ€™m just crazy

#

still fun driving around tho

silver compass
#

I wasn't the biggest fan of the base maps, and the content was slow moving. BF1 had me hooked but it seemed like it just ended abruptly and the DLC maps were void of people

floral blade
#

Iโ€™ll catch yโ€™all later. Time for The Last of Us 2

prime pine
#

It was basically bf4's but even more lethal

#

Which I liked

silver compass
#

Do I even dare say anything to that. I saw the leaks lol. Hope you enjoy it

nocturne sluice
#

I definitely liked BF4 more thank hardline but I canโ€™t really put my finger on it

#

Iโ€™m not saying I hated hardline, it was still a really interesting concept

silver compass
#

Oh yeah BF4 is definitely a more enjoyable experience, but Hardline has something special about it that I can't describe

solid hinge
#

Is Battlefield 6 gonna be historical? I can't tell anymore

prime pine
#

You just didn't work with it

#

Which is understandable

#

Yoyou

#

I loved the humour in it as it kept me laughing

nocturne sluice
#

I guess I did like the not-as-serious tone

jade lodge
#

I feel like hardline got a lot of shit just because it wasn't a war based game :p

prime pine
#

Its weapon balance was of major concern too

nocturne sluice
#

well also the sabotage was the most annoying piece of crap to fight against

prime pine
#

Oh god that

#

Yeah I was an asshole with that

silver compass
#

I get the feeling that it wouldn't be as hated if it weren't under the Battlefield label, but the BF franchise was probably one of the only reliable ways to get the game to ship and do well in sales

jade lodge
#

True

nocturne sluice
#

thatโ€™s what Iโ€™ve heard some people say

silver compass
#

As a standalone game it might even have its own cult following today

nocturne sluice
#

itโ€™s a good game, just not a good battlefield game

prime pine
#

On blood money I would give the opposing side (on Hollywood heights) a booby trapped van and I used to always pick up a kill or two, as I would drive it into their spawn

silver compass
#

I do wish there were more Cops versus Robbers type games out though

#

Hollywood Heights was such an unbalanced map lol

prime pine
#

Loved it so much

silver compass
#

one side always won because it was an uphill battle

#

Fun but frustrating if you weren't inside the mansion

prime pine
#

I always used to take the transport helicopter and either be the gunner or the repper

jade lodge
#

If it was a a huge dlc add-on to bf4 i think it would of been received better but I'm not sure lol

prime pine
#

Cause all the snipers would fucking fire at it thinking they could make a difference

#

When its just free rep points

crystal condor
#

sooooo we got no news for Battlefield for the next year or so?

fossil heron
#

Probably not

silver compass
#

BF4 isn't doing it for me rn, I'm gonna try Hardline again and see how it holds up to my rosy retrospect

nocturne sluice
#

we have a face

fossil heron
#

Hi bodie!

nocturne sluice
#

thatโ€™s all

crystal condor
#

thats fucking lame

prime pine
#

Allo creamy

#

Yeah we didn't get much more like a mini tech demo

fossil heron
#

I miss my transport helicopters

silver compass
#

Those were lit

jade lodge
#

I miss having a low level co-pilot who didn't have the TV missile unlocked in bf4 :(

silver compass
#

BF could have been more up front about the spinoff nature of the game

#

If they marketed it as an independent side project and set the price at 30-40 dollars, I wonder how that would have worked

nocturne sluice
#

Well theres probably gonna be more new players since bf4 is on steam

solid hinge
#

Welp.... Here we go..TLOUII

silver compass
#

Dang everyone's playing LOU

#

Oh yeah it's midnight

jade lodge
#

There's a lot more new players I'd say

#

Could be old players coming back as well though

silver compass
#

Well these new players are still tearing me a new one

jade lodge
#

You have a lot of smurf bf4 accounts on pc lol

silver compass
#

I bet

#

Hardline time

#

nvm

#

Punkbuster time

#

Is that their anti hack client?

jade lodge
#

Yep

nocturne sluice
#

tried installing a shader mod for bc2 at one point and punkbuster didnโ€™t like that

#

a necessary evil

#

imo

silver compass
#

Is the only way to play Hardline through a browser matchmaker?

jade lodge
#

Was it sweetfx by any chance or something else?

silver compass
#

Oh nvm

nocturne sluice
#

It was with a programme called reshade, but I used different codes made by other people to get it to work

#

Just some lighting and motion blur mods I think

jade lodge
#

Oh yeah i know what you mean. Reshade and sweetfx worked fine on bf4 I'm pretty sure. At least sweetfx works fine for me on it.

