battlefield-legacy-titles

[solid hinge]

Well what they need to do first off

[prime pine]

Im very cautious of any clan boy in my game.

[solid hinge]

is make it so that you can easily differentiate clan member from others

[stoic breach]

Hm

[solid hinge]

Because I play with a clan and it's hard grouping ourselves up

[stoic breach]

@prime pine whats your xbox live name

[midnight nimbus]

I would join a clan if teamplay were as good as BF4's

where playing in a big group means something

[prime pine]

There was this one match two days ago. I got fucking drunk and guess what. I won for my team cause i played the objective so fucking hard with the fg42.

[stoic breach]

[prime pine]

They helped me. I helped them.

Check my profile. Gamertag there.

[stoic breach]

Yeah weird

I don't recognise you

[prime pine]

I got top of the leader board. 72-15 compared to 39-16

Ahhhhh

[midnight nimbus]

I just want BF4 degeneracy back 😩

[prime pine]

We probably have fought but quickly forgot.

[solid hinge]

define degeneracy

[stoic breach]

Haha

I want medic assault rifles back

[midnight nimbus]

completely denying the enemy of using their vehicles

bc SOFLAM is dank

[stoic breach]

I've learned to desire it

[solid hinge]

you mean like base rape or?

[prime pine]

I just want medics to have their semi autos once again.

[solid hinge]

that's denying the enemy the use of their vehicles

[midnight nimbus]

yes i love base rape

[solid hinge]

I do too

[prime pine]

Base rape is boring.

[midnight nimbus]

but no you don't need to base rape to do that

SOFLAM

[prime pine]

Oh that reminds me.

[midnight nimbus]

instagib everything on the land or in the sky

I remember one game in the Dragon Valley remake

enemy couldn't do anything

helis just kept dying

[stoic breach]

Haha

Sounds so bad

[solid hinge]

They're honestly overpowered

I get the idea but honestly

too toxic

[midnight nimbus]

that's why they were banned in comp

but they were underpowered in pubs

bc BF players are too stupid to use SOFLAM well

[prime pine]

There was this one session in bf4 where my friends and i were playing with each other. I was gunner for one of the tanks. So when we captured one of the objectives i took the tank. One of my friends who was already having a bad day took over my gunner seat on the other tank.

Seconds later

Somebody fucking

Suicide bombs the tank in a bike

We hear the biggest "OH MY GOD" and we get reduced to tears.

[midnight nimbus]

something BF1 lacks that BF4/V have, which I honestly appreciate BF1 for

you can't deny the enemy of their ability to play the game

[prime pine]

Suicide bombing is annoying as fuck but oddly effective.

[solid hinge]

was it on operation firestorm?

[midnight nimbus]

BF4/V just have incredible potential to make the game unplayable

also suicide bombing isn't even that good in BF4

[solid hinge]

No it's fairly effective

[midnight nimbus]

it's only really effective against bad players

[prime pine]

It depends

You can flank tanks and take them out

[midnight nimbus]

or ig it's good on console

[solid hinge]

you can easily use it to get tanks which are repairing / stationary

[midnight nimbus]

bc people can't turn

[solid hinge]

also you can load 8 c4

's on a jeep

[prime pine]

I usually load three on a quad

[midnight nimbus]

but jeeps are so incredibly easy to shoot and see

even the motorbikes

ez target

[solid hinge]

I mean yeah they are

[prime pine]

Now we have people sticking mines to their transport vehicles and driving into tanks.

[solid hinge]

you need to be careful about it

[midnight nimbus]

it's only effective against bad players

but it's fun

[prime pine]

Yeah you can suicide bomb even with an mrap but the guy has to be a fucking dunce to get killed by that

I did it once. Guilty pleasure.

[midnight nimbus]

I miss playing with friends

and using PLD + SOFLAM

so no one in the enemy team was allowed to fly

[prime pine]

I dont really play with friends as much

[solid hinge]

I don't and honestly the game is much better in a clan / with friends

this game with randoms is absolutely terrible

[midnight nimbus]

I miss the undying tank pushes in BF4

multiple rep monkeys make tanks invincible

[prime pine]

Welcome to my world. Tuammi.

[midnight nimbus]

you need like 5 frame perfect RPGs to take one out

[solid hinge]

you can still have rep monkeys do shit in BFV lmao

[midnight nimbus]

yeah but it's not as OP

still fun though

I rep monkeyed one of my friends up to 100-2 once and the chat was absurdly salty

people get mad when their PIATs do nothing

[solid hinge]

speaking of piats

they removed the panzerfaust ADS thing from alpha

now how are you gonna aim well with it

[midnight nimbus]

the same way you did before

just point it at what you wanna shoot

[solid hinge]

Well yeah but you need to make sure about the arc of the rocket

[midnight nimbus]

you still have a reticle

[solid hinge]

fair enough

[prime pine]

It would be nice if you could carry 5 panzerfausts max

[midnight nimbus]

who uses the sights to track the arc anyways

just know the drop and press LMB

also

[solid hinge]

I was asking because there's an actual method used to calculate your trajectory with a panzerfaust

[midnight nimbus]

why are you using the Panzerfaust

[prime pine]

Its a lighter rocket i believe

[green elm]

why aren’t you using AT mines

[solid hinge]

Never really found the piat that usefull

[midnight nimbus]

PIAT is better at everything

[prime pine]

At mines plus impact grenade is beautiful.

[midnight nimbus]

there's nothing the Panzerfaust can do that the PIAT isn't better at

[solid hinge]

also I use faction accurate weaponry for my loadouts lol

[green elm]

piat loads way faster and that seals it for me really

fuck yes, double AT mine and impact grenade is glorious

[midnight nimbus]

imagine how unplayable the Germans would be if everything were faction specific

can't use Webley

[prime pine]

It would be nice if assault got impact nades.

[midnight nimbus]

the revive syringe is an Allied model

[prime pine]

I can't be bothered with the webley personally.

[solid hinge]

you can use the STG tho lol

[round umbra]

Hi dads, is the new battlefield 5 update is bad as everyone on reddit is saying?

