Cyberpunk 2077

[alpine spruce]

sdr looks fairly raised there

[tame canopy]

can you take screenshot of SDR with graph and HDR with graph?

[alpine spruce]

sdr in hdr you mean ?

[tame canopy]

yeah, that's fine, the graph is what matters

[alpine spruce]

sure with gamma correction off

right

[tame canopy]

i think?

you might have to put game nits to 100

[alpine spruce]

i have my own way to do that

use mpv to force sdr in hdr container

[tame canopy]

i mean or else the graph won't align

[alpine spruce]

no need to use mod

[tame canopy]

i need to see the sdr graph and the hdr graph

[alpine spruce]

right wait a sec

[tame canopy]

for example #1434377434022809610 message

that's with tonemapper none

so i get an idea of how off from SDR hdr is

[alpine spruce]

you mean sdr analysis graph ?

[tame canopy]

this graph

[alpine spruce]

ok

[tame canopy]

vanilla sdr with 100 nits slider and with lut scaling 0, vs vanilla hdr none and lut scaling 95. (both gamma correction off)

that's how i did the comparisons

essentally both in srgb

the HDR luts are just the SDR luts "transformed" for HDR, whatever the hell that is. it still has baked ACES.

i have no idea what they did to transform the SDR luts but i would love to be able to undo it

[alpine spruce]

do i need game brightness 100nits for hdr

[tame canopy]

yeah? i think

or else the mid gray doesn't align iirc

[alpine spruce]

do i need to turn off dlss ui ?

[tame canopy]

oof, yeah, that SDR lut is crazy raised. though to be fair, i think they're the same in terms of what you're seeing. just a flat raised color vs just black

[alpine spruce]

with sliders shown

[alpine spruce]

ya neither look good

[tame canopy]

it's not technically that much "darker", just replacing "i can't see anything but dark yellow" with "i can't see anything but black"

maybe a hair darker in this region

[alpine spruce]

this is hdr none with lut scaling 0

[tame canopy]

when everything is the same, then it's just a blob of one color, no detail in this area is SDR

so that's an SDR lut for sure in HDR

as in

no peaks

hard clip, pretty broken

it's an SDR lut in HDR and you have no peak nits, so they didn't scale that SDR lut at all for HDR

(HDR and SDR share the same SDR-peak luts)

[alpine spruce]

325nits ?

[tame canopy]

so the match i use for scaling that situation should be different

move the peak nits slider and you'll see where it happens

you have at 4000 and when blue hits the line that'll be what it's graded to

looks like a well built SDR lut, so probably 100, my guess

might be under 100, meaning in SDR it wouldn't even hit peak sdr 100%

could be like 90 nits

[alpine spruce]

sdr with peak set to 4000

by blue hit the line do you mean this ?

72 nits

[tame canopy]

if you drag down peak nits while in HDR does the blue area move?

[tame canopy]

yeah... so their SDR lut doesn't go to 100%

goes to 72%, oof

so the lut scaling for SDR-in-HDR LUTs needs work, 95 isn't right

and LUT Order is the same if you pick Before or After?

[alpine spruce]

nothing changes

[tame canopy]

try with RenoDRT tonemapper, or Vanilla tonemapper when in HDR

at least to get a sense if it's done before/after (which of the two matches the "Vanilla" option)

[alpine spruce]

lut scaling at 95 ?

[tame canopy]

when you have a tonemapper enabled (Vanilla/ACES/RenoDRT), i just want to know which option matches LUT order Vanilla. when you have it as None, all 3 are the same (Before/Vanilla/After)

it's just to get a sense of what's broken, so far it's SDR-in-HDR lut but luts can run before or after HDR tonemapper in some game areas

[alpine spruce]

before

[tame canopy]

🙏 so this isn't the same as the Map luminance issue because that has lut order After

so LutOrder before with SDR-in-HDR lut with HDR ON needs better scaling

[alpine spruce]

the map is only correct with after ?

[tame canopy]

the map is After in vanilla, which i don't even understand in how that works in SDR, since i believe SDR only has one lut. in HDR they put an option to say tonemap to... something and then run lut after tonemap

it's likely nonsense, like their entire HDR path

[alpine spruce]

uh...maybe map was their last process to make ?

[tame canopy]

in most games now we just mod the SDR path because it's unusable nonsense in HDR

[alpine spruce]

so they just did some random things do make it look ok-ish

[tame canopy]

yeah, and trying to make sense out of random is super rough

lut order before, lut order after, sdr luts in srgb, sdr luts in arri c3, stretched sdr-to-hdr in arri c3

[alpine spruce]

is cyberpunk doable with sdr path

[alpine spruce]

this game took so much time to make, those were probably handled by completely different devs

[tame canopy]

i'd imagine the swapchain stuff would get really weird, but then again, it wouldn't be our first time. hell, i think UE SDR => RenoDX HDR is faster than native UE HDR

most of the time when I see the RenoDX / SDR / HDR-ini / RTX comparisons, RenoDX is faster than HDR-ini

[alpine spruce]

didnt know that ue hdr costs so much

[tame canopy]

in theory the less you mod, the better, faster. but that only works if the HDR implementation is just as fast as the SDR implementation. and Unreal may have really borked a lot of code/logic/workflows just to get HDR out

RenoDX HDR on cyberpunk SDR might be faster than native HDR

it shouldn't be but could be

[alpine spruce]

makes sense

[tame canopy]

but when you deal with this level of incompetence, big oof

[alpine spruce]

they did too many different things that made the workflow really complicated

[tame canopy]

i'd have to fix my dlssfix to support RTX raytracing because i think it crashes, but generally the fear was that i would break DLSSFG if i started messing with swapchain

[alpine spruce]

some games with rt just dont work with cbuffer

do you have any idea about that

[tame canopy]

UE does this assertion to make sure the name of the root signature entry matches the one they built. and when you're rebuilding a root signature to inject cbuffers in DX12, it recompiles without the names

basically UE does a feature support test by seeing if an entry they created appears in the root signature, only they check by string name

i had a super complicated process of cloning the root signature, so the game can keep the original, intact root signature. we slip in and out our root signature when we want to inject buffers, except not only do you have to clone the root signature once on creation (easy), you have to do the same thing they do the original root signature to your clone which is super, super tedious (push srvs, push other constants, track when root signatures are copied, etc etc)

we similarly clone textures in the same "do everything to clone that it did to the original" way, but going back to root signature cloning doesn't seem needed as long as we can just, per-game, not modify root signatures that we suspect can't be modified safely

[alpine spruce]

lut scaling 48 seems to be the best here based on the graph

[mint ridge]

So I'm still tweaking and trying to find a new fav but thanks to contrast slider working again it's way easier

[tame canopy]

48 is that's consistent with what people were saying before, about 50. with the issue being that SDR-in-HDR luts need a different scaling

[tame canopy]

60 contrast i think is vanilla hdr

[mint ridge]

As for the glitchy mess from earlier, it's caused by vanilla grain

Perceptual is all fine

Thanks CDPR

not

[tame canopy]

i tried to add back in vanilla grain in shader, might now be broken

like fixing their code

might be referencing garbage because something else changed in a patch

[alpine spruce]

ya open world maps definitely needs more

[mint ridge]

Yeah but with Dynamic Exposure there are some more extreme tweaks worth making imo

Dat dyn exp is powerful af

[tame canopy]

dynamic exposure means you didn't set tonemap midpoint to 1.0

it's probably at double exposure (2.0)

i left it a slider because i don't know if scenes will use a custom value

[mint ridge]

Yeah, was at 2.0, at 1.0 slider doesn't do anything

[tame canopy]

in theory it uses that Tonemapper Midpoint slider and then mixes it with scene grading because god knows what they were doing in HDR

[alpine spruce]

ya makes sense now, i kept saying lut scaling 95 looks crushed

[tame canopy]

more than 50, i assume? that would probably be the 95 for stretched HDR luts

[alpine spruce]

65

didnt check sdr though

65 is for blacks not being clipped

[tame canopy]

and lut scaling 0 is what? 1900 nits peak?

[alpine spruce]

let me check

[tame canopy]

because i know that sdr-stretched luts usually target 1900 nits

[alpine spruce]

2900

[tame canopy]

and i'm assuming 203?

[alpine spruce]

wait do i need to check with tonemap none ?

[tame canopy]

yeah

None at neutral settings

[alpine spruce]

1613 with 203

[tame canopy]

and with 100 game nits?

no other boosts (highlights?)

[alpine spruce]

1610

[alpine spruce]

just retested here, in hdr with lutscaling 0 brightness is also capped to 72nits

actually its 71nits in hdr for some reason

ive heard that the silverhand sections were made later so they probably just forgot about hdr there

even native hdr with midpoint 1.0 is only around 155nits here

[mint ridge]

It seems to be back with wip addon, even at 50

Though not as pronounced

[olive cloak]

you should pin this somewhere

[hardy atlas]

Opposite. Original was deep fried to hell

[mint ridge]

To each their own

Thankfully the contrast slider is now working and I can somewhat get that look I'm after

Can even push it to 70-80 and the parts lost in darks/blacks I can just use the flashlight or night vision mods to see so all in all, contrast was my most needed feat ❤️

[ashen ether]

Is there any in-game location or save file where I can test dynamic exposure?
It seems to be nulled by some mods, and I want to test if it can fix some weird exposure issues.

[vital junco]

@alpine spruce did you settle on 65 LUT scaling?

