Speedster and REVERT THE SHOTGUN NERF

[lethal verge]

honestly speedster is a bit bad for a legendary joker, i suggest that the damage scales with the velocity that your are moving at rewarding well placed shots when you are moving at mach 3

also the shotgun nerf is scandalous 4 empty rounds to give you 1 extra id get if it was like 2 or even 3 but 4 kills the entire build.

[halcyon mauve]

ok so uh

have you played the game

perchance

not trying to be rude but

speedster is one of the best jokers in the game

and the shotgun is still very good now

overblast was nutty before and needed nerfed, now its in a respectable spot

still the best build for the shotgun and a top 3 primary

[lethal verge]

i still think speedster should be velocity based not just flat stat based

speedster is good if you stack speed upgrades and sure it works well if you build solely around it but it would be better if it was based on your velocity instead of just your speed stat

just a lot more rewarding when you somehow manage to hit a shot going at ungodly speeds and get a damage boost from that

and yeh shotgun was op i agree

am crap at math

but the final shell on the build i was running had a chance to to do 500 or so damage

i agreed thats op

now it barely reaches 114

its still good

[quaint kite]

I pass from 550 to 200 in my build

huge nerf

[lethal verge]

ikkk

if they made it every 2 or 3 shells it would be a lot more balanced

[tawny gazelle]

should have just buffed everything else instead to bring it in line with overblast

[quaint kite]

Imo 2 empty rounds is fair

[lethal verge]

yeh that would be great

[tawny gazelle]

and then made like way harder difficulties

[lethal verge]

like even with the broken shotgun nightmare was still difficult af

[tawny gazelle]

games like this are fun because u can build ridiculous shit

buff more stuff so we can build more ridiculous shit

not nerf it

[lethal verge]

i made a build with like 5% gravity

most fun build i made

super annoying tho

3 moon gravity plus dwarf makes it so hard to pick up anything

but its fun because it was broken

[quaint plank]

Nightmare is generally considered easy

I actually like that speedster goes off base speed :>

[lethal verge]

untill you get swarmed by snipers with a shotgun

[quaint plank]

And yeah, overblast was filthy please don't revert

[tawny gazelle]

yeah but there needs to be difficulties that require co-ordination to deal with this

[lethal verge]

idm it but it only acts like an legendary when you build around it

[quaint plank]

That doesn't happen if you play right

[tawny gazelle]

i was okay with the multiple snipers

honestly a skill issue tbh

[quaint plank]

Not really, speed is pretty much default anyway

I don't know anyone that doesn't take disgrace, and that's plenty damage

[lethal verge]

i mean i like zoomming around as fast as possible am not a great at the game so yah it is a skill issue

[quaint plank]

Fair :> maybe a second joker?

Velocity based and base based

[lethal verge]

but if you are zooming at top speed with a shotgun and revolver agaisnt 5 snipers that dont break tracking across the map

[quaint kite]

buff the others weapons instead of nerf that ruin the fun

[lethal verge]

its a bit ass

[lethal verge]

yah thats the best take i would say

[quaint kite]

In my case I just leveled the shotgun to prestige 2 now I have other weapons lvl 1 its sad

[lethal verge]

also i should probably report a bug but i had 2 games where snipers hit me through the mountain

but overblast plus machingun was fun while it lasted

[rugged forge]

i dissagree

[crimson oasis]

uhm

People could reach 1k dmg per shot

Over last needed the nerf

[rugged forge]

i have leveled the rifle the sniper and felt mandatory to play with shotgun

[iron needle]

i dunno overblast is definitely in line now, any revert warrants a buff to other weapons

it only climbs to about 200-ish

[crimson oasis]

yeah because it did SO much damage

[crimson oasis]

which is still
High 😭😭 so it’s not straight ass

[iron needle]

which is where every other weapon hits just about

[rugged forge]

i say nerf is good

[lethal verge]

it did but to this degree is a bit much its a 500% nerf from what i tested

[iron needle]

yeah it's not just a problem solver so imo it's fair

[crimson oasis]

YEHA it was a way bigger nerf than I thought

[iron needle]

you could literally take out deadeyes with max pellets instantly

[crimson oasis]

Idk I used shotgun after it felt good still

then I went back to sniper so

[iron needle]

it's still one of the best weapons fs

[crimson oasis]

In nightmare it’s make it wayy to easy itd get boring

[iron needle]

3 pellets per could be fine, but any less is gonna make it too crazy again

[quaint plank]

500%, but it's still outputting significantly more damage than any other weapon joker in the game xd

Like

[iron needle]

and the other weapons need some love too

[crimson oasis]

fax

[lethal verge]

whats what am saying

[rugged forge]

u have to compare the shotgun with the minigun or the rifle. if u still play shotgun nerf its ok, you are just affected

[crimson oasis]

