couldnt
#Magic the Gathering
twilit canyon
figure out that they have 0, you have an on-board niv with an ancestral recall in hand
sudden lava
huh, || she didnt even use Josh's blank check!||
zinc shard
idk if you actually control a Niv or if thats just supposed to represent the player
golden plover
I have no clue what that niv does
zinc shard
was I intending to draft a Muldrotha deck? no
am I complaining? absolutely not
twilit canyon
i just played a round of rhinos vs affinity on arena
shit was crazy
it was like modern
past socket
Is Ob Nixilis short for Obert Nixilis
rigid scarab
Is Ob Nixilis short for Obert Nixilis
No sir
trail anvil
||idk you say that but exsanguinate out of nowhere was hilarious to me, she flew completely under the radar||
trail anvil
huh, || she didnt even use Josh's blank check!||
||didn't need to lol||
rigid scarab
||idk you say that but exsanguinate out of nowhere was hilarious to me, she flew...
||Ig my thing was that there wasn't much of a playaround. Like you don't look at the big stompy hydra board and think to yourself to play around exsanguinate||
trail anvil
||skill issue tbh||
rigid scarab
||skill issue tbh||
||But yeah Jimmy's turn 4 was absolutely atrocious lol||
trail anvil
||was that the one he was mana screwed on||
rigid scarab
||Yeah||
||Drew like 5 cards, no land drop, also discarded his only land last turn. Offered someone a blank check favour to let combat damage through for 2 draws, no land drop. Gave someone 2 rhystic draws so he could draw 1, no land drop.||
trail anvil
||at least the rhystic draws didn't mean as much lol||
ornate cedar
Do you keep all the cards you pull in the draft?
golden plover
Yeah
golden plover
About an hour or so
Can go longer into slower matchups and if you do well
But I drafted aggro, it was a 45 minute 5-3 for me
ornate cedar
Oh hell yeah, I'll have to try it out some evening
zinc shard
Hit the jackpot
last glen
I wish Needletooth Pack was more aggressively costed
But maybe it's too good at 4 mana
twilit canyon
[[needletooth pack]]
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zinc shard
Hit the jackpot
7-2 Babyyyyyy
one loss was me getting mana flooded even with Phyrexian Arena on board
it curves well with [[Cackling Prowler]]
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Creature — Hyena Rogue
Ward 
(Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Morbid — At the beginning of your end step, if a creature died this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.
4/3
past socket
At some point wanna mess with throwing all the dragons at people, any recommendations?
rigid scarab
At some point wanna mess with throwing all the dragons at people, any recommenda...
I'm guessing you wanna run Ur Dragon
copper pecan
ur dragon is by far the best commander for doing that, yeah
rigid scarab
Loads of dragons are pretty pricy mana-wise
Although I will say Ur Dragon is a very basic commander
2nd most played of all time
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trail anvil
proliferate is an extremely flexible mechanic and she's 4 colors
rigid scarab
The reason why I bring it up is
Everyone knows ur dragon
Everyone knows what to expect from ur dragon
And usually people tend to target ur dragon
past socket
Honestly it’s me just finding a lot of dragon cards so goddamn cool aesthetically
trail anvil
yeah understandable lol
there are some dragon commanders that will get you targeted less than ur dragon if you want that, but you wouldn't have access to as many colors
rigid scarab
If you want something that gets you targeted slightly less
And gives you access to just as many colours
With the same gameplan of "Play dragons"
[[Tiamat]]
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past socket
The primordial goddess
And honestly searching a bunch of fuck off power dragons has gotta be such a power move at the table
And hey playing all the colours is gonna require plenty of ramp and plenty of advantage
Though all in all it’s more about messing with other tribal strats other than Demon so Lord of Change doesn’t keep staring into my soul when I play it
rigid scarab
I can present
Probably one of my favourite decks
That's all about kindred synergies
past socket
I can present
If you’d like to, always curious as the still dumb-dumb at Magic I am lol
rigid scarab
If you’d like to, always curious as the still dumb-dumb at Magic I am lol
Ok so
It's ur dragon
But instead of dragons
It's every single kindred synergy
past socket
Oh
rigid scarab
So the main creatures of this deck are changelings
past socket
And ising Changelings to take advantage of certain Kindred synergies
rigid scarab
So that changeling?
It gets the cost reduction from ur dragon
It also triggers [[Risen Reef]]
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rigid scarab
You can tap it for [[Azami]]
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rigid scarab
[[Knight Exemplar]] gives them indestructible
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rigid scarab
Then dying triggers [[Atla Palani]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Shaman
, 
: Create a 0/1 green Egg creature token with defender.
Whenever an Egg you control dies, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card. Put that card onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
2/3
rigid scarab
It's the ultimate deck that makes the opponents go "Oh my god of course"
past socket
Since Changeling creatures can be any creature type?
rigid scarab
They're every creature type yeah
past socket
I’m just unsure how Changeling works with cards like that so hey was worth bringing up Gishath, Sun’s Avatar
gritty nest
Planeswalkers are now modified permanents according to the new CR update
golden plover
Do we have a flash variant of [[Ravenous Chupacabra]]?
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golden plover
Demons cannot play into burn at all, huh
Neither build
RIP to all those wildcards
Can't even use annex to stabilize against them because they'll ping their own screaming Nemesis
ornate cedar
Got the Foundations starter set and I’m gonna sign up for next week’s Friday night Magic at my LGS
Excited!
trail anvil
opponent uses inquisition of kozilek to snipe my sink into stupor since it's my third land
I mana drain their deep-cavern bat in response
they instantly scoop
yeah that's brawl alright
trail anvil
Demons cannot play into burn at all, huh
is there nothing in the sideboard that helps?
golden plover
is there nothing in the sideboard that helps?
