I mean
#Pokemon Scarlet-Violet Spoiler Thread
spiral oasis
It probably toggles every switch
ornate token
That makes it very balanced then
spiral oasis
Idk thats my guess
rustic raft
bro why are tinkaton's stats ASS
85/75/77/70/105/94
160 bp move
attack ain't even close to 100
100/135/120/60/85/50 so Kingambit loses 20 speed, but gains +35 HP, +10 ATK, +20 DEF and +15 SP.DEF
Of course with eviolite existing idk if that trade off is great
oblique lodge
Nah it's a great trade
If you run eviolite bisharp you really miss the power boost from glasses/orb
Kingambit can run that on top of having the higher attack
ionic fjord
There’s no way it gets knock off
rustic raft
110/115/80/50/90/90 for annihalape btw, loses 10 special and 5 speed for this chonky statline
would've liked -15 special over losing that 5 speed which will matter for scarf, but doesn't seem bad
also to get Annihilape you need to kill and revive it in the same battle apparantly
so impossible for nuzlockes
ornate token
That 100 HP benchmark is important for a sub to not lose to Seismic Toss i think
rustic raft
Oh huh, thought it had to be 101 hp
ornate token
HP as in base HP
For a sub itself it’s 101
But base 100 is enough to get 404 HP invested
And the thing is, the +35 HP boost is actually a lot more significant than you’d think tbh
Cuz that essentially boosts both defense stats
ornate token
So you’re effectively gaining more bulk compared to just investing the same amount of points to one side
rustic raft
plus its signature ability is
HELLA nice
I just wonder what the evo requirements are
ornate token
Well it’s a shogun
So maybe do a 1v6
Or something
Or win with Bisharp as the last mon standing
brave igloo
The bulk gain on kingu is nice, but the loss in speed on a Pokémon that is intended as THE anchor is a bit rough given you might need more setup to ensure it can sweep through
Sucker punch helps of course, but 50 speed is a detriment against even defensive mons chipping at it
ornate token
People who intended to use Gambit as the anchor was severely optimistic tbw imo
Like, you have to make absolute perfect prediction to not lose to a single Sub
And protect is gonna waste your PP anyways
You should just use this as a wallbreaker
Rather than an anchor
Anchors shouldn’t even have low speed tbw
That slot is reserved for things like the Beast Boost mons
brave igloo
Either that or you design team to take care of specifically non-walls
ornate token
Gambit can function well as a sweep-breaker imo
it cannot blast its way through a whole team
brave igloo
Like it’s all about recognizing what Pokémon stand up to Kingambit and either forcing your opponent to be left with none of those Pokémon or only those Pokémon disadvantageously
brave igloo
Like by team preview the opponent is figuring you’ll play to gambit anchor but you could just design a team to pivot off a second possible anchor that covers an entire different line of Pokémon than gambit
And have gambit then pivot to breaker
ornate token
brave igloo
Leave the opponent in 50/50 on who is your anchor
Jokes on you, core is flexible 4 and I can pick from 2 anchors that can both function elsewhere
oblique lodge
anchor?
brave igloo
Finisher
Wrap up the game even when outnumbered. Can tear through specific lines of Pokémon if the rest of the team set up what the opponent has left correctly
balmy monolith
Cetitan might be a good slush rush user
170 hp 110+ atk and 73 speed is good stats for a weather user
Whats more snow also has a weather pivot move
Let me repeat that, snow now has a weather set up pivot move
balmy frigate
How does Dudunsparce work
ornate token
well
most of the time it's just a late game sweeper
like Scarfed Blacephalon for example
balmy monolith
yup
balmy monolith
https://twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1590887982390996992?t=7eMgqpJFEA8wCmJ5OLa...
hisuian samurott now has sharpness as well
and ceaseless edge counts for it
also ceaseless edge now drops spikes after the damage
balmy monolith
Is it just physical quiver dance
The user performs an intense dance to usher in victory, boosting its Attack, Defense, and Speed stats.
yeah physical quiver
ionic fjord
Wowsers!
balmy monolith
Distribution probably super low
literally just liligant
stone axe makes stealth rock after the damage btw
maushold has the funniest moveset
its gets a 2-10 hit move with technician and also a DD that gets rid of hazards and subs
spiral oasis
10 hit 
balmy monolith
10 hit <:monkaGIGA:652734094664269835>
yes it's called "population bomb"
gloomy hollow
do we have power and accuracy on the pla moves yet?
balmy monolith
not yet
aside from wave crash
which is now water flare blitz!
chloroblast should be the same but for grass i think
gloomy hollow
did it lose priority then?
balmy monolith
yeah it lost priority sadly
gloomy hollow
aight
oh right i think h typhlosion got frisk, and i don't remember what h decidueye got
spiral oasis
Scrappy
gloomy hollow
that's at least decent
rustic raft
balmy monolith
typhlosion now has flash fire
wait nvm
it now has frisk
flash fire was it's old one
spiral oasis
Does basculegion get adaptability
balmy monolith
yes and swift swim too
spiral oasis
Damn
balmy frigate
Ok so two things about the anime:
-Ash will likely be done.
-Pika has a gap in it's Cap variants for a 9th
balmy monolith
so either go hard or go quick
oh right! you guys want to know about lokix?
Swarm // Tinted Lens 71 102 78 52 55 92 450
balmy frigate
Ok so two things about the anime:
-Ash will likely be done.
-Pika has a gap in ...
