Magic the Gathering

[tardy echo]

And emberheart challenger

[subtle sierra]

sigh do i add another izzet card from soa into my deck

[tardy echo]

Yes

Sigh does moxfield have all the soa stuff

I wanna start building…

[subtle sierra]

it does

it uses scryfall

and it just updated

[tardy echo]

With the final reveals too

?

[subtle sierra]

like i run literally just the dragon and exhale here not from sos

[subtle sierra]

ye i just added outburst

like izzet is eating so fucking good this set

it's crazy

like i do not exagerate when i say i think this is the best magic set, ever

wotc straight up released pote

[tardy echo]

I would certainly not go that far

But it is a very good set

It is the perfect set hand crafted for you specifically though

[subtle sierra]

ok my perception is skewed ig due to me being a new-ish player

[tardy echo]

And also hand crafted for me specifically…

[subtle sierra]

perhaps, even the white stuff control wise is great

it's stuff you can easily add to jeskai

but i wanna do tidecaller memes

[tardy echo]

Should I splash white or blue @sleek ferry

Secret third option neither

[subtle sierra]

add black

be golgari

you know you want to

[tardy echo]

I’m already on black

[subtle sierra]

see i know you already

[tardy echo]

But B/G has some pretty longstanding holes in it

[tardy echo]

Yeah bro not like I’ve been saying I’m gonna play golgari this entire set preview…

[subtle sierra]

sigh let me be smart for once

[glad peak]

You’re my smart lil wabbit

[subtle sierra]

i should change my pfp to smth mtg

[stark skiff]

Woah this is neat

[subtle sierra]

yeah it is

[stark skiff]

Man this set has a lot of good shit

[subtle sierra]

i love it

[stark skiff]

[glad peak]

Draft mythic uncommon

Unless boros turns out to be shit

[sleek ferry]

https://youtube.com/shorts/GR-Ya0dJHsQ?si=XYslrRXZSMDGSCIJ

[tardy echo]

Is there any 4/5 drop that just wins the game the same way that sheoldred did

[twilit canyon]

karn tgc vs plenty of decks

[glad peak]

Used to be glorybanger

[tardy echo]

Sigh not standard legal though I was considering

I’m also not sure if [[hollowmurk siege]] is worth

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/tdm/192/hollowmurk-siege

Hollowmurk Siege <:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
As this enchantment enters, choose Sultai or Abzan.
• Sultai — Whenever a counter is put on a creature you control, draw a card. This ability triggers only once each turn.
• Abzan — Whenever you attack, put a +1/+1 counter on target attacking creature. It gains menace until end of turn.

[tardy echo]

But it seems good…?

Idk I’m on 4x sentinel 3x requiting 2x ooze so surely it’s fine

[twilit canyon]

jace the mind sculptor then

or do u mean current current

[sleek ferry]

You have Michelangelo that draws

There’s a solid amount of tmnt cards that are undercooked

[tardy echo]

Is bro in standard????

I was mostly looking for creatures anyways

[twilit canyon]

ah for current

no idts

even ouroboros just

[tardy echo]

Wanted something to cheat with [[vastlands scavenger]] that is also good to curve into regardless

[twilit canyon]

hmmmmmm

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/sos/166/vastlands-scavenger-bind-to-life

Vastlands Scavenger <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Bear Druid
Deathtouch
This creature enters prepared. (While it's prepared, you may cast a copy of its spell. Doing so unprepares it.)
4/4

Bind to Life
Instant
Mill seven cards. Then put a creature card from among them onto the battlefield.

[tardy echo]

Yeah ouro is prob my best bet

[twilit canyon]

yah i can only really think of ouroboros

[tardy echo]

Atm I’m trying elegy acolyte/leatherhead

Which don’t just win outright but both have strong applications

Leatherhead might go to side and ouro in main though

[tardy echo]

Which one

There’s so many I’m sorry not even trying to be facetious

I was thinking of the 1G extra counter guy but don’t think I have quite enough synergy for that

Ahh I found it

[sleek ferry]

Yeah there you go

I was looking under Michelangelo and couldn’t find it

[stark skiff]

This is hot

[twilit canyon]

target creature only

fuck

could have been top tier but that restriction...

at least hit walkers

[subtle sierra]

hah

[knotty ferry]

Is there anything good for my humble dimir midrange deck

I'm skimming through the cards but I can't see anything that's useful lol

[tardy echo]

The 3 mana black boardwipe is prob good in the side

put this together in about 30 minutes, this feels so scuffed but test hands have felt v nice

[subtle sierra]

light mode aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[tardy echo]

i have eye disease that makes dark mode a pima

[subtle sierra]

oh ok fair

i just got flashbanged

[tardy echo]

main considerations are either speeding it up a lot (making it a cub deck) or slowing it down a lot (playing sultai )

but if i do cub stuff it feels v hard to justify playing golgari in the first place

i wanted to try the 3 mana discard sorcery but when i realized it wasnt random it just sucks unfort

[subtle sierra]

cub/ouroboroid got a new toy this set

the converge thing

[tardy echo]

simic cub decks got a lot of new toys this set

but yeah the archaic guy is prob legit

[tardy echo]

also kraven is on the chopping block

Aside from that other considerations are ral vs delian (or to just cut pws), whether qarsi is worth the inclusion, and changing the removal lineup (probably likely)

[subtle sierra]

I feel like removal lineup will change a lot after release

I think the set will shake up the meta a little

[tardy echo]

Also would like to play preacher but the 3 drop slot is a little occupied

Maybe more reason to remove kraven/qarsi

Btw im shocked there wasn’t a commander that said “you can cast a prepared spell at any time for wubrg instead of its mana cost” or something like that @golden plover

I applaud wotc for their restraint

[golden plover]

Literally. It is crazy there's not a wubrg commander this time

[subtle sierra]

They decided to not release an all college student

Or smth

[golden plover]

Would've been REALLY funny to have a commander that prepared Coalition Victory

[tardy echo]

Wait that’s the funniest shit ever actually

[tardy echo]

I was sort of expecting a college president or something

Idk does strixhaven have one of those

[subtle sierra]

No clue

[tardy echo]

Or is it an equally shared college

[subtle sierra]

But i think like

[tardy echo]

Who hired the new deans…

Also I’m v surprised we didn’t get the mono white Liliana in this set

[subtle sierra]

When this enters, all creatures prepare. Prepared spells cost wubrg less to cast. And a dumb prepared spell.

Hire me wotc

[tardy echo]

I think this would’ve been funnier gg

And also slightly more balanced

[golden plover]

Actually I'm mad they didn't do a wubrg Coalition Victory commander now

Although... Are there any off color prepares?

[tardy echo]

Idts

[subtle sierra]

As in literally or off color wheel?

Cause there aren't any off color

Idk wheel

[tardy echo]

I think there are mono colored that prepare double colored

But no G prepare B or anything

[subtle sierra]

Idt there's any two color prepares spells, no?

I skimmed the images on the boring cards

[tardy echo]

In the commander set there are

[subtle sierra]

Oh ok

[tardy echo]

But I just checked and they’re all on color

God why does [[immoral bargain]] have to be in the commander set

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/soc/47/immoral-bargain

Immoral Bargain <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice X creatures.
Destroy X target nonland permanents.
To control a spell, you must first strip it of its flesh and bones.

[subtle sierra]

Actually i should check all the cards, I'm going to 3 prereleases...

