programmers-off-topic

[little furnace]

This is honestly crazy:

Not advertising, I'm not sure anybody actually needs that. Just find it incredibly weird.

[cyan shadow]

What, the Fairphone? They're €600 in Europe

God, I miss the days when 5 inch screens were just the defacto

Perfect for my tiny gremlin hands

[cinder karma]

Tbh $899 is probably close to 600 euro these days

Oh quill guess what I did that was super dumb but worked out in hindsight?

When I was setting up my 401k I picked "international large cap" as my equities

I thought that was total world large cap

Nope. It's non US large cap

[cyan shadow]

I don't know enough about 401ks to know what this means

[cinder karma]

But non US stocks wildly outperformed US stocks lol

So I basically got a 40% return on my 401k in the last year

[cyan shadow]

In India the 401k equivalent works differently + I have no idea how Dutch pensions work

[cinder karma]

tl;dr one of my big investment accounts accidentally was 70% foreign equities just when foreign equities went on a tear

[cyan shadow]

Nice

May I suggest looking into Indian snack companies for your portfolio
Those fuckers are incredibly resilient on account of how cheap their snacks are

The economy may be shit but Parle is always in the green

[cyan shadow]

Assuming they even let you buy, that is

Idk

[cinder karma]

I dont buy individual stocks, mostly, I have mostly etfs

[cyan shadow]

But they're good investments

Ah

[cinder karma]

The one share i own is a single share of berkshire b lol

(For the geico discount)

[cyan shadow]

My dad is in charge of the family investments, we haven't lost money in a LONG time is all I know lmao

Mom and I just leave him to it

I personally only have a fixed deposit to my name, no stonks

The fixed deposit's interest is like 5% tho it's a good thing

[safe dragon]

for the most part it boils down to employers being required to reserve some part of your salary and put it towards your pension

• the state pension of course which is mostly based on how many years you've lived here up to 50 years for the full amount

the actual pension funds that will eventually pay out your pension when that day comes are basically investments based like the US. That wasn't necessarily the case till uh, last month

you can choose to save extra on top of that in pension savings accounts

[cinder karma]

(I will say the equivalent to the state pension in the US is social security, not the 401k)

Which has Fun Rules and a lot of math behind it

[safe dragon]

state pension and social welfare programs like unemployment benefits are separate here

[cinder karma]

Social Security is the state pension

Social Security Disability Insurance is the long term disability program, which is actually different

Unemployment is just called...Unemployment Benefits

[safe dragon]

oh right I meant disability not unemployment

[safe dragon]

tbh we're not any more inventive

though it's usually abbreviated to WW

state pension is AOW

and the disability benefits thing is WIA

or if you prefer their actual names

1. werkloosheidsuitkering
2. algemeen ouderdomswet
3. arbeidsongeschiktheidsverzekering

[cinder karma]

Bless u

[safe dragon]

arbeidsongeschiktheidsverzekering is a good word

arbeid = work
ongeschiktheid = unsuitability
verzekering = insurance

compound words are great

insurance not because it's an insurance you sign up for but because it's paid for by the working population, with a part of their salaries being taken to go towards it

[cinder karma]

Yeah, like FICA/unemployment insurance

[devout vault]

Imagine using tax money to benefit the populace. The US could never

[safe dragon]

don't worry. Our government too does its absolute best to avoid actually having to give you it

you get assigned a percentage of "how disabled you are" so you can be like 50% disabled and are expected to still be working a job at 50% capacity

and the process to even get that far is very long and painful

[cinder karma]

The real problem with ssdi is that it's a hilariously small amount of money and iirc there are asset requirements that are also laughable

God, my left arm for pointers rn

[devout vault]

void* data = (void*) 0x45B5C9EF;
You're welcome

[cinder karma]

The fucky thing about the US system is that your benefits get reduced if you manage to make other income

[devout vault]

Can't see the depth of lump as well in the video

[safe dragon]

don't disturb them

is this new

the buttons

[devout vault]

Where

Oh, discord?

[safe dragon]

yes

the client

[devout vault]

Mine updated probably this amount of time ago, so I don't see it

[cinder karma]

Could be an A/B test

My discord is A/B testing being about 10 pixels too far to the right

[tacit night]

i feel like the commands aren't but the ui probably is

[little furnace]

Discord: Reinventing UI since 2015.

[cinder karma]

I was just bitching the browser is a worse version of the operating system smh

(I had about nine million tabs open trying to do a bank transfer, link my 401k to my bank's net worth tracker, etc.)

[safe dragon]

another day, another one of these

<@&239770080378880001>

thank

[devout vault]

only a single thank though, despite it being four images

Petition to have it where when someone gets the ban hammer from a message, a gif of them being smited is posted into that channel

[safe dragon]

I did another thanks in #adventurers-guild

[waxen cliff]

[cinder karma]

Teams is now correcting mg shitty spelling

[safe dragon]

a colleague complained about that today

he has spelling correction on teams now

and since we type in two languages at work it apparently just shits the bed

[steel kraken]

I've been mostly enjoying teams doing it

[safe dragon]

my teams doesn't do this as far as I know

thankfully

cause I too type in two languages

[cyan shadow]

Identical to ours then, for that first bit

[hasty sinew]

Today is a phenomenal day

Holy crap

[prisma flume]

i've seen excel used as a lot of things, but never an ide

[supple ether]

That is a flavor of evil that I didn't even conceive of

[devout vault]

Eh, there's excel raytracing, an IDE doesn't even come close to that

[safe dragon]

I work for an engineering company

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7120 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1465848634989084834)

[safe dragon]

I'm more surprised when someone doesn't try to do something in excel even when they shouldn't

[steel kraken]

when I was doing the compatibility analysis for 1.6 I was taking json dumps from logs and processing it in excel

[devout vault]

brb adding xlsx mod loading to content patcher

Remind me in 62 days to maybe do that ^

[heavy dagger]

For the lovely kittycatcasey? Why most certainly. (#7047433) (62d | <t:1774912922>)

New quote added by atravita as #7121 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1465849215916834816)

[devout vault]

I could play the Terraria 1.4.5 update, but I'm feeling a sudden urge to indulge in yuri instead.

finally buys I'm in Love with the Villainess book 3

[devout vault]

-# was very confused it started at chapter 9 and thought it had downloaded wrong or something, didn't realize the chapters don't reset each book

-# yes book 2 was the same way but I had read that shortly after the anime came out, it's been a while

[devout vault]

15 pages in, god I wish there was a season 2 of the anime

(anime didn't even reach end of book 2, but still)

[supple ether]

Well cp patches technically are tabular data

[devout vault]

Pathos, lurking in shadows: don't encourage her

[cinder karma]

I'm not going to encourage crimes in Pathos' back yard

Smh

I'm a good, law abiding citizen

[fleet wren]

it's rather unlikely to happen is it
but one can always dream

[devout vault]

brb winning the lottery solely so I can fund a S2+

[pliant snow]

New fun tech issue, brand new install, but my wi-fi cuts out after a few seconds, during which I'm quickly downloading steam games. No idea what's going on

[devout vault]

steam said no

Or I guess your wifi did

[pliant snow]

I have to either reboot or restart the network daemon, and then it only restarts for a little bit before crapping out again

im suspicious of my router

[devout vault]

Almost made a meme to illustrate my point, but given the meme's original context I shall refrain

Just in case

[pliant snow]

ssh isn't causing this is it...

no

[little furnace]

Does it only happen during a Steam download?

[pliant snow]

I don't think so, but I'm waiting for this steam download to finish before I find out lol

[pliant snow]

okay maybe it is only during steam downloads

[dusty pollen]

does it not have automatic timed reboot built in? ours does (and literally does it at 3am lmao)

[devout vault]

(So much fun, I wonder when the angst serious plot development starts)

[devout vault]

(There has, in fact, been angst serious plot development. And I’m only a little half way through the book, how exciting)

[devout vault]

Book 3 complete. Forgot how much I liked this series.

[safe dragon]

today was truly a day

I worked around layouting bugs in chrome to then run into layouting bugs in firefox that only happened cause of the workaround for chrome

don't become a web dev

[devout vault]

Don't worry, I'll do my best not to

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7127 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1466099730214949143)

[cinder karma]

I want to make a poll

How many people here are web devs

[devout vault]

Only current, or including recovering?

[fleet wren]

I dev web, but thankfully not anything visual/CSS adjacent

browser compat is still a butt though

safari my beloathed

[pliant snow]

.qp Are you a web developer

1. Yes
2. I'm a developer, but not a web developer
3. I'm not a developer
   --options 3

The fact that discord can't tell me who the second person that reacted 1️⃣ is makes me doubt it's not a bug

[frosty echo]

I only see 1 for the 1️⃣

[pliant snow]

a ghost...

[cinder karma]

Btw since I dont have any context I'm gonna assume you're referring to terraria

[devout vault]

I sometimes will get that in DMs on messages I haven't reacted to.

