Things to cast with mountains in deck
#Magic the Gathering
fallow aspen
uhhhhhh
Just Red, and uhmmm...
Modern
(I know jackSHIT about Magic but I really like the colour red and I want to participate in an expo)
(Where they be playing Magic and Yugi)
glad peak
Blood moon, magus of the moon, ragavan, bolt, and good cards
Loses to random budget decks because they don’t care about blood moon
Alt: mono red prowess which is fine, dumpsters burn and you can add the moons and ragavan
fallow aspen
sheeee
glad peak
Red burn is super meh
twilit canyon
all burn is meh
glad peak
At least prowess has a couple good matchups
fallow aspen
Hmmm, in Yugi I like to play aggressive decks centered in combat
I s'ppose I would like to do the same in Magic
glad peak
So all decks 
fallow aspen
You can't do an OTK in Magic can you
glad peak
You can
twilit canyon
u can
fallow aspen
You can?
glad peak
It’s easier than it seems
fallow aspen
epic
glad peak
Just not as easy as yugioh
twilit canyon
its also better bc not everyone plays blue or hate cards but its harder to set up
glad peak
The downside to blood moon is that if the opponent has basic lands, they can still play the game
Hence why decks dedicated to it and nothing else loses to random budget decks
fallow aspen
Mono Red Aggro...
Costs 97 dollars
Which is far less than I had in mind
I used to hear that Magic decks were in the 400-500 dollar range
glad peak
This deck is just bad
glad peak
A good mono red deck would be around 400
glad peak
You have an aggro option and a midrange option for mono red, prowess is aggro
Blood moons is midrange (prowess runs some number in the sideboard sometimes)
fallow aspen
twilit canyon
[[murktide regent]]
glad peak
You say no to a lot of things, you kill things, you smack face
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Dragon
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for 
.)
Flying
Murktide Regent enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each instant and sorcery card exiled with it.
Whenever an instant or sorcery card leaves your graveyard, put a +1/+1 counter on Murktide Regent.
3/3
glad peak
Would never suggest as the first deck
twilit canyon
yea murktide is very fun but extremely complicated
twilit canyon
yes hence why i suggest burn/prowess
glad peak
I’d definitely suggest prowess
twilit canyon
may not be the absolute best but its infinitely cheaper
fallow aspen
Red Deck Wins...
glad peak
But prowess requires quite a lot of memorization
glad peak
Rdw is bad 
twilit canyon
oh kinda gross
fallow aspen
but it wins!
glad peak
That list is very close
fallow aspen
i t ' s i n t h e n a m e
twilit canyon
i dont like breach
twilit canyon
16 lands is also 
fallow aspen
I'm going to do a quick learning on what the hell is Magic and then choose the best Only Red deck
glad peak
switch breach for basic mountains
glad peak
The best modern mono red deck is gonna be $1k easy
twilit canyon
fury, moons, ragavans
fury and ragavan will run u about 300 for a playset of em
+500-700 or so from misc. pieces
glad peak
More like 450 for a playset of the 2
twilit canyon
[[$ragavan nimble pilferer]]
twilit canyon
[[$fury]]
lost widgetBOT
glad peak
Huh both went down
twilit canyon
yea i was thinking they had a bit
still about 400
@fallow aspen let me put together a prowess and burn list rq so u can see a budget list for them
glad peak
You can remove $293 or so from that list by playing mountains
fallow aspen
Thanks, back in the expo there was a star guest that was a developer for Magic, and a Magic tournament and stuff
And since I already have my Dragon Link in Yugi
Might as well have a Red in Magic
glad peak
Maybe try affinity then
twilit canyon
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9ig0DTLs70C5bCqQHsz_Yw
@fallow aspen
here this is prowess
glad peak
Yeah I like the burn one a lot less
fallow aspen
197 dollars...that's about 1 million pesos
Truly epic
I get 1 million pesos each month to use on my bidding, which i'll use in c a r d s
twilit canyon
burn is definitely less explosive but its more inevitable
trail anvil
consider, lol
fallow citrus
yeah p much
trail anvil
reflection of kiki-jiki is probably the best draw related card but it's not a spell so
fallow citrus
[[impulse]] in the right deck
lost widgetBOT
fallow citrus
well "draw"
twilit canyon
its fable of the mirror breaker
trail anvil
oh yeah whoops that's the flip side name 
trail anvil
twilit canyon
lol
zinc shard
👁️ 👁️
👄
copper pecan
hey guess which mtg card just got brought over to duel masters
trail anvil
I don't know Japanese
copper pecan
I don't know Japanese
it's fact or fiction
copper pecan
i love those cards tho
atomic harness
copper pecan
they're fun
atomic harness
(this is hyperbole)
but I'm really not a big fan, it just feels like bootleg hearthstone and those cards wouldn't exist in paper anyway
copper pecan
of course they don't exist in paper, that's the point
zinc shard
Spellbooks i dont have a problem with, but Specialize is just being complex for the sake of being complex
atomic harness
maybe I'm just a paper loyalist 
trail anvil
I didn't like specialize, yeah. the concept seemed cool then the execution bored me
atomic harness
the balance changes too and how it also poisoned historic
- the digital crap makes it unappealing
trail anvil
drafting from spellbooks is fine tbh, the biggest complaint I've seen with it is stuff like cursebound witch sneaking mythic and rare cards into hartisan
atomic harness
how am I supposed to enjoy my standard rotated cards when I have to deal with it being nerfed meanwhile Mr. Scrimblo that only exists in digital form rails me with power 9 cards or specialize or whatever
trail anvil
the bigger problem ig is there's historic brawl but no explorer brawl, but that said I don't think I see that many alchemy cards there to begin with
atomic harness
sure I suppose explorer exists, but why did they feel the need to have it affect historic to begin with
atomic harness
why couldn't like the changes just be alchemy only or whatever
copper pecan
sure I suppose explorer exists, but why did they feel the need to have it affect...
