[SPOILERS] RtDL Deluxe

[ocean mauve]

ok wow i did not know that

that's really stupid but funny

[dreamy jay]

Stone is just invincible when you are in a rock form. So when you’re against magolor’s second form you can just wait for a free damage patern and do it again

[ocean mauve]

i mainly relied on sand castles anyway (i was being very campy lol)

[ocean mauve]

the hide button from leaf/sand is also invincible

except for goriath ex lol

[dreamy jay]

Not for every attack

[ocean mauve]

ohhh black holes?

ahh i just run from them but yeah i guess they do get dragged in

[faint glen]

||god

oops

[ocean mauve]

actualyl do they get lifted off the ground

[dreamy jay]

The rocks yeah

[burnt slate]

Is there a list of the ability damage numbers yet?

[dreamy jay]

For magolor’s first form

[faint glen]

||god INTERNAL STRUGGLE is so fucked||
||i think theres like . reversed CROWNED in there||

[heady relic]

there is a datamine spreadsheet of move damage and boss hp btw
||https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vfkJdzqSvzjrziXSSb2WKRRIdeLoIqVY/||

[burnt slate]

Hot

[ruby narwhal]

||not sure about that but there is a slowed down version of distant traveller||

[heady relic]

the author probably mistakenly input the HP of ||Crowned Doomer. Crowned Doomer should have 620 HP and Master Crown (which is missing in the spreadsheet) has 650 HP||

[ruby narwhal]

||wait, crowned is just a remix a remix of distant traveller oops||

[heady relic]

• If the extra mode is enabled, Base is calculated as floor(Base * 1.3).
  and this note is for mid-bosses

[faint glen]

lmao magolor can do more than fully charged hammer flip with like every move

[burnt slate]

Damb, 100 from galactic counter

[ocean mauve]

question why is ninja's air shock so good - the numbers don't look that crazy on this sheet

i mean i know it does good damage but like

[heady relic]

it's actually nerfed

[ocean mauve]

oh rly?

[heady relic]

original: 25+24 (actual combo: 25+18)
deluxe: 22+20 (actual combo: 22+15)

[ocean mauve]

ah i guess that's not too bad of a nerf

is it just because it's a really fast double attack

with both values being pretty solid

[main fractal]

Grinding egg and upgrading him is super fun

[ocean mauve]

real

[main fractal]

Replaying the mode makes me enjoy even more

[ocean mauve]

i grinded the ||mischief|| level until i maxed out everything lmao

oh wow i didn't know roll bombs are stronger than regular bombs

[main fractal]

I'm using this opportunity to get as many platinums as I can

[heady relic]

it's been like that since RtDL

[main fractal]

I got a platinum for ||4 doomers so I think I'll do fine||

[faint glen]

the mecha down up b move is over half a fully charged hammer flip

ok

[novel fog]

oh this has boss attacks too? nice

[main fractal]

Fully charged hammer is shit here

[ocean mauve]

is hammer's normal air spin better because you can spam it more?

[main fractal]

Curse Star Allies for introducing it

[heady relic]

also the deluxe hammer flip is 44/66/88 (which is missing in the spreadsheet)

[faint glen]

i do curse it

[heady relic]

no because of the boss i-frames

[faint glen]

no it isnt?

[ocean mauve]

ohhh

wait so boss i-frames are why the fast spin is bad?

[heady relic]

spamming it too fast is no good in RtDL

yeah

[ocean mauve]

ahh that makes sense

was wondering how it could be worse when it seems like it's meant to be better. that explains it

[supple scaffold]

did the original game have boss iframes?

[heady relic]

this actually buffs dedede because in the original his hammer flip only does 45

[heady relic]

yes

so if you are doing multi-player, often your attacks won't stack

[supple scaffold]

i don't hate the mechanic but I don't think I love it

[clever hull]

true arena
||This game's true arena is a joke up until that last fight||

[faint glen]

wtf is "hammeronigorosifire" if not charged hammer flip

[clever hull]

||Goodness gracious that last fight||

[heady relic]

for some reason it has leftovers of the original

[burnt slate]

Nah it's a a great mechanic
https://vxtwitter.com/Mecha_nove/status/1629623057416605696?s=19

[ocean mauve]

I've had this happen just by throwing it too early lmfao

tho that's just bc of stupid Spawning Invincibility

[clever hull]

One time I had the bomb hit the ceiling and not destroy the blocks it was supposed to

[supple scaffold]

Working As Intended 🙃

[heady relic]

Power2: Base power for boss. Newly introduced in this remake.
I don't understand why HAL made this

like they give Mecha's Faster Blaster a base power of 6, then a boss power of 3

[ocean shale]

H I

[floral mantle]

does that mean it does less damage to bosses?

[heady relic]

yes

[floral mantle]

oh I see

[supple scaffold]

whats even mecha's flowchart for dishing out damage

[heady relic]

Sizz-Zap Burst in most cases

[ocean shale]

Spoilers for post game. Mainly for the True Arena

||So I was a little hesitant in doing the extra mode since I want to save it for later and then do the True Arena, and then I found out that Magolor Soul in the True Arena has a Secret Second phase. Which looked pretty interesting.||

[heady relic]

charge blasters for opening

[supple scaffold]

Is it shock knuckle into fully charged beam or is it the fire burst

[heady relic]

quick charge blaster is needed in some cases too

it's just too complicated to speedrun imo

[ocean mauve]

what's the speedrun king rn

for arena anyway

[heady relic]

dedede?

already 12:30

[ocean mauve]

oh interesting

[main fractal]

Dedede

[supple scaffold]

I feel like short hop mine dropping SHOULD be able to do a lot of damage

[heady relic]

sadly the mines don't do much damage

[ocean mauve]

giant spin? or whatever the small one is named

[supple scaffold]

But its just too rough to do consistently

[heady relic]

actually you can cancel mines and mortars with flight

[supple scaffold]

wait really??

[lean grotto]

Also I take the other 3 are only playable single player in the arenas like in the og

[supple scaffold]

damn im gonna have to play with that

[ocean mauve]

what's the best ability then?

[heady relic]

sand

[ocean mauve]

ahh neat

[supple scaffold]

sand tornado and spark are all still cracked

[ocean mauve]

funny it's the best at hiding and the best at dealing damage

[burnt slate]

Big fist big damage

[supple scaffold]

i feel like water is also underrated

[ocean mauve]

rainbow rain is nice

[heady relic]

water is ok
tier 2 I would say

[slender compass]

I thought water was overrated

[ocean mauve]

btw what does sand do when the boss is in the air. grounded tornado or jump tornado?

[burnt slate]

Still sad they haven't brought back aerial rainbow rain

[heady relic]

dunno. I need to see more footage from sand speedrunners

[ocean mauve]

fair

[supple scaffold]

rainbow rain for damage, good ranged move thats low commitment, dash with a lot of iframes, geysers for clotheslining Goriath

[heady relic]

so far we only have a full video of wing in 14:33

[supple scaffold]

Whats not to love

[burnt slate]

Guessing it's the same strat of jump cancelled condor dives

[heady relic]

exactly

tier 0 is dedede (and hammer?) and meta knight

[ocean mauve]

is condor the diagonal one or regular one

ahh

[heady relic]

sorry regular one

[ocean mauve]

ohhh ok

was gonna say the diagonal one seems harder to spam lol

[supple scaffold]

wait meta knight feels kinda bad in this game though?

am i missing something

disclaimer: i suck at using shuttle loop

[heady relic]

shutter loop is at peak performance in RtDL

[burnt slate]

Shuttle loop is pretty broken since it gives you so much I frames

[supple scaffold]

Okay yep that would do it

[heady relic]

and now with galactic counter added

you can open a game with counter and immediately do 100 damage

[supple scaffold]

His up thrust and dash feel so much shorter/slower than SA

[novel fog]

||oh I see internal name for Magolor's Mecha move is SuperMechaFire, so they're supposed to be like Super Abilities too perhaps? interesting||

[burnt slate]

The fact that you can jump out of it as soon as you start gliding and still have a decent amount of free i-frames to do another loop is wacky

[heady relic]

speaking of which ||the spreadsheet doesn't have info of super sand. probably the author misses it||

[novel fog]

yeah, noticed that

||also wonder if Revolution Flame is separate from RevolutionBall at all or if it is under same name (similar to RevolutionAttack in original)||

||though I'd assume Revolution Flame would have fire properties at least?||

[heady relic]

||"MahoroaRevoFlame" has fire element||

[novel fog]

||is that used in the boss battle?||

[ocean mauve]

||yeah i assumed they were meant to echo super abilities since they're presented in a similar fashion. suppose it's just a hypothetical "What if sand and mecha had super abilities" thing lol||

[clever harness]

So I heard that they have special/legacy music in ||the HAL Rooms?||

[ocean mauve]

||and i suppose another way to have the final battle be a little tie-in for this whole game||

[novel fog]

||like isn't that just for playable one||

[heady relic]

||you mean the boss version? I don't know then||

[novel fog]

yeah

||the one Magolor EX uses||

[ocean mauve]

do you have a link to this actually

would like to see how the timing's supposed to be done

[heady relic]

video
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMrdBB076Po||

[ocean mauve]

thx

ok wow pretty fast

[heady relic]

actually deluxe adds the wind element to wing and and tornado so they can destroy fire blocks

you can see the wind effect when hitting an enemy

[novel fog]

yeah, tested it already

neat they added it to it

[ocean mauve]

naturally fatty puffer is who they end up taking hits on bc that puffer really is fat

