Magic the Gathering

[sudden lava]

You planning on using AOTIT as a commander?

[gritty nest]

In the morning I’m probably going to throw the cards I have for Tana Ravos onto moxfield so you guys can see the shit show I have so far

[gritty nest]

Elaborate

[sudden lava]

Agent of the Iron Throne is a background, you can use it as a commander alongside a creature that says "Choose a background" as dual commanders

[gritty nest]

Oh

I thought you meant aotit as another card

No it’s in the 99 of foods and Tana Ravos

[sudden lava]

Ah ok

[gritty nest]

I know how backgrounds work but never found a background commander I liked

[sudden lava]

Also earlier on a stream I saw a funny gimmick food deck

They used Rocco as their commander soley to tutor displaced dinosaurs

and then used displaced dinosaurs to make their food generators create dino nuggets

[gritty nest]

I wanted to like displaced

But it requires very specific decks to be okay in

[sudden lava]

yeah

[gritty nest]

Any decks you’re working on?

[sudden lava]

a small bit of preparation for Peace Offering upgrades

[gritty nest]

Nice

I’m still debating on if I’m actually gonna get a bloomburrow precon

[sudden lava]

get the trash panda

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/448940916833648640/1264069402899255307/image.png?ex=669c87de&is=669b365e&hm=8675a131d0b2730293e1c63b7f28447fb5f589a4c06f1bc3bf14ebc8528cc24c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

but yeah already pre-ordered it and everything

[zinc shard]

... yay?

[trail anvil]

normally I like seeing things at costco but tbh I'd just prefer to spend a bit more money and support my local lgs

[stark skiff]

dont really shop at costco but its neat if they have that fallout set at retail cause its been marked up like crazy

[stark skiff]

btw komi finally got around to making an account and did the Omo deck

this is what i have atm:

https://archidekt.com/decks/8470140/omo

I need to get a Scion of Oona still otherwise itd be in there

[trail anvil]

I like how aven courier and force of negation are both under "counters"

that's a kinda funny thing

[stark skiff]

still need an Archdruid Charm too

[trail anvil]

have you considered [[disciple of freyalise]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/250/disciple-of-freyalise-garden-of-freyalise

Disciple of Freyalise <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Elf Druid
When Disciple of Freyalise enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice another creature. If you do, you gain X life and draw X cards, where X is that creature's power.
"Freyalise is gone, but her song lives on."
3/3

Garden of Freyalise
Land
As Garden of Freyalise enters the battlefield, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add .
The Juniper Order safeguards secret places that still thrum with traces of Freyalise's life-giving magic.

[stark skiff]

i thought about it but a 6 drop to draw cards is kinda ehh id hope id have a draw engine by then

[stark skiff]

meanwhile counterspell isnt under counters

[trail anvil]

lul

[trail anvil]

it's kinda ehh but the way I look at it is you have a land early and if you stall out (which omo does), it gets you going again

that way I see it's never dead

[stark skiff]

yeah thats why i tried to add as much as draw as i could cause omo sucks without a lord to give her the evasion she needs

[trail anvil]

I just figure that way you never flood

[stark skiff]

i might mess around with it

but yeah list still has some flex spots like Propaganda for other cards.

oh yeah i also want to add Pheres-Band Warchief

Seshiro the Anointed, Tendershoot Dryad, and Shifting Sliver also are others ive been contemplating

lol they bought the 2 $50 listings and only the 2 $99 listings are left

[stark skiff]

Picked these up scared of @twilit canyon buyout

[golden plover]

What the fuck is my opponent doing

[twilit canyon]

yoo

[golden plover]

Toying with this list more. Other than 1-2 more synthesizer, what do y'all think needs changing?

I'm honestly not loving [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/nec/91/emry-lurker-of-the-loch

Emry, Lurker of the Loch <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.
When Emry, Lurker of the Loch enters the battlefield, mill four cards.
: Choose target artifact card in your graveyard. You may cast that card this turn. (You still pay its costs. Timing rules still apply.)
1/2

[twilit canyon]

a 4th lab would help

the 1 ofs dont make sense without urza's saga

9 targets for lab is low too

[golden plover]

I mean, we unfortunately don't have saga or enough high quality 0 drop artifacts

Springleaf and Shadowspear are "these help us sometimes but we're not dying to see them"

[twilit canyon]

we arent missing many oyhers

*others

shadowspear springleaf and spellbomb are about it

[golden plover]

I don't think crypt is worth main decking tho, although I could swap spear for it for the scam matchup

There's also unfortunately not anything else for Lab I'd really wanna play. Probably a 4th Nulldrifter I guess

[twilit canyon]

without saga u dont need to run those is my point just go in on the springleafs

[golden plover]

That works yeah

[twilit canyon]

you do need 12 hits

for lab

[golden plover]

Unfortunately we don't have [[Sojourner's Companion]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/235/sojourners-companion

Sojourner's Companion <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Salamander
Affinity for artifacts
Artifact landcycling (, Discard this card: Search your library for an artifact land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.)
Before Phyrexia's corruption, many of Mirrodin's creatures were more curious than cruel.
4/4

[twilit canyon]

4 myr enforcers is okay

idt this is a patchwork deck

[golden plover]

Yeah, I can go to 4 enforcer, 1-2 more springleaf

Patchwork is our backup kappa

He always comes down t2 and he's sometimes also a 5/5

I don't love him, but if the choice is between him and Emry, he's staying I think

Emry feels too winmore rn

[twilit canyon]

emry is so much stronger than ur giving her credit for

actually let's let the expert weigh in

@clever sun

[golden plover]

I know she's really good when she sticks

But my issue is that she reads "eat a removal spell"

[twilit canyon]

shes been playing this deck

[golden plover]

Although I did grind out a DS game with her because I'm able to keep bouncing my Bauble

[clever sun]

https://tenor.com/view/fat-guy-shooting-gun-gun-shot-gif-15114243

[golden plover]

I think I'm just only remembering the games where Emry dies to every removal spell in the world and not the ones where she values me out

[clever sun]

Mandatory four of

Maybe three-of

[golden plover]

What would I cut for her tho?

[clever sun]

List is up there?

[golden plover]

Yeah

Here's it with the drums in place of the saga drops

[clever sun]

You're like three maybe four lands too high

[golden plover]

Hmm so 3 less lands, 3 emry?

[clever sun]

I'd play down even to 16

You don't need spire much

Get the fourth Lab

[golden plover]

Yeah I'm gated by mythic wcs

I need a 4th lab and 2 more synthesizers

[clever sun]

Since we don't have any double blue pips in Timeless, you can be even more reckless on your color sources

[golden plover]

Can I? Less islands?

I'm not sold on the bridges but I kinda feel like they're important enough

Could put in breeding pools for haywire mites

[clever sun]

Oh no like cut the bad lands

[golden plover]

I'm ngl, I'm also tempted to splash hallowed fountains. In the case we need to hard cast our Leyline

[clever sun]

I'd do three Vents, eight Islands, four Labyrinth, four Darksteel

[golden plover]

Gotcha

[clever sun]

Honestly would probably do five Islands and an Otawara

[golden plover]

I don't have an Otawara

[clever sun]

Darn

[golden plover]

But would pool be fine? We need ways to play Mite and it's pool, spire, or springleaf

[clever sun]

Not really

[golden plover]

I guess we're fine with just springleaf and spire, but 1-2 pools might help

[clever sun]

You don't need white at all

[golden plover]

Nah, haywire needs the green pip

[clever sun]

Oh Mites? Also not really needed

If you are that concerned swap Vents for Spires

[golden plover]

I was only considering white because if we draw Leyline and not see it in the opening hand, it's dead

[clever sun]

I wouldn't play Leyline at all

[golden plover]

With how much scam is in timeless, Leyline seemed like it's a good call

But I guess that would free up sideboard slots

Not sure what to replace them with

[clever sun]

You don't lose to their scam you lose to their speed

Turn one 3/2 or 3/3 double striker is the lethal plays

I don't think Scam is very good in Timeless. The win percentage doesn't support caring about them that much either.