[solid hinge]

no

[midnight nimbus]

who cares about the StG

[solid hinge]

the bfv reddit is gay

[green elm]

remember hardline when cops got defibs and terrorists got syringes

[round umbra]

It is gay you're right

[midnight nimbus]

Allies get MAS-44 and Turner

[solid hinge]

told ya

[midnight nimbus]

and 1907

[green elm]

or thompson 👀

[solid hinge]

Speaking

[round umbra]

I just got back in and download battlefield four and its dead and I'm sad so I think I'll try 5

[green elm]

thompson is glorious

[round umbra]

who wants to carry me

[midnight nimbus]

the new BFV update tanked my performance

won't play again until it's fixed

[prime pine]

Germans get Gewehr 43. Sturmgewehr series ans the stg. Dunno whats so bad about that.

[green elm]

@midnight nimbus what do u think of light bolt thompson

[midnight nimbus]

it's gud

[solid hinge]

I wish that you could equip faction specific bolt actions for each class

[green elm]

it’s all i’ve used lately

it’s a glorious 1v1 weapon

[solid hinge]

I think one of the BF4 hardcore servers are still pretty active

[midnight nimbus]

yes I want the Boys on all classes

[prime pine]

The gewehr 43 is such a good weapon. But dont you guys find it weird that it got buffed frok the beta?

[midnight nimbus]

the Brits have the only good bolt action as well

[solid hinge]

there was an MiA PC server a while back but it's dead now

[prime pine]

Fg42 all the way!

[solid hinge]

no like

BF1 had bolt actions for it's classes

[green elm]

lee enfield best bolt

[solid hinge]

er, all of it's classes

[prime pine]

I do like the ross

[midnight nimbus]

yeah Standard Issue Rifles was horribly balanced garbage

[green elm]

krag is the best imo but i can’t use it cuz dice broke the animations LMAO

[midnight nimbus]

bc for the maps, one side will inherently have the better gun

[prime pine]

You're more likely to see be with the selby 1906/RSC

As a recon

[green elm]

smle always punked the g98

always

[mystic wolf]

asymmetrical warfare is fine

[midnight nimbus]

if BFV is ever fixed

just gonna main Boys

asymmetric warfare is fine when it's well designed

which it rarely is in BF

[mystic wolf]

i dont mean asymmetrical balance

i just mean straight up asymmetrical 😎

[shut brook]

mkay I decide to boot the game up for the first time in a month and a 30GB download starts

[mystic wolf]

you sure it isn't just doing that file check thing?

[shut brook]

not sure, maybe?

[solid hinge]

Asymetric warfare is pretty hard to balance

only game which has properly done it was RS2 vietnam

as it's vietcong vs US marines

[midnight nimbus]

R6S does it well

a lot of games actually do it very well

[solid hinge]

Insurgency also

[shut brook]

would L4D2 count?

[midnight nimbus]

CSGO does an excellent job

[shut brook]

or does it have to be legit shooter?

[midnight nimbus]

RTS games do it well in general

BF has never done it well

[solid hinge]

Battlefield should try something like asymetrical vehicle balance

[midnight nimbus]

part of that is bc conquest is terrible for asymmetry

[solid hinge]

so, for certain maps based off of historical context

[shut brook]

don't thye practically do that in V tho

[midnight nimbus]

asymmetric vehicle balance is garbage

look at BFV

[solid hinge]

Well it needs to be done right

also need to balance certain tanks and towables on certain teams

[midnight nimbus]

also asymmetric vehicle balance is dumb without asymmetric modes

so basically it's fine if you kill every mode except for breakthrough

and one side has to always be attacking

one is always defending

[solid hinge]

Yeah it needs to strictly be Attack/Defend

well It can be frontlines

[midnight nimbus]

frontlines is not asymmetric

[solid hinge]

or maybe a front/back tug of war version of breakthrough

[round umbra]

So the new update IS aids

so I should wait?

[solid hinge]

tell that to my team camping D

[midnight nimbus]

no, bc that means there's more than one attacker

and more than one defender

[round umbra]

Can I have anime girl emblems in 5

[solid hinge]

Sometimes frontline matches end up just like breakthrough

[round umbra]

if not trash game 0/10

[solid hinge]

Oh yeah they do

which was what I was getting to

also IRL alot of invasions which are attack/defend can go back and forth

[grizzled lake]

The new maps looks great

But still a bit too big lol

[cursive oak]

Lots of real estate south of D and between A and E, map trailer showed 5 flags.

Could use some work but it’s a good map. Gorgeous too.

[sacred junco]

not liking mercury cq

its like a BF1 map

incredibly snowbally

not like Devastation where you can make headway into flanks and salvage things

Instead you are forced to climb c or go towards a long ass offcap

[soft storm]

mercury on conquest is ass

It plays like assassins creed odyssey

[sacred junco]

games so ball so fucking often

There isn't really a close match

[soft storm]

It plays like Just Cause 3

[sacred junco]

its a game about locking people in

you lock em in they are fucked the whole gamne until they fuck over the other side somehow

D cap is vulnearble

E cap is fairly vulnerable

[soft storm]

Also

[sacred junco]

A is so fucking far away and insulated from anythign

[soft storm]

The asymmetric balancing on the map doesn’t work if one side loses 2 of their vehicle spawns

[sacred junco]

Goddamn

[cursive oak]

Isolated

[sacred junco]

people shit on maps in BFV but I liked em in general

never felt like the design shat on me

Mercury I really do not like

[solid hinge]

im convinced mercury was supposed to have boatd

[sacred junco]

boat don't really help

[solid hinge]

in the trailer it had two more points

objectives

[soft storm]

I’m convinced it was supposed to have boats too

[solid hinge]

if it was bigger and had boats you could actually flank and stuff

[cursive oak]

Seems like it could be a lot bigger of a map

[solid hinge]

as it is now it... sucks

[sacred junco]

The issue is the flanks are so damn long

and not rewarding to take usually

and once someone has C they have a huge advantage

[solid hinge]

spend 5 years flanking to capture A and then get mauled by a squad jumping on your head from B

[sacred junco]

D and E are all visible from there

[solid hinge]

yeah I dunno what they were doing with that

you can shit on D and E while inside C's capture zone

like

that's awful

[sacred junco]

The best part of the BFV maps are that all caps are fairly contestable

[formal valve]

Damn I love mercury breakthrough

[sacred junco]

and even shitty teams

[solid hinge]

I wish mercury was larger honestly

[sacred junco]

can at least try to back cap in most cases

[formal valve]

Just got 1st place went 29-12 with a Kar with iron sights

So good

[solid hinge]

they could include the runway and the island

[cursive oak]

Island is sniper haven

[formal valve]

