[SPOILERS] RtDL Deluxe

[odd rover]

Not yet, still 100%ing the main mode

Then I’ll do The Arena and then Extra Mode/More Magoland

Then the True Arena

[coarse flower]

oh ok

[novel fog]

no

||should get them after beating True Arena first time||

[odd rover]

Cool

[lost briar]

6-5: ||same as the original game, there's a conveyor belt above a door that has halcandle dees falling from it, if you follow the conveyor you'll find a gap in the grate at the very end that you can enter||
7-2: ||a new one added, a crusher section where the ceiling is falling in pieces, if you wait 86 seconds at the end, you'll find a path open up||

[ocean mauve]

tysm

[fathom cradle]

Also I got the 7-2 hal room theme after doing the 6-5 one

Maybe they were worried about locking a jukebox theme to a brand new hal room in base game? Lol

[ocean mauve]

can i exit the stage after finding em

[rustic ether]

[lost briar]

not sure honestly

[ocean mauve]

i'll just finish the level for fun

pressure panic time

[rustic ether]

Magalor Epilogue was great

[ocean mauve]

it was fr

[lost briar]

it is a little weird that it's still placed before Dangerous Dinner

kinda a red herring lol

[rustic ether]

||The Master Crown|| is arguably one of the coolest and scariest looking creatures this franchise has produced XD

[lilac arch]

||🌲 ||

[ocean mauve]

||i remember hearing the "hey we haven't seen whispy yet and the mode is apple-related, what if it's him" but i didn't think it'd actually happen lmfao||

[lofty condor]

||I love how angelic the final bosses have been getting||

[rustic ether]

||It looks like a final fantasy boss||

||then again, what Kirby boss doesnt look like an FF boss? XD||

[odd rover]

Me too

||They’re simultaneously getting more and more eldritch AND ethereal I love it||

[rustic ether]

||And the Kirby Clash reveal is actually really insane lol||

||Kirby is having a multiverse moment XD||

[long turtle]

||what is actually happening during master crowns fight in the background?, the background looks so genuinely sick and the fact it all gets destroyed within the fight is so cool||

[ocean mauve]

i gotta ask one question

[junior fiber]

||i know whispy isnt actually the gem apple tree but it probably is some sort of weird AD equivalent||

[ocean mauve]

||what actually was like. magolor's Thing during the epilogue. like is he good now after killing the master crown? idk. i can see he turned into the clash merchant but||

[lilac arch]

||the way I see it is that he is in good terms with Kirby and co. now but is still a bit mischievous and self-centered||

[rustic ether]

||pretty sure the reveal was he's always BEEN the clash merchant||

[faint glen]

||i think its more "whispy wasnt used as a boss in the mode because theyre already doing a tree thing"||

[lost briar]

||so basically his whole goal was the master crown before, but now by destroying it he's "atoning for one's sins"||

[junior fiber]

||whispy getting left out ffs||

[odd rover]

||It’s like the opposite of the beginning of Wreck-it-Ralph “You are bad guy, but that does not mean you are bad guy.||

[lost briar]

||basically he's no longer searching for infinite power and now looking for friendship||

[junior fiber]

||" you're the good guy, but that doesnt mean you're the good guy" is what he tells himself every night||

[faint glen]

||i think theyre determined to stick to their SA guns of "you really don't know with magolor"||

||though it is at least implied magolor regrets taking the master crown and tries to atone for that at least||

[rustic ether]

is there any new content outside of Magalor Epiloque, or is everything else the same after story mode?

[faint glen]

||true arena||

[rustic ether]

||well theres always a true arena lol||

||but besides that?||

[faint glen]

||true arena is changed tho||

[rustic ether]

||OH they changed it?||

shit my bad

[faint glen]

||also technically extra mode is a little different but its not enough for me to care about||

[junior fiber]

||the true arena is fucking hard as balls||

[rustic ether]

||how did they change it without saying too much?||

[ocean mauve]

tf i still don't have track 166

after doing the two hal rooms

[faint glen]

||just like . More enemies i think||

||also pause descs ofc||

[ocean mauve]

||i forgot to read the pause descriptions omg||

[rustic ether]

||theres more bosses, im assuming they added the ME bosses maybe?||

||i dont think they made those for kirby in mind tho||

[novel fog]

||they're in pins if you need them (plus original untranslated JP ones)||

[fathom cradle]

||extra mode midboss tower secret path||

[ocean mauve]

ty

and which one is 189?

[rustic trellis]

||Magologue HAL room iirc||

||Well, HAL Stage, not HAL room||

HAL room spoilers ||Its in the bottom right corner of the hub iirc||

[ocean mauve]

ah ty

knew i missed that

[long turtle]

Just looked at the pins ||i never realized how close the bg of master crown is to egg engines||

[lofty condor]

||It’s likely showing off how Halcandra was destroyed in the first place||

[rustic ether]

||so has it been full on confirmed that the Master Crown is a source of Dark Matter?||

[faint glen]

||no||

[rustic ether]

||still heavy speculation then…||

[faint glen]

||its a forced theory to begin with imotbh||

[lofty condor]

||Yeah aside from having one eye there’s not much connection to the Master Crown confirmed in RtDX||

[rustic ether]

||the pause description for it kinda has more proof to it maybe…?||

[lofty condor]

||Main reason the theory was a thing was because the eye in Magolor’s second form was similar to Dark Matter’s but, it’s basically obsolete now||

[rustic ether]

||it says it grants people power, but corrupts their hearts with darkness||

||so i mean… that sounds pretty straight forward||

||i mean there’s gotta be someway to explain its origin||

[faint glen]

||it was created by the ancients||

[junior fiber]

||i mean i like to think it was infused with dark matter while it was being made||

[lost briar]

honestly I guess the only real connection is still just ||Void Termina being connected to both||

[novel fog]

||just because something has to do with darkness does not equal Dark Matter, might be dark substance at most||

[junior fiber]

||void termina summoning it could be either because its ancient relation or just dark matter||

[lost briar]

||oh yeah and there's some flavor text that suggests that talks about an ancient book that Magolor read to learn about the master crown and thinking it's full of fairy tales

which corresponds to flavor text in Star Allies about Void Termina being in old books that were thought to be fairy tales||

[rustic ether]

||I don’t think they would’ve mention that then if it wasn’t important||

[lofty condor]

||The Ancients when the artifact they purposefully infused with a parasitic alien creature becomes a parasitic alien creature.||

[junior fiber]

another L to add to the ancients list

[novel fog]

||it just amplifies the darkness in their heart, anyhow||

[novel fog]

||it can be important without being related to Dark Matter clan||

[lost briar]

so like at the very least
||some Void Termina and Master Crown connection was basically just all but confirmed for now, not that it really means much right now either lol||

[craggy sable]

Ok this isn't funny anymore, how the hell am I able to doodle the Epilogue Final Boss with almost no problem???

It's so surprisingly simple to do... Unlike some other final boss (Stupid blue rat)

[rustic ether]

||the tie-ins are there though, so it might mean something||

[tall marten]

i just beat The True Arena with no ability AMA

[novel fog]

||anyhow, we don't even know if Master Crown even originally had these dark/corrupted functions, or if it was somehow tainted by something (perhaps the hatred and obsession of other supreme rulers?)||

[rustic ether]

||i think there’s too many things that connect together now that can’t be ignored y’know?||

[junior fiber]

maybe some jerk wore it years ago and the effect never left

[tall marten]

||what if the master crown was used to contain something the same way the dream rod was iirc?||

was nightmare sealed within the dream rod?

