Magic the Gathering

[sleek ferry]

that's a fact

When I first got into mtg I was the same, getting excited at the most mid cards

[twilit canyon]

u still do 💀

[sleek ferry]

liquimetal torque is goated

shush

[twilit canyon]

its fine overall ppl have bad card eval and even good players miss all the time

[golden plover]

True, especially with UB stuff

A lot of people who don't really care for magic are gonna go "Oh they put Cloud on a card? I gotta buy that"

[twilit canyon]

what i meant is ppl who just see "oooh dr who!" or ooooh ass creed!" and the crowd that will eventually drool for the marvel cards

[sleek ferry]

yeah like how people missed with Ledger Shredder

[golden plover]

Yeah pretty much

Although I'm willing to bet marvel is gonna do worse than they thought

Not because "UB bad" or anything

[modern minnow]

still think the funniest prerelease miss was still mirkwood bats

[golden plover]

But because it's past the peak of marvel

[twilit canyon]

yeah i wouldnt be suprised if it fails much

[sleek ferry]

even commander players dropped the ball on displacer kitten on reveal

[golden plover]

Oh my God I forgot about Murkwood Bats

[twilit canyon]

idk how tbh

ig when ur not tuned into cedh its easy to ignore

[golden plover]

Also enfranchised players aren't gonna be too excited to see Iron Man and other superheroes in MTG

[sleek ferry]

Commander players have the weirdest card evaluation tbh

[golden plover]

It's way more tonally inconsistent than like elves and orcs and things MTG already has

[modern minnow]

its good with dockside

[twilit canyon]

we're commander players, of course we have shit threat eval

[golden plover]

So I'd be willing to wager that the Marvel set is gonna do worse than expected

[twilit canyon]

40k is almost entirely mirroring mtg's aesthetic and even then it has ppl in a twist about it

[golden plover]

I'm also calling it now that unless Ass Creed is SUPER pushed, it's gonna be a dud

[twilit canyon]

the further u go like with marvel, the worse itll show up

[sleek ferry]

Ass Creed should definitely be ass

[golden plover]

I mean, assassin's creed is tonally a mess to put into MTG

[lusty trench]

I just realised I paid £50 to play a sealed format with ulamog in it

[twilit canyon]

i have no idea how they market ac since its a franchise past its peak too

[lusty trench]

[golden plover]

And I dunno how many strictly assassin's creed fans there are

[sleek ferry]

aesthetically it's like fine-ish ig

[modern minnow]

beyond boosters too lol

[twilit canyon]

maybe they lean into the recent ac game since it sold pretty well

[sleek ferry]

but like yeah, who the hell even gets hyped about Ass Creed in 2024

[lusty trench]

Hopefully he doesn't come up cause if he does my ass is never going to be able to remove him

[golden plover]

How the fuck is real actual historical humans and real world locations fine for the magic world lmao?

[twilit canyon]

just another plane in the multiverse

[sleek ferry]

exactly

[golden plover]

Like "Imma cast George Washington" is a fucked up statement

[twilit canyon]

its really not as big a deal imo

way closer to mtg than marvel

[golden plover]

It's tonally super weird ngl

[sleek ferry]

Marvel aesthetically is 100x worse of a nightmare than ass creed

[golden plover]

But yeah, beyond boosters too

[lusty trench]

One could argue saying "I cast Sheldon menery" is stranger

Or bob

[golden plover]

This set is bound to fail

[sleek ferry]

not as fucked up as "I will cast optimus prime"

[golden plover]

Unless it's super powercrept for modern

[twilit canyon]

or any of the doctors

[lusty trench]

Richard Garfield straight up is a magic character

He's un set but he is there

[golden plover]

Oh there's plenty of UB stuff that doesn't fit the tone at all ngl

[twilit canyon]

and i think ac isnt as egregious as others

[golden plover]

40k, LoTR, and probably Final Fantasy are honestly the only ones that do

[copper pecan]

what is "the tone" though

mtg has has all sorts of silly stuff in it

[golden plover]

Walking Dead, Fallout, Dr Who, and Ass Creed are all super jarring

[twilit canyon]

it is just a vibe checm

*check

[golden plover]

And Marvel is gonna be mega jarring

Yeah it really is just kinda vibes, but the game has been high fantasy with elements of other genres for almost 30 years

[lusty trench]

So called free thinkers when a miles morales spider verse card comes out

[sleek ferry]

I got to see what the FF set is going to look like before passing judgment. If it's drawn like KH style it's more of a vibe I fuck with than the current 3D models of them

[copper pecan]

the game is barely ever high fantasy

[twilit canyon]

high fantasy goes out the roof every like 2-3 years

[copper pecan]

outside of specifically dominaria and eldraine it's pretty much never high fantasy

[golden plover]

So having the stranger things kids and real people like Da Vinci show up is very different from stuff like Legolas

[twilit canyon]

even outside of urza and shit

esper is extremely high tech

[golden plover]

Do remember that it was ONLY dominara for 10 years

[twilit canyon]

same as kaladesh

[copper pecan]

so? that stopped being the case 20 years ago

[golden plover]

But even the more high tech settings, up until recently, were still very fantasy-slanted

[twilit canyon]

i disagree

greatly

urza was running around with power armor and space ships and mechs that put 40k early tech to shame

[golden plover]

Like Esper had people making big machines that were gonna be used for big spells and Izzet had robot dragons

Brother's War stuff was kinda an exception too, since it wasn't really acknowledged for like 15 years after

It's only recently (about Kaladesh) that other forms of tech get seen again

[lusty trench]

Me when I show Leonardo da Vinci an Ork flying machine (it physically should only be able to fly for about 2 minutes before violently exploding but this Ork has routinely hit it with a hammer so it's fine)

[golden plover]

Like if in Eldritch Moon, someone made a chainsaw, it would have been really weird

[twilit canyon]

didnt we have a chainsaw

[golden plover]

But it's more whatever now and there's a chainsaw card in VOW? Hunt?

That was the point, yeah

One of those sets had one, but it's only a more recent move

[twilit canyon]

it wasnt that weird. its horror aesthetic and the tech on innistrad is way more advanced

[sleek ferry]

chainsaw? Tatsuki Fujimoto reference

[twilit canyon]

they have running electricty

[golden plover]

Do they?

[lusty trench]

One chainsaw milord

[twilit canyon]

look at ludevic's lab

[copper pecan]

if skaabs can be a thing on innistrad then i don't know why chainsaws would be out of the question

[twilit canyon]

and a ton of their streets

[golden plover]

Tone has always been sorta all over the place yeah, but I think it really does come down to vibes for what UB stuff feels weird and what doesn't

[twilit canyon]

and the zombie creation process from geralf

[golden plover]

Like if they announced UB call of duty tomorrow, that'd be weird

[lusty trench]

A reminder chainsaws originally an invention for C sections

[sleek ferry]

I mean yeah, but your vibes seem to be way different than our vibes pope

[lusty trench]

Innistrad would be all about that

[golden plover]

Technically we've already seen planes with higher tech than COD and it's a series about dudes fighting

[twilit canyon]

actually it was originally invented to erase the shooting star that broke the minds of children

[lusty trench]

I don't get this reference if it is one

[golden plover]

There was something in here about how marvel and ass creed were gonna be not great sellers because of the average tone an enfranchised player has in mind, but it's long off the rails

[lusty trench]

[twilit canyon]

then ur dumb for not reading chainsaw man

[sleek ferry]

mtg could announce a How I met Your Mother secret lair tomorrow, and I could kinda see it working

[lusty trench]

Listen I finished part 1 I'm waiting to read part 2 with my partner

[golden plover]

My point wasn't UB bad, it was moreso that certain franchises mesh better than others

[lusty trench]

I don't remember a huge amount of part 1 either

[twilit canyon]

????

okay that explains why u didnt get it

[golden plover]

But yeah, calling it now in like 4 months we'll have a blogatog post of "Assassin's Creed was the worst numbers we've seen on a Universes Beyond product" and something about Beyond Boosters or the franchise being the reason

[copper pecan]

what enfranchised players like doesn't really matter for whether or not these sets sell well. enfranchised players aren't the target audience for these

[golden plover]

I don't think Marvel is gonna bomb as hard as AC, but we definitely missed the peak for Marvel to be as impactful as it could have been

[copper pecan]

i seriously doubt that marvel is going to sell badly

[golden plover]

It's not gonna sell badly, but I think it'll do worse than LOTR

I think it won't sell insanely well either

[copper pecan]

well yeah that's an extremely high bar to clear

[golden plover]

It'll probably be fallout/Dr who tier where you can find the commander decks decently discounted now

Because peak MCU hype is over

Funny how the 40k ones are almost still retail price, but the fallout ones aren't doing super hot

Tbh, 40k also had stronger new cards and reprints tho

[copper pecan]

yo wait hold up we just got a new historic banlist

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-june-3-2024

HISTORIC BANS
Harbinger of the Seas
Winter Moon
Endurance
Fury
Grief
Subtlety
Solitude
Flare of Fortitude
Flare of Denial
Flare of Malice
Flare of Duplication
Flare of Cultivation
All the fetchlands
BRAWL BANS
Disruptor Flute

[golden plover]

Damn, tons of prebans

The elementals make sense, but why didn't they let the flares at least get tested

[copper pecan]

them banning the flares and the pitch elementals makes sense given that they said they don't want free spells in historic

[golden plover]

The flares aren't really free like the others tbh

Sure they're still free, but saccing a non-token creature is a much bigger upfront cost

[copper pecan]

it's not that much bigger

[sleek ferry]

I can't comment on historic's balance, so I won't. But all these bans seem very reasonable

[[harbinger of the seas]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/63/harbinger-of-the-seas

Harbinger of the Seas <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Merfolk Wizard
Nonbasic lands are Islands.
The rising moon calls mercilessly to the waves, commanding the sea to rise high enough to devour mountains.
2/2

[twilit canyon]

all reasonable yup

only thing i worry for historic is ugin's lab

[golden plover]

Oh shit lab wasn't on that list

[twilit canyon]

sol lands are a powerful thing to have

[lusty trench]

I'm assuming they think it's cost is enough to balance it

[twilit canyon]

and im willing to bet they are wrong in thinking that

but we will see

[golden plover]

Honestly card is probably gonna be crazy everywhere it's legal

Historic is the least powerful format it's in, yeah?

