Might even be inclined to say that as an overall composite character videl is better
#Fighting Game Chat
worthy crystal
But her level 1 was one of the best supers in the game and now it’s basically not real
wicked quarry
... I really should actually sit down and lab combos
My neutral is better than most of the people I match against but my combos are way worse lmao
wicked quarry
Yeah 2XKO
Ive been playing a bunch of Vi/Yasuo
Picked Vi because I thought "oh shes gonna have easier combos" nope
Electric is a pain
But tbh shes fun
pearl zodiac
@worthy crystal I suck at her but izayoi is so sick
I did not realize she was a Gundam reference
vivid furnace
ok i wasnt expecting magneto's basic combo route to be plink dashes
i thought you could just H then airdash cancel fast enough but no this is actual plinks
like in doom's TAC infinite, the M M dash M M dash
late frost
wicked quarry
Ok yeah Ive decided, I do not like playing against Warwick Illaoi
Not even because its broken or anything, its just kinda frustrating how ignorant the team is
pearl zodiac
I want Justice back so bad
teal pebble
woah there
worthy crystal
steam://joinlobby/586140/109775244417010825/76561199155971047 @pearl zodiac
My fingers are too cold for this character holy
pearl zodiac
worthy crystal
Why doesn’t 5c pickup anymore 
pearl zodiac
bro pulled up with the one character I know nothing about
lategame scrabble type shit
worthy crystal
Nobody knows how tsubaki works its fine
pearl zodiac
is she just mids dispenser the character I notice I didn't have to block high
pearl zodiac
oh
worthy crystal
Sod 2 is ok but just a diff song lol
This character is almost cool why did they have to give him a weird dash
Why was I doing burst safes when u didn’t have burst holy
pearl zodiac
the spoiled milk/spunk color is making this extremely uncomfortable
worthy crystal
It’s Zappa
Holy
Anyways I didn’t have the hands for nu idk why I thought I would for him
Houtenjin should be a reversal again
pearl zodiac
true
worthy crystal
Why do they change all of this characters combos every game
6a will forever be unblockable
pearl zodiac
when I get it on sale probably
worthy crystal
You might not believe me but this character is secretly crazy
If I remember how to play her at least
worthy crystal
steam://joinlobby/586140/109775244417010825/76561199155971047
If I could choose the voice set before playing I’d actually be a plat main
pearl zodiac
can't you?
worthy crystal
No lol
pearl zodiac
oh wait I thought you meant announcer voice
worthy crystal
That’s the wrong link
steam://joinlobby/586140/109775244422236258/76561199155971047
That should work
Does he remember?
I was trying to learn this character before I quit
pearl zodiac
I've been trying to rapid cancel by doing roman cancel input...
pearl zodiac
nah it's fine we can call it here, I need to make sure food doesn't spoil
gg's
the moment I remember a single confirm is the day I become unstoppable
worthy crystal
pearl zodiac
don't judge me kid I have 18 kids to take care of
pearl burrow
Love the Unova rep btw
pearl zodiac
regi you are a real freak for noticing that
thank you though it's a wooden charm I got from my sibling
when I get money (should be soon) I will be purchasing more fighting game-related merchandise for my room
thinking of getting him
he is very tiny and I would put him in my room and hold him
pearl burrow
Peak
pearl zodiac
ngl I wanna play kokonoe but she seems hard
pearl zodiac
sigh rachel is a character I actually wanna play but the wind routes seem so complex
worthy crystal
Hardest character in the game 💔
vivid furnace
so close to just saying fuck it n learning zero im ngl
i cant pick a goddamn point in umvc3 to save my life
zero/dorm/doom's a team, right?
zero missiles jam session is better but. im not learning how to play the fucking ALBATROSS that is dante
vivid furnace
... i wonder if i could do purification instead of dark hole. thats basically just discount jam session. hm.
pearl zodiac
Hardest character in the game 💔
yeah I think I might try to play izanami first
worthy crystal
… 2nd hardest character in the game
pearl zodiac
it's fine I already moved onto izayoi
worthy crystal
@pearl zodiac I think I’m gonna start learning kagura
worthy crystal
Extremely fake charge character but that’s how I like them
Also considering hibiki
pearl zodiac
I'm trying hazama and izayoi but nine looks cool too
worthy crystal
If you like moving don’t play nine
gaunt cloud
If you like moving don’t play nine
Bad frame data or vatista like?
wicked quarry
Also considering hibiki
I can only recommend Hibiki, fun character
pearl zodiac
such a pretty color palette it's insane
pearl zodiac
I hate wallbreak so much
idk what it is about it I just really like the corner and how we designed the genre around it
small furnace
idm wallbreak as a concept but idt it fits guilty gear
gaunt cloud
Its still a bit jarring that wallbreak got added in the sequel to the game that danger time, IKs, YRCs and whatever the fuck elphelt got away with
pearl zodiac
idm wallbreak as a concept but idt it fits guilty gear
I agree but GG and BlazBlue are like the two games least fitting of the concept
like defense is so strong
worthy crystal
I would play makoto but she seems ass
She’s fine
worthy crystal
Bad frame data or vatista like?