So ummm
New protag perhaps
balmy monolith
Swarm // Tinted Lens 71 102 78 52 55 92 450
Learned Moves:
Lunge @ Lv. -3
Tackle @ Lv. 1
Leer @ Lv. 1
Low Kick @ Lv. 1
Detect @ Lv. 1
Struggle Bug @ Lv. 4
Astonish @ Lv. 6
Assurance @ Lv. 9
Double Kick @ Lv. 11
Screech @ Lv. 14
Endure @ Lv. 18
Bug Bite @ Lv. 22
Feint @ Lv. 28
Agility @ Lv. 32
Throat Chop @ Lv. 36
Sucker Punch @ Lv. 40
First Impression @ Lv. 44
Bounce @ Lv. 48
Axe Kick @ Lv. 53
-3 means learn at evo
gloomy hollow
New protag perhaps
and this has what to do with sv?
balmy frigate
The fact we will probably get either another season of Ash or a new pika in SV
gloomy hollow
yes, the anime, not the games
balmy frigate
Yeah but also the games because we could get a new Cap Pika
ionic fjord
Does Meowscarada get knock off
gloomy hollow
we have no idea what's gonna happen with the anime, so there's no real basis on which to speculate about a new cap pikachu right now
balmy monolith
btw orthworm gets shed tail
balmy monolith
Does Meowscarada get knock off
yes
balmy monolith
https://pastebin.com/hmMECP7P only for level up moves
two pokemon got revival blessing
oh right
garganacl gets SR and recover, he might actually be good
spiral oasis
tf is kowtow cleaver
rustic raft
Learned Moves:
Lunge @ Lv. -3
Tackle @ Lv. 1
Leer @ Lv. 1
Low Ki...
how much BP is axe kick
balmy monolith
how much BP is axe kick
we dont know
rustic raft
damn
rustic raft
At the least it does look like it's not garbage
not good either
but low tier decent
balmy monolith
2 priority moves and good ones at that is good
spiral oasis
no plasma fists for hariyama 
rustic raft
I'll just hope it gets a cross gen evo
+10 speed and +20 atk is really all it needs 😔
balmy monolith
remember we dont have the tm learnset or the potential of a move tutor learnset
i say potential cause chilly reception is missing from both level up lists and tm lists
spiral oasis
klawf doesnt learn shell smash sad
balmy monolith
btw palafin hero move has like 160 atk
balmy monolith
yeah he has a priority move, a water one which, while we dont know the power, we can assume is stronger than aqua jet out of being a signature move
spiral oasis
oh and it learns flip turn by level up
balmy monolith
^
spiral oasis
so I woudl assume that triggers the ability
balmy monolith
it learns wave crash 😄 water flare blitz
it has like no coverage from level up
lol
it does have acrobatics
balmy monolith
here is how to evo charcadet: in Zapapico there is a man you can give 10 bronzor fragments to and he gives you an item to evo charcadet
@rustic raft
rustic raft
oh, nice
ornate token
90 accuracy 
oblique lodge
Hjk still the more baller move
balmy monolith
90 accuracy <:cheems:683182129668292685>
Its just high jump kick but 10 less bp for confuse chance lol
balmy frigate
Yo Samurott got a damage boost HA for Slicing moves
balmy monolith
Yo Samurott got a damage boost HA for Slicing moves
Yes and his sig is a cutting move
That also makes spikes
rustic raft
oh my god
the engine doesn't actually get speed boost
only the team star version does
balmy monolith
GIGA DRILL BREAKER @rustic raft
rustic raft
Neat
rustic raft
so uh, you may or may not like this but...
Yeah I figured
uncut sleet
twin edge
Dude i love that all the shinies for the future mons are chrome
pearl hinge
https://youtu.be/s65n0PmvIm4
"Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe! And that hole will be a path for those behind us! The dreams of those who've fallen! The hopes of those who'll follow! Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix! Drilling a path towards tomorrow! And that's Tengen Toppa! That's Gurren Lagann!! My drill is the drill... that creates the heavens!!!"
uncut sleet
"Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe! And that hole will ...
I'm catching a dunsparce and naming him Kamina
that's it
brave igloo
The wicked Avatar with a hat
balmy monolith
It's the third legend
Whered you get this?
rustic raft
Whered you get this?
Centro shared a screenshot
balmy monolith
Ah
rustic raft
There's a chinese dex entry too
But no translation
Outside of like
Google lens
Twitter
Huh
So they added a new hail setting move, but removed regular hail???
rustic raft
Aromatherapy being gone is probably the biggest on this list right?
plush frigate
here is how to evo charcadet: in Zapapico there is a man you can give 10 bronzor...
yeah I know
plush frigate
<@131023596607897600>
YOOOOO
balmy monolith
So they added a new hail setting move, but removed regular hail???
They replaced it with snowstorm
Hail i mean
balmy monolith
Snowstorm > hail
sour pulsar
Aka stab uturn
brave igloo
They removed Revenge... but not Avalanche?
rustic raft
They replaced it with snowstorm
Oh, I C
brave igloo
also wack that they removed Aromatherapy
sour pulsar
leaf tornado
balmy monolith
You know
Honestly
Im actually quite happy pursuit is still gone
wet briar
not sure why they got rid of vital throw when that was one of hariyama's selling points 
sour pulsar
Who at game freak got hurt by serperior?
brave igloo
poor Lanturn too, they removed Tail Glow
brave igloo
Who at game freak got hurt by serperior?
Pikachu
balmy monolith
> leaf tornado
65 power move
rustic raft
If not i’d still take Return any day
Return isn't in SV
ornate token
wet briar
can we not remove moves for once
sour pulsar
Oh yea right leaf storm was the good one
wet briar
brave igloo
When Garchomp got a multi hit, was it scale shot or dual chop?
Dual Chop right?
wet briar
Scale
balmy monolith
Who at game freak got hurt by serperior?
Are you confusing leaf tornado for leaf storm?
balmy monolith
Got sent late lol
brave igloo
alright way less concerned about Dual Chop being gone
balmy monolith
Dual chop was an okayish move
brave igloo
Poor Xatu
balmy monolith
That was used if you had absolutely nothing else
balmy monolith
You know
Honestly
Im actually quite happy pursuit is still gone
Also you heard me, im actually glad pursuit is gone XD
brave igloo
balmy monolith
Look
brave igloo
balmy monolith
After having played gen 8 meta for a quite a while
Im actually surprised by how much pursuit's absance changed and it was mostly in making things more viable
(Admitedly maybe a bit too viable in dragapults case but my point still stands)
uncut sleet
Pursuit being gone is extremely necessary esp for comp now that all these op abilities got nerfed
Now let’s just delete incineroar from the game
balmy monolith
Actually wait a second @rustic raft why are you sad pursuit is gone? Isnt gengar your favourite pokemon?
uncut sleet
I also think people are underrating how good defensive tera is going to be in comp
rustic raft
Actually wait a second <@131023596607897600> why are you sad pursuit is gone? Is...