All I can think of is siding in more stuff to kill nemesis on sight
But if he lands you lose
copper pecan
yeah you need to kill nemesis immediately or you lose
golden plover
Even if you do, you might lose to them getting enough damage in and annex
You don't wanna side in stuff like negate, since that's bad tempo trades
I think it's just a losing MU
golden plover
So Legacy Tron gets to be on 4 Tron lands now
People are remembering that [[Urza's Workshop]] is a card
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Land — Urza's
: Add 
.
Metalcraft — : Add for each Urza's land you control. Activate only if you control three or more artifacts.
Urza eventually came to understand Tocasia's lessons on clarity of purpose. Perfection became his goal, and all other matters fell away in its pursuit.
golden plover
Wait actually this doesn't even assemble Tron
It just plays Saga, Tower, and Workshop
Oh wait yes it does
[[Planar Nexus]] is full Tron
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Land
Planar Nexus is every nonbasic land type. (Nonbasic land types include Cave, Desert, Gate, Lair, Locus, Mine, Power-Plant, Sphere, Tower, and Urza's.)
: Add .
, : Add one mana of any color.
The violence of the Conflux gave way to rebirth.
twilit canyon
why is forge combo on tower at all?
what the fuck
are they dumb
theres no reason to not play city of traitors here
this leaves nexus and the 1 of blast zone as the only dud lands
4 saga, 4 workshop, 4 tomb, 4 traitors, 1 blast zone minimizes all dud lands as best as u can and leaves the combo in-tact
golden plover
Tower does turn into Tron with Nexus
It's the only of the base tron lands that taps for 3 and not 2
twilit canyon
yeah thats not ideal
cus if u dont enable tron its strictly worse
and nexus is also would be the odd man out being the only land that doesnt produce at least 2 mana
atomic harness
i just played a round of rhinos vs affinity on arena
Holy what format
twilit canyon
historic
polar lake
waiting for wotc to print a 1UG creature or some shit to break standard nadu style, be a cool card in pio, and be a ok card in modern
last glen
I love rushing down WU control decks
lost the first game, still won the set
Also beat a Rakdos Sac deck tonight too
polar lake
nice what did u play
past socket
Rushdown…would id be something Gruul?
Because I recognise Gruul as the lowkey genius strategy it is with the ultimate form of removal being player removal
last glen
Gruul Dinosaurs
also I U=Blue is still wack
still wonder if I should fiddle with my sideboard
or if I'm overreacting to too small a sample size
glad peak
True, should be L instead
trail anvil
apparently wizards r&d used "L" for land
I don't think there's much difference between L and U considering neither of them are the first letter like in a traditional acronym
copper pecan
[[boulder jockey]]
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Creature — Goblin
(
is a land drop. You may give up one potential land drop this turn to pay for .)
Whenever Boulder Jockey attacks, you may pay . If you do, create a 3/3 colorless Construct artifact creature token named Boulder that's tapped and attacking. Sacrifice that token at the beginning of the next end step.
4/4
copper pecan
also I U=Blue is still wack
it used to be that b=blue and k=black
gritty nest
Thoughts on the Marvel Secret Lair situation?
as in the turbo sell out and QC issues
ornate cedar
Opened the starter collection and I’m genuinely impressed, although it ironically feels like a commander product with all the singletons lol
Holding so many foils and mythics from one product makes me buzz with excitement lol
I kind of hope this product does well so they make more like it down the road, maybe with a couple more playsets though if they want this to be a standard product
Foil Sol Ring is nice but also makes me think this is a pseudo-Commander product
glad peak
Probably
But they know starting players don’t care about multiples of cards so they hit a good middle ground with this one
zinc shard
Thoughts on the Marvel Secret Lair situation?
Its somethin they gotta fix for sure
ornate cedar
But they know starting players don’t care about multiples of cards so they hit a...
That is fair as well. I just wish there were more playsets of some of the commons :< then again that’s how they’ll get players to buy more packs lol
At this point at least I think I have enough cards for a cube if I can make some friends IRL lol
I also pulled that Seven Sires guy
From one of the three included play boosters
This other card Blasphemous Edict is pretty cool too, gonna go hard in commander for sure
golden plover
Honestly it's already showing that this card is really good in constructed formats too
ornate cedar
Honestly it's already showing that this card is really good in constructed forma...
Which one?
copper pecan
i wouldn't be surprised if sire also sees play in standard
it's a huge bungus with a lot of effects and has plenty of time to show up
golden plover
I think it'll have to wait for Atraxa to rotate tho
Atraxa is a better keyword soup reanimation target
copper pecan
yeah probably
trail anvil
I feel like "a lot of effects" doesn't do "+5 instantly" justice
stabilizing with lifelink, flying and vigilance really is crazy though
trail anvil
sire does beat her in combat 
golden plover
Honestly debating [[Crystal Barricade]] in the side to deal with Burn
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golden plover
Actually wait that makes Nemesis not work
glad peak
Yeah barricade looks good vs modern burn (yes even with costing 2 mana it forces them to have a ton of things)
golden plover
Standard burn only runs 1 spell that can even do 4 damage, so they'd have to pay 5 to kill it
I think Barricade is gonna be a sleeper card
sleek ferry
That standard burn goes craaaaaaazy
twilit canyon
and if u mean the gruul prowess list this doesnt stop them from monstrous rage
sleek ferry
I’m assuming he means the boros list
twilit canyon
which shouldnt be on burn at all
some number of boros charm for your mice and auras?
sure
boltwave is a terrible card outside of the context of specifically burn
also this doesnt stop boltwave
sleek ferry
Bolt wave, boros charm, lightning helix, what else we got
twilit canyon
lightning strike
and burst lightning
aka unviable
i dont even think bolt proper gets you there
you are missing a ton of 1 mana deal 3s
no rift, no chain, no skewer
twilit canyon
it isbt
*isnt
that list is super ass
ive seen it its just strictly worse than gruul or mice
golden plover
I mean, it's all hasty prowess 1-2 drops and burn spells
It's solid
And Nemesis kills Dimir and hurts Golgari
pulsar talon
But nemeses flag is, right?
ornate cedar
Played some Standard Ranked and I already feel like I’m lost in the new meta lol
Manifest Dread deck is fun but it’s pretty fragile against most of the decks I’m facing. I need to find better removal
Or maybe a board wipe
In general is it a good idea to have different color decks to complete the different dailies?