[twilit canyon]

yea

[golden plover]

No way it's not a problem here

(And maybe modern?)

I've seen talk of it being a problem in Legacy

[twilit canyon]

well yes for legacy it makes sense

thats now 12 sol lands

[golden plover]

Yeah true

I dunno if modern can find a home for it

But there's no way it doesn't break something in historic

[twilit canyon]

eldrazi and affinity

[golden plover]

If nothing else, there's the prototype guys from BRO in the format

Did [[Breech the Multiverse]] see historic play?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/94/breach-the-multiverse

Breach the Multiverse <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Each player mills ten cards. For each player, choose a creature or planeswalker card in that player's graveyard. Put those cards onto the battlefield under your control. Then each creature you control becomes a Phyrexian in addition to its other types.
"All worlds will know perfection." —Elesh Norn

[twilit canyon]

not much

[golden plover]

That's also over 7 CMC

[twilit canyon]

pause

its 7 mv yes

but

its not colorless

[[ugins lab]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/233/ugins-labyrinth

Ugin's Labyrinth

Land
Imprint — When Ugin's Labyrinth enters the battlefield, you may exile a colorless card with mana value 7 or greater from your hand.
: Add . If a card is exiled with Ugin's Labyrinth, add instead.
: Return the exiled card to its owner's hand.

[lusty trench]

Me when I get a sol land for the price of playing a filter land turn 1 (I love planar nexus, activate my urza lands earlier yeeeeeees)

[twilit canyon]

colorless

[golden plover]

Oh colorless only

Prototype guys are still valid options

[twilit canyon]

mhm

[sleek ferry]

From the current pool there’s uh cityscape leveler

What else

[lusty trench]

Frog on my myr till I labyrinth

[twilit canyon]

theres a ton of good cards that it fits under

devourer is one

pre-game effect

[golden plover]

Interestingly [[Emeria's Call]] is technically a valid option too

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/znr/12/emerias-call-emeria-shattered-skyclave

Emeria's Call <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Sorcery
Create two 4/4 white Angel Warrior creature tokens with flying. Non-Angel creatures you control gain indestructible until your next turn.
"Iona no longer guards this place. We do." —Kasla, Emeria shepherd

Emeria, Shattered Skyclave
Land
As Emeria, Shattered Skyclave enters the battlefield, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add .
"You called it the castle of a god. It is less than that, and so much more." —Kasla, Emeria shepherd

[twilit canyon]

and it pitches to lab

nop

emeria's is white

only becomes colorless as a land in play

[lusty trench]

It's cause Emerias call is the front right?

[golden plover]

Scryfall read it as one card, whoops

[twilit canyon]

yup

[golden plover]

[[Metalwork Automaton]] is a card that saw play in pioneer affinity

[twilit canyon]

and if it was flipped, it wouldnt be mv 7

[lost widget]

No card found for “Metalwork Automaton”

[lusty trench]

I'm learnding

[golden plover]

[[Metalwork Colossus]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/960/metalwork-colossus

Metalwork Colossus <:mana11:292901508838850570>

Artifact Creature — Construct
This spell costs less to cast, where X is the total mana value of noncreature artifacts you control.
Sacrifice two artifacts: Return Metalwork Colossus from your graveyard to your hand.
10/10

[twilit canyon]

[[myr enforcer]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/224/myr-enforcer

Myr Enforcer <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Myr
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
Most myr monitor other species. Some myr monitor other myr.
4/4

[golden plover]

Yeah both are good options

[twilit canyon]

the axolotl too

[[steel seraph]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/bro/38/steel-seraph

Steel Seraph <:mana6:292901508780130304>

Artifact Creature — Angel
Prototype — 3/3 (You may cast this spell with different mana cost, color, and size. It keeps its abilities and types.)
Flying
At the beginning of combat on your turn, target creature you control gains your choice of flying, vigilance, or lifelink until end of turn.
5/4

[sleek ferry]

The artifact land cycler?

[twilit canyon]

[[phyrexian fleshgorger]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/bro/121/phyrexian-fleshgorger

Phyrexian Fleshgorger <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Phyrexian Wurm
Prototype — 3/3 (You may cast this spell with different mana cost, color, and size. It keeps its abilities and types.)
Menace, lifelink
Ward—Pay life equal to Phyrexian Fleshgorger's power.
7/5

[twilit canyon]

oh seraph is 6

[golden plover]

[[Gate Colossus]] for something with Gates

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/257/gate-colossus

Gate Colossus <:mana8:292901508830330880>

Artifact Creature — Construct
This spell costs less to cast for each Gate you control.
Gate Colossus can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less.
Whenever a Gate enters the battlefield under your control, you may put Gate Colossus from your graveyard on top of your library.
8/8

[golden plover]

All the gates are legal in historic, yeah?

[lusty trench]

[[frogmyr]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/120/frogmyr-enforcer

Frogmyr Enforcer <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Frog Myr
Prototype — 2/2 (You may cast this spell with different mana cost, color, and size. It keeps its abilities and types.)
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
Laws of nature on Mirrodin are always malleable.
4/4

[golden plover]

Including the baldurs gate ones

[twilit canyon]

yep

frogmyr will be nice too yes

[golden plover]

That's potentially something

[twilit canyon]

nah u dont want sol lands or colossus in gates

[golden plover]

Golos is still historic legal, right?

[sleek ferry]

[[sojourner’s companion]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/235/sojourners-companion

Sojourner's Companion <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Salamander
Affinity for artifacts
Artifact landcycling (, Discard this card: Search your library for an artifact land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.)
Before Phyrexia's corruption, many of Mirrodin's creatures were more curious than cruel.
4/4

[golden plover]

Not historic legal

[twilit canyon]

sadly not on arena

[golden plover]

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DC+(game%3Apaper+or+game%3Aarena)+cmc>%3D7+legal%3Ahistoric

[sleek ferry]

Ah that sucks

[golden plover]

Here's all the valid targets

Although this includes Emeria's Call and Sea Gate Restoration

Dunno how to filter out false positives

[twilit canyon]

mh3 brings a lot more targets too

nulldrifter, devourer, frogmyr

[golden plover]

True, this is just what's only currently on arena

[lusty trench]

Nulldrifter gonna be big

[copper pecan]

yeah i think nulldrifter and frog are probably the best historic targets for labyrinth

[golden plover]

I could see a historic affinity build working

Lots of affinity support in arena already

And mh3

[twilit canyon]

yeah

timeless im not super sure on

but its not unlikely

[golden plover]

Oh shit arena has [[Thought Monitor]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/121/thought-monitor

Thought Monitor <:mana6:292901508780130304><:manau:292901508754702338>

Artifact Creature — Construct
Affinity for artifacts
Flying
When Thought Monitor enters the battlefield, draw two cards.
It roams the skies over the Quicksilver Sea, alert for any hint of aberrant thought.
2/2

[twilit canyon]

yeah

no thoughtcast though

[golden plover]

I low-key love [[Tezzeret Master of the Bridge]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/war/275/tezzeret-master-of-the-bridge

Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Planeswalker — Tezzeret
Creature and planeswalker spells you cast have affinity for artifacts. (They cost less to cast for each artifact you control.)
+2: Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge deals X damage to each opponent, where X is the number of artifacts you control. You gain X life.
−3: Return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
−8: Exile the top ten cards of your library. Put all artifact cards from among them onto the battlefield.
Loyalty: 5

[golden plover]

But I figure he doesn't have a place there

[twilit canyon]

its just awkward

[golden plover]

Wish he was legal to be my commander, he'd be fun to play

[twilit canyon]

moreso affinity has like

no real way to ramp that hard

they cheat on mana other ways

[golden plover]

Although I'm not gonna rule 0 him, because he's only ever used for unfair things lmao

[twilit canyon]

ig with lab it shouldnt be super out there to get to 6

but then hes a dead card

[golden plover]

"Guys lemme rule 0 this Planeswalker who would be stupid as hell in the command zone"

"I'm only gonna play 40 artifacts in 1 turn and one-tap the whole table, he's fair"

[[Junk Winder]] is potentially okay

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/107/junk-winder

Junk Winder <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Serpent
Affinity for tokens (This spell costs less to cast for each token you control.)
Whenever a token enters the battlefield under your control, tap target nonland permanent an opponent controls. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
5/6

[golden plover]

I already mentioned [[Metalwork Colossus]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/960/metalwork-colossus

Metalwork Colossus <:mana11:292901508838850570>

Artifact Creature — Construct
This spell costs less to cast, where X is the total mana value of noncreature artifacts you control.
Sacrifice two artifacts: Return Metalwork Colossus from your graveyard to your hand.
10/10

[golden plover]

He's a decent top-end with sorta-affinity

Expanding to improvize gets you [[Metallic Rebuke]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/59/metallic-rebuke

Metallic Rebuke <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
"Too little, too late. The machine is in motion." —Tezzeret

[golden plover]

I guess [[Whirl of Invention]] too, but that's a bad card

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/aer/49/whir-of-invention

Whir of Invention <:manax:292901509082120202><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Search your library for an artifact card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.

