programmers-off-topic

[rotund violet]

Logically, since most mods don't use Harmony.

[thin estuary]

SMAPI doesn't require Harmony at all

at least not anymore

[gaunt wadi]

my plan is working

In other news, im trying to build a javascript/typescript/svelte project and it works! Even when the code is syntactically invalid!

The javascript ecosystem is so unknowable to me

[lethal walrus]

fun

[ivory shadow]

It's unknowable to everyone we just pretend

Something you'll find is that some JS tooling don't give a single fuck if your typescript code has valid types and stuff. As long as it has correct enough syntax to be converted into JS, it'll do it. You're expected to use tsc specifically to check for typescript errors, but mostly you're expected to listen to whatever IDE you're using when it says there are errors.

We actually take advantage of that on a couple work projects. We're slowly converting things to typescript, but where things don't have types yet we are relying on the compiler just letting things compile even if typescript isn't happy

[heavy ingot]

I'm rly surprised that I haven't heard of any scholarship oppurtunities where you submit a coding project. i feel like that would be way more fun than an essay

[supple mountain]

i mean, a coding project for that kind of contest would kind of need an essay's worth of comments in the code

[heavy ingot]

fair

I'm just mildly dissapointed lol

[rotund violet]

I think if you can produce that tier of quality or innovation for a mere admissions application, school would be a waste of time anyway.

[supple mountain]

^

[heavy ingot]

tbf i wouldn't want my project to be dictated by an educational institution

[rotund violet]

It's not all that much better being dictated by a manager or board of directors. If you want total freedom over your projects, you generally either have to start your own business or stick to hobby/open source development.

I suppose you could get more variety (and hence a better chance at a project you find interesting, if only for a short term) by going freelance. Not the best for income, though.

[heavy ingot]

I'm just sticking with my studio, they're all good friends and we all have the same vision for the game we're working on

[cinder karma]

Fwiw the essay is near useless for college admit

Unless you sound deranged or you had a very special life experience it didn't matter

[supple mountain]

for scholarship applications that are an essay contest it matters, for admissions it's mostly a litmus test for normalcy

[rotund violet]

"normalcy"

[supple mountain]

lord knows american high schools don't teach kids to write well

[rotund violet]

Much better plan than more academics. Even if it never launches, what you learn will still be a lot more useful than anything in comp sci or any soft studies.

Nothing against academia for fields that require a lot of esoteric knowledge, specialized equipment, and so on, but software just isn't one of those fields anymore.

[supple mountain]

agreed

[heavy ingot]

I'm still gonna go to college since I get free tuition from my dad being a combat veteran, and it's only two years, but ultimately it will just be a backup

[fleet wren]

brb traveling back in time to convince my past self to submit excerps from my fanfic instead

[heavy ingot]

woo yeah

[cinder karma]

In actual programming

Who the fuck decided it was acceptable

That pandas takes 24 full seconds to import

This is Julia bad levels of start up

Worse than julia

[safe dragon]

who's pandas and why are you importing them

[cinder karma]

You don't want to sound deranged

[supple mountain]

very hilarious that i did not learn to write competently via formal education. i learned by writing fanfiction and fighting with people online

[rotund violet]

Also, who is Julia and why are we picking on her?

[cinder karma]

https://julialang.org/

[safe dragon]

I tried julia a lot of years ago when it was just starting to gain some traction

it seemed interesting but I realized it was intended for a usecase I did not care for

the editor experience was also quite abysmal at the time

I've noticed languages that want to be popular for data science and the likes put a lot of focus on repls

I can't say I've ever really used repl beyond just messing around

[cinder karma]

Repl is great for graphing

[safe dragon]

I'm sure it is

can just quickly graph something out without having to dedicate some code path in the actual project

[candid pilot]

i think some of this is unnecessary maybe

[safe dragon]

nope

[candid pilot]

ok yay

[cinder karma]

This feels like a configuration file

[candid pilot]

i'm messing around with a py -> CP thing

[safe dragon]

... cp?

c plus

[cinder karma]

Yes

[candid pilot]

Content Patcher

[cinder karma]

Copy paste

[safe dragon]

oh

modding thing

I understand

[candid pilot]

yeah but it's py so i figured i wouldn't send it in #making-mods-general

[safe dragon]

in this channel we only complain about python it is in our blood

[safe dragon]

if there were ever a reason to use type aliasing it's probably this

if this datastructure is actually desired

give names to the sections it's made out of

[candid pilot]

got it. with the like type composition stuff with the typing module?

anyways. i also love to complain about python it sucks. probably a convenient choice for something that compiles to cp though bc the syntax is pretty simple

this is probably better

wait

yeah

[rotund violet]

in this channel we only complain about python it is in our blood

We also complain about Java. Or maybe that's just me.

[scarlet hollow]

Club Penguin

The programming update

[cinder karma]

Tried to get chatgpt to do some basic python work for me

My prompt was "zip all but png in folder"

Three mistakes found so far

Still faster than me doing it

[scarlet hollow]

That’s all you put as the prompt?

[cinder karma]

Yes

[scarlet hollow]

That’s crazy. I always write, like, a project brief with thoughts and justifications when I ask GPT a programming question.

[cinder karma]

I didn't care if it wrote python or like, gave me instructions for something else

[scarlet hollow]

Your prompt didn’t even ask for python?

[cinder karma]

I just wanted a scriptlet to do a specific task

Nope+

[scarlet hollow]

Wow. For some reason I just assumed my approach to prompting was more-or-less universal

[cinder karma]

I mean

The script itself would have taken me no more than fifteen minutes

Mostly looking at a new library

[scarlet hollow]

Sure. I don’t mean it as an insult for the record

[cinder karma]

I've never given it a brief
Not sure it would produce better answers

(I never give it complex tasks)

The task before this was "git tell me top level of repo"

(It got the correct command!)

[safe dragon]

I use copilot so my prompting style is mostly just writing a function name and then it's like "oh ok"

often need to guide it along

cause it's quite stupid

[cinder karma]

I mean I had to fix the code afterwards anyways

[safe dragon]

I find it very valuable when using libraries I'm not very familiar with yet

assuming it's a popular enough library

else it's worse than useless

actively annoying

[scarlet hollow]

My last coding prompt to GPT was (with specifics removed):

I’m building an open-source library that simplifies the process of [bleh]. Almost everything is finished, but I’m having reservations about one specific part of the calling signature. Currently, this is how a moderately complex call would look:
[10 line code block]

When I previewed this to some coworkers, they said they instinctively preferred to have each “type” of [bleh] separated. As in,
[6 line code block]

This would match the way _our_ company does things, but I want this library to work for a wider, public audience, and I can’t see a reasonable, elegant way to support a potential infinity of configurations using this system. Like, what if a potential user has [bleh], like [bleh], etc? I don’t think I can feasibly support common use cases like this while adhering to the clunky system used by my employer.

Firstly, do you have any thoughts on this? Is my head in the right place for a library intended for wider consumption?

Secondly, if I am on the right track here, what are your thoughts on using [bleh] versus [bleh]? I’m inclined towards the first for its marginally shorter syntax and similarity to [bleh], but it would also bring with it the ugliness of [bleh] often seen in [bleh]. Opinions?

[cinder karma]

It's really good for slightly obscure git commands

[scarlet hollow]

git rerere intensifies

[safe dragon]

just use git reset --force

wait

is it force

or hard

[scarlet hollow]

Hard

To pull from origin

[safe dragon]

[scarlet hollow]

I just use GUI anyway

[safe dragon]

I almost solely use git guis

[cinder karma]

I needed something kinda weird

[scarlet hollow]

I highly recommend Tower for Git

[cinder karma]

I needed my program to refuse to run if you had uncommitted files

[safe dragon]

damn, can't test anything before committing on it

it's like sprints

[cinder karma]

(Test automation. We need to know exactly which version of the code produced which data )

So yeah

It doesn't let you run if there are uncommitted files

And the first thing it does is note the commit hash

[safe dragon]

so test automation but not like, a ci/cd pipeline

[cinder karma]

Real life tests crumble

I've got a laser

[safe dragon]

oh

[scarlet hollow]

Oh

[safe dragon]

a different kind of work environment

[scarlet hollow]

Integration tests [sad drake]
Disintegration tests [happy drake]

[safe dragon]

the closest to a laser I deal with at work is a barcode scanner

we don't test barcode scanners either

[rotund violet]

Errr, git reset doesn't pull from origin. It just resets the working tree.

(and possibly also the index. Or possibly only the index. But it never does a pull.)