because people kept complaining about the meta being stale
literally all the time
atomic harness
why not hit cards then? 
copper pecan
how is hitting cards any better than nerfing them
i'd rather have cards be slightly weaker than have them be not legal at all
trail anvil
the better question was why were alchemy nerfs affecting historic
zinc shard
im fine with Alchemy cuz Explorer exists
trail anvil
when they're two separate formats
zinc shard
the better question was why were alchemy nerfs affecting historic
this tbh
atomic harness
crunch isn't that how they've dealt with issues in every other format 
trail anvil
in actuality though the nerfs usually didn't mean much iirc
but it just shouldn't happen
copper pecan
crunch isn't that how they've dealt with issues in every other format <:peepoThi...
so? this is a digital format, it doesn't need to be handled the way paper formats are, nor should it be
atomic harness
alright I'll concede that since it isn't a paper format, they're free to do what they want
explorer did help out in the whole historic issue
I just really dont like the whole bootleg-y hearthstone cards is all, it doesn't feel like mtg to me
especially when most of the digital mechanics is like hinga dinga go generate a card
copper pecan
people said that about literally every new mechanic that's even remotely out there
split cards, double faced cards, and planeswalkers all had the same complaint
atomic harness
oh but those are fine though
copper pecan
and so are digital cards
atomic harness
not to me at least, but it's fine if ppl like them
I also dont usually mind any of the new keywords they introduce in usual expansions. blitz and connive are really fun
Enlist feels like better banding
Read Ahead is interesting (although I do agree with snow it probably could've just been worded differently or called smth else) that has some tradeoffs regarding how youd use your saga
since you lose value for immediate power if you skip to the stronger effects etc
daybound/nightbound are sick
dungeons were alright
twilit canyon
digital cards are infinitely superior to paper cards
and paper card games are an outdated concept
paper will never truly be better to digital
its the honest fact
not only do you avoid cheating, you avoid improper shuffling and get true randomization
i also think that for magic at least
people are extremely telling on themselves for desiring paper play so much in spite of the flaws and then molding those flaws into digital
because those flaws dont actually exist in digital but they exist in paper
things like a rigged shuffler
or things like "no true variance"
fallow citrus
tbh the only reason I prefer paper is I like how the cards feel to play
the game doesn't feel satisfying to me online
atomic harness
yeah physical play is often a lot more enjoyable, I dont really have much of an argument about the other points
I just dont like the seek/perpetually/specialize stuff, maybe I'll come around to it in the future
but for now not a fan
twilit canyon
those mechanics all do a lot to fix issues magic players have always had with magic
funnily enough
atomic harness
rly?
glad peak
I remember when people thought split cards were printing errors and bad for the game
twilit canyon
all the digital designs are created to fix issues magic players have always had that wotc cant fix in paper
because magic is a paper game
one of the worst feelings in magic is mana floods or screws
seek fixes this in a way that they cant print in paper
perpetual fixes another big thing people usually dislike
good chunk of magic players love interacting with zones outside of the field and love building up creatures or making them stronger but auras and ability/+1/+1 counters are all very tangible and never permanent
and its extremely clunky to get these things to work in paper without making these cards absurdly good
and even if you do make them good there is only so much viability out of them bc a simple bounce spell or a kill spell will just eliminate all of the work put in
specialize fixes another big problem magic players have with flip cards
atomic harness
for seek, how does it deal with screwing/flood? does it let you seek out lands in a jam or get you something that unclogs multiple lands when that happens?
twilit canyon
seeks a land without it being broken
then it finds a nonland card too
without making it broken
imagine if this was printed in paper
it would read
search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. then search your library for a permanent card with mana value equal to the number of lands you control.
this has not shuffled your library yet
this gave you 2 tutors
for extremely specific cards now
3 mana search 2
this card would be insanely busted
and the thing is we got a similar card in paper and its unplayable because it needs to fit paper restrictions
[[dig up]]
lost widgetBOT
Sorcery
Cleave 
(You may cast this spell for its cleave cost. If you do, remove the words in square brackets.)
Search your library for a [basic land] card, [reveal it,] put it into your hand, then shuffle.
Things buried on Innistrad rarely seem to stay that way.
atomic harness
does them being random (the game choosing for you) keep it from being busted?
although I suppose you definitely play differently since now you have to account for possible outs that werent there before because seek gave it to em?
twilit canyon
yes
seek is better than a random draw
but way weaker than a tutor
and that makes a huge differenec
*difference
but it also patches up issues
you can make a card seek over draw so that it eliminates variance in a card
but you can control how many cards seek lands so that draw spells are still important
seek adds a ton of nuance to deckbuilding
and it can even allow you to play fun combos
[[fragment reality]]
twilit canyon
[[leyline binding]]
lost widgetBOT
Enchantment
Flash
Domain — This spell costs less to cast for each basic land type among lands you control.