[golden plover]

Maybe [[Maverick Thopterist]] and [[Barricade Breaker]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c18/185/maverick-thopterist

Maverick Thopterist <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Human Artificer
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
When Maverick Thopterist enters the battlefield, create two 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature tokens with flying.
2/2

https://scryfall.com/card/aer/144/barricade-breaker

Barricade Breaker <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Juggernaut
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Barricade Breaker attacks each combat if able.
"The Consulate sought to crush us. Let's give them a taste of their own medicine." —Venkat Dasai, renegade commander
7/5

[golden plover]

There's also Sai

And Emry

[trail anvil]

god this was a slog lmao

davriel is just removal tribal and they got 3 of his damn discount emblems

I just barely survived long enough with a food from golden goose on my upkeep to dodge lethal from sheoldred, then ulted war lili

[sudden lava]

Crispy blur leak for AC

[golden plover]

Emblems on a creature?

It's a bunch of hoops and kinda sucks, but that's funky design space

Not a fan

This whole set is custommagic as hell lmao

[glad peak]

Very odd card

Not sure why they didn’t randomly make it 5c like some others they did but that emblem is interesting

[zinc shard]

Oh is that Assassin's Creed?

[sleek ferry]

The GOAT https://youtu.be/akNf05kasyY?si=5lauZ2naw45-aEg7

[sudden lava]

yup

[copper pecan]

once again god gives his juciest leaks to his crustiest leakers

[copper pecan]

it's a 10 mana mythic rare, i seriously doubt this is going to be a recurring mechanic in the set

[granite badge]

the emblem feels like a wincon anyway

that doesn't lose if they hold spot removal til the last second

I think its fair unexplored design space

[lusty trench]

It feels fine, it's a fairly big ask and doesn't immediately win on the spot

[fallow citrus]

me when I put the leak near the elephant's foot

[trail anvil]

it's certainly a big card

[fallow citrus]

for you

[trail anvil]

sounds like a fun card for kethis

actually maybe you don't wanna wreck your graveyard like that lol, this cost seems pretty steep

[copper pecan]

getting 30 mana worth of cards into your graveyard is a huge ask

[granite badge]

wait I thought it was 10

[copper pecan]

no it's 30

[golden plover]

I thought it was 20

But yeah, it's not that it's too good or anything

It's that emblems are impossible to interact with, so they feel weird to come from a creature

[trail anvil]

yeah but this is still something that will take a really long time and in most decks that can realistically achieve this you don't actually want to exile your resources

[gritty nest]

Thoughts on mh3?

[lusty trench]

It's wacky but doesn't seem like too much of a power jump especially not compared to mh2

[gritty nest]

What do you think of the fact they made commander decks for it

[sleek ferry]

They’ve been doing that for pretty much every set, so not surprising?

Commander is their cash cow

[gritty nest]

True, but it’s a set for modern specifically afaik

[sudden lava]

One of the bloomburrow commanders may be my next commander deck

[twilit canyon]

ok

[twilit canyon]

i love mh3 so far

not sure how it will change when we actually play with the cards more in earnest

[gritty nest]

Which one

I got all 4 mh3 precons, mainly to give 2 to a friend

I’m taking eldrazi and jund

[granite badge]

commander precons for every set is basically the standard now

I wish they were challenger decks but its w/e

[sudden lava]

Squirrelled Away or Peace Offering looks the coolest going off the theme hints

[granite badge]

they've basically phased out every beginner product besides the $20 2 player arena starter kits and commander precons

[gritty nest]

My friend is getting cards for squirrels

Including 2 card infinite squirrels

[sudden lava]

Leaning more towards squirreled away cuz I have enough 3 color decks

[lusty trench]

I like how they were just like "yeah squirrels is a selling point"

And they were so right for that

[sudden lava]

I got a feeling Chatterfang is being reprinted in it

[lusty trench]

Better be

[sudden lava]

The 3 legendary traditional foils kinda feels like we might get partner commanders for the second face, but of course not confirmed yet

[copper pecan]

i wonder if this is the plane where chatterfang is from

[stark skiff]

im probably getting the Golgari one since I realized i never really play in those colors. Group Hug isnt my style and +1 is so tired at this point. Jeskai might be interesting so depends on what they show. Not a fan of Gruul playing from exile much so thats how I currently see them.

[copper pecan]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/expanding-your-horizons-eldrazi

some of these are really interesting

i'm very glad the dredge cantrip didn't get printed because that sounds like it would get out of hand very fast

[twilit canyon]

anhhhhhh

*nahh

it'd have been totally fine

[sleek ferry]

https://youtu.be/3Mr6Cy4lJkE?si=mGmyduyrkVXw3jWq

This art is sick

[trail anvil]

ye that's a crazy good full art

playtested omo (subbing out most of the stuff of the precon) and man this commander is so fun. you get to do that changeling.dek thing where you abuse lots of other type's cards, but on top of that you do the expected land cheese

with cards like talon gates of madara you have so many good interactions

[broken fjord]

I do like that it's also got some tron in it. Just kind of funny. Deck is packed with value. Planar Nexus is such a silly land.

[gritty nest]

I’m still waiting to get my precons tbh

[trail anvil]

yeah planar nexus is really fun as your commander on a stick

[sudden lava]

https://x.com/wizards_magic/status/1797748973723074601

Magic: The Gathering (@wizards_magic) on X

Let your Pride burn bright! ❤️‍🔥
All profits from the sale of our new Pride collection for 2024 are going to @TrevorProject!

Pins, shirts, and playmats available at https://t.co/w0QgrG5FBN

Twitter · Jun 3, 2024, 9:55 PM

[lusty trench]

UK didn't get a pride event

[granite badge]

wow the comments are a dumpster fire

idk what I was expecting tbf

[golden plover]

Kinda wish there were more merch, because the chibi Chandra design just isn't doing it for me

[rigid scarab]

They're definitely doing another pride lair right

[twilit canyon]

its too easy not to

[golden plover]

Surprisingly the gay kings still don't have a lair art

The entire rest of their cycle got one in SNC tho

[golden plover]

RCQ promos

Sleight of Hand looks SICK

Nexus is hard to read, but it's cool

[copper pecan]

i feel like nexus would be a lot better with a different font

i really like the sleight of hand though

[golden plover]

The supreme verdict doesn't make any sense

Like that looks like it should be a [[Chord of Calling]] or something

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/134/chord-of-calling

Chord of Calling <:manax:292901509082120202><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
Search your library for a creature card with mana value X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.

[copper pecan]

looking at that art i'd assume it was one of the ikoria ultimatums or something

[golden plover]

Yeah, it is mostly random Ikoria monsters

The art is just weird, doesn't fit the card

[lusty trench]

Nah that's a natural order if I've ever seen it

[golden plover]

It's good art, but it's a green/gruul card art

Also, Nexus needs a print in a regular frame somewhere

Come on Wotc, it's been years

Card has only SL prints and it's first foil print

It desperately needs a non-foil regular frame print

[glad peak]

ok i love how sleight of hand looks

supreme verdict is a cute godzilla reference with the destroy all monsters game

[trail anvil]

that nexus looks cool but it's a bit over stylized

[golden plover]

I just want a legible non-foil nexus

Kenrith has like 5 prints now

Actually [[Firestar and Sunspeaker]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/215/firesong-and-sunspeaker

Firesong and Sunspeaker <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Minotaur Cleric
Red instant and sorcery spells you control have lifelink.
Whenever a white instant or sorcery spell causes you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
The peaks of Hurloon never fall silent.
4/6

[golden plover]

Yeah they have non-foil prints too

[trail anvil]

fml the elder dragon brawl festival looks fun but the rewards are dogshit lmao

jk izzet niv and hidetsugu and kairi are both legal, dodging

[sleek ferry]

https://youtu.be/3Zib1qL8wTc?si=6C2ve4hFr8HAjlOm

[stark skiff]

Hey sorry random ruling question for how Magus Lucea Kane ability works. If you tap her for Mawloc as an example and X is 2, does the copy of Mawloc enter as a 4/4 with no +1 counters or a 2/2 with 2 +1 counters or just as a 2/2?

[gritty nest]

Mawloc?

