But I understand what you mean Raze
#battlefield-legacy-titles
pastel grove
stoic breach
Yeah
desert flare
Maybe not have guns require a bipod to ADS
stoic breach
Yeah, if MMGs had slow ADS speed and needed reverse spread, they would inherently be more passive without feeling restrictive
Like in BF1
MMGs could ADS in BF1
So people would actually run around with them
desert flare
They want you to machine gun nest then punish you for doing just that by nerfing the guns
stoic breach
Yeah
stoic breach
BF1 LMGS/MMGs also did more damage than in BFV
Funny enough
They were 4-5BTK instead of 4-6BTK
Balanced by spread and ADS speed and shit
sturdy osprey
But too much tanks at once how you supposed to take out 4 tanks on one objective?
stoic breach
Well if every class had decent AT, it wouldnt be a problem
pastel grove
implying that tanks push objectives anymore
desert flare
You don't DICE didn't think that far ahead
stoic breach
Having assault as the main AT class just means tanks are only truly threatened by 1/4 of the class roster
sturdy osprey
figures
stoic breach
Support as well if they use mines, but they still have to get up close
desert flare
Also yeah support needs better AT weapons
solid hinge
they're getting lunge mine
stoic breach
So mines just act as slow AT grenades practically
Which is stupid for support
Support needed the Fliegerfaust, not lunge mine
But yeah, AT mines just dont function properly at all, you cant actually create minefields with them
desert flare
Fliegerfoust would honestly make way more sence for support
prime pine
Panzerfaust would be nice
desert flare
They already kinda had them be AA with the MMGs
stoic breach
Assault can be the launcher AT class yeah, but not the exclusive "dedicated AT" class
The MMGs suck at AA thougg
Not enough damage and they CANT AIM UP
pastel grove
tbh
prime pine
Make assault heavy AT while support with fausts just deter
desert flare
Give every class TNT
echo turtle
Why do the Japanese women sound like anime characters?
stoic breach
Support being passive area denial or mortar AT would be great
desert flare
Because Japanese
prime pine
Cause thats our warped perception of it all
pastel grove
Because they are anime characters, just slightly more realistic
stoic breach
Support should've gotten a HE mortar that was ok against infantry, but good against tanks
desert flare
REMEMBER WHEN SUPPORT HAD MORTARS
pastel grove
Frostbite Engine 
stoic breach
Or good at infantry and tanks, but it has to fire red smoke first
echo turtle
Where's the octopus then?
stoic breach
So infantry know when to fuck off
pastel grove
I really fucking miss mortars from BF1
stoic breach
vibe check
modern sedge
Imagine needing an at tool actually equipped
This post was made by repair tool support gang
pastel grove
We have the PIAT but it honestly sucks as a mortar
stoic breach
Yeah, the problem with old mortars was that they werent telegraphed to targets
You'd get fucked by an airburst you didnt know was coming
BFV already has a "friendly/enemy smoke" mechanic
With Arty strike
Just having that with mortar would be enough
desert flare
I remember the BF3 advert where they were like in cod you call in air support. In BF3 YOU ARE THE AIR SUPPORT
stoic breach
Haha yeah, BF3 had some interesting marketting
desert flare
In BFV you call in mortars. IN BF3/4/1 YOU ARE THE MORTAR
stoic breach
Oh yeah baby
pastel grove
I hope Wake gives us naval warfare
stoic breach
But real shit, BFV really needs mortars
Long range AT mortar and close range AP mortar actually
Should be able to scare tanks at a distance
desert flare
I want my Eastern front dlc
stoic breach
Oh yeah, the AT Rifles should've been recon gadgets
Because then you can do some really interesting AT balance with them
desert flare
I want my DP28 and my PPSH and my T34 and my soviet flags
stoic breach
Like if the Panzerbuchse did consistent 20 damage to tanks, but it had really good velocity, like 800m/s
stoic breach
And if Boys AT did 40 up close but the damage dropped off to eventually 12 after like 15m
Idk
stoic breach
Just some cool AT design
desert flare
AT rifles should of just been weapon pickups on the map.
modern sedge
Maybe like bf4 pickups
stoic breach
If they were gadgets, they could be bad against infantry and good against tanks
desert flare
I was thinking exactly like BF4
stoic breach
Battle pickup, they would have to be extremely good at both
But its too situational
AT gadget solves the issue of not being able to deal with tanks at all times
Or any any situation
And if Boys AT was a gadget, it could have high enough base spread where you cant actually snipe infantry with it reliably after 10m
desert flare
I've seen AT rifles used more on infantry than literal tanks
stoic breach
Yeah, thats why high base spread gadget would work so well
Being physically unable to snipe infantry with a gadget made for tanks
But right now, AT rifles are the best recon bolt actions if you dont mind the bipod requirement
Which is stupid, cause they cant be good against tanks as primaries
half wolf
TBH I don't get why they're in the game at all.
stoic breach
So they have to be gadgets
half wolf
AT rifles were utterly obsolete in WW2
stoic breach
Gameplay > realism tho
desert flare
This
stoic breach
Players need worthwhile options
solid hinge
so were women coughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
half wolf
There were other ways to give sniper some kind of AT capability.
stoic breach
Dont say dynamite
Recon isnt suited for dynamite
They could've had the Goliath tracked mine if that got implemented into MP
half wolf
TBH the support AT rocket pistol would've been interesting. Or mines.
stoic breach
Support AT pistols would've been nicer for medic I think
desert flare
Female soldiers don't bother me. What does bother me is not having enough characators that youre forced to use them
stoic breach
I still wish the Tromboncino's grenade barrel was able to be equipped as a gadget
half wolf
Support should've gotten limpet charges or dynamite
stoic breach
Without the bolt part
stoic breach
Yeah, limpets would be nice as an assault gadget, but I wouldnt mind it for support
I say assault because they're timer based, so they arent more passive and suited to support
half wolf
Assault already has a boatload, I'd be happy giving them to support.
desert flare
I hope I can run into walls with the lungemine like a complete knob
stoic breach
Well, assault just shouldnt have AT mines
half wolf
AT rocket pistol isn't passive tho
stoic breach
Or Fliegerfaust
half wolf
Who should have the flieger?
stoic breach
Yeah, so the rocket pistol is better suited for medic
Support
Because Fliegerfaust is meant to be AA denial
desert flare
Support should have AA
half wolf
What's the difference? If you can't kill a plane, then pilots will know that and push the attack harder.
stoic breach
Yeah, but they're suited to support because support's kit should be more suited to defensive or suppressive play
half wolf
Ok valid
stoic breach
You arent going after planes with FF, you're pushing them away when they get too close
So its better suited for support
half wolf
True, but all AA kinda fits that purpose, it's defensive in nature.