I'm pretty sure I've joked to atra before about our DMs being watched

[devout vault]

The context was in the reply chain. 😛 Not terraria, it was the book

[cinder karma]

Terraria is funnier

[safe dragon]

I avoid this by working for on internal company software where there are no macs or iPhones capable of entering the company network

ez

[thin estuary]

that will surely show them

[safe dragon]

that will cut into their profits for the last 12 months by uh, 0.03%

they will never financially recover

[cinder karma]

Crumble when will ur company insist on Fairphone

[safe dragon]

no idea...

it's Samsung rn

[cinder karma]

In this house we like samsung

[thin estuary]

would be funny if it wasn't actually true and depressing

[long verge]

Excuse me what the actual fuck

https://x.com/grok/status/2016102416534454651?s=46 wild

Grok (@grok)

@mirrorfield @CBSNews Based on Alphabet's trailing 12-month revenue of $385.5B (ending Sep 2025), Google typically earns $68M in about 1 hour and 33 minutes.

X · Jan 27, 2026, 10:54 AM

[safe dragon]

yeah when I did that 0.03% calculation I wasn't lying

that's based on their profits though, not on revenue cause I tried to be fair to them...

[cinder karma]

My dumb ass somehow made a file named -O base.sv

[devout vault]

I think .net is lying to me, but I'm not sure where/why

According to both the debugger and what actually happens:
someObj._currentThing.X = -10
someObj.GetThing().X = 0

GetThing() returns _currentThing (which is a struct)

(Also, I had previously set _currentThing to a new version where X = -10)

...

I may have overlooked something

[prisma flume]

sure are a lot of 3️⃣ around here

[devout vault]

I mean, at least two of them have developed in the past. (things that are too on-topic to mention here, but still)

And at least one still develops, just more hardware focused rather than strictly software

[safe dragon]

atra is just wrong smh

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7132 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1466211720195477809)

[dusty pollen]

pssst lurking junis fallout 76 isn't free right now, they're just doing a week long trial that you will lose access to on feb 6th

[cinder karma]

I thought Moo was a developer

[safe dragon]

thankfully your life is generally better without fallout 76

[cinder karma]

What aboit fallout 67

[safe dragon]

not out yet

[fleet wren]

67!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤌 🤌

[safe dragon]

oh

[devout vault]

did atra just whoosh crumble with some culture/slang

am i reading this right

am i going insane

[cinder karma]

Anyways crumble do u have either a cat or a opus that thing picture

[cinder karma]

YouTube gave a little "six seven 🎉 " for being the 67th like recently so I think the gen alpha brain rot has come for us all

[safe dragon]

it didn't even cross my mind so I think that's what happened

[safe dragon]

nothing new

[fleet wren]

I'm solving some custom Steam Workshop puzzles on the side and I'm quite proud of this one

[cinder karma]

Hey a bobcat+

[safe dragon]

that's some fancy stuff

[cinder karma]

Blueberry is a webdev?

[cinder karma]

Is that limited space

[fleet wren]

yeah, there's a subset of puzzles where you're only given that much space

[cinder karma]

Looks fun!

[safe dragon]

I haven't gotten to these yet but they sound like they'd be my nemesis

[cinder karma]

Do any of the constraints budget

[fleet wren]

no but that would be a fun challenge lol

here solve this puzzle with a single arm and at most 20 extra bucks for tracks

[cinder karma]

I'm hearing get the game from steam

[cinder karma]

every fucking time I log into discord on my laptop and see peoples weird fonts I'm like why

[hardy jewel]

Atra hates fun

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7136 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1466265345634603039)

[cinder karma]

Zoe! I'm amused that it's possible to get timed out by looking up quotes in #governors-mansion

[hardy jewel]

Blame aquo for that

[devout vault]

Clearly, you quoted someone who said "don't quote me on this"

[hardy jewel]

Bot commands are just counted the same as any other message, so they can trip the spam filter

[cinder karma]

aquo I blame u

#governors-mansion though?

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7137 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1466266207887032320)

[devout vault]

See atra, that doesn't cause a problem because I wasn't saying you couldn't quote me on it, I was giving an example

[hardy jewel]

It does give false positives in there more often than it catches anything of value

And the scams that get sent there also get sent everywhere else anyways

hm

@pliant snow helo

[cinder karma]

@ aquo I take it back I don't blame u

[devout vault]

Or you could specifically whitelist .q in #governors-mansion

[pliant snow]

What

[hardy jewel]

is there a way to whitelist gov mansion so people don't constantly trip the spam filter there and get timed out

It happens very often

[pliant snow]

I mean

[hardy jewel]

same for #stardrop-saloon

[pliant snow]

Is this really the worst thing to happen

[hardy jewel]

Aquo hates everyone

[devout vault]

Aquo wants to silence atra confirmed

What did atra ever do to you

Besides blame you for this whole thing for less than 3 minutes

[cinder karma]

and singing katseye songs VERY loudly

and off key

[pliant snow]

I think there is a whitelist set up tho, we could modify it

[little furnace]

Why do you see other people's fonts on your laptop?

[worn remnant]

it's a discord feature (nitro perk?) to let users choose different fonts for their display names, which others can see

i presume it doesn't work on mobile

[devout vault]

I cannot definitively say it doesn’t since my app is probably old

[pliant snow]

yeah, they added that

Zoe's name is a custom font

for example

im pretty sure there's a setting to disable it

[little furnace]

I mean, I guess it's weird. Kinda.

But then again, I often log into Discord and see a new name next to a known profile pic because people update their names according to a theme, and that's just as weird.

I guess I don't really pay attention to names. Usually I look at the profile picture to recognize people.

[devout vault]

I know someone who does that but also the profile picture. They’re in a server with me and 2 other people who never really change theirs, and it still confuses us

[cinder karma]

Hey now

(Valentines Day)

I figured smth cute was more fun

[little furnace]

I don't want to tell people to stick to one profile picture. It's how they express their online identity. But on the other hand, it's kinda like people you meet in person having a different face every day.

Which admittedly doesn't make much of a difference to me because I'm bad at remembering faces, but still...

[sand frost]

i made a tire appointment and everything and they...didn't fix the tire pressure sensors

(they did other tire stuff, not a total loss, just annoying they were so backed up they skipped it and now i have to go back)

[little furnace]

That's disappointing. I hope you get a new appointment soon.

[devout vault]

or as my brother used to call it, singles awareness day

[devout vault]

Dang, guess you can’t change usernames yet

[steel kraken]

wat

[dusty pollen]

speaking of, what is a jadga

[devout vault]

It’s okay, I didn’t realize until now that atra didn’t mean personal identification number numbers, either.

but also atra why are those 1 indexed??

[devout vault]

Context: #making-mods-general message

But also

.q 6916

[heavy dagger]

#6916

And you have more PRs on my repo than the resident fix-JA/DGA-for-casey-er (ie. Elizabeth)

• @devout vault (Jump)

Jan 7, 2026, 6:33 PM

[sand frost]

Casey’s mods that I’ve sent (probably too many) PRs for

[steel kraken]

casey has me beat in smapi, but I have more in pathos stardewmods

[cinder karma]

Clearly u should send 1 line nusiense prs

[devout vault]

Apparently this is a thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act

Found out about it from the newest albertatech video (focused on AI though, so not posting it here)

[safe dragon]

damn something prediction markets can't bet on

[supple ether]

to be clear I do not care about replies to old posts at all. I do not believe in the concept of thread necro. if you have something to add to a conversation from 6 months ago you can do that. just make sure to @ me so I see it.

[devout vault]

Neither do I, I just said that because it's unusual 😛

[fleet wren]

(crab warning) https://dayssincelastrustmcserver.com

interesting; i dont play MC but is their server API open

[devout vault]

How mildly amusing

Back in my day, we were doing a Java generic engine with modding focus, with a specific plugin for MC 😛

(Ie. https://github.com/spoutdev/Vanilla )

I vaguely recall being offered an official place on the team after how much I had been doing, but I didn’t end up doing that

Because of personal IRL priority changes, mainly

[red crest]

i have a question about licensing. if i have two open source projects from other people, and basically smushed them together along with a buncha my own work to create one project, so the code from both of them and myself is all sorta mushed together like you shuffled 3 stacks of playing cards together, what is the proper way to include the license?
like obv i know the license has to go somewhere, but normally id just put it next to the code in question or say like "the code in this file is under this license: blabla"
but if theyre all mushed together, where do i... put the license. do i just put the licenses in the root of the repo and just say "parts of this repo are under this license and other parts are under this other license but good luck figuring out which"??

[devout vault]

I think that would depend on the licenses involved

Like GPL is “infectious”, if I remember right

[red crest]

one is MIT, the other is, uh, custom

[crystal wren]

Custom would be, uhh... difficult.

[red crest]

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:

Redistributions or derivations of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.

