Tan-2's Checklist for Character Priority Part 2: Character Investment & who's Best to Alright

[warm nest]

1. Jolder - All you need is T1...that's it. With her T1 you will use Indomitable to gain max Retribution stacks which decay at a very slow rate (30 seconds) and you will have unlimited ammo during the entire duration. Each Retribution stack also grants 9% more void damage. Run this with Huckleberry when u get it to just shred through everything with ease...or Riskrunner to nuke the entire map.

2. Tan-2 - Tan-2 at T3 becomes more flexible...but T5 a MONSTER, and honestly makes him one of the strongest Singularity: Chaos characters in the entire game due to him being a sniper character. Get yourself Borealis to have all 3 elements on a single gun, and you can solo every Chaos floor with him. T3 makes Duststar & Dawnstar recharge 50% faster whilst in either mode, so constantly switching back and forth from the 2 is the play for quicker dps and surviveability. But T5...well, Twilight shift gets a 1 second cooldown, and your uptime on both grenades skyrockets.

3. Gwynn - *Yes, she is a strong character, specially for dps. Do I agree that it's worth Investing into her... No. Main reason being that unless you can either get her to T2 for unlimited Soul Assault's since the charge goes to 2, or T6 for absolute mayhem, it's just not worth the time and money. I'd wait for the next banner, as Estela is more worth it imo. BUT, if you enjoy Goth Mom, they go for it, she's all yours.

4. Ning Fei - Unironically, this character is EXTREMELY good Ability wise. Every tier just makes him more and more op, and tbh at T6 might be the highest DPS Ability unit in the entire game. You can have unlimited abilities, super, make clones, invisibility, and on top of it all, move EXTREMELY fast as well. IF you can get him to T1 and invest into him, I'd say in the endgame he will 100% push further than anyone else as a pure Glass Cannon. He is VERY squishy though, so you definitely want to build his Artifacts into defense.

Tan-2's Checklist for Character Priority Part 2: Character Investment & who's Best to Alright

[hidden robin]

First: Thanks for the infos ❤️

You got any testing insight on Gwynn Weapons? Or is it just ignore pistols mostly and do the shotty spam (I got really lucky and have her on T2, but no tan or jolder)

[warm nest]

Her pistols are really strong. If you wish to get them from purchasing the bundles since you have her T2 already, then it's worth going for if you can push her to T3. Also with each catalyst the dmg buff from the pistols transfer to the shotgun, providing even more damage.

[cyan wasp]

i actually have both jolder t1 and ning t2 but completely unbuilt. ill keep this in mind

[hidden robin]

thanks mate, there goes my money then I guess 😄 . the extra rolls from the bundles should get me to T3 ❤️

[blissful leaf]

even on T1,ning fie is crazy strong

his clones can allow you to soak up tons of ad dmg

not to mention chaining his weapon mastery and passive to rack up aoe dmg

t2 onwards he just gets even nuttier

his base feels a little weak cus you dont get that 2nd clone charge which is super good

[warm nest]

Yes, this I agree with. Ning Fei is extremely strong “ability” wise and with riskrunner. He is just extremely squishy even with artifact mods on him

[blissful leaf]

The clones alleviate that alot

With t1 you can have very high clone uptime

[rare spade]

I have a few pulls saved up for the standard banner, should I just send it and pull?

[barren patio]

Anyone have artifact recommendations for tan-2? Is it best to use one of the 3 suggested sets or has someone found a setup that works better?

[brittle ermine]

@warm nest do you suggest I main Jolder as I have her t1 with huckle and keep upgrading her tiers or focus the pulls into tan 2 to up his tier. I wanna be top dps every raid

[haughty raven]

until your last sentence the answer was pick who you prefer.

however with the last sentence, you need to go Tan-2 with Izanagi’s.

Estela may out-dps him with her summons and Gallows, so you may want to consider holding for her banner.

