#battlefield-legacy-titles
1 messages · Page 1302 of 1
i think BFV BR is going to be a pretty fresh take on it all
Although I do enjoy PUBG as a whole.
with the engine, destructible environment, vehicles, gunplay
Yea, done the BF way
those assigments are giving me a headache
just finished the last tiger
yeah PUBG had great concepts, great gameplay but just a little rough around the edges
something feels off about apex
So I'm looking real forward to Firestorm
haven't tried apex
i think its the super long ttk compared to other brs
The long ttk is arena like
like the ttk in apex is ridiculusly long and makes some weapons utterly useless
yeah i'm hoping they keep firestorm true to BFV
i know there's armor
but hopefully that doesn't create silly ttk
i hope firestorm has a shorter ttk than other br games
What turns me off from Apex is the abilities
from the trailer firestorm looks super fast paced
hopefully it stays that way for the most part
armor just gives a little buff
and is rare
Mm
armor making it 1 more shot to kill depending or rarity
that wouldn't be so bad
I'm looking forward to the heli in firestorm. Haven't seen a proper heli since Hardline
In BF that is
wdym
its not going to be a proper heli
not a proper heli
looks like it can fit 6 ppl lmao
like not usable
It's more of a gyrocopter
i mean it's not going to be like a viper or anything
its purely a mode of transport
its a wunderwaffe
yeah
@pearl siren in the trailer you can see it can fit 4 people, including the pilot
that will be cool
yeah it fit 4 people
so im sure thats the max, since its the size of a squad in game
and players can shoot from it
pilot, 2 on one side, 1 on the other
yep
yeah makes sense it would fit a whole squad
i think u can go 2/2 on each side
but it has an advantage and disadvantage
I meant like the physics and stuff, not really how it looks. Cause the physics with aircraft in bf3 and bf4 are hella different
no
so they might add it to mp
oh
i think that most vehicles are dependent on the players in terms of damage output, except for tanks
and then the pilot in the front

also, the good thing about the heli is it has its disadvantages and advantages
just doesn't look like the helicopter has any of it's own weapons
imagine roadkilling ppl with the heli
i'm sure it's a sitting duck in the air
Pure joy
ex bf4 pro heli pilots are going to be monsters
for its advantages, its probably that it can fly and escape bulets
why is the plane icon a windmill fan

the disadvantages
land on a squad
its like
obviously you can easily get shot down
Loud
like the peopl on the side can get killed easily
i wonder if they would ever consider putting planes in firestorm
probably wouldn't work
map wouldnt be big enough
big enough?
yeah it wouldnt work b the restricting zone
10 x hamada
@proper tapir im sure they thought of that, so they added a heli instead
yeah
haha
wtf dice
.
just fly away to win
don't ask such questions
cause its not like fire goes 1000 feet into the air
Let's just not focus on that. It's a game after all 
i wonder if vehicles are dependent on fuel or anything
or questions like "how did we get trapped in a firestorm in the first place?"
ok nice joke but ok
i did hear the vehicles will have fuel?
couldnt you just hide in a lake
yes
kind of time limit
it got leaked
Yeah it was part of the data mine
it's not a terrible idea, limits time in vehicles
yeah would never fly in main game
Haha
would be obnoxious as hell
Yeah it would
Unlimited Fuel is a true blessing
heres the leaked firestorm tutorial
i'm okay with the ammo limits
but fuel...
that's like making you have to feed your player
gameplay
the in vehicle repair limits are kind of neat too
yeah i like what's there
with ammo and repairs
and fuel is probably a necessary add for firestorm
because if u in a tank u can just get out and blowtorch
haha
And grenade spam just mutes the game volume to simulate shellshock and deafness
hopefully we get some 1941 barbarossa news in coming weeks
i wonder how to tanks in the special vault locations are going to play out, because couldn't you just drop in at the beginning of the game and open the vault? unless you have to wait a certain amount of time before opening, or something rather
Drumfire = Instant loss
for chapter 4