[alpine spruce]

it depends on the scene

but theres no perfect settings

mod needs more work

The whole silverhand section requires 48 to not crush blacks

[vital junco]

at least those only make up a tiny portion of the game, I guess

[tepid galleon]

and it is scary, haha. A very good example to shock people awake.

[novel hinge]

hi Renodx working with framegen on CP?

[tame canopy]

yes, it uses the original hdr path

[novel hinge]

means black level floor raised?

[tame canopy]

well, it fixes that

[novel hinge]

u have also SDR look?

[tame canopy]

there's a built floating around here that is sdr matched i htink. i just don't have it on the repo because it's not as deep fried as vanilla hdr by default

[novel hinge]

i prefer sdr color to hdr

[tame canopy]

yeah, check pins and use that build as well as the settings in the other pinned message. i haven't made the preset buttons in the mod itself yet

[novel hinge]

great thx

[alpine spruce]

just remember lut scaling is inconsistent

unless its fixed recently ?

[novel hinge]

overdarkening some scenes u mean?

[alpine spruce]

ya the game uses different types of luts

and one of them is sdr-in-hdr that shortfuse wasnt aware of

[tame canopy]

yeah lut sclaing is either 95 or 45, depending on the area

[alpine spruce]

this type of luts doesnt work well with the build

when lut scaling set to 95

you need the debug layer

to check

if that crushes blacks

[alpine spruce]

you want the left part of the graph looks like this

[novel hinge]

Renodx is def better than vanilla but still i prefer sdr colors if this mod is more in line with sdr for sure is better

[alpine spruce]

its not possible to 100% match

sdr uses per channel tonemapping

in hdr it results in broken highlights colors

but that build is neutral mostly

[novel hinge]

Okok

[tame canopy]

sdr is baked lut with ACES tonemapping. HDR is that baked SDR lut which they overstretch by a lot. then they apply ACES ontop of the that already overstretched ACES SDR lut, and then stretch that even more

the version on the repo/nexus mods is me fixing the hdr somewhat blind. the build here is me starting over with SDR as reference

[alpine spruce]

need a SDR path mod to fully reproduce the sdr look

i think

their hdr is bloated

with different kinds of nonsense

[tame canopy]

you can massage the sliders well enough to replicate SDR, but the inconsistent lut scaling is the current main issue

[novel hinge]

i kinda assumed that and now u confirmed

[novel hinge]

only game I play sdr cuz i hdr is pan fried

[tame canopy]

the issue is moreso that people are expecting a visual because deep fried hdr is what they expect, so i have to allow them to get deepfried without knee jerking "this looks worse than vanilla (hdr)"

[alpine spruce]

if this mod is being made now, sdr patch is probably the way to go

[tame canopy]

and vanilla hdr, in all their stretching and deepfrying still managed to have more raised black than vanilla sdr

[novel hinge]

some renodx have bottons like hdr look or sdr look

[alpine spruce]

also in vanilla

the silverhand sections

[novel hinge]

I think that good for everyone

[alpine spruce]

are all present with sdr-in-hdr luts

peak brightness doesnt even go above 200nits

im surprised that nobody talked about this

[tame canopy]

i think there are some pure SDR luts, like when you have your visor thing enabled (green visuals)

when you press Tab IIRC

[alpine spruce]

all missions that you play as silverhand are completely capped to sdr range basically

[novel hinge]

we are using now ptnextv3 with U+ and sdr colors works better imo

[alpine spruce]

ya

even pt20 looks better

restir gi was introduced to reduce noise before RR came out

but the quality is actually lower than pt20 with settings cranked up

[novel hinge]

try ptnextv3 with lighting fix

[alpine spruce]

i know that

im talking that even the pt20 looks better

with maxed settings

the current official method was implemented to solve the denoise issue

before RR

but RR came after

[novel hinge]

for now I have SHARC off

cuz is not consistent

[alpine spruce]

i think all silverhand sections have those non stretched sdr luts

which not only looks mega raised

but also caps the brightness under 200nits

insanely low dynamic range

[novel hinge]

gonna try now this pinned

[alpine spruce]

default settings with manually tweaked lut scaling scene by scene is the best rn

highlights 75 looks clipped

no need to simulate clipped sdr look

[novel hinge]

ya this looks better but not sure about bloom imo

[tame canopy]

bloom is almost always reduced in hdr contexts

because bloom is used to fake brightness in SDR and not needed as much in HDR

[novel hinge]

I think 50 is high

but looks better thx

[tame canopy]

50 is default/stock. i think i use 20/25

[novel hinge]

ya i like 40 better

lut scaling 50 looks good

problems in interiors?

[tame canopy]

what peak nits are you using?

[novel hinge]

1000

[tame canopy]

it's symmetrical, both black and white scaling

exteriors are probably almost always HDR LUTs, whereas interiors may be the sdr-in-hdr thing. there's a debug graph option to see what the slider is doing

[novel hinge]

ya maybe some interiors overdarkening but its fine

i like this one a lot

[worthy isle]

I noticed Blender 5.0 had an update to AgX HDR. Any thoughts on maybe bringing AgX into the renoDX mix? https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/pulls/142758

https://github.com/EaryChow/AgX_LUT_Gen/blob/main/AgXHLG.py

[tame canopy]

Looks like nonsense

https://github.com/EaryChow/AgX_LUT_Gen/blob/main/AgXHLG.py

Using HSV is horrible

You can ask chatgpt to rewrite as a reshade and it'll possibly be able to do it

[worthy isle]

Damn. For some reason, agx just has that look I love.

[tame canopy]

per channel contrast?

it's here https://github.com/EaryChow/AgX_LUT_Gen/blob/main/AgX.py

first pass copilot

[worthy isle]

Honestly I'm not too familiar with the shortcomings outside of the AgX's color issues.

^^ lol Is it really that easy now days?

I actually spent some time researching the GT-7 tonemapper yesterday after reading a recent presentation. Chatgpt did a pretty good job trying to create the tonemapper for resolve but keep having exposure and hue skews that were tough to fix. Honestly I had no idea what I was doing lol

[olive cloak]

honestly idk how much we'd get out of agx if it was in reno
agx has a pretty distinct look and I'd imagine it would look pretty odd if we tried to retrofit it into games compared to the tonemapping stuff we already have

[worthy isle]

That's perfectly fair. Time to get with the times 🙂

[olive cloak]

yeah
from what I've seen agx is better than aces but it's kinda like only a half step in the right direct imo

[tame canopy]

it's actually here https://github.com/EaryChow/Blender-AgX-Resolve/blob/main/Blender-AgX-Lib.h

doesn't make sense to do HSV from linear, but this is all just eyeballed stuff

it's per channel tonemapping using HSV in linear (which is built for SRGB) to hue correct

[olive cloak]

curious how it would look with dkl instead

[tame canopy]

//Based on Jed Smith Sigmoid
__DEVICE__ float tonescale(float in, float sp, float tp, float Pslope, float px, float py,float s0=1.0,float t0=0.0)
{
  //calculate Shoulder
  //float s0= 1.0;
  //float t0= 0.0;
  float ss =spowf(((spowf((Pslope*((s0-px)/(1-py))),sp)-1)*(spowf(Pslope*(s0-px),-sp))),-1/sp);
  float ms = Pslope*(in-px)/ss;
  float fs = ms/spowf(1+(spowf(ms,sp)),1/sp);

  //calculate Toe
  float ts =spowf(((spowf((Pslope*((px-t0)/(py))),tp)-1)*(spowf(Pslope*(px-t0),-tp))),-1/tp);
  float mr = (Pslope*(in-px))/-ts;
  float ft = mr/spowf(1+(spowf(mr,tp)),1/tp);

  in = in>=px? ss*fs+py:-ts*ft+py;

  return in;
}

it's just a normal filmic slope

[olive cloak]

oh lol

might as well use lottes at that point, no?

[tame canopy]

idk why you guys chase things like that

it's just an s curve

shoulder, linear, toe. and in per channel

// Apply luminance compensation
  if (use_compensate_low_side) {
     rgb = compensate_low_side(rgb, false, working_chromaticities);
  }
  else {
     rgb = maxf3(0.0f, rgb);
  }

  //apply inset matrix
  rgb = mult_f3_f33(rgb, insetmat);

  float3 pre_hsv = RGB_to_HSV(rgb);
  
  rgb = lin2log(rgb, tf, generic_log2_min, generic_log2_max);

  float3 log = rgb;

  if (logoutput == 1)
    rgb=agx;

  if (log2_maintain_contrast == 1 && working_log == generic_log2) {
    float base_exposure_range = 16.5f;
    slope = ((fabsf(generic_log2_min) + generic_log2_max) / base_exposure_range) * slope;
  }
  if (use_hdr) {
    float hdr_shoulder_power_multiplier = _powf(hdr_sdr_ratio, _log10f(hdr_shoulder_power));
    sp = sp * hdr_shoulder_power_multiplier;}
  rgb.x = tonescale(rgb.x, sp, tp, slope, lmg, mg,1,0);
  rgb.y = tonescale(rgb.y, sp, tp, slope, lmg, mg,1,0);
  rgb.z = tonescale(rgb.z, sp, tp, slope, lmg, mg,1,0);
  //rgb = clampf3(rgb,0,1);

  float3 img = rgb;

  img  = spowf3(img,2.4);

