But people will talk about "leaks" more
#Magic the Gathering
golden plover
sleek ferry
Give people a taste of the mechanics/lore
Seems fine to me
I think it’s a good thing that so far this set seems a bit more dialed back
trail anvil
I'd be more in line with that theory if content creators didn't get their card revealed before they could
sleek ferry
Standard has been decently high power lately
You know it’s high power when swiftspear monastery is in the format and mono red isn’t even a top 3 deck
rigid scarab
But people will talk about "leaks" more
WOTC really doesn't think very highly of their players huh
golden plover
WOTC really doesn't think very highly of their players huh
Only the ones willing to spend $1000s
golden plover
We've seen all but 2 rares for ONE
And like 4 of them are any good
Either the mythics are insane or they somehow managed to make an underwhelming phyrexia set
sleek ferry
Aren’t we in phyrexia for the next set also?
golden plover
Yeah
sleek ferry
Like I said, I don’t mind a Lower power set after what we’ve gotten recently
golden plover
Lower power level is fine, but there just seems to not be all that much exciting stuff in this one
sleek ferry
Or at least like push any color that’s not white or black
fallow citrus
is this going to be like MID and VOW again
where we have 2 sets with one just worse
sleek ferry
Probably
sudden lava
👀 proliferate twice on ETB
sleek ferry
Rise of the machines will sell prob based on it being a big lore set anyways
fallow citrus
can't wait for march to reintroduce artifact lands to standard
golden plover
Apparently March has an entirely new card type
trail anvil
oh it's etb man
golden plover
proliferate twice so +2 infect counters
Proliferate doesn't double counters
It adds 1 of each type
sudden lava
wait it doesnt?
golden plover
Proliferate twice is 2 counters
copper pecan
Apparently March has an entirely new card type
oh shit are we finally getting quest cards?
golden plover
Who knows. I'm hoping it's not some form of crazy extra deck tbh
But I guess we'll see
copper pecan
where's the source for this?
golden plover
MaRo said so on his blog a while back
copper pecan
i can't find anything about this
last glen
Yeah he mentioned there was something big next set
copper pecan
that doesn't necessarily mean a new card type though
golden plover
He clarified somewhere this meant there's a new card type
But I can't seem to find it
It's also part of the reason for Aftermath apparently
To get enough of this new type into existence
Which concerns me that it's an extra deck
hidden ermine
I dont think he ever did clarify it
golden plover
Did he? I could have sworn he said we were getting an entirely new card type in the set
last glen
I feel like he did
but maybe Alph saying it created fake memories in my head
golden plover
Oh he's said prior he'd be willing to introduce a new card type
So it could have been unrelated, but I could have sworn it was in context of MoM
golden plover
True. And they've undoubtedly been exploring extra decks recently
Companions, Learn, Attractions
last glen
Meld is functionally super-old-school fusion
golden plover
True. But Meld is older than that, and it's never something they'd work into every set
The issue with them introducing an extra deck is the second they settle on one, it can never be undone
There's gonna have to be extra deck cards in every set (unless it gets skipped for a standard or something), and in legacy formats, the cards would exist forever
And imo companions have shown that an extra deck in magic is playing with fire for consistency
last glen
tbh what sort of ED-like mechanic could they do
that would not be better served (or at least, be worth adding a new mechanic) making into a new wave of Companions
golden plover
That's a good question
It could simply be something like synchros and the extra deck isn't public, unlike companions
If it's not creatures it gets a lot more open, but also has more chances to be problematic
It's hard to guess what form of ED they'd design for the game
last glen
what if they separate wish-and-wish-adjacent cards from the sideboard
and make it it's own thing
probably some ugly balance implications from that
but life finds a way, or something
golden plover
I feel like they would have done that years ago for commander tbh
Since Wish doesn't work there
The other theory is a reintroduction of "Planes"
Like planechase, but hopefully different
golden plover
They're an alt game mode that affects all players
copper pecan
i don't think they'll introduce planes to competitive formats
they have way too much variance
golden plover
wasn't around for that
So they're a separate deck that affects all players
You start on one, and you can roll a special dice to change it
Stuff like this
last glen
the return of non-legendary planeswalkers
that's my shit on the dark
last glen
Hmm
Curious
golden plover
I dunno, I don't feel like non-legendary planeswalkers is a big enough mechanical change
They could print a non-legendary walker in any set
last glen
MOM has the implications of more planar travel than usual
So I can see it being uniquely thematic there
golden plover
Definitely. Hence why I think it's something like planes
It'll be interesting to see regardless
I'm just hoping it's not something dumb like "UB cards can be printed in any set because the multiverse expanded"
hidden ermine
Non-legendary walkers also have a small design space honestly
golden plover
Yeah they'd just be weaker
last glen
Anyone wanna talk story?
I'm seeing a lot of speculation that Halo and the Living Cure character whose name I do not remember will be how they uncompleat characters
golden plover
Yeah I can see it
They set that up already both times, so it'd make sense they use them to undo it
The New Capenna story was bad, but it mentioned Halo being important
last glen
You think it's a full reset
Or they're still metal and oil but in control of themselves
sudden lava
why post this sideways 
golden plover
You think it's a full reset
Or they're still metal and oil but in control of the...