If you want to go after planes, you need to be in a plane.
desert flare
I miss conquest Grind
stoic breach
Yeah, but assault isnt an inherently defensive class so yeah
stoic breach
Its why I think limpet charges are better suited for assault, and that they shouldnt have AT mines
Yeah thats the problem with BF in general
half wolf
The issue is, limpets should replace the launcher
stoic breach
People dilute support and medic to "walking ammo and health stations"
half wolf
Because dynamite you need to get close AND trigger it
desert flare
Most support players don't actually use the box just the pouches
desert flare
Same thing with medics
half wolf
you shouldn't let assaults get a launcher and limpets, because that's damage a tanker can't counter through quickly acting
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
but limpets and C4 should be able to OSK a tank from the rear.
stoic breach
Tanks being unable to react is a tank problem though
Its why tanks shouldnt have turret rotation limits, because they lose that reactibility
half wolf
Well the poor 3rd person reticle alignment is a DICE problem
stoic breach
And they should be able to drive faster
stoic breach
And also without turret rotation limit, its actuallt more rewarding to sneak up on tanks
desert flare
MG ammo shouldn't be limited IMHO
stoic breach
Because its a genuine kill, and not "run towards them because they cant spin fast enough"
stoic breach
Haha
half wolf
I mean if you can still get that close to a tank without them spotting...
As a tanker you should always be switching to 3P and checking the surroundings
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
Tankers should be punished for not rolling with supporting infantry or not watching their flanks. I'd say keep the slow turret speed.
stoic breach
But tankers will use 3P to have a safer time sitting at the back of the map
desert flare
Some people don't know thats an option especially on PC
stoic breach
Also since camera movement and turret movement arent the same in BFV, you get situations where your point of aim isnt the same as the tank's point of aim
half wolf
I don't know how to counter the map edge camping. The issue is if you buff tank turret rotation, they'll be come nigh unbeatable against infantry up close.
molten verge
But with a all my dynamites and 2 piats i cant down a tank 😦
stoic breach
Well thats where buffing infantry AT comes in
Right now, AT is based on getting close to a tank
Its why tanks camp so far away
Infantry being a danger to tanks at all times lets tanks be stronger
And tanks will still just be a danger to infantry
Its a much healthier system
desert flare
And any AT sniper gets killed before they can shoot them more than once
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
I don't think that hyperbuffing lethality both ways is the right path. They did that with planes, and you had planes being absurdly lethal and the Flieger being brokenly powerful too.
stoic breach
Well like, tanks arent as untouchable as planes
half wolf
It's not fun to people being farmed.
stoic breach
Tanks still have to use the same lateral movement as infantry do
half wolf
Fair.
stoic breach
Planes are so strong because infantry doesnt have control over the Y axis
rapid hatch
My Update time For the latest Update is 52 hours
stoic breach
I think both would be fine if infantry AT was good at range
molten verge
@rapid hatch wth
half wolf
And it's a lot harder to find cover from a plane, you're right.
stoic breach
But yeah
rapid hatch
For ps4
rapid hatch
I know
molten verge
What was your update time for 5.0?
molten verge
Wth
desert flare
DSL?
stoic breach
The current problem is that tanks camp because being close to AT is too dangerous, and AT cant counter ranged tanks, but if AT range got increased, tanks might not truly be safe anywhere, so they would have to get buffed in kind
molten verge
How does 5.0 update rediculously larger than 5.2 have a time ratio of 3-4:52 hours
half wolf
The issue is no AT can reach out to the distances tanks camp at.
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
I'd say make stationary AT guns a lot more powerful vs tanks.
stoic breach
Even then, stationary guns are situational
Cause you need to have the gun to begin with
half wolf
And let them be able to be pivoted like in BF1.
half wolf
I think if stationary guns were on lots of objectives and were pivotable, they'd be a viable counter to tank campers.
And could 3sk a tank
stoic breach
Also if they couldnt be towed and taken away from objectives
half wolf
Up close, a tank can easily spot and oneshot the gun
I think objs should have towable and fixed guns
stoic breach
The whole towing mechanic is ok in theory, but terrible in practice
echo turtle
It just flies about
stoic breach
I like the idea of towable artillery, but the only really useful one is AA
Mobile AA is alright
half wolf
At range, it turns into a sniping duel of who can shoot better. Flatter trajectory for the AT gun balances out that it can be oneshot by the tank if the driver hits beside the gun and yoinks the gunner with splash damge
stoic breach
Cause it can aim in all directions while being towed
half wolf
Fair
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
Theoretically though assault is getting 2 more launchers: the Panzerschreck and Bazooka
stoic breach
Like, I think the idea of towable artillery is fine, but it cant really be executed probably in a game thats supposed to be as fast as Battlefield
pastel grove
Also towables keep fucking sliding constantly just by using them
half wolf
Does it really need more AT gadgets?
stoic breach
Its more suited to something like ARMA
half wolf
Agreed.