  // HDR darken middle grey
  if (use_hdr) {
    float3 pre_darken_hsv = RGB_to_HSV(img);
    img = lin2log(img, 14, -20.0, 2.47393118833);

    float hdr_mg_pre_darken = lin2log(make_float3(0.18), 14, -20.0, 2.47393118833).x;
    float hdr_mg_darkened =  lin2log(make_float3(0.18/hdr_sdr_ratio), 14, -20.0, 2.47393118833).x;
    // slope set to 1.000001 instead of 1.0 to prevent the curve from breaking when hdr_peak == sdr_peak
    img.x = tonescale(img.x, 1, 3, 1.000001, hdr_mg_pre_darken, hdr_mg_darkened,1,0);
    img.y = tonescale(img.y, 1, 3, 1.000001, hdr_mg_pre_darken, hdr_mg_darkened,1,0);
    img.z = tonescale(img.z, 1, 3, 1.000001, hdr_mg_pre_darken, hdr_mg_darkened,1,0);

    img = log2lin(img, 14, -20.0, 2.47393118833);

    float3 post_darken_hsv = RGB_to_HSV(img);
    post_darken_hsv.x = lerp_chromaticity_angle(pre_darken_hsv.x, post_darken_hsv.x, hdr_purity);
    post_darken_hsv.y = lerp(pre_darken_hsv.y, post_darken_hsv.y, hdr_purity);
    img = HSV_to_RGB(post_darken_hsv);
  }

  float3 post_hsv = RGB_to_HSV(img);
  post_hsv.x = lerp_chromaticity_angle(pre_hsv.x, post_hsv.x, angle_lerp);
  img = HSV_to_RGB(post_hsv);

  img = mult_f3_f33(img, outsetmat);
  img = mult_f3_f33(img, working_to_out);

  // Apply luminance compensation
  if (use_compensate_low_side) {
     img = compensate_low_side(img, true, out_chromaticities);
  }
  else {
     img = maxf3(0, img);
  }

  img = clampf3(img,0,1);

  // prepare image for HDR encodings with SDR peak nits normalization
  if (use_hdr == 1 && out_transfer == out_BT2100HLG_inverse_EOTF) {
    img *= (hdr_peak/100);
  }
  else if (use_hdr == 1 && out_transfer == out_BT2100PQ_inverse_EOTF) {
    img *= (hdr_peak/100);
  }
  else if (use_hdr == 1 && use_hdr_as_percent_for_sdr == 0) {
    img *= (hdr_peak/100);
  }

tonescale is what i said, just an s curve, and it's per channel

and wrongly uses HSV in linear for hue correction. if this were a game shader we'd be criticizing it

if hdr, stretch to peak, but also lower exposure beforehand if hdr

[tame canopy]

@olive cloak https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nigtzpdegt

reinhard with contrast 2.4, and black lift and some offset for shadows (didn't want to port shadows slider)

per channel

can probably lerp contrast over x, start at 2.2 , end at 2.75

[olive cloak]

reinhard filmic?

pretty cool

[ashen ether]

I completed this game using Preem LUT 3, it looks pretty good (if u don't care about color at all).
Preem LUT 3 Exposure 0.5 D65 LUT Scaling 100 / Vanilla D65 LUT Scaling 95

Some LUTs used in specific phases may look very different.

||Due to a bug in a certain mod, I unexpectedly entered this scene prematurely.||

[modern wigeon]

on an LG G5 it feels like blacks are being crushed a bit here. is this the TV or RenoDX?
from what i gather here decreasing "LUT scaling" (to?) is the way to go?
thanks

[alpine spruce]

renodx

this game has non-stretched sdr luts in hdr

which needs different scaling from hdr luts

so you have to constantly change the lut scaling to get a perfect image

until shortfuse updates the mod

[alpine spruce]

you want the left part of the debug layer looks like this (by adjusting the lut scaling slider)

[modern wigeon]

oh boy so it's down the rabbit hole again
thanks @alpine spruce for the write-up

[alpine spruce]

if you dont mind raised blacks you can just slap 48 on it

would look better than sdr in some cases and native hdr all the time but you will see raised blacks for sure

[modern wigeon]

will check that out, thanks
but will that change daylight scenes as well? bc the g5 is already so bright in those^^

[alpine spruce]

ya

their luts cap the peak

so lut scaling increase that limit

its capped to around 1600nits with lut scaling 0

in open world areas

just use that debug layer to check if you are dynamic range-limited by luts

like if blue on the right side hits the white

you are limited by the luts

or pink on the very left side is above the horizon

[formal orbit]

Are you in 165hz mode

[modern wigeon]

great thanks for the detailled explanation. will have to see that first hand to make sense of it all tonight 🙂

[alpine spruce]

right 165hz on g5 also needs some fixes

[modern wigeon]

nope, 120hz, works better with VRR flicker for me

[formal orbit]

Good

[modern wigeon]

yeah and all that too

[alpine spruce]

ya then just forget about it

120hz is the ultimate fix

lol

[modern wigeon]

i don't see a reason for 165hz on these type of games (at least w/o superhuman hardware that is)

[formal orbit]

Yep I ended up on 120hz too for best black levels

The workarounds with black lvl 52 n stuff at 165hz don’t work for me as well as just doing 120

[modern wigeon]

since my fps is nowhere near that anyway there really is no reason
what i will say about the G5 though is that VRR flicker is SO MUCH better than on the S95F
(just missing the color luminance of the qd-oled :()

[formal orbit]

Yeah even on 4090 I can’t maintain my 156fps VRR Cap on all games at 4k

[lavish sand]

Lowering hz helps with black lvls??

Oh g5

[formal orbit]

G5 has mad black crush on 165hz

While on 120hz it’s flawless

You need to like raise black levels on 165hz to not crush, but it’s not good imo because blacks get too raised then when you play something at 100-130fps because the lower you go the brighter it gets, it’s super scuffed

So I just settled on 120hz, it’s not that big of a difference anyway, it’s not like I’m going from 240 to 120

[grand pulsar]

do u know if this is a problem on any monitors or anything

[formal orbit]

the crushing i dont think so, but the black levels shifting on OLEDs in VRR depending on the FPS youre getting is, thats basically what the VRR flicker is afaik

[grand pulsar]

ahh interesting

i have VRR disabled, the only thing i have is ABL dimming but i dont think thats black level shifting

[formal orbit]

nah thats a diff issue

[whole zinc]

is there recommended in game HDR settings to apply for this renodx mod?

[grand pulsar]

pretty sure renodx overwrites most of them so no

[alpine spruce]

midpoint 1.0

[whole zinc]

for me all the HDR settings apart from peak brightness are still active

[grand pulsar]

what hdr settings can u even set ingame tho? theres only 1-2, and its reccomended to leave them default

its like midpoint and peak brightness, thats about it

and renodx's midpoint brightness overrides the ingame one afaik

[hardy atlas]

theres the cursed pq saturation slider

and ui brightness

peak has some effect, shortfuse said to keep it at the same setting as reno

[whole zinc]

its not overridden by renodx

[hardy atlas]

ya shortfuse says midpoint at 1

[whole zinc]

which is not the default (2)

also HDR10PQ or HDR10scRGB?

[hardy atlas]

pq and scrgb will look the same

[alpine spruce]

scrgb is not compatible with fg

[whole zinc]

Ok thanks

[whole zinc]

can i still run RenoDX with Midpoint at 2.0 or does that break what it's trying to achieve?

[grand pulsar]

Do whatever looks visually better to you. It’s all subjective really

Renodx tries to get to the most “accurate” or neutral picture but accuracy doesn’t always look better

If u want more contrast or saturation or it to be darker, etc, go nuts

[tame canopy]

Midpoint 2 = Exposure 2

[whole zinc]

huh.. I have this renodx mod running on 2 different pc's with vastly different results. on one machine, the Internal Sampler set to PQ makes the image vastly brighter, while on the other machine the difference between PQ and Vanilla is unnoticeable. This is making one PC running this mod look completely different to the other. I have no idea what's goings on or which one is correct.

[hardy atlas]

Is the color precision setting set to high on both?

Or whatever it’s called

[whole zinc]

Where is that setting? I'll check it tomorrow

[tame canopy]

One of the graphics settings in the game menus

[whole zinc]

yes thanks just found it and tested it. Precision colour on medium vs high. I assume High is where it should be. It's interesting that I quite like the vibe of what happens when set to medium, I know its wrong but theres like a warm glow to it.

[whole zinc]

yup this was the culprit thanks

[wintry bolt]

Does anyone use Nova City 2 + env tuner and have good settings for Reno?

[forest echo]

So I played hours of Cyberpunk using the latest WIP RenoDX build and while I had to get used to the more accurate less overcooked look, I think it's miles better than the old mod which is based on the crappy vanilla HDR implementation. Shadows details are MUCH better and a lot of too dark crushed places are fixed now. I prefer how the new mod takes the less flawed base SDR image and really adds all the beloved HDR ingredients like insane highlight details, nits and wide gamut colors onto it. I love it! 👌

Only things like the World Map doesn't seem to render correctly and is washed out. Haven't come across other problems fortunately.

Some screenies with the latest mod for your enjoyment:

This is with default settings. There's just literally one thing I used to make it better. I tested pretty much all relevant LUT's as well as Nova City 2 using LUT Switcher and I think all of them are baaaaddddd!!! All LUT's screw things up considerably, like I really don't understand their popularity at all!!