I was thinking of upgrading the precon decks from foundations that they gave us just for those tasks
last glen
You can do some rerolling
But the daily system does encourage having different decks to hit all the colors
ornate cedar
And I like deck building so I don’t mind
But I don’t know how to make a decent Magic deck yet lol
So my mileage varies in terms of success lol
twilit canyon
you dont have to win for the daily play x cards in x color(s)
golden plover
nemesis is not a playable magic card
Every single red deck in the top 8 in worlds played Nemesis???
Nemesis is one of the most played cards in the format?
copper pecan
nemesis is great in standard
twilit canyon
nemesis was a meta call for worlds
it is not winning games. almost every single worlds testing team concluded the card was just there for tech match ups since gruul was going to be one of the most played decks in the format and it cant kill nemesis profitably
all other decks completely wreck the card
it really wasnt surprising that the red decks didnt end up winning worlds
past socket
Speaking of Gruul is Borborygmos, Enraged still Landfall but the land falls on you?
twilit canyon
wait lol i went to check and there was 2 red decks in top 8
and only 1 had nemesis
past socket
Still a meta call ig
twilit canyon
it was for the wider worlds
only a single nemesis converted to top 8
it didnt win it all
and its not surprising because practically no deck in standard cares
its exclusively good into the gruul mirrors becasue they cant profitably remove it with their current removal suite
gruul/red
boros actually has sheltered by ghosts and elspeth's smite to deal with the card without triggering it
golden plover
Worst case scenario nemesis is a 3 mana 3/3 haste unblockable
golden plover
The fuck? Emberheart is seeing play as a 2 mana 2/2 haste prowess
twilit canyon
your opponent will spend 3 mana on overlord and get ahead of you by miles
3 mana will be spent on caretaker's talent
3 mana can be spent on infinitely more powerful plays
golden plover
Caretakers loses to burn and gruul
twilit canyon
to gruul sure but burn is bad
definition of pure cope is trying to burn out when gruul and boros aggro exist and have actual real pieces
twilit canyon
The fuck? Emberheart is seeing play as a 2 mana 2/2 haste prowess
and emberheart is just not all that good too
its fine
good role player
golden plover
Both are in the top 10 red cards in standard rn
Both are seeing more play than lighting strike
golden plover
I dunno, I feel like emberheart and nemesis are pretty good cards
twilit canyon
like we see the demons deck and golgari and dimir dominate worlds
and the takeaway is that red has good cards
golden plover
The demons deck cannot play through burn
twilit canyon
when neither did super well in top cut cus all of the best players were watching and seeing
golden plover
Post foundations
past socket
Gruul do just be the biggest brain strategy
twilit canyon
"yeah thats gonna be played a lot but its gonna be super beatable"
past socket
Player removal best removal
golden plover
Nemesis connects and the demons deck loses
twilit canyon
you dont beat the demons deck
golden plover
They cannot annex
twilit canyon
in what way?
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twilit canyon
in what part does nemesis connecting matters
golden plover
Well not connect, but they play it on t4 and shock it
twilit canyon
a deck running annoint and hard removal
golden plover
GG guess I lost
twilit canyon
whats a red deck doing vs 6/6
so your nemesis was a 4 mana play
2 cards, 4 mana
golden plover
They can't answer my demon, but they've got me at that point
twilit canyon
the 6/6 cards are going to out-aggro a red deck
you do not ever wanna be doing the play you just mentioned. if thats where you are at, you have lost the game a while ago
golden plover
I dunno, I've played a lot of this matchup
And any time the burn deck gets nemesis off it's over
You cannot stabilize against burn because your Lifegain from annex is gone
twilit canyon
keep in mind too that the demons deck is not optimized
but point being, thanks to the fact that red is not able to beat a demon
golden plover
It's Javier's list I've been playing?
twilit canyon
annex is going to be draining life
yeah and javi and his team said
"we dont like our list"
ornate cedar
Hare Apparent is busted holy shit
Just played a mono-white deck that had 5 at least in the turns it played
It wouldn’t surprise me if someone made a deck full of just Hare Apparent lol
pulsar talon
What formats do yall usually play?
ornate cedar
Standard on Arena and Commander IRL
twilit canyon
What formats do yall usually play?
right now standard, alchemy, historic, timeless on arena
usually modern and legacy irl too
last glen
I play Pioneer on Arena
if I need to farm a last win I'll play monored Standard
but I suspect a better monored deck will demand more rares from me
tbh I lost like six games in a row before I got a win
It would have been faster to just play a Pioneer BO1 tbh lamo
clever sun
What formats do yall usually play?
