having more options of legendary jokers to buy and start runs with

[bold siren]

ngl i just want the ability to start with dwarf lol

[plush flower]

Dwarf is quite overpowered, same with giant. It would be more reasonable to make new joker cards that also reduce/increase size but give less stat buffs.

I had a run with 2 giant cards on me where the boss died in about 8 seconds. It was a 4 player run.

[winter adder]

You see, you don’t have an accurate experience with how strong those cards are, given that you got those cards ON TOP OF your already decent build. If they had to take up space in your starting jokers, they may seem a lot less appealing.

And also, as you said- you got two of them.

[plush flower]

They are some of the most impactful cards I've ever picked up. Quite literally my build would just be Dwarf + Giant if I wanted to min-max. The stat differences they give are huge.

Even just 1 dwarf takes any setup from good to busted. The difference in mobility is absurd.

It's a moon grav and like 2 speedsters combined, and also makes your hitbox smaller.

Compared to literally any other legendary character mod it's godlike. I'd run it over glass cannon literally any day.

Not even talking about firerate.

Giant is maybe slightly less powerful but it gives spell cooldown reduction on top of making you tankier and giving you overall damage.

Both of them are absurd, and if you don't realize that they are then I don't think you've had much experience with them.

I run Chad on my builds purely to fish for them at the wandering trader because they TRIVIALIZE the boss.

Like, let me be clear, I also want dwarf as a starting card so I can be small and nimble. It's a funny card and it's novel. But it CANNOT be as strong as it currently is and have it shop accessible.

Same for Giant.

[plush flower]

An idea, however, if you will: You could try running a joker hunting build with Chad, Stonks, and Hoarder in order to increase your odds of seeing it. Is that viable? Probably not. Would it be kinda funny? Probably.

[winter adder]

Better way to test it is to repeatedly run far far north- it has a guarenteed legendary on the train. All you'd need to do is have five empty card slots to emulate having it in your base build.

To have a good baseline, just do that map without grabbing the legendary with a normal set up. (I did this, by the way. I got only 10-5% more damage from giant.)

[plush flower]

Sure, but you're only measuring damage. It also grants spell CDR and increases health, with the only ""downside"" being that you're larger, which I feel is actually good since it gives you a higher sightline and makes it possible to pick out prime targets from a crowd since you can see over the crowd.

[winter adder]

It is a legendary.

[plush flower]

It's not "standout" in any specific 1 thing, but when you add it all together it's way stronger than most legendaries.

[plush flower]

Like you've got to understand that this is it's competition. The only one here close to as strong is Glass Cannon, which gives way more damage but takes health instead of giving it. Toolbox is debatable and I think I've only seen one person use it, and Cantrip One-Trick exists I guess? Corruption spammers use it I guess.

There are strong legendaries, but they aren't on the character. They are on the weapon. These are the legendaries it would have to compete with, not Ricochet or Machine Gun.

Evidently they don't want players starting out with extreme levels of domination, hence why mods like +1 dash aren't here as they give the player such good movement as to become nearly impossible to hit.

[winter adder]

You need to test it. You can keep citing theory, but it NEEDS TO BE TESTED. I did, and didn't feel much of an impact beyond feeling WEAKER. I got hit by a lot more stray bullets, and didn't do as much damage overall.

[plush flower]

You alledge you did, and I simply don't believe you. You also keep talking about using it base, and I think the reason you felt weaker is because you didn't have a build and weren't comboing it with anything.

Again, assuming you even did.

This discussion isn't going anywhere.

[bold siren]

The only time ive gotten the dwarf card was actually on the train at the beginning of a run, but to be honest it was pretty strong and honestly having a joker that makes you smaller and faster just without the firerate for better balance would be pretty fun

[winter adder]

I would agree

[loud mountain]

i would definitely enjoy being short

partially because i love being fast but mainly because i think it's funny