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
Same as soldier dragging
like who the hell thought that would be good in a game as fast as this
No wonder they cut it
echo turtle
Sherman just starts blasting the flamethrower as it approaches
stoic breach
I'd say irs the same mindset as 5.2
pastel grove
+5 damage
stoic breach
Trying to slow the game down
To turn BFV into a modern 1942
Maps are gigantic like in 1942
Gunplay is slow now like in 1942
half wolf
but 1942 gameplay loop sucks by moderns tandards
half wolf
and everyone had gobs of ammo
stoic breach
Apparently the heads of DICE SE dont know that
solid hinge
So...
solid hinge
All of 5.2 should probably be reversed and not only because of the ttk
Except tanks and the you are spotted system
solid hinge
Yeah....alot of the bugs that were fixed are returning
desert flare
You can't even properly unlock guns anymore lol
half wolf
@stoic breach ok random thought, what if the Panzerfaust was treated differently from "assault launchers" and assault had the PIAT, Panzerschreck, and Bazooka
solid hinge
If by spotting system you mean the icon going above people's heads when close then no
stoic breach
I mean maybe if it was a closer range Heat round yeah
solid hinge
You can literally spot them in smoke now
stoic breach
But right now its just a weak splash launcher
solid hinge
And it's super annoying
desert flare
Smoke needed a counter anyways
pastel grove
@stoic breach don't forget the shitty reload
stoic breach
I actually wish DICE would introduce Bangalores as an alternative to dynamite or mines
Yeah haha
pastel grove
I'm super sad Bangalores aren't in Pacific
half wolf
Yeah, if maybe the panzerfaust was given to support with the flieger - directed damage, little splash, good at getting crits/mobility/turret disables, but generally not a tank killer on its own. Basically a slightly buffed AT pistol, but you only get 2 shots
And then medic gets the base AT pistol
solid hinge
Smoke needs a counter?
stoic breach
Yeah bangalores could've been a really great explosive troll weapon
half wolf
Smoke doesn't need a counter lmao
solid hinge
You are aware of the purpose of smoke yes?
desert flare
It had one in bf3/4
stoic breach
Yeah @half wolf that sounds interesting
half wolf
Well yeah, the counter in 3/4 was thermals, right? And you got limited zoom and FOV from those sights, but personally I did hate them
desert flare
I never liked smoke so I'm biased
half wolf
Smoke doesn't get kills, it saves your ass and lets you escape
tbh I think all classes should have smoke grenades
stoic breach
Yeah, like in BF1
half wolf
sacrifice killing power for gtfo power
theres legit no downside
So many times I've wished I had smoke as a support, to reposition my MMG
stoic breach
Well right now medic's 5 smokes paired with SMGs actually make them more lethal
So yeah, you dont actually need grenades with medic
stoic breach
Because you can close the gap too quickly with an SMG
half wolf
been doing that tons
stoic breach
Yeah
desert flare
Teammates smoke actually got me killed more times than it saved me
half wolf
If you know vaguely where people are, you smoke their position and rush in, and spot the Doritos in the smoke. They likely won't see yours since they won;t know where you're coming.
half wolf
Medic spam smoke for every rez, because the revive anim is so slow
half wolf
I'd rather the revive animation be faster, with a cooldown period, so medics dont spam smoke for every revive
half wolf
It should be saved for a push or to gtfo a position about to be overrun instead of to revive one guy
stoic breach
BF1 reviving was really great
echo turtle
I like the idea of having a revive animation
echo turtle
Allows the medic to be killed during the process
desert flare
I do and I dont
half wolf
and if someone is down in the open, maybe you can't revive them because it's certain death
stoic breach
Alot of concepts in BFV are good in theory
echo turtle
But other than that it's pretty meh
stoic breach
All the medic revive animation does is prioritise smoke grenades
And its both too long and too inconsistent
And your camera is locked while you do it
desert flare
I think revive should be done like in the old way but have it not take up a gadget spot like it is now
stoic breach
Yeah, like, if the revive animation was half a second or something
half wolf
Also get rid of squadmate revive ffs
stoic breach
2.5 seconds is really long in a fight
I like the idea of squad revives actually, but it doesnt really need to be in the game
BF was working without it
echo turtle
I have an idea
desert flare
I don't mind it
half wolf
I don't like it, because it means if you kill the medic in a squad, it really means nothing as to their ability to get back up and keep fighting.
echo turtle
You can only squad revive if you have a med pack
stoic breach
Cooldown based squad revive actually
echo turtle
Which gets used after the revive
stoic breach
Not super long, but you cant squad revive too many times
Also medic being able to revive is a good enough utility that they dont need to be healers either
pastel grove
Patting your friend on the back will heal him from any injury
stoic breach
Haha
half wolf
Also I hate that now you can be killed, revived, instakilled again, and are forced to be revived again and can't instantly decline a revive.
stoic breach
Yeah, you lose control as a player if someone tries to revive you
echo turtle
Oh yeah I have a solution for that if Dice is willing to do so
desert flare
I wish the resupply stations didn't take 45 seconds just to get some band aids
stoic breach
You should be able to deny revive
half wolf
Yeah why are they so slow now
I got killed, revived, killed again 6 times in a row before I had enough time to opt out of the revive, it's horseshit.
stoic breach
Players should have CoD-level of health regen
echo turtle
Press y or triangle to deny a revive which will have your character game end him or herself
stoic breach
Medic shouldnt be reduced to "press button for teamplay"
desert flare
Because they want you to rely on your brain dead teammates more
echo turtle
Maybe have the character bring their sidearm to their head
stoic breach
Yeah, being able to force-redeploy from DBNO would be nice
So you cant get revive-locked if some medic wants to grief you
Some people just dont want to be revived as well
half wolf
yeah sometimes I die as a tanker as I'm bailing from my tank that's about to blow up (I know, go down with your ship) and I get rezzed... fucking let me respawn as a useful class please.
stoic breach
Hahaha
pastel grove
Also sometimes a failed revival gives you that Fatal Injury shit
half wolf
It would be nice, therefore DICE won't add it.
echo turtle
Could there be a chance where they add a player suggestion type thing?
desert flare
Dice can't even make weapons unlock properly I doubt they could make gameplay changes like that
half wolf
I got revived 6 times in a row I was just like FUCKING LET ME DIE
stoic breach
I dont think theres any chance for "player suggestions", in the end, everyone has shit they wanna input
So yeah
pastel grove
As if dosing your guy 7 different times with fucking morphine wouldn't kill them
stoic breach
Hahahahaha
Yeah
BF1 revive with anti-revive period would be fantastic
Low risk, low reward revives, cooldown-based with anti-revive period
Perfect system
pastel grove
Also yeah I hate that tanker shit. Don't make me run around with the fucking STEN
half wolf
I get why DICE is just gonna go for an analytical approach here of seeing how many people leave/join the game, but it does feel like they just ignore the playerbase for a large part.