Legacy and Vintage nowdays
I play Arena a fair bit for Timeless and Gladiator
ornate cedar
I spent hours playing Standard even after getting the dailies because I was just having so much fun
I think I may like MTG more than YGO. This seems like a game I can reeeeally get into
ornate cedar
yugioh mat and mtg cards
I do the same lol I have a DMG mat that I use for my desk
I have a Diabellstar mat for IRL games
last glen
Been using [[Etali's Blessing]] from my (digital) bulk for my mono red burn deck
and it's been doing well for me so far
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last glen
[[Etali's Favor]]
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twilit canyon
i'd recommend against it
its not a burn card
tho i'd recommend against burn to begin with
last glen
It's definitely a budget consideration
But it triggers heartfire mouse
and usually pulls a burn spell or a haste-r
twilit canyon
the problem is the worst-case scenario for the card
if you draw this with no creatures in play, it does nothing
aka in top decking, you fall behind too easily
trail anvil
or in a mid case scenario you try to attach this to a creature and it gets removed in response
twilit canyon
no thats a blowout
golden plover
It's definitely a budget consideration
But it triggers heartfire mouse
and usual...
Could run [[Monstorous Rage]] instead
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golden plover
Much cheaper card that does way more for you
last glen
Already maxed out on those
golden plover
Lists that need 8 have also been on [[Turn Inside Out]]
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trail anvil
no thats a blowout
yeah I should've said average situation, not mid case lol
last glen
man
Appraiser being banned gutted Discover 3
trail anvil
what?
twilit canyon
lol
this means that the only permanent in their deck has an activated ability
(probably 0 permanents besides lands)
last glen
for pioneer
should I main deck scorching dragonfire or hearse
gritty nest
so I picked up a [[Swiftblade Vindicator]] for my human tribal deck
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past socket
Finally playing a Commander that isn’t UB or Secret Lair for once, inspired by foray into mill with Mothman. [[The Mimeoplasm]]
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gritty nest
nice
i'm unsure if I want to cut Thalia's Lieutenant or Luminarch Aspirant for the new human
Mana foil
past socket
Wonder what the true depths of silliness are with Mimeoplasm
ornate cedar
Goddamn Hare Apparent is probably my least favorite card
I need to get more sweepers in my decks lol
ornate cedar
WotC wanted to give us a ton of good one drops with this set haha
It's very refreshing to see. Despite my feelings about Hare Apparent, I'm also glad that WotC revamped white with this set from what I can see.
From what I heard, white had been kind of forgotten in recent years
lusty trench
For like 2015-2018 there was a stretch where white was just kinda there
Really struggled to have an identity for itself because it's mechanics were just kinda unhelpful or uninteresting and didn't perform the usual game actions you want in order to win
golden plover
White has been very good for the past couple years
lusty trench
Recently they've gotten very good at identifying that
golden plover
But there was a while where the joke was white got no playable cards
Which means in like 2 years we'll probably see an insane amount of good mono-green stuff
(Although green is the color least represented in universes beyond so the fucking 50% change might actually make that not as likely)
lusty trench
White now has some insane options mainly in the form of token generation, efficient creatures and draw power from things they already do
ornate cedar
The mono-white cat deck looks fun
golden plover
I can't see green getting much good representation in the marvel or final fantasy sets
ornate cedar
I'm a sucker for tribal decks lol
golden plover
Although the joke rn is "Red is the worst color" which... Isn't even true in standard
lusty trench
I can't see green getting much good representation in the marvel or final fantas...
It's a very hard colour to work into more sci fi settings
ornate cedar
Although the joke rn is "Red is the worst color" which... Isn't even true in sta...
Yeah, isn't mono-Red still a good deck?
lusty trench
Like you have green traits you can follow but chances are the character has more of those to exhibit in other colours
ornate cedar
Even without Leyline?
lusty trench
I'm sure there is some red deck wins in standard right now
Even without the leyline yeah
golden plover
It's a very hard colour to work into more sci fi settings
Maybe like half the UB stuff shouldn't be sci-fi settings then
ornate cedar
Oh yeah, I technically play standard now since I play it on arena lol
golden plover
There's RDW, Gruul, and Boros
ornate cedar
What's RDW?
golden plover
All three are aggressive decks, but all three are different types of aggressive decks
lusty trench
Red deck wins
lusty trench
Mono red aggro usually
ornate cedar
Ah thanks
golden plover
It and Gruul are both kinda prowess aggro and Gruul seems to be the better of the two there
ornate cedar
Ah, I see, so Gruul = red + stompy critters, Boros = red + tokens
golden plover
And Boros is aggressive, but it's closer to regular burn
Less tokens, moreso access to a few white cards
ornate cedar
Like the sweepers?
golden plover
They're mostly running it for [[Lighting Helix]] and [[Boros Charm]]
golden plover
But it does give you a few better side board options
ornate cedar
Do you all typically play BO3 or BO1?
lusty trench
I keep forgetting those are both standard legal
ornate cedar
Especially now since it just got reprinted
Five years of Boros charm being legal lol
golden plover
Best of 3 is the better mode imo
lusty trench
BO3 is preferred due to how it minimises luck but BO1 is there for quick games
twilit canyon
keep in mind red decks are very harsh in bo3
only gruul and sometimes boros mice/auras are viable
ornate cedar
Makes sense. I think I'll also only play BO1 for now while I'm still getting my collection going
twilit canyon
required game knowledge is much steeper
ornate cedar
I don't even have enough cards for "good" decks lol
twilit canyon
and you are punished for bad sequencing and bad sideboarding more
ornate cedar
My best deck is the Manifest Dread Control deck, and that still has a winrate of about 53%
Related to that, is there a way to see a deck's stats like winrate, or is that required to be calculated manually?