[scarlet hollow]

Err, oh yeah

I used the wrong terminology

My usual workflow is clone from origin, new branch, make changes, then commit and push back to origin

I meant like, it resets your local changes to the last committed state of the branch. Which you’re right, is definitely not the same as pulling.

[safe dragon]

I've used git reset like twice in my life I think

[scarlet hollow]

Mann, how did my FedEx package arrive at the distribution center at 8:17 AM today, then arrive at the same distribution center again at 3:40 PM?

[supple mountain]

i made an order a week ago, website goofed and set the shipping address to my parents' instead of my place. on different sides of country

[scarlet hollow]

[supple mountain]

fedex has the shipping address that matches the order (parents) but the tracking info shows the package going across the country towards me

this is a ground shipment so i have no idea why it's more efficient for fedex to send it south 2 states out of the way

[supple mountain]

it's not the end of the world, i am going to visit them next weekend

[scarlet hollow]

Shipping logistics works in mysterious ways

[supple mountain]

and it's an item of clothing so it's not a big deal to stick it in my carry-on

[scarlet hollow]

My favorite feature is how they record tracking events as “clock face” times and don’t adjust them for time zone

So packages sometimes arrive at a location before they’ve departed from the previous one

[supple mountain]

i try to avoid international shipments because you're so much more likely to just burn the money involved, but the few times i have i have been baffled by the time stamps

[rotund violet]

You can save so much money with aliexpress, though.

If it's manufactured in China (and what isn't, these days?) it's like half the price.

[supple mountain]

well, i also avoid buying really cheap stuff when i can

[rotund violet]

It's not "cheap stuff" though, it's the exact same product you can buy here.

[supple mountain]

category of product

i went out of my way to find the one (1) local mattress manufacturer in my region and bought a mattress from them instead of mattress firm or online

[rain apex]

idm paying extra so that the thing ships within the week rather than 3 months

[supple mountain]

i don't buy clothes made with polyester outside of athletic wear and underwear, which knocks out most of fast fashion off the bat

you just can't wear synthetic fabrics in the south for most of the year if you literally ever have to step outside. you will drop

if i end up closer to home when i'm done with grad school i will have to restock on fleeces and stuff

[supple mountain]

this too. even if the original product was made in china, i'd rather just pick it up at a physical store or order from a retailer that's getting it from a warehouse that already has the product

i mostly buy things in physical stores. exceptions:

• PC stuff. not frequent. obviously much of the manufacturing and assembly takes place in china no matter how i purchase it. whatever. i don't want to wait weeks or months for it to ship
• clothes. i am petite and avoid wearing polyester. it's impossible to find certain types of clothes in physical stores
• tea/candles/soap, mostly from small/local businesses
• the occasional cookbook
• skincare products

i guess i could order something like a bluetooth speaker if mine ever kicks the bucket but idk what else i would be interested in on aliexpress or similar sites

[safe dragon]

If I can I just pop by the shops

[supple mountain]

i'm really struggling to think of something i'd even want to order from a site like temu

i know people like to get cute little home goods stuff on there but i'm like. i have all of my kitchen stuff already. i don't need a cute ice tray

[rain apex]

funny keyboard switches

[supple mountain]

desk vacuum? you mean windex and a paper towel?

[pliant snow]

nah, a straw you suck thru quickly

[cinder karma]

Pens

Not because they are necessarily cheaper

[supple mountain]

i have not purchased a pen or a pencil since maybe 2018

they just show up

[cinder karma]

But you can't get super fine tip pens in the US

(I actually don't buy pens anymore either, it is the standing birthday gift from aunt-who-works-at-stationary-store)

[worn remnant]

the best. living the dream right here

[supple mountain]

like i see the use case for people who collect Types Of Things™ and aren't fussy about the origin or environmental impact of their purchases

i don't think my consumer habits really align with that though

[rain apex]

i wish it was legal + feasible to ship mitten crabs to NA from china

[supple mountain]

not from a moral superiority standpoint, just from a "i wouldn't use that and it doesn't spark joy" standpoint

[rain apex]

havent had it in years

[worn remnant]

pigma microns are available here, but they're felt tip and i don't know if that's valid for you

[cinder karma]

Felt tips are not valid sorry

[worn remnant]

i will keep them, then, and spare you

[supple mountain]

i do like le pens

[rain apex]

what is meant by super fine tip pens here?

[supple mountain]

probably finer than le pens

[cinder karma]

0.35 mm

My handwriting is teensy so I use teensy pen too

[supple mountain]

oh le pens actually are 0.3 mm

but i think they're felt tip

[cinder karma]

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Liquid-0-35mm-Ballpoint-Stationery/dp/B07Y2RBV4P/ref=asc_df_B07Y2RBV4P/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693469922557&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18313560972771488799&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026796&hvtargid=pla-827954310704&psc=1&mcid=9baa5c2184673b83a5078f04e6e0856e&gad_source=1

[worn remnant]

microns get crazy small. i think i've seen 0.05?

[cinder karma]

Usually something like this, essentially everywhere in china

(My aunt lives in China)

I'm also in the lucky case of "does not have to buy clothing"

(I get clothing by asking female relatives for items they aren't using)

[worn remnant]

https://www.sakuraofamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Pigma_micron4.jpg

[supple mountain]

i'm unfortunately a bit of a clothes horse

[worn remnant]

you are going to have to explain "clothes horse" to me 😅

[supple mountain]

i like clothes and i spend more time than average fussing about with clothes

look at how fashionable i made my farmersona

[rain apex]

why is that associated with horse

[rotund violet]

Last order I did was for a bunch of liquid cooling parts, the order cost me around $250 when it would have cost over $600 locally. Yes, I am willing to wait a few extra weeks for that.

[supple mountain]

yeah aliexpress sounds like a great option for that

i've always wanted to built my own rig, but my hands are just too clumsy for that and i have a curious cat

even just opening the tower up for dust removal is a challenge bc he's like "uwu what's that? i must investigate"

[supple mountain]

this is the shipment that's currently going the wrong direction en route to the wrong shipping address https://www.quince.com/women/organic-cotton-peasant-blouse?color=white

[cinder karma]

Cute!

Tbh I don't need a good computery set up at home since I never do anything intensive

Is quince actually decent

[supple mountain]

yeah i'm perfectly comfortable with a mid-range rig

[cinder karma]

Their ads seem...hmm

[supple mountain]

i have liked most of what i've ordered from quince

[rotund violet]

For me it was more about quiet than power, although it just ends up being silly to skimp on power when you're already spending that much.

[cinder karma]

Give me a 2-3 year old ex corporate laptop tbh

[supple mountain]

the only complaint i have about my 2020 prebuilt desktop (beyond inability to do maintenance, bc prebuilt) is that the D drive is a failing hard disk

hard disks are kind of a gamble, the one that ended up in this desktop was clearly just prone to developing bad sectors

[rotund violet]

Trying to do any music or sound design is absolutely brutal when you're drowning in fan noise.

[cinder karma]

One day I'll consider making my own clothing again

Yeah I never do that so.

[supple mountain]

my office and my bedroom are the same room so i also prefer water cooling

[cinder karma]

The most annoying thing I do on my own machine is pcb stuff

[supple mountain]

windows likes to do updates in the middle of the night and the fans will wake me up

if i can ever afford a 2-bedroom place to myself i will have my desk in the guest room/office and then consider switching back to air cooling just bc it's easier to get fixed if something goes awry

[cinder karma]

It doesn't do that if the PC is shut down!

[rotund violet]

To each his own. I'm willing to invest in things that will materially improve my quality of life, and eliminating as much machine noise as possible is high up on that list.

[supple mountain]

yeah

[worn remnant]

for me the most important thing a computer can do is be silent. i will compromise almost any other property to obtain this

[supple mountain]

if i keep this tower but replace the failing hard disk with a big SSD, the computer will make essentially zero noise

the case fans are usually running on low speed but i have some mild hearing damage and can't tell

but i can hear the hard disk going krrrrkrkkrkrkkrkrkrrrrr as they do

[worn remnant]

my computers are passively cooled with big ol' heatsink-y cases and i will not use fans

[cinder karma]

I have a laptop stand with small fans

[rotund violet]

I can't hear rad fans. Still need to do something about the pump vibration but it's still collectively like 15 dB lower than when it was air cooled.

[cinder karma]

But my lovely laptop doesn't do much tbh

Runs word

[supple mountain]

yeah my laptop is just a mobile workstation

[cinder karma]

It's not even my primary workstation

Just my home text editor

[supple mountain]

you need decent ram and cpu speed to do some statistical programming (SAS likes to hog RAM, simulations can take a while) but i'm not gaming or doing any kind of media editing on the laptop

but my laptop has become more useless in the last year since the hinge busted

had a friend repair it, lasted three months. same friend repaired it, lasted two weeks. paid someone to repair it, seems fine. for now. clearly not going to withstand being open and shut and carried around like laptops were literally invented to do

[cinder karma]

Oh I know, I just have a tiny army of rescued-from-obsoletion desktops for that.