She doesn’t run her teleport is weird
Good character but you spend most of the round just walking
pearl zodiac
yeah I decided to go back to lambda
makoto's charge drive is kinda weird to get used to
worthy crystal
idm wallbreak as a concept but idt it fits guilty gear
I think adding wallbreak would’ve been fine if they didn’t also get rid of good knockdowns
Together it just feels like a lot of neutral resets in a game where neutral feels bad
pearl zodiac
I can't do the gravity seed routes yet but I can do like 90% of everything else and she's so fun
it's crazy how I used to be Xrd's biggest defender but I think the only GG I can stomach playing anymore is Holy Order Sol +R
worthy crystal
Xrd was very good but unfortunately the final patch of that game is very not good
Word me @small furnace
If they wound the clock back 1 or 4 or 5 or 8 versions it would’ve been extremely peak
small furnace
yeah end of xrd was kinda dogshit
worthy crystal
There was a version of the game where Johnny and elphelt weren’t just better than everyone else, where bed was playable, where Faust was good but not obscenely broken, where venom couldn’t checkmate you for breathing, and where ino was actually anti airable
The only downside? Chipp
pearl zodiac
johnny and elphelt were my two favorite xrd characters...
worthy crystal
Crazy
I think Johnny is really cool but he was incredibly stupid for most of the game
pearl zodiac
idk johnny was really overtuned but his character concept was really fun and his execution wasn't bad
worthy crystal
There was a version with a bug where mist became permanent if you bursted him
pearl zodiac
replacing the coins with cards kinda took the appeal away for me
worthy crystal
pearl zodiac
There was a version with a bug where mist became permanent if you bursted him
I NEED TO GO BACK
worthy crystal
I think coins are cool but the resource management was so fake
gaunt cloud
I NEED TO GO BACK
worthy crystal
Because of how good treasure hunt was
He sacrificed nothing to get back his resource for free
pearl zodiac
the limited coins are whatever but stacking the coins for level 3 mist finer was so peak
worthy crystal
And if he had a decent to good starter he actually went meter positive for it
So ridiculous
If treasure hunt didn’t give Johnny full extensions after I think he’d be my favorite character in the game
That would be like millia getting to combo into install and gaining back the 50 meter while she’s doing it
faint ice
A resource management top tier that refills their resource for playing the game?
arcsys surely wouldnt make that mistake again
pearl zodiac
I get why they took all this shit away for strive but stuff like bacchus sigh being removed makes me sad
worthy crystal
I guess my issue is very specifically that Johnny at level 0 is far too good for how free his resource management is
pearl zodiac
let's hold hands and play +R Johnny
worthy crystal
Let’s not
worthy crystal
If Johnny had to enkasu in xrd maybe he wouldn’t have been god
gaunt cloud
Strive would be a much better game if i actually knew how to play asuka
pearl zodiac
I'm waiting for 2.0 or whatever the fuck they meant by that
hoping the game becomes more like the past entries but that's like 90% cope
pearl zodiac
hey can't be worse than dbfz
shrewd furnace
strive would be a much better game if it felt as responsive as xrd or +r and had faust return
worthy crystal
Maybe the first part definitely not the second
pearl zodiac
I flip-flopped between liking strive and hating it but I just don't like how they did ky
faint ice
I'm curious as to whether
gaunt cloud
Kinda want to try unika but i would need to buy the pass
faint ice
more chars are gonna get sol style reworks
pearl zodiac
I fucking hope not
gaunt cloud
And idt i even have time to play fgs anymore
faint ice
cuz he does not play like launch at all
pearl zodiac
they reworked sol like 3 times
worthy crystal
more chars are gonna get sol style reworks
Hopefully
shrewd furnace
faust needs to be back
worthy crystal
Sol went from incredibly dry to incredibly cool
pearl zodiac
is it too much to ask for greed sever back
shrewd furnace
sincerely, faust gang
gaunt cloud
Bedman gets his teleport back
worthy crystal
And they made his basically useless moves actually relevant
gaunt cloud
PLEASE
shrewd furnace
gaunt cloud
Who me?
worthy crystal
Yes
shrewd furnace
we need to bring back kum
worthy crystal
True
shrewd furnace
kum's a sick character
pearl zodiac
we need to buff aba
shrewd furnace
aba? i sleep
pearl zodiac
apparently they turned her into a counterpick character
shrewd furnace
zappa tho
pearl zodiac
how is aba sleeper but zappa gets you excited
pearl zodiac
the real hot take
worthy crystal
Zappa could actually be cool in strive
pearl zodiac
we need to bring back half of testament's +r moves
shrewd furnace
found the testament player
worthy crystal
That is much less than half of testaments +r moves
pearl zodiac
warrant too
worthy crystal
It is cumulatively maybe 1.2% of what makes testament good
shrewd furnace
we need to bring back all of faust's item toss items
and not have the risk reward be so skewed against faust
worthy crystal
Ok then can we give millia pin back
shrewd furnace
only if faust gets fdc back
worthy crystal
faint ice
we need to buff aba
god we do not
shrewd furnace
pleasure doing business with you
shrewd furnace
we should give pot air buster back
faint ice
Ok then can we give millia pin back
pearl zodiac
god we do not
to be fair I haven't actually played aba in strive
is she some kinda broken mess or whatever
shrewd furnace
i wouldn't say broken but she sure is a mess
faint ice
she's strong and doesn't like projectile slideshow characters
pearl zodiac
ah
faint ice
if you have to fight her she's a ticking time bomb u make no mistakes into
gaunt cloud
Wouldnt mind more zato buffs
pearl zodiac
actually cake you're the resident millia stan right
faint ice
I personally hate her cuz install turns you into lebron
pearl zodiac
that's valid
worthy crystal
Aba is less of a counterpick character and more of a if you don’t counterpick this character you will lose
Unless you actually know all the specific counterplay
Anyways I’m actually lowkey hype for jam just to see whether they slayer her or not
pearl zodiac
wdym
worthy crystal
Slayer was… mostly unchanged as a character concept
But they gave him gatlings
Which fundamentally made his character design really silly
Jam would be a character who if put into the strive axis would just entirely be really silly
faint ice
Jam beats chaos but ends up being the best character in the game
faint ice
Slayer was… mostly unchanged as a character concept
haha what if we put the high damage guy in the high damage game it would be so funny lma- wtf pilebunker instant wallsplat
I feel like ppl stopped asking for chars after release slayer
pearl zodiac
wait
why did they give slayer gatlings
like 50% of his gimmick was links
TNS on now
this is my first time watching 2XKO footage
what the hell is this shit man
small furnace
like 50% of his gimmick was links
average strive newbie would die if they tried to do slayer's link combos /hj
pearl zodiac
I feel like tag fighters are just Like That
shrewd furnace
very weird choice for riot to go for ngl
pearl zodiac
UI looks like dogass
oh it's BO2
that's why this set feels like it's taken so long
worthy crystal
Do u mean ft2
shrewd furnace
yeah game's taking a long time and i feel like i've seen the same bnbs all game
but that's to be expected
i don't mind bnbs but this aint beginner friendly 
thank you riot
pearl zodiac
I'll need to download the game and play but these combos don't seem very fun
shrewd furnace
to their credit, they didn't make the combo game as hard to do as they could have
it legitimately fun to just mash buttons
vivid furnace
the only character i wanna see back in gg is kliff
with his taunt
idgaf if the motherfuckers dead in canon. make it robo-kliff.
