The Witcher 3

[cold basin]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-dog-silly-dog-propeller-hat-propeller-hat-dog-gif-4764495627579170054

[rare scroll]

you are going to experience the peak 3 with great hdr

[cold basin]

the framepacing with FG is awful

[stark anvil]

the framepacing in general is bad

with RT

input lag also skyrockets if you don't use a framerate cap

[cold basin]

i am capping with rtss

[stark anvil]

I don't think reflex works correctly in this game

[cold basin]

100 ms latency

tf

lemme try display commander

[stark anvil]

I use the pace native frames thing in SK

[cold basin]

i will not use sk

[stark anvil]

[cold basin]

display commander reflex cap works

framepacing fine now

also 35ms lag now at 60 to 120 FG capped

poggies

[quiet sandal]

Skill issue

I ran at 27-30ms

[cold basin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-shut-up-bitch-gif-24566267

already fixed

[abstract tulip]

Gotta try this out too

[night yarrow]

dont cap fps with rtss with fg

[cold basin]

Yeah doesn’t work I assume it’s some fuckery with the ancient Streamline

[night yarrow]

uh actually you can, just switch to the reflex cap

[cold basin]

Or well it works but it’s pacing is fucked

[night yarrow]

uh

[cold basin]

I use display commander now but yeah didn’t think of that

[night yarrow]

i play it with fg and vysnc 138fps locked in 144hz

frame pacing is good

[cold basin]

My 4090 struggling to keep 156 or 144 even with Fg

[night yarrow]

need 5090

[cold basin]

So I’m just capping 120

[night yarrow]

im using 77% scaling

[cold basin]

I use 66💀

[night yarrow]

67% is way too easy for 5090

[cold basin]

I think I still have some ini that pushes graphics tho

Prolly that’s the issue

[night yarrow]

same

[cold basin]

Nvm then

[night yarrow]

i have a mod that improves rt

[cold basin]

4090 just too weak

[cold basin]

Which?

[night yarrow]

cost like 10%

i actually dont remember the name

but the perf cost is 10%

I play the modded cod games with 4xSSAA with filmic smaa t2x btw, need 8k for 5090 to unleash its full power

[regal hamlet]

How does improve RT man? I was playing it today with HD Reworked Project Mod and looked stunning

But with DLAA performances are not stable, I think it's kinda broken

[night yarrow]

It improves rt shadows and reflections

improves the bvh quality

[regal hamlet]

I want to play again the game, but I'm getting frustrated by the combat system which aged so bad

[regal hamlet]

Is it stable?

[night yarrow]

there are mods for it

ya

its probably just called better rt or something

Well if mean performance

[regal hamlet]

Visually, it has only one major issue for me: pop-ups

[night yarrow]

this game is just ass in terms of that

traversal stutters everywhere

[regal hamlet]

It runs better than today's UE5 games, just some traversal stutter

[night yarrow]

not really much

you can also be extremely cpu limited in areas with a lot of npcs

[regal hamlet]

Also I don't understand why DLSS Balanced looks bad

[night yarrow]

the rt perf in this game is just borked

[regal hamlet]

I think is because of how the game LOD is designed

If you stay on quality is still good

After you go down to balanced the DLSS gets a bad hit

[night yarrow]

nah its because the next gen version is just unfinished

[stark anvil]

transparencies looks like ass with upscaling

but you can't (reasonably) use RT without it so

[regal hamlet]

Yep, DLAA is broken also, very unstable

[night yarrow]

it was handled by saber russia

[stark anvil]

I wonder if it's fixable in the shaders

[night yarrow]

Particularly bad with transformer sr

[regal hamlet]

Yes and I don't understand why

[night yarrow]

because transformer model just doesnt handle disocclusion and transparencies effectively

[regal hamlet]

In Alan Wake it does

[night yarrow]

transformer rr can fix the fog issue

but not everything

ya because aw2 has rr

[regal hamlet]

I wanted to play again TW3 so bad, but this combat system put me off

[night yarrow]

Transformer sr alone is broken in almost all ue games

[regal hamlet]

I think I will just try to play KCD2

[night yarrow]

You get some serious shimmering on foliage

and fog is broken most of the time

Also on things like waterfall

[stark anvil]

I don't hate the combat in tw3, but it's not great by any means lol

[regal hamlet]

You know, I think Transformer implementation has some issues just with Unreal

[night yarrow]

its not the implementation

[stark anvil]

slowly working through a death march playthrough for the first time and I'm enjoying it more than previously

[regal hamlet]

If you check it on Avatar it's perfect

[night yarrow]

its the tech itself is flawed

nah its not perfect in any game

[regal hamlet]

Sure it is, but check games with different Engine

[stark anvil]

I think it's a combo in tw3's case tbh

[night yarrow]

ya it can be particularly bad in some games

[regal hamlet]

Cyberpunk, Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Indiana Jones

I believe it does a great job

[night yarrow]

all have issues

[stark anvil]

like preset D looks ass in tw3 in ways that aren't true in most other games too

[night yarrow]

and 3 of them has rr

[regal hamlet]

Much better than CNN

[night yarrow]

ya

because of rr

cnn rr is dogshit

and nrd is bad

[regal hamlet]

Some preset K look bad

[stark anvil]

yeah in some games it's unuseable

[regal hamlet]

I mean, worst than the previous

[night yarrow]

d looks ass in a lot of games

like insane ghosting

[stark anvil]

what I mean is that every texture in the game suffers from massive ghosting issues

that's not as bad as it normally is lol

the implementation of DLSS and other upscalers is just bad here

[night yarrow]

ghosting is an issue from preset d in general

[regal hamlet]

Have you guys tried Reworked Project Textures?

[night yarrow]

Just like preset k suffers from volumetric fogs

[regal hamlet]

It is mind blowing

[regal hamlet]

Too much, and all UE5 have this shitty fog

[night yarrow]

probably the model itself just doesnt work with the rendering well

[regal hamlet]

Overall J preset still better IMO

[stark anvil]

they have some transparent layers over most textures in the game, and that causes blurring

[night yarrow]

not really

[stark anvil]

preset J was really bad imo

[night yarrow]

if you want transformer in ue

you want rr

but you cant just force that with ini

[regal hamlet]

In motion for me it's the best

I don't agree

[night yarrow]

need a mod like ultra plus

[stark anvil]

foliage looks worse than fsr2 with preset J in most games I tested

[night yarrow]

in all ue games

[regal hamlet]

If you try preset J in All RE game looks better

I did a test recently

[stark anvil]

I think there are people that will prefer that raw look that preset j has sometimes, I'm not one of them lol

[regal hamlet]

Like Monster Hunter

[night yarrow]

Transformer in ue is only fixable with rr

[regal hamlet]

Resident Evil 4

[night yarrow]

im not going back to shimmery mess era lol

you sure

moster hunter wilds

[regal hamlet]

Boys have you played KCD2?