[rotund violet]

Gaming is, ironically, not considered a very heavy load when designing that type of rig.

[supple mountain]

i will be very happy when i have an organizational laptop and can just have one personal pc

you get the short end of the stick in every regard as a grad student

[rotund violet]

It's neither heavily parallel nor extremely low-latency. (It gets a bit more cramped at 144 Hz, but only a bit.)

[supple mountain]

i guess i'm thinking more form factor?

my laptop lacks a graphics card. integrated graphics really limit what you can play

stardew would run, of course

[rotund violet]

Yeah, integrated graphics generally suck.

On a severely underpowered GPU, gaming performance does obviously suffer, but GPU isn't everything.

[supple mountain]

it was worth it to me to be able to reduce the chassis by like 1" in width/depth, 1/2" in height, and 2 lbs in weight

[cinder karma]

You overestimate hiw many games I play

[supple mountain]

easier to carry around in the dangerously hot summer

[cinder karma]

And the performance requirements

[supple mountain]

at least it WAS until the hinge fell apart

[cinder karma]

Effectively I occasionally play sudoku

Lol

[supple mountain]

i'm planning to leave my laptop here when i go visit my family next weekend just bc i cannot afford to repair or replace this laptop again lol

need to boot up the ol' switch at some point and see if there's anything in particular i want to play on the flights

[candid pilot]

this is so true

spontaneous generation of life might not be real, but spontaneous generation of pens is

spontaneous generation is one of those like pre-science theories or whatever that i honestly wish was true. like yeah i'll just believe that fleas just appear in dust. have enough bushes around and a bunny appears. makes sense to me

[dapper sinew]

and the dissapearance of those cap erasers... things would go so fast

[scarlet hollow]

FedEx Tracking, a story in two images:

It is currently 8:36 AM

[pliant snow]

fedex so advanced they send packages from the future

[scarlet hollow]

What’s even funnier to me is this package was shipped from GMT-7, bound for GMT-7

Like there’s literally no reason for the time stamps to be five hours off

Like if it was a GMT issue? Sure, seven hours. If it was a Daylight Savings Time issue? Sure, one hour either direction. But five???

[worn remnant]

whatever it is is probably on this list: https://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time

[cinder karma]

"If true, resets the fpga on the last close. If true, does not reset the fpga on last session close."

Thanks, docs

[supple ether]

[cinder karma]

I went jnto the source to figure it out and oh my god exec in production

:fear:

[safe dragon]

reminds me of a similar one about people's names

honestly for this one a lot of them are just very naive

oh they acknowledge the names one

[worn remnant]

oh, for sure, but they still crop up: https://codeofmatt.com/list-of-2024-leap-day-bugs/ (referencing paris's street lights turning off at midnight on leap day in particular)

[cinder karma]

"If unsafe_hash is True, a __hash__() method is added"

How the heck did I never bother to read the dataclasses docs in detail before

[safe dragon]

we have a lot of funky stuff at work dealing with transactions done just before a new year that are then processed in the next year

dealing with date/time can be very annoying

huh I somehow forgot to send a message

I wanted to add that they didn't talk about fiscal years neither always starting in january nor being the same length as a real year

[pliant snow]

I have to admit, I've been using chatgpt to answer questions about SDL, and it's been pretty useful

[safe dragon]

just wait till we're no longer in that big push and that stuff is behind a paywall

[pliant snow]

im not sure i like it enough to pay for it lol

[safe dragon]

copilot has been a big help in my hobby project tbh

I don't tend to find rust crates to have particularly great documentation, even major ones

the information is technically there somewhere but hard to find

[cinder karma]

Rust feels like I need a PhD in Rust to understand sometimes

Ah. Yes. We just need to take a graduate level course in type theory first

[safe dragon]

often the best documentation for rust crates is an examples directory on their github page

not the actual documentation

I'm fine reading the type signature when they're not completely insane

type signatures for functions that use dependency injection are usually completely impossible to read

what I want more of though is just... text

type definitions don't always perfectly tell me what it does or needs

[cinder karma]

Damn I wish python had null coalesce

[rain apex]

that'd be nice yea, gotta live with variable = variable or 0 and avoid giving 0 special meaning

[lethal walrus]

is null coalesce the c# thing of variable ??= 1234?

[rain apex]

that's the assignment version yes, there's also nullableVar ?? defaultValue

[lethal walrus]

ah

:o js has the assignment one

[cinder karma]

I just did a bunch of

Var1 = blah if thing in dictionary else None

Var2 = process(var1) if var1 else None

A bunch if

Stupid configs

[lethal walrus]

fun hting I discovered from someone PRing one of the converters: you can do v = dictionary.get('mycoolkey') and it'll be None if not in the dict

[cinder karma]

Ooh

[safe dragon]

null coalescing is the only way I can deal with null at all without losing my mind

I'd still prefer for it to just... not exist

but hey

can't have everything...

I can wish for proper support in C# for an Option or Result type forever

I don't even care if they go the haskell route and call it a Maybe instead of an Option

[rain apex]

perhaps u could result = process(dictionary.get(key))

with some kinda handling in process to return None if the value is no good

[cinder karma]

Well, i sorta uh

Simplified for discord

Process isn't a defined method usually, usually it's some bitchy list comp

Sometimes two of them

[rain apex]

Suffering

[rotund violet]

coughrustcough

[safe dragon]

yes...

or a large variety of functional programming languages

[rotund violet]

True. But who uses Haskell, or even F#?

[safe dragon]

mathematicians

[rotund violet]

Anyway, I just like answering every complaint with "rust".

[safe dragon]

as you should

this is #lost-rustaceans after all

like the channel description says

[rotund violet]

I saw that, but I wasn't sure if it was always there and I didn't notice the first time, or if it got added after last week's rust-fest.

[safe dragon]

it's been there for a long time

this channel is for getting mad at every language that is not rust

[rotund violet]

I can do that. I can't stay mad at C#, but I do get mad a lot.

Y U NO HAVE DISCRIMINATED UNIONS, C# - the proposal was 7 years ago

[safe dragon]

this server is easily the most positive I've ever seen any programming community about C#

F# has them!

[rotund violet]

I know.

Yet another reason to be mad at C# for failing to have them. You know how to do this already, Microsoft!

[safe dragon]

how do they even work when you expose an F# api in C#

[cinder karma]

Lol

You can have unions in c# if you hate yourself

[rain apex]

python is kind of a functional lang with functools

[cinder karma]

I say that because the compiler is no help at all in that case

[rotund violet]

I mean, I know you can sort of half-baked implement them using generics, without having exhaustiveness checking.

[rain apex]

It's got curry (partial)

[cinder karma]

Oh I meant manual struct layout

Lol

[rotund violet]

It's not the same as discriminated unions in Rust or F# though.

[safe dragon]

python is like a functional language that was aggressively opposed to the concept of functional purity and correctness

[cinder karma]

Lol

Anyways.

[rotund violet]

Python to me is "I shall create a new and better language with the speed of Ruby and the safety of Javascript"

(and don't tell me Python came before Ruby. I know.)

[safe dragon]

tbh any modern language should in my mind have some version of iterators/linq/higher order functions

I need them

I can't live without them

[rotund violet]

HOFs are tough, even Rust has a hard time with some of them, especially if they use generics.

I can't even remember what the situation was, but every so often I really want to do some metaprogramming that's agnostic of the base type rather than the generic argument(s) and it's almost invariably impossible.

[safe dragon]

idk what you're talking about, rust has no shortcomings

[rotund violet]

None whatsoever. I don't know what came over me.

[safe dragon]

anything you believe to be a shortcoming in the language is in fact a skill issue

just like in haskell

[rotund violet]

To be fair, though, a lot of the things people complain about really are skill issues.

[safe dragon]

yes

though hopefully it's only beginners complaining about those

[rotund violet]

I think roughly 1 time out of 50 that I rage against the borrow checker, it really is some irritating deficiency in the borrow checker having to do with poorly-implemented lexical scoping or somesuch. The other 49 times, it ends up being some derp moment where a more thorough analysis proves that, yep, this really wasn't safe and could have randomly and irretrievably corrupted data.

[safe dragon]

smh

[rotund violet]

Or just not knowing which magic spell to use vis-a-vis lifetime parameters, and I could have gotten it to compile by adding 2 characters.