[floral mantle]

lol... feesh

[main fractal]

Living up to Fatty Whales standard

[novel fog]

||https://wikirby.com/wiki/Kirby's_Return_to_Dream_Land_Deluxe/gallery|| also the credits images were added to WiKirby on the game's gallery page, if anyone wanted them

[ocean mauve]

||is magolor soul's final form theme a port of magolor's morpho theme or is it remixed?||

[novel fog]

||it has a new version in the 2nd phase where it is adjusted a bit and you can hear Magolor's voice||

[main fractal]

||I think it's slightly different? The choir sounds different and phase 2 has Magolor crying out for help probably||

[lost briar]

||overall still mostly a port||

||the phase two is just an overlay with some distortions?||

||nothing significantly new like new melodies or whatnot||

[novel fog]

||there's also a more holy/otherworldly sound to it, idk how to describe it||

[main fractal]

Also off topic but

||Since landias just chilling in Magoland does that mean they forgave magolor or some thing?||

[novel fog]

||probably, the weirder part is the fact they have the crown||

[main fractal]

||It's a burger king crown||

[ocean mauve]

||oh damn i just realized magolor soul was trying to grab onto you or something while trying to escape the dimesnion||

||is he dead in there or is he just gonna be tormented||

[main fractal]

||Something that surprised me is that Landia can't fully control the crown themselves, I hcd before that the reason they were dormant for so long was because they wouldn't have been able to control it while fully awake, I'm surprised I got it close||

[grim solstice]

when i was a kid, i thought grand doomer was a girl because i thought t(he)i(r) name was grandma doomer

[late root]

||music gets somewhat faster too||

[ocean mauve]

y'know someone mentioned female doomer headcanon and I don't remember why

but it adds up

[grim solstice]

when?

[ocean mauve]

id search for it but discord keeps "dropping the magnifying glass"

[odd rover]

Yooo same

[late root]

this is too good to be just a post game mode select screen... IT'S STILL TOO GOOD-

[odd rover]

Just pick it up stupid

[grim solstice]

?

[ocean mauve]

(discord search isn't working)

[grim solstice]

ah

[glossy jay]

Do any characters past Goriath show up in Magoland?

Or no

[late root]

||They do||

[main fractal]

||All but grand doomer||

[glossy jay]

Who else shows up

Ik every boss until world 5 shows up

Do Landia and Metal General appear

[ruby narwhal]

Yes

[glossy jay]

Anyone else?

[main fractal]

Lor

[ruby narwhal]

Technically magolor I guess

[glossy jay]

https://tenor.com/view/lel-teeth-man-laugh-gif-24159653

[late root]

lmao

[broken rune]

did the base game let you listen to sound effects in the jukebox?

[glossy jay]

Wait if I've completed one of the "true extra missions" before unlocking them

Does it automatically complete when I unlock them

[novel fog]

the original? yeah

[broken rune]

this remake sux

[novel fog]

was last game to let you do that iirc

[summer hare]

i had like 5 of them done beforehand and they all counted so i'd say so

[thin forge]

thats a thing in star allies but its just the mage sisters screams after being defeated + that one zan does that sounds kinda odd

oh, and void termina's roaring

[novel fog]

well the other games let you do that too, we're talking about individual sound effects

[thin forge]

i see

[lofty viper]

how does DDD's damage compare to Hammer's?

[novel fog]

for example, TDX had stuff like Sectonia's defeat sounds, PRB had defeat sounds for bosses like Susie, etc. in the Jukebox as songs
but they did not let you listen to individual sound effects

[ocean mauve]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vfkJdzqSvzjrziXSSb2WKRRIdeLoIqVY/edit#gid=78432847

(here's dedede and hammer)

[lofty viper]

tyvm

[ocean mauve]

np - just reposting what falco shared haha

[lofty viper]

wow damage calculation must be very weird?

because fully charged hammer flip does the same or more as Dedede as with Hammer

but in this chart it should do almost half with dedede

[ocean mauve]

ohhhh wait i think i remember why - lemme find it

[ocean mauve]

ok here

apparently in the original it was 45 which is probably why the person put that accidentally

[lofty viper]

wait so everything dedede does is weaker except for Flip??

[ocean mauve]

im actually not sure. maybe dedede's data is all botched or something - i just know falco says ddd's optimal for true arena lol

[lofty viper]

THAT'S ALL I NEED TO KNOW 😎

[ocean mauve]

the person who made the spreadsheet did say some of it may be inaccurate so maybe they pasted the wrong stuff lol

BUT it taught me that sand's golem fist is stronger when you hit the shockwave part so that's fun

[lost briar]

maybe the other characters have innate damage bonuses like SA?

which gave them inflated stats in that game lol

[faint glen]

||just realized Crossing into the Parallel with You is song 186||

||nothing can stop HAL now that theyve figured out they can turn themselves into a number||

[late root]

||oh god- they're unstoppable now :(||

[fleet prism]

Guys i

I did it guys I solved

I solved the magolor lore

I am so tired

I don't remember who where the people that actually were looking forward to this but

Let's see if this fits the discord size limit

[thin forge]

oh god

[fleet prism]

i won't accept criticism I only accept praise

[faint glen]

Very magolor of you

[fleet prism]

three fucking timelines

THREE FUCKING TIMELINES

[leaden terrace]

Three. Fucking. Timelines.

[faint glen]

Anyways banger chart

Very artistic

I like how u give up multiple times

I would 3 times, so

[fleet prism]

Man kinda crazy how fucking deep this goes

Like this this is JUST magolor

[thin forge]

i think you used the wrong image for "the crowning"

thas the wrong magolor

[fleet prism]

who

[faint glen]

Taranza and that bitch, very good

[lofty viper]

first try with ddd, look at this man

[leaden terrace]

I can't see it yet but I know it's big

[vast vapor]

awesome

[faint glen]

Did it have a different song

[lofty viper]

||non-kirby in true arena? yes it changes phase 1 and 2 of gk||

[faint glen]

||yeah i heard that
What
God
..is it the same for all 3 of em at least||

[lofty viper]

yes

[faint glen]

Aight

[fathom cradle]

||it doesn't apply to bandee||

umm akshually

[lofty viper]

what and why

[fathom cradle]

||but yeah bandee is stuck with landia/rtdl gk||

[leaden terrace]

Idk

[fathom cradle]

idk bro

idk...

[leaden terrace]

This is deescrimination

[late root]

m a g o l o r e

[leaden terrace]

What? Why aren't you guys laughing? Come on. Go on! (giant sign falls and crushes on me, causing blood to fly and splatter)

[faint glen]

https://tenor.com/view/magolor-kirby-kirby-meme-gif-24950913

[late root]

we aren't laughing bro- we're just- (starts wheezing at your corpse)

[lusty geyser]

Technically since both ||Kirby and Bandee have the normal GK theme|| it's just discrimination against small round bois

(accidentally hit enter too early)

||Small round bois not named Meta Knight anyway||

[vast vapor]

||no apple juice song remix? I hate this franchise 😤||

[junior fiber]

Susie ruining everything as always

[austere willow]

pretty good

[ocean mauve]

ok i finally get it

[fleet prism]

thank you y'all see you next week in the Taranzalore

[ocean mauve]

the 3 lines are the dimensions and it's one timeline

makes sense

mfw time travel

[fleet prism]

I was very very very close to make a fourth line

For the "remake timeline"

In which Magoland connects

but like
bro I ain't even out of high school should I really be questioning how time travel works

[fathom cradle]

i was very entertained reading that

[fathom cradle]

[austere willow]

i mean at least the time travel shenanigans dont affect the og plot

Unlike OR/AS

[ocean mauve]

i think magoland magolor is meant to be a time travel thing for sure. like he doesn't acknowledge when you've finished story mode or epilogue bc he's already been through those

[fathom cradle]

me wearing the traitor magolor mask

magolor making the traitor magolor mask

[ocean mauve]

"Kirby, you really like to hold a grudge, you know that?"

[austere willow]

no magolor would be like

[ocean mauve]

im sad there's no magolor soul mask

[fleet prism]

Bringing the Traitor Magolor mask to the main game Magolor trying to fix his ship

[austere willow]

Kirby, do you love that iconic scene of me? You really are my best friend!

whether this is genuine or sarcasm is up to you

[leaden terrace]

"Kirby, did you like that bad boy look of mine? I do admit I looked quite fancy! I wish I still did..."

[ocean mauve]

one of the things epilogue reveals that i like is that ||the whole theme park thing isn't a facade or distraction, he just genuinely likes them||

[late root]

"Let Me Explain Everything" but it's in the timeline where Magolor never wore the Master Crown lmao

[fleet prism]

wears the master mustache instead

[junior mesa]

"Bravo, Kirby! You've truly earned your reputation as a hero...
Your help defeating Landia was invaluable!"
[Roll credits]

[thin prairie]

I just 100% Deluxe

I went above and beyond and completed the true extra magoland missions

Along with everything else

[late root]

did you plat everything?