I think mercury actually takes place on the second day of the invasion

[solid hinge]

maybe not island then

[cursive oak]

Would promote bad gameplay

[solid hinge]

just the runway

[formal valve]

Since on Breakthrough the airfield is the objective at first

[sacred junco]

This is like something like anBrusilov Keep

[formal valve]

I think it takes place on May 21st, the second day of the operation

[sacred junco]

where a team shat on keep getting shat on

[cursive oak]

Include the Achi Baba wannabe area that the Brits fall back to on Breakthrough

[solid hinge]

The runway and the ruins from breakthrough aren't in conquest at all

it seems weird not to include such a large amount of the map

I do feel like the map is a bit small actually

[cursive oak]

They act as spawn

[solid hinge]

also the runway should be the british side

[cursive oak]

Same goes for a lot of maps

[solid hinge]

as a plane spawn

[sacred junco]

Map is too open. Its fun once you have C

but everywhere else is a pain

D cap I have issues with

since people can just keep pommeling from c

[cursive oak]

I was saying earlier there’s a lot of real estate south of D and between A and E on the hills

[solid hinge]

I've been just flying the whole time

[midnight nimbus]

bc BFV has a comeback feature baked in

the concept existed since BF1

but BFV made it a reality

losing teams get turbo cap speed

I think it's like 64x cap speed at its max

or 128x

[solid hinge]

I think they might actually make the map more larger later on

for mercury

128

pog

That can be a totally new patch

they worked on panzerstorm

[sacred junco]

Even then that rarely helps in Mercury since map is a bit more laned and doesn't really promote any backcapping to be done

[midnight nimbus]

the comeback cap speed multiplier makes being all capped a bit more tolerable

[sacred junco]

I mean there isn't an easy way to back cap B as a British

A is too far

[midnight nimbus]

yeah bc BFV transports aren't very good

[sacred junco]

D is too open once things are fucked over

[midnight nimbus]

vehicles in BFV are too slow for backcapping to be really good

[cursive oak]

There was a tweet I saw from Danny where he asked about the missing two flags. Julian replied with “you’ll see”

[sacred junco]

its not even an issue of speed

[midnight nimbus]

and people don't know how to squad swap to make backcapping truly effective

[sacred junco]

its too vulnerable

[solid hinge]

I think that's a good thing

because conquest needs to feel satisfying

[midnight nimbus]

I don't think vulnerability is the issue

[solid hinge]

it's not fun when 10 of your points are backcapped

[formal valve]

This is the best Breakthrough map since Panzerstorm

[midnight nimbus]

look at the premiere BF4 backcapping vehicle

[formal valve]

I love it

[midnight nimbus]

the motorcycle

[sacred junco]

Back capping is feasible in most maps still even Panzerstorm

[formal valve]

Mercury is so good on Breakthrough

[sacred junco]

There isn't a quick vector to backcap beside the coastline

[formal valve]

Especially the third sector

[sacred junco]

and there is too much clutter to really drive through the destination in the city side

best thing to do is hole up in a building and try to fuck over everyone else before capping

Mercury is a lot harder for the defense I think

[solid hinge]

Does the map feel too cramped to you guys?

I dunno I look at it in spectator mode

it looks large as hell but when I play it the map feels too small

[sacred junco]

Its less the space and more that there are too many vantage points and chokes

C opens up too much vision

[solid hinge]

Ohh yeah

gives the impression that the map is smaller

[cursive oak]

Does the M1897 spec Trigger Job give it slam fire?

[sacred junco]

Im just a bit disappointed. Its the opposite of Rotterdam, where you have a lot of vectors to move and cap in

[midnight nimbus]

why doesn't DICE just reuse old layouts that were good

I guess it's hard to manage alongside attrition

[sacred junco]

even with the hypercap speed for the losing team really can't do much

[midnight nimbus]

and the attrition depots

[sacred junco]

I mean they did a fine job for most maps for me

Mercury feels like borked

[midnight nimbus]

but many older layouts were based af

[sacred junco]

BFV maps have great layouts imo

[midnight nimbus]

like wtf is the Rotterdam CQ layout

[sacred junco]

Its the best one

[midnight nimbus]

spawning both teams from the same side of the map

devastation layout is good bc it's basically Prise de Tahure

[sacred junco]

Prise de Tahure just becomes a merry go round too often

Rotterdam breaks up a lot of points does a decent job of shifting focal points imo

[solid hinge]

i haven't played a single conquest map that hasn't been a merry go round

[midnight nimbus]

bc that's how conquest is played

it's a merry go round

[solid hinge]

other than mercury cause there's no merry there's just suffering

[sacred junco]

Triste i mean literally tho

[solid hinge]

[sacred junco]

people running in circles on a wheel

[midnight nimbus]

that's how to optimally play conquest

in a pub environment

[sacred junco]

No the most optimal way to win CQ is to be the guy the single handedly fuck over cap attempts while the merry go round is on

and Rotterdam gives a lot of opportunities to break the flow

[prime pine]

I always attack A and D

Theyvre the easiest points to attack

[sacred junco]

Mercury just feels like Brusilov mk.2

and that map was a pain in CQ

some ways worst than Tsaritsyn since its easy to get trapped if enemy has the two center caps locked on

[midnight nimbus]

defending isn't worth it when you look at ticket bleed

when you have high coordination, holding is best

but realistically, the merry go round is the easiest way to bleed

[sacred junco]

but that goes both ways

if nothing is breaking the cycle

the only way to win in an even scenario is just killing better

[midnight nimbus]

nothing breaks the cycle, it comes down to kills

exactly

[sacred junco]

and one man isn't enough to do that

better to cap and bleed

[midnight nimbus]

so constant offense is best

[sacred junco]

and also break the cycle

[midnight nimbus]

easier to zerg than break the cycle

watch even exceptionally good players play CQ

like Ravic, who plays in a stacked squad

breaking the cycle isn't really that worthwhile

for how difficult it is

when you're that good, you bleed tickets the best just killwhoring

[sacred junco]

Its just incredibly rare to see teams win with less caps from just killing better still

[midnight nimbus]

when the merry go round is played, cap count is generally very similar

also getting more caps is easier when you're killwhoring well

[sacred junco]

breaking caps is easier than it seems still if played right

but if youre just in the merry go round

[midnight nimbus]

this is what the muh PTFO crowd doesn't get

[sacred junco]

you are just capping the same point as everyone else

maybe faster

[solid hinge]

i can't force my team to play defense and I can't stop the zerg solo

[midnight nimbus]

maintaining momentum and killwhoring fast is the best way to win in pubs

[sacred junco]

and people don't exactly all zerg in one cap

[midnight nimbus]

getting tons of kills matters

[sacred junco]