[safe dragon]

The one I tend to run into is rust having difficulty dealing with partial borrows where you only borrow one part of a struct and a different part of the struct elsewhere

[rotund violet]

Yes, that's the lexical scoping thing, the borrow checker is supposed to understand that but it's hit or miss.

[safe dragon]

it should improve in the theoretical next borrowchecker that's been in the works for a very long time

[rotund violet]

lol, yes, the mythical new borrow checker. Still waiting!

If when it launches, it's gonna be lit!

[rain apex]

how many years has it been announced for

[safe dragon]

6 years ago it seems

[rotund violet]

I never really did figure out what exactly makes the current checker get its panties in a bunch over partial borrows. Super basic operations seem OK, but start adding any control flow, function calls, closures, or some combination of them all, and it just nopes out of it.

[pliant snow]

tfw you upgrade the hardware in your laptop, and the hardware upgrade goes fine, but you also happened to mess up a routine software update and now have to fix that instead

[safe dragon]

never update your software

[pliant snow]

i was a fool

[rain apex]

have you tried rolling your releases harder

[rotund violet]

I am 682 days out of date, apparently

[pliant snow]

actually i changed a setting in my bootloader, anticipating the upgrade, and didnt actually check if it still booted

[safe dragon]

this sounds like a preventable problem

[rotund violet]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-evil-how-about-no-austin-powers-gif-17640212

"we strongly recommend you upgrade in order to get the latest security patches"

Ok, the gif was supposed to be after the quote, but whatever. Thanks Discord.

[safe dragon]

I do actually update my system at least once a week

[lethal walrus]

yeah they force gifs to be immediately sent

[rotund violet]

Maybe I'd be less reluctant to update on Linux. Windows updates, though, and Android updates, ugh...

Every single one is "let's risk bricking my machine so I can get a bunch of new ads shoved in my face". Why?

[pliant snow]

alright, im in

[safe dragon]

gratz

for Android updates I just assume they'll slow down my phone and break another thing

[rain apex]

i stopped updating discord ever since they changed the ui for 3rd or 4th time

[strange copper]

every time I update my phone, my carrier tries to get me to "optimize apps" and I have to manually uncheck 6 apps like TikTok in order to make the sticky notification go away or else it will install them

[safe dragon]

carrier phones are a wild concept to me

I'm honestly not sure what the phones are even like here when you do buy them from a carrier for some mysterious reason

I've had the "optimize apps" request after android major version upgrades but it doesn't install anything

[strange copper]

Wait really, even if you don't uncheck them?

[cinder karma]

My phone has never asked me about tiktok

[safe dragon]

there's nothing to uncheck

there's just a button "optimize apps"

which only appears when going from like android 11 to 12 or something no other updates

there's definitely no tiktok checkbox...

would be very strange on a google phone tbh

considering tiktok is their competitor

and here you just don't buy phones from carriers. You buy a phone from a regular electronics store and then put in your old sim card

[cinder karma]

Fwiw that is how it can work in the US too

Except you would have to buy the phone in its entirety

(Ie, paying the full cost up front)

Carriers try to lure you in with carrier phones

Where you end up paying them for it over time in your phone plan

And there are often other tricks too

I don't like it

I usually get my phones refurbished anyways

[safe dragon]

ah yeah we do have subscriptions of sorts where you pay off the phone over some time period that are tied to a subscription but the phone is still the exact same, there isn't suddenly a tmobile logo in the startup or something

which I have seen in US phones

which is strange to me

well I saw it with verizon but there is no verizon here so it would be a bad example

It used to be a thing here I think but then simlocked phones became illegal

[scarlet hollow]

https://youtube.com/shorts/SQYNa7ZjuDQ

[safe dragon]

what's a 10x software engineer

a guy who does work for 10 people?

[scarlet hollow]

Yeah

When a company talks about 10x developers, what they usually mean is someone who voluntarily works 12 hour days, 7 days a week and is on-call for the other half.

[safe dragon]

aka not me

[scarlet hollow]

Heyyyy, amen to that, brotha

I cannot wait to quit my current job

[safe dragon]

[scarlet hollow]

It’s a race at this point to see if they fire me or I make it 6 weeks to my one-year anniversary

[safe dragon]

damn that bad

[scarlet hollow]

Hehe, kinda.

I joined as a React engineer last August. For some ungodly reason, the company has their own internal replacement to React which most teams are required to use. I was interviewed for React and assured that I was on one of the only teams that was using React

You can probably see where this is going.

“Oops, plans changed. You’re on this team now”

[safe dragon]

ah fun

is it very different

[scarlet hollow]

Yeah haha. It’s closer to PHP

So I spent my first three months working on my own, chasing down test failures in a front end framework that I knew nothing about, which we had to do because the company fired all of the SDETs and made testing the developers’ responsibility instead

[safe dragon]

oh that's always a bad idea

[scarlet hollow]

And the company has ungodly leverage against me because 15% of my first year salary is paid as a signing bonus that I owe back to them if I leave before my one year anniversary for any reason other than a layoff

Never agreeing to THAT ever again.

[safe dragon]

if they are preparing from day 1 for the possibility that you'll leave in less than a single year that doesn't give a great impression

[scarlet hollow]

I’ve been shunted around to like three different teams, switching frameworks, juggling way too many balls (for me, anyway), and being assigned to things that I am decidedly not the right fit for, all the while losing 30-50% of my time to meetings (woo, scrum!) and being hounded as to why I’m not hitting 80% ticket completion when I’m assigned 10 days of tickets for a 10 day sprint

Sorry, deep breaths

I’ve just about fucking had it

But again, the bonus clause of the contract is forcing me to stay. However, if, at any time, my manager is unhappy enough to fire me, I immediately owe the company five figures

[rain apex]

how do u do anything if they r switch ur team every 2~3 months

[scarlet hollow]

That’s the fun part—I don’t!

[rain apex]

Does anyone do anything at ur company then

[scarlet hollow]

Haha, yeah, they work long hours to compensate

Also there was the one time I was having trouble grasping a specific part of the stack and the ticket descriptions were like five words each, so I asked the senior for better descriptions. I showed an example of a well-defined, detailed and clear ticket to show what I was looking for and my boss was in the meeting and looked at it and said “I do NOT agree to this. This ticket—a middle schooler could do this!”

🥲

I got so close to quitting on the spot

[rotund violet]

would be very strange on a google phone tbh

I doubt that's actually a Google phone (like a Pixel), it's probably a Samsung or some other off-brand Android. Those are the ones who put on all the bloatware, Google just adds their own apps.

[safe dragon]

oh yeah I just mean I have a pixel phone

[rotund violet]

It's really not.

[scarlet hollow]

Aight, go ahead with your definition

[rotund violet]

Maybe there are some companies that started using it as a buzzword, but really it's a reference to the fact that productivity varies by a factor of 10.

(between the min and max)

[safe dragon]

strive to be a 4x developer, develop for the next civilization game

[rotund violet]

I'll grant that there are a lot of stupid managers who didn't really understand what Spolsky or whomever first iterated that statistic meant, and think it means a developer who works 150 hours a week. But there is in fact a 10x difference between the best and worst devs.

And it's not in the amount of hours they work, it's just productivity.

[rain apex]

Are there similar metrics for other fields?

[rotund violet]

Probably, if there are other fields that are highly g-loaded.

[safe dragon]

can't imagine there isn't

[rotund violet]

It probably applies to all engineering disciplines, it's just a bit more obvious in software because the iterations are so fast.

[safe dragon]

I think consultancy firms do have concepts of what kind of deals employees are able to close

tbh I've had some dev colleagues whose net contribution was probably in the negatives even after 3 years at the job. 10x that would technically be someone who actively sabotages the project

[rotund violet]

Haha, a -10x developer

I've met one or two of those, though fortunately not often.

[safe dragon]

I've met two

[rain apex]

That's just ppl who leave behind code that you have to fix

Instead of spending time on new features

[safe dragon]

pretty much

[rotund violet]

Anyway, it's not my intent to dump on anyone in particular, there aren't enough "10x developers" in the entire world to fill 10% of the programming positions in this country alone, and there are tons of "5x" and "2x" developers doing great work. But the number of times I got asked for an estimate and had to answer, "it really depends on whom you assign..."

[safe dragon]

not just our time but also the testers who already are overworked

[scarlet hollow]

In my opinion, when you get down to brass tacks, outcomes are measured by tickets closed and work delivered. I just think that’s non-negotiable. Every person learns at a different pace, has a different level of comfort with their role and responsibilities, and has different career ambitions. People who lack raw coding ability make up for that with longer hours. The average “10x developer” (in common parlance) is going to work more time than the average developer overall, because there are people who have the career ambition but not the natural fluency to realize 10x productivity in a 40 hour week.