I could see either. Depends on the way they do the story
last glen
The real story
Will they split up Vraska and Jace after this storyline
last glen
but just think
what sort of card they could make their kid into
golden plover
That'd require a big timeskip
last glen
hardly impossible
and they could make those students into adults
golden plover
They haven't aged the characters since Lorwyn
I'd be surprised if we get a timeskip
zinc shard
uh, Klothys? you good?
copper pecan
hidden ermine
... whats the joke
lusty trench
He hongry
copper pecan
munching lad
golden plover
I wonder if he's Lukka's new weird pet
fallow citrus
I've heard people guess that lukka's going to get it as a pet, get compleated and then the pet is going to do something
but honestly who knows
golden plover
That or Lukka is a double agent
Working with Urabask or whatever
Also. it's weird it's the only phyrexian that's an artifact
It feels like they should have been all or nothing
fallow citrus
can't say I agree ¯_(ツ)_/¯
most phyrexians are compleated people or creatures anyway
golden plover
I mean there's way more mechanical looking phyrexians that aren't artifacts
So it's weird this one that's just a bug is
fallow citrus
could just be that they're made for the purpose of doing something
so they're an artifact from the ground up
golden plover
Maybe
lusty trench
||you had one job teferi||
golden plover
Oh it's a worse [[Blast Zone]]
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Land
Blast Zone enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it.
: Add 
.
, : Put X charge counters on Blast Zone.
, , Sacrifice Blast Zone: Destroy each nonland permanent with mana value equal to the number of charge counters on Blast Zone.
golden plover
I guess it's easier to put counters on than Blast Zone
fallow citrus
[[engineered explosives]]
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Artifact
Sunburst (This enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.)
, Sacrifice Engineered Explosives: Destroy each nonland permanent with mana value equal to the number of charge counters on Engineered Explosives.
lusty trench
||isn't this just a white bitterblossom?||
fallow citrus
[[oblivion stone]]
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Artifact
, : Put a fate counter on target permanent.
, , Sacrifice Oblivion Stone: Destroy each nonland permanent without a fate counter on it, then remove all fate counters from all permanents.
golden plover
||isn't this just a white bitterblossom?||
It's worse because it's missing flying
But it's in the same vein, yeah
lusty trench
I mean
fallow citrus
and the bitterblossom tokens can block
lusty trench
To me a token is a token
golden plover
That too
lusty trench
I'll take this either way
glad peak
||isn't this just a white bitterblossom?||
No, bitterblossom was good because of evasion and the ability to play defense
golden plover
A big reason bitterblossom saw play was the flying
And if you needed a cheap blocker every turn
glad peak
Losing blocking is not worth toxic 1
golden plover
I don't think it's unplayable. White is usually the token color in EDH after all
But I think it's probably gonna be relegated to standard and edh
lusty trench
Jesus they wanted to give black all the 4 drops huh
fallow citrus
They want to give black everything
golden plover
Maybe I'm missing something and it ends up being crazy in pioneer down the line
But I can't see where
Iirc bitterblossom isn't even seeing modern play now
golden plover
Yeah probably
But I can't see it anywhere else
I sorta wish the tokens were hasty
But I know white doesn't get that
trail anvil
Oh it's a worse [[Blast Zone]]
nah it's a better [[ratchet bomb]]
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Artifact
: Put a charge counter on Ratchet Bomb.
, Sacrifice Ratchet Bomb: Destroy each nonland permanent with mana value equal to the number of charge counters on Ratchet Bomb.
trail anvil
it can also scale quicker than ratchet bomb if there's stuff that adds oil tokens outside of proliferating
(note that it can hit tokens too)
twilit canyon
so can ratchet bomb
filigree sylex is still an upgraded ratchet bomb
both cards are also by all means much better blast zone too
but blast zone is a land so it gets special treatment
atomic harness
lusty trench
Anyone got good recommendations for a go shintai deck?
lusty trench
sudden lava
@lusty trench this
lusty trench
Ye I got that in there, always thought they were smoking a huge ass pipe
fallow citrus
[[sythis harvest hand]]
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fallow citrus
[[sanctum weaver]]
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Enchantment Creature — Dryad
: Add X mana of any one color, where X is the number of enchantments you control.
The arrival of spring's first flowers is a sacred occasion to Karametra's acolytes, who fill the Setessan woods with song in celebration.
0/2
lusty trench
Tis in there too, I should ideally make a deck list so I can show what's already there
fallow citrus
mayhap
sudden lava
lusty trench
Do I use all shrines or are some bad enough to cut
fallow citrus
pretty sure you can judge which are bad enough by reading them
lusty trench
https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b99ff81f-08d9-4b4a-a879-de5e5e402802....
Oh wow I assume this is like double digit money
sudden lava
38$
lusty trench
I'm assuming the mill ones
sudden lava
works with all your shrines being enchantments
lusty trench
Ye, I'll keep an eye out for a good deal on it
Is paradox haze worth putting in there?
lusty trench
oh do they trigger the original go shintai's shrine making too when they enter?
fallow citrus
so good shrines would be like
sudden lava
I think so?
fallow citrus
sanctums: calm waters, fruitful harvest, stone fangs, of all
honden: of life's web, of night's reach, of seeing winds, of infinite rage
go-shintai: ancient wars, boundless vigor, hidden cruelty, shared purpose
golden plover
Yeah I wouldn't play the blue go shintai
fallow citrus
there's a few of them just super mid
one gives you life in upkeep, meh
blue one mills, meh
tranquil light literally just taps a creature for, in the best case scenario, 1 white mana
lusty trench
Ya know, the shrines technically don't have creature types
I find this really odd tbh, like why hyphenate it
fallow citrus
[[zur, eternal schemer]] is a good one
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Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Flying
Enchantment creatures you control have deathtouch, lifelink, and hexproof.
: Target non-Aura enchantment you control becomes a creature in addition to its other types and has base power and base toughness each equal to its mana value.
1/4
lusty trench
ye both zurs are in
lusty trench
https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/1177787f-bf1e-438b-9615-97d03b04128c....
will keep this in mind too
fallow citrus
[[herald of the pantheon]]
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Creature — Centaur Shaman
Enchantment spells you cast cost less to cast.