That's probably the skill and risk/reward of the game
i'd assume you have to "secure" an objective to open the vault
Yeah
i like how bf5 has a free battle pass
thats so out of character for ea
although i think ea is redeeming themselves
Well they aint got no other options
fixing bf2, having all this free content for bf5
apex legends
EXCEPT
Fifa is gonna go down the drain as soon as lootboxes become illegal in premium games
no we need dances
we need dances and emotes
it's a double-edged sword - i liked the guaranteed content but it's true the different DLCs start having player number issues
if we have an emote
ToW is Battle Pass
Fifa should sell player dances as goal celebrations

lets have a sieg heil emote for german team'
i want to floss over a dead brit
i wish they'd go to a true game as a service model
it would be worse than tbag
Orange Justice over an eliminated camper
i'd pay an annual subscription for "battlefield"
and they keep on adding content/updating all the titles
keep BF 1 going
keep BFV going
have a modern setting too
guys the funniest thing happened yesterday
so listen
yesterday on the narvik map, day 2 of operations
i spawned on a beacon
then i saw a enemy brit tbagging my squadmate who died right before i spawned
then i ran up
i sprayed him with a sten
then i tbagged him
hahhahahha
Dip dip potato chip
imagine hw pissed he felt
u should have smacked him with the club
I got tbagged on Rotterdam for missing my shots with my thompson at range
Woo hoo
I guess smgs arent meant for sniping
i tbagged an lmg prone camper hiding in a barn on panzerstorm after i killed him
ok u know what i think chills actually uploaded a good video
If they made it like ipad fifa they can justify lootboxes as a fremium
At least EA has more than one franchise to generate money from

updates/content for all theaters of war
But lootboxes make such a huge amount of their bottomline
i don't like how BF1 is essentially done
they are very vulnerable to regulation
Yeah
no annual subscriptions pls
The premium system was kinda crap, if they made all maps free, the service pays for itself
no subscription pls. BF aint an mmo
i would pay an annual subscription if it meant all the battlefield titles stayed alive and kept getting updated with content
As if
To play Firestorm i need to buy full game or origin access?Or Firestorm gonna be allowed for free?
You gotta pay cause its an extra game mode
At one point of the life cycle the games will be pretty much dead
they always move on
pff
i don't think it needs to be that way
That's how games be
Why isnt battlefield premium just free
i look at some of the f2p games out there that have been online for multiple years and they just keep updating, adding content, refining
looks at OSRS guess there are some exceptions
@stoic breach not good...((
Yeah
they're f2p, they have no incentive to make sequels
We'll see what happens with Firestorm
every BF we start from scratch and have to wait to fix it for 6 month
Hopefully theres some free weekend shit
yeah
thats on dice for not releasing a polished game and people for buying it when they know it's gonna be a buggy mess at launch
i would love a service where we have battlefield WW1, WW2, modern, etc. and they just keep adding and improving
this bf isnt even as broken as bf4 was at this time
BFV is one of the most stable release of a BF game lol
i just think they could keep building off existing titles
vaults over a knee high mound of dirt 7 times in a row before being killed by an assault from 300 metres away
Good times
some kinda annual battlefield subscription that gets you access to every battlefield game that they're continually updating?
instead of waiting for another modern title they could take BF4 and just update, add to it
Pressing space on fjell going uphill was pain
At least the updates are coming in biweekly and not biyearly
if they made it so you got stuck on something instead of not moving they should actually trip you character
that wouldn't let them upgrade their fancy graphix though
Lol
and move you over it when you fall
Graphics
the other games are updating their graphics
In my battlefield
War thunder upgrades its graphics
turns settings to lowest for the most advantages
In Siege why dont they just add tripping over objects when you roam
imagine not playing every single game on lowest setting
Realistic tactical fps
@strong parrot roblox time
Key to success in a bf game: * b l u e g r a p h i c s *
they cant ban me if i dont stream 
war thunder is also a big piece of poopy
ehhhhh
it's pretty impressive
have to give it to the russian devs, they're obsessed
I know someone who's spent 3k on tanks in it
yeah you can literally ammo rack a tiger 2 with a russian 7.62 by shooting through its turret 
That lag
Discord dead
Pow is starting a chant
no you cant bmac
Discord api dead for a sec there
the days of selling a $60 disc are over
all i'm saying
and games are getting bigger
demand more content
a true service would solve that
points at bf2
tiger 2 porsche can get one shot by t34-85 through turret though
@pearl siren https://gfycat.com/celebratedflippantdutchshepherddog so what happened here my guy?
the mantlet on tiger 2 porsche is super weak copmared to the rest
yeah so a true live service for BF would open up content/upgrades to the different battlefields
he magically shot with his broken barrel? :^)
All I want is for dice to make offline conquest a thing in battlefront 2
i want BF1 to keep growing
So even when the servers die
i want BFV to keep growing
I can still play
I'd like them to fix the bugs that have been in the game since launch
i don't want to start from scratch on a new modern warfare game, but give me what we had in BF4 plus a ton more content
battlefront 2 isnt even close to dead
I guess that's a bit much to ask though
i found a game last week in 10 seconds
If it wasn't a star wars game it'd have a way lower playerbase
imagine this
BF:BC3 or BF3 remastered is all I need in my life
I hate it
@amber notch you stop that
golmud railway remastered
Jesus golmud
We fixed the loot drops > breaks them
that's what a live service would do
it would just keep updating/adding content to each era of warfare
My favourite part about Panzerstorm is that it's Golmud with no fucking helicopter admins
Just gimme op metro in bfv pls
It’s called fjell
NO
Yes
fjell, the spawn camping simulator 
Honestly
they need to add dunkirk
or idk if that would work as its asymmetrical
not clicking
I miss Rush in Op Metro though 
with the entire enemy team at one spot on devastation
just want a true live service for battlefield, across all battlefields
u know what i dont miss
Not using 1200rpm
WW1, WW2, Cold War, Bad Company, Modern
What is wrong with you
5 supports in a hallway deployed on ammo boxes spamming grenades
1200rpm the only way
Gas grenades
Hard to control, has the best hipfire for any mmg
I use 1200rpm MG42 as a shotgun
When you can drop someone in .2 of a second
A good chant for your team to push: Push like our ancestors did
after i learned how to prevent the gun from recoiling so hard
why does the fastest mmg have the best hipfire
Ask dice
i had deployed a bipod
Because its a shotgun
The darn machine gun
only if i could have the 1200 rpm and extended ammo belt
Mp40 hipfire vs mg42 hipfire
because fuck
No.
That would be unbelievably broken.
Cant wait for the pacific theatre of MG42s hiding in bushes
give it 1000 bullets
50 shots. More than enough to kill anything that moves
^
Halo 4 saw
And that’s overkill
it was gonna have a 1800 rpm
give me a handheld spitfire VA
the mg45
The LMG with no recoil
Glad you understood that reference
Handheld 50cal
I got you lol
Machine gun
50 cal m1911
I feel like if they add the Welrod it's gonna be Liberator 2
This is the greatest handgun ever made
we need a mg42 that shoots 50 cals at 1200 rpm with extended ammo
silenced recon when