Yes, but I love the move pursuit
Also pult
I don't really like pult
uncut sleet
You can sure up weaknesses that’s you couldn’t before
balmy monolith
Fair but pursuit being gone is also the reason why gengar was any good this gen XD
uncut sleet
Also the biggest barrier for comp is going to end up being ttar and pult on early release, if people can figure out ways around those 2, then comp becomes a hell lot more interesting
remote compass
Defensive Tera isn't gonna be as good when your sweeper gets 3x STAB
balmy monolith
Defensive Tera isn't gonna be as good when your sweeper gets 3x STAB
Game people saying its 2x
remote compass
Don't we have the math that says otherwise tho?
uncut sleet
you have to guarantee that OHKO. if you don't, can you 3x stab sweeper take a hit?
remote compass
If it's Luna or TTar or a few others, yeah
uncut sleet
haven't seen anything about this btw, but i assume 1 tera per team in comp
remote compass
It is
rustic raft
Wait btw do we know if shedinja is in
balmy monolith
Don't we have the math that says otherwise tho?
No cause those were based from outdated trailers
balmy monolith
Wait btw do we know if shedinja is in
Also he is not
remote compass
Nah we have the math from the demo too
rustic raft
Also he is not
Coward
balmy monolith
Nah we have the math from the demo too
The calc from the released game is only 2x
rustic raft
Nah we have the math from the demo too
Rom is already out, they probably changed last minute
remote compass
Ah gotcha. 2x makes more sense I guess
uncut sleet
also, something else we should note is, tera benefits a special offensive ttar more than a physical offensive one, just due to the movepool
uncut sleet
you're late summer
balmy monolith
Yeah we saw earlier
uncut sleet
it's spongebob's house
rustic raft
It's a biblically accurate Sphere Mode
remote compass
I still think there's no reason to ever use Tera defensively, but that makes it less insane
uncut sleet
i think you're underestimating how much tera can sure up a team if used defensively
rustic raft
Also was terra blast special or phys
remote compass
Whichever is higher
ornate token
both
rustic raft
Oh neat
plush frigate
Iono uses her teratype electric defensively 
remote compass
Gym trainers hardly count tho
They're not even close to a challenge and they're usually much weaker than the player
plush frigate
levitate mons just having no weaknesses now
brave igloo
Pretty sure the Elite 4 also uses it offensively
Like we are probably more likely to be hearing about casuals getting swept by a terastab in elite 4 than not doing enough damage to Iono's pokemon without weakness available
balmy monolith
Can we talk about ||larry, the most successful everyday man||
uncut sleet
Just a thought as I've been theorycrafting a bit on numbers, but let's consider a scenario such as you have pokemon x. Pokemon x is weak to 5 different types, but also has the ability thick fat so it takes neutral from fire, but all those types are resisted by steel. As an opponent, you know this, so you shoot off a blind earthquake as you know that's the only super effective hit you have, now you, who is piloting pokemon x choose not to tera with this knowledge, making the earthquake do neutral damage vs an already bulky pokemon
The mind games a defensive tera adds to comp play is going to be great
brave igloo
Can we talk about ||larry, the most successful everyday man||
Larry, whose day job is your everyday workman gym leader and whose night job is probably gonna be what casuals complain about in championship
balmy monolith
Lol
uncut sleet
in short a defensive tera imo creates more branching paths than an offensive one
brave igloo
They do, but offensive tera potentially removing switch ins or counters to certain pokemon are the thicker branches of the tree
Defensive tera is playing chess and offensive tera is eating the opponent's pieces
uncut sleet
well of course, but a lot of these offensive tera's will be predictable. Not many pokemon have the capacity to not only chess you but take full advantage of an offensive tera (nidos and ttar come to mind immediately due to their vast move pools)
Also is it just me, or does tera benefit grass types the most?
as ferrothorn you get to keep your move pool and tera water, you're already better than 99% of the bulky water pokemon out there as a result
brave igloo
Just choose different pieces on the board to eat then 
The real strong tera contenders are the ones that can tera into multiple types and have a successful role in similar looking cores
that's a lot easier to do with offensive than defensive
ornate token
me when i click Water Spout
brave igloo
You can't pivot your strategy mid game, but you can still give your opponent enough doubt into what type you dedicated tera to
uncut sleet
yeah that's what I'm saying though, offensive tera becomes infinitely better if you have mon that can utilize it fully and can't be predicted
but idt there's that many mon out there that can
You need to A) Pick a pokemon with a diverse enough move pool and B) pick a pokemon that doesn't die to the slightest hit
Aside from the new pokemon, the ones we know that fit this billing are:
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Tyranitar
ornate token
the inherent problem with Defensive Tera is you can build your team with multiple potential offensive Tera mons and you can pick and choose which one to be the prime sweeper
you cannot load a team with multiple defensive Tera options
and after the first surprise factor of defensive Tera is done, the opponent will pick the next appropriate offensive Tera sweeper to use
brave igloo
Not to mention to cover an appropriate role, Defensive tera has to go into a type that has specific benefit over the original type and provide an unique role in its core
Which is why I think defensive tera is more predictable than offensive tera
If we're gonna go anywhere with this beyond theory, both sides of the argument, myself definitely included, need example cores to proof that out
Which... maybe we return to that once showdown opens up
Defensive Tera's goal is to take away specific paths that the opponent can win by using Tera as a pivot to provide better coverage once certain threats are removed
Offensive Tera's goal is steamroll games by modifying type or power to suit needs against the opponent's team
That's another thing too, offensive tera can benefit from just modifying power as another option to choosing to modify coverage.