Whenever you cast an enchantment spell, you gain 1 life.
The distinction of bearing the gods' banner is nothing compared to the glory of being closer to Nyx.
2/2
fallow citrus
[[starfield mystic]]
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Creature — Human Cleric
Enchantment spells you cast cost less to cast.
Whenever an enchantment you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Starfield Mystic.
"The realm of the gods opens before me!"
2/2
sudden lava
Could also do the channel land cycle from the neo kamigawa set
fallow citrus
[[ghen, arcanum weaver]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
, , Sacrifice an enchantment: Return target enchantment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
"Any apprentice with a spellbook and two sticks can churn out a fireball. This is different. This is art."
2/3
copper pecan
I find this really odd tbh, like why hyphenate it
subtypes have to go after a hyphen
fallow citrus
[[tuvasa the sunlit]]
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fallow citrus
you could play some theros gods too for enchantment synergy I guess
lusty trench
subtypes have to go after a hyphen
couldn't you just make it a super type?
lusty trench
https://scryfall.com/card/c18/47/tuvasa-the-sunlit
oh this is nice
unironically the cheapest idyllic tutor I could find was a foil secret lair one
fallow citrus
if you're playing enchantment tribal you just want to look for the advantage cards
[[reki history of kamigawa]]
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glad peak
Also add some stax pieces, [[rest in peace]], [[helm of obedience]], [[solitary confinement]]
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copper pecan
couldn't you just make it a super type?
they're not gonna do a functional errata for something like this when it's completely unnecessary to do so
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Artifact
, : Target opponent mills a card, then repeats this process until a creature card or X cards have been put into their graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If one or more creature cards were put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put one of them onto the battlefield under your control. X can't be 0.
lusty trench
how does helm of obedience work
glad peak
Then win the game with approach of the second sun alongside draw power and big mana
lusty trench
they're not gonna do a functional errata for something like this when it's compl...
I'm just stating what they should've done to begin with, hindsight is 20/20
glad peak
Rip + helm works as an instant “exile target deck”
lusty trench
ah I see
golden plover
You can even winter orb when you've got enough shrines out
glad peak
Depending on meta you can also run the ghostly prison that checks enchantments
lusty trench
Depending on meta you can also run the ghostly prison that checks enchantments
sphere of safety?
lusty trench
Consult thoracle
I'm staying away from alt wincons for now as I used them too much in my urza deck
mainly just want to drain them with shrines
god damn sanctum of all really do be a card huh
atomic harness
Are there budget alternatives to shadowspear by any chance 
copper pecan
loxodon warhammer if you're just running it for the lifelink + trample
twilit canyon
to actual shadowspear no
atomic harness
Yeah we can only use cheapo upgrades for the initial weeks
clever sun
Proxies are good and based
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hidden ermine
Its not quite the same, oddly enough
golden plover
Oh true
hidden ermine
This one prevents artifacts too
golden plover
It hits exile
atomic harness
Yee exile too
hidden ermine
Hard to evaluate though
atomic harness
and it's chonky
hidden ermine
It dies to more
atomic harness
seems cute
golden plover
Brain filled in the graffdigger's text when I started reading it
I'd argue it's worse than Graffdigger's or [[Drannith Magistrate]]
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golden plover
But it's probably not unplayable and might even see play in standard and maybe pioneer?
It's colorless and has better synergies than Magistrate
But it's also all players
Oh it doesn't hit creatures....
Hmmm....
This one is really hard to evaluate without seeing it in action
Also that's 59/60 rares
We've got one left
Dies to push, abrade, cut down, and unholy heat
But it's out of bolt range
hidden ermine
Oh, very odd niche thing: This doesnt stop escape
golden plover
Oh you're right
golden plover
So yeah, it's probably not insane in edh, but it's maybe modern playable?
I dunno what would want it tho
twilit canyon
How good is this? <@480437470870110209> <@970847564121395250>
mid
golden plover
I'd say it's probably above average for what it does, but I'm gonna have to see it in play tbh
It's better at being a general hoser than most of the common options, but it misses out on fully shutting them down and can be removed by every good removal spell
It might be cedh viable?
It's a backup magistrate that also hates gitrog?
This one is hard to evaluate
Oh wait you can grab it with Karn
Nah, yeah this card is good
Legacy friend is saying it's really good there too
golden plover
I'm really thinking it plays better than it reads
All permanents in graveyards is a big advantage over cage, and hating exile is nice
The issue is that it dies to basically every good removal spell
OH IT STOPS CASCADE
He also turns off iteration
Yeah, he's really good
atomic harness
interesting
golden plover
Also notable is that he walls off Ragavan
They can't connect with it, can't get its ability off if they do, and can't bolt him
I think this card is gonna end up being very good
last glen
0/4 is pretty respectable for a wall at CMC 2, no?
golden plover
Oh for sure
Like I said, you can't bolt it
It also blocks almost every early drop
last glen
white and white-plus control staple you think?