There's just ONE exception. When installing the LUT Switcher you get two LUT's: the Vanilla one and a Vanilla Dogtown version. The second one is basically the vanilla look, but without the dreadful green mid and low tone tint. That's it! So that's what I'm using in these screenies.

You can clearly see how the improved Vanilla Dogtown LUT actually well... improves the image...

Left image Vanilla , Right image Vanilla Dogtown LUT.

All images are rendered at their highest settings with Path Tracing on a RTX 5070 Ti that I grabbed a few weeks ago. 🙂

[alpine spruce]

its still based on vanilla hdr

(with baked ACES removed so its less contrasty by default)

[ashen ether]

Wdym? I thought that almost no one knew how to create HDR LUTs for cp77.
So almost all HDR LUTs have baked ACES (on Nexus)
Oh, I misread the line

[forest echo]

I see now that I missworded my interpretation. 😅 I understand that the mod still uses vanilla HDR as a base, because we still need to enable the in-game HDR. But from what I gathered, it's now trying to be closer to the more accurate characteristics of SDR. And removing baked ACES is one piece of that puzzle.

Is this a more correct interpretation? 🤔

Besides that, I like the new approach very much!! 🫡

[hardy atlas]

the sunkissed look is pretty essential to the game

i don't like any of the LUT mods

like the valentinos are obv based on la chicano gangs

needs to have that sunny vibe

or everything is off

[wary ember]

People just doesn’t like artistic vision. They want “realism” ✨

Which is respectable tbh

But imo yeah, all LUTs kill the vibe

[forest echo]

Okay I totally agree with you guys. I've played the game for a while now with the Vanilla Dogtown "Fixed" LUT, but even that one screws with some colors like less saturated reds and quite skewed blue's. So, now I know for sure... all LUT's are crap and indeed kill the vibe!

Still I wanted to get rid of the green tint to make the game seem more like I look directly into it and not through a greenish "filter" so to speak. So I downloaded the advanced version of ENV Tuner and quickly discovered that under the Color Grading tab, you'll find the right tools to get rid of this greenish tinge...

[mint ridge]

There's the Vanilla Plus no green tint LUT mod if you want tho, I've been using it for as long as I can remember, it's just fine

[forest echo]

I changed the Green "Gain" from the default 85 to 70 and changed the "Shadow Offset" from 0.00 to -0.01 to get rid of the slightly washed out look. Bring this down further and you'll instantly crush shadow details, it's THAT sensitive!

The results are really good and do exactly what I want. Give me a vanilla look without the greenish washed out tint...

Before | After

Before | After > Now it looks more like actual garbage 🤣

Before | After

[forest echo]

While it is cool that at least someone made a mod that purely gets rid of the green tint, I don't trust those mods. And they surely didn't use the HDR WIP RenoDX rendering I'm getting now, so I think it is best that you'll do it manually to get the best results. It's actually pretty easy!

I'm still fiddling with it a little bit, because at some places, the game deliberately has a greener graded look, which is totally fine. But I have to make a balance in how much green I'm subtracting from the image. A value of around 70 seems like a good balance, but maybe I'm leaning towards between 70 and 75 for a more neutral look. Anything above that is always too greenish.

[modern wigeon]

does anyone have another solution to defeat the black crush apart from lut scaling?
on a LG G5 the highlights are eye-searingly bright while i cannot make out things in darkness

[wary ember]

Bump shadows

54 or so should be good

[modern wigeon]

will try, gracias!

[formal orbit]

I feel you 😭

[formal orbit]

Why

I have a G5

I know what you mean

When something so bright is on the screen that you can’t see anything in shadowed areas

[modern wigeon]

hehe okay yea that's exactly it

[tame canopy]

Human eye can only perceive 4.7 log units (credit: Reinhard)

0.04 - 2000 nits is 4.7 log units

2000 / 10e4.7 = 0.0399

0.02 * 10e4.7 = 1002.37 if we're talking maximum

but that's at the same time of course

then there's adaptation time

[unkempt plume]

I have a PG32UCDM. I'm struggling to find the ideal settings for renodx. Is there a guide or just a screenshot somewhere of the current ideal settings?

[gleaming parrot]

Are you using 165hz mode on your G5? It’s inaccurate and has black crush. Switch back to 120hz if you are, 120hz is accurate. Its the same problem on my G4 with the 144hz mode.

Also try the WIP build pinned here, it looks much better and has an “sdr look” option which will match SDR’s contrast, you can bump it slightly more if you want a little more contrast than sdr but it should still look better than default 50.

[brisk zodiac]

Peak will be either 400 if using TB400 mode or 1000 if using 1000 peak

everything else is optional

if theres too much shadow crush on your end adjust lut scaling or raise Shadows in Reno menu to 55

default settings are already 'ideal', the rest is personal preferences

[modern wigeon]

I'm on 100/120hz
Ty kindly for the build will check it out

[floral bone]

A novice question: Can Preem Optics and the ENV Tuner be used together? Are there any other methods to accelerate the adaptation between light and dark areas and vignette removal？

[brisk zodiac]

ENV tuner allows you to disable eye adaptation and the vignette entirely

Or speed it up so it's instant or adjust to your taste

Reno also gives you controls

Since those two can do it, I think Preem optics is reduntant

[floral bone]

Will try, thanks!

[modern wigeon]

holy shit
Preem Optics = when you move the camera the screen doesn't take forever to adapt to changes in brightness of the rendered scene?
i need this now! thanks for sharing

[cobalt junco]

another one with a G5 here. You can as well increase the FTDA option to +3-5 and you will restore the crushed blacks.

The problem is not the 165hz mode itself, but 165hz mode + VRR/Gsync. Since the VRR range is increased, you will have more VRR flicker and the lower your framerate is, the black level will raise a lot. It seems that LG crushed blacks to prevent this from happening if you are gaming at lower framerates at 165hz with VRR enabled, which makes sense because most AAA games won't run at 4k 150+fps unless you have a 5090.

But increasing FTDA to +3-5 you restore detail on blacks without raising them too much at lower framerates. You should give it a try

[wary ember]

What on earth is FTDA

Also, 165hz is just bad in the G5. I wouldn’t use it even with adjustments. But it’s usable I guess if you really want those extra fps

[formal orbit]

Fine tune dark areas

[formal orbit]

thats what im saying

[wary ember]

Oh gotcha

[formal orbit]

yeah pretty much same shit as the black level thing soo..

same issues

120hz is the way

[floral bone]

I tried it out and found that the ENV Tuner addresses the issue of eye adaptation by adjusting the exposure settings. If you choose the default exposure configuration for the ENV Tuner and also use the default configuration for the Reno, there will be an overexposure issue. How should the default exposure configuration of the ENV Tuner be adjusted so that it only affects eye adaptation?

[modern wigeon]

hey guys so i have tried the Preem Optics mod for instant exposure adaptation when turning the camera
alas it introduces some wild flickering when driving/running around the city (apparently due to RR or FG or DLSS or all combined)

is there a mod that works without flickering?

[gleaming parrot]

if you don't mind something less vanilla, nova city redoes the exposure system in a very nice way. it looks natural and far less blown out but still has noticeable cinematic auto exposure. it's just a very nice weather mod, definitely recommend trying it out if you haven't. https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/12490

[floral bone]

try nova city2.

[noble willow]

ive been playing cp2077 for a few days now with this and it looks amazing but one thing ive noticed is that the nights are very bright

i cant tell if its intended for them to be like that or if something is wrong

like its clearly dark compared to daytime but theres still a lot of light around

[noble willow]

first is hdr, second is sdr

[brisk zodiac]

midpoint set to 1 in-game menu?

[brisk zodiac]

I just took your HDR screenshot and ran 50% brightness in SKIV

[noble willow]

yes

[ashen ether]

Is this vanilla LUT? It doesn't look like
If you're using a modded LUT, there's no way to know under what settings the author developed it
Exposure could end up completely inconsistent
#1434377434022809610 message
Refer, 0.5 matches the exposure of vanilla LUT

The game's exposure system is a complete mess—even opening different UIs triggers different exposure values

I discovered this issue because I modified the transparency of the main menu, only to find that it unexpectedly shares the same transparency setting with many other interfaces??
As a result, I could see the rendered scene behind the UI, and switching between them kept changing the exposure
Not to mention there are a ton of region-specific exposure issues on top of that

[arctic tide]

m,.dsfjkdfsjlkfkl;lkjlk;skldklkdkdkkdlsl;;hje;;po oil lovd tra

[formal orbit]

same bro, same

[noble willow]

this is fully vanilla

nothing is changed except installing renodx

stock settings on renodx

[ashen ether]

dunno then
but the exposure was completely abnormal, to the point that even the green tint was gone

[noble willow]

my color precision was on medium and not high

problem solved

thanks for the help

[modern wigeon]

so i tried the WIP build but i think i am doing something wrong here: everything is overly bright and colors look very washed out.
do i have to disable ingame HDR for this or anything?

[alpine spruce]

color precision high

[gleaming parrot]

Yeah color precision high, and make sure ingame hdr midpoint is set to 1 and pq saturation is set to 0

[modern wigeon]

color precision is in reno/reshade OSD?