[lost briar]

I think he just explodes

[novel fog]

doubt it

[junior fiber]

what was nightmares relation to the star rod i still dont fully get it

[lost briar]

he was sealed in the fountain of dreams if that's what you were thinking

[tall marten]

ah
well that works

[lost briar]

but he was released

and Kirby made him blow up

[tall marten]

the master crown being a vessel for some entity makes sense

[lost briar]

bye bye moon

[novel fog]

||it is implied the crown has the 'hatred' and 'obsession' of other 覇王 (supreme rulers) in it||

[junior fiber]

moon troll

[tall marten]

maybe it's like a karmic thing

[novel fog]

||whether it was made that way or was corrupted, we don't know||

[craggy sable]

The moon had it coming

It knew what it did

[tall marten]

||maybe it was passed down and used by many different world destroying entities until it was defeated and handed over to landia||

[junior fiber]

landia probably had a strong enough will to keep it at bay, or at least somewhat

just what i think

[tall marten]

||also does lor have legit sentience or AI||

[craggy sable]

Potato Potato

[junior fiber]

both

someone send the gif of magolor dancing with the lor soul shit

[craggy sable]

EX Mode Lore seems to make it clear that
||The Lor purposefully let itself get shot down once it realized what Magolor was trying to do prior to the events of the game||

[junior fiber]

perfect

[lost briar]

The Lor do be an ancient artifact moment

[rustic trellis]

||Magolor dying to Landia because he escaped the Lor Soul fight with 1 hp ||

[signal elm]

I’m on the true arena

It’s ok so far

Stone is helpful

I appreciate it

A lot

It’s saved me so many headaches

[lost briar]

Landia EX's flavor text states that not even they as the guardian are fully able to fully keep control over the crown

[signal elm]

Huh

I’m on landia right now

Werid

[lost briar]

there's also Parallel Landia in Clash which is Landia being corrupted by the Master Crown

[junior fiber]

Green eyes

[late root]

the bad ending

imagine magolor encountering your fight with parallel landia and immediately triggered his ptsd

[rustic trellis]

Tbh, SDX armor probably has more power than the master crown. Have you seen how busted that stuff is

[ocean mauve]

im very garbage at true arena so i had to use sand lmao

[faint glen]

U say this as he literally sells gem apples

[rustic trellis]

Speculation, True Arena and Magologue Spoilers ||I think that Magologue is the good ending where magolor is saved by kirby, but goes to hell Another Dimension for his sins crimes, and upon escaping is given a second chance in a new universe, while True Arena is a bad ending where Kirby fails to defeat Magolor Soul in time, allowing Magolor to be completely consumed by the Master Crown, dying in the middle of the fight and leaving Kirby nothing but an apple to help defeat the Master Crown once and for all. The only thing thats shaky is Magolor crying for help in Phase 2's music, because that would mean Magolor is still slightly there, but I think it makes more sense to believe that Magolor was completely consumed in the True Magolor Soul fight||

[faint glen]

||i think mischief room might be the best way to farm magic points
Super quick 1.6k ish||

[ocean mauve]

oh yeah that's what i did

||maxed out my stats before crowned doomer lol||

[faint glen]

||ah lol
I didnt at all||

[lost briar]

I played ||Extra Stage|| a lot to help me practice getting high combos

[faint glen]

||just doing it now to see all the funny magolor dialogue
Watch out, enemies! You're about to have a bad day. ||

[ocean mauve]

||has someone beaten master crown with 0 upgrades (aka just the moves you naturally unlock)||

[thin forge]

so... this is the story of how he became the dreaded

microtransagolor

[lost briar]

why did that send

[lost briar]

||yes, I think I've seen a video posted here||

|| https://youtu.be/r-CSl9NCzOE ||

[signal elm]

I was wondering that

[stuck sonnet]

||Man, this game mode was excellent, now I wanna see Galacta Knight Epilogue. Slowly getting to max power as him would be awesome.||

[ocean mauve]

i just want something like epilogue as a full game

[lost briar]

yeah I'd say the biggest shame is how short all the stages are

like even HiAD probably had more rooms to go through overall

[pure lagoon]

Rank the magolor outfits

For me it's
Shopkeeper > Epilogue > OG

Ik there are more but those are like the drastic ones

[ocean mauve]

also gotta say

||magolor surge is easily the most busted move in his kit||

i just spam that thing for every situation

[ocean mauve]

epilogue>og>shopkeeper for me

[pure lagoon]

The bombs are strong

[ocean mauve]

the ||up down bomb|| is pretty pog

||but honestly if i had to just use one move the whole time it would easily be surge||

[pure lagoon]

||For me the spikes were less useful than expected, i like that they stay but they're a tad bit too hard to pull off when you gotta be quick||

[ocean mauve]

real - ||they're kinda aight for phase transitions but yeah||

[tawdry mulch]

Hey guys you know that funny ||Master Crown arena with the world in cinders||

Boy isn't that familiar

[thin forge]

when the ||battle is decisive||

[tawdry mulch]

Only can imagine what ||Castle Towns ruins being in AD with similar destruction to Halcandra in the Crown arena implies||

[ocean mauve]

also gotta ask

||wtf is going on with mago soul in the true arena||

||where did his eyes go. why does he give an apple. Sand and Mecha aren't super abilitites! So much confusion||

[signal elm]

AND HE IS DOWN

Oh

No

Um brb

[lost briar]

I didn't notice this until looking closer at the pictures they used but ||the portal at the end of ME actually has a view of the Castle Village towers||

[late root]

||mago is dead||
||it's his last gift to you before dying||
||new abilities moment||

[ocean mauve]

||so is him dying canon or not canon?||

[novel fog]

||guessing it's to show he can use normal abilities too||

[novel fog]

||doesn't seem like he truly 'dies' even during fight||

||hence the pause screen for phase 2 and his voice in the song||

[late root]

||like the master crown just fully takes control of his body now... even more so than his other fights||

[signal elm]

AND IT IS DONE

[late root]

||also, alternate universe moment||

[cosmic scroll]

||I think it is a bad end what-if scenario where the Master Crown just takes full control, thus more powerful and the pause screen threatens you after he let his pride go to ask for help.||

[novel fog]

||either way, it is implied that the Extra Mode version of Soul is the one that takes place in main world, but it does not make much of a difference either way||

[signal elm]

I’ve 100% this game

Now I can rest

[ocean mauve]

same

i can also remove my wordblockers for the epilogue lol

[novel fog]

was rereading some of the old Nintendo Switch News Articles related to Magolor, ||forgot how they specifically brought attention to how he can use Ultra Sword in Star Allies||

[signal elm]

The gold|| Kirby mask|| is amazing

[tawdry mulch]

They left no stone unturned it seems

[novel fog]

||yeah, finally solved mystery brought up behind why he can use it lol||

[tawdry mulch]

I remembered that earlier today and was like ||okay wow they're pulling from every outside source for this I DEEPLY respect putting the interview stuff in a game. Gives me a lot of faith in their vision for this story||

[novel fog]

also find it funny how in the Star Allies and Fighters 2 news posts they say how his moves and play styles are typical for him lol

[tawdry mulch]

This is coming from the guy who ||tried to ignore clash's canonicty forever||

I respect the vision I shall sit here and see it through

They've blown my expectations out of the water completely lmfao

This series really is something else lmao

[novel fog]

same, knew this would be like the 'culmination of Magolor' but damn

[signal elm]

It feels so good I’ll never need to touch extra mode again

[magic gate]

||Did they change the galacta knight fight any? I don't remember galacta knights lazer beam doing an explosion in RTDL, only in clash||

[tawdry mulch]

I really couldn't have expected so much stuff they've said about him to get addressed. I really really hope they keep this energy for other characters

[pliant socket]

||It was like that in the og||

[tawdry mulch]

||I think they gave him more energy swords maybe I'm not sure about that ||

I'm not going to count

[novel fog]

||yeah they changed the energy sword attack and revolution beam iirc||

[tawdry mulch]

||I'm going to assume it's 30 and move on||

[novel fog]

||yeah it's 30||

[tawdry mulch]

Oh shit really

Wow

That's cute

[novel fog]

||how long will it be until they get to 90 lmao||

[magic gate]

good to know.

definitely a dead run though lmao. 2 more fights in the true arena and I can only take one more hit before I die.

used up all the tomates because ||I thought they would leave galacta knight the same as before||

[ocean mauve]

if you wanna cheese go Sand!
otherwise I wish you the best of luck :pray;

[tawdry mulch]

But yeah ngl this is my favorite Kirby game. Of course I think FL and PR have better gameplay and levels and junk by a bit (especially FL) my love for this extends beyond gameplay. The level of care given to series acknowledgement with masks and past lore that wasn't in games, the amazing new multiplayer options, new mode and bosses, and expressive animations make this game for me

It's real special

[vapid kestrel]

Galacta Knight's laser is called Revolution Sword not Revolution Beam!!!!!!!!!

