Magic The Gathering

[wicked chasm]

For those of you with bottomless budgets and a desire to d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d--d-d-d-d-d-d-d----dddd-duel.

[cunning kelp]

d-d-dueling is yugioh wander

[wicked chasm]

Did I stutter?

Oh wait.

[cunning kelp]

a lot

[wicked chasm]

Lel

[steep quartz]

Oy, rude. I don't have a bottomless budget. Just bottomless amounts of downtime at my job to make decks.

[cunning kelp]

using the addage "Time is money" your bottomless time amounts to bottomless money, ergo a bottomless budget

[fleet cargo]

you always have a bottomless budget when all cards are free

[slate olive]

"WotC don't want you to know this, but the pngs of the cards are free. You can just take them from the internet."

[fleet cargo]

thats what ive been doing

mtg is the original nft

[steep quartz]

MtNFTG

[sudden wren]

:D

[slate olive]

nfMt^2G.

[sudden wren]

i just use Cockatrice cause

1. I don't enjoy proxying
2. I like building decks for free and then throwing them at strangers on the internet

[fleet cargo]

im playing cockatrice right now

[sudden wren]

[fleet cargo]

still need a 4th for our commander game but its what ever

been land starved for the last 14 turns now

[sudden wren]

ouch

i'd offer myself as a 4th, but like
I play some goofy decks

[fleet cargo]

i play some outragously jank decks

i have a deck that lets me make a ramping ammount of progenituses

[sudden wren]

wild

[fleet cargo]

only takes 7 cards to do

[sudden wren]

i either play tribal decks or theme decks

[fleet cargo]

yeah those are fun

[sudden wren]

Eldrazi is the best tribe

[fleet cargo]

i like me rats

the amount of anti eldrazi i have to deal with because of my brother's stealth emrycul decks is silly

[steep quartz]

You see, I like theme decks, but I tend to make them... very dumb.

Like a deck where everything is a DFC.

Yes, literally everything. There are no basics in this deck.

And no copping out with the double faced secret lair cards, either.

[cunning kelp]

gimmicks are fun

[fleet cargo]

i made a loot kte chaos deck

when it works its so funny

[steep quartz]

Occasionally the gimmicks are actually, you know... halfway decent. Like Necron Parking Lot.

[fleet cargo]

i love knowlege pool

[sudden wren]

disgusting

i don't really "cheat" my eldrazi out
im usually paying for them

[fleet cargo]

some time he does too but even still

[sudden wren]

if you're gonna be a player of the eldrazi, you must show them the respect 😤

[fleet cargo]

theres only so much you can do when there are 4 awakening zones out

no respect

[sudden wren]

huh

[fleet cargo]

the only way to out play an eldrazi player is to out cheese them

[sudden wren]

i mean\

not really

unless said eldrazi player is like...turboing out eldrazi

[fleet cargo]

you havent gone up againt my brothers

[sudden wren]

i've had my ass kicked plenty of times when playing eldrazi

[fleet cargo]

its the only way

[sudden wren]

your brothers sound like they play competitively

i play casually

[solemn topaz]

Yugi boy!

[sudden wren]

huh?

[fleet cargo]

they like exploiting very spesific things to an unfair amount

you like turn 4 merit lage? they do

[sudden wren]

i do not

i would not play with them

they sound just

pain

[fleet cargo]

yes

[solemn topaz]

Me just saying a generic phrase to get into the thread

[fleet cargo]

nice

[solemn topaz]

Also Oi wander, I do not have a bottomless budget

I have a moderately sized and carefully paced budget

[fleet cargo]

https://youtu.be/Q50t8BvWrsU

Absolutely hilarious

[sudden wren]

I hate matching on arena sometimes

Last night I got a game where the person was p much untouchable against my deck, but they couldn't do shit to me

So I was going to lose to naturally drawing myself out

[solemn topaz]

Damn

I don’t like arena cause I can’t just import my decade of collected cards and play. Maybe I should try out cockatrice.

[sudden wren]

Do it, it's free

[solemn topaz]

yeah

I just feel like if I do Im gonna get curb stompped and have no idea what happened

idk

I get anxiety over this stuff

[sudden wren]

I mean
You can always just play with people you can chat with

Like me

[solemn topaz]

this is true

[sudden wren]

^^

[sudden wren]

Hm.

do y'all see anything wrong with this image?

[solemn topaz]

a lot of things. mainly a distinct lack of poison counter based OTKs

why?

https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214383

specifically via this gremlin

one of the few infect cards I actually own

and dream of one day including in a deck just as the sole infect card

to randomly

instantly

kill someone

[sudden wren]

OTKs?

[sudden wren]

(also, this is standard, blighted agent is not legal)

[solemn topaz]

One turn kills

[solemn topaz]

It’s also arena. Blighted agent doesn’t exist on arena.

[sudden wren]

true

[sudden wren]

ah

nah, they just had the one card (skrelv's hive) to produce additional artifact creature

[solemn topaz]

And you had over 200 health yes

[sudden wren]

next turn, i was gonna have over 400

[solemn topaz]

Strange with that much life gain you weren’t running the goat that lets you win at 40…. No wait that card doesn’t exist in arena either.

[sudden wren]

i triple my soldier count, and then get that addition x 4 as health

i need to remember it's tripling cause mondrak says I make twice as many tokens

i love this deck to bits, its so stupid

i have another card in the deck that says whenever i cast a white perm spell, i can reduce its costs by 1 white pip in exchange for two life AND whenever i cast said spells, i create a 1/1 token

and then elesh norn doubles all my lifegain etb triggers from lunarch

which i have 4 of in the deck

so I can reach up to getting 8 life per creature entering

its just so...so ridiculous

[visual patrol]

Uhhh

have ya seen Ugin's Binding ?

https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/b/e/be13786a-f967-456b-bbc6-f4312467a827.jpg?1717011823

How about a new Cyclonic Rift

[solemn topaz]

oh great. thats..... lovely.