Redistributions or derivative works in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice. This list of conditions and the following disclaimer must be reproduced in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

Neither the name of the copyright holder nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

this is the custom one

along with a big "THIS IS PROVIDED AS IS BLABLA" disclaimer

[crystal wren]

That one actually feels pretty MIT-compatible to me...

I honestly feel like the safest option would be getting the okay from the creator of this other thing to re-license it under MIT.

[red crest]

i just dont know how to properly indicate which parts of the code are under this license without literally going line by line to figure out which project it came from and writing a buncha line numbers/method names manually

[crystal wren]

Yeah, it would be a nightmare. Is asking for it to be re-licensed by the author an option at all?

[red crest]

likely not

[devout vault]

Is the original work of each project in their directory? It sounds like the answer is no?

If it was, you could license the smushes directly editing project A to be A’s license, and then B to be B’s license.

And then the separate glue would just need to be a license compatible with both

[red crest]

its two different projects that are their own implementations of the same final product and i used both as resources to create my own implenentation of that same final product
so neither project is actually forked or included, but i did use their source code for reference or reuse

[devout vault]

Ah, that is much trickier, yeah

[red crest]

(technically none of the code itself from one project is actually there, since its all in C++ and im using C#, but some things i do are definitely just taken from it and translated)

[devout vault]

How much reference vs reuse do you think there is, at least on an approximate level?

[red crest]

for the custom license one, not too much reuse, mostly just reference? and following along with their tutorial video series on writing it
for the MIT one, definitely significant reuse

[devout vault]

Is it possible to extract the reused custom license stuff to be in its own file/directory?

[dusty pollen]

I love slay the spire btw, even though I’m terrible at it

[red crest]

its probably possible, id have to double check that none of that stuff is in the same method as the other project

[devout vault]

I imagine it’s much more complicated from a legal perspective since they can influence each other in other ways, so I’m just thinking in a “average person trying their best” sort of way 😛

[red crest]

im already using partial classes for organization so i could partial them out probably, but im not 100% sure

[devout vault]

Hmm. The part about binary forms from the custom license also makes it tricky for the end result

[red crest]

probably a difficult question to really answer without seeing the repos in question too, i apologize for that, i just didnt wanna spoil my mod before its ready

[devout vault]

I would’ve done the same for 3d/vr if it were a smaller project, but being able to blab makes it much easier to make progress on

[red crest]

i was already probably gonna blab in another mutual server bc its hard not to feel proud of getting it to work

[frosty echo]

Why not just say the whole lot is subject to both licenses, i.e. MIT plus the custom conditions?

[red crest]

i just wasnt sure if that was like, legally acceptable to do it that way

[supple ether]

it's so good! I am not very good at it either, but I like to play with mods and do silly builds

[fleet wren]

the MIT license + similar permissive licenses only require that you reproduce the license + copyright notice

[frosty echo]

As far as I can see they both just say you need to.. ^

[devout vault]

I started on a Slay the Spire mod at one point

[fleet wren]

you don't actually need to keep your code under the same license and/or indicate which part of the code was under which license

[devout vault]

It was gonna be Kirby themed

[fleet wren]

as far as The Law is concerned you can relicense all your derivative code to AGPL if you want

[dusty pollen]

who’s your favourite to play btw?

[supple ether]

I thought about it for a while but then I heard StSII was happening and decided to just wait for that so I wouldn't have to deal with java

[supple ether]

vanilla? Defect for sure. Modded? Packmaster.

[devout vault]

This was quite some time ago, to be fair.

but also just pester Khloe for Chord access

I’m sure she’d love an actual tester since I get distracted too much to properly test it

[dusty pollen]

second vote for defect, I may have to play more of him until I get why

[fleet wren]

also this is my favorite license, notable for being the first and so far only OSS license to introduce an anti-attribution clause

maybe I will start relicensing all my mods to this

[supple ether]

alas, I am too busy working towards more immediate needs at the moment

[cinder karma]

I need to license my mods as this

"Please dont attribute this shit code to me"

"My current code isn't better either"

[red crest]

(sorry i was in another server oops)
i was planning on MITing mine at least anyway, just mostly didnt want to include their licenses in some improper form and have people look at it when i post the final mod in here and go "uh you're doing it wrong and this is code theft and we HATE you now" /hj
so really as long as this server thinks "just put both licenses and say they both apply to some parts of the code" is acceptable thats good enough for me its not like anyone outside this sphere is really gonna see it lol

[devout vault]

I had to look at what had that license. Honestly, what did I expect

Does rust really not allow multiple mutable pointers to the same address????

[fleet wren]

yes, it's a pretty core part of rust
it allows for, among other things, aggressive yet safe optimizations that's otherwise not possible in other languages
for example when you pass two mutable references of the same type to a function the rust compiler knows for sure those cannot point to the same memory area

you can get around it with runtime abstractions (RefCell, etc.)

[devout vault]

“Wild chickens IRL” was not on my Walmart bingo card

My mom said they’ve been around for a few years

[dusty pollen]

oh it’s their first message in the server

[cinder karma]

The chickens?

[waxen cliff]

Can a chicken even be old enough to have a discord account

[devout vault]

A chicken can even be old enough to drink (in theory)

[waxen cliff]

Well, not much of a difference between 13 and 16
-# depending on which laws you follow of course

[devout vault]

I was mainly thinking US laws (21), but is there anywhere that has it higher?

Oldest chicken was not old enough to rent a car here, though 😔

[waxen cliff]

Higher I don't know. Only lower

[devout vault]

According to wikipedia, the highest restriction is 25, but it seems pretty rare

Sorry super-old chicken 😔

(Specifically, only certain regions of India, it seems?)

[cinder karma]

One of my favorite scientific facts are the lifespan of birds

[devout vault]

I see atra is no longer a new years resolution (of any sort)

[cinder karma]

I once convinced my dad i couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays in North Carolina

[devout vault]

Are you knitting a bear plushie atra

[cinder karma]

I am indeed knitting atra as a bear plushie

[prisma flume]

daily win11 gripe: connecting my bluetooth headphones to my laptop after connecting to another device will keep the last-used volume level (usually ~10) UNTIL i change the volume, at which point it jumps to an ear-bursting 44

supposedly microsoft is going all-hands on improving windows 11 in the wake of all the negative press. i'll believe it when i see it

or rather when i can hear it after having my ears blown out by the bluetooth audio

[cinder karma]

Microsoft stock fell like 11% todau

Pity I own so much of it

[prisma flume]

strange times. intel and microsoft taking huge hits when no new competitors to their longtime flagship products have even emerged

[cinder karma]

Why did intel take a hit?

[prisma flume]

i don't know the details, i'd imagine to do with the faults and failures in their cpu lines, failure to return on investment for r&d, and at a guess their NPUs aren't selling

[cinder karma]

They're even for the day

[prisma flume]

surprised the stock is still on the up given i've only heard doom and gloom about their plans for the CPU market

[cinder karma]

I heard Nvidia is gonna use them as a fab

[prisma flume]

oh yeah i heard their GPU market entries were to have questionable long-term support

eagle-eyed readers will note i'm talking half out of my ass from things i've heard

[rain apex]

Year of Linux desktop trust

[prisma flume]

trust mentioned 🦀🦀 wait no

[rain apex]

Tbh i switched to an amd cpu for new pc and could not tell you anything different about the experience, given that it's still x86

[devout vault]

thankfully no

[rain apex]

Amdgpu is a little haunted but I'm 68% sure that's Wayland's fault

[cinder karma]

Intel builds gpus?

[devout vault]

I think it's their cards with the integrated GPUs, not standalone ones

[rain apex]

Intel made a dedicated gpu yea, arc

[devout vault]

...huh

[safe dragon]

yeah a fairly recent thing

as in a few years ago

[rain apex]

Idk if they r making more probably not?

[safe dragon]

considering their deal with Nvidia I doubt it

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7156 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1466579610056786207)

[cinder karma]

Truist is an okay bank

[safe dragon]

for cpus it really doesn't matter that much. They all work basically exactly how they should

[prisma flume]

ah but there's all the nuance these days with the p-cores and e-cores and graphics cache and whatnot

and indeed when they don't work, how they should or otherwise, with whatever drama the latest intel generations had

[devout vault]

or when they fry themselves

I still haven't done whatever updates I was supposed to do for that

[prisma flume]

i thought that was more of a discrete gpu problem

[devout vault]

Oh I was talking about the intel cpu thing

Sometimes prism launcher will yell at me about it

[cinder karma]

You need to get a monogame plushie

Ask your cat which game dev platform u should use

Also a unity one

[prisma flume]

comfooter. comshoeter. cornputer.

[devout vault]

ew

[cinder karma]

Unreal?

[devout vault]

Even ew-er

He just knocked something metallic, and I can't find what

[prisma flume]

does ue even have a mascot or is it just the classic stylised unreal logo

[devout vault]

Oh, one of those little twisty things for assembling stuff

[devout vault]

I was going to ask the same about monogame

[prisma flume]

a screwdriver?