[night yarrow]

insanely bad with transformer sr

[stark anvil]

there was no winning in mh wilds for me

and no I haven't played kcd2

[night yarrow]

game is just ass

[stark anvil]

never finished the first game so yeah lol

[night yarrow]

everything in that game is mid

didnt even finish that even with renodx

[stark anvil]

but yeah, mh wilds preset E was soft and bad, preset k was sharper but had regular fog issues

[regal hamlet]

I don't know what to play, I'm spending my time just looking at RENODX presets FFS

[night yarrow]

without it i dont even want to open it

[night yarrow]

dlaa brute force it

[stark anvil]

5070 TI, not a good option lol

[night yarrow]

1080p

esports experience

well

theres a similar case

[regal hamlet]

eSports go 1440p nowadays

[night yarrow]

tlou2

Cs2 players still use 1080

preset e in tlou2 looks super soft

and k has shimmering on grass

[regal hamlet]

Imif you try PSSR looks super sharp

[night yarrow]

i brute force it with preset f dlaa with liliums hdr cas

[regal hamlet]

I don't like it on TLOU2

[regal hamlet]

Is it possible?

[night yarrow]

i think the issue is that the game is built with a strong sharpening filter

so when you turn it off it just looks soft

and the sharpening is bad

[regal hamlet]

I'd rather play soft than super sharp

[night yarrow]

on console they kept it on even with pssr i guess

[regal hamlet]

It must be then cause it's insanely sharp

[night yarrow]

while in spideman 2 the sharpening is gone when using pssr

basically almost all those sony games have a strong sharpening filter thats not exposed to the users on console

[regal hamlet]

Last Sony exclusive I played on PC was Ragnarok but I don't remember it being so sharp

[night yarrow]

it also has a forced sharpening but its not as strong as both tlou

[rugged nest]

Wait up what’s this? You can’t just enable FG in this game and that’s it?

Gotta try FG now that I’m no longer capped to 60hz (upgraded to a G5 this week)

I was barely hitting 60fps with dlss perf before. Should be well above 100 with FG now

[cold basin]

Witcher has like a century old NVIDIA Streamline files

[plush ember]

Witcher 3 next gen, is an unoptimised product. When witcher 3 released devs actually released lots of updates and listened to the community. Even the expansion dlcs were fairly priced. Now it's left in a ignored state.

[chilly crest]

Literally. I wanted to replace them with newer ones to try out x3 FG, the shit didn't even start up. If I remember correctly streamline files with < v2.0 cannot get upgraded. Sadge

[chilly crest]

I don't know if people still remember the launch day. It wasn't horrible as Cyberpunk but it was really buggy

[cold basin]

Yeah you’re stuck with the old shit sadly

[regal hamlet]

Yeah I figured that

[night yarrow]

its was and still is worse than cyberpunk at launch

cyberpunk did not have any framepacing issue even at launch

[regal hamlet]

You didn't try it on PS4 though

I was driving with buildings and bridges loading and zero crowd

[regal hamlet]

If you only consider the PC segment you might be right, but you gotta put consoles into the equation

On the other hand TW3 on Xbox was playing extremely well

[stark anvil]

Cyberpunk wasn’t only technically bad either

[night yarrow]

i dont play games on conslop

[night yarrow]

hdr is insanely bad technically

[regal hamlet]

Now I agree with you, up to 5/7 years back you could play some games on console only

[chilly crest]

I was actually talking about gameplay bugs in launch Witcher 3 and that these kind of bugs were still not THAT bad as launch of Cyberpunk xd. I hope Witcher 1 Remake and Witcher 4 just work at launch. I don't want to wait a year or so for them to fix it.

[cold basin]

you know damn well youll wait a year

[chilly crest]

Btw. do you know any way to force Reflex On+Boost when using FG?

[rugged nest]

I know damn well I’ll play at launch with bugs and again in 1/2y without bugs and mods

[cold basin]

is it not an option ingame?

[chilly crest]

Nah. It forces "on" and you cannot change it back to on+boost

Normally I feel a bit lower latency when I use reflex = on+boost in games or force Low latency mode = ultra through Nvidia control panel. That is why, I am searching for a way to force it :/

[cold basin]

oh

well my experience is mixed with the boost option

[chilly crest]

Really? Sometimes you get a bit less fps but the game feels much more smooth. For example FF15, it is really "laggy" when you turn your mouse. It feels like FG with base fps 30. But when I force LLM = ultra for that game, it feels smooth 😄

There was a game though that was crashing for me with that option on.

I don't remember what though

[cold basin]

i can toggle it here not sure if it works tho

latency reading in nvidia overlay is pretty much same

33-40ms at 120fps cap

with fg

[chilly crest]

Is this the commando thing you said?

[chilly crest]

.

[cold basin]

yuh

[chilly crest]

Wait, what is the name of this software? (I couldn't find it by that name xd) Edit: wait, I just say it on top next to renodx. Do I download it when installing/upgrading Reshade?

[rugged nest]

Oh wow what’s this?

It’s a reshade add on ?

[chilly crest]

https://github.com/pmnoxx/reshade-display-commander/releases

I found iot

[rugged nest]

Seems useful! Will be a new must have from now on probably

[cold basin]

bros

its on this server

#1423918603035476041

[ashen spruce]

FYI, I tried this TW3 RenoDX mod and after the usual installation, it didn't work properly, tone mapping sliders and profiles were missing

[cold basin]

tf

[ashen spruce]

switching the game between exclusive fullscreen and borderless window (and back) was suggested in Nexus Mods, in the bugs section, and it helped

[cold basin]

You shouldn’t play exclusive anyways.