[golden plover]

I've been seeing more of the Rescaminator list with Atraxa than regular scam lately

[clever sun]

That's because Psychic Frog is busted

[golden plover]

Yeah, that's a fucked up card

Was funny, had a match against that deck with Soul Sisters and I had Leyline up, so they thoughtseized themself to get Atraxa in the grave and reanimate

[clever sun]

It has too many cases where the card is bad but there are also just situations where Frog is the only reason you're alive so you know

Good card

[golden plover]

Frog is enabling dumb shit in legacy too

Very solid card

[clever sun]

It isn't an enabler as much as it slots right into Rescaminator

[golden plover]

Yeah true

[clever sun]

The natural end-point for the deck because they hated Delver

[golden plover]

Oh right, I've also got Death's Shadow with Frog and I'm not sure what I should be doing with that deck

[clever sun]

Either not Shadow or not Frog

They don't play very well together

Frog and Shadow clash because Shadow losing life rapidly means Frog needs to keep up the damage but the ideal scenario is Frog only discards once maybe twice in a match

[golden plover]

This is what I was on

But I think I'd rather go to Grixis frog than Grixis shadow tbh

Frog feels like the better way to win game rn

[clever sun]

Why Jeggy over Lurrus?

But also your fetch coujt is way too low

Shadow plays 10-12 fetches

[golden plover]

Pure Shadow lists were running something that didn't let me play lurrus

Never swapped it when frog came out

I can make that swap easy tho

[clever sun]

Either way, you either play Shadow, or you play Frog

[golden plover]

And this is my only other timeless deck

[clever sun]

And you don't go three colors

[golden plover]

But I dunno if you have any experience with Soul Siblings

[clever sun]

I do in other formats. This isn't great though.

[golden plover]

I'll probably pivot to Dimir Frog then

[twilit canyon]

for this, why not play domain white

with one rings and bindings and such

[clever sun]

True! That's likely the best Lifegain Mono-White list

We miss out on Martyr

But practically all other cards are legal

I'd probably consider White Eldrazi for the Lab too

[golden plover]

I just like the idea of soul siblings, yeah true

[twilit canyon]

lab is ambitious tho

u want fetches to enable surveil lands and a triome to have domain available

but maybe it wins fast enough idk

[golden plover]

Ohh domain white I'm missing a lot of cards for and would need to dump a ton of WCs

[clever sun]

It maybe is, but this could be a Yorion list

[golden plover]

I'd probably be better off crafting Boros Aggro at that rate

[clever sun]

Boros Energy is the meta call. That or Show and Tell

Or MBC

Or Jeskai Control

There's a lot going on in Timeless

Domain Zoo is good

Frog decks are good

Reanimator is good

"There's a lot going on in Timeless. None of which is remotely fair. But it's all relatively balanced."

[trail anvil]

question, is this list not legal in historic?

[clever sun]

No

Lab was pre-banned

[trail anvil]

ah

[golden plover]

This is what I can do for now I guess

God I wish we had Sojourner's Companion

[twilit canyon]

slimes top 20 lets gooooooo

[waxen timber]

What tournament is that?

[twilit canyon]

modern challenge on mtgo

[sleek ferry]

Should I do the mtgo tourneys Misty?

[twilit canyon]

challenges? if you have mtgo decks or a rental service they are pretty good

definitely fun

[sleek ferry]

Isn’t the mtgo interface ass though? That’s always been my worry

[twilit canyon]

it kinda is

takes some getting used to

but if you practice it, its doable

i personally dont have a rental service sub or enough cards on mtgo

so i dont

[golden plover]

Love drafting like 6 rares I can't use

I wasn't even raredrafting

Shit just got passed to me

[fallow citrus]

just watch people play honestly, spike or thrabenu or someone just to get used to the interface

[trail anvil]

I was wondering how slime would be meta relevant then I saw the list

this is one hell of a list lmao

is insult//injury really the best damage doubler?

[twilit canyon]

its "free" off ugins lab + stomping ground

[atomic harness]

Soujouner's companion is the goat

word me Misty aeri komi

[stark skiff]

Todays foils pickup @atomic harness @rigid scarab @sleek ferry

[sleek ferry]

I’m convinced you just pick up anything

Why? Who the hell wanted that Miku lol

[stark skiff]

Not me but it’s cheap enough for an Azusa and it could go up just cause of name brand

[sleek ferry]

https://x.com/powrdragn/status/1814979308198211597?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhiq8A

DeQuan Watson (@powrdragn) on X

Magic players are a week away from this.

Twitter · Jul 21, 2024, 11:02 AM

[sudden lava]

I look forward to the prerelease

[lusty trench]

Just realised they fucked up the templating for muerra

[[muerra]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/227/muerra-trash-tactician

Muerra, Trash Tactician <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Raccoon Warrior
At the beginning of your first main phase, add or for each Raccoon you control.
Whenever you expend 4, you gain 3 life. (You expend 4 as you spend your fourth total mana to cast spells during a turn.)
Whenever you expend 8, exile the top two cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards.
2/4

[lusty trench]

This shit isn't making mana ever as written

Needs a "this turn" slapped in after main phase

(it's very obvious what it's meant to do and could be the result of templating changes but it's funny)

Ah I see they changed the terms "pre combat main phase" and "post combat main phase" to "first main phase" and "second main phase"

[golden plover]

Yugioh now

[trail anvil]

honestly good change. I played with a dude who thought precombat main phase means start of combat for some reason lol

[golden plover]

Lmao why

[trail anvil]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ didn't really manage to affect the game too hard at least

[golden plover]

That's surprising

Playing GDS has taught me how important [[psychic frog]] growing at instant speed for marginally no cost is

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/199/psychic-frog

Psychic Frog <:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Frog
Whenever Psychic Frog deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker, draw a card.
Discard a card: Put a +1/+1 counter on Psychic Frog.
Exile three cards from your graveyard: Psychic Frog gains flying until end of turn.
Some frogs poison the body. Some frogs poison the mind.
1/2

[sleek ferry]

https://x.com/bmkibler/status/1814811016796254322?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhiq8A

Brian Kibler (@bmkibler) on X

One of the guys in my boffer fighting group said he was bringing a bunch of old magic cards that were "probably nothing special" to practice today

Twitter · Jul 20, 2024, 11:53 PM

[trail anvil]

jesus fuck

[glad peak]

He’s not wrong, I’ll offer him 50 cents per card

[twilit canyon]

damn. even in mythic ppl go out sad like this playing some true garbage

but also my opponent should have let me kill them

[sleek ferry]

Ob nix in timeless?!

You peaked my interest

That’s like my favorite Walker

[twilit canyon]

its mardu energy

[sleek ferry]

I’m interested, you playing that cthonian card?

[twilit canyon]

nah

thought about it, but i opted for 2 sorins

[trail anvil]

what are they playing?