#

I think it worked on bf3 as well

nocturne sluice
#

Maybe bc2 is just weird like that

#

I have a separate mod loader for it and it seems to work fine

#

I like modding all my games

jade lodge
#

I don't really mod any games but bf4 with sweetfx looks so much better I'd never go back

nocturne sluice
#

i rlly only mess with that kind of stuff if I want a game to look better, bcuz Iโ€™m confident my computer can handle it

jade lodge
#

I wonder if hardline would look any better with a sweetfx config

nocturne sluice
#

I donโ€™t play BF on the PC as much, but it probably would

#

I donโ€™t rlly have a say

jade lodge
#

Yeah I'll probably have a look into it :)

#

Anyhow i should really get some sleep now so good night ablobwavereverse

nocturne sluice
#

Nighty night, mister

silver compass
#

Hardline isn't even functioning wtf

#

Just stuck in the initial loading screen

nocturne sluice
#

dropkick ur pc, it should work afterwards

silver compass
#

fr

#

Might return this, I'm annoyed

nocturne sluice
#

yikes, maybe u should try googling troubleshooting type shit first

silver compass
#

lol

#

It's not a very polished experience

#

Ah yes, elevator camping on Downtown

#

My favorite xD

pliant lintel
#

Oop

#

Whatโ€™s poppin?

tranquil remnant
#

Nthg m8

pliant lintel
#

Have you happened to use the Battlefield Tracker site, m8?

tranquil remnant
#

Idk have i

light radish
#

do people still play bf1

pliant lintel
#

Yesh

#

I do

light radish
#

cuz i wanna play bf again but bfv is ass

tranquil remnant
#

I don't

pliant lintel
#

I have two accounts

#

I switched to Xbox because ps4 broke smh

tranquil remnant
#

Smurfing niceeeeeeeee

pliant lintel
#

Mhm

#

my og one was pretty shrexy on ps4

tranquil remnant
#

Ooo nice lmao

pliant lintel
#

Anyways

tranquil remnant
#

Do U have pc

#

Acc

pliant lintel
#

Nope, soon!

tranquil remnant
#

Niceee

#

I used to play on PS4 too

pliant lintel
#

Apparently my kpm with cavalry sword is 827....

#

So thatโ€™s nice I guess

tranquil remnant
#

Lmao

pliant lintel
#

Ps4 stats NotLikeThis

tranquil remnant
#

Lol

pliant lintel
tranquil remnant
#

Ok

pliant lintel
#

Oop

#

Also i can no longer play on xbox because my B button is broken smh

#

End me

tranquil remnant
#

Lol

#

So what do U play on now then

pliant lintel
#

Nothin ๐Ÿฅบ

#

I canโ€™t look at bf1 in #stats Iโ€™m so sad Alexa play despacito

prime pine
#

Oh no

tranquil remnant
#

It's fine..

pliant lintel
#

Iโ€™m hurt

tranquil remnant
#

Just play mobile lmao

pliant lintel
#

Bruh

tranquil remnant
#

Ok no joke

#

It serious right

pliant lintel
#

Whatโ€™s serious?

idle breach
#

playing despacito now

tranquil remnant
#

U not being able to play bf

pliant lintel
#

I canโ€™t ๐Ÿฅบ

tranquil remnant
#

It's very sad fam

pliant lintel
#

playing despacito now
Thank you Alexa

tough lodge
#

The Fliegerfaust can one hit kill planes again and its fucking stupid

pliant lintel
#

Burton lmg way sexier

#

Sooo

tranquil remnant
#

Lmao

idle breach
tranquil remnant
#

But it's hard to actually hit it

#

Lmao nice pic

pliant lintel
#

i donโ€™t understand bfv memes I came here for bf1

tranquil remnant
#

What bf1 memes U want then

pliant lintel
#

i donโ€™t know

tranquil remnant
#

that's a fat rip fam

pliant lintel
#

I wish I could use #stats for bf1 tbh ๐Ÿ‘‰๐Ÿ‘ˆ๐Ÿฅบ

tranquil remnant
#

Stay happy :)

pliant lintel
#

I canโ€™t!

tranquil remnant
#

Oh no!

pliant lintel
#

Iโ€™m literally just playing doom and forza smh

tranquil remnant
#

What Doom game

pliant lintel
#

Eternal

tranquil remnant
#

Lmao niceee

pliant lintel
#

Already beat 2016 ๐Ÿ˜›

#

I beat eternal too but mick Gordon just makes epic music

tranquil remnant
#

I can't afford eternal :(

#

I*

pliant lintel
#

Oop

digital kiln
#

god bf1 sniping is so fucking good

#

it feels amazING

pliant lintel
#

YES

tranquil remnant
#

Lmao nice bud

#

Den dinks tho

pliant lintel
#

Martini henry and Gewehr

#

Sexy guns

digital kiln
#

36-10 sniping on rupture

tranquil remnant
#

Absolutely hot.