[ashen spruce]

I always play borderless window, because in the exclusive fullscreen it takes like half a minute for my OLED monitor to switch while alt-tabbing

[cold basin]

ah it sounded like you switched from exclusive to borderless and back to exclusive

[night yarrow]

monitorslop

takes forever to handshake

[rugged nest]

Happens with TVs too

[night yarrow]

take 2sec on lg tv

[stark anvil]

It’s a bug with the hdr swap chain detection. Not sure why it happens sometimes.

[fleet flume]

Nvapi trash

[regal hamlet]

https://youtu.be/JOLUthOwPRw?si=sJz3e2WfYtYjxKtr

[split wigeon]

Dude always pushing further, awesome ! 🙂

[regal hamlet]

I love this guy

[cold basin]

No way 😭

[split wigeon]

The year is 2030, TW3 has received its 10th HDRP update, running the game now requires 48GB of VRAM for maximum quality visuals

[cold basin]

Also need RTX 8090 because they added pathtracing

[split wigeon]

If only

[cold basin]

Not sure how much that would do in that game tbh, but in cyberpunk due to all the crazy lighting n stuff it’s truly a step up from normal RT

[split wigeon]

Fair

Should Nvidia come up with a truly breakthrough algo to improve PT massively both in perf and quality, this should get backported

[cold basin]

For sure

[regal hamlet]

Well the Megalight in UE Engine seems to go in that direction

[split wigeon]

UE though... :/

RTX Mega Geo is nice otherwise but it's heavy af

Tried the bonsai demo ?

[regal hamlet]

If the Coalition will fail to optimize UE then there is no hope.

It's the last test

[split wigeon]

Spoiler alert, there is no hope lol

[regal hamlet]

I'll wait for Gears to declear it hopeless

[night yarrow]

because the normal rt in cyberpunk basically doesnt include rtgi

[cold basin]

makes sense

[night yarrow]

in game already has good rtgi adding pt doesnt not make that big a difference

(doom the dark ages

[night yarrow]

in normal rt only with it set to insane you get one bounce gi from the sun and thats it, every other indirect lighting is done by rasterization

there was no feasable rtgi solution in 2020

for triple a games

[cold basin]

does witcher have good gi tho

[night yarrow]

it has a mid rtgi

probe based

[cold basin]

kk

[night yarrow]

but the rasterized gi in this game is ass

its still a big improvement lol

[cold basin]

so might not be such a game changer to have PT in that

[night yarrow]

its probably big

since its probe based and its a open world game with dynamic time of day

by good rtgi i mean a per pixel solution

which w3 doesnt have

[cold basin]

right

[rugged nest]

Holy shit a new version?

I’ll be waiting for this to drop to play the DLCs then lol

[regal hamlet]

I hope so, let's see

I'm waiting to do a new run too

Honestly I would ask 1 thing only: Reworked of human characters cause now is the only bad thing

But I don't think it would be possible

[cold basin]

hope the video wont say release in april or sumn

[rugged nest]

I’m afraid it’s probably going to be that lol

2026 I doubt it’s January

[cold basin]

https://tenor.com/view/blud-gif-2232788265298867531

[regal hamlet]

Usually 6/8 months between announcements and releases for HulkHogan

[rugged nest]

Ooff that´s tough

Might not wait for it then lol

[regal hamlet]

Let's see, maybe this time would be less, who knows

I don't understand what else he could be adding to the Reworked Project...I hope it's not some slop console announcement in conjunction with CD Project

[abstract tulip]

cheers, the game's much smoother now

[rose whale]

The bug where the music just starts and end depending on where the camera stands in cutscenes is so annoying

Is there a mod which fixes that?

[proper valve]

I'm literally playing with RT off even on a 5090 lol. Cause the implementation is so bad on this game I think the OG probelighting with a few mods looks far better than the very SELECT occasions RT looks better

[night yarrow]

idk i think the raster gi is absolutely ass

lightnings just leak everywhere

[regal hamlet]

That's the main issue and impossible not to notice it

That's why even though RT implementation is not amazing (far from it), it's way more immersive than raster

In buildings and closed areas also, with baked lights, it looks like a 10 years set back for the game presentation

The Witcher 3 lighting tech has improved in Blood & Wines only IMO

But still, I prefer the look of RT

[stark anvil]

Does the game even have GI without RT?

[night yarrow]

lightmap + ambient colors i guess

or very bad probe based gi

[stark anvil]

Googled, sounds like maybe IBL?

[night yarrow]

ibl is just probe based gi that everyone was using last gen

but apparently it was done very poorly in w3

we had quantum break in 2015, which also has some dynamic of day and the gi was far more superior there

[stark anvil]

Open world games without RT always suffer

[regal hamlet]

Quantum Break was wonderful actually, one of the most technically achieving game of that generation. Unfortunately performance were terrible!

I don't remember a game that ran so poorly that Gen

[regal hamlet]

I believe CD Project didn't wanna invest time and resources to optimize The Witcher 3 Next Gen

They could have easily introduce PT

But without a good work optimization they realized it was not Doable imo

[night yarrow]

quantum break has dynamic time of day

its just done poorly in w3

[night yarrow]

my guess is that remedy was not familiar with dx12 back then, the steam version runs better with dx11

[regal hamlet]

Oh I didn't know that

[rare scroll]

wtf why would quantum break need dynamic time of day isn't a linear game

[night yarrow]

well quantum break was in 2016

xd

[night yarrow]

it has a section that features dynamic time of day

remedy posted a doc about how they did it

https://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2015/SIGGRAPH_2015_Remedy_Notes.pdf

[regal hamlet]

I hope Remedy will succeed with Max Payne Remake and Control 2 cause I love their games

And I will never understand the reason of making Firebreak ffs

[night yarrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f9MhAW62gM 34:46

[rare scroll]

making dynamic time of day gi in 2016 just for one section

[stark anvil]

Small scale environments help a lot of memory costs

[regal hamlet]

@stark anvil what will HalkHogan announce if few hours? Any bet? 🤣

[stark anvil]

No clue beyond the obvious guess of an updated texture pack lol

[cold basin]

I don’t think so, with reflex fps cap it’s runs good now and I think it looks quite a bit better, just feels a little contrasty at times

[night yarrow]

it already existed by in 2012 far cry 3

ubisoft is just ahead of everyone since 20 years ago

games like death stranding 2 still uses similar gi solution to far cry 3

[night yarrow]

sure but the thing is w3 gi was mid even in 2015

far cry 4 was released in 2014

the gi there is just far better

[night yarrow]

ya you just need to cap the fps, running unlocked = ass frame pacing

[cold basin]