[fleet cargo]

Yeah my brother already made a deck with this card and it's nasty

It should be maybe

might even be fair

[visual patrol]

the cost is irrelevant tho

in commander you have SO many ways to get cards into the Graveyard

This card isnt really used for its cast

And mind you

It cares only about the written cost

not what you payed for the exile effect

So if that 7 Artifact costs only 1 because of Affinity

well it triggers the rift 2.0

[fleet cargo]

sure sure

oh i miss read the card

thought the inital casting cost was also a board wipe not targeted removal

yeah mh3 is going to be disgustedly over tuned i think

ive made a few decks with the new cards and they are just like why even do anything else

[solemn topaz]

I mean hell some decks just draw a ton of cards and discard down ot hand size. its just, busted. any deck with eldrazi is going ot run it. if they can. which given the new eldrazi's they're gonna run it. I hate Modern Horizon sets. cost and power creep. its obscene.

[sudden wren]

but thats lame

[slate olive]

So it 's colorless, but costs colored mana. Seems sus.

[sudden wren]

thats just how devoid works

[solemn topaz]

welcome to devoid and its complete stupidity.

I hate devoid

I hate the eldrazi

its stupid

I also hate slivers

they were a bad idea

[sudden wren]

i love all of them <.<

i think its good to have unique archetypes

[solemn topaz]

while true.

having 2 that are effectively objectively better at their jobs than anyone else (that job being good internal cohesion and synergy) is not okay.

[sudden wren]

i mean

humans and merfolk have pretty damn good synergy pieces

plus, slivers just

die to board clearing

since 99% of all their shit is on their creatures

[solemn topaz]

yes.... thats..... all of tribal.

the issue isn't its good tribal

the issue is if you are running a tribal deck, why aren't you running Eldrazi or Slivers.

if you want the best tribal deck you run those 2 idiots

for people like me (optimizing lunatics) it destroys creative choice unless we sit down with ourselves and tell ourselves "we are doing the suboptimal play here"

[fleet cargo]

But I like my silly littel boys

[slate olive]

Solution: Run Quintribal, so that the Eldrazi and Silvers only make up 40% of your tribes.

[solemn topaz]

Interesting strategy

[sudden wren]

what if you want to run human tribal?

or aetherborn tribal?

(yes, thats a thing)

[sudden wren]

i love stress testing MTGA and the bot

[solemn topaz]

I know that’s a thing. Some of us played Aether revolt.

[solemn topaz]

Again, it’s not about want, it’s about being optimal.

There’s a difference

[sudden wren]

guh

i just dont get the appeal

[slate olive]

Gur is obsessed with being as optimal as possible, even if it means having a long stretch of being unoptimal with the time spent.

In the case of competitive play for MtG, that means playing Eldrazi or Silvers Tribal.

And most players only do 2 tribes at most in a given library, so the normal optimal play is to play Dualtribal of Eldrazi and Silvers.

[solemn topaz]

Yeah. But I don’t do that cause their cards might as well be made with gold leaf considering how expensive they are

[sudden wren]

unfortunate to hear that then

although i have a feeling your LGS would disagree

[solemn topaz]

Observe my counter argument: the average market price of a Sliver Queen

one of the better sliver options

Sliver Overlord is like 60 bucks too

Eldrazi (the good ones anyways) are in that price range too IIR

spensive.

[sudden wren]

why are you presenting a counter arguement?

[solemn topaz]

you said this

...... I was saying tthat the cards were expensive....

[sudden wren]

i was saying that because most people I know who play at LGS's play more casually

[solemn topaz]

oh. no Im the casual one at my LGS

at least as far as I can tell

[sudden wren]

uh....huh

[solemn topaz]

or maybe casual has changed.

....... Lolbit..... legitimately.

some of those gremlins are out here playing mana vaults

my entire deck put together costs less than a mana vault

okay like 30 bucks more than a mana vault

same difference

I play an offshoot of Muldrotha that is built around recursion rather than using the graveyard as an extended hand.

[sudden wren]

man, i have a problem

i'm almost done having built 10 standard decks from only ONE straight

fml...

i need better hobbies

[solemn topaz]

which can I just say, I constantly get focused down because I play muldrotha even though Im not playing the dangerous line of it? Like seriously. people see the commander and just gut me.

its extremely rude.

[solemn topaz]

may I reccomend Warhammer? /j

[sudden wren]

hah

no

[solemn topaz]

udnerstandable

[sudden wren]

i like the lore, i don't like the company

[solemn topaz]

terrible awful company

fun miniatures

[sudden wren]

i had an ex-friend who was really into it
told me all sorts of cool stories about shit that happened in the world there

i felt very smug when I suprised him with MTG cards that references 40k characters he never knew existed

[solemn topaz]

heh

yeah

40k is big

[sudden wren]

i swear I don't have a problem

[solemn topaz]

you have an addiction

and thats okay

[sudden wren]

https://www.archidekt.com/folders/620730?dir=desc&orderBy=date

[sudden wren]

The funny thing is that all of these decks are missing 1-3 cards

[sudden wren]

I found my elesh norns
I thought I sold them

[solemn topaz]

God damn

All that

For 5 mana

That’s not okay

I pay that to play Sidisi

[sudden wren]

XD

Preators are always "I can, you Cant"

[solemn topaz]

just evil

so very very evil

eat doomblade

or murder

or assassins trophy

or uhhhh.......

what other stuff do I got

I got like 3 counter spells

oh wait I KNOW

PRIEST OF THE FORGOTTEN GODS BABYYYYYYYY

I love this card

theres also oko

yay oko

[sudden wren]

oko bad

[solemn topaz]

Oko good. Oko stall. Oko best boy cause he cost 3 mana and cripples my opponents

[sudden wren]

oko is banned in 6 formats for a reason

[solemn topaz]

…… not in commander……..