[rotund violet]

It's just wrong. A lot of the ridiculously productive guys are low-ambition. They don't work a lot because they don't have to.

[scarlet hollow]

I think that’s going to vary a lot on what work you’re doing and what company you’re working at. We might just have to agree to disagree

[safe dragon]

I feel like at my company how good you're doing is based on same vague impression they have of you that's not particularly tied to your productivity, or that's just impostor syndrome talking who knows

[rotund violet]

Reality is harsh sometimes. 10 points on the IQ scale is roughly a 2x multiplier in speed of skill and knowledge acquisition and pattern recognition. Of course there are also savants, but they're the exception.

[scarlet hollow]

Source?

[safe dragon]

there's very intelligent people who are still terrible at getting anything done

[rotund violet]

I don't answer "source?" anymore. Lazy argument.

[scarlet hollow]

Lmao okay

Then I’m done listening

[rain apex]

I feel like we are conflating efficiency and motivation

[rotund violet]

There are, there definitely are. It's just potential after all. Doesn't matter how fast you learn if you're not interested in learning and don't care.

[safe dragon]

I have a colleague who is probably incredibly intelligent but he has a lot of difficulty moving past minor problems he has with things and spends an ungodly amount of time arguing about them

[rotund violet]

But if you get someone who has the talent and the ambition, or even some of the ambition, then it takes 10x the work of someone else to catch up to them.

[safe dragon]

tbh at my company I think the different between the fastest and the slowest developer(that hasn't been fired yet) is like maybe 2x

but we don't have juniors

I'm the most "junior" of all of them and I've been here for over four years

I thinke experience equalizes things a bunch

[rotund violet]

If you're in FAANG (or whatever the acronym is now) or similarly selective fields like quants, then the "1x" usually doesn't get hired in the first place.

[safe dragon]

I think it's still FAANG even though it doesn't make sense

[scarlet hollow]

Not for nothing, I think the “ambition” argument is toxic and deleterious to employee and workplace health

[rotund violet]

Probably comparing the absolute upper echelons with those who are just way above average.

[scarlet hollow]

Because it ignores things like proper roles and strengths and weaknesses

If everyone is assigned to work that perfectly matches their interests and skills, then sure. But that’s not the reality most of the time (at least in my experience)

[rotund violet]

Reality: not everyone has strengths that match their chosen career. Everyone can find something to contribute, in the general labor-market sense, but not necessarily at every company or in every position.

Call it toxic if you want, but this ain't work, and you ain't HR.

[scarlet hollow]

I ain’t HR, because HR protects the company, not the workers 🙂

[safe dragon]

I don't think this is a productive argument in any case

[scarlet hollow]

Agreed

[safe dragon]

Personally I quite enjoy working on a large variety of things and am used to kinda being thrown at whatever project needs help

no idea what my strengths or weaknesses would be honestly I try not to do more than what I can get away with

[rotund violet]

That's often been my path as well, I've never been much for job-hopping or even transfer-hopping.

Very few things out there can't be made (a lot) better than they are.

[rain apex]

My strength is knowing the right words to put in the search engine for my current issue

[rotund violet]

That's actually a fairly important skill, I'd say.

[safe dragon]

tbh you can't underestimate a good grasp of google-fu

[rotund violet]

It sounds trivial, but I've met so many people who just don't know how to Google.

[rain apex]

That said my work involves a thing called USD so sometimes I get crypto currency

[safe dragon]

focus put it in a slightly more normal way

lmao rough

[scarlet hollow]

Counterpoint: changing Facebook to Meta gives you the ability to call them “MANGA companies”

[rotund violet]

If you can solve your problem with 10 seconds of Google, vs. spending hours upon hours pestering other people for information they don't have... that's an asset.

[safe dragon]

I mean if we go that route we also kind of have to replace the G from google with alphabet

MAAAN

pretyt good acronym

[scarlet hollow]

Also my reaction to my work

[safe dragon]

the N can remain but it's now nvidia instead of netflix

[rotund violet]

Is nvidia actually in the US?

I thought they were... I don't even know. Japanese?

Korean maybe?

[scarlet hollow]

They’re American yes lol

[rotund violet]

Huh. Headquartered in Santa Clara. Whaddaya know.

[safe dragon]

I mean due to the nature of working in GPU manufacturing I'm sure a fairly significant portion of their expert workforce is in china

[scarlet hollow]

Taiwan mainly, I believe

[rotund violet]

They sure aren't fabbin' em here.

[scarlet hollow]

TSMC and whatnot

[rain apex]

Didn't china get sanctioned

[scarlet hollow]

Yes

[safe dragon]

yeah though that's just the chips. Most of the process happens in shenzhen I think

[rain apex]

No fancy gpu for u

[rotund violet]

Doesn't China get sanctioned like, every other year?

[rain apex]

Yeah I am just confused about how they can be making chips they aren't allowed to buy

[rotund violet]

I don't think they particularly care, it's like hearing the shrimpy little elementary school kid whining "BIG MEANIE"

30 years ago it was probably a big deal, huge deal, to get sanctioned by the US. Now it's like... eh.

[scarlet hollow]

Assembly is nominally by FOXXCON but the lithographic process and the chip manufacturing is done in Taiwan by TSMC

[safe dragon]

ye

[scarlet hollow]

But there is talk about moving chips to US

So that could affect China’s involvement in final assembly too

[rotund violet]

USA making its own chips again would be a great thing, but I'm skeptical it'll happen anytime soon.

There's been talk for many years and it just never materializes.

[safe dragon]

there have always been talks like that but not a whole lot tends to happen because they end up just having to import experts from china cause the knowledge required is extremely niche and the people who know enough in that niche are all in china and taiwan

[scarlet hollow]

Geopolitics continues to go brrr though

[safe dragon]

asml in the netherlands also hires mostly foreign experts

[scarlet hollow]

If China were to invade Taiwan the math changes very quickly

[rotund violet]

Right, I think it would require a period of 10-20 years of just rebuilding competency. If a company wants to just start up a fab immediately in the US, they have to hire a bunch of foreign ringers to build and run it.

[safe dragon]

there are fabs in the US already though it's usually the older process they still have to keep running

the newest high end stays in taiwan and china

[rotund violet]

There are, but aren't they for lower-end stuff, like microcontrollers?

CPUs, GPUs and SOCs are almost all somewhere in Asia.

[safe dragon]

primarily yeah thoug holder process doesn't necessarily mean very low end, just not the newest and greatest

that lower end space is already for a big part filled by companies like mediatek

[rotund violet]

By lower end I mean "down-market", which maybe is the same thing... basically I mean chips in the $1-$20 range, not the stuff that costs hundreds (or thousands)..

[safe dragon]

no idea tbh about the details

[rotund violet]

Not sure about tensors, though. Some of that might be local because Google et al have never trusted outsourcing.

[safe dragon]

I work in web development I have no inside knowledge on any of this

used to follow it more closely

can't be bothered anymore for the most part now cause it's just all so expensive

[scarlet hollow]

Wait I didn’t know this

pog

[rotund violet]

Are you talking about the $3000 GPUs, or do you mean expensive in terms of time it takes to stay fully informed? (I can't keep track either, one year AMD is winning, then suddenly it's Intel again, then a month later it's AMD again...)

[safe dragon]

I just mean that I've lost my passion for following news for gpus because I just know that when they get announced they'll be too expensive for me to feel any motivation to get them

I still read up when a new generation launches but more just a vague glance

[rotund violet]

I tended not to grab the newest GPU even when they were less expensive because I didn't want to have to tear down and rebuild the whole loop...

[scarlet hollow]

“This month, I could pay my rent, or I could play GTA 6 at 4K 120 on release. Hmmmm…”

[safe dragon]

I didn't have the money in the past and now I don't want to spend that money 🙏

[rotund violet]

It's also a question of what exactly you get out of it. Do you spend to make a lot more work for yourself setting it up, for barely-noticeable performance gains, just to be able to say you've got the latest thing?

[safe dragon]

yes though a very different branch from what you're in. I don't use javascript very much it's mostly backend work and some "C# as frontend" server side frameworks like ASP.NET WebForms and Blazor

[cinder karma]

Tbh a really really good graphics card feels only worthwhile if you're doing something like

[scarlet hollow]

Ohhhhh I see. Neato 🙂

[cinder karma]

Modeling proteins

[rotund violet]

GPU tech isn't advancing that quickly, I think 4-5 years was a reasonable replacement window 5-10 years ago, now it's probably even less.

[safe dragon]

also depends if you want a 4k monitor...