golden plover
Probably. I think it'll also see play in sideboards for a lot of things in pioneer, modern, legacy, and in the 99 of cedh decks
Hating gitrog, prosper, and cascade effects is huge
I was torn at first, but I'm unironically thinking it's a sideboard staple just about everywhere
last glen
[[Prosper]]
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lusty trench
[[prosper, tome bound]]
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golden plover
Since Gitrog likes those lands coming back
Doesn't hit him himself, but a lot of the stuff around him
[[Crucible of Worlds]] and the like
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golden plover
Also hits [[Food Chain]]
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golden plover
And every cascade, madness, adventure, and foretell card
last glen
wait is jailer double-sided
it is
so it will probably not go into Pioneer Azurios control
unless they drop Cruise/Dig
golden plover
Probably not, but it does kill Greasefang and Phoenix completely
atomic harness
I wanna try out this fella for my edh deck 
golden plover
And it wins you the devotion mirror
Unfortunately it doesn't stop creativity
But I'd genuinely be surprised if this card wasn't super fucking good
I definitely think it reads worse than it plays
glad peak
It seems
Fine
Randomly hits a couple things and triggers winota (assuming you’re playing commander)
But I don’t see how it’s better than some of the other options people use to fight cascade and breach in modern
golden plover
I think it's the fact that it hits a ton of relevant things
rigid scarab
@lusty trench Late but [[Genesis Wave]] autowins in Go Shinitai
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rigid scarab
This autowins in Go Shinitai decks
glad peak
I think it's the fact that it hits a ton of relevant things
It hits some relevant things but there are other options for most colors and even in the regular artifact slot, which this also hits since it’s not a threat
golden plover
So Jack Hughes said that he wasn't given a choice of cards for his SL. They just picked 4 and went "draw these"
lusty trench
So Jack Hughes said that he wasn't given a choice of cards for his SL. They just...
Yeah this makes sense
golden plover
Yup. Not surprising, just interesting to have it confirmed
lusty trench
"draw your favourite cards in magic"
"Oh I like these four" (cards worth more than $100 total)
"Um you're not allowed to do those ones"
"Why not?"
"We need to save reprint value for more products."
"I thought you didn't look at the secondary market?"
"..."
golden plover
They only don't when it's convenient to them
lusty trench
I'm super surprised they let the transformers secret lair do blightsteel but ig it was the only card of value there
copper pecan
did they ever actually say that they don't look at the secondary market
lusty trench
They're legally not allowed to acknowledge it iirc
Because if they recognise that the game pieces have value that could open up issues involving gambling
copper pecan
they've publicly acknowledged it in the past though
lusty trench
It's an odd thing but it's the stance they've taken
copper pecan
i remember them having an article about some misprint saying that "it sold for a lot of money on the secondary market"
lusty trench
I think that was fine because it was a misprint and thus not indicative of a usual game piece
golden plover
They've said prior they don't look at it for card prices
lusty trench
Not entirely sure though
golden plover
I think the distinction is that yeah
That if it's a misprint, they're not talking about the game pieces
But "we don't look at the secondary market" itself has lead to stuff like dockside being in Double Masters 2022 over Balder's Gate
copper pecan
22be is going great
hidden ermine
I have no idea what Im reading
copper pecan
hidden ermine
I see
copper pecan
sudden lava
Not real right?
golden plover
Obviously not
atomic harness
chat do I get wurmcoil 
twilit canyon
its kinda shit in commander
broken fjord
I have two and I don't put them in any decks.
atomic harness
Understandable
atomic harness
so this deck I'm playing likes to go wide and swarm a lot with artifact and artifact creatures to get affinity payoffs
I dont think our playgroup has access to super generic countermagic yet (usually conditional ones?)
in any case what should I do against board wipes, do I run stuff that protects my stuff or just go with countermagic and hold it for that? my colors are esper
or maybe something like swirling mist to phase out my stuff
atomic harness
Gonna try welding jar and march
clever sun
Counter magic is better against wipes for a blue deck
It can deny more than just the board wipe itself
atomic harness
Is it time to use spell pierce 
atomic harness
Counter magic is better against wipes for a blue deck
any suggestions in particular for which ones? 
clever sun
Spell Pierce is only good in cEDH
atomic harness
Oh only in comp play?
glad peak
And modern
clever sun
Yeah Modern too of course but in cEDH only because in casual play you really only have a really short period of time to use it
People will have a lot more mana and not a lot to use it on
Look for hard counters like [[Archmage's Charm]] or
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clever sun
Actual factual counterspell
atomic harness
Hmm yeah usually I noticed my buddy who does the oblivion stone play into crack usually has 3+ mana left still
clever sun
[[Mana Drain]] is great but expensive
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Instant
Counter target spell. At the beginning of your next main phase, add an amount of equal to that spell's mana value.
Enthusiasm is no match for preparation.
atomic harness
for stone I actually have to stop the initial casting right since counterspells dont work on its ability to yeet itself
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fallow citrus
I think you can stifle the crack though
atomic harness
interesting
What about negate?
even though I'm blue I dont actually have that many sources of blue
so looking for stuff thats 1U
fallow citrus
negate is fine
atomic harness
I was gonna ask about flusterstorm then I saw the price lmaoo
that card looks crazy though
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Instant
(
can be paid with either 
or 2 life.)
Counter target spell with mana value 1.
"Your first mistake was thinking I would let you live long enough to make a second." —Sarnvax, Gitaxian sective
atomic harness
I like that one but my buddy that organized our playgroup said it was too strong for us
same with gix probe
fallow citrus
yeah fair
atomic harness
yeah tbh im not really sure if what I'm doing is 100% correct I'm just having a lot of fun using oldfart artifact related cards from sets I like
it has been working
they're probably gonna target me next time we play since I bonked everyone with 11/11 karnstructs 😭
atomic harness
Yeah! it's the board wipe that seems to be the most common in our place
clever sun
Some decent stifles exist in casual
atomic harness
theres also like this anti token one that made me sad since he wiped out my myrs 
(some -1/-1 white thing)
clever sun
[[Tale's End]]
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atomic harness
Oh that looks nice
atomic harness
for commanders it doesnt out them tho right
fallow citrus
no it just stops that trigger
clever sun
That stifles or counters enchantments/artifacts I believe
clever sun
for commanders it doesnt out them tho right
Yes this can counter a commander
atomic harness
Oh WAIT legendary spell
clever sun
From resolving at least
atomic harness
so our friend group is this (we're all getting some upgrades soon)
super slightly upgraded urza's iron alliance ( renren)
R/G wolves precon I think
Markov precon
The mishra precon (probs the most dangerous one, he's the one who organized the playgroup and knows the most about magic)
Forces of the Imperium
Spirit Something (the one that poops out a lot of 1/1 spirit tokens)
Horror mill Captain En Gathrod precon
clever sun
A super interesting one btw is [[Ertai's Meddling]]
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clever sun
This is a fun casual counterspell
atomic harness
Oh thats funny, it just delays it?