Defensive tera has to play to type modification
uncut sleet
Well that's the beauty. Let me add in a specific example Appletun. Grass/Dragon, weak to literally everything under the sun. All its weaknesses are covered by a Steel tera and thick fat makes ground the only weakness. Its non-tera form resists ground. So now you're stuck in a cat and mouse game where it's 50/50. If it is true that mono type tera is only 2X now, this just makes defensive tera infinitely more valuable. And this applies to a lot of bulky grass types that can now ignore a lot while having some of the best stalling moves in the game
rustic raft
wait, *another* pokemon this gen needs Go specific mechanics?
let's go is the autobattle mode
where they follow you
brave igloo
OH
rustic raft
wtf is rage fist and twin beam
brave igloo
great naming pokemon company
rustic raft
@balmy monolith do you have that list of moves or something
also still no confirmation of how to get kingambit
plush frigate
https://twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1591089513560170496?t=rbKWvrDC28rRLbtGQ4A...
for a second I thought that meant I had to go onto Lets Go Eevee
brave igloo
Supreme Overlord replaces Inner Focus
Kingambit can have Defiant
Sucker Punch better still be an egg move
plush frigate
Kingambit is gonna be interesting
balmy monolith
okay all of palafin's coverage is tm moves
plush frigate
😮 IT GETS FLIPTURN
balmy monolith
cetitan's coverage is also tms lol
balmy monolith
Did we have any details on what Kowtow Cleave is?
do you know false surrender?
brave igloo
it's really just a never miss move?
balmy monolith
basically
brave igloo
lame
Real anime moves
Endure Reversal Kingambit
That salac berry totally gonna carry that 50 speed
balmy monolith
btw, chilling water is what i would call, worse scald, but scald isnt a tm anymore so...
plush frigate
balmy monolith
yes
plush frigate
balmy monolith
the hero mode
plush frigate
has flip turn also, for when its time to henshin
balmy monolith
orthworm is scary
balmy monolith
shed tail, stealth rock, iron head body press
pair it with an electric type and just switch it in whenever your opponent tries to eq to heal lol
brave igloo
Cyclizar HA is regenerator?!
sour pulsar
What's a bramblin, again?
brave igloo
What's a bramblin, again?
the tumbleweed poke
uncut sleet
Yeah idk half these new Pokémon names
sour pulsar
Ah
brave igloo
Cyclizar is base wheelie poke
Shed Tail + HA Regenerator and 121 speed
Cyclizar has a lot for utility
balmy monolith
Cyclizar HA is regenerator?!
Yup and shed tail so...
brave igloo
(Points up 2 posts)
balmy monolith
Its actually pretty scary of a support mon
Btw two mons learn revival blessing
One of then is better than the other
Pawmot and the dung beetle evo
uncut sleet
The dung beetle evo looks like a god
brave igloo
Rapid Spin
Taunt
U Turn
Shed Tail
Knock Off
regular Substitute
Rain Dance and Sunny Day
Dragon Tail
Ice Spinner (The Terrain buster move)
uncut sleet
So if it’s not that one
balmy monolith
Rabsca - 75/50/85/115/100/45 (Total: 470) - Bug/Psychic - Synchronize/Synchronize/Telepathy
Learned Moves:
Revival Blessing @ Evolution
Tackle @ Lv. 1
Defense Curl @ Lv. 1
Confusion @ Lv. 1
Sand Attack @ Lv. 4
Struggle Bug @ Lv. 7
Rollout @ Lv. 11
Psybeam @ Lv. 15
Bug Bite @ Lv. 20
Take Down @ Lv. 24
Extrasensory @ Lv. 29
Lunge @ Lv. 35
Speed Swap @ Lv. 40
Power Swap @ Lv. 40
Guard Swap @ Lv. 40
Bug Buzz @ Lv. 45
Psychic @ Lv. 50
TM Moves:
Take Down, Psybeam, Hyper Beam, Dig, Psychic, Confuse Ray, Light Screen, Reflect, Leech Life, Rest, Substitute, Thief, Protect, Sludge Bomb, Mud-Slap, Sandstorm, Endure, Sleep Talk, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Shadow Ball, Facade, Trick, Skill Swap, Imprison, Rock Tomb, Iron Defense, Mud Shot, Calm Mind, Fling, X-Scissor, Bug Buzz, Power Gem, Energy Ball, Earth Power, Giga Impact, Zen Headbutt, Trick Room, Gunk Shot, Psyshock, Electro Ball, Stored Power, Struggle Bug, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic Terrain, Tera Blast, Pounce
Pawmot - 70/115/70/70/60/105 (Total: 490) - Electric/Fighting - Volt Absorb/Natural Cure/Iron Fist
Learned Moves:
Revival Blessing @ Evolution
Scratch @ Lv. 1
Growl @ Lv. 1
Wild Charge @ Lv. 1
Thunder Shock @ Lv. 3
Quick Attack @ Lv. 6
Charge @ Lv. 8
Nuzzle @ Lv. 12
Dig @ Lv. 15
Bite @ Lv. 19
Spark @ Lv. 23
Arm Thrust @ Lv. 25
Thunder Wave @ Lv. 29
Slam @ Lv. 33
Entrainment @ Lv. 39
Close Combat @ Lv. 44
Discharge @ Lv. 49
Agility @ Lv. 54
Double Shock @ Lv. 60
TM Moves:
Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Take Down, Hyper Beam, Low Kick, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Thunder, Dig, Agility, Metronome, Swift, Rest, Substitute, Thief, Protect, Endure, Charm, Sleep Talk, Baton Pass, Encore, Metal Claw, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Crunch, Facade, Helping Hand, Brick Break, Rock Tomb, Bulk Up, Close Combat, Fling, Seed Bomb, Focus Blast, Giga Impact, Thunder Fang, Grass Knot, Charge Beam, Electro Ball, Low Sweep, Volt Switch, Wild Charge, Play Rough, Eerie Impulse, Electric Terrain, Body Press, Tera Blast
brave igloo
Pawmot to me seems like the scarier Blessing pokemon
brave igloo
Better speed, para spread, endure+Salac option if fighting faster stuff, Encore stalling for a setup mon with Bulk Up
balmy monolith
Better speed, para spread, endure+Salac option if fighting faster stuff, Encore ...