[brittle ermine]

Legend Thankyou king 👑

[compact lily]

You should update it with Estela

[warm nest]

There’s an Estela thread I made already

[compact lily]

I meant as checklist, like how many Talent tree is required to be good

[warm nest]

Sure, I can add it once I return home from the office

[compact lily]

So?

[warm nest]

will be added eventually, I'm just trying to manage a lot of things irl atm

[woven roost]

How come you think Estela is more worth it when you were talking about Gwynn? Just curious

[compact lily]

One is better, the other is worse?

[warm nest]

As I stated above, I don't believe investment into her is worth it. At the same time, Estela's kit is more viable for raw damage output at long range than Gwynn at close range. Estela doesn't need to worry about ammo economy as much as Gwynn does either with her shotgun, and her kit is also more enjoyable than Gwynn. It's all personal preference, but for burst damage + overall damage vs DPS estela clears easily

Everything in terms of estela is in my #1415786892347179079

So you can read about her there if you please

I will be updating this tier list later next week

[woven roost]

Love to here it and thank you! 🙏🏼

[haughty raven]

you’re 100% right, Gwynn absolutely rules in solo content or on add clear, but she just can’t handle damage like Tan or Estela. Gwynn fans hate hearing it, tho.

[fiery cargo]

And this I agree as someone who Invested into Gwyn. She is very easy to play and was a very well rounded kit where you can easily (almost brain dead drool on Keyboard before they disabled Ring of conversion) solo everything in the game

If you want just straight damage the. tan2 and Estella do beat Gwyn for sure, it just seperate uses cases.

Gwyn has movement + piss easy sustain you don’t need to think about and can face tank anything. Estelle and Tan2 require you to rub some braincells and not just rush the boss

[haughty raven]

i appreciate that gacha economies mean people will glaze “Their Character” but it is legal to have multiple characters. If I had a choice I’d be Gwynn on encounter 1 and 2 of the raid, and Tan/Estela on encounter 3 every time

[fiery cargo]

That’s what Im saying, the game gives you enough resources to build like 2 characters, maybe 3 if you really min max. Its not like you only pick one 💀 I personally invested into Gywn to push solo content and I have Estella right behind you just raw dump damage

[haughty raven]

I made the choice to invest in Jolder rather than Gwynn, but that’s because I didn’t pick for raw numbers and hard optimisation but i like bubble titan bubble titan go brrrr shield throw go ding dong ding ding dong

it’s legal to irrationally like a character too! I irrationally like Jolder.

What I don’t do is go around pretending that Jolder is incredible at everything and get mad when people point out that my boss damage isn’t competitive with Tan and Estela 🤭

[compact lily]

Tbh, I am building 5 with no problem lol

[fiery cargo]

When I say build, I mean getting Gold Medal

Not leaving them at 56K ish power range

I’m talking 64K+

[wary jungle]

Am i the only one that thinks gwynn is the best boss damage?

[distant jungle]

Hi, I already pulled Estela. Today I acquired Concerto, do you think it’s better to get Gwynn even without dupes (T0), or should I skip her completely and only pull for more copies of Estela? (I’m F2P)

[woeful harness]

General gacha rule of thumb, you should save, don’t feel the need to get Gwynn cuz you have her exotic, others will use it, get Gwynn only if you think she’ll be more fun than Jolder or some other void option down the line (they are both up close Void Impact, Jolder also having rapid fire for better Shinka coverage), which I’m assuming she isn’t for you… and don’t get more copies of Estela either, you’re f2p, there will be more equally or stronger character later, SAVE 😭

[winter moss]

definitely wouldnt commit to gwynn this late

without having any tiers already

[fiery cargo]

Yep don’t need Gwyn

She was very good at pushing content during release and she still is. But we have Estella now

[compact lily]

If you have her at T6 you might feel that way, but overall other characters are more suited for boss dps

[wary jungle]

i got T1 as a f2p and after getting T1 i can outdamage optimized tan-2’s and estelas

it’s generally not that hard especially if we’re talking about boss damage, i genuinely feel like tan-2 is better damage than estela, but maybe i havent found a properly built estela but a f2p gwynn can and will out damage a f2p estela even if both are at T1

this is including damage testing from me and my friends just to double check my work

[compact lily]

I doubt it lol

Are you talking about burst dmg or overall boss dmg?