[golden plover]

The prepare spells are also cast from exile btw

PROSPER KEEPS ON WINNING

[tardy echo]

Also did anybody see the new faerie mastermind art

It’s v good

I actually lowkirkenuinely hated the old one so

[golden plover]

Yeah it's a lot better

[subtle sierra]

wait what

[golden plover]

They're ruled as if you're casting a spell from exile

Unfortunately this doesn't help prosper

[subtle sierra]

ok sure

[golden plover]

Because they're copies

[tardy echo]

To be fair where else would they be cast from

[subtle sierra]

i just thought they appeared and that's it

from no location

[tardy echo]

Wotc creating a new zone called the twilight zone for this mechanic

[subtle sierra]

look ygo has location where there isn't a location...

xyz mats are something and they are somewhere

fuck knows what and where

[golden plover]

That's terrifying

[tardy echo]

Well they used to be on the field

But then Konami realized that that was just a little unhealthy

[subtle sierra]

yeah but they don't leave the field

they vanish into the aether

[tardy echo]

No I mean

Konami used to treat a detached xyz mat as going from field to gy

[subtle sierra]

they didn't

community made it up

[tardy echo]

Is this Mandela effect

[subtle sierra]

i think so

[tardy echo]

I swear I was playing the game when this happened

[subtle sierra]

might be for me too but vice versa

[golden plover]

Actually technically [[Garth, One Eyed]] sorta does this in a weird way too

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye

Garth One-Eye <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
: Choose a card name that hasn't been chosen from among Disenchant, Braingeyser, Terror, Shivan Dragon, Regrowth, and Black Lotus. Create a copy of the card with the chosen name. You may cast the copy. (You still pay its costs.)
A humble appearance belies a master's skill.
5/5

[tardy echo]

It just got changed in like a week

And ppl thought it was like an actual thing and it wasn’t

Like it was just a one event ruling

[golden plover]

Garth sorta technically has a secret wishboard in commander because these are treated as being in your board

[subtle sierra]

considering ocg prob had it early i think tcg players just fucking made it up

or like bad event ruling

[tardy echo]

It was a bad event ruling

But it still happened

Utrecht moment

[golden plover]

Garth has a really funky ruling

I think it's been changed with MH3 tho

[tardy echo]

Is it because he doesn’t say from outside the game

[golden plover]

Reading his rulings it got changed yeah

[subtle sierra]

but yeah xyz mats are weird how they have no stats or types or anything but there's just cards that reference them and they work because ?????????

[golden plover]

Before MH3 he had a wishboard and you could wish in any of his cards

Now they're just copies like other cards can make

[subtle sierra]

another thing is that if you negate summons/activations the cards go to the gy from the spooky zone

aka from nowhere

[golden plover]

We should have a spooky zone in every card game

Oh I did find a magic card that had one

[[God Eternal Kefnet]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/war/53/god-eternal-kefnet

God-Eternal Kefnet <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Zombie God
Flying
You may reveal the first card you draw each turn as you draw it. Whenever you reveal an instant or sorcery card this way, copy that card and you may cast the copy. That copy costs less to cast.
When God-Eternal Kefnet dies or is put into exile from the battlefield, you may put it into its owner's library third from the top.
4/5

[subtle sierra]

i like the word limbo the most to describe it

[golden plover]

Kefnet technically casts spells from the deck

[fallow citrus]

does this work with miracles

I assume not

[golden plover]

Oh weird. Kefnet is super funky lol

[golden plover]

You can miracle the one you draw, but his copy can't be miracled

[fallow citrus]

ohhh sick

[subtle sierra]

wait i forgor this existed

i needed a bomb for my wish board

bro is just free cast anything from gy

due to how much i cycle

[tardy echo]

If u miracle an x spell with lorehold does it automatically do x = 0

[subtle sierra]

yes

no wait

yeah

the cost is modified to 2

it has no X

same reason you can't do X for airbent spells

if you want it to work with X it must have X in that modified cost like this

if it doesn't, oops

[knotty ferry]

Ah yeah, didn't consider sideboard cards

I'll take another look then

[subtle sierra]

spat do you even have heals in the deck

idt it's worth otherwise

there's [[ruinous waterbending]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/tla/118/ruinous-waterbending

Ruinous Waterbending <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery — Lesson
As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may waterbend . (While paying a waterbend cost, you can tap your artifacts and creatures to help. Each one pays for .)
All creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn. If this spell's additional cost was paid, whenever a creature dies this turn, you gain 1 life.

[subtle sierra]

like ik cecil transformed has lifelink but

[knotty ferry]

I didn't read the card

Does the 3 mana black boardwipe not work

[subtle sierra]

it only has an upside if you healed

otherwise it's just ruinous waterbending

[tardy echo]

Bats also have lifelink

[subtle sierra]

oh yeah bats

sure then

[tardy echo]

Seems fine enough

A lot of the time -2/-2 is also enough vs decks where u want a boardwipe over single target

[knotty ferry]

I'm running day of black sun and deadly cover up, arent those just better than this if you don't get to use the infusion part?

[tardy echo]

This is 3 mana vs coverup is 5

[subtle sierra]

and black sun has X

[knotty ferry]

Yeah

That's true

[tardy echo]

Black sun for 3 is -1/-1 right

I forget the cost

[[day of black sun]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/tla/94/day-of-black-sun

Day of Black Sun <:manax:292901509082120202><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Each creature with mana value X or less loses all abilities until end of turn. Destroy those creatures.
The solar eclipse robbed Firebenders of their ability to firebend, giving Team Avatar an eight-minute window to storm the capital and defeat the Fire Lord.

[subtle sierra]

ye

[tardy echo]

Yeah

[subtle sierra]

but it turns them off

[tardy echo]

It mostly depends on the field

Wait to see what ppl are playing

[subtle sierra]

deleting tokens for 2 mana is crazy tho

[tardy echo]

Diff wipes and removal are very differently good into different decks

[knotty ferry]

Also, what am I supposed to side [[disdainful stroke]] into? I'm trying to think of decks with big mana spells, only things I can think of off the top of my head are stuff like jeskai revelation and maybe some of the red white dragon cards?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/47/disdainful-stroke

Disdainful Stroke <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Counter target spell with mana value 4 or greater.
In retrospect, using storm magic against a storm giant was not the wisest strategy.

[tardy echo]

Would dimir ever play the brainstorm guy @twilit canyon

[subtle sierra]

reanimator anything

superior is 4 cost

[knotty ferry]

Superior spider man you mean? Yeah true

[twilit canyon]

in a midrange shell...?

idts

[subtle sierra]

most other revives (not that they're viable) are 4 plus

[twilit canyon]

a bit too much mana

low kaito synergy

[subtle sierra]

otherwise it's fine into control but if you get to the point you need to stroke you probably already lost

[twilit canyon]

maybe in the side?

[knotty ferry]

I was looking at one of the flying guys from SOS but it was 3 mana

[twilit canyon]

though wan shi tong is probably better raw for dimir

[subtle sierra]

mr washington...