Ok the Sten is fun
but still
stoic breach
Sten is now one of the best SMGs after 5.2
Sten is worth picking over the Suomi now
desert flare
I don't know how they plan to get new players if the base game weapon unlocks don't work
half wolf
@stoic breach don't hate but I'm glad we have fuckloads of ammo now
echo turtle
ahem Year 2 edition
echo turtle
Which contains some of the meta weapons
half wolf
I hated how Medic before 5.2 you were just starved for even one spare mag and I hate it
stoic breach
Now to remove the other parts of attrition
half wolf
TBH attrition sucks as a whole and should be axed
stoic breach
Yeah BFV year 2 edition
half wolf
And with the gobs of extra ammo, the only reason I didn't play medic before was getting 1-2 spare mags and that's it. Now I almost exclusively roll medic.
desert flare
Year 2 just gives you all the previous guns you could just buy with CC. Not the base game unlocks
half wolf
We SAS now bois
stoic breach
Haha
echo turtle
Well you got your ribeyrolles
desert flare
Hope you didn't want to use the stg44 😏
stoic breach
Yea no need to unlock the StG44 when you can buy the MAB
stoic breach
Also Drunkkz3 on twitter clipping with the Jungle Carbine cause he knows its the best weapon now
Its great
desert flare
Its all you can consider if you just bought the game 😂👌
stoic breach
Yeezus
pastel grove
Rip new players
They nerfed everything for the sake of new players
But are also preventing them from those unlocks
desert flare
You're not getting to use that suomi any time soon
pastel grove
stoic breach
No need
Suomi is shit now
Good at 10m < Good at everything after 10m
Type 100 is better than Suomi right now
pastel grove
Thompson still feels okay
pastel grove
Type 100 was already good ngl
desert flare
I wouldn't know I haven't gotten medic rank 20
desert flare
Because EA probably ordered them too.
stoic breach
Nope
desert flare
"Make the game easier for new players"
stoic breach
EA actually gives DICE too much freedom
echo turtle
If you're one of EA's golden boys you're free to do whatever as long as papa EA gets his green
stoic breach
If EA had more control over DICE, they would've had them make BFV a copy-paste of BF1 because it was the most profitable BF game
desert flare
I bet if they let Respawn make a BF game the unlocks would work.
stoic breach
If Respawn made a BF game it would be infinitely better than DICE making a BF game
echo turtle
A bf game running on a modified version of source
stoic breach
Respawn actually knows how to make games in their entirety
Yeah theres that as well lol
echo turtle
Sounds interesting
stoic breach
You right
desert flare
Too bad titanfall 3 will never happen
stoic breach
It probably will, but the world isnt ready for it
Right now, boots on the ground is in
After CoD ruined enhanced mobility
desert flare
Respawn are religated to the APEX mines untill further notice
stoic breach
Activision sees Titanfall
Rips off Titanfall
Nobody wants to play Titanfall because its enhanced mobility
dusk whale
the titanfall series were some of my favourite games
they really managed to mash together the mechs and infantry well
echo turtle
Tf2 would've succeeded if it were slotted in a better quarter and if they had more marketing
stoic breach
Titanfall 2 could've sold at any point in the year and would've done well
With the right marketting
Yeah
desert flare
APEX didn't have proper wallrunning mechanics because they thought players were literally too stupid to figure out how to use it right
stoic breach
EA even failed in their plan to steal sales from Infinite Warfare in the end
Nah, Apex doesnt need wallrunning
echo turtle
Being shoved in-between two heavy hitters was a stupid idea
desert flare
I mean they went wrong
stoic breach
I think Apex at its core is solid, but it doesnt do enough unique shit from other BR
Its just a bogstandard BR, but AAA with a mark of quality
desert flare
Doesn't have to. Just has to be less glichy than pubg and ftp like fortnite
dusk whale
why did pubg die
desert flare
They wanted people to pay for the game
desert flare
Fallout 76 has a BR
echo turtle
And blackout if you count that
dusk whale
firestorm is dead in my region
desert flare
Its trash
dusk whale
fallout 76 is a joke
stoic breach
Firestorm is dead everywhere
echo turtle
We don't talk about fo76
stoic breach
I think Blackout is free now
echo turtle
O rlly?
stoic breach
Funny enough, Fallout 76 ripped off Firestorm
desert flare
Firestorm was a mistake
little raptor
im gonna be honest
stoic breach
Yea
little raptor
the more i play this update, the more im disliking the TTK Change
echo turtle
You have my intrigue
stoic breach
Yeah really the best BR right now is probably Fortnite
echo turtle
Tell me, will I want to chuck a toddler out of the nearest window while playing?
stoic breach
Probably
echo turtle
I'm in
stoic breach
Hahaha
desert flare
People buy battlefield for conquest. Not because they want another fortnite
little raptor
Fortnite is completely different from Firestorm
topaz terrace
^
dusk whale
ok zoomer
stoic breach
Yeah Battlefield BR was a waste of Criterions time
desert flare
Was literally the worst decision they had.