[magic gate]

I really wish that hammer wasn't so heavily nerfed compared to other games

[vapid kestrel]

RIP 2D Hammer, 2008-2016

[magic gate]

exactly. also rip died to ||Whispy Soul's literal first attack||

[tawdry mulch]

Big ass ||root||

[ocean mauve]

why are they so insistent on the smash bros hammer flip it's AAAAASSSSSSSSS

[tawdry mulch]

Hal simply loves smash

[signal elm]

I like smash

[vapid kestrel]

I will miss Hammer being meme tier powerful

[signal elm]

It’s fun to use

[pliant socket]

Honestly they probably just. Forgot to change it which is like the best case scenario i can think of

Or they lost the original mint code for it

[fathom cradle]

This is the deadass the worst part about star allies

[tawdry mulch]

Kirby's Smash ability nair does not deserve to be confined to an ability that is in two games

[fathom cradle]

Not the level design or whatever but the hammer change

[vapid kestrel]

Twinkle is a fun move

Kirby spins and for some reason just

[pliant socket]

Star Allies and its lasting effects on the Kirby franchise

[vapid kestrel]

An aura of kill around him

[tawdry mulch]

I love the kill aura

His f smash in the Kirby series is fucking hysterical

700 miles across the screen put that shit in the game Sakurai

[vapid kestrel]

Why can't his fsmash in actual smash games launch him that far

[tawdry mulch]

Bet you wont

[fathom cradle]

Foot

[tawdry mulch]

Can't stop listening to ||Mistilteinn I think this song itself is a parasite||

that opening I can't count how many times I restart just to hear that

Seriously love everything about that fight

||Maybe funny tree man could have moved around a bit more but GRAAHH I DON'T CARE I'M WATCHING BUILDINGS CRUMBLE IN THE BACKGROUND!!! ||

[bold epoch]

||i found that the fight was kinda....meh||
||I liked it, that's to be sure, and the use of moves from the star allies void termina fight mixed into the cool Triple Deluxe 3D effect was awesome!||
||but i feel like there was more that could be done. I still loved it, and the design was fantastic!||

[coarse flower]

great fight
||but why were rampage doomers harder than either of the crown's boss forms||

[lost briar]

||at least its a new fight
i know a lot of people complained that the HiaD final boss was something that felt like it should have been in the base game||

[bold epoch]

||honestly that was my biggest problem with it, it was easier than some of the other bosses.||

[tawdry mulch]

I think the biggest issue with it is that ||it's mostly the funny tree sending shit at you while glaring you down. But overall I liked the challenge and the setting||

[coarse flower]

IMO ||Crowned Doomer -> Tree Master Crown|| was the second hardest boss of the mode
but ||why were Rampage Doomers THAT HARD||

[coarse flower]

true

[tawdry mulch]

||Honestly do think it's harder than funny doomers but I have only fought these shitters over bad input delay LMAO||

[novel fog]

ah fuck lol
I always struggle with his attack/move names

[bold epoch]

||honestly it was probablyu just all the bird goo they kept spewing. over and over. AND THERE WERE 4 OF THEM!||

[tawdry mulch]

Oh and it was multiplayer

Parsec moment

[bold epoch]

i was always curious if parsec multiplayer was doable on emulator.

[tawdry mulch]

Hopefully I'll get my actual copy tomorrow lmao

Yeah if the game emulated is local multiplayer

[bold epoch]

(bruh, that's illegal)

[coarse flower]

Seriously ||Rampage Doomers are harder than everything except Galacta Knight and Magolor Soul EX||

[tawdry mulch]

It's legal cause I'm not the one emulating and my friend does own the game

[bold epoch]

oh, then that's fine

sorry i thought you emulated it, and streamed over parsec

without buying the copy

[tawdry mulch]

My laptop is TRASH

[bold epoch]

but if they own a copy, that's fine

[tawdry mulch]

Could hardly handle just the fucking parsec and discord combo 😭

[bold epoch]

yea honestly, i found that emulating it on pc (at least with my specs), the only big glaring problem were the cutscene audio not respecting the emulator's set volume. So they all just played at max

[tawdry mulch]

The water particles were being funny for us

[bold epoch]

hmm interesting. I hadn't found that problem. Were you using yuzu or ryujinx?

[tawdry mulch]

And for some reason the stars around Nutty Noons boss door were like. Stuck

Yuzu

[bold epoch]

ah, i was using ryujinx.

so i couldn't confirm if those were an emulator, system-specific, or yuzu thing

[tawdry mulch]

For the most part everything else was good

[bold epoch]

yea, i still loved the game

[tawdry mulch]

Except when it crashed at the end of Ex mode Magolor Soul that was messed up

[bold epoch]

(especially when I could use the turbo mode on my controller with cheat engine to speed up the gamespeed and cheese the egg catching minigame to get like 70+ plays in 30 minutes.)

[tawdry mulch]

And like 3 times in Dangerous Dinner 3 for some reason

Didn't happen anywhere else

[bold epoch]

oh jeez. Maybe ryujinx might be better? I didn't crash at all, though I found a few stutters and freezes during arena modes on bosses i hadn't fought yet. But after the game buffered, it was fine

[worldly burrow]

none they're all easy as hell

[tawdry mulch]

It also crashed in SA during Void Terminas beam struggle and we will never go back

[bold epoch]

out of annoyance, probably either the|| big boi doomer, or rampaging doomers.||

[worldly burrow]

||the doomer zoomers are|| pretty annoying tho

||cuz they zoom and its annoying||

[tawdry mulch]

I really like that fight

[supple scaffold]

||Aaaand Ultra Magolor Soul just turned me to mulch||

[bold epoch]

hmmm, i think i used ryujinx for that too (though i already 100%'d it on switch. It was mostly for 60fps mod)

[tawdry mulch]

Mmmm getting overwhelmed by a bunch of assholes putting shit on the screen

[bold epoch]

yea it does that

[supple scaffold]

||God damn they went nuts with him||

||Didn't even get past phase 2's initial barrage||

||No ability Master Crown isn't bad but Ultra Magolor takes so many hits to DIE||

[bold epoch]

||that's the one with the dark teal color pallete, right?||

[tawdry mulch]

||I was playing with friends and only player 1 made it to phase 2 with sand against true arena soul LMAO||

[bold epoch]

||it's a pretty good ability :3, you can hide and not take any damage at all||

[supple scaffold]

||Without a dash attack to iframe I dunno how to dodge triple flare beam lol||

[tawdry mulch]

What a bonkers fight. But Kumazaki my brother. ||a little on the nose to make the sky the same color as the revenge of Dreamland fight 🤨 . Plagiarism???? ||

[bold epoch]

||i personally prefer mecha for the versatility of being mobile, and able to put good damage in literally ever direction.||

[tawdry mulch]

He's already plagarising the Bible so I guess why stop there

[supple scaffold]

||Yeah trying to do the last two fights of True Arena without a copy ability tho||

[worldly burrow]

yuzu works just fine for me

[bold epoch]

||triple flare beam?||

[supple scaffold]

||It's tradition||

[tawdry mulch]

It only added to the hilarity tbh

[supple scaffold]

||When he splits into the three huge Beam orbs and riccochets around||

[tawdry mulch]

Terminas sore losing ass crashing the emulator

Ol easy ass fight

[bold epoch]

||oh yea, that's rather annoying. I normally just stay in the middle. Once they start going into the background, start going into the space they leave behind||