[thin prairie]

Is that an extra thing they track?

[late root]

idk

but did you plat everything just for funsies?

[thin prairie]

No

[late root]

oh ok

[thin prairie]

I’ll do that in my spare time

[rustic trellis]

“Bravo, Kirby! You’ve truly earned your reputation as a hero! Your help in defeating Landia was invaluable. Ah, at long last, the Master Crown! Obtaining this crown was my ultimate goal all along! Whats with all the weird looks? Fine, let me explain everything. You see, I actually want to sell ancient artifacts at unreasonable high prices. So i tried to fight landia myself and lost. Thats when i fled to Popstar and an great thought struck me. I could have you fight Lanida instead! Genius idea, I know. You even repaired the Lor Starcutter for me! I really did appreciate that, by the way. Anyway, MUAHAHAHAHA! The time has come for my shop… no, the ENTIRE BLACK MARKET to kneel before me. And for being such a big help, your local economy gets to go first. Prepare to bow, Popstar, and Welcome your new overlord!”

[thin prairie]

I now have the complete jutebox

[late root]

ah yes
microtransagolor

[faint glen]

|| didnt unlock them despite beating galacta ||

[junior fiber]

i wonder how the community would react if they pulled an oras lol

[late root]

Best song in magoland ngl :)

[late root]

pain for us kirby lore watchers

confusion for the diehard kirby fans

minor inconvenience for the casuals

a shot in the head for those who are getting into kirby lore for the first time

[thin prairie]

https://youtu.be/7XSqIfYJ5yQ

An amazing reward for 100% completion

[odd rover]

Man

[thin prairie]

[junior fiber]

kirby multiverse game is real and its coming

[lost briar]

people really do be throwing around multiverse

[midnight kelp]

Just saying

[junior fiber]

kirby and the multiverse of madness

oh shoot sorry for the ping

[hollow cypress]

Man the mega universe thing gave me a headache please not again

I still refuse to believe the fact that that mess is a canon plot point

[junior fiber]

kinda just wanna ignore some of the what if modes lol

like does extra mode really need to be canon, just in another dimension? probably not even what they were going for

[vapid kestrel]

"At least I became a sexy son of a bitch before I turned into Whatever the Fuck That Was"

[quartz skiff]

||magalor is evil||

Merry magaland is a scam he wants to take over the world

[maiden crane]

theres nothing in extra mode that really makes it "non canon" does it

[junior fiber]

not really, unless you count hr d3?

[shrewd turtle]

wow thanks for censoring this huge lore bomb

[cursive sandal]

extra mode isn't really canon, but isn't really noncanon either

[shrewd turtle]

extra mode isn’t canon

Is there a reason you people are saying it is?

[junior fiber]

oh i think i misread that i know its not canon

[shrewd turtle]

The fact that Magolor soul is shown at the start of magolor epilogue instead of his normal second phase look?

[maiden crane]

what makes extra mode "not canon" though

[shrewd turtle]

While definitely weird idk I’d rather assume that was a mistake since it makes literally no sense

[maiden crane]

like really i dont see why

[junior fiber]

well the main story's canon

[supple scaffold]

||Rampaging doomers no ability is brutal||

[junior fiber]

pretty much it

[odd rover]

Main mode and extra mode are the same thing “canonically” imo

[shrewd turtle]

because making it canon just over complicates things. It’s “”canon”” as another what-if scenario but that’s about it

[junior fiber]

canon is weird now

[maiden crane]

wdym "over complicates things"

the only new things extra mode changes

to the story

[cursive sandal]

the thing is, extra isn't even a "what if" scenario

[maiden crane]

is hr d3

[odd rover]

What if Kirby and his friend hand a slightly more difficult adventure

[maiden crane]

and magolor soul

[cursive sandal]

it's a modification of the main story, neither canon nor noncanon

[maiden crane]

unlike dedede tour, all meta knightmares, and guest star
all of those are a different character going through the exact same adventure, with the exact same circumstances that kirby went through
which would make no sense

[junior fiber]

i wish dedede tour was canon

[cursive sandal]

there is literally nothing that extra mode adds to the lore besides whatever pause screen lore there is

[shrewd turtle]

Because like why would we differentiate this extra mode from the other ones? I’d rather everyone just agree these extra modes are what-ifs unless it’s like FL and they’re more like canonical post game content then an extra mode

Like, yeah, RTDL extra mode doesn’t contradict with main canon, but do we really wanna start making specific case by case decisions with this shit?

[maiden crane]

extra mode can be canon because theres no shit that contradicts it

the rest i listed do

[shrewd turtle]

yeah but like can we not lmao

[maiden crane]

putting all the extra modes under an umbrella is like asking to put all the side stories of a thing as non canon

[junior fiber]

what does having two canon canons even entail

[odd rover]

Funny thing about that

[maiden crane]

when said side stories can be canon as long as they are not contradictions

[shrewd turtle]

exactly like whar

[shrewd turtle]

Side stories are new stories, extra mode is just main mode with a few alterations. It’s easier to say a side story is canon because it’s a different occurrence

[maiden crane]

extra mode being the main story with minor changes is why we can reason its canon

[shrewd turtle]

With extra mode we have to write some bullshit like “they’re BOTH canon in different timelines guys x3” and at that point let’s just say every extra mode is canon and make a kirby multiverse

[maiden crane]

no we dont...

?

we can just

assume the main story "isnt canon"

and by that i mean

[brave crag]

We should say that though. All Guest Stars are canon. Do not @ me.

[maiden crane]

literally just have hr d3 be a thing

and also magolor soul

[shrewd turtle]

no what main story is the canon one it’s the main story

hr d3 can still exist in main canon the same way DMK in triple deluxe did

[odd rover]

Gameplayrain You’ve played Magolor Epilogue correct

[shrewd turtle]

it exists we just don’t see it during main canon

[maiden crane]

ive seen the cutscenes

[vapid kestrel]

I still personally think ||true arena version of the magolor soul fight is the canon one||

[maiden crane]

i havent played it cause i dont own the game

[vapid kestrel]

Oh ok that just doesn't work

[junior fiber]

guest star is canon you can access those playthroughs with AD

[shrewd turtle]

how

[ocean mauve]

It makes me sad so I refuse to believe it!

[odd rover]

Funny thing

Hey question that kinda relates to the epilogue but not really is ||Magolor EX in the RTDL novel?||

[maiden crane]

cant ||any of the magolor fights be canon because its basically the same save for how True Magolor Soul dies||

[shrewd turtle]

||do the EX variants show up in the novels?||

[shrewd turtle]

whar

[vapid kestrel]

||Tbh I don't understand why people see the new TA ending and don't think that's what led to Magolor Epilogue
I guess the difference is that you don't see the crown shattering in the TA ending?||

[odd rover]

I know that ||Magolor Soul overrides Magolor phase 2||

[maiden crane]

that could be what happens in the story honestly

||thematically theres like 0 difference between soul and phase 2||

[odd rover]

||And souls design is better so I’m glad to call it canon||

[shrewd turtle]

||because we see magolor go through a portal in the main game too. And at the beginning of epilogue we see magolor in his base form being transported into the events of epilogue, while I do think his TA death animation is leading into something judging by how the beginning of epilogue literally shows his normal game death animation rather then the TA one I don’t think it’s the one canon to epilogue||

[near kraken]

So.. ||is the Master Crown essentially another form of Dark Matter? I know it's a stupid question, but the eye in the tree design got me thinking....||

[odd rover]

No

[junior fiber]

||i wonder what they were doing with the TA magolor death scene||

[shrewd turtle]

||there are many similarities with the crown to dark matter but we don’t know the extent of them or what they even really mean yet||

[shrewd turtle]

yeah same honestly it’s really interesting

[ocean mauve]

||tbh i feel like the apple he throws at you would be a callback to epilogue since that's when magolor became linked with apples but idk||

[near kraken]

||I do feel like it does get a little cleared up in the epilogue||

[austere willow]

how does it not

[junior fiber]

||i like to think the crown was made with Dark Matter but admittedly i dont think the epilogue touches on that idea really||

[vapid kestrel]

But we don't see Magolor go through a portal in the main game, he just turns transparent and fades away
||Like I sure didn't question how that animation could lead into Magolor Epilogue but compared to seeing Magolor Soul getting sucked into a portal in combination with Magolor Epilogue specifically showing that the Soul design is canon over the main story design, feels like the point is that the TA ending is what leads into M.E||

[austere willow]

||I think there's too much emphasis on 'breaking the thing on my head' in the desc + the death animation specifically not showing it makes me beleive thats the intention of the animation||

also the og RtDL had magolor fade away and we accepted THAT as getting sent to another dimension or whatever

[odd rover]

||The crown simply amplifies the darkness within the victim||

[austere willow]

especially since thats specifically what Kuma said innit

[ocean mauve]

||tho this time we literally see him go to another dimension again. but it may not be the epilogue one||

[vapid kestrel]

||Actually I'm fucking stupid the ME opening literally shows the extra mode death animation and not the TA death animation||

[shrewd turtle]

maybe it’s just me but it feels like a weird design decision to show an extra mode specific thing when you unlock epilogue after beating main game. If THAT was there way of saying extra mode is actually the canonical one then I’m not a fan, although I’m not really a fan of making extra mode the canon one in the first place so maybe this is a me problem

