@leaden glen wouldn't mind that
#battlefield-legacy-titles
tidal arrow
solid hinge
Yeah
jovial forge
I don't mind the era, just don't pull a bait n switch like BFV
errant root
Argentina used it too
leaden glen
The Gulf War could be interesting, next year is it's the 30th Anniversary.
errant root
It was 100 hours long, lol
solid hinge
I AM THE VICTIM OF VOODOO!!!
errant root
the ground war at least
twilit moon
"💬 Discussion preferably about Battlefield titles! Please remember to read the pins for useful information." KEKW
errant root
Just give us Bad Company 3
leaden glen
@errant root THE last war to feature battleships (The US' WWII-vintage Iowa class).
solid hinge
Ive always wanted a mode where the US navy and air force had to defend its self from incoming Japanese kamikaze pilots
twilit moon
a cold war theme is not that bad afterall, but not sure about it's 'content' capabilities
leaden glen
@errant root @solid hinge A guide to the weapons used by both the British and Argentinians during the Falklands War: AKA what DICE & EA would have to work with for a BF set in the early 80's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Falklands_War
next herald
Cold War Alternatibe History
They could always go that route
They could start a new “lore” road.
echo turtle
Battlefield has lore?
twilit moon
The Battlefield lore is in each player heart and mind.
jovial forge
Technically there is little lore but can be easily dimissed when it comes to BF3's main character Blackburn and BF1's Blackburn
Bad company has its own story
BF4 was an extension of the conflict from BF3
fossil heron
I dont think people play BF for the lore
jovial forge
Multiplayer is BF's niche meat and potatoes
twilit moon
Eitherway, there it is tho. the lore
solid hinge
Do you guys think dice will update bf4 or bf1 in the meantime?
fossil heron
No
errant root
DICE should allow open mod support and private server hosting
fossil heron
They'll keep up with community games on 1
errant root
You know, like CS:GO
fossil heron
Frostbite is not fun to mod
uneven hollow
Tbh bfv should have mods
errant root
Well it's a huge POS, I know
uneven hollow
Like let us mod your bfv
errant root
But put out a dev kit for mod support
uneven hollow
If you won’t support bfv then the modders will have fun
errant root
Look at what mods have done for Skyrim
uneven hollow
uneven hollow
We can literary have modded Russians and modded Italians
orchid shore
agreed actually
solid hinge
Mods may make the game glicth and create more bugs doe
solid hinge
I don't look at fallout mods
uneven hollow
Most of it just crashes the game but still playable if done right
fossil heron
Fallout =/=battlefield
gray glade
watching jackfrags play bf4 again does make me want to reinstall the game again
it still looks so good
sly stratus
Lots of dlc servers are up too since the pandemic
rigid bramble
Like BFV (ashes cigarette)
sly stratus
Its really fun
rigid bramble
Crazy how they could redeem that game and not BFV.
And the fact people still play like they do is a testament to all they put into it.
jovial forge
BF4 started clunky but got better over time
rigid bramble
Saying it started out "clunky" is being generous.
dense bone
@jovial forge bf4 started off not working
bf4 is the lowest low but highest high
talk shit about bfv all you want, but bf4 not working for 6 months is ridiculous
rigid bramble
Almost like they shouldn't rush games as big as Battlefield 🤷♂️
jovial forge
I was on PSN and the only real problem I came across was zombie soldiers and rubberband.
But yes, stop rushing the game
uneven hollow
True
rigid bramble
Like, I do believe if they had delayed BFV to March it would've at least done marginally better.
When it did drop the biggest complaints I heard was how lackluster it was in terms of content and technically speaking too.
uneven hollow
Remember that time when they bullied the original design of sonic and they changed it
solid hinge
It would justve had more stuff. The game was rigged from the start.
jovial forge
Sonic is its own legend for that move
rigid bramble
Yeah. The director took the hit for it, they went back to the lab and changed it.
jovial forge
That first design was garbage
rigid bramble
Thing is though, the studio behind the redesign folded.
uneven hollow
Imagine if bfv had that same energy
rigid bramble
Crunch like that is insane and has its costs.
uneven hollow
jovial forge
That would of been an amazing turn around of BFV pulled it off
I still say that one of the biggest mistakes was how the presented BFV initially.
rigid bramble
The effort was there. They just couldn't stay out of their own way and commit on an angle with the game.
jovial forge
^
gilded spear
i think what makes bfv content to be rather bare is that they had so many stuff that no one plays
like, combined arms and that battle royale mode
rigid bramble
I mean, when the Pacific Update dropped it seemed that they'd finally gotten their ducks in a row? And then they decided they wanted to have another go at the TTK, for the secodn time.
gilded spear
yeah
warped patrol
hey
jovial forge
Yes. the modes introduced in BFV was lackluster. BR no one wanted, CO-OP that was barebones and mode rotation that took away good modes
rigid bramble
And that stinks. Because the Pacific Update looked some pretty baller was apparently headed by some of the old guard producers at DICE & it showed.
jovial forge
Pacific update was cool til the TTK update happened
rigid bramble
And that trailer. MPHH. The trailer though!
jovial forge
That ttk update killed the hype swiftly
rigid bramble
The Pacific Update Trailer is the sort of thing I expect of EA/DICE's marketing teams.
jovial forge
Pacific trailer should of been what DICE should of shown off at worldwide reveal
rigid bramble
Not some lame breakdown of content. Leave that to the YouTubers.
dense bone
i loved firestorm duo though
night glade
should have, not should of
jovial forge
One second their praising the game, next moment their bashing it
rigid bramble
Not saying they should rely on them though.