When Leyline Binding enters the battlefield, exile target nonland permanent an opponent controls until Leyline Binding leaves the battlefield.
twilit canyon
and you build it so that you can on turn 2 cheat in a 5 drop guaranteed
you can even control the exact 5 drop
atomic harness
does that not sound a bit much
twilit canyon
but that is a whole deck
you cant have any other creatures
you need to have wubrg lands
this also then limiting itself to creatures does a lot of work to keep it balanced
again the restriction of 1 mana removal spells is so so constrained in paper
but digital allows them to play with it like frag reality
since its narrow, can be used to combo on your end, or can be used to punish an opponents 1 drops
atomic harness
I see
the amount of control /power these things have and how it warps deckbuilding is an extremely scary prospect to me personally, maybe I'm just not a fan of these because they aren't what I'm used to
like for a W doing all of that feels absurd
best I can do is have my B hit a chunky 2/3 drop or whatever
twilit canyon
its not any crazier than what 1 mana blue cards have been doing
brainstorm is still the most complicated cantrip in the game
by a long shot
there are optimal times to use it
there are optimal ways to take advantage of the put 2 back
same with thoughtseize actually it is far far more complicated for a single black mana
the white 1 mana spells that have this complexity cant exist in paper bc they would be extremely broken even compared to these 2
brainstorm can be perfect fixing, selection, even a tutor
thoughtseize can set up combos, win the game, or discard yourself to reanimate something
among other things
a white 1 mana spell at this power level would need to do what balance does for instance or have a lot of mechanical depth
and would be too good in paper
but regardless
atomic harness
surely kozilek/thoughtseize are a lot less egregious then unga bunga exile anything and then give them a random bungus
twilit canyon
no
thoughtseize is 1 of the most powerful 1 mana spells ever printed
inquisition of kozilek is worse than ts
cus u cant iok target yourself -> discard griselbrand -> cast reanimate on griselbrand
but you can do this with thoughtseize
fallow citrus
t1 thoughtseize is aids to play against and also if you mulligan then get hit with it lol
glad peak
Thoughtseize is hella more egregious than unga bunga exile
twilit canyon
the power level fear of digital only cards is silly when compared to the finest and most powerful this game has created in paper
atomic harness
I probably could've worded that better
like yeah it's hella degen but it exists in paper
whats stopping them from making a paper removal thing for W without it having to be busted up, the color pie?
twilit canyon
[[swords to plowshares]]
atomic harness
yeah STP I was gonna ask about that
fallow citrus
[[path to exile]]
twilit canyon
infinitely more powerful
you either change the "downside" or you remove what it can hit
in paper this would let you search for a specific creature with lesser mana value
no shuffle
these cards are made with elegance
atomic harness
why do the digi cards have to be that pushed? and why does it have to be comparable with the game's heaviest hitters like thoughtseize or brainstorm to exist
twilit canyon
they arent just emulating hearthstone or whatnot
thats the fun part is that a ton of digital cards are not pushed
atomic harness
is it just these few examples
twilit canyon
they have to keep buffing a fair bit of them
yes
but also they are released in much smaller card packs so
they are also made with existing meta in mind
hence why they are actually able to usually at least do something
diviner of fates is a good example
it was just further expanding on esper midrange that already existed in standard
but in the end they arent any more impactful than the average release of playable paper cards
the thing that is getting people is that they arent used to seeing the overall group of what wotc thinks will be playable cards in a set condensed to the 25-27 alchemy cards per drop
if we condensed all the dmu cards that are meta playable in standard rn
it would fit into an alchemy card drop
like overall alchemy gives u way more actually playable cards than a regular magic set ever does
and even if a card misses
either too good or too weak
it can be adjusted
like out of the recent alchemy dmu drop
i think 4 cards could use a buff
and they arent even the worst cards they are just not quite there yet
[[diminished returner]]
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Creature — Phyrexian Skeleton
Diminished Returner enters the battlefield tapped.
: Diminished Returner perpetually gets -1/-1, then return it to the battlefield. Activate only if Diminished Returner is in your graveyard and its toughness is 2 or greater.
4/3
twilit canyon
could probably just do -0/-1
and buff to a 4/4
just so you actually get a few more chances to bring it back
[[marwyn's kindred]]
twilit canyon
should come with some sort of way to bring himself back from the dead too
and [[tiana, angelic mechanic]]
twilit canyon
was made way too safe with its mana and toughness
could give her vigilance or maybe have her untap herself if she crews something as well
or heck let her seek a vehicle
or draft a vehicle and give her a spellbook of solid vehicles to draft
hell maybe conjure the weatherlight
compare this to the 120 cards or so in dmu that are just unplayable
atomic harness
I can't deny that the digital cards do a lot right in this regard (if their stuff is released poopy it can always be made better or if it's too much it can be fixed)
and I don't have much of a horse in this race considering I've only been playing a short amount of time
but paper probably shouldn't be roasted as much or be deemed completely inferior/obsolete when it's still their biggest cash cow and paper play is still an experience in its own right
I'll get around these digital stuff eventually, so thanks for humoring me both crunch and mist
sorry if I sounded sharp in any of my responses earlier (especially with the whole "durr why not just ban cards" or the power 9 thing which apparently isnt very good anyway)
@copper pecan
twilit canyon
oracle of the alpha is a very strong card but its not a meta defining card
also i disagree
i think paper card games as a whole
are outdated
at least for anyone who is serious about competing or playing them at a serious level
atomic harness
is that why they're trying to push for modern in MTGA or the 4 player commander questions in their survey?
not sure if the client could handle it tho
atomic harness
also the wcs for edh 
twilit canyon
commander just bc its a very desired feature
oh actually nah
commander would be very cheap on arena
same with modern
atomic harness
oh hm?