[junior fiber]

i just find it hard to comprehend all these modes or just one of them (the extra mode/TA) leading into ME

[rustic trellis]

Extra Mode as a whole might not be "canon" but Magolor Soul probably is

[vapid kestrel]

Tbh I haven't even read all the pause descs for this game yet I should actually like
Fully experience this game first

[shrewd turtle]

Yeah this feels overly complicated for no reason, I don’t blame you guys for saying this though why is HAL going this route

[shrewd turtle]

like this is probably true and I’m just like why

[austere willow]

idk. why not

[shrewd turtle]

why would HAL do that it feels a lot more vague and annoying then just saying ME takes place after main mode lmao

[austere willow]

cuz like Extra Mode plays out directly like the normal mode

[junior fiber]

SA but guest star was the canon mode

[rustic trellis]

I mean with the introduction of the multiverse literally anythings possible

[odd rover]

Extra Mode is just a harder version of the main game idk why everyone’s panicking over its “canonicity”

[rustic trellis]

Dededetour can finally be canon

[shrewd turtle]

exactly and I hate that I really hope this doesn’t become a major thing in the future

I’m fine with magolor fucking with the clashverse but I hope it stays at that lol

[odd rover]

And the only thing is ||Magolor Soul overriding Magolor phase 2||

[rustic trellis]

The best thing about the multiverse is its another sliver of evidence that Battle Royale happened in the Anime Universe

[lost briar]

can't believe that canonically Whispy EX was the first boss

[ocean mauve]

||me when we get Magolor Epilogue 2 where magolor lost his eyes and he thinks "damn i'm really in for it now!"||

[lost briar]

i mean i suppose regular, non-EX Landia is still canon anyway

[shrewd turtle]

lmao

I can’t believe Landia randomly turned blue for a few minutes in canon no way guys

dooter mustache is the way it’s always been dooter was never cleanly shaven

[austere willow]

doesnt he turn back the og color

[rustic trellis]

If i had to guess, everything Landia and before that is Main Mode canon, and Lor onwards is Extra mode canon

[junior fiber]

[lost briar]

he also starts out as the regular color because they sure as hell weren't reanimating all those cutscenes with him swapped out

[odd rover]

Y’all overcomplicating this

[ocean mauve]

i know magolor soul is like CALLED a different name and has a different color. but is there any meaningful difference other than that

[rustic trellis]

I mean we can call it a night and say both

[junior fiber]

ok yeah idc they're all canon this is getting too complicated

[shrewd turtle]

again this might be true and I can see HAL doing it but fucking why why would they do this instead of just sticking to main mode being canon and extra mode being extra mode

[lost briar]

canonically Magolor transformed into Traitor Magolor who then transformed into Traitor Magolor EX who then transformed into Magolor Soul

[shrewd turtle]

math is math type beat

[ocean mauve]

i want kumazaki to say "Every game and every mode is canon except avalanche"

[shrewd turtle]

NOT AVALANCHE

no specifically avalanche avalanche is the most canon

[rustic trellis]

Avalanche never happened

[ocean mauve]

[lilac arch]

tbh pretty sure magolor soul was only chosen for the cutscene because it is the more memorable design

[austere willow]

eh

[junior fiber]

only the whispy fight from avalanche is canon nothing else

[odd rover]

Literally the only thing is ||Magolor Soul overriding Magolor phase 2|| and that’s not hard to understand

[rustic trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546 Avalanche isnt real

[thin prairie]

[austere willow]

its definitely more evil looking but i find that design Dull

[odd rover]

The entire series never happened guys sorry

Nothing is canon

Go home

[late root]

NOOOOOO! AAAAHH- dies

[rustic trellis]

Guys the entire series is a dream, the spring breeze blew kirby in a little too hard and he fell in a coma

[lilac arch]

also wasn't it canon in the rtdl novel

[ocean mauve]

ok agreed with clay

main mode magolor final phase looks sick as fuck

[odd rover]

Yeah it was an idea from the light novels

[austere willow]

like potentially

[odd rover]

And idk if Magolor EX was also there

[lilac arch]

novel, idk why I said manga

[austere willow]

the og game is what happens like thats it but potentially RtDL DX couldve retconned for Extra Mode to matter more because Magolor Soul is a more important happening

idk. who knows.

[thin prairie]

What if Kirby was like touhou and fanon is canon as long as it fit?

[austere willow]

what we DO know

is they chose Magolor Soul as the start of Magolor Epilogue

[pure lagoon]

||Is this game's true arena hard? Just for personal context the only true arena I've beaten without amiibo cheats is Triple Deluxe||

[rustic trellis]

Is there anything different between EX and normal besides color?

[lost briar]

the answer is that Magolor Epilogue is only canon to extra mode

[austere willow]

its like Triple Deluxe

[rustic trellis]

If not, might be hard to tell due to the novels black and white pictures

[odd rover]

Anyway this means that we can use the light novels as a valid reference

[junior fiber]

quite i'd say

[rustic trellis]

Not impossible, just slightly harder

[shrewd turtle]

[lost briar]

||thus Clash is still not canon to main story||

[ocean mauve]

maybe only the ending of true arena (original game) is canon lol

[shrewd turtle]

Balance is restored

[odd rover]

Iirc there are colored versions

Are there?

[junior fiber]

aeon hero back to non canon purgatory

[odd rover]

Ok gtg

[rustic trellis]

Id say true arena is like robobot, but with no bs instakill attack and star dreams time is split across like 7 bosses because star dream takes eons

[junior fiber]

would be funny if they did a star dream again lmao

[junior mesa]

(technically Star Dream's attack isn't actually insta-kill, it just does a lot of damage )

[junior fiber]

5 phase magolor fight

[pure lagoon]

Tbh I thought that most of Robobot's true arena bosses were EASIER than Triple Deluxe's but then the very end is just.... what

[rustic trellis]

Robobots True Arena is easy until you get to the slog that is star dream

[ocean mauve]

if i can't cheese star dream with wheel then what's the point

[rustic trellis]

the difficult part is your patience waning after doing a star dream attemept

[junior mesa]

honestly the star dream fight wasn't hard at all for me when i revisited the PRB TA

[ocean mauve]

fr im not spending 20 minutes to die to a cat again

[pure lagoon]

I cheeses it wuth amiibo lmao

[rustic trellis]

Its not DIFFICULT

Its just LONG and TEDIOUS

[junior mesa]

you can shorten the time somewhat if you're smart about your meteor meter thing

can actually save quite a bit of time

[rustic trellis]

also i thought for a second you said you only beat TDX with amiibo cheese and was like "Wait, amiibo cant be used in TDX..."

[junior mesa]

oh, tdx didn't have amiibo?
I don't have any so i never tested

the thought never crossed my mind lol

[pure lagoon]

It was made before

[rustic trellis]

Amiibo werent really a thing at TDX's release

[pure lagoon]

Smash 4 hadnt come out yet

[rustic trellis]

god what a wild time to be alive

[pure lagoon]

I was young lad back then

[junior mesa]

depends
definitely not the hardest TA, but it does demand some attention from the bosses
most bosses can go down pretty quickly, so prioritize not taking damage over being sloppy / risky and you'll prolly be okay

[ocean mauve]

also btw luke if you want TA to not be hard i'd go with sand. doesn't even need amiibo

[rustic trellis]

i say that but it hasnt even been 10 years yet, only 9

[pure lagoon]

A mere second grader(i beat the true arena like a year ago)

[rustic trellis]

I would recommend dedede but you cant use non-kirbies until you beat it once

[pure lagoon]

Nah I don't mind it being hard I just like to know the comparisons lol

[rustic trellis]

I beat TDX true arena in 4th grade iirc

[ocean mauve]

dedede's broken move (the jump) is tricky to time properly when you're doing it in a row

lmao fair

idek how hard it actually is because for like all of the last fight i just hid with sand

[rustic trellis]

First one i did

[junior mesa]

i ended up first-trying this TA, so
definitely not the hardest of the series methinks lol
(altho I had the benefit of ||having seen TA Magolor footage ig||)

[ocean mauve]

only took damage at the end when i got greedy and started jumping at him to kill him

[pure lagoon]

I beat it in 10th grade. 8 years after I thought I'd never touch the game again.

[rustic trellis]

Dedede is such a fun character for TA

[thin prairie]

I cheesed it with Sand

[rustic trellis]

Ended up accidentally no-hitting Magolor Soul

[ocean mauve]

same

[pure lagoon]

I cheesed kirby triple deluxe with hammer

[junior mesa]

I just used Ninja

[ocean mauve]

i feel dirty seeing all of these cool ass attacks and i'm just hiding in a lump of sand

[thin prairie]

Fr

[junior mesa]

can't believe y'all would cheat the TA

smh my head

[ocean mauve]

I'd never!