[scarlet hollow]

ORRRR playing Skyrim with 8K textures and 500 graphics mods

[safe dragon]

1080p and 1440p gaming quite affordable these days

[rotund violet]

I do like my high-end GPU but I'm running dual 4K and also want quiet (as I mentioned the other day) so having something that never requires the pump to ramp up is nice.

[scarlet hollow]

God can you imagine 720p gaming?

[rotund violet]

If I were running 1080p, I would never have bought it.

[safe dragon]

don't have to imagine I experienced 🙏

well

it wasn't really 720p cause it was a different aspect ratio

[rotund violet]

Many of us experienced 480p and even 240p gaming.

[gaunt wadi]

what

[safe dragon]

hi cat

[scarlet hollow]

Just let it go lmao

[rotund violet]

What resolution were those old Tiger Electronics handhelds, anyway?

[safe dragon]

who knows

7

[rotund violet]

I feel like they had... 60 total pixels, or something.

[safe dragon]

.img 100 games brick

[heavy dagger]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TU0AAOSwdmJjwOcC/s-l1200.webp

[rain apex]

u can run a great number of games on a integrated gpu if its 480p

[safe dragon]

this was my introduction to gaming

[scarlet hollow]

I read that as BITCH GAME and for the life of me I cannot explain why

[rotund violet]

Impressive.

[safe dragon]

though a 99 in 1 version

[rotund violet]

99? It says 9999 in 1! That's value!

[safe dragon]

I think mine in reality had like 5 games

[rotund violet]

My Steam library pales in comparison.

[safe dragon]

only two of which were really functional

none of which were tetris

[rotund violet]

Early console and handheld gaming was a special time. So many of these "N in one" games and products, all of them absolutely wretchedly terrible.

[safe dragon]

I have some dvd somewhere with 100 games on it supposedly

it doesn't work

I'll have to believe they're on there

[rotund violet]

I know I've got a 100-in-1 NES cartridge in one of the boxes around here.

[safe dragon]

I do have a dvd somewhere that does actually have 3 games on it. Petz 4, some lego city builder thing and freddi fish 1

[rotund violet]

If I remember correctly, there were something like 8 different actual games, and several dozen palette-swaps and bizarre broken variants.

The original SMB/Duck Hunt cart was the first I can remember that was actually 2 real games on 1 cartridge.

[cinder karma]

What is this

[safe dragon]

peak

[cinder karma]

What's skyrim?

[scarlet hollow]

Just a little indie game

[cinder karma]

Eff latex

[cinder karma]

Pandoc is pretty good

I told it to take a docx and make it a pdf and it didn't completely dje

Okay it died on tbr tables which is what I was hoping it would do FOR me

[pliant snow]

you do have to have every haskell library under the sun installed to use it tho

[safe dragon]

you underestimate the sheer number of haskell libraries

[sand frost]

I feel like I blame docx here

[supple mountain]

docx constantly sets its own formatting on fire

[cinder karma]

Oh I blame docx

I hate docx

I tried a shortcut

[pliant snow]

maybe try converting to odt first

[thin estuary]

https://code-corner.dev/2024/06/19/NET-9-ToList-vs-ToArray/

[sand frost]

I spent a lot of time painfully converting docx <> tex and concluded it's a terrible time

[pliant snow]

let AI do it

that sucker

[rotund violet]

Given this is .NET 9 already, I'd like to see ToImmutableList and ToImmutableArray in that comparison.

[safe dragon]

they shouldn't change much right

they're both just thin struct wrappers over the regular version

actually not sure that's true for immutablelist

I know that's true for immutablearray

it's probably not true for the other thinking about it

[rotund violet]

I wouldn't be too surprised if ImmutableArray behaves like array (and I remember having trouble figuring out how it was implemented), but yes, ImmutableList is actually a totally different implementation.

It's the "ReadOnly" versions that tend to be just wrappers.

[safe dragon]

ImmutableArray<T> is a very thin wrapper around a regular array and thus shares all the benefits with them. We even made it a value type (struct) as it only has a single field which holds the array it wraps. This makes the size of the value type identical to the reference of the array. In other words: passing around an immutable array is as cheap as passing around the underlying array. Since it’s a value type, there is also no additional object allocation necessary to create the immutable wrapper, which can reduce GC pressure.

from microsoft's blog about it

so yeah that one is rather boring

honestly C# is kinda wild

we've got frozen collections, immutable collections, readonly collections

[cinder karma]

C#14: introducing....the slushie collection`

[safe dragon]

honestly I fully expect C# to add some fourth iteration of readonly collections at some point

idk yet what for

but they'll figure it out

immutable collections that also protect against mutation of a contained reference type

[cinder karma]

Hey there are records record structs ref structs normal classes primary constructors and on and on

Normal structs

Lots of options

[safe dragon]

not even records protect against mutation of the inner value of their reference type properties...

[cinder karma]

Oh I meant in a "so many very similar options" type of deal

That said I love love love primary constructors when I can

[safe dragon]

me too

wish I could throw out C#'s entire mutation system into something where you can actually genuinely guarantee nothing about an object will change without requiring me to have full authority over how this object is structured

rust

[dapper sinew]

how in the world do i add APIs to a MC mod The import ---- cannot be resolved Java(268435846)

google sucks and isnt helping, so thought to ask here

[lethal walrus]

Like imports from the modloader/mc or external ?

[dapper sinew]

external

i need an API from a mod but no matter what i do i get that error

this is the times where i wish i knew how to actually code and not just half code half read

[lethal walrus]

what mod is it?

[rotund violet]

Only thing that bugs me about primary constructors is that you can't make them readonly. Every other language with primary constructors has that.

You can do private readonly Foo foo = foo and it works, but the scoping is a little strange, some refs will use the field and others will use the ctor parameter. And static analyzers complain about it.

[safe dragon]

what's an example of another lanugage with primary constructors? I only know it as a C# specific term

[rotund violet]

Maybe they're not always called "primary constructors", just "constructors". TypeScript, Kotlin, etc.

It's not something I'm going to tableflip over, just would've been nice since it already has pretty well-established conventions (just write the access/mutability modifiers before the argument).

[safe dragon]

interesting

I suppose record does that in a way but for all parameters

primary constructor variables aren't accessible from outside the class anyway are they

all you'd need to do to make a readonly property with a primary constructor is that met a readonly parameter that's initialized using that value

[rotund violet]

Sure, but private readonly isn't accessible from outside the class either and it's still what we generally write for constructor-initialized fields (pre-primary constructors).

If you just mean that the private part is redundant then yeah, all you really need is the readonly.

[thin estuary]

dear #programmers-off-topic, this week i've been hard at work making my own GMCM for Cobalt Core.

apparently i've forgotten to make it save, so small update

[cinder karma]

Await, eh

Interesting!

[thin estuary]

not the best name, i know

i'm just a bit tired of the OnGameLaunched dance

[cinder karma]

Oh I was wondering if was actually async

[thin estuary]

in our case, it's a bit worse too, since we have multi-phase mod loading, so our equivalent OnModLoadPhaseFinished gives you a phase arg you need to check

yeah it's not really async

[cinder karma]

Sounds fun

[rotund violet]

This is intended as an alternative to GMCM?

Or some kind of add-on?

[thin estuary]

it's for a different game!

[rotund violet]

Oh right, I just skimmed after the "GMCM" and missed the "Cobalt Core" entirely.

[thin estuary]

also i'm deranged and am now transpiling Harmony itself to improve performance

[rotund violet]

That... sounds like a bad idea. But best of luck.