[worldly burrow]

magolor getting owned so hard so he sets my steam deck on fire

[coarse flower]

I thought it was a cool reference that's all

[tawdry mulch]

I think it was probably a coincidence given how small that project is and development time and whatnot. But who knows maybe some dev interview will prove me wrong

I'd be pretty surprised if they managed to be that involved with the community. Especially since RoD is an English thing too

[vapid kestrel]

||Cool I can make Magolor instant full charge Revolution Flame||

[urban crane]

Hey question

Can you play through the campaign as not kirby

[vapid kestrel]

Unfortunately P1 is locked to Kirby

[urban crane]

Like without multiple players

Sad

[leaden terrace]

you can at least use piggybacks as alternative

[vapid kestrel]

||I can also make full charge deadly needles instant and stay on stage forever||

||Can also make magolor run or fly at the speed of light lol

[subtle kestrel]

Time for Mecha only Extra Mode

[faint glen]

Im glad everyone feels my hammer pain

Even if hammer did like . 50% of all bosses' health itd be less broken than the invincible abilities anyways

[subtle kestrel]

Bro hammer is obsolete now thanks to sand and mecha

[faint glen]

🥹 yea

[subtle kestrel]

I’ve succumbed to mecha meta

Hell sand completely killed leaf’s viability

[faint glen]

i still beat true arena with stone lmao i trusted it more than the sand attack

but apparently its more busted

[subtle kestrel]

Literally THE best camping ability for TA

Haven’t played TA yet but i just know it is

[unique gyro]

Does its leaf throw not satisfy for DPS?

Though all in all, I do find Sand more fun myself

it's Hi-Jump, Whip and Hammer all in one

[subtle kestrel]

Sand storm

FUCKING SAND STORM

[unique gyro]

I like Sand Castle myself

[glossy mortar]

hello spoilers chat what are we discussing this hour

[subtle kestrel]

Absolutely shreds Grand Doomer (doomers in general) as well as Mag 1st phase

[glossy mortar]

sand? ooh dont get me started on the cheese tactics

[unique gyro]

is your hand burning red?

[subtle kestrel]

From what?

[unique gyro]

Man, don't tell me I'm the only Kirby fan who immediately understood what Blazing Palm was referencing

[glossy mortar]

up attack spam. camouflage camping

[subtle kestrel]

Man i just spam Sizz-Zap Burst and Quick-FCB

[glossy mortar]

funny whispy woods thing you can do. fire. spam dash attack on his fucking forehead

[subtle kestrel]

Apparently also if you up-b out of Sand Geyser it’s like a speedy sand storm

[glossy mortar]

that one spot directly above him is entirely safe and you can just find any airborne attack and spam him to oblivion it trivializes any form of thinking

[subtle kestrel]

Not even listed in the moveset

[glossy mortar]

revolution beam

(evil laughter) REVOLUTION BEAM

[subtle kestrel]

Wait, what is beam?

[unique gyro]

... Waddle Doo ability...?

[glossy mortar]

i cannot comprehend this question

[unique gyro]

Beam's... been around since KA

[subtle kestrel]

Ohhhhhh, that weird shitty version of Mecha?

[unique gyro]

PFFFFFFFFF

[glossy mortar]

lmao

yeah that one

ik its really obscure

[unique gyro]

Don't put disrespect on Beam, Mecha doesn't have a grab move

[glossy mortar]

Doesn't need one

[subtle kestrel]

I haven’t used beam since fucking RTDL classic

[unique gyro]

also Mecha don't have a Super Ability counterpart (or a Kirby Clash role)

[glossy mortar]

Tactic:

• Gain reasonable distance from enemy
• I'ma firin my lazar
• Repeat

[unique gyro]

Beam Machine Gun is still one of my favourite moves in the franchise

also if you wanna talk about outclassing Beam, Spark im RtDL already did that

[subtle kestrel]

Or:

-SIZZ ZAP BURST

-SIZZ ZAP BURST

-ANOTHER FUCKING SIZZ ZAP BURST

[glossy mortar]

remind me which one that is

[subtle kestrel]

Down+Up B

[glossy mortar]

oh

i never use that

i will incorporate it into my next Mecha Rampage

[subtle kestrel]

I abuse it lmao

[unique gyro]

According to speedrun tactics, you can store a full-charge beam, then hold B after a Sizz-Zap Burst to charge a second one

that way, you can fire two fully charged beams consecutively

[subtle kestrel]

Like a second of invuln with a free attack that hits as hard as a fully charged beam shot

[subtle kestrel]

WHAT

I MUST TRY THIS NOW

[unique gyro]

One sec, I'll grab the tweet

[subtle kestrel]

I JUST TESTED IT

[unique gyro]

https://twitter.com/Falco_Lau_EX/status/1630263814301298689

Falco Lau EX (@Falco_Lau_EX)

アーマー ザンキブル
多分これが一番早いと思います
#星のカービィWiiデラックス #星之卡比 #星之卡比Wii豪华版 #NintendoSwitch

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 27, 2023, 5:49 PM

[subtle kestrel]

WE ARE NOW MIN MIN SMASH BROS

[unique gyro]

Does it look exactly like the above tweet?

If so, good stuff

[subtle kestrel]

It does

[unique gyro]

Now your path to optimum begins

[subtle kestrel]

The mecha only run just became spicier

Actually fuck it i might toss sand in there for fun

[unique gyro]

real quick

can I just say HOW GLAD I AM about the fact that Another Dimension's song title is definitively called "Another Dimension" even in English?

WE CAN ALL STOP CALLING IT LOOMING DARKNESS NOW

[leaden terrace]

i never saw anyone talk about that until now

sooo true

looming darkness is such a boring name

im glad we can literally just call it another dimension

[unique gyro]

Perhaps because I'm one of the few who had gripes with it

and I rarely talk here unless a new Kirby release is out that I play

[leaden terrace]

i have a gripe w it myself

particularly cus i kept getting the chase one

and not the "looming darkness" one

and i get annoyed

[unique gyro]

I mostly found annoyance with the name because eventually, Star Allies' soundtrack called it by Another Dimension in JP

[unique gyro]

Ah, the one now named "Fly, Kirby!"?

[leaden terrace]

yeah

[unique gyro]

It's sort-of a consequence of the Kirby Wii Music Selection not having all of the songs back then

now, though, they have song titles in the Jukebox so even if the games never receive a soundtrack, we no longer need to worry

I'm so glad that was amongst the new features that KFL brought to the table

OH SHIT

okay hold on

I just found a video showing ||a new HAL Room added to 7-2||

[leaden terrace]

old kirby songs having names... nsiff sniff

well no the old ones do have names but theres some that dont and really deserve

[unique gyro]

||https://youtu.be/MKarHypUlTE KAWASAKI, HERE I COME||

apparently you have to wait ||86 real-time seconds in the room where the ceiling is trying to crush you, after which the ceiling will open up again and you can Invincible Candy your way through a bunch of enemies||

[glossy jay]

Ok lore wise, when does Magolor epilogue take place

Because the ending shows him in the ||team kirby clash|| world

[leaden terrace]

definitely after rtdl and magolor presumably returns before star allies as ||he has the ultra sword and the gem apples||

[glossy jay]

So he gets banished there, returns somehow to build the amusement park in the anniversary edition game, and be in Star Allies?