as long as he can call someone an idiot and use a cleaver like five times as large as he is
i am happy
pearl zodiac
grand finals was 40 minutes
maybe I'm dooming or maybe people are trolling but this game doesn't seem viable to run in a schedule with other games
faint ice
maybe I'm dooming or maybe people are trolling but this game doesn't seem viable...
Events have survived marvel and Android 21 dbfz, TOs know the tag game song and dance
wicked quarry
Ay got my first ragequit in 2XKO
pearl zodiac
we really need to go back and archive some of the XBL era of BlazBlue I'm an hour into this rabbit hole and it's kinda crazy
pearl zodiac
going back to P4 for a bit
I just saw some brackets and now I wanna try regular lab
worthy crystal
Idk a lot of the unisys remixes are lot worse in pretty similar ways
Overcomplicating a song that didn’t need any adjustment
small furnace
i stand that guilty gear is better tho ik blazbue has some pure plasma
pearl zodiac
I didn't really notice a difference aside from the mixing but maybe I need to give it another listen
worthy crystal
i stand that guilty gear is better tho ik blazbue has some pure plasma
Which one
Because I could be persuaded to agree that xrd songs>
small furnace
+r
small furnace
x is also really good
worthy crystal
A lot of my favorite songs from xx series were the weird Korean exclusives
small furnace
the korean version of xx's ost were pretty fucking good too
worthy crystal
Black light babe or whatever it’s called
small furnace
i think it was just called that yeah
worthy crystal
Maybe bc it’s the one I played the least but +r soundtrack just doesn’t stick out to me as much
I can’t remember nearly as much of it as xrd/bb
I think genuinely though pre bbcp bb soundtrack had 0 misses
And if u take remix tracks out of the game I think there’s only like 3 bad/mid tracks
pearl zodiac
kinda glad blazblue ended when it did because Strive-fied BB ost would kill me I think
they were kinda already on their way to doing that
worthy crystal
People said this same thing about how bbs soundtrack sounds compared to older fgs
small furnace
Maybe bc it’s the one I played the least but +r soundtrack just doesn’t stick ou...
this is fair. while i did play x as a kid, my more formative fighting game years were def playing +r
worthy crystal
bbcs was my shit as a kid
pearl zodiac
People said this same thing about how bbs soundtrack sounds compared to older fg...
I was talking more about giving everyone a vocal track because I only really like 2 of the ones they added in strive
small furnace
strive vocal tracks are good ur just a hater
granted, idc for a lot of them and certainly think they are worse than the older songs
pearl zodiac
counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTBzmBDSv0
small furnace
but they are for sure good
worthy crystal
I think they’re just different
Shrug
But my point is that people always complain about the soundtrack of games
when bb came out people said the music was way too overbearing/complex/whatever
small furnace
oh yeah lmao
worthy crystal
Basically that it’s hard to listen to while ur trying to lock in
Which is what some people still say about vocal tracks in fgs
small furnace
honestly i quite fuck with calamity trigger's ost
even tho idt bb peaked as a soundtrack there
worthy crystal
I think CT as a single game has like a 9.5/10 ost
pearl zodiac
idgaf about distracting I just think some of that shit is ass
small furnace
the intro to calamity trigger is still one of my fave intro songs for a fighting game
worthy crystal
Plastic night is dogshit fight me
small furnace
tho i do love all the intro songs arcsys puts out
vivid furnace
<@480437470870110209> what fg has a better ost than bb
dbfz is chockfull of bangers
worthy crystal
I think every bb has a good intro song
U know what actually just made me laugh so hard
worthy crystal
vivid furnace
you better be fuckin kiddin
pearl zodiac
worthy crystal
No dbfz ost is lowkey underrated
vivid furnace
small furnace
it is fr
pearl zodiac
why don't they do versus themes anymore
vivid furnace
even hit's goofy ass theme is a banger
worthy crystal
Compare https://spotify.link/qtrrP446WXb to https://spotify.link/FIwjrU56WXb
Ts is criminal
teal pebble
why don't they do versus themes anymore
GG is not the same anymore
worthy crystal
They took the song literally called oriental flower and went
teal pebble
I stand by x/xx soundtrack being the best in GG
pearl zodiac
I like the piano intro but the rest doesn't hit as hard for me
small furnace
this intro + the original song = peak tho
worthy crystal
Like I won’t deny that the beat is lit and the riff is insane but why is this the song
teal pebble
Meet again is my top fav in the series
worthy crystal
That we’re sticking it in
The songs are meant at least a little bit to reflect the characters
Asian lady who’s entire design is that she’s Asian randomly gets drum solo
????