twilit canyon
golden plover
I will say their in-game client is annoying as hell
Like 5 pop-ups you have to manually move around and adjust transparency and stuff for
zinc shard
New Secret Lair Precon
rigid scarab
A deck that can mechanically wins through 20 different methods
Interesting
But I'll be surprised if it's anything but turbo ass
golden plover
The art is cute, but yeah not ideal
rigid scarab
So it's gonna be
golden plover
Also, it's gonna sell out immediately and I'm gonna hate not buying it but imma not even get a chance
golden plover
The dog one is like $300+ on resell now and sold out nearly immediately
sudden lava
Surely one of the wincons is thassa's oracle
zinc shard
This is the perfect time to unban this number
zinc shard
im assuming its not gonna include the difficult wincons like [[Barren Glory]]
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golden plover
@lusty trench lmao they're gonna charge $150-$200 for this 5c precon with guildgates in the manabase because it's "thematic'
lusty trench
💀
rigid scarab
Approach of the Second Sun
Darksteel Reactor
Epic Struggle
Felidar Soverign
Halo Fountain
Happily Ever After
Helix Pinnacle
Jace
Thoracle
Mayael's Aria
Maze's End
Near-Death Experience
Revel in Riches
Simic Ascendancy
Triskadekaphile
Door to Nothingness
Are my predictions for wincon cards
Wait
There we go
Those are 16 in-card methods to win
1 method is commander damage
golden plover
Hell kite and Darksteel are both $15+
rigid scarab
1 method is reducing everyone to 0
golden plover
Would be hard to see both in there
rigid scarab
Wait I need to remove 1 more
Removed hellkite tyrant
1 method is everyone drawing an empty library
And 1 method is infect
Some I think are more likely to be in than others
Door to Nothingness I think is 100% in
rigid scarab
Felidar Soverign probably
Thoracle probably
If not Thoracle then Jace/Lab Man
Revel in Riches probably
I wonder what their infect card would be tho
Maze's End lets their manabase be bad
golden plover
I'd say Lab Man over Thoracle
Mazes End means they get to make the excuse there's no shocks because thematic
rigid scarab
Thoracle has iconic points
I would have added Barren Glory
But Barren Glory being in implies that MLD would be in there too
And we can't have that in our marketable secret lair precon
Especially since
The wincon of MLD would be for one specific card in your deck
And like cmon
golden plover
They're gonna throw awful wincons like [[Mortal Combat]], [[Near Death Experience]], and [[Simic Ascendency]] in there
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Enchantment
: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Simic Ascendancy has twenty or more growth counters on it, you win the game.
rigid scarab
Well
"I want a deck that can accomplish 20 wincons" isn't exactly brimming with potential
past socket
Now I’m reminded of that one fellow who made a deck entirely around winning with all the “you lose the game” cards
lusty trench
The dog one is like $300+ on resell now and sold out nearly immediately
Me who traded a dinosaur deck that was ass and lost all value when people got tired of dinosaurs immediately the next set
I also have two of the yoshimaru cause I got one as a gift for my partner
golden plover
Damn nice. The Yoshimaru is like one of the few cards I'd want from it but it was in the 50/50 bonus card slot and it's $50
glad peak
the list is probably dogshit but fully expect to get complaints that the deck is op from casuals because they have no interaction for the win conditions 
rigid scarab
the list is probably dogshit but fully expect to get complaints that the deck is...
They'll probably just win before the deck accomplishes any wincon tbh
Also just
Holy strawman
golden plover
the list is probably dogshit but fully expect to get complaints that the deck is...
I get told the coin flip one is too strong sometimes lol
Literally the only change I made was [[Frenetic Sliver]] cut for [[Frenetic Efreet]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Sliver
All Slivers have "
: If this permanent is on the battlefield, flip a coin. If you win the flip, exile this permanent and return it to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step. If you lose the flip, sacrifice it."
2/2
Creature — Efreet
Flying
: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, Frenetic Efreet phases out. If you lose the flip, sacrifice Frenetic Efreet. (While it's phased out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist. It phases in before you untap during your next untap step.)
2/1
rigid scarab
I get told the coin flip one is too strong sometimes lol
Strong for a precon maybe is what they were saying
golden plover
Nah half the time they don't realize it's a precon and get upset when Okaun one shots someone
glad peak
One guy here plays the coin flip precon with no alterations and isn’t really a good player
He gets complaints that the deck is cedh
rigid scarab
Nah half the time they don't realize it's a precon and get upset when Okaun one ...
I don't see how you can verify this
golden plover
What do you mean
With Okaun if his stats get past like 300/300 i just kinda assume they're dead to him (provided he's unblockable)
golden plover
I morseo mean people weren't aware it's literally a precon unless I say so
Not everyone is aware it was an option
rigid scarab
I'm seeing the "play removal" thing getting pushed a lot in the opposite direction
To the point where I'm seeing "Dies to Doom Blade" unironically being used
rigid scarab
I morseo mean people weren't aware it's literally a precon unless I say so
I mean I can even understand this
Your average joe probably wouldn't be aware of a precon unless it's on store shelves
glad peak
We should bring back nadu, dies to doom blade 
golden plover
I mean I can even understand this
Your average joe probably wouldn't be aware o...
Oh for sure, but people still act like the deck is crazy strong
Both commanders are 5 mana and require you being lucky
It's not that good
lusty trench
To say it’s a precon kinda misrepresents what the deck is to most players
lusty trench
Like yeah it technically is a precon but with a lot more value focus and powerful cards
lusty trench
With Okaun if his stats get past like 300/300 i just kinda assume they're dead t...