Minigun is very good I think

I dunno I don’t use it

[quaint plank]

How can you ever say that isn't fair

[lethal verge]

leverage and minigun have way more damage totential

[quaint plank]

Bud

[crimson oasis]

it’s a big number

But shotgun still does a lot of damage

😭😭😭

[quaint plank]

Sidegrades my friend, everything has a purpose

[lethal verge]

am not saying it doesnt

[rugged forge]

the dps on the leverage... dnt think so. on the minigun not sure

[lethal verge]

am just saying the nerf ishould be 3 not 4

[crimson oasis]

Minigun I think does

[quaint plank]

For real, like, it's not even true that they have more potential

[lethal verge]

the new buffs to leverage it does

[quaint plank]

Okay, but that's the entire point

You lose aim, ease of use, burst damage, ammo

[rugged forge]

and shotgun is op from the start. seems like we dont remember that u cant kill snipers with shotguns

[quaint plank]

For damage at closest range

[quaint plank]

And god forbid that my weapon isn't the strongest

[rugged forge]

no nerf but 10m range?

next nerf shall be the sniper

[lethal verge]

i tried all the weapons

[crimson oasis]

I refuse

[lethal verge]

but the best weapon for a hypermanuvoribilty build is the shotgun

[rugged forge]

sniper its op cause of the way npcs walk

[crimson oasis]

make the npc swerve

[rugged forge]

i do some 30 kills per shot

[crimson oasis]

ya

[rugged forge]

agree

[lethal verge]

the point of games like this with rougelike aspects is that you can eventually get to a broken state thats the fun in rougelikes

[quaint plank]

You're making my point for me

[quaint plank]

This game, is NOT a roguelike ahahaha, the existence of picking up jokers is a tiny part of its overall system

[rugged forge]

u as a developer have to protect user from the user making other choices appealing helping replayability

[quaint plank]

This, is incredibly wise

Players very often don't understand what they want

[lethal verge]

the shotgun nerf should be every 2-3 shells, up the level you unlock it, and make it so prestiegeing resets the slots you allocate

[rugged forge]

u wont play the first rifle ever if you came from the op shotgun

[lethal verge]

but i do

[lethal verge]

.

[quaint plank]

This is wild, has to be ragebait

[lethal verge]

i mean in all games presteiging resets your porgress on x thing and resets you

make it so you unlock overblast at lets say levl 80 shotgun

so you have 20levs to use it before you can perstige it

[iron needle]

sonion

prestige doesn't reset anything

[crimson oasis]

it could be an ability u activate and then it goes on a cooldown..

[lethal verge]

or that

[crimson oasis]

It’s hella op but like

[lethal verge]

am not saying it does

[crimson oasis]

Lasts for 3 seconds then idk 10 second cooldown

[lethal verge]

am saying it should

or it only activates every other shot

[iron needle]

awful idea to balance a single weapon to be overpowered again

[lethal verge]

or full reload

there are just better ways to nerf it rather than just kill it with a 500% damage nerf

[rugged forge]

still think that shotguns are for 10m max distance from the objective wich ours is much better and shotgun is still top 3 weapons

[lethal verge]

10m would make it unsuable

[iron needle]

which is why this is simply the best compromise

[quaint kite]

you crazy my friend

[iron needle]

limiting the range would ruin rush blast anyway

it's fine how it is

[lethal verge]

its better rn than 10m

[rugged forge]

im not asking abount a 10m nerf. im just saying that is in an ok state

[iron needle]

3 shells per pellet at most, it does not need more than that

it's fine at 4, still some of the highest dps

with minimal effort

[rugged forge]

ty

[iron needle]

just poke the barrel in the enemy's face

[lethal verge]

anyther way to nerf overblast is that when you equip it, its turns the shotgun into magzine fed

[iron needle]

like yeah it's not 600 per shell anymore, i don't think it should have been anyway

[lethal verge]

so you cant just spam reload and pop 500 damage

[iron needle]

maybe a balancing point could be to lower the damage of the additional shells

keeping the coverage but lowering the output

[lethal verge]

that would be a great change in my op

[quaint plank]

Cool idea, but this would still be a massive buff because of the incredible reload speed

[lethal verge]

make the magzine reload slow

and if you want to make it fatser youd have to sacrafice 3 joker slots for the 50% faster reload

[rugged forge]

i think the reload its a nice gunplay mechanic, sacrifice it cause you are feeling nerfed with one of the top 3 dps weapons...