[rustic trellis]

I mean i wouldnt really count it as cheese unless you used infinite i-frames
like archer, leaf, or bell

[ocean mauve]

Sand is balanced and based

[shrewd turtle]

holy shit hey Ari lmao

[lilac arch]

man how long till someone mods epilogor into true arena

[thin prairie]

Oh hi Lunar

[shrewd turtle]

ikr I’m sad you can’t play as him in the arenas

[ocean mauve]

ok fr im disappointed ||that magolor isn't playable in the arenas. i get he's broken but BRUH!||

[pure lagoon]

When I had first played i remember I wouldn't use copy abilities and only go on offense because I thought I was being smart and efficient. I wouldn't say I ruined my experience but dang did I know how to make my experience worse 💀

[rustic trellis]

that makes me wonder if people modded Dedede/MK into TDX/Robobot arenas

[pure lagoon]

I wouldn't be surprised if they made it a free update or something

[lilac arch]

there was a MK into Robobot true arena mod

[rustic trellis]

TDX getting almost 0 love from modders moment

[lost briar]

TD just doesn't get a lot of love in general

[lilac arch]

as for balancing magolor could start out with no upgrades but still earn magic points from combos to use in the rest areas

[lost briar]

its just kinda the middle child of the modern games

[rustic trellis]

TDX will still be my favorite modern game

[pure lagoon]

Also tdx wasn't my first actually. Kirby rtdl was my first game in general even outside kirby but I was bad and would have my brother carry me in 2 player

[rustic trellis]

And will always be my favorite if we count FL as the start of a new era

[junior mesa]

Ninja doesn't feel as powerful as it was in OG
Quad Shock and Air Drop(?) are both still solid moves, though
and Stealth Slash & Smoke Screen are both good evading moves
it's a fun ability to do TA with (except for Sphere Doomers, they move around so much that it's easy to just keep getting smacked into them w/ Ninja)

[rustic trellis]

My first kirby game was rtdl, and the first thing my friend did when i played for the first time was force me to fight magolor

So the plot twist never affected me

[junior mesa]

but I like how it's a balance between power and also
not great defensively

[pure lagoon]

I got attached to magolor actually the twist very much affected me 😔

[junior mesa]

low i-frames on smokescreen and blossom storm being terrible to try and use for i-frames

[rustic trellis]

I like how in DX the worse you are at the game the more effective the twist is

Thanks helper magolor very cool

[lost briar]

i mean i would have loved to have magolor playable in main modes and sub-games but as soon as i saw him in Ninja Dojo i lost hope for that

[pure lagoon]

I was so young and I remember i was like "I liked it better when he was good ):" and my brother, frustrated at my inability to understand basic story telling, was like "HE WAS PRETENDING TO BE GOOD"

[rustic trellis]

I wish P1 could be other characters in magoland

[neat path]

I wish P1 could be other characters in main mode, lol.

[rustic trellis]

I remember we killed landia and then i was like "who tf is this guy" cause Let me Explain Everything was the first time I had seen magolor

[junior mesa]

p1 being other characters in main mode / ex causes a lot of problems

[lilac arch]

it's funny how the magolor twist made most players(reasonably) hate him but actually ended up being what cemented my love for the character

[junior mesa]

namely that the AD sections are built specifically for no-copy Kirby to pass through

• most puzzles are built around using copy abilities (or at least a large portion are)
• Ultra Abilities

[humble crest]

Bro same ahaha, when i played rtdl on my old wii as a child i remember being shocked by how he betrayed kirby after everything he did for him lol

[pure lagoon]

Anyways even though my brother has long since moved away I am so happy that I can play this game again even if its by myself. Wii doesn't work well now and we haven't touched it in years lmao

[rustic trellis]

Good thing point 1 is invalidated by point 3

[shrewd turtle]

Since I grew up with knowing about marx magolors twist didn’t effect me at all, I think when I first saw it I was like “oh so he’s like marx?” lmao

of course now I know they’re two different kinds of evil spherical shitheads that I love for widely different reasons

[thin prairie]

I never hated Magolor, but I never really appreciated him until Magolor Epilogue

[solar harbor]

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[junior mesa]

it really isn't

[solar harbor]

I FINISHED MAGOLOR EPILOGUE

MY MIND WAS FUCKING OVERWHELMED SO I DIDN'T COME IN THE THREAD AT FIRST

[rustic trellis]

I mean, cant go to AD without using Super Abilities

[pure lagoon]

Rtdl was my first kirby game ever so like(first GAME ever), Magolor's twist ruined me.

[junior mesa]

yeah but just ignoring AD because super abilities is like
just skipping the spheres in there entirely

ultra & AD sections can be large chunks of the game in total, so they'd have to have some overall workaround for both entering and traversing AD

[shrewd turtle]

Honestly when you really think about what haltmann enterprises has done and how Susie seemingly never stopped their fucked up business practices even after she took over susie is a WAY more unlikable character then magolor, Magolor was just more outwardly malicious

[lilac arch]

I think I already knew about marx prior to rtdl but magolor's betrayal somehow still managed to surprise me

[pure lagoon]

Idk if I agree with that

[shrewd turtle]

not that I dislike Susie I love how she’s casually a terrible person and everyone in universe kinda ignores it

[rustic trellis]

Taranza is easily the villain furthest up on the good spectrum

[junior mesa]

tbf Marx & Mag are the only 2 real "haha i was evil all along!!" villains

[rustic trellis]

||Also i love magolors lines for upgrading, like the "Now I can go soaring with my.... friends...." line||

[shrewd turtle]

Besides dedede yeah Taranza is the opposite of mags, he was betrayed instead of betraying anyone

[pure lagoon]

The thing about Magolor is... Return to Dreamland is wholesome even by series standards. These four people, who have even fought in the past, are all coming together to help Magolor.

[vale river]

There it is, the menu theme I've been missing

It takes a LOT more to get it this time around 😭

[rustic trellis]

Taranza really only causes problems in the clashverse

Other than that hes a good boi

[wise roost]

Taranza still kind of helped trap the people of the sky, he wasn’t like brainwashed

[rustic trellis]

I mean he wasnt brainwashed but he was likely threatened

Which is more than susie can say

[shrewd turtle]

yeah true I can see why the magolor twist affected people it just didn’t personally hit me, it’s a good twist though and I think it’s handled a lot better then marxs

I LOVE marx but not for the reasons I love magolor, Magolor is a real shithead for what he did especially since he’s actually amazing at lying; his dialogue really makes him seem like he likes Kirby (at least in the main games)

[junior mesa]

wasn't he under some form of control? could've sworn an interview or smthn somewhere mentioned something light like that

[solar harbor]

THIS WAS MY ENTIRE FUCKING THOUGHT PROCESS IN MY PRIVATE SERVER WHEN I WAS DOING MY BLIND PLAYTHROUGH OF MAGOLOR EPILOGUE WHAT THE FUCK

(I'm using Tupperbox to simulate I'm playing with friends)

(WARNING: LARGE FILE)

[broken rune]

||dunno if it's a coincidence or not, but the max combo you can get in the magolor room is 86||

[pure lagoon]

Also, people in general feel a stronger bond to those they help than those that help them. So like, we feel all the more attached to magolor since we feel like we're helping someone unfortunate.

[rustic trellis]

I think i remember them mentioning that he "broke free" of something after sectionia blasted him

[junior mesa]

yeah

[glossy mortar]

definitely not a coincidence

[pure lagoon]

||Whats 86 got to do with it though||

[rustic trellis]

funny hal number

[solar harbor]

||I STILL CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE IT'S A KIRBY CLASH PREQUEL, I WAS EXPECTING IT TO END WITH HIM RETURNING TO MERRY MAGOLAND||

[glossy mortar]

||in japanese, 8 and 6 are pronounced "haru", like hal which is also pronounced "haru" in japanese||

[solar harbor]

||Which means Microtransagolor and Magolor are retconned to be one and the same, instead of the former being an AU version of Magolor||

[glossy mortar]

MICROTRANSAGOLOR?

[near kraken]

||SO IS IT MAINLINE OR NOT???????||

[solar harbor]

||I MEAN, IT'S STILL A SPINOFF, LMAO||

[neat path]

He broke free of the idea that the old Sectonia would ever return

[glossy mortar]

||PROBABLY||

[solar harbor]

||But it fully confirms at this point that the Kirby Clash and the Mainline Kirby universes are fully connected||

[glossy mortar]

||it's definitely connected to the mainline universe but that doesn't necessarily make it mainline itself||

[pure lagoon]

||Tbh I prefer microtransagolor for the sole reason that we already have many blue kirby characters so green feels refreshing😭||

[glossy mortar]

||WHY ARE WE CALLING HIM MICROTRANSAGOLOR||

[shrewd turtle]

||actually this has always been canon, it was confirmed in either an art book or interview (can’t remember which) that was released close to clashes release. It’s just knowledge we can find in the games now which is definitely nice, I hate looking through interviews for lore that should be in the fucking game lmao||

[pure lagoon]

||I usually just say shopkeeper magolor||

[shrewd turtle]

||so nothing was retconned green magolor has always been the same as main canon magolor||

[glossy mortar]

||it was established that magolor became microtransagolor by some interdimensional travel means methinks||

[solar harbor]

||Lalalala, he scams your real world Philippine pesos and US dollars for gem apples and revives||

[pure lagoon]

Also hate to be a hater but....
||God i wish we actually saw Kirby forgive Magolor||