Just leave that sort of content to your community creators and give them a pat on the back while you're at it.
dapper bronze
When people just sit light tanks on objectives
rigid bramble
It's old hat at that this point but it's like that way for a reason.
dapper bronze
Like bruh even my antitank rifle can kill em
rigid bramble
@jovial forge But I remember the original reveal controversy kicked off, I had read something about how the original BFV reveal was going be some D-Day shit narrated by like Tom Hardy until the producers steered the marketing team in the direction of the reveal we got.
dapper bronze
The D-Day trailer probably would have helped the game do so much better
rigid bramble
I've lost the source but I remember reading it and thinking how much cooler that'd be especially off the heels of Dunkirk.
jovial forge
Thats what I heard to. That moron screwed the game over before it even launched
dapper bronze
It would just be a nice, solid, classic WW2 game trailer
jovial forge
Main goal of a reveal to a popular game is to collect an audience to want to play it
rigid bramble
Emphasis on WW2 game trailer.
dapper bronze
Which would have meant a lot more pre-orders, which means more success, which means BF5 actually getting good updates, which means a good game that doesn't end live support after 2 years
So basically, the fed up trailer fed the game
jovial forge
It was one of the main factors
rigid bramble
Which is crazy considering the pedigree of the EA/DICE marketing team.
jovial forge
Bad marketing kills products
dapper bronze
What did go wrong with the marketing team tho
rigid bramble
Just go back to BF4: BF4 had some great trailers that really mailed home that game.
dapper bronze
Like how did any of them look at their trailer and think "This is it"
rigid bramble
The higher ups apparently pulled rank on them to meet 'their vision' @dapper bronze
dapper bronze
It's literally the most pc, inaccurate, cartoonish trailer imaginable
Still
You'd think game designers would know by now that pandering to political correctness doesn't go well for sales
jovial forge
Marketing team probably got high and spooked by weirdos who wouldn't play the game. Probably a 12yr old daughter had a hand in it 
rigid bramble
Honestly, I might catch flack for this? But had the trailer been in the modern day, right? I don't think it would've gone over that bad. The trailer itself works... It was the fact it was a WW2 game that threw so many people for a loop.
jovial forge
You aren't wrong
dapper bronze
It was still very cartoonish and made no sense
rigid bramble
Which can work for Battlefield.
jovial forge
there was no flow
dapper bronze
It'd be like having COD modern warfare with clown outfits
rigid bramble
This isn't ARMA, Battlefield is at its best when it focuses on those "Only in Battlefield Moments."
dapper bronze
And don't forget them swapping teams and doing completely random stuff through the trailer
rigid bramble
Look back to the BF1 Reveal.
jovial forge
The pitch of BFV was WWII starting with unknown stuff.
No one expecting what we got starting off
rigid bramble
For what was shown, it felt like BF in WW1.
jovial forge
BF1 trailer was proper marketing
rigid bramble
And done by the same guy who did BFV's reveal apparently.
wheat frigate
How can i report cheaters on console??
jovial forge
I still think at times it was people higher up then DICE that were meddling in BFV's design
cold trail
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dapper bronze
If they'd just remade the Bf1 trailer with bf5 cosmetics it would have done way better
jovial forge
Executive meddling is a killer of products
rigid bramble
If I recall correctly, you have to report them through their profile @wheat frigate
dapper bronze
Like a row of tanks driving through artillery
Followed by shots of urban fighting on rotterdam
Then a pov of a plane dive bombing an objective
wheat frigate
On PS4 there is not that option. I remember on Bad company 2 but no here
dapper bronze
All the stuff they had in the Bf1 trailer
rigid bramble
Even with that all being said, at the end of the day BF1 was still showcasing the better game.
jovial forge
Less michael bay explosion spam would be a start for a BF trailer
dapper bronze
Even so anything is better than following a collection of cartoon soldiers through a mishmash of a battlefield
jovial forge
Just look back at reveals of previous BF titles. They had explosions n such but it was over bearing
jovial forge
BC2 took the cake for its time having multiple trailer bits with humour
dapper bronze
Rather than the actual Battlefield
rigid bramble
The trailer itself is also pretty hard to follow the temporal and geographical logic of. Like, I had to watch a few good tiems to wrap my ahead around what I was even seeing.
dapper bronze
The best bits of the Bf1 trailer were the vehicles and infantry charging together
uneven hollow
Imagine making a normal ww2 game
Dice:
dapper bronze
And the shots of the terrain
uneven hollow
wooden hedge
Bf1 was better than bfv
jovial forge
@uneven hollow
split plank
The problem with the BFV reveal trailer was that they tried doing something different without letting the community know
dapper bronze
And also it was shite
jovial forge
day 1 twitch stream was absolute cancer
rigid bramble
Oh no, they tried to let you know.
They just did a terrible job at actually letting you know.
dapper bronze
Aren't they supposed to idk
uneven hollow
Tbh the trailer was weird like why where they in a game mode
dapper bronze
Get beta testers
And pilot audiences
To see if their game is shite before they release it
uneven hollow
Shouldn’t it be a video trailer an not a in game trailer
jovial forge
@uneven hollow Thats not the first time thats happened. BC2 had trailers like that where it turns out the characters are in a match
near kelp
Are we roasting the bfv reveal?
split plank
Yes
dapper bronze
It roasted itself
uneven hollow
dapper bronze
We're just putting fuel on the fire
near kelp
Cant fight that
jovial forge
we're pouring fuel and throwing tnt at it
uneven hollow
But BC2 did it right tho right or did it fail???
near kelp
We have a list of all the trash that happened?
jovial forge
@uneven hollow BC2 did it right
astral skiff
After I hit tier 40 in chapter rewards then the game will be dead for me. The music will live on.
rigid bramble
Bad Company 'did it right' because they made their intentions with it clearly evident.
jovial forge
@uneven hollow Check this one out from BC2
uneven hollow
I mean if bfv was anime then I wouldn’t mind
rigid bramble
The Mad World trailer, the anti-nade spam trailer. You weren't really supposed to take it seriously. It was supposed to be a fun and quirky game.
uneven hollow
Thank you mike I’ll check it out
jovial forge
No problem. BC2 has couple more to look at to
rigid bramble
Also fun fact: because of this, DICE still doesn't understand why people love Bad Company.
They legit asked the community at one point!
jovial forge
DICE doesn't understand why people liked Bad company despite many people saying it to their face
errant root
Well to start: Balance
jovial forge
Ignorance at its finest
solid hinge
LOL I JUST KILLED SKMEONE WITH THE TITAN
errant root
Classes were extremely specialized and balanced in BC2
jovial forge
BC2's fatal flaw was baserape
rigid bramble
It was lightning in a bottle & it always starts with the right people being at the right place at the right time.
errant root
You deserved getting base raped if you got there, though
rigid bramble
Bad Company was, for the most part, about as sandbox-y as Battlefield got.
solid hinge
So was sbf3
cold trail
Imagine making a game that costs more-per-player than you would make back in initial revenue, while consistently generating high-quality content, being transparent more than any other title in the franchise history, being engaging with an abnormal amount of laymen and genre influencers, and experimenting with a live patching system to help said players for two straight years, only to have said player base bitch and complain the entire way because 'my streamer says...' or 'I follow this toxic person on twitter and their gospel is...' or 'I can't make this myself, but I paid $XX.XX amount of dollars for a market product so my voice counts more than economics or common sense...". 
errant root
The destruction was off the charts
cold trail
Too many armchair analysts.
jovial forge
Not necessarily. BC2 had a static single spawn spot that made it extremely easy to zero in on to kill a base spawn player
rigid bramble
Damn Hydra, you gotta tell me if you're drop numbers like that!
jovial forge
Remeber when attack helicopters circled one spot spamm rockets?
cold trail
The title was great, it was doing some great things, its successor will be greater. That's the legacy of the franchise (with the exception of hardline, that was ass).
rigid bramble
My fifth-grade maths skill need a warning shot first mate!
uneven hollow
Tbh. That was a good transition from video to gameplay
jovial forge
the jab at Hardline will always make me laugh
@uneven hollow Thats good market tactics
rigid bramble
Hardline was unbalanced but it was fun.