Asking my friend real quick who’s a judge for magic @stark skiff

[stark skiff]

https://scryfall.com/card/40k/133/mawloc

[gritty nest]

It enters with 2 +1/+1 counters. The X = 2 for both the original and the copy

[copper pecan]

one of my friends has this in his cube

fun card

[rigid scarab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDwRYMrQlc&ab_channel=TheRedBobcat

A fully legal commander deck containing exclusively unreadable cards

[trail anvil]

unreadable
phyrexian praetor
skill issue tbh

[urban crane]

This came in yesterday

[broken fjord]

Played some brawl on arena. Kinda fun. Some poor miirym player had to mulligan down to 4. Feels bad. Still thoughtseized their only nonland.

[rigid scarab]

Given current game rules, the effects on these cards are considered 'derived information'

The players are entitled access to it, but the opponent is not obliged to assist

So you actually don't need to explain any of the cards you're playing

[urban crane]

Also I find it kinda interesting in a good way how popular magic is in this server

[granite badge]

the overlap in specific tcg nerds isn't that small

I think half of more of my lgs regulars play 2 or more tcgs at any given time

[glad peak]

Yep, my friend’s trying to see if it’s worth doing a coaching thing for the top 3 games and hold iron man style invitationals lol

Trying to convince them it’s a bad idea since no one has enough time to dedicate to all 3 games

[urban crane]

Like I know at my own LGs I’m the only one who both play magic and yugioh

Atleast attending locals wise

And that’s why it’s a big shock to me

[urban crane]

Also wtf I just got my t&t code for my largoyf precon

So I’m getting tomorrow

[fallow citrus]

really like this art

[lusty trench]

Damn actually good miku art

[golden plover]

Wait are there multiple bonus card options?

[copper pecan]

competitively viable hatsune miku card?????????????????????????????

[golden plover]

Also actually done by a Japanese artist and looks good?

This one is gonna be pricey

[glad peak]

Huh did they hide all the good art from us and advertise the bad ones?

[golden plover]

Lmao they totally did put the good art on the bonus cards. Why the fuck would they do that ?

[modern minnow]

I wasn't sold on the miku secret lair until they showed us the common with no value and bad art instead of the card with some value and good art

[golden plover]

Don't love the whole gambling on the bonus card trend they're doing now

Sure even with the WAR walkers, it was a gamble whether you got Teferi or Davriel

But having multiple bonus cards for a lair and one being pricey (Snapcaster, Mana Crypt in the fallout one) and having to hope your bonus card isn't the shitty common feels AWFUL

Especially with secret lairs being a limited print run now

Better order 15 of every lair in case the rare bonus card in one is Dockside!

[sudden lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/448940916833648640/1247872946425565234/IMG_7470.jpg?ex=66619bbe&is=66604a3e&hm=fc46f16fed334c07bd88a889e07522ef4be102592a26266c9727476aae0dcd20&=&format=webp&width=409&height=545

Miku bonus card

[fallow citrus]

13 lines...

[twilit canyon]

ian on dredge and some fun rules text

[gritty nest]

What sleeves should I use for 5c devoid eldrazi

[glad peak]

Ok those sleeves look sick

Are those official?

[lusty trench]

They are indeed

The ultra pro sleeves for this set all have the portrait art of the face commanders

[gritty nest]

I don’t like ultra pro art sleeves

[fallow citrus]

just use grey or charcoal sleeves

[trail anvil]

those omo sleeves are pretty dang cool

[gritty nest]

I’ll probably grab the ultimate guard black or gray

Someone said clear because they’re devoid of color

[sharp falcon]

I legitimately cannot comprehend how anyone ever enjoys playing MTG

The game is fundamentally broken

Whether you get to play or not is often strictly determined by RNG

There's literally a built-in mechanic to negate your draw phase

It's so certified grade-A ass

When you sit down at a table to play a game of (non-Commander) Magic, you have an upwards of 70% chance to get a complete non-game

[twilit canyon]

its only rng if your deckbuilding is shit

[sharp falcon]

Everyone says that, but you can't get more 24 lands than 24 lands

[twilit canyon]

???

you can?

[sharp falcon]

You can run land fetch, but that's only half the problem

[twilit canyon]

you can run 27 lands

or 30 lands

the 2 best decks in standard right now are on 26 and 27 lands

[sharp falcon]

"You can't get more 24 lands than 24 lands"

[twilit canyon]

that means nothing though

[granite badge]

My mono red prowess list runs like 17 lands because my curve caps out at 3 mana

[twilit canyon]

this game has infinite ways to constantly get more lands either into play or into hand

[granite badge]

So I only need to draw 2 lands and gas to win on turn 3-4-5

[twilit canyon]

lands are also as much a wincon as they are game pieces

[sharp falcon]

Continuing my point - either someone gets mana screwed in the opening turns of the game and misses their land drops like 3-4 turns in a row and the game just automatically ends by forfeiture with one player not being able to play their cards, OR you manage to get into a scrappy, grindy long game in a simplified board state where both players are living off their topdecks, and inevitably someone hits lands too many turns in a row and gets locked out of playing the game not by deckbuilding skill, piloting proficiency, matchup experience, or anything else skill-testing, but strictly by RNG

[twilit canyon]

we play cards like [[eiganjo seat of the empire]] and [[otawara soaring city]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/neo/268/eiganjo-seat-of-the-empire

Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire

Legendary Land
: Add .
Channel — , Discard Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire: It deals 4 damage to target attacking or blocking creature. This ability costs less to activate for each legendary creature you control.

https://scryfall.com/card/neo/271/otawara-soaring-city

Otawara, Soaring City

Legendary Land
: Add .
Channel — , Discard Otawara, Soaring City: Return target artifact, creature, enchantment, or planeswalker to its owner's hand. This ability costs less to activate for each legendary creature you control.

[granite badge]

Are you sure it isn't just negativity bias btw

[twilit canyon]

[[mirrex]] and [[restless anchorage]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/one/254/mirrex

Mirrex

Land — Sphere
: Add .
: Add one mana of any color. Activate only if Mirrex entered the battlefield this turn.
, : Create a 1/1 colorless Phyrexian Mite artifact creature token with toxic 1 and "This creature can't block." (Players dealt combat damage by it also get a poison counter.)

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/280/restless-anchorage

Restless Anchorage

Land
Restless Anchorage enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add or .
: Until end of turn, Restless Anchorage becomes a 2/3 white and blue Bird creature with flying. It's still a land.
Whenever Restless Anchorage attacks, create a Map token.

[twilit canyon]

[[field of ruin]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/moc/400/field-of-ruin

Field of Ruin

Land
: Add .
, , Sacrifice Field of Ruin: Destroy target nonbasic land an opponent controls. Each player searches their library for a basic land card, puts it onto the battlefield, then shuffles.

[granite badge]

Creature lands are pretty based ngl

[twilit canyon]

like our lands are extremely important to be able to do more than tap for mana

[granite badge]

I like how its become somewhat of a mainstay design space wise

[sharp falcon]

Like I feel like most scrappy long games aren't determined by player skill or deckbuilding proficiency, it's determined by the RNG shuffler or Jesus irl going "Alright, enough fun, pack it in, here's 5 land drops in a row, fuck you, go fuck yourself byeeeee"

[twilit canyon]

thats the exact opposite actually

short games are way more rng

long games are entirely skill and deckbuilding

[sharp falcon]

Uh-huh, so it's pure skill when I win because my opponent drew into basic plains 5 turns in a row

[twilit canyon]

theres a reason aggro has the brainless stereotype

and why midrange and control have the giga brain stereotype

[sharp falcon]

So I just swing with my one lonely guy over and over and kill him with a hand full of Eldrazi I put in a 17 land main

Pure skill

[twilit canyon]

why are they playing 5 basic plains

it sounds like you are playing purely kitchen table magic

[sharp falcon]

You... need mana to play the game?? Tf kind of question is that??

[twilit canyon]

its the same as throwing in 40 random yugioh cards and calling it a day

even in mono white decks im never playing 5 basics

the most basics ive played in a mono color deck is 3

this game has a ridiculously high amount of utility lands

[sharp falcon]

Having basic plains in a deck invalidates the entire scenario, damn

[granite badge]

theres a big reason why shocks/fetches make up easily $200-300 of an average manabase

their point is to reduce variance

[twilit canyon]

shocks, fetches, creature lands, utility lands, spell lands, mdfcs

etc etc etc

[sharp falcon]

So what you're saying is, your game is so shitty that the basic pillars of the game's mana system are frowned upon and scorned by the community

[granite badge]

unconditional taplands tend to have niche upsides to make up for it

[twilit canyon]

the basics are there entirely for limited

[granite badge]

like the tapland cycle that all targets your opponent and deals 1 damage to commit a crime

[sharp falcon]

If you're playing historic or modern, sure, but what about standard?