twilit canyon
yes
something that ppl gaslit themselves on is that mtga is somehow more expensive than paper
or mtgo
when this is decidedly not true
atomic harness
well its like
people are already insanely starved for rares right
what more when like youd probably have more rares in the 99
twilit canyon
modern murktide would only cost you about
150$ on arena
28-30 rares
8-9 mythics
14 uncommons and 19 commons
compared to $1,100 in paper
or $670 on mtgo
if you just ignore the rare starvation and think of it in the sense that you can just buy a deck on mtga by buying packs
it is just cheaper
like a lot a lot cheaper
atomic harness
good point
just mostly concerned about the rare issue being a tough hurdle
twilit canyon
the rare issue only exists for full on f2p
if you are buying packs the rare issue disappears unless u are crafting every last deck you come across
which
for modern
you would very likely need to buy packs
atomic harness
atomic harness
that's good
twilit canyon
this is the big reason wotc has been dragging their feet with non-rotating formats on arena
cus they know not only will it be a lot of cards to add it will absolutely be cheaper than paper
clever sun
I do think reading back on this convo
Paper Magic is a casual thing
It definitely should not be the future of competitive Magic
I also think that player's aversion to Alchemy and digital-only designs are insanely silly
It is also a surprisingly small minority of players that really hate Alchemy
The Alchemy channel in the official WotC discord is the third most active format channel
Behind Standard and Explorer
And Commander actually
It is Commander > Standard > Alchemy/Explorer > Historic
atomic harness
Nyaruhodo
I'm a bit more open to digital stuff now that we've had this convo
clever sun
I will say
Besides a few misses
All the Alchemy designs have been done well
Alchemy/Digital-only in general
Draft is a really cool way to make a card draw a card without making it absurd while also making sure the card actually does something with what you are drawing
and it gives life to some usually unplayable cards
[[Cursebound Witch]]
clever sun
A lot of the cards she can Draft are very useful but you wouldn't wanna add them to your deck
Now if they are free? Different story
Conjure is a well constructed mechanic as well
Cards that would otherwise be broken are fixed by making them conjure
Still feels powerful but not as overbearing as it otherwise would
and it can eliminate feel-bad moments
[[Vodalian Tide Mage]]
clever sun
A recent example
If this card made tokens of a card, the token would have to ETB so it would lead to some real shenanigans or it would be super unrewarding to lose the token to say a Fading Hope
atomic harness
ty everyone for enlightening me
guess I should uh start trying out path of peril or depopulate
oh I heard malicious malfunction could be cool
Nyaruhodo
lusty trench
The power of angels is nothing compared to the average elf tribe
zinc shard
lusty trench
Idk how green players do it man, I don't even like searching my library when using tutors how tf do y'all manage to be bothered to shuffle up an 100 card double sleeved deck for a forest
glad peak
As a modern player: I don’t know how you can play without shuffling every turn
lusty trench
100 double sleeved cards is heavy for my weak noodle arms
lusty trench
...just realised I can make esper aristocrats in edh now
I've made the deck
It is a glorious dumpster fire
And I have just realised the power of marneus Calgar and smothering tithe
If they don't pay the two I draw a card and get a treasure
copper pecan
wow the bottom 5 is really bad this week
love the card with 13 lines of effect text and 2 lines of flavor text
atomic harness
mindwalk loool
copper pecan
as someone who studied programming for 2 and a half years, the unclosed parentheses bothers me more than it should
atomic harness
mood
hidden ermine
Wow this is ... a week
fallow citrus
I cant get over someone describing what the truffle inspector does as "pigtouch"
trail anvil
wow last card actually just didn't try
like straight up
also what actually is the point of that elf, why does it randomly have an ability to exile itself
waxen timber
The exile ability is to sacrifice all of the tokens you have to do a burst of damage(since it triggers off the sacrifice of tokens)
trail anvil
I see
languid quest
atomic harness
@twilit canyon @clever sun I'm playing budget blue deck loses 
I just pieced together what I had already
twilit canyon
nice
atomic harness
a lot of the choices are prolly wrong tho like the heavier ones
this is pretty fun
trail anvil
shit you just made me think how many rares and mythics I invested into monored lmao
I remember when this deck type was budget
trail anvil
I really wanted to get back into aggro after meathook ban and it's been treating me well, so wildcards well spent tbh
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
[[cemetery gatekeeper]]
atomic harness
Uhh which formats have bolt by the way
trail anvil
uh historic brawl, on arena
for some reason wizards thinks bolt is too strong for historic iirc
atomic harness
is it 👀
trail anvil
don't think so lol, 1 more damage is strong for red but to my knowledge historic has some pretty fuckin strong stuff
while dragon's rage channeler is a super strong 1-drop for monored, I don't think it pushes it to tier 0 status or anything
clever sun
while dragon's rage channeler is a super strong 1-drop for monored, I don't thin...
Only reason Historic doesn't get Bolt atm is because they are afraid of the Bolt problem
atomic harness
oo whats that
clever sun
Bolt creates a situation where Red burn/removal is so efficient it pushes out certain decks from meta relevance
Especially at instant speed
Now
I personally don't think we could have a Bolt problem in Historic
Lord knows we have a billion great one mana instant removal spells in this format already
But Wizards would rather be careful you know?