Also has a electric burn out
Which has some niche applications
rustic raft
@wet briar what the fuck what did Stall do
uncut sleet
Be boring to watch
This is a good thing for Ren though
As more walls get nerfed, clefable might actually start being halfway decent
rustic raft
As more walls get nerfed, clefable might actually start being halfway decent
Clef isn't in sv
rustic raft
Oh seems like an item evo
uncut sleet
in singles
brave igloo
Yes in singles, you just learned that Clef was in SwSh at all
uncut sleet
I mean, you want me to follow smogon's popularity contest of a format? No thank you.
balmy monolith
https://twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1591101084730380288?t=FR2yRMXJbL8n1kj8WQ6...
Chilling water is now a thing which is what i call, worse scald
Chilling water is 50 bp 100% chance to lower atk
brave igloo
that isn't very stall of you Gamefreak
balmy monolith
that's like 5x worse
They went
"You know how scald is like one of the best moves in the game? How about we instead of nerfing it, with take it away and give them a much weaker replacement"
finite plover
Oh seems like an item evo
Does the item work like held item evo or trade item evo?
rustic raft
No idea
remote compass
Man they really hate stall
sour pulsar
Unlike smogon
finite plover
Dear lord Arceus pls don’t let there be new trade evo in SV, or at least just 1-3 will be fine 
crystal iron
Do any of the new Pokémon compete with Ursaluna
rustic raft
Do any of the new Pokémon compete with Ursaluna
Kingambit
Tbh
Also some of the paradoxes are wack
finite plover
Which one?
pearl hinge
How good is slither Wing again
Haven't seen it's stats except the 135 atk
balmy frigate
I mean, you want me to follow smogon's popularity contest of a format? No thank ...
Did you know some NU mons have niches in OU
ebon path
Also some of the paradoxes are wack
"||iron jugulus||" is the greatest pokemon name of all time
ornate token
GF really do be out murdering every possible stall option
maybe they're trying to marketize Competitive Singles with how aggressively they're killing Stall and how hyper offensive the newly introduced mons and mechanics are
balmy monolith
Well tbf
They did give scald a replacement
crystal iron
"||iron jugulus||" is the greatest pokemon name of all time
The Paradoxes are all so disappointing
sour pulsar
Yes
remote compass
But also, singles has never been a represented competitive format
Well officially
remote compass
Everything prior has been doubles only
twin edge
singles games tend to go to the 100 turn point
balmy frigate
You mean later
twin edge
which is why I think they prefer doubles
uncut sleet
Because it's not a balanced format. The people attempting to balance it are people with 0 actual game balance experience. So much comes down to who your lead is
remote compass
Then they should make all in game battles doubles too
uncut sleet
Singles is like Texas Holdem post flop.
remote compass
99% of the gameplay for most players is experienced in singles
If they don't wanna balance singles, then don't make the game singles
Have it be a side option and balance exclusively for doubles
balmy frigate
Smogon also balances singles
uncut sleet
What they're doing this gen is great for singles yes, but I'm moreso referring to the shmucks at smogon
sour pulsar
Because it's not a balanced format. The people attempting to balance it are peop...
People balancing doubles are also the ones in change of creating incin so, y'know
twin edge
smogon is group theory
oblique lodge
You're assuming intent on smogons part
balmy frigate
You do realize the people who ban stuff at Smogon aren't randos right
twin edge
and they've been much better than they were in the past
oblique lodge
It's inherently all by numbers
balmy frigate
They are people who play this game religiously and are good
oblique lodge
Unless you disagree with the base assumption
balmy frigate
And they ban oppresive stuff
remote compass
People balancing doubles are also the ones in change of creating incin so, y'kno...
Incin, Spectrier, Zacian, Tera, Dynamax, countless other mistakes
oblique lodge
People will try to win
balmy frigate
If you wanna play with your favs, play their format, those are still alive
Gen 5 OU for example is still thriving
They recently banned gems
After a decade
oblique lodge
"they"
balmy frigate
Incin, Spectrier, Zacian, Tera, Dynamax, countless other mistakes
Tbh pre-dlc VGC was great
oblique lodge
The they in question is the only people left actively playing gen 5
balmy frigate
Yeah so the gen 5 community
uncut sleet
Analytics is part of balancing. Take LoL as an example, if the pros were the ones who had a say in how to balance the game, the game would be an absolute shit show in terms of balance. A lot of people not familiar with balancing always try to cite win rate as an end all be all as to why a champion needs to be nerfed, when there's so many more nuances that go into play
Just because you're a pro at a game doesn;t mean you have a good sense of balance.
oblique lodge
It's not the pros
It's the masses
Except when it comes to niche decade old metagames
Then yeah it's the pros
twin edge
its both
oblique lodge
For suspect tests
balmy frigate
I am pretty sure it's both always
oblique lodge
The overwhelming majority of voters
balmy frigate
Some do come down to voting
oblique lodge
Don't play in tours
This is a stat they track
Who plays in tours and who votes on suspect tests
balmy frigate
It's not like smogon let's EVERY decision be made by little Timmy or anything
oblique lodge
There isn't the shadowy cabal
balmy frigate
And trust me cartridge singles is a shit show
oblique lodge
(atleast for current gen)
oblique lodge
Shadowy cabal moment can feel kinda real though for the niche metagames
But Idt that was the issue
remote compass
Oh right, evasion is VGC legal
sour pulsar
Analytics is part of balancing. Take LoL as an example, if the pros were the one...