[twilit canyon]

lurrus thoracle

they got shat on despite having a cantrip and a thoughtseize

[stark skiff]

Quick question does a creature “die” if it is exiled? In this case Altair last effect for Species Specialist

[copper pecan]

no, exiling doesn't count as death

[stark skiff]

Damn this card sucks then in this build haha

[gritty nest]

[[azlask]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/5/azlask-the-swelling-scourge

Azlask, the Swelling Scourge <:mana3:292901508771610624>

Legendary Creature — Eldrazi
Whenever Azlask, the Swelling Scourge or another colorless creature you control dies, you get an experience counter.
: Creatures you control get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of experience counters you have. Scions and Spawns you control gain indestructible and annihilator 1 until end of turn.
2/2

[trail anvil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwD8NLbEP3I

[stark skiff]

Sorry just wanted to follow up on this with Altair's ability and Mirkwood Bats. I know it would trigger the bats when he makes the copies, but would it trigger the bats when they get exiled at end of combat?

[lusty trench]

No

You have to specifically do the game action of sacrificing to get the trigger when they leave

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPc-Q4U-sms

The D20 of the prerelease has a few different colors

[golden plover]

I forgot you can just draft like 5 O-rings

Very cool

[golden plover]

https://preview.redd.it/pbi4xyhym2ed1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=9429933448e38e1f20e6809458795498d0fd9fbc

Miku SL bonus card is a textless command tower

[rigid scarab]

Command Tower I think defo goes on the list on cards that can go textless

[golden plover]

Yeah, textless works for command tower.

It being in Japanese makes it a little harder

But they've done a few textless towers already

[rigid scarab]

It can also be added as part of the manabase of the fabled textless commander deck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDwRYMrQlc&ab_channel=TheRedBobcat

[golden plover]

Princess Bride SL had one

[rigid scarab]

Brb gonna burn my collection

[golden plover]

And the pixel art lair

[rigid scarab]

Brb gonna burn my house

[golden plover]

Why

[stark skiff]

he's rich can afford another

[lusty trench]

Sold my bulk that’d never sell/take forever to my lgs

[gritty nest]

God I love this tower

[urban crane]

What’s everyone’s favorite tribal deck?

[rigid scarab]

Dinosaur

[last glen]

[golden plover]

This is referring to [[Teferi, Time Raveler]] right?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/232/teferi-time-raveler

Teferi, Time Raveler <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Planeswalker — Teferi
Each opponent can cast spells only any time they could cast a sorcery.
+1: Until your next turn, you may cast sorcery spells as though they had flash.
−3: Return up to one target artifact, creature, or enchantment to its owner's hand. Draw a card.
Loyalty: 4

[zinc shard]

most likely

[twilit canyon]

not sure actually

ah nvm

ian confirmed it was teferi's rebalance

[golden plover]

Semi-related I just remembered that LCI Special Guests were at the card's original rarity and I'm fully convinced they changed that just because of Arena. No fucking way a playset of [[Frogmite]] should set me back 4 MYTHIC WCs

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/215/frogmite

Frogmite <:mana4:292901508712890379>

Artifact Creature — Frog
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
At first, vedalken observers thought blinkmoths naturally avoided certain places. Then they realized those places were frogmite feeding grounds.
2/2

[golden plover]

Still don't get why cards like this and bolt can't be crafted at their "real rarity"

[trail anvil]

$$$

[golden plover]

Yeah pretty much

It wouldn't cost them any more development time to put the original art and rarity of every Special Guest card on arena

[twilit canyon]

it does

ian has mentioned its about getting 3 main things

making sure the art is fine, making sure the card borders are done properly, and then making sure that the cards are properly tied to the card

we saw what happened with the glitch with timeless dragon

so there is just not actually a big enough demand for these cards

to be worth doing them over new cards

[golden plover]

I mean, surely there's no reason it can't just be "slap mirrodon Frogmyr's art on the generic colorless border and make it craftable for a common WC"

There's no way that's gonna bug out the game. Could even just use the SG set code

[sudden lava]

May build Alania, she's cute

[golden plover]

It wouldn't be 100% the same as the paper card, but it's such an easy solution

And with anthologies, a lot of these do already have their proper setcodes in arena

For example, [[Aether Spellbomb]] means Frogmyr can be assigned to Mirrodin

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/456/aether-spellbomb

Aether Spellbomb <:mana1:292901508373282827>

Artifact
, Sacrifice Aether Spellbomb: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
, Sacrifice Aether Spellbomb: Draw a card.
"Release that which was never caged." —Spellbomb inscription

[twilit canyon]

again

do you remember timeless dragon?

i have a feeling arena's code is about as fucked as mtgo

no doubt bc of wotc cheaping out on the teams and layoffs

[golden plover]

Seems crazy to me that the wrong setcode would completely break a card

Especially if it's a card that's already on arena at that point

Timeless Dragon wasn't on arena at the time iirc

Frogmyr will already be coded in with Bloomburrow

[twilit canyon]

right and bolt is already coded but the problem is manpower and effort to not break things

they also need to make things align well and look good

ian and dave have mentioned its not a menial task

and theres a standard they need to uphold for wotc

which basically tells me that the arena staff is understaffed

and the team doesnt want to overwork their employees

[golden plover]

I dunno arena's backend, but that feels like a copout for something that'd probably take an afternoon at best

[twilit canyon]

that much ian has said

[golden plover]

If it's really that hard to put the same card on there twice, that's impressive

Especially considering stuff like Fabled Passage and the temples are already on there like 5 times

And stuff like Iteration already has 2 different rarities

[golden plover]

Hmm weird. The new frames thing doesn't really seem like a valid argument tho unless it's like Time Spiral stuff

I guess the rest of it makes sense

But the frames should already be there

[twilit canyon]

as much as i'd like for the solution to be a simple "why dont they just put the cards and damn how it looks"

there is a lot going on and there is also a standard needed

and the fact that the arena team is very reluctant to overwork the devs

maybe they can "rip the bandaid off" for one set, but then it impacts a future set which impacts more and more and i highly doubt the crew they have will get bigger rather, its more likeyl wotc will lay off more

[golden plover]

I guess that's fair. I just don't see how 10 extra cards that are already getting added to the client need that much extra work

Also they could have done it over the commander deck cards

[twilit canyon]

the other part is entirely that i do agree that wotc likely is pushing them to delay some of these to extract value

think lightning helix

took about 3 years for it to go to its og rarity

even though it sees fringe play in pioneer and historic

[golden plover]

Oh yeah I fully think Wotc at least sorta does it for extra cash

Half the mystical archive is still archive only

And these are historically common cards like swords, bolt, and brainstorm

[twilit canyon]

and sure a good chunk of those are like

super rare to see anywhere but timeless

actually for bolt, swords, and brainstorm

they are only timeless

so there is very little incentive to put any manpower into getting those into their og rarities

[golden plover]

Yeah there's some others that weren't, but I didn't know the rarity of those off the top of my head

I guess Flooting was a good example

It took forever to get it's common print

[twilit canyon]

yeah though looting was also a weird card

not legal in pioneer

so no incentive for explorer

sure as hell wasnt getting a standard print

so it left it in the special section of the soi remaster

[golden plover]

Speaking of Pioneer, whens Pioneer Masters

Wasn't that supposed to be Christmas last year

[last glen]

Not enough pioneer players, I guess

[copper pecan]

i thought it was supposed to be christmas this year

[golden plover]