If they put that in like motor head or something it would’ve been gas
gaunt cloud
i could swear i liked some of these better
worthy crystal
Jacko theme is so overhated
gaunt cloud
oh i see the issue
gaunt cloud
done
pearl zodiac
hold on lemme see if I can find the tier list I made
worthy crystal
Discrepancy is good ur just a hater
gaunt cloud
discrepancy going up a tier was litererally the only change i made 
pearl zodiac
<@480437470870110209> what fg has a better ost than bb
what do we think of P4A's OST
gaunt cloud
fwiw, B tier is "i like these but i think there's better"
pearl zodiac
a bit unfair since half the selectable OST is from the mainline games but I fuck with the original tracks a lot
gaunt cloud
Love the subhuman self in C
song's mid outside the chorus, idk what to say
worthy crystal
what do we think of P4A's OST
This sure is persona music
pearl zodiac
it's specifically P4's style which I think is the best of the franchise fwiw
pearl zodiac
I like P3 because of Aigis, Makoto, and the ending the rest is really up in the air
gaunt cloud
i see
interesting
ok ordered the tiers, final version 
dont ask how the kiss of death went from d to a i kinda just mixed up with a completely different track
faint ice
<@480437470870110209> what fg has a better ost than bb
idk anything about uni but the ost kinda superb
faint ice
ok ordered the tiers, final version <:PoyoyoThumbsUp:902236831398125578>
some of this is big brain, a few misses but I approve
mellow palm
Plastic night is dogshit fight me
1 or 2
Because 1 is peak and the first 30 seconds of 2 are also peak
But yeah bb might have the best ost besides like
Marvel vs capcom 1
mellow palm
ok ordered the tiers, final version <:PoyoyoThumbsUp:902236831398125578>
I will not tolerate trigger slander
gaunt cloud
I will not tolerate trigger slander
Song's probably good i just didnt vibe with it
gaunt cloud
ok ordered the tiers, final version <:PoyoyoThumbsUp:902236831398125578>
The fact no one commented on carpe diem being top 2 makes me unsure if everyone agrees its good or that the whole list is so wrong that it didnt stood out
pearl zodiac
<@480437470870110209> what fg has a better ost than bb
I feel like an idiot for not mentioning melty blood
worn rivet
ok ordered the tiers, final version <:PoyoyoThumbsUp:902236831398125578>
wow a tenth of myself and the gravity are dangerously low
i do recognize the greatness of top 1 the circle tho
mellow palm
ok ordered the tiers, final version <:PoyoyoThumbsUp:902236831398125578>
Also late af but extras is top 5 imo
worthy crystal
@pearl zodiac bbcf?
pearl zodiac
I was shleeping but I can play in 30
worthy crystal
Ping when available
pearl zodiac
Ping when available
let's roll
pearl zodiac
sec chores
worthy crystal
https://spotify.link/0yTymPOtYXb @small furnace @mellow palm @gaunt cloud behold peak
You youngsters wouldn’t understand
small furnace
queen of rose is so good
small furnace
white requiem is probably my favorite vs theme in bb
worthy crystal
Roast abandoned me… 
Weak executioner is mine
Actually lowkey every ct vs theme is godlike
I think it’s kinda weird they never made vs themes for nu/ragna or nu/noel
worthy crystal
That’s been a thing since CT
I guess because she got written out of CS it makes sense for it to not have been there
@pearl zodiac come backge…
worthy crystal
Not again
pearl zodiac
sorry I've been taking care of my slowly ailing dog and I need to attend to some emergencies every once in a while
worthy crystal
This character is so cool man
pearl zodiac
I need to lock in with my defense
worthy crystal
You shouldn’t be throwing around such big moves in neutral so often
Especially against a character who can blow you up off anything
pearl zodiac
#BigDickProblems
worthy crystal
Proving my point
When u do 214d on every wake up it’s very easy to delay tech and just aa
When u do 214a in neutral so often it’s really easy to bait and kill
faint ice
Went 1-2 today 
pearl zodiac
what'd you play
worthy crystal
Wait I actually don’t like this song
faint ice
what'd you play
Strive Johnny
pearl zodiac
Strive Johnny
at least you went
pearl zodiac
I remember reading that this game had block carryover but I could never DP safely
pearl zodiac
I'm gonna try playing Chie
late frost
vivid furnace
i think zero/dorm/doom can set up post-stalking flare extensions with rekkoha this team's kinda gas
trying to do as few lightning loops bc i dont wanna piss off my friends that much
vivid furnace
right now its a 1 in 3 chance this video doesnt work on here and its just 0:00/0:00 on a still-frame of two zeroes making heavy eye contact
nvm it just takes ages to load i guess
it was the only way to get this to not be horrendously choppy and low quality
round creek
Lmao
worthy crystal
@pearl zodiac game?
pearl zodiac
probably not, it's a bit late and I need to do housework for the next hour or two
paper notch
X
vivid furnace
dormammu when
vapid lake
https://x.com/UltimaShadowX/status/1988323022479257771?s=20
DON'T MANIFEST THAT DEVIL
wicked quarry
Industry Plant Devil 🤔
vapid lake
Industry Plant Devil 🤔
rip to the one dazzler fan (Liza)
worthy crystal
Healing has never been polarizing in fighting games!
No character with a healing super has ever been good in a marvel game either 
pearl zodiac
that doesn't count
shrewd furnace
vivid furnace
that doesn't count
mf how
she has a healing super
she is in a marvel (vs capcom) game
and she is undeniably top tier
vivid furnace
yeee
you just never see it cos like
lets be real dark phoenix matches never last long enough for xf3 to expire
worthy crystal
that doesn't count
This is literally the character I was referencing
Is there some other healing super in mvc
vivid furnace
honestly probably in mvc2
but it's like a glitch
it wouldn't surprise me anyways
worthy crystal
Oh actually doesn’t rogue have one
pearl zodiac
idts
vivid furnace
her command grab gives heals on certain characters
on anakaris, bb hood, dan, dhalsim, jill, servbot, shuma, and spiral in a certain stance (?)
shrewd furnace
Amingo has a heal assist which was… there
pearl zodiac
@worthy crystal how the actual fuck does anyone play shabrys this shit is impossible
but it's so cool
worthy crystal
<@364939622343507988> how the actual fuck does anyone play shabrys this shit is ...