[twilit canyon]

and draft

i was talking standard for the most part

[granite badge]

even in standard on average you don't play more then a couple basics

[twilit canyon]

standard is not running many basics at all

[sleek ferry]

Gg’s, just got full art flare of denial, a regular holo flare of denial and an ajani for only $35

[granite badge]

depends on color and deck though

[sleek ferry]

I am UP right now

[twilit canyon]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-azorius-control-mid#paper

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-esper-midrange-mid#paper

[sharp falcon]

Doesn't matter, point is the number of games that get decided by someone drawing too many lands in a row when they really needed spells is ridiculous

[twilit canyon]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-boros-convoke-mid#paper

[twilit canyon]

and thats just not true

[sharp falcon]

And ditto for the inverse, someone getting stuck on 2-4 mana while the opponent ramps to 7-8 and blows them out on pure RNG

It's a coin flip where both outcomes create a non-game

[twilit canyon]

its only true if you are not playing a well built deck

[sharp falcon]

You have to perfectly nestle up in the middle of the curve, and trust that your opponent will do the same, in order to get a good game of Magic

Then perfectly reside in that center for the entire duration of the match

[sleek ferry]

Mana flooding and mana screwing are more rare than you’re making it seem. A well constructed deck will RARELY get affected by either

[sharp falcon]

The longer the game goes on for, the higher the odds become that someone gets screwed by the built-in draw phase negation mechanic

[twilit canyon]

yeah thats just the barrier of entry for a competitive game of magic

its the same for yugioh

or worse

i pull up playing snake eyes at locals and my opponent is on dark magician 45 card deck

[sharp falcon]

It is not remotely the same in Yugioh, most topdecks are live and even the ones that aren't are at least technically playable

[twilit canyon]

i havent had actual games of yugioh

irl

ever

[sharp falcon]

As in you could put them on the board and make something happen even if it would be bad

[twilit canyon]

my locals is way too casual for that

[granite badge]

I think you could extend this logic to all tcgs though is the thing

every tcg has non games to some extend

[twilit canyon]

i pull up on snake eyes and have non games bc i just cannot lose to these non-meta casual decks

[sharp falcon]

Isn't that the same as you dogging on a hypothetical of 5 plains??

That's also a balancing issue, not a fundamental gameplay issue

[twilit canyon]

yeah thats entirely your argument tho

[sharp falcon]

I'm saying the fundamental design of MTG as a game is broken

[lusty trench]

This is just a bad faith argument, it was started with a view point that's not going to change for the purpose of being contrary

[sharp falcon]

The lands system is so completely ass

It just creates non-games out the dick by pure chance

[sleek ferry]

It’s worse in Yugioh when you’re on just engine + 18 HT’s tbh. At least if you see your opening hand is either flooded or screwed, you can realistically mulligan 2-3 times in most well constructed decks

[twilit canyon]

and i presented that in-game ways that wotc has balanced lands

they had an initial system and have elaborated heavily on it

not being a fan of it is one thing. calling it broken is another when it ignores the 30 years of building on said system

its a fundamental misunderstanding of the system as a whole

[granite badge]

like in yugioh if my deck is 50-60% starters I will still sometimes have hands which set pass

[sharp falcon]

I agree, but the difference is the prevalence and variance. Yugioh decks have a fairly low variance overall, particularly draw variance. There are extremes but the odds of opening or topping them are really low. In MTG, I feel like the magnitude of draw variance gets massively amplified by the fact that half your deck can be completely dead (not in the sense of "not ideal", but in the sense of "literal turn skip") depending on the gamestate, and which half depends on that gamestate

[granite badge]

because TCGs are inheriently designed to have variance

[sharp falcon]

I feel like so many more games in MTG get decided by draw variance compared to every other TCG I've gotten deeply into

[sleek ferry]

Also the land argument is so played out in current day where lands are just so much more flexible in what they do

[sharp falcon]

Yugioh, Gwent, Cabals, Mabinogi Duel, Hearthstone, Shadowverse, no other TCG I've ever played has had draw variance even close to touching MTG's

[twilit canyon]

they are often worse

ygo in particular's variance is brutal

no mulligans

smaller decks means hyper consistency and the power of good starters are absurd to the degree where u get so many non-games

[sharp falcon]

It's so much more likely that a game gets decided by draw variance in this game than it is in any other TCG I've tried, and the difference between topping a land when you needed a spell or topping spells when you desperately need your 3rd land drop is way more extreme than something like drawing a 7-mana guy on turn 3 in Hearthstone

[sleek ferry]

Yugioh has had multiple formats where each player could draw their opening 5 and you could compare hands with each other and choose the winner without having to actually play the game

[granite badge]

the kamigawa channel cycle is the main thing I'm gonna miss when rotation happens btw

they're really cool

[sleek ferry]

Channel is such a godly mechanic

[twilit canyon]

im betting bloomburrow is going to have some sort of replacement or alternative to them

lands are probably our strongest game pieces in today's standard

[sharp falcon]

I can't count the number of times I've accepted a hand with 3 lands and 4 spells, only to not draw a single land or land fetch for the next 6 turns, despite using scry, surveil, and explore effects

The mulligan means nothing

[twilit canyon]

deckbuilding issue

[sharp falcon]

There's no way to outplay the draw variance

[sleek ferry]

Well that’s like a barebones example. What are the 4 spells you kept? What’s your win con?

[sharp falcon]

Even if you accept a hand that seems fine, you can just randomly not hit lands for 6 turns in a row, or you can get your lands properly but then get into a lategame where you randomly only hit lands for 6 turns in a row and lose

[sleek ferry]

There’s a lot that goes into an example like that

[sharp falcon]

Bruh 24 lands is 24 lands, idk wtf you want from me

[twilit canyon]

why are you playing 24 lands

[golden plover]

I just wanna say Yugioh worlds a couple years ago was decided by 3 non-games in a row

[twilit canyon]

i guarantee you that your deck would be infinitely stronger if it had more than 24 lands and you needed more lands

[granite badge]

for standard I think you play 20-22 right

[golden plover]

But yeah, this is a pointless argument

[twilit canyon]

25+

[granite badge]

huh

[golden plover]

Askaan is arguing just for the sake of it

[twilit canyon]

midrange wants to be on more and more lands

[golden plover]

And they're not gonna change their mind

[sleek ferry]

The difference between a top level player like Misty and a Mythic level player like me is massive btw, she understands the game in ways that idt anybody else in this channel does

[granite badge]

maybe its just cause the only experience I have with standard deckbuilding is the deck that caps at 3-4 mana cards tops

[twilit canyon]

because the lands we play are so powerful and useful that you need to hit them

[sleek ferry]

I’m currently on 27

[sharp falcon]

The initial system is fundamentally broken and makes MTG a bad game, there's a reason no other TCG has ever adopted the land system, at best you get actually good versions like Lorcana and Duel Masters that let you use your normal spells/creatures as lands rather than forcing you to run 20-28 bricks in a 60-card deck

[twilit canyon]

that right there tells me everything

if you think you are running 20-28 bricks you fundamentally dont get it

[sharp falcon]

It doesn't matter that they "iterated on it" to make it slightly less shitty, the fundamental mechanic is shite and defines the shittiness of the game as a whole

[twilit canyon]

and thats fine

[granite badge]

I think the main thing I dislike about lands isn't the system itself

[twilit canyon]

not every game is for everyone

[granite badge]

its the fact they tend to be the least accessible pieces, well, the high end rare cycles anyway

[twilit canyon]

what?

not a fan of paying

400$ for a mana base?

[granite badge]

[sharp falcon]

Half the time you need more lands in the opener, half the time you draw too many lands in a row in the lategame and get locked out of playing

[granite badge]

me when i wann do silly prowess in modern

[stark skiff]

Pics or lies

[sleek ferry]

There’s definitely things to dislike about mtg’s system, nobody’s saying the game is perfect

[granite badge]

and the mana base is more then the actual core

[sharp falcon]

Draw-pass loop for 5 turns while watching the opponent do stuff and swing

Very cool

[sleek ferry]

Got it from whatnot my friend

[sharp falcon]

It's not a question of "needs more lands" or "needs less lands", it's just RNG

[sleek ferry]

Bought a collector’s pack for 35 and those were my pulls

[twilit canyon]

thats the problem

ur not playing enough utility lands

[golden plover]

I think theoretically the way Force of Will did lands is the ideal way to do it

[twilit canyon]

your spells are not strong

[golden plover]

But the way MTG does it is fine

[twilit canyon]

your lands should be doing a ton

[golden plover]

(In FoW your lands were in a separate deck and you choose which one to draw from for turn)

[twilit canyon]

draw too many lands is fine bc it enables you to play your modal spells like [[pillage the bog]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/224/pillage-the-bog

Pillage the Bog <:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
Look at the top X cards of your library, where X is twice the number of lands you control. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Plot (You may pay and exile this card from your hand. Cast it as a sorcery on a later turn without paying its mana cost. Plot only as a sorcery.)

[sleek ferry]

Lorcana is probably the ideal way, but like as stated, it doesn’t even matter in current day where mtg lands are so much more than just mana pieces now

[granite badge]

I like DON in One Piece the most tbh

[twilit canyon]

and activate your strong lands like [[restless cottage]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/258/restless-cottage

Restless Cottage

Land
Restless Cottage enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add or .
: Restless Cottage becomes a 4/4 black and green Horror creature until end of turn. It's still a land.
Whenever Restless Cottage attacks, create a Food token and exile up to one target card from a graveyard.