[devout vault]

No, not that fancy

The semi-disposable L shaped things that you get when you purchase some things

[prisma flume]

an allen key?

[devout vault]

Maybe

Monogame does not appear to have a mascot

[prisma flume]

i think a novelty giant foam fist captures the essence of the logo

or am i the only person who sees it as that

[devout vault]

I can see it, yeah

I restarted my computer despite not needing to, in vain hope of it fixing my hot reload problems

Alas

It compiles fine normally, why are you mad

...and it's working now

The fix was supposedly changing

<HintPath>$(SolutionDir)_external\MonoScene\src\MonoScene.Pipeline.GLTF\bin\Debug\net6.0\MonoScene.Pipeline.GLTF.dll</HintPath>

to

<HintPath>$(SolutionDir)_external\MonoScene\src\MonoScene.Pipeline.GLTF\bin\$(Configuration)\net6.0\MonoScene.Pipeline.GLTF.dll</HintPath>

But I don't buy that for a second. Clearly, shenanigans are afoot

[edgy lion]

Pretty sure this is https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause

Honestly when I saw this on another project I also thought it was a custom license (because why wouldn't it include its name)
Until GitHub's license viewer told me it's BSD-3-Clause (which I'd heard of but couldn't remember its content)

[red crest]

huh, yeah, that is an exact match i wonder why they just... renamed it
i said it was custom bc they titled it "License (<their username initials>-3)"

oh its not exact actually

BSD only covers redistributions, theirs covers redistributions and derivations in those 3 conditions

since the preceding statement says "with or without modification" im not sure how much that matters, but it is a difference

[steel kraken]

I guess its just to potentially guard against a derived work but not being a modification

[red crest]

which is pretty much what applies to me here, so fair enough

[devout vault]

Who wants to take bets on how badly my concave shape -> convex hull algorithm will break when it encounters real world data? I didn't reference an existing implementation of any sort for it, I kinda just made it up. 😛

It did work on my test data though.

            Vector2[] concave =
            [
                new( -3, -3 ),
                new( -2, -2 ),
                new( -1, -1 ),
                new(  1, -1 ),
                new(  2, -2 ),
                new(  3, -3 ),
                new(  3,  3 ),
                new(  0,  1 ),
                new( -3,  3 ),
            ];

-        convex    {Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2[4]}    Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2[]
+        [0]    -3  -3    Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2
+        [1]    3  -3    Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2
+        [2]    3  3    Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2
+        [3]    -3  3    Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Vector2

[cinder karma]

can you try

[0,4], [1,1], [4,0], [0, -4], [-4, 0]

can your points cross?

is this legal?

[devout vault]

So far, three different parts it crashed at. 😛 (First two were simple to fix, need to trace the third)

[devout vault]

no

[devout vault]

and no

I mean, maybe it'd work if you're lucky, I dunno

[cinder karma]

so, there's a trick

I'm trying to remember enough math to make the trick work and trig is hard at this hour okay

hang on, the first piece of paper I grabbed has my school name on it

let me find some clean paper

[devout vault]

I mean I imagine I could count the rotation as I go, and if it exceeds a circle too early, there are problems

But for my use case I don't need to case, I think

wait

nevermind

okay do wait

The comments at the top are wrong, it's actually CW/+Y, not CCW/+Y

I had to double check what my test data did

Okay, so the third crash is irrelevant. (The first two were array accesses that weren't wrapped properly)

[devout vault]

actually this is incorrect but reversing did work so what

visualizing things in my brain is hard

[steel kraken]

this is a common problem in geospatial systems
Heres some microsoft docs with some example valid and invalid polygons
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/spatial/polygon?view=sql-server-ver17#valid-instances

[devout vault]

Yeah I'm visualizing the winding order

[steel kraken]

ring orientation is very important

[devout vault]

Okay yeah atra gave me CW and my data was CCW, so not a bug besides the unwrapped array indices

[steel kraken]

In geospatial systems if you get it wrong its a case of a lion cage at a zoo, and the entire world is inside the cage and only the lion is outside of the cage

[devout vault]

Honestly I'm just gonna throw this at what I wanted it for (possibly tomorrow or another day?), and if it doesn't work I'll look for a proper implementation instead of my homegrown one

[cinder karma]

I'm pretty sure if you go around yeeting the points that have an interior angle > pi

and do it repeatedly

until no angles are thus, it's the convex hull

[devout vault]

Sounds much more intelligent and proper than what I came up with

(and sounds reasonably correct at first glance)

[cinder karma]

this isn't mathematically proven, I drew a bunch of examples on a sheet of paper and havent' broken it yet

[cinder karma]

your comment said cw :(

[devout vault]

It says CCW with Y=up, but CW with Y=down should also work

(Mainly a note for me because stardew normally has Y=down)

[cinder karma]

hmmm I broke my algorithm I think

oh oops I cant' read

or not,

hmmm I think with enough zig zags in an odd order I can break this

actually I like this one, ignore me

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algorithm_Implementation/Geometry/Convex_hull/Monotone_chain

[steel kraken]

I've stopped caring about going down the rabbit hole further, but a pure C# implementation of doing the validation is https://github.com/NetTopologySuite/NetTopologySuite/blob/develop/src/NetTopologySuite/Operation/Valid/IsValidOp.cs#L283-L309

[cinder karma]

casey's seems to be like the gift wrapping algo

[steel kraken]

past me (2022 or 2023) went deep in the rabbit hole as I had to work with geospatial polygons a bunch and getting the inside/outside right was hard.

[cinder karma]

so where I tried to break mine was mostly with star-shaped and staircases

but I think the top-hull/bottom-hull makes a heck of a lot more sense.

alright, broke my algorithm,

if you want to know

this shape

this explains a lot as to why the ones on wikipedia do not constrain the points to be non-overlapping

the removal eventually overlapped two lines

[steel kraken]

get flashbacks seeing a polygon with that style of shape

[cinder karma]

what, music?

earphones?

[steel kraken]

the legally distinct nested polygon but with a small enough gap to let the inner polygon still see the outside and be one linear ring and not two

[cinder karma]

:P

but it make sense why teh algos made by the real mathspeople don't constrain the points to make a valid polygon

because if you assume that...

while you're going around yeeting points, you eventually break that constraint

[devout vault]

That sounds very for whenever I try to use what I wrote

[steel kraken]

spatial data is an area I give up and use a library, I treat it like cryptography

Big oil already paid for the spatial libraries to be made, I may as well use them

[devout vault]

...does hot reload not understand extension properties

With all the random problems, it's starting to seem like .net hates me

[steel kraken]

it was kinda crazy how much of my old work was directly built off the foundations that big oil made.

pretty much all digital geospatial stuff is built off the knowledge from EPSG (European Petroleum Survey Group).

and a lot of IoT is built on top of MQTT which was originally made to remotely monitor oil pipelines

[edgy lion]

That's interesting

Which gets me thinking... What is the BSD 3 clause licensed under for modifications to itself...

[steel kraken]

I would assume that the licence itself isn't copyrightable and so doesn't need a license

[little furnace]

A license sure is copyrightable. The GPL is protected so that modifications are not allowed. The BSD licenses however don't have a copyright, you're right about that.

[worn remnant]

brb writing a license for my license /lh

[cinder karma]

Since when was typescript migrating to go

[thin estuary]

can a license by licensed by itself, similar to a programming language being used to write a compiler for said programming language

[uncut seal]

aw, I missed a discussion about convex hull...

I had a whole college level project about it, and it basically has 2 solutions when working on a set of points with no constraint:

• wrapping/Jarvis algorithm in O(nh) with h the number of points in the hull
• shell algorithm or variants in O(n ln(n)) (complexity of sorting), my favorite variant is the Graham Scan because it only requires one pass at the end

I also made a 3D version of Jarvis' algorithm, with cool visualization if anyone's interested: https://github.com/Leroymilo/3D_hull_builder

[devout vault]

Sounds like complicated stuff that I was too lazy to look up to begin with (hence writing my own)

[cinder karma]

I like the rainfall method because it makes a lot of intuitive sense

That said, I think the question really is more

1. Can we constrain the problem to only valid polygons

2. This is actually for stardew so the grid is quantized, does this unlock further optimization

[devout vault]

Well, when I use it, I'm going to be doing a flood fill from outside the map, and then generate the convex hull from what it can't reach (taking only the outer tiles, of course). And then expand the result outwards a bit before Shenanigans™

[cinder karma]

It's spiral patterns i think that may cause issue

[spring sparrow]

Hi all, I've been playing modded sdv for a long time now, and now I have an idea for a mod. So I figured I'd lurk and learn! Only made pixel art once and programming never, so this will be a journey.