No you can’t just cap normally

Rtss cap will have shit pacing as well in that game

I specifically need to cap with reflex in display commander

Or I suppose pace native frames in sk but I don’t use that shit

Reflex cap in rtss might work too haven’t tried that

[night yarrow]

the rtss reflex cap works properly

are you using the default async mode (well yes)

async mode is not meant to be used with the old fg

and even for new fg with flip metering the input lag is still not good without pace native frames

theres no reason to use non-reflex mode in rtss because if it doesnt work it will fallback to async mode, zero reason no to use it

[cold basin]

No in Rtss I always have front edge sync

[night yarrow]

lol front edge sync always has higher latency

its the same as sk normal limiter

[cold basin]

thats fine

[night yarrow]

back edge sync is the same as nvcp limiter

and the sk low latency one

[cold basin]

yeh

i use front edge because best frametime consistency/pacing for me

dont care about a small latency penalty

[night yarrow]

best frametime graph

but not really better frametime consistency

frametime consistency is based on the game

it offers best frametime consistency when you measuring it with something like capframex

[cold basin]

well maybe i meant the wrong thing anyways its best cap in my experience, also the least erratic in the vrr info n stuff

[night yarrow]

because capframex uses an ancient metric to measure frametime

[night yarrow]

its not really how a frame is rendered though

the way vrr works is not really it syncs to your frame

[night yarrow]

its complicated to explain but

no software can really tell you which one is smoother unless there are some noticeable spikes

basically a completely flat frametime graph is a lie

[rare scroll]

what frame limiter do you usually use polly

[night yarrow]

reflex

lol

why you need others

unless its a vulkan game

[rare scroll]

even for non fg

[night yarrow]

ya

dio does the same

[cold basin]

yeah nah im not doing that

[night yarrow]

we both agree with that

[cold basin]

@fleet flume is monkebrain tho

[night yarrow]

well if you want the smoothest then traditional vsync is the way to go

nothing beats that

[stark anvil]

Reflex cap is ass

[night yarrow]

it is not

dont trust the frametime graph

its the real ass

[stark anvil]

Perceptually unsmooth

[night yarrow]

ya probably in some games

like in team ninja games

reflex just doesnt work

[fleet flume]

Why was i pinged

[stark anvil]

It’s fine enough if you’re at a high enough framerate

But at like 60? Dogshit

[night yarrow]

they are shitting on reflex limiter

[cold basin]

because i wanted to

nah jk

[night yarrow]

i dont play games at 60

[fleet flume]

Why

[night yarrow]

idk

[stark anvil]

Depending on the game, it can be perceptually smoother to run uncapped than use reflex cap lol

[night yarrow]

they want a flat frametime graph maybe

[rare scroll]

are all the reflex limiters the same like rtss, sk, display commander

[night yarrow]

buts its just a lie

[regal hamlet]

What's the MOD to improve RT in TW3? Anyone knows it?

[night yarrow]

same

but only sk supports that in vulkan

[cold basin]

its not about the frametime graph cuh

[rare scroll]

ig ill be using reflex then, i have been using rtss async for the longest time

[night yarrow]

if it doesnt work it will fallback to async

[night yarrow]

well not just the reflex one, almost all their limiters are the same

no special sauce here

rtss front edge sync = sk normal = DC normal

rtss back edge sync = sk low latency = nvcp

[cold basin]

dc has no normal

[night yarrow]

async is very similar to back edge sync

[night yarrow]

it has

[night yarrow]

the second one is normal

[cold basin]

yeah not called that though

[rare scroll]

this i think
https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/8865

[regal hamlet]

Does it tank performance? Is it compatible with HD Reworked and Brothers in Arms?

[night yarrow]

but sk's reflex limiter in vulkan is quite useful, its the only way to play doom tda with fg

[rare scroll]

yeah there is some performance, depends on your hardware i think, the author says 7-14 fps, and no it should be compatible with most mods that dont change RT

but worth it tbh specially if you want to use RT shadows

[regal hamlet]

Great, thanks

@rare scroll do you know any mod for NPC faces? Something reliable?

[rare scroll]

you mean for LODs?

[regal hamlet]

Yes

[cold basin]

My issue with reflex is that it is a lot more erratic, will often hit the max 164.9hz on my screen even with a 144fps cap. With front edge i can go higher fps technically because its a lot less likely to hit the max hz which i dont want to happen because I use Gsync+Vsync so hitting max hz has big latency penalty

[night yarrow]

do you have vysnc off

[cold basin]

Read again

[night yarrow]

when combined with a limiter

Vsync does not have noticeable latency

its hard to explain with some graphs

[cold basin]

If you stay in the vrr window yeah

[night yarrow]

no

[cold basin]

If you don’t aka hitting max hz you do afaik

[night yarrow]

you will always exceed that window

[cold basin]

[night yarrow]

vsync is the only way to keep your fps under refresh rate

its the same as what said earlier

the frame limiter does not actually limit the frame itself

in horizon forbidden west a limiter without vysnc near your refresh rate will give you tearing and judder all the time

even with something like 110fps on a 120hz screen

[cold basin]

Also what about the worse 1% and 0.1 lows with reflex

[night yarrow]

thats true

because of the way it works

like i said before

traditional vsync is unbeatable

in terms of frame pacing

theres definitely a price you need to pay

[cold basin]

Yeah traditional has too much latency

Im quite happy with Gsync + Vsync + limiter

[night yarrow]

but again those measurement are not really measing the frame itself

eg. limiting the frame with back edge sync

then you measure it will capframex

judders everywhere

[cold basin]

But I personally just prefer front edge, iunno feels best to me except slightly higher latency which is small enough for me to not care

[night yarrow]

but rtss frametime graph is a flat line

and both of them are lies

[cold basin]

I don’t care too much about the graph like I said

[night yarrow]

you can measure that if the game support reflex

with frameviewer

[cold basin]

Can measure what sorry?