There’s also this, you have to assume okaun is a threat every time he comes out
lusty trench
It’s just a deck that casual players aren’t prepared for, it’s a removal check that can kill you the turn okaun comes out
rigid scarab
A removal check by turn 5 I think is reasonable in casual tables
A removal check by turn 2 is probably too much
Ok straight up
The worst feeling ever
Is watching a new player spend like 5 minutes trying to think of a line they can go through
They finally get that eureka moment
They go for the line
And you just
Point at the stax piece on the board that prevents that
glad peak
wouldn't be surprised since it seems to be a meme deck
lusty trench
Point at the stax piece on the board that prevents that
Or alternatively they’ve missed a word or ruling that ruins it
rigid scarab
That sucks
ornate cedar
Today, I learned that Mardu is a lot of fun
Currently I'm playing a life exchange deck
Vampires and spells that drain their life and add to mine
I got into Silver with it pretty easily
However, like with Master Duel, I expect to reach a wall at some point
zinc shard
golden plover
Yeah no shit
copper pecan
there is no way they're ever going to put the urza lands in standard again
golden plover
They've said Tron was a design mistake before
twilit canyon
7 mana turn 3 trivially
if you build your whole deck around it, sure but tron is a very very very easy "i made 3 land drops and have 7 mana" type of situation
copper pecan
[[expedition map]] is in standard right now
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
, , Sacrifice Expedition Map: Search your library for a land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
"I use maps to find out where explorers have already been. Then I go the other way." —Javad Nasrin, Ondu relic hunter
twilit canyon
yea
so its even easier
idt the problem is necessarily 7 mana turn 3
its the ease of access to it
going hard on generating that much mana should make you weak in other areas
tron can just make the land drops
golden plover
There's enough ways to give green lands that from would be a problem
past socket
Dredge do indeed be a mechanic
stark skiff
Haven’t dropped a bling post in a minute @atomic harness @sleek ferry
sleek ferry
That celestial armor is good
stark skiff
Yeah surprised it’s cheap as it is rn
past socket
[[Altar of Dementia]]
lost widgetBOT
steady onyx
god
i really wish i could play astanrdard ar my lgs now
that foundations is legal
wow
is this bo3 or bo1
this is all they have
rigid scarab
60 card magic makes you appreciate commander more honestly
That’s why commander isn’t a good beginner format
You blow out competitive steam on 60 card
steady onyx
what should i build????
rigid scarab
Which allows you to play commander for fun stuff
steady onyx
kona shit seems so funn
trail anvil
in standard?
twilit canyon
yeah a bad list
trail anvil
what darksteel card is in standard
trail anvil
oh fuck that lol
steady onyx
what deck do i play than
twilit canyon
dimir
gruul
boros control
jeskai convoke
golgari
theres a fair bit of options
trail anvil
you can try out stuff on like cockatrice or untap
twilit canyon
or moxfield to play test hands
past socket
I’ve just been playing and loving Sultai so definitely gotta try Sultai something in standard
Then again my Sultai experience has been mill/reanimator decks
past socket
But down as long as I can mess with more Sultai foolery
last glen
Had fun building this deck over the past few days
Is it worse than just curving out to hit the same payoffs? Probably.
It is more fun tho
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/C4F-4iEFKkmB_5XJTOrs2w
gritty nest
Also, it's gonna sell out immediately and I'm gonna hate not buying it but imma ...
Why spend $200 on an overpriced shit 5c deck
steady onyx
<@508419121843535892> Gruul prowess is pretty budget
i don't like gruul
is domain still a good deck?
also is there an equivalent to ygopro for mtg where i can see recent tournament tops
steady onyx
@sleek ferry it's cookie time
that's such a bad idea
but is like tej only deck i know how to play
sleek ferry
You could play cookies, just adjust the list to be a little more midrange
steady onyx
i also kinda feel i should learn golgari or dimir midrange tho and just play one of those 2 cause thet seem to be best
idk
i just don't wanna play a red deck thsts all
golden plover
So I think I figured out what Dimir looks like going forward
Annex loses us the game to Nemesis so we cut the Demons shell
Go all in on flash instead (with better ratios)
Enduring Curiosity is also just a busted card
twilit canyon
this is just the tempo shell of before with some new cards so yea good deck
idk if brineborn is good tho
golden plover
I'm not sold on brineborn, but I dunno what you'd slot in instead
The hall creepers are placeholder until I get another mastermind and curiosity
I think if I had it, a 1 off of new Kaito doesn't hurt
sleek ferry
I’m making Areo take Temur flood to locals
But I don’t have the wildcards for analyze the pollen 
twilit canyon
I'm not sold on brineborn, but I dunno what you'd slot in instead
more floodpits and mastermind and maybe a 4th curiosity
steady onyx
@twilit canyon should i play temur comvo for standard it wasn't on your list but it looks good
golden plover
more floodpits and mastermind and maybe a 4th curiosity
Curiosity is gonna be a 4 of once I get rare wcs
It's just really fun to be gated on WCs because every deck takes 100 tho
sleek ferry
Oh I will say
if they're going to up the # of standard sets, if they don't make it easier to get WC's in Arena, that's actual bullshit
even something like reducing the number of packs you need to open to get a wildcard from 6 to 5 would be a welcomed change
golden plover
Oh you know they won't
Arena is gonna become whales only with 6 sets per year
It's already hard enough to keep up with WC requirements if you don't spend a ton of money
sleek ferry
Yeah as somebody who’s managed to maintain mythic most metas while being f2p
It’s going to be impossible
golden plover
Yeah I only spent once to get the returning player thing and used that for the season passes for now
But I'll probably drop it completely if I can't keep up once 6 sets a year becomes a thing
Because standard will move too fast
And I'm in the majority but having to play advertisements for other IPs also really dampens the feel
I've seen a ton of pros say 6 sets per year is just too much for standard too
This is just not a good decision. And it's gonna lead to standard having 19 sets come rotation
sleek ferry
I don’t mind the amount of sets a year, but they’re going to lose a good chunk of the playerbase if they don’t adjust the easiness of getting wildcards
golden plover
They won't care because the whales will keep arena afloat
Enfranchised players leave, the whales spend $500 to buy a full playset of each set come release, and new f2ps come in for universes beyond and drop it when their IP leaves the spotlight
That's another issue with this. How many people will actually stay to help "revitalize standard" once the IP they bought in for leaves the spotlight/hell, even rotates?