And sure he dies like right after I cast him

But that’s why we have Muldrotha my beloved

Look YOU play against a combo deck that makes you draw your entire library +1, and a different asshat who plays MANA CRYPT. Who brings MANA CRYPT to casual?!

So I said “screw this” and yeeted my Oko into my deck.

Anyways have I become evil? No. I just stopped holding back.

[sudden wren]

says the villain almost every time

[sudden wren]

yes, he's not banned in commander

however

[solemn topaz]

I…. But…. Look.

[sudden wren]

no

[solemn topaz]

Look THEY reprinted him. Thats basically the gods of this game themselves going “yeah use him ittle be fine”

Now those gods are also corrupt and evil

But that’s besides the point

[sudden wren]

they reprinted him as a bonus sheet card

[solemn topaz]

It’s still a reprint

Mines original printing anyways so that’s not even really an excuse

[sudden wren]

oko is strong
he's very good

but i hate him because it's just unfun to say "hey, you know your commander? it's a 3/3 now and there's almost nothing you can do about it"

[solemn topaz]

……. Yeahhhhhhh

It’s….. it’s not a great feeling to use him

If wish boards were legal

He’d just live there

But…. Since they aren’t he’s in my 99

I don’t like using him, but he’s one of the few ways for me to punch up.

[sudden wren]

i get that

i just...don't, really

i build me decks and then let them sit in stasis unless i need to change it

[solemn topaz]

Fair

I have….. an addiction to refinement and optimization

[sudden wren]

im not a very competitive or optimized player

you should see my deckbuilding strategy ;P

(it's just "hey this card looks cool", go way over the deck limit, and then trim down)

[solemn topaz]

Is it “this looks fun, this looks cool, I like that card”

[sudden wren]

yes

p much

[solemn topaz]

Yeah that’s mine too

[sudden wren]

there's like...SOME strategy

[solemn topaz]

But from there I refine

[sudden wren]

but i never think "this card is bad, what's the better alternative"

unless it's like

really bad

[solemn topaz]

I mostly build within my collection

[sudden wren]

like 6 mana 2/2 bad

[solemn topaz]

I don’t go looking for singletons to buy

[sudden wren]

if im building for paper, i'm playing a 60 card format like standard or modern

[solemn topaz]

So my decks are never The Best™️ but they are as good as I can get them

Occasionally if I want one specific card, I’ll buy it if it’s like 3 bucks at most.

[sudden wren]

i plan on buying the new eldrazi precon and that might just be my permenant paper commander deck

[solemn topaz]

Fair

I’m waiting til the cute lil guys set to buy again

I do not like supporting MM sets

[sudden wren]

MM sets?

[solemn topaz]

Modern Masters

Note how this is Modern Masters 3

Because they want these cards to impact modern they are all obscenely powerful.

And awful

And I don’t like that kind of thing

[sudden wren]

you mean...Modern Horizons?

[solemn topaz]

You wanna impact modern? Update the ban list, print better sets. Spend time doing actual RND

……. Look I’m stupid okay

My point stands

[sudden wren]

-shrug-

i don't really care how modern is impacted, i just care if there are cards I like

[solemn topaz]

It’s not that….. it…. The cards are blatantly more powerful because WOTC wants to impact modern, thus the set has a large amount of power creep, and they have the gaul to charge 2-3 times the price of a normal pack.

“They don’t set MSRP” don’t give me that garbage

There’s clearly some consensus somewhere.

[sudden wren]

wait, they're charging above standard rate for the packs?

[solemn topaz]

Yes!

That’s how EVERY modern horizon is!

They always charge more

Because the cards are guaranteed to be busted.

[sudden wren]

aren't they reprinting the fetchlands?

[solemn topaz]

I believe so

Which will bring down their price slightly

Doesn’t change that it’s an MH set and I hate their existence because of how much they charge and that they basically make you opt into it or the secondary market to get what you want.

[sudden wren]

-me, who plays cockatrice and only buys what I need unless i really like the set-

[solemn topaz]

…… entirely fair

[sudden wren]

yeah

the set i've bought the most outright packs for has been both Midnight Hunt and All Will Be One

with midnight hunt, i got a good deal on a draft box

but with ONE, i just kept buying bundle boxes

[solemn topaz]

For sets Im excited for I typically go to a pre release, and then follow up with buying one box.

thats about it for me.

does that vastly limit the cards that I end up getting and play around with in my toolbox? yeah kinda, but I like the limits.

keeps me grounded.

least it makes me feel like Im more grounded

[visual patrol]

Lol bit late but yes

Elesh Norn is nasty

Elesh Norn was fun to play on Arena Standard

So many decks that werent white played with lots “On entering the battlefield” effect

for enchants and monsters

Norn just hard countered them

[fleet cargo]

I was more of a vorenclex emjoyer

And I'm pretty sure everyone knows the problem with sheldreod the apocalypse by now

In case gurm hasn't seen this absolutely abysmal deck staple in the last year or so

[sudden wren]

yeah

she's also used as a moniker

ahem
"Sheoldred The Apocalypse isn't strong, she dies to removal!"

[solemn topaz]

…… wh….. what the hell.

[solemn topaz]

NO! NO NONE OF THAT! ITS IMMUNE TO DOOMBLADE! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

[sudden wren]

XD

[sudden wren]

just use murder or hero's downfall or Go For The Throat :clueless:

[solemn topaz]

but

btu doomblade

my beloved

wait 5 health?