Cause gwynn is burst type, the others are overall type

Estela damage comes from properly rotating her skills and setup. Like if you don't play her correctly you lose tons of dmg

That's why you might also see gwynn surpassing many estelas currently, cause most of the estelas players are not even rotating properly.
I would have done the same if it wasn't for Tan-2 that told me how to rotate for max dmg

@wary jungle if you have both estela and gwynn, you can test it out in practice range. I have them both and Gwynn is good for burst, bad for steady source of dmg

IMO gwynn can get close to Estela DPS if you don't consider talent trees is if you have a maxed out octant riot. I feel like that shotgun can get insane dmg

[wary jungle]

i did a DPS test of my gwynn and estela simulating the 20 second damage cycle we currently have on isakis and the numbers i got for gwynn were: 2.8 mill damage with 150k DPS. For estela i got 2.5 mill with 135k DPS. Both were limited to 20 seconds each and i’ll admit without T1 my gwynn would not be hitting those numbers

[compact lily]

Are Gwyn and estela maxed out?

[wary jungle]

unfortunately not, my gwynn only has 1 copy and i have no copies for estela

[compact lily]

No no, I meant with gear and upgrades

[wary jungle]

Not entirely, i’m missing two exotic mods for both characters and my gwynn has 2k power on estela so i am using my clanmates as a source for estela

[compact lily]

What's gwynn power?

[wary jungle]

64k

[compact lily]

Hmmm send me a friend req. We can check it out and see

I have a similar power Estela

Tbh you should test it out with Tan-2 instead of me cause I am still rusty, but it could work

[wary jungle]

aight PM an invite code or name i’ll add you real quick

[compact lily]

Luctor-II

[wary jungle]

all good i’m on controller so my rotations are sloppy

[compact lily]

Well, for gwynn is straightforward lol

[wary jungle]

fair lol

[compact lily]

Im online

[wary jungle]

says player not found

try adding SleepGod

[compact lily]

Nope lol.
Did you type my nickname with the letter i?

[wary jungle]

with ii and ll

[compact lily]

ii

[wary jungle]

i copied it and even changed it

[compact lily]

Weird lmao

Give UID

That should work

[wary jungle]

i’ll PM it

[haughty raven]

she's just objectively worse at boss damage than Estela and Tan

[wary jungle]

and you’re objectively wrong

[haughty raven]

that's not how objectivity works

she does less and slower boss damage than either Estela or Tan

she's great, as I've said above, she's the best character in solo content and she's extraordinary at add clear

that's why most teams planning to raid race are trying to include 2 T6 Gwynns

[wary jungle]

Cant raid race with copies dude

[haughty raven]

not the contest race, time push

goodness gracious gwynn glazers are something else

[wary jungle]

ahhhh my bad

gwynn is easier to use and f2p friendly

[haughty raven]

don't disagree

but she's still lower and slower boss damage

being easy to do acceptable boss damage =/= being best at boss damage

[wary jungle]

T1 gwynn is much better and easier accessible thats why i say she is as good if not better than estela

i can easily do a third with gwynn, currently one phasing as a trio

[haughty raven]

If we're only looking at T0 / T1, Tan still far outstrips Gwynn and I'm pretty sure a talented Estela would too

[wary jungle]

perhaps

fair enough

[haughty raven]

Don't get me wrong, your goth girl is absolutely incredible

by far best solo and add clear in the game currently

by far

and every character can do acceptable, even good boss damage. Even my meme queen Jolder can deal acceptable damage when you manage your uptime and sword energy properly