[thin estuary]

honestly not as bad as you'd think

[cinder karma]

You're managing the damn modloader

Why not just fork harmony

Anyways

[thin estuary]

i've already had a pair of non-transpiler patches to add mod names to stack traces, the thing SMAPI did with its fork of Harmony

i just didn't want to fork

but yeah, my current idea is to allow temporarily pausing patching

kinda like transactions, except not really

forking is more work than patching

[cinder karma]

I have me the sinking feeling I must now understand python threading

Actual threading

[thin estuary]

and you pay the cost each time you want to update Harmony

[cinder karma]

Since I'm already in nightmarish labview integration zone I feel like I will be cursing soon

[thin estuary]

i think i'd prefer knitting over whatever this LabView is

[cinder karma]

Hey

Knitting is fun

[sand frost]

Labview is bad

[thin estuary]

i'm not really known for knitting

[cinder karma]

I held up my sweater this morning and wow, it is turning out exactly how I imagined it

For a pattern I yolo'ed, not bad

No gauge swatch, nothing. Just cast on and did some math

[gaunt wadi]

New significant arch upgrade issue: they just broke DVI output somehow, can't figure out how to downgrade without scary warnings

A bunch of other people reporting the same problem

Hopefully fixed soon

[gaunt wadi]

in an unrelated note, it's been very interesting watching my toots propagate through mastodon communites based on who is favoriting/retooting them

I saw a distinct group of old people, then a few hours later blind people, then a few hours later jewish people

I'm hitting all the demographics

[safe dragon]

dvi output damn

cutting edge setup

[supple mountain]

i've had to do the recording and transcribing for some interviews for my dissertation on an absolutely ancient macbook because the university just couldn't reach down into the resource bag to give a single grad student an institutional laptop

the panel is a TN, which makes my eyes bleed

and the combo of Ancient™ plus 🍎 means there is absolutely no combination of adapters i could reasonably get on an errand run that would let me hook it up to my desktop monitor

i ended up having to wear my sunglasses to do the transcriptions lmao

[rain apex]

If u bury that macbook will it grow ancient apple tree

[supple mountain]

it does speak to the overall quality of macbooks that (as a lifelong pc user) my guess as to the year it was made was a full 5 years off

did not change that the physical screen caused enormous eye strain

[candid pilot]

oh thats so interesting

[pliant snow]

Is the issue in the kernel then? Or in the graphics driver packages?

[pliant snow]

Even the blind demand momo

[gaunt wadi]

Graphics drivers, but I also need to downgrade the kernel because the older working drivers weren't built for the latest kernel

[pliant snow]

Could you switch to the LTS kernel

[gaunt wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJqDPaf31Gw

[gaunt wadi]

I'm going to try to not use the dvi port, it's easier lol. There was some reason I used it, but I can't remember why anymore

[crystal wren]

You like your connectors having visible pins that can poke stuff? That's a valid reason.

[cinder karma]

Just open up the compute

[safe dragon]

you like screwing in little screws on the connector so that when you trip over the cable it pulls the entire monitor off the table instead of just detaching the cable

[cinder karma]

Do some stabby with an oscilloscope

Carefully remove the covering from the traces

[rotund violet]

The tripping-over-the-cable thing happened to me more than once. Also, the "thought the screw was loosened but apparently not quite enough" dance that would sometimes yank the entire card loose.

[crystal wren]

That's why I've always argued yoou want to leave them unscrewed! Better to reconnect something than either wreck a board or something.

[safe dragon]

as some kind of curse I'm using vga now for a few days working from my mom's house

I shouldn't have slandered

the only solace is that it's through a vga connector on a docking station of all things which doesn't even support the screws

idk what a USB C docking station is doing with a vga port but I'm thankful it has one or I would've had to use 1 monitor for a few days

[rotund violet]

Indeed, after a few "accidents" I learned to just leave them unscrewed. It was only a few years later that the industry started switching to HDMI and DP... and I can't say I miss DVI (or VGA).

[cinder karma]

Lol we still have vga

(It's cheap)

[safe dragon]

the only thing I could miss about vga and dvi is that they weren't bloated with a specification that has so many caveats and optional features that it might as well not be considered a specification anymore

dreaded hdmi

would've been the worst if USB didn't exist

[sonic mirage]

Don't worry, some DP connectors have the locking mechanism you have to squeeze to disconnect

[cinder karma]

Thanks for pandoc, aquo!

It's...not perfect (heaven knows it dies on tables) but it's faster still for me to throw files at it and hand edit alter

[pliant snow]

yeah pandoc will do like any conversion fairly well.

[cinder karma]

the funny part is that it rendered the tables as

....minipages

every cell

an individual minipage

(I'm mostly using xltabular for tables these tdays)

is it just me or there's like seven latex table libaries, each slightly annoying

for example, xltabular's little header row? Sometimes doesn't match my other column widths. Why? no clue

I also can't force it to break when I need it to

[pliant snow]

I like latex, but I recall diving into different libraries makes it a pain

[cinder karma]

so far we've used longtable, tabularx, and xltabular

the last one is...probably the most full featured

but damn I feel it in the compile times

and sometimes it just janks for no good reason

[pliant snow]

could always use that online latex editor thing

[cinder karma]

We switched over for pagiation on tables. Which eh

is bad no matter how you try to slice it

tables with math and footntes are always bad

[cinder karma]

https://github.com/ailon/markerjs lol

deprecated even!

[worn remnant]

[supple ether]

I wish C# would compile length values for constant strings to constant ints

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't

in a similar vein I wish you could do array constants for value-type arrays

[cinder karma]

you kinda can

if you're willing to be a disaster

crap

[supple ether]

hm?

[cinder karma]

which was the version of C# that would blit ReadOnlySpan?

https://vcsjones.dev/csharp-readonly-span-bytes-static/ maybe?

I'm trying to remember specifics, and it's also, like, on the level of "plz do this compiler"

[supple ether]

that's fascinating and very cool. not very idiomatic though

[cinder karma]

yeah, and if the compiler doesn't Do It you're allocating a lot

no seriously

[supple ether]

would be great to just have like const ReadOnlySpan<T> and maybe a lengthOf for those and for string constants. (whether explicit or implicit. like, cmon, you really can't optimize "someString".Length?)

[cinder karma]

double-o-six is sooo good https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-006-introduction-to-algorithms-spring-2020/

[cinder karma]

I've felt that "user defined constants" are missing from C#

[red crest]

i will take your word for it on 006 bc ive taken enough algorithm courses during my education at this point to last me a good while. my least favourite courses

[cinder karma]

like

seriously

struct Blah:
  int blah: 
  const fn constructor(int v) -> self.blah = v;

pretend pretend pretend that's some valid programming language

I don't even know

[supple ether]

I call it PyRust

[cinder karma]

let me guess. compilers and assmb was your favorites?

awww not even a nice little jit

[red crest]

i did actually enjoy the class i used assembly in! the compiler one i would theoretically enjoy, though the professor was not the greatest. seemed like a very fun thing to do if i wasnt so time limited

but, my algorithms classes involved too much proof writing for me to enjoy any moment of it

[supple ether]

looking at the source, string.Length is marked as Intrinsic so it's possible that the JIT will optimize it out completely even though the compiler doesn't. I suppose on some level that makes sense

[red crest]

i want to write (barely functional) code i do not wish to write proofs

[cinder karma]

I feel like if I was a more functional person I would have had a physics double major

I like proofs. I love math.

[supple ether]

oh rip there goes that theory

[rain apex]

I really enjoyed the programming languages class in college

It was mainly about functional programming and we got assignments in haskell

[cinder karma]

I'm this close to trying to lead a revolt against labview at work

[fleet wren]

dang yall making me miss college
(college was fun, and I enjoyed it. I wouldn't do it again, but I enjoyed it)

[cinder karma]

I think I even have enough support....maybe

(Replacinf labview with verilog)

[cinder karma]

Just go get a phd

[rain apex]

To be fair for every 1 fun class there 6 boring ones and 3 🚮

[gaunt wadi]

the ol' buy a $10 DP cable did the charm. much more worth my time

[fleet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dont-mean-that-sad-gif-14406298

"Just go get a phd"

[candid pilot]

not me i loveeeee math

anyways there was talk about big O earlier

it's not super hard for a lot of the typical notation you'll see. there's some ineqs with basic functions that i remember that are useful

this talks about speed of growth overall:

1 << log << sqrt << x << x^2 << n^x << x!

and you can compose these and compare them as well

like loglog << sqrtlog

loglog << log

log(x^2) << xlog(n)

um and i remember this because it's also helpful for limits

like lim h -> infty of ln(h) / sqrt(h) goes to 0

[supple mountain]

proofs pissed me off so much that i went into the dark realm of statistics instead

where we also have proofs but you can simply be an applied statistician instead and not bother with them

[candid pilot]

i couldn't i hate statistics i hate physics etc.

units piss me off i don't understand them

they dont work with my mind

#puremath

stats doesn't have a ton of units but it's annoying for other reasons

i LOVE learning about number theory though

and set theory

calculus i can tolerate

[sand frost]

Proofs are nice

You need to be able to convince people of things!