Ive had games where I get shitton of kills

[midnight nimbus]

yes, BFV doesn't allow you to have much agency solo

[sacred junco]

only to see that enemies keep back capping

and win with leaders having 5k less score

its a rare moment

[midnight nimbus]

if your team is being stupid, you're still often better off being stupid with them bc you have little agency as an individual

[solid hinge]

i still persist the best way to play hamada conquest is cap the top 3 points then go afk in the spawn menu until one of them starts being taken

[sacred junco]

but still I as a killwhore coulnd't stop that even with 50+ kills

[midnight nimbus]

in BF3 you can stem backcaps well

[sacred junco]

but then that team was actively backcapping

[midnight nimbus]

9 RPGs as an engineer

[sacred junco]

constanlty going behind and capping

[midnight nimbus]

mortar fire as a support breaks zergs well

assault is obv incredible

[sacred junco]

they are not playing optimally if they aren't zerginng there

[midnight nimbus]

well constantly backcapping is playing the merry go round

they played it better than you

[sacred junco]

people weren't super shitters in my team etiehr with most kill stats better than the enemy

[midnight nimbus]

constantly capping > defending

[fresh shale]

Seems hard to find anyone to play with here, does anyone know any other places or methods?

[sacred junco]

But not in a zerg

defending and backcapping are almost hand in hand then

since if everyone is backcapping

then you are basically backcapping and also defending back caps

[midnight nimbus]

maintaining your gimmes to prevent backcapping isn't as rewarding as going for backcaps yourself

bc offense > defense

[sacred junco]

yes, but smaller maps back capping is pretty limited

if you are zergining

and enemies are backcapping actively

you are forced to deter backcapping

because you don't really have much space to backcap then

[midnight nimbus]

yes, but in BFV, you don't have enough agency as an individual to deter backcapping effectively if your teammates don't decide to do so with you

point is, conquest is just a fundamentally flawed gamemode

chain link in BF4 fixed a lot of it

defending your rear flags actually means a lot

[sacred junco]

it is random but the mere fact of being a spawn beacon can help break flows to some extent

[midnight nimbus]

breakthrough fixes how cancerous CQ spawn trapping can be

and frontlines actually puts the brunt of CQ gameplay front and center

see: why I refuse to play CQ

[sacred junco]

That's mostly because CQ requires a lot of work to make it flow

[midnight nimbus]

CQ doesn't flow

in the vast majority of scenarios

because there's no frontline on the vast majority of maps

[sacred junco]

it flows the best BFV so far imo

The ones with clearer frontlines tend to break more often though

[midnight nimbus]

chain link is what CQ should've been

or RS2V's supremacy mode

[sacred junco]

I mean I understand most CQ maps kind of suck because its either merry go round or getting locked in place

but I thought BFV CQ maps made them flow a lot better in general. More than enough for me to play this more than any other BF game after qutting the franchise for a while

[solid hinge]

drink more water and all of those will be fixed

[sacred junco]

Its still a casual game, but it made it more fun for me to play casually

I wish I can play other modes in BF1

But nobody plays em

[midnight nimbus]

man chain link replacing conquest would've made BF so much better than it is

[sacred junco]

would make sense to

[midnight nimbus]

the truth is that people have trouble juggling more than 3 objectives at a time

it's just conquest, but only a few flags matter at a time

so going for that far cap actually means a lot

defense means a lot

and you actually have a frontline all the time

can't merry go round

[sacred junco]

Issue I see if the map gives one side a advantageous position defense has no means to counter it by circumventing the team

and its not like frontlines where you are kind of timed in the offense

so if something like Mercury was chain linked to C

it would be wonk with people in C having a much easier time advancing usually

[midnight nimbus]

the emphasis on momentum made this a pretty big non issue in chain link in practice

but yeah, you can't cram it into any map

[sacred junco]

Modern BFs extremely fast respawn and spawn locations really destroys the sense of momentum in most cases

Frontlines kind of forces it by taking turns on who gets to be where

but if its slow it would be pretty frustrating and boring

Maybe DICE should start considering making an FPS that doesn't have the BF name

they are constantly making new modes anyways

so they don't need to keep making a game the checks of all the requirements of a BF game

big maps, combined arms, conquest, 64p, etc.

[solid hinge]

They just took down the only fucking battlefield 1 server in Oceana

Are you serious

Why dice

Why

Not funny mate

🖕

Large scale chainlink is what bf should do

Theres still Oceana BF4 servers, why TF did they have to take down bf1's only server

[opaque cipher]

Because it’s shit

lol

[solid hinge]

It was always full

[opaque cipher]

Not a lot of BF1 players in general around Oceania

On average 4 has 2 full at normal times and 3-4 at peak hour

[solid hinge]

No, I know, and it pisses me off

[opaque cipher]

5 on the weekend and 7-8 during holidays

1 has 1 on normal and 1 and half in peak

[solid hinge]

WTF

I'm still pissed I can't play BF1 anymore

[opaque cipher]

Abandon it

Go back to 4

[solid hinge]

Ughhh

It was such a good game

[opaque cipher]

[solid hinge]

BF5 has been ruined

By black female Nazis

I don't care what they where trying to do with the customisation but it didn't work

[opaque cipher]

It’s how it is in Oceania

[solid hinge]

🔪 ✊

Seriously

[shrewd grove]

lol Australians in 2019

[opaque cipher]

Rent one yourself then

[solid hinge]

Yeh, like it will have players

[opaque cipher]

Exactly

[plain temple]

whats up guys

I was wondering if anyone had seen the guns in the dog tag menu that arent added yet?

[opaque cipher]

Yeah they’ll be added soon™

[hybrid dock]

lul Oceania in 2019

[fresh shale]

Wish I could find a group or even just a person to play with doesnt seem to be many people on when im awake lol

[bright harbor]

new map out yet bois?

[shrewd grove]

Mercury has been out for almost a week

Marita and another map are coming next

[solid hinge]

!roadmap

[shrewd grove]

!roadmap

[junior mist]

:information_source: https://media.contentapi.ea.com/content/dam/bf/common/bfv-towcalendarvertical-chapter3-5-updated.jpg

[shrewd grove]

New roadmap is coming later this week

[solid hinge]

kk

[gray glade]

any info on the new mode yet?