[night yarrow]

latency from front edge sync

its 10ms at 60fps iirc

[cold basin]

NVIDIA overlay does that too no

[night yarrow]

compared to back edge sync

[cold basin]

With reflex games

[night yarrow]

compared to reflex limiter its probably 15-20ms at 60 fps

[cold basin]

Which is fine

Witcher fg is big diff

[night yarrow]

but you dont really get more benefit with front edge sync imo

[cold basin]

40ms reflex 80ms normal cap

[night yarrow]

ya

[cold basin]

[night yarrow]

old fg

[cold basin]

Yeh

[night yarrow]

they all like that

normal cap just doesnt work

with flip metering its better but still like double

[night yarrow]

this is totally fine though

[rare scroll]

i remember it being an .ini tweak that fixes it but i forgot what it was, you could try this and see if one of the options do something about it

https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/2658

[night yarrow]

its not a reliable way to measure framepacing with gysnc monitoring

[night yarrow]

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off”: The tearing inside the G-SYNC range with V-SYNC “Off” is caused by sudden frametime variances output by the system, which will vary in severity and frequency depending on both the efficiency of the given game engine, and the system’s ability (or inability) to deliver consistent frametimes.

this 165hz happened because of this, it can still happen with the normal limiter

`This is how G-SYNC was originally intended to function. Unlike G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off,” G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” allows the G-SYNC module to compensate for sudden frametime variances by adhering to the scanout, which ensures the affected frame scan will complete in the current scanout before the next frame scan and scanout begin. This eliminates tearing within the G-SYNC range, in spite of the frametime variances encountered.

Frametime compensation with V-SYNC “On” is performed during the vertical blanking interval (the span between the previous and next frame scan), and, as such, does not delay single frame delivery within the G-SYNC range and is recommended for a tear-free experience (see G-SYNC 101: Optimal Settings & Conclusion).`

[cold basin]

"G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” allows the G-SYNC module to compensate for sudden frametime variances"

what gsync module bro

[night yarrow]

it was an old article when only hardware gsync existed

[cold basin]

[night yarrow]

but everything in that except the fullscreen part is still legit

the fullscreen part is nonsense now lol

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

well theres another part thats outdated

the in game limiters in most games are ass

dont use them

[stark anvil]

Usually about as bad as the reflex limiter

Some games use the reflex limiter too

[cold basin]

Im happy with what I’m doing, Gsync + Vsync and then Rtss front edge globally, then some edge cases like Witcher I’ll use reflex if needed

[night yarrow]

front edge in fg games is really bad

[cold basin]

FG is really bad*

[stark anvil]

Yeah always use reflex limiter with framegen lol.

[rugged nest]

Just got back in the game and since there´s been a lot of updates. I assume purist preset is matching sdr and recommended is Jon´s preferred settings, right?

Also I just enabled framegen without reflex shenanigans and latency was really good at 120fps

[night yarrow]

you can not enable fg without reflex

if you dont cap the fps the latency is good but the frame pacing isnt (in this game because it uses an ancient streamline)

[rugged nest]

Mmmm I only tried for like 5 mins but seemed smooth

Im going to limit to 120/115fps with reflex in RTSS anyway tho

[night yarrow]

i just remember that you can limit the fps with opticaler as well

it even supports vysnc for fg games

[rugged nest]

Nah I dont use optiscaler

[night yarrow]

i use it in almost every game

the driver preset override is dogshit

[rugged nest]

I just have GSYNC + Vsync and then I limit a bit under what I reach in RTSS. That should be good

In Witcher 3 is around 105-120 So I´ll framecap around there

[rugged nest]

I prefer to install as few addons as possible in each game

Less friction/config when starting a game

Reno if there is one cause its a must, framecap if needed and play time

[night yarrow]

i pack opticaler + reshade + display command in the same folder

everytime i start a new game i just drop them

[rugged nest]

But optiscaler sometimes has compatibility issues in some games for example afaik

And for presets I use DLSS swapper since I always update dlls anyway, it can also control presets

[night yarrow]

opticaler can do it realtime

so you can see the difference

probably doesnt really matter though

i think you can just force preset e globally though

transformer sr is just dogshit

[cold basin]

my personal settings so far for witcher

if anyone cares

[night yarrow]

game brightness 500

or busted

[cold basin]

plasma settings

@stark anvil why do you run 100% blowout restoration in all presets? looks quite oof in some cases

these candles for example at 100% are super orange

[night yarrow]

because he is using a per channel tonemapper that blows out highlights

[cold basin]

ok but these clearly arent blown out with termite spleen

[stark anvil]

It’s not the same blowout restoration as UE for instance.

[cold basin]

at 50% these look more like candles

[night yarrow]

Musa suggested blowout + max channel

for hermite spline

[night yarrow]

hermite spline is just bt2390 eetf in liliums shader

[night yarrow]

hdr boost slider also adds more saturation to highlights

idk i think both presets have their own drawbacks

[cold basin]

its not the hdr boost thing

looks same at 0

[night yarrow]

increase hue correction

[cold basin]

those specific candles are cooked

nop

only fixable with less blowout restoration

[night yarrow]

ya

ive found something more broken

20:00 in toussaint

[stark anvil]

Dropping blowout restoration can result in more of a white tone than plain SDR as well.

[night yarrow]

you get pinkish clouds

[night yarrow]

can you try blowout + max channel as musa suggested

[cold basin]

hm i dont know how else to fix those candles then, they look quite bad

[stark anvil]

When I’ve got time to mod again, sure

[night yarrow]

purist preset time

[stark anvil]

I think those candles looks fine tbh

[cold basin]

bro

[night yarrow]

he has a g5

[cold basin]

its broken across the board

all presets

[night yarrow]

it probably looks quite different on his display

[stark anvil]

Ah maybe yeah

[cold basin]

it does yeah.. even just looking at the screenshots on my phone isnt quite the same

[night yarrow]

the image you see is probably clipped to shit

[cold basin]

maybe i can try to take a pic with phone

[night yarrow]

try increasing blowout maybe

if its the issue from higher brightness

[cold basin]

sadly doesnt work until blowout is so high that the entire image gets affected

[night yarrow]

increase saturation to compensate

musa suggested me doing so in jedi survivor

(but it still looks bad

[stark anvil]

Just to figure that out, see how it looks with 1000 peak

[cold basin]

It’s not a good image but I think you can tell

[night yarrow]

we should fund jon an hx3110

[cold basin]

thats at 100% restoration

[night yarrow]

hdr screenshot

[cold basin]

i have put those above

I think this screenshot shows it a bit better even on my phone

[night yarrow]

thats 2200nits bro

post a 1000nits one

[night yarrow]

looks too yellow

[cold basin]

its completely whack

[night yarrow]

this doesnt look right either though

[cold basin]

its basically full yellow and red

[night yarrow]

too much blowout there

[cold basin]

yeah have to go quite low for it to look good

bro i fucking hate nvidia

just let me record

[stark anvil]

Try lowering highlight sat instead maybe?