little raptor
Fortnite is about building forts in BR
and cover- Firestorm is about finding vehicles
desert flare
The game needed bug fixes and maps not some game mode nobody is going to play
stoic breach
Fortnite has a much higher skill ceiling and skill floor than other BRs now
The players have evolved the game
Which is kinda cool
little raptor
Honestly, I'd disagree with that point, Razen- its close, but I dont think its the real picture
little raptor
Fortnite has a high skill FLOOR
stoic breach
Yeah, I did mention high skill floor
stoic breach
Both
fervent rune
Someone help
desert flare
titanfall 2 had a near limitless skill ceiling but that didn't turn into sales
stoic breach
Yeah, Fortnite has evolved as a game because of the player's mechanical mastery, which I actually think is really cool
little raptor
stoic breach
Like I wouldnt be able to get into Fortnite now because I would find it too difficult
fervent rune
It's pretty good
bronze rose
i'm in the general voice chat if you peanuts want to chat
stoic breach
TTK0.25
bronze rose
old ttk gang wya
desert flare
I just have come to hate BR as a genre
little raptor
At first I liked that the game was a bit slower, but now that thats the case, you more often see why you lose, and theres just nothing you can do about it
if you dont use a SAR or a Bolt Action, you cannot make a difference in the battlefield- if you want to use automatic weapons, you have to zerg
stoic breach
Thats not even the main issue, theres now just a massive disparity in usable guns now
little raptor
Yeah, I used to think "oh just use them in their effective range"
stoic breach
Make gunplay more suitable for close range while increasing the size of maps
Its not good
SMGs having their range cut down is good in theory
fervent rune
Seriously tho
little raptor
maybe its just Frontlines that I'm playing thats causing that, but now you just cover a flank with snipers and theres not a whole lot you can do
stoic breach
Not when one class only has access to SMGs and bolt carbines
little raptor
maybe I DID like lonewolf gameplay
@fervent rune oh uh... maybe hit one of the bottom left buttons
hit whatever usually said "UI Update"
stoic breach
Yeah, lone wolf gameplay does have a place in BF
stoic breach
Not only is it player choice, but as a squad, what if you wanted to split up to flank more effectively
Now the game is more suited to zerging with teammates
So not only is lone wolf gameplay destroyed, but any hope of some iota of tactical decision-making is gone as well
Your only choice now is to zerg or supersoak enemies with bullets
little raptor
yeah the more I play it, I've hit the enlightenment- I actually liked the cut-throat nature of BFV. it did make the game unique
this just... egh, it feels wrong
stoic breach
Yeah
little raptor
I dont know, maybe its because at my core, I was actually a sweatlord ¯_(ツ)_/¯
stoic breach
Guns are now restricted to their "effective range" making ranged experimentation with range and burst and trigger control completely gone as well
Yeah
No need to burst when guns have no recoil
No need for trigger control when you need to spray enemies for ages
desert flare
the only guns that needed a nerf were simiautos and bolt actions and that was only for bodyshots
little raptor
how could you say something so controversial yet so brave
also i disagree lol
no, keep the 2 hit kills speed of SLRs
stoic breach
Now people are arguing that you need to "aim for headshots" and that it makes the game more skillful, but headshots with particular weapons just shortens the TTK to equal that of other weapons that dont actually need headshots
I would argue semi-autos needed to be buffed
dusk whale
need headshots to kill at medium range with assault rifles
stoic breach
Their recoil decrease was too slow and floaty, so every time you fired, you would lose a few milliseconds of control over your weapon
Waiting for it's recoil to reset
desert flare
Maybe on consoles where you can't really "aim" but for PC lol no
stoic breach
It made using scopes on them annoying
little raptor
theres two things I do not like about the gameplay changes- One, I do not like that equipping an SMG means having to wait before you can begin the action
stoic breach
No its not even that
Its the same for PC
Slow recoil decrease makes your aim too floaty
And especially since console gets a 25% vertical recoil reduction, it would be even worse on PC
Like take the BF1 RSC, spread decrease was super snappy so your aimpoint was on your target extremely quickly by the time you needed to fire a followup shot
dusk whale
i still see AT mines all over runways
stoic breach
In BFV, if recoil decrease was faster, SLRs could actually have more recoil
But you wouldnt lose those few milliseconds of control if you were using a scope
little raptor
And also, I do not like the addition of Arrows in spotting
it gives away too much information for something as easy as just shooting a flare
desert flare
I don't like not being about to unlock guns.
stoic breach
The spotting arrows I'm like half on, I dont mind them but they dont really need to be there
little raptor
They need to be exclusive to the spotting scope
stoic breach
It does tip you off if someone is bipodded though
little raptor
nobody uses it because spotting as your primary function is boring gameplay
stoic breach
Cause their pointer wouldnt be moving much
little raptor
but if it gave super useful information like arrows, then it becomes cool
stoic breach
I dont think thats really worthwhile
desert flare
Its still pretty boring
stoic breach
I think if the arrow disappeared if you were moving would be good
Campers get fucked that way
desert flare
Youre just encouraging the boring gameplay
little raptor
I think MMG's need a "sound effect"
on the minimap
where when shoot, like a radius that rapidly expands outwards tells you "some big danger here"
like mark of the ninja
stoic breach
Nah not even that, the player arrow should just disappear if you move
Thats like anti-information if you're aggressive in a way
Sit still for too long, and your point of aim becomes obvious to people who can see you
On the minimap
little raptor
i dont like that. I think DICE is right that the game is too reaction focused and not aim focused
little raptor
disinformation leads to reactionary based gameplay
so I think the arrows have a space in the game, but I dont think it belongs on the Flare
half wolf
I don't think we need more UI cues about player location... right now I feel like with spotting, player direction arrows, and doritos, the game is set up such that you play based off the UI, instead of playing based off what you see in the in-game "world"
stoic breach
I'm in the boat of "interesting methods of counterplay"
little raptor
my issue is really just how overly powerful the flare is now
half wolf
I think giving MMGs a distinct booming sound and maybe distinct tracer colors would be good though.
little raptor
but what I dont want them to do is just nerf the flare
stoic breach
I wish recon had access to a radar jammer, or support or something
Theres a new method of counterplay
Make flares unreliable if you use them right
half wolf
Audio and visual in-game cues that someone has a MG42 set up - the sound of one of those things was a psychological weapon in itself.