According to the wiki, it was supposed to be 2021 and keeps getting pushed back

[twilit canyon]

christmas this year yes

[gritty nest]

I bought two sets of the Sheldon spellbook lair. Unsure what to do with the second one

[golden plover]

@twilit canyon @sleek ferry [[Neheb the Eternal]] is getting a random nerf with Bloomburrow

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/158/neheb-the-eternal

Neheb, the Eternal <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Zombie Minotaur Warrior
Afflict 3 (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, defending player loses 3 life.)
At the beginning of your postcombat main phase, add for each 1 life your opponents have lost this turn.
"This is what glory looks like." —Nicol Bolas
4/6

[golden plover]

There's probably other cards too

But "second main phase" nerfs him really hard

[twilit canyon]

i see

[golden plover]

He was like on and off cedh playable before

This kills his combo lines tho

Since you can't take 3-4 extra postcombat mains

[sudden lava]

https://youtu.be/S4fBzCLC-bU

[golden plover]

Oh it's more relevantly a minor nerf to [[Tymna]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver

Tymna the Weaver <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Lifelink
At the beginning of your postcombat main phase, you may pay X life, where X is the number of opponents that were dealt combat damage this turn. If you do, draw X cards.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
2/2

[golden plover]

Not gonna come up as much as Neheb

But it does nerf her

[twilit canyon]

yea

so its all around good

it kills the hopes of some poor player thinking they should be on neheb instead of magda or godo

and it nerfs tymna a lil bit

[golden plover]

It's like fine, but losing out on the funny Neheb strat is a little sad

[atomic harness]

misty when will they unban fury 😭

ill actually play if they do

[twilit canyon]

fury wouldnt solve anything rn

but also idk if they will

it'd be a safe unban but

not one thats needed

if that makes sense

[glad peak]

Is this for everything or just arena?

Seems like a huge hit for Neheb

[atomic harness]

yeah I just miss it

[sudden lava]

dumb commander deck idea

https://youtu.be/MaiUUitZbns

We take as many cards from this song's lyrics as possible (Looking at you melt through) and shove them into a single deck

[trail anvil]

they're probably just banning nadu/shuko yeah?

[twilit canyon]

probs

[subtle sierra]

Nadu, more like bandu

I'm sorry

[gritty nest]

The first second main phase thing annoys me

My Minotaur tribal is now even more mid

[trail anvil]

could've errata'd it to say "during the main phase, except the first main phase" or something to the effect

[gritty nest]

Or like

Not change it at all

[golden plover]

Everything. "Postcombat" is becoming "second main" across the board

[golden plover]

Honestly, I kinda hate this change? Only because like 75% of Neheb decks are built around using stuff like [[Aggravated Assault]] to go infinite

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ons/185/aggravated-assault

Aggravated Assault <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Enchantment
: Untap all creatures you control. After this main phase, there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase. Activate only as a sorcery.

[golden plover]

Neheb should have been left unchanged

[sleek ferry]

Revisiting this deck today

Tweaked it for post rotation

[fallow citrus]

when does bloomburrow drop again

[copper pecan]

the 30th

[fallow citrus]

awesome

[copper pecan]

sets always come out in arena on tuesdays for some reason

[twilit canyon]

perfect day to drop

it isnt monday so employees arent grouchy from post-weekend

it also isnt so late that u cant put out bug fixes

[lusty trench]

Monty python secret lair

Volume One-

• ⁠Tim the Enchanter -- [[Prodigal Sorcerer]]
• ⁠Bring Out Your Dead! -- [[Buried Alive]]
• ⁠'Tis But a Scratch -- [[Dismember]]
• ⁠African Swallow // European Swallow (double-sided) -- [[Birds of Paradise]]
• ⁠We Want.... A SHRUBBERY! -- [[Three Visits]]

Volume Two-

• ⁠The Bridge of Death -- [[Door to Nothingness]]
• ⁠Sir Bedivere's Scales -- [[Ashnod's Altar]]
• ⁠Castle of Aaargh -- [[Dark Depths]]
• ⁠The Black Beast of Aaargh -- [[Marit Lage]] token

Abysmal value but funni ig

Holy hand grenade and rabbit are my guesses for bonus cards

[gritty nest]

Oh is this official?

[golden plover]

Yeah funny enough lair

At least like 2 of the cards are playable?

And Tim being Tim is nice

For context [[Prodigal Sorcerer]] looks like Tim

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ema/67/prodigal-sorcerer

Prodigal Sorcerer <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Human Wizard
: Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to any target.
"You can't learn to enjoy life's amusements in the pages of books. You must seek them out in earnest."
1/1

[golden plover]

Well, the original art

[gritty nest]

Ah okay

[golden plover]

Oh not original

7ed

[gritty nest]

Has the art been shown yet for the SL, or only just announced?

[golden plover]

Art was shown by IGN

https://www.ign.com/slideshows/9-cards-in-secret-lair-x-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-vol-1-2

Card image gallery

[gritty nest]

Oh nice

Thank you

[golden plover]

Kinda wish the black knight was [[Oathsworn Knight]] ngl

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/eld/98/oathsworn-knight

Oathsworn Knight <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Human Knight
Oathsworn Knight enters the battlefield with four +1/+1 counters on it.
Oathsworn Knight attacks each combat if able.
If damage would be dealt to Oathsworn Knight while it has a +1/+1 counter on it, prevent that damage and remove a +1/+1 counter from it.
0/0

[lusty trench]

My main thing with this is it didn’t have to be a two part lair at all

[golden plover]

Yeah true. Really could have a single lair

But remember, that's only $40 for 8 cards

Gotta make it $80

The value is abysmal if you're not a big Monty Python fan btw

Prodigal Sorcerer is sub $1
Buried Alive is sub $1
Dismember is $2-$3
BoP is $6ish
Door is $2ish
Altar is $4ish
Dark Depths is like $6?
And a Marit Lage token is like $2

Totals to $20ish in cards for $80

[lusty trench]

It’s abysmal even if you are a fan tbh, a lot of these cards are strange choices at best

I think a cuter idea for this or similar lairs would be magic characters acting this out like a play

[golden plover]

I mean, it would have been really easy to Godzilla treatment some cards for the black knight (Oathsworn is right there), Arthur, and other notable characters

Kenrith as Arthur and Norin as Robin is obvious

[gritty nest]

can’t put too much value in those secret lairs

[golden plover]

Honestly it's crazy

Some of the first secret lairs had equivalent value to the singles or MUCH more

Hell, one of the first lairs was 5c legends with [[The Ur Dragon]] and [[Reaper King]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/361/the-ur-dragon

The Ur-Dragon <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Dragon Avatar
Eminence — As long as The Ur-Dragon is in the command zone or on the battlefield, other Dragon spells you cast cost less to cast.
Flying
Whenever one or more Dragons you control attack, draw that many cards, then you may put a permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield.
10/10

https://scryfall.com/card/shm/260/reaper-king

Reaper King <:mana2w:292901508771741696><:mana2u:292901508721410058><:mana2b:292901508469489667><:mana2r:292901508310368259><:mana2g:292901508695982080>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Scarecrow
( can be paid with any two mana or with . This card's mana value is 10.)
Other Scarecrow creatures you control get +1/+1.
Whenever another Scarecrow enters the battlefield under your control, destroy target permanent.
It's harvest time.
6/6

[golden plover]

Oh the third card there was [[Sliver Hivelord]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/937/sliver-hivelord

Sliver Hivelord <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Sliver
Sliver creatures you control have indestructible. (Damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy them.)
"This is the source, the line unbroken since the calamity that brought such monsters to our shores." —Hastric, Thunian scout
5/5

[golden plover]

Not that one

[[Sliver Overlord]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/scg/139/sliver-overlord

Sliver Overlord <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Sliver Mutant
: Search your library for a Sliver card, reveal that card, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
: Gain control of target Sliver. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
The end of evolution.
7/7

[golden plover]

I get that they can't all be $200+ lairs

But could they at least be like $20ish?