[candid pilot]

i love stuff like number theory and set theory etc. bc people'll just be like. what if i did something silly that isn't possible normally. and then they win an award or smth it's awesome

oversimplifying a ton but like

"what if 0 had a square root that wasn't itself" well someone asked that question. and it can perform automatic derivatives

(dual numbers)

[supple mountain]

the downside of statistics is i was watching some press tour stuff for a certain pop sci author with a recent book, and towards the end of one interview he said (paraphrased) "i don't take criticism to heart. for example, a review in [extremely prestigious journal] that criticized my work for conflating correlation with causation. that's just wrong - i address the issue many times in the book"

[candid pilot]

and then someone asked the same question about 1 instead of 0 and well i don't know what it does but it has a name. the split complex numbers i think

[supple mountain]

and it's like

dude

the critique

is that you literally cannot claim causality from observational and especially anecdotal data

the case might be strong, but you can't claim it's causal

i had to pop open a beer after seeing that nonsense

[candid pilot]

oh god

[supple mountain]

"the statisticians are wrong about how to interpret statistics"

i already was taking extreme umbrage with this person because the language he uses throughout literally everything in the press tour (and presumably the book) is unnecessarily gendered to the point of parody

also if you became a father for the first time at 50 i'm not confident your experiences of parenting are representative of most people

maybe the other parents in your circle are going along with your ideas because you're 25 years older than all of them and have a phd

[candid pilot]

omg

[supple mountain]

i admittedly did not read the book and have no plans to do so, but pop science books in general do not have the most rigorous citation schema

the audience for that isn't really necessitating that

[candid pilot]

yeah fair

[supple mountain]

the funniest thing that happened in one of the interviews i watched while i did online window shopping was at the start of the interview, the author was like "older generations always have beef with younger generations, specifically by calling them lazy and soft"

and then near the end of the interview he pivoted to "the older cohort of gen z, who are already adults, are never going to finish maturing and will always be less tough, disciplined, happy, and resilient than the rest of us"

hmm.

[candid pilot]

it's sorta great how accurate of a red flag this is though

[supple mountain]

interesting

[supple mountain]

famously, only boys play video games, and only girls care about what other people think of them

[candid pilot]

COME ON HE DID NOT

[supple mountain]

everyone knows this

🙃

idk as someone born in 1997 maybe it was self-harm to engage in this material at all, given it seems to exist primarily to dunk on me and everyone else my age

my justification is that i have relatives who read this stuff and like to play debate to piss me off

[candid pilot]

omg i get that so much

[supple mountain]

it's admittedly pretty easy to piss me off

intellectually

[candid pilot]

my family is so frustrating too like

[supple mountain]

i love my family but we're all very stubborn people with very strong opinions

[candid pilot]

protestant christians the lot of them. always kind of depressing to hear your grandma repeat like archaic misogyny

im not conflating misogyny with protestantism but i will say being queer i don't feel super safe around them which is really unfortunate

anyway off topic

[supple mountain]

the (on average) ideological divide between boomers and even older people is so interesting

back to statistics vs pure math vs physics vs--

[candid pilot]

im just like. is this a server where being off topic gets you in trouble bc thats been my experience in most larger servers.

[supple mountain]

i gotta brush up on my monte carlo to program my sample size estimation and i simply do not want to do it

[candid pilot]

if not please continue lol im interested

[supple mountain]

maybe mr "gen z are lamers" guy is right, but also this is the universal struggle of people writing dissertations

[candid pilot]

i mean i would say he's wrong

the like, older gen z people are weaker, sadder, etc?

[supple mountain]

it makes me extra mad bc i agree with the thesis of the new book (constant phone use is really bad for kids and teenagers) but the messenger is pretentious, self-righteous, untrustworthy on related issues, etc

[candid pilot]

idk like first of all i think it's hard to quantify any of that

ah yeah

[supple mountain]

being a Tumblr Teen™ didn't give me clinical anxiety, i inherited it and the symptoms became untenable in adolescence because that's often when that happens

but checking all my notifications right before i go to sleep is probably a bad habit

[candid pilot]

oh he's that kind of person. got it

[supple mountain]

there also seems to be this weird mandela effect where the people talking about this think that phones disrupting schools is like......... new. like, post-covid new

not sure what world those people are living in

[candid pilot]

yeah im going to be honest i don't like the effect "number goes up" has on me

[supple mountain]

i feel for educators because 2024 tiktok seems to be much more disruptive than 2012 facebook, which was much more disruptive than getting texts on a flip phone

[candid pilot]

yeah totally

sometimes i see some really funny things coming out of tiktok

[supple mountain]

i never got into it

[candid pilot]

can't and wont bring myself to get it because i know it will effect me badly

ah i should clarify

[supple mountain]

at first it was on principle, "this is just vine, but worse!"

[candid pilot]

i see tiktok stuff posted to other sites

sometimes it's really good but im just not touching that app

[supple mountain]

then i got the sense that 90% of what people are doing on tiktok is either 1) airing their own dirty laundry in a way that is unhealthy for both poster and viewer, 2) spreading disinformation, or 3) selling junk

which just doesn't interest me

[candid pilot]

yeah

[supple mountain]

it'll be interesting to see what ultimately happens with tiktok in the united states. like, personally, i don't care. public health wise, we will probably be better off without it. but a lot of industries have seen their marketing become 100% tiktok and that's gonna be, uh, a problem!

[candid pilot]

yeah and like. i don't subscribe to the "tiktok is spyware" drama. i don't like it either way right

[supple mountain]

tiktok is probably spyware but also every social media site is spyware

[candid pilot]

but also i feel like a lot of that is a product of like patriotism and maybe even just plain racism and shit

[supple mountain]

sinophobia is definitely a factor

[candid pilot]

and absolutely the US is not any better if not worse

yeah totally

[supple mountain]

i was gonna let my hair grow out until i get that diploma as like.... a mark of Suffering™, but when my mom was booking my flights for me she was like "should i make an appointment with [hairdresser]" and i was like PLEASE

i've broken two claw clips in the last month

there's too much hair

[candid pilot]

oh yeah i was growing out my hair bc i had it pretty short before and i got a haircut recently which i initially hated but like i really needed it

[supple mountain]

i have white person curly hair, so i have to spend the big bucks to get a competent cut done

[candid pilot]

same

[supple mountain]

and the last time i got my hair cut in my area of residence (as opposed to childhood hairdresser) the person cutting my hair was like "uh.... i'm not comfortable cutting your bangs. could you do that yourself?"

bruh

[candid pilot]

white person curly hair and im like the only one in my immediate family who has hair like this

OMG 😭

[supple mountain]

i might have to update my farmersona portrait depending on how much i get cut off

it's at its historical maximum length right now so no wonder it's bothering me

[candid pilot]

makes sense yeah

i've been wanting to dye my hair recently

i think like a moss green i can't stand like lime green

[supple mountain]

i'm an extremely poor candidate for hair color

[red crest]

(probably not so long as you don't do it intentionally and maliciously and ignore warnings about it but that said im pretty sure this channel is supposed to just be for programming talk)

[supple mountain]

but i'm an extremely good candidate for coloring a data table

the sample size simulation should be easy to program once i reread the reading to know what the hell i'm doing

so that's good

[candid pilot]

yay!!

the dual numbers & automatic differentiation i was talking about

here's the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_number

[supple mountain]

ah, the good ol' taylor series

[candid pilot]

i just think it's so cool that it just happens to do differentiation

like it's just, oh i wonder if another number squared equals zero

and you get fascinating math out of it. i love math

[cinder karma]

Xltabular requires three three three compiles to look right hhhhhhhhh

Chatgpt gave me a mostly mostly sane hat pattern

I think

I didn't do the math

But I asked for a hat and I did get a hat

I asked specifically for a pattern made of three parts

Usually a human designer will make them flow into each other

Chatgpt is like knit three pieces and seam

[rain apex]

atra are your knitting patterns open source

[cinder karma]

This one will be!

Well, creative commons

[sand frost]

I don't like seaming

[cinder karma]

It's a necessary evil sometimes (cotton yarn)

But I don't like it either

One reason why I want cotton/merino

[cinder karma]

\raggedright redefined \\

Scream

[worn remnant]

ah yes, one of the classic "you must be aware at all times of the implementation details" problems with (La)TeX

[safe dragon]

I'm barely aware of the implementation details of things I personally implemented

[cinder karma]

See I'm usually quite good at that

I have an exceptionally good memory

[gaunt wadi]

oh yeah???? name every cat

[rotund violet]

Memory != trivia

[cinder karma]

Casey has a cat avatar

[sand frost]

Casey’s cat is super fluffy

Good cat

[cinder karma]

Yesssss

[devout vault]

disappears into thin air yet again

[cinder karma]

This is my "fuck latex" purchase

[sand frost]

It’s true that doesn’t look like it’s made of latex at all

[thin estuary]

Got my first spicy pillow today

[lethal walrus]

fun

what's it from?

[thin estuary]

My old iPhone X

Which had a battery replaced last year

I’ve replaced the phone with an iPhone 15 Pro Max though, like, 4 months ago

Today I was doing some cleaning around the apartment and found it in a very spicy state

Had to drive 40 mins one way and then another to dispose of it