Instead of a map indicator saying "MMG here"
stoic breach
MMGs having a longer bullet tracer would be cool actually
upper vault
I just listened to a pacific soundtrack video and boy the battlefield theme there is the most epic in the game.
stoic breach
Theres some interesting chance for depth of gameplay there
upper vault
I think it’s unreleased soundtrack idk
stoic breach
Longer bullet tracers for MMGs I would actually be onboard for
half wolf
Distinct gun sounds are hugely important to shooters
so you can tell "whoa, that's a MMG"
stoic breach
Thats another thing BF1 does better than BFV actually
half wolf
or "that's clearly an AMR"
stoic breach
Gun sounds are more distinct in BF1
Everything in BFV sounds like a pistol at range
half wolf
yeah
stoic breach
Because gun sounds dont have enough bass
half wolf
I'm really tired of the shitty design decisions DICE has made with this game
stoic breach
BFV is becoming more UI focussed because there arent enough visual cues or audio cues in the game
half wolf
^^^^^
stoic breach
Like, player customisation ruined soldier silhouettes
half wolf
And bad map design makes visibility a problem
stoic breach
If assault players carried their launcher on their back, that would be perfect
Cause you can clearly see its an assault
half wolf
Seriously there was a reason you should be able to ID assaults or medics
fervent rune
How could smgs deal more damage in long range than assault
dusk whale
battlefield is starting to become a more casual version of the game "squad"
half wolf
and even sometimes the friendly player blue UI message is hard to see, and its so hard to tell apart German and British cosmetics sometimes.
fervent rune
Oh God
stoic breach
Yeah
dusk whale
squad is the most hardcore of hardcore games
stoic breach
Friendly players should have blue outlines
fervent rune
And what's this new spotting system ?
stoic breach
Like in Titanfall 2
half wolf
NO
stoic breach
So you dont waste ammo on a teammate
half wolf
I don't want more UI outlines
dark solstice
wouldn't that be a bit distracting?
stoic breach
Its a problem that MW has as well
half wolf
I want teams to have distinct visual identities
stoic breach
MW's visibility is supershit in some areas
half wolf
so Germans don't look like brits
stoic breach
BF1 playermodels were distinct
dark solstice
they do though, germans are greyish, brits are green (minus dead mans hand, but is special)
stoic breach
BF1 also had better map visibility on top of that
dark solstice
Germans look german, brits looks British
stoic breach
Artisan is the same colour for brits and germans
half wolf
@dark solstice there are enough green cosmetics that you can change it
stoic breach
Yeah, BFV's customisation is super scuffed
dark solstice
Partisan?
half wolf
And Brits you can ditch the helmet, and same with Germans and the stahlhelm
stoic breach
Maybe partisan lol
upper vault
If they didn’t implement the camos, maybe spotting changes wouldn’t be necessary?
half wolf
And all of a sudden it's a lot harder to tell who is who
upper vault
If they just made each soldier stand out equally like in BF1
dark solstice
I only really struggle to tell them apart with dead mans hand
and if i get surprised
little raptor
As cool as increased tracer fire would be, I think adding a minimap visual for MMG fire is also a good idea, since it allows deaf players to react as well
dark solstice
thats easy
solid hinge
revert 5.2
dusk whale
i'm on pacific and some people on my team are coloured a dark blue/black and others are tan
solid hinge
plz
upper vault
Until then, the TTK is changing the core gameplay of the game, which was good before.
half wolf
I don't like the idea of overusing UI cues
little raptor
just an audio cue alone wont be enough, since what if you're using bad speakers, mono audio for whatever reason, or as said before, you're deaf
upper vault
Now it’s becoming something that’s.. not good
half wolf
I understand but still, not a fan of overusing UI stuff
dusk whale
yes, we must accomodate for deaf people
stoic breach
Yeah, there needs to be equal audio/visual
The deaf player argument is actually really good
little raptor
not something major, just like a bubble
half wolf
As long as it's a "general area" marker, not a specific dorito for one MG gunner where you exactly know his pos
upper vault
TTK should be reverted ASAP imo, because if you keep it, the backlash might increase.
stoic breach
Because player accessibility is really important
dusk whale
dice doesn't care about backlash
upper vault
Yeah and that’s what’s going to lead BFV downwards
half wolf
@stoic breach maybe like the cloud that is in ghost recon wildlands before you spot somebody
dusk whale
how do they make money from their current playerbase other than the stupid minority that purchase skins
little raptor
I disagree- DICE clearly does care about backlash
dusk whale
they need new players
stoic breach
Hm
half wolf
You know someone's there, you just don't know exactly where
little raptor
they're already getting tweaks ready according to Braddock
barren geyser
Thoughts on the New update?
little raptor
I have converted- I don't like it anymore
half wolf
Also tracers, bright muzzle flash
stoic breach
Yeah, I still think players who are sitting still should get direction pointers in the minimap, not just MMGs
little raptor
the speed of BFV actually gives it a unique edge
stoic breach
Because ANY stationary/camping enemy can be a threat
upper vault
Let’s hope these tweaks revert the TTK
stoic breach
Not just MMGs
half wolf
@stoic breach What about an intensity based thing on the compass for gunfire
upper vault
So far I haven’t found a good gun to use in medic class
stoic breach
I think that would be ok
half wolf
Also the tracers should give a really good in-game visual cue as to where someone is firing from
little raptor
theres something addictive about BFV's aggressive Lethality- this feels like BF1 in a bad way
stoic breach
MW has that, but it sucks because its not implemented well
half wolf
especially for MMGs
upper vault
I spent CC on guns I thought were strong, but now those are weak.