Also I have a feeling they think they would be pushing it cus Bolt (and counterspell) their only printings are at Rare on Arena
trail anvil
could "unsuspend" it
clever sun
And if they introduce either card they would rather put them into their common rarity they properly have
atomic harness
trail anvil
i.e. give it a test run
clever sun
Oh I think Bolt is totally fine
We have Fatal Push, March of Otherworldly Light, Fragment Reality, Cut Down, Unholy Heat
atomic harness
cut down 
clever sun
Bolt wouldn't be the best removal spell
clever sun
I actually think a good chunk of the banned Archive cards could be unbanned now
trail anvil
oh christ is unholy heat still legal?
clever sun
Only notable ones I can think of are the obvious broken cards
atomic harness
[[unholy heat]]
lusty trench
Unholy heat is one of those cards I had to do a triple check on cause I didn't know if it was an actual card
clever sun
[[A-Unholy Heat]]
trail anvil
guess bot is hiccuping
clever sun
They ticked down two damage off it but the card still feels insanely unfair at one mana at instant speed
For how easy it is to enable
It might as well be Doom Blade
It just now doesn't also kill every Planeswalker ever outside of Karn Liberated and Tibalt Cosmic Imposter and some ridiculous stuff like Elder Gargaroth
Or for Historic, Calim
trail anvil
a 1 mana card answering calim sounds hilariously fucked lol
clever sun
That was Unholy Heat versus Elder Gargaroth
You know there was a time Gargaroth saw a bit of Modern play
Unholy Heat ensures that will never happen again
atomic harness
bolt's upside over the crazier removals is that it can hit face though right
atomic harness
We have Fatal Push, March of Otherworldly Light, Fragment Reality, Cut Down, Unh...
vs these
clever sun
Though the reason Bolt was so effective is that it used to also kill walkers
Nowdays everything hits walkers too
Well not everything but a lot of spells do
Stuff like Fateful Absence, Eliminate, Molten Impact, Bloodchief's Thirst
Even fight spells have started hitting walkers
Or bounce spells like Rona's Vortex
shit even random disenchants are hitting walkers now like Tear Assunder
trail anvil
tear asunder is one hell of a card
clever sun
It's actually so good
trail anvil
it also seems a lot stronger on paper than in practice
but that's still pretty strong
clever sun
No no like if there were better slow Green decks
It would be 100% in there
Affinity giving you trouble? Stone Rain them for two mana
Unfortunately the Midrange decks in Historic are Red
And Red has [[Shatterstorm]]
trail anvil
oh I have no idea about historic lol, I was thinking more in standard where it would normally answer a lot of sagas, but a ton of enchantments in standard provide value etb
or at least at the end of the turn they're played
atomic harness
Oh bct is good in historic?
I thought itd be outdone by push and cut down, is it because of the walker and the kicker?
clever sun
Oh yeah in Standard it misses out
trail anvil
I'd imagine push would be the premium removal spell
clever sun
Oh bct is good in historic? <:pogofgreed:562491300432314369>
BCT?
trail anvil
blood chief's thirst
clever sun
Oh duh
And yes
It is solid
Push is the premier removal in Black
Every color has decent balance in removal right now
Black: Push, Thirst, Infernal Grasp and the one million Doom Blade variants, Murderous Rider (niche)
atomic harness
I'm getting nostalgic for some of those 
clever sun
White: March, Fragment Reality, Fateful Absence, Destroy Evil, Skyclave, Cathar
Blue: Archmage's Charm, Rona's Vortex, Make Disappear and Undersimplify, Spell Pierce, Fading Hope
trail anvil
doesn't white have that alchemy board wipe too
trail anvil
ah
trail anvil
what's even meta in historic rn, I can't find many meaningful tournament results
clever sun
But the Affinity match up is impossible without White and sometimes even with White
Historic tournaments have slowed down
Since paper tournaments are much more common again
It's way more profitable to run a paper tournament where you can charge like $100 entry fee
Or you can be Legacy Pit and charge $250 🥲
trail anvil
makes sense, I see some pioneer tournaments too
clever sun
There have been a lot of paper $1Ks
All of them are charging a ridiculous amount
For entry
trail anvil
oof
clever sun
And people are buying
You can't charge that on Arena
People set a precedent of $10
$50 at most
But the Historic meta is very healthy anyhow
Tier one would definitely include Affinity
Both Boros and Azorius
Izzet Wizards
Rakdos Midrange
I also think Grixis Pact is the best deck no one plays
trail anvil
azorius like control with archmage's charm?
clever sun
Tier two decks would be things like Auras, Greasefang
Jund Midrange
Azorius Control are doing Charm yes but I have tried Grixis Control, Dimir Control
Oh fuck lol
Right I forgot
Historic is also heavy on tribal decks
Merfolk and Goblins are solid tier one
trail anvil
oh yeah goblins are combo right
clever sun
Humans are a solid tier two
Goblins are always a scrappy Midrange deck
Muxus lets them just explode
Though the new Goblin lord also potentially lets us play out our entire deck
Goblin Influx Array and Fable also warrant just dropping Muxus
And going full Midrange value
clever sun
Yes
Elves, Shamans, Angels
All solid tier three
Merfolk are just very strong against sweepers and the new Vodalian Tide Shaper lets them accrue meaningful card advantage
Against Islands it is a bit broken
But just getting a good attack in overall will feel overpowered in some spots
Merfolk are the best Company deck atm and none of the other CoCo decks are close
Like yes Humans are technically tier two but there is reason enough to have them drop Company
Cus it conflicts with Thalia a lot
Shamans and Elves are explosive but frail against common sweepers
And unlike Merfolk with Hexcatcher they have no insurance
The other tier three decks would be stuff like Winota
Control
Death's Shadow
Death's Shadow is struggling hard atm
All the tribal decks are not good for Shadow
Shadow always struggles against tribes
But in Historic without Bolt Shadow is real rough against tribal
That doesn't mean you can't bully other decks out of wins
And sometimed you play versus Elves or Shamans
atomic harness
Just blew tf out of diamond wg enchantments with walmart rdw 
I elder dragoned for game 
Im playing this weird 2/2 griller that transforms herself when I use a burn spell
Just blitzed esper with kumano chick kumano chick 
I shouldve played this sooner im having so much fun
fallow citrus
I tried domain zoo out earlier and I love how dumb the deck feels at times
in modern ofc
atomic harness
He was on 6 I had two playing with fires in hand and a nix chick on the field
He TWE'd my shivan devastator
so uhh I double scryd and hit two mountains so I had to hope I drew one of my many burn spells
got the funniest one
atomic harness
twilit canyon
:ez:
atomic harness
Blue deck loses.