It also had one of the series few good stories.
errant root
2 years on, and there are still day one bugs
rigid bramble
Admitedly, by ripping off procedurals but nevertheless.
jovial forge
Hardline's fatal flaw was its weapons balance and loadout mechanics
plus immortal objects
rigid bramble
Hell, Hardline's campaign actually had a great stealth system!
errant root
But Hardline was an offshoot from a B-team.
rigid bramble
Not a B-team. Anotehr studio.
errant root
And it still "wasn't bad"
rigid bramble
Visceral, the guys behind Dead Space.
jovial forge
Visceral got handed a raw deal cus they got Axed by EA shortly afterwards
rigid bramble
And don't worry, for their efforts they were promptly shut down.
jovial forge
EA: Good job Visceral, now die
rigid bramble
Their Star Wars project too.
errant root
They got fucked because EA doesn't understand that AAA single player games need big budgets
jovial forge
Thanos snap
errant root
Apparently nobody wants an open world action-adventure Star Wars RPG
rigid bramble
And they still wonder why people freaking hate them?
errant root
Oh right, EVERYBODY wants that
jovial forge
Correction. Random people in charge that don't have a connection to the market didn't want it
errant root
EA are tone deaf corporate suits
rigid bramble
And then they were blown away when Fallen Order sold like hot cakes!
jovial forge
Suits need to stop meddling in the affairs of the dev teams. Just sit down and count beans
errant root
It humors me though that for all of its faults, Fallout 76 will end up being a better, more favorable game than BFV
rigid bramble
Probably because they didn't bail out.
errant root
Because the F76 road-map for content stretches into 2022
rigid bramble
Hell, BF4 and Battlefront 2 recovered!
gray glade
and cuz they put in more effort to fix it
little osprey
Why u think those businessman care your feeling? People spent tons of money at shitty game/loot boxes
errant root
Yes, but DICE LA fixed those games
rigid bramble
Still under DICE's banner.
muted socket
isnt fo76 an mmo so theres no sequel in sight for a long time to focus on
errant root
And DICE LA is off working on a new IP under Vince Zampella's leadership
rigid bramble
Yep.
uneven hollow
Well maybe true but they could’ve abandoned it tho
Since everyone was taking a shit at it
muted socket
that new IPL: combatlocation
jovial forge
I recall that part of the world started to crack down on lootboxes due to the gambling nature
uneven hollow
But Bethesda was like: ha ha Ima keep updating the game
rigid bramble
My guy, Respawn hit us up with a Medal of Honor VR game.
jovial forge
Then EA tried to rename lootboxes "Suprise mechanics"
muted socket
yeah. pretty sure laws were put in place bc of it
uneven hollow
Then Todd was like who’s laughing now
gray glade
i dont even have A VR set
rigid bramble
Me neither. It still looked great.
gray glade
should be cool tbh
errant root
My guess is that new game is going to be Star Wars, but the rumor is that it is a new IP entirely
jovial forge
This is one thing CoD microtransaction got right. Make a set, put it in the dlc shop so anyone can freely buy it.
little osprey
BF die. MOH back.
gray glade
i think their next game is actually that medal of honor vr game though?
rigid bramble
Which is just so ironic.
gray glade
or do they have 2
gray glade
oh i see
rigid bramble
They're also doing better than most on the triple-A scene.
jovial forge
Rapid growth can be a detriment
rigid bramble
And for that, are actually well respected.
errant root
They have good leadership
split plank
So im guessing nows the time to redownload bf1?
rigid bramble
On the whole, they've got a good everything (setting aside that time a dev called people who play a F2P game freeloaders)
errant root
And EA doesn't fuck with them. More than likely David West & Vince Zampella have a contract that allows them to basically develop their ideas without EA bugging them
Understand, EA as a publisher didn't even know about Apex Legends until 2 weeks before they released it
jovial forge
THANKFULLY! I never uninstalled BF4 and 1
rigid bramble
That was pretty much the terms of brining Vince Zamepella in as DICE LA lead.
muted socket
how did they not know
rigid bramble
They had long played support and proven their worth, Zameplla the same with Respawn.
Sounds like a match made in heaven.
errant root
Respawn was literally like - "oh by the way, we want to release this Free2Play BR game next week"
errant root
Basically
muted socket
woah
jovial forge
Respawn did what we like to call a pro gamer move
muted socket
that impresses me more than it should
jovial forge
Yes respawn just dropped Apex and it succeded
errant root
They created the original Medal of Honor
rigid bramble
No.
Their studio leads came from MOH, they didn't create it.
Steven Spielberg headed MOH's creation under Dreamworks to conincide with Saving Pvt. Ryan.
uneven hollow
Tbh now that I think about it bfv could’ve been worse
errant root
They were involved creatively
little osprey
They make it because they want to get budget from EA. and...they make a great game accidently
errant root
They did lead Call of Duty 4 and MW2
muted socket
what do u mean released out of the blue?
rigid bramble
Nope, they were basically trench runners on it until they got pissed and founded Infinity Ward.
uneven hollow
Like they didn’t do trailers or anything
rigid bramble
They'd then IW over royalties owed and create Resapawn.
uneven hollow
They where like behold bfv at released
errant root
There was a lot with that big 2009 lawsuit.
little osprey
Activision kicked them out
errant root
It had to do with royalties, and the ability to move onto new IPs
Activision was like "fuck you"
Something like 20 people left IW with them to help found Respawn
And to their credit, Titanfall is a great franchise
Apex was an instant hit
Fallen Order too
austere tusk
i hope the next battlefield will be released finished because i think the next battlefield will be the last game to bring back the battlefield community we lost with battlefield 5.