It’s not that bad
U just have to hold D a lot more than u realize
Infinitely easier on any non pad setup
pearl zodiac
sigh
worthy crystal
Aside from that she’s honestly maybe easier than Ken idk
Her combos are largely very stable and most of her difficulty in neutral/especially on oki comes from being spoiled for choice
Picking between 3 very good anti airs picking between 20 hellish oki setups
Choosing between your unblockable setup combo ender or your fullscreen corner carry + pillar oki combo ender
pearl zodiac
I've been interested in regular lab but shabrys has a lot of swag and it's tempting
worthy crystal
Both are hated
Shab works less to win more though
Lab is a character for combo fiends and masochists
north latch
Alright, today I will start my rebuilding of a Mugen roster from scratch, for the first time since my teens
worthy crystal
north latch
<:vro:1215095983617220629>
I let my haters be my motivators
worthy crystal
You should let your haters be your waiters
north latch
You should let your haters be your waiters
You are my waiter, bartender I’ll take 3 double cheeseburgers
worthy crystal
vapid lake
https://fixvx.com/garougyaru/status/1788754842086944960 @wicked quarry @round creek
round creek
It’s so funny
wicked quarry
Kamen Rider W would be so much shorter if they just started with this form every time
wicked quarry
Completely missed these coming out yesterday
Seems like a solid patch overall
Only thing that affects me is Yasuos super assist (After he gets KOd) being nerfed and like
... yeah that shit was cheap af lmao
I guess the other Yasuo stuff are also nerfs but half of it barely matters to me because I dont know how to combo with him
wicked quarry
Also apparently theyre using winrate for balance which is
... yeesh
I hope that its minimally considered because that at best suggests they dont want to have truly complex characters
Imagine buffing Carl Clover in every BB game because his winrate is terrible
worthy crystal
Updog got patched out
worthy crystal
~~Imagine buffing Carl Clover in every BB game because his winrate is terrible~~
I hate to tell you but they did in fact do that
They nerfed two entire things about him from CT and then between then and CF he pretty much only got buffs every version
Also from what they said it also sounds like they’re mostly analyzing data in high level gameplay which… is what most games do anyways and is usually the best indicator of general balance
Like are they supposed to just go off vibes and twitter discourse?
shrewd furnace
Nah they should do it purely on fan thoughts
pearl zodiac
Also from what they said it also sounds like they’re mostly analyzing data in hi...
it's probably a lot more reliable for a fighting game but a big issue with League is how obsessed Riot is with numbers and data and hyperfocuses on niche changes that change numbers but don't change feel
wicked quarry
Also from what they said it also sounds like they’re mostly analyzing data in hi...
Depends on what the data is, if its winrate, very few games do it, and the games that do usually have worse balance
When Riot was still going purely by winrate in league is when leagues balance was at its worst (they have since stopped doing so thankfully)
I was hoping they'd look primarily at tournament and high level presence, I.e. who are people at the top level playing the most
wicked quarry
God Illaoi is annoying
I hate how little effort she needs for crazy damage
I can respect the top tiers because at least you need good execution on them, but Illaoi is just so cheap
worthy crystal
Depends on what the data is, if its winrate, very few games do it, and the games...
This is how many fighting games have historically looked at what characters to tune
Especially western devs ie nrs
And again, what else are they supposed to be looking at?
gaunt cloud
Leffen's twitter 
wicked quarry
This is how many fighting games have historically looked at what characters to t...
That would be news to me. Usually it was presence, especially in tournaments, that was used
Certainly not what ArcSys used for strive, given who got buffs and nerfs
worthy crystal
That would be news to me. Usually it was presence, especially in tournaments, th...
Representation in the upper levels of tournaments is also an indicator of win rate at the top levels of gameplay
lol
wicked quarry
I did say presence in general, and not really because at the top levels individual player skill just matters more on average
Like Strive had publically available winrates
They did not correspond with tournament presence in the slightest
worthy crystal
Presence overall in tournaments is a terrible indicator of character strength
Using bb as an example once again terumi and ragna are two of the most popular characters in the game
wicked quarry
(For instance Axl was almost always top 3 winrate and yet barely ever got a top cut)
worthy crystal
Popular characters are not always and often are not the strongest in the game
wicked quarry
That is also true
worthy crystal
It’s almost like you need to evaluate multiple statistics, which will inevitably include how often characters win matches
wicked quarry
But high winrate characters being the strongest characters in the game is exceptionally rare
I wanna say in Strive there were exactly 2 patches where that actually lined up
Well 2 that we know of
Could be that launch Sol also wouldve lined up
worthy crystal
It also matters what level of gameplay you’re looking at for the wr
wicked quarry
Well if you want any sample size that is even reasonably accurate it cant be too narrow, I believe in Strive it was usually top 0.5% of players that were looked at
Good example is Happy Chaos. Often top 1, pretty much always at least top 5, yet by winrate he was always bottom 10 at best and often bottom 5
worthy crystal
genuinely in the least disrespectful way possible I have literally no input on strive because that game has been a flaming mess and I have consistently had nothing but contempt for the majority of opinions held by the community
But for other fgs
wicked quarry
I mean for other fgs its harder to make precise claims because I dont believe we have winrate for most of them
worthy crystal
There is often still a huge divide in data between the top levels of ranked and even the lowest levels of tournament play
But it’s important to use both for balance
Fgs are not meant to be balanced around the absolute highest level of gameplay because very few people are the absolute highest level of gameplay
wicked quarry
Well yeah
The problem you run into with winrate however, inevitably
Is that its more representative of how difficult a character is than how good a character is
worthy crystal
They buffed Carl every game in bb even though he was competitively the 2nd most hated character in the game because they wanted worse players to feel better with him
worthy crystal
Is that its more representative of how difficult a character is than how good a ...