[gleaming parrot]

Ingame graphics settings

[modern wigeon]

will check it out
not like you guys discussed this exact issue just above.... feeling mighty stupid 😄

in any case thanks!

btw there is a huge difference playing this game on a 800nits C9 oled and a ~2000nits G5
on the C9 the addon (not the wip) is perfect -- on the G5 the highlights burn out your retinas while i can hardly make out things in the shadows

[alpine spruce]

165hz with VRR on g5 ?

increase the black level setting on your tv to 53

if you want the absolute accurate image then you have to compromise with 120hz

[modern wigeon]

VRR yes + 165hz disabled in G5 osd (supposedly only dropping windows to 120hz doesn't get you around the problem)

[modern wigeon]

this is only for 165hz mode?

[alpine spruce]

yes

165hz with VRR

for 120hz with vrr or 165 without vrr its not needed

[modern wigeon]

yeah since i am not using that anyway i think my tv settings are correct

[alpine spruce]

not sure about the issue then

[modern wigeon]

@formal orbit reported similar issues so i guess it is a thing about the G5 -- with cyberpunk specifically
will report back how the WIP mod fares

[formal orbit]

wha

[modern wigeon]

oh just G5th-world-problems

(how) did you mitigate these in Cyberpunk?

[formal orbit]

i dont remember complaining about it in cyberpunk

i use my G5 with 120hz VRR, works flawlessly

[modern wigeon]

oh then i misunderstood. maybe i am just too much of a wuss to embrace the nits...

but since you're here: are you using GameMode HGiG or FMM with pro100 ?

[formal orbit]

fmm

[modern wigeon]

all enhancements off / FTDA, black details, etc -everything default?

[formal orbit]

at 120hz, yes.

[jaunty river]

any idea if future LG models can improve things in the above 120hz mode?

[formal orbit]

How would I know

Id hope so

[grand pulsar]

let me just call Mr. G and find out for u

[formal orbit]

[open yew]

is that dci-p3 ratio of 67 normal or did I mess something up never seen this high gamut usage before in any game

[tame canopy]

Math error likely.

Render is in bt709 and lut is in bt709. Vanilla HDR is cooked Saturation in AP1

[scenic pumice]

hello are there any recommended RenoDX settings for this game? or the defaults are ok? I lowered game brightness to 150 nits because 230 was way too bright for my eyes

[alpine spruce]

lut scaling needs to be set per scene ideally

everything else is personal preference (dont forget to set in game midpoint to 1.0)

[scenic pumice]

whats that?

you mean for every single place I go to?

[hardy atlas]

you can just set it to 0

[scenic pumice]

what does it do?

[alpine spruce]

48 is the safest value ive found

0 looks terrible, all John Silverhand missions would be completely capped to sdr range

[alpine spruce]

fixes raised black floor and clamped peak brightness

[scenic pumice]

sooooo 0 or 48 lol

hahahahaha

or should i just try both

[alpine spruce]

48

they have some sdr luts in hdr

0 does not match sdr

[scenic pumice]

ookay

will try that

later

[open yew]

why is it 100 as default then?

[ashen ether]

that's for the default vanilla lut
refer
#🆘helpdesk message
there are notifiers or something in the game that, can't remember exactly, change lut and env for specific quest phases

[open yew]

this shit is getting really complicated with all the luts envs mods and etc

[ashen ether]

they even use various envs to fk UI's exposure ripperdoc, map, chip.u can't figure out what they gonna do

[open yew]

I have novacity 2, relux and want to have a "fixed" experience in hdr, what do I do?

[scenic pumice]

soooo should I keep it at 100 for the default?

wait as I can see whjen it is lower it makes shadows brighter I guess?

[ashen ether]

if u’ve played vanilla way too many times, could just grab LUT Switcher and lock one lut for the whole run tbh
env mods are optional ,imo they affect the overall vibe way more
that said, vanilla auto exposure is kinda broken in a lot of spots, it's recommend using an env mod that fixes it
Nova City 2 is fine, even though I don’t really like how it looks with some vanilla weathers
I remember there are places in base game where the exposure is just straight-up wrong (too dark), Cy didn't fix those, but most of the overexposed stuff is already sorted
It also messes up the final exposure transition in the scene for the secret ending. I’d love to explain, but spoilers + it’s hard to put into words anyway. CDPR absolutely nailed that moment, other lut/env mods just can’t recreate it

[ashen ether]

lowering it will slightly reduce contrast, and 48 is acceptable. ​​below a certain point are completely unacceptable

0 simply ruins it, guess no lut can use this value

[open yew]

I haven't played vanilla, this is my first run, and your last sentence is why I prefer vanilla but also want the basic fixes like black floor fix, I just want the game to understand that I have some pixels which can go zero, but at the same time dont want to go too far from CDPR intention and cant see in total darkness while some lamps are in full blast. sorry for the dump
I did install novacity just because auto exposure was too much without it

[scenic pumice]

I just tried 100 and 48 and I am liking 100 more for some reason, the shadows are more dark is what I noticed

also I feel as though there is too much sharpness I think

with default settings

[ashen ether]

huh? u mean film grain?

reno should not affect sharpen

[scenic pumice]

I think it is because of my upscaling settings

yeah it does not have to do with reno

dlss sharpness was set to .80

[alpine spruce]

it has different types of luts that need different scaling

100 for sdr luts is crushed to hell

[minor compass]

what settings were u running in reno with preem? all default except the ones you mentioned?

[ashen ether]

I think whatever’s left just comes down to personal preference
even the ones I recommend are a bit biased toward my own taste
Preem has lower contrast than the vanilla lut — even with LUT Scaling at 100 — but honestly, I don’t really mind
roughly speaking, Preem at contrast 54 with LUT Scaling 45 looks almost the same as the vanilla lut at LUT Scaling 97
for exposure, I’d suggest sticking with 0.5
and don’t ask me why Cy later changed Preem to use double exposure, I’m worried that might just lead to unnecessary misunderstandings

[minor compass]

im currently just experimenting with luts and reno and stuff, trying to find what i like. I completed the game before with just vanilla lut + reno and tbh i did like it a lot in most spots, idk why they hate on the vanilla lut so much (if fixed i think its good). saw a lot of people recommend Nova 3 or Preem 3 and ive been trying those 2 and they are great but its just hard to decide tbf, cuz they all look different to each other, especially compared to vanilla obv

[scenic pumice]

any way to fix this level of brightness?

ok i lowered exposure from 1.0 to 0.5

[young tide]

hmm?

[brisk zodiac]

Disable the graph

It's in Reno menu, should be the last setting If I remember

[young tide]

worked thanks

[scenic pumice]

just noticed there are 3 presets, currently using the first one, what are the differences because I am not that smart to know what all the options do in RenoDX

[alpine spruce]

no you actually need to keep it to adjust lut scaling scene by scene

[alpine spruce]

its for you to compare your own settings

not actually a "preset"

[scenic pumice]

but what is the default settings then? preset #1?

[alpine spruce]

they are all default settings

you can think of them as different save slots

[scenic pumice]

yeah but all are different though

[alpine spruce]

do you mean the hdr look button

and just preset 1/2/3

[scenic pumice]

yes

[alpine spruce]

they are the same

[scenic pumice]

those

huh

for me they are different last time i checked

[alpine spruce]

it always uses preset 1 when you start the game

[scenic pumice]

ok then nvm

thanks

[alpine spruce]

preset 2/3 is just for comparison

[scenic pumice]

yeah i get it if you want to change some stuff and change it up

and compare

personally i only changed tone mapping or how was it called to 48 and exposure to 0.5 because the sun is a deadly lazer on 1.0

and gane and high brightness settings

[floral bone]

Can Lossless Scaling be used alongside renodx?

[formal orbit]

Afaik that shouldnt be a problem, just need HDR enabled in Lossless

[floral bone]

I’ll try it out later. I’m attempting to run Cyberpunk 2077 using dual graphics cards, employing Lossless Scaling to supplement frames with DLSS 3.

[formal orbit]

[brisk zodiac]

Frameslopmaxxing

[minor turret]

[velvet cargo]

should I enable the HDR10+ Gaming option with Reno?

[tame canopy]

Never tested it. But HDR10+ doesn't make sense for games, in general. Should be off

[vagrant condor]

should i use github version or wip version? @tame canopy

[tame canopy]

wip since you're here

basically wip is closer to SDR and repo/nexus is closer to the cooked vanilla HDR

[vagrant condor]

why dont you upload this better version on github? like i was playing with cooked hdr for 20 hours 🙁

[past locust]

disable

[past locust]

I agree with this shortfuse

also decouple the midpoint tonemap slider from reno

t

[tame canopy]

Last I checked the stuff I did for packed flags was buggy. Never got around to fixing it.

[past locust]

do you know why the mod would crash the game on an amd gpu ?

[tame canopy]

Not really. There's nothing that would violate AMD other than maybe some AMD specific code that doesn't run on Nvidia hardware. There's no texture or swapchain stuff going on

[alpine spruce]

amd gpu theres your answer

[tame canopy]

There should be some error recorded somewhere, but haven't heard of a game not working on AMD yet in general.

At best I've seen swapchain stuff working better with scRGB than HDR10

[alpine spruce]

i think there are some

let me check

[hardy atlas]

hitman

nvapi game, doesn't upgrade any textures and doesn't inject cbuffers. outputs black screen

[tame canopy]

FSR is probably the culprit if it exists, but I got FSR working on Starfield with custom swapchain

[alpine spruce]

there you go

instantly found one

[tame canopy]

Just shader replacement?