LAVA AXE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[sudden wren]

trust me

you gotta HAVE that removal first

before you lose, you know, 6-8 life from drawing cards

[solemn topaz]

lava axe is removal

at sorcery speed.

for 5 mana

[fleet cargo]

Counter spell us the best removal for sheoldred

[sudden wren]

removal is the best removal for sheoldred

[solemn topaz]

I recommend chaos orb

Works every time

[sudden wren]

hey gurm

have you seen Greymond yet?

good human tribal commander

[fleet cargo]

Boy it's time for everyone favorite game, seeing what cards make gurm squrm since last they played

I wonder if he knows about lightpaws

[sudden wren]

i mean, we also have this, which is my personal preference for human tribal

[fleet cargo]

I hate going up against that deck

[sudden wren]

it's champion of the parish, but better

:]

[fleet cargo]

Yeah

[sudden wren]

we also have

ahem

voja

[fleet cargo]

It gets really silly really fast

[sudden wren]

which is an elf ball commander in disguise

[solemn topaz]

kinda spicy, fairly good, intriguing..... I still dont like hummies though.

[solemn topaz]

I.... wha...... god damn.

[sudden wren]

i should pit you against my friend and see who comes out on top

[solemn topaz]

Im sorry what.

what are you doing

what am I fighting over?

[sudden wren]

i was talking to my friend earlier about how you said eldrazi and sliver tribal were better than human and elf tribal

[solemn topaz]

what format is this? how casual is it? can I go ham and create my dream deck or do I have to use a physical deck I own?

[solemn topaz]

I said overall it was generically the objective best tribal yes.

[sudden wren]

he said you were flat wrong

[solemn topaz]

well now thats an interesting opinion

[sudden wren]

more specifically

he said

[solemn topaz]

pray tell what is his reasoning

I would like to hear this

[sudden wren]

"that is the opinion of someone who hasn't played magic recently"

[fleet cargo]

My brother has this light paws deck

[solemn topaz]

well Lolbit.

NO SHIT.

We've been over this

[fleet cargo]

It you don't take it out by turn 3 or 4 you just loes

[solemn topaz]

I havent seriously played magic til recently and all my current "experience" is still back in AETHER REVOLT

A SET SO OLD

PEOPLE AT MY LGS LOOK AT ME FUNNY WHEN I SAY IT

thats always the perspective Ive come at this from

Ive made htis very clear

I am not up to date

[sudden wren]

i'd have to ask him to text me the arguement cause we were in VC for it

[solemn topaz]

I just

I feel like Im upfront and clear about that

[sudden wren]

i know

[solemn topaz]

and I dont like being undercut by "well you're out of date"

and so.... sorry

Its been a day

[fleet cargo]

That's the fun of the game

[solemn topaz]

sorry for lashing out like that

[sudden wren]

i didn't realize you were lashing out <.<

[solemn topaz]

...... well that was me lashing out a lil bit. so I appologize.

have things gotten way better now? probably, from the sounds of it a lot a lot better.

But I still have my old opinions and I dont really look at all the cards. So.... think of me as a time capsule from 2017

[sudden wren]

i was just gonna say that his large arguement for the topic was that Human and elf tribal can work outside of a vaccum unlike sliver and eldrazi tribal

Slivers only work with slivers (you will never see a sliver outside of a tribal deck)
Eldrazi are better in 60 card four-of than in commander where its a 1-of-each

elves and humans both have very strong cards AND have cards that people typically play outside of the tribe anyways, like Thalia and Esper Sentinal

[solemn topaz]

hmmmm

I see

I hear that

I really do

[sudden wren]

like i said, i'd have to ask him to elaborate more in text so i can, more or less, copy paste

that, or put you two in a room togather -shrug-

[solemn topaz]

no thank you

I dont like being put in a room with people who have kept up to date with magic

cause all the cards I think are good they typically go "no thats bad. no youre wrong. no thats not how that is. no. no. no." ad infinum

it makes me feel small

and stupid

[sudden wren]

oh, no, dw

i get the same treatment

cause i use a ruleset that more or less makes my decks unoptimized

and use alot of cards other people would consider "bad"

someone else said that i build with Standards

[solemn topaz]

I mean my entire muldrotha line is basically a drunken spinoff that everyone goes "why are you playing her like that"

[sudden wren]

for example, you're never gonna see me play a cyclonic rift or farewell

oh wait...

[solemn topaz]

okay well first things first those cards are way too expensive

[sudden wren]

you

don't know what farewell is

[solemn topaz]

yes I do

[sudden wren]

oh, good

it's a...fucked off card

[solemn topaz]

its the boom everything

yeah

[solemn topaz]

and this is why we use counterspells

[sudden wren]

not so much boom

more so "goodbye forever"

[solemn topaz]

thats a big boom Lolbit.

ahahahahahhahaha

forever

cute

[sudden wren]

how many cards retrieve from exile?

[solemn topaz]

about...... 4

[slate olive]

Exile Everything but the Hand and Deck.

[solemn topaz]

but one of them is a creature

cackles in muldrotha

[sudden wren]

i exile your creature

[sudden wren]

path/swords/many many others

[solemn topaz]

I dont play Rift unless i need to

[sudden wren]

i think rift is just

unfun

[solemn topaz]

its a last ditch effort

well yeah

thats kinda the point

you exile stuff

I want it back

you used the most absolute form of removal in the game

I said no

[sudden wren]

oh, wait

you mean riftsweeper

i thought you meant cyc rift

[solemn topaz]

....... what did YOU think I mean

I JUST SAID THAT CARD WAS TOO EXPENSIVE

I USE THE RIVERS REBUKE THANK YOU VERY MUCH

and then have ways to return it to my hand

[sudden wren]

also, farewell is only 6 bucks <.<

[solemn topaz]

thats well above my price limit of 1.50

I dont like buying cards

also.

I dont play white

I play Sultai

[sudden wren]

you'd love pauper then /j

[solemn topaz]

occationally Orzhov but very rarely

[solemn topaz]

I used to like pauper

then I realized I still needed 4s of everything

so I left and play commander now

[sudden wren]

hey Gurm

do you like doctor who?

[solemn topaz]

in which my decks get curb stompped by lunatics who spent actual disposibal income on their deck and grumble grumble

Lolbit Im not buying a doctor who precon

[sudden wren]

:]

[solemn topaz]

I dont care how good the cards are

[sudden wren]

but funny

[slate olive]

What does the demonstrate tag do?