[night yarrow]

i uninstalled nvidia app

its a bloatware

[cold basin]

similar to lessening blowout restoration but worse

[stark anvil]

Alright. Lower blowout restoration will turn the sun pure white all the time iirc

[cold basin]

sooo we're cooked

[stark anvil]

Probably just needs a new texture for HDR being real.

In SDR they were content with something that barely looked like fire at all.

[night yarrow]

its worse than old games with dxvk for some reason

filmic tonemapper ruined the game maybe

everything was built with broken colors in mind

[stark anvil]

I could try adding a luminance tonemapper and maybe playing with blowout restoration would make more sense.

But I just got a new puppy and basically all my free time is going to that lmao

[cold basin]

Uhh 100 restoration here looks atrocious with the sun actually

hdr screenshot but 2440 nit

[stark anvil]

This has to be a high peak brightness issue

[cold basin]

hmm nah at 800 its whack too

[stark anvil]

Might be hue correction here

[cold basin]

at 88% the yellow blow is gone

xd

[cold basin]

oh yeah for the sun it seems to be yeah

at 100 hue correction it fully yellow disk

[stark anvil]

Ictcp may not have the issue

[cold basin]

0 hue correction still has the issue though

[stark anvil]

Oh

[regal hamlet]

@stark anvil does RENODX conflict with a MOD that improves RT shadows and reflections?

[cold basin]

shouldnt?

[stark anvil]

No

[stark anvil]

Does saturation correction change anything here?

I didn’t do a ton of testing with hermite spline, now I’m wondering if that could be an issue.

[cold basin]

i get what youre saying witht he white blob though

[stark anvil]

Could try this build

Wait that looks fine now. Was it highlights?

[cold basin]

might depend on time of day or sumn

this is a bit later now

and the candles look still cooked tho so yeah

xd

[stark anvil]

The game being super saturated in general doesn’t do a lot of favors.

[cold basin]

yeah..

im having a hard time tweaking it as you can tell

[stark anvil]

Oh also this is the last build I posted, though idk if it’s worth using over the one I have linked as the latest release. Highlights and shadows v3 are a bit weird imo.

[rugged nest]

Im also using a G5 so lemme know your conclusions. I also felt something was off when I tried the latest version earlier

I was using the latest version that Jon just quoted above

[cold basin]

this is what ive come up with so far... im using a bit more hue correction and dropped blowout restoration to 40

lemme know what you think

-# if you have time to test rn

the sun isnt as nicely saturated ofc but i think its ok

recommend preset / mine

[clever cape]

Hi, pretty late to the party here, but when using display commander, my reflex option specifies "non-VRR". You're screenshot shows the opposite. I am confused. Would someone know why it does that ?

[cold basin]

well do you use gsync?

or freesync

[clever cape]

Well Yes !

Hence my confusion 😅 ...

[cold basin]

do you use an older build maybe?

[clever cape]

let me check😂

[cold basin]

this is how my dc looks

[clever cape]

how I have an idea.

I'm using renodx reshade fork

Could that be the pb ?

[cold basin]

perhaps

i dont use that

6.6.2

[clever cape]

lets check that out !

[cold basin]

few mins later rec/mine

(Might look kinda bad for anyone looking on sub 2000nit screen)

[rugged nest]

I do, imma see

[cold basin]

hope you like

[rugged nest]

Oh hell yeah

The sun at least looks like a sun

Not an orange

Fire looks much much better too

Like actual fire basically

Im not using the exposure increase tho since its already blinding at 1.00

[cold basin]

That’s fair yeah, it was my attempt at helping with the sometime a bit too contrasty look

I was also considering messing with the shadows setting instead

[rugged nest]

Purist vs your preset (tonemapped to sdr but you can still see)

Dunno if the sun being so white fits with the orangeish sky too much tho

Fire looks perfect tho look at that small brassier on the right of geralt in the bg

First one does not look like fire at all

[cold basin]

glad you like it

i lowered hdr boost just slightly to 23, thats the only other change ive done so far

[rugged nest]

Will try it

[regal hamlet]

https://youtu.be/JOLUthOwPRw?si=pilFKJefm1Fm0pu_

He basically re-made the whole game textures

[rugged nest]

Cant Watch now. Is it a substantial upgrade?

[split wigeon]

Holy moly !

No way my puny 3080 will be able to fit these in 10gigs

[earnest rain]

again? this guy can't be stopped

get him on monster hunter wilds asap

[cold basin]

Hmm wouldve been nice to see comparison with his previous textures instead of basegame

[rugged nest]

Yeah I thought the same

Gotta decide if I’m waiting months to play the expansions or not xD

[stark anvil]

I mean, technically…

Assuming it was the next gen patch

[earnest rain]

yeah does the base game have his patch included

[cold basin]

@rugged nest

Vanilla | My Setup | Recommended | Purist

I did some slight further tweaking, the 66 shadows might seem much but you'll see it barely changes the image.

i think im happy with this for now, hopefully wont run into issues in other areas

(Testing in some interiors i think shadows 60 is better) xd

Rec | Mine

[stark anvil]

I’m still confused why the sun is doing that

“Works on my machine” etc etc

I had weird issues like that when blowout was applying a little bit when set to 0

But that never made it into a build I posted with 2.0+ I don’t think.

[cold basin]

[night yarrow]

so you have default black level on your g5

[cold basin]

hm?

[rugged nest]

He’s probably asking if you touched the black level in the G5. Cause at 165hz it has black crush

[cold basin]

yeah i fixed that

[rugged nest]

And you need to boost shadows to 52 and near black detail to +1

[rugged nest]

I’ll check it when I’m on the PC. Looks promising!

[cold basin]

shadows 52 in witcher or ?

[rugged nest]

Nono in the G5

[cold basin]

ah yeah i do it diff

[rugged nest]

Oh? How if I may ask?