I'd wager less than 20%
I imagine a lot of people will buy in, play a few games with Spiderman, and lose interest when there's a magic set or they've gotta buy Rick and Morty cards to keep their deck relevant
golden plover
I mean, a lot of players, especially for standard would buy into every set on release
If a commander player only bought the precons and didn't touch anything else, it didn't affect the ecosystem
If half of Arena's players leave every new set, it fucks up the ecosystem
clever sun
No it won't
golden plover
There's gotta be consistent non-whale players for the ecosystem to survive
golden plover
If people are gated out of playing via wildcards and then the new ones leave because spiderman isn't relevant anymore it only leaves whales v whales
clever sun
They don't leave though
They keep playing and complaining much like we see now
And they keep buying
Only this time we get people who love Spider-Man
And the X-Men
And Final Fantasy
So there's more players?
I think you're being way too pessimistic and/or idealistic over the situation here
You are assuming that the average case scenario will be "people enter and leave just as quick" when in reality, if they end up liking magic, a new player used to the new state of MtG will be even more likely to spend more money
They are going to be collecting the Marvel set on Arena and most ofren spending money to do so
fallow citrus
fuuuuck I forgot to reinstall mtga on my new drive
what decks are cool in standard rn
rigid scarab
I've never seen a player who got into Magic through UB ever only be interested in those UB cards
clever sun
Standard expert help
fallow citrus
🫡
clever sun
I've never seen a player who got into Magic through UB ever *only* be interested...
Me neither
It's silly to assume this to be the average case. Maybe it's actually the bigger scenario but if you went as far as to download arena, you aren't just interested in UB stuff
twilit canyon
yea im tired of this argument cus its kinda delusional
anyways
@fallow citrus theres tons of good standard decks rn it depends on your playstyle
foundations also dropped a load of cards onto ppl
twilit canyon
part of my worlds testing team was very into dimir
midrange has tons of options fortunately
our competitors at worlds tho played golgari
theres like 3-4 different midrange configs that all are possibly good/broken
and a ton of options
outside of the core removal, i think the deck can be super different
one thing certain: black is your color
fallow citrus
what does golgari offer that dimir doesn't
twilit canyon
glissa
sentinel
a different combo option
mosswood
scooze
llanowar
elves specifically
twilit canyon
i main it in golgari
oh also theres the golgari ramp deck
which is on beans and overlord
it did decent in worlds
but
worlds isnt the best for decklist funnily enough
fallow citrus
how so?
oh cause it's a contained environment where people play way differently to normal
I misread
twilit canyon
in our testing we hated our decks and the ppl who played
talking to their opponents also hated their deck
it was pure skill that won worlds
deck didnt matter every deck was 50/50 basically
(besides gruul)
hated in the sense that there didnt feel like an optimal 75
fallow citrus
yeah looking at golgari I think that's more of my thing than dimir
what's aggro like rn?
fallow citrus
golgari playing archfiend of the dross just for the huge body that needs to be answered ig?
and with elves you can get it out early too
twilit canyon
thats the fun part
you have like
20 different options
none are wrong
i am currently on 3 glissa, 4 preacher, 4 archfiend, 4 annex
but sentinel is a goated card
and maybe you go full combo
with innkeeper's, bat, and liliana
twilit canyon
but so is preacher and glissa
see the problem? maybe you're supposed to play all the 3 drops
and go low to the ground midrange style
what about 2 drops?
what about bronco? what about bat?
theres genuinely so many options
what if you play unstoppable slasher + bloodletter combo
fallow citrus
yeah it really sounds like there's way too much gas you can play in just 60 cards
fallow citrus
I feel like lilliana main isn't even bad if you can drop it on 2
twilit canyon
there is a ton to consider rn
also arena has one of the 2 decks i worked on rn in the store for sale
fallow citrus
do tell
twilit canyon
and domain
and gruul
and convoke in a way
and token control is still very good
this is my current golgari list
i love sentinel but i opted for a bit more lean on the annex
and i think preacher and glissa can have snowball potential vs other decks more easily
whereas sentinel is a safe pick that should be easy to side in/out depending on need
the removal core is 3 cut downs, 2-3 anoint, 4 gftt
your core cards are 4 llanowar, 2-3 glissa
everything else can kind of be moved around as needed
talking with some of the cfb guys too, its possible u go 4 mortuary and drop cottage in favor of the new creature land
i really wanna go sultai but i cant find the cuts and/or reason not to go domain if u go sultai
fallow citrus
which is the new manland?
twilit canyon
[[soulstone sanctuary]]
lost widgetBOT
Land
: Add .
: This land becomes a 3/3 creature with vigilance and all creature types. It's still a land.