[solemn topaz]

I have no idea

also thats not Sultai

[sudden wren]

you may copy the spell
if you do, target opponent also copies it

[solemn topaz]

Lolbit. do you know what Sultai means

please tell me that term hasnt lost meaning

[sudden wren]

blue, black, green

[solemn topaz]

specifically focusing on sacrifices.

[sudden wren]

no, it will never lose meaning

[solemn topaz]

okay well I dont know at this point

[sudden wren]

sultai is the color combo

if you mean how you play the deck, thats a different part of the tag

[slate olive]

Best color combo is White/Black. You cannot change my mind.

[sudden wren]

yes i can

i stop your orzhov deck with a leyline of the void

also, gurm

Sultai doctor who

:]

alternatively, one of these two to replace 4

[solemn topaz]

.......... why would my orzhov deck do graveyard shenanigains

[sudden wren]

do you have death triggers?

[slate olive]

My Orzhov deck, back when I played, was purely about sacrifice triggers, using White's ability to spam out loads of cheap tokens to snackrifice.

I never directly touched the graveyard, only sent things to it.

[sudden wren]

so then what if i said if any creature tokens enter, they get exiled instantly?

[slate olive]

Fine by me, I never interacted with things in the graveyard once they landed there.

My Orzhov deck was purely focused on the active board, the hand, and undrawn cards, as the playable portions.

Once something went to the graveyard or exile, it was forgotten.

[sudden wren]

you

don't get your tokens though

[slate olive]

Tokens aren't my wincon, they're just my cheap method.

[sudden wren]

hmmm

very well

[slate olive]

I had other non-tokens to set out for snackrifice if someone was fucking with my tokens.

[sudden wren]

either way, my idea doesn't work cause i realized it only works if you're casting spells for free

-shrug-

[solemn topaz]

Ive looked at the decklists of those decks...... they aint great

[solemn topaz]

nope.

Ive got knights

and a lot of em

sure I have a hint of recursion

but mostly its just knights

[sudden wren]

oh

[solemn topaz]

lotta knights in black and white

[sudden wren]

have you seen the new knight commander then?

[solemn topaz]

yes I dont like her

no you cannot convince me to use her

yes she is probably better

no I dont care

[sudden wren]

i dunno

eminence is pretty good

[solemn topaz]

I will keep using her

[sudden wren]

you can use her IN this deck though

[solemn topaz]

I know

but I like her as the commander

[sudden wren]

alright then

[solemn topaz]

yeah she's a token creator and buffer.

which is nice, if I used either of those things significantly

I mostly just use knights and a hint of recursion to keep me on the board

Im stuck in my ways, sue me.

[slate olive]

White to spam tokens
Black to murder everything.

[solemn topaz]

okay while true, if I wanted white tokens, Id go hummies.

but I dont own a lot of hummie synergy

so I dont do that

[slate olive]

The perfect balance, and that's why Orzhov is the best color combo.

[solemn topaz]

no

Sultai is best

sultai has all the good things

none of the silly bad stuff

[sudden wren]

you don't need to do humans for tokens though

or

bleh

you don't need to do tokens for humans

[solemn topaz]

hummies make for the best token generators.

thus

if I want to go tokens

I should go hummies

[sudden wren]

no

[solemn topaz]

points at the BIG GIANT FLASHING SIGN that says my MTG logic is stuck in 2017

[sudden wren]

i know

[solemn topaz]

so.

inform me.

what has changed.

[sudden wren]

Soldiers and Goblins are some of the best token generation

[solemn topaz]

Kranko doesnt count and you know it

[sudden wren]

krenko is token generation

[solemn topaz]

wheres that meme

you know what doesnt matter Im going to just do it freehand

"the average goblin creates 375 tokens, this is untrue though because Krenko creates 7 billion goblins a year, and thus is a massive outlier and should be removed from the data"

[sudden wren]

well

my arguement for soldiers then

[slate olive]

"The average goblin, ignoring Krenko, creates 1 token a millenium."

[solemn topaz]

THEY MADE ANOTHER KRENKO

DO THEY NEVER

EVER

LEARN

[sudden wren]

also

[solemn topaz]

god damned powercreep piece of grumble grumble

[sudden wren]

we have token TRIPLERS now

in white

[slate olive]

Of course it's White with the Tripler.

[slate olive]

White is the Token color.

[solemn topaz]

oh and of course for 4 mana she's just makes your opponents unable to interact on your turn on TOP of the doubling

obviously

[solemn topaz]

Im going to kill Hazbro.

[sudden wren]

:]

oh

and she never goes away

cause she just turns into this land when she dies

[slate olive]

6 (converted) mana 6/6 that triples tokens and doesn't die when it dies is obscene. I love it.

[solemn topaz]

screw all of you. Im going back to 2017 with my muldrotha deck. and its gonna be great. things are gonna be slow. sets only come out every onnce in a while. its gonna be great. Im going to have FUN.

[sudden wren]

you have fun

im gonna bring gnome tribal

[solemn topaz]

I just

I want magic to slow down

and reset

take stock of what they have made and just consider what to do

but they just wont

and it just...... it saddens me

all my cards are basically obsolete.

I have to use toxic meta chasing BS to have a fighting chance against "joke" decks

[sudden wren]

do you like my gnomes?

[solemn topaz]

I like not having to look at my hobby and slowly break down in tears.

[slate olive]

Meanwhile all my cards are obsolete. The last time I touched my Orzhov deck was 2011.