Honestly they’d never make the Welrod a single class only. They’d probably make it Medal of Honor: Pacific style
Like it might be a high damage, but slow fire rate
tfw no combat role exclusive weapons and they're just an archaic system that didn't get removed in time
Silenced blapblapblap
Dual wield welrod 
7.62 liberator
I was looking at the old archetype stuff and they had way way cooler shit
Bro
Only useful combat role I find are the scout ones. Shoot to spot, or Spawn on any beacon
Is she wrong though
Tank buster role had no primary weapon, it was just launchers and secondaries
Time for a new missus
Honestly
@versed notch the problem with that is you only use pathfinder to spawn on someone else's beacon and then you immediately swap back to sniper
The old archetypes seeemed to be innovative
True
You may as well just make spawning on other people's beacons a default recon thing and remove pathfinder
Judt DICE over extended itself
The support mg one is good
But I can deal without the advantages the sniper has
And then after the Whole cosmetic debacle
Archetypes arent even hard to make shit for
Suppressing an enemy makes them 3D spotted in the map
On*
You could bundle all the combat roles together atm and no one would care
Yeah
Yeah
So just run an mg42 and constantly shoot
Because combat roles provide no benefit
They provide that extra cC
If they gave an actual advantage you would get balance issues
The only class with two that are actually worth picking between is support
One would be better than the other etc
The class roles were meant to be for specific situations but that went down the drain
@amber notch that's why they're supposed to balance them
The specializations imo are better
not give two to each class and make one of them worthless
Or Perks if you wanna call them that
Specialisations got cannibalised into class roles
Like suppression points and shit
They haven’t fixed the fact that the fg42 can just obliterate the enemy team without any worries if you combo it with the recoil bug
I wasnt even aware of any recoil bug
I-it's a bug?
Man the FG42 is just that good
Lol
DICE can’t catch a break
It’s kinda solid
I thought you guys were just really good at aiming
Is that a negative recoil thing