[junior mesa]

||yeah, it was in a nintendo dream iirc
but its an obscure interview that isn't as well-known by the wider fanbase where it confirmed that it was canon Magolor||

[lilac arch]

||he also goes back to his older outfit if you buy every item from the shop and references the events of rtdl||

[glossy mortar]

||which kind of established from the beginning that he was the same guy imo||

[pure lagoon]

||the green is just so fresh i love it||

[junior mesa]

||he's also the only character in the Dream Kingdom / clash-verse that calls Kirby by "Kirby of the Stars" in JP, which also proves that he knows the original Kirby & his original title.||

[glossy mortar]

new name

[shrewd turtle]

||honestly I saw that as a reference and nothing more but knowing what I know now yeah it was definitely meant to heavily imply they were the same. I’m happy it’s a lot more concrete now||

[solar harbor]

Also what does everyone think about the Jukebox titles?

||Can't believe the translators actually nailed the song titles for Magolor Epilogue too, Malus Pumila right in the name||

[rustic trellis]

Cant really compain, its not under my control after all

[solar harbor]

HUH

What's the title this time

And I assume CROWNED is the same

[rustic trellis]

CROWNED is CROWNED

Under My Control is Welcome your new Overlord

[solar harbor]

WELCOME YOUR NEW OVERLORD???? HAHAHAHAHHAH

THAT'S FUCKING SICK

I think that's the same dialogue he said in Let Me Explain Everything

[rustic trellis]

"Another Dimenion" is Fly, Kirby! (THOUGH IT SHOULD BE Fly, Kirby of the Stars!)

"Looming Darkness" is Another Dimension

Though we knew that one for while

[solar harbor]

I was hoping for something way more cooler than that tbh, but eh. I guess that's for consistency with Kirby of the Stars being titled Kirby in English games

[thin forge]

me waiting for an update that adds the soul boss masks + void termina and fecto elfilis

wow that was a late reply i didnt even see the time

[pure lagoon]

Anyways #MakeMagolorBeThePrimaryShopkeeperInAnyFutureKirbyGamesWhereThereIsAShopMechanicPresentEvenIfThereAreNoMicrotransactions

[thin forge]

i mean

his rep is ruined due to

microtransagolor

his gem apple-peddling alter ego

[pure lagoon]

He did well enough for them to bring the game to Switch

[vapid kestrel]

Back to translating

[rustic trellis]

fatty buffer

Cant wait for lore to say that fatty puffer was born from void termina because he eats and sleeps all day

[pure lagoon]

I think my love hate relationship with magokor is now just a love relationship

[solar harbor]

By the way ||Mistilteinn|| is a ||sword in Norse mythology||

||Which ties further into the fact Magolor uses his version of Ultra Sword to destroy the Master Crown for good||

[thin forge]

||void termina solos||

[pure lagoon]

||I realized now that mistilteinn is probably a nod to dark nebula||

[austere willow]

FATTY PUFFER IS KIRBY'S DAD

[thin forge]

wrong, meta knight

(adopted)

[austere willow]

bites you

bites you

[thin forge]

what does this mean

what did @austere willow mean by this

[lilac arch]

||It was also used to slay several kings, which fits with the crown theme||

[solar harbor]

||That's fucking insane||

Random thing but you could probably connect Ironmouse's lore as an archangel with the events of Magolor Epilogue and it wouldn't look out of place.

[austere willow]

who

[solar harbor]

https://twitter.com/henxtie/status/1484876458564931589/

Like look at this design

Henriette 🌸 (@henxtie)

VTuber model for @ironmouse
Had a great time drawing an angelic Mousey! 🌸

Likes

15701

Retweets

1165

Twitter · Jan 22, 2022, 1:11 PM

Literally Magolor Epilogue boss

[austere willow]

i ** ** see

[thin forge]

what

[lofty condor]

Angelic Mousey

That’s Elfilis.

[solar harbor]

LMAO TRUE

[glossy jay]

Any tips for Crackity Hack

I'm tryna do the 3 wins in a row challenge

[solar harbor]

Imagine her song title goes something like "HEAVEN AND HELL'S EPILOGUE - SATANAEL'S JUDGMENT OVER THE CROWNED OVERLORD"

[glossy jay]

And can't land the final hit thing

[solar harbor]

HAL don't do this btw

[solar harbor]

I think you may wanna ask this in #1019293243944476672 just to be safe

You're in spoilery territory

And discussing about sub-games is not spoilers lol

[solar harbor]

While the etymology for this one is obvious, CROWNED OVERLORD already pertains to Magolor

[fathom cradle]

me seeing you have 1 hour

[rustic trellis]

everyone knows reading pause descriptions is 90% of the playtime

with the other 9% being magoland and 1% being the actual game

[worldly burrow]

do these threads get archived

[solar harbor]

That's me with Magolor Epilogue tbh

I had a gut feeling the pause description pertaining to the ||Rampaging Doomers|| is badly translated though

||Also btw I like how the used The Shape of a Heart from Star Allies for the stage results theme, that song's the most chill||

[vapid kestrel]

King I probably won't actually play this game til next week or some shit I'm so fucking tired help

Funny monke descs

[solar harbor]

RETURN TO MONKE...

[vapid kestrel]

I'm so mad they killed the funny last line of the EX desc

[late root]

||Ah yes, Kiyoshi Hazemoto, the Super Kirby Clash remix guy||

||That's why the music style is so familliar...||

[junior mesa]

can anyone that's more familiar with JP than me help translate this?
been looking over the Kumazaki quote for TKCD that mentioned that Clash Magolor was the same as Mainline Magolor & there are some lines that confuse me a little.

namely "「ボクの名前はマホロア!」 って言うところも 含めてパラレルですね。" and "(...)パラレルではあ るもののあくまで本人としての登場にな ります。"

"プププ王国自体が別の世界 観の物語なので、彼が以前(「星のカー ビィWii」の物語における) の罪滅ぼし をしているのかというと、それは違いま すね。" also confuses me too... is he trying to say that he doesn't need to atone in this game because he hasn't done anything bad in this world yet...?

Like, I think I understand the two former points (generally?), but I'm having trouble finding a faithful way to translate them all into English.

If there are already translations out there for the interview that would also be appreciated. Thanks

[solar harbor]

||Are his music notes colored white?||

||Unless if the white notes are just outsider composers like in Dream Buffet||

[fathom cradle]

Busy Faye

[lost briar]

yes all non-HAL composers have white notes

there's Amazing Mirror music that's directly ported in-game and it uses white notes

[solar harbor]

So said composer who did ||Another Domination|| is from Vanpool?

[solar harbor]

||Also lmao yeah, it's the secret song for Crackity Hack||

[vapid kestrel]

Funny yellow ball

[solar harbor]

Faye I noticed something, the detail of Grand Doomer being the leader of all the Doomers has been swapped over from its EX description

I believe that detail was Japanese-only in the original Wii version, but that was finally rectified in English in the new pause description on the remake

[vapid kestrel]

It's a parallel (world), including the scene where he says "My name is Magolor!"
Although it is a parallel (world), they're still appearing as their actual self.
Since the Pupupu Kingdom itself is an AU story, to say he's atoning for his past (in regards to the story of "Kirby's Return to Dream Land"), it's not like that.

[junior mesa]

Thank you! 👍

[leaden terrace]

"nobody here knows what I did so it's not like I have to atone for my sins here too" Magolor logic

[solar harbor]

BTW does anyone know if Magolor still mentions "clockwork stars and magical star rods" in Extra Mode?

[leaden terrace]

Not that I heard of

[thin prairie]

He does when you talk to him after getting all spheres

[solar harbor]

At least in the Switch version?

[fathom cradle]

Yes he does still say that

[solar harbor]

Amazing

[late root]

yes, he is

[solar harbor]

Figured

[thin forge]

i asked the "final boss battle royale" question a day or so ago, but now with the addition of ||master crown itself||, where does it rank on the scales

[solar harbor]

It is ranked for me as ||GOD SAVE US ALL||

[leaden terrace]

||Tbh he died to Magolor I don't think he's that strong||

||the red fruit may have a good deal of energy but it clearly doesn't seem to be enough for master crown to last that long against Magolor||

[thin forge]

||i give it 4th place, behind morpho knight, fecto elfilis, and void termina||

[junior mesa]

clearly dedede > everyone else

[thin forge]

he was kicked out for being too op

[leaden terrace]

||I'd put it behind sectonia honestly lol. At least she has the persistence||

[thin forge]

thats fair

but ||sectonia is like, near the bottom because she cant really do anything to move around||

[leaden terrace]

||it prob gets much stronger the more negativity its host as which was why the tree and landia wasn't so strong but Magolor, someone who's evidently got many flaws deep in him as well as powerful magic is extremely powerful||

||Landia is a heroic and righteous dragon, the red fruits not even a living being||

[leaden terrace]

||depending on how you see it, sectonia can really move herself around as shown in the final boss fight where she slinks to the side of the platforms||

Maybe as much as the dreamstalk allows it at least

[thin forge]

yeah

[junior mesa]

So I tried to translate the 2017 interview to the best of my ability (with obvious help w/ the sentences I was confused about )
Would this be accurate to the original message? I wanted it to be less of a straight-and-narrow translation and more understandable in English.