clever sun
It doesn't actually counter a spell it delays it yes
atomic harness
that sounds like it can produce a lot of political memery
especially if you uh delay a board wipe
clever sun
But against some spells it just completely eats them cus they would have no target
fallow citrus
also [[delay]]
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clever sun
Delay is good too
atomic harness
Delay seems solid since three time counters is a lot of room yeah
clever sun
Both are good at stopping opposing counter magic
atomic harness
OH so like if you blank counter magic w it
clever sun
If you hit it with Delay or Meddling, they would have no target
atomic harness
clever sun
[[Protect the Negotiators]] iirc
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Instant
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
If this spell was kicked, create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays for each creature you control.
atomic harness
hmm since you're here mind if I ask if there's like a big artifact creature bungus payoff to go into? apparently wurmcoil probably isnt that great for the price
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Artifact Creature — Turtle Warrior
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Ward
Whenever an artifact enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on Kappa Cannoneer and it can't be blocked this turn.
4/4
atomic harness
ward 4 
clever sun
One of the best Artifact payoffs in Legacy
It's sure to be very powerful in Commander
atomic harness
Oh the counters are permanent too? just that it cant be blocked is the temporary thing. Might have to look into that
clever sun
[[Thought Monitor]]
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clever sun
Yes it has permanent +1/+1
clever sun
[[Thoughtcast]]
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Sorcery
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
Draw two cards.
Vedalken eyes don't see the beauty in things. They see only what those things can teach.
atomic harness
Cast I should prolly get, for some reason it's in the mishra one but not the urza and vice versa I think
clever sun
[[Sai, Master Thopterist]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, create a 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature token with flying.
, Sacrifice two artifacts: Draw a card.
"Industry without artistry is just a fancy way to fill the junkyard."
1/4
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Enchantment Land — Urza's Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — Urza's Saga gains ": Add ."
II — Urza's Saga gains ", : Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with 'This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.'"
III — Search your library for an artifact card with mana cost 
or , put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
atomic harness
yeah that one is a no go for now
Eventually though
clever sun
Wait do you have the actual good Urza too?
atomic harness
The blue urza? idts
clever sun
[[Urza, Lord High Artificer]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
When Urza, Lord High Artificer enters the battlefield, create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
Tap an untapped artifact you control: Add .
: Shuffle your library, then exile the top card. Until end of turn, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
1/4
atomic harness
Yeah we dont have the good urza
clever sun
I would recommend getting ahold of him
He's a relatively easy cEDH deck to build into and is a powerful enabler in the 99 of a casual deck
atomic harness
oh zamn i think it's out of budget for our restrictions
clever sun
Also it lets you run cards like [[Hurkyl's Recall]] for insane turns
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clever sun
Target yourself after floating a billion mana
Play everything right back out for value
Sai can eat the tokens that would fizzle out of existence
While Spell Pierce is not very strong, [[Metallic Rebuke]] is actually solid
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Instant
Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for .)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
"Too little, too late. The machine is in motion." —Tezzeret
clever sun
Cus you can pay just one mana for it
atomic harness
Oh wow that looks great, lemme try to find that
clever sun
I also think your deck should have [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]]
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Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.
When Emry, Lurker of the Loch enters the battlefield, mill four cards.
: Choose target artifact card in your graveyard. You may cast that card this turn. (You still pay its costs. Timing rules still apply.)
1/2
atomic harness
Aye so this is the stuff I'm planning to get
clever sun
Oh do you have [[Moonsnare Prototype]]?
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Artifact
, Tap an untapped artifact or creature you control: Add .
Channel — , Discard Moonsnare Prototype: The owner of target nonland permanent puts it on the top or bottom of their library.
clever sun
It's like Springleaf
atomic harness
Oh I dont think so
clever sun
Vapor Snag is medium in a format with [[Pongify]]
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clever sun
Fatal Push
atomic harness
for doomblades I'm never really sure which one you're supposed to get, does it depend on the playgroup
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clever sun
You are in White as well so [[Fateful Absence]]
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Instant
Destroy target creature or planeswalker. Its controller investigates. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
Sensing a plot, Sorin raced to his grandfather's resting-crypt. But someone else had gotten there first.
clever sun
Heartless has restrictions but is good too
atomic harness
Yeah I think even the remove counter thing will come up here
clever sun
This is for Esper Urza right
atomic harness
Yeah my commander is [[urza, chief artificer]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
Affinity for artifact creatures (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact creature you control.)
Artifact creatures you control have menace.
At the beginning of your end step, create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
4/5
clever sun
[[$Karn Scion of Urza]]
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atomic harness
atomic harness
I was a little worried about PWs since I feel like if I drop one they would basically kill it asap so I just get one trigger
but maybe w karn it's different
clever sun
Scion of Urza makes a big fat boy for ya
We call them Karnstructs
And Urza makes them every end step
Karn makes them too but also has card advantage built in
DMU Karn is good in other ways as ramp and then can dig deep for cards
But is also just not threatening enough to warrant aggroing him down
[[$Karn Living Legacy]]
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atomic harness
I think I can go for living legacy ye
a funny thing we discovered a while back is that ppl kept bonking my urza but then the commander tax doesnt matter because of affinity for artifact creatures
so he's always just UWB
clever sun
I will be honest, I can't think of much in White and Black that directly helps artifacts because I have never ran Esper for Affinity ever in my life
atomic harness
yeah this deck is kinda weird, most of the stuff I do is colorless
fallow citrus
only thing I can think off off the top of my head in black is uhh
[[reckoner's bargain]] [[deadly dispute]]
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Instant
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice an artifact or creature.