Has reported it 5 times
Wait

wait
finally they'll fear my ultra accurate bolt actions

I was wondering why my 1200 rpm mg42 had no recoil
No
Huh
Lol
@solid hinge no
Then wth was that
The mg42 can’t really do it well
ill make them taste fear
No bounce st all
Laser
my fear, when I run into them for 2 seconds and bayonet cancels
I like to think I'm good with Iron sight ross
Basically all fullauto weapons have an animation when firing right
👽
You can abuse that
Pow
That was just you reclining in your gamer chair
implying they fix bugs
So do we hope that firestorm actually works or nah
the force abilities in bf2 still don't work consistently a year after launch
But I mean how does that bug even happen?

BF2 doesnt work as a Battlefront game in general
Thinking I’m going to say it
I've played it once and its not that great
Good meme
It really isn't

3 guns per class
Assault and Support are the same since theres no ammo
75,344/104,000xp for ToW lv39 and i completed the whole week 😭
Vehicles are bought with points and not spawned from the map
BFV has 5 guns
Players cant interact with vehicles
5 guns is more than 3
Everything else is bad
And @maiden lantern I’m level 36. Just grind out Grand apps
LOL
Ops
What are the 5 guns?
F2000 in ww2 when
Fg, ZH,
Well yes
There's actually no synergy between infantry and vehicles in Battlefront 2
Fish2000
AEK-971 in BFV when
Honestly
An94 in BFF when
One of the vehicles in bf2 has bugged reticle and aims a solid inch to the side of where it's actually aiming
I don't think they've fixed that in montha
When they add the king tiger don’t complain to me
That is odd
I warned you
Gimme my M16A3 in BFV 😩
Thats the StG1-5
many many bug
Well let’s hope they add it
And no cosmetics
StG1-5 has no Hrecoil basically
StG1-5 doesnt capture the raw emotion the M16A3 evokes
It does capture easy frags
That was the issue in the alpha

Even with a controller, point the stick slightly down and negate the spray
Imagine making a star wars game with the most rabid whale fandom who will mortgage their house to afford stormtrooper skins and releasing like 4 skins since launch
Stg would just smack at all ranges
then again bfv isn't doing much better
20,000 credits for a skin
STG44 in beta lol
And yet no Gunther as a stormtrooper
O ye
Alpha version of the stg was beyond broken
E z f r a g s

Well glad they cleared that up
You either play as Gunter or shit 
When you could literally hold left click down and not have to compensate for recoil
Yeah
I think that’s a little broken
bring back tank machine guns
Ah yes
Bring back landship
M1919A4 pls
What a great squad tank
Gimme the browning right now
Tanks are a little bit on the flimsy side
No need to adjust the frontal armour damage numbers for the piat or anything
Because they suck
Jeez
They die so quickly, you swap to the mmg and hit them 6 times and they don’t die
I wish DICE would nerf the frag grenade rifle again
Beta was 4 shots dead
Damn
No
Thats nasty
There is a bug for that atm, it’s inconsistent
I wouldnt notice any bug if I just die instantly to it
Honestly
Im gonna go on twitter
Ahh yes, the place where everyone can voice their opinions

I just watched the Blackout reveal trailer,i know it came out like 5 months ago but i didnt see it.
It so bad
My eyes
R bleeding
@sonic rampart I wish
hi!
Hello
oh thx
pc
new to the game ;/
idk if itll work but im sure thats how for pc
i'll check it out
gl and hf
tyty
ye it should be C
What


Randomly disconnected from ea servers 

@sonic rampart good

Which semi is the best btw I never tried them 
1-5 semi auto
I'd agree, 1-5 is OP. I always lose that fight myself.
It’s because it has high dps and low optimal range