pliant lintel
#

@digital kiln send me your stats? ๐Ÿ‘‰๐Ÿ‘ˆ

digital kiln
#

i prefer sniping with the suppressed lee enfield

tranquil remnant
#

Suppressed tho?

digital kiln
#

pff im new to bf 1 ion got any impressive stats

pliant lintel
#

I only used the suppressed lee enfield for hardcore

tranquil remnant
#

Lmao

digital kiln
#

suppressed is just because iT soUndS coOL

pliant lintel
#

Bruh

tranquil remnant
#

Lol nice reasoning

pliant lintel
#

I mean.. I could try an carry you on my smurf account

tranquil remnant
#

Smurf ACC let's goio

digital kiln
#

๐Ÿ‘๏ธ ๐Ÿ‘„ ๐Ÿ‘๏ธ

pliant lintel
#

Yesh

digital kiln
#

i meann im down for tommorow i needa buy a new controller

#

ive been playing without a headset for like 2 weeks

tranquil remnant
#

Wait what platform U guys play on

digital kiln
#

this controller jack got fucked and idk how

#

xbox

tranquil remnant
#

Oh I play on pc :(

haughty sun
#

@tranquil remnant wanna play?

pliant lintel
#

I need a new controller badly

tranquil remnant
#

Huh

#

Later

#

What bf

haughty sun
#

uh

#

i play bf 1 4 5

tranquil remnant
#

Kk

#

Dms

fossil heron
#

Why do people love running into bullets?

pliant lintel
#

creamystarfish

fossil heron
#

Whats the appeal?

pliant lintel
#

What game?

fossil heron
#

It happens in all of them tbh

pliant lintel
#

Well... thatโ€™s true

#

What game are you playin rn that made you say that?

fossil heron
#

V

pliant lintel
#

Smh

#

shaking my head

#

I canโ€™t believe you smh

fossil heron
#

We actually did surprisingly well

#

We were down 10 people the whole game and we got the attackers down to 20 tix

digital kiln
#

i kinda wanna uninstall bf v

fossil heron
#

Then do it

digital kiln
#

mostly because i dont like the gun play in it

fossil heron
#

Wut

pliant lintel
#

I never bought it

#

Never will :3

digital kiln
#

good

fossil heron
#

Its actually good

digital kiln
#

stay that way

#

i dunno man

pliant lintel
#

Im not gonna buy it...

fossil heron
#

Its good if you weren't waiting around for more content

#

I personally dont buy DICE games at launch anymore

pliant lintel
#

Im not getting it.

#

The reveal trailer was.... kind of....

#

trash

digital kiln
#

i wanna get bf 4 but like

fossil heron
#

The reveal trailer was cool imo

digital kiln
#

broke rn

fossil heron
#

What was trash about it?

pliant lintel
#

The reveal trailer was cool imo
@fossil heron get that heresy out of your mouth

fossil heron
#

I just feel like people love to hate v

digital kiln
#

i LOVED bf hardline i want another game like that one

fossil heron
#

I actually avoided it because of the bad reviews

#

But its better than 1 imo

pliant lintel
#

During the first few seconds, I couldnโ€™t tell if it was taking place in a ww2 setting or a steampunk setting....

fossil heron
#

I wish they went full steampunk ww2

pliant lintel
#

As someone who much enjoys history, itโ€™s sad to see what they did.

digital kiln
#

well its not that i just hate bfv to hate it, i bought it and for me it just doesnt appeal to me at all tbh

fossil heron
#

I like history too

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But its a videogame lol

pliant lintel
#

Bruh

fossil heron
#

@digital kiln thats fair

pliant lintel
#

And I choose not to buy it

fossil heron
#

Thats fine

pliant lintel
#

โ€žIf you donโ€™t like it, donโ€™t buy itโ€œ

fossil heron
#

Im not telling you to buy it lol

pliant lintel
#

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

fossil heron
#

I'm just saying it really doesnt deserve as much hate as it gets

pliant lintel
#

Im just saying, I donโ€™t hate it to hate. I have my reasons.

fossil heron
#

Well I think your reasons are petty

pliant lintel
#

Petty?

fossil heron
#

Yep

pliant lintel
#

If Iโ€™m told to not buy it if I dislike it, I wonโ€™t buy it.

fossil heron
#

Thats fine

#

So if you're told to buy it if you dislike it you'll buy it?

pliant lintel
#

I donโ€™t think my reasons are petty, but believe what you wish.

#

Thatโ€™s not the same as the BFV Chaos.

digital kiln
#

i wish the lmgs in bf 1 were a little weaker

fossil heron
#

Thats honest marketing and its pretty rare

haughty sun
#

trueeee

pliant lintel
#

Valentine, get the burton ๐Ÿ‘€

digital kiln
#

i also dont like how lmg users benefit from laying down the whole game lol

fossil heron
#

Yeah I agree

#

But tbh lmgs in V are easy to counter