atomic harness
from d4 to d2 in one day I'll take it 
twilit canyon
it be like that yea
when i hit diamond i usually get out of diamond about a day or 2 after
hidden ermine
Ah, that makes sense
Also
That Yeti is the most commander design I have ever seen
"Oh you can pay 3 colours of mana for this effect."
copper pecan
the classic off color activated ability for the sake of color identity
imagine if they introduced tribrid mana for that
twilit canyon
that does just look like a tear card
copper pecan
actually nvm if it was a tearlament card it would have dredge 3 or some shit like that
clever sun
TRON
hidden ermine
I mean, Tearlaments are not the most ... inspired design YGOs had
lusty trench
Ardoz looks really neat
trail anvil
kiki jiki will be fun
lusty trench
Lemme just
Was gonna edit the common symbol onto the Tron lands but it's nearly 2am and cannot be bothered to
glad peak
The phyrexia symbol or just a common symbol?
Because tron lands already have a common symbol on them
lusty trench
Because tron lands already have a common symbol on them
Damn didn't know they were printed at common
glad peak
Yep they were a big pauper threat for a long time and still might be
I haven’t really been paying attention to that format
lusty trench
atomic harness
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945646524710942/1032802507296079892/...
sudden lava
copper pecan
god i hate how many racist weirdos are coming out of the woodworks because of anime coldsteel heart
people are acting like this is hypersexualized or something when it absolutely isn't
twilit canyon
racist weirdos? 
glad peak
Wait people don’t like the new art?
All I’ve seen is support for it
Someone came to my lgs with the fabled liliana chandra spicy art playmat
She was a lovely lady who happened to like that, don’t judge
copper pecan
people will see an anime girl and be like "haha japanese people are pedos" and it's genuinely sickening that people act like this
like this is less sexualized than literally every liliana card
and nobody complains about those
glad peak
About that
glad peak
I still remember people saying heretical healer lili was too sexualized
twilit canyon
and of an artist drawing chandra and lili making out
glad peak
And she’s fully clothed
I still have no idea why women who look youthful is considered pedo art
twilit canyon
there is a difference between sexualizing minors in art and just drawing young characters
lusty trench
I have made a decision
I'm building +1+1 counter atraxa
No infect, minimal planeswalkers
trail anvil
does the post malone concert event force certain matchups or are a crazy amount of people on elly
copper pecan
it forces it so that you don't get mirror matches
but other than that i don't think it forces specific matchups
i think the elly deck is just better than the other ones
zinc shard
zinc shard
Jesus the Korlessa deck sucks
lusty trench
Anyone know what the best options to pick value wise are?
lusty trench
what's available
I don't know, they said they'll give me a list
zinc shard
I think the cat one and the one with Sliver Overlord, Ur Dragon and Reaper King held their value pretty well
lusty trench
Anyone got some good cards to include in atraxa
My decks feeling light on counters matter cards but that might be because I tried to mash as many staples as I could in it
zinc shard
+1/+1 counters or counters in general?
lusty trench
Generally +1/+1 counters but if the cards good enough I don't mind breaking theme
zinc shard
[[Herald of Secret Streams]] is a funny one
lusty trench
Seems good
twilit canyon
i am now $2.5k richer
lusty trench
I've thought of a character who I wouldn't mind becoming a planeswalker
Not in like the most recent sets just in general
Pir
His imagination abilities are neat and it'd be cool to see in the planeswalker design space
zinc shard
trail anvil
twilit canyon
new ways to get loyalty counters huh
lusty trench
Went to a magic event today, cost £5, my promo pack had a bootleggers stash and a ledger shredder
hidden ermine
A card that says "end the turn" huh
Probably some kind of boardwipe?
And I assume Teferi is in the set because of time travel shenanigans?
glad peak
That’s not what he’s talking about, but yes he’s in because of time travel
twilit canyon
And I assume Teferi is in the set because of time travel shenanigans?
end of dmu he finds an artifact built by urza that allows him to power up his time magic to travel back in time
hidden ermine
I guess that makes sense
twilit canyon
hes going back strictly to observe how to fire the golgothian sylex
hidden ermine
Dont like that Teferi, mister "dont mess with time it goes poorly", is now using time travel, but meh, whatever
I give a 95% chance they dont just observe by the end of it
twilit canyon
probs not
but the coalition is desperate
they lost jaya and ajani and karn was captured again
and only bc of saheeli did they manage to salvage the sylex
twilit canyon
it wasnt unceremonious
glad peak
Can’t remember if she got a card off it
twilit canyon
she got her best walker card + a lot of story spotlight and attention over it
[[extinguish the flame]]
lost widgetBOT
twilit canyon
[[extinguish the fire]]
lost widgetBOT
glad peak
[[extinguish the]]
lost widgetBOT
hidden ermine
I mean compared to how Gideons death was handled, it was kinda unceremonious tbh
Ajani gets compleated, and she gets killed off as shock value
glad peak
Huh she did get a card
twilit canyon
[[extinguish the light]]
glad peak
I fully expected her to not get a card like that one lrr skit
hidden ermine
Like her death was one paragraph
glad peak
“Are you saying Jaya isn’t important?”