[gritty nest]

But at least make the lair worth half or equal to the price of it

[golden plover]

That way it doesn't feel like you're paying a $20-$30 premium for the art or crossover

[gritty nest]

“But its unique art “

[golden plover]

The worst one was that LoTR one that was literally $3 in uncommons

But like... $10 worth of cards for $40 feels like shit

[gritty nest]

Most people only buy lairs to play with them or to resell, there’s fewer people who buy to collect

[sudden lava]

This brings back the memories of when in high school I did the holy hand grenade scene for drama class

I was the bunny

🐇

[golden plover]

True, but there's lots of lairs that are just unplayable ngl

Like the lair with Shivan Dragon and some random uncommons recently

[gritty nest]

Yea, most lairs now aren’t worth buying

I only bought Sheldon spellbook because it had tef pro and inkshield

[golden plover]

I liked the "starter commander lairs" recently

Stuff like Lara Croft

The value wasn't there, but everything fit the theme and was like decent to mid value

[sudden lava]

https://www.ign.com/articles/magic-the-gathering-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-secret-lair-spoilers

Here's the IGN article on said SL

[golden plover]

Oh god @lusty trench the most annoying guy at your LGS will buy and play these and subject the table to bad Monty Python impressions all game

[lusty trench]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-guy-falling-dark-souls-arrow-gif-arrow-gif-27055769

[golden plover]

It's honestly probably gonna be worse here in the states

Since bad British accents too

But I imagine there's also the theme of "guy who watched Monty Python too many times and thinks references are a substitute for jokes" in the UK too?

[lusty trench]

They exist here for sure

[golden plover]

Well now they have new ammunition

[stark skiff]

Never seen it

But Birds of Paradise getting reprinted like back to back to back is funny

But yeah this shoulda all just been one secret lair.

[atomic harness]

Nice troll lairs @stark skiff

It's over for you

[bronze bronze]

is westvale abbey legal to play in a non-black commander deck?

[twilit canyon]

p sure ik the land

[[westvale abbey]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/soi/281/westvale-abbey-ormendahl-profane-prince

Westvale Abbey

Land
: Add .
, , Pay 1 life: Create a 1/1 white and black Human Cleric creature token.
, , Sacrifice five creatures: Transform Westvale Abbey, then untap it.

Ormendahl, Profane Prince
Legendary Creature — Demon
Flying, lifelink, indestructible, haste
With Griselbrand gone, the Skirsdag eagerly awaited another demon to claim their devotion. Ormendahl did not make them wait long.
9/7

[twilit canyon]

yep

nothing taps for black or gives it a black color id

so its legal outside of non-black

[stark skiff]

[atomic harness]

Huh is that just briselgrand without the draw

[bronze bronze]

the backside has the color pip on the left hand side that makes it black, so that's why im asking

[twilit canyon]

oh ur right

it does have that

hm ig ask beforehand

i wouldnt say anything in any playgroup i play in

but some ppl might just deny cus of that outright

[sleek ferry]

I would never consider the backside tbh

When it comes to color identity

[twilit canyon]

ik it comes up like the mh3 flipwalkers

they are all 2c id

[bronze bronze]

imma not play it, just to reduce controversy

[twilit canyon]

if u want more or less a better version of the card, [[mirrex]] is available

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/one/254/mirrex

Mirrex

Land — Sphere
: Add .
: Add one mana of any color. Activate only if Mirrex entered the battlefield this turn.
, : Create a 1/1 colorless Phyrexian Mite artifact creature token with toxic 1 and "This creature can't block." (Players dealt combat damage by it also get a poison counter.)

[twilit canyon]

the tokens cant block but are infinitely more of a threat

[bronze bronze]

the main reason im making tokens in the first place is cuz im playing [[baylen]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/205/baylen-the-haymaker

Baylen, the Haymaker <:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Rabbit Warrior
Tap two untapped tokens you control: Add one mana of any color.
Tap three untapped tokens you control: Draw a card.
Tap four untapped tokens you control: Put three +1/+1 counters on Baylen, the Haymaker. It gains trample until end of turn.
4/3

[golden plover]

Actually no

[twilit canyon]

sure. mirrex is likely betyer than anyways

[golden plover]

It's got a black indicator on the back

[twilit canyon]

*better

[golden plover]

No because of the indicator

[twilit canyon]

u dont wanna eat your tokens

[golden plover]

Same reason you can't run [[Crashing Foothills]] in like non-green

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/160/crashing-footfalls

Crashing Footfalls

Sorcery
Suspend 4— (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay and exile it with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.)
Create two 4/4 green Rhino creature tokens with trample.

[twilit canyon]

yea we got there anyways

[golden plover]

Oh chat didn't update for me lmao

[twilit canyon]

mentioned that its silly and most ppl dont really care

but if u wanna avoid that one guy thats this emote 🤓

then just play mirrex

[bronze bronze]

the issue with mirrex is that it would make me play poison counters, and i dont wanna do that

[golden plover]

Most people wouldn't care, but it is illegal and I'm sure someone would say something

[bronze bronze]

i dont generally play to win, i play to have fun

[twilit canyon]

issue?

oh

[golden plover]

Realistically, poison isn't even that good in EDH

[twilit canyon]

fair ig

but they really arent that good and it's a 1 of

[golden plover]

You'll sometimes win off like a blightsteel ig

But poison is really hated for no reason

People see it and get mad

[twilit canyon]

cus a ton of ppl dont run interaction

[golden plover]

True

I knew a guy with an Atraxa poison proliferate deck

[twilit canyon]

no interaction = poison will be more threatening

[golden plover]

Which wasn't that good

But it wasn't allowed at the casual tables because poison

And it was too weak for cedh

[bronze bronze]

[[field of the dead]] might work

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m20/247/field-of-the-dead

Field of the Dead

Land
Field of the Dead enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add .
Whenever Field of the Dead or another land enters the battlefield under your control, if you control seven or more lands with different names, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.