By tradition, travelers touched the pillar for good luck. One day, it decided to travel as well.
twilit canyon
becomes a permanent 3/3 with vigilance
and all creature types
so demon means annex is goated
fallow citrus
ahh that makes sense
twilit canyon
and untapped
fallow citrus
and cottage has the advantage of making golgari mana and ig it dodges future removal by turning back into a land
twilit canyon
for now i went 6 copies between cottage and sanctuary
mhm
board wipes specifically
its just theorycrafting rn
standard is still super wide open
fallow citrus
although ig if you don't play as many annex it becomes an easier choice
twilit canyon
is the oculus tempo lists
playing djinn, oculus, and now kiora
that cheat them out
fallow citrus
is it pioneer kiora or is there a new one?
fallow citrus
icic
twilit canyon
but she has threshold and draws 2 discards 2
and makes a big ass kraken if she has threshold
its legendary but its still a huge threat for the deck that used to just have 2 threats
jeskai convoke is also likely very good
somewhat soft to the removal heavy decks but capable of taking games
oh elves are a deck
as are goblins
they are both lacking a true consolidated threat
but they are there
and are fringe
fallow citrus
oculus tempo might be interesting because I should have a lot of blue stuff still built
twilit canyon
maybe 1-2 cards each from being good
twilit canyon
does it not play the big elephant anymore?
long gone
the jeskai list is pretty neat but if it gets too popular there are too good answers vs it imo
fallow citrus
ahh ic
fallow citrus
yeah I don't have enough wildcards for this lmao
well almost not enough
I'm like 5 or 6 wildcard lands over
twilit canyon
thats not too bad
fallow citrus
yeah could have been much worse
the more I look at the golgari list the more interesting it seems to play
twilit canyon
its a very open-ended deck rn and it has a lot of power
very capable of aggroing someone down
or slowing down to grind
fallow citrus
is the best way of getting wild cards just to buy them
fallow citrus
well ig that makes sense
twilit canyon
events and draft are better but like
you gotta actually get good at draft for that
or events
fallow citrus
you gotta actually get good at draft for that
will never happen I am horrendous at sealed
twilit canyon
draft isnt sealed fortuntely
and there are a ton of resources for limited
17lands for instance and top drafters make a lot of content for free
tho recently since they implemented the gold pack system, going through getting packs can be reasonably efficient at getting wildcards
sleek ferry
There’s an esper control list I’ve been testing that I’m in love with
It’s the evolution of my Azorius control list from 3 standards ago
fallow citrus
hmm maybe I'll try draft again then
steady onyx
god i'm looking at golgari midrange and temur combo and both look really cool
temur look a a bit cheaper but that's the only tjing
zinc shard
golden plover
Wait how the fuck is Biovisionary gonna work in this deck
Also... This deck is gonna fucking SUCK HOLY SHIT
glad peak
The deck will have 3 clone effects, mark my words
golden plover
If you get exactly 4 you win!
Maybe they'll throw in [[Maskwood Nexus]] for the contract?
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
Creatures you control are every creature type. The same is true for creature spells you control and creature cards you own that aren't on the battlefield.
, : Create a 2/2 blue Shapeshifter creature token with changeling. (It is every creature type.)
golden plover
Or they just will have exactly 4 demons
glad peak
Or 1 demon that’s not legendary and you can use the clone effects to clone the demon!
Very efficient use of deck space
golden plover
How could I not think of that
This is why I can't design the worst deck of all time
trail anvil
btw survey was sent out for mtg arena for those who have emails enabled
rigid scarab
Liliana’s Contract was not on my list
Because I couldn’t fathom them making a deck that dysfunctional
past socket
[[Yargle and Multani]]
lost widgetBOT
past socket
I thank these spooky fellows for keeping my ooze boi fed with Counters
steady onyx
@twilit canyon you seem like u like golgari midrange any chance u have a more budget list or is the deck just expensive
?
twilit canyon
the deck in paper you mean?
its about 400$
its kind of expensive for a standard deck but you can easily get deals on a lot of cards it plays to get it for about 200
twilit canyon
no
theres only a core set of cards that are going to be necessary
past that, theres a ton of options
twilit canyon
20 different options
read from here
steady onyx
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
twilit canyon
not right now
twilit canyon
magic is very rarely a game about the one good list
there has been some but
its rare
past socket
Golgari Grave-Troll my beloved
steady onyx
is it better to continue grinding on my account
or try to get a new mtga account
tog et a lot of resources
to build a new deck
last glen
Arena isn't really like MD (or other gachas) where you're given a lot of free-choice stuff at the start of your account to get you started and get you hooked
Arena will give you a bunch of beginner-targeted product to ease you into the game
not resources to build your first dream deck for cheap
trail anvil
did you already use all the free codes from before they switched to the new system?
trail anvil
make sure you use all of these
other than that, there's no real way to collect resources super fast other than being good at limited. but you're gonna need to play a lot more/study a lot to get good at that
zinc shard
If you want rewards play Ranked
If you're learning your deck play non ranked
steady onyx
how much longer is agathas soul cauldron standard legal?
zinc shard
"Until early 2027"
steady onyx
oh ok
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/LsIdhmPH6UyrkSkm_9XVzA
if i wanted to make this better for bo3 standard what sideboard can I use and anything I shoduld change around?
its my current arena deck and wanna get in paper
trail anvil
man the opponent getting the literal exact answer off multiple topdecks is truly the universe giving you a big middle finger
it's one thing if they go for the throat your creature, it's a whole other thing if you block their 1 power creature then they manage to steal a disfigure off the top of your deck with that attack for the remaining 2 toughness
twilit canyon
[[skrelv's hive]]
lost widgetBOT
subtle sierra
the goat
golden plover
Oh wtf the tokens for JMP25 do have art... But it's only on arena
Should've included the tokens in their respective sets
Also the JMP25 event on arena rn isn't phantom
You get to keep the cards
golden plover
Cynette's token looks like really bad lol
But Cynette's art is not very good either so
Psemilla is the only other card to make a new token but I dunno where that art is from
lusty trench
Psemilla summoning a fuckin alternate
golden plover
I cannot source that art at all
No other card makes a nymph token
Where the fuck is that from
But yeah, considering they commissioned art for these, they really should've put a token slot in the pack
Although maybe they wanna hide Cynette's awful art
Fumulus uses Xira's token
trail anvil
the anime art base style feels weird
copper pecan
it kinda clashes with the frame