[unique gyro]

Literally right after his defeat in the main game

[leaden terrace]

i mean we dont exactly know when magoland EXACTLY takes place iirc

since it tiself is basically a detached time place

[glossy jay]

I mean the ending

[leaden terrace]

it was discussed before but i rly forgot

[unique gyro]

Yeah, relative to the ending it's definitely as 0th said IMO

[glossy jay]

It shows him in Team Kirby clash world, but he makes further appearance in the maingames

[leaden terrace]

it could be around SA-FL

magoland i mean

[unique gyro]

Magoland is itself said to be a story in a different place and time to the main game

[granite cedar]

I think for simplification's sake it's just easier to take it as the most current future

Aka post FL

[leaden terrace]

yeah

[long turtle]

I def think he came back, made the theme parks for kirby and dedede (drum dash and 20th anniversary new challenge stages) appeared in star allies then made magoland

[glossy jay]

I wonder how he got back from the Clash universe

[granite cedar]

Lor

Probably

[unique gyro]

One thing is for certain: ||He spent time at Dream Kingdom before returning to Dream Land and Planet Pop Star||

[unique gyro]

dude's clearly well travelled

[glossy jay]

Yeah ok that makes sense now

[long turtle]

I wonder if he made that vacation home in popstar

[unique gyro]

The Lor might not be Magolor's, though

[leaden terrace]

im half convinced susie helped him

[unique gyro]

so I reckon Magolor just got there under his own power

Clearly he has the ability - he had to grab the Lor Starcutter from Halcandra, but owing to the fact that he is not native to it, he either is a traveller from a distant galaxy, or another dimension/world entirely

[leaden terrace]

cus susie (presumably the one from original universe) came to clash universe too

[granite cedar]

I don't think Susie helped him because Susie doesn't help anyone unless it benefits her

[leaden terrace]

she ate magolor's gem apples as sherbets, which was then brought into star allies

[leaden terrace]

unless were talking business

that may be why magolor set up his theme park LOL

"you help me kickstart my theme park project, i give you..."
"90%"
"..."

[granite cedar]

Well theme park is completely free so there is no business strictly speaking

Unless it's just an exclusive wip thing for the gang and no one else

[leaden terrace]

LMFAO

they have to pay a shit ton of money just to get in

[granite cedar]

Yeah, 60 dollars

[leaden terrace]

so true

[granite cedar]

[unique gyro]

TRADE OFFER

[leaden terrace]

and theyll have to pay more just for the attractions too

[unique gyro]

Magolor receives: Gem Apples
You receive: ???

[leaden terrace]

omg i can actually imagine magoland being funded by haltmann works co. somehow that would be so funny

[unique gyro]

... yo, real talk

[leaden terrace]

i dont think theres any way it would be true but itd be so hilarious

[unique gyro]

what made Manager Magolor purge Scope Shot

Asking the REAL questions here

[celest grove]

While Vanpool is in charge, it's still HAL being the director, there's still a core team at HAL that was managing the game, so ||Magolor being only usable in Epilogue is above all, HAL's fault lol||

[long turtle]

Waddle tank bit someones frontal lobe

[celest grove]

Think more like Vanpool doing the grunt work for HAL

[leaden terrace]

The bite of 11 😱

[celest grove]

which is a very common thing in the business

[unique gyro]

I mean, it sticks to their traditions, really. Metaknightmare style characters cannot take on anything outside of their own modes

[celest grove]

and it is probably the only reason why this remake was developed alongside Forgotten Land which probably took a major part of HAL

[unique gyro]

and that has been the case since the original Metaknightmare

[celest grove]

I just think Vanpool is very good at their job

no complaints

they did what they were asked to do

and it's great

[unique gyro]

Vanpool did fantastic with this remake

I can't believe there is actually a third HAL Room in the main game

I should have seen it coming, though, with the way you access it bearing resemblance to other HAL Rooms in later titles

[celest grove]

also

it's the first time in a long time that a composer external from HAL worked on a mainline game

fun fact the Jukebox code accounts for 8 composers but only 5 were used

I believe I already said that even lol

[granite cedar]

I dont rly think this mode works as an equivalent to meta knightmare though lol

[novel fog]

also builds the theme park in Drum Dash

[granite cedar]

I think they haven't added magolor anywhere purely because of the upgrading mechanic

[celest grove]

It's more like a mix of Meta Knightmare/Dedede thing + HiAD in one

sort of

just greatly expanded on the collecting aspect that it becomes XP points pretty much

[novel fog]

I think they could have made it work, but that is probably part of it

[celest grove]

and the aspect of using a different character with his own moves

but for once none of this reuses much of anything compared to the rest of the game

[novel fog]

well, maybe Guest Star a little too

[celest grove]

and HAL probably felt that applying the Extra mode equivalent to Magolor wasn't fitting

because of how Extra mode already exists

[novel fog]

since more permanent upgrades

[lost briar]

i'm a little disappointed he isn't a bonus character but i lost hope for that when i saw him appear in the subgames lol

[celest grove]

not quite because the X button is pretty much sort of an equivalent to special powers that MK had while accumulating pts

I didn't even think of that until just now

[lost briar]

so was the y button

[magic gate]

I'm about to fight magolor soul in the true arena at half health with no more remaining tomatoes. Is hammer still good against him or do I keep being sword. I know hammer got nerfed to hell and back but is hammer still good against magolor soul true arena

[lost briar]

they were Meta Heal and Quick

[celest grove]

Sorry I play in Controls Type B

[novel fog]

yeah, I just mean in the upgrades being more permanent

[celest grove]

because Type A is an abomination

[novel fog]

it definitely takes inspiration from Meta Knightmare Ultra/Returns too though

[lost briar]

if he was a playable character elsewhere i'd just see him upgraded up to the 4th fruit fragment level since thats the closest equivalent to him being balanced

[novel fog]

with the Magic Points (similar to Meta Points)

[lost briar]

but even then its like
the issues with flight and health not being consistent with kirby

[burnt slate]

it's ok, but not having old hammer flips hurts it alot especially in a game where bosses have i-frames when taking damage

[lost briar]

i hear Sand's Golem Smasher is just Hammer Flip but better now

since it has absurd range and stuff

also charge time

[magic gate]

yea but i only have the option of keep sword, or switch to hammer in the lobby

i used sword because of a dare and its the only ability to actually get me past boss 3 in the true arena

I didn't think I'd be able to get this far because of how much I don't like playing sword

[leaden terrace]

...oh so thats what they changed?

[burnt slate]

hammer twirl is still pretty good as both an evasive and damaging move

if you're talking about the mercy frames bosses have, it's been in the og rtdl game and up until robobot where they removed it

[lost briar]

removing it would probably require a lot of rebalancing

more health for bosses

[unique gyro]

It's kinda half and half between the format of a Metaknightmare extra mode, and Heroes in Another Dimension

[leaden terrace]

meant hammer

i was seeing talks about hammer

but didnt rly read them lol

[burnt slate]

hammer wasn't going to benefit from it as much anyways since you cant jump cancel giant swings when landing

[unique gyro]

Oh, cause they changed it to the Robobot/Smash style Hammer Flip?

[burnt slate]

ya

[leaden terrace]

damn

[magic gate]

I'll just keep going sword. Been my greatest weapon in this arena.

[unique gyro]

I wonder about the raw damage values, on that note

[unique gyro]

i-frame advantage
That is the Kumazaki era difference

So many moves in this series have them thanks to RtDL

[magic gate]

||I just got an apple from the boss||

||Oh boy. here we go. Phase 2 time.||

[unique gyro]

Damn, lol

I play Type A cause it's easier for me to get short-hop attacks that way

[celest grove]

I want to use my thumb for the two most important buttons in the game

[magic gate]

... DANGIT

||MONSTER FLAME AAAAAAAAA||

[celest grove]

That's how I always played games like Mario when back then, Y and B were actually used

[leaden terrace]

damn did you lose ???