[crimson oasis]

I’ve seen it go
Up to 1 thousand

[rugged forge]

they also give exp x2. now its easier to try other weapons

[crimson oasis]

Crazzzy fun

[iron needle]

absurd

[quaint kite]

stop nerf and up other weapons so everybody is fine

[lethal verge]

anyway am just saying the overbalst nerf was a bit of a lazy (respectfully) patch, changing it like with the magazine thing would be fun, or like bazou said just buff the other weapons

[rugged forge]

dont change my build, change the other 15. You guys need to play some Path of Exiles

[quaint kite]

They used to nerf from 1 to 2 and if they see its still "broken" go for 3 etc ... they nerf from 1 to 4 instantly

[lethal verge]

i dont have one build i played all of them

the most fun is zooming around at mach 1 and a shotgun will at lest let me hit something rather than miss half the mag

it did need a nerf but just straight going for the gut punch is wild

[quaint kite]

btw I didnt get any souls back if they nerf It they need to refund

[lethal verge]

this would make sense

insteed of just playing with the stats of it

[quaint kite]

that's how you balance

[lethal verge]

make it a fun change

ex. make it so you cant reload one shell at a time

have to reload the whole mag

so now you have to decide do i want my max mag to be 30 rounds and my dps is huge but i have to spend a year reloading

or do less dps

but be more constant

[atomic garnet]

Or just make it as it was but reduce magsize by 50% after all mods and force full reloads

[lethal verge]

even that would be better

[atomic garnet]

Like i’d rather see some more op uniques with heavy tradeoffs

[rugged forge]

you guys are wild u want to destroy the gunplay cause you feel nerfed

[atomic garnet]

For all weapons instad of them just being statsticks

[lethal verge]

like i feel qunique jokers should define a entire playstyle change the way you play if you want to run it

[quaint kite]

this is not a feel this is a fact

[lethal verge]

howwww

[rugged forge]

destroying the reload mechanic

[lethal verge]

explain how you reached that conclusion

[rugged forge]

wich is a beautiful mechanic

[lethal verge]

howw does changing the way one gun reloads

[rugged forge]

that adds to the gunplay

[lethal verge]

you wanted the chotgun to have a max range of 10m

that would just not work

[rugged forge]

ur asking it to do it don act like you dnt know why

[lethal verge]

in anything

[rugged forge]

no i didnt

[lethal verge]

you dont even have to change any animations for my suggetion

[atomic garnet]

I dunno i rather see some more interactions with how guns work instead of stats^^ like i think leveredge has some great uniques overall

[lethal verge]

ligit just disable cancleing the reload

[rugged forge]

i said for a shotgun its already powerfull that we have to remember that shotguns are not usable after 10m

[lethal verge]

it changes no mechanics

making the shotgun with overblast not have a interupatable reload changes nothing

its just going to the be similar to base rifle

[rugged forge]

destroying the "be on the last bullets" mechanic that i think its nice and creative

[atomic garnet]

I mean yeah games tend to heavely overnerf shotgun effective ranges compared to real life

[lethal verge]

clearly you have not played shotgun

you are saying its op#

[atomic garnet]

Just because if they didn’t shotguns would have little downside

[lethal verge]

or was op

[manic forge]

hey

[rugged forge]

i say its op. you can chek videos

[lethal verge]

haiiiii :3

[crimson oasis]

shotgun reaper overwatch animation when

[rugged forge]

go yyoutube. watch videos of far far west. how many are shotgun how many are "others"

nah srry you are just hurt

[lethal verge]

am just saying nerfing overblast by making it be 'magazine fed' / not having an interuptable reload

would be a great balance

that would fix the issue that was previlant and making you strartgise on wether you want max dps but a long ass reload time or more balanced

[atomic garnet]

Would prolly still need a numbers nerf overall, because lets be honest it was quite busted

[lethal verge]

yah i do agree with that

wether by making it 2-3 shells or making the reload lengthy

[atomic garnet]

But yeah all i’ll say i’d rather see uniques that change how a weapon plays instead of just being a strong normal joker, like overblast was/is for the most part^^

[rugged forge]

totally, you destroy a synergy with the joker (try be on last bullets of the magazine by managing the reload) but still had to tweak numbers

[lethal verge]

nooo

sure it would change the way you play

but it would be good

usable

[rugged forge]

lowering the total dps and keep the old joker is also not a posibility cause it would make the leveling awfull

[lethal verge]

that i can agree with

[rugged forge]

maybe a penalty on overall dps on the joker himself

keeping the old way of work

[lethal verge]

or anther way to balance it could be for every 'extra shell you fire' with overblast x amount get taken from your ammo reserves

[manic forge]

With a clip size of 26 you go from 507 pellets in the magazine to 254, while the default with no Overblast is 182

To put that into perspective, old Overblast increased your overall damage output by almost 280%. That's seven Glass Cannons. There is no defending it.

New Overblast is still roughly a 40% damage increase, which is perfectly reasonable considering its cost and alternative jokers available.