Draw two cards and create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"That's a pretty ring! Trade you my knife for it."
clever sun
Dispute is a solid call
atomic harness
Oh there's this white bungus in the precon that's kinda cool, got me pretty far
[[bronze guardian]]
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Artifact Creature — Golem
Double strike
Ward (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Other artifacts you control have ward .
Bronze Guardian's power is equal to the number of artifacts you control.
*/5
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clever sun
[[$Urza Lord Protector]]
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fallow citrus
do you have a list you can send ren
clever sun
Would be helpful to have a list yeah
atomic harness
clever sun
I was thinking more in terms of actually good lands
atomic harness
what comes to mind?
clever sun
Commander has access to the best lands easily
Battlebond Lands are amazing
Fetches, shocks
Rainbow lands
We also can run Ancient Tomb
Granted most of these are expensive
But worth it
atomic harness
Maybe not the tomb yeah
clever sun
Also proxies good
atomic harness
Our budget caps out at like 30 and the laddies dont wanna go w proxies
fallow citrus
sadge no proxies
clever sun
Hmm tough to work around then hmmm
Even more of a reason to not be Esper actually
Mana base for even 2c decks is tough
atomic harness
Yeah I've noticed that most of the time the colorless stuff is what carries me
etched champ steel overseer skullclamp etc
clever sun
And most of your upgrades are Blue and/or Colorless
atomic harness
Yeah 
I wonder what to do with the lands then
Only thing that came to mind is that I wanted to try out buried ruin
clever sun
Buried Ruin is fine
As for the lands, not sure how to fix this on a budget
without proxies at least
Maybe ask your friend group if proxy lands would be okay
For everyone of course
there is a huge difference between having perfect mana and tapped lands
atomic harness
Will do thanks
clever sun
Seems that
They have split a bundle into two for people who do not care for Drafting
So cheaper if you don't draft on Arena
trail anvil
https://imgur.com/a/VNxSYhi this week's top 5 seems pretty decent
this one in particular is really cool
oh wait this takes treasures and other tokens, this could never be realistically released nvm xd
if it said mana value 1 exactly or nontoken nonland then it'd be a really cool design space
golden plover
https://t.co/gFvGpu8o4a
This seems to imply that big change will also be mechanical:
In 2023, Magic will be forever changed
@copper pecan @hidden ermine
Or at least it will have an impact on more than just the lore
golden plover
Yeah, I seem to recall MaRo saying they were likely gonna add a new one, but I can't find that anywhere
But it does seem to be a mechanical change
twilit canyon
my hope: they finally change the mulligan rule atm to help play/draw differential
zinc shard
Something like if you go second you get a free mulligan?
copper pecan
subtypes on non-creature cards pls
trail anvil
I'm on board for more cards that have upsides going second too
trail anvil
judging by the fact that we have them in digital but not paper tells me they think it has memory issues
twilit canyon
it needs to be implemented in the core rules
trail anvil
but I feel like you should be able to remember who's on the play in your games
copper pecan
judging by the fact that we have them in digital but not paper tells me they thi...
based on my experience with custom sets it absolutely has memory issues
even when people know it's gonna be relevant they still forget
twilit canyon
hearing ppl struggle with dungeon/initiative
and day/night
i have 0 hope they will trust ppl to remember shit
copper pecan
yeah if day/night is too much for people to remember then who went first is definitely too much
copper pecan
okay but are you going to track that every single game
twilit canyon
there are dungeon tokens to have at all times too
and day/night tokens
ppl still forget
hell ppl put counters on cards to remember things and still forget
lusty trench
I forget my own triggers bruh I got brainrot
twilit canyon
i personally dont forget any of my own triggers if im playing with specific cards for events/tournaments
but in casual play id
idc
glad peak
Never have I had that sentiment until I played this other game my gf’s brother made us play and I missed a ton of triggers
hidden ermine
okay but are you going to track that every single game
I mean sure, why not
Flip a coin to see who goes first
Then the one who goes second gets the coin
Switch it around between games
twilit canyon
ppl will not remember this
glad peak
People most definitely won’t do this either
trail anvil
idk seems the same to me as day/night
fallow citrus
If there's something to track people won't shut up about how awful it is
golden plover
New Cedh commander dropped
burnt relic
granite badge
New Cedh commander dropped
omg I remember this
glad peak
Does ninjago have a competitive scene?
granite badge
if I remember correctly the ninjago trading cards were basically Bakugan
golden plover
That's a good question
granite badge
so not really
golden plover
Sensei Wu seems OP
granite badge
you don't build a "deck" the cards just kinda exist in a seperate pile and vibe
the actual game was lego beyblade with minifigs
(not kidding lmao)
glad peak
Bakugan had multiple comp scenes which all died horribly
sudden lava
Alphine is right, it is lego beyblade
and ya know whats funny, it has cards that let you yeet cards at your opponent's spinner.
dull halo
I haven’t played magic before, but I just received my dads 20k cards from 1997-2008. Here’s what he says is his flawless tournament deck in 2003.
granite badge
I haven’t played magic before, but I just received my dads 20k cards from 1997-2...
if he played from 1997-2008 I'd search for Power 9/OG Dual Lands in his collection
its possible he may have had more than a couple
my uncle used to play but my grandparents gave his collection to me
had 3-4 dual lands that I sold for almost $1000
a lot of random standouts too like a few alpha print cards
dull halo
Fair
I don’t think I’ll sell them tho
I love yugioh, so maybe I can get into magic too
And I think this will be a good start to get into magic
hidden ermine
Cards that old are only relevant in the format that costs thousands to get into
dull halo
When I say “get into magic” I don’t mean tournament settings
I mean like casual get togethers with friends and family
hidden ermine
Ah
In that case I'd still check for valuable cards to make sure you dont damage them
dull halo
Like, my family I play yugioh with, they all play magic more than yugioh
dull halo
In that case I'd still check for valuable cards to make sure you dont damage the...