[worn remnant]

welcome aboard! only, if you want to learn more about modmaking, #making-mods-general is the place for that. this is the general non-stardew programmer stuff channel

you're welcome to hang out here, of course. it's just (mostly) not about modding stardew

[crystal wren]

Mod idea: Make a mod to make that map less of a pain, but actually make it significantly more of a pain.

[devout vault]

That being said it doesn't look like the spiral will actually be an issue, maybe:

[devout vault]

Like the terraria "no traps" seed that actually adds more traps!

[crystal wren]

Exactly!

[devout vault]

The main issue might be those floating tiles on the left, actually, since it's no longer one polygon

[zenith wharf]

A challenge for the players: I'm outta here!!

[rain apex]

Is the 3dvr crimes escaping out of containment

[devout vault]

Of course I can special case any weird floors, but if a lot of them have weird floating tiles like that, I'll need to come up with an additional heuristic

[worn remnant]

the challenge of floor 19 is how fast can you dig a staircase out of your backpack and slam it onto the floor

[devout vault]

Probably just draw a line between the island and the nearest part of the main polygon, like I've seen for some proc gen dungeon stuff

(I've contemplated proc gen mines before is why I remember this 😛 )

(Still want to do that)

[devout vault]

I never have staircases, especially early game. So it's actually "dig a staircase by breaking stones" for me

[rain apex]

Waveform collapse is 3many maffs 4 me

[devout vault]

This isn't waveform collapse 😛

It's just drawing a line from it to the main island, basically

[rain apex]

Oh is there more info on this algo

[devout vault]

Somewhere, yes

A random post on reddit, if I remember right

Probably one of the roguelike dev subreddits

Oh, one of my old note docs has the link to said random post on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/dx95df/cave_generation_using_bsp_and_cellular_automaton/

[rain apex]

My ambitions are much smaller I just want volcano dungeon sort of map layout tool

[devout vault]

(I have two procgen mine docs from different iterations on the idea - one is mainly just procgen once a week or something, but another has it much larger and "open-world-y" and doesn't reset unless the palyer initiates it. Resources/monsters will gradually replenish, though)

[dusty pollen]

tis-100 update: two net levels from 100% it (all puzzles + achievements)

I can definitely see why 100%ing the net levels is the rarest achievement, some of these are tough if there was a way to do the ||prime factors one|| without ||hard coding a list of all the primes up to 100|| it was definitely beyond me

[devout vault]

I really should try a zachtronics game at some point

But I’m worried it’ll fill my programming itch, meaning I’ll do that instead of work on fun projects 😛

[dusty pollen]

this one is just fictional assembly

[devout vault]

Yeah, which is even worse than something like Opus Magnum, since it's even closer to normal programming

[cinder karma]

What about volcanoes

[devout vault]

It might be fine, we'll see. (Getting a bit too on topic, so I'll move to the crime thread)

[cinder karma]

The nerd posted!

https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM?si=VD1dXDEbPg09DzuN

[devout vault]

Just used the MS paint layers for the first time today, and apparently there is a way to show the transparency

So I guess the issue is that select all + copy does the current layer

But this button's popup has a clipboard option

[crystal wren]

Does it not support the usual ctrl + shift + C to copy everything?

[devout vault]

Is that a standard?

It does appear to support that for the layers, but not the background-specific one at the bottom

Canvas

Ctrl+C on layer 2

...okay maybe it's just dependent on if the background is hidden, because this is ctrl+shift+C

okay yeah, same but with background hidden

I tried out layers because I'm trying to visualize something complicated with multiple test cases, and I want the "base" to be separate from each test case

(visualizing for debugging purposes)

minus the explanatory text because being vague is fun (also WIP)

[devout vault]

...however, control+A will show hidden layers???

Wait no, it will show the current layer if it's already hidden

[uncut seal]

prevents stairs placement/generation anywhere but a few tiles in the center

[dusty pollen]

what if your vr mod just removed it from the mine level pool

doesn’t that sound fun

[uncut seal]

wait, what is the actual use-case context, I really want to work on this for some reason

maybe I'm getting withdrawals from not doing enough competitive programming

[crystal wren]

Oh, that is heinously evil.

I love it.

[uncut seal]

I recently learned that I get much better ideas after playing the game for a while, seems like putting myself in place of the player gives me an important perspective

[devout vault]

Aiming for the base VR mod to be able to play with vanilla players 😔

[dusty pollen]

just change it for them too

(how do the mines work in mp anyway. can you be on the same mine level)

[devout vault]

Like, vanilla MP?????

Yes??????

adds a note to not expect MP support from iro mods

[dusty pollen]

it’s above audio support at least!

[cinder karma]

(Tbh I feel this too.)

The longer I go without playing the game, the more I forget

[devout vault]

I wish I could do something like container[someIndexOutOfBounds] ?? defaultValue

Something like ?? but for out of bounds or operations that failed

[cinder karma]

Linq lol

[devout vault]

Alas, I'm stuck in linq-is-too-slow-for-some-cases land 😔

[cinder karma]

container.ElementAtOrDefault(3) ??

Is fine in modern c# and with Ilist

[devout vault]

Not as succint though 😔

But also: This is for the "support .NetFramework and .Net6.0" land of pain

[cinder karma]

Net Framework is where I dip, lol

[prisma flume]

messages written by fish

[cinder karma]

Well I'm as dumb as a fish so

[dusty pollen]

so close to 100%

[cinder karma]

A lot have weird floating tiles like that :P

[open garden]

I've been thinking of biting the bullet and figuring out how to make a private github repo so that I can more easily save multiple versions of my mod (and put my github account to some actual use beyond the occasional download).

Github has not been the most intuitive site for me to grasp tho, which is part of why I'm only seriously thinking about it now 😅

Also just wanted to share this win with someone, but I had many errors trying to put some new maps in the game and I solved the tmx issues myself!! (with the help of the smapi json validator)

I know how to edit tmx code for basic issues now, and I'm really happy about it!

[rain apex]

Did u mean to #making-mods-general

[safe dragon]

good luck with ur source control woes

[little furnace]

Yeah, sure can. Creative Commons licenses are licensed under CC0 (which isn't really a license but it still counts because the definition of "work in public domain" and a short-hand can be licensed, and as such said definition refers to itself when it comes to the copyright of the definition).

[dusty pollen]

those two net puzzles nearly had me stumped but I finally 100%ed tis-100

didn't try matching the histograms in this one though

(atra you would like this game)

[cinder karma]

Sorry I'm only allowed to buy one game every third year

[zenith wharf]

[uncut seal]

you should put Space Warlord Baby Trading Simulator on your waiting list, it's worth a spot.

[cinder karma]

Five words not put together before

What

(We will play the alchemy game first, then spend two or more years building my own solar panels.)

[uncut seal]

well, it's the successor of Space Warlord Organ Trading Simulator, so it's not too much of a weird word succession as far as precedent go

look it up even if you don't intend to play it, it's a really fun concept

[dusty pollen]

I don’t usually mind pings but I don’t think they’re really necessary when I’m both in chat and it’s only a reaction emote 😅

[zenith wharf]

Sorry

Congratulations!!

[devout vault]

TIL discord will do this if you're getting close to the message character limit (I assume the Nitro symbol was because I was reaching the even-with-Nitro character limit)

[devout vault]

Does anybody know why git bash on Windows will sometimes put some before/after pasting something? I can't intentionally reproduce it, but it's something like: ⁨⁨^[[the_thing_I_actually_pasted]⁩⁩ (I'm not 100% sure on that being the syntax, but I know ⁨⁨^⁩⁩ and ⁨⁨[⁩⁩ are involved)

When paste works correctly it highlights the background of what was pasted, and when it doesn't work correctly some of the character at the beginning are erased "together" rather than character-by-character. So I assume it's the background highlight control codes messing up during pasting, but I don't know why it happens

[dusty pollen]

^[ makes me suspect you accidentally hit a ctrl+key sequence other than ctrl+v while pasting

but could be a colour control code too

[devout vault]

So it's not Ctrl+V, it's Shift+Insert. For some reason.

But every time I try Ctrl+V first, and that appears to be the cause

Ex.

[dusty pollen]

hmm

[devout vault]

vs when I don't do Ctrl+V first

So mystery solved, I guess?