[tardy echo]

Isn’t it a 1 drop

Not emeritus the other guy

[twilit canyon]

the brainstorm guy is not emeritus right they actually added recall to that one

[tardy echo]

Ya

[knotty ferry]

I was looking at this

[twilit canyon]

trio has no evasion

[tardy echo]

Ah true

I kinda thought this was a 1/2 for some reason

[subtle sierra]

trio eats shit to every removal imaginable

[twilit canyon]

if it had decent stats at least maybe

[knotty ferry]

Yeah it's just weaker than other one drops

[tardy echo]

Not that it would make it a huge difference but

[twilit canyon]

but its a 1/1 with no evasion that means its kinda cooked

[knotty ferry]

For my deck

[twilit canyon]

also the deck does not struggle with drawing cards

[tardy echo]

They should’ve given it prowess

[twilit canyon]

annother great victory for lessons

[tardy echo]

Also I wonder if the looting shell will make a comeback

This set has some huge cards for it

[subtle sierra]

btw the set introduced like 10 diff red colored pings

x/1s are not living

and i think most are ok-ish enough to be played

[twilit canyon]

such is the life

[subtle sierra]

i think post sos being a x/1 is a huge detriment you have to think about

even moreso than after iroh's demonstration came out

but maybe i'm wrong

[tardy echo]

Misty while ur here can I ask for feedback

[knotty ferry]

btw one thing ive learned which i guess is really obvious is how important power/toughness is

i know it sounds troll

but its like

INSANE

[subtle sierra]

it really is

[knotty ferry]

legit if u just change 1 number a card can go from bad to good

[subtle sierra]

wait til you get to play red as a removal engine

[tardy echo]

It’s v important to know when stats matter and when they don’t

[subtle sierra]

then toughness is so fucking important

[knotty ferry]

like a lot of times, when i drop kaito, i often can't afford to draw because i need to protect it from the next turn

so i go for the +1

[twilit canyon]

hm

[knotty ferry]

emblem shit

[subtle sierra]

even 1 damage can put you over the line of "this can out an important meta card and this can't"

[twilit canyon]

i think even if midrange, you'd be remiss to not try the lands package

[subtle sierra]

say sear vs other 2 cost instant removals

[knotty ferry]

yea

like cecil for example being 1 mana 2/3 just makes it so crazy in the early game

[subtle sierra]

if you play deal 3 it can't out ouroboroid

[tardy echo]

It’s also important to know when a format sort of decentralizes the value of stats

[twilit canyon]

badger mole cub + icetill + 4 fetches + 4 of the sack lands that makes a treasure for you with obsessive pursuit (iirc?) can create a lot of advantage

[tardy echo]

If for example top decks are on a lot of non conditional/non damage removal

[knotty ferry]

yeah ofc

its dependent

[tardy echo]

Which land are u talking about sorry

For treasure

[twilit canyon]

idr the name it kills an opponents land for 1 and then it makes you a treasure

[subtle sierra]

ah i remember the times you drop gftt and they go "it's an artifact, actually"

[twilit canyon]

its a cave iirc

[tardy echo]

Ahh

[knotty ferry]

i was looking at this card too, but i think it's just worse than requiting hex in most scenarios

[tardy echo]

It’s a little different but as a removal spell much worse

[subtle sierra]

you're welcome

[twilit canyon]

not it

[subtle sierra]

fuck

i mixed them up

[twilit canyon]

yep

this one

[subtle sierra]

they're both colorless grey shit

and caves

and pay 1 tap

[twilit canyon]

true

but this one kills restless reefs and other annoying lands

[subtle sierra]

it's just demo field sidegrade

[tardy echo]

I was also considering assassins trophy for demo field slot

[twilit canyon]

with badger mole cub and icetill tho it can end up kinda hot

[subtle sierra]

one less mana for no land for you in exchange for treasure

[twilit canyon]

yeah the idea is to mix this with [[obsessive pursuit]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/tla/112/obsessive-pursuit

Obsessive Pursuit <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment
When this enchantment enters and at the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life and create a Clue token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
Whenever you attack, put X +1/+1 counters on target attacking creature, where X is the number of permanents you've sacrificed this turn. If X is three or greater, that creature gains lifelink until end of turn.

[tardy echo]

Does anybody remember that card is standard legal btw I feel like I haven’t seen it a single time ever aside from when I play it

I know it’s not as good as it used to be but…

[twilit canyon]

trophy is just meh

this is also why i think the 1 mana white card that destroys wont be as good as ppl expect

giving a land is a huge drawback nowdays

[tardy echo]

Pre rotation last year I was playing BG with it in the side for UW control to snipe reefs/fountainports

[sleek ferry]

One of the most underrated cards from avatar

[tardy echo]

And also for the mono white deck to hit Elspeth

It felt v nice but ofc matchup situational

[subtle sierra]

misty can you evaluate my cope?

[twilit canyon]

one sec

let me like

put something together as to the other one that i was thinking about

[subtle sierra]

ye i saw you boot it up

i have steam in stalker mode

[twilit canyon]

but for this i saw izzet cards and automatically tuned off im sorry

[subtle sierra]

😭

[twilit canyon]

i love izzet but its probably super cope rn

[tardy echo]

I also was thinking abt pursuit but my issue is just that idk if i have enough mana to cash in on clues/take advantage of the artifacts

The curve is sort of tight but I guess with cub that issue gets alleviated

[subtle sierra]

it felt really good in hand testing but mtg doesn't have edopro to actually test shit pre arena

so i can't really say

[twilit canyon]

yeah not real matches

[subtle sierra]

the deck vomits out casts tho while maintaining advantage and removing so the mill is solid

[twilit canyon]

but moxfield can usually let you try hands

[subtle sierra]

ye i did that

like literally making hypothetical scenarios into meta

it was like, fine

the practice mode is cute

[tardy echo]

I really wanna play a sultai list but my fear is that it is simply too cope

[subtle sierra]

dw cake we're both coping

[tardy echo]

And/or it wouldn’t let me play the really fun cards

U cope on a different level than I do

[subtle sierra]

sigh

[tardy echo]

You just wanna cast traumatic critique for 5 I wanna resolve [[planar engineering]] 4 times in a match we are not the same

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/sos/158/planar-engineering

Planar Engineering <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
Sacrifice two lands. Search your library for four basic land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
"All growth comes at a cost. It's up to each of us to determine if the result is worth the sacrifice." —Oracle Jadzi, to Tam

[subtle sierra]

i wanna cast traumatic critique for 2

[tardy echo]

This is what my heart truly desires but unfortunately I must shackle myself to playability

[subtle sierra]

i actually think the ping on it is meh but it's an on cost looting that's instant

[tardy echo]

I want to cast Eugene on turn 4 but alas I’m forced to cast dellian fel instead

[subtle sierra]

spellementals told that is playable af

[tardy echo]

If bg got more tools to ramp out of the graveyard in this set I would’ve gone sicko mode already though

But the support just isn’t there

Imagine elves 1 cub 2 rampant growth double engineering on 3

I’d ejaculate

9 mana on turn 4 simply delectable

But they overbalanced my child and it can only grab basics

[twilit canyon]

this was the core idea

i didnt add more shit

just the base for a gb midrange list

[tardy echo]

Ahh yeah I saw this shell a lot while I was looking

[subtle sierra]

it's so funny that izzet can do 8 mana turn 4 now, ignore that it will never happen

[tardy echo]

Doesn’t it normally also play [[weirdness to 11]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/tmt/121/michelangelo-weirdness-to-11

Michelangelo, Weirdness to 11 <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Mutant Ninja Turtle
When Michelangelo enters, create a Mutagen token. (It's an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this token: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. Activate only as a sorcery.")
If one or more +1/+1 counters would be put on a creature you control, that many plus one +1/+1 counters are put on it instead.
1/1

[twilit canyon]

lands portion with esper origin
sac portion with pursuit and mutagen man

i dont like mikey here

i feel like just this + good cards is better

[tardy echo]