True in some cases and not others 
And there is also variables in this data which explains this discrepancy
wicked quarry
Are there? Im not sure how you want to adjust winrate based on difficulty without knowing how much the difficulty affects it, which good luck with that
worthy crystal
Personally I would not assume riot is an entirely incompetent entity and understands what info means when ahri and Ekko do bad in low ranks and do very good in high ranks
Especially when they very specifically explain the process of how they use that info
wicked quarry
Depends
Again I dont know how they use it precisely
But I know how Leagues balance was when they looked almost entirely at winrate, or at best winrate with pick rate
(Atrocious, worst its ever been)
(They then stopped doing that and balance got dramatically better)
worthy crystal
Well let’s actually let the patch live for more than 24 hours before we start dooming about how terrible the balance is
wicked quarry
Oh no I think this patch is good, Im moreso worried about their methods
worthy crystal
Personally I have faith that generational fighting game all stars know how to analyze data
wicked quarry
Because its one thing when the roster is this small
Its another when youve got 20-30 characters
worthy crystal
Ok well let’s let it become a problem when it becomes a problem
wicked quarry
Sure
Also really funny that it turns out Sajam was right about Blitzcrank
But no one knew because Blitz had a beneficial bug
worthy crystal
Yohozie ptf marlinpie etc is certainly a lineup of people I trust to understand data analysis and how to apply it to balance
wicked quarry
(The speedboost he gets from steam carries over if you die with full steam)
worthy crystal
Sajam turns out to be right about most things when it comes to fgs he’s a pretty smart guy
wicked quarry
I mean yeah but it genuinely seemed like he was wrong
But only because Blitzcrank keeps the speedboost from steam after dying even if he doesnt have steam
Also hilarious that he has a bug that makes him better and he still sucks
worthy crystal
Slow grappler when the best characters in the game are speed demons and zoners
Zangief moment tager moment Potemkin moment
Generational grappler trauma
faint ice
someone tell arcsys
gaunt cloud
Was gonna say
shrewd furnace
Shivers in potemkin infinite vs brisket
paper notch
moko is right, clearly potemkin wasnt a good character at any point
just everyone who lost to him was bad at the game
small furnace
true
worthy crystal
grapplers can never be good im sorry
He doesn’t know
About pot or tager or sol badguy
Or about sf4 gief
Or sf5 Mika or sf6 gief
worthy crystal
That game had 2 diff top tier grapplers
And like 10 other ones who all had command grabs
worthy crystal
In xrd ky had 50/50 oki and sol had to do strike throw 
How the times changed
Did Ky get a new move yet
gaunt cloud
Ofc baiken isnt a grapper, you're thinking of gio
worthy crystal
It’s not too late to give him grinders
wicked quarry
Ky did not get one no
vivid furnace
just everyone who lost to him was bad at the game
this is real if you lose to a grappler its your fault
also i question calling sol "no guys im definitely not a shoto i swear" badguy a grappler
but idk i dont play gg enough to know
i also dont know about calling sf6 zangief "good" i think its more the players that are good idk
worthy crystal
also i question calling sol "no guys im definitely not a shoto i swear" badguy a...
In xrd he was def a grappler
lol
shrewd furnace
yeah his entire gameplan in xrd is to set up for wild throw into his most damaging combo + oki to set up for wild throw
shrewd furnace
he also has a full screen ground slam which is really cool
oh he does more damage now lol
you almost never do his command grab
worthy crystal
teal pebble
He got off screened
worthy crystal
@faint ice darius ww is kinda heat
faint ice
<@199566048750469120> darius ww is kinda heat
I heard install is awkward to actually get in games
vivid furnace
yo apparently marlinpie helped design yasuo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9udSffAzkHw i dont know how true it is but
thats wild if true
explains why yasuo has rapid slash n judgment cut wish he had the gucci belt too
late frost
can he do square fly loops
wicked quarry
We know Marlinpie worked on Teemo, Idk on Yasuo though
vivid furnace
Instagram
he definitely did yasuo holy shit
this is the first piece of news that has made me wanna touch 2xko
well, not news, but. yknow what i mean
shrewd furnace
teemo has tele
faint ice
X
Most insane mortal kombat sale ever
If anyone is interested in MK buy this
Not me though 💔
worthy crystal
If only 11 was a good game
late frost
damn I'm kinda tempted for $13
but not enough to try to snag the deal before they fix the price error
vivid furnace
eh...
its a fantastic deal but I've no interest in NRS games
outside of sajam uploading another video about how fuck busted injustice 1 was
round creek
@wicked quarry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12O3TjaNv_0
worthy crystal
Holy shit this game looks cool
I’m hoping that aside from the parry function the rest of the mechanics associated with flow are character unique
vivid furnace
https://vxtwitter.com/avatar_fighters/status/1993409408446185878
very interested in this one
motion inputs + roll back + good art style + media im personally interested in? good shit
although i still need to actually watch ATLA, it really is just that first season that reeks of mid 2000s cartoon energy that i cant stand nowadays
vivid furnace
im fine with villain of the week its more just
idk how to describe it but early ATLA gives me the same vibe as vol 1 of rwby
and i dont particularly like vol 1 of rwby
(rest of the show, save vol 5, is great though genuinely)
worthy crystal
@small furnace I forgot about the stereotype about anime fgc commentary
I was rewatching legacy footage of bbcp and
Actually I’ll just link it to let u see for urself how horrible it is
The 2 classic memes are incomprehensible little voices in the back of your ear and unbelievably disrespectful commentators who have no credentials to back it up and this is both
worthy crystal
Also checks the fake 360p box
This shit is 144 in a trench coat these tricks don’t work on me
worthy crystal
I've discovered F-Mech and H-Satsuki
If u want unhinged belligerent grapplers consider kouma
pearl zodiac
Or war crime Michael Jackson
C-Roa?