[granite badge]

guaranteed 2 "mana" every turn

[twilit canyon]

or pump mana into [[tranquil frillback]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mat/24/tranquil-frillback

Tranquil Frillback <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Dinosaur
When Tranquil Frillback enters the battlefield, you may pay up to three times. When you pay this cost one or more times, choose up to that many —
• Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
• Exile target player's graveyard.
• You gain 4 life.
3/3

[granite badge]

and your don cards never feel dead because worst case you use them to pump your leader

[sharp falcon]

Utility lands like what, the stuff that comes in tapped? Oh boy, can't wait to forfeit every 3rd match to RDW in Arena bo1!

[sleek ferry]

Tranquil frill back is such a goat

[urban crane]

Unless you go first on your first turn and capping at ten

[twilit canyon]

the deck looking to expose people for playing midrange strategies is exposing you for playing a midrange strategy

[lusty trench]

show up in worst set known to man
Do five billion things
Does not elaborate
Leaves
Crazy

[stark skiff]

Rich

[sharp falcon]

Okay so your advice is lose to the most common Arena bo1 deck

[granite badge]

RDW?

[stark skiff]

Bless my MH3 collector pulls

[twilit canyon]

if you are on a golgari midrange deck, you should be winning that match up

pretty much every time

because your 3 mana spells shouldnt be winning/losing the game

[sharp falcon]

???

[twilit canyon]

and the majority of your spells should still be 1 or 2 mana

[granite badge]

for mono red prowess specifically I find that the easiest way to stop me is to answer slickshot

[sharp falcon]

If your lands are coming in tapped during the first few turns, you're dead by their 3rd turn

[granite badge]

cause the deck runs out of gas really quickly

[twilit canyon]

again i 100% feel like this is skill issue personified

like you dont get how lands work

[granite badge]

oh misty btw while you're here

[twilit canyon]

and thats fine

[granite badge]

whats a good deck to jump off of after mono red prowess

[stark skiff]

It is and I’m surprised you’re allowing it to go on lol

[granite badge]

I'm using it as a cheap deck to grind with

[twilit canyon]

im currently a big fan of izzet prowess for standard

not meta

[granite badge]

but I wanna build something less linear

[sharp falcon]

And from my perspective as a relatively newer player, I admit that I'm inexperienced but I cannot possibly envision a world where drawing 5 lands in a row or drawing 5 spells in a row is a skill issue. That's strictly a random outcome with no amount of player control whatsoever

[twilit canyon]

but i am enjoying my time with it

[granite badge]

izzet sounds fun

[twilit canyon]

90% of the time i would be estatic to draw 5 lands in a row in most match ups

[sharp falcon]

Lands give you mana to grant access to playing the game, if you don't get lands then you aren't allowed to play

[granite badge]

is izzet spellslinger real in standard

thats an archetype I've always wanted

[twilit canyon]

running cards like [[mosswood dreadknight]] [[questing druid]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/231/mosswood-dreadknight-dread-whispers

Mosswood Dreadknight <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Human Knight
Trample
When Mosswood Dreadknight dies, you may cast it from your graveyard as an Adventure until the end of your next turn.
3/2

Dread Whispers
Sorcery — Adventure
You draw a card and you lose 1 life. (Then exile this card. You may cast the creature later from exile.)

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/234/questing-druid-seek-the-beast

Questing Druid <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Human Druid
Whenever you cast a spell that's white, blue, black, or red, put a +1/+1 counter on Questing Druid.
1/1

Seek the Beast
Instant — Adventure
Exile the top two cards of your library. Until your next end step, you may play those cards.

[sharp falcon]

Spells let you play the game, but if you don't draw them because you keep playing lands then you also aren't allowed to play

[sleek ferry]

I think this needs to be emphasized more. Like, idt he understands the amount of skill and knowledge you need to play mtg close to optimally. All the arguments are very base level

[sharp falcon]

I feel like your argument seriously just boils down to "play green"

[twilit canyon]

green is pretty weak right now

[sharp falcon]

Which is the one color I'm seriously not interested in

[lusty trench]

Your lands should have additional abilities that serve more purpose than a simple additional mana per turn

[sleek ferry]

Green has been weak for a good while

[twilit canyon]

the 2 best decks are white/blue in standard

[sharp falcon]

The ones that do come in tapped and make you die to the most common deck in Arena

[twilit canyon]

these decks are also the ones that are going to be weakest to aggro in best of 1

[sleek ferry]

Green did get some nice stuff in otj though

[twilit canyon]

but golgari midrange absolutely farms rdw

golgari is my current spicy pick for best deck in standard

but i cant defend this opinion besides "i feel like it is"

[lusty trench]

Your removal should be more efficient to compensate

[subtle tendon]

@sharp falcon as someone who dabbles in modern and plays a lot of yugioh. I'd argue that ygo has more non-games than mtg has on average, and this is coming from someone who hate sthe land mechanic

[twilit canyon]

its very much a "i think its got 50/50 match ups across the board ergo its the best deck for the best pilot"

[sleek ferry]

I spammed golgari for a good while, in both bo1 and bo3 and I think it depends. I can 110% see it in bo3, but not in bo1

[twilit canyon]

yeah

spells should be efficient

following a curve is somewhat a myth

it should be followed to start

just to get going

but once you get more practice

your curve becomes running the most efficient spells and threats

and very few spells over 3+

or the curve is deceptive

[sharp falcon]

I disagree, at least Yugioh games where you compare opening hands have some degree of skill expression in that you can mess up the lines and have to know the matchup + your own deck to correctly place your interactions. You're talking about solved games where if both players play ideally, the outcome is pretty much set in stone without much wiggle room

[twilit canyon]

you have spells that cost a lot but have an alternate mode that costs very little

[sharp falcon]

But at least there is interaction there, a game did happen

The MTG version I'm complaining about, you literally don't get to play a single card

[twilit canyon]

one of my favorites is a spell that costs a lot actually

[[deduce]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/52/deduce

Deduce <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Draw a card. Investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
Proft lit up like a man who had just been handed a glorious and unexpected gift. "I know who's responsible for this," he said. "And I can prove it."

[sharp falcon]

Or you do get a good game, but it ends with "Okay now you don't get to play a single card"

[twilit canyon]

this card is technically 4 mana

but it only costs 1 and a blue

[subtle tendon]

if I show my opponent a specific card, 9x out of 10, the game ends and I win

[twilit canyon]

saving the value of the rest of the spell for later

[subtle tendon]

tell me the skill expression needed to flip dbarrier or harpies feather storm

[twilit canyon]

or cards that scale too ie [[three steps ahead]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/75/three-steps-ahead

Three Steps Ahead <:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Spree (Choose one or more additional costs.)

• — Counter target spell.
• — Create a token that's a copy of target artifact or creature you control.
• — Draw two cards, then discard a card.
  She'd planned for every eventuality, with the obvious exception of failure.

[sharp falcon]

What card is that, Shifter?

[subtle tendon]

you can use shifter too

[sleek ferry]

Btw, spree cards were such a fucking banger

Shout out to them

[sharp falcon]

That's not skill expression, that's an awful matchup

[twilit canyon]

spree and plot

absolutely based

[sharp falcon]

Unplayable matchups exist in every game that allows you to pick your character

[sleek ferry]

Otj is just a based set in general

[subtle tendon]

brother what

if I put dbarrier in my penguin deck and play vs branded

[sharp falcon]

Oh, I misread dbarrier as dfissure

[subtle tendon]

you're gonna say it;s an awful matchup?

[sharp falcon]

True actually, there's some bad cards

But at least it's bad card design and not a fundamental game mechanic that creates the non-game

[sleek ferry]

Yugioh has a lot of silver bullets

[subtle tendon]

there are mutliple of those bad card designs

[sharp falcon]

MTG's lands are a scourge of a mechanic that will never be solved because it's fundamental to the game to be a bit dogshit

[subtle tendon]

and a shit ton of cards that search said cards

[twilit canyon]

yeah except thats really not true

[subtle tendon]

I havent seen that many basic lands in the game from the matches ive played

[twilit canyon]

they have been solving it for 30 years

[sharp falcon]

Yugioh's card design is incidental to its fundamental gameplay mechanics, which are also broken and silly, but at least allow a game to happen

[subtle tendon]

so what format are you playing exactly

every modern deck is playing some insanely pushed lands

[twilit canyon]

if there was a big criticism i have of mtg is that basics have a very specific niche and they dont empower them further

[sharp falcon]

If it takes 30 years to only partially "solve", maybe don't make such a shit mechanic part of the game in the first place. Again, there's a reason no one else has tried to mimic the land system, even mana-based TCG's

The ideal version of this idea would be something like Duel Masters or Lorcana where you use your normal maindeck cards as lands instead of running a separate suite of cards

[twilit canyon]

its not partially solved. its completely solved and they keep iterating upon it

again i feel like u just dont get the land system and its fine

[sharp falcon]

Running two halves of a deck that each enable the other and screw you if you don't draw them in the perfect proportions at the right timings is such an asinine idea to make fundamental to your game's mechanics

[twilit canyon]

ur also not even trying to understand the system

[sharp falcon]

Standard btw

[twilit canyon]

its like if someone came to ygo and never understood the special summon mechanic or the once per turn limitation

[golden plover]

Modern yugioh has way more non-games

[fallow citrus]

me when I say quite possibly the first huge tcg should have just been designed better at the start

[golden plover]

Game is over 2 turns in because my opponent shows me they've got shifter in hand

[sharp falcon]

Okay but that means I'm right that the system is ass???