Felt

I wish it wasn’t a 1/1

Ends up being a 3 mana 3/3 but bleh

[twilit canyon]

yeah thats super whatever and sure it makes badger mole + ba sing se stronger in a way

but like

[tardy echo]

Those cards already win u the game most of the time

[twilit canyon]

obsessive pursuit is doing this but better when set up and you are a midrange deck in the end

yep

[tardy echo]

Improving wincon vs lessening the lose condition

Pursuit sort of feels like how eidetic memory did

Prob not going to end up with the same long term impact but it’s a v clear comparison

Almost makes me want to look thru to see if anything w/ bargain or other permanent sac stuff is worth the inclusion

[twilit canyon]

yeah from the new set too...

ie

witherbloom

charm

[knotty ferry]

i swear that mutagen man card is good, does any deck play it? idr what ive faced it in

[tardy echo]

Yeah I’m playing charm already

[tardy echo]

A couple lists do

Is there anything else that takes advantage of infinite clue tokens

How cope is [[deadly brew]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/soc/303/deadly-brew

Deadly Brew <:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
Each player sacrifices a creature or planeswalker of their choice. If you sacrificed a permanent this way, you may return another permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
No one ever asked what was in Dina's concoctions, so long as they worked.

[tardy echo]

Oh wait this only recurs permanents grrr

[sleek ferry]

Yeah, you’ll see lists on it, it’s a very good mana sink that also discounts you

[knotty ferry]

whenever ive faced it its crazy

[twilit canyon]

yeah hmmm if it could be a regrowth...

sure

[knotty ferry]

also, did someone win some tournament with this blue red artifact turbo deck? ive faced it twice today already

with the tmnt artifact cards

[sleek ferry]

A tournament? Probably not. An mtgo challenge? Probably

[twilit canyon]

oh

emeritus of abundance will probably be good in this list

[sleek ferry]

And since I know the question is coming; Mtgo is basically this super old and outdated mtg client, where boomers still play and think it’s the best thing ever

It’s like DB, if DB looked like somebody vomited on it, and then wiped diarrhea on it just in case

[twilit canyon]

modo is almost as old as i am

its of legal voting age by a few years now

[sleek ferry]

That’s crazy cause it’s older than me

[tardy echo]

I will withhold further comment until I actually get to try it but I think this card sort of seems donkey doodoo

[knotty ferry]

yea ive heard about it

i watched a guy play on it

[tardy echo]

I know standard doesn’t have any real regrowths aside from the weird tdm card but I can’t imagine having actual regrowth vs permanent/creature only is a huge upside for the deck

[twilit canyon]

having 2 should be fine when you are milling a decent amount with icetill

and being a land deck

[tardy echo]

ig I’ll see

If I wanna play that I’ll prob try the new ral since he can reanimate her

Regrowth the pw pw reanimate the regrowth… that’s the circle of life…

Ig I mostly just think she’ll feel worse than formidable speaker

I’ll find out in 2 weeks though!!

Ty for the assistance misty

[tardy echo]

Also do u have any thoughts or feelings on sultai control

[twilit canyon]

its sultai which means its unfortunately cope

[tardy echo]

Yeah …

[twilit canyon]

though i guess we can see as the meta develops

tho if the dragons never had a chance... idk what could

[tardy echo]

This looks awesome but I just have concerns on ending the game

[twilit canyon]

that was a strong set of dragons overall with a good supporting cast

[twilit canyon]

in theory, you are using ral and dellian as your end game punishes

[tardy echo]

And at the point where ur on a creature lineup like that the 3 drop raccoon feels sort of superfluous

[twilit canyon]

also emeritus in end game can in theory just win everything ever

in theory

[tardy echo]

Spend 5 mana to find a utility piece gg

[twilit canyon]

also i disagree

raccoon -> icetill millin over lands

will be kinda hot

[tardy echo]

Ah sorry I don’t mean like that I understand the end game win condition

Mostly just like

The actual literal close out the game condition feels a little fragile/volatile

[tardy echo]

Also this is a v good point

I’m sure I can work something out ty again for the help

[twilit canyon]

oh i mean yeah but im a psycho

i will win with ba sing se over the course of however many miserable turns the opponent wants to keep playing with me atp

[tardy echo]

Well I think im wording it a little poorly also but like

[twilit canyon]

i do get it tho

tho i think obsessive pursuit will generally be able to push a kill faster than expected

[tardy echo]

Playing pixie I realize that no matter how strong the shell of ur deck is if ur wincon is chipping someone to death, it’s inherently going to be much easier to get lucked out by a top deck than if ur playing an actual finisher

[twilit canyon]

yeah and it happens

[tardy echo]

Which historically led me to places that no normal person should ever go

[twilit canyon]

but that is the weakness of these types of lists

in theory: dellian + obsessive pursuit set up can cause a ohko

[tardy echo]

Oh actually

Yeah

Dellian ult is normally ass but if ur that far ahead it gives u really easy kills

Turns charm into a burn 5

[twilit canyon]

i feel like the dellian response is a bit subdued cus ik walkers arent like

be all end all rn

[tardy echo]

Doubles all ur damage

[twilit canyon]

but

he is actually kinda stupid

[tardy echo]

Nah I see the dellian vision

[twilit canyon]

same w ral

[tardy echo]

Ral is lowkey lotv 2

[twilit canyon]

may be better ngl

[tardy echo]

Sidegrade

[sleek ferry]

I think it’s better

[twilit canyon]

its like lotv + last hope combined

slightly worse and better in some areas than both

[tardy echo]

Reanimate vs edict

But the discard is better

[twilit canyon]

and the ult is basically gg forever even if you never get there realistically

tho in this deck he can actually just draw cards

[tardy echo]

I think if cub/prowess get toned down then ppl will realize that there are a lot of very strong pws in the format

[sleek ferry]

Those surveils are also almost a card with Icetill in your deck

[twilit canyon]

icetill will likely go down as an all time goat card ngl

[tardy echo]

Already did

[sleek ferry]

All timer from an all timer set

[tardy echo]

Like I know cub plays/played it on occasion but oko is like a sneaky good card

[twilit canyon]

llorwyn oko?

[knotty ferry]

whats a pw

[twilit canyon]

yeah kinda

planeswalker

[knotty ferry]

oh lol

ofc

[tardy echo]

I don’t think he’s goated but he came out to a p negative reception that idt he really deserves

He’s seen tournament success in a standard that is pretty hostile to the card type already

[twilit canyon]

mhm

[tardy echo]

Tdm ugin is also like secretly insane but they haven’t enabled a deck like that yet

I was stealing wins from little Timmys for a while with that guy

[twilit canyon]

yeah and they left it for modern

[tardy echo]

It’s a shame that we haven’t been getting pws because of UB

[knotty ferry]

the colorless ugin?

[tardy echo]

Ugin is always colorless but yes

[knotty ferry]

that guy seems good

[tardy echo]

The 7 mana that exiles

Very strong card without a proper home

[twilit canyon]

its homeless in standard

but yeah its really good in modern

[knotty ferry]

i played vs it in a dragon deck but idt that was a real deck

[tardy echo]

He’s the new Karn for Tron isn’t he

[twilit canyon]

ye

[tardy echo]

I’m shocked it took them that long to fill the slot

[twilit canyon]

same

i think karn has a place still but

fuck at least guaranteed 2 removals from one blast

[tardy echo]

Karn has an upside of potentially culling his own answers much more directly than ugin

But in every other sense ugin is a much better card

If ugin ults the game literally just ends on the spot no potential for robbery

The other thing I wanna try with sos cards is seeing if there’s enough support for actual factual blink in standard rn

[twilit canyon]

evaluated: i dont love it. i feel like this is the exact sort of deck that would want a planeswalker to win off of. but idk if we have it.