“May be I am”
twilit canyon
yea she was involved in the whope story tho
glad peak
twilit canyon
they also did a memorial for her at the end
hidden ermine
I mean I know she was, and thats cool, I just dont like how her death was handled
twilit canyon
and had a whole website with a eulogy for her death
hidden ermine
Or for that matter that they killed her as shock value
Like she didn't die in some blazing last stand, or in some grand self-sacrifice like Gideon
She died when Ajani turned and backstabbed her, before tossing her off the edge
twilit canyon
it wasnt really shock value
gideon also died pointlessly really it was either him or liliana and he chose himself
remember he failed all his assaults vs bolas
hidden ermine
Sure, but it was at least a heroic self-sacrifice
twilit canyon
jaya was fighting to win a war too
like dont get me wrong i am not happy that jaya was brought back did nothing outside of dominaria stories and then died during a dominaria story
but saying her death was done poorly is incorrect
hidden ermine
jaya was fighting to win a war too
Sure, but thats not relevant to the scene of her death, where she just gets stabbed in the back and tossed off the edge
She barely even fights back
Karn and Teferi even have more agency in her death scene than she does
hidden ermine
Like the scene goes as this
Ajani compleates
Jaya turns and tries to run
Immediately gets an axe in her back
Karn and Teferi try to stop Ajani while Jaya is already dying, fail, then Ajani kills Jaya and tosses her off the edge
twilit canyon
ajani was compleated a long time before
hidden ermine
Reveals that he is compleated
I dont know what to call the process
Either way, Jaya just straight up gets axed immediately after Ajani transforms to show that shit is serious now
Without even any resistance
twilit canyon
yes she was backstabbed by ajani
thats
thats how backstabbing works
you catch a group off guard
hidden ermine
And this kind of plot is done for shock value, to illustrate that the traitor is serious business
Plus its not even exactly true she was backstabbed
twilit canyon
ajani spent the whole story after getting compleated resisting until he realizes his values allign with phyrexia in a twisted way
hidden ermine
She just ... runs after seeing that Ajani is compleated
And gets hit immediately after she tries to run
twilit canyon
what the fuck was she supposed to do??? she singed his arm of all flesh and that didnt stop him
hidden ermine
Its deeply unsatisfying
... that happened after she was already dying
That was her last ditch effort before he tossed her off
twilit canyon
yea exactly so what was she supposed to do with him that close
hidden ermine
Its also incidentally only his hand, and judging by the immediate next scene, his arm was still totally fine
Idk, start with the conflagration?
Jaya is an immensely powerful planeswalker, she could certainly do more before she was hit by an axe and suffered likely extensive bloodloss
twilit canyon
yea his arm was fine bc his phyrexian body beneath was okay
hidden ermine
Besides, thats in-universe, out of universe they placed Jaya in that position to kill her off, to progress Ajanis story
hidden ermine
And my point is that thats no way to treat Jaya
twilit canyon
they planned on her dying this set
literally why not? im not happy with the outcome cus i love jaya but this is a fitting end to most red mages
hidden ermine
Even if you want to kill Jaya off (which I disagree with but I digress), at least let her go out in a final stand of blaze and glory
twilit canyon
gutteral, sudden, violent and fiery
hidden ermine
Not getting axed in the back and tossed off like a bag of trash
twilit canyon
not everyone gets a heroes death in war
hidden ermine
If Jaya dies, she should die by burning out while hitting the Phyrexians where it hurts
And I think Jaya should've gotten a heroes death
twilit canyon
if that was the case u would be complaining her death was too cliche
hidden ermine
Uh, no?
twilit canyon
yea definitely
hidden ermine
I had no complaints about Gideons death
Despite it being very cliche
I dont hate cliches
It has to be satisfying, as long as it is I dont care about how original it is
twilit canyon
gideon's death was very dumb tho
hidden ermine
Dack Faydens death sucked by comparison
twilit canyon
dack's death was dumb too for other reasons
he did nothing the whole story and died for shock
that was truly a shock value deatg
*death
hidden ermine
gideon's death was very dumb tho
Eh, I have no issues with it
twilit canyon
jaya contributed and was a key figure the whole time
hidden ermine
And Id argue Jayas deat is like Dack Faydens death
Plus Dack did do some stuff i nthe story
... Ive been told
glad peak
Jaya should’ve been on crimson vow and had the card burn up the night or whatever it was called and that be her death
twilit canyon
light up the night
glad peak
But yeah I remember people thinking chandra died because of that card
twilit canyon
chandra being on crimson vow was only nice for her bagging adeline
hidden ermine
Like Dack Fayden was one of the walkers that closed Tezzerets portal
Or so Ive been told
No idea, didnt read the book
hidden ermine
True, but that was War of the Sparks card story in general being shite
glad peak
“Some storms never blow over”
Modern Phoenix literally blew over
twilit canyon
unban looting
glad peak
I mean they banned one of the key cards
That’s the point
To make Phoenix blow over
One of my friends said he wants looting unbanned so he can play Mardu pyro
I had to give him the bad news
zinc shard
idk if these got posted yet, they're from the commander decks
lusty trench
that isn't a mana ability
That's not very altar of you ashnod
copper pecan
you can use it with ashnod's coupon to make your opponent get you two drinks
hidden ermine
I love that one of them legit doesnt even have all the text
Oh my god did they make Victory Dragon but you cant surrender
Thats fucking hilarious
Last one is fine, the creator just forgot the casting cost of UB
copper pecan
i love when people make cards that are like "players can't concede"
like what are you gonna do about it, give me a game loss?