Plus isn’t shit like the ag
And has a lot of ammo
4 shot semi auto rifle at any range vs a semi that 5 shots, has more ammo, is more accurate and is just better
4 shot?
AG
Oh
Idk its so nice to use, just headshot people 
Its kind of sad tbh
Must be bad
5 shot at 500 metres maybd
Why are you fighting at 500meters
because that's the distance it 5 shots at
Dammit
The AG?
Did you buy cosmetics? 
No
They all look horrible
The ones that look somewhat decent are the ones you earn, the mastery outfits look amazing, the elite skins that are coming look good asf
The Tides Of War outfits look good as well
I meant for guns lmao
Skins for guns.
Yeah I’m good
blued/night owl 
Yeah nah
Gold > everything else
Meh the gold is kind of ugly tho
Gold is hot
^^
If I could have a gold plane ooof
bf1 had pimp mobile a7v
If I could have a golden bayonet
i dont see why not
Even tho I have never used one lol
pimp mobile tanks anyone?
zeroing and bayonets are both a waste
buys cosmetics

Would never be able to spend CC on anything else anyway
The only reason you should spend CC on anything in the current state of the game is talents for weapons and vehicles
Cosmetics aren’t worth it atm
Those upgrades are cheap anyway
Until they add leaf camos, tank body cosmetics it’s not worth
I feel like the cosmetics were a bit overpriced lmao
Hopefully youll get cc when you win a round of firestorm 
ictory royale
@sonic rampart well yeah
I have yet to see any cosmetics worth anything outside of the outfits you unlock after maxing a class
So I caught another cheater today
and I'm so sick and tired dealing with this fucking shit
The game has been out for months
and EA/DiCe is doing fuck all to deal with the problem
Whatever system they have in place to stop cheaters - it's obviously not working
and I just about had it .
I have never played a BF game that has had this many cheaters in it.
Here is proof
That the dude is blatantly hacking
No cheaters on console 
!report
Technically...
BS. On console people use modded controllers. That stuff has existed for a long time. Plus people can code no-recoil to mice as well.
:information_source: Contacting Battlefield Support
If you need to contact the Battlefield Support team for questions you might have, crashing in game and or server issues head over to
https://help.ea.com/en/battlefield/battlefield-v/
Contacting EA Support
If you need to contact EA support about account issues, billing issues etc head over to
https://help.ea.com/en/
If you need help in this Discord server you can send a Direct Message to our @strange osprey bot!
Lol
Please.
Report it there
The report button does fuck all.
Fine. I'll report it there too.
I fuck all
The point is - they are cheats out for the game
Theya re being used widely
and whatever system is in place isn't stopping it
@amber notch If It's console it's different
I’m not disagreeing not agreeing that dice isn’t doing anything to hackers etc.
But publicly naming hackers is something we don’t want on this server
Uhgm
Like, I'm not disclosing any personal information about the user
All I am giving is the persons Origin account name
What's his address? jk
Like I understand your position if I was doxxing him
We still don't allow it here
But this is his screen name that is he willingly using in public servers.
It's not like I took some information about him that is secret and that I'm leaking that info.
Alright.
... supposed....?
Yes
... supposed hackers?
Everyone is innocent till proven guilty
Yes
Even if you have proof, until they are banned they are innocent till proven guilty
I have over 300 hours logged in BF V
I have played FPS since the early 90's
We get that
I know what an aimbot looks like
Same
and claiming that these people are innoscent is insulting my intelligence
Then you should understand our stance in this situation if you have been playing games since the 90s
Am I right
But rules and regulations are rules and regulations
Seeming as you are involving yourself with the community
Look at the video I posted and you will clearly see he is blatantly using an aimbot.
It is up to the DICE anti cheat team to decide what happens, who is innocent and who is guilty
I am under the impression that you people don't want others to acknowledge that this game has a blatant cheating problem
But whatever. It's your server. You do what you want.
We are just a community driven discord, not something huge that really do anything for the game
I “acknowledge” there is a hacking problem, but we have guidelines that are placed in this server for us the community moderators to follow
We don’t want people being publicly named or shamed here.
I understand it. I just don't appreciate when I'm showing you an apple and you're telling me it isn't an apple.
Hello
Hola
Now, you use the tools I have given you to report it to EA themselves and possibly have them look into it
End of discussion
So close to getting the TOW challenge done
Okay, we can hold back on the words
Dabmin how do you report hackers to EA
no point
!support
:information_source: Contacting Battlefield Support
If you need to contact the Battlefield Support team for questions you might have, crashing in game and or server issues head over to
https://help.ea.com/en/battlefield/battlefield-v/
Contacting EA Support
If you need to contact EA support about account issues, billing issues etc head over to
https://help.ea.com/en/
If you need help in this Discord server you can send a Direct Message to our @strange osprey bot!
just invest your time elsewhere
Just in future, don’t publicly shame them here.
You can report hackers to EA by writing their name on a piece of paper and tossing it out the window. I hear their team is vigilant about chasing these.
lol
Remember, this is not an EA or DICE server, it's all community based
i think i'm opening a subreddit where people can officially and publicly shame all the cheaters at any given time
to bring shame upon their families
Ain't that against some of Reddit's rules?
afaik you're not allowed to start a witch hunt with their real info and whatnot
If it gets him banned from reddit it’s not our problem
but ingame handle?
Am I allowed to post videos of cheaters if I remove their names here?
Genuine question
Eh, I can guarantee that kind of subreddit would become a cesspool of people also just reporting good players based on KDR, netcode or good ol' reflexes and not knowing how to properly spot a hacker.
@silk sky The video I posted isn't one of them.
The dude is blatantly and obviously hacking
He's using an aimbot that snaps and auto locks on people
He has a shitty K/D ratio too
Oh I know. Didn't see it but I've come across far too many hackers and don't play much as a result.
Pow is taking his gloves off
Finally
yes
Why is everything popping off when I clock out of work? 
Pirate
Can Dice delete bad stuff from bfv and just convert bf1 to ww2 presets?
It would make best game ever
what
Hey, anyone know if private serv will be add soon?
Sure thing. Let's all pretend BFV is all clean and fair. 🤓
@west tundra Unknown.