[sleek ferry]

Why didn’t you design it better Aeri smh

[fallow citrus]

when did I say I agreed

[subtle tendon]

maybe you should switch formats

[fallow citrus]

mb guys sorry

[sharp falcon]

Okay so it's both already peak design, but also they couldn't have designed it better because it was the first

Make it make sense idk

[fallow citrus]

lmfao

[twilit canyon]

they were the first

[fallow citrus]

you're just arguing for the sake of it simmer down

[twilit canyon]

they have been iterating and designing since the beginning and seeing what worked and what didnt

[golden plover]

I mean MTG really could have been designed better 30 years ago, but that's too late now

[twilit canyon]

of course no other tcg was gonna copy it since it wasnt perfect to begin with

[golden plover]

The way they mitigate it now leads to way less non-games

[sharp falcon]

If they have to keep working to patch over a rough spot, then it's fundamentally not a good mechanic

[twilit canyon]

but its not like they are just gonna throw out their own work they have been working on from day 1 out the window

[sharp falcon]

You can't polish a turd and then say it smells good

[fallow citrus]

I also didn't say it was peak, but when you're the first tcg and you don't have any other design cues to go off of except for yourself, how were they expected to get it perfect?

[golden plover]

But even in shit like HS where you get a guaranteed mana a turn, there's plenty of non-games

[sharp falcon]

I'm not crazy for saying it smells bad

[twilit canyon]

no u keep working on the system and seeing what works or what doesnt

[sharp falcon]

They weren't, I'm just saying the system is ass

[golden plover]

Lands isn't the only thing that leads to non-games

[sharp falcon]

No, but it's an additional layer of "shit that leads to non-games" that doesn't exist in other TCG's

[twilit canyon]

i dont think someone is crazy for not liking the mana system but i think its crazy to be unable to see how the system works even or why it works

[golden plover]

Maybe I drew all my 5 drops t1 and I'm playing 4 turns behind in HS or whatever

[sharp falcon]

Other TCG's have their own things that can lead to non-games, but the land system just ups the percentage chance by a crazy amount by existing

[twilit canyon]

except thats not the case

[sharp falcon]

Because MTG has all those things AND the land system

[golden plover]

It's exactly the same as something like Hearthstone or Legends of Runeterra tbh

[twilit canyon]

like itd be one thing to critique the real current issue of mtg

[golden plover]

Especially since magic cards, on average, cost less to do effects than the others

[twilit canyon]

which is the play/draw discrepancy

like if u wanna talk real issues with mtg right now

its that

[golden plover]

Yeah, the play/draw issue is the biggest issue in mtg rn

[sharp falcon]

It's not exactly the same because there's no random chance to get locked to 2 mana or 3 mana in HS or Runeterra

[twilit canyon]

and wotc is actively taking steps to solve this

[golden plover]

It's not nearly as bad as it is in yugioh at least

But it's not ideal either

[sharp falcon]

And players don't top out their decks at 4 mana cards because there's an actual guarantee that the game will progress beyond 4 mana

[twilit canyon]

the game progresses beyond 4 mana in mtg too

[golden plover]

A lot of MTG cards effects wise are way cheaper than cards in the other games

A counterspell in mtg is 2-3

[twilit canyon]

again u really do not get how a game of magic plays right now

[golden plover]

The cheapest unconditional counterspell in LoR is 4

[sharp falcon]

> guarantee

[golden plover]

There's 2 other ones, but they're both conditional

Same with a murder

You can get a murder, in standard, at 2 mana

Hell, there's 1 mana murders in standard

[twilit canyon]

so wait then why is ygo better?

[sharp falcon]

The closest equivalent to getting land flooded in the lategame in HS/RT would be drawing a bunch of your 1-drops and 2-drops in a row when you're on 10 mana

But at least you can play the game like that

[twilit canyon]

games end turn 1 or 2

consistently

[sharp falcon]

Granted, your odds of losing skyrocket, but you're able to put cards on the board

[twilit canyon]

is it a requirement that games go longer than 4 turns?

[sharp falcon]

In MTG, if you just hit lands 5 turns in a row, you draw, pass, draw, pass until you happen to pull something that's not a land

[golden plover]

You also start with way more cards and a lot more MTG cards Cantrip tho

[sharp falcon]

I'm saying in those games, players deckbuild differently because the game is guaranteed to go beyond 4 mana

[twilit canyon]

right and thats just not a realistic scenario between people playing real decks

[golden plover]

You're probably pretty likely to have SOMETHING you can do

[sharp falcon]

MTG players typically keep things at or below 4 because there's no guarantee they'll hit their land drops consistently enough to go above 4

[twilit canyon]

lmao

okay

[sharp falcon]

I don't care how long the game takes, that was never part of the conversation

[twilit canyon]

so u completely are ignoring the existence of control

or midrange

okay nevermind u are just arguing for the sake of it without actually listening to the baseline counter argument

i was giving benefit of doubt that u just didnt get it and wanted to know

[sharp falcon]

Your baseline counterargument is just "lmao you don't understand the game, skill issue skill issue" while explaining nothing about your actual point

[twilit canyon]

i have been telling u what magic has been doing iterate upon the land idea

[sharp falcon]

It's just "I'm a higher-ranked player, I've been steeped in this community for years, I know what I'm talking about and I'm married to WotC, if you don't like it you're mad bc bad" for like, 30 minutes

[twilit canyon]

and how decks actually play out

[golden plover]

Multiple people have tried to explain to you other points about your argument

But you've just ignored them all

[twilit canyon]

arguing just for the sake of it

also im p sure ive been playing magic for less than a good chunk of ppl here

[golden plover]

Yeah thugs has been playing the longest iirc

[twilit canyon]

crazy how im better

icant

[sharp falcon]

And you're not listening because I'm saying it's a fundamentally bad mechanic, if they have to keep "iterating on" it to repave it with playable cards and reduce the number of non-games, then the base mechanic underneath is bad

Yugioh has the opposite problem where the base mechanics don't necessarily produce non-games, but they keep printing bad cards on top of fundamentally sound base mechanics

But the basic mechanics of lands itself in MTG creates non-games and vastly increases the impact of draw variance and RNG

[twilit canyon]

the base mechanic underneath with lands isnt really good or bad

it was just a mechanic that could lead to all these issues if they hadnt done anything about it

[sharp falcon]

You can argue all you want about how "that's not how high-level decks play anymore" and "they print lands that do other things", but that doesn't change that the basic mechanic isn't very good, at best they've mitigated how bad it feels to get flooded or screwed

[twilit canyon]

and yeah they still happen but theres a reason wotc has spent the past 30 years making sure these issues dont happen

like

did u not want them to have it?

im confused

"oh this thing isnt good"

[sharp falcon]

Bruh why is my argument being warped into "do you want to time travel"

[twilit canyon]

they decided to make it better

or improve upon a system in place

did u want them to throw it out to begin with?

[sharp falcon]

It's still a bad mechanic, even if they try to repave it with better cards

[granite badge]

ngl I think the biggest issue is

[sharp falcon]

"Your complaint isn't actionable, therefore it's pointless" is a silly argument

[granite badge]

approaching the game from a yugioh mindset

[twilit canyon]

thats your argument

like

[granite badge]

where doing nothing on a turn gets you killed

[twilit canyon]

lol

[granite badge]

its not neccisarily the same in an inheriently slow game like mtg

[sharp falcon]

Tbf it does feel like this against RDW but in other decks, being stunned for a turn is often fine

But if you start getting stunlocked for more than like 2-3 turns, you probably auto forfeit

[twilit canyon]

legacy or vintage 😔

[stark skiff]

Bro if you pass 2-3 turns in YGO you’re dead there’s no difference

[granite badge]

true!

[sharp falcon]

Fundamental lack of reading comprehension

[stark skiff]

There’s no skill in flip Skill Drain I win, activate shifter I win.

Draw 5 HT, no starter, I’m dead

[sharp falcon]

Those are badly-designed cards, not badly-designed mechanics

[stark skiff]

Drew no HT, I’m cooked.

[sharp falcon]

I feel like no one here comprehends the difference between cards that are printed, and the gameplay mechanics that facilitate how and when you can play those printed cards

[clever sun]

Incredible how people can have different preferences and interests

[sharp falcon]

Having to tribute 1-2 monsters to normal summon anything over level 5 is a gameplay mechanic, it's part of the rules of the game

Summoned Skull is a card, it's not part of the rules or structure of the game, it's just a guy they printed

[golden plover]

I mean in an alternate reality, we're having this same argument about yugioh because they didn't print any good level 4 or lower monsters ever and the game is too tribute summon based

[clever sun]

How DARE anyone like something I don't like!?

[granite badge]

chat I have 7 mythic wildcards

what do I craft

[twilit canyon]

hm

7 mythics

[sharp falcon]

This is still vastly warping my argument, I never said no one is allowed to like Magic :\

[granite badge]

only 1 rare unfort

[sharp falcon]

I dislike the human tendency to just make up wild shit to strawman people they don't like

[clever sun]

Then shut up. You don't. Get out of here lol.