[hardy atlas]

ya

[alpine spruce]

atelier mod from marat

doesnt work on amd

[tame canopy]

Probably root signature jank. Some AMD code to validate it that not all games use, similar to Unreal checking for ray tracing via root signature

Dx12 I'm guessing

DX11 wouldn't have root signatures

[hardy atlas]

ya its dx12

not sure if the residetn evil games have issues on amd

[alpine spruce]

atelier games are dx11

[hardy atlas]

those are also dx12, nvapi (except for 4), and have rt like hitman

[alpine spruce]

with no native hdr

upgrades dont work on amd i guess

[hardy atlas]

the root signature stuff might also be why cbuffer injections aren't working in various games

the from soft mod also break when rt is enabled

[tame canopy]

I think @torn bone had to do something for monster hunter wilds for AMD, but could have been missing shaders

[hardy atlas]

mhwilds:

        if (is_not_nvidia) {
          // Give up for now
          if (param_count <= 20) {
            return true;
          }

          /* // AMD water bug
          // outputs & post process
          if (param_count == 15) {
            return true;
          }

          // UI
          if (param_count == 10 && params[1].descriptor_table.count == 1) {
            return true;
          } */
        } else {
          // err on the safe side for Nvidia
          if (param_count <= 20) {
            return true;
          }
        }

        return false;
      };

[tame canopy]

Atelier is probably the weirdest because it's dx11

But no dev here has AMD? I have some integrated AMD on my laptop but I always use the rtx 4050 on it

[alpine spruce]

probably some other koei tecmo games

[tame canopy]

Cp2077 only looks for one specific root signature, so it did work afaik

[alpine spruce]

marat told me that their games despite using different engines

[tame canopy]

Might be some specific AMD code in the game

[alpine spruce]

they all use similar or the same shaders for tonemapping and grading

[tame canopy]

Like, check texture creation code

But there's likely code running on AMD and not Nvidia is the point

So until DevKit can say what it is we don't know

[alpine spruce]

ya but i think all modders have nvidia gpus

[alpine spruce]

theres also an issue

old nvidia gpus dont work

someone reported one mod doesnt work for him on his 1080ti

forgot which

[past locust]

trying to figure it out with my friend

could be that the driver overrides fsr3 to 4 and reno crashes

or could be smthin else entirely

not that

so idk

[alpine spruce]

my guess is that

those mods probably dont work on an old nvidia gpu either

[past locust]

@tame canopy

in case you can figure something out

[tame canopy]

15:06:41:462 [26212] | WARN  | [RenoDX] mods::shader::OnInitPipelineLayout(Using last slot for buffer injection 0x0000024cf23e03b0: 13 )
15:06:41:462 [26212] | INFO  | [RenoDX] mods::shader::OnInitPipelineLayout(Creating D3D11 Layout 0x0000024cf23e0490: 1 )
15:06:41:462 [26212] | INFO  | [RenoDX] mods::shader::OnInitPipelineLayout(0x0000024cf23e03b0, injection index: 0, injection layout: 0x0000024cf23e0490, cbvIndex:13 )

modding dx11 as well

probably some amd dx11 proxy overlay thing

this is weird as well ```cpp
15:06:42:189 [26212] | DEBUG | [RenoDX] mods::shader::OnCreatePipelineLayout(Skipping empty pipeline layout creation)
15:06:42:189 [26212] | WARN | [RenoDX] mods::shader::OnInitPipelineLayout(Params not created for: 0x0000026d7b94dab0)

an empty root signature is usually a support check

the game isn't using pipeline cloning? i thought it did

in either case, it's rewriting the shader pipeline, which could be buggy on reshade itself, but hard to track down. pipeline modification/cloning relies on being able to reconstruct the original pipeline. sometimes some options don't clone right. wouldn't be the first time. there was a dx12 pipeline clone issue that caused artifacts on GTA5 and Starfield, but i fixed it in reshade itself.

[past locust]

can freesync premium pro do something like that ?

[alpine spruce]

completely unrelated

its the same thing as gsync

[alpine spruce]

do you have a friend who still owns a gtx 10 series gpu

[past locust]

I Know freesync premium pro does weird stuff

[alpine spruce]

[past locust]

sometimes u have to nuke it with cru

[alpine spruce]

shouldnt have anything to do with shaders

or the rendering

[tame canopy]

i can force no dx11 on cyberpunk

and it should be pipeline cloning anyway

but it is probably a reshade bug somewhere

[past locust]

Could try a prior reshade version ?

[past locust]

no success

hmm

6.5.1 crashes

[velvet cargo]

should I be changing the in-game settings?

[wary ember]

I think Reno overwrites all of em so doesn’t matter

Just set the correct settings in Reno

[hardy atlas]

Not for this game

[hardy atlas]

Peak matching whatever you set to in Reno, midpoint at 1, paper white is just ui brightness so it’s preference, and pq saturation at 0

[wary ember]

OH, I didn’t know this

I have mine wrong then lol

[hardy atlas]

The midpoint setting is a multiplier for exposure

Someone a while back had an issue with peak being different in game and in Reno’s menu

And pq saturation is just a bad saturation slider

[velvet cargo]

thanks! I think this info should be also on github and nexus

[hardy atlas]

Ya needs a GitHub discussion page, ShortFuse stopped uploading to nexus like a year ago since they don’t have a proper api for uploading

[ashen pendant]

So 48 LUT scaling is the new meta? Haha. Always played vanilla with a mindset of raised black floor is an effect form Kiroshi's haha. Gave RenoDX a go but was playing with 95 LUT scaling which I found very crushed and showed a lot of dithering. Guess will have to try this latest version. Is it out for peasants yet or still early access?

[alpine spruce]

adjusting it scene by scene is the best way rn

[tame canopy]

it's pinned

[ashen pendant]

I see. What would you define as a scene though?

[vital junco]

I have it set at 65. I know 48 covers more scenarios that would be crushed if it was set higher, but I just hop on to cruise around the city at this point as opposed to actually properly playing through the whole game

[alpine spruce]

use the debug layer

[ashen pendant]

Pinned says LUT at 95 though. Or are we talking just about LG G5? Did not read very closely haha. Was on phone killing time when I catch up with this thrread.

[tender meteor]

So it seems that i managed to find the fix (im the friend), turns out game crashes every single time when i start it normally, but if i start the .exe as admin it doesnt crash anymore and seems to work just fine

So if anyone has the same problem as i did (crash on startup, AMD 9070xt), here you go

[alpine spruce]

this game has sdr luts in hdr

they need better scaling method

48 is the best value rn (for those)

until shortfuse updates the mod

the best you can do is using the debug layer

[alpine spruce]

make the left part of the graph look like this

[ashen pendant]

Don't know how to interpret that graph haha. So I'd rather stick to 48 than cluelessly tunning each scene. Don't even know about debug haha...

[vital junco]

you want this sliver of pink on the left to be just about visible like so if you're doing it per scene

[past locust]

@tame canopy my friend with amd gpu fxed his crashes by running the game as admin

[hoary forge]

Hi! Should i use the wip version that's pinned or the github version?

[velvet cargo]

.

[velvet cargo]

do you mean 48 is the best overall, for all scenes? (atm)

[alpine spruce]

no

theres no one single best value

[velvet cargo]

also, should I edit reno to these values or keep the defaults as you said? I'm using the WIP version

[alpine spruce]

vanilla isnt always good

[velvet cargo]

okay so what values do you think are best to set and forget? lol

[alpine spruce]

48 lut scaling

you do get some raised blacks

[velvet cargo]

I have an OLED so blacks are important but I guess I have to accept some sacrifices which is fine

how about highlights, contrast, and saturation?

[ashen pendant]

What's the big thing about the WIP version that you guys started talking this much about Cybeprunk HDR again?

[alpine spruce]

personal preference

[alpine spruce]

it now uses SDR as the baseline (which is basically all other mods do now)

before it only fixed the math error in native hdr

(because its the first renodx mod, and shortfuse was still trying to figure things out)

[ashen pendant]

I see. I see. It was indeed now that you mention it... The amount of time ShortFuse and RenoDX people put into this game is crazy haha. But it definitely paid out. Now it's like a few hours until a new release have HDR working very close to an ideal implementation.

[ashen pendant]

I've been checking SDR agains vanilla SDR and isnt van HDR way darker than SDR? Tjis is why I first found new RenoDX settings to ver kinf of "washed out" or way brighter?

SDR/RenoDX off/SDR look

I think it's almost there but it's so hard for me to compare SDR to HDR in windows with the toggle. How do you guys usually do it?

But I think I understand the adjusting per scene now haha. Some are really dark in SDR and HDR makes them brighter.

[tame canopy]

Stay in Windows HDR. Compare HDR with SRGB vs SDR in Windows HDR

2.2 is for consumption, not comparison

[alpine spruce]

what if a game is encoded with 2.2

[tame canopy]

Nobody encodes with inverse 2.2 unless it's out of a lut. Very rare. Only Batman AK I've seen

[ashen pendant]

Capturing with ReShade and opening the images with Chrome if SDR content slider is set to 31 would display the image as if I was watching it with HDR toggle off?

[alpine spruce]

the witcher 3 ?

also fromsoftware games (not sure if they are out of luts)

[ashen pendant]

Learned to play with the debugger and I found 65 likea really good value. Then I came searching for this thinking somebody mentioned that exact number. You not alone haha.

[velvet cargo]

by RenoDX off, do you mean native HDR?

[ashen pendant]

Yes. I think if you set like this it's like if you had it deactivated in the add-ons section of ReShade.

[velvet cargo]

I see, any by the SDR look you're referring to the WIP version

[ashen pendant]

To this toggle here.