[vocal steppe]

@solid hinge black female nazi's? I can't find them in my game🙂

[solid hinge]

XD

Outpost? It's a weird one

You capture these propaganda station things

[vocal steppe]

@gray gladewe should get new infos at Monday i guess

[solid hinge]

Can be reinforced and rebuilt if destroyed

If you look very closely you will occasionally spot a black female Nazi in your game

[shrewd grove]

Id imagine early this week is when wed start getting info

[solid hinge]

someone said a bunch about it a few weeks ago

[vocal steppe]

@solid hingereally 🤣 hilarious that is. Unfortunately the game is not playable for me right now. I will look into it after the next patch though.

[solid hinge]

I wounder if DICE is working on the Combat Roles

[stoic breach]

Black female nazis

Wrong game mate

[solid hinge]

I seen no black female nazi in BFV but ok

[stiff reef]

why can't i find any servers in bf1?

[sonic rampart]

Use server browser

[stiff reef]

no results found

[solid hinge]

I can't find any servers in BF1 either, @stiff reef where do you live

[stiff reef]

europe

[solid hinge]

Oh, good, I thought they'd taken down the Oceana servers because of the player base, glad I'm not the only one

enable full servers

[stoic breach]

Its just not big in oceana

[solid hinge]

Done that, my favourite servers aren't showing up either

[stoic breach]

Then its just not being played

[solid hinge]

I know it's not big in Oceana but there's always one server that always full no matter what time of day

[stoic breach]

Yeah on xbox that was team death match

[solid hinge]

It's the only actual server in Oceana

[stoic breach]

Yeah

[humble venture]

Guys in the newest weekly debrief DICE responded to a comment saying that Elites are gonna stay 990 boins

[stoic breach]

Oh thats good

[solid hinge]

Huh

Interesting

im not surprised

[prime pine]

G'day Celestine!

[solid hinge]

hey Way 😃

[prime pine]

How ya do?

[solid hinge]

good thanks, just waking up.. and you?

[prime pine]

Pretty good! Lots of halo.

Do you think the Heat Shells should do more damage versus churchills?

[solid hinge]

I think they need a buffing yes but not the damage they do but their tolerences

ie hesh shells are way easier to use right

[prime pine]

Yeah. It would be nice doing 30 damage at the front but leaving big boi engine damage the same.

Yeah thats the issue at the moment. Cause. Hesh just obliterates. Hesh shouldnt be nerfed but its competitor should at least have more of a boom.

[solid hinge]

its the valentines in all their different versions need nerfing, its getting a little crazy

[prime pine]

Yeah they keep buffing their damage.

A tank destroyer should stay a tank destroyer but a 6PDR shouldn't do the same as a 17PDR

[solid hinge]

you know like in the war if a valentine found a tiger it would run away, not the other way round

[prime pine]

Well. I am doing that myself but i think they do a little too much damage versus the tiger.

[solid hinge]

Valentine feels easier to use in general without counting the sheer firepower it has

I hate going up against one

[prime pine]

Heat shells easily 3HKO valentines but the zeroing is so fucked on the tigers scope

I dont know whats wrong with it.

[solid hinge]

The zeroing actually works on scopes?

the valentines sweet spot is so smol

[prime pine]

The little triangle thing is so weird

[solid hinge]

German tanks are much blockier than the allied ones

[prime pine]

And yeah celestine just smack the turret in a front on battle.

Heat shells do 45-54 damage

[solid hinge]

I really hope they speed up shell swap times

The heavies have to wait for ages to swap ammunition compared to the medium's

anyway I dont use the heat shells, I chose the s mine launcher every time, especially on tight maps like mercury

when will the Firestorm prejump glitch get fixed?

Next update they said on reddit

things like this should have been fixed right away

I think I got about 10 kills last night with the s mine launcher

[prime pine]

Yeah i understand that for sure. I just find the heat shells so... Addictive.

[solid hinge]

Spicy

[prime pine]

Heat and hesh shells are crazy

[solid hinge]

I can't bear using the tiger up close

it's too slow it makes me cry

thats why s mine launcher, but its all about timing

[prime pine]

I wish it neutered dynamite

[solid hinge]

that and you have to use the hull in aiming a tiger up close

I did try that but I ran out of ammo too fast without the extra shells

and hauling tiger ass back to a resupply takes years

[prime pine]

But yeah usually i stay away in a tiger that even if i do get surprised. Ill just free aim and blow anyone up.

[solid hinge]

It was nice actually having defence close up though

Way, does xbox have the same weird aim delay in first person in tanks?

[prime pine]

I go infantry killer for my panzer IV. its soo fucking good.

Yeah

[solid hinge]

Damn it

It seems intended but I can't imagine why

[prime pine]

Its a habit for me to go third person and then scoped

[solid hinge]

It's horrible

[prime pine]

Cause "realism"

[solid hinge]

something I learned in BF2142 that still works, there the tanks were a lot like these ones, huge and clumsy up close, splash shots and hull spinning make it useable

Yeah I try to scope as much as possible but it makes close range defence a pain

[prime pine]

Oh god. Imagine going fucking crazy trying to smash someone with your tank. Celestine.

[solid hinge]

You're stuck with inaccurate 3rd person and zoom

[prime pine]

Cauae those have the floaty tanks?

[solid hinge]

yeah lol

The first person is basically unusable cause of the input lag

[prime pine]

And yeah. I only go third person at close range infy.

95mm howitzers just... Help so much with that.

[solid hinge]

having actual splash damage does help a lot

[prime pine]

Ever since splash was buffed. Going free floating panic aim thing helps a lot.

Cause i was surprised when i got killed by tanks like "shit. I lived?"

[solid hinge]

i was watching some xX_Pro_Xx tank gameplay and people on PC were using first person for close range defence and like.. I want to be able to do that too

[prime pine]

Not i lived. I meant "i died?"

Yeah

People would get so used to it

[solid hinge]

What about plane MG strafing run splash damage tho

thats another thing, sometimes you just get lucky and win, bailing robs you of that and gives the enemy a free tank

tfw strafing runs are an all or nothing

I've seen people bail before when I'd just ran out of ammo

Which is like.. you would have killed me

But now I get a tank

Hooray!