That is true
I’ll prolly do that
hidden ermine
Definitely check the rares (golden set symbol)
hidden ermine
Ye
Or like
Its as the name implies, the set symbol (the thing to the right of the creature type) is gold
hidden ermine
Most of the super expensive cards are in that rarity
dull halo
Me and my cousins will probably go through all of the cards I got, and I’ll keep that in mind
hidden ermine
Though some lower rarity can be pricey too
dull halo
How will I know it’s gold on a holo card?
Example
Nvm
They can only be black, silver or gold
granite badge
dull halo
What TwT
dull halo
I have a whole holo sliver deck
granite badge
if you haven't yet I would recommend buying standard size penny sleeves
dull halo
granite badge
doubtless if the quality of the collection stays on par with this you're going to need to sleeve a LOT
dull halo
Yesyes
hidden ermine
Yeah so
Thats worth a not insignificant chunk
Especially in good condition
Definitely sleeve em up
There is a fourth rarity which is uh
A sort of orange-y red-y colour
Called mythic
Also look out for those, I just didnt think the timeframe you mentioned had mythics yet
This kinda colour
But yeah Id look up the prices for that whole holo deck, cuz some of them are like 10-ish bucks
dull halo
But yeah Id look up the prices for that whole holo deck, cuz some of them are li...
200 used 
Too bad I’ll be useding them
Sleeved ofc
Don’t want another accident such as myself
granite badge
200 used <a:dance:684381236155908099>
is it factory seeled or no
granite badge
alright then the box is worthless
dull halo
They’re all used
granite badge
you'd have to go by the individual card price
there's pretty much no market for opened boxes/product
too easy to scam people without it being factory sealed and unopened(not saying you would ofc)
dull halo
Only card I’m ever prolly selling, is gonna be black lotus if I even have it. So that way I can pay for an apartment 
Doubt i do tho
granite badge
if you do have any individual card worth over $100 you'd want to triple sleeve it and do a bunch of tests on it to confirm its legitimacy before you can sell it
dull halo
They’re all legit, I know that for a fact. My dad only played to have fun really, until his friend told him he was better than anyone he’s ever met
He also wouldn’t buy fake cards
I remember when I was a wee baby and he would come home with many booster packs and open them to see which cards he could fit in his decks TwT
also he played a lot of the online tcg on the 360 and original Xbox
He was a huge magic fan
Too bad he’s a shitty person, I don’t see him often anymore because I shut him out of my life :/
dull halo
Still prolly not selling them. But the ones I do sell, I will make sure they are real
atomic harness
@clever sun @fallow citrus I think you two already mentioned moonsnare prototype, is patch auto any good by any chance?
[[patchwork automaton]]
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Artifact Creature — Construct
Ward (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Patchwork Automaton.
It dwells happily near the ever-burning forges of Sokenzan City, crafting small things of beauty from discarded scraps.
1/1
atomic harness
Gotcha
fallow citrus
man I really am not sure what I want to play in modern
atomic harness
not murktide
fallow citrus
I mean if murktide were cheaper I probably would ngl
deck is solid
I'm looking at either prowess or zoo tbh
glad peak
Zoo is budget murktide so works
Depends on if you’re talking about 5c or bad zoo
Also wouldn’t recommend murktide as first deck to anyone
fallow citrus
5c for sure
glad peak
Countercat variant or cascade?
fallow citrus
countercat being the nishoba and wild nacatl one?
fallow citrus
yeah that one probs
hidden ermine
... what
lusty trench
Well we now know the mono red walker
lusty trench
There isn't one
Oh odd
golden plover
Our red walker is red/something else
lusty trench
Red black it is
I would've preferred if they made tevyar tibalt in disguise so that this isn't a lie
lusty trench
Like if lukka is no longer in it this is just a lie
Meanwhile if they made teyvar the one in disguise the kaldhiem part would've been true
lusty trench
Lmao they just take tybalts spark away cause they consider him annoying
Could be tybalt infiltrating elesh's base disguised as a phyrexian
Iirc he was working with vorinclex and that style of phyrexian conversion is more akin to one of elesh's followers
golden plover
Maybe he just dies really early because he pissed of Tyvar so he doesn't get a card
twilit canyon
we knew tibalt was phyrexianized most likely
remember in kaldheim he was given something by vorinclex and forced to work for him im guessing it started the process of compleation
languid quest
Tyvar doesn't seem happy about Tibalt in that picture
twilit canyon
they only have one side?
golden plover
Nah there's a blade that goes back too?
It's really weird and pointless
Gonna accidentally stab Chandra by moving his elbow
twilit canyon
oh
i thought u meant it had an edge on both sides
its probably pretty good at catching incoming attacks but its kind of impractical yea
waxen timber
Also the one side of the blade being the backside is weird. You can't slash people like a claw would
If you use them to block, the blade might get a chip on the sharp side
Like what you doing with it? Back hand slap slashes? Just stabbing with it(but then your hand might get stuck after a stab)?
glad peak
Huh that’s kind of cool
golden plover
It's Ixhel's POV
You're just also Ixhel?