strong swift
battlefield 6 is going to be a very hard sell
people arent going to forget how badly they fucked up bfv
errant root
I also love how they use Source Engine and Unreal 4
neat tulip
for some reason i like the pp-2000 better than most other near-zero recoil guns
muted socket
arent gamers notoriously bad with boycotts
errant root
Depends
strong swift
its not a boycott its just a total lack of trust
errant root
BFV was relatively successful since the game officially only sold about 7.4m units
strong swift
since dice basically destroyed their reputation
strong swift
people are gonna remember this
errant root
BF1 understand sold 23m units
austere tusk
boycotts doesn't work in gaming
errant root
BF4 I think sold almost 20 by the end
modern sedge
boycotts dont work because the people yelling on the internet is the most vocal minority
austere tusk
yup agree
errant root
So sub-8m units is a big drop off for a AAA FPS
muted socket
most gamers dont follow internet forums and stuff
eternal onyx
u r not right m8
muted socket
who
glacial pagoda
strong swift
no but gamers will pay attention to dice basically shutting down development of one of their flagship games
errant root
BF4 was saved by the $15 premium edition that was being sold in 2015
eternal onyx
well a big part of the gamers are usually active here in discord or reddit so..
rocky verge
tbh "live services" and "roadmaps" have become such a joke 
eternal onyx
agreed
errant root
Unless you're CS:GO or R6
austere tusk
or warframe
errant root
Or Overwatch
strong swift
if they have any brains they wont do live service ever again
errant root
Or Fortnite
strong swift
since bfv shows they are horrible at live service
eternal onyx
I've been playing BF1 these days on the Xbox and surprisingly they are full lobbies
errant root
Or any competent successful franchise
eternal onyx
and the game is just fun
errant root
"Live Service" was an excuse for DICE to put out less content with a loose time table
I mean R6 released in 2015 and content is still flying in
modern sedge
live service requires the devs and team to be committed to it, bf2 is prolly the best example of dice properly executing it
strong swift
live service also gives them a way to pull the plug on a game without breaking any rules
errant root
On just Steam, lol
dense bone
bfv is a bit harder for live service considering the map sizes and complexity of the game
austere tusk
battlefront 2 is still surviving with the devs releasing content for the fans thats been playing the game since day 1 lol
errant root
And the incompetence of the studio and publisher
eternal onyx
bfv was a total mess even before the game release
modern sedge
battlefield 5, works better with dlc because of the nature of maps, content waves, etc.
dense bone
incompetence from the only dev team making bf like games?
strong swift
i dont know whos in charge of dice but ea needs to do some serious looking over at whos running dice
muted socket
i feel like i should be mad right now but im not
soft juniper
One reason Dice killed off BF5 is because of braindead Youtubers keep yelling Dice to kill off BF5
dense bone
the closest bf competition is IW with warzone and thats shit
errant root
They seemed to hit off off pretty well in the past - for the most part
rigid bramble
Apparently it’s the new guard who came into charge when a bunch of the old souls left.
soft juniper
"bad game bla bla bla kill this off bla bla bla"
soft juniper
Thats why I hate 90% of clickbait youtubers
errant root
Look at Anthem
muted socket
a lot of the old guard have been there since 1942. dont blame them
austere tusk
EA owns dice so i think EA told dice to end the support for the game.
errant root
Yikes
strong swift
i mean
dice could have just
you know
not messed things up
limber lily
@soft juniper Dice killed off bfV because the team that manages it is very lazy most likely
strong swift
maybe not rush a game
errant root
Like, really delay it
dense bone
people with face value assumptions thinking its really that simple
soft juniper
Yea its also another reason
errant root
Like, hey we need 4-6 months
limber lily
and EA also likely wanted a end date as well sat
rigid bramble
This series was never perfect, we saw it with BF4 especially. But normally it was tech stuff that could get ironed out. “They didn’t have the tech” with BFV because there was hardly a game to begin with
errant root
It really is that simple
dense bone
doubt
errant root
Don't release an unfinished game
dense bone
actually i dont even doubt
strong swift
the team behind bfv or at least the people in charge are either incompetent or lazy
dense bone
i know its not as simple as you guys lead on
limber lily
it isnt EAs fault but its likely this is now the end date but dice teams on bfV just failed on the rest of the time given
errant root
You're just being an apologist
lilac umbra
he is just old
dense bone
bunch of consumers acting like they know whats going on when they are likely still in school or work some basic ass job...
strong swift
ea has some of the blame
but in the end dice is why bfv is why it is the way it is
errant root
I mean look at CD Project Red and Naughty Dog
rigid bramble
It was said that the BFV we got was said to have basically been priced together in about 18/19-months
muted socket
just so we are clear
it is managements fault and not the actual developers
limber lily
@dense bone what are you talking about
strong swift
nyphon just stop
errant root
They seem to hit home runs pretty steadily
dense bone
cdpr nor nd make games as complicated as bf
strong swift
wut
dense bone
hitting home runs is not as simple as making a game
rigid bramble
You know, you don’t have to be a gourmet chef to complain that the soup was warm
errant root
I'd argue they make far more complicated games
limber lily
Nyphon are you a game developer
muted socket
gamingcirclejerk user?
lilac umbra
they make games that are even more complicated than bfv you shmuck
errant root
DICE needs to use better software
limber lily
or ever worked on modding
strong swift
nyphon you need to get off your high horse
near kelp
nyphon, are you having a stroke? because you dont make sense
errant root
Why do you think Respawn refused to use Frostbite?
strong swift
is that why the game is so buggy?
dense bone
the engine is buggy, but apparently the only engine that can handle bfv in the first place
rigid bramble
You mean the “no better software” that Anthem was built on?
dense bone
wheres bfv competition otherwise?
errant root
That's BS
strong swift
you dont have to be a game developer to complain about a game
muted socket
i want to hear what nyphon is saying bc theyre the first person with this pov
jovial forge
Im getting strawman vibes
lilac umbra
frostbite is good if its used right way
muted socket
i mean read
strong swift
nyphon is being dumb
errant root
Lack of competition has nothing to do with software
rigid bramble
The same can be said for any engine
limber lily
every engine is built for the specific games they are made, so the witcher engine indeed may not be able to run bf5 as well, it isnt wrong
dense bone
im getting massive "im an angry consumer and love this circle jerk going on against a company i bought a game off of"
errant root
It's just that historically they've nailed the formula
limber lily
but the bf5 engine couldnt run witcher either
near kelp
nyphon is actually a spy from dice
strong swift
probably
jovial forge
don't assume words for anger
errant root
Unreal 4 can run literally anything
dense bone
im just a consumer, just like you guys
strong swift
most of the things wrong with bfv are inexcusable
errant root
Unity can run anything
dense bone
but i dont try to act like i know exaclty what happened
strong swift
ego much
rigid bramble
Neither do we?