[thin forge]

otherwide she dies

from ||ripping herself off it||

[leaden terrace]

Well that's soul, idk if that counts

[solar harbor]

||Soul of Sectonia can persist for god knows how long despite ripping off from the Dreamstalk||

||Because funni Miracle Fruit||

[leaden terrace]

And that too lol

[thin forge]

i guess we can count soul forms, in which case ||void still stomps lmao||

[astral shard]

Magolor Epilogue Spoilers:
||So the OST for the Master Crown fight is called; "Mistilteinn, Tree Crown without a ruler." What the heck does Mistelteinn reference to?||

[solar harbor]

||It's a sword in Norse mythology||

[leaden terrace]

I feel like void can't do too much, especially if the bosses figure out his weakness

[solar harbor]

||Which also pertains to Magolor using his version of Ultra Sword against Master Crown.

Also the Mistelteinn was used to slay kings, and ties into the crown theme of Magolor Epilogue.||

[junior mesa]

if you mean weakness as in friendship then I feel like most kirby bosses are already the opposite to that

[thin forge]

for one, none of the other guys really have the power of friendship n stuff

[leaden terrace]

Then Magolor can do the job lol

[thin forge]

what

[leaden terrace]

He can exploit friendship all he wants that is simply how he is (don't take this too seriously)

[thin forge]

oh right

hes a devious little kinder surprise egg

[leaden terrace]

But yeah that's true

That is something I kind of overlook (honestly I stopped caring about the friendship stuff)

The only char we know who even has like the implications of having such power is Morpho and even then he doesn't use it again

[solar harbor]

||Also I was wondering, in the Kirby Clash universe Magolor found his way there. I wonder how did he get back to Dream Land to do his part as a Dream Friend in Kirby Star Allies.

But Magolor Epilogue does explain now how Magolor got his Gem Apple Bombs in Kirby Fighters 2 and Kirby Star Allies, since the events of RtDL happen way before Star Allies happened.

I'd imagine it'd go like this: you complete all missions and 100% complete Super Kirby Clash, Magolor decides to don his old outfit, then some time later before Star Allies he goes back to Dream Land (method is unclear, the Black Mirror was already destroyed, but a dimensional rift is very likely), and is able to use his knowledge from both universes to fight with Kirby and friends as a Dream Friend.||

[thin forge]

||if you upgrade the air dodge to the max he says something about using it to go to other worlds||

[solar harbor]

||Oh my god that could be it, a souped-up version of Dimensional Vanish might help him travel back to Dream Land that way||

[leaden terrace]

||What if that's what hed been growing the gem apples for lol.||

[thin forge]

are they edible

[junior mesa]

||tbh i think he already has plenty of gapples
(yes they are edible)||

[leaden terrace]

I mean

Susie eats it

[junior mesa]

^

[leaden terrace]

U eat it to revive urself

[thin forge]

can they be

made into smoothies

[leaden terrace]

She made it into sherbets so why not

[junior mesa]

||So much power! Better stop here. If this attack
gets any stronger, I could end up warping to
other worlds! Ooo, scary.||

[leaden terrace]

Ooo, scary.

[thin forge]

Ooo, scary.

[late root]

Ooo, scary.

[vapid kestrel]

Funny robot

[late root]

||discount star dream smh||

[ocean mauve]

ok English translation went hard on the last line for ex

[solar harbor]

HEARTLESS MACHINE

[vapid kestrel]

Wait actually I am questioning what the last sentence actually says

[lost briar]

||The most basic thing is that Mistiltein means mistletoe in Norse
mistletoes are basically just plants that grow on trees, which the Crown imitates by taking the form of a wreath wrapped around the tree

the parts of plants where the crown is located are also called tree crowns in real life

and also yeah the double meaning of it being a sword's name in Norse mythology||

[vapid kestrel]

I assumed りかい was 理解 but what if its 理会 and I’m misunderstanding the sentence structure

Wait fuck ok I kinda just went with how they translated bc I didnt think about it enough but I was like

Really confused by the wording because of that

[magic gate]

apparently it could also be from ||Mistletoe as the master crown is growing on the tree in the same way as mistletoe. Mistletoe is actually a parasitic plant that will latch onto trees and siphon their water and nutrients, as well as being very toxic to people. The name mistletoe actually comes from Mistil in old norse||

[lost briar]

||I have to imagine the use of the Norse word is to deliberately evoke the mythological sword, which of course gives parallels to the ultra sword

I don't know why there are people are claiming that the sword Magolor picks up to power up into the Ultra Sword IS Mistilteinn but oh well||

[vapid kestrel]

I think the last sentence in EX actually says like ‘Yet only its heart is still in an unaware state’

[magic gate]

also thanks for the pause description translations, I've been forgetting to read them as I go through the true arena lmao

[vapid kestrel]

Honestly I have no idea

[leaden terrace]

Since I'm STILL outside and can't load pics, I'm assuming this is metal general

[vapid kestrel]

Yea

[leaden terrace]

Cool

[unreal stag]

i think that's a simple case of people going ||name is sword + that's a sword = that's the sword!!!! i assume||

[lucid wagon]

Is it possible to get a 100% file of RTDLDX without NSO?

[vapid kestrel]

Ok no I’m going back to my original understanding

That the Jp line is saying he doesn’t understand the heart

[leaden terrace]

So wait what does that mean? metal general had a heart or?

[lost briar]

it means that it is just a heartless machine

[leaden terrace]

I figured, the Japanese seems to word it v weirdly

[leaden terrace]

i love this magolor face so much "i am about to go insane"

[ruby plaza]

Whoever made this will feel my wrath

[queen rune]

So, I've done some revaluating on my current thoughts about The Ancients and their relation to Hyness and his people. I think it's been long since assumed that Hyness' people (and by extension Magolor) are related to the magic tribe of the ancients. However, with Magalor hard confirming he is not from Halcandra, that throws how Hyness's people are related into question. Moreover, Forgotten Land seems to point more towards The Ancients being humans who moved to Kirby's universe.

So my current idea is that what if The Ancients were just humans who created advanced technology using Fecto Elfilis as a base, but then met the magical people who were' Hyness' race/culture in Kirby's universe, who helped them learn magic themselves.

[leaden terrace]

??????

what is this image

[ruby plaza]

A crime

[queen rune]

Then after the Magic tribe presumably helped The Ancients (aka the humans) with whatever Galactic crisis, The Ancients then banished the magical aliens to the far edges of the universe, and stripped any record of them helping them from history, so only The Ancients are credited with their scientific AND magical breakthroughs

[late root]

he's just hungry dude-

[leaden terrace]

"the squeaks are merely obeying their nature" theyre a gang full of petty thieves
"haltmann only does evil things because of the situation he finds himself in" that wouldve been true if he was the person he was years ago
"meta knight is a villain" Shut Up

[queen rune]

TLDR: The "science ancients" and magic tribe were entirely different species; The magic tribe helped the Ancients learn science when they came to Kirby's universe

[ruby plaza]

I love how Magolor is basically this

[leaden terrace]

me after i failed my attempt to conquer the entire universe (it was p funny tho)

[leaden terrace]

i feel like the ancients are more of an umbrella term

maybe i could be provne wrong but we dont know about them enough to truly know if theyre just one species or not

[gilded veldt]

if at least part of the ancients end up being human (I cant help but Forgotten Land at least heavily implied this), I wonder if they're gonna explain Adeline some day, or the frozen planet in 64 lol

[leaden terrace]

personalyl im half hoping adeleine doesnt get roped into all this

she just seems like an innocent girl who doesnt deserve to be related to this completely mind boggling lore lol

[queen rune]

I think the ones who created all of the technology and colonies such as Clockwork stars, presumably the Master Crown, Halcandra, and presumably Shiver Star, are human.

[gilded veldt]

Im expecting them to never brng up Adeleine just because I can't remember the time they did some EPIC lore drop on an old reoccurring character unless you count the void termina stuff

[leaden terrace]

maybe at worst just hint at her being one of them

but... dont let her know this lol

who knows whatd happen to her poor mind

[queen rune]

I can see Adeline being related in that she's human like the ancients, but she herself doesn't care about any of it and just wants to draw and create art with her friends

[leaden terrace]

yeah

[gilded veldt]

I mean maybe she already knows!

It does feel sorta sus that she's the only human we see right

[leaden terrace]

its possible but at the same time

[queen rune]

Like, yeah she's human. Same way Kirby is an incarnation of Void. But they don't really care as much unless it directly affects them

[leaden terrace]

why would we, humans, create shit like clockwork stars?

[queen rune]

Because we can. And because we can.... we have to

[leaden terrace]

if anything, the new world is so much more close to what we already make

[queen rune]

Humanity is gonna do what it do

[leaden terrace]

clockwork stars are something else entirely

its not only got clockwork stuff in it but complete magic bullshit

[gilded veldt]

I mean if humanity is at the point where its hopping to different dimensions and stuff, at that point I guess there's not really any limits anymore

[queen rune]

Exactly

[leaden terrace]

i mean we dont know that

we dont even know if this is just a planet or thats all of the new world were in

maybe its just as big as earth is and weve only explored a quarter of it

[thin willow]

They grant wishes so like
That sounds like a pretty good motivator

[leaden terrace]

yeah but how would we do such a feat

as creating a wish granting all powerful clockwork stars that can be summoned by magical stars

[thin willow]

Because humans are inherently powerful in the Kirby universe

[leaden terrace]

because adeleine is very strong

i agree

[thin willow]

Adeline can draw things and make things come to life

That's like, kinda insane

[leaden terrace]

paintra and paint roller can too

...and vividria

[thin willow]

Yes, but Adeline is only a kid

[queen rune]

if they were able to reverse engineer dimensional travel by studying (and in the first place BEATING ) a planet conquering alien, then I'm pretty sure they could find a way to create clockwork stars by learning magic

[thin willow]

Imagine what adults can do

[queen rune]

Human villain in Kirby WHEN?