[prime pine]

Hahaha

Yeah i love stealing tanks

Whenever i kill the tanker without destroying the tank i'll keep it intact for a teammate

But people dont seem to get the hint

[solid hinge]

How do you kill the tanker I. The tank

Gotta hope they jump out

Sometimes if im low on hp I jump out and manually repair it from the outside

I thought you used the Boys rifle to shot threw the tank and kill them :/

I wish

That would make tanking quiiite frustrating though

I like flying planes more

Same!

Nice sense of freedom

The AA tank is to easy to kill

All you do is crash you're plane into the tank and it dies

I would fly more on mercury but its harder honestly

Most fun I had with vehicles was in bf1 with battleships and torpedo boats

The AA tanks are in a weird place

You try flying in a snow storm trying to dodge rocks and bullets

I do legit enjoy flying on mercury

Yeah it's fun

Half because the map is so small I can actually get air to ground kills

But it's hard to counter dogfighters

It's more calm when you own the sky on Mercury

Oddly on the new map more but it's just me honestly

I've been getting lucky and having teammates for meatshields in the air

Feels like war thunder sometimes lol doesn't it

Ayla just get a bomber and bomb the bases

I like fighters!

I can barely see anything on the ground so bombing is less fun for me

Fighters are my favourite

Speedy little things

On the other hand I like big fat tankd

Do you like the Stuka ?

Yes!

The b2 Stuka is really nice

Those cannons are brutal

And it's still pretty agile

Do you use the bombs in them

Nah

The b1 Stuka has the big bombs but I'm no good with bombs

I like the massive cannons on the b2

Just drop the bombs on the bases that are being capured and you'll get 3 kills atleast

[glacial berry]

@solid hinge im a surgeon with Bombs. 😎

[solid hinge]

Now I feel uncomfortable

[glacial berry]

Wait till you are loosing an objective. And drop your load all over it.

[solid hinge]

Welp night/morning

[glacial berry]

@solid hinge night

[torpid wharf]

Fucking hell its so damn buggy

[solid hinge]

Ain't that the truth

[sly vault]

woooo gotta love black screen

it's the best fucking map

[solid hinge]

My favourite map is “server disconnected”

[prime pine]

The 37mm's on the stuka have been nerfed to death

Splash damage is what helped it against tanks.

Now thats non existent

[solid hinge]

I remember they got shafted a while back but I'm pretty sure they're good with direct hits now

[prime pine]

So now they're bomber killers.

I dunno.

I wish they weren't nerfed for the final time.

[solid hinge]

I can kind of understand it

They were such a pain at full power

Was shitting on everything

If you got behind a fighter you could even take them out

[prime pine]

Hmm

[solid hinge]

The cannons are super accurate and fast firing

I like their role of precision destruction compared to the Ju-88 c

[fiery quarry]

Is there a discord for battlefield squad advertising? Like join a professional group etc?

[solid hinge]

If you look in the platform rooms #lfg-playstation etc I’m sure you’d find what you’re looking for

!lfg

[junior mist]

:information_source: <> Looking for Players to play with? Head Over to the Looking For Group Channels in the (#LFG) Channel Category.
Please remember to state your region when looking for players to play with!
#lfg-pc #lfg-xbox #lfg-playstation

[solid hinge]

there are people looking for new people in there all the time

[ivory geyser]

Are you looking to add people in your platoon, etc?

Because we limit our advertising to a point

Or if you're only looking to play with other people, as Celestine said you can look in the LFG channels

[silk mist]

I have done the ultimate achievement in Battlefield

Get a DICE dev dogtag

[ivory geyser]

🤔

[native mural]

🤔

[silk mist]

He was cool about it 😛

[ivory geyser]

What are you talking about?

[solid hinge]

must have knifed a mod

dev sorry

[ivory geyser]

😕

[silk mist]

I knifed a battlefield dev in game

Which awarded me with a dev dogtag

[ivory geyser]

Oh I see

Didn't know that's a thing

[silk mist]

It's pretty rare, only encountered one other dev in game but didn't manage to knife him

[ivory geyser]

I mean, forget Dev, I can't even knife a normal player

[silk mist]

I tried a knife only CQ match a while ago, if you really focus on it and change playstyle you can rack up some sweet kills

[native mural]

Got a bunch of knife kills in bf1, but not in v =/

[solid hinge]

I got and have a lot of bayonet charge kills in BF1

[silk mist]

Cool he added me as a friend, what a nice lad

[solid hinge]

tfw you get killed by someone who's player model got frozen mid animation facing 180 degrees away from you

[hazy wasp]

enemy hit 150..

[echo glen]

How difficult are the Mercury ToW missions?

[hazy wasp]

piece of piss

[echo glen]

Good.

I'm burnt out with this game man

[glacial berry]

@silk mist @native mural
Over 3000 knife kills BF3
700+ on BF4
300+ Bf1
And on my way to
500+ knife kills bf5

[ivory geyser]

@hazy wasp I like your PFP

[silk mist]

Jesus christ

You maniac

[glacial berry]

Ty 😎

[echo glen]

The melee god

[solid hinge]

Mercury just came out and Marita is next week. Map drop is getting hot eh?

[echo glen]

Finally.

[hazy wasp]

@ivory geyser my PfP?

[echo glen]

Now they've dropped the ball and it's rolling

Hopefully the game can revive itself

[ivory geyser]

Your profile picture

[glacial berry]

Ahh it wont let me post the pics

[hazy wasp]

ah cool 👍

was from a set they did for Infinity war i think

[glacial berry]

Just checed battle log.
Bf4. Is 1,074 with shank.
And bf1 is 753

I tried to post the screen shot. But it wont let me

[hazy wasp]

oof

direct hit froma piat

my body is currently in the upper atmosphere

[glacial berry]

Got love those Tank shots across the map right into a plane 😎

@silk mist i just posted a vid from bf5 beta. My 5 knife kills in a 1:30
Its in Videos and streams.