muted socket
what are the things wrong that are excusable
fossil heron
Unreal cant run BF
lilac umbra
if i buy a product and it sucks i have right to be angry
errant root
I don't know exactly what happened either, but I know the game was rushed
near kelp
dont asume that anger =/= being right
dense bone
@rigid bramble certain people here are definitely acting like they know exactly whats going on
lilac umbra
you arent real consumer if you dont know that
jovial forge
Neither do we, doesn't stop us from pointing out things that could of been done better
strong swift
@muted socket the rushing of the game was probably eas fault
besides that most of whats wrong with the game is inexcusable
muted socket
im not angry. im actually more sad 😦 😦
dense bone
but you point things out like you actually know
errant root
You can't tell me you don't think BFV wouldn't be a better product had it released in say March
strong swift
no nyphon
lilac umbra
someone ban this moron
leaden glen
How do you think 
's post-prime life is going to be like compared to 
, which I can STILL find full to near full servers on 
of every game mode with the exception of extremely rare to find Air Assault.
muted socket
they arent breaking any rules
rigid bramble
@dense bone The vast majority of us are sticking to what has been stated and released publicly
dense bone
"bfv failed because they are lazy and incompetent"
strong swift
air assault sucks so its ok
dense bone
ok bud
strong swift
ok nyphon
errant root
it just wasn't a finished game
limber lily
im not sticking with any of yall
dense bone
doesnt mean more dev time will solve its problems...
limber lily
i think ur all wrong and right in some extent
lilac umbra
no shit
dense bone
its been 1.5 post launch and they have worked on it and there are still problems...
errant root
I didn't say lazy, but there was gross incompetence from leadership
leaden glen
@strong swift Is/was Air Assault that bad of a game mode?
strong swift
so that means they ar ebad devs @dense bone
limber lily
Nyphon bugs are super easy to fix
strong swift
if they cant fix it it stil
dense bone
@lilac umbra youre way more likely to get banned than i am
strong swift
then they actually are incompetent
dense bone
@strong swift these bad devs are the only people making a title like this
echo turtle
What about time
errant root
I mean you don't insult your fanbase and tell them "don't buy the game"
lilac umbra
hahaha you funny guy
dense bone
thats not an insult
strong swift
it is
limber lily
barely any time is required to make models and textures lol
dense bone
saying dont buy something you dont like it just logic
errant root
Calling people uneducated?
strong swift
its a stupid pr move
fossil heron
I believe design wise BFV is a great game. Everyone is butt hurt that there wont be more content for it. If you didn't like BFV in the first place this news should make you happy if anything.
rigid bramble
But not for long. COD is happily stepping up on their turf
dense bone
@errant root if they are uneducated thats their fault
errant root
Saying you're on the right side of history?
strong swift
...
dense bone
if you say "nydar sights didnt exist" when they did you are uneducated
strong swift
nyphon please stop
muted socket
credit where credit is due the dude who said "dont buy it" had some balls but was simultaneously stupid
errant root
You've got to be trolling
dense bone
stop trying to play the victim ffs
strong swift
you're just defending dice at this point for no reason
errant root
I still bought the game, lol
dense bone
you guys bought into a product and complain they didnt tuck you into bed
errant root
But holy fuck was it unfinished
limber lily
@fossil heron design is nice but it didn't honestly deliever enough content
jovial forge
Is Nyphon doing that "Don't ask questions, just consume product" bit?
jovial forge
lol cus it seems like it
rigid bramble
They complained they didn’t get a good product? That’s their right.
dense bone
@jovial forge not even close but ok
muted socket
i wish dice tucked me into bed 😦
fossil heron
@limber lily yeah thats because people dipped because of the bugs
strong swift
apparently we arent allowed to complain about a product
errant root
And reviews overwhelmingly agreed on that fact
dense bone
you can complain you didnt get what you wanted, doesnt mean you deserve what you want
strong swift
i mean
dense bone
people want more free content
errant root
I just wanted a proper WW2 game, lol
dense bone
congrats?
limber lily
which are super easy fixes @fossil heron . i think the DICE team in charge of BFV currently should be reviewed at by EA and be maybe given a warning
errant root
That was you know, polished
rigid bramble
Apparently you’re just supposed to consoom product @strong swift
solid hinge
helle everyone
dense bone
@errant root they told you you werent getting a standard ww2 game
jovial forge
Greetings citizen
dense bone
"ww2 like youve never seen before"
solid hinge
I didn't want free content cuz I knew there would be cosmetics in those who look disgusting so I like that premium stuff they had before that was way better
dense bone
what part of that makes you think its 1942 remastered?
errant root
They told me it would be polished
fossil heron
@limber lily its not super easy fixes lol
limber lily
it is very easy fixes
solid hinge
we still on this
muted socket
yes
dense bone
are you bringing up more quotes that you cant actually source @errant root ?
rigid bramble
Just because people hope for 1942 doesn’t mean they expected BFV to be that
echo turtle
They didn't say that it would be polished
muted socket
this is entertaining ngl
strong swift
nyphon is just defending dice because consumers bad
limber lily
bugs arent that long to fix, its the amount of bugs that take the time @fossil heron
solid hinge
a lot of em are
errant root
Listen, I haven't lost all faith in DICE, but they need to really get this next game right. Take all the time that you need.
fossil heron
Bro making a triple A game isnt easy
limber lily
omg that isnt my point
dense bone
@fossil heron it is to these people
muted socket
what are u talking about
i just made one five minutes ago
strong swift
nyphon
errant root
No more "meeting release windows". Release the game when it is ready.
strong swift
@fossil heron i enjoy bfv it is a great game gameplay wise
but the lack of content is pretty bad and the bugs are inexcusable
dense bone
how many mp games are there with 64 people, top of the line graphics/audio, destruction, with infantry and vehicles?