[twilit canyon]

this is a way more broken card than mirrex

it is fun to use though

[golden plover]

Field is also like $40

[bronze bronze]

the issue is 7 or more lands with different names, but it's possible

[golden plover]

But for field to shine, you really wanna be on a ramp strategy

[bronze bronze]

i play digitally

[twilit canyon]

thats actually insanely trivial in commander

[golden plover]

Ah fair, I just wanted to make sure since it's a big price difference in paper

In Naya, you do probably have the ramp options to really benefit from field

[twilit canyon]

because you have too many choices with different names unless you intentionally play a ton of basics without any snow basics and no duals

[trail anvil]

https://www.ign.com/articles/magic-the-gathering-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-secret-lair-spoilers now that's a product

[glad peak]

wait field is $40 now? bruh

[stark skiff]

i mean it is old and has had like no reprints outside of sld or a special guest

[glad peak]

it's old?

i'm old

[stark skiff]

i mean its like 5 years old now

[glad peak]

oof

[trail anvil]

you do run it in every landfall deck ever

and non-landfall decks too if you want

[glad peak]

yeah i still remember the oko uro field hour of promise deck in pioneer

[golden plover]

I remember watching field get banned in every format

Good times watching it take ban after ban

[steady onyx]

help

misty said my deck is ass

i wanted to play shadowheart

[sleek ferry]

She’s probably correct

[steady onyx]

and this looked fine

fun

the loop is big things with haste that do 5 damage

triggers dragon

[sleek ferry]

Oh for commander? You can bring anything

[steady onyx]

than sac with shadowheart

for draw 5+

and than u get a 4/4 dragon on end step

[sleek ferry]

I would just net deck a deck and adjust it to your liking

[steady onyx]

this was net decked

i know legit nothing about ma go c

[twilit canyon]

even for commander this looks very mid

[steady onyx]

magic

i just wanted a cool deck

[twilit canyon]

you're gonna have a tough time if u dont even know the rules

[sleek ferry]

He wanted the deck, just because it’s a bg3 character

[twilit canyon]

download mtga right now

get through the tutorial

[steady onyx]

for irl play

i’ve played the tutorial of mtg

oh no

i play mtg

but i know jack sh it about deck building

[sleek ferry]

Play with the starter decks in mtga and get to at least gold

[twilit canyon]

dont worry most ppl dont either

[sleek ferry]

And then screenshot it

[twilit canyon]

this isnt ygo

deckbuilding is significantly harder

[gritty nest]

~~just run 60 basics ~~

[twilit canyon]

first, what is your budget for the deck

[glad peak]

Start playing 60 card formats, deckbuilding is much easier and you’ll have a better time

[steady onyx]

idk

[twilit canyon]

are you spending 500? 1k?

[steady onyx]

idc

[twilit canyon]

less? more?

[steady onyx]

i was thinking 2-300$?

idk

[twilit canyon]

sure

[sleek ferry]

That’s not a horrible budget

[twilit canyon]

and your shadowheart simping

what is your secondary color

[steady onyx]

i legit don’t care

[twilit canyon]

blue, white, red, or green?

[steady onyx]

just whatever’s gonna be fine

i like dimir

but i’m open to anything else

[twilit canyon]

okay cool

blue it is

[steady onyx]

i just have played a lot of dimir

with urza and ninjas

or urza is kinda dimir

ig

[twilit canyon]

urza is mono blue

[steady onyx]

no?

he’s blue white black

[sleek ferry]

Urza has a dimircard?

[glad peak]

Do white and play her as stax

[twilit canyon]

urza has an esper card for commander right

the bad urza

[glad peak]

Probably the best way to go about it

[steady onyx]

idk mabye

[sleek ferry]

Does it?

[twilit canyon]

yea

[steady onyx]

i run the high artificer in the deck

[twilit canyon]

ren liked that one too

[steady onyx]

but he’s not my commander

[sleek ferry]

Oh ren deck

Must be bad

[steady onyx]

but yeah color idea

idrc

[twilit canyon]

blue/black is fine

[steady onyx]

whatever isn’t bad ig

ok

[glad peak]

The esper urza I remembered had a couple cute interactions but not great for 4 player

[steady onyx]

what’s the blue background

or does it not matter

[sleek ferry]

What blue backgrounds are there even

[steady onyx]

do you just take background for colour?

[sleek ferry]

Only background I legitly know is the white one everybody plays

[twilit canyon]

yes you need to

for shadowhearr

you can do no background and be in mono black

[glad peak]

Feywild visiter probably is the best in this case?

[twilit canyon]

or a black background

[glad peak]

Not great but you can at least play blue and get a body sometimes

[steady onyx]

chartalin seems ok?

oh mabye not

i’ll just shut up and let u guys help

[twilit canyon]

no

it depends on what u want the deck to do

[steady onyx]

well hmm

i like the card draw aspect but ig regen can be cool

[glad peak]

Charlatan isn’t great since you’d be erasing shadowheart

[steady onyx]

oh shit

i thought it just made a copy

reading

[glad peak]

Actually yeah why did they make a background that essentially just says “yeah your commander is something else now”

[steady onyx]

hmm i personally am not a super fan of spamming shit

my urza deck does that

and I wanna try smt different

[sleek ferry]

Feywild visitor does look the best

[steady onyx]

she is not a commander for voltron tho

[glad peak]

You’re not going to be spamming anything here, you’re probably gonna just play the blue black draw engines that also fly (like the one oona’s attendant or whatever it was called) and sac them when they’re about to die

[twilit canyon]

alright i got on my computer time to actually read the cards

[steady onyx]

so this gets u a lot of advantage

hmm

i seee

[sleek ferry]

The actually argument is actually that feywild visitor seems the least bad

[steady onyx]

no

hurst the blue black

[glad peak]

?

[steady onyx]

u said a lot of draw power in blue black

[twilit canyon]

okay so shadowheart wants to eat things to draw

[steady onyx]

yeah

[glad peak]

You need a blue background to play blue black

[steady onyx]

yeah

[glad peak]

And feywild is the least bad of that

Since she can somewhat still use the tokens to draw cards

[steady onyx]

are there better backgrounds for other colors that I would want to look into

i’m not like i def wanna play blue black

[twilit canyon]

[[feywild visitor]] has some good application here

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/70/feywild-visitor

Feywild Visitor <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "Whenever one or more nontoken creatures you control deal combat damage to a player, you create a 1/1 blue Faerie Dragon creature token with flying."
Fey energy clings to you, a shimmering reminder of your otherworldly travels.

[twilit canyon]

as thugs said

[steady onyx]

yeah

[twilit canyon]

but i dont like it

[steady onyx]

doesn’t green black do revive

and since she’s sacking

u can just bring back what u sack?

would that be smt to look into

[glad peak]

Inspiring leader is actually very cute

[steady onyx]

is master chef worth looking into

it makes stuff bigger for more card draw

if we want to step away from blue

[twilit canyon]

if you want to be in blue, you can do [[dungeon delver]]

[steady onyx]

there are a lot of layers here omg

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/67/dungeon-delver

Dungeon Delver <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "Room abilities of dungeons you own trigger an additional time."
You're driven not by a lust for gold or baubles, but by the thrill of danger and the excitement of the unknown.

[steady onyx]

sorry

what’s dungeon?

that’s something i don’t know about

[twilit canyon]

its a mechanic that some cards trigger that send you into a dungeon

[steady onyx]

is it like a saga?

[twilit canyon]

yes

[steady onyx]

ahhh ok

makes sense

[twilit canyon]

expect the dungeon is something you cant remove or anything

you pick one of a set

[steady onyx]

ooh

that seems cool

are they good?

[twilit canyon]

decent

[glad peak]

Inspiring leader and master chef work in white or green but you said you didn’t want another creature spam deck

[twilit canyon]

nothing insane

[steady onyx]

oh yeah fair enough

[twilit canyon]

and yeah, inspiring leader and master chef are both solid

[steady onyx]

so mabye we go the dungeon route

[twilit canyon]

but you are going to be in creature spam territory

dungeons is a solid choice

lets go with that

[glad peak]

Idk about the dungeon route, shadowheart doesn’t really care about dungeons at all

[twilit canyon]

dungeons can produce some big creatures if you focus around it

[glad peak]

And creatures that venture into the dungeon tend to be small so shadowheart saccing them gives tiny draw

[twilit canyon]

doesnt has to be the best deck

[glad peak]

Unless I’m forgetting some cards

[sleek ferry]

Dungeon also gives you the option for Timmy plays which Areo would probably enjoy

[glad peak]

Sure but playing a value pile might be more interesting than forcing dungeons

[twilit canyon]

[[street urchin]] is a possible one since its kinda cute

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/197/street-urchin

Street Urchin <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have ", Sacrifice another creature or an artifact: This creature deals 1 damage to any target."
Your harsh upbringing on the streets of the city left you crafty, resilient, and wise beyond your years.