[dusty pollen]

you shouldn’t put your pc on top of a cat

too heavy

[devout vault]

smh It's the framework version of Cattop

Cattop is my Mac laptop

[dusty pollen]

damn I just named my laptops after norse mythology place names and then ran out of ones I remember and can spell after two

[devout vault]

(I got it right before the M1 type stuff came out, so it's an intel Mac 😛 )

[dusty pollen]

(and I’m not calling any of my pcs midgard)

[devout vault]

I use reuse the same name usually since I've usually outright replaced them rather than keep multiple around

But since I have both the framework and mac right now, the framework needed a unique-r name

Even if only technically

[dusty pollen]

I have two laptops and a desktop but the desktop is a windows one with a default host name/pc name/device name/whatever windows calls it

[devout vault]

...brb renaming my PC to another thing I just came up with

[dusty pollen]

(laptops are asgard and valhalla)

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7176 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1467225991574327358)

[cinder karma]

Perfect

[safe dragon]

mine are all some variation on bubo-bubo (a Eurasian eagle owl)

[cinder karma]

That's precise

Mine are greek mythology

Athena and Artemis

[safe dragon]

same as my sister then

I know she has one called Nyx

not necessarily greek tho

I know she has one called called nehallenia

which is a more local belgium-ish area goddess

[regal ingot]

The terminal emulator is sending the ⁨^V⁩ down to bash, where it means "treat the next charater of input literally". The ⁨V⁩ is actually configurable by setting the ⁨lnext⁩ property of the tty (e.g., via ⁨stty⁩), but you don't want to go down that rabbit hole (or maybe you do, but it's not relevant to this particular issue). The shift-insert is handled by the terminal emulator, which apparently puts the escape codes for inverse video around the text that it sends down to bash. But since ⁨^V⁩ said to treat the next character literally, it doesn't process the escape as starting an escape code but instead displays it (as ⁨^[⁩).
Apparently many terminal emulators will recognize control-shift-V as paste, but I personally wouldn't find that helpful. I'd see if there's any setting for the terminal emulator to handle ⁨^V⁩ itself instead of sending it to the terminal. Because otherwise this would drive me insane any time I wanted to paste something into the terminal.

tl;dr: the thing not doing what you want is the terminal emulator, not bash (or git bash) running inside it.

If you can't make the terminal emulator do what you want with ⁨^V⁩ then it should be possible to change the bash and tty settings so that ⁨^V⁩ does nothing rather than screwing up the actual paste that you are about to do when the ⁨^V⁩ didn't work. That's left as an exercise for the reader 🙂

[devout vault]

Well, it's the msys terminal thing. It apparently has multiple options to act like, and ⁨xterm⁩ is the default

But no way to change the keybinds for it

You can disable copy and paste, but not change it, or directly change the ctrl+V stuff through the UI (that I could find)

[regal ingot]

What's under the "Text" options?

[devout vault]

Appearance stuff - font, locale, emojis

[little furnace]

Can't you just use a different terminal emulator?

Windows Terminal automatically adds a profile for Git Bash when it's installed.

[devout vault]

That’s a lot of muscle memory needing overwriting 😛 (even it’s mainly pressing windows key -> typing git bash)

[regal ingot]

In fairness to the terminal emulator, those keys do mean something to the shell (although that's more obvious for ⁨^C⁩ than ⁨^V⁩), so whatever behavior it has is probably going to be not what you want at least some of the time.

[hasty sinew]

Xterm maybe the worst thing to ever exist
It’s 2026, we can move to the modern updated CMD/windows terminal

[little furnace]

Pretty sure you can change the shortcut to open Windows Terminal instead.

wt new-tab --profile "Git Bash"

Right-click on the shortcut, select "Open in File Manager" (or whatever it's called), open Properties and enter this for the target.

[devout vault]

I'm also not interested in using windows terminal 😛

Too used to linux-style command stuff, and don't wanna bother with WSL

[steel kraken]

tbh wsl is much better than the frankenstein mismatch of msys/bit bash

[cinder karma]

What about actual Linux

[devout vault]

no

[little furnace]

Windows Terminal is only the emulator though. And it supports Linux-style stuff much better than conhost. Or do you use another alternative terminal? Anything is better than the old Windows default.

[devout vault]

gkt bash, like I said before

[little furnace]

Isn't that only the Shell?

Oh, okay, sorry. It ships with it's own version of Mintty. I thought it used conhost. Sorry about that. I still wouldn't recommend Mintty, but that's me.

Kitty isn't available for Windows, otherwise I would have recommended that based on its name alone.

[dusty pollen]

(it's also just a reliable one tbh, I find it very rare that I'm irritated by my terminal nowadays now that I use it)

[cinder karma]

Terminals have different reliability?

[dusty pollen]

xterm is very reliable at making me want to take a brick to my computer

[cinder karma]

.....terminals have different reliability?????

I dont think I've used smth not default

[little furnace]

Some terminals might handle non-standard stuff badly. That is kinda not being reliable.

[dusty pollen]

xterm is just picky

kitty is xterm based but fixes a lot of that

idk if reliable was the right word, more like "reliable within my use case in which I probably do many things wrong"

[little furnace]

I dislike the Kitty dev (who has said stuff like "Sending a bug report isn't you being helpful, it's you thinking you have an issue and demanding of us to fix it"), but the terminal is good.

[dusty pollen]

I have not looked into the dev and generally try not to

[cinder karma]

Oh u see i just think I'm bad at bash

Which is true

I am so bad at bash

[dusty pollen]

considering the track record of foss devs isn't stellar

[little furnace]

Unfortunately. But I feel like this is slowly changing.

[dusty pollen]

(but I also kind of get that specific thing he's saying? he said it in a shitty way and took it to the other extreme but submitting a bug report isn't selfless, it's at best mutually beneficial IF it's accurate, non-redundant and has all necessary detail)

(and if even one of those things aren't true it's not even that useful to the dev)

(idk anything else about him though so I'm guessing that was one example of many)

[little furnace]

I think it was one example. And I also think it can be selfless. Sometimes software you tried doesn't work for you, but if you find a bug, you might also report it before uninstalling and trying other software. At least I feel that way.

[dusty pollen]

I guess that's true? but I think it's rare, and somewhat likely not to end up being helpful regardless but then again modding may have just made me much more sympathetic to anyone fielding bug reports for free software

you'd be truly amazed at the things people report

and the attitude they often have

[devout vault]

.q 6450

[heavy dagger]

#6450

I lost five of my husbands and the sky is falling

• a DM kittycatcasey received (after machine-transla (Jump)

Jun 25, 2025, 7:29 AM

[little furnace]

I'm not saying that it isn't common, but I also think that many bug reports are with good intentions. But maybe I'm just naive.

[indigo mist]

@little furnace You leveled up to Farmer. You're now a prettier shade of blue. Thanks for sticking around!

[little furnace]

Huh. Does that mean I could finally get the pufferchick thingy?

[cinder karma]

I think

[dusty pollen]

don't get me wrong, like I said, he took it to the other extreme, I just think it's a give and a take you know

[dusty pollen]

mod author? yeah as long as you have published mods that abide by server rules

[little furnace]

I have, I'm just too lazy to do this now. Maybe tomorrow... or next month...

[dusty pollen]

it's just a single ping to the junis! if you do it in #making-mods-general they may even rush to get to be the one who does it first

[devout vault]

You have to add yourself to the wiki too!

[dusty pollen]

three lines of a wiki edit!

[little furnace]

... I'm in the middle of a Game Jam and it's past 4am... I feel like tomorrow might be better... or at the end of the Jam...

[devout vault]

If you don't have the wiki entry, you(r role) might get smited

Also found this while looking for that

.q 6573

[heavy dagger]

#6573

I have a new respect for PHP

• Pathoschild (Jump)

Aug 19, 2025, 8:24 PM

[cinder karma]

I hate how my earphones will go to "low battery" when i just want to listen to a podcast smh

[little furnace]

How old are they? Mine are five years old and the battery lasts only about an hour now. Need to replace it soon.

[devout vault]

It seems we have more #programmers-off-topic regulars infiltrating the ranks of the junimos

[dark veldt]

[steel kraken]

I wouldn't mind getting the green role if it involved none of the obligations of doing moderation and having to be in more than 2 channels

[devout vault]

responsibility

[steel kraken]

having run minecraft servers 15 years ago, owning the moddota discord and having admin rank in steamdb is enough for me

but if the choice is having the junimo role but needing to actually read what happens in #stardew-valley and #stardew-spoilers or staying a cheeto for another ~3-4 years and eventually become the cheeto legend role, I'll do that 3-4 year wait

[devout vault]

500 levels to go! (for me)

[steel kraken]

and then they have to invent the developer legend role

[devout vault]

Arguably, Pathos should already have said role

[steel kraken]

he already has his bespoke devoschild role being half developer half junimo, and I think theres already precedence that junimo > legend

[devout vault]

I did say 'arguably'

[hardy jewel]

I’m afraid iro might have died

Death By Mould

they shall be missed

[safe dragon]

rest in peace

[cinder karma]

It's a great role!

It reminds me of sour patch kids

Or watermelon

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7192 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1467400976695824497)

[cinder karma]

I think Casey should just get a fun role regardless

Code criminal

[devout vault]

…iro and ichor now have different name colors

Gone are (some of) the days of confusion.

[dusty pollen]

I am very mould sensitive

[terse galleon]

you got mountain dewed

...mountain done?

[cyan shadow]

Mountain done dewed

[supple ether]

I used to moderate a small fan discord and that convinced me that I wasn't a good fit for that kind of thing. At least at the time. Things may be different now.