half wolf
Even BF1 felt more lethal than this
stoic breach
Compass-directions for gunfire is great supplimentary information, for your eyes in the centre of the screen
Its not good primary info though
little raptor
DICE's ttk is .3-.5, which is nice
little raptor
I think its sensory overload just having mere fire be indicated on your cetner screen
worldly mango
Question: Are they going to be adding the mastery outfits for the U.S. and the Japanese?
little raptor
I like having it just be on the minimap
half wolf
@stoic breach I mean bringing back minimap blips for individual gunshots (where they stay WHERE THE SHOT WAS FIRED) would be interesting
Would give suppressors a reason to be used again
stoic breach
That would be perfect
upper vault
I hope DICE realizes that people spent CC on guns they used often and thought were effective, because changing the TTK after a year and a half is basically putting money down the drain, well sort of
stoic breach
BF4 has that and its great
half wolf
So if you fire and move, you're fine
stoic breach
Makes people aggressive
little raptor
yeah, I've always liked that system. Countless FPS's have that
Planetside 2 had that, and it was perfect
half wolf
So if you fire and immediately displace, you get a head start
little raptor
also good mind games 
half wolf
or if sustained fire comes from one location, the "cloud" condenses into a more concrete player location
And adds potential for a noisemaker gadget
stoic breach
My ideal system is this: Delayed minimap spot when firing, keeps players moving so they dont get spotted. For spot flares, stationary players get a directional marker if they stay still for too long, to act as an anti-camper system.
half wolf
Imagine, recon with suppressed weapons, noisemaker gadget, etc
stoic breach
@half wolf
Yeah
Minimap firing and directional spotting gives good avenues for counterplay
little raptor
if the almighty braddock can hear us- we would like shot-spotting to come back. you fire a weapon, for a split second you're visible
half wolf
@stoic breach I'd say spotting flares with 2-3 second update "pings", not live data
upper vault
There were datamines of this flashbang gadget thing
stoic breach
Yeah, delayed
That works out
But make it a 0.8 second delay
Also, players relying on the minimap could be fooled by a decoy grenade
half wolf
Oh and have the spotting markers only appear for players close enough
stoic breach
Or a radar jammer
half wolf
So you need to get close to a MMG or sniper to find them
stoic breach
I think anywhere they fire on the minimap is fine
half wolf
As opposed to seeing a blip cross map
fervent rune
Yo panzerfaust is so shit now
upper vault
So shot spotting replacing the spotting in the game right now?
half wolf
I don't want MMGs in entrenched positions to be punished into uselessness. but then again if you're in an entrenched position, people will know where you are anyway.
half wolf
Maybe add bullet smoke trails idk
stoic breach
Yeah, entrenched positions arent exactly stealthy either
Using bullet tracers you can already somewhat tell
half wolf
Also gamesense about where good positions are
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
I'd say MMGs should be very fucking hard to attack frontally due to suppression and killing power (add more spread so you cant snipe cross map), but the counter has gotta be flanking them. I don't want player who are entrenched and defending a stationary objective to be at too much of a disadvantage against attackers.
Because if you're holding a site, you're not displacing.
stoic breach
Suppression should also increase spread like in previous games
That actually gives MMGs utility
half wolf
And if you know where the defenders are exactly, you can just play to the minimap...
stoic breach
Instead of just "camper weapons"
stoic breach
It was actually a great system
half wolf
But real MMGs had a lot of spread, so you wouldnt be able to pick people off cross map
stoic breach
I mean even than, suppression still required you to aim for the head
So you did have to be accurate with it to proc it
little raptor
yeah, I agree- increasing the spread on MMG's is somsehting I totally support
half wolf
That way you don't get long range lasers
well IRL the mg34 was accurate at range
and so was the 1919
stoic breach
MG42 with a 4-5BTK but random hrec would be alright
half wolf
but that gives for more diversity in weapons
stoic breach
All the MMGs could be 4-5BTK like in BF1 and it wouldnt better
half wolf
I still think the cloud or a vaguer ping about where someone fired is better than a more specific map marker.
stoic breach
I mean, it could work on theory
But accurate information helps cut through visual clutter
fervent rune
But I like the new kill/headshot sound
half wolf
Because that way it doesn't disadvantage defenders on fixed objectives as much, and it still rewards being good at camouflaging yourself
The issue is its good at sussing out camping snipers or MMGs, but if you're defending a fixed point, firing just tells the attackers exactly where everyoone is
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
So I think there's a balance that needs to be struck
And again, MMGs are based around stationary gameplay so there needs to be a mix of "fire and displace" as opposed to having to always be on the move.
But without devolving into corner camping all match.
stoic breach
Suppression coming back would be a good reward for being able to remain stationary
half wolf
Yeah, and basically encouraging flanking attacks.
Maybe if you're suppressed you lose the minimap blips
"losing concentration" or something or other
half wolf
Yeah
MMGs should be about lane denial through killing and suppression, not cross-map sniping
stoic breach
The problem is snowballing though
half wolf
Snowballing?