[stark skiff]

I’m still wondering why you’re here for like an hour lol

When no one is gonna change your mind

[clever sun]

If this game is something you're not into stop engaging.

[granite badge]

I'm surprised this argument has been entertained for so long ngl

[golden plover]

"Guys I can't believe it, yugioh is too RNG heavy. I hate drawing all my tributes and no level 3-4 guys and losing 3 turns later"

[stark skiff]

Blue Eyes problems

[sharp falcon]

I didn't see anything in the channel rules or description saying you have to like MTG to talk here, as far as I can tell it's just a channel for discussing MTG in general? Plus I was literally directed to bring this conversation here by another chat mod

[golden plover]

I didn't even wanna do the whole modern yugioh argument

[sharp falcon]

In fairness, something tells me your moderation style isn't the most impartial 😶

[golden plover]

I just thought it'd be funny to imagine a timeline where yugioh has been caveman yugioh for 25 years

[sharp falcon]

Yeah that's very funny actually

[granite badge]

https://mtgarena.pro/decks/standard/

[sharp falcon]

"Ugh, I drew triple duplicates of Summoned Skull and no Scapegoat!"

[trail anvil]

I didn't realize how many budget upgrades omo has, shit's wild

[granite badge]

is this a good site to get lists to netdeck from

or is there a better option

[trail anvil]

there are so many creatures that just help you pop off super hard, and a ton of budget board wipes because they don't fit anywhere else

[twilit canyon]

id check mtggoldfish

and mtgazone

[golden plover]

Goldfish might be a little better

[twilit canyon]

untapped.gg too

[golden plover]

But I dunno for specifically arena stuff

[trail anvil]

I'd check mtgmelee no?

[stark skiff]

You going land or creatures?

[granite badge]

gotcha

[sleek ferry]

Goldfish is usually my go to for base level lists

[trail anvil]

both 😎

idk if it's optimal to support both but she is giving out both kinds of counters so

[stark skiff]

The changeling to everything seems interesting

[clever sun]

You may have been directed because you were being annoying in another chat. I think they should have just told you to shut it.

[granite badge]

I assume theres not much diff between arena and paper

[golden plover]

Sidenote I'm kinda stunned by this lmao?

[clever sun]

There's a point where a convo is pointless and it long crossed that

[golden plover]

I'm glad I'm not still a mod because I would've been asking to mute you 30 minutes ago

[clever sun]

Gonna yell at Misty about it

[golden plover]

The fact this even went on so long is very generous to your case

[trail anvil]

it has some really cool synergies

[sleek ferry]

I’m so close to getting enough wildcards to build my post rotation deck

[trail anvil]

there's a bunch of stuff that gives you free creatures that are the same as the type on board

[stark skiff]

Yeah Kibler doing stuff with it made me wanna buy it

[stark skiff]

Oh fr?

[trail anvil]

I'd recommend it, even if you just go with the precon

[sharp falcon]

I mean I don't see a problem with discussing a card game in the channel where that card game is supposed to be discussed, the issue is just people not liking hearing negative things about stuff they like, but it's just fee-fees

[trail anvil]

the precon has a ton of unfocused cards but it's so super fun

your lands being a toolbox goes hard

[sharp falcon]

On the other hand, if I ranted and argued about how much I loved Magic, I'm sure no one would have had a problem with it

[sleek ferry]

I’m high key going to miss [[restoration of eiganjo]] once it rotates out smh

[sharp falcon]

It's strictly bias, therefore not very impartial

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/neo/34/the-restoration-of-eiganjo-architect-of-restoration

The Restoration of Eiganjo <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Search your library for a basic Plains card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
II — You may discard a card. When you do, return target permanent card with mana value 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
III — Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control.

Architect of Restoration
Enchantment Creature — Fox Monk
Vigilance
Whenever Architect of Restoration attacks or blocks, create a 1/1 colorless Spirit creature token.
"A visionary looks at rubble and sees not only what was, but also what could be." —Onyx-Eye, architect of Eiganjo
3/4

[twilit canyon]

he doesnt know

[stark skiff]

Yeah it was crazy seeing it

[golden plover]

Nah, we definitely have had arguments in here where everyone gets annoyed about people talking about liking something too much lmao

[clever sun]

Yeah you walked into a chat about people who like a game and talked smack and are surprised there's pushback?

And it's not like people were outright mean about it to begin with?

[sharp falcon]

I also never said that

[granite badge]

when I was a mod there was like an entire hitlist of people nobody liked, idk if thats the case still and I don't wanna know

[sharp falcon]

You're pretty consistent in making shit up that never happened, I never expressed surprise at the pushback

[stark skiff]

You’re on it kid

[golden plover]

Also you could have have just avoided this by not joining the chat

[sleek ferry]

Everybody here hates the fact summer gets excited over any new card for example

[sharp falcon]

I have a feeling I should take my leave before you make up something I said about being a neo-nazi or something, toodles

[golden plover]

P sure there always is, I remember it being the same when I was a mod

[clever sun]

Nah

[golden plover]

I also got a bit too mute happy with people on that list any time they'd start shit lmao

[clever sun]

That's a strawman

I just banned them

Good grief

[golden plover]

Oh yeah, nah fuck that

[clever sun]

@twilit canyon fuck you for this

I was working

[twilit canyon]

😇

[sleek ferry]

Or like how Saint’s first reaction to any card is “this art is shit”

At the end of the day, we’re all a tight knit community

[golden plover]

"Gonna blame me for being a neo-nazi" is not something someone who doesn't have suspicious intentions says

[clever sun]

Anyways while I'm here

AFFINITY BEST DECK FUCK ALL OF YOUR FRAUD MH3 DECKS WE ARE CANNONEERING THROUGH YOUR FAVORITE DECKS

[gritty nest]

Guys question

For 5c devoid eldrazi precon, gray sleeves or clear sleeves

[urban crane]

Gray

[sleek ferry]

All imma say is, if you see me playing high noon control in 2 months, don’t hate me

[twilit canyon]

gray

[golden plover]

Clear sleeves are kinda an l tbh

[urban crane]

Yeah

[granite badge]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-boros-convoke-mid#paper

[golden plover]

Especially if you run anything double sided

[granite badge]

is this buildable in arena

[golden plover]

Or even if a card gets scratched on the back in shipping

[gritty nest]

Oh ik, afaik the deck doesn’t have any double sided cards, but if it did clear wouldn’t be used at all

[golden plover]

I don't think there's any in the precon

But Eldritch Moon has a full set of flip eldrazis

[[Conduit of Storms]] being a notably decent upgrade

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/emn/124/conduit-of-storms-conduit-of-emrakul

Conduit of Storms <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Werewolf Horror
Whenever Conduit of Storms attacks, add at the beginning of your next main phase this turn.
: Transform Conduit of Storms.
It strikes with the fury of a tempest.
2/3

Conduit of Emrakul
Creature — Eldrazi Werewolf
Whenever Conduit of Emrakul attacks, add at the beginning of your next main phase this turn.
As without, so within.
5/4

[stark skiff]

You buying the Eldrazi collector precon?

[golden plover]

So if you're looking to upgrade it, clear is out of the question

[granite badge]

I can't find epicure in arena, did it rotate out

[twilit canyon]

not yet

[granite badge]

huh interesting

[trail anvil]

check not collected

[granite badge]

TIL you can import lists from mtggoldfish straight to arena

[stark skiff]

Oh yeah anyone mess with the energy stuff from MH3? The precon looks decent and all the support makes it look coherent lol

[twilit canyon]

not much

eldrazi and affinity hype

also a lot of hype for the raptor

and the new land

[stark skiff]

Haha yeah

I’m just wondering if anyone is gonna drop the 400 for that eldrazi collector lol

[glad peak]

Wow I missed an event because I was at a work meeting and the guy really left the server as a whole?

[sleek ferry]

The raptor is nuts

[twilit canyon]

nah my sister just banned him

[glad peak]

Oh huh

He’s not wrong about the lands nongame piece but it’s drawn out and old and just boils down to math

Doesn’t mean the game’s shit because of that mechanic though, the way you build around those restrictions is what’s important and I think Magic’s done a good job of it so far, especially with how it allows the possibilities of giving lands other abilities, something you don’t see in other games that try to “fix” the problem

[fallow citrus]

he was just looking for an argument it's as shrimple as that

[sleek ferry]

As Shrimple

Lmao

🦐

[subtle tendon]

yeah it was really helpful

[subtle tendon]

arena is certainly a simulator

besides the lack of packs given, I really do hate the UI

[modern minnow]

i will say its incredible how arena can make opening packs boring

[fallow citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/shrimp-simple-its-shrimple-gif-25735431

[twilit canyon]

i think the ui is pretty great

not flawless

but it could have been way way way worse

[subtle tendon]

like in game or out of play?

out of play, it feels so bad

[twilit canyon]

in-game

out of play can totally be pretty ass yeah

[sleek ferry]

The amount of times I’ve been gamed by this stupid ass combo is 3 times too many

[twilit canyon]

but they really are mostly focusing on the in-game experience being good