Even so, can't say I'm eager for that kind of responsibility again

[cyan shadow]

I'm a very good fit for moderating when I have the spoons, which I do not at the moment

[devout vault]

There's a reason I ended up deleting my old discord server

[cyan shadow]

[robust quarry]

ohhh didn't know you had a server once!

[devout vault]

Most people probably don't to be honest

Made it in 2020, from the looks of it

Basically only made it so there was something to actually offer for the not-lowest patreon tiers (which I had also had back then)

[cinder karma]

Would you consider having a patron again

[devout vault]

I'd feel obligated to provide support, so no 😛

[crystal wren]

I feel that without the Patreon!

[supple ether]

I can't start a patreon bc then I'd have to acknowledge my bastard child hd portraits /lh

[crystal wren]

Another reason not to start one: holy hell, is the UX god awful on the user's side. I can't imagine how much worse it is on the creators' side.

[devout vault]

Top tier benefit
Support for any* of my mods
-# * excluding it that shall not be named

(And/or just have the only tier including that mod be like $10000/mo or something)

[cobalt shore]

Patreon refused to acknowledge that I am me because my hair color is different than in my ID

so, lol, just gonna keep not having a patreon XD

[oblique harness]

oh my god 😭

[pliant snow]

hi, welcome to: i probably should make a vlan for my sketchy IoT device, how the fuck do I add a vlan with this router

I shall be your host

[safe dragon]

good luck

[pliant snow]

I'm not sure I'm going to be going with this custom firmware when it comes to replacing this router

[safe dragon]

build ur own

[pliant snow]

my coworker was talking about replacing his ubiquity one and selling it, I'm hoping he'll sell it to me...

[cinder karma]

Ooh!

[cinder karma]

How about bug bounty

[devout vault]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Y1gczEk2rbM

Really need to catch up on watching that..

[terse galleon]

god same i love dropout so much

[hardy jewel]

dropout is incredible

[pliant snow]

This was a really funny episode

[devout vault]

most of them are

I’m pretty behind on MSN

[cinder karma]

Ooh, new compiler explorer talk!!!

[safe dragon]

godbolt 2

[pliant snow]

godbolts

[devout vault]

god bolted

got tired of our nonsense

[cinder karma]

In my head you're actually referring to a cat of sorts

[devout vault]

God being a cat would explain some things. Chief of which being "cats are the best thing ever"

The ancient egyptians were right to worship cats

[worn remnant]

god being my cat would explain some things (he's an imbecile)

[devout vault]

Every cat is a manifestation of divinity, hence why they have one braincell at most - the amount of brain cells couldn't keep up with the amount of cats, and so there weren't enough to go around

[rain apex]

Legg

[devout vault]

And earr

Two, even

[crystal wren]

https://youtu.be/PL9iMPx9CpQ?t=63

[fleet wren]

look at that sumptuous chicken wing

[oblique harness]

i rarely understand what you guys are talking about most of the time but finally, there's a topic i have some knowledge on. cat

[safe dragon]

cat is a good topic

[oblique harness]

i fully agree

[oblique harness]

chu i didnt know you had a cat

[rain apex]

No it's my friend's friend's cat

The blue cat is Simba and my friend's actual cat

The tux is Bruno and staying over (catsitting)

[cinder karma]

Adorable

Making friends

[rain apex]

They r fighting

[cinder karma]

@devout vault pls observe

[rain apex]

Simba used to be fatter but now i can actually feel his bones

This is a good thing

He was overweight b4

Now he's convenient weight to steal (!)

It's hard to see in static photos but Bruno is like distinguished lady (male)

He is cautious of me tho no petting allowed

[devout vault]

👀

[crystal wren]

Oh no, I would die a little (a lot) inside.

[devout vault]

At least he is gracing you with his presence

[rain apex]

Simba let me pet him and lift him no problem

I think it's a rescue cat vs house cat from birth thing

[dusty pollen]

maybe that’s the issue. you’re picking sides in this battle

[devout vault]

Some cats just have different preferences

Mozart loves attention, but will squirm if you try to hold him

[rain apex]

I gotta side with the winner obviously

[devout vault]

All cats are winners

And I don't mean that in a participation award sense. I mean they all tie for first place

(except for Kirby, who was a step ahead of all other cats, of course)

[oblique harness]

hello people of programmers-off-topic, please perceive my cats.
goodbye
goodbye people of programmers-off-topic

when did i type goodbye twice

[lyric bloom]

"Based on these guidelines, a subclass should never directly access any hidden attribute or method of a superclass [i.e., a subclass should not have special rights to the properties of its superclass(es)]. If direct access to the nonvisible attributes and methods of a superclass by its subclass is allowed—and this is permitted in most object-oriented programming languages—and a modification to the superclass is made, then owing to the connascence between the subclass and its superclass, it is likely that a modification to the subclass also is required.26 In other words, the subclass has access to something across an encapsulation boundary (the class boundary between the subclass and the superclass). Practically speaking, you should maximize the cohesion (connascence) within an encapsulation boundary and minimize the coupling (connascence) between the encapsulation boundaries." Sometimes I feel textbooks are here just to inflict Confusion.

[rain apex]

Is this some kinda python programming book

It seems to be describing stuff enforced by access modifiers in other languages

[lyric bloom]

nope, systems analysis textbook

[fleet wren]

sounds like we should just cast away the yolk of OOP and use composition over inheritance

I use Rust btw

I have been informed that the word is spelled "yoke". in light of this new knowledge I have opted to not correct the typo

[cinder karma]

Do u use rust professionally

[fleet wren]

like all true rust fans, I ||don't||

[dusty pollen]

I feel like the author wrote that purely to feel smart ngl because 90% of that feels like unnecessary keywords

[cinder karma]

Selph we should make our own company

Just so we can say we use rust professionally

Revenue: $20 (from mom)

[rain apex]

I wish proc macros would work in my vsc

[dusty pollen]

I'll contribute 10 dp which is a whole US cent

[fleet wren]

I can provide dynamic top-down integration via synergistic alignment with our strategic long term business goals

[cinder karma]

Look we can just make the same 20 bucks go around in a circle

It works for Nvidia it works for us

[lyric bloom]

even my professor is like "yeah, uh.. the book is unneccesarily dense."

the fun bit:

the c hapter questions may not come fro mthe text

so uh.. the author expects you to digest the chapter and synthesize

and I'm very "who did you write to!"

[devout vault]

Use Rust for a Stardew mod so you can say you’re innovating in trending development workflows

Optionally using https://github.com/FractalFir/rustc_codegen_clr

The streaming service price increase roulette has hit Crunchyroll this time 😔

[steel kraken]

I'll need to get a crunchyroll subscription soon

[cinder karma]

whyyyyyyyy

(No context given)

[devout vault]

atra hates crunchy rolls, confirmed

[fleet wren]

I prefer fresh rolls (preferably shrimp)

[little furnace]

I really like crunchy rolls, but I don't understand why anyone would pay for a subscription for them.

[cinder karma]

Maybe for the HEB ones

Arghsocjwbjsihfhejdxbjwd

I'm just throwing a fit over "why is this like THIS" for about nine different things at the same time

[steel kraken]

Frieren season 2

[little furnace]

Is that your password? I recommend adding special characters.

[little furnace]

I hope they tone down the sexual humor a bit. It's one of the few anime shows I liked, but even then it had too much weird sexual humor sometimes.

[prisma flume]

the benefit of only watching 30~60 year old tv shows is i never have to pay for these stupid service subscriptions 🙂‍↕️

[little furnace]

How so? Do you have them as DVD or VCR?

Because usually they are still copyright-protected and get taken down from illegal sources.