[solemn topaz]

thats what I likje to do Lolbit

I like to look at my hobby collection and think "I can still be viable with this"

[sudden wren]

i mean, Gurm

i built a deck composed out of cards from only theros blocks, a majority of them dating back before aether revolt

and it functions pretty damn well

your cards aren't obsolete

[solemn topaz]

it sure damn feels like it some days

[sudden wren]

well...you gotta just push on

[solemn topaz]

yeah I know

Im sorta doing the stupid thing of depresision spiraling right now

[sudden wren]

it will be hard as hell, but it's the only way through

[solemn topaz]

gimme a bit and Ill be fine

[sudden wren]

take the time you need to process everything
eventually, you'll come out the other side better for it

[solemn topaz]

yeah

I know

[sudden wren]

hm, interesting

there's a jeskai craft commander

i didn't know that

i might build him cause he seems funky

and i haven't fucked with crafting yet

[solemn topaz]

funky

okay in other news I need help hunting down a creature

it was a green creature that could return itself to the battlefield passively with no cost

yes Ive tried seraching

and I think Im using the wrong terms or something

if anyone can think of such a card that would be great

I think it was a fungus?

[solemn topaz]

as I said, no additional costs.

it looked like a giant fungus in a chair

or was the fungus the chari?

either way Im currently looking through every green card ever printed with the text "graveyard"

so

Ill find it

if it does exist

[solemn topaz]

okay so that was a bust

new plan

look through every fungal card that exists

so Im slowly coming to the realization

this card might not exist

which is weird because I VIVIDLY remember playing against it and its the reason I dont do trades anymore

[solemn topaz]

I feel like Im having a nervious breakdown

I know this card exists

I played against it

I held it in my bloody hands

I can SEE the card art

I tried to trade for this card!

ITS REAL

I FOUND IT

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

@sudden wren I FOUND IT! IM NOT CRAZY!

alright now to deconstruct and rebuild my muldrotha deck as a mill machine

cause Im really holding myself back

[sudden wren]

oh yeah, good card

[solemn topaz]

suprizingly hard to find

mostly because while it IS a graveyard effect

nowhere on the card is the graveyard ever mentioned

[solemn topaz]

alright, theory crafting is done, purchasing is complete, now I get to wait 12-15 days to actually finish building the damned thing

or shorter

typically shorter

no idea why TCG player says 12-15

anywhoooooooooo. added a self mill package to better utalize the graveyard since thats been my main hangup, reduced land count to 34, which is mildly risky but most of what got removed were fetch lands I wasn't using and I still have a fairly insane number of mana dorks..... sac package was.... reverted? expanded upon? either way, Ill need to get some games in to really feel how it does, but Ive got confidence.

no I can't just test on cockatrice its not the same I need to be in the moment and suffering.

[sudden wren]

protolist, gonna need to make it better
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7932175/crafting_victory

but i like the idea

anyways, someone just killed me and everyone else with god damn prisoners dilemma XD

[solemn topaz]

eyyyy darksteel for...... why is DSF 40 dollars

[sudden wren]

cause board indestructible

[solemn topaz]

I mean I understand but I own one.

[sudden wren]

mix it with the fuckin...mycosynth lattice

i also own one

it's in storage right now

[solemn topaz]

I see

no its more so the whiplash of "most of my cards have decayed in value to almost nothing"

so when one of my old favorites randomly is in the 40+ range I get whiplashed

[sudden wren]

by removing 1 card, i have effectivelhy cut off a third of this decks price

weeeee

[solemn topaz]

dare I ask which card?

[sudden wren]

mox opal

[solemn topaz]

...... WELL YEAH

[solemn topaz]

I know what MO is

it also costs a small fortune

[sudden wren]

just checking

over 100 for a singular card, tsk

i might make a budget deck out of tetzin though

he's funky

[solemn topaz]

I mean he real funky

especially that you can potentially just transform Azors gateway without doing any of its main shenanigains

[sudden wren]

alternatively

elbrus the binding blade :]

[solemn topaz]

[sudden wren]

i love my innistrad demons, okay?

[solemn topaz]

nobody is letting that enter play, let alone stay alive

[sudden wren]

are you sure about that?

[solemn topaz]

............

no Im not sure but Im really hoping Im right

[sudden wren]

XD

[solemn topaz]

cause if a full table of 3 people let you get THAT out with gear face as your commander?

its over.

[sudden wren]

nah, it's not over

he's ONLY a 13/13 with 3 keywords

[solemn topaz]

oh yeah

totally

and with the ability that upon anotherp layer losing the game he becomes a 26/26

or a 39/39

depending on if the ability went off before

[sudden wren]

yea, he's fiiiiine

if only i could make a deck with him as a commander 😔

my jerren apostle deck will have to do

[solemn topaz]

also wait

you're running an artifact list in white

with DSF

and you arent using cata gearhulk?

[sudden wren]

yes

[solemn topaz]

you're breaking my heart

[sudden wren]

listen

i never thought about gearhulk

[solemn topaz]

YOURE BREAKING MY HEART LOLBIT

[solemn topaz]

cackles in aether revolt

[sudden wren]

because i was focused on trasnforming artifacts

[solemn topaz]

okay I get that

I understand that

I hear that

but

cata

[sudden wren]

how about

[solemn topaz]

uhuh

[sudden wren]

i say panharmonic

[solemn topaz]

.......... okaaaaaay?????????

[sudden wren]

idk

[solemn topaz]

so its a ETB doubler?

[sudden wren]

bleh, i need to stop stepping away from my computer

[solemn topaz]

you have one major ETB

[sudden wren]

bad dreams need not resurface

[solemn topaz]

I get that doubling it would be nice...... ehhhh whatever

build how you like

I dont have room to judge

[sudden wren]

i mean

i have other ETB triggers

cough tetzin

[solemn topaz]

I didn't see any probably cause Im too tired to be reading magic cards

[sudden wren]

sleep

[solemn topaz]

as I said

you have one big ETB trigger

your commander

outside of that I didn't see any major targets

and a card with 1 use is a wasted card

unless that 1 use is "win the game on the spot"

IE: broodmaster hydra

[sudden wren]

maybe to you

i play Altar of the Lost in my slogurk deck

[solemn topaz]

using flashback..... embarassing,.

just recersion the card to hand

ez

I mean its not like in my deck built around recurring everything possible I only have 1 way to eternally reccur spells to hand and even then its a cumbersome process with multiple flaws

but that would just be silly

question: how does proliferate interact with sagas?

does it 'accelerate' them, or does it just not do anything

could it do an entire saga in 1 turn if I proliferated enough

[sudden wren]

yes

you play a saga, it puts a lore counter on itself

whenever you put another lore counter on a saga, it activates the next chapter

you see it alot with the Saga Preators

[solemn topaz]

a what

[sudden wren]

oh yeah

so uhhh

you know the elesh norn we showed you?

the one that cancels opponents ETBs?

we got a whole cycle of preators like that

and then in the set after that, we got a new cycle of preators that can transform into sagas and then back into preators

you wanna see them?