trail anvil
I like how the landfall cascade just doesn't function
copper pecan
yeah
you'd think they would check what cascade does before making the card
or would know how ability words work before making custom cards
lusty trench
mana abilities use the stack
The blue player with now hold priority every time you tap a forest
copper pecan
"landfall - cascade" does exactly the same thing as just cascade because landfall isn't rules text
and if it was then the effect wouldn't do anything because cascade only triggers off of casting a spell and lands aren't spells
but even if they were, it still wouldn't do anything because lands are mv 0 and thus can't cascade into anything
also shout out to the card whose text goes over the side of the card and ends in the middle of a sentence
trail anvil
don't forget that it's a planeswalker without any pw templating
trail anvil
???? isn't sheoldred supposed to be banned in this event? wtf
god they fucking revised it lmao why did they take sheoldred off
waxen timber
Standard is so dumb right now. Enjoying it a lot more now that meathook is gone but, feel like even though I want to play mono-green, it would be dumb to play any deck without Sheoldred, Fable
waxen timber
How easy is it to go infinite with lagrella in brawl? A friend of mine who has a Lagrella EDH deck goes infinite by turn 6 pretty consistently with her
trail anvil
in historic brawl imo you need the right cards, but if you get them then hoooo you can do some real fun stuff
it's not really infinite as much as it is like grindy advantage, but stuff like thassa looping can have you going +5 and the opponent -5 per turn at its peak
waxen timber
In brawl, can you go past the minimum deck size to get Yorion?
trail anvil
uh I don't think so but idr for sure
oh yeah also tbh I build lagrella more for midrange power than combo potential, cause in brawl you go 1v1 vs control and other high mana decks enough to the point where you want the counter spells
waxen timber
Sad, just checked in MTGA and historic brawl has a fixed number of cards. No free Yorion : (
zinc shard
No. No I dont think I will
Someone made this, looked at the fact the text box cuts off, and went "yeah, i can post this"
lusty trench
I wonder if they're gonna over compensate for previous artifact sets sins
From mirrodin to kaladesh there's been a lot of issues with artifact focused sets, so I'm concerned the meta will either become focused around brothers war or they'll do nothing impactful in it
sleek ferry
I think
With how on fire they’ve been with the sets lately
That brothers war is more likely to power creep stuff than be tame
Which tbh I don’t mind
I think this standard and the last one felt relatively low power compared to say izzet dragons
lusty trench
I wonder if they'll retcon some of brothers war to shy away from some of the more... Unsavoury aspects
clever sun
Meta is kinda stale atm
This is why you play other formats in the mean time
trail anvil
did anyone post about how obstinate baloth and blast zone are randomly the styles for November ranked season rewards? https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-october-26-2022
idk if they've been announced as reprints in bro before but aren't these usually standard legal cards?
twilit canyon
oh hey what
my suggestion to add additional goodies in mastery bundles was taken from the wotc server
i went on a tirade about 2 months ago or so about how its never worth buying the $49 bundles anymore and sometimes not even the mastery pass unless theres many good caed styles
the addition of 6 gold packs for 6 guaranteed rares/mythics and from the new set is huge actuallu
[[obstinate baloth]]
twilit canyon
baloth isnt even on arena
well now
i think we know a potential brothers war reprint
trail anvil
and blast zone doesn't really make much sense when that was all the way back in WAR
so it'll be cool to see that back in standard
clever sun
Obstinate Baloth
My detested
Fuck Obstinate Baloth all my homies hate Obstinate Baloth
copper pecan
at least black probably won't be the strongest color by far anymore
people are gonna be much more cautious with liliana now
twilit canyon
baloth wont stop lili
not anymore at least
unless u max out on baloth copies and always have one for her +1s
but removal is actually good and efficient now
baloth wont be as impactful vs her as it was 11 years ago when it was printed
glad peak
Baloth has never stopped lili
Totally haven’t made a deck with a bunch of those effects because everyone was on jund for a bit
GW little kid variant
zinc shard
Thoughts?
twilit canyon
Thoughts?
i just commented up above
this was something i had asked wotc for in the official discord a while back
or something like this
its great
makes them actually worth getting
sleek ferry
Guaranteed rares/mythics never hurt nobody
lusty trench
Oh so we're EVA now huh?
hidden ermine
Thats a cool design
lusty trench
Urza having his magical girl transformation
lusty trench
Oh boy get to pick out my free secret lair soon
wide grove
question, does mtg have a mystic mine equivalent
lusty trench
question, does mtg have a mystic mine equivalent
I think this is closest we have?
wide grove
thank you
glad peak
There are things like [[humility]]
lost widgetBOT
glad peak
But things like [[winter orb]] are easier to break parity