But the issue is all of these changes would require a total rework of how BF5 is built and played. Which will never happen.
stoic breach
Like if you being suppressed leads to you getting killed by a random sniper you would've otherwise known about on the minimap or something
Yeah
half wolf
I mean if you're being suppressed from the MMG you lose the blip for him
stoic breach
Yeah, I didnt know if you meant the MMG minimap spot or everyone's minimap spot lol
half wolf
But also suppressing people to enable a flanking attack would be DOPE
Since that's what MMGs were used for offensively
ebon shoal
why is BFV suddenly having performance issues wtf
stoic breach
Yeah
barren geyser
Only in Battlefield
stoic breach
The suppression nerfs actually simplify the game alot
half wolf
Well yeah, it turns purely into who can kill the fastest
stoic breach
And I know its a casual game and all, but nerfing suppression just leads to people thinking its a good idea to stand still and shoot back
half wolf
no more complex infantry tactics
stoic breach
I think its more about depth of gameplay than tactics
But you can generalise it by saying "options"
half wolf
I loved that in BF1 you could actually kinda do bounding movement, MG provides covering fire, assaulters push up
Rinse and repeat
But yeah
less options
simpler if you don't wanna put effort into a more complex balancing scheme or gameplay loop (cough DICE cough)
but less fun
stoic breach
Yeah
I get that
I dont think players generally use "tactical forward thinking" while they play
half wolf
Yeah, just run and gun
idk it just felt cool when it actually felt like a firefight at times
stoic breach
But yeah, with suppression that provides some depth to how players can react to situations and assessment situations quickly
half wolf
giving covering fire to suppress folks when attacking or retreating
stoic breach
Yeah
half wolf
Meh, I think I'm done with this game for now. There's not that much I enjoy about it anymore.
stoic breach
Reactionary gameplay is actually good, because giving players options while they react can lead to some quick thinking in the moment which is always nice
Yeah
half wolf
thats why they should give smokes to everyone
stoic breach
Like if a sniper aims at you and you're in his sweetspot, you can suppress him to make him lose aim
Yeah
Thats powerful reactionary counterplay
half wolf
But that's only if he A) misses, B) scopes in too long, or C) exposes himself
so the sniper can still... snipe
But c'est la vie. DICE has their own vision for how they want their games to be played. And this ain't it.
stoic breach
Yeah
BF1 was a good vision for the series, just needed alot of tweaks to tighten up the gameplay
half wolf
tbh if BF1 was reskinned and tweaked for world war 2, it'd be a better game than what we have now
stoic breach
Yeah
BF1 with BFV-style gunplay would be really good actually
The problem people had with BF1's gunplay was that it was intentionally less intuitive to be more challenging for players
serene patrol
the best thing about BFV is the live respawn map
if you look veeery closely you can see where the infantry are
serene patrol
like bombing on fjell for example lol
when waiting just look and see where half the team is
prime pine
The stg44 is unironically the best assault rifle
tulip flare
Don't hate me but i main Stg and Lewis Gun
spring stump
Unnerving the guns there shit now and it so laggy
plain temple
k
i regret everything i said about the suomi
its
its literally a peashooter
but i appreciate everytime im struck down by a suomi instead of a thompson
tulip flare
i actually like the ttk changes
solid hinge
why
tulip flare
I don't like games where you die quick i guess
solid hinge
but i dont like games where you dont get kills
in time
when you're repeatedly pressing your fingers
against a trigger button
plain temple
imo i like some of the ttk changes
but the ke7 now
i might actually become a support main at this point
tulip flare
Just aim for the head and you should be good to go
plain temple
j-just aim for the head?
tulip flare
yes 
stoic breach
@itreachesout#3207 I forgot to tell you I had to go lol
tulip flare
Np i know 
uneven oxide
American Flim Flam makes me so happy
plain temple
whats that
uneven oxide
Skin
zenith tartan
So ranked private servers will allow you to complete assignments. Yet no TOW progression allowed.
solid hinge
12th dec @tawny spear
solid hinge
yea map looks cool
solid hinge
it's a dlc in bf3 I think
tawny spear
is there any place like dragon valley in ww2
because that would be a nice map to BFV
solid hinge
don't know really
hybrid dock
wake was in the back to karkand dlc for bf3
solid hinge
we have 2 years left with patches so some new maps will come I'm sure
tawny spear
the map that i never touch nor hear to be honest
i only remembered playing it on bf 1942
wet gorge
someone mute me
hybrid dock
Dragon valley takes place in Minshan Mountain Range, China. In BF2
wet gorge
so i can see that muted channel again
tawny spear
Am I the only one who is bored with tight close corner combat
hybrid dock
and then takes place in costal china in bf4
tawny spear
I played MW for 30 mins and already getting nausea out of it
red verge
anyone getting main menu text problem ?
ionic girder
In BFV?
red verge
yes
ionic girder
Did you just install update 5.2?
red verge
yeah already install
ionic girder
Then you probably have text that "looks_like_this."
red verge
yeea
ionic girder
There should be a button somewhere on screen that says apply update.
solid hinge
and this update got me to ditch BFV
ionic girder
Yeah, me too. I'm finally tired of it.
ionic girder
I don't think I'll find a satisfying main until BFV is either fixed or until Insurgency Standstorm releases for console.
Or maybe go back to BF4.
ionic girder
I hear it's slowy dying.
red verge
noo
ionic girder
So it might have trouble gaining traction.
But no, regarding BFV, I'm tired of the team trying to appease us with these updates.
red verge
Hmm
gilded vapor
Why do people hate BF5? i like it
ionic girder
At this point I don't want a middle ground that is kind of satisfying. Seeing them use the Pacific as a "we're back" piece then jumping right back into the same things that made year one bad makes me sick.
I like BFV.
I really do.
I played it every day for a year.
flat matrix
bf5 its not so bad... they just fucked it up with that new update
ionic girder
I agree. I suspect they might try appeasing us again by "fixing" the patch and it's values. Though that's a guess.
stoic breach
Yeah 5.2 was a massive oversight
ionic girder
I have trouble supporting a game that introduces its own problems that aren't in line with what core players want.
flat matrix
ttk is so shit now in bf
stoic breach
Guns being balanced for their "intended ranges" means that weapons arent balanced for the maps they're trying to add to the game
Half the weapons are now only viable for close range
In a game where people want to play on big maps
Like, no wonder people always resort to recon, its lets effort to aim at long distance than to try and close the distance and risk getting shot at
heavy meadow
i play recon at ~40 metres so
ionic girder
My hopes are set in them literally taking the spotting changes out and completely reverting the TTK, but I honestly doubt they'll do that.
heavy meadow
if you're camping at another island, don't expect to get kills
flat matrix
fuck recon