[solemn topaz]

no

no thank you

[sudden wren]

a shame

to simplify, we got
an elesh norn that does a boardwipe that also protects phyrexians
a jin-gitaxias that gives you no max handsize and omniscience-effect
a sheoldred that is a wincon (puts ALL creatures in graveyards on your board)
an urabrask that gives your graveyard flashback
and a vorinclex that soups up your creatures

and these sagas are repeatable because they transform back into the preators once the saga finishes

[sudden wren]

do you know the 2nd preator cycle, the one ETB elesh is a part of?

we've shown you Elesh and Sheoldred, but idk if you've seen the other 3

if you haven't, here

oh yeah, we also have 3 cycles of eldrazi titans now, although THAT im definetely sure you knew

[visual patrol]

DONT CARE OWY

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9b08301e-e78b-41c7-99e5-552d0ed15d34/dfu5c5f-665cf501-cdaf-4d12-baab-76f139423a64.png/v1/fill/w_1196,h_668,q_70,strp/march_of_the_machine_cycles__praetor_sagas_by_pmiller1_dfu5c5f-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzQwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvOWIwODMwMWUtZTc4Yi00MWM3LTk5ZTUtNTUyZDBlZDE1ZDM0XC9kZnU1YzVmLTY2NWNmNTAxLWNkYWYtNGQxMi1iYWFiLTc2ZjEzOTQyM2E2NC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTMyNSJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.0skCwjCZTJgQr1JEoYsO36dT7kpXFUVczBmBApDbNCw

Norn the 3 turn board wipe

[sudden wren]

i mean

it's turn 1 if you proliferate twice

[fleet cargo]

Speaking of dark steal heres the cheaper version

Funnily enough also from the same set as those prators

[sudden wren]

God bless standard sets

[visual patrol]

Funny bit

The flipped side was almost never used

The ETB effect just too strong

Also they mutilated my lovely infect ability

now its poison counters on them... no more -1/-1 counters

[sudden wren]

it's just Poisonous/Toxic

[sudden wren]

also, commander players beg to differ as its just a OHKO if it connects

[solemn topaz]

It’s so sad.

[solemn topaz]

………. DSF just makes everything indestructible

[fleet cargo]

Oh I'm an idiot and thought you ment blightsteel colossus

Granted I just woke up when i saw that

[solemn topaz]

Dark Steel Forge baby. One of the best artifacts ever.

[fleet cargo]

It's alright

Doesn't really stop exile and I have to deal with a heavy amount of that

[solemn topaz]

Well yes pagan. Thats kinda the point of exile.

[solemn topaz]

In other news: look at my boy. So precious. So sweet.

[fleet cargo]

Oh I get that

But because of how much they like their removal it's kinda a pointless artifact for me

[solemn topaz]

I see

…… my god….. repeatable counterspells exist….

[fleet cargo]

First time?

Have you not seen isocron Scepter

[solemn topaz]

Pagan. Do I need to point at the giant glowing sign again.

Okay wait…. What….

Pagan, that card can’t do most counter spells

[fleet cargo]

I thought it was an older card

[solemn topaz]

It is

I’m just stupid

All the good counter spells I own are 3-4 mana

I don’t have any of the cheap ones, and their price is out of my budget

[fleet cargo]

Ah

I got a couple counter spells

[solemn topaz]

Anywho I found a use for my Gyruda that I got from a random kid just giving it to me at a FNM event.

Also: who the hell gives away alt art cards?

I just…. So weird

No he’s not used as a companion. Just as a normal card.

YOU CANNOT TAKE MY BIRDS OF PARADISE AWAY! NEVER!

Odd question: whenever I see people talking about recursive black cards they always seem to bring up gutterbones….. instead of the infinitely better sac fodder known as reassembling skeleton.

Why nobody use my boy.

[sudden wren]

i mean, i use Persistent Specimen

casting cost is 1 cheaper, but return is 1 more

[solemn topaz]

I see

But that still remains: why gutter? He’s 2 to return TO HAND, then 2 to cast again, which to even return him you have to deal damage

It’s just so inefficient

[sudden wren]

i have no idea what card you are talking about, im ngl

[solemn topaz]

https://product-images.tcgplayer.com/183034.jpg

Okay so he’s 1 to cast again but same difference

He’s very mana inefficient

[sudden wren]

man, that condition is

bad

[solemn topaz]

Yeah

And yet people herald him as one of the best self recursion cards

It’s disgraceful

Maybe if you wanted ETB triggers?

But if you’re running aristocrats, there’s far better options

[solemn topaz]

Guess who found their Hedron Crab!!!

Took…. Like 3 hours

[sudden wren]

i bought some ONE packs and pulled an Atraxa, Grand Unifer

thats cool

[solemn topaz]

Nice.