I just wanna get my feet wet before trying the top-tiers
worthy crystal
I do not like grapplers™
But you’re playing satsuki 
pearl zodiac
satsuki's not a grappler
worthy crystal
She’s the closest u get to grapplers in this game
Strike throw with a command grab
Kouma is less of one than her
Both her and kouma are just belligerent assholes who swing around big hitboxes
shrewd furnace
My favorite grappler is c kohaku
pearl zodiac
Kouma is less of one than her <:icant:1310294700384714813>
maybe C-Satsuki but H-Satsuki is pretty gorilla rushdown
I'm rotating between her, F-Nanaya, and like F-Mech probably
huge disparity there I know
worthy crystal
maybe C-Satsuki but H-Satsuki is pretty gorilla rushdown
Grapplers in fpan are not like grapplers in other games
Satsuki is a character who mixes you up pre knockdown with strike throw
Ergo grappler
pearl zodiac
got everything set up
using CCCaster is crazy it's like I'm playing Rogue
inputs seem pretty lax like your typical anime fighter, I like it
pearl zodiac
@worthy crystal @shrewd furnace if you guys play Community Edition we should run it sometime
worthy crystal
Community edition doesn’t play nice with my controller
pearl zodiac
sighge
meeting new people is always a hassle but I guess it's better to do it sooner rather than never
vivid furnace
thoughts?
from someone in the dbfz server
idk if its just the inherent umvc3 player in me but i dont fw point/pivot/support
like dbfz i kinda get it cos you tend to blow sparking way earlier in matches so an "anchor" is just someone with self-sufficient neutral who likes meter and doesnt mind being solo
shrewd furnace
Yeah I just go through the old kof system
Battery (main job is to gain tons of meter), meter burner (only job is to use meter to kill asap), anchor (can kill without meter and must play with little but if you have it then it’s nice)
pearl burrow
I think I’m gonna be using point and anchor for a few more years, yeah
Mid being swapped for Pivot is reasonable enough though, especially for DBFZ
vivid furnace
yea for dbfz it can fit but not for every tag fighter
carmine dove
Eldlich is a Grappler/Zoner hybrid with small and slow normals, but has huge ass damage and can summon Conquistadors like Faust's mini-Faust stampede, summon Huaqeros like Kuon's swords in UNI2, and Hounds like Izumi's fish in UNI2, and on a hard KD he could try and mix with his command grab and Huaqeros, hear me out it'd be funny
pearl zodiac
the more I play MBAACC the sadder I get over Type Lumina
vivid furnace
X
vivid furnace
im considering it
gaunt cloud
https://x.com/gbvs_official/status/1995812906756362363?s=20
Is that shanks
paper notch
-lawyer after a hard case
pearl zodiac
+50000000000000000000000
pearl zodiac
people are saying this looks like ass but I don't see it
am I missing something?
some of the UI decisions are just ugly as fuck though
gaunt cloud
am I missing something?
Since no training mode yet people are struggling to lab stuff out
So all clips you end up seeing is just LMH assist into LMH assist into ....
pearl zodiac
no training mode for a beta is kinda weird
I liked some of what I saw for Ghost Rider though
faint ice
https://fixupx.com/TokonFighters/status/1996959121216528572
this is some of the better examples done by cloud & I think fenrich was doing stuff with spidey
the biggest offender is the assists*
when somone's in blockstun ppl don't have their personal assists
everyone's assist is just a generic lariat
which ends up being as choccy described
gaunt cloud
Someone figured out how to bypass that but seems to be pretty niche so far
pearl zodiac
they should probably fix that
most of what I've seen from this game is pretty sick, I get why they don't wanna go full mahvel with insane assists but I feel like it's okay
faint ice
Someone figured out how to bypass that but seems to be pretty niche so far
Yeah I've seen some routes where ur character resets to "neutral" so u can do proper assists but I hope that's not the lifestyle of the game
as someone who hasn't played it: beautiful game, I know I will be obssessed month 1, but ppl are being smart in that people wanna be engaged for year 1etc
teal pebble
vxTwitter / fixvx
faint ice
Can't believe it's not Harada at the helm of Tekken anymore
You'd almost expect him to do it forever
shrewd furnace
I’m gonna miss Mr. Don’t-ask-me-for-shit
worthy crystal
Watching nen impact made me nostalgic let’s boot up battle for the grid @faint ice
That game is peak unironically
faint ice
Watching nen impact made me nostalgic let’s boot up battle for the grid <@199566...
I feel like I'm being offered drugs
worthy crystal
Sometimes drugs are good
pearl zodiac
it's so gigafucked that Power Rangers came out with two really fun FG's for the property while Super Sentai's been sticking to gacha games and shit
worthy crystal
Sentai has a few old 3d fighters
Also what other fg are you talking about besides bftg
Surely not the nes one
worthy crystal
Have you even played it
pearl zodiac
yes
I had a group of friends that would spam it because we were all autistic super sentai fans
worthy crystal
Personally I think that game is deplorable
And I would definitely say the sentai 3d fighter is both better made and much more enjoyable
I think most of the archaic kusoge fighters like that are pretty miserable in general
vivid furnace
https://vxtwitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/1997952347709034747
so is tekken cooked
or too soon to tell
cos ik tekken 8's been kinda shaky lately
late frost
it'll be under a new manager
maybe they'll go a new direction
maybe people will like it
or maybe nothing changes
late frost
vivid furnace
huh
pearl zodiac
@worthy crystal https://x.com/Evo/status/1998568857963831447
X
VAMPIRE SAVIOR CENTRAL FICTION MAIN STAGE
late frost
Now that's a dangerous pick
faint ice
Very sick rivals is getting a spotlight too
velvet wren
faint ice
Evo has been Chipotle time for like 2 years now
north latch
@worthy crystal the avatar FG is looking sick
worthy crystal
Extremely
late frost
pearl zodiac
gonna try and play Jin for real this time
no fucking around with other characters just gonna go for it
faint ice
assuming this is jin bb not jin tekken
faint ice
jin is pretty cool "shoto-like" char
def seems to let someone use their own style of jin
shrewd furnace
like a jin and tonic?