[sleek ferry]

We haven’t been getting pw’s because most of them lost their spark lol

[subtle sierra]

well i have ral in my side

[twilit canyon]

ik but it would wanna be mained and idt hes enough enough

though granted: im not sure what sort of walker could be printed to get over the hump in that spot

maybe a torch of defiance

4 ability liner in red with basically you'd want in a red/x list

• advantage
• for mana

• for removal
• decently realistic ult

[tardy echo]

Ok but we also literally haven’t been getting sets where they could print them

Pretty sure all but 1 in universe set since mom has had pws in it

[knotty ferry]

holy, just played vs the thugs deck

[tardy echo]

But can’t exactly fit a planeswalker in New York

[knotty ferry]

RAKDOS PEED

[twilit canyon]

i dont think rakdos can do that

[tardy echo]

He must be able to

[tardy echo]

She rotated unfort

[twilit canyon]

no ik im just giving an example as to what i think would be the power level of a walker for an izzet list

[tardy echo]

Ahh

What’s the Chandra in foundations do again

[[chandra flameshaper]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/fdn/81/chandra-flameshaper

Chandra, Flameshaper <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+2: Add . Exile the top three cards of your library. Choose one. You may play that card this turn.
+1: Create a token that's a copy of target creature you control, except it has haste and "At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice this token."
−4: Chandra deals 8 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or planeswalkers.
Loyalty: 6

[tardy echo]

Urgh

7 mana is kinda crazy for that

[twilit canyon]

they set her up for failure

should have actually just reprinted torch of defiance

not like they were against reprinting old walkers

[tardy echo]

Foundations reprinted an ajani didn’t it

I forgot which one though

[twilit canyon]

vivien

[tardy echo]

But also reprinted dreadhorde

[tardy echo]

It did all 3

But it was a bad ajani

Dreadhorde and Vivien are the important ones

[twilit canyon]

literally the only new ones were kaito and chandra

wtf

i get it with kaito

[tardy echo]

I feel like vivien has a p high success ratio btw

[twilit canyon]

but not with chandra atp

oh yeah actually i was gonna bring her up i do actually like that vivi

[tardy echo]

Especially as far as like a semi central mono colored planeswalker goes

[golden plover]

Ngl I do feel like new Kaito is close to good

He's not there, but I tech one when I play Dimir and he serves his purpose

[twilit canyon]

its too much do nothing

[golden plover]

I don't know what a deck that'd fully want him looks like

[twilit canyon]

one where azure beastbinder would be good too

[tardy echo]

She’s always kind of a dry card but I’m pretty sure most of them were playable?

[golden plover]

But he's not bad for "your curiosity connects this turn"

[tardy echo]

V unfortunate that viviens design concept is just infinitely cooler than her execution ever is though

[golden plover]

And he's got that "you win the game" ult

[tardy echo]

Forest ranger who summons the forest out of her bow is sick as fuck

And in practice they just make her an overrun machine and draw cards

[golden plover]

True, its sad all her cards are boring and she's just kind Garruk too

I think SNC Vivien and Ikoria Vivien were okay for showing what she wants to do

[tardy echo]

Not all her cards

Monsters advocate is hype

And on the hunt

The one that lets you cast all creatures with flash is also p cool but her actual abilities are sleeper

[golden plover]

True. But again, her design space is too similar to Garruk

[glad peak]

all of those cards they could just slap on garruk and no one would tell the difference

[tardy echo]

Well fortunately they forgot garruk existed entirely

So

[glad peak]

nah, garruk's coming back

vivien isn't

[tardy echo]

Also garruk wouldn’t tutor creatures

[golden plover]

Yeah, it's just kinda lame when two Planeswalkers have the exact same design space

[tardy echo]

But the rest of her stuff is all garruk repeats

[golden plover]

I'll still be forever mad they made Lukka a fucking idiot in ONE and then killed him off

[tardy echo]

[sleek ferry]

Guess how many pw’s are in foundation buddy

[tardy echo]

Jobber of the year award

[sleek ferry]

Too many is the correct answer

[golden plover]

Lukka had a lot of potential for a really interesting design space of changing his second color and some of his abilities per plane

[tardy echo]

Buddy is crazy

[golden plover]

Isn't there just 5 walkers in Foundations?

[tardy echo]

Thugs is just mad that pws are cool

[glad peak]

true, garruk would just draw or reveal all the cards to get to the creature

[tardy echo]

Yeah there’s 5

[golden plover]

The mono color cycle where half suck

[sleek ferry]

? I loved the wandering emperor

And I loved Wrenn and seven as well as Wrenn realmbreaker

[tardy echo]

We should revisit ravnica and get a planeswalker for each guild word me @twilit canyon

[golden plover]

We should do war of the spark 2

Planeswalker in every pack bby!

[glad peak]

we should do war of the spark but there's actual stakes

[sleek ferry]

Current Ajani is also kinda nice, too bad for 3 mana I kinda want to do more

[golden plover]

Wait actually that's a sick idea because I think Planeswalkers are the the only bonus sheet that we haven't done yet

[sleek ferry]

Elspeth on the other hand? She’s the bomb diggity

[glad peak]

have garruk come to the battle when he's bloodlusted for planeswalkers

[tardy echo]

We haven’t done a regular creature bonus sheet either I think

Have we?

[golden plover]

MOM had legends

[tardy echo]

And unless I’m forgetting one the artifact sheet was sort of fake

[golden plover]

But yeah I don't think there's been normal creatures

[tardy echo]

A lot of the cards just got old border no art changes didn’t they

Unless I’m combining 2 in my head

[sleek ferry]

BBW had schematics

[golden plover]

BRO's sheet was artifacts but they picked a bunch of lame ones lol

[tardy echo]

Weren’t the schematics part of the retro artifact sheet

And they just made the actual really old ones schematics

[sleek ferry]

Also BBW had the most serials ever printed

(All of them were artifacts)

[tardy echo]

bbw is crazy btw

[sleek ferry]

How, it standards for brothers war

[tardy echo]

bbrothers war

One b for each brother

[sleek ferry]

The 2nd b is because there’s 2 of them

[golden plover]

The set code was BRO tho

[tardy echo]

Some of the funniest set codes in a row btw

mom bro dom

One was also slightly comedic

[golden plover]

We need Defend the Aged Darkness or something to get DAD

[sleek ferry]

Who is dom and who are his bros and his mom

[golden plover]

And we can get Secrets In Simic for SIS

[tardy echo]

The anti Phyrexia block will be setcodes sis sub dad two

[golden plover]

Secrets in Simic
Defend the Aged Darkness
Subterranean Ixalan Again
There Will Be One

[sleek ferry]

What phyrexians?

[tardy echo]

Subterranean Ixalan (S word)

[golden plover]

Nah Dom is just from Dominaria

[sleek ferry]

Isn’t only gix alive?