Okay I see what they were going for, but it's weird
New Geth art
And new Atraxa
Mirrodin Phoenix thing
lusty trench
Something something evolve to crab
golden plover
The Phoenix is named Otharri and is legendary
Seems to have some sort of anti-compleation power?
golden plover
There's like 20 different anti-compleation powers at this point
One of them is bound to be relevant
golden plover
glad peak
Imagine tribal commander
twilit canyon
golden plover
Seems fine I guess
lusty trench
Looks like elesh got the other 3 on her side
Urabrask going "this shit again???"
Means tezzeret, ajani and tybalt are on the same team if we take this deal at face value
golden plover
Oh Urabask isnt out of the group, he's just a bit different about it
The new story but had his phyrexians compleat a resistance member
Ajani starting to look worse
zinc shard
So in a creature heavy deck Lukka essentially costs 2 mana and 2 life
fallow citrus
ajani just got done playing WoW
golden plover
I really hope we can get the compleated walkers back
fallow citrus
here's another story
also big art gallery for cards
holy shit this looks so good
all of this art is amazing
stuff like this
lusty trench
God damn almost everything in dominaria remastered is cheap
golden plover
You love to see it
lusty trench
Me about to pick up a mystic remora for checks prices £4 god damn
granite badge
Oh god glad I sold my remora's for $15+ a few years ago then
lusty trench
Tutors range from £30-£7
glad peak
Time to draft it
golden plover
So that DnD leak has interesting implications for magic too
The leak doesn't say anything particular other than Wotc explicitly saying they see customers as an obstacle to get to their money
glad peak
What’s the leak?
glad peak
Do we know who this was supposed to be sent to?
Because it’s reading like a low level employee sending an email to a higher up complaining about how their managers are shit
golden plover
Was supposed to be sent to an affiliated content creator from a middle level employee
atomic harness
Dumb question since it's been a while, but I can respond with either Soul Guide, Relic, or Crypt if the opponent uses a disturb card right? @twilit canyon @clever sun
This one fella is planning to cheese me with this instalose in 3 turns disturb card
I think I should be OK though since I have ways to exile the judge or stop it from hitting the field disturbed with my anti gy artifacts
twilit canyon
in response to the disturb cast?
atomic harness
Yeah
twilit canyon
[[malevolent hermit]]
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Creature — Human Wizard
, Sacrifice Malevolent Hermit: Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays .
Disturb (You may cast this card from your graveyard transformed for its disturb cost.)
2/1
Benevolent Geist
Creature — Spirit Wizard
Flying
Noncreature spells you control can't be countered.
If Benevolent Geist would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
All his old grudges suddenly seemed laughably petty. So he laughed.
2/2
twilit canyon
no
if they are casting it
its already on the stack
you can respond sure
but it wouldnt do anything to the disturb creature
it already left the grave into the stack
atomic harness
Oh does that mean I have to exile the gy before then
twilit canyon
yes
atomic harness
gotcha should be fine then still
for some reason my friend group is convinced that I have the strongest commander
clever sun
Misty answered ya
But I wanna point out: this is also true of anything with Escape or Flashback
But if something say
targets a card in a grave to give it Flashback/Disturb/Escape or whatnot
then it is fair game to Crypt their grave
Also of note
Unearth is an activated ability
Which means they can get hosed by GY hate like Crypt or Lantern
This is because Escape, Flashback, and Disturb are alternate casting costs
While Unearth is an activated ability
meaning the Unearth card will not go on the stack
@atomic harness
atomic harness
Thanks, good to know
fallow citrus
for some reason my friend group is convinced that I have the strongest commander...
what is everyone else playing?
atomic harness
what is everyone else playing?
This spirit girl that summons a lot more spirits UW (he won the second game)
This 4 colored commander that summons 2 thopters etb (he thoptered foundry sword otkd us earlier, peeps said it was fair because it was a 4 card combo
nobody had enough mana for counter spells so rip, no comment on that)
White Black Red Legendary menace thing that draws for each legend
The space marine one
Captain En Gathrod
I finished middle both games
so hopefully they dont pressure me as much anymore
fallow citrus
yoo thopter otk is cool
fallow citrus
kind of want to play it in modern but it's a little low powered
glad peak
You can still play thopter sword if you want
It’s not too underpowered and it randomly wins the matchup vs the deck a lot of people will be playing
Downside is that it’s not an infinite per say since you need mana for each loop so its win con is just a lot of fliers and lifegain
golden plover
Nahiri is like only sorta compleated?
She knows about it but it doesn't seem to be doing anything
Also the Wanderer just vanished completely immediately woops
glad peak
Welp the more I ruminate on it, Infect is not a good idea to build even with rotpriest
golden plover
Yeah Rotpriest isn't good for infect
Only thing I can see her in is maybe some form of storm deck
glad peak
No, rotpriest is great for infect, my problem is that the shell is too bad
golden plover
I dunno, I don't think Rotpriest does enough
And yeah, Nahiri can control her compleation it seems. I guess because she's a lithomancer?
glad peak
Rotpriest triggering on opponent’s removal patches up infect’s weakness a bit but even with that the math is 1-2 counters off with 1 pump
golden plover
So is she face or heel?
It looks like she's still working with the main group
glad peak
Infect itself is just bad 
golden plover
Also, Meliria outright confirmed she can undo compleation
I'm wondering if they're gonna pull the blackblade thing again tho
That'd suck, because the blackblade "twist" sucked
hidden ermine
Also the Wanderer just vanished completely immediately woops
... what
hidden ermine
... wow
golden plover
Yeah true, but it makes her story impact kinda shit
Also, they used this art for when Jace examined the Sylex
hidden ermine
She has to come back right
hidden ermine
Like they wouldnt hype her up and include her here only for her to fuck off before anything even started
fallow citrus
Yeah cause it's not like she fucked off on purpose