This are my settings now on an LG C9.

[hardy atlas]

vanilla hdr is deep fried

[hardy atlas]

fromsoft uses 2.2 encode before lut and 2.2 decode after if hdr is enabled for the itm then back to 2.2 encode for ui compositing

[ashen pendant]

I had no idea! Different everything now that I compare it.

[alpine spruce]

what about tw3

[alpine spruce]

sdr look makes no sense with the current build

[hardy atlas]

they encode 2.2

[alpine spruce]

vanilla hdr is double aces iirc

[alpine spruce]

i mean the order

i know its 2.2

[hardy atlas]

2.2 encode before lut, 2.2 decode after lut

then 2.2 encode again at the end

[ashen pendant]

SDR/RenoDX LUT scal. 65/Native HDR

[alpine spruce]

not much different from fromsoft ?

[ashen pendant]

Colors a bit more dull in RenoDX against SDR? Like in the red graffiti.

[alpine spruce]

sdr is per channel

which adds a lot of saturation to shadows

this game has a lot of shadowed regions

so its quite noticeable

skintones are pretty bad in sdr

colors wont match unfortunately

its another game thats plagued by per channel tonemapping

[ashen pendant]

I used to check the per-channel setting looking at ads, it changes a lot there. Forgot about it so that might be it.What I did now is increasing saturation by 2 points to "fix" it for my brain.

[alpine spruce]

that would actually be a good fix though

[velvet cargo]

would you say 2 here is deep fried?

1 / 2
Default Reno / Values in the pinned messages by ShortFuse
both are 65 LUT

[alpine spruce]

you might need more lut scaling here tbh

turn on the debug graph to check

[ashen pendant]

Yeah. You guys have a crusade agains per-channel and always complain about it being a real problem in shadows. haha. I'm still not that sensitve to it but I'd love to learn where to look.

[alpine spruce]

per channel also blows out highlights

vanilla highlights look desaturated a lot

[velvet cargo]

I'm following the graph actually as you suggested before

oh wait

[alpine spruce]

its not too bad

[alpine spruce]

ya contrast slider affects it

you are crushing shadows

if the graph looks like that

[hardy atlas]

looks a little crushed but the game often looks crushed in sdr

[ashen pendant]

Yeah! Thanks for the rundown, I'm remembering my previous experiences now haha. This is why I decided to keep luminance. Vanilla neons and such looked "almost" white.

[velvet cargo]

here's a better comparison

Default Reno / Pinned Values

[velvet cargo]

true I was crushing shadows by mistake as polly pointed out

[ashen pendant]

I'd personally go for crushed in this game rather that trying to achieve a perfect value. Fits more Night City.

[ashen pendant]

Yeah, I wouldn't touch highlights, contrast or saturation either.

[velvet cargo]

but if you'd go for crushed, you'll need to adjust these 3 settings

[ashen pendant]

I mean between LUT scaling 48, 65 or 95 crush.

RenoDX LUT scal. 95/SDR

Thouths on this? I keep finding this area of the game way darker in SDR that anything I can try to march using RenoDX.

[velvet cargo]

left looks better, so right is probably the "correct" one

[ashen pendant]

Anyways. Thies new WIP version, even at LUT scaling 100, is way less crushed than previous releases, right?

[alpine spruce]

previous version has like 1.2x contrast

which is about 60 contrast on the wip build

[ashen pendant]

I see. Want to give this new WIP a shot, because previously it felt fatiguing at times playing Cyberpunk between squinting in the dark and being blinded by that many light sources haha.

My previous full playthrough to be honest was with Vanilla HDR. haha. Then gave RenoDX a shot but quit at about 20 hours in.

[ashen pendant]

Lol this was me as soon as I booted WIP mod haha...

[ashen pendant]

I've been trying to match SDR to RenoDX in this particular scene and not sure if it's supposed to look like this...

This is SDR. You cannot se much of the boxes to the right, cannot see the concrete in the ceiling. It's definitely crushed, but... "intended™"?

Now the supposedly correct one guided by the debug graph at LUT scaling 65 looks way brighter. While you can make every detail, I'm not sure if it was supposed to look like this.

So if we use the debug graph to tweak the scene that means we're matching the LUTs to its ideal values and if it does not match how I perceive it on SDR, then SDR has some weird stuff baked in making it look wrong?

[alpine spruce]

just adjust the lut scaling based on the graph

no need to match sdr

their sdr is bad

[ashen pendant]

At least now I can see how botched vanilla HDR was despite it giving you good first impressions, if you compare you see it's off in so many aspects. Vanilla SDR looks much clear and pleasing. I'm really looking for with another playthrough.

But even SDR baseline being kind of all over the place for RenoDX to enhance to HDR... Can it be ever fixed or is it broken beyond repair?

Also about film grain. It was confusing beofre but I never seen it affecting highlights. Can I just turn it off in the game menu and call it? I don't want gilm grain in this title at all.

[ashen pendant]

SDR. No details in the very dark walls to the sides.

LUT scalling 95/ LUT Scalling 65.

I'm having a hard time trying to understand why having a raised black floor that does not match SDR is considered to be the best option due to debug graph saying so haha 😅

[alpine spruce]

thats how the rendering is

when we talk about raised black floor

it generelly means a luts that raises the shadows

not the case here

real perfect black barely exists

both in games and irl

in games its mostly from grain or sharpening

[ashen pendant]

But the so called intended look here would be crushed shadows, right? RenoDX gives the option to fix it, but at the same time it'd defy the purpose of matching SDR if I understand this whole thing correctly haha.

Fell asleep last night reading this thread trying to catch up and understand haha.

[ashen pendant]

Any reports about UI brightness going past specified nits in the game's menu? It's happening to me.

[tame canopy]

I don't touch the UI implementation

[ashen pendant]

Guess it's the game itself then. Never noticed, but always ran it al 100 nits. Now I had it set up at 180 until I realized it felt super bright and was shooting to 400 nits.

Even now at 100 as it's in the video it can go X2 brightness.

Feels like a brand new game with this RenoDX version though. Amazing once you get used to a more subtle tone.

[mint ridge]

If you're referring to loading screens or when loading back to main menu, it's because in the background the game world is loaded and the light accumulation thingy makes it all super bright which these loading steps get impacted by

Sometimes you can see it not settled in just yet when getting in game

[hardy atlas]

the ui just clips in sdr

that's why text is orange in hdr but yellow in sdr

usually its the glowing effect on the ui elements that goes over sdr range

[ashen pendant]

I noticed this about loading screen going super bright, but only since the latest update when they changed some HDR previewing menu stuff.

[ashen pendant]

But notice the video how it increases brightness when I look to a birghter area. Might be just be because it's transparent? Although I've never noticed this kind of behavior in the UI in any game.

[mint ridge]

It's always been there in HDR tho (maybe in SDR too, idk)

But it's mostly with RT or PT enabled iirc

[hardy atlas]

probably some behavior to keep it visible

[brisk zodiac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdjwmEbyNXQ This?

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/23420

Suzie fixed that problem

[ashen pendant]

Sosuine's mods are the best! Although that never happend to me that I recall.

Map with RenoDX WIP is still cursed right? Not a big deal though.

[brisk zodiac]

Cursed in what way?

[alpine spruce]

lut order after tonemapper

so its looks fucked

[brisk zodiac]

ahh

Look forward to seeing W4 shenanigans

triple ACES

[alpine spruce]

double ITM

ACES isnt the issue anymore though

ACES2.0 is just reinhard by luminance

i doubt they will use it though

[mint ridge]

Alas he didn't really

Only in some cases but so far his mod has been mostly uneffective for me with that "nuke like flashbang"

[brisk zodiac]

welp oof

RedEngine 4 keeps on giving

[wary ember]

Yep same for me

[formal orbit]

pumbo gotta bully them into cooperating

[ashen pendant]

Would something like this fix the map for RenoDX WIP?

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/18269

Not very vanilla, but let's be real: vanilla map is disgusting haha.

[tame canopy]

map uses post tonemap lut i think

so a new lut/env for it would probably work

the first thing they ever built was probably the map

[ashen pendant]

I just tried and... I does not. Might try different mods related to maps to see.

[ashen pendant]

Tried many and this is the only one that works since it replaces the whole map. It's really neat though.

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/17811?tab=description

Paperwhite/UI at 100 and 200. 200 looks better, but since this game's UI brightness is doing whatever it wants... Better to keep it in check.

[obtuse python]

should i use this or the one from nexus mods, im new to hdr

[vital junco]

the pinned one in this channel

[obtuse python]

this is what i get using this addon

[ashen pendant]

You have to toggle Debug graph off in the settings.

This last setting here.

#1434377434022809610 message

[obtuse python]

ohh okay thanks

are there any settings i should correct in renodx for better image

and can i use this addon with any reshade i want

[vital junco]

adjust game brightness to your own preferences (typically between 100 - 203) and set peak brightness to whatever your display is capable of; LUT scaling is a bit mixed, but try 48, 65 and 95 and use whichever you like the most

defaults for everything else are good

most reshades are made for SDR

[obtuse python]

i have hdr 400 and hdr 1000, but i think its recommended to use hdr 400 true black for my display, so is that important to set it to that exactly? and not leave at 1000?