[golden plover]

They can do SUBterranean

[tardy echo]

Didn’t gix die

[sleek ferry]

Sheoldred def died

[golden plover]

Gix has been hella dead for like 500 years

[sleek ferry]

As did Elesh Norn

[tardy echo]

Urabrask survived

Well asterisk

[golden plover]

Technically urabrask and Vorinclex weren't killed on screen

[tardy echo]

Urabrask got drawn and quartered and never canonically died so if they ever need him to come back for some reason

[golden plover]

But Vorinclex isn't really a leader type

[sleek ferry]

Vorinclex survived because after Kaya solod him he ran like a bitch

[tardy echo]

Vorinclex lowk got skill diffed so hard by Kaya that he probably bled to death offscreen

[golden plover]

Should've kept Jinn alive but he got killed by literally a nameless soldier

[sleek ferry]

Kaya was also just completely OP lol

I’m shocked we didn’t make Kaya the new main character

And went back to Jace

[tardy echo]

Kaya is prob up there as the most successful pw in the story

[golden plover]

Kaya is busted AF so they forget to use her

She's also not a boring white guy

Hell, even Chandra is white half the time

[tardy echo]

They choose to have her in conveniently inconvenient places because of how broken she is

She gets assigned to stupid subplots more often because of it

Imagine if kaya got compleated btw

Phyrexia would’ve won

[golden plover]

It is crazy that Chandra's dad was the only white person on Avishkar so they didn't have to retcon how she's white lol

[tardy echo]

Imagine if instead of the list of jobbers who actually got compleated they got like

[sleek ferry]

Kaya and TWE are the most broken planeswalkers

[golden plover]

But on the topic of Kaya her home plane is cool as shit and we're never gonna see it

[sleek ferry]

Especially now that that Teferi is in Hawaii chilling

[tardy echo]

Liliana kaya emperor

War is over immediately

And/or teferi

[golden plover]

Bolas broke DESTROYED her home plane

To the point that ghosts constantly rain down from the sky

And if you look at the sky too long you go crazy

[sleek ferry]

What is Liliana up to now btw

[golden plover]

Teaching on Archavios

She's literally super relevant to the main plot rn

[sleek ferry]

Also, how will she react once Jace brings Nicol Bolas back, who does she go after

[tardy echo]

Idk why we didn’t get any cards with her in them in sos

It felt like she would’ve been much more central to the cards substories

[golden plover]

You would think

[tardy echo]

She puts on the chain veil again out of pure rage and one shots both of them

[golden plover]

But even Ajani, who is a MAIN character of the story this set, is on like 3 cards?

[tardy echo]

Crisis averted

[sleek ferry]

Isn’t the main character technically tam

Or is her name yam

[tardy echo]

Still thinking abt this btw it’s crazy how u could predict which pws got compleated because they were the most bitchmade ones and then Jace

[golden plover]

Yeah but ajani was big important

[sleek ferry]

Ajani is just third wheeling

[tardy echo]

Like wotc knew there was no suspension of disbelief strong enough for kaya or emperor to be compleated and not have the entire universe die

[sleek ferry]

“God I hope Jace will love me after this”

That’s Ajani

[tardy echo]

How many other pws could’ve solo’d if they got compleated

Jaya if she was still alive probably

[sleek ferry]

Jaya is a fraud

If she wasn’t, she wouldn’t have died

Word to the other fraud, urza

[tardy echo]

Idk bro for being 80 years old jaya was pretty lit

[copper pecan]

SIS already exists

it's the bonus sheet for shadows over innistrad remastered

[tardy echo]

I think compleated tyvar could probably have solo’d also

He’s pretty broken

[copper pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/948945461597831218/1492242165307281468/image0.jpg?ex=69da9e50&is=69d94cd0&hm=07ca19f40b842596744f47cd791e3a3fe5d7b9d2db0c99996368cd462517c5e7

looks like we're getting a dwarf fortress secret lair

copyright info at the bottom says bay12 games and they made dwarf fortress and almost nothing else

[golden plover]

@tardy echo I actually double checked your thing about 5c commanders and this is the only set in all of 2025-present besides Aetherdrift not to have one

[tardy echo]

Does aetherspark not count as 5c

[golden plover]

It's colorless

It also can't be your commander

[tardy echo]

I thought it added wubrg oops it’s nonspecific symbols

[sleek ferry]

Isn’t tyvar’s biggest accomplishment killing tibalt, who himself was just a fraud

[tardy echo]

Tyvar also lowkey solo’d duskmourn

But he beat tibalt up so hard that tibalt didn’t even get a card in one LMAO

[golden plover]

If you include 2024: only MKM, OTJ, and BLB don't have a wubrg commander

So out of the past 3 years: Only 5 sets don't have a wubrg commander

[tardy echo]

Also for as nothingburger as tibalt was he did kill a god in kaldheim didnt he

Obv kaya solos him but he is pretty accomplished for as recent of a character as he is

[golden plover]

Didn't he not even kill Valki

I thought he just froze him in ice

Yeah he didn't even kill Valki

Valki is currently alive

[tardy echo]

Ah I thought he actually killed valki

[golden plover]

Nah just trapped him in Narfi's Realm

[tardy echo]

Regardless 1v1ing a compleated pw so hard that he gets deleted out of the set is pretty impressive but most of tyvar powerscaling is from duskmourn

[golden plover]

So next time we go to Kaldheim we can get real Valki

[tardy echo]

God I need another kaldheim set

[glad peak]

for the real valki make it so the front is the same as the tibalt one but the back side is different

[tardy echo]

That would be v funny

[golden plover]

Okay that'd be really funny

[tardy echo]

Wasn’t the front side of valki like v bad though

[[valki]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/khm/114/valki-god-of-lies-tibalt-cosmic-impostor

Valki, God of Lies <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — God
When Valki enters, each opponent reveals their hand. For each opponent, exile a creature card they revealed this way until Valki leaves the battlefield.
: Choose a creature card exiled with Valki with mana value X. Valki becomes a copy of that card.
2/1

Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor
Legendary Planeswalker — Tibalt
As Tibalt enters, you get an emblem with "You may play cards exiled with Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast those spells."
+2: Exile the top card of each player's library.
−3: Exile target artifact or creature.
−8: Exile all graveyards. Add .
Loyalty: 5

[golden plover]

The front side of Valki has seen legacy play prior lol

[tardy echo]

Ah yeah

[golden plover]

Only because your opponent puts their Lurrus in their hand and it's your lurrus now

[tardy echo]

I forgot what it said idk why I thought it did something a lot worse

I only ever saw the other side though

[glad peak]

the front side is pretty good

[tardy echo]

I’ve always wondered does the tibalt emblem let you play whatever valki exiles

[glad peak]

the back side, if you can get it for 3 mana, is busted

[tardy echo]

Or does it not count as the same card

I assume not bc emblem is the specific name

[golden plover]

Wait even better idea next time we go to Kaldheim:

Ashiok is pretending to be Valki this time

[tardy echo]

How often does ashiok do that though

[golden plover]

Front side is "Valki, for Real This Time" and back is Ashiok

Ashiok has done it a couple times

[tardy echo]

An even funnier one would be front side ashiok backside is valki pretending to be ashiok

I would’ve said tibalt but he died so

[subtle sierra]

Jace from otj should have been a two sided walker with ashiok and jace

[golden plover]

I just like the idea that every time we go to Kaldheim its some Scooby Doo shit with someone else pretending to be Ashiok

[subtle sierra]

Well jace already did that so it even adds to it

[golden plover]

Nah Jace can be Valki, Guys We Swear This One is Real

[tardy echo]

Wait I actually never asked

Is the otj Jace actually Jace or is it ashiok

Who’s pretending to be who because both are semi habitual cosplayers

[golden plover]

It's Jace

[tardy echo]

[golden plover]

He was pretending to be Ashiok for some reason

[tardy echo]

Can we start getting oko pretending to be other people

Oko pretending to be Jace pretending to be ashiok pretending to be tibalt pretending to be valki

[golden plover]

Oko can be Valki, Guys We Swear We Won't Do it A Fourth Time

[subtle sierra]

What if we made 3 of the same valki front face and there's three different cards with 3 diff backs

[tardy echo]

Finally the first ever 6 sided card

[tardy echo]

This would unironically probably be in an unset

askurza.com to find out which backside you get

[subtle sierra]

No just your opponent can't check until it actually transforms

[tardy echo]

Also after doing some light research does narset ever actually do anything in the story

[subtle sierra]

Or is cast as that face

[tardy echo]

Like she no diffs sarkhan but he’s a fraud

Aside from that she just sort of says stuff and does politics no??