[twilit canyon]

but ultimately, i think doing dungeons is going to be more for fun than anything

[steady onyx]

ok

than let’s go dungeon delve

[twilit canyon]

which is fine since areo isnt going hardcore into going for a super competitive deck

[steady onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/delicious-in-dungeon-dungeon-meshi-dungeon-meshi-fall-anime-fall-anime-faceplant-gif-4678289543903157915

[sleek ferry]

Like I said, the timmier the better for Areo

[steady onyx]

i might play at casual commander as well as with my friends

would it be fine for that

at locals

[twilit canyon]

yes

[glad peak]

Since blue black gives you access to nymris and talion which are great draw options that you can sac

Might be fine, the cap for a dungeon deck is pretty low so it might be frustrating to find good games at times

Idk that’s what one of my friend’s experiences was and he played the dungeon partner duo

[twilit canyon]

if this is for casual im def not putting in talion or nymris

[steady onyx]

awww

[glad peak]

Having a big hand is fun tho

[steady onyx]

talion seemed cool

[sleek ferry]

I mean you could not as if Areo is going to know how to use them

[steady onyx]

ok whatever what would u do next

we have commander and background we have our deck like idea

do u do mana base?

or win con?

or ramp?

[twilit canyon]

wincon would be dungeoning

[glad peak]

What ramp

[twilit canyon]

blue/black ramp is purely in artifacts

[steady onyx]

do u not play ramp?

[twilit canyon]

which is fine

[steady onyx]

oh ok

hey that’s all the ramp i have in urza

[glad peak]

For manabase, it’s fine to just do a bunch of enters tapped 2 color lands

For the purpose of this deck at least

[steady onyx]

ok

[twilit canyon]

yea

im building the deck rn

[steady onyx]

oh ok

[twilit canyon]

gimme a sec

[steady onyx]

imma brb and watch a. youtube video on dungeons to understand them
a bit more since it’s the core mechanic

[glad peak]

For amount of mana, it depends mostly on mana costs but let’s ignore that for now and do something like 40 mana pieces?

Aka lands + rocks

[twilit canyon]

yeah i was thinking 40-42

[steady onyx]

sorry are there still only 3 dungeons

or are there more dungeons now

[twilit canyon]

theres 3 and the undercity

[steady onyx]

ok

[twilit canyon]

undercity can only be entered by taking the initiative

but im keeping that in mind as well

since its kinda free

[steady onyx]

ok

oh i see how the deck works

some dungeon have strong abilities and triggering them twice is really strong

and than u just play shit that will venture into the dungeon

the big skill part of the deck to me seems basically what dungeon do I want to use

and that’s what imma have to get used to

[rigid scarab]

This guy got oracle'd into an octopus??

[fallow citrus]

that is what happened

[twilit canyon]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/P3TFw-z61UqnpdWbBQK_rw

@steady onyx

here you go

kept it at 200

[steady onyx]

thank u <3

[twilit canyon]

most of the lands arent gonna be shit

the whole deck is also pretty smooth in the way it wants to play

you wanna play your creatures and have them enter the battlefield, and if they die, you can reanimate them

if they dont die, you flicker them

with cards like [[ghostly flicker]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/98/ghostly-flicker

Ghostly Flicker <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Exile two target artifacts, creatures, and/or lands you control, then return those cards to the battlefield under your control.
Sometimes it's useful to take a break from existence.

[twilit canyon]

then abusing dungeon delver and cards like [[virtue of knowledge]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/76/virtue-of-knowledge-vantress-visions

Virtue of Knowledge <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manau:292901508754702338>

Enchantment
If a permanent entering the battlefield causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger, that ability triggers an additional time.

Vantress Visions
Instant — Adventure
Copy target activated or triggered ability you control. You may choose new targets for the copy.

[twilit canyon]

so you can double up on initiative and venture

that way you can complete dungeons fast

your wincon as a result will be to complete every dungeon except for tomb of annihilation

[steady onyx]

ha that’s really funny

wait why

[twilit canyon]

this way, you can keep casting acererak

and it will keep entering and bouncing back to hand

in and out

and every time he does so, you venture

whenever you are ready, you can also complete it so that he can attack

though its not as recommended

[steady onyx]

that’s funny

[twilit canyon]

you just keep using acererack to rack up ventures

[steady onyx]

and with the enchantment u double trigger

[steady onyx]

ok 2 questions

is a dungeon a permanent

[twilit canyon]

nope

[steady onyx]

awww

but venturing is a triggered ability

[twilit canyon]

you can find and buy a dungeon card

[twilit canyon]

yep

[steady onyx]

i see ok

[twilit canyon]

[[displacer beast]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/afr/54/displacer-beast

Displacer Beast <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Cat Beast
When Displacer Beast enters the battlefield, venture into the dungeon. (Enter the first room or advance to the next room.)
Displacement — : Return Displacer Beast to its owner's hand.
The only place you can be sure it's not is wherever it appears to be.
3/2

[twilit canyon]

for example

enters the battlefield (trigger), venture into the dungeon

[steady onyx]

yes

i see

[twilit canyon]

you want dungeon delver in play before shadowheart

[steady onyx]

ok

yeah makes sense

shadowheart just the easy accessible draw engine for the deck

[twilit canyon]

ultimately, you are using shadowheart in this deck to sacrifice things to revive them with cards like [[chthonian nightmare]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/83/chthonian-nightmare

Chthonian Nightmare <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment
When Chthonian Nightmare enters the battlefield, you get (three energy counters).
Pay X , Sacrifice a creature, Return Chthonian Nightmare to its owner's hand: Return target creature card with mana value X from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.

[twilit canyon]

or [[victimize]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/278/victimize

Victimize <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Choose two target creature cards in your graveyard. Sacrifice a creature. If you do, return the chosen cards to the battlefield tapped.
"Die. But die knowing that your pathetic life will yield a great bounty for me." —Zul Ashur, lich lord

[steady onyx]

one more question

what’s initiaave

initiviate

words lmao

[twilit canyon]

initiative

is the same as venturing into the dungeon

except

[steady onyx]

oh ok

[twilit canyon]

you instead go into the underdark

*undercity

sorry

[steady onyx]

ok

[twilit canyon]

keep in mind:

[steady onyx]

but once i’m in under city

can i venture as normal

[twilit canyon]

you complete it

yep

and venturing or taking the initiative will progress through any dungeon

as normal

[steady onyx]

alright

i assume there’s no db for commander to test online while I get the cards?