I think

[sudden wren]

she does a funky ETB

let me grab her

i think im gonna sell her and my Junji Ito Norn to cushion my pockets for when I buy the Eldrazi Precon

[solemn topaz]

oh damn its my 4 favorite colours

and some of my favorite keywords

and she does type shenanigains?

this is the part where you make me cry and explain how expensive she is

[sudden wren]

she's $20

[solemn topaz]

welp

not doin that

[sudden wren]

she fetches one card of each card type
but because its an ETB trigger, you can blink her and combine her with ETB stuff

she's basically lets you go right through your deck to get what you need

[solemn topaz]

yes I know. that was meant to be a ?! but I hit Enter too quickly

[sudden wren]

aaaah

[solemn topaz]

man, they gave phyrexia so many fun toys

why couldnt we have just stayed doing phyrexia stuff for like a year or 2

why did hazbro have to demand more faster profits.

and then did some stupid thing to the oil that makes it unlikely that we will ever return to any form of phyrexia

which makes me extremely sad

the oils whole point was "one drop and yall are so screwed"

and then they just did some avengers film "we killed the leader that means it turns off" junk

or so Ive heard

I could be entirely wrong

look okay call me a horrible person I kinda want phyrexia to win one of these days

just have a handful of sets where its like "yeah, they won, they've taken over most of everything. yall lost"

and then have that one guy who can rewrite narratives fix it again.

he;'s still alive right?

[sudden wren]

uhhh

one sec, need to adress these one at a time

1. I wish they made March of the Machine go across multiple sets instead of having it be a one and done
2. Yeah, when Elesh Norn died, all the phyrexians just kinda...stopped. iirc, lore said they "froze in place and/or turned off"

and as for narratives guy, you mean Commadore Guff?

[solemn topaz]

probably?????

yes.

that guy

[sudden wren]

commadore guff is the only guy i can think of that has 4th wall breaking shite

[fleet cargo]

i just wish that wizards did more with the battles

[solemn topaz]

yeah okay found his wiki entry

so it was the BOOK that did it

that book has apparenlty just. gone missing.

[sudden wren]

yeah...

[solemn topaz]

and Gruff was slaughtered by Yawgmoth

[sudden wren]

again, felt like a one and done

[fleet cargo]

like they made a whole new card type and then lotr came out and they didnt even use it for any of the battles there

[solemn topaz]

interestingly a lot of very important extremely powerful magical artifacts of mass destruction WOTC has done that with

like the bow that was made to kill bolas

or that one orb thingy that was kinda.... like..... breaking everything and driving people crazy

it was part of Mirodin IIR

[sudden wren]

i really REALLY hope we aren't done with the phyrexians in lore

if its a small comfort, we don't know if urabrask is actually dead, so MAYBE he'll come back

maybe

[solemn topaz]

the small comfort would be I hope there is some Phyrexian oil out there that elish didn't get to thats rampaging across a hidden realm

cause we just got a new map to the multiverse

who knows what Phyrexia found back in the day given that they claimed a bunch of named and unamned planes

look my gameplay might be back in Aether Revolt but I did watch like 3 lore vids to make sure I was up to date

[sudden wren]

-shrug-

i think it's dumb that EVERY PHYREXIAN just kinda stopped working cause elesh died

that's...not how it works

[solemn topaz]

so stupid

so so very stupid

I mean you know why they did that right Lolbit?

they wrote themselves into a corner

Phyrexia could transform planeswalkers, they got the world tree, you can cut the head off of the snake but it was going to keep moving. they needed some shortcut to end it so they could move to the next set.

[sudden wren]

they could have at least made it lengthy and such like they did with the Eldrazi and Nicol Bolas

[solemn topaz]

yeah..... that woulda been nice

shame

[sudden wren]

they also fucked up the whole process of phyresis

cause you know all those compleated planeswalkers?
whoops, they're midly easy to turn back

but we can't help the other people, sorry!

[solemn topaz]

oopsie

[fleet cargo]

but not all the planeswalkers

[solemn topaz]

its not like Phyresis was meant to be almost completely unstoppable except for that one lady and planeswalkers

[fleet cargo]

didnt a few die

[solemn topaz]

I mean a ton died to Bolas, just not any of the big named ones

cause like we couldnt have that happen

[sudden wren]

tamiyo died

and lukka

and i think that was it

[fleet cargo]

i thought jace died aswel

[sudden wren]

nope

he's fine!

[solemn topaz]

no Jace is very much alive and kicking

[sudden wren]

he's in OTJ

[fleet cargo]

really?

[sudden wren]

yeah

[fleet cargo]

huh ok

[solemn topaz]

he's out and about with Vrasska and they got "Key" and a new map of the multiverse

[sudden wren]

he made himself a mind palace like with what happened in eldritch moon

[solemn topaz]

okay no seriously

wtf is up with that moon

[fleet cargo]

dont worry about it

[solemn topaz]

theres a moon that has Emerkul in it

[sudden wren]

emrakrul is in it, remember?

[solemn topaz]

and we just

[sudden wren]

yeah

[solemn topaz]

arent going to do anything about it?

[sudden wren]

we're just ignoring it

[fleet cargo]

dont worry about it

[solemn topaz]

it was also hinted that Emerkull WANTED to be in there?

[sudden wren]

which is sad cause that was like

[solemn topaz]

and we're just going to IGNORE THAT

[sudden wren]

a whole major plot point for multiple things

[fleet cargo]

doont worry about it

we'll be fiiine

[solemn topaz]

THIS IS NOT FATE THAT DOESNT WORK HERE

[sudden wren]

holy shit, give me some time

my computer is being super slow

[solemn topaz]

nono carry on Lolbit

Im just giving pagan crap

dont worry about it.

[sudden wren]

i know, but like

i have a whole thing

but it's annoying

[solemn topaz]

then get typing!

have a snom

[sudden wren]

i can't

my computer is being slow and litterally slowing doing my visual typing

give me a couple minutes

[solemn topaz]

okay. Ill just wait here.

menacingly

[sudden wren]

okay, lets see

1. Emrakrul WANTED to be sealed away cause she knew Kozilek and Ulamog were "dead" and was saying that innistrad wasn't ready for her. She then USED Tamiyo to seal herself in

2. Emrakruls presence in the moon CAUSED the Eternal Night in Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow, which are 2 entire sets

[solemn topaz]

okay.

but so like