[hazy wasp]

WHAT THE eff, dude just absorbed 25 bullets froma tommy gun at point blank range and didn;t die

[sly vault]

quality hit reg as always motherfucker was 1 metre away from 0 fucking hitmarker

[solid hinge]

Servers die so quick for me every full server I join the next round will have like 15 people in it

[hazy wasp]

Oh my ping is just akl over the place today apparently

[solid hinge]

tfw you get a krag headshot for 190 damage and they dont die

I'm not fucking with this

[hazy wasp]

lol

[sly vault]

quality gaem

[hazy wasp]

im on an Eu server and have a p[ing of 89

[solid hinge]

That's not even failed hitreg cause I got the points I dont know what the fuck happened there

[hazy wasp]

what the fuck ISP

[glacial berry]

My ping is on avg 77

[sly vault]

a good latency for me is like 32 or less

[solid hinge]

Mine was 9 until they got rid of UK servers

Now I’m around 20-25

[sly vault]

but since my friends are on other servers i get 270

[solid hinge]

relatable

Try playing with an Aussie

[glacial berry]

270 ? Ouch

[solid hinge]

tfw they remove UK servers and my favourite game modes and break the animations on my favourite gun

[hazy wasp]

mines usually 34-39

[solid hinge]

Ping has random spikes to like 450

[glacial berry]

@solid hinge they are out to get you

[solid hinge]

not to mention broken hitreg, squad members constantly leaving mid match, 3 tank teammates who get 4 kills without dying all match and bottom score

Germany may have lost the war but they have the severs now

I want to play something other than recon but I cant because my squad is dead all the time and it takes 5 years to run back from the point

[glacial berry]

@solid hinge try palying with friends. It helps the swuad mates leaving. Mid match

[hazy wasp]

lost by 10 tickets 😦

almost pulled it back

[glacial berry]

Play medic then. Keep them alive

[solid hinge]

It's so much easier to do better with friends I almost feel like I'm cheating

[glacial berry]

Nice.. Got to love those close games

[solid hinge]

Theres no way I can keep people who run into 5 mmgs alive

[hazy wasp]

Oh because i have to use single shot bolt actiosn all the time, when I get to play medic or assault its like beign a super soldier

[glacial berry]

Lol sure there is... Toss med packs

[solid hinge]

I love it when I tag a camper while I’m downed and the medic in my squad doesn’t kill him and instead just runs in the room and gets killed

[hazy wasp]

''so I don;t have to hit every bullet?''

[sly vault]

i hate latency...

[hazy wasp]

or better yet

''I can fire more than 1 bullet''

[glacial berry]

Not all medic guns are single bolt action

Use the Tommy gun 😎

[solid hinge]

Still wanna know why they chose the KE7 as the starter support gun it’s so noob friendly

That's probably why

[sly vault]

not to mention the team balance (if it even exist) is trash so most of the time it's a 18 vs 32 player match

because people just leave

[silk mist]

Nice vid man!

[glacial berry]

@solid hinge you just answered your own.. Well Non question

[silk mist]

gimme your tags

[glacial berry]

Ty man 😎

[solid hinge]

It was mostly used by China too so it’s probably just their way of being “quirky” and “unique”

[sly vault]

?

[solid hinge]

The KE7

[sly vault]

yes i know that thank you but what did you want to say by that

[hazy wasp]

holy shit i really can;t play with that high a ping haha

the rubberbanding alone is putting me off

[solid hinge]

What did I want to say?

Eh?

[random rock]

high ping you say, I had 700 a few days ago

[solid hinge]

The balancing is the worst

I dont understand why it's so shit

How can their balancing get WORSE after all the games they've made

[sly vault]

^^^^^^^^^^

[hazy wasp]

the BOY's AT is gon get nerfed

[random rock]

because their greed get higher

[sly vault]

really?

[hazy wasp]

itll be nerf'd v infantry buffed v vehicles

[solid hinge]

Fuck the boys honestly

[hazy wasp]

nah my gut is telling me it will be going by a lot of games last night

[solid hinge]

Fnfjjffjdjendn the top 4 on the leaderboars are all in 1 squad

All medics

[sly vault]

can i post vids here?

[solid hinge]

All gor 50 kills and like 5 deaths

[hazy wasp]

even if it did 90 damage max it'd be awesome but 100 is a bit lol

[solid hinge]

Theyve killed me like 20 times combined and im not even mad. Theyre so good

Medic Rambo

This guy with a zk beats me every time

A zk! Mad respect

[random rock]

medic meta 🙃

[solid hinge]

ZK doesn’t even need a bipod change my mind

[random rock]

I don't know why it has one

[solid hinge]

For light bolt memes

The zk is super good

Sadly someone out there uses the bipod

[random rock]

seen too many ppl using it like an lmg

[sly vault]

i think getting killed by a BOYS is better then getting killed by some idiot on the rooftop of the arras church with a mmg

or smth similar

[graceful prairie]

dont diss mmgs

they are far harder to use than boys

[random rock]

they're easy

[sly vault]

and how?

[graceful prairie]

play them

[solid hinge]

MMGs are hard

[random rock]

we have, it's point and click adventure time

[glacial berry]

Lol when you snipe 200m with your MP40 😎

[sly vault]

nice

[solid hinge]

I dont respect those who use suomis though

Fuck them

Suomi mains are so annoying

[hazy wasp]

the Ribey as well could use a look at

idk if its just me but each death to it feels iffy at best

[random rock]

ribey is fine

[sly vault]

hahahahaha "imagine having a low rate of fire" brought to you by the suomi gang

[glacial berry]

I personally use all guns..
All classes are max rank.
And im going thru getting every gun to level 10

[solid hinge]

Its been literally 60 seconds into this match and this suomi user has gotten 12 kills

0 deaths

[sly vault]

anyway my fav medic guns are probs the mp40 or the tommy

[solid hinge]

Not reviving

No squad

I like how some of the guns that have a bipod like Ribey, ZK etc don’t actually need a bipod because they are already super accurate

[opaque cipher]

Suomi slays

[hazy wasp]

the high capacity SMGs are hilarious

[sly vault]

it does

[opaque cipher]

You just get into any close quarters and hipfire everyone down

[hazy wasp]

''Want 6 kills with 1 magazine? say no more fam

[solid hinge]

Suomi all gold is nasty

[random rock]

I hated the thompson so I used the soumi for a long time, but now I use mp40

[sly vault]

all gold on weapon is nasty (personally)

[opaque cipher]

This is why I’m a fan of the extended pan Lewis

[hazy wasp]

MP40 has better range than those two

[opaque cipher]

A bit of downside with screen vision but worth every other bit

[solid hinge]

All of my deaths have been to suomi users

[hazy wasp]

MP40 is alsoa little more versatile + the reload for w.e reason is pretty predictable in gunfights if that makes sense

I can tac reload it confidently where as the tommy or suomi i'm not as sure of

[random rock]

same

[hazy wasp]

probably because the MP40 is so much like the UMP

[random rock]

plus it melts with hs kills

[hazy wasp]

mhm

Irons are good too

[solid hinge]

Watch dice nerf a gun that isn’t OP and buff a gun that is already pretty good

[opaque cipher]

Maybe one day low zoom stuff don’t shake like crazy whenever you move or fire

[glacial berry]

I dont know what my fav gun is yet...
Outside Mass 44

[opaque cipher]

Really throws off some of the longer shots

[hazy wasp]

Lee Enfield for me

[solid hinge]

I main kar98

[hazy wasp]

LE + 1911 + Throwing knives is such a wild time

[sly vault]

i wish there as like the mg08 or parabellum lmg in bfv...