strong swift
plenty
rigid bramble
It’s always funny when people who know nothing about game development complain to each other about game developers & call rank one those who expect a good product
errant root
I mean Post Scriptum is 50v50
strong swift
its almost like other bf games have more content and less bugs
but apparently this one is ok
errant root
And you can fit Hamada into one map 6 times
dense bone
PS only has 50v50, not the other elements
echo turtle
In some cases they're a fucking bitch to fix
errant root
And the netcode is solid. Optimization is solid.
jovial forge
I still think on the PR side of BFV, that was absolute shit compared to previous titles
dense bone
@strong swift compared to other bf titles, bfv does suck, it is the worst, but still you can only compare them to bf titles
because theres nothing else
fossil heron
@strong swift older titles had a slew of bugs but people stuck around long enough for dice to fix them
strong swift
they also had more cotnent
dense bone
with paid for dlc?
errant root
It has tanks. It has gravity based ballistics.
dense bone
go figure...
strong swift
wow its almost as if live service is a bad idea
jovial forge
BFV its the first game DICE have bailed out during a cycle
limber lily
@fossil heron they didnt really debug anything thats the problem
dense bone
@errant root no destruction, no air/sea vehicles, and definitely not top of the line graphics either
echo turtle
Dice stockholm bailed on bf4
errant root
Those things are all coming to the game
dense bone
@strong swift agreed, but theres clearly a difference why one game has less content when its free
jovial forge
DICE LA stuck around though
errant root
It's in early access
dense bone
@errant root when they do then tell me to compare the
fossil heron
@limber lily they did. There's still a couple bugs but for the most part they're gone
dense bone
otherwise its not a competition
limber lily
bro theres still loads of bugs what do you mean lol
errant root
I don't understand how you regress
errant root
That's my issue
dense bone
i think more people are mad here that dice is one of the few dev teams out there than can make a bf title
fossil heron
End of game report and no respawn are the only 2 I can think of
errant root
How do you have such a rock solid foundation, and take 3 steps back?
fossil heron
Name a couple more?
jovial forge
management
muted socket
i mean a lot of people from dice probably left
echo turtle
Bfv's base foundation is a platform made out of toothpicks
dense bone
How do you have such a rock solid foundation, and take 3 steps back?
@errant root become a game dev and figure it out and tell us
muted socket
the whole ship of theseus problem
errant root
A lot did leave
limber lily
theres the bug where your lander goes insane @fossil heron
strong swift
stuttering lagging despite good ping invisible guns bad netcode
errant root
But they left during the trainwreck that was BFV
jovial forge
BF's has a solid foundation but BFV's was toothpicks
fossil heron
Tanks been fixed
errant root
Battlefield 1 wasn't perfect, but it was a complete and polished game.
muted socket
with great marketing
limber lily
i had it yesterday
strong swift
tank repair hasnt been fixed
limber lily
are you sure its fixed
errant root
I don't think ANYBODY expects perfection
dense bone
you guys seemingly have 10x more bugs than i ever had
fossil heron
They said they fixed it lol
strong swift
battlefield v had probably some of the worst marketing ive ever seen
fossil heron
I only have the end of game report
near kelp
everyones battlefield flashbacks
strong swift
like i havent seen such bad marketing before
dense bone
game has rarely been "broken"
limber lily
mustve been 2 bugs causing it then lol
echo turtle
The few trailers that followed the reveal were nice
fossil heron
Only issue i have. I think their live service failed
errant root
The game is still broken, lol
muted socket
i dont remember seeing any marketing for the game aside from the trailers
errant root
How many day one bugs persist?
dense bone
but ive come to learn most peoples definition here for "broken" is theres a few annoying bugs
limber lily
there was one with a foggy look and one with a black vig outlay so that may be why @fossil heron
echo turtle
The marketing wasn't horrendous
dense bone
broken IS a game that doesnt function, at all
strong swift
it was
dense bone
not a small bug that is annoying
errant root
I mean Fallout 76 functioned at launch
fossil heron
I think what killed BFV was the lack of players to support a live service model after dealing with bugs from a dated engine
errant root
Not well, but it functioned
near kelp
borken is when you get stuck after dying because bug
jovial forge
BFV's Worldwide premier trailer was atrocious but the follow up ones were nice. Pacific trailer being the best one
dense bone
@near kelp no its not
strong swift
the reveal trailer and whole trevor noah was horrible and the comments made by staff such as the uneducated and dont buy it if you dont like it
dense bone
broken is not being able to play the game
limber lily
i think what killed BFV is the lack of content for free players
errant root
The Pacific showed that they had it in them.
near kelp
yes it is, because you know, it broke
errant root
Then came 5.2
fossil heron
People still whining about muh women
tranquil bear
Someone BF1?
strong swift
@fossil heron i mean lack of players because the live service was really bad
limber lily
well honestly
echo turtle
The engine is old and bfv shows that it needs to be improved
dense bone
imagine being mad that someone told you not to buy something you dont like
what a joke
limber lily
bf5 isnt honestly dead but its being abandoned most likely for a reason
strong swift
people will get bored if the live service is so slow
and stuff keeps getting delayed
errant root
I don't really care about the women, just don't call it historically accurate - way too many mixed messages in the initial marketing
near kelp
and the ttk gets changed
errant root
Too many buzzwords
fossil heron
@strong swift it was slow because of the bugs
dense bone
"dont like it dont buy it"
"WHAT?! how dare you tell me such logic!"
strong swift
@dense bone when your job is to make people want to buy the game
you dont tell people not to buy it
thats not how advertising works
dense bone
bad move on suderlands part, but hes not wrong
errant root
But The Pacific really did show that with time and resources, they can still deliver
jovial forge
Nyphon is decending into hyperbole
echo turtle
But it's not an insult
dense bone
^
limber lily
guys, the games likely being abandoned for 2 major reasons i can think of, a new BF being announced(unlikely) or it wasnt earning them as much money anymore
dense bone
his job is to get people to buy it
echo turtle
They told you not to buy it
muted socket
i think most devs would probably say the same thing. theyre just not supid enough to say it out loud
dense bone
but telling you not to if you dont want to is not a problem for anyone but him
echo turtle
They didn't call you stupid
strong swift
and telling people NOT to buy it does the opposite of making people want to buy it
dense bone
how you guys take offense to someone telling you not to buy something you dont like is beyond me
strong swift
because you are an idiot
dense bone
sensitive as fuck as self victimizing
near kelp
no, we liked the idea, they just keep insulting us
errant root
I think people just wanted a grounded WW2 Battlefield game that was respectful to the source material
dense bone
doesnt mean you take offense to it
errant root
Not whatever agenda it was they were trying to flail around
dense bone
bad business practice =/= insulting to consumers
errant root
I wasn't offended
jovial forge
their the same thing
near kelp
they are
strong swift
dice tried to claim bfv was accurate and respectful while adding historically inaccurate stuff and literally making a campaign story up about real life events
near kelp
unless you are marketing a sadomasochist game
errant root
I just thought they were tremendously stupid
rigid bramble
It wasn't that alone in isolation? It was his spearheading it as a politcal charge because his daughter didn't know why she could play a female character in Fortnite and not in WW2 where, it is historically evident that females, were they play to play a participorty part, were only in select factions. They threw the baby out with the bathwater and clutched their pearls when people complained.