Thing is, they don't ban things by only winrate
It mostly comes down to restricting teambuilding
remote compass
There's been mons with massive winrates that never ate a ban in their format
balmy frigate
Yeah they have banned stuff for being annoying as fuck, because some mons hold the format together
Banning Snorlax in gen 2 is a bad idea for example
remote compass
Gen 6 Talonflame got suspect tested like 3 times
uncut sleet
Thing is, they don't ban things by only winrate
That was just an example, bigger point was analytics cannot be the ends to a mean
balmy frigate
But they can help
oblique lodge
Then what is
twin edge
I mean
oblique lodge
If you're not literally game freak yourself
Obviously the best solution is to just become gamefreak
sour pulsar
Then what is
Regieleki setting up electroweb
oblique lodge
But we aren't gamefreak
sour pulsar
But we aren't gamefreak
Speak for yourself
twin edge
Kyurem was specifically banned because of how it effected gameplay
Guess the wrong set? Lose
oblique lodge
Kyurem was banned because the majority of people voting decided to
To vote, it's very accessible
sour pulsar
Kyurem was banned because the majority of people voting decided to
But the suspect test started because of what doxxy said
oblique lodge
Without direct gf oversight how else do you make a decision
Other than "ask a bunch of people do some tests ask them again"
balmy frigate
The only time they nerf something is banning an ability
oblique lodge
Idk, the only way you can disagree with Smogon IMO
Is if you disagree with the base assumptions it's built off of
It's very accessible to be able to vote btw
You just need like an hour or two
remote compass
Yup, as long as you've got any points in the meta you can vote basically
fallow reef
any more info about the egg legendary ?
twin edge
not in the game so no data
sour pulsar
Well, we have to make content for the pre planned 20$ dlc, so we're cutting away content that would normally be in the base game
-Gamefreak, probably
brave igloo
Remember, there is an alternative universe out there where you had to buy emerald dlc for RS just to get Rayquaza
sour pulsar
Distortion world dlc for bdsp 
Man
The battle bond change is so fucking weird to me
ornate token
Remember, there is an alternative universe out there where you had to buy emeral...
false that was 2004.
sour pulsar
Gren is the most popular mon of all time, ash form was undeniably a part of that, why remove it?
ornate token
DLC didn't exist.
ornate token
that shit is buggier than my basement
uncut sleet
I always question if the reason greninja is the most popular Pokémon of all time is because when they came out was peak naruto, and ninjas were the “in” thing
fallow reef
yo egg is sick
also wait...
is it planet size....
is that earth itself terrastallized...
ornate token
it's an illustration
no human would ever be able to illustrate something as big as the earth back in that era
ornate token
gloomy grail
https://twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1591101084730380288?t=FR2yRMXJbL8n1kj8WQ6...
made a list of special water moves we have
blue being unique to a special mon/class, red not being avalbile in modern gen and purple being very limited to who gets it.
this gen is not a great time to being a Sp.Atk water mon
oblique lodge
Ferro keeps winning baby
Ferro isn't in
ornate token
then why is it in the "no major losses" category
ornate token
weird that they're showing mons that aren't in for whatever reason
gloomy grail
relooking at it alot more pokemon can learn muddy water than what i intial thought
balmy monolith
then why is it in the "no major losses" category
Thats the SS chart
Not the sv chart
crystal iron
||after all all these paradox mons ain't real||
could you elaborate on this?
gloomy grail
sup Dek
crystal iron
hi Vale
gloomy grail
its like you read my mind
crystal iron
I just ||really want an excuse to dismiss the designs lol||
fallow reef
could you elaborate on this?
||what we know is that they are imaginary creations that somehow exist when they should not.
think of them like the stuff from Pokémon 3: The Movie (the not so real entei)
thus a paradox||
crystal iron
How can a paradox be real
"if you want peace you must prepare for war" is a paradox that is also true
or at least sometimes true
Failing at something is how you succeed
fallow reef
funny how they reused another anime/movie gimmick (that was just a 1 off thing)
crystal iron
||what we know is that they are imaginary creations that somehow exist when they...
ok good ||because they suck||
balmy monolith
ok good ||because they suck||
This was the context i was talking about
crystal iron
I see
balmy monolith
While they did technically come out of the ||time machine|| they arent as they say
balmy monolith
Likely in the dlc
Since we get the ||time machine|| explanation from the end game
plush frigate
Oh seems like an item evo
yes item evo
from what I remember you have to kill 3 bisharps holding the leaders crest, with the bisharp you want to evolve who is also holding leaders crest, and then level up once
planned team
oblique lodge
day 1 patch changes some bsts
Ting-Lu 165/110/130/50/80/45 -> 155/110/125/55/80/45
Chien-Pao 80/130/80/90/65/135 -> 80/120/80/90/65/135
Wo-Chien 85/90/100/100/135/70 -> 85/85/100/95/135/70
Chi-Yu 55/80/80/145/120/100 -> 55/80/80/135/120/100
brave igloo
LOL
remote compass
WOW
brave igloo
So now Luna can pick between EQ and preserving defenses or having better damage number and slightly worse matchups
remote compass
I'm sure Luna gets that too
brave igloo
Literally just Luna and Torterra
edgy garnet
Torterra buffs are pog
gloomy hollow
I'm sure Luna gets that too
luna got in pla, so yeah
in fact i want to say luna was the only pla mon to get it, or at least one of the few
i don't remember it having much distribution
maybe torterra got it too?
regardless, will be interesting to see how ursaluna does, i guess
it's still slow as hell and has abusable defensive typing, so jury's out
balmy frigate
https://twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1590846992594378753?t=UFPJl7cbQL9siH5N2Qu...
Recently they really wanted to make offense strong
Now they are making it too strong
Remember when people thought making stall worse was going to make the meta fun?
uncut sleet
it's still slow as hell and has abusable defensive typing, so jury's out
That's what I'm saying, idt Luna is going to be a gatekeeper the way I expect Tyranitar and the Nidos to be in the early meta
uncut sleet
they did this for sun and moon though?
balmy frigate
I said this with Gen 8 and I will say it now, RPGs are by design unbalanced
balmy frigate
they did this for sun and moon though?