[rugged nest]

Ohhhh gotcha

[cold basin]

and near black detail +1 now

i had it 0 before

with 1 i dont need to touch shadows in witcher i think

have it back to 50 now and seems good

[rugged nest]

You use game optimizer then I assume (the picture mode)

[cold basin]

filmmaker i use

[rugged nest]

Nice! Then you probably had the wrong settings there

[rugged nest]

Oh I thought that was greyed out in FMM, my bad

[cold basin]

ah ffs

cant read name of mode

[rugged nest]

I trust you hahahahahsh

[cold basin]

[rugged nest]

Then yeah black level 52 and near black 1 is perfect if u wanna try it

[cold basin]

well near black at 0 wasnt wrong in my eyes but helps ofc

[rugged nest]

It’s helpful to use a pattern to calibrate

A good one too. I was using one that was poorly made and Polly sent me one that was properly made

[cold basin]

i used a youtube vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAhxR-gMU_U

the one that gets sent here all the time

[cold basin]

i think im done tweaking now @rugged nest

Rec | My version

Hope you like what i cooked up, been testing in a few location and different fire types etc

only thing im a bit unsure about is bloom, outside i liked somewhere around 60 more, but inside darker buildings with a bunch of candles n stuff i like it better at about 33 .. hard to say

[abstract tulip]

[cold basin]

dont think thats fixable xd

[night yarrow]

default bloom

[rugged nest]

Yeah at least with sliders

Dunno if Jon could change some inner workings to fix it completely but probably no since I already reported this to him months ago

[unreal badge]

been playing a bit, like the settings (bloom 33), appreciate sharing.

[cold basin]

[stark anvil]

Lower bloom higher sunshafts works pretty well.

[stark anvil]

But yeah this is a vanilla bug

I feel like it should be fixable in the shader, just haven’t tried yet

[cold basin]

this looks so good

[cold basin]

im actually considering turning sunshafts off completely with bloom at 33 but im afraid that i might ruin other areas that benefit from it

[stark anvil]

@cold basin completely untested but here's a build with a by luminance tonemapping option if you'd like to experiment with it and blowout restoration

[cold basin]

oh cool, ill test in a bit

[cold basin]

dont mind me just backing up my current settings here in case they get lost from using the experimental addon

[cold basin]

Hm noo, looks worse than by channel, with rec and purist presets candles look even more fucked, with mine i have to lower blowout restoration from 35 to 15-20 for candles to look correct, sun looks worse in that case tho so i prefer by channel

[stark anvil]

Yeah defaults will be horrible with it

Would need lower blowout restoration like you say

Maybe some regular blowout too. Maybe try something like 70 blowout restoration, 40 blowout

[cold basin]

[cold basin]

@stark anvil couldnt really get anything better with by luminance

still prefer per channel

ended up refining my preset further tho xd, maybe you can also try that Jon, lemme know what you think.

using ictcp now for hue

i think i like that more, even though the diff is slight

i tuned this so it would look closer too vanilla/off and the purist preset. To me the recommended settings look very bad, way too pink, fire looks very wrong

i have not been in toussaint though, i dont have a save game for that

i cannot say whether this looks good there

[stark anvil]

Recommended looks correct to me for the most part (not vanilla though).

[cold basin]

[stark anvil]

maybe a screen thing, idk

but I've also looked at this on like 5 different HDR screens lol

fire on recommended looks close to just like...sitting in front of a fire

[cold basin]

Have you tried copying my setup and would you say that looks wrong then?

[stark anvil]

not yet nno

in the screenshots I think there's too much blowout. It looks good, just not necessarily more like fire

[cold basin]

Yeah doesn’t help that many of my screenshots are 2440 nits

On my tv switching between my settings, recommended and purist is quite a big diff especially with fire/candles/torches n stuff

Sadly NVIDIA can’t fucking record my game properly

Always washed out for some reason

either that or nvidia says game not supported

[stark anvil]

I really want to experiment with different blowout code, see if I can figure out something that I think can actually replace per channel tonemapping, cause it's not ideal.

[cold basin]

bro looks like a tomato on the right

[stark anvil]

fire doesn't give off pure white light...

[cold basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ieNfIk3Ruo

looking at this i feel mine is much closer to that

[stark anvil]

It kinda depends and recordings aren't always super accurate. I coincidentally was staring at a fire last night though lol

[cold basin]

hehe

boutta put a candle on my desk and tweak that way

but yeah i look at fire regularly too in the colder times, we have a fireplace in the house

[stark anvil]

btw, I also think this lighting mod is worth trying out https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/7821

[cold basin]

I think with ictcp 40 hue correction the recommended preset looks alot better

or 40 darktable

[cold basin]

i see, im playing fully vanilla rn

do you use any other mods?

[stark anvil]

a few but with vanilla art direction. Not entirely sure if I'm sold on that weather mod, but it's at least mostly faithful to its name.

it actually fixes some things through art changes that my tonemapping changes already kinda fix

[cold basin]

ill try that vanilla lighting mod i suppose

[stark anvil]

easy to turn off and on at least

in a mod manager lol

[cold basin]

i dont have a mod manager setup for this rn

[stark anvil]

I'm a sicko that just uses vortex

pretty sure most will say not to and to use witcher mod manager

[cold basin]

as im a passionate skyrim modder, i despise vortex

i think MO2 might work for the witcher

gotta check

[quiet sandal]

Terrible

ABYSMAL

ASS

Manualcels scare me though

Every time in cyberbunk

'This mod messed up my load order and broke my game and ruined my marriage'

Are you using MO2? no, manual

Like clockwork

[rose whale]

You are missing a few nits

[stark anvil]

vortex has always just worked for me. Usually has all the tools needed, just maybe a bit of a pain to use if you don't know about them

I have no doubt that bespoke mod managers are better, but I just don't want a bunch of mod managers installed if vortex can do the job

[cold basin]

wym xd

[rose whale]

500 nits game brightness

[rose whale]

I noticed this too on my G5

[cold basin]

shits incredibly hard to balance

been at this for like 20 hours now

[stark anvil]

referencing SDR will show you that they definitely did not achieve it there either lol

[cold basin]

its giga annoying as well because all fire sources look diff and even change the look depending on time of day or what color grade the region/current weather seems to have

dunno man i give up

[cold basin]

what looks better

[stark anvil]

logs better on right, flames better on left

[cold basin]

flames too yellow on the right or

[stark anvil]

yeah

maybe I should make hue correction more of a hue shift instead

I posted a build before with a hue shift slider if you want to try it

I got rid of it cause it was basically the same as hue correction

but maybe for this instance it works

[cold basin]

but yeah id say the logs on the left there look super pink, and it gets kinda amplified at 2400 nits ngl

thats my issue that i have the entire time with the rec preset

[stark anvil]

there's also a lot of stuff that shifts that doesn't look good shifted 🤷

[cold basin]

we're cooked

[stark anvil]

I'll see what I can do. Maybe if I don't try to emulate SDR I can figure something out

RTGI is also a mess with hues in this btw

[stark anvil]

sat correction helps a lot there but yeah

[cold basin]

any better

[stark anvil]

sure does look like uncharted2 tonemapping

[cold basin]

is termite spleen close to that?