[vital junco]

it's up to you. 1000 will have brighter highlights, but at the cost of an overall dimmer image and vice versa for TB400

set in-game Cyberpunk HDR settings midpoint to 1.0, btw

[obtuse python]

where do i do that

[vital junco]

uhhh think it's under the display tab of the menu, then HDR has its own section you have to press a button prompt to access

[ashen pendant]

I'd say boost saturation slightly helps a bit matching SDR even at LUT scaling 95. I went for always LUT 95 unless I find the game really crushed. Which is way less common that in previous versions of this mod. Saturation 52.

[obtuse python]

so reshades not recommended then?

for hdr

[obtuse python]

you mean gamma correction? im confused

[vital junco]

no, the in-game setting, not via RenoDX

[ashen pendant]

If you want fidelity and as close as possible image to as developers designed the worlds ReShades are not the way to go. If you want a different look... Go crazy. People use LUT mods mostly I think.

[vital junco]

just a random screen I grabbed from google, but the bottom left setting here set to 1.0

[ashen pendant]

This in the bottom left.

[ashen pendant]

Does film grain need to be toggled on or that a past thing?

[vital junco]

I think you can just disable it and set it to 0 via Reno nowadays if you don't want it

[obtuse python]

aight i set it to 1.0

isnt the max brightness setting controlled by the monitor anyway, if i set it to 1k it would dim as mine is a qd oled, it would burn in seconds at full brightness 1000 nits lmao

[vital junco]

burn in is a meme not worth worrying about

a lot of people here will recommend TB400 due to more accurate tracking, but just swap between the two modes in a few games and see whichever you like more

[ashen pendant]

And if I disable completely in-game? If I disable it on RenoDX but have the effect on in-game when I try to compare vanilla SDR is another step I have to go to turn off.

[vital junco]

I think that's fine? I'm a film grain enjoyer, so I can't say with certainty as I've not tried disabling it

[obtuse python]

and i should use scrgb yeah?

omg it looks so much better now

with these settings and this addon, i tried hdr before and it was horrible idk just a mess

[vital junco]

scrgb won't work with frame generation, just something to keep in mind if you're using frame gen

[obtuse python]

ah nah i dont, my 5070ti maxes this game out on path tracing ultra 1440p

[vital junco]

oh, in-game colour precision needs to be set to high, too

[obtuse python]

with dlss quality ofc

anyway uh things look pretty bright now, brighter than in sdr

though i am in city centre

i might like peak 1000 more just because the game is less bright giving more of that nightly feeling, anyway thanks for the help

[ashen pendant]

Loved film grain and lens effects in a game like Star Wars Outlaws but it does not suit Cyberpunk too much for my taste. I might go 10 perceptual tops.

[vital junco]

I find the default 50 a bit heavy, I use 30 - 40 in Cyberpunk and 20 with Musa's RDR2 mod

[wary ember]

Does Reno work well with special K in this game? I’ve been trying to use Display commander but I can’t get it to work and special k always gives me issues

[mint ridge]

Is yesterday's snapshot based on the old one or the wip one ?

[loud magnet]

Noob question, sorry if its been asked before. But based on some comments I have been hearing that the defaults arent always the best settings. Any discussions on LG C2 or general guidance I can follow up optimize what I should I have set in the reshade menu?

[past locust]

Worked for me

[wary ember]

How did you load both programs? I always get a bit confused by this process

[past locust]

installed reshade normally with reno

renamed dxgi.dll to reshade64.dll

launch game from sk

[wary ember]

Gotcha, will try that thanks!

Welp, doesnt even launch for me like that

I crash lol

[wary ember]

I really don´t know why people uses SK without issues and I can´t use it in any game lol

[ashen pendant]

Are you using the pinned version?

[minor compass]

in cyberpunk i set a injection delay for SK, crashes only rarely on startup

[wary ember]

How do you do that?

Tried adding 5.0 global delay and nah still crashes

[loud magnet]

I’m using the snapshot from GitHub

[ashen pendant]

Not sure if it's the latest. maybe @mint ridge found out.

But as for now. i'd say defaults are more than fine, they match SDR (grading?) and I'd just adjust film grain to your taste.

It is very important you do this as well.

#1434377434022809610 message

[mint ridge]

I must confess I have not, been toying with new DLSS but didn't swap addons to check

[loud magnet]

latest from github is from yesterday

[ashen pendant]

Guess it'd be the one pinned here then.

[tame canopy]

that's by last commit in the folder

which was just metadata stuff

[minor compass]

so the pinned wip is still the newest technically right?

[minor compass]

just click open on the SpecialK.ini when ur on cyberpunk, i have global delay on 10 secs rn, but i dont always run cyberpunk with sk lately

[loud magnet]

Is it worth adjust game brightness option at all?

[wary ember]

Will try 10. 5 didn’t work

[wary ember]

Oh shit 10s worked!

Thanks a bunch man

[wary ember]

Just tried the new WIP Reno and I gotta say... I don´t like it lol

I know its more accurate and whatnot

But I guess Im too used to the vanilla HDR/old Reno

[tame canopy]

there should be an HDR Look button no?

[olive cloak]

did you ever strip the aces out of the luts?

looking through old messages and you said that using upgrade tonemap could maybe work

[ashen pendant]

There is an SDR button which lowers sat. and contrast even more so people might be confused haha...

[wary ember]

Only sdr

[thick summit]

Reno HDR Wip + No LUT/Vanilla looks pretty good to me

[wary ember]

Ok yeah this is better

[scenic pumice]

ah fuck

I just wanted to rephrase didnt think I asked correctly

nvm

thanks

I do not have some of the settings that you have, do I have to add an add-on?

[thick summit]

I found with any of the LUTs the debug graph with Reno was all over the place, so I settled with no LUT (or I guess, Vanilla), then tweaked thew settings a touch so the graph looked good for my set up.

I'm using this one

I also have all the graphics settings maxed out, with Path Tracing etc.

[scenic pumice]

yeah that obviously changes stuff

I dont have the power for path tracing lol

how can I even add this add on? I put it in the search path but I still cant find it

[thick summit]

Pretty sure you just manually drop it in your game folder

[scenic pumice]

yeah did that, will try to restart now

[thick summit]

I think I renamed it to the same name as the old version I had, not sure if that is a necessary step though

[scenic pumice]

yeah it shows an error

that it is the same name as the default add on

how do I cahnge the name?

because I kinda want to compare them and have both of them here

[thick summit]

I'd imagine you won't be able to have both versions in there at the same time unfortunately, but I don't really know enough to troubleshoot that

[scenic pumice]

well this is not working lol

I moved the default one and put the wip

now it looks weird

I will just reverse to the default lol

[thick summit]

Fair enough!

[wicked zinc]

Is this how RenoDX supposed to look? I tried both from nexus and the github snapshot, but it darkens too much on my end

This is vanilla

[vital junco]

use the pinned version in this channel

[hardy atlas]

also requires tonemap midpoint set to 1 and color precision set to high

[wary ember]

I just ran around with the 60 and 60 contrast and sat settings and it looks damn good

So damn impressive in the G5 also with the neons

[remote karma]

For some reason I find that the regular version on github looks much better than the wip here on my G5. The wip is kind of washed out no matter the settings compared to the regular. There is also a difference in how the game brightness is handled between the 2. At 203 night time is handled better on regular whereas wip is very brightened, I found game brightness on 100 looks better at night in wip but then not quite right at day. Could not find a reasonable compromise. I obviousness did play extensively with the settings including lut scaling using the debug graph but besides near black improvements it did not change much else. Once I slap the regular version the overall presentation is easily seen much balanced even with the defaults.

[novel hinge]

can RenoDX work with Nova Lut 3.0?

[worthy isle]

Works just fine. Set lut scaling to 1 though as it was already mastered for certain nits for it's intended look. You need to set it at 1 to make sure the sun shows up.

[novel hinge]

Would you recommend it over Vanilla? I'm still undecided

[worthy isle]

Personally I think RenoDRT is a much better option than the stock aces horror show but that's just me. Cyanide made it with the vanilla tone mapping solution in mind so it's kind of up to you if you want more control or would prefer to see the author's intent. Either way it'll look great 🙂

[noble willow]

wip is based on sdr

it’s more accurate to the original

[remote karma]

I know this of course that’s why I’m a bit puzzled. I’ve been beta testing renodx since its inception couple of years ago.

[noble willow]

if you compare wip to sdr it looks close

if you compare the github build to sdr it looks completely different

which isn’t the point of hdr

[vital junco]

I'd say the WIP build is the best Cyberpunk's ever looked

[wicked zinc]

Tried the pinned version now, but it's still is very dark and I see black crush. There's also that colored box on top right corner of the screen for some reason

[vital junco]

bring up the Reno settings and disable the show debug option at the very bottom

set LUT Scaling to 48 or 65 if you find it too dark

and the in-game HDR settings midpoint should be 1.0

[vital junco]

here's what mine looks like at 203 brightness/1000 peak at 65 LUT scaling with defaults for everything else

[wicked zinc]

I did as you said, but still looks off and overly dark, my monitor is Alienware AW2725D if that makes a difference

The settings

[vital junco]

@wicked zinc change the tone mapper at the top from ACES to RenoDRT

that's the latest pinned one in this channel

[alpine spruce]

ya i risread

[vital junco]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[alpine spruce]

thought its from 2024

[wicked zinc]

Did as you said, dark areas improved but vibrancy is reduced and kinda looks a bit washed out

[vital junco]

yes, that's expected, it's based on the SDR look of the game, not the original HDR look

put LUT scaling at 65 or 95 and see if you like that more