One thing is launching with the stat changes and the other to implement a patch for them
Unless lazy design, this could mean something
uncut sleet
I wouldn't expect gamefreak to push out balance patches on a cycle tbh, it's still gamefreak
I think we'll get answers depending on who exactly was changed
if it was only new pokemon then we got our answer
if it was a mix, then we might be in business
sour pulsar
Also fixed an error IN A PATCH
That's what patches are for tho?
balmy monolith
Chilly reception on the slowkings 😮
Grimmsnarl got buffed
He has parting shot now
This means he has priority parting shot
The guy is the ultimate screen setter
ionic fjord
ionic fjord
Tinkaton got that Serperior type beat stats
spiral oasis
The dolphin transforms on switch out so nobody sees it happen
Superman in a phone booth style
Thats some nice flavour
Parting shot on grimm is pretty vrazy
Does sableye get it too 😈
spiral oasis
flutter mane goes crazy
oblique lodge
I think the box legends will stay in Ubers
dude what walls meraidon at all
you cant even cope on ferro
hes gone
spiral oasis
iron donphan
oblique lodge
max spdef arceus ground gets cooked by draco
you get 135 spa + terrain boost + ability boost + item
spiral oasis
does ground fairy exist 
ionic fjord
What do the genies’ signature moves do again
Not that they’ll prob be (available) in the game on release, but still
plush frigate
it's prevo Finizen looks exactly the same, minus the heart
but it has an ability that transforms it into Hero form once it swaps out 😄 which has incredible stats
oblique lodge
lando-i also gets nasty plot now
so hes going from too broken for ou to never will see ou again
spiral oasis
I;m reading about how the sushi fish/dodonzo thing works
apparently it becomes a 2 vs 1, but dodonzo gets +2 to all stats
uncut sleet
Wait why are we questioning what walls miraidon? Does it have a broken ability or something
ionic fjord
Wait they also get the boost wtf
oblique lodge
koraidon sets sun + gets the boost
uncut sleet
Oh so it’s Zacian, but better with a worse typing
ionic fjord
Y’know
oblique lodge
Oh so it’s Zacian, but better with a worse typing
zacian never got the terrain boost
and zacian cant hold an item
ionic fjord
maybe we should keep flutter Mane in Ubers
balmy monolith
Is the weordest thing in the world
oblique lodge
so this thing is doing considerably more than zacian i think
balmy monolith
sets eterrain + gets the same boost as proto/quark drive
Its always sp atk*
uncut sleet
Assuming it keeps the boost even if terrain changes yeah?
rustic raft
okay imma be real, I'm still way too bothered by removing Set Mode, why the fuck does GF hate QoL
and why the fuck do fans defend it
"just press b every time ever"
balmy monolith
Maybe it will be added in the day 1 patch cause apparently the day -7 patch is not the day 1 patch lol
oblique lodge
Assuming it keeps the boost even if terrain changes yeah?
probs not
the boost is tied to the terrain i think
ionic fjord
Ye
spiral oasis
why? did it lose grassy glide or something
ionic fjord
Ye
oblique lodge
lele isnt anything special in ubers
ionic fjord
Tapus aren’t in
balmy monolith
to contest merai
Is there any uber level pokemon that learn ice spinner?
ionic fjord
no?
spiral oasis
i mean, it might be now
oblique lodge
im assuming down the road
spiral oasis
since it is the best rival terrain setter i would say
uncut sleet
Tapus might be in the dlc
balmy monolith
Ice spinner is an ice type move that removes terrain if there is terrain
oblique lodge
come back later with home
oblique lodge
Ice spinner is an ice type move that removes terrain if there is terrain
the psuedo legend?
balmy monolith
The question is
Any uber mons that run it?
balmy monolith
the psuedo legend?
No its a common move
oblique lodge
idk what it is
spiral oasis
its steamroller
balmy monolith
Its not actually
balmy monolith
Since apparently it doesnt fail if there is no terrain
ionic fjord
Is protean once per battle or per switch in
spiral oasis
switch
rustic raft
latter
uncut sleet
Once per switch in
ionic fjord
Ok
balmy monolith
Switch
ionic fjord
Meowscarada will be cool then
uncut sleet
Once per battle would be an overnerf
ionic fjord
It being one of the few knock off mons is huge
spiral oasis
rilla losing grassy glide is insane
oblique lodge
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ground: 270-320 (60.8 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
spiral oasis
is it because there isnt a tutor
rustic raft
how tf do protean and terra interact anyway
uncut sleet
That’s a good question
plush frigate
my team with names
balmy monolith
The user covers its feet in thin ice and twirls around, slamming into the target. This move's spinning motion also destroys the terrain.
ionic fjord
Meowscarada’s signature is also really good
oblique lodge
tera might just overwrite everything that changes typing
like burn up
theyve done it before with like dmax
random things to force the gimmick through
ionic fjord
(This is assuming that Tera will be Ubers legal)
plush frigate
Like Palafin's name? hercu-seas
oblique lodge
Like Palafin's name? hercu-seas <:nyaruhodo:873056991973634078>
aqua dolphin
spiral oasis
I like the idea of skeledirge
oblique lodge
id probably name it marine neos
uncut sleet
We’ll see, they might not let the box legendaries tera ala dmax for swsh
oblique lodge
to make it more recongnizable
spiral oasis
I have a soft spot for mon like that
ionic fjord
80 bp +1 attack every you use it is cool since you have decent stats already
oblique lodge
even without tera though
spiral oasis
a bit slow, a bit defensive, a bit strong
oblique lodge
merai and korai are coming in with +1 spa/atk
uncut sleet
All I’m saying, if you all don’t name your dundunsparce kamina, you are wrong
plush frigate
cuz its ability is "Zero to hero", like the song
oblique lodge
and a weather/terrain
balmy monolith
what is miraidon's speed again?
ionic fjord
Skeledirge gets no recovery for some fucking reason
spiral oasis
I saw that in the egg move list
ionic fjord
Oh I’m blind
balmy monolith
faster than weavile...
ionic fjord
Ok this mon is cute then
balmy monolith
thought weavile could ice spinner it
spiral oasis
its signature move is nice too, so it has a role
defensive mon weak to ground is wack, but i'll live
ionic fjord
The starter signature moves are cool
oblique lodge
oh it gets recovery
ionic fjord
Meowscarada def uses it the best
spiral oasis
always critting is very nice for vgc
oblique lodge
dunsparce gets a sig move that goes through protect
spiral oasis
although I think the only intimindate mon in the dex is arcanine right
ionic fjord
Man
spiral oasis
maybe krook
spiral oasis
can't say for sure, but it can't kill both mon
and it certainly won't live both attacks
balmy monolith
there is an uber level pokemon who can contest miraidon, chien-pao gets ice spinner and speed ties
oblique lodge
once you draco the ground type
uncut sleet
Oh wtf, there is no intimidate changes after all?