[twilit canyon]

if you venture first, you can choose to go into the dungeon of the mad mage or lost mines of phandelver or tomb of annihilation

[steady onyx]

yes

[twilit canyon]

you can test on moxfield

[twilit canyon]

if you take the initiative first, you will go into the undercity

unrelated good cards: psychic frog

hes just a little guy

but he can put creatures in the grave from your hand

and he draws cards if he hits someone

brazen borrower

just all around quality creature that has a bounce spell and a strong body

murderous rider

same but he kills things

forsaken miner is good to kill

[steady onyx]

yeah

[twilit canyon]

liliana, heretical healer cares about your creatures dying

and gets value from flipping and makes more bodies

[steady onyx]

one last question

[twilit canyon]

body launderer same deal

[steady onyx]

do i have initiate untill i complete undercut

for this

for example

[twilit canyon]

you have initiative forever until you get attacked and dealt damage

[steady onyx]

oh

ooooo ok understood

[twilit canyon]

once you take the initiative, you have to work to keep it

but that shouldnt be as much an issue for this deck

theres quite a lot of interaction

[steady onyx]

ok

i like that

it’s like yugioh

!!!

all the interaction

[twilit canyon]

another unrelated but good card

jace, vryn's prodigy

cycles through and draws cards

late game can recover a valueable instant/sorcery

[steady onyx]

ok

is there a specific win con?

[twilit canyon]

yeah

venturing

[steady onyx]

and just spamming the dungeons ok

[twilit canyon]

dungeon of the mda mage draws 3 cards and you may cast one without paying its mana cost

phandelver has a mode that says "each opponent loses 1 life, and you gain 1 life"

if you are spamming dungeons a lot, you are draining them of their life a lot

undercity can make a player lose 5 life

[[rilsa rael, kingpin]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/293/rilsa-rael-kingpin

Rilsa Rael, Kingpin <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
Deathtouch
When Rilsa Rael, Kingpin enters the battlefield, you take the initiative.
Whenever you attack, target attacking creature gains deathtouch until end of turn. If you've completed a dungeon, that creature also gets +5/+0 and gains first strike and menace until end of turn.
2/5

[twilit canyon]

+5 and first strike is a lot of power

[[ravenloft adventurer]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/142/ravenloft-adventurer

Ravenloft Adventurer <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Human Rogue Assassin
When Ravenloft Adventurer enters the battlefield, you take the initiative.
If a creature an opponent controls would die, instead exile it and put a hit counter on it.
Whenever Ravenloft Adventurer attacks, if you've completed a dungeon, defending player loses 1 life for each card they own in exile with a hit counter on it.
3/4

[twilit canyon]

serves as both grave hate and it also helps to win the game

[[acererak the archlich]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/afr/87/acererak-the-archlich

Acererak the Archlich <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Zombie Wizard
When Acererak the Archlich enters the battlefield, if you haven't completed Tomb of Annihilation, return Acererak the Archlich to its owner's hand and venture into the dungeon.
Whenever Acererak the Archlich attacks, for each opponent, you create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token unless that player sacrifices a creature.
5/5

[twilit canyon]

is no joke when attacking

[[jace, telepath unbound]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ori/60/jace-vryns-prodigy-jace-telepath-unbound

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
: Draw a card, then discard a card. If there are five or more cards in your graveyard, exile Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, then return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control.
"People's thoughts just come to me. Sometimes I don't know if it's them or me thinking."
0/2

Jace, Telepath Unbound
Legendary Planeswalker — Jace
+1: Up to one target creature gets -2/-0 until your next turn.
−3: You may cast target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard this turn. If that spell would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead.
−9: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell, target opponent mills five cards."
Loyalty: 5

[twilit canyon]

that -9 can also win you the game in some situatons

as can [[liliana, defiant necromancer]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cc2/1/liliana-heretical-healer-liliana-defiant-necromancer

Liliana, Heretical Healer <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Lifelink
Whenever another nontoken creature you control dies, exile Liliana, Heretical Healer, then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner's control. If you do, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
2/3

Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
Legendary Planeswalker — Liliana
+2: Each player discards a card.
−X: Return target nonlegendary creature card with mana value X from your graveyard to the battlefield.
−8: You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature dies, return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step."
Loyalty: 3

[twilit canyon]

her -8 ends the game more or less

if you rack up enough mana, [[profane command]] can close a game out

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/256/profane-command

Profane Command <:manax:292901509082120202><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Choose two —
• Target player loses X life.
• Return target creature card with mana value X or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
• Target creature gets -X/-X until end of turn.
• Up to X target creatures gain fear until end of turn. (They can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.)

[steady onyx]

ok ok

and one last question about double sided cards

[twilit canyon]

you are winning through creature damage and life drain

[steady onyx]

do I choose when I draw

or when I play

like for the mana / instants

[twilit canyon]

when you draw?

it depends on the card

[steady onyx]

like when I draw the card

[twilit canyon]

for liliana and jace no

they start as their creature form

[steady onyx]

well those u have to transform yeah

but like the land / instants

[twilit canyon]

but for [[glasspool mimic]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/znr/60/glasspool-mimic-glasspool-shore

Glasspool Mimic <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Shapeshifter Rogue
You may have Glasspool Mimic enter the battlefield as a copy of a creature you control, except it's a Shapeshifter Rogue in addition to its other types.
"When I touched the Glasspool, I tasted infinite possibility." —Ashen Wal, Akoum Expeditionary House
0/0

Glasspool Shore
Land
Glasspool Shore enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add .
"Past and possibility come together in the vastness of infinite reflection." —Ashen Wal, Akoum Expeditionary House

[twilit canyon]

you can play it as either the creature

or as the land

at any point

[steady onyx]

ok

i see

[twilit canyon]

you have to decide when you play it however

adventure creatures are unique

you will want to cast them as their adventure portion first

because they get exiled and you can cast their creature form from exile

[steady onyx]

like this one

[twilit canyon]

yep

[steady onyx]

u adventure

[twilit canyon]

keep in mind, the adventure is its own spell

[steady onyx]

yeah

but being an adventure

it exiles itself

[twilit canyon]

yep

[steady onyx]

than can be cast as the creature

ok ok

[twilit canyon]

how it reads

after the text on the adventure

[steady onyx]

also creature getting sacced and creature dying are different? or same thing example for lilliana

[twilit canyon]

they are the same

[steady onyx]

ooooh

that’s nice ok

[twilit canyon]

oh okay actually

hold on before you buy anything

i forgot you can take backgrounds and put them in the main deck

alright i removed 2 mid mana rocks and put in 2 more enchantment backgrounds

[[scion of halaster]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/145/scion-of-halaster

Scion of Halaster <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "The first time you would draw a card each turn, instead look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your graveyard and the other back on top of your library. Then draw a card."
Most see the Mad Mage as a deranged menace, but you recognize the genius behind his paranoia.

[twilit canyon]

and [[agent of the iron throne]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/107/agent-of-the-iron-throne

Agent of the Iron Throne <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "Whenever an artifact or creature you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, each opponent loses 1 life."
You give your clients what they want at a fair price. What happens after that is none of your concern.

[steady onyx]

is the online deck list updated?

[twilit canyon]

should be now

[steady onyx]

ok

i’m not getting anything untill tmr anyways

imma bike to ots

buy what they have

than proxy the rest for camp and order the rest so when I get back i have the full thing

[twilit canyon]

if you wanna spend more money on the deck or are fine doing proxies, i'd recommend improving the mana base and improving some interaction spells

notable upgrades would be [[mana drain]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain

Mana Drain <:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Counter target spell. At the beginning of your next main phase, add an amount of equal to that spell's mana value.
Enthusiasm is no match for preparation.

[twilit canyon]

a full fetchland mana base

[[ancient tomb]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/uma/236/ancient-tomb

Ancient Tomb

Land
: Add . Ancient Tomb deals 2 damage to you.
There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead. —Vec tomb inscription

[steady onyx]

this is not insane?

[twilit canyon]

it is but its also like

[steady onyx]

what