Netease wouldn't have a game for long if they made characters who were utter dogwater

[wary jungle]

she is insane but i swear estela isnt as good as people say

maybe T0 gwynn is worse than i remember but i feel like at best they’re tied

[haughty raven]

Estela's worse at neutral game, solo, at actually getting to the boss phase

she just happens to be great in the boss phase

I do think T0 Gwynn > T0 Estela

but in endgame you're usually not comparing T0s to T0s

most people playing for serious have a few talents at least

Self fulfilling prophecy - you play the character you have talents on, you focus the character you like and get more talents, you get them to be higher power, etc

Part of this is also that Gallows is an extraordinary gun

And unless you're going to take Kabr into the boss ( l m a o ) you're not Gallowsing without Estela

[loud cape]

"better (but only at t6 and only for boss dps)" is a really long and convoluted way of saying "worse"

[haughty raven]

The start of the conversation was "Am i the only one that thinks gwynn is the best boss damage?"

and also, I think Estela and Gwynn are competitive at boss damage at T0

Once you have any talents at all Estela is far above

don't need T6 to be better

Don't need Gwynn glazers pretending their goth girl is the best character at everything in the game, should be sentenced to ten thousand years of piercing shinkas only

[wary jungle]

piercing shinkas?? might as well give me the judas cradle </3

[loud cape]

gwynn can handle piercing shinkas better than estela lol you picked a bad sentence

hold on why do you say jolders t1 gives her unlimited ammo for a bit? it doesnt do that

[woven roost]

When jolder is in her super (the bubble) she doesn’t have to reload her smg and you can just hold down the trigger. Now I’m not sure if u need her 1st dupe for that to happen tho

[loud cape]

im aware of what her super does but it has nothing to do with her t1, op directly says the opposite though

[compact lily]

I used T1 estela and I was still better than a T1 gwynn

[compact lily]

Brother, I have even shared to you in DM the dps rotation and proved to you that Estela is better for dps

Why are you ignoring that? I wasn't even T6, I was T1 and that doesn't help estela in terms of dmg, and I proved to you I was able to hit 200k dps while you told me that gwynn T1 hit around 150k

[wary jungle]

brother this same thing happened on the exact same day you did it

[compact lily]

It was still after my video .-.

[wary jungle]

ah

well, yes you have a point there but my cope still makes me argue gwynn is better, and they started it

[compact lily]

Gwynn is an impact unit which has a better ad clear than Estela

Estela is more oriented for dmg boss and is slower to clear ads than Gwynn

Also gwynn is a burst dps type, which means she is better if you can or want to kill super fast shinkas, but boss dmg she is worse

Maybe she will be comparable to Estela when someone can test Octant riot fully upgraded

[wary jungle]

yea i think that’s eloquently put honestly and i need to stop arguing gwynn is a top tier boss DPS just because she gets high numbers but she is great for general stuff

[compact lily]

Estela is good for general too, she is simply worse for ad clear or for multiple elite enemies, while gwynn excels for those.
If Gwynn was supposed to be for single target, then her scythe skill wouldn't be AoE attack, but a radial type of attack.
If Estela was supposed to be for ad clear, then her super wouldn't shoot only a single unit

[wary jungle]

oh that is an excellent design point

[compact lily]

In the long term, both units will suck anyway, so currently it is just about playstyle

[wary jungle]

yea eventually these units will be powercrept especially since they’re damage focused units

[compact lily]

Indeed, while tan-2 since it is a perma unit you can get him to T6 and since his T6 straight up bypasses cooldowns, even if he won't be super good for dps, he can still be a pretty insane healer spammer

[compact lily]

Oh also main thing is that Gwynn since she is impact, she has a built-in optimal survivability setup, while estela does need T1 to survive more easily

I think I wouldn't have been able to clear the stage 30 without her T1

[wary jungle]

yea it sucks you need at lease 1 dupe for her