[celest grove]

I can still play Type A fine

[magic gate]

yes

[celest grove]

Especially when I'm forced to

(hi Kirby Clash)

but otherwise any time I play Kirby I make sure to switch to Type B

[magic gate]

||Stupendous Sandstorm and Marvelous Mech are what I'm going to call those hypothetical super abilities magolor used||

[unique gyro]

Ah, that makes sense. For me, it's easier to pull off certain manoeuvres with Type A, cause I'm often doing short hops into an attack of some sort

particularly when I'm using Hammer or Sword

[celest grove]

Now for me I have good wrists

[burnt slate]

honestly wish that ||TA mag soul's monster flame was faster. Could just be the romhack brain talking, but it's way too slow to be much of a threat||

[celest grove]

so I can still do short hops

[burnt slate]

esp after the shock value of seeing the move

[celest grove]

it is perhaps asking of my thumb a bit more, but usually I don't do short hops into attack in Kirby tbh

[unique gyro]

It's a matter of the motion for me, as my brain finds it easier to roll my thumb over from A to B, rather than use the middle of my thumb to hit B and then the tip to hit Y

[leaden terrace]

omg if they actually did the whole firstl etter thing with super abilities that wouldve been so cool :(

[celest grove]

it all depends on your hands imo

For me the 3DS I can't stand holding it anymore

[unique gyro]

In Mario, for me it's a different story since generally you hold dash, so for me it has typically been a Y dash, B jump

[celest grove]

I literally bought a 2DS just to make my hands comfortable

like a few months ago

[unique gyro]

Ergonomics are definitely a consideration, yeah

[celest grove]

I had bought a shell for the N3DS

which still worked out mostly fine

but it's still not quite what I wanted

[unique gyro]

And to be fair, Kirby Super Star on NSO is also that control type without any option to change

I guess for me, the summary is that if the game requires more tap inputs than hold, I favour rolling my thumb rather than using two parts of it to make those actions happen

and the opposite is true if it requires a hold more than a tap

[lost briar]

the virgin control scheme using B and Y vs the chad control scheme using A and X

[plain hound]

I just use A and B lol

[celest grove]

I use A and X on NES, SNES, GB/A NSO lol

mostly because I don't have much of a choice

but it's fine

[lofty viper]

lets go baybee

i wish i recorded the unique 1st place animation, it's cool

[leaden terrace]

WOOOO

[lofty viper]

oh you can use souvenir items in the arenas? does it get recorded with your time?

[queen rune]

Could a human main villain work in Kirby?

[lost briar]

yes

a present just appears as an icon

[lofty viper]

i see ty

[leaden terrace]

i rly like the idea but cant imagine it myself

whatever HAL does with their villains that make them so good, unique and nuanced, id rather leave the job to them

if they ever make a human villain, itd be so cool

[queen rune]

I can imagine a sort of "Ends justifies the means" villain (probably an ancient) that sees only the dark stuff in Kirby's universe and wants to enforce complete order onto it as a result.

They could also not see Kirby as himself and only as ||an incarnation of Void||

[leaden terrace]

so a kirby fan 😭

[celest grove]

Considering how they can still make up new shit out of nowhere

[leaden terrace]

even i get bamboozled at the shit they do

when i thought i knew what was going on, they fucking slapped me so hard i start spinning off screen

[celest grove]

I mean ||Master Crown is already pretty high at the top in terms of disturbing designs||

[queen rune]

You know what? Yeah exactly! They could be kind of like an affectionate callout to them. Because I think alot of us have those moments too

[celest grove]

I can see children getting scared lol

[lost briar]

||tbh i kinda wish it wasn't called master crown as a boss if only because its so confusing to refer to it when its controlling an entire tree or if its just the artifact||

[leaden terrace]

i mean i did predict a few things so technically i can get whats going on (therefore i am a LEAKER and i speak of the FUTURE) but i still get lost sometimes

||mistilteinn's a good nickname, glad they suggested that in the song name tbh||

[celest grove]

||tbh the crown seems to kinda have a mind of its own||

[lost briar]

||too bad people are already confusing that name for the sword magolor picks up||

[leaden terrace]

WHAT

OH right its a weapon

but wait how

[queen rune]

||Well the Tree didn't really exist before the Master Crown took control of the apple. It was just using it as a vessel more or less to attack||

[leaden terrace]

i mea ntechnically

||it was the gem apple||

[lost briar]

||because Mistilteinn has that funny double meaning of being Mistletoe in Norse as well as there being a sword named that in Norse mythology||

[leaden terrace]

||it supposedly spawned/grew out from the energy of the gem apple||

[lost briar]

||the funny ambiguity out of context||

[leaden terrace]

so true

[celest grove]

I mean, they probably did it on purpose lol

[leaden terrace]

omg if we just call ||tree crown mistletoe|| that would be amazing

[lost briar]

||mistletoe IS a tree crown||

[leaden terrace]

||like fuck mistleteinn, fuck master crown, mistletoe baby||

that is literally waht it is yes

[lost briar]

||kumazaki do just be making crazy ass names that you have to google search to figure out what they mean||

[coarse flower]

how bout we dont

[celest grove]

||Malus Pumila||

[coarse flower]

because then it'd be christian kirbo 3

oh wait christian kirbo 4

[coarse flower]

true

[leaden terrace]

Me and my partner kissing under the mistletoe 😳

[coarse flower]

👎

[lost briar]

||La follia d'amore, Roche Limit, Malus Pumila, Mistilteinn||

[leaden terrace]

||the names are like gradually becoming longer and longer||

are we seriously gonna get the most touhou name soon

[coarse flower]

ehh ||roche limit is cut off||

[leaden terrace]

what

?

[coarse flower]

the actual title is

"TWO PLANETS APPROACH THE roche limit"

[lost briar]

all the titles i posted were abbreviated except for la follia d'amore

[coarse flower]

ok

[queen rune]

What could they do with a time travel Kirby game?

[coarse flower]

what if we got fan translated ost names

[lost briar]

time travel

[leaden terrace]

i mean

thats still the full name

that is the full context

[coarse flower]

no more official names

[leaden terrace]

wow i guess its even longer in japanese

[coarse flower]

||Crown's theme is now called A-P-P-L-E||

[leaden terrace]

but that is what you expect form the language i guess

||a-p-p-l-e as a sound name sounds incredibly silly im glad they didnt go for that lol||

[urban bluff]

you know, upon further observation, I can kinda tell ||that the tree actually has golden strips pre-crown||

||bigger strips are the tree's, smaller strips wrapping around the bigger ones are crown's||

[novel fog]

||though note it is used as the name for more than one weapon in Norse mythology lol, it was also a mistletoe that was used as a weapon and became an arrow or spear, not just a name of a sword||

[leaden terrace]

||i wonder if its because the red fruit had golden strips pre-crown too 🤔 ||

[coarse flower]

||it was referencing how "world to win" was originally named "F-L-O-W-E-R-E-D" and how Vagrant Keepsake of Oblivion (yes ik that's the soul os version, doesn't matter, they're literally the same song) was originally named "P-R-O-G-R-A-M". Void Termina's theme, or at least one of them, would be named "F-R-I-E-N-D-S" on this logic, and Two Planets would be named "N-E-W W-O-R-L-D"||

[novel fog]

JP community has been calling the ||Master Crown (Tree-like form) 'Mistleteinn', in reference to song name||

[leaden terrace]

sweet

it fits it honestly

i like it

very menacing and foreign

[urban bluff]

||me and the boys calling magolor soul mistletoed egg ||

[novel fog]

||World to Win and Vagrant Keepsake of Oblivion was never named those||

[leaden terrace]

^

[coarse flower]

ok what were the official names

[urban bluff]

I could be gaslighting myself but isn't ||it named The World to Win in smash||

[novel fog]

||only CROWNED was after the level names, in TDX FLOWERED was name of cutscene instead, not as a boss song name||

[leaden terrace]

what ultrby just asid

world to win and vagrant keepsake of oblivion

or rather vagrant counting song of retrospection

cus thats what people called P-R-O-G-R-A-M

[coarse flower]

old youtube uploads named them that

[leaden terrace]

well there you go

[urban bluff]

so fannames.

[novel fog]

that is not official

[lost briar]

yes and they're the ones that came up with looming darkness so who's the based one now

[coarse flower]

that's what i was referencing

[leaden terrace]

😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[coarse flower]

i was referencing the fannames from the start

[leaden terrace]

based one???