dense bone
no wonder you guys get mad that someone told you to not buy something you dont want xD
youre illogical
strong swift
oh stop
strong swift
nyphon stop talkign down to people
dense bone
stop being so sensitive and trying to play the victim
jovial forge
Its illogical to tell consumers not to buy your product
errant root
Flat out, they missed the market. Then they recaptured it with The Pacific, then somehow fucked it up again
dense bone
theres nothing to get mad about
limber lily
most of the tanks we have are experimental never really used in combat
strong swift
ok i'm just gonna ignore nyphon
rigid bramble
No, but they get to be mad when they're called uninformed sexists for knowing basic world histories.
strong swift
@limber lily i know it would be boring
so why did dice try to claim they were being historically accurate
solid hinge
yall getting annoying
echo turtle
Think of the cancellation as them turning their attention to the next game
rigid bramble
And that is what people were mad about @dense bone
echo turtle
Or most of it
strong swift
no i'm thinking of the cancellation as them abandoning the game
dense bone
@rigid bramble people have literally just said they are mad they got told not to buy something they dont like
strong swift
instead of trying to fix it
solid hinge
whats the point of constantly complaining about dice and bfv all day
echo turtle
They're not flat out dropping support
strong swift
no new content after june
echo turtle
We'll probably get bug fixes
solid hinge
@strong swift dude
echo turtle
We don't need new content
jovial forge
Id prefer both
next herald
People complain because there actions are futile
echo turtle
If it results in shit like the type 2a 2.0
rigid bramble
In a community as big as Battlefield, you're going to get a sample set for a variety of reactions from the smallest of things to the biggest of things. And people honestly offended by that, aren't worth your frame of mind @dense bone
next herald
Every movement starts with a word
strong swift
no eastern front or retaking of europe?
we dont need new content?
echo turtle
And then people start going off about that
strong swift
literally half of ww2
next herald
You know what he means
solid hinge
people cant comprehend last major content drop
near kelp
they are
errant root
I mean all of my characters in Insurgency are women. Kurdish women fought ISIL. just think having American women fighting in Iwo Jima rubs people off the wrong way, especially when their great uncles, grandfathers, exc were there
rigid bramble
Correct me if I'm wrong, they're just placing the game on support mode following the summer update. But for all intensive purposes, this will be seen as an abandon ship call.
errant root
It is just that having them there is extremely out of place
solid hinge
hmm
fossil heron
My whole armory is misakis
solid hinge
I think they should have restricted women to countries that had them, like if Russia ever got released they’d be available as a scout skin
near kelp
misaki=waifu
jovial forge
Female avatars could of been handled better coming later down the pipe. Misaki is waifu bait fight me
errant root
If the next BF is in the near future, and there are women, I don't think anybody will care
But don't fuck with historic conflicts
solid hinge
how many times a day are we gonna have this convo
jovial forge
forever
near kelp
yes, people love history
muted socket
thats why i left the subreddit
strong swift
@solid hinge ok if they manage to add the soviets
americans in europe
all of the guns that have been datamined plus more
plenty of maps not just 1 or 2
and fix the majority of bugs
then yeah it would be a major content drop
novel blaze
till theyre mot horny enough
echo turtle
A long ass time
errant root
Well this is my first
solid hinge
I kind of like what they did with BF1, where you’d get a random character every time
little osprey
people cant comprehend last major content drop
@solid hinge there is no new content after summer update. They confirmed it on official twitter
rigid bramble
Battlefield One handled diversity somewhat better, it had its creative concessions but the Female Russian Sniper was a pretty authentic implementation and for that, it made her presence for noticable.
errant root
But keep it BF4 style
jovial forge
BF1 handled bringing the ladies on to the field in a stylish way that didn't rustle jimmies much.
solid hinge
yes
strong swift
because the bf1 addition of women was historically accurate
jovial forge
it was more believable
solid hinge
you don’t see female Italian machine gunners flying planes
strong swift
that actually happened
solid hinge
@little osprey ik, but people think that means all the servers gonna close and they still wont work on fixing the game is the point
jovial forge
BFV failed that
novel blaze
whats better than winning a grand operations with devastation end of round theme playing around
that theme is dope
solid hinge
bfv has good music
near kelp
the best part of the game
solid hinge
anyway, what do you guys think of the live service thing?
errant root
I'm sorry, hearing high pitched screams and seeing female Marines on the shores of Iwo Jima absolutely breaks immersion
errant root
I'm not uneducated, it just didn't happen.
jovial forge
Immersion will always be broken or broken swiftly
muted socket
yeah
echo turtle
Hopefully they have enough data to improve it if they go for a life service next game
near kelp
they wont
jovial forge
americans running around with soviet weapons in iwo jima
limber lily
god the medics guns are soooooo fast
solid hinge
live service is fine but I feel like there was too much time between major content drops
little osprey
They just don’t know how to do it rightly
limber lily
makes me annoyed at close quarter maps so much
muted socket
like in bf1 all of the smgs and hip firing lmgs
novel blaze
shit pre eor theme is playing let me play x100 times better
rigid bramble
Eh, immersion is no hill I'd die on. I'd go as far as to say Battlefield as a series always felt like there was a greater importance on authenticity above all lese second only to gameplay, such as the protype weapons in BF1.
strong swift
if you want to make a historically inaccurate game thats fine
but dont try to claim its an accurate game
errant root
But if we're in a fictional conflict, say 10 years in the future.... It's believable.