[golden plover]

Yeah she used to do stuff

[tardy echo]

Like she’s present for war but does she… do anything?

[golden plover]

But then they bullied her for being autistic

So now she doesn't do anything

And is still bullied for being autistic

Crazy that the first autistic character spends half her storylines getting shat on because of it. Very cool representation WoTC

[knotty ferry]

I didn't know mtg had lore this crazy

[golden plover]

Also Saheeli kinda stole her whole vibe later

Autistic red/blue aligned Planeswalker

[tardy echo]

And just like narset she’s a huge jobber who was always hated whenever she was a playable card

[golden plover]

She literally took her whole drip

[tardy echo]

I’m just trying to think of how many planeswalkers are so broken they bench them on purpose

[golden plover]

Except she does it better because she gets to be on the pride cards

[tardy echo]

And that’s why I was gonna say narset but she’s just benched for the love of the game

Sorin I guess

[golden plover]

Sorin gets benched because they don't wanna let him be happy

[tardy echo]

Bro despawns for 5 years at a time and comes back whenever a set has vampires

[tardy echo]

Can u blame him he’s a huge asshole

[golden plover]

And now he's not fighting Nahiri anymore so he's lame

[tardy echo]

It’s crazy nahiri got a happy ending and he didn’t though

[golden plover]

Also, I'll still die on the hill that Nahiri was kinda right for at least starting the beef

[tardy echo]

Nahiri was right for starting the beef but very intentionally atomized a plane for it

[golden plover]

If my ex situationship nukes my country because he was too busy playing with his imaginary daughter I'd also kill his family

[tardy echo]

Now imagine if sorin went back to zendikar and pulled emrakul from out of the moon all the way back there

Nahiri would probably phase innistrad out of the multiverse as revenge

[golden plover]

I mean, it's very much a plot point that the Eldrazi nuked Bala Ged first

[glad peak]

damn imagine playing with your imaginary daughter instead of taking care of your actual daughter

[golden plover]

Although Bala Ged is fixed now?

[tardy echo]

I thought the eldrazi sort of just pulled up on zendikar

[glad peak]

nah the eldrazi were initially sent there

[tardy echo]

Well not like it was out of nowhere but like sorin wasn’t intentionally summoning them through the great beyond

Was he??

[golden plover]

They were gonna have to be sent somewhere

Sorin didn't send them there

[glad peak]

ugin sent them because nahiri suggested it

[golden plover]

But Ugin kinda noped out of it and Sorin was the only one who could control where else they'd go

[glad peak]

huh i thought ugin was the one who sent them and after nahiri sealed them he added another layer

[tardy echo]

I thought the nahiri beef with sorin was because he locked her in a vault for 100 years or something when she asked for help with the eldrazi (which is really funny)

And tbf that is definitely worth starting beef over

[golden plover]

That too

The Nahiri Sorin beef goes way back

[glad peak]

the beef started when sorin didn't wanna help her because he's a family man now

[tardy echo]

But I just think that trying to level the entire plane out of the multiverse for that is

Disproportionate

[glad peak]

wars have started for less

[tardy echo]

Nicol bolas started a war for fun!!

[golden plover]

I mean, she only killed his family at first

Then he left zendikar eat shit and so then she let innistrad eat shit

[tardy echo]

There’s a difference between let zendikar eat shit and directly called emrakul into innistrad

[golden plover]

Yeah she definitely shouldn't have done that but free my girl she's just got PTSD and bad cards

[tardy echo]

ESPECIALLY when it’s emrakul and not jobilek or ulagetsmogged

[golden plover]

I'm also mad that they fucked her up in ONE

They did this cool story thing for a bit where she was able to control the phyresis because it's metal related

And she nuked the phyrexian arena

Then... She randomly got compleated

[twilit canyon]

offscreened

by all means she's been off screened three times

our resident jobber

[tardy echo]

Tbf I’m p sure it was more of like a

Slowing down the phyresis thing than a completely control it

Because otherwise she would potentially be able to reverse it/no diff the entire army no??

[twilit canyon]

i do agree she could have had a real cool moment w that

as she slowly loses control of the phyresis as she's pushed due to fighting

[tardy echo]

The real shame that they offscreened was vraska

Jace just pulls up and she’s already gone

Actual real question btw does vraska ever even do magic or is she literally just a gorgon

[golden plover]

Yeah the decided she was only able to slow it down but her powers totally should've allowed her to control it

[twilit canyon]

i think she has minor control of green and black mana but most of her shit is just

she is a gorgon

[tardy echo]

Ok but that would be a little broken

[golden plover]

Also, her epilogue in WAR mentions how she literally ripped the remaining metal out of her body with her magic

[golden plover]

Nahiri is an oldwalker, they're stupid broken

She gets nerfed a lot because oldwalkers aren't interesting for the story

[twilit canyon]

even post-nerf yeah they were still quite strong

[golden plover]

Sorin and Liliana are also oldwalkers

[tardy echo]

There’s a diff between old walker broken and “this character subverts the entire plotline threatening the world” broken

[twilit canyon]

but like yea idt she could have realistically stopped all of phyrexia's compleation

[golden plover]

I mean, presumably Nahiri couldn't fully control the phyrexian army

[tardy echo]

If everyone can just go hang out with nahiri and be immune to phyresis she would’ve gotten killed offscreen much more unceremoniously

[golden plover]

It would've just been cool if she could've powered herself up by using the metal

[tardy echo]

Not even that

But it’s like an ashiok thing where like u sort of have to justify why this character can’t just pull up and one shot a praetor for funsies

[golden plover]

Actually you know who got the biggest nerf because her powers are TURBO broken?

[tardy echo]

Because otherwise there’s no plot

[twilit canyon]

yeah

[golden plover]

Aminatou

[twilit canyon]

more or less

[golden plover]

Aminatou straight up controls probability and outcomes and can see future timelines

[tardy echo]

And tbf I think they justified it with ashiok much more reasonably

[twilit canyon]

i dont disagree that nahiri was done dirty as a whole but like also i do think ur overestimating her and wotc's decision making

[golden plover]

She sparked because she saw it'd happen

[tardy echo]

But like if nahiri having control over phyresis makes Phyrexia a nonthreat

[golden plover]

And now when she came back in Duskmorn she was desparked (that shouldn't be possible) and can only see like 1-2 outcomes

Tbf full power aminatou is incredibly boring

But it was WILD how much they had to reign her in from her original powerset

[tardy echo]

They should bring back freyalise

[twilit canyon]

they should bring back serra too while we are at it

[golden plover]

Actually what happened to Estrid

[tardy echo]

And just let her nodiff whatever is going on at any specific time

[golden plover]

WHAT HAPPENED TO KASMINA???