oblique lodge
lando lost explosion
spiral oasis
does someone have the stat paste handy
oblique lodge
and toxic knock
spiral oasis
🙏
uncut sleet
I mean lando might not even be in this gen
spiral oasis
clodsire keeping water absorb is pretty good
balmy monolith
so chien pao one shots miraidon with ice spinner
ionic fjord
Why does like every new mon have 80 speed
uncut sleet
It’s the sun and moon special gooey
spiral oasis
all their speed came out of their spdef
uncut sleet
I might eat speed while playing this game
spiral oasis
big ghimmighoul has 133 spat
uncut sleet
Now I just got to figure out a way to squeeze the most gameplay possible on Friday knowing I won’t get to play on Saturday due to my wedding anniversary
uncut sleet
Whats it’s bst?
ionic fjord
501
spiral oasis
no eviolite sadge
uncut sleet
That’s not bad, solid defenses or hp?
ionic fjord
121 speed, 70/65/65 bulk
brave igloo
yeah Cylizar is nuts
uncut sleet
I mean that’s not horrible, it dodges status moves with its ability too right?
brave igloo
121 speed, Regenerator, a plethora of support moves including shed tail
spiral oasis
kilowattrel seems ok, 3 good abilities
balmy monolith
252 Atk Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 372-440 (109 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
it's -1 due to sword of ruin
uncut sleet
Is Chien-Pao it’s official name or is the localization going to be like Iron Antlers
plush frigate
official name
balmy monolith
Is Chien-Pao it’s official name or is the localization going to be like Iron Ant...
Chien-pao is the leopard though
oblique lodge
Is Chien-Pao it’s official name or is the localization going to be like Iron Ant...
this is def what yugioh would do
uncut sleet
So what’s the metal deer
remote compass
Man it sure sucks that the starters are FULLY shiny locked
uncut sleet
It’s been that way for a while now though
balmy monolith
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/997586655433216081/1040760833157902356/un...
Tinkaton's hammer is a decolorised shiny corviknight due to overuse
uncut sleet
As is standard for them to be ha locked
spiral oasis
clodsire gets haze, nice
remote compass
Not fully
They can't be bred shiny either
They've been encounter locked for a bit
But this is the first time you can't breed for a shiny starter
uncut sleet
Also mass outbreaks being in the game is going to make everybody and their mother having 20+ shinies
remote compass
Yeah, shinies just aren't valuable anymore
uncut sleet
Which is good
balmy monolith
So what’s the metal deer
Ting-lu
balmy monolith
I really dislike people putting value on things just cause its rare
oblique lodge
i wish shinys were more accessible in the earlier gens
so more people could expereince them
i bet so so many people dont know they existed
and finished the games
remote compass
But now that you can get a shiny of anything you want in like 20 minutes, it doesn't feel like they're really particularly special now
spiral oasis
wow skeledirge is the highest BST unaware mon by a long way
oblique lodge
But now that you can get a shiny of anything you want in like 20 minutes, it doe...
thats only if you hunt for it though
most people dont
im talking in the pure casual playthroughs
rustic raft
Twitter
oblique lodge
maybe people who spend all thier time specficially reseting rng for a shiny shouldnt complain about shiny saturation
rustic raft
'zenta is paying for his sister's crimes
ionic fjord
Ik
uncut sleet
Hey they forgot to nerf the 2 biggest culprits: kyogre and groudon
That plot armor had to run out one day
spiral oasis
I wonder if ruinious sword mon gets it
remote compass
That's because they're not in the game
rustic raft
Hey they forgot to nerf the 2 biggest culprits: kyogre and groudon
ye but groudon now isn't even the best at setting sun
koraidon sets sun and gets a stat boost
rustic raft
Hear me out
Choccy in untiered
sour pulsar
brave igloo
Wait, the abilities on the new mons set the weather as well? I thought it was just the boost effect
oblique lodge
Hey they forgot to nerf the 2 biggest culprits: kyogre and groudon
the year is 2040
every vgc restricted meta is still
sun vs rain
ionic fjord
They’re setters
brave igloo
jfc
rustic raft
Wait, the abilities on the new mons set the weather as well? I thought it was ju...
they set the thing and then get a boost
brave igloo
God can't save us
oblique lodge
Wait, the abilities on the new mons set the weather as well? I thought it was ju...
boost + set
so in damage output
theyre better than pre nerf zacian
rustic raft
I don't fucking get why
oblique lodge
on both sides
ionic fjord
Why do they get the boost
oblique lodge
- they can hold an item
ionic fjord
Being setters makes sense
oblique lodge
imagine if it got rising voltage
spiral oasis
their sig moves are only 100bp
sour pulsar
"Only"
spiral oasis
and koraidons is fighting - i thought it was fire type oops
brave igloo
I mean yeah it doesn't hit as hard as Zacian does, but in exchange it is a setter with still really respectable damage
oblique lodge
doesnt it hit harder
sour pulsar
At least you can still nuke it with xern- oh yea all legends are locked for dlc content
brave igloo
Miraidon is a whole different bigger can of worms
and the worms in its can are actually snakes
really, really fast snakes
sour pulsar
Man
The fact that gf got away with locking QoL features they already have ready for dlc is actually insane
oblique lodge
The fact that gf got away with locking QoL features they already have ready for ...
modern gaming baby
brave igloo
i haven't been keeping up, which feature(s) is that
brave igloo
yeah set mode I knew about, but what's locked behind DLC as QoL?
sour pulsar
Actually
spiral oasis
fast text mode /s
brave igloo
Set mode isn't actually locked behind DLC right?
brave igloo
fast text mode <:cheems:683182129668292685> /s
you joke, that'll be gen 10
sour pulsar
But the fact that they suddenly cut stuff like the battle tower, day care, and the 3rd legend is extremely concerning