[stark anvil]

no it's just a display mapper. I blend their tonemapping (uncharted2) with the untonemapped color and display map it later

termite spleen is just highlight rolloff

sat correction 0 will give you just the raw vanilla tonemap colors for SDR range

raising sat correction uses a luminance/per channel blend

[cold basin]

ah oge

lemme show some more pics

what looks best, i personally think 2nd pic too pink in the face, first one too white

[tribal sable]

2 or 3

overall 2 i think

2 might be too saturated to the point of losing detail in his shirt

the shoulder seam

[cold basin]

Trying to make something in between 2 and 3 right now

much more subtle change

pretty much just hue

[rugged nest]

Cant see any differences here

[cold basin]

look at his skin tone on his forehead and face

[rugged nest]

It looks almost identical, cant really tell a difference

[cold basin]

yuh

[cold basin]

yeah i dont know anymore, i cant get something that looks good across the board

shits driving me nuts

[tribal sable]

On my phone I can see the difference in the shoulder seam

[stark anvil]

@cold basin another test build
added another hue shift slider and hardcoded blowout restoration to use ictcp since it seems like a clear winner for that slider. Maybe this will help you get what you're looking for.

[heady dune]

I'm still using 2 or 3 versions older.

[cold basin]

[rose whale]

I am using the one on nexus because of that

Also shadows looked off to me with the latest

[rose whale]

Why does vanilla looks so different here? Did you disable the volumetric effect in the others or something? Is that the flare effect?

[cold basin]

No, vanilla has onbnoxius bloom / Glare that Jon tried to tame as far as I understand

[stark anvil]

any comparisons with vanilla (for the purposes of finding tonemapping settings) should be done with bloom off/set to 0

you will go in circles trying to fine tune things around bloom/sunrays

all you need to know is that bloom since adding HDR bloom or removing the option will take on the color of the light instead of a clipped color like it used to. It will be directly influenced by scene grading sliders, but will only be adjusted in post by color grading sliders.

[cold basin]

@stark anvil would you say its counter productive to do a mix of hue correction and shift in the test build?

[stark anvil]

yes

[cold basin]

because it looks like the affect the image diff

hue correction seems like it effect more of the entire image

[stark anvil]

hue shift should be basically the same as correction except only applying to above SDR range

[cold basin]

while shift i mainly see diff in highlights

ok so yeah that tracks with my observations then

[stark anvil]

you could combine the two without an issue, but I doubt you see much difference unless shift is higher than correction

and being real I don't want to have both sliders in an actual release, it's confusing and unnecessary I feel

[cold basin]

yeah for sure

[cold basin]

in these the candles look atleast correct

[stark anvil]

maybe termite spleen is messing things up 🤷

[cold basin]

my candles are like pink red orange ish

[stark anvil]

wouldn't hurt to check one of the builds with reinhard piecewise

[cold basin]

nothing pinned here ahhh

do you have the latest reinhard one lying around by chance

[stark anvil]

I can just throw in an option

[cold basin]

or that

goat

[cold basin]

thankyouuu

At this point I think the candle flame texture itself is just cooked

Like is it supposed to be just this yellow in the middle and red around it

its so hard to capture

[stark anvil]

pretty sure yeah

the luminance tonemap will be the true color

reinhard manipulates the image sooner (and is more dim), so I thought there was a chance it might help with the flames

bit of a stretch though, I think you're just far more bothered by this than me at this point and it's not a display thing so much

[cold basin]

something like this is what a candle looks like to my eyes

not this

[stark anvil]

yeah candles don't look quite right

need to see a heatmap view to see if the brightness is even capable of being blown out to look right

[cold basin]

like this?

[stark anvil]

set it to 10k peak

[cold basin]

at 2400 nits

[cold basin]

the cutoff point?

or game

[stark anvil]

peak

in renodx lol

[cold basin]

slider only goes to 4

k

[stark anvil]

oh, cutoff point as well

[stark anvil]

ctrl click and type

[stark anvil]

okay so something can be done about it

does applying a little bit of blowout fix it?

oh, can you also see what it looks like with LUT grade set to 0?

[cold basin]

lut grade has like no impact on the candle flame

[stark anvil]

okay so it shouldn't be getting griefed by tonemapmaxcll then

[cold basin]

blowout doesnt really help under like 20+

looks pretty much the same as just lowering blowout restoration

[stark anvil]

how does blowout restoration at like 75 with hue shift at something like 10 look?

[cold basin]

left is normal rec preset with termite, right is recommended reinhard with blowoutres 75 and 10 shift

[stark anvil]

honestly confused why those candles don't blowout more

[cold basin]

any settings that make the candles bearable makes the rest look weird

thats when the torchlight on your face becomes white n shid like we talked about yesterday

[stark anvil]

I could just boost the candles if I find the shader

[cold basin]

cant seem to find a mod that edits the candle flames either

only mods for the candle texture itself kek

[stark anvil]

I also should try to find the skybox so I can boost that, since the rest of the scene doesn't need it as much

[cold basin]

I find that the hdr boost thing makes the candles a bit worse too

I assume because it seems to increase highlight saturation

[stark anvil]

makes sense, it's a per channel adjustment

[night yarrow]

ya i dont like the hdr boost either

i just use highlights slider instead

[cold basin]

can you share a pic of what settings you are currently using?

im losing my mind over here, im not even sure what looks right at this point

[night yarrow]

defaults until jon updates

i had also been messing with it

pinky clouds drove me crazy

[cold basin]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-sad-gif-11498011059624046168

[cold basin]

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