[rugged forge]

cause 1 pellet for each 4 feels a bit mñeh

[crimson oasis]

It still really good man

3 or 4 is fine

[atomic apex]

do it for every 5 and its still fine

[rugged forge]

thats the winchester joker on roids

[rugged forge]

dnt get me wrong i know its op but 1each4.... gives my some uncanny valley

[lethal verge]

like my main suggestion is revert old overblast (1-2 shells) but make the reload interruptible

[manic forge]

Interruptible reload meaning?

[lethal verge]

like a magazine

[lethal verge]

.

[lethal verge]

.

[rugged forge]

such a king

[lethal verge]

these two arguments

[manic forge]

Do you mean uninterruptible?

[lethal verge]

like the default rifle

[manic forge]

Yeah not happening lmao

[lethal verge]

welp i tried

at least i was heard out

:P

[lethal verge]

yah

[rugged forge]

that is still one of the best jokers on one of the best weapons

[sterile lake]

if the game released in to EA with overblast as it is right now no one would be having this conversation and everyone would think overblast is fine and needs no change

[atomic garnet]

Question is tho, how are uniques supposed to function in the end, are they intended as part of a standard build, or as something the opens up weapons to be played differently

[atomic garnet]

Honestly i’d personally still think its too much of a statstick as a unique

[manic forge]

I'm just thankful this is probably the biggest nerf we'll have to do for a long long time

[lethal verge]

i say option 2

[lethal verge]

thats good

[manic forge]

the former

[rugged forge]

its a nice nerf i dont think you "killed the meta"

[sterile lake]

just trying to put it in to perspective, it was way overtuned and don't get me wrong I thoroughly enjoyed the power lol but after a few games it feels like where it should be

[manic forge]

some uniques naturally do open up new playstyles but generally speaking they're weapon enhancers

something closer to DRG overclocks would be fun though

maybe in the future

[atomic garnet]

Because to me a unique is something that should fundamentally change a weapon/add a unique interaction, like the leveregde does, minigun elemental spin feels a bit like a statstick again

Statsticks/baseweaponenhancements i can get with normal jokers

[lethal verge]

am still gonna die on the uniteruptable reload shotgun hill

[atomic garnet]

Probably the best comparison someone could come up with^^

[sterile lake]

If you only reload ~4 shells it does change how you use the gun. it's not drastic but it does change

[rugged forge]

y minigun deserves a bit more love in a personality way. Feels a bit flat

[manic forge]

minigun's uniques do fall a bit flat I agree

[lethal verge]

sammy quick quesion are there plans for unique character jokers?

[manic forge]

wdym

like different passives for skins?

[lethal verge]

like weapons have unique jokers

and there are character jokers

but there are no character unique jokers

[vital forge]

but arent the character jokers already..unique?

[manic forge]

because theres only one character 😭

[atomic garnet]

perosnaly i think an interactioon witht he spinup might be cool, something that makes it attack speed slow down instead of getting faster, or some overheat mechanic^^

[lethal verge]

oh yeh tru

makes sense

ignore me

[sterile lake]

minigun unique that turns it in to a single laser beam that does pyro damage

[crimson oasis]

I’d kill for this

lowkey

[atomic garnet]

or something that gives a good amount of flat damage but pushes you back alot

so could be nice to fly across the backwards, but then you suffer on the boss because of it

[rugged forge]

knock back could be nice

or maybe not

[sterile lake]

would make accuracy more important

as a stat

[atomic garnet]

just give me my dreams of a minigun jetpack and i'm happy

[lethal verge]

jetpack joyride

[rugged forge]

to aim at ground with minigun and use it as a propeller

xDDDDD

best of both worlds

[atomic garnet]

i mean would be fun it if would work if you have enough aattack speed on it

like make the knockbackeffect based on bullets used

[rugged forge]

that would be a lot of fun, probably op

maybe just the last bullet of the mag

huge jump

gl with landing

[atomic garnet]

i mean as long as it isn't too controllable i'd like to think of the knockback as a nerf

since it should mess up/make your movement alot harder

[rugged forge]

i was thinking on knock back on enemys

later you sad the jetpack and i liked the idea

[atomic garnet]

huh.. i think that would be more fitting on the shotgun tbh^^

[rugged forge]

probably

i dnt know minigun needs some love

not on numbers

onplayfullnes and gunplay

[atomic garnet]

most definitely i do think knockback on your own character that's based on the amount of bullets consumed/second would be a fun start, miniguns are often seen as slow movementwise, would be fun if it's part of some movementtech here

[rugged forge]

like a balloon deflating, sounds fun

[atomic garnet]

you'd need to do everything backwards, and it will put you further from your aim so it would definitely be a pain to play in alot of circumstances

but that would be the beauty of it to me ^^

[rugged forge]

if you combo with less gravity can make stuff

agree

we shall be hired

[atomic garnet]

i mean if someone decides to go lower gravity and shoots his entire ammosupply in half a minute or less, why not let him fly?