sad :/
@west tundra they are looking into the possibility of adding hardcore mode as community created servers
Was said on Twitter by a person at EA
So about cosmetics... what's your favorite?
But until it’s from one of the community managers or from the twitter page take it with salt
Pit Crew and Valkyrie are good looking
i see
Community created servers, aka don't kill the admin or ban
Kill admin get banned
Sounds like a completely non toxic environment
Use a PIAT, BAN
Mashinima, clan wars, mix map........
I don't remember being kick on bf4 when even when i raped everyone with my team?
Bf3 was a nightmare
Admin was probably on your team
no ahah
BF4 Camper nightmare
BF3 AirCamper nightmare
I have a clip where i killed the enemy admin who was maining the jet and i got banned
BF1 and BFV are Cornercamper Nightmares
Laughs in little bird
Evil
that is evil XD
bf2bc2 Objective nightmare
Not using the superhornet
ohgawd yes XD
Big brain
bf2bc2 
Laughs in Model 10-A Corner camping
Are there any community managers who can help with problems in old games? more precisely bc1
Laughs with stinger
https://youtu.be/Em9kj4nOOYo
This is the most insane thing that happened to me in my whole life.
I was shooting a helicopter but i hit a plane.
AA12 frag rounds
Take your shitty R6 jokes out of here
Thats from r6s?
Yes
😩
playing bf1 gives me da chills
i remember staying up late at holidays and buying premium
you may disagree, but there's something in it that feels better than bf4 and bf3

i know, i killed people with the spotting scope in bf4, no kidding
bf5 lol missclick
lmao i joined a game, alt tabbed and forgot
come back and my a-team tow challenge is at 50%
how do u kill someone with the spotting scope?
lmao gasmask kill
Just get close and personal with the enemy
dice pls
God trying to resupply squadmates 25 times suck
Should be okay with a full squad
Gotta say CA is such an easy way to do those challenges
lmfao
did you see that comment to the firestorm trailer
to all the campers that hide within houses... your reckoning has come.
oh shit
blockade runner headgear looks dope
i hope my rng is good so it decides to give it to me
@honest coral lol
@pearl siren you need to prone behind an a enemey or anywhere actually near them and click on the fire button while holding the spotting scope and looking at them
but how many flares will be on the map to call in such a mortar storm 
implying there's any campers in houses when everyone is running piat
"headbutts"
imagine if the add a bazooka or a panzershrek
what role would it have?
in later updates
idk
the panzerfaust might get 3 shits
they would only have 2 or 1
panzerfaust is less powerful??
shots not shits lmao
i think its less powerful than a panzershrek?
lemme google
Raketenpanzerbüchse 54
88mm
man-portable recoilless anti-tank rocket launcher weapon
oh shit the american at launchers werent standard at all
there is a same classification for a shit ton of launchers
hardcore