[novel fog]

and either way FLOWERED was NEVER even a fanname for World to Win

[leaden terrace]

tbh yeah

[coarse flower]

yes it was

[leaden terrace]

i think it was soul of sectonia

but veen then ive NEVER seen anyone call it FLOWERED

[coarse flower]

those are the same song

[leaden terrace]

not even a video

[novel fog]

it was a fanname for Moonstruck Blossom instead

[coarse flower]

i swear brawlbmx

did

[leaden terrace]

world to win is the song that plays in the main game ending

[coarse flower]

before it was deleted

[coarse flower]

no world to win is the sectonia vs hypernova theme

[coarse flower]

no

[leaden terrace]

yeah

exactly

[coarse flower]

i never heard moonstruck blossom be called flowered

[leaden terrace]

its either moonstruck blossom or soul of sectonia

my memorys kinda bad tho

[novel fog]

you can see it on really old fan uploads
never seen it for World to Win

[leaden terrace]

i only remember like

a

SINGLE instance

of moonstruck blossom be named flowered

[coarse flower]

aren't soul of sectonia and world to win the same song

[leaden terrace]

thats how rare it is

no

soul of sectonia is basically like a remix

[coarse flower]

i swear it was world to win they named flowered

[leaden terrace]

or whatever they call it

[novel fog]

in fact, JP wiki mentions it being a fanname/misnomer for Moonstruck Blossom, because of just how common it was

[coarse flower]

no it's just the original but it starts midway through

[leaden terrace]

theyre still different

different enough to be considered separate

soul of sectonia has its own unique parts that sets it apart

[coarse flower]

ok

i think it was used on both at various points

all the world to win ones must've been taken down

[coarse flower]

not really?

[leaden terrace]

dude listen to them.

theyre like

SIGNIFICANTLY different

different melodies

[coarse flower]

i listened

in the damn game

[novel fog]

yeah they have new intro at least

[coarse flower]

they are exactly the same after the intro

[leaden terrace]

nope

[coarse flower]

they are the same

[leaden terrace]

nope

[coarse flower]

but soul of sectonia starts halfway through

[leaden terrace]

nope, soul of sectonia's melody starts right after the intro

[coarse flower]

you are lying to yourself @leaden terrace

[leaden terrace]

and its completely different

[celest grove]

you both are saying the same thing

[coarse flower]

no it's just world to win but it starts halfway through

[leaden terrace]

yes i am saying real things

[celest grove]

The only change is a different and longer intro

[coarse flower]

no he's claiming soul of sectonia is a completely different song

[leaden terrace]

yeah the intro's the main difference

[coarse flower]

in reality ts the same but different intro

[coarse flower]

imo it's not enough to list the song twice

[celest grove]

it is considered a different song if you take into account Planet Robobot's soundtrack

[novel fog]

I think there's different order of the sections too but I do not remember

[leaden terrace]

yeah i guess that works

[celest grove]

And that's where I don't agree

[maiden crane]

i mean technically a new part to a song makes it a different song?

[novel fog]

yeah
also considered different song in Jukebox

[celest grove]

because they did list the equivalent twice in the actual CD OST (and Spotify)

[coarse flower]

it just started halfway through

[leaden terrace]

CD OST for triple deluxe?

[celest grove]

no I mean in Robobot

whoops

[leaden terrace]

ah no i was just asking

[celest grove]

There's also a reuse with different intro

and they did list it seperately

[coarse flower]

yeah but

[leaden terrace]

but yeah id argue even the smallest difference can make a song separate

[celest grove]

with a different name

[leaden terrace]

i think it really depends on how the composer intends it

[coarse flower]

forgotten land doesn't count the shortened version of two planets that plays during chaos-elfilis 2 as a seperate song

[celest grove]

now saying it's completely different is a bit much

[celest grove]

To be honest the differences are so minimal

[novel fog]

that's because it is same song internally and stuff

[celest grove]

but it's also using the same file for it

[coarse flower]

so if tdx was made today, unless NEW music was made for soul of sectonia (or the Taranza V morpho theme) they woudn't be counted as seperate things

[celest grove]

the same file has everything in it, and not as seperate tracks

[leaden terrace]

i guess i went a bit hyperbolic there, it really istn too different but i felt it was enough

imo if they intend them to be separate anywhere, its most likely always meant to be separate

[celest grove]

but more like the game skipping the samples around

[novel fog]

and both versions of ||OVERLORD|| are probably counted as same because ||used in same fight with no obvious transition and no different intros or anything for both of them||

[celest grove]

||They actually put both versions in one just for the sound test||

[novel fog]

yeah

[leaden terrace]

||...which OVERLORD again?||

[novel fog]

||is it the longest ingame song now?||

[leaden terrace]

i get confused with some of the song names sometimes lol

[celest grove]

not sure

[novel fog]

||it's like 7 minutes isn't it||

[novel fog]

||True Arena Magolor Soul fight, originally from Magolor's Morpho fight in Star Allies||

[leaden terrace]

right rtdldx

was it really that long?

[novel fog]

||both versions together in sound test yeah||

[leaden terrace]

to be honest i was so engulfed in the sheer quality of it ||(waiting for no voice ver)|| that i never truly grasped at a loop lol

[celest grove]

||Nope, The Battle of the Blizzard Bridge is still the longest song (if I count them with a single additional loop||

[leaden terrace]

oh wow

[celest grove]

||But I need to properly check without loops||

[novel fog]

||oh really? thought that was only 6||

[vocal latch]

||Would HEARTLESS PROGRAM count? ||

[novel fog]

||I mean, idk about that||

||it is a cutscene anyway right||

[leaden terrace]

probably

[vocal latch]

||Yep||

||I'm kinda sad that NOA made it HEARTLESS MACHINE instead||

[leaden terrace]

||heartless machine sounds infinitely cooler i cant blame them||

[vocal latch]

Definitely, ||but program fits more with the funny acronym||

||And it being the final Program and whatnot||

[celest grove]

nvm

I was wrong

[leaden terrace]

lol

[celest grove]

RAW:
||Void theme is 6:13||
||Overlord in RTDX soundtest is 7:10||

||it is the longest song||

[thin willow]

If they stay true to Kirby's true size (three apples tall), they could make the human (who is probably what the ancients are in Kirby lore) a tabu type boss

[leaden terrace]

Woow

it really is 7 mins wow

[celest grove]

and I calculated it without any loops

[thin willow]

Imagine a large humanoid figure towering over Kirby

[celest grove]

like, I just make it cut right when it loops

so this is RAW data here

[leaden terrace]

(Shadow of the Colossus theme starts playing)

https://tenor.com/view/sotc-gif-24748847

[thin willow]

Just realized
That would make f-86 the size of an actual rat test subject thing

[celest grove]

I think HAL would eventually do this literally one day

[thin willow]

They kinda did with void termina

[celest grove]

yeah but you don't really notice the size that much

HAL has not really played around too much with that

[leaden terrace]

imagine a full-size human did appear but theyre not even evil

[thin willow]

The mago epo final boss plays around with the idea too

[celest grove]

I think even bigger than that

[leaden terrace]

the sheer size of them makes them absolutely terrifying though

[celest grove]

like, the biggest Kirby boss ever that surpasses all the others

like SOTC lol

[leaden terrace]

LOL Yeah

[celest grove]

HAL will eventually do that

it's probably going to be simple

[leaden terrace]

imagine, you fight a human-sized boss and the only thing that can fit in the screen at the time is just one of their limbs

[celest grove]

but just like Chaos Elfilis, it's a simple boss, but it's visually taking you into a ride

and HAL is REALLY good at that

[leaden terrace]

the eye, the hand, the foot

maybe even the mouth

[celest grove]

(note that I said simple boss, not necessarily easy)

(but the pattern is actually pretty discernible)

[leaden terrace]

yeah i was gonna say, elfilis is not too eventful of a boss yet the presentation is still pretty impeccable compared to the other bosses

the intro alone just beats them all imo lol

[celest grove]

HAL is really good at presentation

they think it's important

[leaden terrace]

the way HAL just loves to play with the sense of scale

[celest grove]

(Nintendo doesn't)