[leaden terrace]

i wouldnt say humans themselves are necessarily strong

maybe their technology and ingenuity can push past their limits

[thin willow]

That's pretty strong

[leaden terrace]

but i wouldnt believe that humans can both wield technology and magic so masterfully that they made clockwork stars of all things

[thin willow]

Why is that so hard to believe?

In the context of Kirby

[leaden terrace]

i dont like the idea of humans just being teh strongest beings in da universe !!!!

[thin willow]

Even IRL humans made some pretty wacky contraptions

Mechanisms and stuff

[leaden terrace]

we dont even know jackshit bout them nor the fact that theyre even humans, just that they speak human languages which is still a huge deal but still

[thin willow]

That's a pretty obvious tell lol

[queen rune]

If I can believe in a universe were a penguin can learn to fly by holding his breathe, then personally I can by that humans created reality warping technology

[leaden terrace]

yeah but i dont wanna be so sure and go, OH so humans made everything ... it can be so cool but at the same time it can be so boring

[thin willow]

It's a compelling narrative

[leaden terrace]

idk maybe HAL can nail that somehow

[queen rune]

I can understand that mindset, but I don't think it'll be such an issue with how it seems HAL might handle it.

[leaden terrace]

yeah i have this much trust in HAL

[thin willow]

It's a surreal type of deal
Kind of like how Splatoon handles humans

[queen rune]

Me personally, seeing as with the direction the series is going, I think having an Ancient human as one of the antagonists (maybe the final one of this current era of Kirby like Void Termina was) would be a cool idea. We already explored Kirby and Dark Matter's origins with Void, I think this would be the next area they could go for.

In addition, we are already well used to having eldritch horrors of some kind as adversaries in Kirby; a human antagonist could be a nice shake up and add a "different" kind of horror as well

[leaden terrace]

its just that if we ever get another human character thats one of the more technologically advanced ones, maybe a human villain, i just hope they arent treated like the most powerful thing in the universe or go on about how they made many things, i dont feel that is the point of them being human

just knowing they exist is insane, and seeing another would simply shatter minds

[granite cedar]

i still think that ancients werent only one specific race but a bunch of different cultures

[leaden terrace]

yea same

[thin willow]

Kirby embodies childlike joy and whimsey, escapism to the max. It's only natural that the antithesis to that vibe would be humans. A harsh reminder of what life is beyond your "dreamland"

[granite cedar]

like ppl overlook that they were also into magic and people from new world 100% didnt know shit about magic lmao.

its wacky alien creatures that did, probably

[late root]

Your family, friends and you are dead in kirby canon lmao

[leaden terrace]

LOL

[granite cedar]

been the case since 2000

[late root]

shiver star moment

[leaden terrace]

cool i guess, ill just wait to see what hal has to say about it someday, IF they even consider having another human come by

[queen rune]

Like I said earlier, I now sort of believe that the FL people didn't know shit about magic, and it was Hyness' people who taught them

[queen rune]

It's exactly this reasoning on why I think a human villain would be so cool to have in Kirby. Kirby is used to fighting monsters, but probably not "this" kind of monster

[granite cedar]

i also think its unlikely that they will ever touch upon humans honestly because of adeleine's existence. they use her a lot more now, but if they were to introduce more of her kind, they would have to come up with lore for her and idk if HAL would do that lmao.

then again

forgotten land kinda hinted at her relation to new world people...

so maybe i'm wrong.

[leaden terrace]

if id imagine a kirby villain whos a 'human', itd be an overly curious scientist who seems like a normal person but it doesnt translate well to when you actually encounter them and theyre actually sooooo much larger than expected and their presence is extremely overwhelming

[thin willow]

Well, yeah
That was when the ancients were just starting out (in theory anyway). Elfilis busted their world wide open and that was the catalyst behind their huge advancements

[leaden terrace]

like... if you get upclose to their face, only their eye would fit in the screen, barely even

[late root]

yeah, becuase canonically, kirby is just 8 inches lol

[queen rune]

sometimes that's easy to forget

[granite cedar]

he is but it doesnt matter shit in kirby's universe

[queen rune]

But then again scale is all sorts of screwy anyway

[granite cedar]

because if the new world indeed was inhabited by humans, kirby would be way smaller in relation

[leaden terrace]

id love to imagine the humans, or at least the ones we might encounter, dont mean harm at first

but their power or temper is so insane you just wouldnt comprehend them

[granite cedar]

i think thing with ancients is that they are less actively malicious and moreso suffer from god complex

think they can do anything

but this is their hubris

[leaden terrace]

imagine youre dealing w bugs

that would be what theyd have

[queen rune]

The Jurassic Park conundrum

[thin willow]

It's a very human trait

[queen rune]

All that matter was "They could" but they never stopped to think if "they should"

[thin willow]

The ancients are obviously obsessed with progress and all that

[leaden terrace]

thats true actually

didnt consider that

and the fact that the entire worlds in a whole different language

[thin willow]

Didn't really think about the consequences of creating the master crown

Or the novas

[leaden terrace]

i feel the master crown brought itself into creation with the help of humans

willing or not

because its such a dangerous relic that anyone who made it mustve been insane

[queen rune]

What probably happened is they used what they studied from Void Termina in order to make the Master Crown (like what they did with Elfilis), but OOPS, turns out it had side affects of making it sentient.

[granite cedar]

and we literally saw how it ended up for the most of them in epilogue now

[late root]

the master crown is capable of teleportation right?

[granite cedar]

[queen rune]

Probably made it so they could use some of Void's power for themselves

[leaden terrace]

not rly?

iirc at least

[granite cedar]

honestly i had a feeling for a while that ||master crown might've been the catalyst to demise of civilization on halcandra|| so im glad i was proven to be right

[leaden terrace]

||magolor only teleports because he already had the power, master crown the tree never teleports||

[queen rune]

||It's able to make portals itself in it's boss fight in Epilouge||

[gilded veldt]

so wait, ||was it ever explained how the master crown seemingly warped back to Halcandra's destruction during that fight||

[thin willow]

Yeah
There may be a good chance that the ancients were wiped out by their own creations
So all this speculation about the ancients showing up again may be for naught

[granite cedar]

well

thing is

if ALL of them are gone. who left lor and master crown to be guarded by landia? some of them are alive

[gilded veldt]

I still need to beat extra and the true arena so I might be missing some stuff lol

[leaden terrace]

actually maybe it did in the slam

[granite cedar]

true arena is 100% worth it trust me

[thin willow]

Would explain why Adeline is
All alone

[gilded veldt]

oh Im sure it is, I love me some difficult video game stuff!

[queen rune]

I think the reason The Crown was able to become sentient and destructive is because they made it based off of Void, which can incarnate into Dark matter. Which would explain the crown's similarity and function to Dark Matter

[maiden crane]

||its probably an illusion? it immediately disappears after magolor beats it||

[gilded veldt]

Im just slow cuz 3 excellent remakes / remasters came out in one week + Pokemon still has a big grip on me lol

[leaden terrace]

very fair but that doesnt explain why void himself summons them lol

[gilded veldt]

oh that explains it lol

[thin willow]

A lot of the stuff they left behind were self-sufficient
Like metal general

[leaden terrace]

maybe it was made in close vicinity with him

[queen rune]

My guess is because it was made from it, hence it was essentially part of it too. Ergo, it can summon it

[royal oxide]

It does

[leaden terrace]

yeah i was gonna correct myself

[granite cedar]

that is true but it doesnt seem to have very advanced AI still

[thin willow]

Or the entirety of shiver star

[leaden terrace]

so forget that i guess

[queen rune]

And since Void is kind of omniscient, it probably became aware of "another part of itself" existing in the form of the Crown

[granite cedar]

yeah i think master crown just wanted to spook magolor there since he's so obsessed with halcandran culture

"lmao look what i can do, you have no chance against me"

[leaden terrace]

haltmann made more advanced AI than the ancients how crazy is that lo.

[granite cedar]

not that surprising considering haltmann is from more modern times

[leaden terrace]

true

[queen rune]

"Yeah you see this culture you became so obsessed with? Yeah guess who wrecked it in the first place?"

[leaden terrace]

but still funny

cus heres the thing

[granite cedar]

wait.

i just realized something very funny

[thin willow]

I think void just copied what it saw with the master crown
Void termina's body is etched by a lot of stuff that it saw on Dreamland

[granite cedar]

magolor now KNOWS FOR SURE what happened to halcandra and no one else does.

[leaden terrace]

...

oh

[granite cedar]

and will he ever tell anyone else?

probably not lmfao