solid hinge
the automatico is a godsend for us console plebs lol
fossil heron
@strong swift they said WW2 like you've never seen before
novel blaze
V couldve been the biggest thing
the graphics the music the intense brrakthrough
strong swift
thats just pr talk
jovial forge
If the next BF title could have a Misaki that kinda cute. That'd be great thanks 
errant root
You're point is valid, but other games made that a point. BF1 was literally "what WW1 could have been given the direction technology was going"
fossil heron
No that was the tag line for the game lol
strong swift
if dice wanted to go historically inaccurate they should have just gone full alt history
near kelp
the most immersion breaking thing in bfv was that the japanese didnt have giant enemy crabs
echo turtle
I'm surprised they didn't look at/copy other live service models that have been successful
rigid bramble
And honestly? The prototype weaponry did more to inform the audience about the WW1 than if it had been the same stock and standard rank & rifle weaponry! And you can fight me on that.
novel blaze
do you guys think pre eor and eor music will return
muted socket
they can save bfv by selling us misaki body pillows
fossil heron
I agree tho. They should of went full alt history
solid hinge
just cause something works for one game doesnt mean it will work for another
little osprey
I don’t care history shit. I just want to shoot some ww2 guns
muted socket
thats how i feel tbh. history is fun but i dont mind it taking a back seat
errant root
I mean the Hellriegel for example - Hungary ordered 30,000 of them, but the factory that manufactured the parts was destroyed, and hen the war ended before production could be met.
solid hinge
also we’d get to see all the crazy shit that the Germans were cooking up near the end
I got a question can you spectate on premium servers if you don't have premium?
warped rivet
smg08:)
muted socket
im fucking pissed we still havent found a hellriegel
solid hinge
I have premium
jovial forge
This is why BFV's pitches failed.
"WWII like you've never seen before" Proceeds to do all things pertaining to alt history
muted socket
cmon keep looking
solid hinge
@warped rivet v o n k l u c k
errant root
There's 3 in existence.
rigid bramble
Yes. Just filter to DLC maps or expansions @solid hinge
errant root
Only 2 are assembled
novel blaze
imagine a tank superiority game mode where the germans call in the prototype maus for 40k
errant root
Only one was ever fired
fossil heron
There's no hellriegels in existence
strong swift
they should have gone full wolfenstein with alt history
then people wouldnt complain about women and stuff
but no they instead called people uneducated when they complained about female german and british troops in a mostly straightforward ww2 game
solid hinge
it’s probably on some austrian farmer’s wall
glossy locust
The graphics aren't even that good either, at least compared to BF1, ray-tracing is such a useless effect too
gray saffron
i haven't seen any other game where buzz words were looked at so closely you could see the ink
fossil heron
Theres a picture of one
errant root
But they ordered 30,000 of them into production
rigid bramble
That or search Premium into the search or filter bar @solid hinge
solid hinge
ray tracing + BF1 details would look great
errant root
One is in a museum
strong swift
theres no ribeyrolles either
solid hinge
@strong swift thats over and done with, why constantly bring it up
echo turtle
If they took Wolfenstein's approach to ww2 with the axis winning/curb stomping they would've had some fun designing guns and vehicles
fossil heron
Thats not true
errant root
The other is in pieces somewhere
gray saffron
ray tracing makes bfv skyrocket way ahead of bf1 imo. it looks fantastic
fossil heron
No
errant root
The 3rd is privately owned
glossy locust
I have run the game maxed out ray tracing ultra i am telling you you cannot tell the difference while playing it's such a subtle effect
strong swift
@solid hinge i'm bringing up things they could have done instead of what we got
jovial forge
The lack of a 1903 Springfield fills me with sadness 
gray saffron
there's so many reflective areas in bfv. from water puddles to your gun to the windows of a building
strong swift
battlefield wolfenstein would be great i'd play it
fossil heron
@errant root none of that is true
errant root
I'm not sure any of them are 100% assembled or original though
little osprey
A new steampunks battlefield would be great lol
solid hinge
@strong swift im talking about the "but no they instead called people uneducated when they complained about female "
rigid bramble
So... Battlefield except dual wielding?
solid hinge
that would be fun
muted socket
wolfenfield?
battlestein?
strong swift
steampunk bf1 would be good
solid hinge
yessss
novel blaze
V is amazing wish it was the same in content wise ans decision wise
rigid bramble
Wolftenstein gunplay always felt pretty meh to me.
near kelp
the lack of ju-52 is the worst part about bfv
glossy locust
yeah but the reflective surfaces on ultra are still really good, like you have to look down at the puddles to notice ray tracing and even then it's very subtle.
ray traced lighting and shadows is way more noticeable
solid hinge
kamerade let us invade France using this c-47
strong swift
i meant like in style of wolfenstein
you know alt history
glossy locust
like control
buoyant epoch
When did BF4's Final Stand take place at? 2021?
jovial forge
@solid hinge Calling the consumer base uneducated was a dumb move despite being somewhat right. Still should of never been said aloud
always gotta protect the brand
muted socket
going back to it theres currently no hellriegel currently in existence
solid hinge
Didn’t most of the team that worked on BF1 leave?
@jovial forge i never said it wasnt dumb, but its irrelevant at this point and old, why constantly bring it up when no one even cares anymore
strong swift
it wasnt right since the parts of ww2 where women soldiers would be accurate arent in the game lmao
strong swift
@solid hinge i dunno but i do know dice has been losing staff for a while
glossy locust
shreiking woman add absolutely nothing to the game only hurt it and if that makes me misogynist guess i'm misogynist
errant root
Officially there's one Hellriegel in existence - unofficially there's
But officially none of them are 100% OG
solid hinge
or just not care
jovial forge
I still say female avatars should of been implemented when the Russaion faction came in. That would of been awsome
Female tanker pilot preferably
she existed
errant root
And because production was basically destroyed, the official built number is unknown
glossy locust
it takes me out of the game when i see the japenese anime character or here the british woman it's stupid
rigid bramble
eLo oL fWeNd
buoyant epoch
Should have just done alternative history WW2.
near kelp
i didnt care about the women tbh, i cared more about the biotic cricket bat wielding front line british problem
little osprey
COD WWII has women too
jovial forge
COD WWII is a hollywood game
strong swift
cod ww2 is even worse than bfv
rigid bramble
But then the controversy hit its half-life, just like it did with BFV.
muted socket
i thought cod ww2 was okay
solid hinge
when the Germans kill your husband so you buy a tank yourself and enact revenge
strong swift
literally no redeeming qualities
errant root
WW2 was bud, but it was polished
near kelp
cod2 best ww2 cod
errant root
A polished turd
little osprey
People still bought it