[leaden terrace]

elfilis is not that large

but when the camera zooms out from the name drop, you see the shadow covering the majority of the rooftop

and the tiny silhouette flying right in front of the sun looks so much larger that way

(the wings do help with that too)

[granite cedar]

elfilis is not that large

kirby is that small

[celest grove]

lol

[granite cedar]

i love how much FL emphasizes that Kirby is tiny child

[celest grove]

To be honest it emphasizes how the inhabitants were also small

[thin willow]

Makes it all the more concerning when he eats a car

[celest grove]

considering the heliport size

[leaden terrace]

LIKE LOOK AT THIS

i love this shot sm

[granite cedar]

yeah FL is VERY cinematic its impressive as hell

and ||epilogue|| shows that its not just one time thing

[thin willow]

That's nothing compared to when chaos elfilis summons that giant clone (talking about size, not cinematography)

[granite cedar]

2d games also gotten cinematic

[celest grove]

I dare say it got cinematic since Triple Deluxe

when they started to use the camera to emphasize things

[granite cedar]

3ds games def started doing this

but this was heavily held back by hardware

[leaden terrace]

imo what they did with sectonia's battle was fucking awesome

[granite cedar]

...this is why we need remakes for those games

[leaden terrace]

like not just haha flower sectonai i mean the FIRST PHASE

that one blew my mind when i first saw it

[granite cedar]

imagine how breathtaking they would be with rtdl dx's level of visuals

[leaden terrace]

the transitions to the crystal platforms, how the camera moves according to sectonia's attacks

[thin willow]

I think Robobot was incredibly cinematic
That shot of the Kirby halberd did a good job of communicating how Big it is

[leaden terrace]

its so simple yet i still like it more than most other bosses

[celest grove]

Robobot pushed the presentation further

[leaden terrace]

(nothing beats phase 1 magolor tho.)

[celest grove]

during boss fights too

[thin willow]

That nova reveal.....

[celest grove]

Star Allies though...

what a downgrade

[thin willow]

I don't think that's fair

[celest grove]

At least the final boss is worth it

but I do think all of what was on 3DS was just gone

[thin willow]

The termina fight was great
And the EX super duper spicy EX deluxe termina fight was sick

[granite cedar]

yeah star allies was flatter than return to dream land even

[leaden terrace]

tbh i dont think they had the time or resources to really just blow it out of the park again so i can like

let it pass

[celest grove]

Well even if it's not fair

[granite cedar]

like rtdl at least had bosses that had going into the background and shit

in sa its all on 2d plane

boring

[celest grove]

Gotta deal with the reality of what came out

it's a downgrade on that front

[leaden terrace]

yeah 😔 👊

[thin willow]

The shot with the crown lasers was Soo imposing

[granite cedar]

its a combination of many factors

so im not blaming hal too much

but it doesnt disregard the reality of the result

[thin willow]

(even if dodging was easy across all difficulties)

[leaden terrace]

i always fear having to go through that move no matter who uses it

[granite cedar]

and considering how both fl and dx went back (or i guess, forward) in terms of presentation, it means that hal devs knew it too

[celest grove]

Meanwhile FL they had the idea to not let the player control the camera much

[leaden terrace]

it just twists ur sense of depth

[celest grove]

...which also meant that for presentation it's a bonus

[leaden terrace]

or whatever ithat is they called

depth perception yeah

oh my god im relearning basic terms

[leaden terrace]

honestly i feel like they already chose the perfect middle ground

no need to make the camera more free or stuck

[celest grove]

They did that because they thought of that game as usual with Kirby

it needs to be a good game to start gaming with

[leaden terrace]

it shows the best parts of kirby thats always been there, now in its fuller glory

basically no need to break out of your boundaries, only expand them

which is exactly what the ydid this entire game and its amazing

[granite cedar]

FL demonstrated that open ended level design can work even with this type of camera with the wastes where the life began

so i hope theyll experiment more with this type of level design in next 3d game

[celest grove]

I still think HAL will eventually cave in to open world but as usual; also for all kinds of players

which also means potentially creative solutions to how the camera can suck and how to fix it

[leaden terrace]

idk if open world fits kirby entirely

maybe itd be a good experiment

[celest grove]

I think everything fits with Kirby

[leaden terrace]

but its gonna be tough imagining kirby in a fully fledged open world

[celest grove]

I think HAL can do anything

[leaden terrace]

imo

[granite cedar]

thing with when people propose stuff like this they overlook

that HAL wouldnt just literally pluck kirby and put him into botw

[celest grove]

Also yeah

[granite cedar]

they would design the style AROUND the fact its a kirby game

[leaden terrace]

yeah HAL can do whatveer the fuck they want lol i trust WHOLEHEARTEDLY in them, its exactly how we got FL

[celest grove]

HAL is not going to take the same design choices of other open worlds

they will cherry pick

and then add their own ingredient to it

[leaden terrace]

the only problem is the practicality of it. hows kirby's usual level design gonna fit into an open world? maybe itd be like uhh... uhhh... super mario odyssey? idk i dont play open world

maybe theyll keep it simpler than the others

[granite cedar]

i think the easiest path they can take with "simple open world" formula for kirby is to establish clear goals so newbie players would have direction while spreading side-objectives along the way to give the sense of scale

[leaden terrace]

that is what they did with pokemon... i guess

[celest grove]

They will probably take the tower ideas again

because it is a decent landmark everyone gets

[leaden terrace]

i mean ill admit pokemon seems to have a good idea on what their open world should be

[celest grove]

The other thing with Kirby is also instinct

and how to train it

[leaden terrace]

yeah

[lost briar]

they will take the logical course of action and give kirby EXP, Level Ups, and Skill Points/Trees

[celest grove]

not necessarily

I think they won't do that

[lost briar]

i'm being sarcastic

[granite cedar]

yeah and towers are already iconic part of the series so it wouldn't be out of place

butter building and sky tower are some of the most well remembered levels in the series

[lost briar]

why are these in every open world game now 😭

[celest grove]

that said Kirby RPG is not out of our realm

[leaden terrace]

a kirby mmorpg would be such an oxymoron

[granite cedar]

i think

that kirby unlocking new skills in an open world game is not out of realm of possibility

i dont see them going straight up for exp and levels up though

[celest grove]

yes that however I can see

I can also see them using Waddle Dees to save again in an open world

[granite cedar]

tbh

[leaden terrace]

id rather they leave that to the abilities tbh

[celest grove]

disperse things to find in an open world? perfect

[granite cedar]

i think they would do something bigger in scope this time around

[leaden terrace]

theyre still v relevant and useful

[granite cedar]

if its an open world

why just waddle dees

[leaden terrace]

i guess the only problem is their accessibility

[lost briar]

finally
i can save the blade knights

[granite cedar]

when you can use established cast to save (or more variety of species depending on the area)

[leaden terrace]

IF were going to use the copy abilities in a fully fledged open world

maybe items?

[celest grove]

the issue that HAL takes the most seriously is accessibility and ergonomics

[leaden terrace]

yeah

[granite cedar]

i think waddle dees can serve as "tutorial" or "easiest to grasp" collectible

and then introduce the idea that they are not only ones who are captured

[lost briar]

waddle dees serve as marketable living plushies

[granite cedar]

thing about hal

is that i dont think they would literally reuse the same idea for collectible as FL without some sort of twist on it

[celest grove]

HAL still does like Nintendo mostly though

it's shaping the game visuals around the game design

[granite cedar]

because they never really did that

[lost briar]

i think they'd just make waddle dees enemies again tbh

[granite cedar]

they had collectibles that basically FUNCTIONED the same

but they always had different purpose/lore in-universe

[leaden terrace]

they can just make up a new thing

no risk in doing that

[granite cedar]

but another thing about waddle dees

...is that them being collectibles is genius lol

so it would be hard to top

but i have faith in hal

[leaden terrace]

true

[celest grove]

The thing I do wonder is whether a Dream Land 3D game would exist

[leaden terrace]

so true