[prisma flume]

well for one i'm just a short ride from a library that has a whole bunch of them on dvd hahah

[supple ether]

There are alternatives available

I think

I haven't used crubchyroll in ages but from what I remember they usually only have exclusivity for dubs

Looks like it's also on hulu, prime, and Netflix if you're outside the us. If you are in the us you can probably trick it with a vpn

[cinder karma]

I'm too lazy to own a tv

[cinder karma]

whyyyyyyyyyyyty

Why, the lament

[sand frost]

That’s how I feel about all my leg muscles

[cinder karma]

Oh no

[sand frost]

They went cross country skiing yesterday

Also with me

We did 3 miles in 2 hours (with lunch)

[steel kraken]

it only exists if its dub, but netflix AU only has season 1

[cinder karma]

Frankly I would be more amazed if your leg muscles went skiing without u

looking through page after page of "gentle" dentists, I wonder if I can find a mean dentist who will charge me less :(

[safe dragon]

how do u hack notepad++

does it have an internet connection I'm not aware of

time to Google

ah it's their automatic update service

[lethal walrus]

yeah autoupdates with broken/non existant signature validation

[dusty pollen]

and it went unnoticed for so long because it was quite targeted

[safe dragon]

smh my notepad++ api key storage

my work pc hasn't yelled at me yet to update

[lethal walrus]

quite interesting to read how it does its doings https://www.rapid7.com/blog/post/tr-chrysalis-backdoor-dive-into-lotus-blossoms-toolkit/

[steel kraken]

that article afaik is what happens with the malicious build and not how the hosting provider itself got pwned

[dusty pollen]

the notepad++ dev blames their hosting provider, but I think "improperly implemented update signature checks" are a pretty big factor here

[safe dragon]

One sample, “ConsoleApplication2.exe”

[lethal walrus]

correct

[steel kraken]

I wish someone like LetsEncrypt expanded into code signing

the fact there aren't good options for opensource projects is frustrating

[dusty pollen]

tbh I think relying on your remote file being the right one because your cloud provider shouldn't be compromised seems like an issue regardless, because what if the attack was at the DNS level instead

[safe dragon]

tbh that code had probably been there for 20 years

[dusty pollen]

let's play "who's older, me or this line of code" /lh

(I am not twenty dw)

[safe dragon]

I've lost that game quite a few times at my current job and I'm about to turn 29

[dusty pollen]

there are quite a few people on this server that would lose that game to things on nexus

considering it's nearly as old as I am

[steel kraken]

At my company we have "strategic" systems, "Legacy" systems and "Heritage" systems because they predated all of legacy and will outlast most of legacy

Still got some mainframe kicking around

[dusty pollen]

ah, so your company names systems kind of like how historians do eras

"contemporary", "modern"

[steel kraken]

the heritage label is technically an informal classification

[dusty pollen]

once you need the next one you come up with another synonym /lh

[steel kraken]

but its a useful classification because most of strategic is a myth that isn't fit for purpose, and then its a mix of legacy and heritage that actually runs the company

Start Date End Date
16/04/1993 30/06/2032

the notes on its system definition is fun, its end date has been pushed back 3 times and at one point they thought it could be exited in 2022 (lmao)

[safe dragon]

I'm trying to build the replacement for one such heritage applications from the 90s

it's going fairly well though

I doubt it'll live to see 2028

[steel kraken]

its kind of impressive to see these systems be seemingly immune, as all the replacements seemingly suck despite having had 30 years to come up with something better

[safe dragon]

turns out new frameworks and techniques don't beat something that simply works

[steel kraken]

that and its a system that the company owns instead of being a SaaS subscription

[safe dragon]

the Microsoft Access based application I'm replacing is ass in many ways but replacing it is still a tall order

[steel kraken]

ooh access, the SQL with training wheels

[safe dragon]

it's actually backed by an oracle database and has been for around 20 years

[steel kraken]

but also an all in one batteries included system that also does the dashboarding and everything else at the same time

[safe dragon]

it really does a lot honestly

[steel kraken]

I can see how that can be a bitch to replace as you either have to replace all its functionality all at once, build the new shit to talk to ancient shit, limiting any ambitions of doing better, or somehow convince the ancient stuff to talk to the new shit which is hard

Very sticky from a corporate lingo standpoint

[safe dragon]

the only remaining thorn in our side to replace really is the report generation

especially since it comes with compare/change tracking functionality where you can have it generate the report with sections marked that changed since the last version

[safe dragon]

it is

we went with a combination of the first two

the biggest compromise is that the oracle database remains for now...

in its very ugly glory

now there's just a rest api sitting in between that tries to turn it into something that looks normal from the outside

[serene portal]

Hello I hope everyone is doing great! I wanted to ask if anyone had any advice on how to get into cybersecurity.

Do you recommend any courses, sources or websites.

(I apologize if my question can be asked here)

[safe dragon]

no idea honestly. The only cybersecurity things I know are from what I've been essentially forced to learn through work

[dusty pollen]

my only cybersec experience is mentioning its existence to my parents and immediately being asked why I don’t try to get a job in it

[serene portal]

That's okey thanks a lot for the responses anyway

[cinder karma]

If i was smarter I would want to go into cybersec

[dusty pollen]

atra do I need to call casey to fight you

[crystal wren]

Apple bois, get Atra for self deprecation!

🗞️

[safe dragon]

works in engineering
if I was smarter

[long verge]

What's your background with programming ?
You want to learn programming in the first time before diving into cybersecurity.
Essentially because you need to understand the logic behind vulnerabilities before explointing them.
Trying to use XSS injection, SQL injection, memory injection etc does'nt make any sense if you don't understand backend develloping, SQL, C/C++ in the first place

If you already have experience in programming, i would recommend webiste like root-me.org, participating in CTF, watching content on YT, and maybe follow some newsletter to stay updated about new vulnerabilities and try to understand the key principles behind it.

PS: I don't do cybersecurity so I won't be able to help more

[serene portal]

I have done some basic Python, JavaScript, HTML and CSS in the past (with the basic I mean stuff like if statements, for loops and while loops nothing really more advanced than that

[serene portal]

OO that okey thanks for the response though it was still appreciated

[supple ether]

That's enough to work with c# on a basic level

The only concept you might not have that would be useful for modding is events/delegates, though that's not very complicated

(excluding harmony, which is its whole own skill set. But even people who already know c# age to learn that)

[safe dragon]

and events are generally evil and bad and mean and I hate them

[supple ether]

What's wrong with events?

They're just fancy callbacks

[safe dragon]

their api is rather bizarre and if I remember right there's no way to query for what listeners there currently are

[supple ether]

Just use event properties and back it with a list?

Also you can query the method list in events and multicast delegates

[safe dragon]

hmm

I had no idea event properties were a thing

with an add and remove

[supple ether]

You can also get the target instance and method of a delegate

I used that for my harmony tool so I didn't have to futz about with nameof

[safe dragon]

ok I stand corrected. I've only experienced ones that were evil

you don't really need or use them for web API work

and Blazor uses EventHandlers but doesn't expose event itself

[supple ether]

I avoid blazor bc the concept of c#-on-wasm seems really dumb

[safe dragon]

no I remembered wrong. It uses EventCallback

not EventHandler

[serene portal]

Sorry if I misunderstood what you said but I was mainly interesting in cybersecurity not really modding #programmers-off-topic message

[safe dragon]

it could be good in theory

it's just not

[supple ether]

Ah no that's my bad!

Your background should give you the basics you need, but c# also has a lot of special sauce features to make things easier and you'll probably want to learn at least some of those.

I don't do cybersecurity, so I can't offer much specific advice in that realm other than "use the standard cryptography library"

(instead of something 3rd party or rolling your own)

[safe dragon]

invent ur own encryption algorithm

roll ur own session management

assume it's safe if it's behind a vpn

always paste user input straight into the query string

[supple ether]

Use string interpolation for sql queries. Stored procedures are for chumps /jk

[cinder karma]

I'll just hand roll my own auth thanks

[safe dragon]

good

[cinder karma]

Use exec in production

Gotta exclude those pesky extra globals for a tiny bit of speed

[safe dragon]

eval is very handy and should be used to allow users to write their own little scripts

I've seen all of these in production other than a bespoke custom encryption algorithm

[supple ether]

Didn't there used to be a REST method for executing code on the server?

[fleet wren]

store your passwords in plaintext so you can email them back to users who forgot them, improving customer satisfaction

[safe dragon]

other way around. Rest technically has "Code on Demand" as one of its optional architectural constraints but that's about sending code to the client which the client will then execute

effectively how websites work in general

[worn remnant]

what is an HTTP request but asking a remote computer to do some work for you? (typically, transfer a copy of a file)

[lethal walrus]

I didn't know rest apis were a standard I thought it was just what people called apis that take and return json tbh

[worn remnant]

REpresentational State Transfer is like a class of API more than a particular spec, at least according to my (old) information

[lethal walrus]

I see

[cinder karma]

Make ur users identify themselves on the phone by typing their passwords with the phone keyboard

[worn remnant]

to update something in a rest api, you have its current form (typically as received from the api beforehand) and you change it locally, then send it back (typically with PUT) with the changes and the API updates the record to match what you sent

most ones of my acquaintance have at least some levels of thing you can target more narrowly, so if you have a big object with sub-objects on it, you don't necessarily have to take the whole big thing and change the one little thing and send back the whole blob. often you get endpoints for changing just the sub items

e.g. a recipe database, and the recipes have tags or whatever to aid searching. there would likely be an endpoint to edit just the tags on a given recipe

[lethal walrus]

Interestjng

[devout vault]

tbh that's better than using md5-no-salt for passwords despite it no longer being y2k (or whenever it got outdated)

(I have seen this before)

[fleet wren]

"Because of computing power shortages causes by the ongoing AI bubble boom we have emailed you your password hash + salt so you can crack it on your own time/CPU power"

[supple ether]

I thought md5 was just a hashsum and not cryptographic

[devout vault]

Yeah it's irreversible

Well, besides rainbow tables, which are very easy to find