late frost
||Caitlyn|| revealed at TGA for 2XKO
pearl burrow
pearl zodiac
@worthy crystal isn't that your girl
pearl burrow
I swear Caitlyn has the least merch out of all the Arcane headliners
Or honestly just content/representation in general
And I get why, but dang
late frost
Street Fighter movie trailer at TGA
worthy crystal
<@364939622343507988> isn't that your girl
What da helly that’s slander
worthy crystal
||Caitlyn|| revealed at TGA for 2XKO
Good design or bad design
pearl zodiac
you had a caitlyn pfp before...
worthy crystal
Because the lor art was pretty
late frost
also they just got the whole cast out here
worthy crystal
I also would rather have like 37195728100000 diff league characters before her
late frost
Good design or bad design
I already forgor lamo
but I think it's her post-redesign game design
worthy crystal
Does she have a top hat
late frost
ye
worthy crystal
Crying
late frost
dang okay taking shots at MK
shrewd furnace
Yeah meta knight’s lame
north latch
though I do play him in tekken
Jin in Tekken is like the safest character you can main
Real ones play Raven like me
shrewd furnace
Raven in Tekken is like the safest character you can main
Real ones play Fei Long like me
||yes I know he’s a street fighter character||
vivid furnace
woah... like jiren...
soft vapor
https://www.reddit.com/r/2XKO/comments/1pkn9ey/her_calf_is_suspiciously_big_and_...
Imagine
2 legs and her gun
vivid furnace
somehow the prize pool for tns tonight is almost at 1.2k
just. a random umvc3 ratio tourney in the middle of december. walk away with damn near $500 if you win
correction its already at 1.3k
and already at 1.5k
shrewd furnace
Win it
vivid furnace
dawg it is already at grand finals its a lil late for that
$2K HOLY SHIT
final prize pool was 2,367.67 
vivid furnace
https://www.streetfighter.com/6/buckler/en/battle_change changes focusing on mai, elena, and sagat? praying they broke mai's fucking kneecaps
worthy crystal
(They didn’t)
worthy crystal
https://youtu.be/Xuicadu8xZw?si=ycCN3BYRV8ffKlh4 wow he’s spitting
Why is vsav a main stage game
And hnk lol
vivid furnace
brought my laptop with me to play mahvel n games with friends, completely forgot to bring the charger
its charging on the switch dc adapter at least so thats something
sucks i cant just use my hitbox on the ps5 BEEECAUSE I DONT HAVE A FUCKING CONVERTER
i hate sony sm
faint ice
Yeah it's why all the native boxes are hella $$$
vivid furnace
this shit sucks
faint ice
Why is vsav a main stage game <:icant:1310294700384714813>
every single throwback game since they've added the genre has been capcom
late frost
tbh Capcom has the most games to throw it back that don't have modern titles
worthy crystal
every single throwback game since they've added the genre has been capcom <:ican...
And half of them have been games that people don’t actually play
faint ice
cf and rivals this year is super cool at least
evo japan pre-reg btw
X
This is insane
vivid furnace
ok ive played ssbu now this shit is a great party game but i would never play it competitively
worthy crystal
Bait used to be believable
vivid furnace
melee being respectable is low quality bait fs
vivid furnace
ok am i missing something why can I not change my controls
i have a control scheme set up with my username on it
but it defaults to the, well, default one
if i go into controls n try to select it it just opens it up to edit
this is ssbu btw
i just wanna have attack n special on the right two triggers
never mind figured it out
cosmic forge
I got SF6 now
It was on giga sale
@vivid furnace hmu if you wanna play ult
I recognise it would be the laggiest dogshit ever but I'm happy to explain the fun of it as comp
late frost
Did you get any of the DLC?
vivid furnace
<@125804341670969344> hmu if you wanna play ult
owo
also you dont need to explain the fun of sf6 its one of my main games
but yea that netcode is gonna suck ass, even if im on wired gigabit
cosmic forge
Did you get any of the DLC?
Came with Y1+2
cosmic forge
also you dont need to explain the fun of sf6 its one of my main games
No uh explain why Ult is fun
late frost
Do you have an idea who you want to play in SF6
vivid furnace
No uh explain why Ult is fun
but anyways regarding this i do think smash ult is fun
i just dont have any respect for it's competitive scene
and it is at it's peak as a party game w/ final smash ball n fake final smash ball active
cosmic forge
i just dont have any respect for it's competitive scene
shrewd furnace
It’s peak with comp legal stages, poke balls, assist trophies, smash balls, and fake smash balls at med
vivid furnace
poke balls i'm 50/50 on
when they're good they're good
but then it spawns a palkia
i like the gamble of the smash balls though
shrewd furnace
You can curate what Pokémon come out
soft vapor
but then it spawns a palkia
I love palkia
Does it still flip the stage
Fake smash balls I'm eh on
I'd rather just have real ones
gaunt cloud
Does it still flip the stage
Yes
soft vapor
I'd have to go look back at the item list but I like the utility the boxes and capsules that gave items had tbh
vivid furnace
Fake smash balls I'm eh on
i like the gambling
its no fun if it's a guaranteed super
is it a real super? are you gonna be greedy? what if you get hit by the sephiroth under you spamming up smash?