[hazy wasp]

i used to Kar98 and its still good but that bolt cycle on the enfield is far superior

[random rock]

I feel like 1911 got a texture remodel or something

[glacial berry]

I want the m1 grand. But the one in bad Company 2.

[random rock]

be careful what you wish for (ports the exact texture model over.)

[sly vault]

will the m1 garand be added to recon or assault?

[random rock]

assault likely

[glacial berry]

It should be assult

Maybe support

[random rock]

maybe just give it to everyone ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sly vault]

support? m1 garand?

[hazy wasp]

Garand to assault, Springfield to recon

support BAR

Medic Grease gun

[sly vault]

as bf1

of course

[glacial berry]

On BC2 it was support. But assult and Support have mixed up roles now. So its a toss 😂

[hazy wasp]

honestly class dynamic in this game is all over the place

[solid hinge]

I want a smg that turns into a super accurate auto aim shotgun whenever i see mg42ers or suomiers or camping snipers so i can eipe their face off of the battlefield

[hazy wasp]

Recon might be the only somewhat balanced class, as in its underpowered

[opaque cipher]

[hazy wasp]

Medic isn't bad

[opaque cipher]

Medic is in an ok spot

[glacial berry]

Isn't that the Drilling ?

[solid hinge]

Nah fuck that get a full auto smg that fire V1 rockets at them

[opaque cipher]

Recon is here and there depending on the guns

Drilling got stealth nerfed a ton

[hazy wasp]

1897 is best boi now

[glacial berry]

I just want my slug rounds in a shot gun with a 6x scope..

Viva Sniper shotgun Robaz 😎

[sly vault]

i just want a good latency when playing with my friends and good team balance...

[hazy wasp]

we can all dream

i think my issues are the ISPs modem they give out

ill just buya third party one, hook it up to the network and change over shit i think

[solid hinge]

What would you guys think of tbe firestorm features implemented into regular bf

So healing your self is injecting with a syringe instead

[sly vault]

nah

[solid hinge]

And call ins like v1 rocket or sturmtiger is used with a flare

[hazy wasp]

not the healing anyway

I wish the Map and compas were treated similarly though

in game BF map sucks atm

[sly vault]

the core game is good it just needs some tweaks

[hazy wasp]

yup

[solid hinge]

Got the new knife can’t wait for it not to kill anyone

[hazy wasp]

😛

[sly vault]

dice: new secondary or chauchat? nah, here's a K N I F E

[hazy wasp]

Oh im only gettign half my internet speed atmf or some reason

[sly vault]

just a joke btw but seriously some dumb knife for tow... come on

[solid hinge]

the knife beats next weeks reward

[haughty pawn]

is the plane sound bug fixed yet ?

[solid hinge]

nope

[haughty pawn]

i'm not gonna play again til it'^s fixed,makes my ears bleed

[hazy wasp]

next patch sadly for the plane sound

its deafening at times

[haughty pawn]

next patch is ?

2 weeks ?

[hazy wasp]

yep

it doesn't happen all the time btw

but yeah its really annoying

https://i.redd.it/73jeoypdvo131.png

ugh

[solid hinge]

something that important not fixed fast is a problem

[somber elm]

hey anyone wanna play bf4*

[rose pilot]

Which path for the boys? https://i.imgur.com/ooKUQqq.png

[hazy wasp]

I assume biolt cycle is a help

[solid hinge]

Left side

Probably LLLR

[rose pilot]

[solid hinge]

Apcr is bugged atm and does no damage to tanks

On the other hand, it seems to destroy any fortification it hits

Like.. anything

[icy sluice]

APCR can destroy a fucking building in like 3 shots

But it won't damage vehicles at all

[solid hinge]

Wouldn’t be bugged if they tested it before release

[warm atlas]

I managed to disable a turret with the APCR rounds. But no hit marker or anything of that sort ever popped.

[fathom pebble]

@solid hinge I have done the impossible

I managed to destory a plane with a piat

[solid hinge]

[prime pine]

It does damagw vehicles it seems but it doesnt look like we get the registering hit

We actually may

Not

[random rock]

I hate to tell you joker but I've done that twice

(during the time it was needed for tow)

[hazy wasp]

the ZK is hilariously like an AR

[real sun]

anyone up to play som bf3

[hazy wasp]

oof victory by 8 tickets

[real sun]

fuck me

battlelog

long time no use

[graceful prairie]

does boys apcr kill infantry still or does it do no damage there either?

[hazy wasp]

vapours them

lol people lying prone with LMGs

at least use an MMG lads

[graceful prairie]

wanna see my how my kd got boosted after playing mmg only

[sly vault]

what's you guys longest headshot in bfv?

[graceful prairie]

https://imgur.com/a/L1ERBxp

Longest Headshot 338.00

[hazy wasp]

300 and something i think

[sly vault]

prone meta

172 m for me

[graceful prairie]

thats decent. idk how i got mine

do mmg headshots count?

prolly spraying someone down over 330 m xD

[sly vault]

all headshots count

[graceful prairie]

ok then probably mmg

i want to make a guide on how to not camp with mmg and topscore every game by just playing mmg properly

those corner campers with mmg annoy me

[solid hinge]

It breaks components but I don't think it damages tanks

[hazy wasp]

what is with corner hiding today

just people lying in corners constantly lol

more thna usual

[icy sluice]

For the first time, I did one of the longer melee animations on a woman... So... that kind of means more people camp as men than as women soldiers...

[solid hinge]

Lmaao

Just had two bugs in one

Couldnt see anything when i spanwed in a plane

Then when i cradhed i was stuck on the death screen

[sly vault]

why is mercury out of the rotation?