[tardy echo]

Exactly

[golden plover]

We just got a set kasmina should've been in

[tardy echo]

Tbf this one is in character

[twilit canyon]

kasmina plotting for fucking nothing forever

[tardy echo]

Kasmina shows up whenever she feels like at the strangest moments

The actual funniest outcome is kasmina pulls up in a ub set

[golden plover]

I love how they first introduced Kasmina and went "she's making like an evil gatewatch and forcing students to spark"

And then she... Didn't do that on Strixhaven and vanished

[tardy echo]

Kasmina in reality fracture except she’s mono white and the most boring card ever and now she only shows up at the most perfectly predictable times to do nothing unexpected but simultaneously not progress the plot forward whatsoever

And she’s a recurring plot character for the rest of history

[past socket]

Wizards always arrive exactly when they are meant to ig

[tardy echo]

They did this with dihada too btw

[golden plover]

Oh there's also Calix

[tardy echo]

He only existed for one purpose

[golden plover]

Who was supposed to be hunting down Elspeth and Niko

And he's... Something

[tardy echo]

U can also handwave him and say that he died because all the gods on theros were compleated

That’s pretty easy

[golden plover]

He got a card in aftermath for some reason

[tardy echo]

Wait what

[golden plover]

They explicitly stated he's still alive

[tardy echo]

[twilit canyon]

yeah hes alive somehow

and he was a decently threatening card for a lil bit ig

[tardy echo]

Also really unrelated question but

How exactly does kozilek die

[twilit canyon]

iunno

he just decided to

[tardy echo]

Ulamog gets beat up on screen but kozilek sort of just despawns and then emrakul shows up

[twilit canyon]

im partial to think that kozilek just twisted reality to let them think they won and fucked off

[tardy echo]

I guess they realized it was hard to actually explain how you defeat a guy who can just make anything attacking him stop existing

[twilit canyon]

i think its just a case that wotc really cant handle or explain eldritch properties of things well when you get to a massive scale

especially when its also like

[tardy echo]

I like how they actually just don’t let kozilek do anything because he’s probably the most broken one in theory

[twilit canyon]

trying ot depict things in art

i love the eldrazi yet i hate the eldrazi

because i really am rarely satisfied with their artistic depictions

from their broods to their abilities and such

[tardy echo]

Ulamog gets to eat stuff emrakul gets to turn the entire plane of innistrad insane but kozilek just walks around for a little bit we see like one card where he’s actually killing someone and then he despawns

[twilit canyon]

and i dont blame the artists

they get fire fucking art all the time

it just

doesnt feel like it actually represents how they would be given the description of their powers

[tardy echo]

I think their issue is that they aren’t allowed to have too many cards where the titans are being broken because eventually the titans have to actually lose

I think if they were constrained to a single plane where they just hung out free roaming it would be easier to show them actually doing stuff but like

If we saw ulamog completely consuming an entire plane that would be pretty hard to incorporate as a story beat

[twilit canyon]

at least one that'd be satisfying yeah

i do think a set based around an apocalyptic setting due to an eldrazi manifesting would be cool

ie the whole set and story just leads to that bitter end

[tardy echo]

What-if sets would be cool

[twilit canyon]

but that'd require a good writing team

[tardy echo]

What-if Phyrexia won etc

But I think from a meta perspective they also don’t want to lean to hard into stuff like that

They tend to give antagonists and their related cards very annoying and hateful effects so sets centering around them would just be very salty

Imagine an entire set of annihilators and scion spawners

[twilit canyon]

core mechanic of the set: annihilator

even the 1 drops annihilate

coinflip simulator

[tardy echo]

I’m v hype for the emrakul rerun though

Emrakul Liliana grudge match of the century

[glad peak]

Grudge match but only 1 side of that match is salty at the other

[tardy echo]

Well emrakul isn’t salty at anyone

I just wanna see Lilliana do stuff again she’s so cool

[knotty ferry]

Holy fuck, finding a standard event near me is so hard

All these mfs playing modern and commander

Next one is in may

Actually insane

[twilit canyon]

get some psychic frogs and force of negations and lock in on modern

no actually tho... i dont think it'd be that bad

[[$psychic frog]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/199/psychic-frog

Prices for Psychic Frog

Modern Horizons 3 Promos

$5.17 • €7.24

Modern Horizons 3 Promos

$10.38 • €12.41

Modern Horizons 3

$4.56 • €6.97 • 2.27 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$16.07 • €17.56 • 2.41 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$8.52 • €11.51 • 2.94 TIX

[twilit canyon]

thats not bad at all wow

[tardy echo]

Also wait another lore question

[twilit canyon]

the goat's kinda cheap...

[tardy echo]

How does ugin spawn back in on tarkir I thought he was trapped in meditationland forever

[twilit canyon]

gotta get store champ prints

[tardy echo]

How much is fon?

I thought it was a bit pricey

[[$ force of negation]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/50/force-of-negation

Prices for Force of Negation

Avatar: The Last Airbender Eternal

$40.47 • €39.04 • 15.60 TIX

Final Fantasy Regional Promos

$1,425.68 • €915.46

Magic Online Promos

28.68 TIX

Magic Online Promos

12.20 TIX

Double Masters 2022

$45.63 • €44.56 • 15.01 TIX

Double Masters 2022

$53.75 • €52.26

Double Masters 2022

$65.67

Modern Horizons 1 Timeshifts

$100.49 • €101.02

Modern Horizons

$46.17 • €45.43 • 11.23 TIX

[tardy echo]

Unserious number

Weebs will buy anything

[knotty ferry]

id be open to playing modern but id need something cheap lol

i guess there are some budget decks on mtggoldfish

[twilit canyon]

you got ahold of dimir cards no?

[knotty ferry]

yeah

are any usable in modern?

[twilit canyon]

it really wouldnt be too bad to start off with frogs and counterspells and make something out of it for now

of course, getting some actually real removal and shit too

spell snares, spell pierce
both super useable

counterspell proper is good

psychic frog can carry a mediocre list until it becomes good

fatal push pick ups...

[knotty ferry]

[twilit canyon]

no yeah more i think here, the more it seems possible

[twilit canyon]

like 70% is the lands

[tardy echo]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-dimir-midrange#paper

[twilit canyon]

[[$polluted delta]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/224/polluted-delta

Prices for Polluted Delta

Modern Horizons 3 Promos

$24.68 • €20.63

Modern Horizons 3

$19.25 • €16.88 • 2.07 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$33.47 • €30.29 • 2.01 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$28.24 • €26.98 • 1.85 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$23.05 • €18.69 • 1.95 TIX

Zendikar Rising Expeditions

$34.41 • €31.87 • 12.77 TIX

Zendikar Expeditions

$286.81 • €185.42 • 5.78 TIX

Khans of Tarkir

$19.95 • €16.04 • 1.82 TIX

Judge Gift Cards 2009

$250.69 • €167.62

[tardy echo]

• strand and delta saves $200

[twilit canyon]

lmfao

fetches are goated but you dont need em instantly

[knotty ferry]

ok i just want yall to know i just dropped a few benjamins on a deck, not like i cant afford another, but i'm obviously not very inclined to spend a lot on an entirely different format

[twilit canyon]

can you post your current standard list that you own irl

[knotty ferry]

gimme a sec, ill just post all the cards i own